
Today, the family of Jeane Kirkpatrick is feeling the loss of an extraordinarily accomplished woman, of incisive wit and remarkable influence. Our thoughts today go out to her family.
Whatever Jeane Kirkpatrick may have been like in private (and I have no reason to believe she was anything but wonderful), her public persona hewed to the rigorous conventions of What Is Allowed for Women in national leadership. I do not suggest she was merely acting or posturing, but she was right from central casting for her public role, and any deviation from it would have destroyed her career.
Jeane Kirkpatrick was no Lady MacBeth, but the famous Shakespearean character represents an archetype of longstanding in our culture that equates strength with "masculine" bloodlust. Lady MacBeth famously implored the heavens:
. . . Come, you spirits
That tend on mortal thoughts, unsex me here,
And fill me from the crown to the toe top-full
Of direst cruelty! make thick my blood;
Stop up the access and passage to remorse,
That no compunctious visitings of nature
Shake my fell purpose, nor keep peace between
The effect and it! Come to my woman's breasts,
And take my milk for gall, you murdering ministers,
Wherever in your sightless substances
You wait on nature's mischief! Come, thick night,
And pall thee in the dunnest smoke of hell,
That my keen knife see not the wound it makes,
Nor heaven peep through the blanket of the dark,
To cry 'Hold, hold!'
In archetypal, dramatic form, that's the only way (so far) Americans can tolerate women in national leadership roles: unsexed, vexed by and opposed to feminists, upholding the masculine virtues of wreck, havoc and war, scornful of minorities, the poor and working people. In the UK, Margaret Thatcher fit the mold as well, and what's more, all of this goes a long way toward explaining the choices of Hillary Clinton and the media coverage of Nancy Pelosi.
Senator Clinton has been running throughout her electoral (post White House) life to embody similar "masculine" virtues, supporting American military adventurism in Iraq until late in the DC fuckup recognition game. It is yet to be seen how the public can tolerate a Democratic woman in national leadership, which is why the hateful, snotty smearing of Nancy Pelosi is so instructive. You can almost feel the telegasbags of the world puzzling over how to talk about the Speaker elect on the Sunday morning gossipfests among the likes of Russert, Stephanopolous and all the gang of 500. Republican men only tolerate their women in leadership according to the Kirkpatrick/Thatcher mold, as befits their authoritarian fantasies, but since Democratic women in leadership will not ascend to power appealing to that base, one wonders why Senator Clinton seems to feel the need to pay as much homage as she does to the Thatcher/Kirkpatrick model.
Let's hope if Senator Clinton does announce a run for president she embraces her inner DFH, or at least, her inner Nancy Pelosi, leaving the Kirkpatrick model long behind. I wish Ambassador Kirkpatrick's family well in their time of loss, but for Americans, it's time to bury the Henry Higgins notion that a woman in national leadership should simply be more like a man. We need now to allow for more ways women can relate to others and to their gender identities when operating as national leaders. Women, as women, are not weak. It's time.
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Telegasbags need pricking.
“Out damned spot. Out I say.”
The Pelosi model will gain more and more with greater press attention for her. That’s a model in keeping with all those moms that sons call for in times of triumph and despair. In foxholes, on the sidelines of football games. Real men recognize the linchpin…of families, of nations.
Faux men are in their comfort zone with either strident Coultergeist types or fauning O’Beirnes.
Pachacutec!
There will be non-stop Swift-boating of Pelosi from the minute she takes up the gavel:
Fair is foul, and foul is fair:
Hover through the fog and filthy air.
Act I, sec. 1
Well said Pach.
extraordinarily accomplished woman, of incisive wit and remarkable influence.
I guess this is what seperates progressives from conservatives. A progressive writer can praise jeane kirkpatrick after her death without mentioning who and what she used her extrodianry accomplishments, incisive wit and remarkable influence to advance.
Nicely said, Pach.
Oh, and my condolences to the Kirkpatrick family. : (
Pach!
Thanks for your insight and your great post.
My heart goes out to anyone who has lost a partner, mother, grandmother, loved one….
no matter how evil the deeds and acts of the dearly departed were…
no matter how many murders and tortures the departed excused - and thus abetted.
I sincerely and without irony respect the grief of Amb. Kirkpatrick’s bereaved.
And I look forward to the post-Hillary world of progressive women Presidents who care about families and human rights -
and know that each requires the other.
Condolences to the Kirkpatrick family.
“May her soul be found behind the Pearly Gates half an hour before the Devil knows she’s passed!”
- traditional Irish blessing
Thanks for the post, Pach. I couldn’t agree less with her politics, but she was a bright and powerful woman for all that.
So do I, so do all of us…
Hell, I still can’t get over the fact that as Iraq continues to fall into chaos, her own backyard (NYC) continues to reel from the killing of Sean Bell, and Darfur continues to be ignored…
Hillary talks about violence in video games.
How much more vapid and soulless can one be?
OT: And a hearty “Fuck you, too” to Denny Hastert and His Amazing Zoo Crew. Don’t grope the pages on the way out, boys.
Holy shit! What a whitewash! Not a WORD about Kirkpatrick’s unstinting support for any latin american rightwing dictatorship which would whore itself out to United Fruit, or any other giant U.S. corporation.
Jesus Christ, Pachacutec,couldn’t you have said, upfront, that she was on the wrong side of most of the humanitarian issues of the time she was in politics, but that she was an opinionated woman, and leave it at that?
The fact that you exalt her for being outspoken, to me, seems like a slap in the fact to women.
“It doesn’t matter HOW coldhearted and callous your worldview may be: if you’re a woman, and you shreik it, we’ll speak well of you when you’re gone…”
You can have her. I’ve got $20 bucks that says she’s having dinner in the Sans Souci franchise in hell, with her tablemate, Anastasio Somoza, with a seat reserved for Augusto Pinochet.
OhioTex @ 11
Same here…
I cringe whenever I still hear her words:
“Blame America First”…
She may have not had much respect for us, but hey…
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Again, my condolences to the family.
Didn’t Opus lust after Jeane Kirkpatrick in ‘Bloom County’?
Remarkable timing, Pach, on this post.
I just stumbled on this overview of a study by Stanford’s Dr. Larissa Tiedens in regards to emotion and social status. Amazing. (I’m ignoring the last little bit in regard to religion, but the rest is remarkable.)
Off to hunt down a report by Dr. Tiedens, so I can be completely assured of the bottomline presented in the overview, that anger is a high-status response, and that guilt-shame are a low-status response.
Hence our societal conflict with women in leadership; women are socialized to exhibit guilt and shame, not anger and frustration, and men are socialized to expect this from women. When women are angry and frustrated, as persons in upper level management or high status roles might normally be in conflict, they are outside of socialized norms.
Which I personally find to be utter and complete bullsh*t.
John Bolton isn’t fit to carry Jeane Kirkpatrick’s jock strap.
punaise @ 18
the walrus rotted out his dentures?
ewwwww!
Tanbark @ 14
When the battles are done and a Warrior falls, even their opponents can be gracious and humane in their respect for the Warrior that we fought. It’s attitudes like yours that have poisoned political discourse, this no limits to the partisanship vibe is dishonorable. She was an Ambassador of the United States of America, and though you and I might not have liked how she conducted the peoples business, we owe her the respect that an office such as hers is due. Would you say the same about Madeleine Albright? Would you be pissed if a wingnut said the same things you said about her?
Tanbark @ 14
Yes, she was a war criminal. She was a part of some of the worst human rights abuses of our time…
But, she was a human being as well…
Let’s at least wait until she’s buried before we begin spitting on her grave.
Tanbark @ 14
Totally agree with this. Kirkpatrick did her best to turn Latin America into the Vietnam of the 1980s (or the Iraq of the 1980s, for you young ‘uns). I don’t know if she was a horrible person, but I do know that what she advocated was destructive and awful, and it ruined millions of lives. And I do know that she wouldn’t be elegized by the left this way if she had a Y chromosome.
Phyllis Schlafly is 82 — are you going to pay her these compliments when she passes away? Kirkpatrick killed a lot more people than her.
You can almost feel the telegasbags of the world…
Did somebody say David S. Broder?
David S. Broder: perhaps because of the reputation they bring with them to Washington. Reagan was the Gipper, the straight-talking cowboy conservative. Bush was as he often said, “a plain-spoken fella..” Clinton had been nicknamed Slick Willie–a name I never used–long before he ever set foot in Washington.
Yeah, right Dean. Suck down another cocktail weenie.
Washington, D.C.: Something that seems to be missing from the discussion on ISG is that none of its members had publicly opposed the decision to go to war. I believe that is a serious omission and calling the group bipartisan is very disingenuous. Even if some Democrats supported the war, half of the Democratic Congressmen and a significant minority of Senators delegation opposed it. So, it probably should be called ISG by THE party that once supported the war.
David S. Broder: As far as I can judge, the makeup of the group adds to the force of its recommendations. These are people looking at a realistic assessment of a policy they once supported but that has gone way off tracks. This has to bee my last answer today. I’ve enjoyed the chat.
Realistic assessment person = war-loving, cocktail-weenie sucking, Beltway insider. Like the Dean.
(Yeah, I will send this to Bob. But I’m sure he’s all over it.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 20
Well said, Fini. She was a human being, after all. She left behind family members. Let’s let them grieve. Let’s allow for a moment of civility…
And that includes me…
Sorry about making another snide Hillary remark…
I don’t like much of what she’s been doing either, but…
I won’t go there now.
Tanbark @ 14
I’d go ahead and pee in the soup…like those fuckers are gonna leave a tip any way.
Digby hits it out of the park tonight: “Secretaries of Deference”:
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
and it says a lot, too, about the deference given to war criminals such as Kirkpatrick who are seen as insiders in their insular beltway society of right-thinkers.
Well, you all know me. The knock on me has always been I’m too conciliatory. Heh.
Her policies were vile and murderous. I evoked Lady MacBeth for a reason. But I did lighten up a little on the day of her death, out of simple courtesy to her family.
Still, my point was not to review her legacy, but to examine the kinds of feminine roles we will countenance - and reject - in national leadership.
Pach: You rock.
Thank you for these words.
Actually, it’s Latin American dictators like Pinochet and Videla who have poisoined our discourse by killing democracy and its proponents, and their good friends like Kirkpartick and Bolton by hoping to emulate them in the U.S.
I will say that’s it’s fortunate for Ms. Kirkpatrick that there is no such place as hell. Only the places we build here and now.
Good. Riddance.
well, lamenting the loss of this agent of death is a family affair.
for those of us with progressive, anti-fascist friends in latin amerika, we wish that she had been terminated with extreme prejudice thirty years ago.
savvy?
Wow. Haven’t found the original paper yet, but Tieden’s work is cited in other juicy papers that tackle the issue of power, social status and display of human emotion.
We definitely have our work cut out for us.
Has there been a passing of a male counterpart of Kirkpatrick’s generation in the recent past, where we could look at public reaction to their passing?
Specifically, these words:
“We need now to allow for more ways women can relate to others and to their gender identities when operating as national leaders. Women, as women, are not weak. It’s time.”
HeavyJ @ 29
Yes, they were horrible. Yes, we must never forget the crimes that Reagan and Kirkpatrick perpetrated upon the people of Latin America…
But, come on…
Even prisoners who die while incarcerated get a funeral, and the family still grieves.
Let’s let the Kirkpatrick family grieve.
Jeepers. We have a rather unusual number of new
posterscommenters this evening…is it the topic, the subjects to which it refers, or something else?edit: oops!
albertchampion @
30
Capiche.
Long time no see, albertchampion.
Rayne @ 33
I can’t speak for others, but after more than a year of lurking, I’ve starting putting my toe into the water on some of the posts when I’m online.
OhioTex @ 34
Me, too.
OhioTex — I’d noticed, have seen you posting recently. It’s a good thing, welcome to the Lake.
It just seems odd when we have fresh topics not previously covered that so many new “faces” emerge, and some of them tersely ad hominem rather than constructive.
Rayne @ 36
Thanks!
I’d like to stick around, but I have a 6 am flight from Columbus to NYC tomorrow. Off to the big city!
One of the last things Kirkpatrick accomplished was to interfere again with big money and influence (backing the most far-right candidate, of course) in Nicaragua’s presidential election a few weeks ago. Ortega won.
Perhaps Pachacutec’s intention was to stimulate lively commentary by omitting Kirkpatrick’s hard right tilt from her FDL obit. He knew that more than a few would point out the misdeeds of Mean Jean I.
I concur with with Tanbark and fartsinsleep.
dwwenz — nice to see you, too, glad you’ve “surfaced”. I see now that you’ve been growing more comfortable with commenting here, good for you!
I’m no big fan of Jeane Kirkpatrick. But she loved San Francisco. Almost as much as Bill O’Reilly:
“When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don’t blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first.”
albertchampion @ 29
Speak for yourself - if anyone.
I’ve oodles of progressive friends in Latin America.
One is a physician who was a core founder of the New Orleans Common Ground Clinic - he’s just returning from meeting with the indigenous anti-imperialists in Chiapas.
Neither he nor any of my other hundreds of progressive/radical friends and colleagues advocate assassination.
We cannot dismantle the Owners’ homes with the Owners’ tools…
without ourselves becoming the Owners.
I choose to be neither New nor Old Boss, and to utterly reject both
- and their servants.
I think there’s more than a few new folks, who are welcome to their opinions of course, who don’t understand quite yet that while we are partisan as hell in our battles here at the Lake we also operate under Samurai Code of conduct as well. Always respect the Warrior you do battle with, for he or she is doing the same job as you.
Kirk! (patrick) he he
Rayne @ 41
Thanks, Rayne. I also hail from Columbus. I am very comfortable at FDL. In large measure, my comfort is because of individuals like you.
Maybe I need to be a bit more obvious about this.
If Kirkpatrick had been a man, would we bash this person on the day of their passing, or at least wait 24 hours?
Would we make ad hominem comments about anyone posting about the nature of the deceased’s identity in relationship to their power, or would we address the topic itself?
OhioTex, dwwenz — coolness! I lived in Gahanna as a child, had friends and family in Toledo and Dayton-Troy-Cincy area, have great fondness for Ohio.
Still remember trips to Circleville for pumpkins.
Rayne @ 47
Be even more obvious. Replace the rhetorical question with an assertion. I think it’s a good topic.
Balrog @ 16
It was Bill the Cat, not Opus…
atdnext @
33
Hmmm. I haven’t gone against the grain for awhile, but strap in (not on, Pamela).
When severely icky people die, I refuse to grieve for them. While I agree that their families are entitled to peace during the grief process, I feel no need to provide them with bullshit platitudes should they happen to arrive here (as if).
Those who fail to learn from the the mistakes blah blah blah. Let no Google user ever stumble across the kind words of Better People (us) that may gloss over history.
God, I’m a pompass ass tonight.
Rayne @ 47
This is not an easy question to answer, in part because of the many depraved men in power.
Janeane The Acerbic Goblin @ 50
Janeane! From the depths of lurkdom!
You are right. Thanks, and stay up here. We need more people my age. Uh, I mean like you!
Ed*ard Teller @ 42
This is interesting. Do we progressive types tend to look at our own possible failings where as
authoritarianRepublicans tend to blame others outright. [/snark]Pach - Last night you played referee quite well. Watching you dance around the ring prepared for the rope a dope was a bit fun for this fired up pup. (and I despise boxing)
Tonight you must have put on padding just in case. *s*
If you can’t say something nice.
She spoke English well.
I know no more about Jeane Kirkpatric than I’ve learned just today. Back in her heyday, I wasn’t paying attention to a whole hell of a lot.
But, every woman is someone’s daughter, many or most or somebody’s mother, grandmother, sister….
May she have, today, moved to a place of Peace and Enlightenment.
balrog @ 51 - here here.
neil @
45
a perfectly good-natured “pfffft” :0}
(or other Ribes sp. onomotopoea…
perhpas the gentle readers have other idaeus?)
I have read through the posts several times and I have to agree with tanbark and others. The Jeane Kirkpatricks, Henry the K, Negraponte, Bolton, Rice on and on …The poison and corruption of these people just accumulates and kills more people unless we call bullshit at every chance. I’m going to vomit when Henry the War Kriminal gets a state funeral.
I get very worried when the Dems talk about being nice. The scheduled Senate closed door session to make nice with the people who are trying to subvert the Constitution, is sickening
What’s a DFH?
Eureka Springs, AR @ 57
Thanks for agreeing that I’m a pompass ass tonight. ;)
I looked around the web this past half hour and couldn’t find any sites called “The Wit and Humor of Jeane Kirkpatrick.”
pogo @
60
I was about to ask the same question.
All the Cold Warriors who behaved abominably are having to now deal with the consequences of their actions on Earth as they enter the afterlife or pass into nothingness or whatever belief system you adhere to. I will continue to honor the human being that passed so as not to stain my karma. Feel free to piss on your own souls in the name of mere political partisanship. That is entirely on you, as her actions in life are on her soul.
What on earth are you talking about Pach? This woman was the embodimenmt of evil, personally responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent people. I can only hope her death was prolonged and painful.
Women, as women, are not weak. It’s time.
It may be true that it’s time for a woman to be president, but sHillary is not the vehicle. sHillary, like Bill, is a snake-oil salesperson, but she is not as smooth as Bill was.
I can think of a few women over the last few decades that I would have preferred to be president–that I would have preferred not only over sHillary, but also most men who sought the office over the same time period.
Balrog @ 50
No, you’re being honest…
And I totally understand how you feel.
And if you notice, I’m not providing bullshit platitudes…
I’m just trying to hold my tongue.
Nice to see you at the ‘Lake, balrog! : )
balrog - not that part unless I am as well and that of course is a possibility I can sleep with.
Steve said -
Tell me more, please. I haven’t heard about this?
Let’s not.
I’m not so sure about that.
@ 66..Read it and weep..
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....t_meetings
atdnext @
67
Ack! atd, I wasn’t suggesting that you were. My point was general in nature; you are without reproach in my book.
“Ding Dong The Witch is dead.
Which old Witch?
The Wicked Witch!
Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead.
Wake up -you sleepy head,
rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Wicked Witch is dead.
She’s gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below.
Yo-ho,
let’s open up and sing
and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong’ the merry-oh,
sing it high,
sing it low.
Let them know
The Wicked Witch is dead!”
“it’s time to bury the Henry Higgins notion that a woman in national leadership should simply be more like a man”.
If being more like a man, you mean the fake image of the testosterone dripping outdoors type/Marlboro man that pervades most male political personas, why limit this change to only women?
If Barack Obama looked like Denis Kucinich he would never have become Senator.
David Ehrenstein @ 73
RIP Lynne Cheney. Michelle Malkin. Ann Coulter. Laura Ingraham.
Wait, who died?
Sondheim put it best ina number from Anyone Can Whistle unaccountably cut out of town:
“CORA:
Cherchez la femme.
There’s always a woman
To spoil the illusion,
The rotten banana
That ruins the bunch.
There’s always a woman
Who causes confusion.
There’s nothing as low as a woman.
We must lunch.
FAY:
Love to.
CORA:
Noonish?
FAY:
Tomorrow.
CORA:
Today.
FAY:
My place?
CORA:
Mine.
FAY:
There’s always a woman,
The one disappointment.
The note that goes sour
And gums up the tune,
The ant at the picnic,
The fly in the ointment.
There’s nothing so slow as a woman.
Ring me soon!
CORA:
Love to.
FAY:
‘Voir.
CORA:
Leaving?
FAY:
I thought…
CORA:
I know.
FAY:
I tried.
BOTH:
It’s always a woman,
The counterfeit check,
FAY:
The snake in the woodpile,
CORA:
The pain in the neck.
BOTH:
The sand in the oyster
That isn’t a pearl.
There’s nothing as low as a woman…
Darling girl.
CORA:
Pet!
FAY:
Lamb!
CORA:
Dove!
FAY:
Fish.
CORA:
The run in the stocking,
The snag in the zipper,
The weather in London,
The water in France.
It’s always a woman.
It’s Jacqueline the Ripper.
There’s nothing as low as a woman.
Shall we dance?
FAY:
Waltz?
CORA:
Rhumba?
FAY:
Cancan?
CORA:
Tango?
FAY:
Schottische?
CORA:
Gavotte?
FAY:
Cha-cha?
CORA:
Tap?
FAY:
Bolero?
CORA:
Polka?
FAY:
Bridge?
CORA:
Two hearts.
FAY:
Three clubs.
CORA:
I pass.
FAY:
There’s always a woman,
A crimp in the writing,
The hole in the sidewalk,
The gum on the shoe.
She almost looks human-
It must be the lighting.
Whatever it is, it’s a woman.
How are you?
CORA:
Fine.
FAY:
Pity.
BOTH:
It’s always a woman,
FAY:
The hand in the hill,
CORA:
The five dollar diamond,
FAY:
the three-dollar bill.
BOTH:
A genius for trickery
That’s second to none.
There’s nothing as low as a woman.
Isn’t this fun?
CORA:
Lovely.
FAY:
Charming.
CORA:
Delicious.
FAY:
Stunning.
CORA:
Fabulous.
FAY:
Gorgeous.
BOTH:
Exquisite.
CORA, FAY (Alternately):
A knife would be perfect-
A gun would be perfect-
It’s quick and it’s quiet.
At least I could try it.
I hear they do wonders
And you can do wonders
With poisonous gas.
With silvers of glass,
There’s always the quarry-
There’s always curare-
She’d never be found.
I have some around.
A noose is efficient-
Bamboo is efficient-
She won’t make a sound.
As long as it’s ground.
Whatever will do it,
Whatever will do it,
If anything will.
If anything will.
BOTH:
There’s nothing as low as a woman.
CORA:
Sneak.
FAY:
Thief.
CORA:
Cheat.
FAY:
Crook.
CORA:
Frump.
FAY:
Fake.
CORA:
Bore.
FAY:
Bag.
CORA:
Leech.
FAY:
Crone.
CORA:
Witch.
FAY:
Ghoul.
BOTH:
Police!
Shoot to kill”
David Ehrenstein @ 67
How funny it is that on the same day that John Lennon died I am in the presence of the supposed Dirty Fucking Hippies as they behave like hyenas on a fresh kill at the death of a fellow human being (albeit not one of our best) and now dragging her family into the spree. I’m done, goodnight, have mercy on your souls.
David Ehrenstein @ 69
David, I have great respect for your post and your experience.
So I’m assuming the expression is rhetorical.
If we literally do not let the Kirkpatrick family grieve, then we stand aside for hate preachers to disrupt every AIDS funeral - at the homes, services, and burial places.
Universal human rights - derived from common mercy and decency - and Constitutional rights are most sorely tested when extended to the most odious.
Balrog @ 71
Thank you, Balrog! I didn’t think that you were saying that of me…
I just wanted to point out that I was trying to be nice without saying any BS about her. ; )
Kirkpatricks pure evil scared me and terrorized countless others for nothing more than professional gain. I will not greive nor will I forget. I will always speak out about her, in the company of anyone including her family.
Not that I would try to find her family or funeral.
David Ehrenstein is singing the same song I have been since I first read the news this morning.
Ding Dong
Oh Prunella! Bought your “Hillary For President” button early I see.
David Ehrenstein @
76
A bold statement.
**OT**
In what was likely her final legislative act in Congress, outgoing Georgia Rep. Cynthia McKinney introduced a bill Friday to impeach President Bush.
kirk murphy @ 77
Well said, kirk!
As much as we despise her actions, she was a human being, after all!
Let’s let the Kirkpatricks grieve.
Were she alive today she’d squash you like a flea without thinking twice — then order lunch.
GET REAL!!!
Kumbahyah
DavidE—I have been one of your staunchest defenders when some people just didn’t get it…but tonight, you are way over the top.
There are two (at least) discussions going on here. the first, well said by Pachacutec is that the archetype of Lady Macbeth - and waht that represents- is one of the few persona’s a woman can take on to be truly regarded as a power-maker. And Hillary -I have no doubt- looked on the Jeanne Genie and her UN danse macabre as a properly informed way to get power and to JK as a mentor of sorts and someone to emulate. I am not so sure about Pelosi…
The second though is more troubling. Kirkpatrick and Reagan have led us here now. Reagan’s policies (and Kirkpatricks) have destroyed the middle class, enriched the few, started Islamic militarism in a new direction (remember Osama the ‘founding father/patriot’ quote by Reagan), allowed American industrialism to affect the planetary biosphere in a dangerous and very troubling manner, and led to a violent world where civilain casualties are accepted as long as American hegemony is maintained, and this lat point is the most difficult imho because it not only places women, as a gender class seeking equality, in an cruel and unjust position, but endangers all of humanity anywhere at all times.
If there’s any kind of heaven , well I think they’ve got Jeanne Kirkpatrick banned.
David, your use of Sondheim in the context that Pach intended borders on misogyny.
The question of this post is not the relative merits of Kirkpatrick’s works. The topic here is whether, in Kirkpatrick’s passing, American society is ready for women in positions of power, whether they ultimately do good, evil, or both. At the zenith of Kirkpatrick’s political powers, the only women that were tolerated in positions of authority were the models Pach listed, embodied in the likes of Kirkpatrick and Thatcher, to name two. Any exceptions were given short shrift.
Balrog @ 82
I’m not a witch, I’m NOT a witch.
Well, I would say the same truths about any leader who passes that I believed while they lived. I grieve for the good/great ones and keep silent for a bit after the not good/evil ones pass.
It strikes me that too many here in our country admire those that would be aggressive (in war) and strong (in defense) and selfish and unfair beyond belief (in foreign policy).
This does not make America great, compassionate or even good. Emulating and lauding past successes (failures by dominating others in our own self-interests) and looking to that may well be a path to an individual’s or party’s success in politics . It is, to me, not the direction I want to go or the platform that I want to support.
We need a fresh new way forward with a woman, a man, or party that has the guts to stand up for the essence of our country, the rest of the world and the preservation of our planet. I want someone who is not afraid to speak the real truth that war, oppression, empire, racism and theft are just wrong and there is a better way and we must act together to preserve life.
Man or Woman, I judge them on their deeds.
Thanks, angie. Well said.
Thank dog there’s a new thread.
That you would entertain “evil or both” as an option repulses me.
DFH = “Dirty Fucking Hippie.” Internet slang, sarcasm for the way DC insiders think of those of us on the progressive left, and now in the national majority, who think occupying Iraq was Teh Stoopidest Fucking Thing Evah and who think we ought to Get The Fuck Out (Fast!).
angie - beautiful
angie @ 91
Katherine Harris and her implants recieved 35 -40% of the vote from retired old men who enjoyed looking at them.
apple pie @ 88
Bien diche!
I see serious challenges for Hillary; they are bound up in the reasons I cannot support her in the primary.
Hillary has had few women leaders to look to in order to model her own role. Is she conscious of this? Does she see the shortcomings of the role models before her — whether those shortcomings were forced upon those women or no? Or is she building a construct based only on what worked, not on what we need?
Or is she only looking to men for her role models?
Hear hear. Rot in hell Jeanne, you fascist murderer.
Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher, Indira Gandhi, and of course Pat Kingsley.
I think it’s the ultimate in equality to be damned with equal vigor as all the evil men in history. Here’s to women’s rights. Here’s to the equation shifting one notch toward the Good with the passing of this evil witch. Here’s hoping Hank K. and many of their old guard join her soon.
CL
Interesting question: which came first, power or misogyny?
I view things thru the power/money lens first, although I am as aware as anyone about the misogyny. The drive to power is hardwired into everybody’s lizard brain.
Thatcher and Kirkpatrick are allowed their hour upon the stage because, like Reagan and Bush, they serve the powers that be.
Pelosi is going to be swift-boated because she may actually care about working folks and (gasp!) want to do something about it - she couldn’t avoid the coming smears even if she changed her gender. The neo-fascists damn near have everything their way (Constitution is in tatters, with stooge judges on the bench) and they aren’t going to back down this close to victory.
Having said that,the swift boating will be even uglier because misogyny is a Repug tool. They actually believe women ‘have their place’ so they think they are right to put Pelosi in hers.
In a perverse way, conservative women prove gender equality. We already know men can be pompous greedheads - there are women equal to the task.
David 101 — do you really think that FOUR women is an adequate number of role models?
What if all of the role models that are available to women like Hillary are women like Kirkpatrick and the list you cite?
Will it be Hillary’s fault alone, or will it be the society that smothers women who are iconoclasts that reject the models that society permitted?
I reserve comment about Kirkpatrick’s specific deeds for now — but I do not have the same reservations about the society that encouraged and supported her role. Kirkpatrick did not become what she was on her own, in a vacuum, any more than Reagan became what he was.
Rick Perlstein’s text “Before the Storm” surely explained there was a culture that created these people.
That list was just off the top of my head.
That’s the liberal version of “Hate the sin, love the sinner.”
As “Conservatives” love to say it was her choice to be as she was.
Rayne-
I grew up and spent years of my adult life in Little Rock. I have watched and listened to Hillary (in person) since I was a small child.
A few of the women I am thinking of who have certainly served as role models for Hillary were members of the Womens Emergency Committee during the Central High School crisis with the Little Rock Nine. They would never ever compromise on issues regarding civil liberties and human unjustice as we have watched Hillary do over the last few years. They never tried to rise up in politics like she has but Hillary has compromised herself out of spirit. Nothing feels sacred with her anymore.
Interesting questions but a bit moot at this point for me because she is obviously considering to many compromises sacrificing the good of the people while stuffing the coffers of her campaign war chest. The tough person stands up and against this war, for example. She is a model for what women (or men) don’t want to be or do unless Lieber-heights are what will satisfy them.
It’s a shame because she really could be a force for a great change with the values I thought she had for so many years.
Frankly a woman has a far better chance for President than most people are willing to admit, imo.
If Hillary or many other women equal to her level of intellect would be as open (in her own words and views) as Feingold, she would be a shoe in, in this climate.
While I am at it…..Joycelynn Elders for President!!!
Jeanne Kirkpatrick is dead?
I say - stuff her mouth full of garlic, drive a stake through her heart, and bury her face down in a deep, dark hole.
You can never too sure with these people.
Ehrenstein, surely you haven’t forgotten what it’s like to be a minority group, or how little minority folks are really allowed to choose and shape, particularly in the echelons of power.
Otherwise Pach would have been writing about a gay person of less-than-distinguished credentials, and how an out-of-the-closet gay’s potential leadership may be affected by society’s intolerance towards them.
Spend all the time you want bashing Kirkpatrick and blame her solely — but no openly gay person is going to reach her level in terms of rank without addressing the issues that permitted her to attain her rank in spite of society’s hostility to her gender. She THOUGHT she had choices, just as you think you do.
Eureka Springs AR — how many of the women from the Womens Emergency Committee ever made it to a statewide office? to a national office? were they appointed or elected if they did?
It’s all well and good to say she had role models back home, but she’s playing in the big leagues now, where very few women have ever played before. Christ, we still don’t have 20 women in the Senate, and she’s one of them — in spite of women representing more than 50% of the population.
People in this thread aren’t even grokking the question about women and power because it’s so damned foreign to them. That’s because this country still doesn’t tolerate women in positions of power.
Respectfully, I’d have to say that the Womens Emergency Committee may have some power in AR, but not enough clout where it counts. Let me know when AR gets a woman governor; AR may already have a woman Senator, but for crying out loud, we’re talking about Blanche Lincoln. Hillary won’t be using her as a model; she’s more likely modeling herself after Goldwater, having been a Goldwater Girl.
Women are not a minority. They are the majority population.
You mean like THIS Dude?
Your point?
I think no such thing.
Tears spent for Jeane Kirkpatrick? Am I missing something? Uber hawk, cold warrior on crack, apologist for death squads, so long as they are attached to authoritarian as opposed to totalitarian governments… Good riddance!
David Ehrenstein @ 65
I couldn’t agree more, David. It’s really disturbing to read this whitewashed account of a true monster, wrapped in a supposed lament over gender politics. Pach, don’t you know who she was and what she did? Read some history, for god’s sake. Reserve your hand-wringing and “civility” for somebody who deserves it. She was not a “noble Samurai” who deserves any respect in life or death.
One of the last of the great Democrats, before the Democratic party went off the rails and became the
“blame America first” party.
Yah. Sure. Women may represent more than 51% of the people, but they sure aren’t treated like a majority; they are systematically marginalized and your use of anti-woman themes to address the shortcomings of a single woman don’t help.
And Roy Cohn? Really now. Never would have been elected to office, and his sexuality was certainly in question, never open to the general public in the way that a woman’s gender is open. Could someone like Cohn get elected to a national office today? Are there sufficient successful American role models for an openly gay leaders? Or could gay candidates potentially be compared to Roy Cohn in an effort to suppress their candidacy?
That is the point.
In my book the “true monster” is Jimmy Carter.
Pach, if you’re still around, it’s pretty obvious there’s a problem, and it’s big. They can’t separate one woman from women, can’t separate the gender from history, can’t see the forest for the trees.
Hillary has a snowball’s chance in hell, and for reasons that have little to do with her positions on issues.
Jose Chung @ 112
Coward boy Jose, here on FDL. Wonders? Cease?
Rayne @ 108
You would probably find this group of women very interesting. They are all gone now.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t.....2rGhlFobQg
Obviously she has no female peers in which she may use as a role model. She must draw, as anyone, from all sources in which she admires or aspires to lead by some day. At least folks understood what Goldwaters views were and could count on him to stick with them. I don’t know any other word than (strength of) character that will best describe what I expect from her or anyone who will get my vote. Triangulation is not an acceptable charcteristic, I think we both agree on that.
I think the question itself tends to do exactly what we are hoping to eliminate. Seperates men and women. All of us need to draw from the pool of knowledge and wisdom wherever possible.
Honestly I don’t think of a candidates color or sex first so perhaps it’s why I have difficulty accepting the premise or for that matter want to in my daily life. I assume the position of acceptance in all people for what they do not who they are, superficially speaking. Of course many don’t do this but it’s their loss and they will get it eventually. I really believe a woman with strong leadership qualities and a progressive platform will win votes. We just need to find her and get her to step up. The mystery of that is true for either sex, imo.
It’s about the issues, standing up for them in an open and honest way. I want to be able to count on that person to stick with their guns not bait and switch or triangulate their way out of them.
Look at what Hillary is doing assuming the position, identifing her core fund raisers as well as other key players in NY. She is recieving compliments as well as overwhelming support in her state. She is a role model in many, many ways. (unfortunately for progressives)
Thanks for your patience with me on this. I really value your thoughts on so many ripples in the lake.
Wonderful piece. If only it were an op-ed in the WaPo, where the punditocracy would read it.
RubDMC @ 107
I wrote something substantially similar at Alicublog a little while ago. Please believe me, it’s a “Great minds think alike” situation and not me stealing your (outstanding) response.
Needless to say, that puts me with the To Hell With Her Brigade™ I had the same reaction when Strom Thurmond died, when Reagan died and when Pinochet almost pulled down the curtain and joined the choir invisible (I have hope on that front, still.) These people weren’t my adversaries, my fellow warriors or my mistaken friends. These people were my enemies, the enemies of all the people who read this site, and they acted as such.
Could someone please explain how those of us who refuse to forget her cozying up to, and providing succor for, so many dictators…for lying about raped and murdered nuns…for mercilessly slandering every one of us who were Democrats in 1984, are interfering in her family’s grief? Did they all log on to see what we would write, hoping for kind words? I rather doubt it.
They are entitled to their private grief. I wouldn’t accost any of them on the street over this or make a demonstration at her funeral, but I’ll be Goddamned if I sit on my hands and act like she was some sort of feminist icon, or that her unspeakable public career is illustrative of anything more than her bottomless evil, out of some misguided sense of civility. People like her scrubbed civility and common human decency out of the system. They made it their very life’s work. Reap, sow…all that fun stuff.
The only thing she has in common with Lady MacBeth is an inability to ever get all that blood off of her claws.
pach,
again, thanks for your trenchant, spot on, post. almost always i learn something from your writing. i feel like i gain some better perspective or have an “aha” moment when i read your point of view. the punditocracy would do well to “humble” themselves and consider carefully what you have to say. i won’t hold my breath though ……
Using mean jean’s death as a platform to speak about the iron women in politics and offer some sort of condolence is creepy.
That women should have been tried for crimes against humanity. She has bllod dripping from her hands. I do not believe in capital punishment but the death of these evil people is a moment for the people to rejoice. She obviously had not a stitch of humanity in her. For being a relative of such a monster might inspire sympathy, but not for her departure from THIS world.
her death came decades too late for thousands of people in latin America and around the world whose lives were snuffed out by those who executed her fascist musderous policies.
If there is a hell… she deserves to remain there for eternity.
You are way too kind to this very terrible woman. Jane Kirkpatrick was the architect of the US intervention in Central America in the 1980’s, which led to the US proxy wars in Nicaragua, El Salvador and, especially, Guatemala, where 100,000 people, mostly Maya Indians, were systematically exterminated. Her mantra that insurgency breeds poverty and not all the way around gave Reagan and his band of Iran-Contra criminals the philosophical ammo to fan the flames of conflicts that left hundreds of thousands of dead, mostly innocent civilians, in that poverty-stricken region. RIP, Jane Kirkpatrick, and good riddance.
Roy cohn’s sexuality was as obvious as Liberace’s! Obviously you’re unaware of the grand european tour he and his boytoy G. David Schine made. Burroughs parodied them in Naked Lunch. And Gore Vidal once quipped that around the beltway those in the know used to sing “Come Cohn or Come Schine.”
Mark Foley, David Drier, Lindsay Graham — the list goes on and on.
Here’s a role model for you.
Put me in the “You Are Way to Kind to this very Terrible Woman” corner. I have a Salvadorean friend who found his father’s severed head on the proch one morning thanks to this “accomplished” woman and her ilk.
If feeling bad about her death is unacceptable, can someone please let me know how many days must pass before we can speak the truth?
Jeane Kirkpatrick was a very cruel woman. What I know about her is partially her act on the national stage, but as an active member of the DFL in Minnesota, I also knew her when she was an enforcer in the DFL party in the late 1950’s and most of the 60’s. In fact when we finally got our chance (we progressives), I was part of the slate that ran against her slate in my precinct caucus in 1968 as part of the Gene McCarthy camp, and I beat her. And yes, the Issue was the Vietnam War, Johnson and all the rest. But it was also very personal, because the Kirkpatrick’s were part of the group behind Hubert, the group that would buy anything for the sake of Humphrey, (even a war), and in such a situation you take down your opponent. In fact Jeane became a member of the original neo-con group shortly after we defeated her wing of the party, and from there she went on to the Greater Glory of the Republican Party.
Evron Kirkpatrick was a U of Minnesota Political Science Professor who essentially found and mentored Hubert in the 1930’s. He was a quite small man with a milktoast personality, but he was also of some prestige in the Discipline. (Yale in the early 30’s). He has been dead for some years. Jeane was essentially a stay-at-home mom who used her momma time to get her PhD in Poli Sci, work for Hubert, and learn the skills of cat-fighting political enforcer inside the party. She was an anti-Stalinist who adopted Stalinist methods. She had been sympathetic to Joe McCarthyism in the 50’s — and kept up her war well into the 60’s — in fact in 1968 she accused those of us supporting Gene of being unreconstructed Stalinists.
Jeane Kirkpatrick was anything but a Feminist. It was in about this period that some of us in the party started wondering why we only had one woman in the state legislature, and none on city council, and women hardly had a fair shot at party offices. Women were expected to run campaigns from behind the scenes, lick the envelopes, and not have issues. Jeane, of course, as a hard line anti-Stalinist could have them — but no one else. The year our slate defeated her slate was also the year we put in the platform equal representation for women in party offices. I particularly remember a cat fight she had on a convention floor with our one and only woman State Legislature that was particularly bloody. Jeane’s style was to have these fights, and then go out and undercut the opponent — in this case, she worked against the Legislator in the fall election. I am fairly certain Karl Rove picked up some of his tactics from her.
When Evron and Jeane went to DC and she began to play on the national scene, virtually everyone I knew just said, Thank God — we’re rid of her. In fact the DFL won both houses of the Legislature after they left, and we no longer had Jeane as the Ideological Enforcer doing damage to our candidates. And yep, we elected good progressives, and in the 70’s and 80’s did good progressive politics. A few years ago she was in town for a speech, and in an interview ripped Wellstone from one end to the other — she had seen this Ideological tendency back in the 60’s and the bad Wellstone was it in full flower. (I rather expect our decision to elect Keith Ellison to what had formerly been “her” seat in Congress would have made her last days quite a burden.)
klyde @
7
Well, expel me from the progressive ranks - it won’t be the first time. This awful woman and her equally awful master - Reagan - were the architects of mass crimes in Central America.
The wicked witch of the east is dead. Well dead.
Ah, somebody deleted my negative comment about Hillary from last night. I guess we know where this blog is going.
raj - See you at number 66…..
Jean Kirkpatrick’s intellectual confusion about the occurence of instructive consequences was based on a misguided hubris born of righteousness.
Her disingenuous use of semantics to turn arrogance into ‘confidence’ inspired an entire generation of neoconservatives to disingenuously justify ungracious choices for others based on confidence in our nation’s righteousness. She also rejected responsibility for circumstances and assigned blame wherever she could so as to justify her sense of righteousness. Generations of Americans will bear the brunt of her misguided and misinformed notions. She empowered the most ungracious president to ever hold elected office in this nation to entangle this nation in a nest of catastrophic instructive consequences. While her friends and family may be saddened by her demise, no comments about this woman should end without the words, “Ding, dong, the witch is dead. Which old witch? The wicked witch. Ding, dong, the wicked witch is dead.”