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	<title>Comments on: Defining Moments</title>
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		<title>By: dlake</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-392450</link>
		<dc:creator>dlake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Nov 2006 04:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-392450</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Man, this is the second Kennedy remembrance I’ve come to.&lt;br /&gt;
Weird.&lt;br /&gt;
I was telling my husband how you think of Kennedy and his class and elegance when with world leaders and then flash to today and chimpy abroad.  Groan.&lt;br /&gt;
This is where we’ve come from Kennedy’s vision of a great America.  Chimpy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, this is the second Kennedy remembrance I’ve come to.<br />
Weird.<br />
I was telling my husband how you think of Kennedy and his class and elegance when with world leaders and then flash to today and chimpy abroad.  Groan.<br />
This is where we’ve come from Kennedy’s vision of a great America.  Chimpy.</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-392219</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Nov 2006 00:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, I voted for JFK in 1960.  First Presidential Election, except that my mom had allowed me to make the X on her ballot for FDR in 1944.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I certainly remember 22 November 1963, Found out about it when I arrived at a service station where I had an appointment to have my car greased and oiled — and the mechanics were all crying over the little table radio.  Twas a poor grad student and Civil Rights Organization employee in those days, so no TV yet.  Had to go visiting to see the funeral and all.  But I do have a somewhat different take on Kennedy.  (And I would agree, read Seymour Hersh’s book — or Richard Reeves more recent political treatments.)  For instance, I actually doubt whether Kennedy had the skill to move Civil Rights legislation through congress — but Lyndon Johnson did have those political skills.  Johnson was culturally an old New Dealer, Kennedy had been understood as weak by Eleanor before the 1960 election, and she never really changed her estimate before she died in 1962.  This isn’t to take anything away from the impact Kennedy had on many Americans, particularly my generation just coming into political participation, and who knew the sleepy old types from the Eisenhower years, and delighted in the generational change, but Kennedy simply did not have the kind of centering political philosophy such as the New Deal around which he built his administration.  Johnson, on the otherhand more or less finished the New Deal — Medicare, Medicade, Updated Social Security and of course Civil Rights.  Kennedy could not arm twist Congress, because his sexual life was something of an open secret in Congress, and he was thus vulnerable.  Johnson had the goods on everyone, thus he could threaten with the best, including Hoover.  So while it is right to remember what we all lost that day, it is also important to temper it all with good political analysis.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I voted for JFK in 1960.  First Presidential Election, except that my mom had allowed me to make the X on her ballot for FDR in 1944.  </p>
<p>I certainly remember 22 November 1963, Found out about it when I arrived at a service station where I had an appointment to have my car greased and oiled — and the mechanics were all crying over the little table radio.  Twas a poor grad student and Civil Rights Organization employee in those days, so no TV yet.  Had to go visiting to see the funeral and all.  But I do have a somewhat different take on Kennedy.  (And I would agree, read Seymour Hersh’s book — or Richard Reeves more recent political treatments.)  For instance, I actually doubt whether Kennedy had the skill to move Civil Rights legislation through congress — but Lyndon Johnson did have those political skills.  Johnson was culturally an old New Dealer, Kennedy had been understood as weak by Eleanor before the 1960 election, and she never really changed her estimate before she died in 1962.  This isn’t to take anything away from the impact Kennedy had on many Americans, particularly my generation just coming into political participation, and who knew the sleepy old types from the Eisenhower years, and delighted in the generational change, but Kennedy simply did not have the kind of centering political philosophy such as the New Deal around which he built his administration.  Johnson, on the otherhand more or less finished the New Deal — Medicare, Medicade, Updated Social Security and of course Civil Rights.  Kennedy could not arm twist Congress, because his sexual life was something of an open secret in Congress, and he was thus vulnerable.  Johnson had the goods on everyone, thus he could threaten with the best, including Hoover.  So while it is right to remember what we all lost that day, it is also important to temper it all with good political analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: Strategerie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-392185</link>
		<dc:creator>Strategerie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Nov 2006 00:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-392185</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-391911&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;obsessed @ 142 &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Okay, I think I’m going to get EPU’d here, but I disagree with the above opinion on Al Gore.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think Mr.Gore has undergone a metamorphosis since his run for the White House. He’s shown he’s not afraid to call things as they are. He’s also shown that he has the ability to relate to a crowd, as seen in the presentations of the material he explored in “An Inconvenient Truth”. He jokes, he provokes thought, and he speaks truth to power. His previous woodenness has given way to a concerned husband, father, grandfather and patriot who wants to see that our world will turn back from the brink for his kids, their kids, and the generations yet to be born. I think this is his time, even more than when he ran for President. I think what happened to him in 2000, as he quoted his father, “shook his soul” and “let the glory out”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I can only believe that it is time for America to embrace a President that has learned from his own mistakes, is humble enough to realize he may not have all the answers, but has America’s best interests at heart, not his own. Our next leader must have a stomach of cast iron, a backbone that won’t quit, and the intelligence to grasp and implement what needs to be done. We need a statesman to clean up the mess of the last six years. I think Mr. Gore is the only one with that ability.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;IMHO, YMMV,&lt;br /&gt;
-S&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-391911"><em>obsessed @ 142 </em></a> </p>
<p>Okay, I think I’m going to get EPU’d here, but I disagree with the above opinion on Al Gore.</p>
<p>I think Mr.Gore has undergone a metamorphosis since his run for the White House. He’s shown he’s not afraid to call things as they are. He’s also shown that he has the ability to relate to a crowd, as seen in the presentations of the material he explored in “An Inconvenient Truth”. He jokes, he provokes thought, and he speaks truth to power. His previous woodenness has given way to a concerned husband, father, grandfather and patriot who wants to see that our world will turn back from the brink for his kids, their kids, and the generations yet to be born. I think this is his time, even more than when he ran for President. I think what happened to him in 2000, as he quoted his father, “shook his soul” and “let the glory out”.</p>
<p>I can only believe that it is time for America to embrace a President that has learned from his own mistakes, is humble enough to realize he may not have all the answers, but has America’s best interests at heart, not his own. Our next leader must have a stomach of cast iron, a backbone that won’t quit, and the intelligence to grasp and implement what needs to be done. We need a statesman to clean up the mess of the last six years. I think Mr. Gore is the only one with that ability.</p>
<p>IMHO, YMMV,<br />
-S</p>
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		<title>By: The Heretik : The Promise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391996</link>
		<dc:creator>The Heretik : The Promise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391996</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[…] Let there always be hope. And may it be fulfilled. The sooner the better.  . . . what today’s cynics miss — remain, in fact, almost wholly blind to — is the way and the success with which John Kennedy called us to something larger than ourselves. This is called leadership and we haven’t seen anything remotely like it since. From any candidate of any party. […]&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] Let there always be hope. And may it be fulfilled. The sooner the better.  . . . what today’s cynics miss — remain, in fact, almost wholly blind to — is the way and the success with which John Kennedy called us to something larger than ourselves. This is called leadership and we haven’t seen anything remotely like it since. From any candidate of any party. […]</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391957</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391957</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sometimes I get sick of hearing about the Kennedys. It’s like a tape which repeats or an advertising campaign.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But, the comments on this thread have been heart-breaking and inspired and that is something worth reading.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It doesn’t pay to be too morose, but memorials are to briefly recall the past, to recall the battles won &amp; lost, the great personages, the moments which shaped us as individuals and as a country. JFK, MLK and RFK are forever together in our hearts and memories. We continue the ‘war’ for peace and prosperity for all.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks fdl.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes I get sick of hearing about the Kennedys. It’s like a tape which repeats or an advertising campaign.</p>
<p>But, the comments on this thread have been heart-breaking and inspired and that is something worth reading.</p>
<p>It doesn’t pay to be too morose, but memorials are to briefly recall the past, to recall the battles won &amp; lost, the great personages, the moments which shaped us as individuals and as a country. JFK, MLK and RFK are forever together in our hearts and memories. We continue the ‘war’ for peace and prosperity for all.</p>
<p>Thanks fdl.</p>
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		<title>By: obsessed</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391911</link>
		<dc:creator>obsessed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 20:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391911</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Obama is in bed with a very dirty influence peddler in Chicago. I don’t care what he says, I care what he does. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I care less about what he says or does than about HOW HE SAYS IT. I don’t want another Republican president in 2008. Call me shallow but listen: I’m not THAT old (52), but I’m obviously the oldest one here because you guys just simply &lt;b&gt;DO NOT GET IT&lt;/b&gt; - Obama cannot speak - period - maybe he’s better than Kerry and Gore - but in terms of what it really takes to become president - he’s not even close. You need to find some old video of Kennedy or King to see what I mean.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I think that both John Kerry and Al Gore would have made excellent presidents.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think so too - but we will never find out because neither one of them has the charisma and communication skills to make it to the White House.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Obama is in bed with a very dirty influence peddler in Chicago. I don’t care what he says, I care what he does. </i></p>
<p>I care less about what he says or does than about HOW HE SAYS IT. I don’t want another Republican president in 2008. Call me shallow but listen: I’m not THAT old (52), but I’m obviously the oldest one here because you guys just simply <b>DO NOT GET IT</b> &#8211; Obama cannot speak &#8211; period &#8211; maybe he’s better than Kerry and Gore &#8211; but in terms of what it really takes to become president &#8211; he’s not even close. You need to find some old video of Kennedy or King to see what I mean.</p>
<p><i>I think that both John Kerry and Al Gore would have made excellent presidents.</i></p>
<p>I think so too &#8211; but we will never find out because neither one of them has the charisma and communication skills to make it to the White House.</p>
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		<title>By: Beel</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391909</link>
		<dc:creator>Beel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 20:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391909</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;While I remember JFK with very positive feelings, a read of Sy Hersh’s The Dark Side of Camelot is really needed to understand the reality of that politics, those times.  The assassination was the very tip of an iceberg.  Once you begin to understand that Jack Ruby was a government agent, you begin to understand where people are coming from who wonder at the events of 9/11.  In those Camelot days we thought the official story was more or less the story.  How naive.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I remember JFK with very positive feelings, a read of Sy Hersh’s The Dark Side of Camelot is really needed to understand the reality of that politics, those times.  The assassination was the very tip of an iceberg.  Once you begin to understand that Jack Ruby was a government agent, you begin to understand where people are coming from who wonder at the events of 9/11.  In those Camelot days we thought the official story was more or less the story.  How naive.</p>
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		<title>By: DefJef</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391897</link>
		<dc:creator>DefJef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 20:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391897</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There is no doubt that there was a conspiracy behind the murders of JFK, RFK, MLK, JFKjr, and even MalcomX.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;These leaders all represented the people and not the military industrial complex that wants war and money.  All were gunned down by “nuts”  … gimme a break. If you belive that I have a nice bridge to sell you.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We live in the illusion of a Jeffersonian democracy… but whenever a charismatic leader steps forth they take him out.  No one can challenge their agenda and their power.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The are in the government in the intel services, in the military and we are powerless against them. They control everything and step in when they have to.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They only took in a trillion in Iraq.. but are looking for more appropriations… right about now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no doubt that there was a conspiracy behind the murders of JFK, RFK, MLK, JFKjr, and even MalcomX.</p>
<p>These leaders all represented the people and not the military industrial complex that wants war and money.  All were gunned down by “nuts”  … gimme a break. If you belive that I have a nice bridge to sell you.</p>
<p>We live in the illusion of a Jeffersonian democracy… but whenever a charismatic leader steps forth they take him out.  No one can challenge their agenda and their power.</p>
<p>The are in the government in the intel services, in the military and we are powerless against them. They control everything and step in when they have to.</p>
<p>They only took in a trillion in Iraq.. but are looking for more appropriations… right about now.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry in Maryland</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391833</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry in Maryland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-391669&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;EvilDrPuma @&lt;br /&gt;
                68              &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-391668&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Oklahoma kiddo @ 67&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Ever notice how it’s mostly the political and social liberals that get murdered?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If that is true, it’s because it’s mostly the political and social reactionaries who think a gun has the power to solve a problem.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That holds true for the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, as well.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-391669"><em>EvilDrPuma @<br />
                68              </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-391668"><em>Oklahoma kiddo @ 67</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Ever notice how it’s mostly the political and social liberals that get murdered?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>If that is true, it’s because it’s mostly the political and social reactionaries who think a gun has the power to solve a problem.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That holds true for the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, as well.</p>
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		<title>By: rizbiz</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391821</link>
		<dc:creator>rizbiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/22/defining-moments/#comment-391821</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My kid is the same age now that I was when JFK was assassinated.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;She looked over my shoulder just now [at the illustration] and asked me “who is that daddy?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wish she could read these comments and understand.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But I will quote her following classroom assignment:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Dear Bush,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I need you to make world peace please and if you can’t do that just make friends with the other preisedent or find something that you have in commen or something like other than fighting and more like making peace.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[two hearts as signature]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have to go bawl now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My kid is the same age now that I was when JFK was assassinated.</p>
<p>She looked over my shoulder just now [at the illustration] and asked me “who is that daddy?”</p>
<p>I wish she could read these comments and understand.</p>
<p>But I will quote her following classroom assignment:</p>
<p>Dear Bush,</p>
<p>I need you to make world peace please and if you can’t do that just make friends with the other preisedent or find something that you have in commen or something like other than fighting and more like making peace.</p>
<p>[two hearts as signature]</p>
<p>I have to go bawl now.</p>
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