FITZ!

Oh, Fitz, come and take me away…

ReddHedd !!

The Iraq Study Group, the do-nothing Congress, the set-up questions from the media about what is Pelosi’s plan? It is all designed to support the idea that the GOOPERS get to mess up the room and no one calls them to account.
Dems have to be the adults.

Actually, I’m just as glad to see the Dems have control of these budget resolutions. Hopefully, they’ll show much more discipline and focus.

Babington chatz this morning on Kingston:

Arlington, Va.: In today’s Washington Post article about the new 5-day workweek for congreemen, Jack Kingston (R-Ga.) stated “keeping us here eats away at families. Marriages suffer. The Democrats could care less about families – that’s what this says”. Before running for Congress, don’t most Congressmen think about how working in Washington would effect their families? Do you think his whining about having to put in a full week will be well received by his constituents in Georgia?

Charles Babington: I think Mr. Kingston wins re-election in his Georgia district by comfortable margins. I doubt his remarks will change that.

bring on the weenies.

President Bush has invited leaders of the conservative Blue Dog and New Democrat coalitions to the White House Friday to discuss areas of “mutual cooperation” in the words of one Democratic Congressional aide.

http://www.thehill.com/thehill…../bush.html

TSF: Babington is a real bozo.

Gee, Teddy, wonder what Dem is running against Kingston? Could they use donations? ;-)

Let’s give all Americans not just access to Congress’ health plan, but our lawmakers’ workweek as well. This Congress has worked seven days less than the Do-Nothing Congress Harry Truman railed against.

I’d like to tell my boss I’ll be back at work after the first of the year, and THEN I’ll start working full-time, and also where’s my holiday bonus (fact-finding trip to Scotland or the Marianas Islands!)

Geeve me a fuckin brek.
Poor sonofabich, has to work
THREE WHOLE DAYS,IN A ROW!!!!
I repeat GSD’s call for a public slapping.

TeddySanFran @ 9

Let’s give all Americans not just access to Congress’ health plan, but our lawmakers’ workweek as well. This Congress has worked seven days less than the Do-Nothing Congress Harry Truman railed against.

I’d like to tell my boss I’ll be back at work after the first of the year, and THEN I’ll start working full-time, and also where’s my holiday bonus (fact-finding trip to Scotland or the Marianas Islands!)

Well…
You deserve it, Teddy! You work so much harder than the 109th Congress. ; )

It’s the political version of punting. The clock is running out and they are hoping to force a turnover in ‘08.(yeah, dream on)

Funny it took this blue-ribbon panel of wizened leaders with decades of political and legal experience to reach the same conclusion that this fat, layabout without a college degree, from NH was able to deduce 4 years ago.

-GSD

Don’t forget chatz with Froomkin on WaPoOnline at 1pm eastern today!

ReddTedd!

Whaaaaa!!!!! Poor widdle congressman has to work 5 days a week like most Americans. Who wants to bet it won’t be anywhere near 40 hours?
Does he really think that line “Dems don’t care about families” will play well with people who actually work for a living?

GSD @ 13

Funny it took this blue-ribbon panel of wizened leaders with decades of political and legal experience to reach the same conclusion that this fat, layabout without a college degree, from NH was able to deduce 4 years ago.

-GSD

Perhaps, these “wizened” Beltway Brahmins need to go out more often and communicate with us little “dirty, unwashed masses”…

Just thinking out loud about the ISG report (which I haven’t read yet)—What we have here, I think, is mostly a political compromise…

“look here Clusterfuck- the best you are gonna get is another two years to bring this thing to a positive conclusion- so you can choose to do it fighting the whole nation every step of the way- or you can embrace this report- eat a little crow- and go forward during those two years with a majority supporting you- and therefore with at least a small chance of some success…

And you congresscritters- Ya know this idiot is gonna close his eyes and keep swingin for two more years- so instead of a doomed attempt to stop him- settle for this- withdrawal- dimplomacy-aknowledgement that if it doesn’t work by 2008 we’re out of there- no permanent bases- etc… it’s the best deal yer gonna get- and it gets yer tits out of the wringer in havin to come up with a plan that you all agree to…

I suspect that something like this is the heart of the report.

Bustednuckles @ 10

Geeve me a fuckin brek.
Poor sonofabich, has to work
THREE WHOLE DAYS,IN A ROW!!!!
I repeat GSD’s call for a public slapping.

What’s interesting is that a three-day work week is the schedule for when they’re in session. Overall, it works out to slightly less than two days a week. Not bad work if you can get it….

Of course, I’m sure they’re putting in overtime calling campaign contributors and begging for cash the rest of the time. That’s why this seems like such a strain for them all. It’s going to cut into their time with the fat cats.

Where’s BigTime? Still hunting in Georgia? Getting ready for our Ukrainian visitor next week? Buying presents for little Cheneylets number five and six?

Now that Mary Cheney and park-ranger-wife Heather Poe are expecting their first child, will Vice campaign for gay co-parenting rights in Virginia and other backwaters of the 21st century civil rights movement?

Oh, and…

Troops
Home
NOW

Hey, I have a family too. Sign me up for the three-day workweek and $189K salary.

Excellent diary at DKos from our own LindaR.

“I’ve never seen a project more fucked up. Every US labor law was broken.”

Let’s see Kingston address how those working conditions affect familes.

Hey! Aren’t they supposed to be arranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg?

TeddySanFran @ 20

Where’s BigTime? Still hunting in Georgia? Getting ready for our Ukrainian visitor next week? Buying presents for little Cheneylets number five and six?

Now that Mary Cheney and park-ranger-wife Heather Poe are expecting their first child, will Vice campaign for gay co-parenting rights in Virginia and other backwaters of the 21st century civil rights movement?

Oh, and…

Troops
Home
NOW

Toad-In-The-Hole is off in a corner, sulking and gnawing on a baby to make himself feel better.

As I travel in and out of my fever dreams (crud sucks) I seem to be hearing voices.

The voices are saying that America has awakened along with me, and has collectively called Bullshit on the Bush Administration.

Is this a Robitussin induced dream? Or is something really happening today?

It was good to see that the ISG included my oft repeated criticisms of the Iraqi Army that it lacks command and control, logistics, heavy weapons, esprit de corps, discipline, and allegiance. It also points out that it is underfunded:

The entire appropriation for Iraqi defense forces for FY 2006 ($3 billion) is less than the United States currently spends in Iraq every two weeks.

They suggest embedding more trainers with Iraqi units. Does anyone seriously think this will solve problems that go to the very core of what an army is?

Moreover, the idea of a national army is based on the fiction that a civil war is not going on. In this dream world, we can arm, organize, and train an army that will fight in support of the national government which stands above the fray and preserves national unity. However, in the civil war that is Iraq, the national government and the Shia who run it are very much one of the players in the civil war.

Again I have to ask how useful is a report that engages in the same kind of wishful thinking and reality avoidance as the Bush Administration?

Tom @ 21

Hey, I have a family too. Sign me up for the three-day workweek and $189K salary.

Don’t forget the FABULOUS health care plan.
And the retirement package is PRIMO!
Why, you can even be convicted of a FELONY, and still get benefits.

( Heavy sigh)

epu’d from last thread in response to Hugh and Rumi. (Thanks, Rumi)

Beyond the civil war:

You have several militias, some fake, some “legit,” if you can call them that; you have several Shia splinters; you have Sunnis versus Shias; you have Shias coming in from Iran and Syria; you have foreign jihadists; you have Kurds; you have a “central government” that is not in control of the country; and you have civilians terrified of anybody in uniform. Finally, you have US and so-called “coalition” forces.

Basically, a royal mess. Non-zero-sum. Nobody wins.

atdnext @ 17

GSD @ 13

Funny it took this blue-ribbon panel of wizened leaders with decades of political and legal experience to reach the same conclusion that this fat, layabout without a college degree, from NH was able to deduce 4 years ago.

-GSD

Perhaps, these “wizened” Beltway Brahmins need to go out more often and communicate with us little “dirty, unwashed masses”…

Yes, will there be a roadshow like the 9/11 Commission did? If so, Lee Hamilton will really rack up those Comfort Inn frequent stay miles….
.
.
I truly see B/H-ISG as a coup: Junja’s had his six years in the Oval, now Poppy and his old-timers get to even the score. Junja 6; Poppy 6.

“Keeping us up here eats away at families,” said Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.), who typically flies home on Thursdays and returns to Washington on Tuesdays. “Marriages suffer. The Democrats could care less about families — that’s what this says.”

I’m sure Rep. Kingston is terribly worried because of his family, and not because he wants to spend more time with lobbyists, contributors, and pretending to care about those pesky voters. I mean, heck, if you’re working five days a week, how could you have time to fly to Scotland for a round of golf? You’d barely have time to get over the jet lag!

Hugh @ 26

They suggest embedding more trainers with Iraqi units. Does anyone seriously think this will solve problems that go to the very core of what an army is?

There was some reporting last week suggesting that the trainers that are there now aren’t effective, so sending 20,000 more ineffective trainers won’t solve anything. Next to none of them speak Arabic now, so they’re not going to do much good unless they have 20,000 skilled military interpreters to send along with them….

Regarding Mary Cheney’s pregnancy…

Circumstances of the Cheney pregnancy were to remain private, a source close to the couple told the Post.

Can’t resist…

34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

‘Tis the season, and all that.

Speaking of which, I’ve got a post about St. Nicholas Day up at Kos.

Now I open my eyes and Edwin Meese is on TV.

Where am I? What year is this?

Maybe Kingston needs to find a job closer to home. He does have choices.

Balrog @ 25

As I travel in and out of my fever dreams (crud sucks) I seem to be hearing voices.

The voices are saying that America has awakened along with me, and has collectively called Bullshit on the Bush Administration.

Is this a Robitussin induced dream? Or is something really happening today?

Just a dream, go back to sleep for a couple of years or so. Feel better soon amigo.

Cheney’s son in law is a turkey baster?

TeddySanFran @ 29

Yes, will there be a roadshow like the 9/11 Commission did? If so, Lee Hamilton will really rack up those Comfort Inn frequent stay miles….
.
.
I truly see B/H-ISG as a coup: Junja’s had his six years in the Oval, now Poppy and his old-timers get to even the score. Junja 6; Poppy 6.

I believe they will be going on another roadshow…
Maybe Sandra Day O’Connor can get them ALL in the Rose Parade…

Hmmm… Will there be rain at the Rose Parade this time? I know Baker-Hamilton’s causing rain on Dubya’s Parade.

TeddySanFran @ 20

Where’s BigTime? Still hunting in Georgia? Getting ready for our Ukrainian visitor next week? Buying presents for little Cheneylets number five and six?

Now that Mary Cheney and park-ranger-wife Heather Poe are expecting their first child, will Vice campaign for gay co-parenting rights in Virginia and other backwaters of the 21st century civil rights movement?

Oh, and…

Troops
Home
NOW

Hopefully writing the speech in which he resigns for reasons of health. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Bush received a back channel message to dump him. It has been Cheney and the hardliners in his office blocking any talks with Syria and Iran. Of course Iran isn’t making things any easier. God, a conference for Holocaust deniers.

rwcole @ 36

Cheney’s son in law is a turkey baster?

707!

in LauraBot news:

Let’s talk clothes: Shouldn’t the first lady get some kind of exclusive on a dress? Should Oscar de la Renta sell a dress to other D.C. socialites? Don’t rich people have this all worked out already?

Who else at the Kennedy Center awards was notable for fashion?

Roxanne Roberts: The dress (actually a jacket and long skirt) was sold in Oscar’s boutiques around the country, so I don’t think there was really any way of knowing all four women (two who live out of town)would choose the same outfit for the same event. The first lady is actually pretty casual about her wardrode—she looks good, but she doesn’t obsess about it. And she wasn’t bothered by the fact that other women were wearing the same thing—but she changed because she was worried they’d be uncomfortable.

Now we’re gonna be treated to the dance—dems and Clusterfuck bobbin and weavin to wait to see if the other guy is gonna say yes to this report first…

Ya can bet that if Clusterfuck says “no”- dems will embrace it warmly.

rwcole @ 36

Cheney’s son in law is a turkey baster?

Is it wrong that I laughed really hard at that one?

I think the official work days were 165 and 100 over the past two years. The Repub. leadership wanted the folks to have time to solicit bribes to fund the thousand year Reich.

Eureka Springs, AR @ 35

Balrog @ 25

As I travel in and out of my fever dreams (crud sucks) I seem to be hearing voices.

The voices are saying that America has awakened along with me, and has collectively called Bullshit on the Bush Administration.

Is this a Robitussin induced dream? Or is something really happening today?

Just a dream, go back to sleep for a couple of years or so. Feel better soon amigo.

But, but, the Pony.

Balrog–I’m not sure— I got a bad feeling after I posted it!!

montag @ 31

Hugh @ 26

They suggest embedding more trainers with Iraqi units. Does anyone seriously think this will solve problems that go to the very core of what an army is?

There was some reporting last week suggesting that the trainers that are there now aren’t effective, so sending 20,000 more ineffective trainers won’t solve anything. Next to none of them speak Arabic now, so they’re not going to do much good unless they have 20,000 skilled military interpreters to send along with them….

Even if they all could speak Arabic with native fluency, it doesn’t really matter. We would still be training mostly Shia to fight Sunnis in a civil war. If this is the plan, then we should say so. If the ISG seriously believes in the reality of the national government and that this all is just a sectarian conflict, then they need to go back on their anti-psychotics.

Biodun,
Most civil wars don’t resemble ours and are often confused, multi-sided affairs. Think of the Lebanese Civil War for instance.

rwcole @
36

Cheney’s son in law is a turkey baster?

I hope Harry Whittington didn’t get the donor job as part of the settlement for the shotgun accident.

-GSD

I make Kingston’s workweek out as about two-and-a-half days maximum. For this, the equivalent in hours of working only on weekends, he’s getting a six-figure salary and full benefits, and complaining about it? May his next twenty years be on the clock, with his pay strictly by hours worked….

Do-nothing Republicans in Congress: This bunch? The less they do the safer our republic.

I EPU’d myself, so I still got that skill going for me.

Evil Parallel Universe @ 207

I think you all put too much hope into the belief that the report will actually cause Chimpy to change course.

I take the moron at his words – that he will stick to the same course and leave it for the next preznit regardless of what anyone else says – Bakker or anyone else (and I believe that even if the dog starts disagreeing with him) – regardless of how dire the situation becomes – regardless of how many die (American or Iraqi).

Is there anything in Chimpy’s history as Preznit where he has listened to different, let alone dissenting, opinions?

I for one have never bought into the Chimpy Senior and his team bailing out Chimpy Junior, of which the ISG is part. Not b/c they wouldn’t try to do it if they could (and even with the beloved bipartisan tag), but either b/c they couldn’t come up with a “solution” that Chimpy Junior could stomach or simply b/c Chimpy Junior wouldn’t listen. Either way, Chimpy Junior doesn’t change course.

Shorter me: The old guard (even in bipartisan form) saving the new old guard makes for good copy (as the covers of both Time and Newsweek show) – the A team is coming in to save the day. But that doesn’t have a basis in the real world (that is Chimpy’s unreal world, but you get the point).

The report isn’t useless though, since as long as Chimpy stays his course its bad for repugs (and the schmuck from CT) and good for dems – and it will play all the way to 08. Of course that is of no comfort to our soldiers or Iraqis or others in the region. Though perhaps it will give Congress the balls/cover/impetus to change things, which is the only real hope.

Hopefully I’m wrong – my omniscience can live with that – but I don’t think so.

rwcole @ 36

Cheney’s son in law is a turkey baster?

Either that or a little rubber baby doll.

Shorter Kingston:

How can I find time to solicit bribes, eat caviar, drink champagne and get lapdances with such a busy schedule.

-GSD

lisadawn82 @ 51

rwcole @ 36

Cheney’s son in law is a turkey baster?

Either that or a little rubber baby doll.

Say ‘rubber baby buggy bumpers’ 3 times really fast.

You know, I think it is lovely that Mary Cheney is pregnant. She and her partner have been in a committed, long-term relationship for quite some time. The hypocrisy of the GOP and the Bush Administration on this issue notwithstanding, I hope she and her partner have a happy, healthy peanut.

does snowjob have a presser today?

RW Cole,
Im glad I waited.
I knew somebody would go there.

Evil Great minds and all that.

twolf1 at 55 — man, I hope so. *g*

In the words of the BigDog to his Veep: It’s a fucking coup d’etat!

Gotta wonder what W will wish for his Veep. “Dick, you like hunting, right? Wouldn’t you like to spend more time hunting? Oh, yeah, on another topic — Hadassah Lieberman is stopping by this afternoon to measure for new drapes in the Undisclosed Location, pass the word along to Lynne, wontcha?”

To Christy @ 54 – For all of my snark I too wish them a healthy baby. Although I hope the little tyke has some healthy lungs and keeps them both up all night.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 57

twolf1 at 55 — man, I hope so. *g*

CNN just said it is coming up – “we’ll bring it to you when it happens”

too bad I have to run out :(

Busted- Supposing that Cheney has any friends- he’s gonna hear that line a lot from them huntin buddies.

Isn’t it time for congress to micro manage aka micro dole out funding for the end of this fiasco?
They enable this war it’s past time to end it.

rwcole @
61

Busted- Supposing that Cheney has any friends- he’s gonna hear that line a lot from them huntin buddies.

…and they will subsequently get shot in the face.

TeddySanFran @ 40

in LauraBot news:

Let’s talk clothes: Shouldn’t the first lady get some kind of exclusive on a dress? Should Oscar de la Renta sell a dress to other D.C. socialites? Don’t rich people have this all worked out already?

Who else at the Kennedy Center awards was notable for fashion?

Roxanne Roberts: The dress (actually a jacket and long skirt) was sold in Oscar’s boutiques around the country, so I don’t think there was really any way of knowing all four women (two who live out of town)would choose the same outfit for the same event. The first lady is actually pretty casual about her wardrode—she looks good, but she doesn’t obsess about it. And she wasn’t bothered by the fact that other women were wearing the same thing—but she changed because she was worried they’d be uncomfortable.

Now, yeah, this has been going on since Jacqueline Kennedy, but, my goodness, does it not sound like the chit-chat about British royalty?

Christy Hardin Smith @ 54

You know, I think it is lovely that Mary Cheney is pregnant. She and her partner have been in a committed, long-term relationship for quite some time. The hypocrisy of the GOP and the Bush Administration on this issue notwithstanding, I hope she and her partner have a happy, healthy peanut.

She also deseves kudos for the courage to not let her daddy’s politics keep her from doing it.

Sorry for the truly horrible sentence. I’m gramatically challenged.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 54

You know, I think it is lovely that Mary Cheney is pregnant. She and her partner have been in a committed, long-term relationship for quite some time. The hypocrisy of the GOP and the Bush Administration on this issue notwithstanding, I hope she and her partner have a happy, healthy peanut.

Notwithstanding the reactionary laws of their home state of Virginia, either. Hope the hospital is better than the state at acknowledging Heather in all this.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 54

You know, I think it is lovely that Mary Cheney is pregnant. She and her partner have been in a committed, long-term relationship for quite some time. The hypocrisy of the GOP and the Bush Administration on this issue notwithstanding, I hope she and her partner have a happy, healthy peanut.

That’s the difference between us and them, Christy. I’d guess we all feel that way in spite of our snark. I wonder how the news is being treated on Talibangelist blogs?

rwcole 36 — you beat me to it.

Balrog, someone at Kos has a diary about “the freeper meltdown” over Mary.

Christy,

Congrats to them both for having a life, however.

After hearing Mary Cheney spout rightwing hatepoints against John Kerry I have nothing but scorn for her.

Her friend Heather has my abiding neutrality, but Mary Cheney is a moral coward and will get nothing but brickbats from this corner.

Also, looks like this isn’t being accepted by the folks in Freeperland too well:

“Yay- We’re so proud of her- Now, another baby can be brought up in a sinful household and learn to shun God and live a life free from moral values- Good going!”

-GSD

I think our pal watertiger and her intrepid commenters might argue with:

The first lady is actually pretty casual about her wardrode—she looks good, but she doesn’t obsess about it.

I did like the later questioner on the same chatz who pointed out that since LauraBot went upstairs to change outta her red dress, she left three of her guests wearing the same dress, since none of them could run upstairs and slip into something more comfortable (and unique!)

Jane- just couldn’t resist–

Renee in Ohio @ 69

Balrog, someone at Kos has a diary about “the freeper meltdown” over Mary.

Thanks a lot Renee. That image will never leave my brain.

*wiping screen yet again*

EPU, I think all the Bush kabuki since Baker and Hamilton started making appearances before the election (which I saw as a pro-Republican move) has been geared toward diminishing its importance. If Republicans had won in November, Bush would have overtly blown the ISG off. As it was, he exchanged Rumsfeld for Gates to buy time and give a semblance of taking the ISG and the general discontent of the war in the country into account. But as Gates himself repeated yesterday in his confirmation hearings, Bush is the ultimate decider of policy. Other tactics Bush has used are to create competing panels with competing analyses and conclusions and to use language that he will commit only to look at the ISG report and would only adopt recommendations (piecemeal) as these further his own goal of victory. His recent trip to Jordan and the Hadley memo were all part of presenting an alternative to the ISG.

So to some degree I agree with you. Bush has been digging in his heels for weeks. He will be under increased pressure to make changes and he may make some but he is going to be dragged kicking and screaming the whole way, and we need to remind ourselves that “whole way” is really a set of bland proposals that ignore the basic realities of the civil war in Iraq.

TeddySanFran @ 71

I think our pal watertiger and her intrepid commenters might argue with:

The first lady is actually pretty casual about her wardrode—she looks good, but she doesn’t obsess about it.

.

I did like the later questioner on the same chatz who pointed out that since LauraBot went upstairs to change outta her red dress, she left three of her guests wearing the same dress, since none of them could run upstairs and slip into something more comfortable (and unique!)

(edited for proper spacing)

Watertiger loves to rag on Laurabot about her outfits.
And I love Watertiger for ragging about Laurabots outfits.

I especially love the comments about her wearing the drapes.

Not too much senitimentality for Rumsfeld at the Pentagon.

Pictures of Gates are already appearing.

So long Rummy.

-GSD

Dems are prayin that Clusterfuck rejects the report- which enables them to embrace it- thus causing the goopers in congress to eat their young and shit their knickers….

If Clusterfuck rejects this thing- he’s FUCKED…

On the other hand- he may be thinkin- “If I agree to it- maybe the DEMS will say no- and I’m off the hook”.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 54

You know, I think it is lovely that Mary Cheney is pregnant. She and her partner have been in a committed, long-term relationship for quite some time. The hypocrisy of the GOP and the Bush Administration on this issue notwithstanding, I hope she and her partner have a happy, healthy peanut.

EPU’d from this AM:

And Mary Cheney, congratulations, that’s wonderful! You’re gonna have a baby! Will you be marrying your partner? Oh wait, you can’t, aren’t you against that? Will you be having natural childbirth, or a C-section? Because it may be difficult for your partner to visit you in the hospital because, well you know, she’s not “legally” family. And once that child goes to school and everyone knows s/he has two mommies, how do you plan to comfort her/him in the face of the hatred and bigotry the Republican party (of which I understand you are a member) has visited upon this country due to its subservience to courtship of the fundamentalist Christian right?

But hey, congratulations.

Hugh – You reminded me of something I left out of the post.

Gate’s testifies we’re not “winning”: Chimpy the same day says we are “winning.”

That says an awful lot to me.

I love some of the understatement to be found in the ISG report:

The composition of the Iraqi government is basically sectarian, and key players within the government too often act in their sectarian interest. . . The result is an even weaker central government than the constitution provides.

What you need to keep in mind here is that the Iraqi constitution provides for a very weak central government. So for it to be even weaker than that is saying something.

rwcole @ 77

Dems are prayin that Clusterfuck rejects the report- which enables them to embrace it- thus causing the goopers in congress to eat their young and shit their knickers….

If Clusterfuck rejects this thing- he’s FUCKED…

On the other hand- he may be thinkin- “If I agree to it- maybe the DEMS will say no- and I’m off the hook”.

I think Chimpy is just plain fucked.
The dumbass has boxed himself into a corner and is swinging blind.
The phrase ” It Don’t Matter” comes to mind.

If Bush compromises he thumbs his nose in the face of the hardright that drive the policy…..Thus losing his base.

If he doesn’t compromise he continues down the path to unmitigated disaster.

Heckuva choice.

-GSD

Mary’s expecting lots of nice baby presents from Coors brewing, the Republican Party- and her local fundie church congregation….

Does it ever occur to her that she’s hangin with the wrong crowd?

The Baker report is withdrawal heavy…

Withdrawal over the next two years complete with the coverage of every bell and whistle ever invented- but at heart- it’s “get the hell out of I-Rock”

EPU, I wanted to write more on the Gates confirmation hearings. I thought it was important that Levin asked early the question are we winning to which Gates responded no. But Gates amended that answer to Peter Pace’s: we aren’t winning but we aren’t losing. After lunch, Gates futher qualified that to we are winning all the battles but there is more to Iraq than the battlefield. So in the end, Gates came out sounding much closer to Bush than was originally made out.

snowjob on cnn now.

he starts with partisanship and uniting the country and then there is no magical solution…

c’mon reporters– do your jobs now!

rwcole – I agree with Busted. Chimpy is fucked regardless. In fact, he really can’t agree, b/c it would call bullshit on everything he’s said and done since 9/11. By not agreeing, he still has hope, or at least thinks he does.

Clusterfuck’s got him own report on the way- it weighs five tons- it’s shaped like a giant p*nis- and clusterfuck’s gonna wear it between his legs during the presentation…

“So whaddya want—that shitty Baker report or THIS”?

(Cheers of brain dead gooper crowd break glass)

The Gates hearing was prelude to today’s Junja Smackdown. It had to be gotten outta the way (”See, boy, they aren’t obstructionist, they gave you your choice for SecDef”) as the sugar for today’s endless supply of BoyKing bitter pills.

Where’s the SecState?

They are returning.

Just like in post Russian Afghanistan, there is the threat of radicals leaving the jihad frontline and bringing the revolution back home.

Juan Cole:

A spokesman for the Saudi Interior Ministry expressed concern on Tuesday that jihadis who fight in Iraq and recruit Saudi young men for the battle are coming back to Saudi Arabia and becoming a threat to the country’s security.

-GSD

All courtesy of The Destabilizing Clusterfuck.

snowjob refutes david gregory’s question and says that stay the course was not the preznit’s policy.

yuh huh.

accused david of making a partisan argument when he was quoting the report.

Hugh – Trust me – I didn’t watch most of the hearings, but I did see the not winning part.

Gates sounds like he could be testifying before Congress @ 1969.

montag @
24

TeddySanFran @ 20

Where’s BigTime? Still hunting in Georgia? Getting ready for our Ukrainian visitor next week? Buying presents for little Cheneylets number five and six?

Now that Mary Cheney and park-ranger-wife Heather Poe are expecting their first child, will Vice campaign for gay co-parenting rights in Virginia and other backwaters of the 21st century civil rights movement?

Oh, and…

Troops
Home
NOW

Toad-In-The-Hole is off in a corner, sulking and gnawing on a baby to make himself feel better.

Troops Home? Now? Don’t tell Pelosi’s really fine choice for intel head, my very own Rep. Reyes – boy, talk about chickens coming home to roost. He’s nothing more than McCain cloned.

Was that baby boiled, fried, gently toasted or au naturel? Inquisitive minds want to know.

Bolton out, Israel distance, do you see a Baker hand, that could lead to a better deal for Palestine…hope so.

Every recommendation of the Baker group was unanimous- that means that Gates is in favor of every stinkin one of the 69 or whatever suggestions-

Ya can run but ya can’t hide Gates.

Below is excerpt from an article in todays Wall Street Journal.

Like a retreating army, Republicans are tearing up railroad track and planting legislative land mines to make it harder for Democrats to govern when they take power in Congress next month.

Already, the Republican leadership has moved to saddle the new Democratic majority with responsibility for resolving $463 billion in spending bills for the fiscal year that began Oct. 1. And the departing chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, Rep. Bill Thomas (R., Calif.), has been demanding that the Democrat-crafted 2008 budget absorb most of the $13 billion in costs incurred from a decision now to protect physician reimbursements under Medicare, the federal health-care program for the elderly and disabled.

The unstated goal is to disrupt the Democratic agenda and make it harder for the new majority to meet its promise to reinstitute “pay-as-you-go” budget rules, under which new costs or tax cuts must be offset to protect the deficit from growing.

And the republicans wonder why nobody respects them.

Evil Parallel Universe @ 87

rwcole – I agree with Busted. Chimpy is fucked regardless. In fact, he really can’t agree, b/c it would call bullshit on everything he’s said and done since 9/11. By not agreeing, he still has hope, or at least thinks he does.

Falls out of chair.

rwcole, that would be a great bumpersticker.

holy shit… didn’t think i would ever say this, but here i go: “yeah! for baker and hamilton”.

was curious to see what the ISG report would say about israel/palestine… here it is (below – please forgive the long quote but this seems quite important, and of interest to firepups) starting on page 54. it’s not perfect (to my way of thinking), but really, really good – and so far superior to anything i’ve heard from this administration (or the so-called foreign policy experts) – dems must get behind this effort now and not undermine it just to score political points.

4. The Wider Regional Context

The United States will not be able to achieve its goals in the Middle East unless the United States deals directly with the Arab-Israeli conflict.

There must be a renewed and sustained commitment by the United States to a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace on all fronts: Lebanon, Syria, and President Bush’s June 2002 commitment to a two-state solution for Israel and Palestine. This commitment must include direct talks with, by, and between Israel, Lebanon, Palestinians (those who accept Israel’s right to exist), and particularly Syria—which is the principal transit point for shipments of weapons to Hezbollah, and which supports radical Palestinian groups.

The United States does its ally Israel no favors in avoiding direct involvement to solve the Arab-Israeli conflict. For several reasons, we should act boldly:

• There is no military solution to this conflict.
• The vast majority of the Israeli body politic is tired of being a nation perpetually at war.
• No American administration—Democratic or Republican— will ever abandon Israel.
• Political engagement and dialogue are essential in the Arab-Israeli dispute because it is an axiom that when the political process breaks down there will be violence on the ground.
• The only basis on which peace can be achieved is that set forth in UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338 and in the principle of “land for peace.”
• The only lasting and secure peace will be a negotiated peace such as Israel has achieved with Egypt and Jordan.

This effort would strongly support moderate Arab governments in the region, especially the democratically elected government of Lebanon, and the Palestinian Authority under President Mahmoud Abbas.

RECOMMENDATION 13: There must be a renewed and sustained commitment by the United States to a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace on all fronts: Lebanon and Syria, and President Bush’s June 2002 commitment to a two-state solution for Israel and Palestine.

RECOMMENDATION 14: This effort should include—as soon as possible—the unconditional calling and holding of meetings, under the auspices of the United States or the Quartet (i.e., the United States, Russia, European Union, and the United Nations), between Israel and Lebanon and Syria on the one hand, and Israel and Palestinians (who acknowledge Israel’s right to exist) on the other. The purpose of these meetings would be to negotiate peace as was done at the Madrid Conference in 1991, and on two separate tracks— one Syrian/Lebanese, and the other Palestinian.

RECOMMENDATION 15: Concerning Syria, some elements
of that negotiated peace should be:

• Syria’s full adherence to UN Security Council Resolution 1701 of August 2006, which provides the framework for Lebanon to regain sovereign control over its territory.
• Syria’s full cooperation with all investigations into political assassinations in Lebanon, especially those of Rafik Hariri and Pierre Gemayel.
• A verifiable cessation of Syrian aid to Hezbollah and the use of Syrian territory for transshipment of Iranian weapons and aid to Hezbollah. (This step would do much to solve Israel’s problem with Hezbollah.)
• Syria’s use of its influence with Hamas and Hezbollah for the release of the captured Israeli Defense Force soldiers.
• A verifiable cessation of Syrian efforts to undermine the democratically elected government of Lebanon.
• A verifiable cessation of arms shipments from or transiting through Syria for Hamas and other radical Palestinian groups.
• A Syrian commitment to help obtain from Hamas an acknowledgment of Israel’s right to exist.
• Greater Syrian efforts to seal its border with Iraq.

RECOMMENDATION 16: In exchange for these actions and in the context of a full and secure peace agreement, the Israelis should return the Golan Heights, with a U.S. security guarantee for Israel that could include an international force on the border, including U.S. troops if requested by both parties.

RECOMMENDATION 17: Concerning the Palestinian issue, elements of that negotiated peace should include:

• Adherence to UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338 and to the principle of land for peace, which are the only bases for achieving peace.
• Strong support for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian Authority to take the lead in preparing the way for negotiations with Israel.
• A major effort to move from the current hostilities by consolidating the cease-fire reached between the Palestinians and the Israelis in November 2006.
• Support for a Palestinian national unity government.
• Sustainable negotiations leading to a final peace settlement along the lines of President Bush’s two-state solution, which would address the key final status issues of borders, settlements, Jerusalem, the right of return, and the end of conflict.

Harry @
94

Bolton out, Israel distance, do you see a Baker hand, that could lead to a better deal for Palestine…hope so.

me too!

Jesus B. Ochoa @ 93

Was that baby boiled, fried, gently toasted or au naturel? Inquisitive minds want to know.

I would guess, from the general state of Cheney’s arteries, that it was deep-fried.

“Offer Syria the Golan Heights in exchange for their help in Iraq”

YIKES–now THAT’S extreme!

rwcole @ 102

“Offer Syria the Golan Heights in exchange for their help in Iraq”

YIKES–now THAT’S extreme!

Well, extreme compared to previous policy. What a concept–giving a country back its own land to promote cooperation….

Every story I have seen about Jack Kingston has stated he works THREE days a week. Funny — he is “home” on Monday and Friday — and travels on Tuesday and Thursday. Seems like he works 1 1/2 1/2. That equals 2 days at best. And all of us who have worked know that if you travel on 2 of the days, a day’s work doesn’t get done on either of those days.

While no one will discuss the bilogical parentage of Mary’s child, some are singin “I’m my own grandpa” in the background.

montag @ 103

rwcole @ 102

“Offer Syria the Golan Heights in exchange for their help in Iraq”

YIKES–now THAT’S extreme!

Well, extreme compared to previous policy. What a concept–giving a country back its own land to promote cooperation….

music to my ears.

Just my opinion but I think the powermongers got everything they wanted and gave up nothing at all. These calls for bipartisanship are just a way to get Democrats to be Republican. They make backseat drive-in promises that sound great but never have to be honored because too many disclaimers come with them.

Americans voted Dems in on the spirit of the words of Murtha who was then dumped for an Intel Comm chief that calls for 20-30,000 more troops. Gates gets blessed/praised instead of challenged on his role in Iran-Contra which survived to initiate the latest Iraq invasion.

Tony Snow is now saying that the ISG report is exactly what Bush has been calling for and the media will lap that up too.

angie @ 106

montag @ 103

rwcole @ 102

“Offer Syria the Golan Heights in exchange for their help in Iraq”

YIKES–now THAT’S extreme!

Well, extreme compared to previous policy. What a concept–giving a country back its own land to promote cooperation….

music to my ears.

mine too. and here’s the thing – contrary to what the crazy neo-cons say – this, a stable peace, would be in the interest of the israelis too (as well as palestinians, syrians, and americans).

rwcole @ 105

While no one will discuss the bilogical parentage of Mary’s child, some are singin “I’m my own grandpa” in the background.

Ewwwwwweeee – jeepers creepers – ;~D

selise– and the jordanians and lebanese.

I cannot believe the enormous, far- reaching harm this has caused to so many and the way that our credibility has been shot to pieces in 6 years alone.

A Letter From the Republicans
Well, of course you won.

The Democrats’ victory in the recent election comes as no surprise whatsoever to those of us here in the Republican Party who have actually been paying attention. And, by that, we mean nobody.

Before anyone celebrates this “accomplishment,” may we remind you that the Democrats absolutely could not have defeated us so soundly without our active participation. Only through our party’s denial of the important issues and our general malfeasance were we able to present the Democrats with victory on a sliver platter, garnished with parsley and served by an undocumented worker who’s collecting welfare and getting his driver’s license next week.

In fact, we feel that, because of all the blood, sweat and tears we’ve expended in helping us defeat ourselves, we deserve a place somewhere in every Democrat candidate’s Thank You speech; somewhere wedged in between “my loving family” and “Sean Penn.”

Defeating ourselves has not been easy. We’ve worked long and hard at it. We took over all branches of government and issued a cry for inaction. From our inability to get our priorities straight, to our ability to sit on our thumbs and hum, we have proven that we can create gridlock even when all obstacles have essentially been removed for us. We begged the American public for a booty-kick, and they answered in kind.

Today, many Republicans, especially the ones who have been with the party for a long time, are asking themselves what happened. Why? But those people are lazy. They want to be told what happened and why, when the answers are glaring and unavoidable.

Certainly there are the little things: The FEMAs, the Rumsfelds, the Commander in Chief eating with his mouth open and addressing a head of state like a frat brother. But really, we owe our loss to a few other key factors.

Much of our defeat comes from the fact that we left so many of our party members scratching their heads, asking questions they haven’t asked for a while. They wanted to know, for example, why the party of fiscal restraint was spending money like a trust fund child on a Fifth Avenue shopping spree. “I thought Republicans were about cutting taxes and not over-spending” they’d say, and we’d say “Sorry, we can’t hear you over the din of the money-spending machine.”

In addition, our ability to sweep immigration reform under the carpet was of paramount importance in our severe self bum-kicking. For months and months, our constituency spoke up and asked us to do something about illegal immigration. They demanded action. They went so far as to police the borders of this country on their own, at their own expense.

Did we listen? Of course we did. We listened good and hard and made it very clear that, when it comes to the extremely important issue of illegal immigration and border security, we sure don’t want gays to get married.

We did a tremendous, tremendous job of frightening the moderates among us. By embracing the pseudo-science of Creationism and making bold assumptions about stem cells (which we admittedly don’t quite understand), we were able to give our moderates a choice: Either love our religiously restricted world-view or leave it. And leave it they did, preferring not to vote, or to seek a third party that wasn’t so influenced by the evangelical folks who never fail to take things just a little too far.

Thank you, and see you in 2008.

(Written by Glenn Beck)

hey firedogs,

re: The Chimp being f’d either way – can’t shake the alarms going off about The House of Saud and their increased volume this past week – maybe just in response to Bush meeting w/ al-Hakim (who afterall just wants us to kill more Sunni), but maybe not – that Op Ed in WaPo is not their usual MO

Gilliard is probably right thinking it’s a bluff ’cause they don’t have a trustworthy military, but all this chatter after 3 1/2 years of silence seems hinky and we know this entire Crime Family loves them some Saud

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01277.html

rumi @
107

Just my opinion but I think the powermongers got everything they wanted and gave up nothing at all. These calls for bipartisanship are just a way to get Democrats to be Republican. They make backseat drive-in promises that sound great but never have to be honored because too many disclaimers come with them.

Americans voted Dems in on the spirit of the words of Murtha who was then dumped for an Intel Comm chief that calls for 20-30,000 more troops. Gates gets blessed/praised instead of challenged on his role in Iran-Contra which survived to initiate the latest Iraq invasion.

Tony Snow is now saying that the ISG report is exactly what Bush has been calling for and the media will lap that up too.

“backseat drive-in promises”…what an apt phrase for what we’ve been told for the last six years.

My bold added.

Traditional “biblical” values, via Genesis 19

Lot went up from Zoar, and stayed in the mountains, and his two daughters with him; for he was afraid to stay in Zoar; and he stayed in a cave, he and his two daughters.

Then the firstborn said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of the earth.

Come, let us make our father drink wine, and let us lie with him that we may preserve our family through our father.”

So they made their father drink wine that night, and the firstborn went in and lay with her father; and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

On the following day, the firstborn said to the younger, “Behold, I lay last night with my father; let us make him drink wine tonight also; then you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve our family through our father.”

So they made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger arose and lay with him; and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

Thus both the daughters of Lot were with child by their father.

The statements begin.
“>Feingold’s statement on the ISG just landed in my in-box:

“Unfortunately, the Iraq Study Group report does too little to change the flawed mind-set that led to the misguided war in Iraq. Maybe there are still people in Washington who need a study group to tell them that the policy in Iraq isn’t working, but the American people are way ahead of this report.

While the report has regenerated a few good ideas, it doesn’t adequately put Iraq in the context of a broader national security strategy. We need an Iraq policy that is guided by our top national security priority – defeating the terrorist network that attacked us on 9/11 and its allies. We can’t continue to just look at Iraq in isolation. Unless we set a serious timetable for redeploying our troops from Iraq, we will be unable to effectively address these global threats. In the end, this report is a regrettable example of ‘official Washington’ missing the point.”

Thought some folks might be interested in this.

think progress

highlights belong to moi

This morning on NBC, former Vice President Al Gore called Iraq the “worst strategic mistake in the history of the United States.”

He urged President Bush “to try to separate out the personal issues of being blamed in history for this mistake

rwcole @ 105..Sounds like the Borgia family to me

Genesis 19 outlines a story which is physiologically impossible- but what’s new?

angie @ 110

selise– and the jordanians and lebanese.

I cannot believe the enormous, far- reaching harm this has caused to so many and the way that our credibility has been shot to pieces in 6 years alone.

amen.

but, to be fair – there is a lot of blame to lay on clinton’s door for the israeli/palestinian mess. if he hadn’t provided political cover for the biggest build up of west bank settlements – israelis would be in a much better place (wrt to internal politics) to negotiate. now there are over 400,000 settlers to object to a settlement that brings them back from over the green line.

RBG @ 112
…not that I ever made…well, not that many, back in the days when we had drive-ins….yikes, I’m old.

selise @ 108

mine too. and here’s the thing – contrary to what the crazy neo-cons say – this, a stable peace, would be in the interest of the israelis too (as well as palestinians, syrians, and americans).

The Israeli-Palistinean conflict is like the lungs of the Middle East. The Middle East (and the world) will breathe more easily once this conflict is resolved. But it’s so bitter: It’s gone too long; too many lives have been (and are being) lost; and both sides have made mistakes. The conflict has been a pretext for other conflicts in the region as other forces exploit it for their own agendas.

Yes, the road to Baghdad (and other Arab capitals) definitely goes through Jerusalem.

montag @ 102

rwcole @ 102

“Offer Syria the Golan Heights in exchange for their help in Iraq”

YIKES–now THAT’S extreme!

Well, extreme compared to previous policy. What a concept–giving a country back its own land to promote cooperation….

Also compared to what Israel will accept without considerable persuasion. The Golan Heights were a serious tactical problem for them before they took them over. They overlook a considerable portion of northern Israel. While they probably aren’t as much of an issue today, thanks to satellites, RPVs, and guided munitions, they’re still important.

rwcole @ 117

Genesis 19 outlines a story which is physiologically impossible- but what’s new?

You mean with respect to someone drunk out of his mind being able to “perform”?

Tony Snowjob says that the “negotiation” parts of the report are non-starters—the decider has decided-

Cujo359 @ 122

montag @ 102

rwcole @ 102

“Offer Syria the Golan Heights in exchange for their help in Iraq”

YIKES–now THAT’S extreme!

Well, extreme compared to previous policy. What a concept–giving a country back its own land to promote cooperation….

Also compared to what Israel will accept without considerable persuasion. The Golan Heights were a serious tactical problem for them before they took them over. They overlook a considerable portion of northern Israel. While they probably aren’t as much of an issue today, thanks to satellites, RPVs, and guided munitions, they’re still important.

i think the biggest strategic issue wrt the golan heights has always been water.

Renee- Yeah- We’re talkin so drunk that the person has no idea who he’s fuckin- or THAT he’s fuckin- we’re talkin near lethal levels.

Christy @115: Thanks for the Feingold. The ISG has no Middle East expert–unless you count Baker because he was Sec. of State under Bush One.

rwcole @ 125

Renee- Yeah- We’re talkin so drunk that the person has no idea who he’s fuckin- or THAT he’s fuckin- we’re talkin near lethal levels.

naw, the simpler explanation is that Cheney has sold his soul long ago.

Six More Years!

Six More Years!

Don’t forget Poppy’s still eligible for the Presidency. Or as Poppy said to Jimmy Baker 3 once, “If you’re so smart, how come I’m President?”

angie @ 106

montag @ 103

rwcole @ 102

“Offer Syria the Golan Heights in exchange for their help in Iraq”

YIKES–now THAT’S extreme!

Well, extreme compared to previous policy. What a concept–giving a country back its own land to promote cooperation….

music to my ears.

I predict that by the weekend, both Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi will make public statements critical of this part of the ISG report. Their statements will point out that the Palestinians, through their leadership choices in the elections of last February, have shown their unwillingness to be blah, blah, blah…..

Renee in Ohio @ 114

Traditional “biblical” values, via Genesis 19

Lot went up from Zoar, and stayed in the mountains, and his two daughters with him; for he was afraid to stay in Zoar; and he stayed in a cave, he and his two daughters.

Then the firstborn said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of the earth.

This would remind me of one of Marsha Warfield’s jokes: “Someone told me I should find an old man, because they last a long time. Who wants to fuck a old man a long time?” :)

naw, the simpler explanation is that Cheney has sold his soul long ago.

Wasn’t really “explaining” anything–just “stream of consciousness-ing”.

I fear you may be right, ET @ 130.

selise at 119– Clinton does not get a pass from me either. But he did do less harm than bushco.

selise @ 124

rwcole @ 102

“Offer Syria the Golan Heights in exchange for their help in Iraq”

YIKES–now THAT’S extreme!

montag @ 102

Well, extreme compared to previous policy. What a concept–giving a country back its own land to promote cooperation….

Cujo359 @ 122

Also compared to what Israel will accept without considerable persuasion. The Golan Heights were a serious tactical problem for them before they took them over. They overlook a considerable portion of northern Israel. While they probably aren’t as much of an issue today, thanks to satellites, RPVs, and guided munitions, they’re still important.

i think the biggest strategic issue wrt the golan heights has always been water.

A big consideration, to be sure, and yet more reason for Israel to want to hold onto the heights.

rwcole @ 124

Tony Snowjob says that the “negotiation” parts of the report are non-starters—the decider has decided-

Simple petulance doesn’t begin to descibe this attitude; there’s some deeper psychosis at work here.

Fresh thread, up and ready for you guys.

rwcole @ 124

Tony Snowjob says that the “negotiation” parts of the report are non-starters—the decider has decided-

Aw shit.

“thanks for the report – now get the fuck outta my office – but thanks for the report!”

Ed*ard Teller @
130

I predict that by the weekend, both Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi will make public statements critical of this part of the ISG report. Their statements will point out that the Palestinians, through their leadership choices in the elections of last February, have shown their unwillingness to be blah, blah, blah…..

i fear that you may be right, but until/if that happens we can let them know that we think it is unacceptable to play politics with peoples’ lives – including ours. that kind of thing is what we have rightly condemned bush/cheney/rove for wrt to the iraq war vote just before the 2002 elections.

not acceptable.

angie @
133

I fear you may be right, ET @ 130.

selise at 119– Clinton does not get a pass from me either. But he did do less harm than bushco.

agreed. and his negotiations at tabi had real potential (imo).

Renee in Ohio @ 131

naw, the simpler explanation is that Cheney has sold his soul long ago.

Wasn’t really “explaining” anything–just “stream of consciousness-ing”.

I understand. I didn’t mean to imply that you were. If you were you’d have mentioned the recent hunting trip those two took. /snark

angie @ 133

I fear you may be right, ET @ 130.

selise at 119– Clinton does not get a pass from me either. But he did do less harm than bushco.

The upcoming Dem leadership are already making a point of showing themselves to be more supportive of the current Israeli leadership than are the GOP. The main difference is that people like Reid and Pelosi articulate their viewpoint from the classic pro-Zionist stance rather than the typical GOP Christian Zionist viewpoint as articulated by the typical nutcase GOP millenialists in congress.

Note that Reid, Pelosi, Conyerrs and Kerry have, among other Dems, all denounced Carter’s book, but no GOP congressmen, to my knowledge, have done that yet.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 115

thank you for the feingold link. we’re so lucky to have him in the senate…

Ed*ard Teller @ 141

don’t they get it that supporting current israeli political leadership is condemning the israeli people to lives of violence and oppression? or don’t they care?

so frustrating.

selise @ 143

Ed*ard Teller @ 141

don’t they get it that supporting current israeli political leadership is condemning the israeli people to lives of violence and oppression? or don’t they care?

so frustrating.

I’m pretty sure they just don’t get it.

ET– I did not realize that Reid and Kerry had joined Pelosi and Conyers and I am extremely disappointed in their stance against Jimmy Carter’s book and invitation for discourse.

The dialogue must occur in this country and it seems as though our leaders are first in squelching it.

Ed*ard Teller @ 145

selise @ 143

Ed*ard Teller @ 141

don’t they get it that supporting current israeli political leadership is condemning the israeli people to lives of violence and oppression? or don’t they care?

so frustrating.

I’m pretty sure they just don’t get it.

i think you are probably right. so then the question is how to help them understand? a few years ago i (and some others) tried to get my congressional rep (mostly a very good guy – jim mcgovern) to go to israel/palestine and meet with the grass roots peace activists to hear what they had to say. at first he promised to do so, but then refused.

felt like banging my head against a brick wall.

angie @ 146

ET– I did not realize that Reid and Kerry had joined Pelosi and Conyers and I am extremely disappointed in their stance against Jimmy Carter’s book and invitation for discourse.

The dialogue must occur in this country and it seems as though our leaders are first in squelching it.

i didn’t know about kerry either. ET – do you have a link? thanks.

It is wonderful to see a Republican like Jack Kingston supporting working families like this — wherein some folks have to work two and three jobs just to make ends meet.

I’m sure many people have brought this up in the past, but this reminds of one of those town hall type meetings Bush had at which one of his groupies was telling the audience about the three jobs she worked…and the audience applauded her. I don’t know about anyone else, but my reaction to that was anger at the fact that anyone would have to work three jobs just to make ends meet. This says as much about the Republicans as it does about the worker/slave. I’m getting pissed off all over again just sitting here thinking about it.

Dilireus @ 148
one of his groupies was telling the audience about the three jobs she worked…and the audience applauded her

They probably rationalize it as congratulating her for ‘making the American dream real’ or some similar kind of BS.

Conservatives are scum, with scarcely any exceptions.

It’s time for America to dump the toxic illusion that Conservatism is a legitimate philosophy.

Either America survives or Conservatism survives.

We cannot have both.

“Keeping us up here eats away at families,” said Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.), who typically flies home on Thursdays and returns to Washington on Tuesdays. “Marriages suffer. The Democrats could care less about families — that’s what this says.”

Sounds an awfully lot like “Let them eat cake!”