Now that Timmeh's network has given the thumbs up to the phrase "civil war in Iraq," with Matt Lauer playing Webster's for America by walking us through the definition this morning, where can President Bush turn for help? Not Bill Kristol:
The biggest dogfight is still ahead: whether to cut a deal with regimes like Iran, North Korea and Syria. Bush's approach has been to counter threats from oppressive regimes by trying to change them. Bill Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard and the punditocracy's best-known neocon, says it's hard to imagine the president turning his back on all that. "I think Bush is the last neocon in power," he says. "The truth is, it was always Bush."
Froomkin, who blessedly is back from vacation, has a whole lot more on the reporting on this issue. Read the whole of Froomkin — it is worth it, every single word, and click through the links, especially the Monica Toft one from Neiman Watchdog wherein she lists the criteria for consideration of a conflict as being characterized as a civil war, and discusses the fact that Iraq has met all six criteria since 2004.
With even Richard Perle trying to hand George Bush an anvil as Perle scuttles away from the sinking ship, and the Republicans in Congress burnishing their own legacies by trying to distance themselves from the Bush tarnish, it's pretty apparent that the Wurlitzer is falling apart at the seams. The GOP is in disarray, as the finger-pointing rife within the upper ranks spreads from top to bottom — every Republican for him or herself, I suppose, in the current climate — but where does that leave the folks who depend on their daily marching orders from the Wurlitzer to give their lives meaning and purpose?
When the facets of the Wurlitzer are fighting amongst themselves for blame and finger-pointing and credit, where does that leave the GOP rank and file? Uh oh…Wurlitzer down.
(This has been another public service announcement from the Department of Great Moments in Popcorn…)
UPDATE: In case you were wondering why it is that it has taken the bigwigs at the media so long to see Iraq through something other than the Administration's rose-colored lenses, Atrios has a good video demonstration.
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Fitz!
Great title, CHristy! tee-hee…!
And… Fisk!
Q. Is the focus of the war control over which group governs the political unit?
CHECK
Q. Are there at least two groups of organized combatants?
CHECK
Q. Is the state one of the combatants?
CHECK
Q. Are there at least 1,000 battle deaths per year on average?
TRIPLE CHECK
Q. Is the ratio of total deaths at least 95 percent to 5 percent? In other words, has the stronger side suffered at least 5 percent of the casualties?
HMMNNNN. CHECK?
Q. Is the war occurring within the boundaries of an internationally recognized state or entity?
CHECK
Someone sent me this pix way, way back…and I’ve been saving it up. But I have lost the attribution on the pix. So if anyone knows the origin of this particular gem — I call it “Shrub digs his own hole” — please let me know so that I can credit it. Thanks much!
Yes, thank goodness even the msm is finally acknowledging that Iraq is in civil war.
Now–how long will it take for them to stop calling those who propose US withdrawal extremists?
My head is still hurting from the illogic of it all.
Christy Hardin Smith @
4
All I could think of was Bush going down the rabbit hole in Alice in Wonderland . . .
Still not stopping the corporate PR machine (aka MSM) from spinning the war for the Repubs.
As has been mentioned, somehow the war is now magically a Dem problem, according to Noron.
Her best suggestion for Dems? Investigate why Iraqi forces aren’t standing up.
Honey, that’s easy. They hate us even more than they hate each other.
Ahh, well, the press will be a lagging indicator on all things progressive.
I pray Madam Speaker and Senator Reid are adept enough to keep the Repugs from hanging this war around our necks. They will have to fight the Repugs, corporations and the media all at the same time. Truly, a Herculean task.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 4
I love it, but with one quibble — it shows him as having stopped digging, which there’s no evidence he has! But it’s okay, maybe he’s just taking a breather (or it’s artistic license so his face shows.) *g*
Hey Karl, get me some more quarters ASAP! No, not the Chuck E Cheese tokens, they’re for when I get back from Europe…
Now that NBC and MSNBC have began to call it “civil war,” others, like the NYTimes (which for this past week has been discussing doing the same thing) are bound to follow suit, like dominoes.
Since, to follow Jefferson, the media decide and determine the terms of debate in the body politic, W’s private war, in which over 3000 US troops and countless Iraqis have lost their lives for nothing, is about to come to an end. The last straw for MSM was the savage mayhem in Sadr City over the weekend.
Get your Endless War ribbon here!
http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..s-war.html
Be the first on your block!
KING: Michael, you have been there for some time. You have seen the worst. Put the past 24 hours into context for us.
WARE: Well, John, in one sense, this is just another day in Baghdad, as spectacular as it was. The litany of death and attack and agony in this country is a daily occurrence. I mean, this was a stunning and atrocious slaughter.
I mean, this was a Thanksgiving Day massacre. But it was just one moment of punctuation in a long, evolving chapter of what is essentially a civil war. We have seen mass strikes like this before. This is the largest. It is not on its own. It’s not in isolation. And, I dare say, there are others to follow.
In the meantime, we see the institutionalization of Shia death squads striking back at the Sunni community, men showing up in legitimate government uniforms, driven by legitimate government vehicles at Sunni homes at night, hauling men off, never to be seen again.
So, this is just separate faces of a long, ugly continuum of civil war.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRA…..om.03.html
The Columbus Dispatch has this editorial cartoon depicting Bush in a hole and still digging. Priceless!
http://www.dispatch.com/editor…..A9-04.html
Just got back from lunch with a rightie friend of mine. He said he saw this morning on GMA that they are calling it a civil war…I took the opportunity to educate him as to the why.
One mind at a time!
It’s Iraq, Iraq, Iraq. Gaza, Gaza, Gaza, Lenanon, Lebanon, Lebanon. It’s the Middle East! Damn DINO Demos.
The thug congress is also wimping out for their last few days of power. Just walking away from being legislators, period. Hallelluyah!
EPU’ed but relevant here
The corporate media’s use of the term “civil war” could have a big impact on the Iraq debate and policy options. How the Iraq Study Group responds to this change in language could have a lot to do with how relevant, realistic, and honest they are and how seriously they and their conclusions are to be taken. To the extent that they hedge on whether Iraq is in civil war, they are also hedging their own credibility.
Sectarian conflict takes reconciliation. A civil war takes peace talks. Sectarian conflict is a security issue. A civil war is a political and military one.
If our presence in Iraq either was unable to prevent civil war or pushed the country into it, this merely raises again the question of why we are there at all. In such a situation, what is our military’s mission? What is our policy? And no, being a target for all sides doesn’t count.
Hugh at 17 — agreed — the timing of this prior to the ISG making any announcement is interesting, isn’t it? The NYTimes had a “leak” about some potential recommendations this morning. You have to wonder just who is doing the “leaking” and to what purpose? I swear, this mess gets more and more tangled by the minute.
Rajiv currently discussing the Iraq mess on MSNBC.
Power and money have been the glue holding the Republican coalition together. Money because of their power and money giving them power. Now they have lost power and all the sides are blaming each other. The wheels are going to come off the bus. It will be ugly.
AP calls congressional race for Mean Jean—
Talk about yer stupid voters- this part of Ohio must be populated by human vegetables.
Why do you people insist on calling this administration a sinking ship? It isn’t at all like the Titanic, if anything it’s like …The Hindenburg.
I paraphrase of course.
VOR @ 20
Lauryn Hill – The Final Hour:
rw at 21 — it’s certainly populated by a lot of folks who vote straight ticket ballots, just judging by several of my relatives who live in the area who would not be disuaded, despite their decided lack of enthusiasm for Mean Jean. SIGH
Phone interview from Ohio’s second congressional district..
“yeah I got lotsa neighbors voted fer Jean- one’s a cabbage an the other three are brussels sprouts”
klyde at 22 — because I was calling Perle a rat. You know “from a sinking ship” — it’s a sort of shorthand reference. Sorry if it was too vague…
Glenn Greenwald has an excellent post on the issue of who Pelosi should name as head of the Intelligence Committee. He takes to task the various media who characterize the issue as Pelosi just being “a girl” in her dislike of Jane Harmon. He then shows several of the pro-war, pro-NSA warrantless spying, anti-oversight of Bush comments Harmon made during the last couple of years.
Glenn on Harmon and Pelosi– and the trad media
But here’s his conclusion:
Or to tie this in with Christy’s post, Jane Harmon was one of the willingly used foot pedals in the Mighty Wurlitzer.
rwcole @ 21
This would explain Frist’s Schiavo strategy.
Redd- Yeah that’d explain it—”I voted gooper- oh ya mean SHE was on the ballot- OH SHIT! IF I’D only knowed”
rw at 29 — were you listening in on my phone conversations? LOL Seriously, though, it’s a very tough district to crack because of the kool-aid straight ticket loyalty there. And the very staunch evangelical voter push that goes on there. That Cincinnati area is a tough one — Vic Wulsin was an amazing candidate there. Mean Jean is still at the top of my topple list for the next time around…
Redd- any luck at all an her blind hatred an stupidity will cause her ta shrivle up like a slug gettin acauinted with a salt shaker.
OhioTex @
13
is the guy calling to fuckwad supposed to be Baker or LBJ? sure looks like the latter, and it would be sooo appropriate ……
Christy Hardin Smith @
4
Not I … POW!
;>)
In case you were wondering why it is that it has taken the bigwigs at the media so long to see Iraq through something other than the Administration’s rose-colored lenses, Atrios has a good video demonstration.
Time for the Dems to call in the Hammond B3 and the jazz band…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voKkE2k_f50
darkblack! those images are perfect…
So Kristol-meth says it was Bush all along? That’s strange considering PNAC, the group he co-founded and runs right now said this in 2000:
“…while the unresolved conflict in Iraq provides the immediate justification [for US military presence], the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein” and “Over the long term, Iran may well prove as large a threat to U.S. interests in the Gulf as Iraq has. And even should U.S.-Iranian relations improve, retaining forward-based forces in the region would still be an essential element in U.S. security strategy given the longstanding American interests in the region”. (courtesy Wikipedia)
This is just one of many similar statements from PNAC since its inception in 1997. Of course Billy and his ilk will be all over the Conglomerate Media blaming others without any challenge from the “journalists.” Thank Jeezus for the Internet!
Hugh @
17
no general in charge of a military force in a country could possibly be shown to be more inept than our guy in iraq. he should either pull out now or turn in his stars.
“Thank Jeezus for the Internet! “
You mean Gore, of course, considering the Wurlitzer theme of the thread.
punaise @ 36
I’ve been damned with feint punaise
;>)
During his Friday weekly news summary appearance on the Lehrer PBS news hour David Brooks said something which I almost agree with. He said that Bush’s biggest problem with the next Congress will be with the Republican senators who don’t want to have to deal with Iraq in the 2008 elections. (Actually Bush’s biggest, deeper Congressional problem will be with the oversight investigations initiated by the Democrats finally.) On the Sunday This Week show Republican senator Sam Brownback, a probable presidential aspirant, confirmed Brook’s view by saying that the Iraq situation has to be solved within the next 12 to 18 months. Host George Stephanopoulos did not see fit to ask what was so magic about the 12 to 18 month window, but it should have been obvious what even the very conservative Brownback was thinking: “No Republican stands a snowball’s chance in hell of being elected president in 2008 if Iraq is still as bad as it is today.”
retirin’ in five @ 39
Don’t you know? Gore is Jeezus.
WASHINGTON (AP) — U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan said Monday that Iraq is close to civil war, as the Bush administration stepped up diplomatic efforts to stabilize the war-torn country.
rwcole @
21
anybody who would vote for that woman, anybody who didn’t choose victoria wulsin over her, has to have shit for brains. i’m sorry, but there’s no other possible explanation. unbelieveable …….
haha
Craig sez that Cheney returned to his “homeland” with his visit to Saudi Arabia to negotiate with his friends; he won’t talk to his “enemies”.
msnbc
Perhaps not off thread, Der Spiegel (the Mirror) is running a series of articles on the first publication of secret minutes from Gorbachev’s Politburo meetings. Somewhat akin to a mix of the Cabinet and the National Security Council. The similarities between Iraq today and Vietnam then are haunting:
The German question kept entire armies of Moscow experts on their toes. But the Russians faced even more calamities. Afghanistan was one of them. On Oct. 17, 1985, the party leader recommended to the members of the Politburo that the Russians end the war and bring home their troops, who had marched into Afghanistan a little less than six years earlier. By then, the war had become a fact of life. Every day, an average of 10 young Soviet soldiers were dying in a battle against the mujahedeen some 3,400 kilometers (2,113 miles) away. Moscow, it seemed, had become accustomed to the carnage.
Gromyko had been the one to initiate the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in December 1979, even managing to implement the plan against the resistance of the military leadership, who believed it was unfeasible and pointless…
(SHINEKI?)
In October 1985, Gorbachev met secretly with Babrak Karmal, the General Secretary of the People’s Democratic Party of Afghanistan and the Russians’ governor in Kabul. Gorbachev told Karmal that, beginning in the summer of 1986, he would be on his own when it came to warding off the mujahedeen. Karmal was taken completely by surprise. Convinced that Afghanistan represented a vital buffer zone for the Soviets along their southern border, he had not expected such a radical about-face…
(BUSH-MALIKI IN JORDAN? OR WILL THEY RUMSFELD HIM?)
Perhaps not surprisingly, a majority within the party leadership — as revealed by the Politburo minutes — suddenly began claiming to have seen from the start that the Afghanistan invasion was a risky adventure. (UNDERLINE MINE with no respect to Lieberscheisse) But Gorbachev soon realized that there was also serious opposition to his plan for immediate withdrawal — and that the Afghans themselves were unwilling to accept the departure of Soviet troops.
Gorbachev’s first move was to replace Karmal with the more nationalist Mohammad Najibullah before then firing his ambassador in Kabul. Indeed, one need hardly look further than this episode to notice the change Gorbachev had brought to the Kremlin. On May 29, 1986, he told the Politburo:
Our ambassador says to Najibullah: “I have made you General Secretary.” It is time to recall him. He is behaving like a general governor. (WHO THOUGHT UP THE TITLE PROCONSUL FOR BREMER?)
Afghanistan was now a permanent item on the agenda during meetings of the Kremlin’s inner circle. Gorbachev’s main concern was that the withdrawal be accomplished in an orderly fashion and that the United States and Pakistan not become involved. In other words, Gorbachev wanted to remain in control of the withdrawal. “The outcome must not look like a humiliating defeat. We have lost too many of our boys.”
On July 11:
We are pulling out six regiments. In this way we demonstrate that the USSR does not intend to “break through to the warm seas.” Najibullah must understand that we are serious about all of this. And that he must take the matter into his own hands. The Afghans should deal with their country themselves. And we ought to reduce the number of “advisors” we have there, 9,000 at present. It is time to put an end to our dominance there.
But little actually happened — at least for the time being. Gorbachev knew that many around him interpreted the new way of thinking as little more than a tactical maneuver and that many of his military leaders still felt that the doctrine of a balance of power with the United States should remain their guiding light. Afghanistan was, for them, an absolute necessity.
The Kremlin leader soon realized that his approach was being resisted. In the ensuing months, there were fierce debates in the Politburo in which Gorbachev attempted, once again, to break through all fundamental opposition to his policy:
Gorbachev: We have been fighting there for six years now! If this continues, we will be doing so for another 20 or 30 years.
Shevardnadze: We must end the war, and we must set a deadline for troop withdrawal. Our people there do not understand that they are dealing with a sovereign state.
Gorbachev: Why don’t you do all of these things? In which office were the decisions made that contradict our decisions here in the Politburo? There is no movement anywhere. We had set ourselves a clear goal, and that was to withdraw 50 percent of our troops within two years. After all, we don’t want socialism there. We simply want to prevent the United States from developing a military presence there after we withdraw. (He turns, demonstratively, to KGB deputy chief Kryuchkov) So no objections? Then it’s settled.
But things did not improve. Najibullah was unable to gain a foothold and did not pursue the policy of “national reconciliation” demanded by Gorbachev, knowing full well that he had supporters in Moscow who felt the same way, including KGB leader Kryuchkov (who would stage a coup against Gorbachev in the summer of 1991). (We have not discussed national reconciliation and reparations in our discussions of pulling out the troops.)
“We must find a way not to lose Afghanistan,” Kryuchkov said at a meeting in May 1987. “We cannot allow it to become a military staging ground for anyone else, be it Iran, Turkey or the fundamentalists. We cannot leave, walk away and abandon everything.”
Once again, it was Gorbachev who launched a tirade against those seeking to boycott his policy. He spoke of the Afghan king, with whom he hoped the Russians could establish a relationship, of the fact that Afghan emigration had to be taken into account and that an Afghanistan without Islam was inconceivable and that, for this reason, the opposition had to be part of the government in Kabul. “It will not work with two or three percent of seats; it will have to be more than 50 percent of government posts.” It was tantamount to blasphemy in a place where, only a few years earlier, precisely the opposite had been decided!
But the change in direction in Kabul came too late and was ineffective, as the mujahedeen began their siege of the capital. Najibullah’s calls for military assistance grew louder and louder, but by April 1988 Gorbachev knew that this government could no longer be rescued.
In the fall of 1988, Najibullah requested a Soviet bombing attack on mujahedeen leader Massud and found supporters for his plan in Moscow. Gorbachev only managed to prevent yet another bloodbath by sending an angry memo to the members of the Politburo.
The withdrawal of the last Russian regiment in Afghanistan
On a March evening in 1989, the general secretary summoned the Politburo to his country house because Najibullah had urgently requested air support once again, this time near Jalalabad. And some members were once again in favor of granting the request. “The majority is categorically against direct participation in combat operations,” he barked at the assembled group.
What the minutes report in March 1990 was paradoxical but true. By that time the last Soviet soldier had already returned home. The mujahedeen were advancing on Kabul and Najibullah wanted the Russians to bomb the airport at Bagram, which the enemy had already captured and from which they were threatening the president with the “Romanian solution,” — a reference to the Christmas day, 1989 killing of Communist Romanian leader Nicolae Ceausescu and his wife Elena. Even though everything was over, the old guard in the Politburo tried once again to outflank Gorbachev:
Belousov (deputy premier for the weapons industry): We could send airplanes. It would provide powerful support. And we could send Najibullah more weapons.
Shevardnadze: I rule out any military involvement.
Saikov (deputy head of the defense council): But if Najibullah falls, the people will ask us: What did we fight for in the first place?
Randy: and this request for bombing is after the troops are withdrawn, meaning we must keep our eye on the prize. Bringing the troops home is a wonderful step towards humanity, but not the end game. These oil sucking bastards are nasty.
darkblack: feint, perhaps (zigged when I shoulda zagged), but not feigned
The photo: Lost in Put Put space.
OT: Trying to get the word out about this suit. McCreary may have to step down. Dems could get another seat in the house.
LA-04 residency issue heads to Federal Court
by Mike Stagg, Sat Nov 25, 2006 at 02:01:18 PM EST
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/11/25/14118/617
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl….._asks.html
this “family” is just too, too much!
oh and isn’t the army relaxing their recruiting standards? I mean 25 year old twins– it’s a two-fer!
Redd- Nice photo of Clusterfuck gettin borned again!
“Contractions! Bear Down- Bear Down– Here he comes- ugly little fucker ain’t he?
Eureka Springs, AR @ 47
“Now, watch this dive.”
NYT article on whether Iraq is in civil war.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11…..mp;ei=5087
Mrs. Bush- you been washin down here? It’s all green n smelly.
angie:
According to sources, the U.S. embassy encouraged the two girls to cut their stay short because the added attention was making their security very difficult.
But to the dismay and anger of some U.S. embassy and security staff, the girls stayed on.
Cut & Run will not be countenanced.
heh, punaise– guess it’s an inbred trait.
What was that Scarlett Johansen movie “Lost in Moderation?”
punaise @ 46
“Spay the coarse“
;>)
I live North of there. It’s the geography of OH2. A river of Kool-aid flows through it.
Britain to reduce forces by “thousands”
http://english.aljazeera.net/N…..3548F8.htm
Are they fucking kidding? geeeezzz, check this out:
“Everybody MUST get
Estoned”
rwcole @
21
That’s E-voting action. Got to fix this or we are stopped in our tracks.
Oh, look over there — suspicious stuff going on at the Lincoln Memorial, according to CNN.
rwcole @ 53
Just like the weed you used to sell in college. From my lips to…
I said about six months ago that when social change happens it happens fast, but I never imagined that it would come down in bits and pieces all over the place. It’s like Mythbusters thought it would be fun to blow up a junk yard and all the chunks are coming down all over the place.
Biodun @ 64
‘ere..
Lincoln Memorial was shut down today after “suspicious items” were found, including a note which referred to anthrax and two bottles with “mysterious liquid” found in the women’s restroom.
“A suspicious packing envelope, along with a note mentioning anthrax, was found Nov. 27 at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, and a suspicious liquid resembling a sports drink was found in the ladies’ restroom,” Stratfor reports. “Authorities said they are looking for a male in his mid-30s, wearing green, who was seen in the vicinity.”
It’s not easy being green zoned.
Will our troops be able to escape the civil war safely?
fahrender @
44
They are mean, nasty, stubborn, Bush voting megachurch-going full-of-hate Republican ninnies, who are “Good Germans” in the worst meaning of the word. So, they wanted someone who represented THEM, and they voted for her.
Good Germans HATE GW Clusterfuck!!!!
Second District Megachurches singin
“Rockhead of Ages”
CNN sez have been in Iraq a day longer than we were in Europe in WW2.
1348 days.
Heckuva job Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Tenet, Powell, Franks, Rove, Libby etc. and your neocon cabal and backwash supporters.
sick liars.
sofistic @ 66
According to Deleuze, a French philosopher, “Desire is like a wave of shit that erupts in the socius.” Yes, shit happens…fast.
“ya put the merde in the socius- shake it all up”
We got trouble in Washington- an it resembles a sports drink.
rw, that Freeper got outta jail, eh?
(This has been another public service announcement from the Department of Great Moments in Popcorn…)
Ha! I just sat down with a bowl of popcorn and then opened my computer to this.
Oh Christy, I have a Golden Eagle just outside my window. It’s huge! Where is my cat?
rwcole @ 76
Somebody has ades?
An ongoing mantra of US political leadership, from Bush to Senator Levin, is that the Iraqi government must crack down on Shia militia:
NYT article on ISG recommendations
But after reading another article [which I can’t find now], one could come to exactly the opposite conclusion. It appears that Sadr’s militia was the only force performing the normal government functions of assisting citizens, taking people to hospitals/morgues and protecting the poplulation in Sadr city, after last Thursday’s horrific bombings that killed over 200. Government troops refused to help, but Sadr militia did everything one would expect of police and civil affairs agents. Sadr is replicating the Hezbollah model, and it is probably impossible to “disarm” these folks, who are viewed very differently in their community from how the Bush administration wishes to portray them.
There’s a debate in the US about what would happen to civil order if US troops withdraw, but one can imagine a more serious discussion inside Iraq about what would happen if the US forces tried to remove/disarm the militias. We’re not used to thinking in these terms, but the Iraqis are already there.
Shez–outa jail? Naw- just a conjugal visit- let im out ta fuck somethin up.
Great post. It hadn’t occurred to me (though it should have) that once the various pipes in the Wurlitzer started playing their own tune, the piece would begin to sound like one of more obscure works of Arnold Schoenberg, without their logic. But not to fear. The DC establishment pundits will save the day by attacking Pelosi and Reid as soon as they can find a handle. That won’t be long, because Rove is no doubt working overtime to find one. The problem is that the noise from that broken Wurlitzer is drowning everything else out.
egregious—Yeah- Craterade
rwcole @ 72
In DC that’s Blockhead of the Ages.
Bingo!
egregious at 77 — hehehehe Funny! And here I am, sitting here with a lovely cuppa English Breakfast tea. :)
from Froomkin:
This U.S. citizen voter: “WITHDRAW!” (As my dearly departed Dad would add, with a wink, “Immediately, if not sooner.”)
Re the picture, could you photoshop a disgusted-looking fox looking in at Bush?
Sadr’s kind of a latter day Mayor Daley eh- cept for the genocide of course.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 34
A copy of this video should be sent to Tony
Snowjob when the press asks him about the
civil war….
The correspondent(Michael Weare)deserves an Emmy
Eureka at 78 — oooooh, hope your kitty is inside and safe. Golden eagles are gorgeous. We had a young red-tailed hawk eyeing the birdfeeder last winter — it swooped down and perched on the top of the feeder right by my kitchen window. I was in birdwatching heaven for a good five minutes before it decided that making a run into our rhododendrons was not going to be worth it and it flew away.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 87
They also make English Afternoon. Glad you are enjoying it. What weather here! 60 plus.
Thanks Christy,
I just back from David Sanger’s article in the NYT. The way it ended is indicative:
A sense of pervasive unreality permeates Bush’s Iraq policy. The security forces are composed of militias. In what kind of kabuki world do they live where these militias disarm themselves? Or is the idea that each militiaman will ritualistically take his weapon and give it up to someone from the security forces (which just coincidentally happens to be himself)? Problem solved.
Many of us probably when through a phase where we experimented with drugs. But honestly, I would never have touched the stuff Hadley and Bush are on with a ten foot pole.
We’ve got a pair of hawks on the golf course- always bein pestered by little pissant birds as they soar searchin for prey..
I’m always hopin they’ll get a gooper in mid rant.
On msnbc they said not every expert agrees this is a ‘classic’ civil war. Why is that? Well, one guy [not on the air] believes they have to be wearing uniforms for it to be a civil war.
Yeah, and next he’ll say it’s not really a war unless they are lined up in rows to shoot each other.
Time to bug out. Now. TODAY.
Holy shit, Pam Anderson is divorcing Kid Rock. We need to ban Celebrity Marriage!
Jeebus, Twisted — didn’t they just get married a few months ago?
C’mon it was 4 months of wedded bliss!
Clusterfuck on civil war
“Well there isn’t a civil war in Iraq- but if it WAS a civil war- then america wouldn’t take sides- so we’d assing HALF our troops ta each side so that we wouldn’t be playin favorites–we’d still be killin Iraqis- which is good- but we’d be killin each other too- which is not so good- but we’d be doin SOMETHIN ta promote democracy–which is VERY good.
punaise @
55
Is “Cut” the cute one?
egregious @ 96
Yes, and one side should be dressed in blue uniforms, the other side in grey. They should also carry muskets.
egregious at 92 — ooh, don’t think I’ve seen “English afternoon.” Will have to look for it. Thanks for the tip.
Yeah, weather is gorgeous here as well. Warm and pleasant — we are supposed to get another day of loveliness, and then back to cold and dreary. Perhaps I can get a few more daffodil bulbs into the ground between now and Wednesday. :)
His video probably isn’t as good as Tommy Lee’s was.
Twisted at 98 — “Wedded bliss” — is that what the kids are calling it these days?
O.o
Rain stopped but it’s still only 54 degrees
“Throw some more logs on that fire Martha!!”
Twisted at 98 — seriously, though, I know she gets lampooned a lot in the media, but I think there is a shrewd cookie under that blonde mane — she’s been able to keep working for quite a while in a business where women don’t often get much of a break after the age of 24 or so — and you don’t get those jobs without something going for you other than your cup size, ya know? Perhaps they realized that there just wasn’t the long-term compatibility that they had hoped for?
From CNN.com:
Damn I’m gonna have to take my gift back now.
mc at 101 — good one. *snerk*
rwcole @ 74
W version: “put the line in the coke, or naught”
vows, schmows…
:(
Hugh @ 94
I think it’s a “blame the Iraqis” strategy, since somebody other than Bush and the GOP has to take the blame. Obviously, since we couldn’t put together a national government without including parties that had their own militias, asking Maliki to disarm them while maintaining a stable government is delusional. The best we can hope for is that it’s a face-saving ploy, and few other than Georgie himself are delusional enough to believe it.
It’s also yet another creationism-style tactic — include enough truth to make it sound plausible, while leaving out the parts that don’t support your thesis. In this case, include the truth “Iraq cannot have a stable government and peace unless the militias are disarmed” and leave out “neither we nor our Iraqi government are capable of disarming them,” since that would lead logically to “we can’t fix it” rather than “it’s the Iraqis fault when it fails.”
scarecrow @ 81
The al-Malaki government is corrupt through and through and dysfunctional. It cannot: suppress the civil war; contain rogue militias, some of which wear government military uniforms; engage the foreign jihadists; hold the country together, period. The borders are porous. At this point, the US is moving toward paralysis in Iraq. As Kofi Annan said: “the US is trapped in Iraq.”
How all this plays out will be very interesting over the next six months. So, everybody should relax over the holidays. Shit will begin to happen in Washington in January. As for Iraq, unfortunately, shit will continue to happen everyday before the US pulls out, when it pulls out, and after it pulls out. It’s truly a non-zero sum situation in this sense: everybody loses.
Twisted at 108 — oh, that’s a shame. I’ve been there a couple of times, and it’s a rough place to be — that would especially be true if the relationship were sucking at the same time. Hope she’s got some good friends to lean on because having a miscarriage this close to the holidays is especially painful. (At least it was for me, anyway…)
I think she has transcended the medium she worked in (TV) to become one of those “celebrities” like Anna Nicole who can keep the buzz going. I think you are right, she’s no dummy, although making a porno tape with Tommy Lee was probably the differentiating factor. She started the genre of celebrity porn tapes.
I wrote off Kid Rock and her when they played for the Gooper gala here in MI last month. To hell with them, give me Mosher/Maxwell and any other smart musicians anyday.
mc @ 102
And they have to write heartwarming letters home, with background music!
(This concept brought to you by “everything the GOP knows about the world they learned by watching TV.”)
Redshift @ 116
Culled Mountain
I’m really surprised at FDL. I posted new revelations about the top leadership of the soviet Union’s debate over “bring the boys home” (they didn’t have girls) from Afghanistan and no one comments? The parallels to what we face now are so striking, and no one comments. Political scientists and historians will go over these new revelations with a fine-tooth comb, but here we discuss celebrity marriage and wow each other with our puns? (Not that i don’t enjoy the background brilliance.)
C’mon pups, we have a serious problem which is killing hundreds of people every day. Not to mention that america is the FEARED laughingstock of the rest of the world, though despite Michael Ware’s courage, you won’t find that discussed.
Crazy Horse at 119 — (a) your comment was stuck in moderation because it was so long, and I just freed it up a couple of minutes ago, so it is likely that not many folks have seen it and (b) lecturing people about what they ought to be talking about is a little heavy-handed, don’t you think?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 120
Frankly, I don’t need the Soviets’ viewpoint to know that the war in Iraq was a bad idea.
Redshift @ 112
In my 102, I did not mean to make light of the death and destruction occurring in Iraq. Whatever it’s called, what we, the United States of America, have done to bring Iraq to this point is horrific. And sadly, we all bear the responsibility-not just Bush and the neo-kooks.
Redshift has it exactly right. Using the Pottery Barn rule analogy: we broke it, then glanced around to see if anybody was looking. When we realized everybody was watching, we then pointed at our friend, Iraq, and loudly proclaimed, “He did it, he did it!”
At least the Bush daughters are doing their share in the “war on terror”. Boozing it up, smoking ciggies and getting asked to leave a nation that was notoriously welcoming of ex-Nazis.
-GSD
Redshift,
Of course, it is my contention that the militias and the parties are one and the same thing. It is not uncommon for militias to have political wings. What is more unusual is that both should play such an important role in Iraq’s government and security services.
Take Muqtada al Sadr for example. He has a political party and controls I believe the largest bloc of deputies supporting Maliki. He leads one of the largest and most violent militias in Iraq, the Mahdi Army, and he has control of the Health Ministry which is run for and by his militia. How Bush and company can pretend that the government, the political parties, the militias, and the security forces are all distinct and separate is just beyond me.
Moqtada al Sadr translated into Irish is Jerry Adams.
-GSD
Senior Rice aide, Philip Zelikow resigns from post
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Philip Zelikow, one of U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s closest advisers on Iraq and the Middle East, will quit his post to return to university teaching, a State Department official said on Monday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200…..zelikow_dc
Had Enough I guess
mc @ 122
How, exactly, are we going to convince the militias to disarm? The right to bear arms is ferociously defended in the US, even in areas where there is almost no violent crime. How do you convince someone to give up their guns when they just saw their next-door neighbors get killed and mutilated?
A rightie co-worker just emailed me a link for the new GOP calendar….only $25.00
I said $25.00 freakin dollars for a GOP calendar??&$%#@@ …and rightie says…it’s less than .06 cents a day. Yikes
http://www.gop.com/store/Detail.aspx?id=15
mind the zigs….
ccmask @ 128
Does it have naked pictures of Dr Laura? I can get those for free off the Internets
ccmask @
128
My God, the have a picture of Dick Cheney shooting Santa Claus in the face for December.
Never mind the Liddy Dole centerfold in July…..eeewwwfff..
-GSD
http://www.columbusdispatch.co…..ory=229478
Pryce (R, Ohio) declared winner by 1,054-vote margin
Official totals trigger automatic recount
Cozumel @
126
Abandon Chimp.
-GSD
cnn.com:
Frank Probst @ 121
We all know it was a bad idea. But how to extricate seems to be the discussion of the day, and we can learn from what they tried.
The discussions i quoted have a direct bearing on today’s discussion. The Lieberfooks and Rumsbums and Chaineys are all there, and we need to know how to stop them. And we need to know why, and please excuse me but i’m not at this moment looking to Kid Rock’s next Ho.
Christy, me got no complaints that it took awhile in moderation. I have so much respect for what goes on here… and i always forget how much release you all need from 24/7 propaganda.
Lakers, one more thing… please don’t make too many jokes about “good Germans.” Those days are gone. i’ve lived here five years now, in the biggest industrial country which is trying by government policy to be the sustainable economy leader of the world, and that effort is not only admirable, it must be copied quickly.
GSD @ 123
That’s a Secret Service nightmare, in my opinion. ABC sent someone in to chat with them and said that Secret Service agents were nowhere to be seen. That’s extremely bad PR for the Secret Service. And by the way, it’s the American embassy that’s asking them to leave, not Argentina. Unlike most government agencies, it seems that our embassy in Argentina is able to spot a potential train wreck before it actually happens.
Twisted Martini @
130
wrt Keith Olberman and his write-up in the LA Times:
The Los Angeles Times is recognizing what many of us have already realized– that Keith Olbermann is not a voice crying in the wilderness.
The subhead of the Times piece says it all–
“Anti-Bush views have driven up the ratings of the former sportscaster’s MSNBC show.”
snip
“People just think, ‘He speaks for me,’ ” said Jane Hamsher, a Mill Valley, Calif., author who runs a liberal blog at firedoglake.com. “There was no resonance within the media for their perspective, and suddenly Keith came on the scene and gave voice to these long-simmering feelings of disgust with the war.”
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…../65526/365
July & August on that calendar are priceless…eek.
Jacqrat: I’m having trouble deciding whether September or October is the most disgustingly staged photo-op.
I couldn’t even bring myself to clicky the linky for fear I’d burst into flames at the mere sight of it.
:-)
scarecrow @ 27
new thread
Dr. Bong @ 140
Be Safe! Spark up bongs, not eyeballs!
Twisted Martini @
97
i heard that BORAT finally bagger her;-)
Crazy Horse @ 135,
I was using the term as it’s used here:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler……drome.html
Believe me, I was not joking.
I’m in EPU country, but I don’t think this is a real civil war — it’s worse than a real civil war.
The more apt description is John Locke’s description (from Leviathan) of the war of all against all. The Sunni (Ba’athist remnants, I guess) are up against Shia around Baghdad, sure. But there are also Shia militias going at it down around Basra (al Sadr’s Mahdi Army against another Shia militia), and Sunnis knocking heads out west. There is some low-level ethnic cleansing going on up north, where the Kurd’s are clearing out ethnic Arabs.
It’s a f***ing mess, is what it is. A conventional civil war pits a government against an insurrection (e.g., the American Civil War, the Nigeria/Biafra mess of the 1970s, the Vietnamese civil colonial war of 1948-1975, etc. In the Mess O’Potamia (acknowledgement to Jon Stewart et al.) things aren’t nearly so organized.
BC
Cozumel @
126
Body blow to Rice.