Atrios linked to this article yesterday, but by skipping to its conclusion he cut short Newsweek columnist Christopher Dickey's all-too-realistic take on the hard truths the Baker-Hamilton Iraq Study Group ignored in its recently released report:
Every day we move closer to the edge of a humanitarian abyss. Think the Balkans, Rwanda or Darfur, but with this grim difference: the United States won’t be able to stand back from the slaughter and wring its hands in Iraq. It is implicated up to its elbows already, and there’s more to come. Attempts to hold Iraq together by political compromise have failed. If the Americans stay there in any way, shape or form, they’re going to have to choose sides, backing Iraqi “friends” who will do whatever they think is necessary to impose order.
That was the not-so-coded message from the leader of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, shortly after he met with President Bush in the White House on Monday. (Yes, you read the name of his organization right. Hakim’s goal is quite explicitly “the Islamic Revolution in Iraq,” but, hey, America finds its friends where it can in Baghdad these days.)
. . . It’s obvious to Hakim that to prevent a civil war, you wipe out the present and potential combatants on the other side. He labels those as Al Qaeda (a small group, despite its penchant for spectacular terror), Takfiris and Baathists, which could mean a very wide range of Sunnis. . . .
. . . Anyone who sifts the platitudes of this Islamic revolutionary can see his vision of Iraq’s democratic future is for rule by a Shiite majority that answers to clerical guidance. Uninvited (meaning Jordanian, Turkish, Kuwaiti, Syrian or Saudi) outsiders will be excluded while security cooperation with friends—meaning Iran—is encouraged. Hakim says his organization is legal, and its militias have been integrated into (others would say taken over) government units. Illegal militias, as defined in an order signed by U.S. proconsul Paul Bremer shortly before he left Iraq in 2004, are to be done away with.
That would include especially those of Hakim’s rival warlord, Moqtada al-Sadr. As a Hakim supporter in the government told me privately the other day, "Moqtada should be behind bars, underground or across the border—those are the three options he has—and a fourth one is for him to behave. The U.S. doesn't need to tackle him. They don't need to do the dirty work. We will do the dirty work. They should stay over the horizon."
. . . The essential point is that Iraqis on all sides of the divide think they know precisely what an effective counterinsurgency campaign looks like, and it’s not the relatively fastidious one the U.S. would have them wage. “The Iraqis under Saddam [Hussein] were world champions at counterinsurgency,” notes [military historian Martin] Van Creveld. The former dictator has been standing trial, and already has received one death sentence, for doing what he thought needed to be done to crush rebellions by Shiites and Kurds—and it worked. Now the United States has turned the tables, the former victims don’t want to be held back. “Maybe they are not trained in the American sense, but they are very well trained to do what they have to do in Iraq,” said Van Creveld.
And if you don't believe Van Creveld, just drop by the morque in Baghdad and ask to see some of the bodies with drill holes in them. The sad fact is that when the ISG described the situation in Iraq as "grave and deteriorating," they were being Pollyannas.
Dickey concludes:
The sad fact is that insurgencies are defeated only rarely, and then by imposing the peace of the grave on hundreds of thousands if not millions of people. How much more can Washington let itself be implicated in such carnage? How far over the horizon do American troops need to pull back to escape the stench of such a victory? One answer: all the way home.
Here, I think Dickey is being a Pollyanna as well. Even if all American troops were withdrawn tomorrow, we wouldn't escape responsibility for the nightmare our country set in motion. Even worse, as Joe Wilson expressed with pained eloquence earlier this week, a complete U.S. abdication of responsibility would invite neighboring countries who find a Shiite government unacceptable to step into the vacuum we've left, leading Iran to escalate its own involvement — and suddenly one country's hellish civil war could turn into a regional firestorm.
But how can the U.S. military hold off that catastrophe, when staying in Iraq — not only sacrificing American lives, but contributing to the carnage — is just as morally reprehensible as abandoning Iraq and its neighbors to their fate? Asking the question directly explains why the Baker boys chose not to try answering it.
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Swopa!
ooh, another zed notch carved into the keyboard.
It’s beginning to look, well, serrated.
oh, and working *all* day is way over-rated.
a bit lonely here….
It’s hard to understand. I thought a cheerful post like this would be a natural conversation starter.
That was the not-so-coded message from the leader of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, shortly after he met with President Bush in the White House on Monday.
“Not-so-coded”? Something like that sounds to be still too complicated for the Deciderer.
See, you’re making too much sense. I’m a natural conversation starter. I say something inevitably stupid, and, bam, a conversation is off and running.
speaking of running – got to- back in a bit.
jayt @ 5
I suppose that’s why Hakim looked like a poker player counting his winnings after his meeting with Dubya the other day.
Thank you, Swopa.
I just found this in The Guardian regarding the growing refugee crisis in Iraq:
Very scary, indeed.
Swopa — sobering does not begin to describe this. Getting up every day and taking a peek at the news is so painful these days, isn’t it? Thanks much for the post, though — this needs MUCH more discussion.
And meanwhile Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman obsess over violence in video games.
Words fail me.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..35786.html
Are we as a country ashamed of ourselves yet?
Troops
Home
NOW
… and I’m stickin’ to it. Someday, soon I hope, this Option #4 will be real.
I have read murmurings of the possibility of the Bushistas “choosing sides”. Wiping out either the Sunnis or the Shia in order to “bring peace”. If these guys weren’t so hellish I’d be more skeptical when I read stuff like that. But, do I think the Bushistas would stop at genocide to salvage their “legacy”? No.
but if I put a yellow ribbon magnet on my SUV, doesn’t that make it all better?
(painfully good post, Swopa)
anyone know how to get some comments from Bob Baer?
He talked at length about the potential we’re now seeing back when Bush I “abandoned” the Shia uprising at the close of the Gulf War and he was on the ground there.
Niggles in the back of my head say his predictions/fears are turning true, one grizzly day at a time…
must visit the library… Baer wrote as well as commented
This administration does photo-ops, not diplomacy. There is no way he could negotiate for a peaceful solution to the ME crisis. He is just not capable.
Perhaps he could look for Britney’s panties like he looked for WMD in Iraq. Nope, not here…
SusanD @ 14
Cheney is saving that nightmare for Iran. Looks like mass relocation will suffice in Iraq.
jeebus.
A full 360 degree FUBAR situation.
Incompetence on the scale of a supernova.
Has Harman made a statement about her powwow with W? Has RGJoe? Are Democrats who meet with the President not accountable to the American people and their party to tell us about this meeting?
Sign in the china shop: “You break it, you buy it.”
We’ve well and truly bought Iraq, and we’re going to be paying for this one for a long, long time.
The ISG members may not have pulled many punches in their news conferences yesterday, but “grave and deteriorating” sugarcoats reality.
Nice post, Swopa, on a sad subject we’ll surely be revisiting over the next 30-50 years.
Bustednuckles, best description I’ve read so far.
what a jerk:
Baker/Hamilton are making the rounds of talk(news)shows seemingly panicked for the recommendations be started immediately. They’re talking ‘in the next few days or weeks at the latest’ or it’ll be too late. They held this report for over a month because of the election. Does it sound like they really care if it gets worse?
I read Dickey most of the time, but of course I do not always agree with what he says. Shoot, I don’t always agree with myself. But Mr. Dickey is right on the money here:
All that might happen … But, no, I don’t think it will. Much more likely is that our dreams in the Middle East a year from now, like this year, last year and the year before, will be nightmares. And that’s true even if by then we’re “winning.”
great terrifying post, swopa
OfT, but I think Frist on CSPAN in his farewell just thanked his Tennessee colleagues Fred Thompson and Mallomar Alexander. Least that’s what I heard and saw.
Can swopa come to the ‘lake more, please, blogmistresses?
I have to agree with Kristinejoy. No one in the Bush Admin has the slightest interest or capacity to negotiate with anyone. I mean how do you negotiate with someone who says ‘we will negotiate when all our demands are met’? It’s classic christianist absolutist mindset. If Bush wasn’t right, why would God choose him to be president? Interesting times, eh?
The solution is an obvious as it is impossible…
Withdraw all US troops from the region, and establish protectorates in Iraq under Syria (western Iraq), Turkey (Kurdistan), and Iran (the rest of the country) with the understanding that “ethnic cleansing” is not an option. (Let Syria and Turkey split the oil revenue from Northern Iraq, and its a done deal.)
Basically, make Iraq as a nation disappear…. Syria, Turkey and Iran all get more land (and oil money), and the problem is “solved”.
Al Gore speaks for me:
I wouldn’t trust James Baker, any more than I would Condoleeza Rice.
If we default, does that mean that China is left holding the bag?
Our grand children’s children will still be paying interest on this debt.
And, since it’s a blood debt, Iraqi children may be holding our paper, and looking to even the balance with the blood ours.
Thanks, as always Swopa.
1. It’s beyond critical that the media hold Bush and the neocons responsible for what has already happened. That has to began now, and I think Justice O’Connor’s polite comments on HARDBALL yesterday could be a springboard. The American people need a narrative to stay invested. I think Baker and the GOP are ready/considering to “throw Junior under the bus,” if he doesn’t implement JB3’s plan, because they want to inoculate the GOP for 2008 against Iraq.
2. The U.S. requesting (or at least raising it as a topic) that Israel return to the ‘67 boundaries is just the kind of surprise, that could jump start the process. Bush won’t go for it, but it’s imho the only “card” of any value, that “we have left to play.”
3. OT, from Mimi Katz over at TNH, “What are the US advisers going to do when the Iraqis with whom they are embedded want to take reprisals, as has become commonplace? Aren’t we asking for more massacres and even fragging of hesitant advisers?”
James Baker’s Apologia
4. Is the Sunni plan in Iraq to control Baghdad and water resources, so as to extort a better deal on oil?
5. Is is oversimplifying to state that in Baghdad, “car bomb” = Sunni attack against Shia and “murdered, tortured, shot in the back of the head at night,” is Shia retaliation by Police death squads?
Bush has looted our treasury, facilitated the decline of the middle class, encouraged predatory lending practices in the credit card, mortgage and student loan industries, has given the keys to the kingdom to big pharma, continues the “war on whatever” and all of this is just in this country. How many have been tortured and killed worldwide by Bush’s insistence to maintain his war of vanity? And he stood in the way of repairing the earth’s warming crisis. In the end this may be the most harmful thing he has done. How can one person screw up the world so badly so quickly? And I do hold him personally responsible since he is the “man” sitting in the oval office. I don’t care how the ISO reads. It has been drawn up by the hubris of the republican party and nothing else. Time is being wasted by the effort spent to understand how it may or may not help. Fuck ‘em. Get the troops out. Do what ever we need to do the help the refuges of Iraq. We owe the world a huge apology.
punaise @ 29
Hey. That’s OK.!!! Gore/Clark?
punaise @ 29
And for all of us! : )
rumi @ 24
How many have died since B/H-ISG started their work in March? And to issue a report that requires immediate implementation because its facts are yesterday’s facts, well, that’s hurry-up-and-wait. But, yes, clearly there’s some urgency. I never thought I’d see Vernon Jordan and Ed Meese on a split-screen, but they were there today. On the same page.
Tremendous amount of effort underway to change one sociopath’s mind. No wonder 41 wept.
The Bush Administration has no concept of ‘Diplomacy”. Remember the remarks about never talking to an enemy?
A mature leader will sit down with his enemys and reach agreements, compromises, that will be for the greater good of the citizens of both countries.
We have had NO diplomacy for 6 years. We broke Iraq, and Poppa Bush’s men can’t put it together again, no matter how much $$$ goes Halliburton’s way, and how many Iraqis and American & Coalition soldiers die.
And to think that this report was intended to soften the blow… It says something about the grimness of the situation.
Cleaning up this mess will take extreme diplomatic skill and still more will die because of this President’s foolish venture.
There is so much Democratic talent out there!
I am a bit surprised Bushco hasn’t abandoned all but the Kurds who sit on the oil and buy out the Turks who already have oil pipelines out of the area. Wouldn’t the Turks be happy to take the money while securing a position in the EU etc?
Bushco would love this because it would probably infuriate Iran and hopefully provoke more conflict with them extending neo
coffersgames for many years.Again, from Fred Kaplan’s piece in Slate:
http://www.slate.com/id/2154990/nav/tap1/
hey guys, on a new laptop, (64 bit dually, 2 gigs memory for those on teh geaky side with me)
Im on some bussiness at teh lost wages nevada, won’t be able to do much reading here at teh lake
too bad, the previous two posts were right up my favorite alley
anyway feingold had it RIGHT ON THE MONEY, man does he know how to talk the way it counts.
I don’t have the quote, I’m almost out of juice, but to the efffect;
“unfortunately, from those that make up this report, not one were among those that advised against invading Iraq…the comclusions they’ve arrived at are correct through observance, but their solutions leave too much to be desired and there is no reason to believe their advice on solving the problem will be any better then the advise they told us getting into the problem”
now, that is ENTIRELY paraphrased, but what he did was amazing.
think progress has another great video asking teh president if he’s in denial
gotz to watch that one.
will pop in here and there but not too much till next week
catch all as I can
Gore wins in ‘08. That would be delicious irony.
Peterr @ 21
From WaPo article, Threats Wrapped in Misunderstandings, the last quote from Anthony Cordesman:
Maybe I’m missing something but where exactly is the big call for withdrawing troops in a meaningful way? It isn’t like some of the Dem plans to start right now for redeployment to outside areas, is it?
All I see for the goal is to pull combat troops in 08 but doesn’t the plan still call for leaving 70,000 troops and actually sending more for training/support? This all depends on conditions as they change, too, which could scrap anyone leaving.
That doesn’t sound like progress.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 42
Sounds like poetic justice to me. : )
Eureka Springs, AR @ 39
Excellent comment. I think this is Bush’s “true north.” AFAIK, this doesn’t promote regional stability, but it certainly is a step forward for the Kurds. Whether it’s sustainable long term is something I don’t know.
atdnext @ 45
gore wins in 08,fixes Iraq, makes the US energy independant, grows the middle class
privatizes all profit haliburton enjoyed from Iraq
privatizes all assets gained by cheney becuase of Iraq
turns around global warming
and last but not least;
learns how to stop singing when he talks on camera
p.lukasiak @ 28
Sorry to disapoint but I lived in Turkey as a kid – My father was US Consul in Istanbul. As much as I love the country, the kurds would never stand to be under Turkish rule and Turkey doesn’t want a new Kurdistan that will insist on annexing some of the Kurdish provences of Turkey. But I do agree that a partition maybe the best option. Saddly little Bushie has to talk with the Iran and Syria and he “doesn’t wanna!!”
Josh Marshall:
Ah, the question:
The path to an answer lies in looking at the question. The US military cannot hold off that catastrophe, because it requires non-military elements as well. That’s what Joe Wilson was pointing to, as is CW:
CW @ 37
Amen!
Of course, in Bush’s book, “diplomat” is a snub, a put down, and an insult of the highest order. Bush comes from the “We don’t need no diplomating, we need to kick some ass” school of international relations.
Bring on some serious voices – Dems and GOPers alike – to shut the boy king up.
We. Are. Fucked. And so is Iraq.
IMHO, US troops in urban areas, in proximity to civilians are a cause of instability.
IMHO, US troops on bases in the desert in Iraq prevent Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia from bringing in tanks, troops and artillery.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 30
Don’t know why you distrust Baker. He was “right” on getting into Iraq, wasn’t he?
See Glenn G on: What rational person would listen to people like James Baker?
Even if he were willing, which he is not, Bush is fundamentally incapable of leading this country to do what it needs to do in the next two years.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 42
Furthermore, (is furthermore a redundant word?) Gore 2008 would be able to effective in a way Gore 2000 never would have. Because of the disaster that is Bush 43, Team Gore would be able to tell the vast rightwing conspiracy to STFU.
Swopa, that’s one scary post!!
Here’s breaking news that’s way off topic, special redmeat for the Plamegate set.
Barbara Comstock, Scooter’s fundraiser, is starting a firm to assist Republicans having legal trouble.
Think Progress has some info:
A little humour for these dark days…
p. lukasiak and John Casper – I guess we are all still wondering what the mission is. *s*
p.lukasiak @ 28
Interesting. Sounds so plausable we might not need many permanent bases. Any speculation as to what the Saudis might think about this?
IMHO The bases are one of the big causes of real anger among the Iraqi population. We need to give those up and that will make a difference in the perception of the Iraqis. Until that is done they will concider us imperialists and we are!!!
BTW great post.
LindaR @ 55
redundand is redundant, there is no “dundant” to “re”
why is there a “nonchalent”? there is no chalent
what does subterfuge mean?..below terfuge?
and of course exterminate and terminate shouldn’t be synonyms
I claim no area expertise, but my recollection from reading the thoughts of those who have such a claim is that Turkey would go to war with the Kurds before they would recognize them as an independent country and may do so even if only granted autonomy. They have their own “Kurdish Problem” and fear secession of that group in favor of accession into Greater Kurdistan. Iran has a similar view as to their own Kurdish population.
scarecrow @ 53
Concise Analysis of the Day Award Co-Winners
jeffreyw @ 60
\
yup got that right
perris @ 59
Don’t forget flammible and inflammible.
perris @ 59
I’m not sure what it means but I am sure most of us are nowhere near being happily gruntled these days.
found the feingold quote from crooks and liars
Topangalib @ 58
Thanks, this makes a great deal of sense and IIRC, Zbigniew Brzezinski has said the same thing. It’s also incredibly expensive to maintain these bases
AFAIK, there are very limited scenarios where both Sunnis and Shia want our military support in Iraq. For example, if Iran intervenes, Sunnis want us to block them. Shia expect us to help them if Sunnis take Baghdad. Given our supply route from Basra, it seems to me, we have to help the Shia as long as we are there. This of course pisses the Sunnis off.
perris @ 47
Ooh, the bigotry of low expectations. ;-)
Alison @
56
OMG, Jane’s gonna have some fun with that one.
I’m having a flashback…
What are we fighting for?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING…
The parallels to Nam are breathtaking…
Rumsfield/McNamara
Texas President LBJ/Junior
The Tet Offensive/sectarian violence
The Domino Theory/The Iraq Theory
Quagmire/quagmire
The only thing missing is taking to the streets
which may occur in early 2007…
Jack
another headscratcher: pundits don’t pun.
in light of the earlier thread about how Bush’s “incompetence” is exactly what conservatives want, isn’t this mess and impending firestorm exactly the Rapture-inducing Armageddon they want? I think the time to pull out all US troops is past. It looks like our troops are more the glue that may, MAY, be able to forestall the firestorm.
punaise @ 70
What do dits do?
The biggest problem with the Vietnam analogy at this point is that it sets an artificial limit on imagining just how bad this is likely to get. It’s more as if the U.S. started in Vietnam and is now doing a hard right turn into Kosovo…except that the potential scale and international repercussions of the carnage greatly exceed those of Kosovo. And…here is the thing the wingnuts will try hardest to deny…it’s all our fault.
OT – The Republican love fest on cspan 2 is simply disgusting.
orcatjf @ 71
I very much doubt that any number of troops would have the ability to forestall anything. Bush and his neocon buddies have called up something they can’t put down. They’ve released the forces of regional history and pissed them off, and they have no idea what that really means.
Here’s what every sane human can agree to about Iraq:
Iraq is a disaster and could easily get worse.
It was a mistake to go in- insufficient planning was done- no downside planning at all was accomplished- and nearly every major decision was both poorly thought through and wrongly executed.
It’s a total fuck up folks- cosmic in it’s blathering stupidity- for centuries it will serve as a mute memorial to human stupidity..
Now- about what to do about it- Well there IS no good thing to do about it..
We need to make sure that the exit from Iraq (and there WILL be an exit from Iraq) doesn’t rival the decision process for going in in terms of stupidity.
orcatjf @ 71
I don’t think that most conservatives buy into the rapture. They are just using it to make more money. When gross amounts of money is your goal you become stupid and sloppy.
TeddySanFran @ 36
No matter which issue we talk about, the worst problems always requre that Bush, or Bush/Rove, or Bush/Cheney change who they are and how they behave. But it’s always Bush.
Consider Glenn G’s article on the Possibilities for restoring habeas corpus rights., or the outrageous conduct of the Department of Justice, including covering up their complicity in murders by one of the Department of Homeland Security’s paid informants (this is a must read). Or the concerns about whether Bush will follow any of the ISG recommendations (assuming they made sense), or fixing the atrocities in the Military Commission Act, or stopping the system of fraud/abuse in military contracting, or . . . The Dems can investigate all they want, and maybe that will bring about reforms or set up the Dems for further gains in 2008. But nothing really gets fixed in a meaningful way until Bush/Cheney/Rice/Rove are all removed from office.
What needs to be done is staring us in the face. And I think we should be reflecting that back to the media and the country, every day.
Sidney Blumenthal at Salon.com:
Not to make light of the post, but, those guys look like the foot klan from Ninja Turtles. Admit it.
adam
Look like something from Trent Lott’s negative file of favorite political events.
rwcole @
81
ROFLMAO
RBG @
68
emptywheel posted about this yesterday too. Why let Bob “gold bars” Luskin have all the fun at ?$600/hr.
Two more years of this madman.
he is THE DEFINITION of a sociopath.
Recent comments have raised the possibility of removing him from office for not being able to perform the duties of President.
A little late on that one.
Still, I believe it is true.
He cannot perform the duties of an
informed President.
He willfully ignores all advice and goes full throttle off the cliff.
If the grownups can’t get through to him with reason, a good slap upside the head may well be coming down the pike.
Even Bush senior is seeing the writing on the wall,George W. Bush has lost it.
The very real possibility of G.W. losing it publicly scares him to death.
Personally, I can’t wait.
Casper–Embrace catastrophe- there’s always money to be made out of it!!
Did anyone expect anything different from JB3? He admitted to the Senate Armed Services Committee today that Chimpy authorized him to speak to the Iranians and that they declined to help.
Iranians last spoke with JB3 to implement October Surprise1.0, the release of the American hostages from Tehran on the day of the Reagan/Bush inauguration.
In 1980.
JB3 has been Presidential consigliere to the Bush oligarchs since well before 1980. And in 2006, Iran said to him, “No, thanks, we’ll take a pass on fixing this one. As is, it serves our interests well.”
So does JB3 get a bonus from Tehran? Or just from Saud?
Troops
Home
NOW
Chris Bowers has a take on this. Read the comments, too.
The White House and ISG goal remains to impose a US friendly government in Iraq and turn over the oil fields to American companies. The lessons of Algeria, Vietnam, Nationalist China….continue to be ignored. The costs of pacification of the Iraqi Muslim tribes are so high in the number deaths, manpower and dollars, American will never be able to afford it.
SusanD @
14
if the bushistas don’t choose the shia it will cost our army and marines one hell of a lot more casualties. they’ve got the numbers and they’ve got the territory our military will have to pass through to get out of iraq. and that’s after we get out of bagdad ….
adam @
80
Some of the most interesting detainments in the GWoT were/are based on the underground ninja pole vaulting terror training ground.
“Jim Baker is always an honest broker,” says former White House Chief of Staff Ken Duberstein. “If he can help the family and help other families, I think he really strikes a twofer.”
Can you believe this s’t!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..2203.shtml
rwcole @ 76
That’s exactly right. At this point, to say that the U.S. forces may be able to do this or might be able to forestall that looks to me like denial. There isn’t always a good answer, and sometimes, the situation is fucked up beyond any answer at all.
Ironically, Bush was partially right back in 2000 when he blathered about troops and nation-building. He was lying and he’s an idiot and he neither really knew nor cared what the words were coming out of his mouth and most of us here always recognized those facts, but he was partially right. Troops don’t build nations, and they never did. At most, troops manage the violence level or clear the playing field while other forces–diplomacy, policy, planning–build nations. In Iraq, managing the violence is off the table, and probably was never really going to be possible in the first place.
This war was a terrible, hopeless, insane idea. We knew it from the start, and we said so, and most Americans and most of our leadership were too stupid or venal to listen. What remains to be seen is how many more troops die before the eventual withdrawal, and how much those of us who knew better have to pay for the idiots’ little joyride.
Bustednuckles @ 84
Well summarized. Junior must have had a good
nights sleep because he was once again defiant today… maybe he is talking to the ghost
of Harry S Truman?
I see Denny the Planet is on cspan2. Not gonna listen.
jeffreyw @ 94
Good move.
Have no insight into whether or not Clusterfuck is closer than usual to “losing it”. He’s always a little on the edge- his face has developed that granite stained visage that is so common among presidents who are fuckin up- cf Richard Millhouse Nixon..
On the other hand- he really doesn’t have much freedom about what he says about Iraq- the whole middle east is hangin on his every word- if he hints “we’re leaving” even with a tiny tic or stammer–the world can change overnight- and not necessarily for the better..
It’s ALWAYS a mistake to put stock in what this man says- he uses words as weapons- not as communication devices- but NOW it’s even sillier to pay any attention to what he’s sayin…watch what he DOES- that’s the only thing that matters–and what we would expect him to do based on history is NOTHING AT ALL.
TSF – Thanks for the must read link.
Clusterfuck- somethin troublin yu? Ya look a little blue- no take that back- ya look a little GRAY today—having a slight case of DEATH?
You are the very soul of cheerful, Swopa.
Clusterfuck- “Yeah I don’t know what it is- I didn’t wake up this mornin and ever since then I’ve been havin trouble breathin- in fact I’m not..But my restin pulse is low- VERY LOW.
Sad day, just heard that one of the soldiers killed yesterday was the son of a nurse in our medical community. Also the anniversary of the death of my husband, he was killed 8 years ago today – need to go home and crawl under the covers.
AP Report: Saudis reportedly funding Iraq Sunnis
Don’t recall the Administration complaining about this, when they mention the Syrians and Iranians funding the “terrorists.”
scarecrow @ 102
That’s because the Saudis are their favorite hardline Muslims in the region, just as the Israelis are their favorite hardline non-Muslims. Wouldn’t surprise me to learn that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld have been betting quatloos on the outcome.
(((Diane))) Take care.
jane hamsher @ 99
Ain’t I, though? And Teddy says he wants more.
I’m worried about him.
Diane @ 101
I am so sorry. After your nap come back for some TRex snark.
new thread
The last part of that newsweek story seems to validate what I’ve been saying for a long time. Moqtada al-Sadr is no saint but he is no Iranian puppet he’s a nationalist who wants a unified iraq free of foreigners, that means the US Iran and Saudi Arabia.
Of course it’s the wanna be ayatollah who owes his life to Iran that the boy king meets with.
Jebus
@ 84..A check list for defining a psychopath: from Wiki
Cleckley defined psychopathy thus:[7]
1. Superficial charm and average intelligence.
2. Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking.
3. Absence of nervousness or neurotic manifestations.
4. Unreliability.
5. Untruthfulness and insincerity.
6. Lack of remorse or shame.
7. Antisocial behavior without apparent compunction.
8. Poor judgement and failure to learn from experience.
9. Pathological egocentricity and incapacity to love.
10. General poverty in major affective reactions.
11. Specific loss of insight.
12. Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations.
13. Fantastic and uninviting behavior with drink, and sometimes without.
14. Suicide threats rarely carried out.
15. Sex life impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated.
16. Failure to follow any life plan.
A psychopath is defined as having no concerns for the feelings of others and a complete disregard for any sense of social obligation. They seem egocentric and lack insight and any sense of responsibility or consequence. Their emotions are thought to be superficial and shallow, if they exist at all. They are considered callous, manipulative, and incapable of forming lasting relationships, let alone of any kind of love.
Diane @ 101
I hope you do get home and under the covers as soon as possbile – big hugs to you and your colleague. Sigb – so very sorry.
Diane @
101
Diane, I am sorry for your loss and your colleague’s loss. Hope this day passes as gently as can be for you.
Steve at 1:03,
I didn’t even have to look it up.
Thanks for doing it for me.
I rest my case.
klyde @ 108
Personally, I don’t think there’s much difference between Hakim and Sadr; they’re both theocratic thugs. They’ve just chosen different routes to the same goal.
Link to NEW THREAD by Taylor Marsh, upstairs.
EvilDrPuma @
51
i agree. and i said that here a year ago.
the least worst thing we can do is to start leaving tomorrow and to not stop leaving until every single american is out of iraq. i say this knowing that our leaving will be very painful for every party concerned. this will be true if we wait until next month or a year from now or ten years from now. it’s not going to get any better. period. it will get worse. we have a huge amount of blood on our hands. we will continue to get more blood on our hands every single day we continue to stay. we can do nothing more that is worthwhile.
I appreciate the hugs, I hesitated to share my sadness, but this is a caring community.
EvilDrPuma @ 103
How I miss Saddam Hussein:
over on Raw Story: Lieberman co-starts group to consult on Iraq… Developing…
twolf1 @ 118
*in my best Eddie Murphy*
Get the fuck outta here!
:-)
scarecrow @
102
Betcha THIS is what BigTime had to tell Abdullah in Riyadh last week: JB3 knows and is gonna rat you out.
Diane @ 101
Sorry for your loss and pain,
Jack
Bay State Librul @
69
Quoth LindaR:
Without America there is no future for Iraq. That is since the government in Iraq is an American government. Once Americal leaves the government can’t stand on it’s own.
santorum’s bye bye speech on cspan 2 now LOL
Olmert: Iraq, Mideast conflict unrelated
Oh really? Is Olmert contradicting our own Condi Rice?
Or what about CIA findings of Palestinian terror groups in Iraq?
Or how about Saddam’s hero status among Palestinians for subsidizing suicide bombers?
Nothing to see, says Olmert, move along.
The Iranians are the big winners of the Bush war in Iraq.
Bush ousted Saddam Hussein and is about to hand Husseins’ head to the Iranians on a platter…something the Iranians couldn’t do during the 1980s.
Bush threw out the Sunni Baathists, whom the Iranian leaders hate, almost as if Bush was listening to the Iranian leaders as they checked each item off their wish list for Iraq.
Bush allowed pro-Iranian leaders to emerge in the new Iraqi government, thus giving the Iranian leaders a major foothold in the post-Saddam Hussein Iraq.
In other words, Bush’s animosity toward Saddam Hussein and anything Baathist in Iraq is equal to the animosity of the Iranian ayatollahs toward Saddam Hussein and anything Baathist in Iraq, thus making for a very strange alliance…of sorts…between George W. Bush and the Iranian ayatollahs.
And the Iranian ayatollahs are taking full advantage of every opportunity George W. Bush has given them in regards to Iraq.
While our soldiers die in Iraq.
While hundreds of thousands of Iraqis die.
While the Iranians gain and exercise more and more influence over the non-Kurdish areas of Iraq, areas in which agents of the Iranian ayatollahs terrorize the Iraqi men, women and children, with their hard-core Islamic Republic crap.
George W. Bush, by starting the war in Iraq, has become nothing more than a pawn of the Iranian ayatollahs, thus making the United States nothing more than a pawn helping the Iranian ayatollahs expand their influence throughout the Middle East.
Heck’uva job, little Georgie. Your daddy, I’m certain, is very proud of you. (Hmmm, now if only your daddy would stop crying).
scarecrow @ 78
Amen and Amen. They all have to be removed and I continue to pray that it is very soon.
I think that scarecrow’s call to make that
a daily proclamation is totally right on. Thanks, scarecrow!
Also regarding the comment about Armageddon, I was appalled by local Sacramento clip on John Doolittle before the election to the effect that it all had to continue precisely to bring on Armageddon and he was siding with that goal. Which made his re-election all the more an offense, however slim the margin; but thank God that at least Pombo is out.
Glad there is FDL and others to continue in the prophetic tradition.