
Perhaps it is just my innate cynicism, but when I read this:
The Justice Department's inspector general yesterday announced an investigation into the department's connections to the government's controversial warrantless surveillance program, but officials said the probe will not examine whether the National Security Agency is violating the Constitution or federal statutes….
The "program review" will examine how the Justice Department has used information obtained from the NSA program, as well as whether Justice lawyers complied with the "legal requirements" that govern it, according to Fine's letter. Officials said the review will not examine whether the program itself is legal.
The announcement signals a new level of scrutiny for the NSA program, which was launched shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and revealed in news reports in December 2005. The program has been ruled unconstitutional by one federal judge, but Bush and other administration officials have strongly defended it as a legal and efficient way to protect the nation from terrorist attacks.
The probe comes amid a dramatically changed political environment. Democrats who have been sharply critical of the surveillance program will soon control the Judiciary and intelligence committees, which oversee Justice and the NSA. Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.), the incoming chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, called Fine's investigation "long overdue."…
"I wonder whether this reversal is only coming now after the election as an attempt to appease Democrats in Congress who have been critical of the NSA program and will soon be in control and armed with subpoena power," Hinchey said in a news release.
…what it translates into is this:
Attorney General Gonzales: "I'm sorry Senator Leahy, but I cannot answer that question due to an ongoing investigation within the Department of Justice. That goes for you, too, Representative Conyers."
Unfortunately for the Bush Administration, I don't think that convenient dodge is going to work as well as it used to with the Republican rubber stamp Congress. Come January, I guess we'll see.
And when you take a peek at the WaPo article from which the above excerpt was taken, don't miss Lanny Davis providing the Administration cover on their handling of the domestic NSA program. Can we please get new Democratic public spokespeople who have some understanding of criminal and constitutional law concepts, and the reason we have the Bill of Rights and a commitment to civil liberties, please? Because all the Administration spin in the world does not negate the need for obtaining a warrant or for some third-party oversight to prevent the creeping in of abuse of power over time. There is a reason that such safeguards were built into the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, our legal precedents over the last two hundred plus years and into the FISA system — it's called "the rule of law", Lanny. Just FYI. I know it's been a while since it has been honored within the Beltway, but the rest of us out here in the American hinterlands still think that our Constitution is pretty nifty. I'm just saying…
Bruce Fein has some ideas about restoring Congressional oversight and accountability in an op-ed in the WaTimes, which includes some intriguing thoughts on working around the constant assertion of executive privilege that the Bush White House continually sets up to obstruct any checks and balances. It is going to be an interesting next few months, to say the least. And it is about time.



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Fitz!
Hey y’all.
Memo to the media – Lanny Davis is not a Democrat. He does not speak for us.
*xyz at 3 – you probably picked up on this, but Lanny Davis ticked me off. *g*
washington post;
so, will the president “listen to the generals in the field”? or will he ignore the obvious in a pale attempt to avoid opoligizing for what he has wrought?
Leahy!
One great Senator who will not stand for this– I can hear him roaring now.
Hi tommy yum!
This is why I think it is so important that democratic control was regained in the house and senate. We need serious oversight into the way the administration has abused their authority and our constitution. And call me nostalgic, but I am still waiting for part 2 of phase 2 of the pre-war intelligence committee’s report that Robert’s has been sitting on for two years. I can’t wait until Leahy, Rockefeller, Conyers, et al get their chance at deciding what the agenda is.
Soooo, exactly what kind of butt sniffing is this?
The WaPo also has an article up about the pending investigations into government contracting (especially no bid and large military contracts). One of the little tidbits of the piece – so on topic here that it is scary – is this:
Inconceivable! Oh, wait a minute . . .
I guess it’s not so hard to believe that younger staffers would have no clue about congressional oversight, based on the folks who’ve been teaching them for the last six years.
perris @ 5: opoligizing
Great new word! Somewhere between op ed and apology. Way to negate the latter with the former. Love it!
As I said in the last thread:
Anyone else think that the White House will simply refuse to comply with subpoenas, initiating a long court battle to string out the investigations as long as possible?
And (from Christy’s final link) the concept of:
A Democrat-controlled 110th Congress must enact new legislation to challenge executive privilege if it hopes to exercise meaningful oversight of the White House. The legislation should establish House and Senate legislative-executive committees featuring legislative majorities to arbitrate disputes over congressional access to national security information. The arbitrations should be binding and shielded from judicial review. Executive privilege based on a generalized interest in the confidentiality of presidential communications to ensure candid advice from subordinates should be explicitly rejected.
…would itself be rejected (vetoed).
and can I just state for the record that in the close to two years I have been lurking and occasionally posting at this site…, that was my very first #1 FITZ. :) So I saw Fitz got a win against the New York Times regarding the leak investigation (not CIA). I haven’t kept up on that case, but am wondering when we will be hearing more on ol’ Scoots. Is the hearing scheduled for February?
We can expect a two years of cat-and-mouse played high-stakes in these oversight committees. The AG on up will stonewall and perform foot dragging that will make Happy Feet penguins green with envy, all the while making up new and interesting interpretations of the law, while Conyers et all will ask the same questions, over and over, louder and louder, with the occasional legal paper served.
I’m stocking up on organic popcorn…soon as my throat can swallow again.
How are you doing marksb?
And Bustednuckles at 8– ROTFLMAO!
The DOJ OIG investigation has been stalled for over a year b/c the WH refused to grant clearances to OIG personel needed to conduct the investigation. A couple months ago, the OIG issued a statment saying they could not do any ivestigation b/c of the WH refusal to grant clearances.
I bitched about it at the time.
I don’t know if the WH is fianlly knuckling under, I think it is more likeley that thay will hide behind the investigation to avoid answering questions on th eHill
marksb at 13 — speaking of your throat, how are you doing these days? Was thinking about you yesterday and hoping you were hanging in there…
Posted in the wrong thread, must be a middle-aged moment. Anyway…
Another consideration not discussed much is if the Democrats trade away some of their ‘investigative capital’ for pet (pork) projects. Their track record in this respect is not always great. If Bush doesn’t veto ‘A’ the Dems won’t investigate ‘B’ quite as vigorously.
Politic is the Art of the Possible.
Horse trading for programs dear to progressive hearts is tempting, I.E. – healthcare, global warming, social security, unfunded pension program reforms etc….
Any thoughts on actual legislative progress in Bush’s lame duck years.
Are the pending investigations a gun to DumbAss’ pea brain?
Lanny Davis is a bad actor we have the Clintons to thank for. He was a lousy spokesman during 1998 and then in 2000, he did an OpEd in the Times scolding Democrats for questioning George W. Bush’s intelligence. He was wrong and the Democrats who said Bush was unfit to be President were right. If there was any justice, Lanny Davis should have been naked and flogged in a public square many times for that OpEd.
And he’s done so much more harm since with his OpEds and Lieberman and now this one. Democrats should start publicly disavowing Lanny Davis if they are serious about doing anything good for the country.
I posted this at greater length in the previous thread, but perhaps it bears repeating:
I think we’d do well to refresh our collective memory on the details of the Watergate investigation and subsequent actions. Sen. Sam Erwin and Rep. Peter Rodino did some amazing work leading their respective hearings.
Anybody wanna start a book club? :-)
lhp at 15 — it’s a dodge on the WH’s part, I think. The IG has clearance to investigate conduct on the part of DoJ attorneys in using evidence collected via the NSA program. But the Public Responsibility office that was initially doing the investigation still has no clearance and had to close off their portion of the investigation, which included, I think, a look into the constitutionality questions. (Which, likely, is why the clearances were denied in the first place…)
I just hope we have a great Democratic PAR-TAY coming up. And I mean that in every sense of the word.
It would be so great if the Dems would be able to walk the line between bi-partisan/bi-cameral and plodding oversight. . .all the while staying on their toes.
I believe we have a lotta work ahead to keep them honest doing the people’s work.
angie @ 6
“No, Mr. Vice President–you go fuck yourself!”
thank you for calling out that tool Lanny Davis.
Lanny and the Clusterfuck were classmates at Yale- Lanny found the young fascist to be caring and supportive of the weak and powerless during that period and came to admire him..
Even if there’s any truth to that bullshit- Lanny can’t help but see what the boy wonder has turned into– I have no idea what he’s tryin ta do- but it ain’t workin…He’s really wastin his time- and ours.
whatever . . .
Abu, can you say in camera ? I knew ya could
oh and by the way, raise your punk ass right hand . . .
Bustednuckles @ 8
Bushco standard operating procedural butt sniffing. Investigate yourself and declare that all is well.
this is the way I’ve been framing the conversation whenever the warantless issue comes up and it’s important to put it in the proper perspective.
we can’t use only “illegal wiretap” or “violation of constitutiton”, or “invasion of privacy”
we also have to put a face on it;
“we have to make sure “officials aren’t stealing from us, stealing our bussiness secrets, and our personal secrets. they can find out our contacts, our sources, where we’ve been, who we’ve spoken to and what we are planning for our bussiness and personal lives, there must be a method to make sure this information is not stolen from Americans”
not exactly of course, you get the idea, but that’s the way we have to frame the discussion
My cynical nature suggests that Lanny staked out a market with little competition–dem doin apologetics for Clusterfuck- and he’s milkin it for a few bucks and that’s the end of the whole thing….
“It is foolish to trade your immortal soul for all the riches in the world- but for WALES?”
egregious or Tommy Yum, if you’re still about -
Re. the Kissell recount – Do you know if they’re doing a count of ALL ballots or some percentage thereof?
MayDaze @ 11
This is a concise history of DeadEye’s goals: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/112706F.shtml
Clusterfuck may have a very low resting pulse rate- but I don’t think that he can sniff his own butt.
Gentleman Jim @ 17
I don’t necessarily expect a great deal of legislative process–I expect Bush to finally discover the wonders of veto power. And that’s why the horse-trading you suggest need not happen. What the Dems can do is push forward with any investigations and with important legislation clearly demanded by the public, and when the veto pen comes out, make sure to blame Bush’s obstructionism and indifference to the public will in loud and certain terms. This can be a win-win.
jmba @ 12
If all goes well the Libby Trial starts January
17th… just in time for the State of The Union
Address… where more bullshit will be hurled.
Jack
Lanny Davis and James Carville can go Cheney themselves, or shit in each others hats.
What a pathetic pair.
OT.
I found the perfect Republican response to the civil war on another blog. It said:
“OK it’s a civil war, now you liberals got what you wanted!”
-GSD
Since when does the press and networks need
permission to call it a Civil War?
Jack
rwcole @ 24
Then Joan is right–Lanny is a bad actor, and he doesn’t choose his script very well, either.
Wise sailors follow the rats. I have a hunch that Lanny may not be a wise sailor.
Somewhat OT (but is Iraq really OT?):
Inarticulate as usual, Bush said he’ll ask Al-Maliki on Thursday for ideas about how to stop the war in Iraq. This from Salon’s War Room today:
Bush is truly pitiful.
Link here:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/
Here’s something for you, Jack.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
GSD @ 34
“OK it’s a civil war, now you liberals got what you wanted!”
Yep, this is exactly what I wanted when I was marching in the street against the war, before the war.
Gentleman Jim @ 17
I’m not sure there’s even the level of mutual trust to start such a dialog. If you mean doing this horsetrading “behind the curtain”, I think approaching Bush could raise the possibility that someone in his administration would “leak” the fact that the Dems are proposing such a move – it’s not like they haven’t leaked to their own advantage in the past. The political implications are obvious, especially when the biggest issue to the voters is corruption.
Since Nov 18, my Christmas Card To The World has been downloaded 763 times. I’m hoping that “The Gift” with your help will have a profound effect on this holiday season.
And Thanks to the folks who have shown interest in my “Love Songs From Ground Zero” CD
Clusterfuck doin his usual “stayin the course” bullshit- but now he’s added a wrinkle- “the whole problem is Al Queda..
This is, of course, classic Clusterfuck bullshit- Al Queda is responsible for at most 20% of the shit goin on in Iraq- but to admit that our troops are tryin to referee a civil war takes all the wind out of Clusterfuck’s sails- so he just SAYS shit that isn’t even close ta being true- true psychotic!!
Lanny Davis, HoJo, Hillary, Carville, & Bill all part of the same party.
angie @ 38
Thanks Angie,
Old Tom Carlyle would be bloody shocked…
The term Fourth Estate refers to the press, both in its explicit capacity of advocacy and in its implicit ability to frame political issues. The term goes back at least to Thomas Carlyle in the first half of the 19th century.
ya, I love that the washington post needs permission to call it a civil war.
rich stuff there
Hope KO takes Clusterfuck’s latest flamin lies and tears em apart in public tonight..Al Queda? Total bullshit!
And maybe a little deeper investigation into those
mysterious anthrax attacks while we’re at it, eh, Senator Leahy?
EvilDrPuma,
I agree that the charge of obstructionism should be used early and often. That the DOJ puts together an investigation just before Democrats take over in the Congress can be and should be seen as nothing else. It should be called nothing else.
Even so, there are investigations and investigations. Is the DOJ an administrative investigation or a criminal one? What is the basis of either? Those are questions that can be asked.
In addition, even if the DOJ tries to hide behind a criminal investigation, it is my understanding that the Congress can make immunity grants. This might be worthwhile doing for certain selected mid-level players.
bg @
39
It is beyond stunning.
As I said, we will soon be hearing about how the Democrats and the liberals started this war and how they are responsible for the war.
Dana Priest on Hardball sure embodied the illogic and fecklessness of the mainstream media under the thrall the Bush/Cheney military industrial complex.
Must not upset the checkwriters you know.
-GSD
OT: Surprise! …not!
Steve Bell’s still-relevant interpretation from February 2005.
WaPo sucks gooper’s ass for breakfast…don’t wanna get labeled a liberal rag.
Phil @ 43
Looks like a circle jerk from hell.
-GSD
EvilDrPuma @ 50
But I will pull ‘em out one at a time, under cover of darkness with flags draped over their coffins.
-GSD
One of the many unimpressive things about book-pimping Rahm Emmanuel on the Daily Show last night was his response to the Carville question. It was a perfect opportunity to say “that was James Carville, not the Democratic Party. You’ll notice that he doesn’t have an official position; he only speaks for himself.” Same thing with Davis — the only way we can shut these people down is by repeatedly declaring that they’re just mouthing off, and don’t have any actual influence.
Biodun,
Shorter Bush to Maliki: I got nothin’. You?
Perhaps the Dems, while investigating, issuing subpeonas (that get ignored), and being stonewalled by the likes of little men like Gonzales can start with little impeachments. Can they impeach Gonzales? It would be a nice start, and a very effective shot across the bow, for Congress to take out Gonzales when he tries to ignore Congress with that nasty little smirk of his.
I want nothing more than to put my hands on that little twerp and forever remove that smirk from his face. It would be almost as refreshing for Congress to do it for me via his removal (and subsequent arrest).
Lanny likes ta pretend that Clusterfuck is just another gooper president- and not a total threat to the well being of the country and it’s constitution. Why does he want ta do that? Beats me.
OK Christy I see the point about Bruce Fein.
rwcole @ 57
Same reason the Dems put up with Liebermania.
Historical friendships. Can’t get over them.
legislation restricting executive privelege?
strange idea- of course you’d need to pass it over a veto- and wouldn’t you have a court fight- since clusterfuck would maintain that the constitution guarantees it? I don’t get it.
this is so biting it pains my heart
While frustrating, Bush’s inability to see or admit that the civil war in Iraq is a civil war merely serves to keep his credibility in general and on Iraq in particular near zero.
rwcole @ 60
first we need to revole war powers.
then allow “executive priveldege” and impeach for lack of allowing oversite
bg
I wonder if there are any friendships in Washington- the foundation of all relationships is self interest. Lanny could care less if Clusterfuck lives or dies- he’s gettin somethin out of it.
Praedor Atrebates @ 56
That’s not a bad idea, but the problem is, there’s only two years. The same stalling tactics would be employed, just at a lower level (unless some deal is made for Bush to throw Abu under the bus).
Don’t get me wrong, I would love for the Dems to wipe that smirk off his face, too.
Lanny and Carville all want to be on the cocktail party list so they do Hillary’s bidding.
Waccamaw @ 29
Hand count of 3% of random precincts. If the difference is statistically enough to affect the outcome, then a full [hand?] recount.
Please send lawyers,
guns, and money for the Kissell recount fund.Thank you.
Praedor Atrebates – #56
I love your “can start with little impeachments” approach and who better to start with than Gonzales!
1,341 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:
My post speculating about what was gunna happen early in the session to challenge ANY subpoenas of executives or executive documents got EPU’d.
To restate: I think that the Bushchaney strategy is to oppose ANY subpoenas right from the beginning. In the middle of the Constitutional crisis-firestorm that will create, the issue will go ta the packed Supreme Court. If the nazified Court quashes the subpoenas, then the Congress is left to initiate impeachment without access to the documents and testimony necessary to prove the impeachable actions. Then ,by God, the game is on!!!
In my opinion, this has been the fascists’ worst case political endgame scenario since Alito slithered onta the court…but whatever. This is gunna play out early, before the end of January and if the forces of goodness and light don’t wilt, I think we’ll get resignations under the threat of impeachment before the end of February.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…NO TIME FER POPCORN YET!!
OT: Another blow to the wingnut agenda. Apparently, Der Shrubbenfuhrer’s SCOTUS picks aren’t everything they were cracked up to be.
What can I say, except: nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah.
What’s the penalty for contempt of congress- and how is it enforced? Anyone know? May be important soon.
rwcole @ 71
“contempt of congress”.
nice, I like that alot
newspaperbrat @ 68
Well, Rumsfeld, but that ship is sailing fast.
perris @ 72
I wouldn’t wish that on anybody. Besides, we have all the confession we need.
here rwcole:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress
contempt of congress
Col. Pat Lang calls the Wapoo’s editorial page a “neo-con rag”.
Read war drums at the Washington Post.
He offers a quick synopsis as to the Kool-aid like assumptions about the middle east as propagated by the Bush/Cheney ilk.
-GSD
rwcole @ 71
Penalty for contempt can be a year in jail and a $10,000 fine.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb…..t_8-6.html
The problem with a Lanny Davis or a James Carville is the same with much of the media. They call themselves professionals. They expect us to regard them as professionals, but they act repeatedly in ways that are anything but professional. How hard is it really to avoid the stenography of repeating White House talking points or, at least, to identify them as such?
angie @ 75
A year and a thousand dollars? That’s it?
In what is mis-labeled a blog over at The Hill, Zoe Lofgren (D-CA16 – San Jose/Silicon Valley) posted this:
Necessary, indeed. Go get ‘em Zoe! She sits on both Homeland Security and Judiciary committees, so might even get a double whack at the piñata.
(The Hill says of their “blog” – “The Hill’s Congress Blog has been built as a forum for elected government officials, staff and selected policy experts to exchange ideas. Comments by others will rarely be posted on the blog but some will be published as letters in The Hill newspaper, which can also be read at thehill.com.” As if these folks never have an opportunity to exchange ideas otherwise.)
rwcole @ 64
Exactly. The foundations are all those little things that pass between the players all the time.
All the little piles of self interest with the horse trading. . .the backroom deals and all the rest.
If we could take campaign finance out of the equation, it would be a start.
angie @ 75
can congress change the punishment before hearings without approval of the president?
1,341 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen rwcole:
“What’s the penalty for contempt of Congress…?”
To paraphrase a quote from another historical crisis: “How many divisions does the Congress command?”
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…THIS THING IS SPEEDIN’ UP!!
angie- thanks- that’s about what I dimly remembered- the justice dept has to ask for an indictment- as congress has no means of enforcing it’s own sanctions.. Not much to work with.
citizen NorskeFlamethrower , I suppose they can charge and fine him for each and every question
jmba @ 12
the trial scheduled to begin on Jan 15th, but he has filed an appeal from a sealed order by Judge Walton. Many folks assume that the appeal will require an adjournment of the trial date
Christy Hardin Smith @ 20
I agree. However, the OIG clearances were held up by the WH for a full freakin’ year.
Clusterfuck can, apparently, totally avoid testifying at congressional hearings if he’s willing to tell the Attorney General to ignore any “contempt of congress” actions.
Could provide some entertaining conflict in the months ahead.
Hugh @ 62
The worst was Snowjob yesterday declaring that people in Iraq don’t think it’s a civil war (as if they could find actually anyone to say that whose salary isn’t paid by our tax dollars.)
perris @ 83
Bush would be able to veto it, assuming it got to him.
As long as Lanny Davis, Richard Goodstein, and [dangerstein] can appear on the teevee labelled Democratic Strategists, our brand is not safe. What protection have we from such poachers and encroachers? Chairman Dean! — please protect brand Democrat and its adjectival form Democratic.
For instance, Coke wouldn’t permit a former employee who’d worked against them (and for competing Pepsi!!) to call himself a Coke Insider on a business program. So why do these clowns (insult to clowns!) get to assume this identifier that is not their own?
=========
Who’s Next?
=========
Peterr,
They just want to keep the riff raff out. If you let them in, pretty soon they would start thinking they lived in a democracy and that the government was theirs. You can see the dangers of this I’m sure.
perris @ 27
Didn’t you hear? They Bushco gave it a name. It’s called (I kid you not) the Terrorist Surviellance Program. Around criminal justice circles, it’s just the “TSP”.
Lets re-arrange bits of the article above and see if you see what I see.
Basically, Its fucking illegal but we want to make sure you are breaking the law in a neat and orderly way.
Butt sniffers.
Congress has one nuclear weapon- the power of the purse– this could get pretty grim if Clusterfuck wants to fight investigation tooth and nail.
looseheadprop @ 94
Easily mutated:
Total
Spying
Program
perris @ 83
As far as I know, no.
Bush has no bully pulpit left either. He has been abandoned by most of America.
He’s the lonliest chimp in the world.
I don’t think Mr. 18% can do much to help him either.
-GSD
In the latest turn, Iran published:
“U.S. agents in Iraq are doomed to failure and continuation of Iraq’s occupation is not a bite to be swallowed by the U.S.,” he said.
cnn
OT, but regarding impeachable offenses. This is still the prevailing “cool-aide” from my Republican rep.
I am so mad, I’m going have to wait a while before responding – I don’t want to be put on her blacklist.
I used to live in the MI 14th – Conyers district (may he Live Long and Prosper). Maybe it’s better to be in the 10th where I can stir up some trouble for her.
rwcole @ 96
anyone know the origin of the term “nuclear option” for eliminating the filibuster?
egregious @ 67
egregious -
Tks for the feedback. Sent the money; don’t know any appropriate lawyers; guns are an interesting idea ;-) How about roses if we pull this one out?
Heard the count was supposed to start yesterday……..do you have any knowledge of current time frame completion? Hope there are lots of Dem flies on the wall down that way.
It looks like Ayatollah Khameini doesnt’ believe that the US had good intentions in Iraq:
“He said those who are implementing such policies want to pick a Saddam Hussein-style dictator, a move he said will fail.
“Strengthening terrorist groups in Iraq and igniting the flames of insecurity and genocide in the country will be quite risky for the U.S. agents and the region,” the IRNA quotes Khamenei as saying.”
-GSD
Soma @
47
Yes, please. I’m tired of GOPers saying, unchallenged by pundits, “we haven’t had an attack on American soil since 9/11.” We have: several anthra* attacks in late fall 2001, plus all the domestic terroristic threats for which the loon was just arrested in LA, and about which TradMed has been silent. These are attacks! We don’t know who perpetrated the real anthra* attack, although we know people died.
We know who the Feds have charged in the fake powder and real threats sent to Sumner Redstone, David Letterman, Keith Olbermann, Jon Stewart, and Nancy Pelosi. But we sure don’t hear much about either, and the meme that “Bush Daddy’s protected us from terrorism since 9/11″ goes unchallenged.
This must change!
Link
OT: Maybe somebody is paying attention.
Reid also blasts the Republicans for “just leaving town” without settling the “financial mess” of overdue appropriations bills and basically says, fine, we’ll do that ourselves.
This is what we need. Legislation the public demands and a full willingness to drop accountability in the Republicans’ laps.
Meanwhile, things are brewing in Lebanon. Bush has no idea what he’s dealing with in the Middle East. The world is simply too complex for Mr. Bush:
http://www.slate.com/id/2154506/nav/tap1/
Would be great to have a power analysis between congress and the executive branch when it comes to investigations…
First line of defense is to claim executive privelege- what’s the response from congress- and how does it get resolved- etc.
And if members of the executive branch refuse to testify or produce documents- how does that one go?
windje @ 106
Former Speaker of the House and Serial Ethics Violator Newt Gingrich can bite me.
Add a rimshot and your representative could do stand up.
The Pope is going to Turkey with Pontiff hat in hand to beg forgiveness from the Muslims.
Bush and Cheney are going around the world on bended knee and may even have to resort to sucking up to Iran and Syria in order to pull their slowly roasting chestnuts out of the fire.
The “robust US/Western policy” mongers must be shitting pickles at the betrayal by their self-appointed Gods.
-GSD
perris @ 102
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option
Newt wants to be president of Utah.
-GSD
Hugh @ 111
Torture can be defined in various ways. For example, the Bush administration defines it one way (or any way they like at the moment), and compliant signatories of the Geneva Conventions and watchdog organizations define it another way.
EvilDrPuma @ 73
Didn’t KO say last night that Don’s being kept on until late December so that he can pass McNamara’s days-as-SecDef record?
1,341 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..
Citizen rwcole:
As the conversation, speculation and analysis grows on this topic here in the FDL petrea dish of thought and analysis, are you beginnin’ to believe that the fascists strategy right now is to force impeachment hearings in the middle of the Iraq crisis? …well, I am convinced that is what they have in mind, that will set the stage for suspension of the Constitution and declaration of national emergency. Now, whether they have the stones ta pull the trigger or are playin out another Rovian bluff and will go quietly into that good night if their bluff is called, I don’t know. The last “big lie”-big risk taker was a short little paperhanger from Austria and he got himself in so deep he couldn’t fold ‘em when called.
KEEP THE FAITH AND CALL IT WHAT IT IS!!
TeddySanFran @ 116
Could be, but I missed that. Passing up McNamara…now that’s a distinction worth making.
In any event, that’s not going to give the Dems any chance at an impeachment.
Bustednuckles @ 95
No, that’s not it. The courts are the correct place to decide if the program itself is legal. The OIG has a limited mandate. They can examine whether DOJ emplyees are complying with other DOJ regulations and with other parts of the law. For example, there are restrictions upon DOJ emplyees with resect to disclosure of information learned in the Grand Jury. There are also laws concernng the handling of individual’s private financial or other identity information. Hell, under HIPPA, there are laws about the handling of a person’s confidential medical inforamtion.
So, if DOJ employee “X” learns through the “TSP” wiretap that surviellance subject A has a venereal disease because they overhear a conversation between subject A and A’s doctor, and they they go gossiping about that at a Capital Hill bar, well…. the IG won’t like that and very bad things will happen to Employee X’s career.
There are also rules for the internal handling of that sort of info, and of classified info to make sure it is not seen by those not authorized to see it.
Also, they can examine whether internal (or case law generated–like from the FISA Court) standards and balancing tests for determining whether it is necessary to apply for either a Title 3 wiretap warrant or a FISA warrant have been properly applied.
There is plaenty of work for the IG to do, even given the limits on the investigation.
I suspect, but have no way of knowing, that they results of the IG investigation will show career DOJ empoyees trying to apply traditional standards despite a lawless attitude at the top; punctuated by some real horror stories by opportunists with bad judgement who acted like kids in a candy store.
If Lanny Davis was in Philadelphia in 1787, they would have left out the checks and balances and skipped the Bill of Rights.
What is wrong with these people!
“I was pleasantly surprised that the waterboarding used tap water and not waste water.”–Lanny Davis
Howie Kurtz chattzing at WaPoO right now. Go for it, ‘pups!
TeddySanFran @ 116
Yes, although he did pass McNamara’s record of worst Secretary of Defense some time ago. It’s good to see Rumsfeld stay on for reasons like this. It’s not like anyone is dying anywhere.
EvilDrPuma @ 97
G.W. Bush:
“I will mee the Iraqi Prime Minister in Jordan to discuss the situation on the ground in Iraq.”
They have to meet in Jordan because the situation “on the ground in Iraq” is too dangerous.
What a maroon.
-GSD
I raqwar
S till
G oing
Hugh @ 122
That will be right around the time that George W. Bush and Karl Rove will be tallying up the totals for their “book reading” competition too!
Any other trivial pursuits that these fiends are undertaking as the world explodes?
-GSD
Hugh @ 93
Ah, yes – The “Kewl Kidz Rule, Kids” dictum. Lettin’ those others put in their two cents . . . can’t be having that, nosirree. Or am I mixing up memories of an old high school government class with an actual government?
TeddySanFran @ 125
It’s
Swiftly
Going
Lanny Davis was on NPR Weekend Edition spewing some moderate centrist pablum to Scott Simon (now there’s a dynamic pairing for you). It was not a “driveway moment“: I turned off the car radio to step into the bakery for croissants instead.
Gotta go to a funeral. See you all this afternoon.
looseheadprop @ 130
Sorry to hear it.
Congress could nuke the Chimp by withholding funding on a number of items dear to his heartless heart, just like they did to the Vietnam War. How about just having the Iraq Fiasco funded in the regular budget for starts instead of ‘off budget’ and funded with printed IOU’s from DOT.
Look, the lion’s share of the Vietnam War was funded with printed money (ie T-Bills) that came due mostly under Jim Carter’s watch. The paying off of the Vietnam T-bills plus oil prices made the HUGE Inflation of the late 70’s look like it was all Carter’s fault.(Demos too)
Are the Demos going to be left holding the Flaming Bag of Iraq T-Bill Debt?
When is the debt due on the Iraq War?
Hard to tell with it being done ‘off budget’.
It will be Enormous.
Probably by stealing Social Security funds.
It will cause Great Inflation if you have to essentially print money to pay the Iraq War Debt.
Lay this dilemma at the Rethugs feet before Bushit and the Goppers lay it at the Demos.
Money still drives alot of policy in Congress
LHP,
I see your point, which, if I interpret it correctly, is;
If what they are investigating has been done following the FISA rules.
Not, as I was saying , under the warrantless wire tap system.Which has been deemed unconstitutional.
Damn, I’m at work and can’t keep up here today.
I’m not being argumentative.
Missed her.
Sorry about the funeral.
But I see your point.
It’s about ethics, yes?
Michael Ledeen has all of the answers to straighten out this Iraq kerfuffle.
Go get ‘em Mike. From the rear echelons with the rest of the AEI War Corps.
-GSD
Gentleman Jim,
Actually, the supplemental for Iraq and Afghanistan was folded into the 2007 defense bill. There was, I believe, an amendment passed to do this as well although I am not sure when it is supposed to take effect. OTOH the supplemental probably won’t cover all the costs so a further supplemental for Iraq and Afghanistan will have to be approved next year.
CEO @ 58
Christy, I don’t see the point about Bruce Fein. The only way the Cheney Administration will cooperate with Fein’s arbitration committees is if they’re allowed to hand-pick the members. No finesse except confrontation and raw power can possibly resolve this impasse. Either it’s a democracy or it isn’t.
Praeder A. (comment 56) beat me to suggesting my solution. Haul Cheney and high-level appointees — Gonzales, Rice, Rove, etc. — into House investigations one by one. When they pull that unitary executive crap immediately hold impeachment hearings. Bring back Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Powell, Fleischer, McClellan and Hughes, and give them each a turn on the hot seat.
Don’t mess with Bush’s sacred person at all.
Oh, and don’t admit anyone’s spouse or children into the hearing, lest they start crying like Mrs. Alito. If they don’t feel like crying, the committee isn’t doing its job.
There’s no end to this guy’s arrogance: This from BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6191504.stm
GSD @ 134
It’s easy to argue for expanding a war if you aren’t the one who has to cough up the resources.
Hugh @ 135
Cutting funding for the war in Iraq is not a good poltical move for Demos, obviously because Rethugs would use it as a sign of ‘no support for the troops’, but forcing some more ‘pay-as-you-go’ on Bushit and the GOP would hightlight the mind-numbing consequences of this debt. Imagine if you raised taxes to pay for all this in real time.
EvilDrPuma @ 138
Or the blood, when your hummer with its do-it-yourself armor kit is taken out by an IED.
Too bad Junior didn’t skip Poly Science @ Yale.
Nicholas Sambanis believes Iraq is in Civil
War and he should know he’s written two textbooks on the subject. Bush is still in
denial and his premeditated denial should be a grounds for his impeachment
Nicholas Sambanis is Associate Professor of Political Science at Yale University. He received his Ph.D. from Princeton University’s Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs in June 1999.
Paul Collier and Nicholas Sambanis have co-edited two volumes with case studies of civil war that apply and expand the Collier-Hoeffler model of civil war onset:
Understanding Civil War: Evidence and Analysis, Volume 1: Africa
Understanding Civil War: Evidence and Analysis, Volume 2: Europe, Central Asia, and Other Regions
Jack
1,341 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..
Citizens Gentleman Jim and Hugh:
Jim, your construction of the history of the cost of Viet Nam and it’s political effects and your speculation as to the fascists’ current strategy is right on…witness their walkin’ away from the unresolved budget problems of this Congress to dump it on the Democrats in the new session.
Hugh, you are correct about the mechanism the fascists have used this time to push forward the costs of this war…the impact on the economy in the near term will be the same as Jim described, however, and may be large enough to blow our paper mache economy right back ta the 18th century.
KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER…THEY DON’T HAVE HEALTHCARE IN THE RE-EDUCATION CAMPS EITHER!!
New thread, for everyone — thought you might like some fresh comments digs.
May Bunny Greenhouse serve as consultant for the contract investigations.
Pat Lang would have been in Baker’s group had he not been so knowledgeable about all the things that should matter to Baker and his stooges.
TeddySanFran @
105
We know for a fact that two liberal Democrats were targeted in the deadly 2001 anthrax attacks and it is not too much of a stretch to assume why the domestic terrorist picked those two members of the U.S. Senate;
We know the person(s) involved were (& perhaps still are) associated with the U.S. defense dep’t/industry;
We know, as with most legitimate threats or actual offenses against the people of the United States, the Bush administration has not accomplished anything on this investigation; and
We know, as with most legitimate threats or actual offenses against the people of the United States, the Bush administration does not take the issue seriously and/or is not competent in handling a problem they can barely comprehend.
cl
Sally @ 144
Pat Lang is exactly who they need. Good idea about Greenhouse. She’s not one to let anything slide.
Random thought on the civil war:
There have been posts here and other evidence that the US has covertly been involved in fomenting Shia/Sunni fighting.
What would be the reason?
Two things came to mind this AM:
1. For Neocons, only one thing is better than killing an Arab: have them kill eachother
2. An corrolary to the threory “we’ll fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them here”: “Let them kill eachother so they don’t gang up on us.”
There’s just nothing too dirty for Lanny Davis. He is a real hard case. Maybe he calls himself a Dem, but he’s not. Who is he really working for?
I haven’t read through all the comments and apologize if someone has already brought this up, but:
“The announcement signals a new level of scrutiny for the NSA program, which was launched shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and revealed in news reports in December 2005.”
The program was launched well before September 11. It had nothing to do with September 11, even though the Bush administration (and apparently the Washington Post also) wants you to believe that it did.
Has the issue of Operation Firstfruits been mentioned yet in this thread? I’d like to know what, if anything, the D leadership has planned for investigations on this. It appeared to be a deliberate misuse of official resources to cover up/prevent any leaks of the truth that snuck out in the pre-invasion Iraq propaganda.
…The journalist surveillance program, code named “Firstfruits,” was part of a Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) program that was maintained at least until October 2004 and was authorized by then-DCI Porter Goss….
…Firstfruits was a database that contained both the articles and the transcripts of telephone and other communications of particular Washington journalists known to report on sensitive U.S. intelligence activities, particularly those involving NSA…
…In 2001, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court rejected a number of FISA wiretap applications from Michael Resnick, the FBI supervisor in charge of counter-terrorism surveillance. The court said that some 75 warrant requests from the FBI were erroneous and that the FBI, under Louis Freeh and Robert Mueller, had misled the court and misused the FISA law on dozens of occasions. In a May 17, 2002 opinion, the presiding FISA Judge, Royce C. Lamberth (a Texan appointed by Ronald Reagan), barred Resnick from ever appearing before the court again. The ruling, released by Lamberth’s successor, Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelley, stated in extremely strong terms, “In virtually every instance, the government’s misstatements and omissions in FISA applications and violations of the Court’s orders involved information sharing and unauthorized disseminations to criminal investigators and prosecutors . . . How these misrepresentations occurred remains unexplained to the court.”