
When Democrats take over the House in January, bills that will force them to go on record about social issues that are divisive within the party will probably no longer make their way onto the floor. Which is why Republicans are so anxious to stir the shit with one last push for Sam Brownback's paeleolithic "Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act," based on wingnut-pandering junk science:
Proposed federal legislation would require doctors to provide fetal pain information to women seeking abortions when fetuses are at least 20 weeks old, and to offer women fetal anesthesia at that stage of the pregnancy. A handful of states have enacted similar measures.
The review says medical evidence shows that brain structures involved in feeling pain begin forming earlier but likely do not function until around the seventh month, when fetuses are about 28 weeks old.
[]
Offering fetal pain relief in the fifth or sixth month, when brains are too immature to feel pain, is misguided and might result in unacceptable health risks to women, the authors said.
So basically, the bill forces doctors to provide pregnant women with misinformation that could result in them taking unnecessary actions that could jeopardize their health. One might think that an organization dedicated to women's reproductive rights would object to such a thing, but one would be wrong:
While the measure has provoked strong opposition from Planned Parenthood and the National Abortion Federation, NARAL Pro-Choice America, perhaps the nation's leading abortion rights group, has stayed neutral.
"Pro-choice Americans have always believed that women deserve access to all the information relevant to their reproductive health decisions. For some women, that includes information related to fetal anesthesia options," Nancy Keenan, NARAL's president, has said in a statement on the bill.
Democratic leaders cited NARAL's position when they decided against trying to influence the vote. Democratic leadership aides said yesterday that they are leery of Republicans charging that they are already out of touch with mainstream values, even before they assume power.
NARAL's actions have put pro-choice representatives in a horrible position by giving cover to this cynical ploy to embarass and divide Democrats and provide fundamentalist kindling for Brownback's 2008 bid. It's what we've come to expect from NARAL's Nancy Keenan, who put up no fight against Samuel Alito and undermined Connecticut NARAL's efforts to force all publicly funded hospitals to provide emergency rape contraception by endorsing Joe "short ride" Lieberman, who opposed it.
I know she's anxous not to alienate her GOP donor base who haven't yet tumbled to the fact that there is no such thing as a pro-choice Republican, but really this is just getting ridiculous.
(hat tip TeddySanFran)
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Oh Puhleeze. When will a woman’s own health stop being put at risk?
I had a long conversation a while ago with a former priest who is prochoice but with limitations.
I said I thought emotions had to come out of the discussion about abortion the way it is generally out of discussions about other medical procedures. He could not understand how we could remove them and his right to be involved as “part of a woman’s community”.
He also did not realize that the much vaunted late term abortion often is what should be offered to women whose child has died in utero. He refused to ackowledge that because of emotionalism many woman are forced to live for many days with a corpse rotting inside them before they go into labour and give birth naturally. This is also riskier for the woman than having the abortion.
I am tired of the fact that this fight still has to be fought over and over again. I love your posts, Jane. You see right through to the heart of the matter.
Maybe there should be a Draft Jane movement to elect you president of NARAL. Then maybe we would actually get somewhere.
Christmas!
I don’t even no where to start with the short-sighted idiocy involved in this, other than to ask the following: why is it so seemingly difficult for an organization whose sole purpose is to support choice to stand up and say so when issues involving choice are actually threatened? Am I missing something here that makes this even a remotely close call for NARAL?!?
Fine post, Jane. Astonishing that NARAL can’t find any backbone on its own issue. And this is another one of those “under the radar” efforts of the party that lost the elections to enlarge the mess they’ve left.
It’s really time for a new Women’s Health organization.
Time to build something entirely new that does what it should for women, and frankly, for men, too.
I hate to say it but, it looks like the folks at NARAL are more interested in collecting a paycheck than following through on their stated purpose.
I gotta love this woman Arianna. ;)))) And I do.
“Gather around, little ones, I have a story to tell you. It is a cautionary tale about a perfect little girl who had a seemingly perfect little plan.”
“The perfect girl was named Hillary and her plan was to become President of the United States. So, after joining the World’s Most Exclusive Club, she set out to do everything her head — and her consultants — told her was right.”
“She learned the rules of the Club, and followed them closely. She reached across the aisle and brought home the bacon for her constituents back home.”
“She posed for smiling photo-ops with Bill Frist, Newt Gingrich, and Rick Santorum.”
“She backed a bill criminalizing flag burning, came out against violent video games, signed on to President Bush’s missile defense plan, shifted her language on abortion, and became a bellicose backer of the war in Iraq — convinced that the country isn’t ready for a female Commander-in-Chief who isn’t a hawk.”
Christy,
NARAL has been going south for a while now. I remember a bunch of postings here when they came out for the Party of One.
Oooooh — interesting choice of words from Roberts: “we have a poisonous situation with Mr. Putin.” Hmmmmm…is that a hint?
The New Domino Theory?
Jack
Subway at 9 — I’m more than aware of a lot of stuff about NARAL. But this particular issue — where the science says that the legislation is utter crap - seems like a no-brainer to me. Why they are doing the neutral shuffle is beyond me.
Wow, does this mean we get Margaret Thatcher?
Are the folks at NARAL even interested in choice any more? It sounds to me like they’ve sold themselves to the GOP for use as targets, and think they got a good deal in the process.
Christy: I think Gates just made a mistake by saying that he agrees with Robert’s entire statement/rant/hysteria.
There is always a FUCKING risk…
We WILL NEVER KNOW what happens if we leave.
Roberts is a fucking moron.
Jack
OT - Lieberman up now on gates conf. hearing
Science? I know full well the Earth is flat. And the sun revolves around our planet. Period!
Christy@12
You’re right of course. THe shift is clearly toward the progressive view on just about every issue. For Naral to cave in here is pretty lame.
Lieberman gushing over Gates, and now builds on . . . Roberts!
I’m going to work before my office calls NSA or DHS to find out where I am. Later.
Gah! NARAL is obsolete.
Speaking of short ride, he’s warbling away now at the Gates hearing.
We WILL NEVER succeed in Iraq, Lieberman
you are another moron…
Jack
I find myself in the middle of a dilemma. I cannot decide which is more distasteful. Lieberman or Senator Clinton.
Kennedy had the best analysis…
Our kids are dying…
This should be the overarching concern…
Jack
“Hello, I am Joe Lieberman. And I am using this hearing as an opportunity to publicly polish my “I’m a jolly bi-partisan guy.” badge, but will fail to provide any meaningful oversight in terms of substantive questions.” Arrrrgh…the whining continues.
Did any senator say that he/she would vote against Gates- isn’t this just a ceremony? He’s gonna get approved- two years of greatness..
What an idiot to take the job!!
almost EPU’d:
EvilDrPuma @ 101
Where Rummy hides.
hey, Jane, glad you liked this Nancy Keenan “Wingnut Infiltration Moment.”
well, its just a pipe-dream, but I’d love to see the progressive blogosphere get together and encourage a boycott of so-called “progressive” organizations that undermine those causes themselves — or undermine the progressive movement as a whole by actively supporting conservatives who happen to be “good” on their single issue.
In addition to recommending that people withhold funds from these groups, the effort would also include “substitute” places where progressives could contribute to the same cause….
NARAL and the Human Rights Campaign top my list of “boycottable” so-called “progressive organizations”….
Libruls are the problem.
Don’t forget nursing’s role in this. It’s the registered nurse who provides the majority of health counseling to patients.
We must emphasize the need to separate politics from science and the need to separate church and state from healthcare. Health information must be provided by those educated and expert at providing it: physicians, registered nurses and therapists.
Association of Women’s Health, Obstetric and Neonatal Nurses and its legislative/policy page are two excellent resources.
Oh jeebus — Lieberman is followed by Sessions. My ears are going to bleed. Gack.
Rayne @ 6
Either that, or we have to find NARAL’s pressure points via large donors.
I want Lieberman’s political hide. There must be a way.
If the fundies want to work on something worthwhile, let them tackle this instead of messing with our freedoms.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH.....ers.index/
Christy Hardin Smith @ 31
“Our biggest challenge… Is how to handle Iraq.”…
Uh, no kidding, Sen. Sessions.
Btw… Hi, everyone. : )
I’m pro-life, damnit. How else will we have enough troops to fight immoral, illegal, terrorist-incubating wars, for Christ’s sake?
Lieberman4Lieberman pissed off punaise.
Bad Strategy.
Does NARAL have any scientists on its board? Or perhaps I should ask, do they have any scientists left on their board?
It’s all well and good that NARAL wants women to have information to be able to make their own choices, but the key word above is relevant. Does Keenan even realize what she said? Ill-informed, misguided science does not help women make informed choices - it inhibits those choices.
Arrrggggghhhh!!!
I’m really beginning to wonder if Nancy Keenan isn’t a mole bought and paid for by the Religious Right. Or just an enthusiastic volunteer.
angie @ 34
But, let’s remember…
For these people, “pro-life” only means one cares about the fetus up until birth…
Then the baby needs to take personal responsibility for keeping himself/herself alive.
Gates and his shoo-in. Demos. Where are you?
Halftime score:
Texas A&M 7 Plato 0.
OMG, Sessions is now quoting Lieberman on the need for a “bipartisan… tripartisan” foreign policy…
So I’ve got Republicans and CT4Lieberman…
Which is the third party they’re talking about?
Christy Hardin Smith @
31
The man is a Judas Goat in every sense. It would be better to split the senate than to continue to give that man any semblance of creedence.
Is it me, or are the Republican Senators kissing J-Lie’s butt every chance they get?
EPU’d from the last thread. I had to post this where it would actually be seen.
montag @ 136
Go ahead, mention names. My problem with your earlier post was that you castigated everyone in the state for the actions of the majority, and I compared that to the nation electing Bush to try to demonstrate how discriminatory that characterization is. To me, making judgments about whole populations due to the actions of some, even a majority, is intellectually dishonest when that population is not self-defining. It’s like racism or sexism. You may think that, since people choose where they live, it’s fine to judge them by that standard, but just because I needed a job and found one here doesn’t make me a redneck - it just made me employed.
atdnext — don’t forget the stored blastocysts that they prefer to end up in a holy trashcan than to be used to help the suffering people of the world.
“We’ve got an immediate crisis in Iraq…”
-Sen. Reed (D-RI)
OK, we’ve got a real Dem now!
Meet Nancy Keenan.
Contact NARAL.
Oh it’s a Double Civil War!
Jack
jack reed to gates - civil war or sectarian struggle?
gates - it’s more complex than a single title.
I would describe it with three words…
Impeach George Bush!
“We have significant disorder…
And a lot of thuggery…”
OK, Gates is saying that Iraq’s “approaching chaos”, but he won’t say whether it’s a civil war.
Oh, but Gates has clearly drunk the Kool aid and does the administration proud by blaming Iran and Syria.
twolf1 @ 51
Perhaps Gates could use the FDL title of choice for this misadventure: Clusterfuck.
Or even Jon Stewart’s: Mess-O-Potamia.
Iraq’s a “twofold mission”
1. try to improve security
2. prepare Iraqis to take helm in securing their own country
Why are they kissing arse?
Reed sez there could come a time when there is ethnic cleansing.
come on Jack– it’s happening right now!
I still can’t figure out why NARAL is consistently taking such wrongheaded positions on choice issues. Just look at their support of Chafee and Lieberman for two other recent examples.
It seems that the best and only way to deal with this problem is either to (i) render NARAL irrelevant by publicly bashing them for hypocrisy until pro-choice Democrats and progressives stop giving them any money or (ii) figure out why NARAL keeps doing stuff like this so we can apply pressure and force them to change.
Does anyone have a real theory about why NARAL would undercut their own cause so consistently?
I have heard some semi-developed theories thus far, but I haven’t really been convinced by any of them. Anyone have thoughts on this?
Our success in dealing with NARAL under prong (ii) above depends on our ability to figure out what is going on in their decision-making process on matters like the fetal pain bill and support for Lieberman/Chafee.
Oh, gollie gee whiz…
Now Collins is gushing over Gates…
Bay State Librul @ 57
’cause they are arse kissers
“What would be the impact on sectarian violence?”
That is, Collins is asking how a phased troop withdrawal would impact the violence…
Gates says he’ll go to Iraq and talk with the commanders about it…
gates - “i’m not smart enough and I’m not well enough informed”
my cherry picking quote
atdnext — welcome — don’t remember seeing you comment before, but it’s nice to meet you. :)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 64
Thanks! I’ve usually been here for Late Nite FDL… I think this is my first morning here. : )
So many of these jokers voted for the war and they cannot even admit they were wrong and that we have lost…
that conversation should be the central one here, but it won’t happen because they are deluded and too full of hubris (among other things)
Collins brings up the elimination of IG Bowen, but does not tell us who inserted that into the legislation. (I really want to know that.)
Peterr @
38
Peterr,
This administration has never shown so much as a head nod towards true science. Things like fact and scientific method seem only to get in the way of larger agendas. Like the loss of habeas corpus, the dumbing down and absolute abandonment of science is another example of society not holding the leaders accountable.
Most people, asked the direct question, “Do you want expert opinion to be given a place in your leaders’ decision making process,” Would answer, “Yes, of course, I’d be foolish not to want that.”
But, by allowing the exact opposite to occur (vis a vis, junk science morons or even unqualified hacks to be taken in place of true expert opinion), the society has given a carte blanche for the government and the media to continue.
How many times — and of course Faux news is an easy target — have your seen a legitimate, bona fide expert on a subject of scientific importance, juxtaposed with a hack of no particular background other than he/she fits the political ’story’ being told. And their information is given equal weight and consideration. Even Tim Russert does this. It is a pathetic occurrence in our society and it has been coming on for some time?
I don’t really understand it. I can understand why an authoritarian government wants to control a message. I don’t understand why a relatively educated populace continues to allow the mechanism of that control.
I guess I could have just agreed with your sentiment:
aaaaaarrrrrrrrgghhhhhhhhh!
Impeach the person that tried to rein in
on Mr. Bowen… who did that?
Jack
angie @ 66
Yes that person is a traitor…
Bay State Librul @ 68
Last I heard, Collins says she didn’t do it, but suspects it came from the House and maybe a staffer.
c’mon January– this needs to be investigated!
Akaka’s up now…
“We cannot come to depend on DoD to solve these problems…
We must look to State Dept.”
Maybe Senator Akaka did not get the memo that our State Dept. is broken, ineffective, and completely dysfunctional.
Pelosi criticized for offering Hastert a nice office and a crane to get to it.
Akaka’s asking about the personnel system…
Collective bargaining…
“What is your opinion of NSBS regulations affecting collective bargaining?”
Christy Hardin Smith @
12
I think NARAL must have been coopted they way AARP was.
OMG, Lindsey Graham is asking about Iran…
Hmmm, it sounds like he’s ready for war.
If I had to bet on who inserted it, I’d say Duncan Hunter. It’s his MO to insert stuff at the last minute like that — he and his staffers try to sneak stuff in frequently.
graham to gate - is iraq the central front in GWOT?
gates - I think it is ONE of the central fronts
angie @
66
me too
great point that we need answered (clause inserted)
holy shit…did i just hear that correctly? gates says he believes iran is actively seeking nukes, they would use them against the usa, and that the iranian pres is lying.
i’m convinced. any one who votes for gates after that bit is nuts!
Graham makes my skin crawl…
Bay State Librul @ 81
ditto
Sharoney @
39
I vote paid mole.
Is Gates being baptized?
John Casper 32 — why not BOTH?
I think it’s time we build a new organization that actively goes after the donors of NARAL and asks them to support a new, improved and effective organization that stands up for reproductive rights and women’s privacy in healthcare.
Tell me we can’t do it. We’ve got people here who built the likes of BlueAmerican PAC. We’ve got people who can make physical delivery of texts (and rubber stamps) to every member of Congress possible. We’ve got people who are experts in public relations and media access, website and internet community development. We’ve got women who can speak volumes about their need for private, safe healthcare, and men as well who can testify to the need for reproductive freedom.
We have it all, just need to exercise the political will to kick NARAL to the curb.
iraqis are threaten by democracy and that’s why they’re fighting us?
“Mr. Gates, would you say that yer one of them people who LIKE ta see the boys marchin off- flags flyin- guns shinin- ta kick tha holy livin shit out of the enemies of america- er are ya one of them other kind who HATES war?”
Graham gets Gates to say that Ahmadinejad is a liar.
Graham inserts Israel into the mix.
I quite agree, Christy, and would like to see it revealed and Dunkin’s exploratory cmte for the preznincy disemboweled.
oops– Gates just said ” the destruction of Afghanistan”, rather than “the destruction of the Taliban”.
(nice Freudian slip)
Do you renounce satan and all his works?
hell…Graham won’t let Gates disagree or clarify
OT - Gender pay gap narrows — for unexpected reasons
Is it true or false or multiple?
Bay State Librul @ 84
YES!
Pastor Graham: “In the name of JEEEZUSS, I baptize you as our new Chief Woormonger!”
cspan 2 ends coverage…
Bay State Librul @ 89
Gates tried to not renounce a few favorite vices but Graham railroaded him into renouncing it all.
Bay State Librul @
84
ROFL. He is the epitome of all that is increasingly dysfunctional in the far right seats of the US Senate…
Can Levin get Graham off the committee…
twolf1 @ 94
c-span3 coverage is still on…
selise @ 98
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs.....mp;Code=CS
You can go to the website to watch it.
C-Span3 still has coverage and you can watch online. FYI.
I really have to wonder if NARAL had a stealth takeover by the right. They tried it with the Sierra Club, but the were open about it and people rallied to throw them out; maybe they’ve learned from that. If you wanted to apply to an issue group the Republican government tactic of avoiding the fight of eliminating an agency they don’t like, and instead appointing someone dishonest who will undermine its mission, this seems like a textbook case.
I’m thinking of the documents written by theocrats in the 80s, I think, about how to get elected to school boards and stuff by hiding your real views, and then once you were in a position of power, pushing creationism and no-qualifications homeschooling and such.
What’s NARAL’s governance structure? I know us “Crashing the Gates” acolytes don’t think much of single-issue groups, but it might be worth launching a grassroots takeover just to stop Ms. Nancy from working against us.
why is there a picture of Paul McCartney at the top of this post?
“I know she’s anxous not to alienate her GOP donor base who haven’t yet tumbled to the fact that their is no such thing as a pro-choice Republican, but really this is just getting ridiculous.”
I have to disagree. NARAL has sold out. There is no other good explaination for their choices in the last year. Just like NPR. They may still have good reporters fighting for truth and truthful stories but as an organization they have gone to the dark side.
Problem is, NARAL needs to be a rigid, uncompromising organization. The last thing they need are split-the-difference types. Abortion is a somewhat unique political issue because there’s simply no room for compromise.
1. You can’t be “a little bit pregnant”, you either are or you aren’t. You’re either going to go all the way and give birth to a healthy child (Which means proper diet, excercise & check-ups) or you’re not. There’s no difference between having 0% or 49% of the decision. There’s no difference between having 51% or 100% of the decision. There’s no such thing as 50%.
2. There’s not a whole lot of time in which to decide the issue. It is preferable to get an abortion in the first trimester and women often don’t realize they’re pregnant until they miss their period. After that, they have to pull together some money, make an appointment, make sure they have time off from work, etc. Women who don’t want to raise a child at that particular point in their lives don’t have all day, they have a fairly narrow window.
Abortion rights are not something that lend themselves to a split-the-difference, batgaining type of approach. Those decisions call for a firm, steadfast decisionmaker.
Yeah, NARAL is completely useless.
Well, Graham just proved that Gates doesn’t have the courage/integrity/confidence to stand up to politicians attempting to influence or manipulate. Gates should have at least called time-out or faked an injury,…or something.
“we’re fellating our nominee here so we don’t have to fellate him in the secret session tomorrow.”
Transform this…
Jack
Ahh, Liddy’s up now…
“Do you support the change of the Army to 70 modular brigades?”
Instead of transformation how about enlightenment?
Jack
rumi @ 105
absolutely right.
That was very revealing.
He should have taken a powder like georgie did at the UN when he asked condi permission to go pee pee.
Liddy “stretched too tight under the knife and with scary streaks in her spikey hair” Dole up now.
Is that Wolfie’s World Bank?
Bay State Librul @ 109
So you don’t like Rummy’s transformation of the military? Hasn’t he done a heckuva job?
Re: As to why NARAL has caved, (Sorry I’m a newbie and don’t know how to do quotes yet),
Just spent ten days at my folks home in DC and was shocked at how manipulated the Dems/libs still are there. They have yet to figure out how to stand on thier own principles. NARAL probably thinks they have to give into “middle ground”. It don’t know if they are deluded into thinking they will be met half way by the zealots or they just can’t remove the beltway fairy-dust from their eyes. But I’ve stopped supporting them financially since they supported Chafee.
The Dems in washington are still cowed by the wingnuts. You should have heard the whining about John Murtha and Hoyer. They didn’t understand it was brilliant piece of symbolism on Pelosi’s part. She knew he didn’t have the votes but she wanted to tell the rest of the country that she heard their call on Iraq.
It was depressing.
As far as I’m concerned NARAL has failed its mission and is no longer a viable organization. What good is a lobbying organization like NARAL if they aren’t protecting the issue they purportedly lobby for? I’m influencing as many people as I know to give up on them and shift support to Planned Parenthood.
punaise @ 102
wow, good catch
Grow corn for ethanol?