Comments on: Late Nite FDL: Occam and I (And the Litvinenko Case) http://firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/ Firedoglake weblog Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:36:00 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: x174 http://firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-407499 x174 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:11:34 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-407499 <p>T: I would suggest that you check all of Putin’s comments in regards to the murder; how well do they jibe with your Yukos theory?</p> T: I would suggest that you check all of Putin’s comments in regards to the murder; how well do they jibe with your Yukos theory?

]]> By: Praedor Atrebates http://firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-407383 Praedor Atrebates Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:15:21 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-407383 <p>My original thought was a frame-up by former Yukos oligarchs to hurt/embarrass Putin by screwing British/Western-Russia relations but with more thought, as you offer above, it doesn’t really make much sense. I couldn’t believe it was Putin acting through the Russian security apparatus - they would have used a simple method like a bullet to the head or a cut throat. Radioactive poisoning is just too…much.</p> <p>Perhaps it was a rogue security agent or three who were acting on their own behalf in fear that Litvinenko would, in his fight against Putin (and in the service of the murdered Russian reporter), “out” them as a side effect of his efforts. They don’t need to worry so much about how it was done…though the how of this is extraordinary.</p> My original thought was a frame-up by former Yukos oligarchs to hurt/embarrass Putin by screwing British/Western-Russia relations but with more thought, as you offer above, it doesn’t really make much sense. I couldn’t believe it was Putin acting through the Russian security apparatus – they would have used a simple method like a bullet to the head or a cut throat. Radioactive poisoning is just too…much.

Perhaps it was a rogue security agent or three who were acting on their own behalf in fear that Litvinenko would, in his fight against Putin (and in the service of the murdered Russian reporter), “out” them as a side effect of his efforts. They don’t need to worry so much about how it was done…though the how of this is extraordinary.

]]> By: Slothrop http://firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-407345 Slothrop Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:53:26 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-407345 <p>Free speech in Great Britain? Not if you’re talking about the Irish Republican Army. Then, you’d bettter watch what you say.</p> Free speech in Great Britain? Not if you’re talking about the Irish Republican Army. Then, you’d bettter watch what you say.

]]> By: vachon http://firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-407342 vachon Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:51:50 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-407342 <p>I don’t know which is worse: Putin did it or Putin didn’t do it. I’ve been reading just about everything I can click to the past few weeks ever since this story broke.</p> <p>The “nothing to get upset about” tone the Brits are using is breathtaking. Can you imagine what it would be like if there was a hysteric at Number 10? The grave, new, reality of what is unfolding over there should make us all stop in our tracks.</p> I don’t know which is worse: Putin did it or Putin didn’t do it. I’ve been reading just about everything I can click to the past few weeks ever since this story broke.

The “nothing to get upset about” tone the Brits are using is breathtaking. Can you imagine what it would be like if there was a hysteric at Number 10? The grave, new, reality of what is unfolding over there should make us all stop in our tracks.

]]> By: rwcole http://firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-407075 rwcole Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:17:50 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-407075 <p>So heckovajob Gates is gonna take over for heckuva job Rummy- so that heckovajob Condi will have another top performer to hobnob with.</p> <p>I mean really- who gives a shit…Does anyone think that there’s a human out there who Clusterfuck would nominate who would make anything BETTER in Iraq? Hell no- we’re gonna get another weiner wanker..</p> So heckovajob Gates is gonna take over for heckuva job Rummy- so that heckovajob Condi will have another top performer to hobnob with.

I mean really- who gives a shit…Does anyone think that there’s a human out there who Clusterfuck would nominate who would make anything BETTER in Iraq? Hell no- we’re gonna get another weiner wanker..

]]> By: egregious http://firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-406961 egregious Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:51:14 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-406961 <p>newspaperbrat–</p> <p>Thank you. I need encouragement as emotional fuel. Your kindness helps me put my armor on and go back out there.</p> newspaperbrat–

Thank you. I need encouragement as emotional fuel. Your kindness helps me put my armor on and go back out there.

]]> By: Christy Hardin Smith http://firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-406921 Christy Hardin Smith Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:44:31 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-406921 <p><a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/12/05/whos-watching-the-watchers/#respond">New thread</a>, gang — Scarecrow is in da house. :)</p> New thread, gang — Scarecrow is in da house. :)

]]> By: rumi http://firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-406914 rumi Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:37:04 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-406914 <p><a href="#comment-406909"><em>twolf1 @ 256</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>mornin’ rumi. It will be a huge disappointment, after being newly empowered, to see the Dems go back to their wimpy ways. Maybe they will surprise us?</p></blockquote> <p>We can count on Sen Leahy to not be “diddlin’ himself” as previously suggested by Dick. Oh no,…he’ll come out swinging on this one.</p> twolf1 @ 256

mornin’ rumi. It will be a huge disappointment, after being newly empowered, to see the Dems go back to their wimpy ways. Maybe they will surprise us?

We can count on Sen Leahy to not be “diddlin’ himself” as previously suggested by Dick. Oh no,…he’ll come out swinging on this one.

]]> By: rumi http://firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-406911 rumi Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:34:24 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-406911 <blockquote><p><a href="http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Nov06/Sussman04.htm">The Truth about the Military Commissions Act </a></p> <p>…The seamless couplings of the Bush administration, both houses of Congress, and the media, combined with the powerlessness of the judiciary, exposes this new era of anti-democratic collusion and the dissolution of “checks and balances.” It is a harsh blow to democracy when the criminals in the highest offices of the government prove they are not criminals by changing the laws that they violated. The strategy of those who made the MCA into law is to erase their past crimes to pave the way for new ones. The MCA effectively immunizes government officials against allegations of torture and other war crimes. Surely this was a consideration when Alberto Gonzales told Bush that denying the Geneva Conventions would “substantially reduce the threat of domestic criminal prosecutions under the War Crimes Act.”…</p> <p>… This allows the President to seize a person who is in this country legally and detain that person indefinitely. Who, though, exactly are these “enemy combatants?” </p> <p>The MCA says, “The term ‘unlawful combatant’ means . . . a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States . . . or a person who . . . has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the president of(or) the secretary of defense.” …</p></blockquote>

The Truth about the Military Commissions Act

…The seamless couplings of the Bush administration, both houses of Congress, and the media, combined with the powerlessness of the judiciary, exposes this new era of anti-democratic collusion and the dissolution of “checks and balances.” It is a harsh blow to democracy when the criminals in the highest offices of the government prove they are not criminals by changing the laws that they violated. The strategy of those who made the MCA into law is to erase their past crimes to pave the way for new ones. The MCA effectively immunizes government officials against allegations of torture and other war crimes. Surely this was a consideration when Alberto Gonzales told Bush that denying the Geneva Conventions would “substantially reduce the threat of domestic criminal prosecutions under the War Crimes Act.”…

… This allows the President to seize a person who is in this country legally and detain that person indefinitely. Who, though, exactly are these “enemy combatants?”

The MCA says, “The term ‘unlawful combatant’ means . . . a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States . . . or a person who . . . has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the president of(or) the secretary of defense.” …

]]> By: twolf1 http://firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-406909 twolf1 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:33:43 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/12/04/late-nite-fdl-occam-and-i-and-the-litvinenko-case/#comment-406909 <p>mornin’ rumi. It will be a huge disappointment, after being newly empowered, to see the Dems go back to their wimpy ways. Maybe they will surprise us?</p> mornin’ rumi. It will be a huge disappointment, after being newly empowered, to see the Dems go back to their wimpy ways. Maybe they will surprise us?

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