We're running a little late in the Smith household this morning. What has caught your eye in the news this morning? Here's what grabbed me in the last few minutes of reading:
– UK scientists are monitoring a fourth plane for traces of radioactive material. Is this starting to sound awfully John LeCarre to you, too?
– Just why was the Maliki/Bush meeting cancelled anyway?
– There is a disconnect between the Bush Administration and the ISG. That could make for an interesting January.
Please consider this an open thread.
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Not fritz?
Webb!
Morning, Christy. Blizzard coming to Oklahoma today.
‘Morning, Christy! wondered how you’d be faring this morning after burning the midnight oil.
Storm coming here in MI, too, MayDaze, but I think you are going to be closer to the worst part of it than we are here. Batten down the hatches!
The Indictment
This is good…
George will decries the lack of civility in Washinton:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01267.html
I plan to respond by asking George where was his faux outrage when the Vice President of the United States-on the Senate floor-told his colleague, Senator Jim Leahy, to “go fuck himself?” And where was George’s faux outrage when the Vice President said “it felt good” to tell his Senate colleague to “go fuck himself.”
Tell me, George, how is what Dick Cheney did somehow acceptable, and a parent’s fear for the life of their child not?
I see George Will finds Jim Webb a “boor” for is attitude towards Bush. Boo-hoo-hoo!
George Fwill decries the lack of civility in Washinton:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2006/11/29/AR2006112901267. html
I plan to respond by asking George where was his faux outrage when the Vice President of the United States-on the Senate floor-told his colleague, Senator Jim Leahy, to “go fuck himself?” And where was George’s faux outrage when the Vice President said “it felt good” to tell his Senate colleague to “go fuck himself.”
Tell me, George, how is what Dick Cheney did somehow acceptable, and a parent’s fear for the life of their child not?
Yeah, Rayne, were supposed to get 5-12 inches depending on location in the state. OK is not equipped for any significant accumulation, so the only sensible thing is to stay home.
Snow here yesterday in northern Arizona, then just damn cold today!
mc @ 8
Notice how, immediately, Will puts in the “[sic]” after “them” – meaning that’s not quite what Webb said. Also, he did not quote W’s pithy response “That’s not what I asked”
AZ Matt @ 10
Same in the Land of Enchantment…
Good Morning Firedogs !
jeebus, further evidence the Chimpocalypse is on upon him -
yesterday, US Court rules against Insurance
CabalCompanies,this morning,
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/b…..125541.htm
yesterday -
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200…..surance_dc
how’s that whole, Karl as “Relief Czar” thingy workin’ for ya ?
The northeast on the other hand is freakishly warm. We may hit 70 F today. I keep putting off buying the tree because of the heat. I don’t want it to wilt.
NYC is having another fine spring day. I’m not kidding, high temps all this week in the low to mid 60s with rain and a chance of t-storms this afternoon.
I have no doubt we’ll be slammed with a hellacious winter starting next month but for now I’m enjoying it.
Oh yea the Mighty Wurlitzer has cranked up to protect us from penguins. That’s right according to cultural luminaries neil cavuto, bigot glen beck the greatest threat to our childrens is the environmental messages in the movie “Happy Feet.”
And now 2nd string culture warrior michael medved has jumped into the fray. If you haven’t yet you can go to Tbogg’s place and read his dissection of this moron and his lunacy
JF @ 11
Wurlitzer alive and well.
Cloudy from the snow yesterday until early this morn, then Sandia showing a beautiful coat of badly needed new powder. Hardly got a speck last winter.
morning… I was left mumbling to myself at the end of the last thread… I’m guessing the ISG’s recommendations will be out of date before the report is ever released…
things are changing too fast in Iraq
who wants coffee?
lhp – a pyromaniac puppy? how does he light the matches with those stubby little fingers?
Welcome to southern Minnesota, where the temp will reach 80 degrees today. Sky is clear. Breeze is balmy. Our taxes are low and likely to go lower. Our Republicans will be phased out gradually, beginning in January. We are happy, sturdy peasant stock. (The preceding message was brought to you in Bush-think — a delusional way of viewing reality.)
high winds, cold air mass here in So. Cal. – take away everyone’s matches!
OldCoastie @ 18
No matches. When we have a fire in the fireplace, she moves the spark screen and grabs a flaming sick and runs through the hous with it. When the fire is out, she breaks into the fireplace to eat charcoaled wood. She LOVES charred wood.
I don’t know if the stealling the flaiming wood is related to the char eating or because she has found out that this is great way to get EVRYBODY to pay attention to her. She seems to think it is a great game.
The last couple weeks it has been so wrm in NY that we haven’t had a fire. She sometimes sits in front of the cold hearth and wimpers
Mornin.’ I had been feeling sad about Kissell conceding in NC-08, but people cheered me up at the bottom of the last thread. Plus he is running for next time. NC-08 in ‘08! Or something.
Webb just keeps making me happy. He is the real thing. Washington is gonna be in shock.
The most ridiculous part of the whole exercise is the premise that Maliki “lacks a sense of urgency” to reach a political settlement and what is needed is to “light a fire” under his ass by threatening to pull out the troops.
This is patent nonsense. It isnt a lack of will or a lack of urgency that is the problem. It is that there is no way to get to a political settlement when none of the parties want one and there is no credible threat of force to make them do it. You could get the most hard-ass politician in the world in that job and it would still be impossible.
Threatening to pull our troops out or actually doing it (which I hope they do ASAP) wont cause Maliki to broker a settlement among the dozens of splintering factions – It will drive him further into the arms of whichever one he thinks he is safest with – and at the moment this seems to be Moqtada al Sadr. And what will be the difference from our point of view?
- The civil war will continue – but it will go on anyway whether or not we stay
- The Iranians will have a lot of power since they back Sadr – but they already do anyway
- All hell will break loose – but that is already happening
- Our troops will be out of the way and THAT is the one thing we have to power to change
Apart from this, we have no control over anything that happens inside Iraq. All that remains for us is to choose whether or not to have our soldiers in the middle and to do our best to influence what the various regional neighbors do about the descent into chaos that is now well under way.
re my #21
Even for me, that was a wonderland of typos and misspellings….sigh
grabs a flaming stick and runs through the hous with it
Yikes!!!
There’s a political joke in there somewhere, people running around setting things on fire. Except that they aren’t cute.
klevenstein @ 5
Things in there I never knew about. It is pretty damn good.
lhp – oh NO! running thru the house with flaming logs is always a bad idea! (hilarious but frightening!)
looseheadprop @ 24
We hold you in great affection, and that’s part of the reason why. Never change.
There are fixed fireplace screens.
steve kyle @ 23
Last night I heard the former Iraqi press secraty on (NewsHour maybe?) TeeVee saying the problem for Maliki is that constitutionaly the Prime Minister is avery weak almost powerless office and because the parliment is so fractured he cannot put together enough votes in the parliment to actually get anything done.
The Iragi gov’t has TOO MANY politcal parties, so there is not enough consolidated power to actually accomplish anything.
Somehow that explaination struck a chord in me.
there are glass doors for fireplaces that puppies would have trouble opening…
I am watching the Litivenko story closely; there’s much more going on here than meets the eye.
Did anybody else notice the reports that the former Russian PM also took mysteriously ill after a visit to Ireland?
Or that traces of polonium were found at Boris Berezovsky’s offices in London?
Looks to me like somebody tried to take out the “oligarchs” in one fell swoop…but it’s early yet. The ties between these folks and the assassination of Anna Politkovskaya muddy this picture; is this about political dissent, or about money? Both?
It’s going to make a great movie eventually.
If the ISG’s recommendations are ignored by the preznit do they exist?
At least Bush is getting tough with North Korea: No more iPods!
egregious @ 25
I said she was a danger to heath and home.
But very cute. We have a doggie gate to keep her out of the lving room, plus the sprk screen in front of the fireplace. She has figured out how to defeat them both.
She is a very clever puppy. She can do all sorts of Lassie/Rin Tin Tin stuff. Very entertaing, but also very dangerous.
I found the DemocracyNow! interview with Peter Lance provocative.
I am still not satisfied with the 9.11 narrative everyone seems to be operating under. There’s definitely more than meets the eye there. And I suspect it may be more than incompetance and “dropping the ball”.
Apparently the USA spook agencies had a fair amount of double agents in AQ and much of what WE KNEW back then is being buried. I want to know what went down… but they will all claim state secrets and cover up the truth.
This and other lefty blogs don’t want to touch 9.11 with a ten foot pole… what gives with that? As soon as this topic comes up… it is branded tin foil territory and go away old news stuff.
How can people with half a brain accept the 9.11 report “rubbish”??? Zelikow who ran the show is in pretty deep with H the K and CondiPoo. It smells real bad?
Anyone else buy the accepted conspiracy BS of the 9.11 comnmission.. the one where bush and cheny held hands and bush sat on cheney’s lap and they did the vetriloquist thing and no notes were taken and condi didn’t have to tell the truth officially on the record?
Leslie @ 33
They could still give the Dems some cover to challenge “stay the course”, which is apparently not going away.
rayne – yes, would like to know the real litivenko story.. wonder if we ever will…
today i’m feeling in a fog – so many things that don’t make sense… another one is cheney being summoned to saudi arabia. lots of speculation – but i have no evidence by which to judge the various hypothesis.
Okay, just back from reading Will’s tirade on the loss of civility. He spends half of his column complaining about the first paragraph of Webb’s WSJ op-ed and his use of rhetorical devices to get a point across.
Webb’s use of the word “literally,” for example is an excuse for Will to show that he knows the actual definition of the word, never mind that the use of “literally” has been used for decades to mean “in effect” (according to dictionary.com), which is Webb’s point.
Will also cries that Webb gives no statistics, implying that reality does not support Webb’s hypothesis, when we all know that wealth for the top 1% has grown by leaps and bounds, while the other 99% has stagntaed, at best.
Then, comparing Webb to Humpty Dumpty in Through the Looking Glass” in a column about “civility”?
I think Will just jumped the shark.
MayDaze,
Do the Dems need cover after the election? A large majority of Americans want out of Iraq.
As promised, some Howard Dean Canadian Liberal convention links;
http://www.theglobeandmail.com…..tory/Front
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/…..2181442718
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story…..erals.html
lhp – your puppy sounds like my big guy – way scary smart – a terror as a pup, the most fabulous dog ever as a grownup… fortunately, the “new” puppy girl (10 months old now) is sweet and not nearly so bright. My life is much easier…
Morning all — will go back up through and catch up on the comments in a minute. Just got home from dropping The Peanut off at preschool. Am running about a quart low after being up until 2 am last night with the Late Nite thread, but I wanted to be sure that the morning crowd saw it and, if you have questions or comments that I can answer, feel free to ask them here. But be forewarned, I am running a little slow today. *g* Now, for more coffee and a bit of reading…
Leslie @ 39
Well, I don’t think they do, but some of them might like it.
moeman 40 — thank you very much for that! HoDo for breakfast, yay!!
Since this is an open thread, I thought it would be fun to contemplate an ancient Greek astronomical computer found in a sunken ship. 2100 years old, I believe.
http://www.latimes.com/news/sc…..-headlines
MayDaze — stay home and curl up with a good book and some hot cocoa. You’ll be thankful you did. I suppose that storm will be headed our way in a couple of days. :)
The ISG is only a political strategy to run the clock out a bit longer.
There is no silver bullet to end this one.
It’s now down to how to lose and claim victory.
In the end they will remain to secure the oil and let the rest go to hell in a hand basket… which may have been the original goal but they wanted us to believe that the democractic Iraq would gladly give us the oil we were going to “secure” anyway… So to hell with democracy.. we need the oil and Iran is next in line.
If they could all just kill themselves while we help ourselves to their oil… it would be mission accomplished squared.
It’s all kabuki theatre and them dems play it too… coming to a theatre near you… starts this january…
I thought “disconnect” was Chimpy’s perpetual state of being. If the ISG is advocating withdrawal, well I am glad that they are taking the suggestions of notable Dems and military experts seriously. Mwahaha.
DefJef @ 35
i listened to the peter lance interview also (imo, democracy now! is the best daily news program)….
more questions to add to the fog…. all i can conclude wrt 911 is that *something* is being covered up. could be relatively benign – or not.. but i again, i just don’t have the evidence to make any further conclusions…
today’s world requires a high tolerance for living with ambiguity.
Rayne at 4 — Am completely exhausted. Have been having a joint flare-up of late, and I was an idiot for staying up so late last night. But I’m glad that I did, the venting needed to occur.
OldCoastie @ 31
We were thinking of that, and then she started breaking into the bedrooms and we can’t figure out how. She isn’t tall enough to reach the doorknobs (though sha can jump that high) and they are the round kind, not the lever kind.
We are mystified. Especaiily since she defeates the freaking doogiie gate, which is specifically meant to be dog proof.
Her grand father, he wone his champion points in the least number of shows you can possibly do it in. Magnificent dog. Well Uno was a terror for the first 2 years of his life. We had a screen porch with glass jaluosie windows–he would run into them and butt his head until a galss slat would crumble. Then he would eat the ground glass.
One time he ate a contracter’s steaal cased drill. Each time, I would get hysterical thinking this poor animal was goig to diie a horrific death. Nope.Digestive system of a billy goat.
Uno used to completely trash the house if we didn’t crate him when we went out–tear up sofas, overturn big tables, it look like their had been an invasion.
About a week after his 2nd birthday. It jsut stopped. He beame THE MOST placid, reliable, non house wrecking dog. doesn’t ever need aleash, doesn’t ever cause a problem. Complete personality transplant.
Most of my almost ex-husband’s dogs become these placid, sweet tempered creatures arounf their 2nd birthday.There is obviously some time triggered gene in their bloodline.
The trick is surviving until then.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 46
Oh, I’m definitely going nowhere fast!
mc at 6 — ah yes, George Will, a Miss Manners concern troll who only gets half the facts on this one. It is sloppy and condescending, and beneath his analysis to write something like that — and I do wonder about the lack of mention of Dick Cheney’s proclivity to hurl expletives at people at will. But then, if a conservative does it, I suppose it’s a-okay?
DefJef @ 35
Got a link to this interview?
Has anyone seen the new T Rowe Price commercial?
You’ll earn big money if you (wait for it)
Stay the Course!
Now who might their customers be?
lhp –
My cat used to love the fireplace – watching it when lit, walking through the ashes when not lit. Then he brushed by a candle and ran through the house with his tail on fire (the place smelled like singed fur for a week. Now, he keeps his distance from any flames.
Georgie sez Malaki is “right guy” for Iraq.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITI…..index.html
The Prime Minister should probably start packing his bags…
lhp – well, good luck! with my guy, I thought “he will be better when he turns a year”, then I adjusted it up to 18 months, then 2 years… then he finally turned into the beauty he is at about 30 months…. it was a long, LONG road and turn much of my hair grey… we did a LOT of training which I think only saved my sanity. and he was very, very funny….
but he is much like a person in a fur dog suit and just a joy…
lhp said:
Last night I heard the former Iraqi press secraty on (NewsHour maybe?) TeeVee saying the problem for Maliki is that constitutionaly the Prime Minister is avery weak almost powerless office and because the parliment is so fractured he cannot put together enough votes in the parliment to actually get anything done.
Juan Cole said something similar today, along with the following:
The no-show was presumably Maliki’s protest against the highly critical memo of US National Security Council adviser Stephen Hadley about Maliki, leaked to the New York Times and published on Wednesday. Maliki needn’t have bothered. Informed experts find the memo mediocre at best and wholly impractical at worst. I have to say I was shocked at Hadley’s lack of understanding of the parliamentary system in which Maliki works, such that his government could easily fall.
Some have also speculated that Maliki minded discussing bilateral US-Iraqi affairs with King Abdullah II of Jordan in the room, and was annoyed at the Jordanian monarch’s attempt to insert the Israeli-Palestinian issue into the talks.
Maliki may also have intended to show he was his own man, in the face of heavy criticism from the Sadr Movement members of parliament and of his own cabinet.
This makes more sense to me than the idea that Bush snubbed Maliki.
I don’t mind a bit of ambiguity.. it’s the lying and cover ups and obfusgation and CYA stuff that pissee me off.
Non accountability is as amirican as apple pie.
We’ve been stuffing our faces with that one way too long.
Capitalism sucks and why is everyone in america afraid to say so? It beings wealth to a few and misery to the many… and there’s hardly anything free about free markets… now is there.. Tell the truth.
Rayne @ 32
Rayne this is beginning to sound like an Alan Furst novel.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 50
christy – so sorry you are not feeling well today. hope some rest will set you straight.
i haven’t been up for late nite in sometime, but yesterday i couldn’t sleep (coughing from the tail end of what was probably the flu) and so caught the meta thread. i’m glad i did, and many thanks for your participation.
That’s a good one. George Will calling someone else a pompous poseur. What balls. I good not help but chuckle. He, the most insufferable pretentious pompous ass of them all. A snob and faux everything.
Bravo to Webb for not being a hypocrite!
Civility? George Will, you write about civility and this administration in the same breath?
Hey, how about this for Bush “civility”?
“The Bush administration unconstitutionally denied aid to tens of thousands of Gulf Coast residents displaced by hurricanes Katrina and Rita and must resume payments immediately, a federal judge ordered yesterday.”
Try this:
http://www.democracynow.org/ar…..29/1438234
DemocracyNow! is the best source of news in the nation. LISTEN daily!!!
mrsmarks @ 57
I am beginning to think that Chimpy’s vote of confidence usually means that person is about to be fired like Brownie and Rummie.
selise, DefJef — the coverup could be something as simple as the gross inadequacy to which Al Gore has referred: the failure to respond appropriately to the 06-AUG-01 PDB, along with previous warnings from Tenet, Clarke, FAA et al.
They simply didn’t do their damned jobs and a small amount of scratching uncovers this. It’s easier for them to use the overbroad “tinfoil moonbat” label to undermine and discredit any attempt to dig below the cracked veneer.
But if we can’t get below the veneer, we can’t begin to ask the more troubling questions (like what really happened to WTC-7?).
JF @ 56
My husband says, just wait until she burns herself, that’ll teach her, but I don’t want her injured or my living room ablaze to see her learn. It’s an issue on my mind right now b/c you gotta know the puppy’s gonna be fascinted with the X-mas tree. I see real potential for heartbreak there.
all right, time for the shower… everyone stay warm, dry and safe today…
lhp – give that bad puppy a kiss for me… he brings back memories!
I’ve been long absent.
I can’t read the George Will piece for fear of throwing up but my husband was enraged. Will was critiquing Webb’s grammar. My husband (reminding me again why I love him so) was on Lexis to see if Will has ever written about Bush’s slaughter of the English language.
And Republicans commenting on civility? Yeah there’s Cheney, but there’s also proof here in the former confederate capitol Virginia, that Virginians do not find racial slurs (macacca) civil. I think Will swallowed a bitter pill after the congress went blue.
OldCoastie @ 58
That’s how Uno is now.He is the best person to talk you troubles over with. He is a person in a dog suit.
The puppy thinks she is another kid. Tries to get on the school bus with littleprop. When my husband read the WSJ in the morning she gets an old newspaer out of the recycling and sits and stares at the newspaper as if trying to read it. She thinks she is people.
I think we need to make sure Mr. Will gets a lot of mail on this–civil mail but mail nonetheless…
ceci at 63 — I heard about that decision a bit on NPR this morning in the drive over to preschool. I’ve been hearing from a number of our regular readers in the Gulf region about the horror that is FEMA paperwork, but the fact pattern that they briefly laid out in the news report — and the judge’s angry order that they step up and do their freaking jobs — was really beyond what anyone would expect a callous, nasty bunch like the Bush Administration to do. Just when I think they cannot sink any lower…but then, I ought to be used to it by now.
Our spooks are well paid and perfect lapdogs to their corporate paymasters. Once you do your stint in gove.. you get to make the big bucks on K street in the consulting groups… These guys are all working for corporations to bring home the bacon…
Read Sibel Edmonds:
http://www.justacitizen.com/
she lays it oot pretty nicely. She’s gagged by the official secrets act… so when she opens her mouth she will be found dead soon.
People with loose lips don’t get sing well.
here’s the link to peter lance interview.
democracy now! is on tv, radio, internet video and via podcast. i podcast.
CHS at 53:
G’mornin’ to you. I love calling him George Fwill. It’s so…so…uncivil.
*g*
Rayne @ 66
agree completely.
That last line of Will’s column about “clear speaking” was unbelievable. George Will is the worst writer to have any real estate on an editorial page. Has anyone ever read a George Will column without having to go back to the first paragraph to remind yourself what the hell he was supposed to be talking about?
truly amazing audacity – even for DC.
CHS 72 — “step up and do their freaking jobs”
That is the problem with this entire administration, encapsulated in 7 little words.
They don’t do the jobs outlined in the Constitution, only what they personally interpret their jobs to be.
They don’t do the jobs appointed to them, but something else altogether when they do.
They don’t plan for anything, only respond to their own twisted perception of reality and let the devil take the hindmost.
They don’t do the simplest of things, like keep people safe.
Elizabeth de la Vega’s prepared indictment only captures a portion of the problem; I wonder if gross negligence isn’t indictable, too?
gotta go to work now. catch you later. Thanks for the links.
Buried in the bowels of our paper, J-LIE crashes into a videogame press event, ever vigilant–amid Iraq turmoil, the roiling world situation, the warming of the earth, et al–for his MAJOR ISSUE in the quest for relevance
J-LIE…most self-serving, whiny Senator ever.
Soon-to-be pariah of both parties….
DefJef at 73 — you know, I take some exception with that, having worked in a capacity that required me to often have interaction with FBI and DEA agents. And I found none of them, not one, with whom I worked to be anything less than incredibly committed to doing their job and doing it well. Perhaps it is a function of where I live and the sort of folks that enjoyed being stationed in WV, but there you have it. Certainly, some are too zealous in the way they do their jobs in any number of places, or corrupt or what-have-you — but you show me any workplace anywhere where you don’t find that as well. I mean, honestly, the whole conspiracy theory notion that the entire FBI is made up of agents who are only out for themselves is utter crap — and I could rattle off a long list of names, and the tireless hours on truly difficult and heart-wrenching cases that they put in trying to solve them, to prove otherwise.
Sibel Edmunds problems were with management types at the top of the food chain in DC, a lot of whom are political appointees or who rise to that level because they know how to court favor with the political types. Which is true for just about every governmental bureaucracy, anywhere, frankly. But it’s also true for just about any large corporate entity, having worked in a number of them and kept my eyes and ears open over the years. And even in dinky little municipalities where folks suck up to the mayor for better parking slot assignments. Human nature is what it is.
Transparency helps, as does holding people’s feet to the fire for accountability. But stereotyping an entire group of people because of a story you read or hear somewhere — with no real world understanding of how things work day to day, no spending time with people on the job as they are doing it — just does not make the conspiracy theory correct, no matter how well someone tries to stack up a house of cards from the outside looking in. It is awfully easy to second guess when looking backward at how things are handled — but in the moment, when you are standing in the midst of the horrible whirlwind that is a murder investigation or a terrorism plot or what have you, it can be incredibly difficult to know the best path clearly — and it is far more heartbreaking than you can know unless you have been there if you find out that you selected the wrong path at some point. Beccause far too often the consequences are the loss of another life…and another…and you have to live with that on your own conscience when that happens. Or when you’ve put someone in jail who does not belong, having thought that it was the right thing to do. Or any number of other things that you have to deal with in law enforccement and investigative work.
It is never, ever easy — and having had nights where I woke up in a cold sweat, worried about kids in an abusive household or a juvenile matter wherein we may have made a close call on treatment options or any number of other really difficult calls, it is an incredibly tough road to walk, day in and day out. And they deserve a helluva lot more thanks and admiration for being able to continue to do the work than they often get.
If you have a link to the Lance interview, I would also be interested in listening to it.
DefJeff,
excusemeexcusemeexcuseme, as a regular, you should recall that this -
Press For Truth
http://video.google.com/videop…..4255077250
(1 hour 24 min. if you haven’t seen it)
has been linked and trumpeted here – without a single shoutdown, a gajillion times *g*
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11…..ref=slogin
US settles with Brandon Mayfield for $2 million
AND
The settlement specifically excludes any further action regarding the constitutionality of the Patriot Act.
Masyfield is the best counter argument to trusting the Feds to use expanded powers judiciously.
He was guilty of converting to Islam and defending a suspected terrorist’s child custody fight.
Period.
Regarding the Litivenko story . . . does it strike anyone as odd that there does not appear to be radiation detection devices in Russian airports (or European airports for that matter). What exactly are they checking for? Isn’t nuclear material being smuggled out of Russian suppose to be a major concern?
DefJef — I’m with Christy in re: your comments about spooks. One need only look at the efforts of the V.I.P.S. including Ray McGovern to know that there are real American patriots at work for us, who continue to be dedicated to our country even after their retirement.
But I think there is room here to agree; the efforts of the CIA in the run-up to the Iraq War are obscured to the public at large, because they didn’t agree with the Administration’s desired outcomes, as one example. It wasn’t the spooks that did the obscuring. If it’s possible for this to happen in relation to a war, it’s possible for it to happen in myriad other areas of government, particularly whereever political appointees have been chosen solely for partisanship and not ability.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 81
see my link fest at 74
i think, to keep an open mind, one must also consider the possibility that this is directed at undermining fitz. not claiming it is so… it’s just that i have no way (at this time) to judge either the source or the evidence…. and experience has taught me that my assumptions can be very wrong…
We need film of the moment when Bush says to James Baker “But I’m the Decider.”
bad formatting @ 83 fixed
and
Thanks Christy @ 81
Law Enforcement and Intelligence personnel are not Keystone Cops or the X Files’ Cancer Man.
They are people who, for the most part, do a very difficult job for not the greatest wages.
See the Brandon Mayfield story for the cure to abuses.
Fight back against systemic changes which enable abuse.
This is the way to change.
selise at 86 — Larry Johnson has had some personal contact with Mr. Lance — when Lance was working in a journalistic/writing capacity, and has posted some of his observations on No Quarter. They make for an interesting read. And I’ve heard similar things from other folks who e-mailed me about him. I’ve never met Lance, and I’ll try and make time to listen to the interview in the next couple of days and see what he has to say for himself. I have gotten the impression that this may be a lot of self-promotion at whomever’s expense it takes to do it, but that’s just based on several people’s e-mails and not any personal knowledge — so listening to him directly will be useful. Thanks much for the link.
Note the story (front page of NYT this morning) on plans to get a $100 wifi-equipped laptop into the hands of every child in the Third World.
po 84 — hmm. Interesting.
But would it really be that difficult to move radioactive materials around if one didn’t use airports at all? Just sayin’…
I don’t know much about radiation detection, have a lot to learn about the topic; is it possible this is the reason for using polonium versus any more likely radioactive agent?
Christy,
The discussion with defjef is exemplary of why you stayed up late to hear nothing about yourself.
Strong writing need not explictly dissrespect the opposing viewholder.
You attack the argument not the arguer.
A preferable approach in my estimation.
Not that I don’t enjoy the odd bit of snark…
now to pretend to be productive here at work…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 89
transcripts are available also – if that is easier for you. in the interview, amy goodman (national treasure, imo) does ask about larry johnson’s claims (and doesn’t let peter lance off the hook when he doesn’t answer the substance of her question.
Mack at 92 — thanks. It is a habit that I developed from courtroom work — the lawyer at the other table may be a bloviating asshole, but you can’t say so on the record in court. ;-) (And no, I don’t think that way about DefJef, just to be clear.) But cutting their argument off at the knees, in as sweetly put a way as I could, always made the asskicking all the better, because they never saw it coming. *g*
Wasn’t the category of material involved with Litivenko one of Plame’s field that were being stopped, controlled or monitored successfully?
My letter has already gone to the editor about will’s hit piece. Not that it will do any good. Potomac Pravda is so much part of the rethug machine now that I’ve refuse to buy another copy.
Prairie at 80 — do you have a link on the Lieberman video game party crasher story? Would love to take a peek at it.
Christy @ 81:
Sibel Edmunds problems were with management types at the top of the food chain in DC, a lot of whom are political appointees or who rise to that level because they know how to court favor with the political types. Which is true for just about every governmental bureaucracy, anywhere, frankly. But it’s also true for just about any large corporate entity, having worked in a number of them and kept my eyes and ears open over the years.
Exactly spot-on. I was a federal employee for over 26 years and an AFGE union officer for quite a few of those. Practically all the problems I dealt with were caused by ambitious management officials who were sucking up to the politicos to get ahead.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 94
but christy, it doesn’t feel like an asskicking. it feels like having a serious disagreement all the while paying attention and respecting another person’s views.
Where’s George Will’s article on Bush/Cheney calling voting for democrats is voting for terrorists? I guess that’s considered civil.
Don in Brooklyn @ 90
Very nice, but how do you eat the thing?
Would this qualify as irony?
The junta is ordering up new questions for the citizenship test
One of the questions is: “What are the 3 branches of government and why do the exist?”
The answer per alberto Torquemada gonzalez:
The Executive, to make all decisions and hold all power
The legislative to rubber stamp the decisions
the judicial to declare the decision constitutional
I would like to send a message to Webb congratulating him and giving him my support, but I cant seem to find any email link to his offices. I can contribute to his campaign fund, which I am not loathe to do, but I would like to send him some verbal support as well. Does anyone have such a link?
selise at 99 — oh, I don’t generally get to the level of asskicking in the comments here, because I genuinely enjoy the give and take of discussion on the issues. The asskicking comment was about my courtroom work. *G* But the habit of debating something in that demeanor translates very well, I think, to discussion here: it keeps things on an even keel and focused on the issues, not personalities, which in my mind is how things ought to be for serious subjects. Not to say that some snark isn’t warranted (lord knows I throw it around with abandon some days…lol), but I try to keep an even hand about it in the comments because I’m just not comfortable doing this any other way.
It is my personality, that’s all. It’s not some conscious, forced and false thing — it’s just who I am, I suppose. I’m glad it works well for folks, but really, knowing Jane, Pach and TRex personally, I know them all to be incredibly warm, caring people who are very passionate about a lot of issues where work desperately needs to be done. And people often go off on them because of that passion and think that they ought to just meekly and submissively say, “Oh, okay, I’ll do it your way instead.” and that’s just not right. I wouldn’t put up with that sort of attitude, and they shouldn’t have to do so either. At the same time, listening to criticism is not only useful and instructive, but it serves a wider purpose in terms of testing ideas and concepts which need testing — which is why I try so hard to cultivate that sort of give and take in my threads. YMMV as to how well I do with that — we had plenty of folks calling everyone sheep last night, but I tend to think those are folks who have only spent a little time in the comments here (but maybe that’s just me). But the end result is what matters, and I think Pach was correct this morning that some of what folks decry as censorship from outside the blog is really self-censorship of people just not posting their thoughts — and, honestly, as someone who spent a lot of her life being painfully shy, I can understand that, but there has to be some personal responsibility taken for that by the person who fails to post a comment or a criticism, doesn’t there? Anyway, I’m rambling because I’m tired this morning, but I hope you get where I’m going with this.
I quit early and am starting late today. I missed the boat entirely, darn it. Not sure I will have time to read until Monday, so I guess I better bookmark or something.
I just hate the cold and snow. My entire family is traveling in it today–planes and cars. Only good thing (if all goes well), we are together for a couple of days.
George SWill sucks.
School is closed today, ’cause it’s snowing. In my school district (where I teach high school) we have what’s called “act of God days”. This is one of these days. Doing home made vegetable soup for later and we are all cozy in here. Games, movies and let it snow. ( it’s good for the winter wheat farmers)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 106
If they’re anything like Iowa corn and soybean farmers, you’ll never get them to admit it. There’s no such thing as good weather to those guys.
We should’ve had a snow day on Tues., instead I tried to drive down my hill and instead slid 100 yards before crashing my Prius. Now I’m dealing with that fallout.
Btw, went to Will’s link and there are 19 PAGES of comments already. Read a couple and didn’t see a single defense of Will’s spewage.
Off to attempt this hill on yet another icy morning…
christy – my compliments to you were not meant as a back-handed criticism of anyone else. hope it didn’t sound that way…. i haven’t met pach, but i have met trex and jane – and think the world of both of them…. really – both are heros in my book.
amen to that. no one has all the answers… i’d like to think that together we are much more than the sum of our parts.
sorry to hijack the thread with all this meta…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 106
OK – thanks for the inspiration… a simple home made soup is just what the doctor ordered.
selise at 109 — no, the meta is good to whatever extent folks need to talk about it. Because we did it as a late night last night, I thought perhaps some of the morning crew might have thoughts they needed to get out there as well. Which was one of the reasons I did an open-ish thread this morning (That and the fact that I’m freaking exhausted and was running way late this morning — how do people do this on five hours sleep? Blergh.)
Here is my take on the Vilsack entry for the ‘08 race. He takes Iowa as the favorite son and this helps Hilary keep Obama, Edwards or whoever from taking an early lead and making it a real race for her. Could be a vast Hilary conspiracy. He! He!
Cheers,
Jim
There’s one thing that cuts across political lines here, and that is; we want our old ‘normal’ winters back. Before global warming. Cold, snow, rain and wind. Yes! We are an ag. state and we miss the moisture. So we like the snow today!!! My family has lots and lots of winter wheat in the ground so we are delighted today.
Clusterfuck’s on his way home after his great summit conference with the Iraq PM..They agreed that they are both wonderful and that things are goin just fine in Iraq…
Ya know—here’s the trouble—they’re BOTH failing miserably.
Let’s forget for the moment that Clusterfuck lied to go to war..
Let’s forget that we should NEVER have entered into this conflict..
HE decided to enter- and HE decided what the objectives would be- and FOUR YEARS LATER-EVERYTHING HAS GONE TO SHIT!!!
He’s a failure- not on my terms- but on his own..The Iraqi government HE CREATED is falling apart–HE MADE A SHITTY GOVT- partly because he wouldn’t allow the time required to do it right and provided zero effective leadership..
Now he’s allowed the military to compound failure after failure- FOUR YEARS OF MILITARY FAILURE!!!
What’s our mission? Why are we failing in our mission? What the fuck is the president of the United States going to do about it???
The Saudis and the Iranians and other neighbors are sayin “Look- hundreds are dyin per DAY- and you can’t stop it. If you can’t- then get the fuck out and we’ll do it…
The congress and the american people are not capable of holding this slimy motherfucker accountable- so the rest of the world must..
Surely the most pathetic page in american history.
We should ALL be DEEPLY ashamed..
And the fuckin military is a failure–yeah- I know- you don’t say that- but they have failed miserably and all we’ve gotten from them is ass saving bullshit..
Fire em all!!!
Christy,
I am not issuing a blanket indictment of every single person who works for the FBIA and the CIA etc. Clearly there are many honorable and noble people who work in the “national security state”… Coleen Rowley being one who comes to mind.
Yet there is a very dark side to these agencies going back the J Edgar Hoover… When you look at some of the people who have headed these agencies is there any doubt that the dark side is there? Is there any doubt that the CIA has engineered the over throw and assassinations of several foreign leaders in recent decades… Chavez is still on the “to take down list”.
How do you explain that forensic evidence from the 9.11 has been destroyed or is being kept from investigators?
Something is “rotten in the state of denmark”…
The events on 9.11 has been used as a reason for “everything has changed”… yet we don’t have the truth about what happened that day.
What we do know is that since that day we have attacked 2 sovereign nations, we have lost 3000 soldiers and billions and billions of dollars… we are losing our civil rights slowly… we can’t take toothpaste on a plane… we are now like frogs who are tossed into cold water and brought to a boil. We are seeing creeping fascism work its way into lives.
I sense the problem is so large that just saying there were some screw ups is hardly getting at the problem.
We do not need bi partisan commissions … we need completely non partisan outsiders to look into this. The stain goes through the whole political spectrum in American…
And I don’t trust for one minute Larry Johnson who works for the CIA and does “strategic consulting”… whatever that is. He is often a first pager on blogs.. even at TruthOut etc. Once CIA always CIA.
I am in Italy now and everyone I talk with does not believe the 9.11 report the conventional story… not a one.
That day DID change everything and we need to go back and find out why, what happened, and who made it happen. I suspect it was not OBL… although his star has risen because of it.
Our MIC needs a big enemy to justify their existence… what is the point of a national security state if there is no real threat?
Let’s talk realistically about the “threats” to america… How about that?
BTW.. Christy. I think you are brilliant person and ethical beyond reproach… I am enlightened by your posts!
Here is a headline I found that is not happiness making: “Democrats Reject Key 9/11 Panel Suggestion” (for reorganization of Congress for greater oversight). Sigh. Well, per the article, they are going to set up a committee to study the problem. Here is the link. http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..17_pf.html I have some things I have to get done, will get back at lunch time to read this very interesting thread and hope someone out there has some wisdom or insight about this article that I do not have. I voted a straight democratic ticket, and I voted for major change. Well, will be back.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 113
Okay, so what we need is Al Gore and a time machine. We’re going to try to make contact with Walter Cronkite in the early 1960s.
On the “asskicking in the comments” question.
Guess it’s up to you all how ya wanna handle it.. If you want to STIMULATE civil discussion- then you need to model it- answering facts with facts and argument with argument with the patience to let the messy process continue .
If you want to just get dissenting opinion to “shut the fuck up” and move to another site- well then you just insult the posters and suggest that they might like it better elsewhere- (which has happened to me several times)..
It’s really up to you.
EvilDrPuma @ 117
(; I’m a greenhouse-gas kinda of a guy. ;)
Down with CO2 etc.
Gore/Clark!!!
blog pimp on>
Oooh, nice:
Every recipe in which begins “First catch your kitten…”
I curse the Muse
Denying me such skill as this.
But my pout can’t hold out
Tho I moan and shout
And shake my fist
This blog is on my list
Of blogs that can’t be missed
blog pimp off>
Jim @ 112
except that Wes Clark will win New Hampshire and South Carolina.
have broadcast channel(blerrgh indeed) on in background to catch local weather updates
al-Maliki ? oh please . . .
Who’s Your Baghdaddy Now -
http://www.globalsecurity.org/….._sadr3.jpg
gotta go – y’all stay warm and dry Firedogs !
Then there’s this nonsense from Fox’s VP John Moody about the network’s take on the term “civil war”:
http://media.nationalreview.co…..hiYjVjNmY=
OMG. Did someone mention Hillary?
Biodun @ 123
I guess Moody had better use that time machine to go back and revise the “Star Trek: The Next Generation” storyline about the Klingon Civil War. Since the Romulans were filtering supplies to the Duras faction, obviously they shouldn’t have called it that.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 124
My contempt for Hillary Clinton (and Joe Lieberman) will never subside.
DefJef @ 115
I am having great difficulty reconciling these two pieces of this post.
until one side suits up in blue and the other in gray and they have at it on a field in Pennsylvania there will be those who deny it is a civil war.
and maybe they have a point – is total anarchy the same as a civil war? maybe not.
It’s about time that someone asks Clusterfuck the following questions:
1) What is the US mission in Iraq?
2) After four years, have we succeeded in that mission?
3) If we have not succeeded in that mission- then what radical changes are you prepared to make to INSURE success (and “I kinda think that this might help a little if we give it a little more time” ain’t gonna cut it- that’s for four year olds)
4) If you cannot insure success- then WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO GET US OUT?–Or are we going to have to remove you from office- cause those are the only two choices.
steve kyle @ 128
you can have anarchy and civil war simultaneously.
(and all done with U.S. tax dollars).
There are two reasons why I don’t approve of the front-runner from NY. First and most importantly, I dislike Hillary’s vote for, and continued support for the Iraq war and her non-support for seeking a resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian situation. And secondly, because I was fooled by Clinton. Big time. There was a time I would have walked on live, red-hot coals (vast right-wing conspiracy) for her. Perhaps this is an ego problem on my part.
Holy poisoned Russians, Batman!
I really hope that when Dems hold hearings on Iraq- they don’t concentrate on withdrawal- until the end—they need to concentrate on the UTTER FAILURE OF THE POLICY ON IT’S OWN TERMS- including the failure of the US Military…”Why General- have you failed in your mission after four years?”
From Jim @ 112
Hey, wasn’t this Gephart’s plan?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 131
If so, then I share your ego. Hillary Clinton does not impress me as having any real commitment to anything except holding a national office.
Pat_AlexVA @ 127
What’s your problem… Ask any ex CIA to talk about the CIA and see what they say and what they say they will not say.
What is strategic consulting and why are ex CIA doing that?
doodooheadGeorge Will thinks Jim Webb is a pompous poseur. Takes one to know one, I guess….Every so often I start wondering if Cheney and his fellow neocons snuck in from the ‘Mirror Mirror’ universe. It would so explain things….
OldCoastie, I share your desire for the wind to stop blowing. I think the crows are seriously considering walking.
lina @ 130
Well put.
Morning Christy!
How about levitating small animals?
http://www.livescience.com/tec…..ation.html
Pretty cool, sez I.
By the way–Clusterfuck is now FORCED to say “We aren’t pulling out” cause the minute he even SUGGESTS that he might CONSIDER pulling out- Iran and Saudi will be marching troops into Iraq to fill the vacuum and to protect their own respective sides (regional war time).. So ignore what his denseness says- it has nothin ta do with anything.
rwcole @ 144
Had we put in the requisite 400,000 or so troops at the outset as realistic commanders wanted, we might have had a chance, but that window of opportunity is long closed.
jumping in late in this open thread and I am going to be
late for work — but we gotta morph that rubber
stamp into a democratic freedom lovin’ computer mouse.
Bobby–Yeah but let’s give the idiot the benefit of the doubt- the current mission is to keep Iraqis from killin each other (by killing Iraqis)- and it’s a total failure.
Deacon Blues @ 140
AP – A bipartisan commission next week will unveil long-awaited recommendations for a new U.S. policy in Iraq that a published report said would call for a gradual pullback of U.S. troops there — without a timetable — and direct diplomacy with Iran and Syria.
So how many American soldiers will be killed or maimed for life during this “gradual pullback” “without a timetable”?
I think Bill Sher’s take on the reported “mush” in the ISG report is right on:
Iraq Study Group — Worthless Bipartisan Mush
TeddySanFran @ 137
Yeah, but he’s our pompous poseur, whatever that is. It takes one to confront one, and I don’t mean Will.
Stay the Course! Full speed ahead!
The terrorists have won!
scarecrow at 8:24 am, great link, thanks.
scarecrow @ 147
i also like andrew bacevich’s explanation of why it’s mush:
Their purpose is twofold: first, to minimize Iraq’s impact on the prevailing foreign policy consensus with its vast ambitions and penchant for armed intervention abroad; and second, to quell any inclination of ordinary citizens to intrude into matters from which they have long been excluded. The ISG is antidemocratic. Its implicit message to Americans is this: We’ll handle things – now go back to holiday shopping.
Google/news has a bunch of links on the story, Christy. “party crasher” was my snark, no doubt he was invited since this was his big issue…no mention of his collaborator Hillary being there…
here’s a linky http://www.canada.com/victoria…..mp;k=94881
selise at 8:30 am, great link, thanks.
Fresh thread, gang.
Don’t know what Webb is. SOMEONE had to share the great Webb adventure with the press- they didn’t observe it- and I doubt if it was Clusterfuck- so Webb must’ve done it..He’s not goin to the senate to sit in the back row and vote- that’s for sure. He’s going to DEMAND attention. Could be great for the dems (or could be a disaster) we’ll see.
selise @ 99
Selise — yes. I very much regret participating is last night’s bloodletting. My apologies to all, especially Jane, who was trying to reach out.
Perhaps we should follow the Greek/Trojan example and allow a decent interval to remove the dead bodies from last night’s battlefield, bury our dead with honor, and agree not to fight for at least 15 days.
rw at 155 — I dunno. Schumer was quoted in the WaPo article about Webb — discussing how Webb wasn’t the usual political type because he had issues on which he felt strongly and wasn’t likely to be a big compromiser. Methinks some of the more accomodating mebers of the Dems in the Senate may not be altogether comfortable with folks who stand on their principles as a matter of course. Witness how Feingold gets treated on occasion, just as one example. I think this was a planted story to take some shine off Webb before he ever stepped up to his Senatorial desk. That Schumer was there by name? Very interesting, indeed.
Prairie Sunshine @ 152
on thanksgiving i played the board game “risk” with my nephew and some of my cousins (for those of you who haven’t played it, it is a game of world domination by military means – using dice and cards). my “joke” was to give each of us a “role” (i was dick cheney)… if only the neo-cons had played more games as kids maybe they wouldn’t feel the loss now and keep trying to make up for it by playing “risk” with the globe as their board?
scarecrow @ 156
it’s hard to have a decent discussion where disagreements are strong (i oughta know ;-) )… even harder via keyboard and worse yet when one has an audience.
peace.
DefJef @ 136
I’m saying that indicating you don’t trust Larry because “once CIA always CIA” undermines your earlier claim that you believe some in national security are noble and honorable.
I suppose someone can serve honorably while not retaining your trust.
I wouldn’t get hung up on “strategic consulting”. There are lot’s of variations on consulting, it’s just another abstract title.
I think Dick played and lost
selise @ 158
on thanksgiving i played the board game “risk” with my nephew and some of my cousins (for those of you who haven’t played it, it is a game of world domination by military means – using dice and cards). my “joke” was to give each of us a “role” (i was dick cheney)… if only the neo-cons had played more games as kids maybe they wouldn’t feel the loss now and keep trying to make up for it by playing “risk” with the globe as their board?
Latest FaBlog: Fait Divers — Structuring Absences
Rayne @ 66
Or why there were so many flight simulations scheduled for that day, which confused the FAA.
Blown off by al Maliki, determined to ignore the findings of the ISG, the Moron in Chief seems to be in full battle mode. Heck, why not send a few more troops? More troops here, more troops there, and pretty soon you’re talking a real war. Bring it on!
A weary, reluctant nation may be forced to impeach him after all, just because it seems to be the only way to stop the carnage.
Hey Po 84, hey Rayne 91,
Yes, one might expect radiation sensors to have tripped somewhere at any of these airports, London’s too. Could’ve bypassed security though.
From what I’ve read about Polonium-210 is that it’s basically all Alpha wave radiation, effectively no Beta or Gamma signatures. What this means is that as long as you keep it in a rudimentary container, it’s basically contained. This seems at odds with all the contamination evidence (12 locations and counting) we’re getting in now. So either the perpetrators were sloppy lunatics who didn’t know how to handle the stuff, or the contamination spots were there all along and it just took a context (Litvinenko’s poisoning) to start finding them.
There IS a lot more to this. The Gaidar poisoning is troubling. Does anyone know what the poison might’ve been? Any attempts at a chronology anywhere? Any links to more in-depth articles?
Another possibility is that the sloppy handling, along with so many obvious bits of evidence were meant to happen and be found.
Breadcrumbs? This didn’t have to have any public knowledge if any state official wanted someone eliminated.
I found this link to be informative
The Litvinenko Mystery
If Webb had been an active, elected Democrat in 2003 we probably wouldn’t be in Iraq today. I’m sure he wouldn’t have knuckled under to Bush’s every wish for fear that Bush wouldn’t grace him with a nickname. I would love to know what W is calling him today. It’s probably nothing along the lines of My Main Man.
How about Webb in 2008? Hackett could be his veep.
Why isn’t anybody who can do something about it screaming about having to wait for the report from the Wise Men (Ed Meese?) while more Americans die everyday.
Why shouldn’t Bush be impeached and convicted?
Why was the meeting cancelled?
Very simple.
Because the supporters of Sadr in the Iraqi government threatened to quit if the meeting went ahead.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00324.html
Nothing at all to do with any leaked memo out of Washington.
So ask yourself WHO’S got the real power in Iraq?
Good point Rumi, and excellent link.
It’s certainly plausible that the sheer number of contamination locations suggests someone is trying to dilute/confuse the Scotland Yard investigation with phony leads. The best place to hide a tree is indeed a forest.
This Lugovoi character seems a plausible suspect. He was released from custody without explanation over a charge which ought to have stuck, especially for a non-Putin darling…..that is unless he was a double agent.
But I’m a pathetic armchair detective at best. This is going to get morbidly interesting. I hope Frontline’s paying attention.
I read Pat Lang’s blog (www.turcopolier.typepad.com) for his expertise in military matters. But, I was impressed after learning how Jim Webb won the Navy Cross in Vietnam (11/9: “Webb’s Dog Tags”):
““..deep in hostile territory, First Lieutenant Webb’s platoon discovered a well-camouflaged bunker complex…. First Lieutenant Webb was advancing to the first bunker when three enemy soldiers armed with hand grenades jumped out. Reacting instantly, he grabbed the closest man and, brandishing his .45 caliber pistol at the others, apprehended all three of the soldiers. … He then approached the second bunker and called for the enemy to surrender. ….Continuing the assault, he approached a third bunker and was preparing to fire into it when the enemy threw another grenade. Observing the grenade land dangerously close to his companion, First Lieutenant Webb simultaneously fired his weapon at the enemy, pushed the Marine away from the grenade, and shielded him from the explosion with his own body. Although sustaining painful fragmentation wounds from the explosion, he managed to throw a grenade into the aperture and completely destroy the remaining bunker.” It is unseemly to talk about this? The Navy Cross is the country’s second highest medal for battlefield courage.
Think about this. This very young man led his forty-five marines into a fortified enemy position. Three enemy soldiers suddenly appeared. He personally captured the three of them. Then, he moved to a second bunker and in spite of what has just happened, called on them to surrender. The risk in this was appalling. Not many of us would have taken the chance of waiting to see what these new enemies would do. I would not have. In attacking a third bunker, Webb used his own body to shield one of his men from the blast of an enemy grenade. I am surprised that he did not receive the Medal of Honor.
Unseemly to talk about this? Think about the complete lack of focus on self that these actions exemplify. Do we not need leaders like this?
My God. I pray that we will always have leaders like this who can unflinchingly do their duty, and then, a generation later persist in principled silence and self-sacrifice in the way that Jim insists must be. – Pat Lang
(It’s Webb who thinks it’s “unseemly” to talk about himself.)
“By the way–Clusterfuck is now FORCED to say “We aren’t pulling out” cause the minute he even SUGGESTS that he might CONSIDER pulling out- Iran and Saudi will be marching troops into Iraq to fill the vacuum and to protect their own respective sides (regional war time).. So ignore what his denseness says- it has nothin ta do with anything.” rwcole
rw, I think you’re right. I’ve heard this is what Cheney was told by the Saudis in his recent visit.
squiddy @ 170 – It’ll probably be another dueling versions of propaganda/truth. I get the feeling that several loose ends are flapping around but not publicly connected yet. Why on earth would Bolton step down now, without more of a fight? Why do the neocons appear to be giving up on their dream of global domination? Is it just coincidence that wiretap/surveillance by NSACIADOD and others involved PMCs, WINPAC, journalists and, of course,…..oil/energy interests? What a great cover all of that WMD debate provided as a distraction. It sure kept the global WMD hall monitors busy back then.
hmm,…Weldon, DeLay, Abramoff and Russian Energy like Yukos?