
(Via Atrios/Josh Marshall, we learn that "NBC has made an editorial decision to start calling the situation in Iraq a 'civil war'." Steve Gilliard sent me an old post of his yesterday that he'd written three years ago, about how Iraq could devolve into civil war. It would be almost funny if it weren't so tragic — how come none of the Great Men of Washington could figure this out? Reprinted in its entirety with permission — JH)
How Iraq could devolve into Civil War
Iraq is clearly suffering a period of disorder, the question is will it shift into civil war?
I am not predicting a civil war. What I am saying is that there will be signs of a country slipping into civil war which should be clear. I don't know what will happen. Maybe the exiles and the US can build peace. I certainly hope so, because the alternative could be a catastrophe for both Americans and Iraqis.
* A lack of respect for civil institutions
The looting of hospitals is a bad sign. Taking things from a hospital, which is designed to help people, is not only mere greed. It is the suggestion that there is no respect for civil authority. Most people will loot a store or a government office, but a hospital? That's more than just greed. It means the people doing the robbing are either criminals looking to add to their loot, crazed teenagers, or people looking to create dependency on another source of power. Which is scary beyond belief.
The US military's easy going attitude towards the looting was amazing and amazingly self-destructive. It sends a message that they will not oppose groups of Iraqis breaking the law. This will not be seen as tolerance, but weakness.
* Rape and home robberies
There are reports of both according to the BBC in Basra and I can expect the same in Baghdad. That's the trigger to building home arsenals and then developing local militias. People will protect their families from harm. And this is where charismatic leadership starts. The former Iran-Iraq War vet who beats a looter with his bare hands then becomes the local hero, starts gathering men around, and acquires a base of power.
Sound familiar? That's how the Taliban started in Afghanistan. The local warlords were pulling out teenagers and raping them and robbing the truck drivers. The locals, not into seeing their boys raped, formed a band of guerrillas. The rest, as they say, is history.
* The US Authority is slow to get off the ground
Iraq had a state-run economy. Most Iraqis depended on the state for food and work. Without a viable state, they will be able to get neither. That means illness and starvation. Starving, ill people will look to leadership from any quarter. The only way to prevent this is the timely delivery of security and food, water and healthcare.
*Factionalism starts to grow
We already have the indications of factionalism. The murder of an exile Shia cleric is a hint that the locals are not eager for their brethren to return home and start running things. Many of these exiles have been gone for decades. But the thing which could be worrisome is when the exiles start to gather local gunmen.
What could be a real problem is when the INC meets and Ahmed Chalabi starts to take a major role. The SCIRI, the largest and best armed of the exile groups, is clearly not interested in any role in an American-led occupation government. Its leader, Ayatollah Hakim Al-Bakir, has told anyone who asks that he would resist a US occupation. The murder of two Shia clerics, while not tied to him, could be a hint of what is to come.
The Kurds have two parties, the KDP and PUK, each who occasionally fight with each other. Both now occupy Kirkuk. Only one has agreed to leave. The US is promising to get them both to leave. There is no guarantee the US can make that happen. If the PUK leaves and the KDP doesn't, that's going to make one group look like a sucker.
Meanwhile, the Turks are watching and will invade if they have to. This is the key national security issue for Turkey. They will not tolerate a Kurdish state and if Iraq is slipping, they may feel obliged to move.
* Anti-Americanism coalesces into a coherent movement
It's one thing to have individuals come up to Marines saying go home. It's another to have a crowd marching saying that. Once you start to have groups come together over a central theme-opposing American power-you will be creating the circumstances for various groups to start funding these efforts. The Arab world is desperately unhappy about the US invasion. It would take very little for money to flow from one bank account to another.
The first signs of real trouble and things could get ugly quickly from here is if Shia clerics, remember Shias are 60 percent of the country, declare that their people must oppose the US. Once that moral and religious grounding is established, opposition will explode because it will be justified to the majority of people.
Money means power. It means you can get and keep an army functioning. The disappearance of the Iraqi Army means there are hundreds of thousands of trained, led men who could appear to bolster an anti-American movement clandestinely. The US intelligence would be slow to pick this up and could only realize it exists after a massive street march, where the kids march first and the hard men come behind, with AK's and RPG's in their hands. A naked challenge to US power could result in a bloody embarassment. The lack of social order and a police force would place crowd control in US hands. And with the widespread distribution of gasmasks and chemical suits, tear gas would simply be pointless.
Remember, both Syria and Iran need the US to fail. They could be ready sources of revenue for anti-Americans ready to act. Keep in mind, the Iraqi Army is in hiding. Even if they went home, they didn't just disappear. Their commanders can find them if they need to.
* The factionalism turns to violence
It will start small. Assassinations, maybe a shoot out or two in a distant province away from direct US control. Maybe a US official or an exile. Then the killings move to mob-style violence, car bombs, gunfights, kidnappings, murders. As the pace of the killings grow, you start to see organized formations. Maybe 1000 men, maybe 1500. They start to use heavier weapons, rockets, mortars, machine guns in their internecine battles. Neighborhoods, then towns, start to fall into disorder. Local militias now control the area. These areas start to spread. Instead of the looting and raping you see now, you see nothing but order. You don't steal a loaf of bread in these areas. People who do, get killed, publicly.
This means that there are now local groups who can provide a coherent opposition to the US.
* There are moves to consolidate power
The groups grow, they bump up against each other, they keep killing. And then they choose sides. A group of Shia decide to openly challenge the occupation government and declare their own rule, the Kurdish parties start in against each other, the INC collapses and the wild card, Saddam supporters decide to throw their lot in with the Shia and reveal where their weapons are. The Army splits along ethnic lines and you have the Sunni divisions and Republican Guard against the Shia units and the generals decide to join one group or the other.
Now, some of these signs may blend together, but briefly put, the signs of civil war are when disorganized opposition becomes organized around a central theme and players with money and weapons join the cause. A civil war is organized killing, not just looting. I don't think Iraq is close to it, yet. But things can go either way. The INC can be accepted. Or it can be rejected violently. It depends on how and if the US can organize and feed the people.
If they can't, then these other factors can come into play. There are too many guns and too many players and unless the US can pay them off and bring order, people will create order and not in a way we would prefer.
Related posts:
- Mike Lux: “Triggering” A Democratic Civil War
- Uh, Which Civil Liberties Groups Pushed For A ‘Prolonged Detention’ Executive Order?
- McCain, Lieberman Schooled on Rule of Law by Kris, Johnson
- Lieberman to Whip Up Anti-Muslim Hysteria With Homeland Security Hearing on Fort Hood Shooting
- Rush Limbaugh: Sotomayor is a Threat to Republicans’ Civil Rights





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FITZ!
and JANE!
“How Iraq could devolve into Civil War” ‘could’?
Steve,
Three years ago you wrote this? Hmmm . . .
I’ve got this little pension investment that I’d like to grow into something larger in, say, the next three years. Could you look into that crystal ball of yours and give me a few tips?
check this out;
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/…..on-cheney/
crawford thinks cheney is about to resign
oh still my heart
Bait-n-Switch Joe… wait about 1/2 an ‘FU’, and he’ll be calling it “the inevitable Civil War” he talked about in 2002. In his closet. To his socks. With the door closed. But he talked about it.
McCain is a bigger fool than anyone. He could have been the guy who saw the light, and held the door open for the 1600 Crew to escape through, but now he’s sealed his legacy, with his support for this war (and talk of escalation) that’s so Vietnam, John. His “Straight Talk Express” has now become the “Bullshit Cab Company” where every ride is between Talking Points and every fare goes to CheneyBurton.
These two make quite the pair. Of Matching Idiots.
McCain/Lieberpud in 08!
Funny how those two have found each other in these dark times. They need a new pony to ride off together into the sunset. Maybe a presidential run would suffice, as has been rumored.
Civil War. They own it. Can Appomatox be far behind for these losers?
How the planet could devolve into world war. A global inferno? Well, at least this could propel global warming and health care etc. into non-issuedom.
And if Gee-Dubya or his defensive Poppy think our brave Marines and military are fighting for the honor of Gee-Dubya or McCain-LIEberman, they’ve another think coming.
They’re doing their duty for their country, for the honor of the Marines and the Army.
The Big Fools who want to push on…may they burn in hell.
Bush’s legacy wordsmiths can spend a gazillion dollars on Faux News propaganda or gazillion-dollar presidential libraries and they cannot ever erase the truth. George W. Bush is the Worst. President. Ever. Smallest, too.
Poppy spawned a monster.
And since we’re in a prescience mode, I’ll predict it’s less than six months before LIEberman is disowned and scorned by both Dems and Repubs.
Bit NOLA @ 7
so THAT’S the pony under the pile of shit that kid keeps digging for!
got it
Lou Dobbs says that the company who built part of the border fence was hiring illegal aliens…
rwcole @ 11
Irony? We got your irony right here, baby!
Jo Fish @ 6: word up!
rwcole @ 11
Hired using Tom Tancredo’s Cell Phone, no doubt. Is there anything that these folks do that does not reek of hypocrisy?
hispanic group threatens to out Lou Dobbs as a closeted illegal alien.
rwcole @ 11
Have you been to any construction sites recently? There is nothing that gets built in America without illegal alien labor in the last 6 years.
perris -5
If Cheney resigned wouldn’t such a circumstance clear the way for Fitz to aggressively pursue sworn testimony through a vigorous discovery process?
“oh still my heart” – ditto!
;~)
McCain/Lieberman. Clinton/?
The “Cheney resigns” story is in the category of absolutely unbridled idle speculation- don’t get too excited.
Lieberman. Gawdammit. I’m getting pissed.
The rude pundit is awesome today. Send the bodies to the neocons.
newspaperbrat @ 17
bush is going to have nothing to loose by pardoning whoever he wants, so that’s still on the table
on the other hand, bush is finally beginning to blame cheney for all that has been wrought
I’ll tell you what;
if bush throws cheney under the bus, gives him up for prosecution, this will actually make me think he earned no impeachment
cheney is the pupetteer…are the marionettes ready to revolt?
let’s hope
rwcole @ 19
we live in a world of nothing is impossilbe us progressives…
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 16
BUWAHAHAHA!!!
Senator Lieberman. Senator Clinton. Do you think there’s been any phone calls between these old friends in say the last week or so?
rwcole @ 11
That must be some existing fence, not the new wingnut fence, ’cause they didn’t bother to vote the money for that one, just passed an electioneering bill saying they were gonna build it.
perris @ 22
Pass the popcorn.
Newt chimes in: Victory or Death. So what is he smoking?
President Jimmy Carter is going to be on CNN’s Larry King tonight.
Perhaps he’ll take our dems to task for their condemnation of his calling the Israeli’s treatment of the Palestinians… apartheid.
Truth.
(Pelosi and Conyers called him on it and Archbishop Tutu agreed with Jimmy years ago)
I heard that Cheney got a gig as a foreman on the border wall project.
Redshift @ 26
Details. Details. Must we be mired in details?
RevDeb @ 28
I still like Hillary/Newtie in ‘08.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 32
So who are the Dems. going to run?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 32
A homeland for the Palestinians. Now.
RevDeb @ 28
Newt Dust?
RevDeb @ 33
we have to run gore feingold..we have to
gore wants to run but he wants it to look like he was forced into it…a mandate
a la ceasor refusing the crown, we have to draft the man and give him what he wants
Newt don’t smoke an he don’t chew
an he don’t go with the girls who do!!!
The term ‘civil war’ has always struck me as being damn near an oxymoron. ‘Uncivil war’ would seem to me more descriptive.
Iraq is a failed state that has devolved into the kind hellish society depicted in Mel Gibson’s Mad Max movies.
This is another instance of Bush and Rove losing control of the narrative. Still it was a pretty impressive performance. After the disaster of the CPA, the insurgency, the increased attacks on Shi’ites culminating in the February bombing of the mosque in Samarra, and the first large scale Shi’ite backlash, they have danced and dodged, bobbed and weaved, avoiding the dreaded words. Nevertheless, even after holding Iraq in their grasp for 3 1/2 years, the result, envelope please, is civil war. Civil war is the last nail in their coffin of failure. It is something they can’t fix. It is something they can’t even pretend to fix. A civil war has to be settled by the Iraqis themselves. It is for this reason that I disagree with Kofi Annan that we are trapped in Iraq. The truth is it is the Iraqis, those who don’t have the money or the means to leave, who are trapped there. We can get out, and should.
Gore/Clark. Dream ticket. Gore/Feingold. Edwards. Attorney General. Clark/Pelosi
Jimmy Carter’s new book is a quick and edifying read. Utterly fair-minded, from my perspective.
Hey Jane, how about getting President Jimmy on board for one of our Sunday book chats?
rwcole @
38
Newt was smote ’cause he didn’t eschew
Oklahoma kiddo @ 41
you would rather clark over feingold?
feingold has earned his keep, that’s for sure, he was the first democrat to stare down cheney’s throat
I love feingold
ralphbon @ 42
That man is prolific and smart and fair.
And he takes care of elections all over the world and of regular Americans by building homes for the poor and displaced.
He and his wife– a very good pair of Americans.
Why don’t we use the term BLOODBATH for what is happening in Iraq? No need to argue over meaningless terms.
perris @ 44
But he’s pretty well ruled himself out of this battle. I love him too, but we need to get behind someone who doesn’t need to be dragged into the battle. YMMV.
RevDeb @ 47
I wonder how this is working out?
http://www.commondreams.org/he…..130-07.htm
ralphbon @ 42
That would be nice. President Carter does do Paula Dean on Food Net. occasionally. I love this man! I voted for him twice. I am so very proud to say.
perris @ 44
So do I!!!
RevDeb @ 47
sorry about the repost, but I out my response in the quote.
anyway, feingold offered himself again after he took himself out of consideration
I really do want it to look like we insist on our candidates rather then they campaign to be president
it’s like campaigning to be good looking, you don’t campaign for it, you are chosen
jimmy carter — good idea.
Emptywheel has some Fitzgerald and Judy news.
Sorry, not Plame goodness. Saudi coverup?
jane hamsher @ 53
Oh please, please, please!
YAY!
does anyone think teh fitzster would consider the post as attorney general?
perris,
I hadn’t heard that he was back in the game. Agreed that it is better that we choose them, but i don’t want to see us wasting our time and energy on someone just to be rebuffed. It’s gotta be a 2 way thing.
jane hamsher @ 53
my gawd…could you?
if you can do that you can get the big dog too..I don’t care if he doesn’t have a book out, tell him to talk about the one he’s planning on writing
Not a single politician of either party has yet declared that we have lost in Iraq. How long will that take, and who will it be?
perris @ 56
We can dream, can’t we?
RevDeb @ 57
Veritas78 @ 59
Hagel came pretty durned close.
Sure, it’s a weightless comment but do either of the illustrated individuals actually merit any attention or recognition whatsoever? Or perhaps, I wish they could STFU from here on out?
The Strident CentristBlog Archive Predicting Civil War In Iraq – In April, 2003 @ 64
that’s quite a find…did you post it back in their faces?
1,340 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON ADN ON AND..
Citizen rwcole:
The speculation about Chaney is, as you say, jest speculation…but if we’re gunna try and be ahead of the train of events we’re gunna hafta speculate quickly ‘cuz the engine is pickin’ up speed. Things are unravelin’ faster and faster with each day and the official response is no longer centrally coordinated or coordinatable. Each faction has it’s own dynamic and it’s own connection to the official organs of communication…so that’s how ya get Chris Mathews arguin’ with a political “reporter” (hack) about a VP resignation while Noron is callin’ the war officially a “Democrat problem” and the Wall Street Journal tries ta frame the healthcare options for the new Congress.
The unraveling of the administration is goin’ to closely parallel the unravelin’ of Iraq except that Iraq is gunna be much more organized as civil war coalesces and organizes the factions. The factions in our domestic politics are gunna proliferate and there is NOT gunna be an organizing element or force until after the new Congress convenes and the confrontation between the legislative and executive plays out when BushChaney defies the subpoenas.
Politics in Washington, DC is gunna look more’n more like downtown Baghdad until the Supreme Court or impeachment and resignation determines the locus of power.
We’re in for the biggest political crisis in our country’s history since our own Civil War and the only thing that may save us is that there isn’t a credible father (or mother) figure to unite the factions.
KEEP THE FAITH AND WATCH EACH OTHER’S BACK…
100% support for the President Carter idea.
Luv the photo of the “Righteous Brothers”!
Having met and had several verbal fist fights with Captain McCain and only watched from a distance Dino Leiberman, I have come to the conclusion that they both are nothing more than pompus windbags who have sold their souls to the highest bidders. Neither of them deserve an iota of respect.
John McCain is an asshole in private life, or is it when he is outside the USA on vacation that his true visage appears? No John, I called you an arrogant fuck on Bora Bora, years ago and from what I have seen of you here in the United States, you are still the same piggish arrogant fuck as before… You deserve to be teamed with Joe Sore Looser Lieberman, the two of you remind me of twin sons with different mothers.. Neither of you have either the balls or the courage to stand up and fight these fascist sons of bitches in power.. Both of you have been kissed and dissed by lil Chimp and his master lil Dick the heartless one… If the Repiglican Party has a hall of shame, I am sure that you both deserve to be among the Creme de la Creme ensconced in those hallowed halls. I hope that you both run for office together, I would love to see you both go down in flames, never to return to a seat in power.. No John, your father was a good man, I had nothing but admiration and respect for him. For you, I feel nothing, you are nothing more than a political hack, like most repigs and like your new found love Joe Looserman…
Just this old chief’s 2
EPU’d
Margot @
96
Margot, not to worry!! You do have some very valid points. I’m going to guess you were part of the nursing staff. The nursing staffs don’t get nearly enough credit for what they do and they really aren’t paid enough.
I technically work for the State and compared to my last place of employment, it was a step up in the world. At the previous place, I would have said the same things you did in your previous post. Those that work ‘in the trenches’ end up on the short end of the stick.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 41
Gore/Edwards, Secretary of
Defense Clark, Attorney General Feingold, Kucinich Secretary of Department of Peace and whatever Pelosi desires.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 66
do you have in mind who this patriarch might be?
will a hero rise?
Calling darkblack:
Methinks a Brokeback Jack and Joe is in order.
Anyone who had been paying attention and doing the reading assignments in history class didn’t need a soothsayer to predict what would happen in Iraq. “Mission Accomplished,” Jerry “The Proconsul” Bremer’s edicts ANNNDD THEY’RE OFF!! At that point, the Peter Principle took over in the administration and they’ve been trying to collect water in a sieve ever since. The clowns at the Joint Chiefs and CENTCOM just can’t figure out why carpet bombing didn’t work and these resistance fellas just keep coming out of the rubble. There’s just no arguing with a fool.
Cheney’s ego would never let him resign. His dream is the unitary executive with him the man behind the throne. Here’s a man willing to sacrifice no end of human lives for his delusions. Resign? Not in my lifetime. January, or shortly thereafter, 2009 he’ll be appointed/elected to the board at Halliburton.
Impeachment? Waste of time and money. Tried as war criminals? Worth every minute and penny. What time does the German prosecutor’s office open on 20 Jan 09? Presidential pardons don’t mean squat there.
“We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will not leave you in peace.” Leaflet #4, White Rose non-violent resistance movement, Munich, 1942-43
Never give up.
RevDeb @
33
Both the Dems and the Repubicans will run politicians who aren’t currently members of the Senate. Both will most likely be governors. Richardson will most likely get the Dem nod.
Both party’s candidates will be lukewarm on campaign finance and ethics reform, curbs to large corporations and tax reform for the middle class. Both will play meaningless lip service to medical practice reforms. Both will be among the strongest supporters of Israel in American politics.
Ed*ard Teller @ 74
Then I might as well shoot myself now and get it over with.
Ken Jackson at 3:54 thanks very much for a great, great rant.
If we think outside the triangle, we have so many good Demos. We have Gore, Clark, Pelosi, Edwards, Feingold, elder-statesman Carter, and so many more.
SouthernDragon @ 73
begging to differ.
it would not be a waste in any sense of the word, it would be a moment in time where the world would recognized that Americans are not responsible for what this administration has done.
it would help unite the great divide cheney and bush brought to the world
Oklahoma kiddo @ 50
Me too, twice.
perris @ 71
Bobby:
OK kiddo–
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._1127.html
heading home from foxwoods, won’t see anyone for at least a few hours, if at all tonight
g’night firdogs
Watching West Wing re-run. Cj is going to do “the Jackal.”
Oh for such a White House.
1,340 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen perris:
The only thing that may save us is that there ISN’T a credible father (or mother) figure to unite the factions…that means that DEMOCRATIC constitutional mechanisms are gunna hafta play out in lieu of a “strongman” and out of the messy process of DEMOCRACY will come the new leadership.
For my money, impeachment and resignation of BOTH Bush and Chaney is the best scenario, with Nancy P rising to the Presidency for one day in order to nominate Al Gore VP and then resign when he is approved by acclamation. Nancy ken then run in the special election for her old seat and retain the Speakership.
Under this scenario, we would get 10 years of Al Gore to straighten things out. (Al Gore and Bill Clinton anyone?)
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE POPCORN…
RevDeb @
75
I’d hold off on that, RD…Richardson might not be that bad.
We could ask former president, author and Nobel Peace Prize winner Jimmy Carter who he thinks will be our next presidental candidates.
Alas, every time any pup suggests we bring him on here for Book Salon or something special, the management turns a very cold shoulder and fails to respond.
The comparisons between apartheid South Africa and Israel have been around for at least 20 years. It is a comparison that drives even moderate Israelis crazy. So you have to wonder why they keep evoking it in their policies. Apartheid is Afrikaans for “separation” and there the Israelis go building their Wall of Separation, but we are not supposed to draw any parallels.
Past comparisons of Israel and apartheid came from many countries with a colonial history. They had seen it all before: the disenfranchisement of the native population, the appropriation of natural resources, the willingness of the colonial power to deal only with those whom they had co-opted and the locals had rejected, the systematic elimination of authentic voices of opposition (deemed too radical), and the consequent shift to violence and true radicalization of the opposition (because all the moderates had already been destroyed).
In the Territories, we see enclaves separated, isolated, economically non-viable. We see a population with essentially no rights. We have a history of Israel refusing to negotiate with the PLO, then trying to destroy it once it was established in the West Bank, and when it wouldn’t do exactly what Israel wanted. The result has been Hamas, a more radical group, and one which the Israelis are again trying to destroy because again they aren’t willing to do as Israel says.
This will go on until the costs of colonialism become to high. The principal reason it has gone on as long as it has is subsidies which Israel has received both from our government and the American Jewish community. These have allowed Israelis to avoid the consequences of their actions and to continue to dream that they can have both peace and victory.
Note: Olmert’s speech today means nothing. The devil is in the details and he gave none. If he had come with maps and timetables, if he had announced a freeze on settlements and the building of the Wall, that would have been different. He didn’t.
angie @ 81
Gold star to you! Again. You amaze.
routine zig maintenance.
ET, see #53
Wo it’s tough to follow a zig. Maybe I’ll wait with my little news.
Ok here goes. If I have played my cards well, there will be one or more paid positions for bloggers at the Atlantic. Any nominations? Serious.
There are many really good men who, I believe, will run for President in the future. But maybe 2008 is too soon for each of them.
Howard Dean is still my hero for taking a stand despite unknowing the outcome; Spitzer in NY is courgeous and knows how to take the fight to the bad guys; Tester is new on the scene, but I like him from that ‘instinct’ place; Webb? not sure but he can talk the talk so far. Let’s see how he votes.
But as for 2008? No one, and I mean not one single person so far has struck me as totally capable of running the country with a strong hand and yet a compassionate heart. Maybe Clark, but he has many detractors.
egregious @ 90
Christy, Stoller, Gilliard, Digby, Greenwald
egregious @ 90
Taylor Marsh? (if interested)
jane hamsher @
53
OK, glad to see a wind shift! very glad…
egregious @ 90
Trex, Glen Greenwald, Digby, Emptywheel, Laura Rozen, Larry Johnson, Justin Raimondo
E. Teller – 84
I hadn’t noticed Jimmy Carter was persona non gratis around these parts….hmmmmmm….hard to imagine….sure it wasn’t his little brother?
Jimmy Carter at FDL?
I am giddy, oh so giddy!
egregious @ 90
Digby
Gillard
Christy
Barb at Mahablog
Lukery at wot is it good 4
Matt or Chris at MyDD
Glenn
Billmon
Georgia10 at Kos
jane hamsher @ 53
We’ve gotta think big for book salon. We are a prime intellectual audience, and we are the future.
People should be begging us to do their books.
Olbermann in 32.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 100
Tivo has my back every night for KO.
ralphbon @
42
I’m about halfway done with _Palestine Peace not Apartheid_. It is more insightful than his earlier _The Blood of Abraham: Insights into the Middle East_, but he writes a bit much like the Sunday School teacher we remember him as. It seems to be largely a distillation of speeches and talks he has given on this subject over the past three years.
Worth reading, though.
The magazine is brainstorming about how to get more onto the internet. Publisher is an old friend. I observe a large number of immensely talented but poverty stricken bloggers. Excelsior!
Help me think out loud about how this can be constructed. What about one major and/or several senior but not necessarily daily people…
Apparently fdl is the template for all things good :)
Hello, dear Firepups!
This has to be a hit-and-run post for now. You all may know about this already, but if not:
Tonight’s “American Experience” series on PBS features a 2-hour documentary on Robert F. Kennedy.
I guess it’s not a surprise that they time the showing of this to coincide with the film “Bobby.” I hope it’s well-done, as it will help amplify Bobby’s message (his final metamorphosis as someone determined to end war and poverty).
Check your local listings. Here in AZ it runs from 9 pm to 11 pm.
See y’all a.s.a.p. Love you guys!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 100
Olberman in ‘12 honey.
egregious @ 90
Digby, Greenwald. Best practitioners of “long-form” (as opposed to short-form, that would be Jane&Christy, CarpetBagger) interactive op-ed writing. I hate the term “blogger”. It’s a meaningless word, like “luxury”, or “designer”.
My 2 cents.
egregious @ 103
You’re right on that one!
egregious @ 99
Frank Rich, “The Greatest Story Ever Sold” is one I’d like to see.
That was weird.
Carter would be an interesting guest also for his reflections on Iraq. He happened to address a small group of faculty here the morning after the invasion. That (address) had been long planned, with another topic in mind. However, the invasion was on everyone’s mind. He did not mince words, at all, and prior to was on TV a lot.. counseling a more cautious course. He was very plain spoken and direct.
PeteCO @ 108
The line about Frank Rich was not written by me.
Extremely wonderful hardworking fdl tech people: hope that sometime in the future we can reset the comment cursor so that one’s response begins at the end, not the middle, of another’s quoted comment. Thanks! :)
[Mod Note; good suggestion & duly noted]
rwcole @ 11
Duh.
egregious @
110
You’d think with a big monitor I’d have caught that!
I look forward to Jimmy Carter’s reflections on Afghanistan too; I do remember his boycott of the Olymics because of the Soviet’s invasion of Afghanistan.
I think he’s been thinking for a long, long, time.
He has never been afraid to admit any mistakes and move his nation forward.
Jo Fish @ 6
I don’t know how long you have been commenting at FDL but I hope you will write more often. You have become a must read.
iowa christine @
69
Thank you, yes, you’re right about my lowly position on the totem pole (it was very very lowly indeed). I will try to vent outside first and then post, next time. ;)
angie @ 113
That’s why he only got one term. He told the truth, and people would rather listen to fairy stories.
Ed*ard Teller @ 94
FireDogLake=fanboy site for political geeks?!
egregious @ 103
Good idea. One chief and a rotating cast of regulars would be an ideal way for Atlantic to spruce up their long suffering Internet game overnight. Recruit from the lists provided above and pick your chief from someone in the list that would be a good managing editor type to lead the effort, coordinate schedules and everything. If you need a good podcaster thrown in the mix grab up Taylor Marsh to do a weekly show. I’d be happy to do any sort of music related columns or podcasts desired.
Perris @ 56:
Pat is completely apolitical, which probably rules him out for AG.
If a Democrat wins in 2008 (especially if it’s Hilary), watch for Mary Jo White (formerly the U.S. Attorney in Manhattan, now a partner at a big NY law firm) to be the AG. Unless Bayh wins — he could appoint his wife. ;-)
If a Republican wins in 2008, all bets are off — except that we know for certain that whoever it is will be worse than either Ashcroft or Gonzalez. Attorney General Ted Olson? John Yoo as head of OLC? Could happen.
Margot,
Please vent here first. You certainly won’t be the only one.
*cough*mirror
Our strength is the combination of intellect and passion. Go with it.
angie @
113
I wonder which president wrote the most – not the most books, but the most high quality material – after serving as President? This is Carter’s 20th book, though two were from before his presidency and some aren’t political.
I think Nixon wrote a dozen or more. My favorite single volume is Grant’s autobiography.
Billmon must have crawled back into his self-imposed obscurity – his site is post-free these days.
egregious @
103
Complete editorial freedom, I assume.
do Saint John’s eyes look extra crazed in that picture?
punaise @ 122
He said he was taking a hiatus and then Foley struck and he kept posting through the election. I think he finally took it.
punaise @ 122
Last post from him is from the 15th about Jim Webb. He seems to have these occasional blogging sabbaticals from time to time.
I think about the little newly minted orphan kiddos in Iraq crying, ‘I want my mommie’.
Ot but repug related.
Heat on Hastert land deal grows… Soon…
http://rawstory.com/
More investigatin’ goin on.
Heh Heh Heh.
Unscientific AOL poll at 7:56 pm EST:
How much confidence do you have in Bush?
None 67%
A lot 23%
A little 10%
Total Votes: 109,513
How effective will Bush be over the next several months?
Not at all 68%
Somewhat 18%
Very 14%
Total Votes: 108,942
Basement holding at 18-23%.
How long before JAR hits this level?
KO in L.A. tonight.
MayDaze @ 125
Sounds familiar. Sometimes people who run at a high energy/creativity level have to rest and/or crash to regain sanity. I know a guy who used to work and work and work and then go to the hospital to recover. Maybe we can improve on this model.
I tried a couple of times to take some serious time off starting in the summer but always got sucked back in by the next egregious political development. Perhaps I will burn brightly til the end. Or perhaps I will learn to step back and reflect.
These elections were critical. We have our walking wounded among us. I could say hope it was worth it, but ya know? It was. Those of us with children, nieces and nephews, neighbor children, anyone thinking about the future will see that November of 2006 was incredibly important. We turned back the tide.
Rayne @ 129
I’ve been in for 23 as of several months ago.
That is, Bush will hit 23% favorable. Hopefully just as he resigns.
PeteCO @
123
Thanks for your kind words upthread, E. And from an unemployed blogger (18 months now) any such thing would be immensely cool. Unfortunately, I am probably not suitable, since I don’t know a particle from a muon, but it would be fun! (’Murkan is my second lang-widge, Sailor-speak is my furst).
Oh, and I have been a long-time FDL’r, since back when Jane and I both got 200 hits/day. Now look how good she’s doing. I attribute it to better legs. Or something.
new thread.
this day in Iraq was as easy to see 4 years ago, as the sun at high noon on a cloudless day.
4 years hence…
2 years hence…
tomorrow…
not so easy to see, just a muddied fog of nothing.
the bushliar-criminal regime and the neocons have cut us loose from control of our own destiny; and thrown us to the fury of the fates. God help us we not receive that which we deserve.
.
Poor wretched Iraqis! We know why their country had to be decimated and why their people had to be killed, maimed and their wives and daughters raped. The question, however, is not whether Iraq will survive, but whether USRAEL will.
This McCain/Lieberman twosome conjecture is another daily dose of that filthy dirty Lieberman treachery. Is there any way in which this Lieberswine can be censured or recalled before he does futher damage to an already war wounded nation?