fitzy!

spin it!

from Jeff Huber today:

It’s no surprise to me that Bush would turn for advice to the one head of state who’s a bigger screw up than he is. Maliki’s 24 point reconciliation plan, which he introduced back in June, has gone over like a lead zeppelin. Shia cleric and Mahdi Army leader Muqtada al-Sadr, once Malaki’s main political ally, has publicly denounced the government and labeled Iraq’s Sunnis as “terrorists.” Asking Maliki for sound strategic advice is like trying to get milk from a bullfrog.

The next thing you know, Bush will seek marriage counseling from Pamela Anderson.

Tom Ricks, military correspondent with the Washington Post and author of Fiasco, revealed Tuesday on MSNBC that there’s talk in the Pentagon of dropping the support of the reconciliation policy and throwing in with the Shiites. As crazy as that sounds, it makes a lot more sense than what we’re doing now. Positioning troops in the middle of a multi-sided civil war and expecting their mere “presence” to accomplish anything defies wisdom learned from millennia of military history.

But which Shias do we side with? Al-Sadr has declared that “I am an enemy of America and America is my enemy until the last day of judgment.” That doesn’t sound like the kind of talk old Dead or Alive Dubya is likely to cotton up to.

So if we throw our weight behind Maliki, we’ll have to fight al-Sadr’s followers as well as the Sunnis. And since Maliki is making coo noise with Iran and Syria, crawling in the sack with him will mean that we’re rubbing bellies with the “axis of evil” as well.

http://zenhuber.blogspot.com/

White House insists U.S. has faith in Iraqi leader despite leaked memo suggesting he might be “ignorant” of threats to nation. LA Times today.

Yeah sure. Tell it to Rumsfeld. Or Brownie. Or whoever.

Hard to tell who’s having more fun travelling these days: Bush or the pope.

That Ricks and Wright article is great. I had quoted it on the earlier thread and got stuck in mod. Juan Cole is quoted in it and says this:

The long-term effect of blaming Iraqis also could be poisonous, said Juan Cole, a University of Michigan specialist in Middle Eastern issues. He predicted that it will “infuriate the Iraqis and worsen further the future relationship of the two countries.”

They are furious and in agony and this is as stupid as it gets.

Dems should not be piling on and they are.

Senator-Elect Webb.

That’s all, I just like seeing it in print :)

There is a fundraiser for Esten on December 9th in western NC. Anyone can go.

The brochure:

A benefit, concert and silent auction to honor Esten Maxwell will take place Saturday, December 9th at The Score Board in downtown Pittsboro from 4pm-midnight. Esten, age 3, was diagnosed with leukemia this past October. Please join us for an evening of music and friendship to honor and support Esten and his family. $5.00 at the door for 8 bands! All proceeds go directly to the Esten Maxwell fund. A flyer is attached. Please print and post, forward this email and spread the word! Special Performances by mostly Chatham artists
end of brochure

To send a check, make check out to Esten Maxwell and send to:

Tracy McInturff
978 Chatham Church Road
Moncure, NC 27559

egr again:
To get updates and send messages to the family, you can sign up for his CarePage using his name.

I have no relation with the family unless you want to count the ancestors who passed thru western NC about 7 generations back.

Yesterday CNN.com ran a poll asking if people agreed that al-Qaeda was responsible for the insurgency in Iraq. When I saw it, the results were 74 percent hell-no and 26 percent Bush-believers. How’s that working out for you, Shrub?

CNN – senior pentagon official says 3 battalions will b moving from other areas of Iraq into Baghdad. Notes that none of the troops will be coming from Al Anbar Province

Thanks for freeing me on the last thread Christy; it happened again at my 6 here with the same topic.

bizarre.

(thank you!)

egregious @ 6

Senator-Elect Webb.

That’s all, I just like seeing it in print :)

I like the “simply refused to play along” part myself. That’s one Bush had better get used to.

And yes, Christy, this has the odor of Rove to it.

But I wonder if Bush is going to send the DOJ after whoever leaked this highly classified document, essential to our national security. Isn’t that the SOP for leaking in this White House?

Angie at 10 — Mommybrain had a thought on what may have caused the problem at 110 in the prior thread, and I think she’s on to something with it.

Can you find the secret word hidden below, the one that will guarantee you end up in moderation? This is tricky.

Speciali*t

where * = S

I’ll give you a hint – it’s comething Rush might use if the little blue pills ran out.

angie @
11

Thanks for freeing me on the last thread Christy; it happened again at my 6 here with the same topic.

bizarre.

I think there’s a new WordPress feature that selects a “commentor of the day” and sends two out of every three comments to the mods, just for fun. It got me one day last week, following from thread to thread, but things have been fine ever since. Go figure.

Enjoy your special day! ;)

Don’t hold your breath waiting for the imbeciles at the Times/Post/Time/Newsweek etc etc ad nauseum to stop participating in the kabuki. They do it as the continuing price of admission to the Kewl Kidz Klub.

After January Congressional Dems need to be equally as smart about granting access when required. It might make the dickheads in the “MSM” actually have to be slightly analytical about what craptastical stuff they report on.

The only reason the 1600 Crew does this now is because Rove is still pushing, and is being allowed to get away with it. A little selective card-playing by Pelosi and Reid might put an end to that ASAP. Fer instance, suppose they gave a press conference only for Bloggers (left and right)? Tell me that wouldn’t chap the ass of the “MSM” who maintain our “irrelevance” as they sit at their PC’s waiting to see what they missed.

Couldn’t Bush have just e-mailed Malaki with
questions and have him fill in the blanks?

Oh yes, Bush needs to look him in the eye…

Jack

Excellent comment got epu’d:

“Hugh says
November 29th, 2006 at 8:38 am*

John Casper @ 84

Wrt pulling out of Anbar, this might simply be bowing to pressure from the Saudi’s and Syria.

What is so odd about this is that just yesterday Bush was railing against the possibility of “terrorists” setting up safe havens in Iraq. This would seem to do exactly that and with al Qaeda no less since Anbar is where al Qaeda in Iraq is headquartered.”

This administration is so inept it can’t even manufacture halfway decent puppets!

Mommybrain,

I think we are not supposed to be specific about what causes moderation. It helps the trolls.

edit: Well, CHS seems to be ok with talking about this one.

Don’t know that one can conclude that Hadley’s people leaked the memo. There is so much crazy stuff being floated that one might think that our own government has broken down into factions looking to undercut each other.

Consider that the notion has been floated that the U.S. might be considering backing a “winner”, meaning the Shia. This in itself is problematical since thereare increasinglyso many factionsamong the Shiathat it is unclear what that would look like, especially with Sadr and Maliki going so far their separate ways of late. But I get ahead of myself. At the least that means backing a group most friendly to….Iran.

Meanwhile, the VP of oil gets summoned to Saudi Arabia for a little sit down. It goes without saying what the Saudi/Iran dynamic has been.

Cheney gets back and plants one in the back of Maliki by leaking the Hadley memo, then runs off to FLA to blast away at things while the dust settles. Bonus points for throwing a wrench into sabotaging even the very modest suggestions that are rumored to be made by the Baker gang, that being negotiation with Syria and Iran.

What is really scary is that one can draw so many plausible scenarios about the leak, as well as other events of late. No one is at the wheel.

A very, very dangerous time it is.

LOL Mommybrain! Thanks much.

I do feel rather special, Peterr– thank you too!

Things are coming to a head. With brainy Cheney and Karl Rove calling the shots I am way, way, way beyond worried. Things cannot go on the way they are. There’s going to be a pull out or all out war. And since we are fresh outta soldiers to fight a big, big war. What then?

egregious at 20 — in this case, I think Mommybrain was trying to help me. I didn’t spot the “magic word” and couldn’t figure out why Angie was stuck. lol (You’d think I was never here freeing up comments, because that one was SO obvious…)

Great catch angie at 8:36

Jo at 15

“A little selective card-playing by Pelosi and Reid might put an end to that ASAP. Fer instance, suppose they gave a press conference only for Bloggers (left and right)? Tell me that wouldn’t chap the ass of the “MSM” who maintain our “irrelevance” as they sit at their PC’s waiting to see what they missed.”

I like it! For Bushco’s entire administration the MSM have been accomplices and enablers. Unfortunately, un-consolidating the media will take time for the Dems come January. In the interim, this tactic sends an immediate message.

While Bush is meeting with al-Maliki in Jordan, Jalal Talabani (prez of Iraq) is visiting with pal Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on the other of Iraq–in Iran.

Here’s the full irony of Iran’s relationship with the US: Iran should be grateful to Bush for taking out Saddam Hussein. After all, Saddam had been Iran’s foil for sometime. (Remember the 8-year Iran-Iraq from 1980-1988? The US backed Iraq in that war. Remember the chummy photo-op of Rummy and Saddam?) And so Bush knocked out Saddam, creating a power void for Ahmadinejad to move into.

Iran has benefited greatly from the Iraq War. The Shias in Iran can finally get together with their Shia brothers in Iraq–which is what is happening. Ahmadinejad should be really grateful to Bush. Instead, Ahmadinejad has nothing but contempt for Bush. Fully ironic.

Meanwhile, Bush is being prodded to cozy up to Iran to stablize Iraq. I mean, Mr. Bush gets no respect.

This was something I put together yesterday mostly for my own amusement. These are from remarks made yesterday by Bush in Latvia. The first paragraph is pretty much on topic.

“Tomorrow, I’m going to travel to Jordan where I will meet with the Prime Minister of Iraq. We will discuss the situation on the ground [OK, our meeting in Jordan probably answers that question] in his country, our ongoing efforts to transfer more responsibility to the Iraqi Security Forces, and the responsibility of other nations in the region to support the security and stability of Iraq [If you’re not catching the message here, it is “Not my fault.”]. We’ll continue to be flexible [if this means staying the course], and we’ll make the changes necessary to succeed [if this means staying the course]. But there’s one thing I’m not going to do: I’m not going to pull our troops off the battlefield before the mission is complete [because that isn’t staying the course].

The battles in Iraq and Afghanistan are part of a struggle between moderation and extremism [Strawman alert!] that is unfolding across the broader Middle East. Our [nameless] enemy follows a hateful ideology that rejects fundamental freedoms like the freedom to speak [You know like Newt Gingrich.], to assemble, or to worship God in the way you see fit. It opposes the rights for women [Bush is anti-choice. See the difference?]. Their goal is to overthrow governments and to impose their totalitarian rule on millions [Not like us, at all, really, I guess. We’re more into chaos.] . . . The war on terror we fight today is more than a military conflict; it is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century [God, I love this Armageddon type language.]. And in this struggle, we can accept nothing less than victory for our children and our grandchildren [Victory, endless war? OK, maybe these don’t go together but who’s going to notice?].
snip
In each of these places, extremists are using terror to stop the spread of freedom. Some are Shia extremists, others are Sunni extremists — but they represent different faces of the same threat [That is although they’re different, they’re the same]. And if they succeed in undermining fragile [You know like bombing Lebanon back to the Stone Age, oops. Strike that.] democracies, and drive the forces of freedom out of the region [us], they will have an open field to pursue their goals. [Picking up steam here.] Each strain of violent Islamic radicalism would be emboldened in its efforts to gain control of states and establish new safe havens. [Taking flight.] The extremists would use oil resources to fuel their radical agenda, and to punish industrialized nations, and pursue weapons of mass destruction. [And into outer space.] Armed with nuclear weapons, they could blackmail the free world, spread their ideologies of hate, and raise a mortal threat to Europe, America, and the entire civilized world.
snip
I know [Strawman alert! Those filthy unnamed “some” again.] some in my country, and some here in Europe, are pessimistic about the prospects of democracy and peace in the Middle East. Some doubt whether the people of that region are ready for freedom, or want it badly enough, or have the courage to overcome the forces of totalitarian extremism. I understand these doubts, but I do not share them. I believe in the universality of freedom. I believe that the people of the Middle East want their liberty. I’m impressed by the courage I see in the people across the region who are fighting for their liberty.”

Somehow, the subject of this thread reminds me of Don Mclean’s “Dreidel.” (something Bush might be thinking to himself)

My sky shoes are spiked with lead heels.
I’m lost in this star car I’m drivin’.
But my air sole keeps pushin’ big wheels.
My world is a constant confusion.
My mind is prepared to attack.
My past a persuasive illusion.
I’m watchin’ the future it’s black.

OT–

The UN has just received a letter to the American people from President Ahmadinejad.

msnbc.

Nicely done, Hugh.

Cheney really needs to leak better material than then the Maliki report… Heres a blurb from Colin Powell that 100% better…

Colin Powell Says Bush Needs To Face Reality Of Civil War In Iraq

Speaking with CNN reporter Hala Gorani in Dubai today, former Secretary of State Colin Powell said Iraq’s violence meets the standard of a civil war and thinks President Bush needs to acknowledge that. According to Gorani’s report, Powell said if he were heading the State Department right now, he would recommend that the Bush administration adopt that language “in order to come to terms with the reality on the ground.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/…..civil-war/

angie @ 30

OT–

The UN has just received a letter to the American people from President Ahmadinejad.

msnbc.

CNN reported that earlier with little details. they said the letter is long and “broke no new ground.” Ahmadinejad says he is sure the American people are not for wiretaps and such. Also that BushCo has undermined any credibility that international organizations once had… but they were still reading it.

Bush is getting off the plane and I CRINGE at the disaster that is about to unfold…

Well, so far he’s right about that, twolf1– thanks.

Bubbleboy in Amman now.

Christy — right on point re the Bush regime’s frantic efforts to escape accountability. But the NYT is not oblivious to the apparently deliberate leak.

There is a companion front page article by John Burns and Kirk Semple that, when read carefully, appears to debunk much of the Hadley view of reality. I think we have to read the two articles together. The second is here:

Deeper Crisis, Less US Sway in Iraq

The first article just summarizes the Hadley memo. (The times also quotes the entire memo — that is the leakers gave a copy of the memo to the Times — think about that one!) The second article analyzes the background and shows that it is the Bush regime, including Hadley, who are in denial — not al Maliki. In fact, the Iraq PM seems to be the only awake and rational guy in the bunch. He understands that the Iraq army/policy = the secular militias. He understands that disbanding the militias = disbanding the only forces trying to maintain order in their own communities, not, as Hadley assumes, that there are just the forces of terror (they are, but they’re more than that).

The irony is that every criticism Hadley makes of al-Maliki applies with even greater force to Bush himself.

Here is Hadley’s critique of al-Maliki:

He many be in denial of reality
He may be ignorant of what’s really going on
He is surrounded by a close-minded group representing only one view of reality and policy
He doesn’t have political support and can’t seem to gather it
He claims to be doing the right thing but doesn’t seem to know how to do it or what it means.
He doesn’t seem willing or able to disassociate himself from the most extreme elements in his own government

And so on.

Well, who are we talking about here? We’re faced with the absurdity of the Bush regime critiquing the Iraqi’s failure to govern effectively!

(Another post should be asking — who leaked this, and why? It looks like a Cheney job to box in Bush and discredit/embarass Bush and Maliki at precisely the time when Bush needs something from Maliki; what is the leak master trying to accomplish? This doesn’t seem like a calculated Rice/Hadley job to help the President. How can this possibly help, if the President is intent on staying the course?)

Biodun @ 27

While Bush is meeting with al-Maliki in Jordan, Jalal Talabani (prez of Iraq) is visiting with pal Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on the other of Iraq–in Iran.

Here’s the full irony of Iran’s relationship with the US: Iran should be grateful to Bush for taking out Saddam Hussein. After all, Saddam had been Iran’s foil for sometime. (Remember the 8-year Iran-Iraq from 1980-1988? The US backed Iraq in that war. Remember the chummy photo-op of Rummy and Saddam?) And so Bush knocked out Saddam, creating a power void for Ahmadinejad to move into.

Iran has benefited greatly from the Iraq War. The Shias in Iran can finally get together with their Shia brothers in Iraq–which is what is happening. Ahmadinejad should be really grateful to Bush. Instead, Ahmadinejad has nothing but contempt for Bush. Fully ironic.

Meanwhile, Bush is being prodded to cozy up to Iran to stablize Iraq. I mean, Mr. Bush gets no respect.

the history books will refer to this war as “the war to advance Iranian hegemony.”

scarecrow @ 35

(Another post should be asking — who leaked this, and why? It looks like a Cheney job to box in Bush and discredit/embarass Bush and Maliki at precisely the time when Bush needs something from Maliki; what is the leak master trying to accomplish? This doesn’t seem like a calculated Rice/Hadley job to help the President. How can this possibly help, if the President is intent on staying the course?)

I remember Jonathan Alter speculating on MSNBC yesterday that the leak was by the White House to lower expectations for the meeting today with al-Maliki. Go figure.

sofistic @ 29

Awesome ziggurat poem material! (I never got over third grade ’shape’ poems. I think because that was the year I learned to read. ‘Snowflake’ was my personal favorite shape)

My sky shoes are spiked with lead heels.
I’m lost in this star car I’m drivin’.
But my air sole keeps pushin’ big wheels.
My world is a constant confusion.
My mind is prepared to attack.
My past a persuasive illusion.
I’m watchin’ the future it’s black.

[Note from CHS: Please do not go over tweo blockquotes nested in a single post. It blows our margins. Thanks, much!]

John Swifty,

I’m all for poetry, but maybe that one was supposed to be a double zig poem!

Mind the margins!

(And edit if you can, to unbreak things)

Oopps, Swifty. You broke it, you buy it.

Biodun @ 37

I remember Jonathan Alter speculating on MSNBC yesterday that the leak was by the White House to lower expectations for the meeting today with al-Maliki. Go figure.

Wouldn’t surprise me. The soft bigotry of low expectations has been BushCo’s calling card for six years–why would they stop now?

cut-n-run from the zigs

mrJJ @ 31..Colin Powell makes me sick..He knew better, he made a promise to those who died in Vietnam; not to do it again. He could have stopped this shit before it started. But he wasn’t up to it or he wanted to save his kids job, who knows. History will damn Colin Powell.

The White House did not dispute the accuracy of the quoted material from the memo, but a senior administration official, reacting on condition of anonymity to details of the published classified memo, said Wednesday that, taken as a whole, it is an expression of support for al-Maliki.

Leak of a classified memo!

Call out a special prosecutor!

How many leaks of classidfed material are we gona get from this White House?

Steve @ 43

mrJJ @ 31..Colin Powell makes me sick..He knew better, he made a promise to those who died in Vietnam; not to do it again. He could of stopped this shit before it started. But he wasn’t up to it or he wanted to save his kids job, who knows. History will damn Colin Powell.

Remember, Colin “Promise to Those Who Died in Vietnam” Powell was instrumental in the My Lai coverup. His word was never worth a red cent, and history started its damning thirty-five years ago.

Peterr @ 39

John Swifty,

I’m all for poetry, but maybe that one was supposed to be a double zig poem!

Mind the margins!

(And edit if you can, to unbreak things)

My bad! I’m Mia Culpa again. I killed my session and can’t get back to it. Preview was not enough of my friend. Whomever is modding, please kill it…bye, bye, American ziggurat.

Steve @ 43

History will damn Colin Powell.

current events already have.

johnSwifty @ 46

My bad! I’m Mia Culpa again. I killed my session and can’t get back to it. Preview was not enough of my friend. Whomever is modding, please kill it…bye, bye, American ziggurat.

“Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make ziggurats.”

sofistic @ 40

Oopps, Swifty. You broke it, you buy it.

So this is what happens with too many ziggurats! That explains the wide margins I have on my screen all of a sudden.

looseheadprop @ 44

The White House did not dispute the accuracy of the quoted material from the memo, but a senior administration official, reacting on condition of anonymity to details of the published classified memo, said Wednesday that, taken as a whole, it is an expression of support for al-Maliki.

Leak of a classified memo!

Call out a special prosecutor!

How many leaks of classidfed material are we gona get from this White House?

Fingers crossed here :)

Message To West Point
Bill Moyers
November 29, 2006

Many of you will be heading for Iraq. I have never been a soldier myself, never been tested under fire, never faced hard choices between duty and feeling, or duty and conscience, under deadly circumstances. I will never know if I have the courage to be shot at, or to shoot back, or the discipline to do my duty knowing the people who dispatched me to kill—or be killed—had no idea of the moral abyss into which they were plunging me.

http://www.tompaine.com/articl….._point.php

bye, bye, American ziggurat
drove your ziggy to the margin ’til the margin went wide

twolf1 @
10

CNN – senior pentagon official says 3 battalions will b moving from other areas of Iraq into Baghdad. Notes that none of the troops will be coming from Al Anbar Province

I seem to recall saying yesterday that retaking and holding Baghdad was the only strategic choice I could foresee.

twolf1 @
52

bye, bye, American ziggurat
drove your ziggy to the margin ’til the margin was wide

My ears are burning, I think I’ll cut one off…tonight…when the stars are out.

lina @ 47

Steve @ 43

History will damn Colin Powell.

current events already have.

Powell and Rice. Two toadys in a pod.

Steve @ 43

mrJJ @ 31..Colin Powell makes me sick..He knew better, he made a promise to those who died in Vietnam; not to do it again. He could have stopped this shit before it started. But he wasn’t up to it or he wanted to save his kids job, who knows. History will damn Colin Powell.

Please read Karen de Young’s new book on Colin Powell–Soldier: The Life of Colin Powell. You might have a sympatheitc understanding of why Powell didn’t resign outright after being dissed by and used to carry water for BushCo.

OT: Cancel plans for the Cat Vivisection Float.

Frist will not seek presidency in 2008

Excerpt: “In the Bible, God tells us for everything there is a season, and for me, for now, this season of being an elected official has come to a close. I do not intend to run for president in 2008,” Frist said in a statement — his only planned comment on the decision.

Scratch one sociopath.

egregious @ 8

There is a fundraiser for Esten on December 9th in western NC. Anyone can go.

The brochure:

A benefit, concert and silent auction to honor Esten Maxwell will take place Saturday, December 9th at The Score Board in downtown Pittsboro from 4pm-midnight. Esten, age 3, was diagnosed with leukemia this past October. Please join us for an evening of music and friendship to honor and support Esten and his family. $5.00 at the door for 8 bands! All proceeds go directly to the Esten Maxwell fund. A flyer is attached. Please print and post, forward this email and spread the word! Special Performances by mostly Chatham artists
end of brochure

To send a check, make check out to Esten Maxwell and send to:

Tracy McInturff
978 Chatham Church Road
Moncure, NC 27559

egr again:
To get updates and send messages to the family, you can sign up for his CarePage using his name.

I have no relation with the family unless you want to count the ancestors who passed thru western NC about 7 generations back.

Carrboro is in the heart of Carolina–walking distance to Chapel Hill, minutes from Raleigh & Durham.

Thanks for the info–am sending something today to Esten as we won’t be able to attend benefit.

OT
I just read an amazing report by Sibel Edmonds who is being silenced by the administration. She needs to be given a voice here at FDL and go sign her petition.

http://www.justacitizen.com/

read her 2 part account: Hijacking of a Nation

Sibel is an amazing patriot and we need to get behind her. Her report is explosive and sickening at the same time. Boy do we have a mess in government.

Scarborough alleging that Nancy is playing politics with the intel position. Young, bright lady “Anna” rebuts him beautifully.

Scarborough wants Harman so bad and so does Monica Crowley– they are crying and worrying and wringing their hands about national security.

Buchanan says Nancy has handled her speakership horribly.

Thanks guys.

PS– I also have nothing but contempt for Powell.

Note from CHS: Please do not go over two blockquotes nested in a single post. It blows our margins. Thanks, much!

Frist not running. . .maybe the Repugs will all be not running, in droves.

Powell did not fool me with the UN performance. How he could have put that one on is essentially unforgiveable. IMO.

Yes, the blame ‘n shame. Prolly not gonna work out so well. This is a desperate and foolish moment. I am sure the Presnut will not fail to disappoint.

Hugh at 28 — bwahahahahaha! Excellent!

mrJJ @ 31:

Colin Powell Says Bush Needs To Face Reality Of Civil War In Iraq

Speaking with CNN reporter Hala Gorani in Dubai today, former Secretary of State Colin Powell said Iraq’s violence meets the standard of a civil war and thinks President Bush needs to acknowledge that. According to Gorani’s report, Powell said if he were heading the State Department right now, he would recommend that the Bush administration adopt that language “in order to come to terms with the reality on the ground.

Powell also was the one to remid Bush of the pottery barn rule. Amazing what kind of a Secretary of State Bush had and how Bush wasted Powell’s sage counsel.

Colin Powell speaks. Big Fucking Deal. He has nothing worth listening to ever again.

He could have shut this misbegotten war down in its planning stages, by lending his prestige and opinion to the more moderate elements in the Government, including his own State Department who feared the Neocon/Chalabi path, but chose not to do it. No American should ever give him the time of day or the courtesy of respecting his opinion again.

If we see him in the Dock at the Hague, what will his argument be? “I was only following orders to blindly go and lie at the UN?” Yeah, right. Worked so well in Nuremberg, didn’t it Colin? Or did you skip those classes at the Point?

Christy Hardin Smith @ 61

Note from CHS: Please do not go over two blockquotes nested in a single post. It blows our margins. Thanks, much!

let’s respect the culture of zignity.

looseheadprop @ 44

The White House did not dispute the accuracy of the quoted material from the memo, but a senior administration official, reacting on condition of anonymity to details of the published classified memo, said Wednesday that, taken as a whole, it is an expression of support for al-Maliki.

Leak of a classified memo!

Call out a special prosecutor!

How many leaks of classified material are we gona get from this White House?

lhp- Which part of the WH? After the elections, pundits were talking about the fall of Cheney’s influence. Yet he’s still there, visiting the Saudis, and his minions permeate the state/security agencies. So is there a huge battle going on between those who argue we should put all our chips (including more US troops and $$) on al-Miliki vs those who want some type of coup? The Hadley critique of al-Maliki supports the latter group; once the memo is out, the Hadley-Rice group must spin it back as a reaffirmation of Bush support for al-Maliki. I find it hard to understand why the Bush loyalists would have the President of the US fly to Jordan to meet with the PM of Iraq, if there was a coup in the works. And as between the Rice/Hadley group (note the recent resignation of Zelikow [sp?]) and the Cheney neocons, which group do you think would be more likely to support a coup? The long knives are out.

Speculating further, if we assume Bush did not really want the memo leaked, when didn’t they condemn its leak? Because Cheney is still too strong?

This stuff makes my head hurt; it is more Byzantine than the Byzantians.

The Bushies feel “slighted” because Webb doesn’t want his son to die or be maimed? How dare they!

And they put the whole “government” of Iraq in the Green Zone behind concrete walls, barbed wire and armed troops. Yeah, that’ll work.

Hugh @28:

Brilliant analysis. I just know that you don’t give Bush credit for even understanding the rhetorical devices buried in his speech.

angie @ 60

Scarborough alleging that Nancy is playing politics with the intel position. Young, bright lady “Anna” rebuts him beautifully.

Scarborough wants Harman so bad and so does Monica Crowley– they are crying and worrying and wringing their hands about national security.

Buchanan says Nancy has handled her speakership horribly.

Thanks guys.

PS– I also have nothing but contempt for Powell.

I wouldn’t make anyone chair of the Intel committee if they voted Yes on the Iraq War Resolution. If they served on that committee, they should have known the Intel was crap and voted accordingly.

OT: Texan politicians renew their longstanding commitment to corruption. I’m sure there will be no DeLay in implementation.

Texas Ethics Commission: Reporting gift size not required

Excerpt: Texas law requires public officials to file personal financial disclosure statements describing any gifts they get that are worth more than $250.

However, the ethics commission voted 5-3 on Monday to approve a staff advisory opinion that said describing such a gift simply as a “check” is enough.

The problems of our government are much deeper than what we see on the surface. The problems are that our government … and agents who have access to our treasure are stealing us blind. The militaty indistrial complex has been on a feeding frenzy for 50 years and they need to be stopped cold… all the K street groups… the Kissengers, Cohens, Scowcrofts, Bakers, Livingstons, Carlysles … they are sucking us dry.

Frist is proibably going to K street to make a few hundred million greasing arms sales to whichever country and weapons company want to make a deal.

If we see him in the Dock at the Hague,
There’s a tune in there…
Naah, nevermind….

johnSwifty @ 54

twolf1 @
52

bye, bye, American ziggurat
drove your ziggy to the margin ’til the margin was wide

My ears are burning, I think I’ll cut one off…tonight…when the stars are out.

I believe this procedure rendered Van Gogh asymmetrical. Prolly hurt too.

lina @ 70

I wouldn’t make anyone chair of the Intel committee if they voted Yes on the Iraq War Resolution. If they served on that committee, they should have known the Intel was crap and voted accordingly.

Sounds fair to me.

“Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur.”

Divide Iraq into a threesome…

Jack

lina– I want Rush Holt for head of intel– he voted no.

I said yesterday that I wish that no dem who voted for war would get chairmanships– I really would like that.

Harman is the kind of hawk we do not need.

uh oh. Girl fight at the House of Intel?

My experience–the worst kind of brawl.

But I’m throwing down with Grandma.

johnSwifty @
54

twolf1 @
52

bye, bye, American ziggurat
drove your ziggy to the margin ’til the margin was wide

My ears are burning, I think I’ll cut one off…tonight…when the stars are out.

Don’t forget to take your meds.

We mail body parts!

punaise @ 66

Christy Hardin Smith @ 61

Note from CHS: Please do not go over two blockquotes nested in a single post. It blows our margins. Thanks, much!

let’s respect the culture of zignity.

punaise kept me up late punning. I was too tired to notice the distance. I need to parallax. I’m sorry.

Re: large margins. Get software which allows a gazillion nests to be seen at the same time without margin expansion. Of course now that I think about, this my not be a good solution. Because each of us would then have to invest in electron microscopes in order to read the poly nested comments. Life is so full of trade-offs.

bg at 78 — why is it a girlfight when two women disagree on policy — but it is politics when Tom DeLay does it? Pelosi has been involved on the Intel committee for years, and has served emeritus since she left the committee for leadership as a resource. She knows her stuff on intel matters, and she has some fundamental policy disagreements with Harman on several matters, including Harman’s NSA back-up for the White House in a number of ways and the lack of questions that needed asking in the run-up to the Iraq mess. Those are substantive disagreements — so don’t fall for the press spin on the girl fight” thing — it’s the GOP and press attempt to demean Pelosi’s leadership before she even gets into the Speaker’s chair, and it’s appalling.

OT but hooray!

Gore admitted that “it’s almost too easy to say, ‘I would have heeded the warnings,’” but left little doubt that he thought the president hadn’t done as much as he should have, when warned by the CIA that bin Laden was determined to attack the Unites States in the summer of 2001.

“In fact, I think I would have, I know I would have,” Gore said. “We had several instances when the CIA’s alarm bells went off, and what we did when that happened was, we had emergency meetings and called everybody together and made sure that all systems were go and every agency was hitting on all cylinders, and we made them bring more information, and go into the second and third and fourth level of detail.”

“It is inconceivable to me that Bush would read a warning as stark and as clear [voice angry now] as the one he received on August 6th of 2001, and, according to some of the new histories, he turned to the briefer and said, ‘Well, you’ve covered your ass,’” Gore continued. “And never called a follow up meeting. Never made an inquiry. Never asked a single question. To this day, I don’t understand it.”

Gore said that he thought it was “fair to say” that Bush “personally does in fact bear a measure of blame for not doing his job at a time when we really needed him to do his job.”

(snip)

According to GQ, Gore “practically” began screaming when he spoke of the lack of “accountablity” by the Bush Administration.

“But dammit, whatever happened to the concept of accountability for catastrophic failure?” Gore said. “This administration has been by far the most incompetent, inept, and with more moral cowardice, and obsequiousness to their wealthy contributors, and obliviousness to the public interest of any administration in modern history, and probably in the entire history of the country!”

(emphasis mine)

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._1129.html

Most of the secularists in Iraq were Baathists or at least connected to them nominally. We got rid of them. Since, the Sunni insurgency initiated by the ousted Baathists has taken on an increasingly fundamental tone.

The Shia majority originally listened to leaders like Sistani, an Iranian without an Iranian agenda living in Iraq but Sistani was a religious leader without any real political program. SCIRI and Dawa, Iraqi parties with strong ties to Iran, picked up a lot of the slack. Both Jaafari and Maliki are from Dawa. (It is no coincidence that Saddam’s death sentence came for reprisals associated with a Dawa inspired assassination attempt against him.) Both received support from Muqtada al Sadr, a Shia religious leader, Iraqi nationalist (as opposed to the pro-Iranian bit), and head of the Mahdi Army. SCIRI is led by Abdul Aziz al Hakim. He is pro-Iranian and has pushed for a regional autonomous super province in the South of Iraq. Now we are trying to pry the pro-Iranian Maliki from the pro-Iraqi Sadr because well I’m really not sure.

The point of this exercise is I suppose simply to agree that there are no good choices in Iraq. We may well seek to arm the Shia because they are the majority but they are factionalized and could use such weapons against each other as well as the Sunnis. Many Shia leaders would prefer the establishment of a religiously run government on the Iranian model. Most with the exception of Sadr would like to see this entity closely allied to Iran (although how long term or realistic such an alliance would be is another question).

In this environment, it needs to be asked again: What is our mission? What could it conceivably be?

does anyone wonder if Maliki is going to make it back to Baghdad? Or if he’ll still be in charge when/if he does get back?

It appears the US has their own Baghdad Bob. Calls himself GWBush.

OT: Meanwhile, on the other side of Asia…(emphasis mine).

U.S. bans sale of iPods to North Korea

The Bush administration wants North Korea’s attention, so like a scolding parent it’s trying to make it tougher for that country’s eccentric leader to buy iPods, plasma televisions and Segway electric scooters. The U.S. government’s first-ever effort to use trade sanctions to personally aggravate a foreign president expressly targets items believed to be favored by Kim Jong Il or presented by him as gifts to the roughly 600 loyalist families who run the communist government.

Hey, dipshits. Want North Korea’s attention? Try good-faith negotiation. It’s a virtually untapped resource in this dispute.

Petulance as trade policy. Jeebus, these people are fucked up.

Oklahoma kiddo @
51

Message To West Point
Bill Moyers
November 29, 2006

Many of you will be heading for Iraq. I have never been a soldier myself, never been tested under fire, never faced hard choices between duty and feeling, or duty and conscience, under deadly circumstances. I will never know if I have the courage to be shot at, or to shoot back, or the discipline to do my duty knowing the people who dispatched me to kill—or be killed—had no idea of the moral abyss into which they were plunging me.

http://www.tompaine.com/articl….._point.php

I absolutely love Bill Moyers, especially when he talks about poetry and the power of language. Here’s another snippet from the speech at West Point:

People in power should be required to take classes in the poetry of war. As a presidential assistant during the early escalation of the war in Vietnam, I remember how the President blanched when the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said it would take one million fighting men and 10 years really to win in Vietnam, but even then the talk of war was about policy, strategy, numbers and budgets, not severed limbs and eviscerated bodies.

That experience, and the experience 40 years later of watching another White House go to war, also relying on inadequate intelligence, exaggerated claims and premature judgments, keeping Congress in the dark while wooing a gullible press, cheered on by partisans, pundits, and editorial writers safely divorced from realities on the ground, ended any tolerance I might have had for those who advocate war from the loftiness of the pulpit, the safety of a laptop, the comfort of a think tank, or the glamour of a television studio. Watching one day on C-Span as one member of Congress after another took to the floor to praise our troops in Iraq, I was reminded that I could only name three members of Congress who have a son or daughter in the military. How often we hear the most vigorous argument for war from those who count on others of valor to fight it. As General William Tecumseh Sherman said after the Civil War: “It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation.”

[snip]

I want to be clear on this: Vietnam did not make me a dove. Nor has Iraq; I am no pacifist. But they have made me study the Constitution more rigorously, both as journalist and citizen. Again, James Madison:

In no part of the Constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war and peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department. Beside the objection to such a mixture to heterogeneous powers, the trust and the temptation would be too great for any one man.

Twice in 40 years we have now gone to war paying only lip service to those warnings; the first war we lost, the second is a bloody debacle, and both rank among the great blunders in our history. It is impossible for soldiers to sustain in the field what cannot be justified in the Constitution; asking them to do so puts America at war with itself. So when the Vice President of the United States says it doesn’t matter what the people think, he and the President intend to prosecute the war anyway, he is committing heresy against the fundamental tenets of the American political order.

Thanks, OK Kiddo!

Ok, purged that out of control comment, will try again.

OT

Accept defeat by Taliban, Pakistan tells NATO

I saw a snippit on the news last night on Iraqi refugees trying to escape, but don’t know the source. It seemed like very large numbers – and increasing. Anybody have a source? This will surely have an impact on who will be ruling a nation of nothing left but fighters.

Are you sitting down?

Because this is big. Really big.

It is safe to say that many of us have been waiting for this announcement for years.

*Joe Biden* is running for president.

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe…..resident_0

/snark

I wouldn’t make anyone chair of the Intel committee if they voted Yes on the Iraq War Resolution. If they served on that committee, they should have known the Intel was crap and voted accordingly.

You’d be surprised what the intel commitee doesn’t know, especially when they aren’t conducting oversight.

*xyz @ 92

Are you sitting down?

Because this is big. Really big.

It is safe to say that many of us have been waiting for this announcement for years.

*Joe Biden* is running for president.

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe…..resident_0

/snark

Who?

Hat tip to Josh Marshall for the Biden news.

Our mission was to pump up the military indistrial complex… to dump billions into it… to skeer the world that we would kick ass if they didn’t do what we want… and give us access to our drug of choice OIL.

Using the military is like using the comet cleanser to clean the sink… you just replace it… new soldiers, new equipment and wipe out another stain.

As far as Bush people we ARE accomplishing the mission. The mission is war, chaos and defense spending… Looks like they accomplished that.. eh?

Why do people think that what these lying scum politicians say is what they mean. It’s all double speak BS propaganda bait and switch. K street and cash rule… not congress. Our little experiment in democracy is a joke now. Our media is owned… our votes are stolen… our rights have been trashed… all we do is get to pay taxes and moan… and some give up their lives for these bastards.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 82

bg at 78 — why is it a girlfight when two women disagree on policy — but it is politics when Tom DeLay does it? Pelosi has been involved on the Intel committee for years, and has served emeritus since she left the committee for leadership as a resource. She knows her stuff on intel matters, and she has some fundamental policy disagreements with Harman on several matters, including Harman’s NSA back-up for the White House in a number of ways and the lack of questions that needed asking in the run-up to the Iraq mess. Those are substantive disagreements — so don’t fall for the press spin on the girl fight” thing — it’s the GOP and press attempt to demean Pelosi’s leadership before she even gets into the Speaker’s chair, and it’s appalling.

I am just now getting caught up with the various posts after being off line for a couple of days. The Pelosi bashing is going full bore out here where I am. My local TV news had a bit about Nancy’s vineyard’s not using union/paying union scale to the workers. The piece thoroughly debunked the charges made by right wing radio, but the lead-in still would have left the channel surfing viewer with the impression that she was doing something wrong. The second thing was a reprinted report from the Washington Post about her decisions on the chair of the intel committee. The story was fairly straight forward, but the headline was that she “snubbed” the two democrats concerned.

Hugh @ 84

Both received support from Muqtada al Sadr, a Shia religious leader, Iraqi nationalist (as opposed to the pro-Iranian bit), and head of the Mahdi Army. SCIRI is led by Abdul Aziz al Hakim. He is pro-Iranian and has pushed for a regional autonomous super province in the South of Iraq. Now we are trying to pry the pro-Iranian Maliki from the pro-Iraqi Sadr because well I’m really not sure.

The point of this exercise is I suppose simply to agree that there are no good choices in Iraq. We may well seek to arm the Shia because they are the majority but they are factionalized and could use such weapons against each other as well as the Sunnis. Many Shia leaders would prefer the establishment of a religiously run government on the Iranian model. Most with the exception of Sadr would like to see this entity closely allied to Iran (although how long term or realistic such an alliance would be is another question).

In this environment, it needs to be asked again: What is our mission? What could it conceivably be?

Remember: several Shia leaders in Iraq were in exile in Iran–from the time of the 8-year war.

As for the US mission? Well, a foreign army supporting one side against the other in a civil war is simply a recipe for disaster, period. As for the US in a conundrum? Only someone like Bush (and his enablers) could have gotten the US in this non-zero-sum situation.

*xyz @ 95

Hat tip to Josh Marshall for the Biden news.

Really? Yawn. Sure he didn’t just borrow Duncan Hunter’s speech by accident?

lina @ 70

I wouldn’t make anyone chair of the Intel committee if they voted Yes on the Iraq War Resolution. If they served on that committee, they should have known the Intel was crap and voted accordingly.

I agree, and I also wouldn’t make anyone chair of the Intelligence Committee if they came out of the briefings on the wiretapping program and said “of course I support the program.” I thought I was going to hit the roof when I heard her say that! She changed her tune a bit when she had a primary challenger, but that’s not enough, especially when you consider the games this administration tries to pull with intelligence matters.

Joe Biden is completely full of obfusgation with some outright lies tossed in… He is pimp for the banks and credit industry.

Any real populist will be assassinated. They always are.

Reality Bidens.

“People do not forget. They do not forget the death of their fellows, they do not forget torture and mutilation, they do not forget injustice, they do not forget oppression, they do not forget the terrorism of mighty powers. They not only don’t forget; they also strike back.” Harold Pinter, Nobel Laureate

The central tenet of American foreign policy hasn’t changed since the early 1980s when Secretary of State Henry Kissinger summarized our involvement in the Iraq-Iraq War saying, “I hope they kill each other.” Kissinger’s dictum reveals the basic racial and religious odium which animates the current policy and has become the organizing principle for maintaining the global empire.

Now that the Muslim world has been systematically ravaged from the southern-most part Gaza to the northern tip of Afghanistan, we can see that the application of the Kissinger Doctrine is an effective method for decimating societies where coveted resources are located.

By all accounts, it’s been a huge success.

The policy seems to be working best in Iraq, where provocative counterinsurgency operations have incited a massive sectarian war. The conflict produces an ever-increasing number of civilian casualties many of whom have been killed by other Iraqis. No doubt Kissinger is gratified that his theory is working out so splendidly.

much more here:

http://www.informationclearing…..e15762.htm

kristinejoy @ 99

Really? Yawn. Sure he didn’t just borrow Duncan Hunter’s speech by accident?

707!

How exactly does the Iraqi constitution permit al-Sadr’s withdrawal or suspension of participation or support? Is this like the Texas Lege Dems who ran to Oklahoma during the redistricting vote being forced on them? Could The Hammer enlist the FBI or another Federale agency to round up the Sadrites to un-withdraw or un-suspend?

And who got the BagAirport & BagAirRoad safe enough for al-Maliki to depart for Amman? Are US forces reduced to escorting puppet regimemasters and propping up an unpopular government?

What’s the mission?

Troops
Home
NOW

*xyz @ 92

Are you sitting down?

Because this is big. Really big.

It is safe to say that many of us have been waiting for this announcement for years.

*Joe Biden* is running for president.

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe…..resident_0

/snark

The nation is saved! *g*

Pat_AlexVA @ 93

I wouldn’t make anyone chair of the Intel committee if they voted Yes on the Iraq War Resolution. If they served on that committee, they should have known the Intel was crap and voted accordingly.

You’d be surprised what the intel commitee doesn’t know, especially when they aren’t conducting oversight.

I remember watching to see how Sen. Bob Graham voted on the IWR. If he voted no, then I figured it was all bullshit.

W’s support for al-Maliki is rock-solid.

punaise @ 108

W’s support for al-Maliki is rock-solid.

So is Dubya’s skull.

RE: KJ @ 99.

Didn’t take long for that to come out. Good one.

sofistic @ 91

I saw a snippit on the news last night on Iraqi refugees trying to escape, but don’t know the source. It seemed like very large numbers – and increasing. Anybody have a source? This will surely have an impact on who will be ruling a nation of nothing left but fighters.

here’s some info for you
http://www.hrw.org/english/doc…..n14670.htm

Hugh @ 106

The nation is saved! *g*

And I was so worried after Cat-Killer declined, figured Jon Stewart would have nobody to ask on his show for quite some time.

Can hardly wait for the Hairpiece to meet the Seat of Heat!!

I guess he’s hoping people forgot about that. Just plagiarism under the bridge, y’know.

File this under weird: the talks between Maliki and Bush have been postponed to tomorrow. No reason given as yet by the WH.

Biden’s campaign consultant for 7-11 sensitivity issues: Felix “Macaca” Allen. he’s available!

Hugh is a stellar contributor to the thinking on FDL. Thanks!

We need to start talking about how Pelosi and the Democrats have sold us out. It’s clear that the DLC corporate whores are in control of the party and nothing is going to change now that the Dems have taken Congress except for a weak increase in the minimum wage that’s so watered-down it’s almost meaningless. Nothing will change in Iraq, corporate power won’t be addressed at all, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

We need to start supporting the Green party now. With our efforts and contributions, they can build the organization necessary to really challenge the DLC Republican-lite Dems in 2008. We need to teach the Dems a lesson – they can’t ignore us progressives anymore. Who’s with me?

angie @ 111

sofistic @ 91

I saw a snippit on the news last night on Iraqi refugees trying to escape, but don’t know the source. It seemed like very large numbers – and increasing. Anybody have a source? This will surely have an impact on who will be ruling a nation of nothing left but fighters.

here’s some info for you
http://www.hrw.org/english/doc…..n14670.htm

That ties directly into the leaked memo. One of the points made was that technocrats should be put in charge of various ministries. My thought was where in the hell were they going to find these technocrats because they have all fled the country.

Margot @ 90

OT

Accept defeat by Taliban, Pakistan tells NATO

According to the article: Western leaders were stunned when they were told this. Things are popping up all over the place. The whole scenario would be exquisite burlesque if it weren’t so tragic.

Again, it needs to be reiterated: People have died (and will die) in this war–for nothing. When the US should have stayed put in Afganistan to solidify the country and erase the Taliban. Instead we have a corrupt Karzai regime unable to hold the country together.

TeddySanFran @ 105

How exactly does the Iraqi constitution permit al-Sadr’s withdrawal or suspension of participation or support? Is this like the Texas Lege Dems who ran to Oklahoma during the redistricting vote being forced on them? Could The Hammer enlist the FBI or another Federale agency to round up the Sadrites to un-withdraw or un-suspend?

Withdrawal is simple, since it’s a parliamentary government. They can just withdraw from the coalition government, and if the government doesn’t have enough seats without them, a new coalition must be formed. But I have no idea what “suspending participation” means.

punaise @ 115

Biden’s campaign consultant for 7-11 sensitivity issues: Felix “Macaca” Allen. he’s available!

I do not like your chances, Mr. Biden.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 114

File this under weird: the talks between Maliki and Bush have been postponed to tomorrow. No reason given as yet by the WH.

W. couldn’t figure out how to open the door.

Byron at 117 — new here? Try reading back through the last few days of posts and see how we’ve been holding DLC feet to the fire for quite some time. Take a peek at a lot of our Blue America candidates. And, sorry, but I’m not with the Green Party push at all — the Ralph Nader approach simply does not work, in my book. But primarying bad candidates with more progressive choices? Yep, we’ve already been working on that here for quite a while.

Byron @ 117

We need to start supporting the Green party now. With our efforts and contributions, they can build the organization necessary to really challenge the DLC Republican-lite Dems in 2008. We need to teach the Dems a lesson – they can’t ignore us progressives anymore. Who’s with me?

Didn’t this happen in 2000 with Ralph Nader?

“We need to start supporting the Green party now. With our efforts and contributions, they can build the organization necessary to really challenge the DLC Republican-lite Dems in 2008. We need to teach the Dems a lesson – they can’t ignore us progressives anymore. Who’s with me?”

Count me most definitely out. Madness.

Bustednuckles @ 122

Christy Hardin Smith @ 114

File this under weird: the talks between Maliki and Bush have been postponed to tomorrow. No reason given as yet by the WH.

W. couldn’t figure out how to open the door.

did Maliki even get there?

Margot @ 90

OT

Accept defeat by Taliban, Pakistan tells NATO

Many Afghans fear that Pakistan is deliberately trying to undermine Mr Karzai and Nato’s commitment to his government in an attempt to reinstall its Taliban proxies in Kabul – almost certainly leading to all-out civil war and possible partition of the country.

no suprise there, Pakistan is no friend of Afghanistan and to say that they are meddling is a grotesque understatement. Thanks Bushco and your BFF Musharraf.

This is unforgiveable.

re: House of Intel

I’ve been accused of too much snark with a straight face.

For the record: MSM Pelosi bashing is really irritating. I am rooting for Pelosi to beat it back. No Harm’n.

kristinejoy @ 113

I guess he’s hoping people forgot about that. Just plagiarism under the bridge, y’know.

I think the plagiarism will be the least of his problems. Can we imagine him in a debate??

A little OT.

From the WaPo:

“I’d like to get them out of Iraq, Mr. President,” Webb responded, echoing a campaign theme.

“That’s not what I asked you,” Bush said. “How’s your boy?”

“That’s between me and my boy, Mr. President,” Webb said coldly, ending the conversation on the State Floor of the East Wing of the White House.”

What is also striking about this encounter is that the newly elected Senator served his country in combat while the President was seeking to shirk his duty in any way he could.

I am incredibly proud to say that Jim Webb is my Senator and that I voted for him. And for speaking for all parents who have watched their children be sent to Iraq and those who could be sent in the future, I will vote for him in 2012 if he should choose to run again.

Alright. I gave the regulars enough time to take this easy shot but no one seems to be taking. “Who’s with me?” Bluto in Animal House. No?

Byron @ 117

We need to start talking about how Pelosi and the Democrats have sold us out. It’s clear that the DLC corporate whores are in control of the party and nothing is going to change now that the Dems have taken Congress except for a weak increase in the minimum wage that’s so watered-down it’s almost meaningless. Nothing will change in Iraq, corporate power won’t be addressed at all, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

We need to start supporting the Green party now. With our efforts and contributions, they can build the organization necessary to really challenge the DLC Republican-lite Dems in 2008. We need to teach the Dems a lesson – they can’t ignore us progressives anymore. Who’s with me?

Maybe we can save this strategy for 2012 or 2016.

I just received a spam email with a Hot! Stock! Alert! from a certain Janie Harman. hmmmmm….

Sparkles the Iguana @ 129

Can we imagine him in a debate??

He would still be leading up to his preamble to his first question 2 hours after everyone had left the building.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 123

And, sorry, but I’m not with the Green Party push at all — the Ralph Nader approach simply does not work, in my book.

I will never ever forgive Nader for 2000. I lost a lot of respect for that man for being so stubborn and egotistical.

There already is a Green Party: it’s the one owned by K Street. We don’t want it.

Oh, you mean the ‘official’ Green Party? The ones that the GOoPers use to attract votes away from Dems? Don’t want it either.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 114

File this under weird: the talks between Maliki and Bush have been postponed to tomorrow. No reason given as yet by the WH.

I’ve been having a really bad gut feeling about this whole mess of this meeting. Maliki must be wicked pissed about the memo – how could he not be? He knows full well that wasn’t any kind of “leak”. Something’s afoot – I’d hate to speculate what…

“That’s between me and my boy, Mr. President, but I see your girls are having fun in Buenos Aires” is how I would have put it to the blowhard, but Webb made his point…

Byron @ 117? As in York? The Greens have lost any credibility to be an “Independant” party. Witnesseth their acceptance of money from Man-on-Dog Santorums allies to run in the recent PA Senate race, albeit somewhat, ummm, extra-legally (if the judge was right).

So Mr. York err Byron@117, let’s give the Dems a chance to be hoist on their own Petard before calling for the resurrection of the “Greens” (just typing that word hurts my fingers).

Byron@117:

“Nothing will change in Iraq, corporate power won’t be addressed at all, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.”

Washington Post 11/29/06:

“If the exchange with Bush two weeks ago is any indication, Webb won’t be a wallflower, especially when it comes to the war in Iraq. And he won’t stick to a script drafted by top Democrats.”

No difference between Dems and Repubs.

Riiight…

To mix metaphors, Maliki stuck his neck out even to meet Bush and got stabbed in the back for his trouble.

I would bet that the meeting is off b/c of

1. Security threat.

2. bush is afraid, very afraid.
No Cheney at his side. Only Condi & shoes.

3. bush ate a day old burrito on the plane…

but I, like OldCoastie, have had a deep sense of foreboding about this meeting.

Green party pipe dreams: Unsafe at any speed

The Green party is actively supported by the Repuglicans specifically to siphon Dem votes…

OldCoastie @ 137

Christy Hardin Smith @ 114

File this under weird: the talks between Maliki and Bush have been postponed to tomorrow. No reason given as yet by the WH.

I’ve been having a really bad gut feeling about this whole mess of this meeting. Maliki must be wicked pissed about the memo – how could he not be? He knows full well that wasn’t any kind of “leak”. Something’s afoot – I’d hate to speculate what…

Hmm, you think Maliki took a page out of Cheney’s book and told Bush to go fuck himself?

Re Jenna and not-Jenna,

When will we see the video “Twins Gone Wild”?

It is not the hallmark of diplomacy to cut out one member of a 3 way summit.

this is stunning.

According to the AP, Bush is still meeting with King Abdullah II today. It’s only the meeting with Maliki that’s been postponed to tomorrow. Doesn’t say whether or not King Abdullah will also be present at Thursday’s meeting.

angie @ 147

It is not the hallmark of diplomacy to cut out one member of a 3 way summit.

this is stunning.

Wait!! Maybe Joe can go!

uh oh, al- Maliki not going to attend the dinner tonight either!

msnbc

SusanD @ 148

According to the AP, Bush is still meeting with King Abdullah II today. It’s only the meeting with Maliki that’s been postponed to tomorrow. Doesn’t say whether or not King Abdullah will also be present at Thursday’s meeting.

yeah, but Bush didn’t get invited to dinner!

he’s getting a spanking… and declared irrelevant…

Ya gotta give Sadr credit for being an man of his word. He said if Maliki met with Bush, he would pull his support. Sure enough, he did. Maliki might as well not even go home. He doesn’t have a government to go back to.

yeah, but Bush didn’t get invited to dinner!

Maybe they couldn’t stomach watching Bush chew with his mouth open.

oh, I dunno! Is it shrub that got cut out of the dinner or al-Malaki?

I heard it was al- Maliki

Lookee here:

Abdullah met with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki Wednesday ahead of crucial talks with Bush in Amman, where the Iraqi and American leaders were set to talk about how to end the sectarian violence plaguing the country.

(emphasis mine)

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S…..e/ShowFull

Maliki got cut out of the three-way? Guess all he can do is go to the kitchen and make himself a sandwich.

Helpless Dancer @ 152

Ya gotta give Sadr credit for being an man of his word. He said if Maliki met with Bush, he would pull his support. Sure enough, he did. Maliki might as well not even go home. He doesn’t have a government to go back to.

Tomorrow, Maliki may be asking Bush for asylum.

Cernig connects some dots in a good post that delves into the reasons for some recent leaks.

The White house has moved from happy talk to scary stories. They do scary stories better than happy talk, they’ve had more practise. Maybe that’s why no-one has questioned the latest media-spinning story plants.

“The American era in the Middle East … has ended,” wrote former senior Bush State Department official Richard Haass, in the journal Foreign Affairs.

For the life of me, I never understood why Israel and its supporters were so keen on US ripping up Iraq…

punaise @ 143

Green party pipe dreams: Unsafe at any speed

Tubular Hells

Biodun @
135

Christy Hardin Smith @ 123

And, sorry, but I’m not with the Green Party push at all — the Ralph Nader approach simply does not work, in my book.

I will never ever forgive Nader for 2000. I lost a lot of respect for that man for being so stubborn and egotistical.

Re #s 117, 123, and this by Biodun @ #135.

1. Al Gore won in 2000. You can waste all the negative energy you care to blaming Nader for Gore’s campaign staff’s ineptitude, but that won’t change history. Nader did NOT cost anybody anything in 2000.

2. The Green Party is probably dead for now. Scores of thousands of fellow ex-Greens returned to the Dems this past year. I’m now a member of the Democratic Party for he first time in my life. One positive thing for Dems in 2006, besides a number of progressive candidates winning house seats and two Senators with progressive potential showing up, is that ex-Greens are staying on to duke it out with the DINOs.

3. It is way early in this battle for control of the future of the Democratic Party for people to go wandering off, muttering “Woe is me!”

mc @ 157

Helpless Dancer @ 152

Ya gotta give Sadr credit for being an man of his word. He said if Maliki met with Bush, he would pull his support. Sure enough, he did. Maliki might as well not even go home. He doesn’t have a government to go back to.

Tomorrow, Maliki may be asking Bush for asylum.

Why should Bush bother? Iranian is the new flavor of exile. How else will he be able to get his war on?

Maybe this is in response to Moqtada’s threat that he made good on today–

al- Maliki ain’t gonna meet with the preznit after all…

AMMAN, Nov 29 (Reuters) – U.S. President George W. Bush has delayed talks with Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki in Jordan until Thursday, U.S. officials said on Wednesday.

The two leaders had been expected to have a meeting with Jordan’s King Abdullah and then dinner with the king after arriving in Amman for a crisis summit on Iraq.

“Since the King of Jordan and the prime minister had a bilateral themselves earlier today, everyone believed that it negated the purpose of the three of them to meet tonight together in a trilateral setting,” Dan Bartlett, White House counsellor, told reporters.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenew…..231342.htm

kristinejoy @ 156

Maliki got cut out of the three-way? Guess all he can do is go to the kitchen and make himself a sandwich.

BBC is still saying all three are supposed to have dinner tonight:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6194458.stm

Ed*ard Teller 160 — bravo! I think you now have the hang of it. You should be running for office in the local party if you aren’t already.

That’s how the Greens will win: by ensuring that Dems stay honest about issues that are critical to Greens, because those issues are not mutually exclusive concerns of Greens.

And that’s the only way Dems will win, too, by supporting their natural constituencies like folks with Green sensibilities.

EvilDrPuma @
104

kristinejoy @ 99

Really? Yawn. Sure he didn’t just borrow Duncan Hunter’s speech by accident?

707!

Ok, I obviously missed an expansion phase in FDL commentary lingo. What does 707 mean?

New thread, all. Thought you could use some fresh digs.

angie @ 127

Margot @ 90

OT

Accept defeat by Taliban, Pakistan tells NATO

Many Afghans fear that Pakistan is deliberately trying to undermine Mr Karzai and Nato’s commitment to his government in an attempt to reinstall its Taliban proxies in Kabul – almost certainly leading to all-out civil war and possible partition of the country.

no suprise there, Pakistan is no friend of Afghanistan and to say that they are meddling is a grotesque understatement. Thanks Bushco and your BFF Musharraf.

This is unforgiveable.

Also, I heard an NPR reporter yesterday say something about Pakistan accusing Afghanistan of coming across their border and bombing (I think). Not the Taliban—they accuse Karzai’s people of this. I wish I could find it but don’t know when it was. Late afternoon I believe.
She also said she was going to ask questions of people in the Pakistani government and when she got there, they had a roomful of men and they peppered HER with questions: “We know 9/11 was an inside job. Respond.”
Anyone else hear this who can remember better than I?

“A classified memorandum by President Bush’s national security adviser expressed serious doubts about whether Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki had the capacity to control the sectarian violence in Iraq and recommended that the United States take new steps to strengthen the Iraqi leader’s position.”

I might be nit-picking here but how can a
memorandum express doubts? Is a memo alive?
Wasn’t it Stephen Hadley expressing doubts?
Be expressive and active, don’t couch, NYT!

Jack

“Ok, I obviously missed an expansion phase in FDL commentary lingo. What does 707 mean?” Yeah. Me too. In my lurkin’-pre-outed days this one seems to have eluded me.

Pat_AlexVA @ 165

EvilDrPuma @
104

kristinejoy @ 99

Really? Yawn. Sure he didn’t just borrow Duncan Hunter’s speech by accident?

707!

Ok, I obviously missed an expansion phase in FDL commentary lingo. What does 707 mean?

LOL – laughing out loud;
707 – laughing out loud so hard that you tip over backward in your chair with your legs flying over your head!

Pat_AlexVA:

707 is an upside own LOL (laughing out loud), from falling over backwards in your chair

707 = laughing out loud so hard you flip over (it’s upside down LOL)

Pat_AlexVA:

707 is upside-down LOL as in falling backwards out of one’s chair…

:-)

This from AP as of 24 minutes ago. The question is: Who is having dinner with whom tonight? Will there even be a dinner at all? I await with bated breadth! The whole republic depends on the answer to this crucial question.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…..ref=slogin

Re:

Explanation for 707…

707

Hugh @84 has pointed out the nasty reality in Iraq. I think it is also important to remember that the Dawa Party was also exiled in Damascus, although their spiritual home is Iran, and they helped create Hizbollah back in the 1980’s. Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was Dawa bureau chief in Damascus at the time. Politically they are radical Shiites with many similarities to Hizbollah.

The group that has actually been empowered by the war in Iraq and Israel’s recent retreat from Lebanon is the Hizbollah-Iraqi Shiite-Iranian alliance. We should not, however, think of this as some monolithic Axis of Evil. There are many factions, but all are opposed to Israeli-American interests. Back in July the Likudnik Democrats condemned Maliki for not rebuking Hizbollah. It was crazy to think he would, but it shows their understandable dissatisfaction with the leadership of Iraq. You know, for a group of people who focus a lot of attention on the Middle East they seem to know very little. They should have seen this coming.

Sadr is really the odd man out here. He is such a nationalist, a sort of king of slums, that he could pretty easily break ranks with the establishment, as he has with his support of Nuri al-Maliki.

Byron @ 117

We need to start talking about how Pelosi and the Democrats have sold us out. It’s clear that the DLC corporate whores are in control of the party and nothing is going to change now that the Dems have taken Congress except for a weak increase in the minimum wage that’s so watered-down it’s almost meaningless. Nothing will change in Iraq, corporate power won’t be addressed at all, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

We need to start supporting the Green party now. With our efforts and contributions, they can build the organization necessary to really challenge the DLC Republican-lite Dems in 2008. We need to teach the Dems a lesson – they can’t ignore us progressives anymore. Who’s with me?

Not I.