FDL!

This makes me sick, just sick….

Remember, on the most part, elected officials do not lead, they are pointed in the correct direction by the people with enough pressure. We need to keep up the pressure and not stop until every last American Troop is back home from Iraq.

Jane!
FDL, yes!

“Top Dems want more troops”

Outrageous!

Who exactly are these “top Dems”?

I don’t know the rules about this– is it too late for Nancy to castrate him and remove him from the chairmanship?

First picture I’ve seen of Reyes.

That boy’s had too many pork chops. No wonder he doesn’t know anything about Muslim sectarian politics.

If Pelosi can’t prevent the House Dems from acting like House Democrats, then we are really screwed. This country is too far into the shitter for politics as usual.

fitz!

More troops are fine so long as they include someone from the Bush family. That will never happen. The British Royal Family expects to serve. The American Royal Family expects to be served.

We are screwed.

I want American soldiers home.

Some kind of consensus is building in the Beltway that more troops need to be deployed before the drawdown begins. The explanation, as I heard somewhere, is that this is so US troops wouldn’t have to fight their way out of Iraq, if that makes any sense.

meet the new boss(es)…

thanks for catching noticing this, Jane!

[hope the outbreak can still be treated - lotta neocon virus still looking to kill…]

The Democrats are determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Badwater @ 9

More troops are fine so long as they include someone from the Bush family. That will never happen. The British Royal Family expects to serve. The American Royal Family expects to be served.

Funny, the General put up a vid just today on this very topic.

I am embarrassed by my party. The Democrats. I really am fed up with the DLC.

“We’ll be fighting in the streets,
with our children at our feet,
and the morals that they worship will be gone.
And the men who spurred us on
sit in judgement of all wrong,
they decide and the shotgun sings the song.
I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution
take a bow for the new revolution,
smile and grin at the change all around,
take up my guitar and play just like yesterday,
and I’ll get on my knees and pray.
— We don’t get fooled again.
The change it had to come,
we knew it all along,
we were liberated from the fold, that’s all.
And the world looks just the same,
and history ain’t changed,
’cause the banners were all flown in the last war.
I’ll move myself and my family aside,
if we happen to be left half alive,
I’ll get all my papers and smile at the sky,
though I know that the hypnotized never lie.
Nothing in the street looks any different to me.
And the slogans are replaced by the by,
and the parting on the left is now parting on the right,
and the beards have all grown longer over night.
Meet the new boss.
Same as the old boss“

Anybody ask Rush Holt if he knew the difference?

We knew this was going to be a marathon, not a sprint, so chin up and let’s keep going.

A democratic majority in both houses [and the Governors…and the state legislatures…sweet] was only the first step, not nirvana.

Reyes’ alleged behind-the-scenes shenanigans with Weldon in Paris don’t bode well for his judgement either.

One thing you may not know about Rep. Silvestre Reyes (D-Tx), now being considered as a compromise candidate to chair the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI), is that he joined his friend and colleague, outgoing congressman Curt Weldon at a meeting with infamous Iran Contra arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar, against the advice of the Agency, and without informing the U.S. ambassador in Paris, as is proper protocol.

(think I’ve seen this debunked elsewhere but haven’t found a link)

punaise @ 20

(think I’ve seen this debunked elsewhere but haven’t found a link)

Debunked or denied? Reyes said he was in Paris with Weldon, but did not attend the meeting.

The optics su*k and I am heartsick that these morons sent troops to a country that they did not bother to understand or educate themselves about; much less ask hard questions or delve into the “intelligence”.

Do you really think the troops understood the culture or the mission after no WMD’s were found, either? Do we really think that the commanders that flow from the commander in chief who constantly characterizes the enemy as “dead enders”, “evildoers”, “terra, terra, terraists” do any differently in order to keep them in the fight?

I can guarantee you that 99% of them did not understand the culture or, of course, the language; they are trained to kill and conquer, not to police and keep peace, and ergo, instead of “go*ks” they now face “sand *i*gers” and “towelhe*ds” and have no idea who the enemy is because all of Iraq has become the enemy, they hate them.

Bring them home.

Reyes was a Pelosi sop to AIPAC/DLC, since they couldn’t have Jane Harman.

Politicians are running amock. Most seem to want more, not less war.

I was shocked reading the Stein post. I knew their Foreign Policy illiteracy was bad. I didn’t know it was this bad, jesus h. christ. Time for me to Spotlight.

Please remember that when he took office, our dear president also did not know the divide in Islam between Sunni and Shiite, much less what constitutes their difference.

Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law.
-Louis Brandeis, lawyer, judge, and writer (1856-1941)

Sending more troops into this occupation in Iraq is one more crime, amongst so many others this administration has committed. For Democrats to join in the commission will be difficult for me to forgive.

Some of us were trying to point this out the other day. This is just another example, like the lack of charges in the House Ethics Comm that seem to be red flags for what the new democrats will be doing.

The specific failure with Reyes and more troops is his assessment that the militias have to be attacked until destroyed.

Here’s the logic. McCain’s managed to bring so much defense pork to Arizona (about $9 billion this year, way up from prior years), that the idiots think he’s an expert at military matters.

So, McCain must be right about the extra troops, and if I go along, some of that military smarts will rub off on me, and I’ll get more defense pork in my district.

Completely magical thinking, but it’s got to be something like that.

I doubt seriously that Reyes is capable of supplying a well thought out reason for this position, and wouldn’t be able to respond sensibly to any counter-arguments, but there you are.

The question now ought to be of Ms. Pelosi: why did you put another fuckin’ chucklehead in charge of the House Select Committee on Intelligence?

Biodun @ 25

Please remember that when he took office, our dear president also did not know the divide in Islam between Sunni and Shiite, much less what constitutes their difference.

These days, saying someone is just as smart as the President is no compliment. :)

angie @
22

The optics su*k and I am heartsick that these morons sent troops to a country that they did not bother to understand or educate themselves about; much less ask hard questions or delve into the “intelligence”.

Do you really think the troops understood the culture or the mission after no WMD’s were found, either? Do we really think that the commanders that flow from the commander in chief who constantly characterizes the enemy as “dead enders”, “evildoers”, “terra, terra, terraists” do any differently in order to keep them in the fight?

I can guarantee you that 99% of them did not understand the culture or, of course, the language; they are trained to kill and conquer, not to police and keep peace, and ergo, instead of “go*ks” they now face “sand *i*gers” and “towelhe*ds” and have no idea who the enemy is because all of Iraq has become the enemy, they hate them.

Bring them home.

I saw a newspiece on a benefit show for the troops over there of professional female wrestlers…and Santa….and Christmas….not that there’s anything wrong with any of that but it might not be appropriate in someone else’s home.

Angie #22 – And we have such a wonderful example of competent accountable police in our country. Trampling people with horses in Houston, shooting unarmed citizens, warrantless entries all over the US and zapping students in a library just to mention a few recent examples.

Yea, I know. I blame America, too.

Riesz Fischer @
5

I don’t know the rules about this– is it too late for Nancy to castrate him and remove him from the chairmanship?

I find myself not terribly worried about this. One good cup of STFU is most certainly in order, however – hopefully delivered, in person, by Nancy Pelosi.

I think it’ll work – if not – well, I’m still consider the castration thing….

It’s things like this which keep me from switching from N/A to Democratic.

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, seems like time for a letter or call. Now, most Congresscritters won’t take calls from people not in their district, and have those e-mail thingies that bounce mail from anyone not the ‘correct’ zip code. I recall TeddySF saying that reps legally can’t represent people not in their district. OK, this makes sense (sort of).

BUT, most legislators are on committees whose work has a national or international effect. How can we input here? The various committees give snail-mail addresses but not e-mail, and due to security concerns snail mail takes 2-4 weeks to get delivered. Oh, you can get on *their* e-mail list, though. Anybody know how to get a word or two to a congresscritter in their capacity as committee member in a timely manner? Do we have to do it through our own reps?

Biodun @ 25

Please remember that when he took office, our dear president also did not know the divide in Islam between Sunni and Shiite, much less what constitutes their difference.

This is not about who *they*are, it is about who *we* are. And couldn’t he have read up on it? I mean, where has he been? from his website:

As a member of the House Armed Services Committee, Reyes has traveled numerous times to meet with soldiers serving in Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Enduring Freedom and around the world. He undertakes these trips to gain a first-hand perspective of the situation on the ground, improve morale and ensure that our servicemen and women have the equipment they need to keep them safe. Reyes has also traveled with the Armed Services Committee to North Korea to meet with high-ranking North Korean officials to encourage the abandonment of their nuclear weapons programs, and to Libya to inspect progress following Libyan leader Gaddafi’s pledge to rid his country of weapons of mass destruction.

I will say that the divide between Sunni and Shia is not that great among the people; people who intermarry and live side by side. They are brothers and sisters in Islam. What has occurred is a result of oppression of a population and in Iraq’s case, the minority lording over the majority. It’s way complex, but I think it is not a function of religious differences, but rather the social/economic oppression, disenfranchisement, and brutality on the part of Saddam.

(fwiw, I think the civil war was engineered very much by us.)

Having said all this, bushco and far too many of our legislators are just ignorant beyond belief.

(I’ll bet you there are Christians and Shia who are AQ and same goes for Sunnis and Christians who are Hezbollah– I very much shy away from absolutes and think that the cause is the motivation, not the religion)

What are the reasons behind the advocates for staying in Iraq. I’ve heard the bull’t reasons, but I’m not buying the spin. What’s really behind the stay the course irresponsibility? Seriously.

HotFlash @ 35

Biodun @ 25

Please remember that when he took office, our dear president also did not know the divide in Islam between Sunni and Shiite, much less what constitutes their difference.

This is not about who *they*are, it is about who *we* are. And couldn’t he have read up on it? I mean, where has he been? from his website:

As a member of the House Armed Services Committee, Reyes has traveled numerous times to meet with soldiers serving in Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Enduring Freedom and around the world. He undertakes these trips to gain a first-hand perspective of the situation on the ground, improve morale and ensure that our servicemen and women have the equipment they need to keep them safe. Reyes has also traveled with the Armed Services Committee to North Korea to meet with high-ranking North Korean officials to encourage the abandonment of their nuclear weapons programs, and to Libya to inspect progress following Libyan leader Gaddafi’s pledge to rid his country of weapons of mass destruction.

Kinda scary, isn’t it?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 37

What are the reasons behind the advocates for staying in Iraq. I’ve heard the bull’t reasons, but I’m not buying the spin. What’s really behind the stay the course irresponsibility? Seriously.

War is good for business.

naschkatze @ 34

It’s things like this which keep me from switching from N/A to Democratic.

I don’t blame you.

something that dawned on me yesterday was that, if suddenly fuckwad found a way to “win” in iraq, if with some kind of military magic the insurgents were defeated or gave up, and maliki and company were able to stabilize the country and it began to heal, if this were to happen then fuckwad would be a hero and all would be forgiven. all of the horror and evil that he and his policies have wrought would be forgotten. i don’t mean that the iraqis would forget, or people in other parts of the world would forget, but enough americans would forget so that fuckwad would end his presidency fairly well thought of.
this idea troubles me. any decent human being should want the war to stop. any caring human being would want the insurgency to falter and be truly crushed. at the same time i fervently hope that fuckwad is rendered completely irrelevant and prevented from enacting any more of his bizarre agenda ……

Oklahoma kiddo @ 38

What are the reasons behind the advocates for staying in Iraq. I’ve heard the bull’t reasons, but I’m not buying the spin. What’s really behind the stay the course irresponsibility? Seriously.

No disrespect – honest – but you’re looking for more than is there. A one-word answer – hubris.

HotFlash @ 40

Oklahoma kiddo @ 37

What are the reasons behind the advocates for staying in Iraq. I’ve heard the bull’t reasons, but I’m not buying the spin. What’s really behind the stay the course irresponsibility? Seriously.

War is good for business.

If this is really the reason, and it may be, then we are lost.

Reyes might also impede investigations calling for accountability on prewar intelligence.

Pelosi navigates minefield with intelligence panel pick

…Reyes said his top priorities will be the continuing war in Iraq, the National Security Agency wiretapping program disclosed last year and the Bush administration program of detaining terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. But he said he wasn’t particularly interested in looking back at pre-Iraq war intelligence.

“It’s more important to move forward and look forward,” he said, promising “true oversight and real consequences that haven’t been there for the last six years,” referring to how the Republican Congress has dealt with the Bush administration since 2001.

In indicating he won’t study prewar intelligence, Reyes took a position that contrasts sharply with that of the new Senate Intelligence Committee chairman, Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va. Rockefeller has said one of his top priorities will be to complete a long-delayed report on prewar intelligence….

“Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss.”

- The Who

fahrender @ 41

something that dawned on me yesterday was that, if suddenly fuckwad found a way to “win” in iraq,

He can’t even define what “winning” or “victory” is, so?

Once they think they’ve got the oil contracts they need, and have a suitable–and stable–puppet government in place and get the troops back to bases off in the desert where they can’t be seen by most Iraqis, they’ll then wait until mid-2008 and declare victory and bring sixty or seventy thousand home.

That’s the best case. The worst case is that they bull ahead as they have all along and leave the problem to whoever wins in 2009 (and politics being what they are), that president will use eventual withdrawal as a carrot to attract voters for the 2012 election.

But, that doesn’t mean that now-prominent Democrats suddenly have to give the nitwit-in-chief the benefit of the doubt.

Oklahoma kiddo @
38

What are the reasons behind the advocates for staying in Iraq. I’ve heard the bull’t reasons, but I’m not buying the spin. What’s really behind the stay the course irresponsibility? Seriously.

for a pretty good answer to your question go read matt taibbi’s work that pach links to a couple of posts back.

Sorry David I didn’t see your #17.

Great minds yadadayaada….

angie @37:

Let me just say that yes, Sunni and Shia intermarry and sometimes get together politically and militarily (like the alliance of Lebanon Hezbollah and Palestinian Hamas against Israel).

However, the Sunni-Shia divide has been further aggravated by the civil war, undergirded by the Sunni oppression of the Shia under Saddam, and for better or worse, how these differences play out (fueled by Syrian and Iranian Shias pouring into Iraq) will determine the future of Iraq (and perhaps of that region) after US troops leave.

Iran. for one, has designs on a Shia Crescent in the Middle East.

I’d like to say I didn’t see this coming, but I did. Reyes seems like the best available option for heading the Intelligence Committee, but he’s certainly not a great choice.

Let’s hope he decides to do oversight of the intelligence community better than he does military planning.

egregious @
19

We knew this was going to be a marathon, not a sprint, so chin up and let’s keep going.

A democratic majority in both houses [and the Governors…and the state legislatures…sweet] was only the first step, not nirvana.

Again I find myself in complete agreement with you. 06′ wasn’t the end result. It was a Great Start.

I’m not going to stop until the DLC is considered the Right Wing and Russ Feingold is considered a centrist.

fahrender @ 42

something that dawned on me yesterday was that, if suddenly fuckwad found a way to “win” in iraq, if with some kind of military magic the insurgents were defeated or gave up, and maliki and company were able to stabilize the country and it began to heal, if this were to happen then fuckwad would be a hero and all would be forgiven. all of the horror and evil that he and his policies have wrought would be forgotten. i don’t mean that the iraqis would forget, or people in other parts of the world would forget, but enough americans would forget so that fuckwad would end his presidency fairly well thought of.
this idea troubles me. any decent human being should want the war to stop. any caring human being would want the insurgency to falter and be truly crushed. at the same time i fervently hope that fuckwad is rendered completely irrelevant and prevented from enacting any more of his bizarre agenda ……

I don’t think we need to worry much about that “if.” There is no way to “win” that I can even imagine, and if there were, Der Shrubbenfuhrer would still stay his course right off the cliff.

rumi @ 45

…Reyes said his top priorities will be the continuing war in Iraq,

My eyes scanned that as “Reyes said his top priorities will be continuing the war in Iraq, . . .”

Bit of a hit to my blood pressure, there.

However, the Sunni-Shia divide has been further aggravated by the civil war

Biodun– yep. How very sad.

Sufferin’ Succotash!

(”I Tot I Taw a Putty Tat”)

Nate @ 51

egregious @
19

We knew this was going to be a marathon, not a sprint, so chin up and let’s keep going.

A democratic majority in both houses [and the Governors…and the state legislatures…sweet] was only the first step, not nirvana.

Again I find myself in complete agreement with you. 06′ wasn’t the end result. It was a Great Start.

I’m not going to stop until the DLC is considered the Right Wing and Russ Feingold is considered a centrist.

Which takes us back to the previous thread and Teddy’s question of how we ride herd on these folks.

I give up. I don’t care anymore. It’s just more of the same. I worked my ass off in ‘68 and ‘06. I’ll do it no more. There is no hope. Rest in peace America.

Sorry, I can’t take any more of this crap.

oregondave @ 53

rumi @ 45

…Reyes said his top priorities will be the continuing war in Iraq,

My eyes scanned that as “Reyes said his top priorities will be continuing the war in Iraq, . . .”

Bit of a hit to my blood pressure, there.

Me too!

Fahrender sed:
something that dawned on me yesterday was that, if suddenly fuckwad found a way to “win” in iraq, if with some kind of military magic the insurgents were defeated or gave up, and maliki and company were able to stabilize the country and it began to heal, if this were to happen then fuckwad would be a hero and all would be forgiven.
====

An eventuality devoutly desired by fuckwad; in fact, it constitutes his whole policy, imho.

oregondave @ 54

I did the same thing. Maybe the writers drop those jewels in there deliberately.

montag (#47):

yeah, i know he can’t. i was just being hypothetical, just trying to get at what people are willing to forget, almost in the blink of an eye, when a politician gets lucky.

i don’t think they’re going to get a stable puppet government in place either. not in two years. if the shia militias get fuckwad’s backing they might take out the sunnis if the kurdish militias go in with them. but what then? they aren’t going to support any puppet shit. we’ll have to get out of dodge. and that’s our best scenario, whether anybody will admit it or not.

Mommybrain @ 59

Fahrender sed:
something that dawned on me yesterday was that, if suddenly fuckwad found a way to “win” in iraq, if with some kind of military magic the insurgents were defeated or gave up, and maliki and company were able to stabilize the country and it began to heal, if this were to happen then fuckwad would be a hero and all would be forgiven.
====

An eventuality devoutly desired by fuckwad; in fact, it constitutes his whole policy, imho.

Maybe that’s what they are using to make him walk and talk, but I think the real aims are oil and dynasty. Connect the dots.

Reyes is gonna be one of those “coming-round” politicos the Speaker picked because of this view — just like Murtha was. By staking this position, Sylvestre may be positioned to bring the GOP, GOP-lite, and redstate righties with him as his Intelligence role reveals all the horrors of Iraq then, Iraq now, and Iraq in the future.

I expect him to be a leader in the

Troops
Home
NOW

movement by late February. No urgency like a convert’s, I say.

TeddySanFran @ 63

Reyes is gonna be one of those “coming-round” politicos the Speaker picked because of this view — just like Murtha was. By staking this position, Sylvestre may be positioned to bring the GOP, GOP-lite, and redstate righties with him as his Intelligence role reveals all the horrors of Iraq then, Iraq now, and Iraq in the future.

I expect him to be a leader in the

Troops
Home
NOW

movement by late February. No urgency like a convert’s, I say.

The last and worst evil in Pandora’s box was Hope.

If there is a Mod around, I have a post in the previous thread that is stuck in moderation for some reason. Any chance of taking a look?

And to everyone from the previous thread who talked about emailing me I say, Please Do!

All help, ideas, support, assistance is gratefully welcome.

[Mod Note; It’s been freed. Refresh your screen, not just comments, and it should appear.]

I was afraid of this when I heard Ed Schulz interviewing Reyes on Schulz’s radio show last week. Schulz, of all people, was trying to save Reyes from himself and spoon fed him the answers he should have been giving. To say Reyes, who touted himself as a 16-year veteran of the committee, was unimpressive is an undertstatement. This is disappointing.

Either Pelosi is keeping her own counsel, or she is not getting the staff support she needs to keep from making avoidable mistakes. I just hope someone close to her jumps in and helps her navigate these waters better.

–

OMG there is an interview with someone from the Gulf Coast on our local Air America station about the current state following Katrina. Telling about a couple of 4 yr olds who needed emergency help for suicide and mental health crisis.

http://www.1480kphx.com/
click the listen live link

HotFlash @ 65

The last and worst evil in Pandora’s box was Hope.

Oh great. Well that just fuckin’ figures, doesn’t it?

TSF @ 63

The Intelligence committees see a lot of confidential material, but the most confidential stuff is shared only with the chair and ranking member. I’m hoping that once Reyes gets his “welcome to the chair” briefing, his eyes will be opened up a bit more.

PeeJ @ 58

I give up. I don’t care anymore. It’s just more of the same. I worked my ass off in ‘68 and ‘06. I’ll do it no more. There is no hope. Rest in peace America.

Sorry, I can’t take any more of this crap.

I campaigned for McGovern in 1972, and was depressed after the election. I was stunned when Reagan won in 1980. I was dismayed when Bush 41 won in 1988. I was elated in 1992. 2000 was a disaster. I was stunned again in 2004, that in spite of all, that bumbler and his rogue team got reelected.

But 2006 is definitely a ray of hope. Before the election, Andrew Sullivan (whose ideological bent I don’t share) said something I believed in. He said “if the Democrats don’t capture both the House and the Senate, then there’s something wrong with the system.”

2006 is the beginning. We’ll work for 2008. PeeJ: Please don’t give up.

There’s a division of labor apparent here:

In indicating he won’t study prewar intelligence, Reyes took a position that contrasts sharply with that of the new Senate Intelligence Committee chairman, Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va. Rockefeller has said one of his top priorities will be to complete a long-delayed report on prewar intelligence….

Why should both the House and the Senate Intelligence Committees spend time investigating the past? Clearly Jay Rock has his plate full with the past, let’s get Reyes looking forward to avoid the War on Iranians. Somebody’s got to keep Chimp’s BigTime instincts contained. Might as well be Sylvestre.

PeeJ @
58

I give up. I don’t care anymore. It’s just more of the same. I worked my ass off in ‘68 and ‘06. I’ll do it no more. There is no hope. Rest in peace America.

Sorry, I can’t take any more of this crap.

I may not know too many things PeeJ but I do know this. True character comes from the fight, not the victory…

A line from Joe Pesci in a great movie called “With Honor” comes to mind.

“Losers worry about whether they win or lose. Winners forget they’re in a race. They just love to run.”

If your fatalism and defeatist pessimism is genuine and not just “concern trolling”, then you have my sympathy and even my pity. I genuinely feel for your frame of mind.

Now you’ll excuse me because I have some running to do!

Nate @ 52
Re: Don’t stop until Feingold is considered a centrist:
YES.

Oh Peej– stick with us; most of those I know thought I was too obsessed over these last 6 yrs with ridding us of this miasma, but they got hope after the election.

I know how you feel– I want a new way NOW, but it’s time for the hardest work now which is to make them accountable to us.

Stick around, the best is yet to come.

(and if it doesn’t, I’ll just throw the covers over my head and hunker down and love my loved ones.)

“More troops” is nothing more or less than political posturing. You can “call” for more troops until the moon evaporates but that won’t enable you to actually produce them. The military is not capable of supplying even 20,000 without doing something very drastic.

Nate (#73):

That’s the gospel, Nate. Defeatists get defeated. Nobody said this was going to be easy and it never will be.

Goodnight all. Catch you on the flip side.

g’nite fahrender.

sweet dreams.

TeddySanFran @ 72

There’s a division of labor apparent here:

In indicating he won’t study prewar intelligence, Reyes took a position that contrasts sharply with that of the new Senate Intelligence Committee chairman, Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va. Rockefeller has said one of his top priorities will be to complete a long-delayed report on prewar intelligence….

Why should both the House and the Senate Intelligence Committees spend time investigating the past? Clearly Jay Rock has his plate full with the past, let’s get Reyes looking forward to avoid the War on Iranians. Somebody’s got to keep Chimp’s BigTime instincts contained. Might as well be Sylvestre.

I understand that but I’d like for all of them to be at least on the same page. He didn’t have to wash his hands so early. Ill do some research but my first instinct is that there are paths to pursue independent of each other that might justify both bodies investigating.

If the dude can’t multitask his ass shouldn’t be sitting on the Intel Committee.

Nate, more comments downstairs.

fahrender @ 77

Nate (#73):

That’s the gospel, Nate. Defeatists get defeated. Nobody said this was going to be easy and it never will be.

Goodnight all. Catch you on the flip side.

Thanks fahrender. G’night to you and hope to see you soon.

Nate @ 73

PeeJ @
58

I give up. I don’t care anymore. It’s just more of the same. I worked my ass off in ‘68 and ‘06. I’ll do it no more. There is no hope. Rest in peace America.

Sorry, I can’t take any more of this crap.

I may not know too many things PeeJ but I do know this. True character comes from the fight, not the victory…

A line from Joe Pesci in a great movie called “With Honor” comes to mind.

“Losers worry about whether they win or lose. Winners forget they’re in a race. They just love to run.”

If your fatalism and defeatist pessimism is genuine and not just “concern trolling”, then you have my sympathy and even my pity. I genuinely feel for your frame of mind.

Now you’ll excuse me because I have some running to do!

Truer words have never been spoken. I get tired of it…of course! Everybody does but the reality is that there have always been and always will be such internal threats to our nation. They have always been opposed and they always will be opposed because they must be. This debate has been going on far longer than we have been alive and will be going on when our children’s children are old. As long as I have the strength, I will oppose the internal enemies of my nation.

MargaretPOA @ 75

“More troops” is nothing more or less than political posturing. You can “call” for more troops until the moon evaporates but that won’t enable you to actually produce them. The military is not capable of supplying even 20,000 without doing something very drastic.

Two and three tours by National Guard units is not drastic?

Once that need is set in stone, they’ll find more bodies. That’s what it’s about. They can talk 20,000 new trainers all day long, but if the trainers there now aren’t qualified, where are they going to get more?

It’s about bodies. That’s it. There are 1.4 million people in the active duty military, and more in the guards and reserves. About 145,000 of those are in Iraq or in that region attached to Iraq operations. That means there are 1,255,000 minimum to choose from. The commanders can whine that they aren’t properly trained, or haven’t had enough time home between tours, but….

Crooks & Liars just posted a very relevant thread to this one in its own way. Not the Dem leadership side of things but just the cold hard realities of “more troops”.

Kathryn… Off to go read it.

Teddy, this is a really upsetting thing for me. This bozo Reyes has been portrayed in the media (and it looks like they were being easy on him?) as being an ignoramus on a topic which he should know at least as well as we do.

It’s not like he’s been on the moon. This is his fifth term, he is been a member of the Armed Services Committee, the Permanent Intelligence Committee, the Veterans Affairs Committee and the Subcommittee on Terrorism and Homeland Security. He has been to Iraq “numerous times”.

Why will these two months suddenly bring him up to speed? And why didn’t he have the wit to STFU if he knew nothing? I’m think I am more offended by his ignorance of his ignorance than by his actual ignorance.

Shall we make up an Amazon wish list for him?

‘Scuse me, I’m not so pissed off that I’ll stop fighting *yet*, but it’s just so not encouraging.

Also, Teddy, if you’re still here, can you shed any light on my question HotFlash @
35

PS I may be missing something important here, as I don’t see the drop-down video box Jane mentions up top. I may have a javascript blocade or something.

montag @ 28

Here’s the logic. McCain’s managed to bring so much defense pork to Arizona (about $9 billion this year, way up from prior years), that the idiots think he’s an expert at military matters.

So, McCain must be right about the extra troops, and if I go along, some of that military smarts will rub off on me, and I’ll get more defense pork in my district.

Completely magical thinking, but it’s got to be something like that.

I doubt seriously that Reyes is capable of supplying a well thought out reason for this position, and wouldn’t be able to respond sensibly to any counter-arguments, but there you are.

The question now ought to be of Ms. Pelosi: why did you put another fuckin’ chucklehead in charge of the House Select Committee on Intelligence?

If – as widely written – his appointment arose from considerations of the Dems’ ethnic caucuses, I hope the Dem leaders and the ethnic caucus members can get off their sorry asses and look in the mirror while someone with a goddamn backbone reads them demographics breakdown on our military casualities.

Here’s a radical idea for Nancy and the Dems from a DFH:

The next time you vote for a crucial position, try and look beyond melanin and accent and birthplace and gonadal location and SENIORITY and make certain the Congressperson you select knows enough to do their work -

when lives or health depend upon competence, appoint the person with the best skill-set.

Government by cronies sucks – ask New Orelans.

Bush’s rich cronies trashed FEMA.

A bunch of Maxine Waters’ LA cronies thought ethnic politics were more important than lives, so hundreds of people died at “Killer King” – and the hospital is now down-sized.

HEY CONGRESSIONAL DEMS: YOUR CRONIES ARE INCOMPETENT, TOO!

Quit fucking with our lives while you settle old chits from inside the Beltway identity group politics.

The planet can’t wait for all the posturing over who hurt who worst, first, and when.

The whole five hundred years of European colonialism, the millenia of sexism, the racism, slavery in America, slavery in the Arab World, Africans’ enlsavement of Africans, rivers of blood from religious oppression, the centuries of class oppression: it was all fucking horrible.

It’s still fucking horrible.

And selecting people to fill critical roles to try and fix millenia of errors before the planet heats out of control or blows up is too fucking important to be derailed by your petty fucking infighting over identity group politics.

I hope every caucus member who pushed for this idiot’s appointment shows up at the funeral of every GI killed in ‘07 with a big “MY BAD” sign tied around their stupid, culpable necks.

Pols who owe their power to identity group politics won’t like this, and will probably call me racist.

BFD.

I care about the patients, not the lethal ambitious politicos.

Maxine Waters’ chorus deflected criticism of “Killer King” by dismissing the crtics as racist – and allowed a few lethal African-American clinicians to kill impoverished African-American patients for years.

I’ve never figured out why killing patients was the desired goal of identity group politics – but the goal of protecting ranking politicians and administrators from their own incomptence was quite obvious – and effectively achieved for over a decade.

Of course, why trouble with all the African American patients who died?

None of the politicos lost an election over it, so it was OK, right?

Oh – and Congressional Dems – the issue here is your own lust for power, as enshrined in seniority rules. All the idenity group caucii have very capable junior memebers, so the issue here isn’t that identity-group blind appointments would only leave white males. (As Stenny indicates, selecting leaders only from among senior white male Dems would be a catastrophe.)

The issue here is that senior members lacking particular qualifications call in chits to get appointments. Congressional Dems, demonstrate that you serve the nation, not the seniority system.

Congressional Dems, diversity is wonderful and neccessary – so is competence. So the next time the identity group caucii need to fight for diversity, could they please bestir themselves to serve not the senior caucus members, but – instead – serve the nation – and unite behind the most competent caucus member to do the job?

That way, no matter which group’s real history of oppression, suffering, and disenfranchisement is most compelling in selecting appointees, the people appointed will all be excellent.

The problem, Congressional Dems, is not with your committment to diversity, but with your cronies.

You choose which is most important – I suggest dumping the cronies. Starting with the indifferent ignorant Reyes.

great rant, kirk murphy

Two and three tours by National Guard units is not drastic?

**********************************************************

I never even implied that two or three tours in the National Guard wasn’t drastic but I was referring to eliminating ALL seperations and turning cooks and mechanics into riflemen. The public won’t have it or weren’t you paying attention in November? I was extended 6 months for the first Persian Gulf conflict and it was very damaging to morale and attitude. Some of these poor people have been extended, as you indicated, several times. They can threaten prison or Courts Martial but if the troops have had enough, they won’t work or fight. Your premise of thinking that they aren’t semi autonomous simply because they are in the service is specious and un informed.

punaise @ 86

great rant, kirk murphy

I’m expecting to have my SF residency revoked any day now….. ;)

What is most confounding to me is this notion that “yeah, I was against the war, but now we’re there– let’s send more troops so we can appear strong and committed to the insanity.”

wtf? Get out.

Admit we were wrong, talk to the Iraqi people, the neighbors, admit defeat, pay reparations and apologize and beg for forgiveness and start being the good country we should be and engage diplomatically with other countries in order to protect our national security instead of using and bombing them.

Bushco and far too many Americans poured all of the good will we received on 9/11 right into the gutter along with French wine.

The people want the United States out of Iraq and we need to loudly remind the politicians of that constantly.

kirk murphy @ 88

punaise @ 86

great rant, kirk murphy

I’m expecting to have my SF residency revoked any day now….. ;)

don’t expect to be granted asylum in Berkeley. :~)

kirk murphy @ 89

punaise @ 86

great rant, kirk murphy

I’m expecting to have my SF residency revoked any day now….. ;)

Ah, but it’s lovely – ok it kinda sucks this time of year in Indy – but just in case…

In this Christmas season, when spirits can sag and tempers flare, let me link you to a story of a child bringing light and warmth to his friends.

MargaretPOA @ 87

Your premise of thinking that they aren’t semi autonomous simply because they are in the service is specious and un informed.

Uninformed. I see. Guess my three years in don’t count.

If Bush, in the depths of his childish idiocy says, “send 20,000 more,” the military has no choice but to comply. To do otherwise is a violation of article 94, UCMJ. And Peter Pace doesn’t exactly look, to me, like the type to disobey a direct order from the President.

Turning cooks and mechanics into riflemen? Sure. That’s what KBR is for–cooks and mechanics, so the thinking goes….

Do you really think people like McCain (who wants to be president so badly it makes his gums bleed) and Bush give a shit about morale?

punaise @ 92

kirk murphy @ 88

punaise @ 86

great rant, kirk murphy

I’m expecting to have my SF residency revoked any day now….. ;)

don’t expect to be granted asylum in Berkeley. :~)

So that’s why BART wouldn’t sell me the right ticket.

I’ll have to inform the “9-11 ‘truth’ movement” of this new conspiracy.

Wait – did anyone here call the movers? They just showed up here..

KM @ 85..”Maxine Waters’ chorus deflected criticism of “Killer King” by dismissing the crtics as racist – and allowed a few lethal African-American clinicians to kill impoverished African-American patients for years.”

Is that why Ms Waters is on the CREW most corrupt list?

It’s not often that i venture into the digital world, but i wanted to stop you folks from always arguing amongst yourselves. i’m going to take a shot here, and normally i’m a good shot, though i admit i didn’t see his face when i pulled down in texas, but we all make mistakes.

I think you FDLers will understand: We had to lie. There was no chance you would understand that control of energy resources is the only power in the future, so we said WMD. big fookin deal. They are not permanent bases to us, they are the means to control the future which you liberal dogs can’t understand, because you’re so busy feeling the pain of collateral damage.

Perhaps some of you are politically astute enough to remember the name of the CIA chief who founded and conglomerated abcDisney. Well, Gates was at his bedside when he died, and he’s doing all he can to keep that dream alive.

We are making the thousand year civilization, because it needs to be done and we control the necessary resources to bring it about. That little shit Gregious Palast had it right, first we keep the oil from flowing so the price remains high, then when noone else has any we do. And you think that’s stupid?

If only once in your dog lives you would understand what is at stake against your nattering nabobs of negativity, youwouldrealize that we are allowing your children to live in comfort. Because we control how all the world heats its houses.

My daughter is schwul and having a nonman baby. I’m sad that it’s because i had to take so much time to save civilization, otherwise she… doesn’t matter. Within our own circle we live and let live.

But for you, you had best get with the program, because we only do it for your future and our profit is only a side effect, like viagra makes your wife a Senator.

Your children will thank us for controlling the means of house heating, which we believe in winter is important. We think that all of you bipartisanlike will also think that controlling home heating is probably the most important political goal of everyone.

I w0uld like to thank the dogfirelakers for allowing me to tell you what we are going to do before we destroy your website if you don’t go with us. Thank you for responding genuflectionerwise.

[Mod Note; we’re assuming you’re channeling Deadeye. Hope the exorcism goes well]

kirk murphy @ 95

Wait – did anyone here call the movers? They just showed up here..

not the movers, but the shakers

new thread

All right. I honestly didn;t come here to fight. Goodbye and I’m sorry.

Steve @ 85 – I’ve no idea reagrding CREW’s assessments.

To the best of my knowledge, the MLK/Drew deaths came from social corruption – cronyism – not economic corruption. I’m unaware of ay suggestion that Waters benefited materially from King/Drew, and no reason to belive that was the case…

————

and jayt in Indianopolis – thanks for the welcome! I loved Christmas in southern Ohio with my grandparetns – hope you all have a good Christmas and/or Happy Holiday there in IN. :)

Margaret@87, Montag@95. To me it looks like you are describing the same situation.

Montag pointing out irresistible force, Margaret the immovable object.

Oh god oh god oh god, my head hurts. OK gang, what if you have an election and they still don’t get it?

What we said in November. Troops.Home.Now.

EPU’d, but this doesn’t belong on the next thread – I think. (I’ll let others repost this, if they want to.)

This week’s Science News has this:

The Predator’s Gaze
Scientists explore the frightening world of psychopaths

The description of the conditions sounds really familiar…

Looks like that wannabe James joyce oil hungry idiot is in moderation, though moderation is something that people of conscience can no longer abide bye the bye by. i would like an Apollo program for renewable energy to save america’s economy, but it ain’t gonna happen.

I would like the Feingold dems to be the center, but it ain’t gonna happen, unless the pups here stop paying their energy bills.

I would like FDL to be the center of the debate, and my only anger is that i wasn’t invited to Christy’s cocktail party.

HotFlash @ 102

Margaret@87, Montag@95. To me it looks like you are describing the same situation.

Montag pointing out irresistible force, Margaret the immovable object.

Oh god oh god oh god, my head hurts. OK gang, what if you have an election and they still don’t get it?

What we said in November. Troops.Home.Now.

The alternative explanation is that we were used in a powergrab that was only exchanging Ds for Rs with little difference in policy.

Either way, if there is no change in Iraq, no change in corruption and/or no accountability for past corruption then the wholesale changes will continue. The Ds need to remember that the people didn’t vote for Democrats; the people voted for change.

Did most here know Foggo and Goss are also leaving the CIA?

I wonder Reyes position on the border drug trade and the House of Death issues? That has to beat the odds that 2 names involved as victims are Reyes and Padilla….just coincidence, I think.

Direct to Mod. If i only could exorcise Deadeye, no matter what the cost to my personal life, i would do it. (the closest i came was when i was backing out of a West Wing meeting, speaking my last thought as i left the room, not looking where i was backing into, when i discovered that my elbow had slammed into Mr. Kissinger’s stomach while he was walking with Mr Haig down the hall, and i actually said to him “you deserved it.”

Crazy Horse– wow.

You were most excellent, but I wish you could have put your other available elbow into Haig’s belly!

Too funny and thanks!

naschkatze @
34

It’s things like this which keep me from switching from N/A to Democratic.

And you are certainly not the only one. I was floored when I learned about this. Jeezus H Christ on a toothpick, how the hell does a bozo like this get a job like this? I’ve been railing against the Republicans for years about how they put foxes in charge of chicken coops all over the place, and now this? Where’s Reyes’ basic intellectual curiosity? Have there been ANY Texas politicians with any intellect since Ann Richards?