Hi all!

This post reminds me to rent ‘Groundhog Day’ again. Every day, the same old recycled BS.

WHAT. FUCKING. MISSION????

All kidding aside, I wonder if there is one shred of decency inside that man or once ounce of comprehension.

Balrog @ 0

Hi all!

This post reminds me to rent ‘Groundhog Day’ again. Every day, the same old recycled BS.

Er, from Bush, not from FDL…

Robin Williams?!

FUBAR is the province of the Deciderer

Exactly. When does one of the Stenographers calmly ask “what is the mission?”

I beleive that a “junta” operates on the same philosophy as BushCo. I am surprised Georgie has not moved to desolve congress. He obviously pays lip service to democracy — either that or he does not understand how republican, oops scratch that word, okay representative democracy works.

He needs to feel the force of the U.S. Constitution and be charged with treason.

Could somebody PLEASE photoshop this guys eyeballs a normal distance apart?? Thanks.

Does Bush’s new strategery imply that he has decided to retain what support he has left (yeah, those guys) and ride them until the end?

Jump on my back, you 30%ers, I’m gonna carry us to victory!

Madness. But if he has to choose between going down with the ship he created or admitting he was wrong, I’m guessing he’ll choose the former.

Nothing new here, but intervention must occur.

It truly has become the Madness of King George.

Here is a desperate example of seeing the glass as “half-full”. Is it possible that he keeps repeating this insane drivel in order to buy time for a cleaner, less chaotic withdrawal?? Someone in previous comments to another post said that withdrawals can be messy and dangerous to all involved. I know this theory is shaky at best but maybe the Generals want him speaking as though nothing is changing in the immediate future so they get everyone out w/ fewer casualties…okay back to my bottle and bong ;)

I suspect that it’s in the interests of the American occupation of Iraq for there to be conflict, armed conflict, between the three (four?) factions. If they stop shooting at each other, they would turn their fire on the one thing they are all opposed to: The American occupation forces.

I am just sick over the many young soldiers, sailors, marines and girls in uniform – yes, girls in their early 20s – who have been and who will continue to be sacrificed for this amoral, son-of-a-great-cross-eyed-bitch’s idiocy and hubris.

God, it hurts to be numbered among responsible and sane Texans who tried to tell people the first time around that he had wrecked Texas and would do the same to the country.

I never dreamed that he would so readily expand his grasp to the known world. God forgive us.

from guest poster Christina Larson at Kevin Drum’s place:

HERE’S A NUMBER FOR YOU … Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, Colin Powell’s former chief of staff, tells me he’s been trading emails with folks around town — generals, colonels, Pentagon officials — who have been looking carefully and analytically for the last two years at what it will cost to reconstitute the military after Iraq. In other words, the bill to bring Army and Navy battalions back to the status they were in before the invasion. That includes training, equipment, replacing Apache helicopters, humvees, tanks, rifles (we have burned them up in Iraq faster than life cycle projections), etc. The current estimate: $50 to $100 billion. “The next president will face a staggering bill,” Wilkerson says, not even counting the costs of further efforts in Iraq.

drinksforall @ 11

Here is a desperate example of seeing the glass as “half-full”. Is it possible that he keeps repeating this insane drivel in order to buy time for a cleaner, less chaotic withdrawal?? Someone in previous comments to another post said that withdrawals can be messy and dangerous to all involved. I know this theory is shaky at best but maybe the Generals want him speaking as though nothing is changing in the immediate future so they get everyone out w/ fewer casualties…okay back to my bottle and bong ;)

Nicely strategerized! But whose strategery is it? Neither Chimpy nor Dead-Eye would ever have agreed to this.

Never has there been an Emperor more naked than this one. Even the corporate press is beginning to get embarrassed.

Tom Friedman, who I usually don’t agree with, said on the Today Show this morning that the only solution to the present morass in Iraq is a complete military reoccupation to establish order. Things are that messed up. Of course he said reoccupation is not practical. Friedman is a wealthy globetrotting “theorist.”

Ain’t he got a fuckin library to build or something?
Why can’t he let someone else drive for once?

At this point, the only thing I can see to do is pull everyone back into Bahgdad.
Retake control of Bahgdad,stop the genocide in the city, set up some kind of government,
and fucking pull out!!

Balrog @ 16

drinksforall @ 11

Here is a desperate example of seeing the glass as “half-full”. Is it possible that he keeps repeating this insane drivel in order to buy time for a cleaner, less chaotic withdrawal?? Someone in previous comments to another post said that withdrawals can be messy and dangerous to all involved. I know this theory is shaky at best but maybe the Generals want him speaking as though nothing is changing in the immediate future so they get everyone out w/ fewer casualties…okay back to my bottle and bong ;)

Nicely strategerized! But whose strategery is it? Neither Chimpy nor Dead-Eye would ever have agreed to this.

If anyone it would be the generals on the ground, who are FEEEEDD UP w/ this fiasco and are demanding for withdrawal (I know they can’t force the issue but let me dream)

Hell, even Joe Scarborough was quoting John Kerry’s “How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?” quote from Kerry’s testimony in 1971. And Pat Buchanon agreed with him. (Yes, I did almost spew my tea as I was listening to the show. It was as though I were watching some sort of Bizarro Scarborough, wherein he agreed, repeatedly, with Lawrence O’Donnell.)

Scarborough has seen Olbermann’s ratings.

Twisted Martini @ 7

Exactly. When does one of the Stenographers calmly ask “what is the mission?”

Exactly. What is our mission in the middle of a civil war?

sorry – this post in in reference to one going back a ways on the Dowd column re Pelosi. I did not have time to post but thought Christy was spot on about cattiness (until she was catty about Dowd’s haircolor – tsk tsk)

I have noticed that the last two columns I read of Dowd’s(which is two more than I usually read) were actually quite intelligent and thoughtful.
Perhaps more women should let other women know when they have stepped over the line…

cheers – bye

From the LA Times:

Numerous policy options were put forward at the meeting, which revolved around a strategy paper prepared by Hadley and drawn from his recent trip to Baghdad. One was the Shiite option. Participants were asked to consider whether the U.S. could really afford to keep fighting both the Sunni insurgency and Shiite militias — or whether it should instead focus its efforts on combating the Sunni insurgency exclusively, and even help empower the Shiites against the Sunnis.
via Political Animal

They have to do something different. They can’t with all their commissions and study groups and a battering at the polls be seen as doing nothing different. Up until now, I thought what they would do is follow McCain’s path–commit more troops, wait a couple of Friedman’s. Then commission more study groups and do more analysis until after inauguration day 2009. That would be very bad. But Bush clearly will not commence withdrawals.

Now this is something different that I found pretty much unthinkable. It makes absolutely no diplomatic or strategic sense to expand the magnitude of Iran’s victory here by taking the sides of the Shiites. It would be absolutely appalling for the United States to make common cause with militias that are in the process of ethnic cleansing, killing people based solely on their religion. Moreover, even from a realpolitik framework, the resulting government will be no friend of the United States.

That this can even be considered demonstrates that all that’s going on here is to find a way to keep the war going until Bush leaves office, or a government of some reasonable stability is established, regardless of the effect on Iraqi civilians or American troops.

And you know what? When you and all your relatives are threatened with death, you’re not gonna surrender. There would be no point. You’ll be killed either way. Keep in mind that it’s the Sunnis who know where Saddam’s weapon caches are.

Now this is going to be extremely bloody and very destablizing whether the US is there or not. But it violates every principle this country claims to have to participate in genocide. To do it just to save Bush’s face was, as I said, unthinkable until the last couple of days.

Articles that make you go hmm

Tom @ 9:41 am (#2)

WHAT. FUCKING. MISSION????

You read my mind. There is nothing we can accomplish there anymore, even with twice the troops we have now. We can’t mediate, because we won’t talk to the “bad guys”. We can’t train and arm the police, because we’d just be training the militias. The place has been going downhill for most of the last two years, and all we’ve accomplished are a couple of bizarre elections and a constitution that requires its own Ph.D. program to fully grasp its complexities.

Biodun @ 18

Tom Friedman, who I usually don’t agree with, said on the Today Show this morning that the only solution to the present morass in Iraq is a complete military reoccupation to establish order. Things are that messed up. Of course he said reoccupation is not practical. Friedman is a wealthy globetrotting “theorist.”

I am surprised Friedman commented on Iraq. It’s all so last year, so pre-The world is flat and China is the new green. I mean with his busy schedule of promoting and self-promoting how could he be expected to remember what happened so many Friedmans ago in a place like Iraq.

punaise @
6

FUBAR is the province of the Deciderer

SNAFU is the capital of FUBAR

My question is,
What is it we must view to realize we have GOT to get out of there?

And, how do we take the president out of office for incompetance, incapacity? Because he surely is.

Events are already beyond BushCo.’s control. We may well see our army trapped, then slaughtered.

from http://atruepatriot.blogspot.com/

why it matters we call it a civil war as soon as possilble;

We refused to call it an insurgency and therefore didn’t prepare for insurgents.

if we refuse to call it a civil war we will not be addressing the issue the way it needs to be addressed

windje @ 28

punaise @
6

FUBAR is the province of the Deciderer

SNAFU is the capital of FUBAR

And the general order of the day there with regard to unpleasant or inconvenient information is STFU.

Anyone that doesn’t realize that this man is not CAPABLE of changing his mind is in for a rude awakening. He’ll tell James Baker what he wants to hear and then DO EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTS TO DO. Just like any manupulative 10 year old.

Here’s a lovely sentiment from favorite Tom Tancredo:

”Look at what has happened to Miami,” the WorldNetDaily quotes Tancredo as saying in an interview. “It has become a Third World country. You just pick it up and take it and move it someplace. You would never know you’re in the United States of America. You would certainly say you’re in a Third World country.”

But, in a conciliatory gesture, agreed to visit:

Tancredo didn’t visit Miami on the Nov. 18-19 trip, but has visited before, a spokesman said. And, if Ros-Lehtinen’s invitation includes ”a stay at a five-star beachfront resort, he may be willing to look beyond the inherent dangers that he had cited and visit Miami again,” his spokesman said.

Read it here.

For those who’ve seen THE LAST KING OF SCOTLAND…

Check out those eyes on Bush!

Remind you of anyone?

Ot and long, but Deadey might have some serious problems coming…

Dick Cheney Fitted for New Halliburton Uniform – Striped Jumpsuit

By Evelyn Pringle

The US Securities and Exchange Commission is conducting a formal investigation into whether Halliburton made improper payments to government officials in Nigeria in connection with the construction and expansion by TSKJ of a natural gas liquefaction complex and facilities at Bonny Island in Rivers State, Nigeria.

TSKJ is a company registered in Portugal whose members include Technip SA of France, Snamprogetti Netherlands BV, a subsidiary of Saipem SpA of Italy, JGC Corporation of Japan, and Kellogg Brown & Root, a successor to the MW Kellogg Company, each of which has a 25% interest in the venture.

snip

And last but not least, on August 7, 2006, the Financial Times of London reported that KBR, a subsidiary of Halliburton, is being investigated by Britain’s Serious Fraud Office over the company’s role in an alleged plot to pay more than $170 million in bribes to win $7 billion worth of contracts at a Nigerian oil

For part of the period under investigation, the newspaper reported, Halliburton was headed by Vice President Dick Cheney.

snip

The payments were made during Cheney’s tenure, and according to the Boson Globe, “If such payments were made and Cheney approved them, he could be guilty of violating the U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.”

snip

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0611/S00037.htm

Hugh @ 27

Biodun @ 18

Tom Friedman, who I usually don’t agree with, said on the Today Show this morning that the only solution to the present morass in Iraq is a complete military reoccupation to establish order. Things are that messed up. Of course he said reoccupation is not practical. Friedman is a wealthy globetrotting “theorist.”

I am surprised Friedman commented on Iraq. It’s all so last year, so pre-The world is flat and China is the new green. I mean with his busy schedule of promoting and self-promoting how could he be expected to remember what happened so many Friedmans ago in a place like Iraq.

I think with MSM, he’s still seen as a Middle East “expert,” given his stint there as a correspondent and bureau chief and all, and given his Pulitzer for his book about that region.

But you’re right: He’s all global now, with the flat world, and with all the ideas in his book that he recycled from a seminal article on globalization and the fluidity of capital that appeared in the first issue of Zone in 1987.

We know what the war machine thought of the Kennedys before they killed them both.

What the hell do they think of the Bushes?

Bustednuckles 36 — hate to break it to you, but the French had been looking into this for the last 3 years, if memory serves. At one time there was discussion overseas about the EU pressing charges against DeadEye for corruption.

Still waiting for that to happen.

Remember the scene in Apocalypse Now where Martin Sheen’s wandering through a bunker at night looking for the CO and comes upon a soldier who calmly launches a grenade at the sound of a cursing VC and takes him out?

Sheen asks him, “Soldier, do you know who’s in charge here?”

The soldier says, “Yeah” and walks away.

Sheen leaves saying to surfer Lance, “There’s no one in charge here.”

Well, there you go Iraq.

Rayne @ 39

Bustednuckles 36 — hate to break it to you, but the French had been looking into this for the last 3 years, if memory serves. At one time there was discussion overseas about the EU pressing charges against DeadEye for corruption.

Still waiting for that to happen.

Dammit.Had my hopes up ,there for a minute.

It is not possible to have a rational discussion or situational analysis with a psychopath; and I don’t use that word lightly. The question is how can the Congress work around a commander-in-chief who is crazy. The real Constitutional crisis will occur when he wants to bomb Iran.

punaise @ 15

from guest poster Christina Larson at Kevin Drum’s place:

HERE’S A NUMBER FOR YOU … Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, Colin Powell’s former chief of staff, tells me he’s been trading emails with folks around town — generals, colonels, Pentagon officials — who have been looking carefully and analytically for the last two years at what it will cost to reconstitute the military after Iraq. In other words, the bill to bring Army and Navy battalions back to the status they were in before the invasion. That includes training, equipment, replacing Apache helicopters, humvees, tanks, rifles (we have burned them up in Iraq faster than life cycle projections), etc. The current estimate: $50 to $100 billion. “The next president will face a staggering bill,” Wilkerson says, not even counting the costs of further efforts in Iraq.

$50B here and $50B there . . . pretty soon you’re talking about real money.

Recently the guys from “Car Talk” took a call from an active duty GI stationed in Iraq, asking about the improving the maintenance for up-armored humvees. The mechanics are swapping out struts, shocks, and other parts weekly – far sooner than the factory specs – and things are still a mess. Funny how adding all that non-standard weight to a vehicle kills the suspension system and other things, especially when you run the vehicles on non-standard surfaces. Tom and Ray sympathized, but when you add a couple hundred pounds to a vehicle that was NOT DESIGNED FOR IT, that’s what’s needed. The alternative – breaking down in the middle of a battlefield – is hardly attractive, so you do ten times the preventive work so avoid that possibility.

Take that story, and multiply it across the military from top to bottom. That’s what Bush, Rummy, and Co. have done, and it’s going to be a long time before things are put right.

Speaking of Definitionalization Strategerification, I just watched Dana Priest of WaPo defend her publications refusal to use the term Civil War. She suggested to Chris Matthews that Somolia was not a civil war, and Bosnia was not a civil war, thus, Iraq is not a civil war. When Matthews asked what the Post called the war in Lebanon, she uncomfortably reported “Civil War.”

I think we should recommend rejecting any publication that will not use the term Civil War to describe the internal strife in Iraq as being either unreliable or in Bush’s pocket.

It is clear that a media outlet that is unwilliing to use the best descriptor of events is a shill rather than a news orgainization.

Bustednuckles @ 36

Ot and long, but Deadey might have some serious problems coming…

Dick Cheney Fitted for New Halliburton Uniform – Striped Jumpsuit

snip

The payments were made during Cheney’s tenure, and according to the Boson Globe, “If such payments were made and Cheney approved them, he could be guilty of violating the U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.”

I believe a pardon from King of the Britons will resolve this matter.

‘Well I didn’t vote for you!’

CEO 38 — you’re assuming there’s daylight between the Bush family and the war machine, yes?

Christy Hardin Smith,

You write: ‘Innocent people are dying. That is bad.’

Yes, no one can deny that it is bad. But then I must assume that also guilty people are dying. Because a lot of people are dying. Who are these guilty people? U.S. troops in Iraq? Or are they innocent? Who? Iraqis who are fighting to kick out the foreigners, you know, like the foreigners causing shit in D.C.? All the people of Iraq are innocent because they were intentionally invavaded by a foreign country or countries. All those foreigners are guilty. Or am I wrong? Is George Bush guilty then? Tell me. When will this moralizing nonsense END!

Hey Cozumel — you out there?

Did you catch this at No Quarter? Sure looks like somebody will issue a report if they are already chatting away like this.

dead last 44 — did Dana actually give some benchmarks or qualifications to support WaPo’s rationale?

Yes, an intervention is definitely necessary. [CHS ed.: Please, watch the implications of what you say on this sort of thing. We are quite well aware that the Secret Service does, from time to time, monitor the internets. And your snark could be over-construed. Which would be bad for you. Just a friendly reminder that sometimes things are not such a good idea for typing.]

probably way, way more than 3,000 U.S. Military KIA by now in Iraq.

Does anyone beleive that military casualty counts are the one thing that this mendacious administration is telling the truth about?

Quentin at 47 — You have got to be kidding me with that string of questions, aren’t you? Because I don’t even know where to start with such a simplistic viewpoint on things. The “Innocent people are dying. That is bad.” phrasing — that was meant to highlight the idiocy of the black and white moralizing, all the while pointing out the hypocrisy of the “stay the course” rhetoric. Clearly that didn’t hit a nerve properly with you.

High drama and midemeanors, in one part

The Decider: You want answers?
The American People: I think we are entitled.
The Clusterfuck: You want answers?!
The American People: We want the truth!
The Arrogant One: You can’t handle the truth!

Jack

in that photo his mouth almost looks like cheney’s but his eyes, his eyes show just how terrified he is ……..

What the hell is wrong with this president. Is he stupid, terminally nuts, what, WHAT?

Rayne @ 48

Hey Cozumel — you out there?

Did you catch this at No Quarter? Sure looks like somebody will issue a report if they are already chatting away like this.

dead last 44 — did Dana actually give some benchmarks or qualifications to support WaPo’s rationale?

I’ll take a look, thanks!

Boudica @ 54

What the hell is wrong with this president. Is he stupid, terminally nuts, what, WHAT?

Yes.

Bustednuckles — here, did some digging on the DeadEye corruption story. Note the date on the story.

Ugh. This guy is bad to the bone, has been all along.

Seems the WaPo used the term “ethnic war” for the Muslim-Serb-Croat ethnic war.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..Jul25.html

The also used the term civil war.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..Jun30.html
“Many Bosnian Serbs regard Karadjic, their former president, as a nationalist hero who protected their communities during the civil war.”

Rayne 46 – Ultimately Michael had Neri Take out Fredo.

The machine has got to be worried about waging future wars.

Somehow, the children and grandchildren of the Bush family just never serve. So Bush is talking about things for which he has no personal stake. It’s so easy to be a tough guy in a situation like Bush’s.

How is this acceptable to Republicans? Are Republicans really royalists and the Bush Family is their Royal Family?

Rayne @ 48

dead last 44 — did Dana actually give some benchmarks or qualifications to support WaPo’s rationale?

Her only real defense was that the Iraqi PM has refused to call it a civil war (as if he is not a puppet). Here is the link:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..a-on-iraq/

While we’re quibbling about what’s a “civil war,” you put the real issue out in plain sight: “Our soldiers … cannot be seen as taking sides or they lose what little credibility they have left, after our bungled mess of a non-strategy that they have been forced to foist on Iraq – and yet, by not taking sides, the violence is increasing by the hour.”

It’s a civil war. We know of at least two sides, and each of them has identified the other. To imagine that we’re qualified or powerful enough to “referee” this dispute is crazy. We are not a disinterested party. This carnage was not taking place before we took over the country.

As we look toward the exits, we need to take a narrower view of our capabilities. The majority of Iraqis want us to leave. The Iraqis are deciding every day how much worse they will make the death and destruction. I don’t think many of them are consulting us or asking our permission. The only important decision that is still in our hands is how we leave.

Our armed forces find themselves in the middle of a civil war. Neutrality is not ours to define: When you’re the occupying army, failure to defend people under attack is equivalent to support for the attackers. We can defend the weak against the strong or join the strong in attacking the weak. That may not be how we see it, but it is how we will be seen, and our action and inaction–not our intentions–will count most in defining our history and culpability in Iraq and our debt to the survivors.

“We can accept nothing less than victory for our children and our grandchildren

TRANSLATION: Since we’re sticking them with the bill for the clusterfuck, it’s the least we can do for them…

Rayne @ 48

dead last 44 — did Dana actually give some benchmarks or qualifications to support WaPo’s rationale?

No she did not. She was stupid on that show. I was surprised that she said what she said and actually embarrassed for her. From her writing I was expecting something different.

You know what gets me in the photo Christy’s used here? This guy really does look whacked out.

I’m almost afraid what would happen if somebody in the media actually did press him and ask as Tom asks, “What.Fucking.Mission?”

The notion of a U.S. president having a full-blown melt down in front of the media would have enormous repercussions; could be why nobody has pressed this issue, knowing they are flirting with this mess.

Can you imagine a president being declared incompetent? Can you imagine DeadEye delivering that news to the American public?

Gah. As much as I can’t stand his truly moronic blathering, it might be better to choke it out a while longer with Dubya’s clearly ungrounded talk.

1,341 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..

Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:

Thank you for FDL and for the focus this community has brought to my undifferentiated frustration and pain about this terrible horror that has morphed over decades from VietNam to Iraq. When the fast-growing fascist cancer begun in 1994 metastasized in the theft of the 2000 election, I experienced a sick empty feeling of dread and remembrance. Then came 9/11 and I knew where we were headed…the actual invasion of Iraq was anti-climax.

This site and the great progressive bloggosphere patriot army got me involved in politics again and gave me direction for the terrible feelings of anger and horror which the Iraq War rekindled. Those old demons that it took me several decades to put behind me are back…I know how ta deal with ‘em and I will but I don’t have the energy or the will anymore to convince myself that “everything will be alright”. Putting faith in the higher power of people and collective action takes energy I don’t seem ta have anymore. I know that the force of the goodness of the American people and their collective action can will out but I just don’t know if it will.

The number of American deaths in this conflict is proportional to the number we suffered in Viet Nam based on the number of troops we committed in Viet Nam over the total course of that awful conflict. The number of severely disabled and dismembered survivors is actually gunna be LARGER than what we were left with after Viet Nam. And those kids who survive this terrible mess won’t have the GI Bill, Veteran’s Hospitals and Clinics and other survivors benefits we had after Viet Nam.

And of course there are the innocent Iraqi casualties…just the shear number of innocents we have doomed there removes any claim we have had in the past to sharing a future on this planet with a moral population.

So people, please let’s work together to end this American-made tragedy…we must be focused and monomaniacal. Nothing, not the economy, not taxes, not health care, not education, not the urge to compromise and certainly not fear should occupy even a moment of our time politically right now. We must dedicate ourselves to ending this madness and removing any politician who stands in the way.

I won’t be postin’ for awhile but I’ll try and make time to keep up with the conversation. There’s too much ta do and I’m old and male and don’t multitask very well anyway. I want to apologize to anyone I may have offended in my impatience with prolonged discussion over things I considered only secondary to the real problem…but, Firepups, please focus on ending this war and the end goes through the Constitution and impeachment, don’t let ‘em scare you off the subject.

KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET THE BASTARDS UP!!

People! This is your Brain on drugs.

Tom @ 2

WHAT. FUCKING. MISSION????

Exactly — a question the MSM should be asking, no?

Here is a good measure of our success in Iraq.
Remember when we were able to put the faces of our key enemies on a single deck of cards?
There aren’t enough cards in Vegas to do that now.

Random thought on the civil war:

There have been posts here and other evidence that the US has covertly been involved in fomenting Shia/Sunni fighting.

What would be the reason?

Two things came to mind this AM:

1. For Neocons, only one thing is better than killing an Arab: have them kill eachother

2. A corollary to the theory: “we’ll fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them here”: “Let them kill eachother so they don’t gang up on us.”

I’ve always felt that civil war was the acceptable outcome for BushCo.

And can we also talk about how much we have paid in lives, treasure (not to mention opportunity to get out in some kind of order) by using the Baker Commission delaying tactic to dither until after the election instead of actually making a decision?

The modern GOP, always putting party before country.

punaise @ 15

from guest poster Christina Larson at Kevin Drum’s place:

HERE’S A NUMBER FOR YOU … Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, Colin Powell’s former chief of staff, tells me he’s been trading emails with folks around town — generals, colonels, Pentagon officials — who have been looking carefully and analytically for the last two years at what it will cost to reconstitute the military after Iraq. In other words, the bill to bring Army and Navy battalions back to the status they were in before the invasion. That includes training, equipment, replacing Apache helicopters, humvees, tanks, rifles (we have burned them up in Iraq faster than life cycle projections), etc. The current estimate: $50 to $100 billion. “The next president will face a staggering bill,” Wilkerson says, not even counting the costs of further efforts in Iraq.

This may not be a very popular idea, but maybe we don’t need to fully reconstitute the military. Perhaps it’s time to realize that a large standing army is too much of a temptation for many (most?) of our leaders, and it’s high time we actually realized the peace dividend we were supposed to get after St. Ronnie slayed the Russian dragon.

Rayne at 48:

MATTHEWS: Well, Dana, let me go to the question of why the president would be resistant, or stubborn, if you will, on the naming of this war. He told us we‘re fighting over there so we won‘t have to fight here, but certainly the Shia and the Sunni are not going to bring their fight over here. So either it‘s a civil war or it‘s a war of some other kind. It seems to me he‘s—the president‘s afraid that people want it—will begin to think it is a civil war, and not the way he way he wants to define it, which is, we‘ve got to fight them there before they fight us here.

DANA PRIEST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I think one of the reasons the president resists that label is because it equates almost with a failure of U.S. policy. I‘ll say for the “Washington Post” we haven‘t labeled it a civil war. And I‘ve asked around here today to see why not or what‘s the thinking on that. And really, our reporters have not filed that. We try to avoid the labels, particularly when the elected government itself does not call its situation a civil war.

Certainly, and I would agree with General McCaffrey on this absolutely, the level of violence equals a civil war. But like—take Somalia, for instance. We never called that a civil war. It was a very chaotic situation with many militias fighting each other, as opposed to Bosnia, where there were big factions that wanted to seize and control territory. And the government, or the fractured—factions in the different governments called itself a civil war. And that‘s one big difference, at least here in our news room.

MATTHEWS: What did you call Lebanon?

PRIEST: That was a civil war, clearly.

MATTHEWS: OK. Well, when you have Maronite Christians fighting Hezbollah and back and forth…

PRIEST: And no government, right.

MATTHEWS: And now we have a situation…

PRIEST: … and no elected government.

MATTHEWS: … the casualties you‘re reporting every day, Dana, are from a civil war. It‘s not the United States getting shot at, mainly, luckily. It‘s Sunni killing Shia and mostly the other way around.

PRIEST: Well, like I said, I‘m not disputing at all that the violence

does not equal that. In Iraq in particular there‘s been—you reported

the militias have fractured so much that—who is the war against, other

than obviously those factions have often come out against the United States

and the occupation there. But not pro—you know, we want this part of

the country as ours. When that happens it‘ll be—I think we‘ll reassess

when and if that happens, we would reassess the label.

MATTHEWS: Well, let‘s talk about, General, what happens this week.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15935496/

SF Chronicle:

Emotions run high over Iraq memorial
Highly visible hill of crosses lauded, slammed at meeting

Scores of emotionally charged citizens praised and denounced Lafayette’s controversial display of stark white crosses during a City Council meeting Monday that filled every seat in the chamber and lasted more than 2 1/2 hours.
…
The memorial, which features some 400 white crosses and a large sign reading “In Memory of 2,867 U.S. Troops Killed in Iraq,” has adorned a hillside overlooking the Lafayette BART station and Highway 24 since early this month.

The city had given memorial organizers a Nov. 20 deadline to take down the sign or replace it with a smaller one. But the large sign remained. The city issued a citation to the memorial organizers but did not order it removed.

FWIW, Lafayette is in Ellen Tauscher’s district

This man has many issues but not the least of which is the fact that he has fetal alcohol syndrome. The eyes and lips are a dead giveaway. His (lack of) cognition is another.

Thanks Rayne.
Being at work, I kinda pop in and out.

NORSKE!
keep the faith ,brother.

NorskeFlamethrower @ 66

1,341 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..

Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:

Thank you for FDL and for the focus this community has brought to my undifferentiated frustration and pain about this terrible horror that has morphed over decades from VietNam to Iraq. When the fast-growing fascist cancer begun in 1994 metastasized in the theft of the 2000 election, I experienced a sick empty feeling of dread and remembrance. Then came 9/11 and I knew where we were headed…the actual invasion of Iraq was anti-climax.

This site and the great progressive bloggosphere patriot army got me involved in politics again and gave me direction for the terrible feelings of anger and horror which the Iraq War rekindled. Those old demons that it took me several decades to put behind me are back…I know how ta deal with ‘em and I will but I don’t have the energy or the will anymore to convince myself that “everything will be alright”. Putting faith in the higher power of people and collective action takes energy I don’t seem ta have anymore. I know that the force of the goodness of the American people and their collective action can will out but I just don’t know if it will.

The number of American deaths in this conflict is proportional to the number we suffered in Viet Nam based on the number of troops we committed in Viet Nam over the total course of that awful conflict. The number of severely disabled and dismembered survivors is actually gunna be LARGER than what we were left with after Viet Nam. And those kids who survive this terrible mess won’t have the GI Bill, Veteran’s Hospitals and Clinics and other survivors benefits we had after Viet Nam.

And of course there are the innocent Iraqi casualties…just the shear number of innocents we have doomed there removes any claim we have had in the past to sharing a future on this planet with a moral population.

So people, please let’s work together to end this American-made tragedy…we must be focused and monomaniacal. Nothing, not the economy, not taxes, not health care, not education, not the urge to compromise and certainly not fear should occupy even a moment of our time politically right now. We must dedicate ourselves to ending this madness and removing any politician who stands in the way.

I won’t be postin’ for awhile but I’ll try and make time to keep up with the conversation. There’s too much ta do and I’m old and male and don’t multitask very well anyway. I want to apologize to anyone I may have offended in my impatience with prolonged discussion over things I considered only secondary to the real problem…but, Firepups, please focus on ending this war and the end goes through the Constitution and impeachment, don’t let ‘em scare you off the subject.

KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET THE BASTARDS UP!!

Always loved your emotion and passion…

“Everything we do is important. Every little thing we do, every picket line we walk on, every letter we write, every act of civil disobedience we engage in, any recruiter that we talk to, any parent that we talk to, any GI that we talk to, any young person that we talk to, anything we do in class, outside of class, everything we do in the direction of a different world is important, even though at the moment they seem futile, because that’s how change comes about. Change comes about when millions of people do little things, which at certain points in history come together, and then something good and something important happens.” Howard Zinn

Will miss you, Jack

CEO 59 –

Baker = Neri. Done deal.

dead last — Good gravy. I can’t contemplate becoming a professional journalist like Dana Priest if this is the kind of work one would have to do to get paid.

Ce n’est pas une guerre civile.

Makes me want to cross-stitch some pillows with this on it. I do wonder how to say this in Farsi and Arabic.

dead last,

People have been citing Lakoff a lot recently and his: Don’t think about white elephants argument. So what are you thinking about right now? The more Bush and the media reject using the description of civil war and defend not calling a civil war a civil war the more all of us are going to hear civil war civil war civil war civil war.

old gold @ 69

Here is a good measure of our success in Iraq.
Remember when we were able to put the faces of our key enemies on a single deck of cards?
There aren’t enough cards in Vegas to do that now.

oh my gawd!

excellant!!!!

kemo @ 70

Random thought on the civil war:

There have been posts here and other evidence that the US has covertly been involved in fomenting Shia/Sunni fighting.

What would be the reason?

Two things came to mind this AM:

1. For Neocons, only one thing is better than killing an Arab: have them kill eachother

2. A corollary to the theory: “we’ll fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them here”: “Let them kill eachother so they don’t gang up on us.”

I’ve always felt that civil war was the acceptable outcome for BushCo.

if that were the case we’d have already pulled out, with orders from fuckwad.

oh well, nevermind

I wonder how daddy feels about this. He sends in his fixers to pull juniors ass out of the fire, and this is the thanks he gets? What a naughty little boy.

We can accept nothing less than victory for our children and our grandchildren.

And here we thought that GWB wouldn’t agree to a timetable . . .

fahrender @81: if that were the case we’d have already pulled out, with orders from fuckwad.

Sure, but there are still bases to be built and oil deals to set-up, and civil war provides a great diversion for the locals. Of course the media can’t call it a “civil war”, because then the folks in the US would demand a pull out, and scrutinize any of the “under-reported” reasons… Asking questions like “yeah, but is it worth more GI lives?”

BushCo don’t want that, no sir.

From now on, the White House will be known as “Grey Gardens.”

Biodun 73 — Agh, it was that bad? Cripes, it reads like she was babbling there at the end.

Thanks for that transcript, though, almost hard to believe without reading it.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JOHN ARAVOSIS!

PINK PANTHERS BLOG
HONORS A TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOT
AND HERO TO THE LGBT COMMUNITY

The problem we all make is to look at Bush as anything other than a frat boy on spring break. That’s all he is, just like his kids. He doesn’t give a F**K what anyone thinks.

“We can accept nothing less than victory for our children and our grandchildren.”

Watchoo mean WE Kemosabe?

We already have. Maybe no one put it into his one page synopsis with 15 pt. type; but the “war” has already been lost and was well before he strapped into his codpiece of accomplishment suit three years ago. I was listening to Stephanie Miller this morning, she had a litany of James Baker quotes circa 1996 making an apologetic case about how idiotic it would have been to take Desert Storm on to Baghdad. No one told Cheney.

ReneND @ 9

Could somebody PLEASE photoshop this guys eyeballs a normal distance apart?? Thanks.

Hitler did the same thing in the decaying days of the Reich. He always went back to his core support among the Gauleiters and the ‘Old Fighters’.

Excuse me. something went wrong with the post. I was commenting on the point about Bush playing now only to his base.

Thanks biodun for that quote:

We try to avoid the labels, particularly when the elected government itself does not call its situation a civil war.

I really hate to bring in the Hitler thing but by this reasoning if Hitler had called concentration camps vacation retreats Dana Priest would be OK with that. This is yet another example of “professionals” refusing to act with any degree of professionalism. Priest can’t call it a civil war because, gosh darn, that mean, mean Mr. Maliki won’t let her. This is the kind of thinking that gives me a headache. Is it really so much to ask that the Dana Priests of this world just do their job instead of spending all their time and energy defending why they aren’t?

Tomgram: Elizabeth de la Vega, Bringing Bush to Court

Keep in mind, I’ve run Tomdispatch.com for only a few years, but I’ve been a book editor in mainstream publishing for over 30 years. Sometime last spring, I was on the phone with former federal prosecutor Elizabeth de la Vega talking about books she might someday write, when she suddenly said to me, “You know what I’d like to do?” When I asked what, she replied, “What I’ve done all my life.”

“What’s that,” I wondered innocently enough.

“I’d like to draft an indictment of President Bush and his senior aides, and present the case for prewar intelligence fraud to a grand jury, just as if it were an actual case of mine, using the evidence we already have in the public record. That’s the book I’d like to do.”

http://www.tomdispatch.com/

Watchoo mean WE Kemosabe?

Wasn’t me, Tonto.

While we shop and prepare for the holidays, they keep dying in Iraq. Shop here till they drop there. These will all be Americans and Iraqis who died while the politicians took their own good sweet time deciding what to do and how to avoid blame for it. Happy holidays.

“The mission has been accomplished…. And it will continue to be accomplished so long as I’m commander in chief. So help me god. Amen.” G.W.B.

Troops in Iraq are in a position alalagous to parents in the front seat- driving in the dark- responding to “Daddy- he HIT me”. “No he hit me first!!”

Ya feel like ya gotta do somethin to stop the hitting- but ya have NO fuckin IDEA who started it or how.

If ya see someone shootin- shoot em- but be aware that he may just be defending himself…

(When this happened in real life I was prone to reachin back and slappin sort of randomly- it usually worked- but I wouldn’t recommend it in this case)

the presidency in our land is such a powerful institution that if it is occupied by a fool, he can wreak havoc on the whole earth. We should find some minimum standards of intelligence that needs to be met before we hand anybody the keys to this country. There will be hell to pay for all the accidents he got us into.

For the Andrew Sullivan crew out there who was saying that this wasn’t an election, it was an intervention…well, the intervention didn’t work. Now what?

via TPM:

CQ: Hastings to Drop Bid for Intel Chair
By Justin Rood – November 28, 2006, 1:58 PM

Congressional Quarterly’s Tim Starks has the scoop:

House Speaker-elect Nancy Pelosi was to meet with Rep. Alcee L. Hastings late Tuesday to close the door on his bid to become chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, a congressional aide said.

But Pelosi, D-Calif., has not yet decided who will get the job, according to the aide. . . .

Pelosi met with Harman two weeks ago to discuss the House Intelligence Committee chair job. There is little to suggest Pelosi will reverse her intention to replace Harman atop the panel.

(Christy): George Bush should swallow his pride…

Blasphemy! That’s what the whole war has been about: for Bush to come out looking good. He knows full well that if he admits it’s a FUBAR mess, he’s cooked. His only remaining strategy is to leave some controversy in his wake: hang in there, force the Democrats (or the next president) to get us out of Iraq, then blame them for unaccomplishing his mission for him. Some 30% of the country may even believe him.

Then, thirty or forty years down the line, some other (expletive deleted) will maneuver us into another war in order to prove that the “Iraq syndrome” is finally behind us.

GO Rush Holt!

c’mon Nancy.

kemo @ 95

Watchoo mean WE Kemosabe?

Wasn’t me, Tonto.

No doubt. Wasn’t me either, or anyone sane. It might have been Bill Kristol, at one point but that Rat Bastard is in mid pike off the sinking ship as we speak.

Impeachment Time! I’se de fo’man at Tara and I say when it’s Impeachment Time. Impeachment Time!

rwcole — I check the rearview mirror, I check the side mirrors, I look to any oncoming traffic…if it’s safe, I ease the car to the side of the road and then I PUT ON THE BRAKES.

If Mom has to stop the car, everybody in the back seat knows they are toast and can kiss all privileges goodbye.

I think the remaining generals who aren’t Yes-men need to put on the brakes in the safest, most effective fashion, and stop this crazy car right now.

Fool Zero @ 102

(Christy): George Bush should swallow his pride…

Blasphemy! That’s what the whole war has been about: for Bush to come out looking good. He knows full well that if he admits it’s a FUBAR mess, he’s cooked. His only remaining strategy is to leave some controversy in his wake: hang in there, force the Democrats (or the next president) to get us out of Iraq, then blame them for unaccomplishing his mission for him. Some 30% of the country may even believe him.

Then, thirty or forty years down the line, some other (expletive deleted) will maneuver us into another war in order to prove that the “Iraq syndrome” is finally behind us.

He should swallow something. Rat poison would be nice.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 107

He should swallow something. …

“don’t forget Polonium!”

(errr, rhetorically speaking, of course…)

punaise @ 108

Oklahoma kiddo @ 107

He should swallow something. …

“don’t forget Polonium!”

I know where he can get it.

johnswifty at 90– wrt Cheney…

AMY GOODMAN: What is Dick Cheney doing in Saudi Arabia?

NIR ROSEN: Well, some of it has to do with the Palestinians I believe. He’s hoping that the Saudis can do something. I think this is just desperation. I imagine that he’s hoping Saudis can wield some power, both with the Sunnis of Iraq and with the Palestinians. I don’t really have any idea. I think the Saudis are probably a bit disappointed with the Dick Cheney they know now, compared to the Dick Cheney they knew in the Gulf War, who was a very different man.

AMY GOODMAN: In what sense?

NIR ROSEN: Well, back then, he seemed much more of a pragmatist. Not influenced by this neo-con ideology that dominates the White House today. He was against for example removing Saddam in 1991, he thought it was a bad move, and then he changed his mind. So, I’m not sure what he’s doing in Saudi Arabia, but I don’t think it matters very, I don’t think American can do much good in the region and they can probably continue to do a little more harm.

http://www.democracynow.org/ar…..27/1447216

Fool Zero @ 102

Then, thirty or forty years down the line, some other (expletive deleted) will maneuver us into another war in order to prove that the “Iraq syndrome” is finally behind us.

And that’s the crux, isn’t it. It is the doom of man that he forgets. Well bring on the ladies; bring on the mothers who morn for lost and maimed children; bring on the nurturers who owe allegiance to preserving what is good in our society so that we can move forward with grand designs. Get rid of these old back room military industrial players the Eisenhower warned us about. As long as they have a reason to manufacture weaponry, their pusillanimous meat puppets in congress will find wars to wage.

Newt sayin that if americans continue ta have free speech- terrorists will “take out” a city…

Nice platform ta run on Newtie!!

punaise@101..Jane Harman is the Joe Lieberman of the House. I didn’t understand that she was an AIPAC shill until I read this article.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15419753/site/newsweek/
I bet Pelosi is getting hammered by AIPAC and the big donors.

Um, I think we need to be a bit more discreet, FirePups. Love ya, but remember that blogs have been monitored.

I also know of an example where somebody said something out loud in a public venue not unlike what has been said, and a black SUV with RayBan’d suited men picked up that person within a couple hours for questioning. We’re still not out of the woods on free speech yet.

With all this political action,where is the titular head of my party (Dems)? Perhaps the Senator is just basking.

Hugh @ 93

Thanks biodun for that quote:

We try to avoid the labels, particularly when the elected government itself does not call its situation a civil war.

I really hate to bring in the Hitler thing but by this reasoning if Hitler had called concentration camps vacation retreats Dana Priest would be OK with that. This is yet another example of “professionals” refusing to act with any degree of professionalism. Priest can’t call it a civil war because, gosh darn, that mean, mean Mr. Maliki won’t let her. This is the kind of thinking that gives me a headache. Is it really so much to ask that the Dana Priests of this world just do their job instead of spending all their time and energy defending why they aren’t?

I’m positive most FDLers know this, but it’s always productive to reiterate: US MSM (as distinct from print media) is mostly a newsfeed for the US government. A telltale is when correspondents and anchors use “we” and “us” when referring to the US government and the Bush Administration in reporting foreign news. MSM always conflates “Americans” with the government and the administration.

MSM (especially network and cable) is also rife with bad spelling and grammar and simple mistakes. One example: A CNN caption once identified Pelosi as third in line to presidential succession. (Pelosi is second, after the VP.) MSM also constantly misspells simple words and names in captions and crawlers. Compared with, say BBC, (US cable and network) MSM is embarrassing.

cowboyneok @ 88

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JOHN ARAVOSIS!

PINK PANTHERS BLOG
HONORS A TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOT
AND HERO TO THE LGBT COMMUNITY

is john still for bombing iran?

When will the American people say “enough”? Do we have patience to wait for the slow wheels of Congress?

Surely our leaders are getting tired of word games.

The last thing we want is a dead Clusterfuck- make a martyr out of the idiot? Have Cheney in charge? Put a successor in the VP chair..UH uh.

angie @ 110

johnswifty at 90– wrt Cheney…

Dick Cheney they know now, compared to the Dick Cheney they knew in the Gulf War, who was a very different man.

http://www.democracynow.org/ar…..27/1447216

Thanks for the article angie. I don’t know that Cheney was ever a ‘good’ guy; but, if there was a day when he wasn’t an abjectly evil one, it is a very long ways away.

Rayne @ 113

Um, I think we need to be a bit more discreet, FirePups. Love ya, but remember that blogs have been monitored.

that’s why I amended my commented to add “rhetorically speaking, of course”. to be clear: respect the office of the presidency; the current tenant warrants scorn but not physical threats.

Every day I get up and I say to myself, “today is the day when I will finally be able to sum up, to my final satisfaction, the essence of the horror, the immorality, the illegality of what we all are witness to and, yes, responsible for”.

And then I read what the Idiot-in-Chief says and words fail me.

Again.

There is no good in Cheney, then or now.

And he said fairly recently that he never knew Ambassador Wilson.

Liar.

(wow — it was in 2003!)

VICE PRES. CHENEY: No. I don’t know Joe Wilson. I’ve never met Joe Wilson. A question had arisen. I’d heard a report that the Iraqis had been trying to acquire uranium in Africa, Niger in particular. I get a daily brief on my own each day before I meet with the president to go through the intel. And I ask lots of question. One of the questions I asked at that particular time about this, I said, “What do we know about this?” They take the question. He came back within a day or two and said, “This is all we know. There’s a lot we don’t know,” end of statement. And Joe Wilson—I don’t who sent Joe Wilson. He never submitted a report that I ever saw when he came back.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080244/

Froomkin today:

There are no signs that the rhetoric is changing. Bush today said in a speech it Latvia: “There’s one thing I’m not going to do, I’m not going to pull our troops off the battlefield before the mission is complete. . . . We can accept nothing less than victory for our children and our grandchildren.”

So what will Bush announce in the coming weeks? Who knows? But whatever the decision is, it’s critical that the president look decider-y.

Everyone is whistling Dixie who believes Junior won’t use the Iraq Study Group to thumb his nose at Daddy. He’ll do it HIS way no matter the cost to others. The man is insane. The whole thing will be settled when the insurgents throw the occupiers out. I hope it’s true our military can prevent our troops from a bloodbath when we are forced out.

Newt is on to something, I think, when he says we should curb free speech. As Bush has said, the terrorists hate us for our freedom. So if we get rid of our freedoms, they won’t hate us anymore, right? In the words of the late great Ross Perot, “Problem solved!”

Discreet? Where’s Sharkbabe?

So Clusterfuck says he’s stayin the course eh?

Of course we all know that Clusterfuck doesn’t use language in the normal way- as a way of communicating intentions or describing facts as he believes them to be- he uses it as a political tool..

So havin Clusterfuck say “I’m stayin the course” is perfectly consistent with his planning to pack up and leave…Don’t take anything he SAYS seriously–God knows HE doesn’t!

Clusterfuck does two things daily

1) Takes his shit in the private presidential portable throne

2) Stands up an says some shit..

He doesn’t distinguish between the two activities- and neither should we!!!

Is Bush intentionally trying to drive me insane with this continuing idiocy?

punaise 120 — thank you for your timely catch.

I’d be less freaked if I didn’t know about the local with the run-in with the dark SUV.

Or the DKos diarist getting a visit.

Sheesh. I will be sooooo glad for sane adults to regain control of this country.

angie @ 122

There is no good in Cheney, then or now.

I know! Isn’t it just amazing? Rummy used to have me absolutely flabbergasted on a regular basis. Do these relics not understand the concept of recorded media?

The old fool said during the 2004 debates that he’d never met John Edwards. There was ample evidence to the contrary; why even bother to lie. It’s like they just need to stay in practice.

If only you could count on it–if they lied exclusively then you could play the old logic ruse, “Dick, if I were to ask you if you are an agent of Satan, would you say yes?”

MayDaze @ 123

Froomkin today:

There are no signs that the rhetoric is changing. Bush today said in a speech it Latvia: “There’s one thing I’m not going to do, I’m not going to pull our troops off the battlefield before the mission is complete. . . . We can accept nothing less than victory for our children and our grandchildren.”

So what will Bush announce in the coming weeks? Who knows? But whatever the decision is, it’s critical that the president look decider-y.

“Our grandchildren”? Maybe Bush is announcing that one of the twins is pregnant.

“before the mission is complete”

that is all that we need to repeat

the mission was completed when saddam was deoposed

period

that was the mission, it was completed, and then he made up more missions that had nothing to do with the mission he brought us into war

so it must be put infront of his face;

“the mission is completed, why are you making new missions?”

shorter cheney;

I’m the king, I don’t do anything I don’t want to do

kemo @
85

fahrender @81: if that were the case we’d have already pulled out, with orders from fuckwad.

Sure, but there are still bases to be built and oil deals to set-up, and civil war provides a great diversion for the locals. Of course the media can’t call it a “civil war”, because then the folks in the US would demand a pull out, and scrutinize any of the “under-reported” reasons… Asking questions like “yeah, but is it worth more GI lives?”

BushCo don’t want that, no sir.

i can’t agree with you on the rationale. oil deals don’t get made with a civil war going on. especially one that fuckwad’s minions don’t have a prayer of bringing to a halt. if they’d wanted a civil war they would already be backing one of the sides.
our soldiers are stuck over there and fuckwad is going to let a lot more of them get killed. he’s a brainless, impotent prat and there’s nobody that can lead him out of this mess.

new Blue America update thread – John Hall (NY-19) profile

He doesn’t want to call it a civil war because that would define his “legacy”, once the term becomes a common reference to the conflict (and it is now quickly becoming such) it buries the fallacy that we “liberated” Iraq. So he is basically hoping to keep his fingers in his ears for two more years and foist the mess on whoever takes over. Then they will gladly call it a civil war. Good luck with that Chimpy…

And I thought Oedipus Rex was a tragedy.

Shrub’s unresolved Daddy issues guarantee Stalingrad on the Euphrates.

I wonder what the Joint Chiefs are saying today?

What are their options? Mass resignation? A coup?

The Chiefs can brief W ad infinitum – Shrub’s Oepidal death-match with Daddy won’t let him hear them.

If some secret Pentagon program figured out spiritualism and seances, they better get to work.

The Chiefs’ most potent weapon for force protection appears to be Sigmund Freud.

johnSwifty @
119

angie @ 110

johnswifty at 90– wrt Cheney…

Dick Cheney they know now, compared to the Dick Cheney they knew in the Gulf War, who was a very different man.

http://www.democracynow.org/ar…..27/1447216

Thanks for the article angie. I don’t know that Cheney was ever a ‘good’ guy; but, if there was a day when he wasn’t an abjectly evil one, it is a very long ways away.

a dick is a dick is a dick. and he always has been ……

fahrender @ 135

i can’t agree with you on the rationale. oil deals don’t get made with a civil war going on. especially one that fuckwad’s minions don’t have a prayer of bringing to a halt. if they’d wanted a civil war they would already be backing one of the sides.
our soldiers are stuck over there and fuckwad is going to let a lot more of them get killed. he’s a brainless, impotent prat and there’s nobody that can lead him out of this mess.

Remember Goldfinger? Remember how the idea wasn’t so much to rob Fort Knox but rather to make that gold unusable, thereby increasing the value of Goldfinger’s gold by Keynesian economics. What if Cheney had cooked a deal with the House of Saud to keep that oil in the ground? Someone was posting links to that effect on Trex’s post last night.

It has a certain ring of possibility; but, I’m a sucker for a tin hat theory anyway. If I believed in supernatural forces; I buy into a story where Cheney actually died during one of his heart attacks and had his soul replaced by a demon from the abyss!

For those of us who feared that the Bush adminsitration was determined to fuck us all back when they snuck into the Whitehouse in 2000.

Emission accomplished.

-GSD

You know, in a sense, Bush is even worse than Nixon. At least Nixon was smart, in his own twisted way. Bush is most dangerous and stupid president in modern American history. He’s inarticulate, arrogant, spoiled, uncouth, disgusting, stubborn, a liar, a cheat, and a hypocrite.

Nixon was actually very progressive when it came to many domestic issues.

Via Froomkin re the civil war:

“‘The media has, by and large, been very fearful of being perceived of being liberally biased,’ Hollihan [a professor at USC’s Annenberg School for Communication ] said. ‘Now that the election has occurred, there may be more license on the part of the media to say what the public has been feeling.’”

Another case, I guess, of facts having a liberal bias.

Bush is worse than Nixon in almost every way.

I saw a bumper sticker yesterday.

“I miss Nixon”

-GSD

fahrender @ 135

kemo @
85

fahrender @81: if that were the case we’d have already pulled out, with orders from fuckwad.

Sure, but there are still bases to be built and oil deals to set-up, and civil war provides a great diversion for the locals. Of course the media can’t call it a “civil war”, because then the folks in the US would demand a pull out, and scrutinize any of the “under-reported” reasons… Asking questions like “yeah, but is it worth more GI lives?”

BushCo don’t want that, no sir.

i can’t agree with you on the rationale. oil deals don’t get made with a civil war going on. especially one that fuckwad’s minions don’t have a prayer of bringing to a halt. if they’d wanted a civil war they would already be backing one of the sides.
our soldiers are stuck over there and fuckwad is going to let a lot more of them get killed. he’s a brainless, impotent prat and there’s nobody that can lead him out of this mess.

well, it won’t be a conventional “oil deal” by any means, but Houston will make out big, and the base construction is key to our continuing presence. (One base is directly on the path of a proposed pipeline, as I recall.)

I just refuse to believe that the administration cares one spit about the civil war. If they did, they would call it one to bring more attention to it.

johnSwifty @ 140

fahrender @ 135

i can’t agree with you on the rationale. oil deals don’t get made with a civil war going on. especially one that fuckwad’s minions don’t have a prayer of bringing to a halt. if they’d wanted a civil war they would already be backing one of the sides.
our soldiers are stuck over there and fuckwad is going to let a lot more of them get killed. he’s a brainless, impotent prat and there’s nobody that can lead him out of this mess.

Remember Goldfinger? Remember how the idea wasn’t so much to rob Fort Knox but rather to make that gold unusable, thereby increasing the value of Goldfinger’s gold by Keynesian economics. What if Cheney had cooked a deal with the House of Saud to keep that oil in the ground? Someone was posting links to that effect on Trex’s post last night.

It has a certain ring of possibility; but, I’m a sucker for a tin hat theory anyway. If I believed in supernatural forces; I buy into a story where Cheney actually died during one of his heart attacks and had his soul replaced by a demon from the abyss!

no, cheney is letting cheney be cheney. he don’t need no demon from the abyss. that’s like saying “the devil made him do it.” was it hannah ehrend or some other writer about the holocaust who came up with the phrase “the banality of evil”? dick cheney is just an ordinary guy who has managed to do extraordinary evil. he’s boring and banal and, evil.

The Limpbag spews his hatespeak and verbal vomit again: (the entire transcript is worse)

Limbaugh on Middle East: “Fine, just blow the place up”

On the November 27 edition of his nationally syndicated radio show, in response to claims made by King Abdullah II of Jordan on the November 26 edition of ABC’s This Week that “we could possibly imagine going into 2007 and having three civil wars on our hands,” Rush Limbaugh said: “[W]ell, let’s just have them. Let’s just have the civil wars … because I’m just fed up with this.” Limbaugh then asserted: “Fine, just blow the place up. Just let these natural forces take place over there instead of trying to stop them.” Additionally, Limbaugh claimed: “[E]verbody comes to us. … So we go and try to fix it and our own people, Democrats and the left in our country do their best to sabotage our efforts, and then we get blamed for trying to clean up the messes that these people start.”

http://mediamatters.org/items/…..ogspot.com

Biodun @ 142

You know, in a sense, Bush is even worse than Nixon. At least Nixon was smart, in his own twisted way. Bush is most dangerous and stupid president in modern American history. He’s inarticulate, arrogant, spoiled, uncouth, disgusting, stubborn, a liar, a cheat, and a hypocrite.

yep. hunter s. thompson said as much about four years ago.

kirk murphy @ 138

The Chiefs can brief W ad infinitum – Shrub’s Oepidal death-match with Daddy won’t let him hear them.

At least Sophocles would have had HW die in the first act. I never thought I’d feel any sympathy for that wimp; but I think he’s more aware than even most of us as to just how badly Junior has cocked it up.

Now, the prospect of Junior on Babs…..aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Let’s move onto a Freudian exploration of the pleasure principle and leave Oedipus Rex behind.

fahrender — [-sniff-] God, I miss HST.

Second time today I thought about the man.

johnSwifty @ 150

Let’s move onto a Freudian exploration of the pleasure principle and leave Oedipus Rex behind.

Besides, Oedipus had no idea he was boinking his mother.

Rush. There are actually well educated, professional people, like one of my cousins who really, really love this guy. Perhaps my cousin is defective.

angie @ 148

The Limpbag spews his hatespeak and verbal vomit again: (the entire transcript is worse)

Limbaugh on Middle East: “Fine, just blow the place up”

On the November 27 edition of his nationally syndicated radio show, in response to claims made by King Abdullah II of Jordan on the November 26 edition of ABC’s This Week that “we could possibly imagine going into 2007 and having three civil wars on our hands,” Rush Limbaugh said: “[W]ell, let’s just have them. Let’s just have the civil wars … because I’m just fed up with this.” Limbaugh then asserted: “Fine, just blow the place up. Just let these natural forces take place over there instead of trying to stop them.” Additionally, Limbaugh claimed: “[E]verbody comes to us. … So we go and try to fix it and our own people, Democrats and the left in our country do their best to sabotage our efforts, and then we get blamed for trying to clean up the messes that these people start.”

http://mediamatters.org/items/…..ogspot.com

this is what fuckwad listens to every night while he’s lying awake, hoping to get some sleep. rush is crazier ‘n a shithouse rat. oxycontin payback …..

Additionally, Limbaugh claimed: “[E]verbody comes to us. … So we go and try to fix it and our own people, Democrats and the left in our country do their best to sabotage our efforts, and then we get blamed for trying to clean up the messes that these people start.”

Fuck you, you pill-popping pork pie. Just fuck you.

Rayne @ 151

fahrender — [-sniff-] God, I miss HST.

Second time today I thought about the man.

he had mucho warts but, on a good day, he could really spell it out for us.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 153

Rush. There are actually well educated, professional people, like one of my cousins who really, really love this guy. Perhaps my cousin is defective.

you can be a well educated professional and still have your head up your ass ……

time to go nitey nite, folks. it’s been real ……

Thompson was… well just about beyond description. Johnny Depp loved this man. And so do I. In fact, I love Depp too.

EvilDrPuma @ 155

Additionally, Limbaugh claimed: “[E]verbody comes to us. … So we go and try to fix it and our own people, Democrats and the left in our country do their best to sabotage our efforts, and then we get blamed for trying to clean up the messes that these people start.”

Fuck you, you pill-popping pork pie. Just fuck you.

Of course Oxycontin Boy said of Bosnia: The liberals just want to go around the world fixing things, it’s not out job!

johnSwifty @ 150

kirk murphy @ 138

The Chiefs can brief W ad infinitum – Shrub’s Oepidal death-match with Daddy won’t let him hear them.

At least Sophocles would have had HW die in the first act. I never thought I’d feel any sympathy for that wimp; but I think he’s more aware than even most of us as to just how badly Junior has cocked it up.

Now, the prospect of Junior on Babs…..aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Let’s move onto a Freudian exploration of the pleasure principle and leave Oedipus Rex behind.

Sometimes I forget Oedipal “mechanics”.

Babs.and.W.

Temporary suppression of the visual cortex may be healthy here.

Blergh.

No wonder I’m not hungry for lunch.

Hastings not getting the job via cnn.

good.

Now go tell Harman the same and give us Rush Holt.

fahrender — we all of us have warts. HST was every man, with fewer inhibitions.

In a bizarre way, HST and Dubya are doppelgangers, with a twist. They both availed themselves of chemicals, but one of them grew in his natural abilities for it, the other suffered for it. Unfortunately, the better one bailed out on us.

I hope that is the case Angie.

-GSD

New thread, gang. :)

You know GSD– in my dreamworld, I would like very much that no Dem who voted for war get a chairmanship.

Not one.

“not pulling out troops until the mission is complete”

- I can’t imagine that plays too well with troops or their families.

Excellent post Christy, following two other fine posts today. What a roller coaster — and all downhill.

This may be an opportunity to revisit the first post about impeachment. I have a problem with where we left that, because I think events (and equally important, public and press perceptions) are moving so fast that they have overtaken even the conventional-blogger wisdom (sorry about that equation) about the politics of impeachment.

It’s not just Iraq that is in catastrophic mess. It’s also the US Government under the Bush/Cheney regime. The country is in danger. The math is staring the trad media in the face:

1 Everyone realizes Iraq and US ME policy are a tragic, reckless mistake — everyone that is, except Bush/Cheney and their neocon backers. We have a steadily and rapidly worsening catastrophe that is creating dangerous conditions for everyone in the region and for US security interests for decades. Everyone else realizes that a dramatic change is necessary and that without this change, irreparable harm will be done to US interests, not just to Iraq (which is bad enough).

2 The Bush/Cheney regime is refusing to budge on any essential element of its policies and continues to deny and lie about reality. Everyone now knows this. The trad media is now saying this indirectly and directly, but they will soon also be saying it explicitly and often. The almost uniform response of the trad media corporations to the need to call Iraq a “civil war” is a clear sign that the trad press are now ready for the next step.

3 Given 1 and 2, therefore, the only way to change policy is to change the regime. That is what the country is facing, and even the trad med will begin to hint at this, to ask “experts” about it, not by saying it directly but perhaps by asking the Demos whether they intend to pursue impeachment. Since the Dems are content to say “no, we’re just going to do oversight/investigations, as a responsible Congress should” that means that the country must think through how to remove the current regime from office, given the fact the Dems are refusing to put their fingerprints on the regime’s neck. This is where we are, IMO.

So the larger problem is not simply what to do about Iraq — apparently, nobody knows beyond the choices of stay there vs get out. The larger problem is what to do about the fact that Bush and Cheney are still in power and are continuing to inflict irreparable harm on the country and on every foreign country in which we are militarily or strategically engaged, from Iraq to Afghanistan to Lebanon (via Israel)to Israel to the growing Iraqi refugee crises in Jordan, Syria and Iran.

It is easy to say that Iraq has now become Iraq’s problem, but even if that is true, the removal of Bush/Cheney is now an exclusively American problem. And we should all be focused on how that comes about. And because events are moving so quickly, and circumstances deteriorating so quickly, I don’t think that wating for the normal terms to end is acceptable any more.

In my view, there is no meaningful distinction between going directly to impeachment investigations/hearing and going indirectly to oversight investigations with the expectation that we will “uncover” new evidence that the public will conclude warrants impeachment proceedings. In fact, I think the latter scenario, which assumes there is something else out there that will finally make the public turn against this regime, makes little sense.

The only thing that matters is whether the public and the trad press come to the conclusion that this regime needs to be replaced, and soon. But we don’t need investigations/oversight hearings to get there; all we have to do is watch CNN. Everything the public needs to know about the necessity of removing this lawless, internationally dangerous regime is revealed every night on our tv screens.

I could be completely wrong, but I think we are now at the stage when serious people need to be managing how this will all be staged. And it may occur in ways that never trigger formal impeachment proceedings.

Hugh @ 79

dead last,

People have been citing Lakoff a lot recently and his: Don’t think about white elephants argument. So what are you thinking about right now? The more Bush and the media reject using the description of civil war and defend not calling a civil war a civil war the more all of us are going to hear civil war civil war civil war civil war.

My proposal is to push the argument back on the press to defend their statements. I think if everyone calls it a civil war, then that is what it is and Bush can talk till he is blue in the face say it isn’t, and he and the BushCo media fellow travelers will be further marginalized. And that is the first step toward the real goal: marginalize Bush so we can return the ship of State back to the people. And then try to live up to the ideology of the Founding Mothers and Fathers.

Hey Christy — didn’t to mess up a lovely Blue America post with trash-talking about Dubya. Figured I’d hang out here in the basement to vent. ;-)

scarecrow – I do hope you are correct.
Indeed hearings or public disclosure of the facts in congress will demand action. It is clear that Cheney and Jr will have to step down for any possible chance of real change. How on earth would your described scenario be possible without impeachment hearings? Without certain impeachment at hand both Cheney or Bush won’t resign. (especially Cheney)

Tell me more :-}

As Hugh said in the comments yesterday, to pretend that the militias, the factions, the insurgents, the Iraqi government and the sectarian and civil violence are not intertwined and one and the same is to ignore the reality that is Iraq at the moment.

The Repugs have to look good to their base, the Christianist Right, for whom reality is not a factor. Face it, they firmly believe in the Great Surveillance Camera in the Sky and all the stories in the bible, so why should you expect them to be influenced by reality?

scarecrow @ 169

Excellent post Christy, following two other fine posts today. What a roller coaster — and all downhill.
I AM NOT ADEPT AT POSTING TO QUOTE AN ITEM HERE, OR ANYWHERE. HERE IS MY TRY AT IT: BUT IMAGINE IF PELOSI ON HER WINNING THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE POSITION HAD POINTED OUT THAT SHE WAS THE NEXT IN LINE FOR THE PRESIDENCY, AND WANTED TO IMPEACH HIM. SHE IS A BRILLIANT WOMAN, IMPATIENT TO LEAD.
This may be an opportunity to revisit the first post about impeachment. I have a problem with where we left that, because I think events (and equally important, public and press perceptions) are moving so fast that they have overtaken even the conventional-blogger wisdom (sorry about that equation) about the politics of impeachment.

It’s not just Iraq that is in catastrophic mess. It’s also the US Government under the Bush/Cheney regime. The country is in danger. The math is staring the trad media in the face:

1 Everyone realizes Iraq and US ME policy are a tragic, reckless mistake — everyone that is, except Bush/Cheney and their neocon backers. We have a steadily and rapidly worsening catastrophe that is creating dangerous conditions for everyone in the region and for US security interests for decades. Everyone else realizes that a dramatic change is necessary and that without this change, irreparable harm will be done to US interests, not just to Iraq (which is bad enough).

2 The Bush/Cheney regime is refusing to budge on any essential element of its policies and continues to deny and lie about reality. Everyone now knows this. The trad media is now saying this indirectly and directly, but they will soon also be saying it explicitly and often. The almost uniform response of the trad media corporations to the need to call Iraq a “civil war” is a clear sign that the trad press are now ready for the next step.

3 Given 1 and 2, therefore, the only way to change policy is to change the regime. That is what the country is facing, and even the trad med will begin to hint at this, to ask “experts” about it, not by saying it directly but perhaps by asking the Demos whether they intend to pursue impeachment. Since the Dems are content to say “no, we’re just going to do oversight/investigations, as a responsible Congress should” that means that the country must think through how to remove the current regime from office, given the fact the Dems are refusing to put their fingerprints on the regime’s neck. This is where we are, IMO.

So the larger problem is not simply what to do about Iraq — apparently, nobody knows beyond the choices of stay there vs get out. The larger problem is what to do about the fact that Bush and Cheney are still in power and are continuing to inflict irreparable harm on the country and on every foreign country in which we are militarily or strategically engaged, from Iraq to Afghanistan to Lebanon (via Israel)to Israel to the growing Iraqi refugee crises in Jordan, Syria and Iran.

It is easy to say that Iraq has now become Iraq’s problem, but even if that is true, the removal of Bush/Cheney is now an exclusively American problem. And we should all be focused on how that comes about. And because events are moving so quickly, and circumstances deteriorating so quickly, I don’t think that wating for the normal terms to end is acceptable any more.

In my view, there is no meaningful distinction between going directly to impeachment investigations/hearing and going indirectly to oversight investigations with the expectation that we will “uncover” new evidence that the public will conclude warrants impeachment proceedings. In fact, I think the latter scenario, which assumes there is something else out there that will finally make the public turn against this regime, makes little sense.

The only thing that matters is whether the public and the trad press come to the conclusion that this regime needs to be replaced, and soon. But we don’t need investigations/oversight hearings to get there; all we have to do is watch CNN. Everything the public needs to know about the necessity of removing this lawless, internationally dangerous regime is revealed every night on our tv screens.

I could be completely wrong, but I think we are now at the stage when serious people need to be managing how this will all be staged. And it may occur in ways that never trigger formal impeachment proceedings.