(Photo sent to me by Scout Prime from a recent trip to New Orleans, LA.)
If you live in a coastal area, or near any waterway that has ever flooded in its long history, or in an area where tornados or mudslides or other natural disasters have occured. Or if you have ever had wildfires in your area. Or made a claim on your insurance in any way. Or…well, if you are pretty much any person who pays into an insurance policy month after month, and expects that the insurance company will pay a legitimate claim if you ever have the need for such a payment, you had better listen up and listen good.
Scout Prime gave me a call last night, and we spent some time talking about a recent decision by a major commercial insurer — Traveler's Insurance — to pull their coverage out of the Southern Louisiana area beginning in March of next year. This is a devastating decision, because without commercial insurance most, if not all, construction companies will not be willing to risk construction. Without commercial insurance, most businesses will not be willing to risk re-opening. And that will be true even for areas that did not flood or sustain heavy damage — because without some means of risk insurance, most businesses will simply move elsewhere — even if they have never filed a claim in their history. As Scout says in an article that she wrote on the subject at First Draft:
The importance of this can not be overstated. If there is no insurance there is no rebuilding. George Bush can claim the levees are hunky dory but NOLA residents do not have faith in them and now we see neither does the insurance industry.
First and foremost, for NOLA, this is about the levees — and the lack of any real push from the Bush Administration that the Army Corps of Engineers put any sort of priority into better engineering and rebuilding. There is no commitment from the Bush Administration whatsoever on this, and so insurance companies and businesses see no real incentive to rebuild or work within the community as a result — for the lack of strong levees pretty much dooms NOLA to relive the nightmare that was Katrina if another strong hurricane ever hits the city again.
No strong levees equals no protection equals no New Orleans. And that is the truth of it.
What does that have to do with the rest of us? Athenae covers this well:
Next week, I expect, insurers will announce that they're pulling out of Chicago. Risk of fire, you understand, and in the final analysis it's not worth their time.
San Francisco? Too many earthquakes. LA? Drought (or mudslides, take your pick). Kansas? Did you see the Wizard of Oz? No way is anybody going to be responsible for yet another town wiped off the map by a twister.
It snows a lot in Wisconsin and Minnesota; ice storms down trees and power lines, pipes burst in the cold. Anybody living near a river could get flooded anytime, so forget about it, those of you on the Mississipp. Fry the whole state of Maine, too; I hear they get Perfect Storms up there.
Look, I know somebody's gonna respond with risk-analysis graphs and such and I get it, I do, but the fact of the matter is that it's past time we stopped with the unconditional surrender in the class warfare that leads to these insurers saying eh, too bad, so sad, see ya later every time people actually need them to do what they exist to do and what you pay them every single month to do….
So my question is this. Who is going to stop them? Because somebody has to. We just elected a whole bunch of new congressmen and senators. Any of y'all out there not wholly owned subsidiaries of Allstate? I know since the campaign's over some of you have been lonely for the press coverage. Want an issue to pound away at? Want to be more than That Guy Who Isn't Barack Obama this year, with the added benefit that it'll help some of the Democrats who elected your ass? Step up to the plate. Somebody has to say, enough. Because pretty soon it'll be San Fran they're abandoning, Chicago, Indianapolis, Portland, Boise, Salt Lake. Pretty soon it'll be you, so when are you going to step up?
It's a good question. Who is going to step up? You think it's going to be Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Ins.) who, as the proposed head of the Homeland Security committee in the incoming Congress represents a state which houses a whole lot of big insurers who contribute to his campaign coffers? Yeah, me neither.
So who is it going to be?
Because, as the LATimes demonstrated in a recent article — what the folks in NOLA and all over the Gulf Coast are dealing with in the aftermath of Katrina and Rita and their insurers – is what any of us could be dealing with at any time. Insurance companies have long been in the business of not paying claims — they make money by taking in monthly policy payments and then never having to pay anything back out again. It's called profit margin. And the profit margin gets eaten into with every paid claim, now doesn't it?
While I do not expect insurers to assume irrational or substantial risk for altruistic and idiotic reasons, I do expect some good faith on their part when the chips are down for their insureds. And that is where the tough questions ought to be asked of all sides in this mess. Starting with the Bush Administration and their failure to adequately address genuine questions about the levee construction in NOLA. Why are those questions not being asked?
Oyster, a local NOLA blogger, has as good an answer as any on this question:
Travelers is a huge insurer, and this decision may be the tip of the iceberg in terms of cancellations in South Louisiana. While this country is saddled with an open-ended commitment in Iraq, and a presidential commitment to explore Mars, the Feds have carefully avoided any commitment to Category 4 or 5 protection for South Louisiana– an indispensable portion of America's "Energy Coast". We are rebuilding to Category 3 strength protection in a way that is unacceptable to the largest business-insurance provider in Louisiana.
New Orleans as a port city is essential to the workings of this nation: oil and other commodities are shipped in and out of its port every day. Likely a whole lot of things on the grocery store shelves, in your local department stores, fuelng your cars, and so on, came in and through NOLA. Those ports cannot be run without employees, who cannot live int he area without housing and stores and all sorts of other businesses to sustain their day to day existence. If they have to travel a great distance to get to work, their wages are going to rise, which will translate into a rise in prices for the things that we all use and buy. Beginning to see how this ripples outward?
But wait, there is more. As Scout Prime wrote this morning:
New Orleans is a major port for the US and South Louisiana is a major provider of natural gas, oil and refineries for that oil. The area has assumed great risk (coastal wetland destruction, Mississippi River Gulf Outlet) to provide goods and energy to the country. (for more go here) It all came crashing down on them with Katrina. Particularly the federal levees came down. The Army Corps of Engineers admitted it was their design failure that caused the levees to breach which in turn flooded the city.
The people of New Orleans had assumed they were protected. They weren’t. Having assumed risks to meet the needs of the country they believed there would have been a recovery response equal to the destruction they have endured. It hasn’t. They thought we were all in this together only to be met this past 462 days with neglect and abandonment. Worse they have endured the slings and arrows of the Why Live There, Why Rebuild Below Sea Level crowd and ask are we truly alone in this? Does the rest of the country not realize the importance of our port and off shore resources? Was there not a social contract? Is this not the UNITED States of America?
The questions go unanswered. It ought to frighten us all. If a city of such economic importance, rich in cultural and historical significance can be laid to waste and perhaps laid to rest from lack of will and commitment to make the part whole again, then who among us is safe? The new Congress could go along way in demonstrating we indeed share in the risk and responsibility by addressing the rebuilding of the levees to Cat 5 protection and restoring Lousiana's wetlands.
There are a lot of issues tied up in this: environmental, developmental, economic, shared-risk, and so on and so on. Which means that there are a LOT of questions that need to be asked and answered, and then asked and answered again. What I would like to ask everyone this morning is how we can get the people who ought to be sitting up and taking notice of all of this to get off their butts and start asking them.
Because, let us take this a step further: this is the result of a category five hurricane for which there was several days of lead time and notice as we all watched it head toward land on the weather reports. Imagine, if you will, this same level of ineptitude and disregard for American citizens after a catastrophic terrorist attack on American soil — say a nuclear device or some biological weapon. And then think about how we have had years — YEARS — since 9/11/01 to work on this, to put together some comprehensive planning, to have some immediate response up and ready to go…and then ask yourself how safe you feel about that after the catastrophic failure that was the Katrina response.
NOLA's fate could be all our fates. And it is well past time that we started demanding some accountability on this.
More on the insurance pull-out and it's impact on NOLA here.



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Good morning, Christy.
FITZ!
Mean old levee, taught me to weep and moan.
ReddHedd !!
Balrog @
3
Got a Zep thing going on this morning?
scarecrow at 0 — good morning. Man, you sleep in, and everything takes longer to get going. Whew! This article took some serious reading this morning, and now I’m just mightily pissed off.
Difi on Blizter – my hope is she will really step up… the time is NOW.
President Carter on CSPAN now, thanks to a commenter on the previous post.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 8
CSPAN2 here
Great post Christy!! It really covers it all and there are many questions to discuss and answer.
The same abandonment happened to the people who suffered through Hurricane Andrew. They were deserted too. That was Poppy Bush. Katrina was a much more horrifying event to witness, but in both cases the people were left on their own. The main difference is that Baby Bush could have saved lives if he’d acted. He didn’t and people died who could have been saved.
In both cases Bushes reacted with the YOYO method (You’re On Your Own).
I have no doubt that any victims of a real terrorist attack would also be on your/their/our own.
And yet they’ve been paying to rebuild Florida over & over for years. What about all those nice beach houses in South Carolina that get washed away all the time? I don’t believe companies are going to stop insuring vast swathes of the US-they’d go bust.
PeteCO @ 5
So it would seem. That and my Doors box set.
You guys end up with a lot of snow?
scout at 10 — thanks — coming from you, that means a lot. I tried to weave in a lot of what we talked about last night. But I kept getting so pissed off as I was reading all of the articles, so I hope this didn’t come out ranty. Grrrr….
Christy at 14…no I don’t think it is ranty at all. Your question of what do we need to do to get action is just where we need to be. With a new Congress there is hope…so what do we do…..
ranty is good.
imho.
I am so very sick of those who clutch their pearls and are too bored to listen to the truth.
well done, Christy!
San Francisco’s Emergency Plan’s gone online since Katrina, because our City realized if NOLA’s horrors happened after five days of warning, then an earthquake would leave us on our own for at least 72 hours. We’ve worked through most of these pages at our house, hoping to be ready, and I recommend it to others who think preparedness might ease their lives. It’s eased ours.
The social contract is nowhere more shredded than along the Gulf Coast, unless we look at the shredding done to military or reserve families, or the shredding done to Palestinian and Israeli families, or the shredding done to Iraqi and Lebanese families.
The world needs to face the fact that no one’s done more damage than George W Bush and his compassionate cronyists to the Earthling social contract.
Troops
Home
NOW
Pelosi 2007!
Balrog @ 13
Not bad, just damn cold-9 degrees right now.
A 1/3 of the NOLA transit workers were laid off the week of the NOLA Monday Night Football game at the dome. The statement was that there are no homes for workers, there are jobs to be had in NOLA but no where for the workforce to live there for no one to ride the transit system.
My boyfriend was working that game as a freelancer for ESPN, staying on the 12th floor of the Westin Hotel, said he could see huge piles of garbage, overturned cars and houses pushed off their foundations 13 months after Katrina.
Explanation from my Property Causality insurance carrier is that the country is divided into regions where they do their rating for risk and premium rates. So when California has a big grass fire with loss of property, my rate in the next state over goes up.
Speaking of risk and insurance… Whose idea was that?
All fine and good to share the risk so people don’t get blown away by disaster… but… insurance is a for profit business… essentially making money off of misery.
How about non profit insurance companies.. or pooling risk so wide that it “insurance” is affordable and we don’t constantly enable the fast to cancel and slow to pay insurers.
I know .. I know… Lots of insurance is a result of lawsuits which often exceed the real harm suffered. I am not talking frivilous lawsuits, which there are… but lawsuits where someone gets hundreds of thousands of dollars for a stiff neck.
The whole system seems to be one of spiraling costs which even put the cost of insurance outside the reach of people who probably most need it.
If there’s one industry I really dislike as being a usuless bloodsucking do nothing industry it’s insurance. They are leeches on the health care system doing absolutely nothing except create paperwork, barriers and problems…. 99% of the time. Single payer national health is the way to rid us of these leeches.. but they won’t let go of all that easy cash…
Am I in the minority in dispising this industry?
The Times-Picayune’s map of the levee progress is here.
http://www.nola.com/katrina/pd…..ection.pdf
TeddySanFran at 14…I would think every mayor and governor must have had the fear of God in them watching the initial Katrina response
The biggest lobbying group, by far, are the ‘non-connected’ people. For instance. Folks like me.
DefJef — no.
katymine at 19 — it is such a mess. Tim Tagaris, who is down in NOLA covering the run-off election and Katrina issues for MyDD right now was telling me the other day how otherworldly some of the areas look, this far out from the hurricane. And I would bet that a lot of that is because there is nowhere for people to live to come back and do clean-up. It is such a mess. I heard on NPR the other day something about hundreds of FEMA trailers being damaged by weather and now unusable because they were left outside and I was thinking “Um…weren’t people supposed to be able to LIVE in those things?” Arrrrrrgh…the whole thing just makes me so pissed off on so many levels.
TeddySanFran @ 24
You are not alone.
scout prime @ 22
Personally, I realized that if NOLA’s inhabitants were disposable to this Misadministration, then so were SanFran’s.
I don’t think you were ranty, Christy. You just laid it out as it is. The insurance companies have a contract with their policy holders. They just need to keep their word.
On another note. I know I am naive, but I don’t understand why insurance companies have to make a profit at all. Why not non-profit insurance companies? That way, all they have to do is cover their operating costs. The rest goes to the corpus for insuring the policies.
I have tried with photos and video to convey the scope and degree of destruction but it is almost impossible. One has to see it. It is beyond Third World….it is Other Worldly
I’ve heard it said if the levees give way in the Sacramento Delta it will make N.O. seem like an afternoon nap.
If this be a Sunday Morning ReddHedd Rant, more please!
Play on.
The local government initiative here in NYC is the Go Bag — which contains the pre-packed essentials you’re supposed to grab as you race out the door in the face of the next terrorist attack.
Carter now on Blizter
Oklahoma kiddo at 30…there needs to be more government oversight of the Army Corps of Engineers and Congress needs to stop treating it as it’s favorite pork trough….getting projects for their districts (some of which are terrible) while others are neglected
Just like the open hole in NY. This is the ongoing sign of incompetence, greed, guilt and complicity of the Bush/Cheney/Norquist “fuck-em” fantasy of small, no-fault government.
Bush has left a trail of tears in his wake. He has no conscience whatsover.
Maybe he’ll head down again when needs a boost up from 25% in the polls.
-GSD
OldCoastie @ 33
He’s still on CSPAN2. How can he be two places at once? ;)
On Daschle, on Blitzer.
-GSD
scout prime @ 34
I know they were studying the Dutch plan for 100 year floods. What ever happened to that? (or was that 1,000 year floods?)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 5
Well, if this is what you do when you “sleep in,” then I suggest you sleep in more often. This is excellent.
There seem to be several issues going on. One is the natural financial incentive insurance companies have to limit payment of claims. That’s to be expected, as long as there is a check on this. The natural check on that is either goverment oversight of claims decisions — some independent review board where both parties can get quick resolution of valid vs bogus claims — or litigation, in which the insured sues the insurance company for “bad faith” in refusing to pay a claim. Juries then provide the check. Note that the Bush regime has tried to cripple both of these checks on bad faith by insurance companies: (1) it has refused to perform the regulatory function (or appointed industry hacks to regulator positions [in all regulatory agenices]) and (2) it has attacked the litigation check by going after class actions law suits and trial lawyers. So it’s no wonder that a huge part of this problem is increasing “bad faith” on the part of insurance companies.
The larger problem you correctly emphasize is the unwillingness of the federal government to perform its essential police powers function — provide for public safety. By not sufficiently investing in the levees, they increase the risks, and the private insurance companies will quite understandably withdraw from the business. Private companies do not and can not exist to subsidize uneconomic risks — in any business. So once again, we find the federal government failing to do its job — this time, in creating/sustaining the conditions in which businesses can sustain themselves. This part is not the insurance companies’ fault; it’s the government’s — including the Congress, but particularly the Bush regime.
Scout prime is absolutely correct that this destructive, anti-government attitude that permeates the Bush/Republican regime is a serious threat to all of us. Governments provide the necessary underpinnings for public safety and economic activity, and this administration is simply not doing it’s job on either front — anywhere.
George W. Bush, killing America, one youth at a time.
-GSD
scout prime @ 34
I left Nola about 14 years ago, but recall at the time that the local levee boards were packed with wannabe political hacks. Do you know whether there’s been any change post-Katrina? Or have the locals been cut out entirely from the rebuilding process?
This is really terrific and thoughtful work, thanks to both Scout Prime and Christy.
From a competitive perspective, the best thing to happen to German and Japanese steel industries was WWII. They rebuilt with state of the art technology and kicked the crap out of US Steel industries, which were all built on much earlier technological platforms. To use one of Bush’s favorite terms, NOLA is now the central front in the battleground between environmental, energy, and economic policy. As Scout Prime and Christy highlight, NOLA is an irreplaceable center for oil and refining. Not rebuilding is not an option for the Nation.
It is still possible for us to turn the disaster that was Katrina into an opportunity to create a sustainable, environmentally acceptable NOLA. Unfortunately, we will have to do that in spite of the Executive Branch.
I wish I could stay but I have to run to work now.
Remember it is not too late for New Orleans but we need to get action from the new Congress particularly regarding levees and wetland restoration.
This decision is a very real consequence of global climate change and environmental degradation of the delta. Although the Bush administration doesn’t consider science when making decisions corporations do: their fiduciary responsibility to shareholders requires that they utilize the best available information. Insurance companies have been interested in global warming and its likely effects on hurricane frequency and strength for more than 10 years now. If they thought that the environment (in the hurricane/flooding sense) in Orleans parish was one that could be managed they would assess the risk and write policies. They’ve looked at the data and decided that if you need insurance in that part of the world you can’t afford it.
The Bush administration is fond of prattling on about the costs of addressing global climate change. If coastal (and many mountain resort) small business owners understood how they were being thrown under the bus they would be outraged. The costs of not addressing climate change may well be catastrophic.
Does anyone see the failure of the federal system / states rights when something like Katrina strikes?
Remember how the pukes tried to blame the state for what happened … a strange way of acknowledging the disaster… blame it on the state. eh?
The of course we have the work done by the Army Corps of (incompetant) engineers who should be liable for something… no? And of course they get a do over and we pay YET AGAIN.
Why can’t there be a nice multi billion dollar class action suit by the victims of NOLA naming the ACE, the insurers, FEMA etc for gross negligence? You can tell I am not a lawyer.. but why file claims and wait like idiots for these jerks to diss you again and again.
They need some mean nasty lawyers who will take them for 30-40 billion… eh? At least they might get with the program.
Insurance is certainly an ongoing problem here in south Louisiana. However, I would have to disagree that nothing is being done with respect to the levees. A lot of work has been completed within the last year to strengthen the levees on the south shore of Lake Pontchartrain (which I see every working day) and in other areas as well. I believe they are working on a July 2007 deadline to complete the levees to a previously authorized height for protection up to a Cat 3 hurricane, with longer-range plans (2010 completion date) to get to Cat 5 levels for the Lake Pontchartrain basin. (Cat 5 levees would be as much as 26 feet above sea level … absolutely enormous structures.) USACE has fallen on their sword and taken responsibility for the levee failures, but truthfully a lot of local agencies and politicians are due a heavy share of blame, which so far has largely been ignored. The levee boards were some of the worst culprits, along with the New Orleans Sewerage & Water Board. The levee boards failed to provide adequate oversight and quality control on the levee construction projects, which were their responsibility. They also failed to properly inspect and maintain the levees that were in place. I do agree that only the Federal government has the resources to fix the problems, and I think USACE recognizes this and has taken the blame because in some measure doing so allows them to take more control of fixing the problem. They still have the unenviable task of dealing with the local governments and agencies, many of whom have different agendas. It’s not going to be easy, or cheap.
All that aside, there is another difficulty: south Louisiana is sinking, and building ever-larger levees won’t change that. There are some areas where a rational person would not permit rebuilding. Local politics and passions have largely prevented anyone from developing and implementing a more rational rebuilding plan, and what rebuilding has occurred has been patchwork and piecemeal. Bluntly, it’s an ongoing disaster. But how do you tell people the land they lived on for 4-5 generations is unsuitable for rebuilding? How do you convince those with valid reasons to mistrust the motives of the powerful that you are not simply aiming to dispossess them of what little they had? There is a leadership void at all levels of government, but I suspect that Jesus Christ could walk on water up the Mississippi to the steps of Gallier Hall and present The Plan, and most people here would either argue or ignore it and continue doing what they were already doing.
There was a CSpan panel discussion after the first anniversary of Katrina which had people who did some investigations reporting of the disaster.
The one thing that I took away from that is how badly FEMA failed America. BushCo FEMA is 100% dedicated to dealing with terrorism, not disasters. BUT America has a 100% chance of a hurricane, 100% chance of a earthquake, 100% chance of a flood, Calif & other western states are 100% chance of forest/brush fires.
Why would FEMA spend it’s resources on something that has a chance rate of 1 in 64,000 VS something that has 100% chance of occurring?
Welcome from Bush’s World!
Yes there has been change with the levee boards. Voters passed referendum to consolidate them…a very good move.
As for the Dutch I think it is at least a 1000 years probably more. They have an excellent system. And London also
As someone who has good reason to know how dishonest insurance companies are relative to medical claims, I was disgusted but not surprised when I saw this in the news.
The entire insurance industry is nothing but a legally mandated scam.
So, clutching my pearls :-), I will spend some time this week trying to find a way to move my homeowners insurance away from Travelers to another place. And when I do, I will let Travelers know why they’ve lost a (very small) piece of business.
Scout at 43 — thanks so much for stopping in today. Really appreciate it!
You bet Christy. Thanks for posting this!
I’ll try to stop back in a bit
The Post had a good article on the broader implications of obtaining insurance in the post Katrina world. Allstate is no longer writing homeowner policies for the boroughs of Manhattan, Westchester county and Long Island.
The way to handle disaster claims is for the feds to pay out immediately to the claimants… ie insert themselves in the middle between the insured and the insurers.
Then the Feds go after the insurers to recover the claims paid…. add on some fees for processing them and even seize the Insurance Co’s portfolios / assests until the accounting has been cleared by the auditors…
A few experiences like that might get the insurers to be more responsive…
Reluctance to insure in areas especially susceptible to impacts from global climate change could actually be a very positive sign:
http://tinyurl.com/y5fl77
That’s not to suggest that our government is awake — clearly the President is asleep when it comes to climate — and that the manner in which insurers withdraw from markets is precise, fair, nuanced etc etc. But do YOU want to insure people to rebuild in flood zones? Maybe something like big capital taking climate change seriously will help awaken the President and others. (Not likely for GW, I fear.)
BenM @
52
Thanks for the Post link. I was trying to remember where I read that 54% of Americans live within 50 miles of a coast.
I still think it’s about race and class in NOLA. We’ve heard it so many times but it think it still rings true: would the response have been the same if this had happened in Salt Lake…or my sweet little rich white-bread town…
Natural disaster in NOLA is the perfect storm and the perfect chance to clean that place up, take it away from all those black and “lower” class folks.
Problem is, this administration’s so inept that they can’t even get this done. They can’t plan and execute rebuilding Iraq, and they can’t plan and execute rebuilding NOLA, even if the wet dream was to make it into a Disneyland New Orleans.
I don’t blame you for being righteously pissed off this morning Christy. Seems we should all get angry about this and do some long-term leaning on our political leadership.
I started to compose a post about for profit insurance, shared risk vs redlining, and what a huge pyramid scheme it really is – but I started hyperventilating so bad I had to stop. >:(
The anger is good, very much deserved.
But I think we are missing something else here.
The articles about St. Paul discontinuing coverage due to hurricane exposure should be encouraging us to ask what St. Paul’s position is on writing coverage in other hurricane exposures, like Mississippi, Texas and Florida (states with Republican leadership, I might point out).
If St. Paul was justifying pull out based on hurricane exposures alone, why is it not doing a pull out from all of these states?
Is this not a form of redlining? How do we know it’s not?
There’s another component here in play as well; each state has its own insurance regulatory agency. What makes Louisiana’s agency different from these other states? What did Florida do in the wake of Hurricane Andrew that prevented the flight of businesses from a state that has been battered numerous times since Hurricane Andrew? And what about Hawaii — what makes HI more appetizing than Louisiana?
There’s more going on here than broken levees.
CSpan panel video discussion on Katrina
Katrina’s liability implications.
Great article Redd—
I recognize that insurance companies and lawyers get along in much the same way as Lions and antelope- but you just ran up the score!!
Insurance is a capitalist invention. Think on that one for a bit.
This is the kind of thinking that gives you interest and fees… (now on virtually every transaction you make).
Concepts like “hedge funds”… gambling for the ultra rich… Venture capital for stealing ideas when you have nothing but lots of money… Inflation because you have interest… or is it interest because you have inflation…
How about share value which has little to do with the value of a business… and more to do with the perception of it?
Christy, thanks for this informative post.
I went down to Pascagoula in September and met some folks that live down there.
Their insurance company was witholding payment of their claim by stating they didn’t have “flood” insurance. They did not differentiate between a flood as we know it, which is primarily a gravity-driven water event due to a ton of rain or a dam failure; and this wind-driven water event, Katrina, basically blew the Gulf of Mexico to a depth of 10-12 feet through their town in spite of said gravity. I don’t have the number, but I’m quite sure that 10-12 feet of rain did not fall on Pascagoula.
Now I’m also sure that the insurance companies have weasel words in their policies to dodge payment of claims, but the commonly understood definition of a “flood” does not apply to Katrina, at least on the Mississippi coast.
Watching Carter on C-Span and reading here. What a wonderful Sunday!
From the NOLA article:
So they’re still going to insure LARGE commercial properties? Like oil refineries and platforms perhaps? I smell a huge, stinking rat.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 63
yeppers.
Rayne, I agree. There’s a piece of this puzzle we don’t know about and I dread finding out what it is.
Can the Dems jump-start the rebuilding? How? We’ve signalled to our big rebuilders – Halliburton, Parsons, etc. – that we don’t care what kind of shitty job they do, they’ll still get paid. They’ll go to NOLA and whine about big mosquitos, alligators and swamp gas, hey this is too hard, and do sub-standard work, collect their money and go home, after hiring tens of thousands of Texans, Missourians and even OKans instead of NOLAns.
I don’t unerstande why there’s not a national groundswell to DO SOMETHING . Perhaps they think It Can’t Happen Here, to them. We know better. As we used to say about my sprout:
Bare butt for the grace of God go I.
(he was really cute)
Jane Hamsher quoted in Baltimore Sun profile of Keith Olbermann. h/t Siun!
Excerpt:
I don’t see this as a good sunday when people are being slaughtered and still homeless in places like NOLA.. when the cops gun down a black man with 50 bullets after promising this wouldn’t happen again after Diallo.
The poor and now the middle class are being destroyed by the capitalist class.. every single minute and hour and day in this country.
The disenfranchised are sent to slaughter in Iraq… and we have ghettos in this rich nation which is hardly better than third world nations…
And we do nothing about the genocide in Darfur.
Don’t take toothpaste with you when you air travel NOR hair gel. We are in a GWOT…
DefJef – umm, what’s your point?
Insurance is a method by which a company can manage risk, while others assume their risk in exchange for potential profits.
Capitalist? Sure. But insurance can and does work.
The problem here is inequities in risk distribution; at what point are people asked to take on risk that should be distributed not only to commercial entities that specialize in risk management and mitigation, but across the entire public? At what point is there a compelling public interest in assuring equity in the insurance business?
It’s not unlike banking and respective lending practices; at what point do practices become usury, and when does the public intervene?
Hedge funds are another form of risk mitigation; having read numerous hedge contracts, they can be virtually identical to insurance contracts. It’s not gambling in the substantive majority of cases; it’s a calculated effort to mitigate risk exposures.
Ask any small business owner whether he’s gambling when he buys general liability or health insurance. Is he? Or is he mitigating risks?
AirportCat @ 46
Thanks. Informed, thoughtful. So it would seem that one thing to do would be to promote a network of smart, progressive, reality-based (and honest) set of politicians to elected and appointed posts in the local area. Take back the local offices. Sounds like very difficult jobs, with slow/limited progress for the next two decades. But. With a team of this sort working together, maybe something that approaches fair could be hammered out.
You are right, DefJef– ergo my malaise since the election, but I love and cherish FDL and Jimmy Carter.
Agh. I’m in mod again. Wonder what word triggered it? Or if it’s because I’m at a different PC on the same network?
[Mod note; suffice it to say it’s not that you’re working from a different PC]
Mommybrain I have wondered where the groundswell is also. I’m not sure if people have felt so powerless?
And I think many believe the rebuilding is going well.
On my last return flight from NOLA the woman next to me said “It looks good down there doesn’t it”
she never got out of the central busines district or French Quarter
Oh, yeah. I also checked out Trent Lott’s (R-dumbass) yard and there was nothing left but a foundation. Way to lead the rebuilding effort by example, dude. Maybe you can start with the porch and get chimpy down there to sit and contemplate his legacy for the next couple of years.
RE Insurance Companies and weasel words:
Not in the same league, but I had surgery many years ago and jumped through all of Blue Cross’s requirements – second and third opinions, letters from each doctor along with opinions, approval from BC 10 days prior.
Three weeks after, the hospital started calling me for payment. BC had refused to pay because one of the doctors used a signature stamp on her letter instead of a original.
It was eventually straightened out, they got paid, and then it happened again, same story just a different niggling reason to not pay ( the hospital didn’t itemize their bill in the way they like it).
THey count on a certain percentage of people being too poor, too sick, too uninformed to challenge them. And they lie about it.
Insurance is gambling. You can never hit the insurance jackpot. The game is rigged.
Any day is a good day when ideas are being discussed.
I apologize if this was noted before but Jane Hamsher was quoted in this article about Keith Olbermann in my Sunday paper and it mentioned his participation in the comments here a while back.
Trent Lott is part of a class action lawsuit against his insurance company.
Also introduced some insurance reform legislation about a month ago…I haven’t read it though
Gene Taylor is trying to do something other than rebuild Lott’s porch and refurbish his noose.
http://www.house.gov/genetaylor/
Thanks, dear mod, appreciate the assist.
Forgot to refresh the browser, my bad!
Compare. President Carter to George Bush.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 80
my brain just exploded!
angie – appreciate that on Gene Taylor; that should be the list of Action Items for every legislator in the Gulf Region.
try getting coverage in the Ny City, Brooklyn and long Island area.
Somebody last year designated this a high risk area for hurricanes last year and getting insurance, once yours ended was near impossible for some people.
Bravo, Siun! More from the Olbermann article.
Clip that and put it in your notebook, Scooter. ;)
Thanks for another good post Christy. Hard as it is to read, it must have been #%&& to research and write.
Your ‘rant-y’ is spot-on for this topic imo. What earthly good could possibly come from sugar-coating at a time like this?!
Now’s a perfect time to lean on Dems, that other gang across the aisle, & even the [I=I”tweenkies”] – oldies & newbies alike, don’t-cha think? Give em a lil’ time to git organized – uh – and sworn in fgs, but why not start peppering them in the meantime with facts, sources, ideas and possibilities, show a little muscle…. eh?
anyone hear of that nifty tool, “spotlight”? ;->
Any FirePup in Minneapolis area? How’s the weather? Spouse has to fly in tonight for a meeting tomorrow. Wondered if I should rush out and get him some longjohns appropriate for business suits…
Heh.
Rayne @ 82
and beyond. ;)
you’re welcome.
I love President Carter’s facial expression upon hearing a question.
angie 88 — true, that…like an action item list for the legislators who represent 54% of Americans living within 50 miles of shoreline.
Or those who live in earthquake zones or near rivers or in Tornado Alley or in blizzard country…
Yeah, so were the folks I spoke with.
Bet he wouldn’t have signed the reform legislation one is his house didn’t float away.
scout prime @ 77
Oklahoma kiddo @ 88
It’s like a little one on Christmas morning! Just so open and joyful.
And the bolo tie.
TeddySanFran @ 67
JANE! Hear Hear! Perfect!
if his
angie @ 92
Well said.
Another great post, Christy.
I saw a Frontline (IIRC) episode about federally guaranteed insurance for hurricane-prone coastal areas (barrier islands), which was substantially subsidized by the Gov’t. The main point was, why do we want to subsidize rebuilding in such areas when they will be predictably destroyed again?
I get that the situation in NOLA is different and how vital the Port is to our economy, but my thought is:
Perhaps the insurance industry is looking for similar guarantees in NOLA and other areas. It would really help the bottom line…
On the New Orleans question and insurers, Google the Drum Major Institute website. They did a seminar type study of insurance malfeasance and how to stop it perhaps a year or so ago. Unfortunately, I gave away my printed transcript to a politician who was interested.
Dammit. I’d love to know how to use the edit comment function. If someone could point me to or provide instruction, I’d greatly appreciate it.
T- @ 94
As New Orleans still flounders, Bush and his war machine are plotting a death star in the form of armed satellites.
Darth Cheney indeed.
-GSD
I can sympathize with the insurance companies here: There’s no point in rebuilding if you’re not going to fix the damn levee system. The insurance companies don’t want a bill for George Bush’s incompetence. Can you blame them?
RW at 60 — actually, I am very familiar with the defense bar stance on the insurance industry as well — lawyers represent both sides of the issues and there are, often, far too many illegitimate suits filed on behalf of folks who have bad claims that should never get past the smell test for law offices. But that said, most lawyers — and I do mean MOST — that I know who do plaintiffs work do a great job at sifting through the stuff that comes through the door and file legitimate questions and claims where the two sides just cannot come to any settlement agreement. Those are legitimate questions that can require resolution via arbitration, mediation or trial with a jury. And that is a good thing overall, I think.
But both sides of the issue — the plaintiffs bar and the defense bar, along with their clients — need to do a much better juob at acting on good faith. And that includes insurance companies refusing to settle a legitimate claim because then they might have to pay out on others, which does happen as well.
There are a LOT of questions that need to be asked on all sides — legitimate, real questions with hard, real world implications for people who desperately need help. And we need to start asking them.
T.
Just click on the edit comment button. You can delete or rewrite whatever needs fixin’. then save.
-GSD
T- @ 62
I have to disagree here. People on the Gulf Coast knew or should have known the difference between flood insurance and ordinary homeowners insurance (which covers wind damage) and a very high percentage of us had flood coverage. Flooding here has three primary causes: heavy rains in a short time (local effect, usually not too bad), river levee breach (think 1927), and hurricanes. I live in an area where flood insurance is required (my slab is about 1 foot below sea level) and the prudent will always carry flood insurance if they live in coastal areas subject to hurricanes. A lot of people simply were caught with their pants down: they gambled that they would not ever need flood insurance (and lost big) or they calculated that the cost of said insurance would (over the long run) be greater than the cost of rebuilding in the event of a flood. Of course, there are also those who simply could not afford flood coverage, and they do have my sympathy.
MayDaze…that is an important point. The insurance company is being frank in it’s assessment of the levees. If the federal government built better levees and had an urgency about it well then it may be a different matter for them.
The press should ask the Prez about this
President and Mrs. Carter will be buried in front of his house in Plains. James Earl Carter. A man for the ages.
It warms my heart to see, on all the threads, references to Jimmy Carter popping up absolutely everywhere. I watched the interview with Timmeh last night, and bits & pieces of that appearance, plus new ones & re-runs keep firing up over & over in new places.
At every step, the high level of respect he receives is palpable. Yes MSM. This is what a truly fine human being looks and sounds like! Listen and learn!
Bravo Jimmy!!! ;->
GSD @ 103
As long as you move quickly; “edit this comment” function expires, then the button disappears….
Frank Probst, I don’t blame the insurance cos. any more or less than I blame this stoopid govt– they are totally in each others pockets.
Conservation of lands and waters coupled with acknowlegement of global climate change and our human condition would be nice.
Rayne @
87
It’s cold (about 10F).
The movie that “gets” the insurance industry: Bob Parr
Oklahoma kiddo @ 106
Innn the meantime, may they enjoy continued good health for a long long time to come!
I read the other day that people are moving north in advance of the troubles which is now coming with global warming.
Anyone who watched the GOP respond to AIDS from the early 1980’s until today should not be surprised by the response to Katrina in this century. Same actors, same motives: reducing the power and thus the population of the underclass.
Balrog @ 110
you could try weather.com & type in zip for all sorts of weather maps. I know someone at zip# 55109 just outside St Paul. That ought to get you near enough to check it out.
AirportCat @ 104
I have a friend in Jefferson Parish who found out right before Katrina hit that his wife had cancelled their flood insurance “to save money”. He got on the phone and got it reinstated while the hurricane was in the Gulf. I was amazed that they let him do it. And they paid him for his claim. So AirportCat is right on this one – it’s common knowledge down there that flood insurance is separate.
TeddySanFran @ 114
true and the same is happening in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Palestine and Africa.
They just want the resources.
OfT:
Maybe BigTime carried a round-em-up list to King Abdullah last week.
I have to agree, insurance companies are very reality-based. That’s why they don’t insure people in high-risk fire areas in California anymore, at least not unless you get into the high-cost risk pools, called FAIR insurance.
T- @ 99
T- if you’re on Internet Explorer, it won’t work (at least, doesn’t work for me). Doesn’t matter if it’s IE6 or IE7 (I recently upgraded). I’m also on dial-up, if that has anything to do with it.
Everyone forgets that all (read every one of them) insurance companies threatened to leave California, and after that extortion effort proved successful (the earthquake insurance here covers something like $1000 of household goods, virtually nil for replacing your house – and it is mandatory!), we got the statewide office of Insurance Commissioner, and ultimately GOP Chuck Quackenbush fleecing all of us.
I’m so sick of all insurance companies, I could barf.
Tengrain
OfT:
Reverend Jim Wallis was on Brit Hume’s show yesterday after his address. I think this was a brilliant choice by Harry Reid; who’s listening to W’s Saturday radio address, anyway, except for authoritarian followers? Why not give them a real man of God during the time normally devoted to the Democratic response?
i imagine the drop-off from W to the Democratic is huge among radio listeners, but maybe some stayed tuned to Rev. Wallis. More here.
Christy,
Sorry, but your claim — that we need *all* of New Orleans because it’s a dock — is on the face ludicrous. We need a couple thousand workers there, and that’s all.
As for the rest of NO, believe me, I’m sorry for the position they’re in. But since the city was pretty much nothing but a tourist destination and since they clearly can’t afford the levees themselves (or they would have been properly provisioned before the storm), I think it’s time the country takes a long hard look at whether we want NO to be, well, under the water line. And since they want us to fork over the $5-$20 *billion* dollars to pay not reconstruction but just to allow them to live in that place, I think the US as a whole gets a veto. Move the city 5 miles or something, I don’t care, but there are large swaths of the US that don’t require $15 Billion or so in flood protection to live in. I haven’t seen any good reason for the US as a whole to pay to flood protect NO than the people like living there. Well, OK, but that’s no reason to bill *me* for their flood protection.
And your ‘ripples outward’ complaint — well, we have people asking for $15Billion for flood protection, or we have a couple thousand workers that need to drive 10 extra miles to get groceries. Wow, I’m thinking one of those costs is bigger than the other.
As for your ridiculous complaints about the insurance companies, why on earth would they offer to insure companies and property behind clearly insufficient flood protection? How is that any different than charity?
earl
Another great quote from the Incredibles, which I watch at a friends house the other night with his very high-end surround sound theater system. Very cool. The five-year old was delighted.
hush now earl.
gotta go gang.
get to go enjoy some pretty music tonite.
a balm for the soul.
good discussion today.
lots of caring folk at the lake.
also good for the soul.
thanks ;->
Hi earl and welcome (?!)
Bring facts and links, if you got ‘em, but characterizing the blogmistress’s claims and arguments as ludicrous and ridiculous won’t win you adherents.
marksb @
119
We live in a FAIR Plan area. One bonus, the premiums are really low! We have supplemental insurance that covers what FAIR Plan doesn’t and it’s actually just a tick less than we’d be paying in “the flats” (we live in the foothills).
I remember sitting on the sofa in our old house and watching the hills just a little to the west of my current house burn, in around 90 or 91. Santa Ana fueled, when the winds died down the fire just.stopped. about 1/2 mile from where we live.
FAIR Plan was absolutely necessary after insurers began leaving California in the Great Insurance Stampede. Gotta have insurance, lenders won’t lend unless you do, and the insurance WATBs ran away.
It’s been almost 12 years since any sizable earthquake has hit us in the Southland. P eople forget we were having subtantial quakes regular-like for a while – like all through the 80’s and early 90’s.
You’d think the insurance lobbyists would be bribing their government constituents to ensure the levees are safe and worth the risk.
Earl at 123 — at what point did I make any claim that we need all of New Orleans? That claim is nowhere in my article. Go back and read it again, a little more closely. What I said was that we need to ask a lot of questions as to how this is going forward — because they are NOT properly being asked right now, by anyone, and an ill-informed, off-the-cuff decision-making process with no transparency and little to no accountability is what got us into the mess in Iraq and the current Department of Homeland Security. And that should make NONE of us feel safe or secure.
Lieberman: Talking To Iran And Syria Is Like The ‘Local Fire Dept Asking Arsonists To Help’
I’m hardly an expert about rebuilding New Orleans- but I think the suggestion that we abandon it is probably a brain fart- It won’t happen..
The levees and other flood control stuff costs every bit as much for a New Orleans of 100,000 as it does for a New Orleans for a million as near as I can see. You either do it or you don’t- and once you do- well then the building lots sitting there will acquire a value- and developers will develop- cause that’s what developers do..
I don’t know how long it will take for New Orleans to regain it’s previous population- but it will happen eventually.
Ok, I found the book & CSpan panel discussion on the investigation on DHS. This is really worth watching.
Disaster: Hurricane Katrina and the Failure of Homeland Security
by Christopher Cooper, Robert Block
“Disaster: Hurricane Katrina and the Failure of Homeland security
AirportCat and MayDaze-
Appreciate your input, however, the house that I am referring to was not in an area where flood insurance was required for homeowners by mortgage lenders (ultimately fannie mae and freddie mac).
Trent Lott’s house was in that zone, and evidently, he’s part of the class action for not getting his claim paid due to this required “flood” insurance based on the insurance companies’ bullshit operational definition of “flood”.
The ladies living in that weren’t in any financial position to buy more insurance than was required which appears to be insufficient anyway. Good decision on their part.
How many of us have flood insurance that is not required (rhetorical)?
katymine 133
linky no worky?
Jeebus. Arguing that we don’t need a city because it’s little more than a tourist trap.
That argument could apply to most of the cities that 54% of Americans live in within 50 miles of a shoreline.
As the sign said, Our Fate is Your Fate. Imagine someone like Earl dissing your city because it’s just a tourist trap, and we don’t need your old port anyhow.
You’re in for it now, Earl.
The footprint of NOLA is and I think will be smaller. I doubt anyone would dispute that and I found residents realistic that this will be the case.
WaPo has a great series of op/ed pieces on whether Clusterfuck is or is not the worst president in history..
One says that he definately is- another that he’s only the fifth worst- and the last- by an ex Clusterfuck speech writer- that the returns aren’t in yet and maybe he won’t stink as much in fifty years as he does today (eternal optimist)..
Fun reading all!!
And earl, NO was a home to many, many Americans.
It’s surely not just a tourist destination.
but I am happy you had a good time on Bourbon St!
I am not getting the link to open CSpan???
Put this phrase in the CSpan search – Disaster: Hurrican Katrina
5th largest port in the World!
Supplies 34 US states with the transport of farm & other goods down the Mississippi River waterway and then ships goods back to those 34 states.
Why would BushCo allow the 5th largest PORT IN THE WORLD go just before the Dubia World Port brewhhaaa?
I haven’t been to Jazzfest yet, and its on my list of things to do before I die. New Orleans simply must be rebuilt.
If we can spend hundreds of billions of dollars to destroy the Garden of Eden, then we can afford rebuild New Orleans.
Carter says “we are stewards of the land”.
Rayne 135
flip of the nimby argument, sorta kinda?
sounded limbawl-esque to me… eh?
and don’t live here – mudslides
and don’t live here – earthquakes
and don’t live here – future toxic waste dump
and don’t live here – forest fires
and don’t live here – tornadoes
and don’t live here – icy roads
and don’t live here – busted levees
all-yer-own-fault
all-yer-own-fault
squawk….
““Disaster: Hurricane Katrina and the Failure of Homeland security.”…This is an xcellent book. I highly recommend it. The authors spoke at the NOLA bloggers conference. They did a tremendous job on this book and at the conference.
katymine 140
thanks.
Several blogs ago I was accused of being uninformed when I voiced my opinion that the Democrats did little or nothing before or after Katrina. Maybe those of you who are informed about what positive action the Democrats took/are taking on the Katrina catastrophe will share your knowledge.
drive-bye-bye, earl?
scout prime @ 144
I have watched the CSpan panel discussion twice, it should be required for every congresscritter. They should see and hear an independent evaluation of what a mess they made FEMA.
T- @ 141
T- I went to Jazzfest for the first time this past spring. It was a great time, definitely something you want to do at least once.
Sally @ 147
You fundamentally misunderstand the majoritarian impulses that drove the minority Congressional Democrats into complete impotence. Watch ‘em post-1/2/07. Then come back and tell me about Democratic inaction and incompetence.
I suspect that the net effect of the destruction of New Orleans will be it’s “gentrification”
The same forces that led to the gentrification of much of Washington DC will be at work in New Orleans- but with one difference- It’s an INSTANT project…
The old neighborhoods that drew down property values are GONE– and it’s a city that is ROMANTIC- and HISTORIC..
It’ll be filled with upscale white people who will be forced to pass ordinances against Starbuck!!
Disney will be called in to design the architecture for the new developments and New Orleans will end up being it’s own living satire.
TeddySanFran
;->
katymine @ 148…so true. I really wonder how much has changed at DHS.
And Bush came in in 2001 and began cuts and policy changes that just ruined FEMA. What happened was inevitable. the question is have we learned
TSF @ 151, I’m not buying that so snark on.
Sally at 147 — The Dems in the House were substantially blocked from doing anything due to the way the House rules essentially silence the minority unless and until the majority allows them a say. Outside of the Dem Working Group between both the House and Senate Dems, there wasn’t much action from the House, unless the GOP committee leaders scheduled an oversight show hearing — which was pretty much nil on Katrina beyond a couple of short, let’s all go on camera posing festivals. In the Senate, however, it was a little better in terms of what could be done. There were a LOT of floor speeches, but none of the meaty legislation proposed ever got out of the Homeland Security committee chaird by Susan Collins of Maine and co-chaired by Lieberman. All the meaty bits got stripped out before anything ever got to the full floor of the Senate. It’s a mess across the board — but in large part because the rubber stamp GOP leadership blocked a lot of the oversight action to protect the flank of the White House.
I’m hoping for better on this come January, but I have yet to hear much of anything on oversight hearings planned on this issue. And I am VERY worried about what will not be done under Lieberman’s less-than-watchful eye in the Senate.
Sally- I really don’t remember what dems did or didn’t do. Why is it important?
rwcole…one thing I think many people don’t realize probably because so much media focus on the 9th Ward is that middle class and upper middle class areas were destroyed as well. The Lakeview section is just horrible and was home to 40% of NOLA’s tax base
Sally @ 146
Please define which Democrats, big D or little D?
The little “D’s” did tons, here in Phoenix, we deployed National guard, firefighters, and medical teams. We had fund raisers for evacuees where our local Air America station took in 9 truck loads(one ton truck) of “NEW” clothing, personal care items, formula & baby stuff. THAT is just Phoenix. Randi Rhodes partnered with Habitat for “Change for Change” to fund building homes. We found jobs, housing and support statewide for Katrina evacuees.
AND regarding the big “D”, explain exactly to me Sally what could the minority party could do? Explain to me exactly how they could enact laws, funding and other support in the minority?
Sally @
155
Not buying what, Sally? That the Democrats have controlled neither the pursestrings nor the agenda for the last 12 years? Not saying Democrats are the second coming or anything, just…what do you expect them to have done?
scout- Yes of course many wealthy white areas were damaged too- no matter..
Bottom line is- you’ve got a developer’s wet dream- thousands of acres of building lots with much of the infrastructure already in place in a city that is highly desirable to much of the public (Would ya rather be in Wichita, Kansas or New Orleans, La.?)
This will turn into a building boom-
TeddySanFran @
148
Now that’s a keeper.
mb — per cnn, the worst weather in america today is santa ana winds up to 60 mph gusts headed right for the california coast from inland. from santa barbara to sandiego. considering the choices available today — heartattack snow across the heartland! — please be safe.
oh, and sally, i ain’t selling. snark on your own self!
RBG @ 162
to the levee!
One of the most shameful aspects of the response was FEMA passing the responsibility to collect the dead onto the state. The arguing over this between state/feds was immediate and went on for many months. 11 months out they were still finding remains in homes.
In my research I have found that there really was no one responsible for collecting bodies in a disaster. Debris of every sort yes…bodies no.
It was not in the Stafford Act or National Response Plan. I’ve yet to be able to find out if this has been changed
TeddySanFran @ 163
thanks, teddy. Coupla wind-whipped fires already today in Ventura County and sounds like up on the Grapevine, too.
Those winds are scary: when you’re sitting at a traffic light and your car begins to inch sideways, rattling all the way, into the next lane, it’s time to stop driving!
scout prime @ 153
During the Rodeo-Chediski fire in Arizona June 2002, I had an interesting view into FEMA. They came in mass to help with the relief effort for this fire, they rented a floor in the office building that I was working. Shared the coffee/cafe/elevator with many of the FEMA employees. This is before the formation of DHS but it was in the works. I heard many discussions between these employees discussing their options with the union busting, loss of benefits and other effects of the movement of the original FEMA employees prior to DHS. They were calculating if they had enough time in to retire and how to bail before they lost so much of what they were expecting or guaranteed in benefits.
So from the beginning in forming DHS, they lost the experienced FEMA employees who had enough time in service to retire.
Scout at 165 — I asked someone about that a few months back and I don’t think there has been any legislation passed to cover that or any new Administrative regs from the DHS. But it’s been a couple of months since I looked into it, so it’s possible that it was taken care of — but I doubt it, given that this has been the height of election season and the Congress wasn’t doing squat for weeks on end. SIGH Does anyone know the answer on this for certain?
Gang, can we PLEASE get along and not snark all over each other? I have literally had it this week and a day of people being nice to each other would be lovely, indeed.
The building industry is suffering a severe downdraft right now…New Orleans is an INCREDIBLE opportunity- but NOT if individuals hold onto their property and attempt to rebuild. Current property owners will need to be stampeded into taking their insurance settlements- such as they are- and sellin the lots at rock bottom prices…after gaining title- builders can arrange for massive govt assistance to “rebuild” New Orleans….
Just watch!!
T- @ 134
Just because flood insurance is not required doesn’t mean it isn’t a great idea to have it. And if it isn’t required, the premiums are often much less. Flood is flood, and homeowners insurance does not cover flood.
Dear all (and Christy):
Christy, you implied that we need to rebuild all of NO when you complained about the levees. There are chunks of NO above the water line (no levees required) and there is higher ground relatively close by. Hence, if you don’t want all of NO there, you don’t need levees. Tell people they have three choices: live in places above Lake whatever-its-called, live somewhere else, or pay for levees yourselves.
There is probably enough housing stock available in the city to run a dock, and if not, you can bus workers in from 10-20 miles away or build dormitories for a lot less than billions of dollars. In fact, for a lot less than a billion. I’m with you on questioning the government — we can be virtually guaranteed nothing was done properly — but we should be taking a long hard look at a cost / benefit analysis of having a tourist destination at NO. And frankly, there wasn’t much else there besides a lot of poverty.
I think it’s time for a lot of belt tightening across the US, and I don’t think we should go writing blank checks to cities that can’t afford to live where they do.
To be clear, I’m not suggesting that we not buy the lost houses from the former residents and help them get back on their feet. I just don’t think we should support them building under the water.
Angie, I’ve only been to NO very briefly, and I was never there as a tourist. And I understand it was home to many Americans — but that doesn’t mean we should fork over billions so people can live wherever they want. There are lots of places in America not under the waterline.
Teddy, my apologies for not replying immediately — I took all of an hour to do some work then come back.
katymine…they lost so much experience and it hurt them in Katrina. FEMA had terrible morale before Katrina imagine now.
Bush pushed the emphasis to outsource much to contractors and many of those FEMA employees did leave and took that expertise to the private sector so we can pay more for their expertise
“Drove my chevy to the Levee but the Levee was dry”
(so why was THAT a bad thing?)
rwcole @ 173
cuz the good old boys couldnt’ drink their whiskey and rye!
OK, one more time:
Christy: Pittsburgh. Visit.
That is all.
:-D
.
Christy I’ve not seen anything to show it was taken care of but may have missed something.
Mary Landrieu recently called for an overhaul of Stafford Act….perhaps it will happen ther
Mommy- No the good old boys WAS drinkin Whiskey an Rye–an Rye IS whiskey. Maybe they was drinkin it cause it was so dry?
rwcole @ 170
Spot-on. Just one thing to add: they’ll wait until a lot of people have defaulted on their mortgages to pick those properties up cheap, too.
Sally @ 147
On the one-year anniversary of Katrina, a delegation of 23 House Democrats — including Pelosi — came to N.O. to meet with local leaders and find out what they could do to help. They were not playing politics, they were genuinely here to help, and I can tell you from experience here that the visit did make a difference.
{{{{ katymine and phoenix! }}}}
Guess :
“Bye bye Miss American Net
Drove my Chevy to the Levee but the Levee was wet”
just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
CSpan: search for Katrina
House Democrats on Hurricane Katrina Relief Efforts
Representative Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and House Democrats talk about Hurricane Katrina relief efforts.
9/6/2005: WASHINGTON, DC: 25 min.
Taking my inspiration from Jane’s beach comment last nite (and apologizing to Christy for MY snark!) I’m heading for the whatever-its-called Ocean at the end of the streetcar by my house. A brisk walk on the beach throwing driftwood for the fiance to retrieve — that oughtta get the snark outta my system.
be pacific, all!
peace
=========
Who’s Next??
=========
rwcole @
179
I used to live in a “dry” county, Wise, in Virginia. REally, dry in name only. Gentleman’s clubs, where you paid a dollar a year and could drink all you brought in yourself, were bars in people’s basements, or shacks the “members” built themselves.
Back in the ’70’s, the sheriff there used to campaign for office with pint bottles of moonshine his brother’d made. He took them to the strip mining sites and passed them out, weekly, before elections.
I heard this week that a former mayor of Wise was on trial for 243 counts of election fraud – charged for each bottle of ’shine, each pack of cigs he handed out. Bet my sheriff and the mayor were related.
No doubt we’re way into EPU territory, but I think this paragraph near the end of today’s NOLA article sums up the engineering problem:
Essentially, it’s a problem of drawing up good specifications. If you don’t specify what you really need, you won’t get it. If you want a four-bedroom house but the blueprints show a three-bedroom house, you’ll get a three-bedroom house. The problem appears to be that the Corps of Engineers is having trouble figuring out how big a storm might be. They need to work on this before they start building that “100 year storm” protection, or they’ll end up rebuilding it.
I’d love to stay and chat, but I have to go. Thanks for the article, Christy.
Mommybrain @ 186
Virginia’s likker-by-the-drink was invented for Dulles Airport, iirc.
Looking at Carter now, on C-Span2, talking about the presidential candidates for the Democratic nomination for president for 2008, I may be sticking my neck out here, but I do not think that Clinton would be his choice. Am I wrong?
Of course I know the big “D’s” have not been able to govern in almost any area because the Republicans decided democracy would not be part of their mandate. It has been maddening to witness. My point is that television coverage showed the suffering at the Convention Center and elsewhere yet no government help came for the big “D’s” or the Republicans. I watched and asked, “Where in the heck are the (big D’s) Democrats?” And to me minority versus majority is not a reasonable explanation in this specific instance.
It’s important to me that the Democrats be held accountable now that they are in the majority and one of their priorities should be to appoint a hard-charger to do what needs to be done Katrina-wise, not an easy job.
I suspect the Christys and Scout Primes and others will help provide the concentrated focus on any progress or lack of progress made in the Katrina matter.
I appreciate the thoughtful comments.
Mommy–I lived in Dallas Texas for many years- In Dallas, every voting precinct gets to decide whether to be wet or dry- and what kinda dry ta be..
Fortunes were created when a previously dry precinct went “wet” and some enterprising sould had invariably just bought up retail space on the new “border line”..
Still the best places were drink were the dry areas–some of em allowed beer bars- so you could keep your wine or hard liquor in a locker there an they’d pour it for a song..
Dry restuarants were great too- bring yer own and they’d pour!!
scout prime @ 173
This outsourcing, IMHO, is part of what’s turned the DoD’s materiel programs into an unholy mess. It’s happening all over again at DHS now, it would appear.
Sally—nicely said.
I meant that as well said…although it was pretty nice too.
DefJef @
20
Nope. My dad always said it was a racket and I wholeheartedly agree.Christy Hardin Smith @
25
And not just FEMA trailers…panel houses, the mateial to assemble them was left uncovered and unused and it ruined…millions of dollars of it.
Sally, you still live in the world of “fair media”. I hear that comment a lot from newcomers to my DFA group. They start with “I never hear the Dems do this or that in the media” so they must NOT be doing something.
The issue is that what you are typing in right now is pretty much the only media format besides Cspan that the Democratic elected have had. When the general public finally realize that the MSN or Traditional medial is NOT fair and is very biased they there might be changes.
We have to search out for what Democrats are doing about specific issues because the phrase that applies is “Any Democratic evens WILL NOT BE TELEVISED” applies.
TeddySanFran sez:
Who’s Next??
Egypt’s gonna get one, too
.
omg s_i woohoo!
New thread, all.
i have asked this question before and i’ll ask it again:
Who are the biggest / worst TERRORISTS on the planet ??
some guy wearing a turban sitting in a cave somewhere or a bunch of greedy evil people wearing suits and ties ??
i know who i will be aiming at when the time comes.
Make levees, not war.
James Earl Carter for Prez. 08 YES !
The whole situation just puts the GOP and soon-to-be-former-Senator Santorum’s lack of empathy for anyone other than himself in perspective. When he toured areas of his state that were devastated by a 500-year flood two years ago, the senator suggested that these people should have had flood insurance. Flood insurance? There hadn’t been a flood in those parts for 500 YEARS, which predates the ENTIRE INSURANCE INDUSTRY! Now Traveler’s is calling it quits, period, in the Gulf Coast area. The Dutch could help us with their technology to make the area much more secure, but I have heard nothing about any Bush administration efforts to pursue this.
They. Just. Don’t. Care.
The edge of Katrina that destroyed NOLA’s levees was at most a cat one, possibly a strong TS. Those levees could (would?) have failed in a relatively weak storm from which hardly anyone would have evacuated. The death toll in that case would have been in the tens of thousands.
I feel like I stepped into a Socialist party meeting here, which is not usually the case, so I feel the need to speak up.
It is a free country, you may start an insurance company to cover whomever you want. Think there is a vast underserved population in LA? You should jump up and found NOLAssure Inc. to sell insurance. You are completely free to do so. No one is stopping you. I have a very strong suspicion that when you run the numbers you will decide to run for the hills, or at least slightly higher financial ground. Then you will understand exactly why these companies behave the way they do. They are accountants and mathematicians; a special breed of geek, you give them credit for far more evil than makes sense and you give the government far more credit for rational oversight than you are ever going to get.
This is just like health insurance. Make it a single payer system and you can b___ all you want to your congressperson to fix it. Short of that, you are free to compete and speak all you want with a business plan of your own.
As to “What’s going to stop them?” What are you talking about? Stop them from what? At some point they will run out of customers and will have to return to insuring higher risk groups to have any income growth. That’s the way this works. I for one welcome not footing the bill for people who insist on living in harms way. I have no problem helping people back onto their feet after a disaster, but repeated stupidity in city planning SHOULD be penalized. If the government doesn’t have the willpower then the private sector will kick in. If the government had the willpower the last thirty years to make better planning decisions we wouldn’t have to complain right now about satanist insurance companies.
For the record,
“Disaster: Hurricane Katrina” works as a search. What it gets you eventually is this RealPlay video, or wmv if that’s what you have rtsp pointing to.
(Katymine’s problem was that the direct link off the CSPAN page is a javascript.)
If global warming raises sea levels, rebuilding the bathtub in NOLA really does not seem worth it. As to developers and land values, the US real estate market is about to shift to resort areas and retirement colonies as the baby boomers retire. I guess the Barrier Islands could be a resort. Retire in the bathtub? Is there a mosquito problem? Will there be a mosquito-vectored disease problem as things heat up?
If y’all want to know more about flood insurance, here’s the NFIP. If your county chooses to join, and your property has one of the degrees of flooding potential, your mortgage company will require you to get flood insurance through the NFIP. This damage potential can involve river flooding, ocean flooding, reservoirs overflowing, dams collapsing, water table rising causes sewage to flood out of your toilet, …
My homeowner insurance was $400/yr, my flood was $600/yr. I think I had the priveledge of funding the rebuilding of hurricane coastal mansions.
http://www.fema.gov/business/nfip/
Late comment but…
There is a theme in all the things about insurance I have been learning. For some reason, whatever reason. Orleans Parish is getting the brunt of these cancellations. Why isn’t Jefferson Parish, also protected by the same shoddy levees being blackballed like Orleans.
Why are the few insurers left refusing to give a quote if the home received “any” amount of flooding. What does flooding have to do with hazzard?
The insurance thing is lunacy and if it makes me have to move to Houston I will be suicidal like the rest of this fucking town.