JOE! Wilson, that is…

JOE!

KEITH O!

Jane and Fitz!

DIPLOMACY!

KO doing the show from L.A. talking about the Civil War a la Cronkite, “The way it is.”

Get out of Iraq now! End the gulag that is Gaza!

Craig Crawford on KO saying that if the WH were in a 12 step program they still wouldn’t get past the 1st step of admitting there is a problem. Denial.

Jane - As a Viet Nam era draft dodger I know zip about military tactics, but as I recall the exit from Saigon was pretty hairy. That said, I venture a guess that the flowers that were missing on our troops’arrival might be evident lining the path to the airport on the way out. I don’t see that any faction would gain by making an American exit difficult, but then this is clearly not my field of expertise.

Wow. Brutally honest, well-informed and levelheaded comment by Mr. Wilson.

Imagine if noron odonnell ever got hold of it.

Would the even be willing to negotiate a cease fire long enough for us to leave? Problem is that this admin. has no intention of leaving. Permanent bases anyone?

in a similar vein, George Packer via Kevin Drum:

Iraq is well and truly lost, he says, but a lot of Iraqis who worked with us and trusted us will die hideous deaths if we abandon them:

Those Iraqis who have had anything to do with the occupation and its promises of democracy will be among the first to be killed: the translators, the government officials, the embassy employees, the journalists, the organizers of women’s and human rights groups.

….If the United States leaves Iraq, our last shred of honor and decency will require us to save as many of these Iraqis as possible. In June, a U.S. Embassy cable about the lives of the Iraqi staff was leaked to The Washington Post. Among many disturbing examples of intimidation and fear was this sentence: “In March, a few staff approached us to ask what provisions would we make for them if we evacuate.” The cable gave no answer. The U.S. Embassy in Baghdad does not issue visas.

OT:

http://news.aol.com/dailypulse.....0000000001

aol users and YOU can weigh in on your confidence in chimpy . . .

not looking good for clusterfuck at the moment1

When I read Ambassador Joe’s words on Sunday (cited above) to my friend, he nodded his head and said, “this is the worst thing we have done as a Nation. Iraq and Afghanistan and so much more.”

Whatever course is chosen, one thing is becoming patently clear, it will be a maneuver or series of maneuvers that require the most deft touch in terms of diplomatic measures combined with military expertise. Frankly, this administration has shown absolutely no ability in those regards. In fact, they have gone a long way towards proving they are the worst in history. I worry greatly for our kids over there. They deserve so much better and I don’t know where they will get it with this crew. If I was a praying man, I’d start praying hard right now and I wouldn’t let up until FDR and MacArthur were resurrected.

Slightly OT-
I’m sorry that I missed the second part of Chandrasekaran’s Book Salon. I have to say that reading it is like a primer on how badly the 1600 Crew mismanaged everything. From serving Pork in the dining hall and asking Muslims to ignore it, to the Sixty-Grit Employment Agency it’s pretty unbelievable.

I have a hard time believing that historians won’t use books like “Imperial Life” as touchstones when they review the incompetance and misjudgement of the BunnyPants Administration.

Anyone who knew what was happening in Iraq in 2003 after the declaration of “Mission Accomplished” and was complicit in the foolishness that followed from a policy and politics-as-policy standpoint deserves the scorn of future generations. There were no “good guys” really amongst the appointees, camp-followers, opportunists and political hookers, just many who were less bad than others. IMHO.

And now a whole country pays the price. Ours, theirs or both?

I want the Bush dynasty laid bare. I want the neocons brought to justice. I want to know the justification for politicians in my party (Demos) for their support of the Iraq invasion and their continued support for the Bush slaughter of Iraqi’s and our soldiers deaths. I want accountability.

The idea that our troops can just waltz out when ever they please is dead wrong. “Retreating” is the toughest military manuever to execute.

John Casper is right. As various people have noted, our supply lines in Iraq are very vulnerable if we go too far in pissing off certain Shiite factions. The entire reason that the U.S. hasn’t been told to leave already is because those factions have seen it as being in their interest for us to stay.

If we announce a withdrawal, we need to be make damn sure it doesn’t suddenly become in someone’s interest to launch a surprise attack on our supply lines.

Joe’s right, and this is another subject Steve Gilliard wrote about in detail ages ago wrt Iraq.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 15

I want the Bush dynasty laid bare. I want the neocons brought to justice. I want to know the justification for politicians in my party (Demos) for their support of the Iraq invasion and their continued support for the Bush slaughter of Iraqi’s and our soldiers deaths. I want accountability.

HEAR, HEAR!!

This business in the Middle East is perhaps out of control. God help us.

Jo Fish @ 14

There were no “good guys” really amongst the appointees, camp-followers, opportunists and political hookers, just many who were less bad than others.

And don’t EVER let the main stream media off the hook. That is the collection of souls responsible for insuring that Orwell’s Ministry of Truth was nothing more than the fictional ramblings of a paranoid who’d seen Franco’s fascism up close and was scarred for life because of it. They blew it! And why? Because Rupert Murdock showed them that they could make more money peddling propaganda than truth; plain and simple.

Keith Olbermann and the people he interviews are making a strong case that there IS A CIVIL WAR in Iraq, and that the U.S. should get out now.

Nice write-up in the Oakland (CA) Tribune about the lead trial attorney, Joe Cotchett, in the Wilson’s civil suit.

From the article:

A judge for the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia will hear the defendants’ motion to dismiss in early February, said Cotchett, who acknowledged that defeating the motion will a challenge. But the former Army Special Forces colonel will make it as difficult as possible for his opponents to avert a trial.

“There’s no lawyer who has more of a go-for-the-throat, never stop, push, drive, squeeze mentality than Joe,” said George Corey, a Millbrae attorney who has worked with — and against — Cotchett. “All you have to do is be on the other side of the case, and you’ll find out. You’ll think he has five legs and 10 arms coming at you.”

Article also has a quote from Larry Johnson.

When this is all over (assuming that it will end at some point) I hope we live to see this generation’s equivalent of the Nuremberg trials.

WRT to the mistakes of Afghanistan, you can now download a two-part report by the superb BBC journalist Lyse Doucet here.

Excellent companion to the BBC series “Baghdad Billions,” downloadable here.

The BBC World Service Documentary Archives are a treasure trove of podcasting goodness.

Fron the AOL News poll (i heart jane 5:14 p.m. above):

How much confidence do you have in Bush?
None 67%
A lot 23%
A little 10%

Thanks ralphbon!

neurophius @ 25

Fron the AOL News poll (i heart jane 5:14 p.m. above):

How much confidence do you have in Bush?
None 67%
A lot 23%
A little 10%

Put it in terms of a Faux question, “If the President sat semi-catatonic in a corner and played with his own body waste for the rest of his term; do you think he could make matters any worse?”

500 million for a building to house W’s copy of The Pet Goat. Just imagine!

wow. never thought of that, being i have no military experience. But seems that this is a basic fact of the military and I remember reading about the extreme difficulty and care George Washington took in bringing his troops back from Brooklyn over the East River at the beginning of the Revolutionary war.

Arianna… on Olbermann

I am in love with her brain.

Argentina to Bush sisters: GET OUT NOW!!

That might be worth a Late Nite post.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 15

I . . . I want accountability.

Impeachment is not good enough. I want them behind bars.

RevDeb @ 28

500 million for a building to house W’s copy of The Pet Goat. Just imagine!

$449 for the storage shed, and $499,999,551 for the security force from Blackwater….

johnSwifty - yeah, you’re right. I guess I was more focused on those souls who managed to immortalize themselves as living, breathing monuments to the Peter Principle than the self-serving, and delusional media.

But you’re right, they were among the biggest camp-followers/political hookers. Some of them were even getting paid by the 1600 Crew to do it.

Imagine that.

Oh, and in response to your question:

…“If the President sat semi-catatonic in a corner and played with his own body waste for the rest of his term; do you think he could make matters any worse?”

Well, not until he decideded to invade an neighboring outhouse because it had waste-destruction related programs.

montag @ 33

RevDeb @ 28

500 million for a building to house W’s copy of The Pet Goat. Just imagine!

$449 for the storage shed, and $499,999,551 for the security force from Blackwater….

Sounds about right.

TRex @ 31

Argentina to Bush sisters: GET OUT NOW!!

That might be worth a Late Nite post.

“Don’t cry for me, our Jenna ‘n twinna”

I ask again; what do the ‘first twins’ do exactly?

RevDeb @ 28

500 million for a building to house W’s copy of The Pet Goat. Just imagine!

A library: what a particularly inappropriate symbol to memorialize that idiot.

Some of that money is to pay for a “think tank” (another Bush non-sequitor) whose job it will be to try to rewrite history in George W. Bush’s favor.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 37

I ask again; what do the ‘first twins’ do exactly?

They are heroically reducing the alcohol surplus in the western hemisphere.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 37

I ask again; what do the ‘first twins’ do exactly?

Have fun on the Bush dime… (with a little help from the taxpayer for security).

TRex @ 31

Argentina to Bush sisters: GET OUT NOW!!

That might be worth a Late Nite post.

Imagine either or both being kidnapped because the local govt. can’t guarantee their safety. . . . that scenario was depicted in the West Wing and it wasn’t pretty. And that Pres. and 1st daughter we liked.

Oy.

neurophius @ 38

RevDeb @ 28

500 million for a building to house W’s copy of The Pet Goat. Just imagine!

A library: what a particularly inappropriate symbol to memorialize that idiot.

Some of that money is to pay for a “think tank” (another Bush non-sequitor) whose job it will be to try to rewrite history in George W. Bush’s favor.

A new Minstry of Truth.

I read the book club thread after my dinner guests left last night. Ambassador Wilson’s remarks leapt off the page.

It is so awful in Iraq that it makes Afghanistan look like a success. But Afghanistan has brought every occupying empire to its knees. Reagan didn’t need to fire a shot to bring down Brezhnev’s lumbering bear: it had already been mortally wounded in Afghanistan.

There will be no American empire left at the end of this story. What will that look like? Will it end in blood like the Austro-Hungarians or in poverty like the British?

Jo Fish @ 34

Oh, and in response to your question:

…“If the President sat semi-catatonic in a corner and played with his own body waste for the rest of his term; do you think he could make matters any worse?”

Well, not until he decideded to invade an neighboring outhouse because it had waste-destruction related programs.

Hee! But, you know, it was always about the oil. “The Historians” will judge this administration and history will find that Cheney was the driving force behind a power play for oil and miltary position; I’m sure of it.

The House of Saud forced his hand some by making him work towards removing American forces from Saudi Arabia; but he made the choice to focus on Iraq as his new staging ground…fat government contracts for Halliburton, a place to ditch the troups and oil, oil, oil. What could go wrong?

“Don’t cry for me, our Jenna ‘n twinna”

I didn’t even have to look

RevDeb @ 28

500 million for a building to house W’s copy of The Pet Goat. Just imagine!

On a whim, I searched Amazon for “my pet goat” but didn’t find it. I was tickled to see the third match was:

All the Best, George Bush: My Life in Letters and Other Writings

All the Best, George Bush: My Life in Letters and Other Writings by George W. Bush (Paperback - Oct 3, 2000)
Books: See all 57 items
Buy new: $16.00 $10.88 Used & new from $0.01

punaise @ 36

TRex @ 31

Argentina to Bush sisters: GET OUT NOW!!

That might be worth a Late Nite post.

“Don’t cry for me, our Jenna ‘n twinna”

In a sparkling bit of irony, let’s rename them “Cut and Run.” Cut is the plump one.

Keep in mind how horribly managed the exit from
Saigon was. There were barges on the Saigon river waiting to take people who had worked with us out to the ships offshore. US Ambassador Graham Martin thought somehow the ARVN would hold and turn the tide so he waited far too long to order the evacuation. If I were an Iraqi working for the “Coalition” I’d be damn sure I knew what was going on.
petedownunder @
7

Jane - As a Viet Nam era draft dodger I know zip about military tactics, but as I recall the exit from Saigon was pretty hairy. That said, I venture a guess that the flowers that were missing on our troops’arrival might be evident lining the path to the airport on the way out. I don’t see that any faction would gain by making an American exit difficult, but then this is clearly not my field of expertise.

OT - did we ever find out what Shooter was doin’ in Saudi Arabia?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 30

Arianna… on Olbermann

I am in love with her brain.

You have fine taste Oklahoma kiddo. You would enjoy her book on Picasso - published before her marriage and IMHO the best biography of the artist to date. She is a fine art historian in addition to her other gifts. The book turns up on ebay and other online markets from time to time.

It makes me wonder how many ex-republican guard insurgents remember the retreat at the end of Gulf War I when the iraqi army was abandoning Kuwait and tens of thousands of Iraqi soldiers were slaughtered by our strafing fighter jets in what was termed a “turkey shoot.”

OT: a holdover from the last thread.

… Steve Gilliard sent me an old post of his yesterday that he’d written three years ago, about how Iraq could devolve into civil war. It would be almost funny if it weren’t so tragic — how come none of the Great Men of Washington could figure this out? Reprinted in its entirety with permission — JH)

It turns out that some of them had.

I attended a Christmas part in December 1990 where a friend who’d been called up to work at the Pentagon on the logistic preparations for Desert Storm told me that his friends in the CIA and State Dept. were desperately trying to figure out what would happen if we took out Saddam Hussein. Every option they’d come up with was grim with the most likely being a civil war followed by a Iranian dominance.

These people advised Bush’s father, who in 1998 wrote:

Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different–and perhaps barren–outcome.

RevDeb @ 42

neurophius @ 38

RevDeb @ 28

Keith O. said visitors to the “Iraq wing” will be “greeted as liberators.”

A library: what a particularly inappropriate symbol to memorialize that idiot.

Some of that money is to pay for a “think tank” (another Bush non-sequitor) whose job it will be to try to rewrite history in George W. Bush’s favor.

A new Minstry of Truth.

Troops
Home
NOW

-or-

I raqwar
S till
G oing

George W. Bush Think Tank: a reservoir of intellectual prowess, flush with the resources needed to shepherd his legacy through these difficult times.

punaise @ 54

George W. Bush Think Tank: a reservoir of intellectual prowess, flush with the resources needed to shepherd his legacy through these difficult times.

Drink tank.

Exit from Saigon.

bg @ 56

punaise @ 54

George W. Bush Think Tank: a reservoir of intellectual prowess, flush with the resources needed to shepherd his legacy through these difficult times.

Drink tank.

It will plumb the depths of the intellectual ressources that were the hallmark of his administration.

neurophius @ 57

bg @ 56

punaise @ 54

Drink tank.

It will plumb the depths of the intellectual ressources that were the hallmark of his administration.

Bottoms up!!

Just so folks know, that was not the Embassy

TeddySanFran @ 56

Exit from Saigon.

Vietnam civilians try to board an Air America helicopter on an apartment rooftop in Saigon, April 29, 1975. This is perhaps the most famous image from the Fall of Saigon. It was taken by Hubert Van Es, a Dutch photographer working for United Press International. The building in the photo is frequently referred to as the US Embassy, but in fact is an apartment building several blocks away that was one of several pick-up points for the American evacuation. A copy of this photograph is available in an article written by the photographer for the New York Times.

punaise @ 54

George W. Bush Think Tank: a reservoir of intellectual prowess, flush with the resources needed to shepherd his legacy through these difficult times.

Channel his legacy through the locks of dilution as so much flotsam and jetsam on the tidal flows of fate?

bg @ 58

neurophius @ 57

bg @ 56

It will plumb the depths of the intellectual ressources that were the hallmark of his administration.

Bottoms up!!

The twins have come north?

I’m sure the writers at the George W. Bush Think Tank will be very a-commode-ating to his view of his own history.

Joe Scarborough is joining the MSNBC chorus of “Civil war.”

Suzanne @
22

Nice write-up in the Oakland (CA) Tribune about the lead trial attorney, Joe Cotchett, in the Wilson’s civil suit.

“There’s no lawyer who has more of a go-for-the-throat, never stop, push, drive, squeeze mentality than Joe,” said George Corey, a Millbrae attorney who has worked with — and against — Cotchett. “All you have to do is be on the other side of the case, and you’ll find out. You’ll think he has five legs and 10 arms coming at you.”

Article also has a quote from Larry Johnson.

Thanks for that Suzanne, great article.

kirk murphy @
62
[snip by CHS — please don’t quote more than two other posts because it busts out our margins. Thanks much!]

punaise @ 54

The twins have come north?

They leave Argentina Thursday.

Jimmy Carter on Larry King. talking about Iraq, the ME and the Palestinians. None of CNN’s promos used the word “Palestinians.”

Wigwam @ 52

OT: a holdover from the last thread.

… Steve Gilliard sent me an old post of his yesterday that he’d written three years ago, about how Iraq could devolve into civil war. It would be almost funny if it weren’t so tragic — how come none of the Great Men of Washington could figure this out? Reprinted in its entirety with permission — JH)

It turns out that some of them had.

I attended a Christmas part in December 1990 where a friend who’d been called up to work at the Pentagon on the logistic preparations for Desert Storm told me that his friends in the CIA and State Dept. were desperately trying to figure out what would happen if we took out Saddam Hussein. Every option they’d come up with was grim with the most likely being a civil war followed by a Iranian dominance.

These people advised Bush’s father, who in 1998 wrote:

Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different–and perhaps barren–outcome.

My expectation is that the US invasion of Iraq will be viewed as an Iranian cat’s paw in the long run.
It is hard to see any stable future in the region without considerable influence from Iran (and Turkey).
We know who the losers are: The US and Iraw, but ultimately who will have gained?
Iran.
And what intelligence agency was Chalabi linked to?
Iran
And who propped Al Sadr up initially?
Iran
And what can the US realistically do?
Talk nice with Iran.
Encourage their Democratic tendencies.

George W. Bush Think Tank: a reservoir of intellectual prowess, flush with the resources needed to shepherd his legacy through these difficult times.

Drink tank.

It will plumb the depths of the intellectual ressources that were the hallmark of his administration.

Bottoms up!!

The twins have come north?

They leave Argentina Thursday.

Jimmy Carter on Larry King. talking about Iraq, the ME and the Palestinians. None of CNN’s promos used the word “Palestinians.”

routine zig maintenance. nothing to see here.

punaise @ 67

George W. Bush Think Tank: a reservoir of intellectual prowess, flush with the resources needed to shepherd his legacy through these difficult times.

Drink tank.

It will plumb the depths of the intellectual ressources that were the hallmark of his administration.

Bottoms up!!

The twins have come north?

They leave Argentina Thursday.

Jimmy Carter on Larry King. talking about Iraq, the ME and the Palestinians. None of CNN’s promos used the word “Palestinians.”

routine zig maintenance. nothing to see here.

Punaise - your work is always worth watching!

Please don’t forget the kids who will not have a very good Christmas morning. Give of your time and give of your purse if you are able.

In the zigs of Babylon, there was also nothing to see there.

No idols, no representations of anything. Just some altars without heads.

The is-this-a-civil war controversy seems a critical turning point for the Administration. They have been struggling with how best to maintain a continuing justification for the war — and hence, a justification for continued loss of US lives. The Scarborough discussion tonight is talking about the John Kerry quote, “. . . the last man to die for a mistake.” The panelists are all conservatives — odd ones to be sure (Joe, Buchanan and the TNR guy) — but still conservatives. They’re all saying the same thing. We can’t justify another death in support of the Bush/Cheney policy.

So Bush’s natural supporters are saying American soldiers are now being killed for no reason — or for a mistake made by an increasingly unpopular President and his even less popular VP. Joe Wilson’s concern can now be expanded: will the Bush/Cheney WH have to battle their way out of the WH and onto Marine One?

I don’t believe you will ever get Dear Leader and his personality cult to admit they “lost” a war… He will just smile and duck and weave and obfuscate and pretend to listen and lie and otherwise stall… which means that this does not end until Congress has the spine to cut the purse strings or until the Great Man gets impeached. Please tell me I’m wrong.

Bush cannot rehabilitate his image for me.

Even if he were to walk on water, I’d laugh at him for not knowing how to swim.

Turds float.

President Carter. On King. Can you believe this man! I love him.

a compendium of initial exercises from various Late Nite contributors last night:

Incongruous
Realpolitik
Assuages
Qualms

I
Remember
Another
Quaqmire

I
Really
Am
Queered off about this nonsense.

Incumbent
Rear echelon
Assholes
Quiver

I as a good and godly Christianist
Really do want to be
A
Quiverfully responsible mudderfodder

Ill-considered
Racket
Abets
Quandary

I‘ll bet
Ridiculous assholes
Are running this
Qountry

Imperial
Regret for
Actions
Quixotic

Idjits
Regurtitating
Awful
Qualifications

Oklahoma kiddo @ 75

President Carter. On King. Can you believe this man! I love him.

Can you imagine anyone wanting to hear what George W. Bush has to say 25 or 30 years from now?

TRex @
31

Argentina to Bush sisters: GET OUT NOW!!

That might be worth a Late Nite post.

Oh, yes, please, perhaps a call to W from US Ambassador to Argentina Earl Anthony Wayne, who started work in BA less than a month ago:

I didn’t sign on to watch these twins!

neurophius @ 77

Oklahoma kiddo @ 75

President Carter. On King. Can you believe this man! I love him.

Can you imagine anyone wanting to hear what George W. Bush has to say 25 or 30 years from now?

I doubt he will live that long, or if he does he will be totally pickled and hidden from sight.

It is beyond painful for anyone to go down the road of “last one to die for nothing.”

I heard this from a voter when I was doing d-t-d. She was voting to “stay the course” and was very upset when I said the soldiers were dying for nothing.

W is totally staked in this mud. It is not possible for him to admit it is a waste, now or ever.

Those of us who opposed it from before it started and have opposed it every minute since, well, nothing from nothing leaves nothing. A total effin’ waste.

The Iraq Study Group is essentially being fronted by the Bush Crime Family’s mob lawyer, James “The Fixer” Baker. He is not a diplomat, he is a mob lawyer.

Remember when Nixon was elected in 1968 and said he had a “Secret Plan” to end the war? And it took another 7 YEARS to end.

Well, Jim “The Fixer” Baker is going to say basically the same thing this time around, probably to stall the war ending for the same 7 extra years. What a shocking surprise.

Joe Wilson is spot on in his ominous assessment of ‘retreating’ in a battlefield situation. It is very dangerous. Think for a moment about being in the last thousand men left in Bagdad. You have no backup except for airpower. Which does not always workout well in close quarter fighting. You end up just about having to call airstrikes down on your own position.Very scary stuff. You had better have some kind of agreement with the locals or they will massacre you to the last man, like Custer, no shit. Often times, angry folks on the other side really want to get in their last licks on you, vengence wise.

I remain convinced to this day that Kissinger had just such an understanding from North Vietnam for our final retreat from the embassy rooftop in 1975. It was humiliating enough without having to worry about the spectacle of your last troops being killed in front of the camera.

punaise @
36

TRex @ 31

Argentina to Bush sisters: GET OUT NOW!!

That might be worth a Late Nite post.

“Don’t cry for me, our Jenna ‘n twinna”

Top Ten, p.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 75

President Carter. On King. Can you believe this man! I love him.

Poor Larry nearly had another attack when Jimmy mentioned resolution 242.

TSF! :~)

neurophius @ 76

Oklahoma kiddo @ 75

President Carter. On King. Can you believe this man! I love him.

Can you imagine anyone wanting to hear what George W. Bush has to say 25 or 30 years from now?

It is hard to understand, but there are 25%-30% of the public who idolize George Bush, and probably always will.

From Mac, just above, a Freudian typo:

We know who the losers are: The US and Iraw, but ultimately who will have gained?

There are also lots of people, even here in Georgia, who really dislike Jimmy.

scarecrow @ 85

neurophius @ 76

Oklahoma kiddo @ 75

Can you imagine anyone wanting to hear what George W. Bush has to say 25 or 30 years from now?

It is hard to understand, but there are 25%-30% of the public who idolize George Bush, and probably always will.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 37

I ask again; what do the ‘first twins’ do exactly?

They are practicing having a silver spoon in their mouths so that they too can run for president one day.

Digby is back. And in Excellent Form.

raven @ 87

There are also lots of people, even here in Georgia, who really dislike Jimmy.

scarecrow @ 85

neurophius @ 76

It is hard to understand, but there are 25%-30% of the public who idolize George Bush, and probably always will.

why?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0.....60,00.html

Twins sacrificing for their country in time of war… Bush family tradition:– screw up for the first 30 years of your life, then find God :p

TeddySanFran @
78

TRex @
31

I didn’t sign on to watch these twins!

MsAnnaNOLA @ 88

Oklahoma kiddo @ 37

I ask again; what do the ‘first twins’ do exactly?

They are practicing having a silver spoon in their mouths so that they too can run for president one day.

Argent Twinna

The only way things might get better is if Bush and Cheney step down and someone else apologizes to the world for what they have done.

scarecrow @
85

neurophius @ 76

Oklahoma kiddo @ 75

Can you imagine anyone wanting to hear what George W. Bush has to say 25 or 30 years from now?

It is hard to understand, but there are 25%-30% of the public who idolize George Bush, and probably always will.

The same percentage in Germany idolized Hilter after the war, and still do to this day.

neurophius @ 77

Oklahoma kiddo @ 75

President Carter. On King. Can you believe this man! I love him.

Can you imagine anyone wanting to hear what George W. Bush has to say 25 or 30 years from now?

Maybe. We have to see how his $500 million library/amusement park/petting zoo turns out

scarecrow @ 84

It is hard to understand, but there are 25%-30% of the public who idolize George Bush, and probably always will.

Yeah I know those people, too. For them the idiotic phrase, “He has to do what he has to do to keep America safe,” has wound itself inextricably into their double helix. They physically can’t think outside those terms. It is religion to them. I don’t get it either.

1,340 dayz and the killin; goez on and on and..

Citizen oklahoma kiddo:

I too want accountability and I think we’re gunna get it but it’s gunna be messy and maybe a bit bloody in the streets but we’re gunna get answers. The wheels are comin’ off both in Iraq and domestically VERY rapidly…the fascist war machine and it’s domestic political machine are made outta paper mache and the election broke both open like a pinata.

The biggest threat to getting public accountability is in this next month and 2 weeks before the new sheriffs get their badges. The corporatists will be tryin ta frame the debate and present Pelosi and Reid with limited choices and the 5th column of Rahm, Chuck Schumer, Mrs. Clinton and Joe Likuderman will be workin’ VERY hard to close windows of opportunity for the new leadership before they ken take power.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!

punaise @
36

TRex @ 31

Argentina to Bush sisters: GET OUT NOW!!

That might be worth a Late Nite post.

“Don’t cry for me, our Jenna ‘n twinna”

Punaise, you are freakin brilliant

petedownunder >

…as I recall the exit from Saigon was pretty hairy…

as has been noted the hairy part was not about our troops leaving (most of them were long gone) but the mass of people that had assisted us and hung around till the bitter Kissinger end hoping to be saved.

Marine General Chesty Puller had one of those “adventures” that is worth noting & learning from.

Mack >

My expectation is that the US invasion of Iraq will be viewed as an Iranian cat’s paw in the long run.
It is hard to see any stable future in the region without considerable influence from Iran (and Turkey).
We know who the losers are: The US and Iraw, but ultimately who will have gained?
Iran.
And what intelligence agency was Chalabi linked to?
Iran
And who propped Al Sadr up initially?
Iran
And what can the US realistcally do?
Talk nice with Iran.
Encourage their Democratic tendancies.

And behind Iran those that care to look will find this fine trustworthy group

“For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill” - Sun Tzu

Blub @ 92

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0.....60,00.html

Twins sacrificing for their country in time of war… Bush family tradition:– screw up for the first 30 years of your life, then find God.

I thought it was more like 40 years.

I’ve listened to Ambassador Wilson talk. He talks like a really good car mechanic. No matter how complex and technical the problem is, and how completely ignorant of the involved malfunctioning components I am, the explanation is reasonable and understood.

It sort of underlines how bad the situation is when someone like Ambassador Wilson wonders out loud if withdrawal turns to retreat and then to a rout.
I missed this on Driftglass the first time. It was re-posted:

So you want to know how this Liberal views Iraq?

Take a look at the sickening image that came roaring out of our collective unconscious and onto our televisions on 9/11: a human being confronted with two choices too terrible to contemplate — leap into oblivion or be roasted alive.

And once in the air, whatever intentions or dreams or hopes or beliefs this poor bastard might have had became irrelevant. Flapping their arms didn’t matter. Prayer didn’t matter.

Once in the air, the Cold Equations were all that mattered. Once in the air, my fellow human being became a physics demonstration; an object on a downward arc governed by the Laws of Science that the Republicans hate so very much.

That, you despicable little stooge, is EXACTLY how Iraq looks to me.

On the heels of our greatest modern national trauma, the President and his minions shrieked and bellowed, roared and raged that there was a conflagration at our backs. That we were all in immediate, lethal danger from a massive, murderous attack by Saddam Hussein and that if we didn’t act right now we were fucked.

Mushroom-cloud fucked.

much, much more. Ammo for me against rightards at work.

There is a lot of talent packed in them innernets toobs.

Well, recall that we broke all the trends and stayed Republican except for phony right-winger Dems like John Barrow. Many people in Georgia see him as weak at best and looney at worst. I’ve lived here 22 years and this is nothing new. Their idea of a Democrat is Zell Miller, that abiut sums it up.

why?

OFG, doesn’t Drifty just make your socks roll up and down? Dreamy writing {{swoon}}.

JC, “Time to get back on the peace track”!

Carter quietly and gently tells Dershowitz to STFU.

good.

The Peace Train must move forward.

“It is hard to understand, but there are 25%-30% of the public who idolize George Bush, and probably always will.”

I met a traveler from a mideastern land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read,
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed,
And on the pedestal these words appear:
“My name is Bush forty three, Decider of Things:
Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

-Percy Bysshe Shelley (mostly)