
At this point, it's a little hard to distinguish who is further from the truth about Iraq, the Bush Administration or the Iraq Study Group.
Matt Taibbi gives us some much-needed perspective about the long-awaited ISG Report:
The Baker-Hamilton report is being praised for its cautious, sensible, bipartisan approach to the Iraq problem (Time magazine even called it "genius") but actually all it is a tacit recognition of this pass-the-buck dynamic in Washington. Because there is currently no way to even think about ending the actual problem without someone in Washington having to eat a very big bucket of shit, both sides have agreed, in the spirit of so-called bipartisan cooperation, to avoid thinking about ending the problem in the immediate future. Instead, the official policy in the meantime, bet on it, will end up being some version of a three-pronged strategy that involves 1) staying the course or even increasing the amount of troops temporarily 2) seeing what happens in '08, and 3) revisiting the issue after we see who wins the White House two years from now.
Baker-Hamilton wasn't about finding solutions to the Iraq problem. It was about finding viable political solutions to the Iraq problem. Since there are none, it punted the problem to the next administration. Maybe the war will be real to those folks and they'll actually do something. Don't hold your breath.
But even given the cautious, change-nothing, inoffensive tone of the report, the President Who Chews With His Mouth Open is already trying to dig a trench around its recommendations. Why? Cos he's smarter than all those folks with their fancy degrees and jobs and accomplishments. Andy Card says so:
Andrew H. Card Jr., the president’s chief of staff until last spring, said that whatever Mr. Bush did in Iraq would probably fall short of many of the commission’s recommendations, and that he was likely to continue making decisions that he believed were right even if unpopular. Referring to Mr. Bush’s secret intelligence briefings, Mr. Card said, “The president by definition knows more than any of those people who are serving on these panels.”
Um, what did you just say?
“The president by definition knows more than any of those people who are serving on these panels.”
Oh, well, I feel better about it already, don't you?
Dude, the president, "by definition", has a head so pointed he can't even read a goddamn menu. Now, what part of "The Iraq War is an unmitigated cock-up of global proportions" do you not understand? The president "by definition" didn't know enough to keep us from getting into this mess. What on god's green earth makes you think he knows more about how to get us the fuck out than, well, anybody?
Not that it would be hard to best the ISG panel on their Middle East acumen. Back to Taibbi:
And so, when faced with an unsolvable or seemingly unsolvable political conundrum, most politicians feel there's only one thing to do. You appear onstage with your rival party's leader, embrace him, announce that you're going to find a "bipartisan" solution together, and then nominate a panel of rotting political corpses who will spend 18 months, a few dozen million dollars, many thousands of taxpayer-funded air miles, and about 130,000 pages of impossibly verbose text finding a way for both parties to successfully take the fork in the road and blow off the entire issue, whatever it was.
"Rotting political corpses" indeed. But hey, that description sounds just like the 9/11 Report. And the Katrina Aftermath Report. And, and…
But really, the Baker-Hamilton circle-jerk does absolutely nothing to address the reality on the ground in Iraq, which has spiralled so wildly out of control that most of us can't even conceive of the chaos and brutality.
Here are some statements by journalists about the conditions in Iraq as compiled by the Columbia Journalism Review, which I found via Friday's Romenesko:
Christopher Allbritton
Freelance writerI hope I contributed to the world’s understanding of what’s happening in Iraq. I would like to avoid going back to Iraq. I’m not personally interested in the story anymore. Burned out. With too few breaks. Most of the world is waiting for this train wreck to run its course. Anyone can see it’s going from bad to worse to truly terrible.
Dexter Filkins
The New York TimesWhen you’re a target, it’s different — it’s weird, you know? It’s really strange. Any number of times I’ve been in a car driving down the road, and suddenly a car will come after me, and you don’t want to hang around and figure out why they’re trying to run you off the road or cut you off. And I’ve been chased, cut off, guys with guns, the whole thing. It so suddenly kind of turns on you. You will not unwind while you’re there in Iraq. You just can’t. You’re just kind of cranked up for however long you’re there. You’re just kind of wound up. The last time I was there I did seventeen weeks, so I stayed out for a long time, but — so it’s usually a couple of months and you’re pretty fried. But it’s mostly the isolation. It’s just very, very isolated. There’s nothing much else to do except work. You’re in this house, cooped up a lot of time. You’re working all the time. You really have to work a lot because everything moves so slowly that if you do sixteen hours, it’s like you moved this gigantic wheel one little click. So the next day you work another sixteen hours and the wheel moves another click. It’s all so slow now and truncated that it just takes more and more labor to get the smallest thing done.
Farnaz Fassihi
The Wall Street JournalWhen I left Iraq for the first time — you know, the tensions in Iraq are so extreme. We were constantly, twenty-four hours a day, on a state of high alert, survival mode. That situation, constantly under tension, you don’t really sleep well. You don’t know what’s going to happen the next moment. In addition to feeling that for yourself, you’re also worried about your colleagues. I was very worried about the Iraqi staff. Being responsible for security of the Iraqi staff. And all the bad things, the terrible things you cover. All the horror, all the misery of the Iraqis.
Every time I left Iraq, I would just stay in a hotel in Amman for two days doing nothing. I couldn’t immediately jump on a plane home. For me, anxiety would come in the most unusual places. Like suddenly in a commercial flight. Or for a really long time, I couldn’t sit by the window in New York. Or anywhere. When I’d walk into a restaurant I’d constantly choose the furthest seat from the window. Because I always associated windows with smashing. I’d seen it happen several times where a car bomb had gone off and smashed the windows. So you avoid sitting by the window.
We talk to each other. Journalists talk to each other about these kind of things. That’s one thing . . . .
But hey, you know, the Beltway crowd has never met a problem too urgent to kick down the road for someone else to handle, have they? So, thousands of people on both sides may die horribly before anything actually changes or any real action is taken. Who cares? Our government has elaborate political cover to erect, and fast! It must be absolutely positively assured that no one's careers will get set ablaze, nobody's going to make any sudden moves, and no real blame will get assigned for what has truly mushroomed into our greatest national disgrace.
I for one feel that my tax dollars couldn't be better spent. How about you?
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TRex! : )
atd-congrats on the zero
…and Heya there Mr. TRex.
Yes, Matt Taibbi summed it up quite well…
The more I see of the ISG Report, the less I like about it.
RBG @ 2
Thank you. ; )
I also have some much-needed perspective:
And for a special Holiday Treat…
I feel better already.
Jane Hamsher @ 6
Me too. So safe and secure and happy that I could just vomit.
I guess, in a Clintonian fashion, I need to know what the definition of “definition” is.
johnSwifty @ 8
Dontcha know it’s how ya define something, silly? hehe ; )
I’m still puzzling on how all those 70,000 troops who will not be removed from Iraq when we withdraw (sic) and who do not speak Arabic (as well as do not like Iraqi’s as documented all so frighteningly well by Mr. Taibbi and noted by angie) are going to be such a great success in training the Iraqis
but then I’m not a DC expert so what do I know?
Mark @ News Corpse @ 5
And it was quite a treat! : )
Because there can never be enough Mr Fish.
I like the 11/15/06 (from drop down menu)
Hi everyone. I’m depressed. I was at a christmas party with a bunch of smart, college educated women tonight. I was the only democrat.
They are completely convinced that if we don’t fight them over there and finish them off, we will be fighting them in the streets of Fargo.
Oh, and get this. Their kids sent every serviceman from ND a box of cookies signed– the n.d. young conservatives. They are always getting their BRAND out there.
I hope it reminds those service people just who put them there. Hope it backfires.
atdnext @
9
Yeah? So the definition of President must have been changed to, “Now knows more than anyone else, by virtue of holding the office.”
Where’s scarecrow when you need him? He ought to be able to tell us what it’s like to suddenly have a brain, where previously there was none.
while the media kept calling the ISG report “grim and dire”, I thought it was quite optimistic…
I’m afraid the future for Iraq is just so awful we can’t even imagine.
For me, the one silver lining of the ISG Report (Summary: Now that we’ve bombed the living shit out of their country, the Iraqis need to start taking responsibility for it.) is that it sets a pull-out date for early 2008. Before Bush leaves office. They’re pretty much telling Bush, “It’s your mess, and you have to clean it up.” Their specific recommendations are moot, because they know that Bush isn’t going to follow them. The deadline is what’s key. And yes, there’s some sort of clause about unless-something-unexpected-happens, but the only thing I can think of that’s truly unexpected in Iraq right now would be a nuclear explosion. The ISG Report has ensured that the blame for Iraq will be placed firmly on Bush’s shoulders and not, as Bush likes to say, on “future Presidents”. For that, at least, I’m quite thankful.
ReneND @ 13
Sounds like a bunch of Spuds. I wouldn’t take too much away from it, just get a few cheesy facts from FDL and make au gratin at the next dinner party.
johnSwifty @ 14
Siun @ 10
Yeah, you just keep quiet, you reality-based person, you.
The Washington Post and David Brooks have gotten on the 30 year Middle East war bandwagon. We’ll be back for Gulf War III. Basically, America can’t let Muslims, let alone the Russians or Chinese, control Middle East oil. Besides, oil money will buy nuclear weapons for terrorists.
If there was no oil, the US would care about Iraq or Israel about as much as it cares about Liberia. There is a plausible argument that controlling oil resources is in the national interest. But if that is the case, start the draft and tax the wealthy to pay for the war. If not, withdraw and rely on Mutually Assured Destruction [MAD] and convert to alternate energy sources. Wrenching to America’s economy but less bloody and morally better than the Recolonialization of the Middle East.
johnSwifty @ 14
Hmmmm…
Are you sure the definition hasn’t been changed to “The Decider who decides on all those thing-a-muh-jigs that must be decided on”? ; )
EvilDrPuma @ 19
You learn ‘em by doin’.
People know that there is no good solution to Iraq and I don’t think anyone was really expecting ISG to come up with a magic pony plan. Whatever use it did have was to put an imprimatur on the idea that Iraq is a failure — and that is what is sinking in with the public. An analogy would be the Duelfer report which (after many months) said hey! there’s no WMD in Iraq. Right after that you got a drop in Bush’s approval with the demo who expected discovery of a magical appearance of a Bond-villain-esque nerve gas laboratory jumping ship. Now we got cuckoo-bananas down to 30%, and I expect lower once it really sinks in that he prefers to dither rather than act on the tepid recommendations of the ISG. Soon, the End is Nigh crowd (along with those nasty, nasty residents of Cumberland, MD) will be his last bastion of support.
In a heartbeat, I’d trade the lives saved (of American soldiers) by a prompt withdrawal for a “rehabilitation” of Bush’ popularity. But it’s not in my power to make that trade. He thinks he’s going to be vindicated by history and doesn’t give a damn about what anyone thinks in the here and now.
Evil Doc … I’ll be quiet now, really I will
ReneND @
13
Which is why investigations are important–they’re gonna make that brand synonymous with shit on toast.
Yeah, you’re right TRex. These screwheads think only in terms of power and position. The lives and deaths and mortal wounds of our men and woman, let alone dark swarthy non-Chirstians, just don’t mean shit to these high-and-mighty people.
Find a way to push it off. Find a way to make it end—eventually—with minimum political damage. Find a way to tell clusterfuck that he’s lost in the weeds and insane to boot without actually saying anything, um, confrontational.
Jonathan Chait in today’s LA Times, (probably quoted way too extensively for fair use, sorry Jonathan)
We are living in dark times, indeed.
atdnext @ 21
Wull, ya got a point. The old Chinese proverb goes, “He who defines the terms, wins the argument.” If the deciderer decides what’s worth decidin’ then that’s kinda the whole shootin match. And that’s sure to make Dick Cheney happy in more ways than one.
Knows more “by definition”. Heh
I keep seeing, in my mind, a sulky pre-teen. Sitting in a vast library of exotic and secret volumes, picking his nose while eating pretzels in front of the TV. Flipping channels, muttering, “nothing good on”.
Siun @ 24
I sure as hell hope not. There’s always a need for true and legitimate passion. The revolution wouldn’t have happened without the Patrick Henrys of the spectrum. Don’t go changin’…!
uncle toby @ 23
He’s going to grind it out. There are still a fair number of conservatives out there who believe that we would have won in Viet Nam had we only stayed the course. I believe that we’d have been better off to buy them tractors. Same for Iraq – maybe not tractors, but something. Would have been a LOT cheaper and wins hearts and minds.
I think we should convene a bi-partisan panel to look into the Baker-Hamilton recommendations to see if they can be applied.
Once that panel is done, there should be another panel to investigate what the post Baker-Hamilton panel discovered.
-GSD
atdnext @
11
Thanks. I try.
Cookies are cookies. Nobody in a war zone gives a rat’s ass who they come from. It’s typical that these ‘conservatives’ would try to ‘brand’ their good deed, as if that action means something to someone with their ass on the line and a live round in the chamber.
This week Pantload Goldberg had an absolutely insulting column in the Times and I seethed all day. I shouldn’t get so upset. But this joker thinks his opinion counts, that somehow he can use the phrase “win the war”, as in
All I could think about all morning while getting my treatment is why the fuck doesn’t Pantload get his fat ass down to the recruiter and into boot camp (that’ll trim him down) and on a c-141 to “win the war”.
I mean, really. I joined in 1970. A hell of a lot of my peers took their shot at being patriotic and brave and most of them believed when they joined. They were going over there for a cause.
Jeez, and all this time I thought blowing up villages and raping and killing won hearts and minds.
they love us in Vietnam, right?
This is, unfortunately, far too true. I speak with people who speak with people over there and, even twice removed, the weight and magnitude of the circumstance comes through like an echo of thunder over the horizon. There’s a big ass storm going on but all I can do is smell the ozone in the air and hope for the folks who are getting wet. God bless them.
GSD @ 31
Yay! More waste of taxpayers’ money. ; )
GSD @ 31
Ah, yes, “There was an old lady who swallowed a fly” as a theory of governance.
GSD @ 31
In the immortal words of Henry of M*A*S*H, “uh, okay, that’s a good idea–you organize that.” :)
Oh ReneND. You poor thing. You need a new circle of friends, but I’m betting it’s hard to find many progressives in a group in your neck of the woods (ND).
So here’s some ammo for you.
1) Don’t label those women “smart” — they aren’t, if they obviously don’t READ anything about the Middle East besides neo-conservative propaganda. Cut yourself some slack on this, you are MUCH smarter than they are, they don’t deserve to be on your playing field. (I won’t even begin to go into the “college-educated” track; we already have examples of what a fine Yale education can do for a person…)
2) Make them WORK for it. You don’t have to be confrontational, just use their egos to do the heavy lifting. Ask them if they’ve been reading the Review of Books regularly (intone this as if all smart, college-educated women do read this regularly), and if they caught this piece, War within War; then ask how what they think about the Shi’a-Sunni schism, and how it will impact Hezbollah’s actions, or Hamas’, and if this could have any impact on the U.S, in terms of foreign policy, national debt, or the threat of violence outside of Iraq and closer to home. You don’t have to add anything more at this point; if they say they haven’t read it, offer the link and leave it at that.
3) If you ask more questions than answer, they may not come around, but they may eventually STFU.
Hang in there, ReneND. It’s a tough slog, but the cosmos obviously believes you are up to the challenge.
atdnext @ 36
oooh, oooh!
can we investigate that, too?
The USS Ponder sets forth with “all deliberate speed”…
(so wish Tom Toles would draw something like this…)
G’night all. Off to read to my sweet daughter.
GSD @ 31
GSD, than gods there are level heads like you around. We should be able to string this out at least two years, maybe 6 if Jeb decides to run.
hackworth @ 30
I’m sure there is support out there, especially by those who want to refight Vietnam. But from a political standpoint, this dithering Bush has been doing for the past few months is mind-bogglingly stupid. If he were to escalate the conflict (setting aside for now the point that adding more troops is only possible in alternate universes) that could be a net gain for him politically. I guess I’ve been watching someone whose every policy decision since being elected has been choreographed for its political impact. Now that the mid-terms are over, I guess he has completely changed gears and is now solely worried about burnishing his “legacy” (by means of whatever cockamanie, drug-addled, Messianic-deluded, notions pop into his mind).
‘Niters, marksb, hope things are well and improving for you and yours.
Just dropped in to catch up for a sec, have to hit the hay since I’m on a deadline bright and early in the morning.
Stay safe and give ‘em hell, FirePups!
marksb @ 41
g’nite markb – hope you are feeling as well as possible!
apologies that my 34 came out right after your post – no reference to you (or any other of the other vets here) intended…
all reference to the “politicos”, “leaders”, and “strategists” intended.
Rayne @ 44
‘night Rayne, ‘night marksb.
HotFlash!
I just clicked on your blog for the first time and saw your lovely Thanksgiving note – merci!
and then your holiday gift list – I had never heard of Kiva – now that is soooo cool! I’ll be buying gift cards from there this year! so double merci!
No good options.
I remember that photo. The one taken on that bright, awful morning. The man caught in mid plummet, almost casual, no flailing arms, no pedaling feet. Out for a stroll.
No good options.
He knew that to stay was not an option. Like our folks in Iraq. The place is on fire. He knew he had to leave. He knew that leaving was another bad option. He knew that staying was worse.
No good options.
We are lucky, in a sense. We can leave Iraq. Leaving will not destroy us as a nation. It might save us. Like that unknown soul, we have a choice. If he had waited, the collapse would have taken that choice from him. If we wait, the same may befall us.
Rayne @ 39
Sigh, Thanks Rayne. The hardest part is they are 30 year friends. Hard to toss to the curb, but I am thinking about it. I end up coming home from these things discouraged. Even though we won the election, I don’t believe many Republican minds were changed.
marksb @ 41
Good night, marksb. : )
Rayne @ 44
‘Nite Rayne – goodluck with the deadline!
What struck my mind while reading this:
was that it flatly puts it out there that Rummy and Cheney were the ones running things. They must be totally pissed at State and Condi for going behind their backs to little georgie.
jeffreyw @ 48
jeffreyw, amen.
kirk murphy @ 40
YES! Let’s waste even more taxpayers’ money by convening a commission on the waste of taxpayers’ money! Wouldn’t that be precious?
ReneND @ 49
Out of idle and somewhat perverse curiosity, how many of these Republican friends have some sort of personal stake in the prosecution of the war? How many are merely passing on the conventional wisdom of their small group?
uncle toby @ 43
This is the second time today I’ve seen reference so some gnostic group (free masons) in conjunction with the Bush family. Earlier someone commented that Barbara Bush could do some Crowley majik, or some such thing.
I’m always interested in the more outlandish aspects of the administration’s detractors. The farther past the point of perceived reality one travels, the closer one might actually be to realizing that truth is stranger than fiction. I wonder what sorts of strange voodoo old Prescott Bush was into. Did he go down to the CrossRoads to buy a family legacy?
ReneND @ 49
Hey ReneND, what do your friends say about the election? How do they rationalize that?
johnSwifty @ 56
Actually, I think Prescott just drank to excess….
montag @ 58
So would you, if you had two last names.
These commissions will of course be “cost-plus”.
Ahem.
-GSD
montag @ 58
Ahh, the old Pact of the Pink Elephant trick. Ol’ Scratch is a crafty one.
johnSwifty @ 61
Prescott being, presumably, dead and gone, I’m more worried about what deals the current Bush has made… and with whom….
montag @ 55
I’m guessing it is more of a tax thing. Banking and high level insurance. But just a couple of those. The rest? Families have always been. Just that simple. Kool Aid Kidz.
montag @ 62
Let’s not sell Prescott out yet. Maybe he sold the souls of all his descendants to the devil. You know, like reverse Mormonism.
Suzanne @ 52
I don’t think anyone will be surprised if historians uncover Cheney’s involvement as true puppetmaster to be close to the truth.
Thank god Bush has a thing for intelligent woman who fawn over him. In his case, the little head is more intelligent than the big head.
montag @ 62
What do you say to the House of Saud/Bush involvement?
Hi atdnext -
I wasn’t clear, I’m sorry.
I’m all for public oversight investigations – especially fraud in the war industry. (and the “health industry”).
I’m not for the pundtitocracy/Beltway game of talking about the ISG Report instead of talking about Iraq.
I’m waiting for Sally Quinn to interview the designer of the ISG’s logo, and ask their opinion on the bloodbath…..
ReneND @ 63
Ah, well, what can one then say to them, but, “hey, enjoy that shit on toast.” :)
johnSwifty @ 57
I’m sure they will redouble their efforts because Bill Clinton has a p*nis. They hate him.
EvilDrPuma @ 64
Is that where Mitt Romney doesn’t know which mother’s womb to crawl back into?
ReneND @ 63
Well, that’s sad. Rayne was right, they are not smart; just well trained. You’ll have to hold your tongue to keep your friendships or engage in a concerted effort to educate them. I think Rayne laid out a good plan to use their egos against them, but it sounds like a daunting prospect.
ReneND, it’s hard, I know, have shown the curb to friends of decades as well, and many of them during the Dubya years.
It’s a fundamental question of values. I can thank Dubya for this one thing, that he affords me the opportunity to re-think the nature of friendship.
Friends are people with whom I share fundamental values; my values require me to think deeply, share enormously, stand in the gap for those who cannot do for themselves, strive for the common good. I will sacrifice much for friends with those values. We may not entirely agree on issues, but we agree on values.
Friends are not necessarily people with whom by dint of fate alone I found myself connected — like classmates. I’ve had to coach my school-aged kids about this point: friends may be classmates, but classmates may not be friends. Ditto to workmates, team members, etc.
Here’s an example of a “friend” I kicked to the curb: he’s worked with my spouse for 20-plus years, been through a remarriage, kids, divorce, remarriage and now his eldest joining the Marines. When my stepson was in Iraq in 2003, he actually told my spouse that “we ought to blow the whole place to glass” — as if that made my spouse feel any less anxious about his son’s welfare. Now that this “friend’s” son enlisted this summer, he’s suddenly worried about the situation in Iraq, wants regular assurance from us.
I’m just not big enough, after listening to this guy’s ranting for the last 6 years about the evils of progressivism and liberalism, making racist jokes about persons of Middle Eastern descent, becoming more and more xtian fundie like his 3rd wife as time has gone one.
So he’s met the curb; he’s been replaced by good, kind and generous people who would bend over backwards for others, the kind of people who sacrificed many hours of their lives during the election season and helped people to vote. It’s funny, but giving up this one person made room for more than a dozen new people in my life.
I wish you the same luck, ReneND. Hang in there. And now really, off to bed (I came back to check on you).
I think the reference is the this unprovable but highly appealing rumour that W’s mom is Alistair Crowley’s love-child. If I may use the term loosely.
GSD @ 60
One tool in the right winger tool kit is big gubmint wasting money. These guys took the money from old people, sick people, veterans and kids and gave all the money to haliburton, bechtel, dyncorp, etc. And they gave til it has nearly wrecked the economy. The point that has been lost to right wing noise, is that the gubmint is always going to waste money - on something or somebody. With democrats, at least the people benefit a little from it.
Thought for the night: George W Bush is to politics as Paris Hilton is to entertainment. Both are rich kids who leave nothing but destruction in their wake, and neither one of them ever has to pay the price for the damage that they cause.
kirk murphy @ 67
Oh, I agree! I want real investigations and real oversight…
But after taking a serious look at the ISG Report, all I have to say is:
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN
They’ve been weighed, and found wanting…
Hopefully, the Dems will do a better job investigating next year…
I just don’t like it when our tax dollars are wasted on DC Kewl Kidz Cover-your-ass Extravaganzas. : )
johnSwifty @ 65
How convenient – it’s the one he knows how to operate.
Frank Probst @ 75
The big difference, of course, is that Dubya wolfing down a Hardee’s burger in a slinky black swimsuit would cause mass suicide.
kirk murphy @ 77
I wouldn’t be quite so sure of that, given Bush’s pathology…. :)
Frank Probst @ 75
Brittany Spears had to pay the price for hangin’ out with Paris. With friends like Paris, who needs enemies? Same goes for Dubya and the Merkin People.
montag @ 79
ROTFLMAO
Insight!
kirk murphy @ 81
Nah, just remembering John Hersey’s The War Lover….
What was Chain Dickey’s mission two weeks ago in Saudi Arabia?
The trip dropped right through the media like a stone
snoboysdrift @ 83
Scuttlebutt has it that he was ordered to appear before the Saudi royalty to do something quick before the fighting in Iraq spilled over into their silica and oil bailiwick….
snoboysdrift @ 83
Heard that Greg Palast says it was to get chewed out by the house of Saud.
snoboysdrift @ 83
He was getting the word from the Saudis about how to conduct the next stage of ethnic cleansing. Orders for where to have the Shia militias the US is arming flare up their efforts. Dividing Baghdad into sectors for the rival militias to control.
Saudis are arming the Sunni militias, theyre all buying weapons from Ghorbanifar via Romania and Eastern Europe with Chalabi as pointman for the Iranians and their supply effort to the SCIRI/Badr Corps militia. US SpecForCommand arming the Mahdi Army/Interior-Iraqi Police militia.
Time Mag via the LA Times’s Jonathon Chait:
“As the trio departed, a Rice aide asked one of her suitors not to inform anyone at the Pentagon that chairmen had been chosen and the study group was moving forward. If Rumsfeld was alerted to the study group’s potential impact, the aide said, he would quickly tell Cheney, who could, with a few words, scuttle the whole thing. Rice got through to Bush the next day, arguing that the thing was going to happen anyway, so he might as well get on board. To his credit, the President agreed.
JEEZ!
USAF claims of Gulf War I Iraqi and Civilian deaths – 250,000 or more
UN claims of additional Iraqi civilian mortalty from combination of sanctions and unrepaired infrastructure from Gulf War I during the period 1992-2000 – 500,00 or more
Most credible claims of Iraqi dead from Gulf War II – 600,000 or more
Iraqis injured from Gulf War I, sanctions period and Gulf War II – over a million
Current number of Iraqi Gulf War II refugees – 1.5 million
Almost 6 million Iraqi casualties of one sort or another in fifteen years.
Death toll score:
Bush I – 250,000 or more
Clinton – 500, 000 or more
Bush II – 600,000 or more
Next president – ?
pretty bipartisan, huh…..?
HOW COULD THEY POSSIBLY NOT HATE US?
Ed*ard Teller @ 87
And, given that it’s a culture that equates revenge with honor, what does that say about the future? *sigh*
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 86
Saudis are none too happy about the Shiite majority being propped up by the USA and slaughtering Sunnis.
But, as to your point, this is not news worthy. Merkins are typically unfamiliar with any shia/sunni dynamic and that’s the way the Right Wing MSM intends to keep it. Besides, the story would make Unka Dick look bad.
Edward Teller …
precisely
and each day more and more …
but let’s not mention those unpleasant facts when we can have a cool new study and wise men and all …
The new U.S. embassy in Iraq (roughly the size of Vatican City) and the 14 new U.S. military bases were not mentioned even once in the ISG. I swear, I read the whole damn thing. Not even a passing comment. Let’s face it…we aren’t going anywhere until GW is out of the WH.
It’s all cover for the oil grab based on my reading. Privitization of Iraq’s oil reserves is actually in the document (albeit in coded language).
Poor edit on my part. We’ve created something like 4 milion Iraqi casualties in fifteen years, not six million.
Siun @ 90
Has anybody asked what criteria were applied to the decision to describe these people as “wise?”
Ed*ard Teller @ 92
I can understand why the number “6 million” was floating through your head.
Hackworth … our wonderful new D chair of intelligence (sic) Reyes is not familiar with shia or sunni either so there’s no real need for us to worry our pretty little heads about these details.
montag @ 88
Thank you, President Bush, for further destabilizing the Middle East.
Thank you, President Bush, for giving al-Qaeda more material for their recruitment videos.
Thank you, President Bush, for showing the Muslim world that you don’t give a damn what they think.
Thank you, President Bush. Your “strategery” is quite disgusting.
Ed*ard Teller @ 87
Very astute. Not many folks take the time to add in all the damage the US has caused since 1990. People think the hatred of Americans is a recent thing related to the most recent invasion.
All through the 90s we kept the No Fly Zones up and the sanctions on and the death toll continued to mount with nary a word in our media. We even launched a number of cruise missiles on Saddam during the Clinton years, hardly a mention.
The Iraqi people are not dumb. They have been suffering at the hands of Americans for nearly 25 years if you include our back door support for the Iranians during Iran-Contra which took place during the Iran-Iraq War. Their memories are long.
This is generational hatred at this point. The younger Iraqi generation were taught in their classrooms to hate us. We thought they’d break out the candy and flowers when we showed up? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
montag @ 88
How indeed? Hell, I hate us!
Evil Doc – I think Taibbi’s shriveled corpses points clearly to the credentials requested for wise men studies.
hits it right on the head
the baker group’s soul purpose was to create a dialogue that allows for nothing to be done untill the next presidency is decided
atdnext @ 96
He didn’t give a damn what we think, either. Maybe we can make that into common ground in future negotiations, he said bitterly yet not entirely ironically.
HotFlash @ 98
I don’t hate Americans but I can’t say the same about the government Americans chose to elect in recent years. They did manage to get it right this year for once. Let’s work together to make sure they keep that up in 2008.
just noting that if I were Iraqi I would want revenge and my memory of Madeleine Albright saying the cost (500,000 dead children) was worth it would never fade
I get really tired of the suggestions that somehow muslim culture is sooo different
grief at the death of our children and hatred of colonial masters looks mightly universal to me
Siun @ 99
Right. Got it. Desiccated husks kept alive by the force of their own malevolent will equals wise men.
perris @
100
Except, by 2008, the media will have blamed the Dem Congress for the whole nine yards.
EvilDrPuma @ 93
Siun @ 103
They don’t place the same value on human life that we don’t.
EvilDrPuma @
94
I missed that. But during the 1954 Department of Defense FY55 Congressional budget hearings, the USAF brass actually
braggedargued in front of Congress that they had killed a higher percentage of the North Korean population in the Korean War than the Nazis had killed of the Soviet population during WWII. The USAF was using their figures – siince disappeared – in order to keep nukes in their hands and out of the hands of the Army and Navy.Siun @ 103
It is different–that’s part of why we’re in a mess there–we didn’t understand it.
The difference between this society and the Arab world is that, in this one, you may harbor feelings of revenge upon which you do not act, because you might be culpable for those actions. In Iraq, though, you may be culpable in the eyes of your family and your tribe if you do not act.
That’s why there’s so much tit-fot-tat violence going on now. It’s yet one more thing the Bushies did not know, and, therefore, could not anticipate….
Ed*ard Teller @ 105
Yes they will. And the dems will hang their heads and accept the blame. Everyone needs to call it what it is now – Bush’s War.
EvilDrPuma @ 101
Good point, Dr.
Bush doesn’t give a damn about the Iraqi blood that he has shed, and he definitely doesn’t give a damn about the American blood that he is spilling there. Gawd, this asshole makes me want to scream!
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 102
Hope this doesn’t zig out of control. OK, when Christ got offed I couldn’t do anything about it, I wasn’t here. When the native Americans were ‘pushed back’ (euphemism for genocide) I wasn’t here. I helped a little with civil rights, but I was kinda young. And then there is *now*. How can I as an American look myself or any other human being in the eye ever again if I don’t do my damnest to stop my country from killing more people in Iraq? One more dead person is too many.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 97
It’s not only the middle east, but south and Latin America also. As well as SE Asia, the Philippines ect. All the feel good propaganda we get domestically about our high ideals and worthy goal notwithstanding, our foreign policy brings death and destruction upon innocents everywhere. When liberals see this and call bullshit, we become blame America firsters.
EvilDrPuma @
37
LOL.
Didn’t she, well, die in the end?
Margot @ 114
Of course.
Hi Fini, Helpless, Margot.
Must be late, the nighttowls are here. And that’s my cue to shuffle off to bed. Night, guys. Now, where are my teddy bear and candlestick?
g’nite Hotflash!
and thanks again for the links to Kiva and the wonderful afghani soap on your site! brilliant!
HotFlash @ 112
You and Siun show similar passion and no one (no one here, at least) would argue with the need to act. I passed out some flyers for a local race here this last election…big whoop! What else ya got? I told Siun I’d march. You want to march? Where you want to start? Where you want to end? How much noise you want to make? Would anyone listen?
It’s defeating to think about being ineffective, so I try not too. But what should I do instead. I’ve sent letters. I write email. FDL helps, helps get me pissed off, but at least I feel like I understand more. At least I know the philosophical differences between Shi’a and Sunni.
I once tried to compile the number of people our military, paramilitary and directly-supported surrogates have killed or injured since VJ Day. I retched more than once.
For instance, every day in the Mekong watershed, scores of kids are born with birth defects from the Agent Orange still in the water table. Every day. And this coming week, some Lebanese kid is going to get his or her arms blown off by an American made cluster bomblet dropped for us by “our closest ally in the Middle East.”
I gave up at about 30 million.
If your goal is to halt the killing of Americans in Iraq, the solution is clear-we need to get out of Iraq. But let’s not pretend that that will stop the killing of Iraqis. Iraq is in a bloody ethnic/religious/tribal civil war and the killing will stop only when someone wins the war (and victory will be achieved through a lot more killing) or Iraq breaks apart, or Iraq becomes the focus of a regional Sunni/Shia conflict that increases the bloodshed over a broader area. Regardless, at this point our presence or absence is nearly irrelevant-except to the Americans killed or crippled there.
Kudos to Mrs Pelosi again:In New Congress,
Seniority Takes Back Seat to Spirit
Young Democrats Reap Benefits of Work
http://tinyurl.com/ybelub
tdraicer @ 120
Sounds so terrible, but rings so true…
Our presence there is only making the situation worse, so we really have no option but to leave. : (
I do understand the urge to blame America first, after all of the talk about taking responsibility for one’s own actions, our government should take responsibility for the bullshit committed in the name of the American people. However, there is a huge difference between blaming America first and blaming Americans first.
Americans generally do not have day to day control of the crap pulled in our names except to throw the bums out every couple of years when they DO pull some shit. Blame America first? Hell yeah, if America is the embodiment of its government and not the American People.
times like this call for watertiger’s head-smashing-on-keyboard icon
Please remember that Iraq was a secular country. Iraq was a country where Sunni and Shia lived side by side, married each other, lived together. Iraq was a society were women had rights and jobs and did not wear the veil.
punaise @ 124
There should be like squiggly lines coming off the front of the head to indicate the head striking the keys.
johnSwifty @ 118
I know, it’s a bitch. But as LindaR says, these Internets are our streets, and we are taking to them. I don’t think marching will help right now, maybe later. Right now the media won’t notice, and W sure as hell won’t. But there is progress. The B-H report at least made it possible to say ‘lose’ in DC. And that makes a difference.
I see the reporters already getting uppitier, that’s good. So investigate the hell out of him and the rest of the bunch because he will veto anything the Dem congress does. And don’t ever say impeachment is ‘off the table’. Delay is gone, Rove is waning, and there must be 16 R’s who want to get re elected. I have two D senators, so I know which way they should go, and my rep is R. Either way, three phone calls a day. 5 min.
BTW, the march was today.
Siun @ 125
The secular folks have fled or died. All that is left are the fundies. Imagine if we had a new civil war here. After a year or two Mexico and Canada would be full of people like you and I and the Pat Robertson militias would be duking it out with the Anarchists and inner city gangs united with prison gangs. I’m heading for Ireland when the fit hits the shan here.
pun, that is one of my favorite icons :)
Siun @ 125
Doesn’t sound too bad. If they didn’t happen to be sitting on the world’s second largest oil reserves, they probably would have taken care of that nasty little Sadam problem all by themselves.
This new bit of truthiness actually originated in Bush’s interview (Fox, I think) where he said he doesn’t get advice from his father when he talks to him, because, y’know, he gets all this intelligence and stuff, so he “knows” more than his father about it.
It’s the classic confusion between information and knowledge (confusion on the part of the journalist, that is, deliberately induced by the administration.) The president, “by definition” has access to a lot more information than any private citizen, but knowing more requires actually taking an interest in that information, having the background to make sense of it, and avoiding engaging in wishful thinking and cherrypicking to support your predermined conclusions, which ain’t exactly Junior’s forte.
For what the president “by definition” knows, I think I trust Molly Ivins: “George W. Bush is not stupid; however, he is wilfully ignorant and proud of it.”
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 123
Part(or most) of the problem is that a lot of people cannot seem to distinguish between our country and our government. Personally, I truly love my country, but I hate the government in its current form. More properly, I hate the government in it’s current debased form.
tdraicer @ 120
We fucked this up big time. If they do end up being a democracy I figure there will have to be 30 years of religious rule, then 20 of secular strongmen before that can happen. And democracy may not be the route they go. But Iraqi self-determination cannot begin until we leave.
HotFlash @ 127
I know, but I agree with your assessment that it probably isn’t going to accomplish much at this time. Still, presented with truly passionate people, I feel the urge to take to the streets. It isn’t a bad urge. I think I’ll foster it and let it build and, one day, I’ll act upon it. When that day comes, it gives me comfort to know I’ll probably not be alone. That day is coming, it’s coming soon.
Good night friends.
Peace. Out here.
>Please remember that Iraq was a secular country. Iraq was a country where Sunni and Shia lived side by side, married each other, lived together. Iraq was a society were women had rights and jobs and did not wear the veil.
Yes, held together by a very brutal dictatorship in which Sunnis were clearly favored over Shia (and in which the Kurds were essentially their own nation under US air protection). We are responsible in that we removed the dictator without good cause and with no plan for what would come after other than wishful thinking. But Iraq collapsed into violence because the hatreds and distrust were already there, held in check by Saddam’s armed forces and secret police. We removed Saddam’s (brutal) restraints-we didn’t create what was being restrained.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 128
Interesting you should mention Ireland. Not too long ago Catholics and Protestants were shooting and knee capping and blowing one another up there. Not that it couldn’t start up again. I never thought that it was a religious thing, just some way of dividing people into us and them for purposes of extermination — it’s hardwired somewhere in our bitty brains and pops up if there are not strong civil institutions.
Fini … I think you are very wrong and I am not so comfortable with the “people like you and me” v. anarchists description. just sayin’
I’d highly recommend that you and johnSwifty read Robert Fisk’s Great War of Civilization and track some of the Iraqi news coverage that’s being translated into English over at MFIs site (link under my name)
HotFlash- I responded to your comment on my blog.
Thanks for dropping by. : )
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 128
One of the problems with Americans seems to be a lack of empathy. With the exception of the 1-2 percent of our population who serve in the armed forces, no one really has any idea what it is like to be in a war torn land. It simply has been too long since most of us know what it is like to have ” soldiers come by and tore up the tracks again”.
heading to bed …
Helpless Dancer – your comment on a lack of empathy is important – thank you for finding the words.
Redshift @ 131
I remember a few months back a report that presidents may continue receiving daily briefings after they leave office. Bush Sr. is the only retired president who continues receiving them.
I Can’t find it on teh google but this wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
Jr. may not get advice from Sr. but they both read the same info.
I have a sick and nagging feeling that I have written about before…
we, at the very least, helped mightily to incite this civil war.
I think it is a big mistake to blame “sectarian” violence for this bloodbath. It’s not nearly that simple!
Which militias, whose death squads, who trained them, who sits and watches to see the “game” played out?
And the people just try to protect their families and their country– however they can.
Fini @ 128– I beg to disagree. The displacement of people always starts with those that have the means. The ones left behind are those that have no option but to stay and defend, fight, and mostly die. Some are nationalistic fighters and we have made a wonderful spot that attracts a small number of foreign fighters, but the vast majority have nowhere to go or the means to get somewhere else– should they just lay down and die???
Bushco crowed about their plans for the displaced during “shock and awe”, but there weren’t too, too many then.
Now there are. And our country and Jordan and most of the neighboring countries haven’t even dealt with the refugee crisis– thousands leave daily with virtually nothing but their lives and if they are found out by Jordan, for instance, they are sent back to Iraq.
Syria is taking these refugees in by the thousands and no financial support is given by the US– hell, the chimp won’t talk to them.
Siun @ 140
Thank You. It gives me a good feeling to think that I can actually bring something to the conversation.
Siun @ 137
I hope I am wrong I truly do. My statement about people like you and me was meant to mean secular minded, non fundamentalist, non extremist type folks. The Level Headed Americans.
I track the Iraq news coverage as covered by Juan Cole daily. His analysis has been spot on since the war began and I read Fisk every chance I get. I have yet to read that book but it’s on my To Read list.
At this point I am thoroughly discouraged there will be a reasonable, thoughtful solution to the mess because there was never a chance for a reasonable thoughtful solution from day one. The whole thing is a mess of our President’s choosing. There will be no win-win resolution to this mess. We will slink out of Iraq, possibly with weapons fire at our backs throwing us out.
The insurgents hate us, the non combatants hate us, our “allies” in the Iraqi government hate us and no one wants us there. It is going to get even worse before we leave and until the American people stand up and demand removal of our sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, cousins, neighbors and friends from combat and even training missions in Iraq this orgy of killing will continue unabated. Only our departure will have an effect on slowing the killing spree.
from Grandma’s hometown paper. Marc Sandalow is a reasonably astute DC observer:
Maybe it’s just because I’m going through such a hopeless time in my personal life, but I find it so hard to find any hope in the political situation in this country. It’s beating me down.
Helpless Dancer – keep bringing it!
and Angie – yep.
Fini – yes, we must leave and leave now. Guess I am uncomfortable with the “level headed” description as I find many anarchists much closer to my heart.
DreamingCrow @ 146
Ditto. It’s been a long rough year for me and I just don’t have any hope left in me for political solutions that don’t include some cynical calculation on someone’s part.
I’m off to sleep … too much today it seems.
g’nite all
I want to have hope but dayam, hope shot down is pretty frickin painful.
Siun @ 149
Good night, Siun!
I’m also ready to fall asleep in my bed. ; )
Siun @
137
I made the mistake of checking back and ended up buying a book because of it. Thanks Siun. If nothing else, reading and educating myself is a positive approach to an insane situation. This book looks to be highly informative. I appreciate the recommendation.
g’nite siun, sleep well.
I share the cynicism and wonder where this all leads.
DreamingCrow @ 146
got lots of those same feelings. let’s try, real hard all together to get this thing righted. i don’t want to sound all-glass-half-full and stuff, but we can do much together.
g’nite Siun.
Sweet dreams.
so, TRex put this thread on auto-pilot?
Bet he slipped off to the Piggly Wiggly without telling us again.
Eureka Springs, AR @
153
Siun, once you assume the horizontal position, you will be level-headed… :~) good night…
Just so that I can share too much information and show why I’m depressed . . .
Last night, I spent 10 hours in the county hospital, ending up with my 13 year old son receiving involuntary commitment to a psychiatric hospital. 10 LONG hours, they were, full of him screaming so loud that he could be heard in the waiting room and having to be put in four point restraints. At one point, there were THREE security officers required to restrain one, admittedly large, 13 year old.
We have 72 hours while he’s in there to try to come up with some form of help for the situation, as that’s all that is allowed legally before a court hearing. Most cases don’t make it past the hearing to be given an additional 14 days in the hospital.
I’m at the end of my rope. Two years ago, I started out with a suicidally depressed child who had PTSD from abuse by my ex-husband and it’s only gotten worse and worse and worse. 7 hospitalizations, 15 or so different medications tried, a ton of doctors, and one juvenile detention incarceration (2 counts of Assault 4, Domestic Violence), we’ve done it all. All the agency people tell me that we’ve done everything that we can. One of the judges stated that it was a clear case of a gap in the system, a failure of the community to provide services.
I’m a living example of what’s wrong with health care and the treatment of the mentally ill in this society, and it’s killing me.
punaise @ 154
So do I, don’t know whether it’s hope or curiosity that keeps me at the ready.
Talking Heads come to mind: This is not my beautiful house! [country, planet, constitution]
Sometimes I just shouldn’t try to communicate thoughts bigger than what my current brain energy level is capable of producing. I just don’t express myself well when I am tired. On that note, I am gonna go to bed too. Apologies to any I may have offended with half asleep bloviations out of my fingertips this evening.
DreamingCrow @ 146
Buck up, all is not hopeless. I know your feelings all too well. My life dropped in the crapper a couple of years ago and I’m still digging my way out. It’s all too easy to let personal problems to color one’s entire outlook. The situation is grim, but there is hope. My choice of screen names was not a random pick.
Suzanne @
157
That’s just such a funny visual– now, I do know that TRex is a very handsome man, but a TRex in front of a late- nite Piggly Wiggly?
“I’ll huff and I’ll puff..
no wait!
Yo, open the door, ARRRRRGH!”
DreamingCrow @ 159
You’re at the top of the prayer list tonight DreamingCrow. My heart goes out to you and your son. I hope something works out for you.
DreamingCrow @ 159–
I am sorry for what is your awful pain.
Our healthcare system is broken, but I have a bit of hope and Paul Wellstone’s spirit does live on in Senators Harkin and Kennedy and others.
Take care and have hope, please. This beautiful country is hopefully awakening.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @
164
wow. I have nothing helpful to add, just want to wish you and your son well.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 164
Thank you, thank you. We can use all the good thoughts and help that we can get. This has to end somewhere and it damn well better not be with the Boy dead or permanently broken.
angie @ 165
I am still hoping, because it’s simply not in my nature to give up hope. If it was, I would have despaired when I was diagnosed with psoriasis, Crohn’s Disease, and severe arthritis, let alone when this mess started happening. However, holding on to that hope, in the face of all that’s going on, both personally and nationally, is a full-time job.
Eureka Springs, AR @
160
feels like W is Burning Down the House
punaise @ 166
Thanks. Like I said, all the thoughts help. The past couple of times that I’ve ended up on here, I’ve ended up talking about this subject, but it’s eating my brain. I will try in the future to actually talk about the current topic. ^_-
Dreaming Crow
I’ve been in your shoes with my daughter’s PTSD borderline personality coupled with major (untreated) depression which was the result of 8 years of sexual molestation. Thankfully, after a long hard search, my ex and I were able to find a program that (fingers and toes crossed) seemed to have helped break the downward spiral she was on. I seriuously doubted she would live to see her 15th birthday but she is doing better and turns 18 this month. She choose to start over by moving in with her out of state father to finish her senior year of highschool (a heartbreak for me but if it is best for her then…)
I certainly don’t know the solution but I do know that you have to be take care of yourself before you can help your son. That was a hard lesson for me to learn but it was one of the most important.
(((((((((((hug)))))))))))))
DreamingCrow
DreamingCrow @ 170
au contraire! Late Nite is where you can let it all hang out.
popped back to blow a kiss to Fini
DreamingCow – my deepest sympathy – have been the mom for one very similar experience like that, cannot imagine what you are dealing with but know how dreadful the system is. Please make sure you are getting good support for yourself … you’ll be in my thoughts!
now really g’nite
Suzanne @ 171
I’m trying. I personally am so ill that it gets hard to focus on more than one thing at a time, especially as stress increases my pain. However, I’m working on disengaging some and taking time to hike, walk, read, drink tea, and soak at the spa. I know it helps.
Dreaming Crow – Whatever mistakes may or may not come into play. It is not your fault. As a former miserable child I can say I am quite happy (all things considered) in my adult life.
Just give space, encourage learning and constantly reinforce the love you have.
Don’t know your state or the whole condition but, fwiw, evaluations can last six weeks in many areas. An atty may be cheaper than long term costs of relying on state health care workers advice alone.
Most of all take care of you along the way.
g’nite gentle siun!
punaise @ 173
True. Be glad that I’m not really doing it though. ;) I figure that if Buddhist thoughts on reincarnation are true, I must have been truly evil in past lives, ’cause my karma is hell.
DreamingCrow @
159
My heart goes out to you. My older brother suffered a drug induced psychotic break when I was 15 and I have spent more time in locked mental facilities than anyone should ever have to. I know exactly what you’re going through and if 30 years of experience tells me anything, you will survive.
Siun @ 174
Thank you. Sleep well!
DreamingCrow, fake knee here with 5 bulging discs in my back from various job incurred injuries. It is a struggle to balance one’s physical needs with emotional needs. Toss in the financial demands of our current system and finding a balance is made even harder.
I found listening to my body closely helped, learning to self-soothe and allowing myself a set time limit on wallowing in my misery helped me get through some rough times.
angie @
172
angie gives te bestest hugs, DreamingCow. My love, too….
Eureka Springs, AR @ 176
As I’ve told my J this past year, it doesn’t matter if you hate me when you grow up, as long as what I’ve done has helped you grow up to be healthy and strong. That’s all I want out of this. I love the boy dearly and he’s incredibly stunning when he’s not ill – intelligent, creative, interesting, empathetic, responsible.
Unfortunately in WA state, it’s 72 hours and then 14 days. Altogether in the past, he’s spent about two months in hospitals and nothing’s helped. Our insurance benefits for hospitalization are long gone and we’ve been racking up more bills.
I think at this point the only thing that will help is long-term institutionalization (~6 months) to really get to the base of his problems. However, we can’t afford private care and there is a year long waiting list just to get into the state children’s hospitals. They have 92 beds total in the whole state for children. In addition, we’re not even on the waiting list yet, as you have to go through a long screening process at the county level and they haven’t even started opening new cases yet.
It is, for want of a better word, insane. The failure to provide services NOW will likely end up costing everyone, including the state, more in the long run.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 161
Well, I won’t speak for Siun, but I get the sense that many here feel that the situation in Iraq has become dire, and any reminder of reality which might dash hope is unwelcome….
Helpless Dancer @ 179
I certainly hope so and I hope that I can bring my son with me.
Thank you.
Suzanne @ 181
::laugh:: I haven’t even had the time for wallowing lately, which is probably pretty good for me. I’m dysthymic by nature and the depression has been crushing.
I’m looking at more exercise and Aikido as possible ways to help work through this, at this point. I already walk miles and miles. It’s soothing.
Ed*ard Teller @ 182
Thank you so much, to both of you.
((((((((hug)))))))))
ET!
and, btw, ouch for the cronies in AK and more to come!
Good for you, and all of the very intelligent folks in AK.
Tis better to laugh than cry which is why I hang out here at Late Nite with Mr. TRex. No matter how crappy the day has been, no matter how dark the night becomes, I always find laughter here.
angie @
188
Yeah. I’m predicting Alice Fisher, DoJ’s lead dog for their DC team handling the AK corruption investigation, is going to ride Ted and Ben Stevens’s demise to a US Senate seat. She used to emulate Katherine Harris, but is a quick learner and is now emulating Sarah Palin. That is, “if all these corropt GOP bastards are gonna fall anyway, a young GOP lady might leverage this into an image of “non-partisan slayer of corruption” or some such thing.
Keep your eye on Alice Fisher.
angie and ET – On fridays McCoughlin Group, Pat Buchanan mentioned the AK mess and predicted much more to come.
Now that congress is in recess and holidays are upon us, the MSM may have to cover it.
Alice Fisher’s name is ringing the Fitz bell in my head. Wasn’t there some talk about her trying to put the kabosh on Fitz?
yep.
Suzanne @ 189
Strange how we had to find out that sauropods have a rich sense of humor right here, at fdl, instead of at a science blog. I’m waiting for the paleontologists to catch up.
The only thing political that I can currently dredge up right now is that my husband came home on a plane from D.C. with Rep. McDermott and Senator Cantwell. He had a few minutes to talk to McDermott, who is usually very much the gentleman, in my experience. While neither of us talked to Cantwell, I must say that she looked like HELL. It really made me wonder if I had missed some major news that had happened to her or if the recent political stuff was really taking that much from her.
How’s your weather up there, ET? I have to admit, your writings of the doings up in Alaska makes me want to visit your state one day. It is on my list.
DreamingCrow @
159
Dear one, my prayers will be with you and your son and extended family tonight. I’ve shared your experience in a minimal way, only as a sister, sister-in-law, and cousin of different individuals. As a parent of a minor, you can’t step away for a day or more. My heart goes out to you, and i bow in admiration of your perseverance & courage. I’m sure i am speaking for others as well.
((((((((((((((((((((((BIG hug)))))))))))))))))))))) *trots off to make you your favorite warm beverage*
NewDealFarmGrrrlll @ 197
Thank you very much. I find that I’m adoring the community that I’ve found here. ^_^
I had some hot cocoa with with a shot of Rumpleminze earlier, while I watched Animaniacs with my husband. It was a nice break.
Dreaming Crow
wow, I have an inkling of what you are going since my youngest daughter had a hellish time from 14 to 17.
you will make and he can too. you are in my prayers.
DreamingCrow @ 198
AHH! ANIMANIACS ARE A GREAT BROAD SPECTRUM ANTI-DEPRESSANT!
fartsinsleep @ 199
I feel funny for filling up the comments with thank yous, but THANK YOU. ^_^
fartsinsleep @ 200
No doubt! I am SO glad that they have finally been released on DVD!
Suzanne @
196
Sorry. I was gone for awhile, finishing rebuilding mt favorite Joyce Chen knife – they don’t make this one anymore.
Much warmer. I was all pumped Friday, because the ice on the lake and wind were perfect for Shadowfax, our iceboat. So I prepped the boat and went to bed. When I got up in the morning, the wind had stopped and real wet snow was coming down. It ruined the ice on the lake for skating or iceboating – unless it rains.
It snowed a fair amount over the weekend. Right now it is almost 30 degrees, clear and calm.
Do come visit, Suzanne! Just give us a few hours notice.
“Dreams” – Allman Brothers
Suzanne – If you need a chauffeur, I am available and once out of the city I love camping under the stars as long as it’s above -5.
peace to all, g’nite.
I haven’t watched TV all weekend. Nobody at the house did. But I’ve been thinking about the disconnect between the ISG report’s content and public reception. Reading a lot of articles about the report’s impact.
I’ve seen people comparing this report to others – even similar reports to other presidents on Vietnam. I’d forgotten how many reports back then purported to be providing the same kind of bullshit we’re being fed now. There have been articles comparing the current situation in Iraq to desperate times in the past for other over-extended empires.
A while ago I pulled out a CD of the April, 1943 performance by the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra of Anton Bruckner’s 5th Symphony. Then I looked on the web for info on what was happening in Germany then.
Guess what? Beauraucrats were issuing reports about Stalingrad and the East, about the Atlantic, and El Alemein. The over-extended military was reeling, but well-trained and deadly.
Nobody in German politics or the military was openly recommending policies based on the overall realities of early 1943. They stayed the course.
Here’s Goebbels bragging about a speech he made when this music was actually performed:
Speer spoke first about armaments. He was persuasive. The statistics he gave were better than people expected, and earned enormous applause. Speer speaks calmly and reasonably, but very effectively. His speech will doubtless have great impact on the German and world publics…. My speech follows. It works mostly through its realism. I deal with all the questions that concern the German people today, with excellent effect.
So Goebbels is in a bubble? duh…. Fifteen months earlier, on a Christmas Eve speech – I know that countless people envy my ability to speak over the ether to millions of Germans in many lands and continents. – he explained how they had to “fight them over there, so we don’t have to fight them here:
In this third war Christmas, we celebrate more spartanly and more modestly than before, but we are protected and guarded against the threats of our enemies. We must thank those who defend us, our sons, fathers and brothers, who have learned only in distant lands among foreign peoples how dear their Fatherland and their people are.
Whoa, O’Reilly, was that dude Goebbels a staunch soldier in the War on The War on XChristmas, or what?
The comparison I’m making isn’t between Nazis and Bushistas. It is to show similarities in the disconnect of Nazi politicians from reality when their bizarre game plan went south to our politicians when a similar military shock occurred.
Hey you guys – i just want some appreciation how early i’m getting up for work, here!. i’m on a noon call to europe! hows this for dedication. i should get a raise, already.
Mornin’.
Kathryn in MA, we voted that you should get a raise.
Be sure to let the boss know.
Thanks Jane, thunder, and hotflash for your kind responses to me last night.
Good morning, pups. Here they are, today’s NYT columnists, dragged out from behind the firewall:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/f…..print.html
Bob Herbert, “The Time Is Now.”
http://select.nytimes.com/2006…..amp;emc=th
Paul Krugman, “Outsourcer in Chief.”
HotFlash @ 73
I think the reference is the this unprovable but highly appealing rumour that W’s mom is Alistair Crowley’s love-child. If I may use the term loosely.
In the link provided, there is a ceremony description that includes a process similar to one used to induce the state needed for remote viewing.
hey…by the way
Thanks Kathryn and Marion for the early morning efforts. Raises sound good.
Mornin’ all!
Did everyone see TomDelay.com? This is one of my favorite parts:
…oh, here it is from Raw – Former Rep. DeLay, indicted on state campaign finance charges, begins new ‘career’ as blogger
Those of us in Louisiana are not very happy with MyDD and DailyKos. The comments published on those websites stating that we do not deserve recovery because we did not elect their candidate are unacceptable. Perhaps if they bothered to consult those of us who understand Louisiana politics they would not have such problems. But one cannot reform racist and classist bloggers.
Oh my,major hugs to Dreaming Crow and son.
My son is around the same age,and while Asperger’s/PDD presents enormous challenges,his soul and spirit have not been so badly hurt as your son’s. We have so many mountains to climb,and some days I really want to quit,but I can’t.
I hope you can find help that understands the wounds abuse causes and that this precious child begins to heal.
g’morning all and it sounds like 2 seperate but equal forms of pay to play politics. Trouble is, people are paying with lives in the balance. Delay has some serious problems, I would venture to say, with his connections to Russian oil in the current news.
LG – I’ve seen some very disturbing patterns develop with that influence/power. The battlelines are being drawn and exposed.
Mornin Pups,
Been away from my laptop for a couple days. have to go back and catch up now. Did I miss anything good?
I’m not a good one to answer that. Around here, I feel that if I blink I miss something. I average anywhere from 2-4 hours reading on a normal thread to catch it all. Time being what it is, I feel woefully uninformed.
I didn’t even attempt the threads. Just scanned the front pages. I’m sure Imissed a lot of the good stuff, but tempis fugit.
‘Morning, FirePups. Supposed to be working on deadline, but I need a mental health break.
Just another Manic Monday, from the looks of things.
[sigh]
Morning gang — fresh thread, up and ready. Coffee’s on here…
Maybe something a little more positive comes from SFGate Blog: The Ross Report.
An American Coup
Further on Ross continues:
Louisiana Girl @
215
Amen to that, LA girl.
So why is it called the Baker report?
One Old Timer’s Take On The Baker Report
Just how stupid do they think we all are?
If a period of days can be said to mark the end of the era, this past week almost surely heralded the demise of the Bush Doctrine. On Wednesday, the Iraq Study Group dealt a death blow to the Bush foreign policy’s three pillars of no safe havens, preemptive war and democracy expansion. But it is the passing on Thursday of the neo-conservative Cold Warrior Jeane Kirkpatrick that perhaps best symbolized the closing of the book on Bush’s ill-conceived experiment with militant idealism in foreign affairs.
For the story, see:
“Jeane Kirkpatrick and the Death of the Bush Doctrine.”
on thanksgiving in 05 I made tha prediction to my family that we would be leeving Iraq by the end of 06.boy was I wrong.things are worce than what I thought it would be,but the american people still arnt willing to stand up and force our government to pull out of Iraq.The soldiers have done there job,we never should have went and then we should have left the miuet we got saddam.what the hell is wrong with people,how do you cantinue to alow americans to die in a forien countrys civil war.Our troops have no buisnes being there.They did there job,bring them home now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!