It's been evident for some time that Michael Ware has been covering a different war than Draft Dodgin' Joe Lieberman thinks he's waging. Ware doesn't seem to think things in the McCain/Lieberman war are looking so good:
KATHLEEN KOCH: Michael, the Iraqi government and the U.S. military in Baghdad keep saying this is not a civil war. What are you seeing?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, firstly, let me say, perhaps it's easier to deny that this is a civil war, when essentially you live in the most heavily fortified place in the country within the Green Zone, which is true of both the prime minister, the national security adviser for Iraq and, of course, the top U.S. military commanders. However, for the people living on the streets, for Iraqis in their homes, if this is not civil war, or a form of it, then they do not want to see what one really looks like.
This is what we're talking about. We're talking about Sunni neighborhoods shelling Shia neighborhoods, and Shia neighborhoods shelling back.
We're having Sunni communities dig fighting positions to protect their streets. We're seeing Sunni extremists plunging car bombs into heavily-populated Shia marketplaces. We're seeing institutionalized Shia death squads in legitimate police and national police commando uniforms going in, systematically, to Sunni homes in the middle of the night and dragging them out, never to be seen again.
I mean, if this is not civil war, where there is, on average, 40 to 50 tortured, mutilated, executed bodies showing up on the capital streets each morning, where we have thousands of unaccounted for dead bodies mounting up every month, and where the list of those who have simply disappeared for the sake of the fact that they have the wrong name, a name that is either Sunni or Shia, so much so that we have people getting dual identity cards, where parents cannot send their children to school, because they have to cross a sectarian line, then, goodness, me, I don't want to see what a civil war looks like either if this isn't one.
Lieberman now wants to create a "bipartisan working group" to find solutions to the mess he made, because "success in Iraq…is still attainable." Wouldn't it be shocking if they came to the same conclusion as the Iraq Study Group? Then we'd know it was the right thing to do, because these wise men obviously have the answers.



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Jane!
Gonna read tim downstairs, now.
hulloh!
outta here now.
Lieberman sux.
Mimikatz has a great post at the Next Hurrah about all of this too. Worth a read.
Lieberman’s a big assHOLE!
Jane, where do you keep finding all these photos of HoJo with McCain? Jeez, they must be joined at the hip (idealogically speaking, I mean).
I can’t help noticing that we still haven’t seen “success” defined or operationalized. Still, unless Holy Joe is defining it as the complete destruction of any possibility of stable government or meaningful public safety, I’m not seeing much right now that is “attainable.”
Lieberman wants a “bipartisan” panel – OMG! Which two parties will form the “bi” – R and CfL?
Michael Ware has been astonishing – and it’s interesting to see the CNN anchors shock when Ware reports – John King said after one of Ware’s reports “until now, it’s just been statistics” Precisely the problem – coverage of Iraq has been so dehumanized except for occasional coverage of american soldiers … so little notice of the suffering of Iraqis. Ware tells the real story – and it’s one we need to pay attention to.
There is no way anything is going to come of JoeLie trying to do anything to make this better. Who the H*ll is going to want to work with him on this? Or am I missing something?
Wow. There’s no stopping this guy. I went and read both McCain’s and Lieberman’s interviews and I think I need to down another chemo anti-nausea pill. What a pair. And why can’t Russert go for the kill? He gets the interviewee on the rope with his own previous quote, lets him deny saying what he was just quoted as saying…and Tim moves on.
That’s quite a little pie fight over at Kos. Can’t take that dino anywhere anymore.
Siun @ 7
KKG and the Tri-Delts?
marksb – I get so tired of these fools who cannot read satire … imagine what they would have said about J Swift?
Delusional pricks. I vote we send St. McCain back to the NVA and RG Joe kin go with him.
I say ‘delusional’ because within a year the sort of nonsense they are pedaling will so obviously be nonsense that the vast majority of Americans will be calling for the heads of those supporting this war….
…not just voting them out of office.
And frankly I believe numerous federal and international laws have been and continue to be broken by our government. This sort of stupid propaganda is all the warmongering fools of the Right have left.
‘Take Out the Trash’ and then Stop Playing Games! I deeply hope that Pelosi and Murtha are ready to act as the people have directed them to and…
Get. Us. The. Fuck. Out. Of. Iraq.
No more screwing around. Just do it.
It’s time to:
Hey – i was left down there mumbling to myself!
The bus Iraq is running amuck with no driver careening down the mountain totally out of control.
How do you change the course of the bus when no one has control of the situation?
The Iraqi government does not have control…
The Iraqi people do not have control…..
The US Military does not have control….
BushCo does not have control…..
McCain & Loserman want us to stay on the bus and enjoy the ride. McCain wants to stuff the bus with more …..
Joe Lieberman… Zell Miller without the accent… or WITH the accent, depending upon where you’re from…
Kathryn in MA @
13
I tried to mumble to you but for some reason got caught in mod. limbo. Didn’t even use any bad words.
I am still mystified that the majority of the people in Conneticut are so completely stupid that they kept Lieberman as their senator.Idiots.
ThatSinger @ 15
Zell at least had the miniscule grapes required to threaten to challenge Tweety to a duel. Holy Joe has yet to exhibit even that much courage.
Siun @ 11
Well on the tubez I note this:
See? “Beast-footed!” I mean, when you’re sixty foot and have a beast-foot, you’re probably gonna step on the occasional villager once in awhile. I guess it was the wrong villager this time. Good thing it wasn’t Bambi, we’d have the animal rights folks firebombing us.
RevDeb @ 16
Me too–I was there listening to both of you mumble back at me.
EvilDrPuma @
18
Joementum didn’t even have the GrapeNuts to require Lord Vader to stand for their debate…
ThatSinger @ 21
Hardly necessary, as it turned out. Joe was more than willing to get on his knees to fellate Cheney.
spazeboy @
20
We’ll try again. I posted this but it got caught in mod for some unknown reason:
Spazeboy,
I think at this point, the MA Ned posse is all planning to go to Chicago for the festivities. I can’t imagine that there would not be interest. Ned’s campaign was an inspiration to so many from all over who could not join in with us but wanted to.
We’ve got to get out more.
Popcorn time, from C&L:
“We’ve got to get out more”
Yes we do.
ThatSinger @ 15
This comment got me to thinking. What are the odds that Joe Lieberman will give a highly publicised speech at the Republicans 2008 convention the way Zell Miller did at the Republican 2004 convention?
Patrick Kennedy @ 26
What does he have to lose? Our respect?
Patrick Kennedy @ 27
I don’t think very high. When Zell did it the repigs were on the ascent. in 2008 they will be sliding into irrelevancy . . . hopefully. Joe does not want to be on the losing team, no how.
EvilDrPuma @ 22
ATTEMPTED to fellate Cheney…isn’t an erection required for actual fellatio?
Thanks for the visual…
(gouges out mind’s eye with pencil)…
This gas bag Lieberman has nothing to lose whether he acts to help stop the Iraq war or not. This ass hole is in. And besides, Lieberman is going to do whatever his case handlers tell him to.
The is someone who has a perhaps ‘big something’ to lose of she continues to support the Bush/Cheney/Lieberman slaughter.
I want out of Iraq. Goddammit!
Patrick Kennedy @ 26
I consider it a lock…
Only if McCain picks him as the VP candidate. He’d sing for that spot.
Okay, I’ve been trying to be inclusive in the holiday designs I’m coming up with, but every time I tried to come up with a Hannukah design using our cat, I got stumped. It just doesn’t lend itself to the obvious things like “Meowy Christmas” or “Santa Claws”. Anyway, I finally came up with something.
Michael Ware has been amazing as has Arwa Damon– no fluff from either of these fine reporters, no grins at all.
Deadly serious.
Like Dahr Jamail.
It means a lot to finally see some realistic reporting about the mess in Iraq on a major news channel. Michael Ware is the first correspondent on US television to really say “Civil War” and apply it to what has been going on for months in Iraq. Our nation needs his kind of reporting very badly. Ware’s work may very well help our new Speaker of the House get the job done on changing the course for our troops in Iraq.
There was a post by Elrod on the Moderate Voice on Thanksgiving that linked to a particularly rough video on police sponsored Death Squads that was shown on Channel 4 in the UK. The post is linked here
The link to the video is here.
It is a grim and well put together piece that is difficult to watch, and clearly reflects how we have truly lost it in Iraq and backs up what Ware has to say.
It’s pretty obvious that McCain and Lieberman just don’t get it. We need to get out of Iraq as fast as possible to prevent even more horrifying and serious damage.
Is there any way possible to force Lieberman to resign his seat if this bastard once again runs for VP?
angie @
34
Absolutely agree… Ware’s straight out of central casting… except he’s real…
RevDeb @ 28
You may be right but I don’t think we should underestimate Joe’s need to play the bipartisan martyr.
When it gets down to it, I think I dislike Lieberman even more than I do Bush.
countryjoe @
17
Agree.
Troops
Home
NOW
countryjoe @ 17
Joe only pulled 49.8%, so technically speaking, the majority of voters in Connecticut voted AGAINST him.
Sadly, there were three candidates instead of two…otherwise, the celebration might still be going on!
stagehands, could you please spring me? both here and at the end of the last thread? Don’t know what I did wrong.
Independent
Democrat
i
o
t
RevDeb @ 43
A woman of the cloth, using forbidden words? Harumph.
/snark
sprung f5 all
perhaps “losing team” is an automod trigger? *g*
kidding!
Are you telling me DeadEye was wrong back in June 2005?
OT, maybe Jimmy Baker ought to rename his ISG the Iraq SLOW-TO-CATCH-ON Group?
Connecticut Bob @ 42
I dislike it when anyone calls the people of one state or another stupid. If Lieberman had been a real Democrat, Ned Lamont would have been our new Senator. I want the Democratic party to NOT make life easy for Lieberman. I just can’t stand this individual.
Twisted Martini @ 46
methinks I needed to have writ Spa*eboy. It’s the only reason I can think of. And I’ve been know to use let us say “colorful” language. There was a line in “Inherit the Wind” when Drummond was chided for his swearing. His reply:
“Madame, there are damned few words in the English language that everyone understands. So I have to use them all.”
or something to that effect.
TeddySanFran @
47
merci.
Firedoglake questions the motives of Joe Lieberman and St. John McCain at its own peril.
-GSD
Now for something really unprintable: “unitary executive.”
Got a plea in the mail from NARAL yesterday with a free pen and everything. I sent the request back with a $0 and in the request for e-mail address (which was the only open space on the plea) I wrote:
“You lost my support for good when you endorsed Joe Lieberman”
end of story.
This morning my s.o. screamed at the teevee for the first time in a very long time.
“We lost, it’s over and it’s too late” and he yelled for the pundit to “shut up”.
(I left out the expletives).
I got tears in my eyes ’cause he took the words right out of my mouth and gave me a look at the ever- increasing rage that I feel and express every single day since this admin was selected in 2000. Though I am incredibly grateful that we took both houses, it is the creeping filth that is Lieberman and his pals that keep the rage alive.
People are dying and he holds the loaded gun and chuckles.
Ech. First thought that comes to mind. Bipartisan (HoJoe style) = ineffectual, and falls into the preznit’s ballpark.
Yipes.
Read this article from Al Jazeera about Darth Cheney of Arabia and tell me if it doesn’t look like these wretched fools are going to double down on Iran.
Exit Baghdad via Tehran?
-GSD
That is why the continued Netanyahu drumbeat and that from the other neo-con organs frightens me….It is so they can say “we warned you about Iran, now we have to do something.”
Help get our people out of Iraq, Senator Clinton. Won’t you please help to stop the killing? Help bring peace to the Middle East.
Connecticut Bob @ 43
My thoughts: it was just a weird election with “build a wall against the Mexicans” Schlesinger being just one of the weird elements. People who voted for HoJoe carried these crazy misconceptions with them to the poll: that Lieberman’s record and character were fine, that HoJoe was an “Independant like Lowell Weicker” and all the other kinds of misinformation that makes you want to *scream*. Some of those people were like brick walls.
OK, I looked at the MTP interview. Re a bipartisan approach to Iraq,
What a great idea and so original too. We already have Baker’s Iraq Study Group. Bush has put together an Administration one. Even the Pentagon has one. So Lieberman wants to add his own. Well, Bush’s speechifying (for inexplicable reasons) hasn’t won the war in Iraq so maybe all this commissionating will, ya think? And bipartisanship, yeah, there’s the ticket. After the Republicans wrote the book on partisanship and practiced it ruthlessly these last 6 years, now that they have screwed up and lost the election, it’s good to hear Joe talking about bipartisanship now. Of course, Lieberman’s view of bipartisanship is essentially a way of diluting Democratic power. First, we take some conservative Democrats, mix them with some even more conservative Republicans, and then add in the loons from the White House. Sound like bipartisanship to you? Sound like accountability? Sound like a way to address that voter unhappiness or is it a means to ignore it?
And speaking of changing that status quo, doesn’t the cure sound much like the disease? While Lieberman recognizes that the American people spoke, he is still hearing only what he wants to hear. In fact, it gets worse. Lieberman’s idea to change the status quo is to channel John McCain with a dash of Bush’s strategy for victory thrown in.
Not only is Lieberman a fool but a dangerous fool. His idea of getting out of Iraq is to dig our way out by making the hole even deeper.
Jay @ 61
What am I missing here??
Not much. I think it’s a troll, but it communicates so poorly that I’m not even sure of that.
I find it ironic that a former First Lady was seemingly so concerned with providing health care to all, and is now so callous and cavalier toward the health of American soldiers.
GSD, JMO, but I don’t think
prayso. I think Baker has convinced the GOP that Iran is not the axis of evil. Baker understands, I think, that Iran is the big winner and he wants to enlist their help incementing their winningsreining in the Shia.JMO, based on this diary Handicapping the ISG.
OT, Sunnis in Iraq still control the water, AFAIK.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 65
I think that was the last time I can remember Hillary Clinton sticking her political neck out for anything. The Republicans tried to chop it off, and since then she’s been running in an unadulterated triangulation mode.
Did Joe or anyone else in the administration ask how the Thanksgivings of the displaced and survivors of the dead of Katrina were???
How about the survivors of the dead/maimed soldiers or the families that have an empty place at the table because their loved one is on their third tour?
How about the Iraqi and Afghan Americans whose homelands are destroyed and whose relatives are being slaughtered?
no?
I thought not.
Great catch Hugh at 2:15.
CTBob, I saw the footage you have with Lieberman on Sean Hannity and wanted to pull my hair out.
For FDLers. That post of Bob’s is highly recommended for anyone with a strong stomachf or Lieberman’s sanctimonious whining and talking about what would “make” him switch Repubkklan.
I do not trust James Baker any farther than I can smell him. Which is at least half way ’round the world. And I still very much recall Baker’s chicanery in Florida at the end of the presidential election of 2000.
Jay @ 60:
Not a troll. It’s a trackback from a blogrolling post, not specific to this post but to the blog as a whole. Some software attaches it to the top post of the page, so you saw it here (tomorrow it may miraculously appear on whatever post is on top of the page). Sorry, but there is nothing I can do about it.
rwcole @ 33
Although I’m sure in Joe’s mind, it would be a Lieberman/McCain ticket…
Baker’s SBG-Short Bus Group
angie @ 56
Nah, angie, he holds the gun with a very affected sanctimonious look that hides his vile passive aggressiveness.
mui @ 74
you’re right.
The Palestinians have a right to a homeland. No if’s. No and’s. And no but’s. These people have a right to be accorded the same respect that we rightfully lavish on others in the region.
OkeeDokee
more here about Joe’s war. And it’s not pretty.
neurophius @ 72
I can’t imagine that McCain would do that even if he wasn’t in his right mind (& are we sure he is?), given the fact Lieberman is a Northeaster, and such a turnoff to the electorate. How did Tagaris phrase it? HoJoe inspires like a bag of warm vasline.
McCain COULDN’T nominate Lieberman unless he was behind in the polls and could convince the gooper faithful that it was the only way to win.
The Ware report last night. It was filled with anguish and out rage. You could feel the pain of all of Iraq. The idea that anyone could possibly image that things aren’t so bad is lunacy. The idea that Joe is lurking around in the shadows is scary. He is so self absorbed – it makes me fear he might do what he just did in 2008-Run as an independant for pres. He is delusional, or is he just an agent of his ancestors homeland in the middleast. As for Cheney-the only reasons to go to Saudi Arabia-Oil, Haliburton, and the Carlye Group- all self interests.
mui @ 78
I can’t imagine that McCain would want a heaping big pile of Joementum to help his chances along.
I believe that Joementum comes in steaming piles.
-GSD
EvilDrPuma @ 67
I saw Hill’s health care effort very differently. She sold out patients – and all Americans – at the start. Her programs were crafted to keep the insurers on board, not to help patients.
Same as Medicare D (designed from the start to help pig pharma and the insurance corps). Only difference is the Rethugs used their majority to push through Part D. Billary were too incompetent to use the Dems’ majority (’92-’94) to push Hill’s plan through.
Ever time I see a patient suffering from no insurance (or under-insurance) I think of Bill and Hillary Clinton and their wealth and power and multiple stately residences.
And I curse them and the corporations who own them.
How many millions of Americans have suffered, died, lost their parents, lost their spouse, lost their child, lost their home -all from Billary’s greed and ambition.
GSD @ 82
I defer to your most excellent point.
GSD @ 82
Would you like a nice glass of Joelaid to go with your Joementum?
http://rawstory.com/showarticl…..6EO00.html
and yesterday, Israel said no to an offer of cessation of rocket attacks by the resistance if they would cease military operations in Gaza.
Why isn’t Condi doing something???
GSD @ 82
Do you think his piles steam? What a really awful image. Wash brain. Rinse. Repeat.
Militant groups and Israel have agreed to a cease-fire in Gaza beginning at 6 a.m. Sunday, The Associated Press reports. (CNN)
Curious in Central Texas @ 88
Oh happy news! Thank you!
Wow that just broke!
Al Saddar says he’ll pull support for the Govt. I Miliki meets with Clusterfuck in Jordan..
Al Saddar doesn’t like Clusterfuck much.
Comedy Hour- with real guns.
Israel, Palestinians OK Gaza cease-fire 25 minutes ago
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..lestinians
This will solve nothing.
mui @ 69
mui, thanks. I actually had difficulty watching the entire show…there’s something about Joe’s fake “sincerity” that makes me feel like hurling the TV through the window. My wife wanted to know why I was screaming myself hoarse while watching it.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 91
Is it a start or will it lead to something else more productive?
It won’t solve anything, but maybe some precious lives will be spared for a bit.
;(
I have yet to see anyone lined up in blue or grey so for sure there is no civil war there! That is what it will take for these knuckleheads to understand what is going on here…
Actually it is not Joe-laid, It’s Lieber-juice.
-GSD
I’ve been thinking (dangerous and generally unproductive, I know) and I’ve come to the conclusion that the people most to blame for Joe’s election are the Clintons. Lamont represented a real challenge to the DLC/triangulation wing of the party AKA the Clinton wing and a threat to Hillary’s nomination.
These people must be stopped.
Breaking News:
Jefferson Davis Al Sadr has announced that Iraq is now officially involved in a civil war.
-GSD
Connecticut Bob @ 92
Bob, I hear you. I didn’t get to the second half, because of the hurl factor. But we do need to keep an eye on him. Perhaps we should start a support group for those who follow or blog HoJoe and develop techniques, like “work self into meditational state”, while watching “pretend it’s bad fiction, and you are required to take notes” etc.
This Gaza ceasefire is like the Polish people signing a ceasefire with Germany in WWII. Or Native Americans signing a treaty with the U.S. government so long ago.
Without a Palestinian homeland, there will be no peace. Save for “forced peace” perhaps.
“…something else more productive”? Self-governance and a homeland for the Palestinians. That’s more productive. I do not trust the Israeli government to keep it’s word.
I agree Morris at 97 and also with you OK kiddo at
100.
Morris Sheppard @ 97
Yes, they must be stopped but not at the expense of giving the game to rethuglicans. Even Hillary, Biden, Hoyer and Schumer (but, not Lieberman) are better than more republicanism of any current brand.
Morris Sheppard @ 97
I dislike intensely the DLC. This nifty little group is a large part of what’s wrong with my party, the Democratic party. The DLC, and the Clintons are joined at the pocket-book.
GSD @ 98
Somebody had to make official what anybody with a brain already knew. Jefferson Davis – that’s a clever analogy.
I am so sick of Joe. So, I went and looked up the 2008 Senate elections. 33 seats are up for re-election, 21 are Republicans.
Anyone know if there are any good challengers out there we can get behind? We hold all 12 of ours and we only need to pick up two to make Joe irrelevant again.
What about a challenger for Sununu? The Northeast seems particularly hostile to Repugs these days.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 101
I understand. I am beginning to listen to Jimmy Carter’s Palestine Peace Not Apartheid. Like someone else said earlier about another topic, more education is necessary to overcome the christian bias that Israel should have whatever it wants.
I have a tendency to repeat myself on some of this but none of these commissions, real or proposed, is worth spit if they fail to come to grips with the basic realities of Iraq.
There is no bottom. As bad as things are, there is always room for them to get worse.
There is no way for us to establish a secure environment in the country
The civil war has been going on for nearly 9 months, and civil wars need to be addressed differently than ’sectarian strife’ or political jockeying.
The government is the parties. The militias are the army, and the parties are the militias. This explains why neither the government nor the army is functional or should be expected to function.
Even after 3 1/2 years, the Iraqi army continues to lack command and control, logistics, heavy weapons, discipline, an esprit de corps, or the allegiance of its soldiers. In other words, it is a shell and without a large American presence backing it into the indefinite future would disappear entirely. This state of affairs did not exactly creep up on planners in the White House and Pentagon. It was known from the first and allowed to develop precisely in this fashion, which leaves me wondering what the policy of Bush and company really was. I am not a conspiracy theorist but how would you describe the reasons for the creation of a largely illusory force totally dependent on us?
In any case, an easy way to assess how reality based any of these commissions are is to see if they accept or hedge on the civil war, if they recognize the essential identity between the parties and militias, on the one hand, and the government and army, on the other, and, of course, how ready they are to propose withdrawal.
UptownNYChick @ 106
I think I heard that Jeanne Shaheen (former gov.) is going to go after him. IF so, game on.
Jane:
LIEberman couldn’t find his ass with both hands and a flashlight.
I’ve got his wise men right here. Especially the second one.
Listen very closely to Gen. Schwarzkopf
BTW I still think Iraq is all part of a grand plan to steal money from the middle class and give it to the wealthy. [read: Russell Trust Association - google it]
Jay @
60
It’s a track-back, Someone is listing blogs starting with the letter “F”. Not a grade, folks.
Hotline said that sununu and Collins are the most vulnerable Repugs. Also there are three possibly retiring Rs: Allard (Colo); Cochran (Mississippi); Hagel (Neb.) and Warner (Va.)
We have several options to make Joe irrelevant.
When do they generally start to weed through the challangers?
What is the thinking behind primary challenges in 2008 to hold-your-nose Dems like Senator Evan Bayh? Should we let sleeping dogs lie or should we be on the lookout for better progressive primary challengers? The war issue makes Bayh vulnerable as hell here because Indiana has lost a lot of troops in Iraq and it was a primary motivation for turning this state blue this time around. An antiwar progressive that could challenge the former head of the DLC (and one of its founders too I think) for the Senate nomination while Bayh is running for the Veep position on the 2008 POTUS ticket could do well here.
So John Casper, what are the words to the Notre Dame fight song?
UptownNYChick @ 106
I would like to see a good Democrat make Saxby Chambliss crawl back under whatever rock he crawled out from under for his vicious sliming of a patriot, Max Cleland.
UptownNYChick @ 112
Collins, HoJoe’s bipartisan buddy? I’m with that!
UptownNYChick @ 112
Toss Cornyn in there too.
http://www.surveyusa.com/50Sta…..061122.htm
hackworth @ 104
Stopping them will not give the game to the R’s. IMO the easiest way for rethugs to win in ‘08 is for Hillary to be the candidate.
As for uptownNYchick at 107 – yes. Now is not too soon to start laying out a plan and candidates to capture some R Senate seats. And Sununu, who won by a slim margin in ‘02, a Rethug year, is one of the prime targets.
UptownNYChick @ 112
I think Collins should be targeted for pretending to be a moderate but always siding with Bush when it matters.
At least, that is my impression of her.
My opinion on Evan Blah is to leave him alone. Indiana is way too conservative to embrace a progressive candidate, if one can even be found here. You said yourself yesterday that the Dems here are all DLC types. Better them than one of Mitch’s flying monkeys.
primary challenges in red leaning states are likely to result in a gooper victory…If yer gonna get rid of centerist dems- ya gotta do it in states that will elect a progressive.
UptownNYChick @ 112
I’d like to see Huckleberry and Arlen Spector take a hike.
& what about this:
Delaware (Biden-D) – Primary challenge, puhleeze? please, please.
Oopelooks like the Martini man just said the same thing..
In a BROADER sense- there’s not much room for ratcheting up the progressive component of the current dem senators until they have a more substantial majority.
The other thing we need to consider is who we can coalesce behind to stop the Hillary juggernaut. With Feingold, Warner, Dean and Gore seemingly out of the picture, the logical choice seems to be Clark. He’s smart, internationally respected, domestically progressive, has impeccable military credentials and no votes that can be held against him. He may not be perfect but I see no one better who is electable and running.
rwcole @ 121
It’s kind of sad the “centrists” in red leaning states are “safe” from the likes of us at least, but I agree with you.
Twisted Martini @ 120
Yeah youre probably right, but then I saw Ned Lamont and Jon Tester this year. Tester proves a progressive can win in a conservative state, even outrunning the DLC backed candidate. I think Bayh is gonna be distracted by running for the Veep slot in ‘08 and will not be focused on the Senate race here. If we found a Tester-like candidate in Indiana to put up a primary challenge it might just work.
Minor transcript correction: Kitty Pilgrim is the CNN anchor addressing Michael Ware on the air, not Kathleen Koch, whose report had concluded.
Hillary Clinton would probably lose to almost any Republican in 2008, should she gain the Democratic nomination for the presidency. I wish Senator Clinton would get out of the way for Clark, or Gore.
However, if the Senator would change her views on Iraq and the Middle East in general, I would support her in a NY nanosecond.
I like the idea of going after Collins and Sununu. New England basically gave the finger to the Repugs in this last election, only Shays was re-elected to the House.
collins has a fairly high approval rating, but when she initially ran she promised to be only a two-term Dem. It’s time to start calling her a promise-breaker.
Sununu, I think if the right candidate runs, he’s toast.
mui @ 122
They are listing Biden as a possible retiree. He may not be able to run for two seats at one time (wish Ct. had this law in 2000)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 129
Even if she changed her views now, it’s too late. That train has left the station. She is not to be trusted.
Sununu’s a good target-strange state though- where low taxes are a reason for being.
UptownNYChick @ 129
Remember HoJoe had a pretty high approval raiting as well. That changed in the course of a few months.
ted Stevens is up for re-election in 2008 – wonder if he’ll have a website…
There are only three or four moderate goopers left in office- the rest could be gone in four years. Strange.
Morris Sheppard @ 131
Perhaps. Perhaps not.
UptownNYChick @ 134
Maybe Stevens could hire Dangerstein to run a blog for him.
UptownNYChick @ 134
Well with all teh internets he loses to the trucks being delayed backing up to the toobz I bet he will make sure he gets a good truck driver to build it.
I thought the Iraq Study Group was a study hall for prominent people whose shortsighted lack of understanding has lead to this disaster.
I don’t think Hillary should run- but she will- I don’t think she should win- and she won’t.
She seems like a pretty competent person- she got on the war thing to show that she was tough enough to lead the nation to war if necessary-something the first woman president will have to do. She won’t, however, own that distinction.
Warner in VA is going to be mucho oldo. Not that it stopped old Bobby Byrd in W. VA.
However, he may want to go out on his terms and not land on his ass like Felix Macaca.
Mark Warner may have opted out of the 2008 Pez. run for just this race.
-GSD
In NH, I would say that John Sununu Jr. is beatable. Rumor in NH has it that widely popular Guv. Lynch(just elected w/ a record 74% margin)has stated he won’t run for Senate in ‘08. That may mean he’s clearing the board for former NH guv. Jeanne Shaheen who was bested by Junior-nunu, with the help of an illegal phone jamming scam orchestrated from the Whitehouse by Rove and Smellman.
Also, maybe Max Cleland will take on Giblet Boy Saxby Chumpbliss in GA again. Maybe Cleland can run pictures of Chambliss morphing into a douchebag.
Edwards seems to me to be the strongest dem candidate- but wish there was a strong governor in the running-from a reddish state with lots of electoral votes.
There is some talk about Jerome Corsi (the despicable Repug author of the Kerry hit job book) may be running for Kerry’s seat in 2008.
Bizarre.
UptownNYChick @ 134
I don’t know Alaska. But I would think it’d be pretty easy to paint him as bumbling and clueless among other things (Wasn’t he the secret senator that put some corruption bill on hold.) Maybe time to air the dirty laundry among all those tubes? Running against a gritty Dem Tester like candidate.
GSD– LOL and you’re also very insightful.
Junior- nunu, then Dregs Gregg.
Would be sweet to see Chamblis swing— I mean lose.
After her dismal performance with the 2006 Senatorial elections Elizabeth Dole could be vulnerable with the right Dem candidate. I wouldn’t be surprised if she finds herself in a primary.
yeah- Libby’s a loser.
I know 2008 is a long ways away, but I am so going through election withdrawl. I need a race to care about.
rwcole @ 140
Yes, at the end of the day, we are a warmongering lot. Shame the SCLM won’t stop warmongering, but it won’t. We’ve got one guy on prime time right now – Olbermann – and that’s it. The rest of them are a motley crew of water-carrying toadies. God help us if we didn’t have these tubes.
UptownNYChick @ 149
I’m thinking 2008 is the main game now. Only 24 short months away. Eyes on THE prize.
CQ says that Coleman (Mn) and Allard are only lean Dem and Collins, Sununu, Dole and Inhofe (?)are likely Dem.
Minnesota went strongly Dem this last election and Coleman is a boob with the right candidate he could go too.
I don’t know what to hink about Inhofe, maybe Ok voters are tired of the moron.
Imagine: McCain/Lieberman win in ‘08. Eight years of McCain (if he lives that long, but hey look at Cheney) and then likely eight years of Lieberman on top.
I know what you mean and I think it’s because we have so much more work to do!
I want all self- serving sanctimonious arses out of my government.
I never want to hear their puling, whining, fear and warmongering voices raised again in Fox patriotism.
Lieberman is useful now, but McCain has a hard enough time with the right-wingers by himself, how will he explain a guy that was out waving his so-called Liberal flag in Aug. ‘06 as enough of a social conservative to please the crowd at Bob Jones U?
NBC News was just saying its a civil war and that Bush refuses to acknowledge it because being in the middle of one is exactly where he does not want to be.
Nice to hear it spelled out on a local channel.
“work to do!” Damn right, again, angie.
Good news! President Bush was right: the Iraq war is paying for itself through oil revenues.
Bad news! It’s paying the wrong side.
From last thread:
Twisted Martini. Potica is incredible time consuming to make. You have to roll the dough very thin, like the size of a kitchen table! Try it, but meantime, here is where I buy it every year. It is wonderful!
http://www.potica.com/
The Italian Bakery in Virginia, MN of all places!
Well, Patrick 4/4– no suprise really, is there?
If somebody invaded our country, I would surely advocate using our natural resources and whatever means we had to provide anything at all to fight back.
New thread!
I pretty much think everyone here uses “civil war,” to describe Iraq except for the BubbleBoy and his henchmen.
GSD,
thanks for the great recipe for cornbread dressing, so much better than the box stuff.
Angie!
You remember back when you mentioned Badger Balm? I got some. It got me through a Thanksgiving bout of psoriasis. THANK YOU. Wonderful stuff!
Don’t you think McCain is a “low talker”?
JJ
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @
112
The trick is to get the intended “target,” whether Dem or GOP, to look beyond his/her next election, i.e. get them to break the Bill Clinton Rule: Never look beyond the next election. Bill learned this when he lost the Governorship of Arkansas after his (I think) first two-year term. Ambitious, touted and bright, he knew great things were in his future, and (iirc) he forgot he needed to get re-elected to his then-current job. We all heard Bill spouting this His Rule when asked about her Prez ambitions during Hill’s campaign for re-election to the Senate in 2006.
An recent and satisfying example of breaking this Rule to one’s detriment may be found in soon-to-former Senator Macacawitz of Virginia, who said in early 2006 in Iowa while campaigning for the GOP Presidential nomination that the Senate moved too slow and bored him. Bored now, Felix? I thought so.
So, if Evan Bayh’s Senate seat were up in 2008 — here’s the link to Class II Senators whose terms expire in January 2009 and he’s not — he could be induced to focus on the Prez/Veep campaign, losing his focus on the need to get re-elected in the same year.
On the other hand, OtherJoe appears vulnerable to such a strategy, although I recall reading that Legacy (Beau?) Biden is ready to step into pops’ shoes in the Senate. Junior Biden’s probably gettin’ prophylactic hairplugs as we speak.
neurophius @
114
I’d love a re-match of 2002 in Georgia 2008, actually.
mui @
143
Recall our favorite Diane Benson, who ran statewide for the At-Large House seat in Alaska, and did respectably against Don Young. Interesting to have only one Congressman, but two Senators, all responsible to — and exposed to — the same voters.
Margot @ 161
Nothin’ beats Badger Balm!!
FRESHLY WHIPPED DOGS
Ware is one of the rare true journalists around. He is someone you respect and trust to tell the facts and not sugar coat it or kiss anyones ass.
He is worth a mint to anyone who wants real journalism
rwcole @
139
Just came across this and I do not want her to run. I cannot stand to hear her give a speech. But, since I have insomnia, maybe that’s a good thing.
she’s gonna run and think it’s in the bag. Surprise! She is not.
A list of why: She is too packaged, she doesn’t stand for anything except what the polls show for the day, she has no positions, she is a ultimate insider, she makes a die hard democrat think of voting republican just to vote against her and make the ultimate statement, she has no personality, and I don’t recall us voting for a Bush/Clinton monarchy.
I saw Edwards on Russert tonight and you compare her with him, or Richardson or anyone else who is thinking of running and why would you vote for her. Just because she is a woman. Hell, after Waxman gets done with his investigations the first woman prez will be Pelosi who is 100 times better than Hillary could ever hope to be.
Anybody know what Joe is planning to do with his chairmanship of that Homeland Security committee? Any investigations, or would that be too partisan?