(Photo From the Files of the Department of Things You Will Never, Ever See.)
Glenn has some thoughts about the neocons trying to whine their way out of blame for the failures of their planning, attempting to tie an anvil around the Bush Administration while whistling past the fact that the same blame is heavily placed equally at their own feet.
And over at Bob Geiger's blog, Bob takes a peek at the bill proposed by Chris Dodd to restore the Constitution and legal precedents back to their rightful place in whatever judicial proceedings we are attempting to cobble together for folks in Guantanimo. This is well worth a read and then some — although the veto pen is probably already being inked in anticipation of any passage of this bill, it is certainly a fight worth waging, and waging again and again. Big thanks to Chris Dodd — and to Pat Leahy and Russ Feingold and…all the other Senators who have been waging it, all along.
It's funny that at a time when in-front-of-the-camera Republicans like John McCain are trying to "stick to the script" on Iraq, the rest of the country is asking some uncomfortable questions about accountability and failure. I say, it's about time.
More restoration, please.
Related posts:
- Republicans Move to Permit Credit Card Companies to Jack Up Their Rates for the Next Several Weeks
- Dodd: Reprimanding Lieberman is “Ridiculous”
- Tortured Logic: Judge Richard Leon Delivers Habeas Smackdown
- CIA Torture Report Remains Under Wraps; Has Rule of Law Resurfaced?
- Member of Veterans Group “Gathering of Eagles” Told Dodd to Kill Himself
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Fitz!
angie!
twolf1!
Christy!
G’mawnin
While in theory, this is good, I ask all of you to remember how all three of the bill’s sponsors abandoned Ned Lamont.
We must never forget those who betrayed us.
EPU’d: OT – get out your violins for Pombo:
Great pic. LOL!
Watching John McCain go down in flames for his last time is going to be one of the biggest delights over the next 20 months or so…
Check your ‘chute, McCain. You’ll need it!
Guitar at 4 — I don’t call appearing in a commercial with Lamont abandoning him. And I have no idea how you can, frankly — Dodd did a lot of behind-the-scenes work with the Lamont campaign that did not make the front pages, and this even with a long-term friendship with Lieberman that has been destroyed as a result. That cannot have been easy for him, but he did it nonetheless. I think absolutism in this case is not only overrated, but sincerely misguided. And I say this as a very staunch Lamont supporter.
the rude one does a good number on McCain:
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/
Guitar–OK- should we work against the bill?
Ed*ard Teller @
7
It won’t really be fun, will it? He was a guy who could have been all the things he promised to be until he started believing his own press. He could have been a centrist in a time when authoritarianism was so very damaging to the fabric of our political process. He could have been a proponent of truthfulness when we suffered under an administration characterized as the most secretive and deceitful since Nixon. He could have been an American Hero one more time; instead, he’ll be a tear in the page of real progress until he slides to the bottom as a footnote. That’s not really fun, it’s just sad.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @
4
Dodd did NOT abandon Lamont. Aside from what Christie mentioned Dodd was traveling the state with Ned. I met him at a campaign event in Middletown the Sunday before the election where he and Ned were working the crowd after having gotten off the Bus together.
Dodd deserves a lot of credit for doing the right thing even after the other dems deserted Ned.
JohnSwifty @ 11
Everything you should just said about McCain can also be applied to most of our mainstream journalmalists.
Ed*ard Teller @ 7
Check can o’ peas. Sorry, just had a flashback to jump school.
Odd. As soon as I read your title, I thought of the flyers I get all the time from Restoration Hardware.
JohnSwifty @ 11
Almost right from the start, McCain sort of skirted the edges of the dark side. Many have forgotten by now, but he might have ended up in the middle of the Keating Five scandal had he not done his little “honorable man” routine and tippy-toed away from Charles Keating just as the scandal broke.
He wants the Presidency so badly that his teeth ache. And that’s precisely the sort of person that shouldn’t occupy that office….
McCain has always been a conservative (Hell he was one of my senators for several years). He has the upside of sometimes telling the truth when it’s inconvenient for his own party–which makes him a hero from time to time. He’s also has a reasonably likable demeanor in my opinion.
Some the uber goopers who I play golf with KNOW the guy- worked with him in the defense industry. They claim that he’s dumber than a post-
At any rate- he’s gonna be REAL FUCKIN OLD by the next election.
Goopers will say- “Well Reagan was OLD- an look at him”!
These are the same goopers who said in 2000 “Well Reagan was stupid- an look at him”
We now have concrete evidence that stupid presidents are a poor investment- so maybe those with dementia are a poor pick as well?
TeeVee interviewers need ta get McCain on the tube and ask him little questions like “Senator McCain- where were you wednesday”
If they get nothin but blank stares- well then we know.
Marginalize the Dauphin!
This weekend, I heard commentators describe McCain as “too moderate to get the nomination,” “too conservative to move to the middle after getting the nomination,” “too much of a maverick,” “too much of a straight shooter,” and too, too, too.
Missing was this meme: The man is TOO OLD to be President.
St Ronnie in 1980: 69
McCain in 2008: 72
Reapply and repeat, please.
Ever since that post–I think it was a few weeks ago–about celebrating the “War on Christmas”, I have been meaning to come up with a holiday design on that theme. Then we had the elections, and then I got some sort of evil virus–maybe not quite the flu, but at very least a cold on steroids.
Anyway, I finally came up with something today.
John Swifty: Re McCain-what happens when you sell your soul to the devil.
rwcole @ 18
Uhh, why?. What’s today?
montag @ 16
No shit! And he’s selling his soul to the fundies and anyone else to get it. The only problem is the press just loves him because he gives them unlimited access (can you say “whore”?). So, will they cover up his consistent inconsistency?
Renee in Ohio @ 21
Happy Collie-days to you, Renee!
The Pool boy is leaving the WaPo. Gonna try to sell himself as a political know it all. Ha Ha.
JohnSwifty @
11
I’m not one of those who ever took his alleged sincerity at face value. It has been six years since he had to run a national campaign, but I remember his run against Bush in the early part of the 2000 primaries as being only less opportunistic than W’s campaign. Sorry, I’m gonna laugh at McCain for many reasons….
“press loves him”
The press loves anyone they can get a good story out of- they could care less if it’s a positive or a negative story.. If they find out that he can’t remember where he put his pecker- well that will be a good story too.
I was talking with a friend over the weekend, and he was of the opinion that we have to pressure the Iraqi government to clamp down on the sectarian violence, and prevent the country from splintering. He obviously gets his news from the MSM (there must be a pony inside this pile of shit) instead of the blogs.
I responded that the only chance we had to prevent this disaster was lost when General Garner was fired, and replaced by GOP Graftmaster Bremer. At best, we had a 10% chance of success when Bush invaded — that chance was lost when the Iraqi Army was disbanded.
But the truth is, we never should have invaded — the outcome we see today was both predictable and predicted, just as the failure of the excellent adventure in Vietnam was preordained.
In Vietnam, the North Vietnamese were going to win, and the South Vietnamese were going to lose. Why? The North Vietnamese were idealistic nationalists, while the South Vietnam government was corrupt, and the creation of the Western powers.
Furthermore, the American People knew this — they voted for the peace candidate in 1964, again in 1968 — in 1972, for the President who started the peace talks, and against the dirty hippie Senator from South Dakota.
The outcome was never in doubt — only the body count and the price tag. This was true in Vietnam way back when; it is true in Iraq today.
rwcole @ 28
The press may have loved him but they greased W. past him in the primary in 2000. Fickle fools all.
We need to build up our own “press” and tear his fake image to shreds. It should be pretty easy, lots to work with.
McCain’s personality was also described as “too angry to be President.” Apparently, he still snarls at the press and, like the cowed curs they are, they love him for it and come back for more. S.R. Sidarth, a nation turns it lonely eyes to you(r digital video cam) for another macaca moment.
McCain’s maverick meltdown, captured and shared by a citizen journalist, will end his candidacy. There’s a conspiracy of silence=access that’s keeping his temper from those he wishes to serve — us.
Did I mention McCain’s age?
RevDeb @
26
Oy. Does this mean they’re joining the “crank-o-sphere freakshow”, to borrow Harris’ terminology?
On the Dodd bill, I salute him for standing up, but I still can’t believe this hasn’t been more of an issue, wasn’t more of an issue in the election. It sickens me that I’m represented in the Senate by Salazar, junior chair of the Lieberman Torture Caucus, and Wayne Allard, who has only ever opened his mouth to promote the We Hate Fags Amendment to the Constitution
Did I mention McCain’s age?
to say nothing of his health (the skin cancer): He is not aging well.
RevDeb @ 26
With Harris! hahaha
http://poynter.org/forum/view_post.asp?id=12024
Joshua Muravchick of the AEI in yesterday’s WaPo laid out the neocon defense for the debacle in Iraq:
“So, is neoconservatism dead?
Far from it. Neoconservative ideas have been vindicated again and again on a string of major issues, including the Cold War, Bosnia and NATO expansion. It is the war in Iraq that has made “neocon” a dirty word, either because Bush’s team woefully mismanaged the war or because the war (which neocons supported) was misconceived. But even if the invasion of Iraq proves to have been a mistake, that would not mean that the neoconservative belief in democracy as an antidote to troubles in the Middle East is wrong, nor would it confirm that neoconservatism’s combination of strength with idealism is misguided. Neoconservatism isn’t dead; it can be renovated and returned to prominence, because, even today, it remains unrivaled as a guiding principle for U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East and beyond.”
In other words, “it’s not our fault, Bush fucked everything up.”
My reaction? Actually, it is your fault, Josh. Democracy at the point of a gun has never worked, never will. And to think that cultures with over three thousand years of history can be changed at the US’s whim, well that’s just sheer folly. The neocon’s philosphy of “strength with idealism” leaves out the most important ingredient: reality.
McCain will get burned in the primaries:
His gooper opponents will run THIS ad:
“Would you vote for HIM to be president?” (shows toothless ol guy in a suit)
“How bout HIM” (old guy in wheel chair)
“OR HIM”
Shows guys pushing walker along Miami Beach Boardwalk.
“Well all of these people are YOUNGER than senator John McCain!”
Josh owes us one successful example of democracy being successfully transplanted from outside the country through force- just one. Otherwise- this is all fanatical BULLSHIT!
I’m just wondering who the fundies are going to line up behind. McCain has dissed them but is now courting them, Rudy is trying to distance himself from his “New York values”, and Mitt is, well, a Mormon. This will be interesting, pass the popcorn.
MayDaze @ 38
A sadder bunch than even the dems this time around. They seem to be losing their touch or their minds.
Then again we made a lot of fun of W. when he was running and look what happened.
Never overestimate the intelligence of the electorate.
rwcole @ 37
Condi often points to Japan and Germany after WWII, having watched History Channel programming with her “husban– uhhhh, the President.”
I think when the goopers line the whole thing up- they may go for Mitt.
He was a governor in a blue state. He’s OK on the “cultural issues”– he presents himself well..
Roodee has way too much baggage- McCain has that growth on the side of his face that’s gettin ta be the size of a football and he’s older than most people’s grandfather, Condi—has proven herself to be a dependable non-performer…
Yeah- they’ll probably suck it up an go for Mitt.
If my RSS feed is any guage, it is going to be a really slow news week. Mayhaps finally some time to catch up on some book reading.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 25
Heh. At some point I decided our pets needed to start earning their keep, and started using them for all sorts of cheesy designs.
Demetrius is surprised at how many people want to buy stuff with our daughter’s cat on it. She is, of course, offended that he finds that surprising. :)
MayDaze @ 38
Brownback, who the fundies could induce to run a theocratic third party off a cliff in opposition to two abortion-requiring gay-lovers from the East Coast. Watch.
RevDeb @ 26
Perhaps Water Boy was politely asked
to leave the muddy waters due to the Post’s just
announced downsizing by attrition (forced)…?
Jack
JohnSwifty @ 11
He was never a centrist, except in the broken definition that says the center is exactly halfway between the increasingly right-wing Republicans and the mainstream Democrats. He’s been a maverick, meaning he sometimes speaks his mind when he doesn’t exactly agree with his party (you know, that thing that’s called “infighting” and “disarray” when Democrats do it), and the press has this weird inability to distinguish between “maverick” and “moderate,” even though they’re not similar at all.
The fact that he could have been an anti-authoritarian and opposed to massive secrecy and lying as standard government procedure is damning with faint praise.
And seeing someone demonstrate that you can’t get the Republican nomination without nakedly pandering to wingnuts and the religious fringe, and you’ll go down in flames with the general public if you do, is that fun? Yes, absolutely. He’s doing it of his own free will, and it’ll be good for the country.
A bit o’ perfume could help cover up the smell;
.mov
http://onegoodmovemedia.org/mo…..grance.mov
via
http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/
Scroll down to ‘Fragrance’.
I think McCain,Rudy,Rommey are all full of it,the voters said WE WANT CHANGE not more of the same old, from now till January I’m just enjoy the WIN AMERICANS got & the holidays.But I’ll keep my eye on the games played by the LOSERS till then also.
Willard burnishing his bigot cred:
http://thebluestate.typepad.co…..index.html
Germany’s hardly a good example. It was a democracy before Hitler came in and annointed himself. We just reset the clock. (and left a lot of the Nazis in their jobs- they knew how ta run the trains)
Japan is interesting- we left the emperor in place and he said “Do what they say”. I guess, though, that it is an example.
rwcole @ 41
Don’t be so sure. His former constituents may have lots to say about that:
There’s more.
Remember the banks of loudspeakers on the DZ for the school training jumps? I wondered what they were for, aside from yelling at every body to hurry back to the assembly area. During my fourth jump, or so, I snapped out of the usual rapturous delight when I noticed that I was closer to the ground than anyone else in my stick at roughly the same time the pleas from the ground registered in my brain.
“Will the jumper with the malfunction please pull his reserve!?!?!!
The next five seconds were a very busy time for me. LOL
Rev–So what do Goopers say about him? (dems won’t be voting in the gooper primary).
Jim @ 32
Oh, of course not. Their blog is hosted by a big media company that owns TV stations and such, so it’ll be all respectable and stuff. So most likely it’ll have Little Debbie-stype comment filtering (if it has comments at all) and it’ll fold within six months from lack of interest.
The Catholic thing leaves “America’s Failed Mayor” out. I read somewhere that the rethugs have never nominated a non-protestant for president.
How is it possible that with all the Catholics in this country protestants have maintained such a lock on the White House?
Willard’s got these in the “why there won’t be a Romney Presidency” column:
1. Funny underwear (his religion)
2. BigDig stuff. People died.
3. Dissing Massachusetts — I’ve heard this referred to, but have no links or quotes. Anybody?
4. Has to handover the keys to the governors’s office to a Dem; how did that help his aspirations to be Prez, exactly?
5. Prolly there’s lots of rich folks who’ve got Olympix dirt on him, waiting to unload it.
6. Did I mention his religion?
========
Who’s Next?
========
TeddySanFran @ 56
Okay, the thing that will bring him down is the magic underwear. Once people start looking for where his onesy ends, no one will hear a word of what he says.
The sane part of the gooper party want ROO-DEE so badly they can taste it—but how do ya waltz him past the bible belt? He was jest kiddin?
Goopers should adopt a “new rule”
Religious zealots can only vote in the GENERAL election. That’d make em a viable party.
When conservatives fail, it’s not their fault. It was sabotage.
When liberals fail, it’s because liberalism is geared to fail.
Re the Dodd bill, it probably will be vetoed but it sets the stage for repeal with the entrance of a new Congress and, hopefully, a new Democratic President in January of 2009. It may also give a nudge to the Supreme Court in any review. It is always hard to predict the reactions of justices but I have to wonder if they really want to come out and validate torture and abolition of habeas corpus just before a future Congress and President repudiate these positions.
jeffreyw @ 52
God, I remember the exact same thing. “You with the malfuction, pull your reserve.” My first jump really wasn’t all that bad. We were on a C-141 and the first dozen or so were rangers keeping their jump status current. They went out without a care in the world and when I got to the door the slipstream just sort of sucked me out. The rush was intense.
Willard’s the guy whose Dad’s Presidential candidacy ended when he talked about being “brainwashed” after a visit to Vietnam:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Romney#GOP_Presidential_politics
rwcole @ 53
a couple of tidbits from the BMG post:
He came in to MA pledging to build up the repug party. Instead it is in tatters. There is effectively no repug party left in the Bay state:
So that’s going to look good for Mitt’s resume? I don’t think so.
They need to do a lot of party building after the rout that was 2006. Willard is not the guy to do it.
In 1968–Mayor Richard Daly ran a convention that proved to the nation that the primary process must NOT be dominated by politicians…
What we have now is the product of that collective decision.
It eliminates the ability of the party officials to sit in a backroom and NOMINATE the candidate..
What we have now is a CLEANER process- but the most electable candidate sometimes doesn’t make the cut (true for both parties).
TeddySanFran @ 44
You’re probably right. You’d think they’d have more sense than to marginalize themselves by supporting a candidate with no other constituency. But then, look at the group we’re talking about…
As far as Mitt, from what little I’ve read, the real fundies see Mormons as some kind of Satanic cult, so I don’t think the “true believers” will go for him.
TeddySanFran @ 40
Lessee, in WWII, we had a total of 12 million in uniform. We produced almost 300,000 aircraft, several thousand ships of all types, 700,000 jeeps, 65,000 pieces of artillery and 17 million small arms and automatic rifles. Germany had been waging war with one country or another for almost ten years when the surrender came and the country’s industrial infrastructure was completely destroyed and there was no fuel left to run anything, anyway.
And Japan was even worse, having been fire- and a-bombed and its navy destroyed, and it was almost out of fuel, too.
The first thing we did in both places was get food in, get the electrical and phone systems going and starting rebuilding the industrial infrastructure so both countries would become good trading partners with the U.S. (just how good, we didn’t anticipate). In Germany and Japan, locals were immediately put to work cleaning up the mess (busy hands are happy hands) and were getting salaries again virtually instantly. Within three years of the end of the war, VWs were coming off the assembly line again. Massive loans through the Marshall Plan brought industry back all over Europe in record time (lots of things to buy from the US to keep production up here).
Almost everything done in WWII was not done in Iraq–or Afghanistan–for that matter. The big, big, big difference was organization. The lessons we’d learned bringing a huge war machine up to speed, the planning, the detailing, all were of use in bringing organization to those countries. There was no plan for after the invasion of Iraq (apart from removing money and resources from a country already bled white from sanctions), and the results were predictable.
Condi can eat my shorts.
Rev- thanks- interesting stuff (most of it sounds like dems wrote it though).
I can’t keep up with the posts here, but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents re Maureen Dowd. Christy admirably called MoDo on her cattiness, which is disgusting and over-the-top repugnant. But then in the comments, some people seemed to think it was necessary to rebuke MoDo by resorting to…..cattiness:
DefJef:
Christy Hardin Smith:
I agree! But then…..
Christy Hardin Smith:
Hmm.
I am in agreement with Rayne:
Please. Let’s not make catty comments about the physical appearance of public women, whether they be Nancy Pelosi, Maureen Dowd, or anyone else, and whether they are catty comments in response to other people’s catty comments or not. Can we agree on this?
rwcole @ 37
Japan. But I agree that it’s rare and requires overwhelming force, occupation and total subjugation for a long time, and for that reason, should not be attempted unless we have no choice.
Redshift 54 — oh gawd. That is sooo spot on.
We should start a “deathwatch” blog right now, take bets on when IT will expire.
I say “IT” because they are so f*cking clueless that they don’t even have a name picked out for their collaborative abortion of political journalism.
They don’t get it. They just don’t get it. They truly believe if they build it, we will come.
When in truth, we’ll be chucking bricks at the windows.
The Pool Boy? Does he have something on somebody? I can’t think of a good reason otherwise to bet good venture capital on this putz.
montag — and it helped in Japan to have a more or less cohesive society, not one fractured by sectarian/tribal rivalries.
rwcole @ 59
Hey, rw, don’t give them those good ideas!
MSNBC brief on-screen tag: “Senate Top Dem Supports SecDef nominee”
wtf?
Can we please have a fricking hearing, Harry?
Wasn’t McCain supposed to have committed suicide by now? And someone refresh my memory: Wasn’t it McCain who said that history would look back at Clinton and say, “What a waste.”? The irony fairy was working overtime on that one.
The new Stay the Course: “It would be disastrous to leave…”
Exiting Iraq must be the number one issue. There is absolutely no evidence that the blood shed would be greater with US out of Iraq than what we’re witnessing today. There is no legitimate support for staying another day and yet….we hear the continuous certainty of the “stay the course” crowd with their endless diatribe of how leaving would be a fate worse then hell..
Garbage. Those who have the megaphones must be repeatedly called out to justify one more life one more dollar one more day. Their unsupported claims of US exit would be a disaster should not be left to undermine the 11/7/2006 election.
Brownback’s an interesting one to watch- If he runs- and if he attacks every other candidate on the grounds of insufficient zealotry—he could crater the eventual winner with the fundies- and make a stinky mess out of the election.
Come on BROWNBACK!!!
Reid with Gates:
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/bl…..irmed.html
Sparkles at 68 — sanctimony is unbecoming — it was sarcasm to prove the point. Got irony?
I wrote my thank you to Chris Dodd and made sure to include the fact it hasn’t gone unnoticed that Torture Joe loved the Military Commissions Act just the way it was crafted.
And, Christy @8, I absolutely agree. Dodd did the best he could for Lamont, and risked putting himself in a very awkward position with Lieberman. Typical of Joe…he reacted as expected.
The New York Sun’s article discussed by Glenn—faking the damned photo for an apparently made-up terrorist—underlines the fact that the wingers’ve got nothing left, there’s no gas left in the tank, they’re out of ideas…
rwcole @ 67
True, written by dems. But I would not want to be a repug in MA right now. They are a sad and sorry lot and Willard did not do anything to rally them or build them up. He hogged the spotlight in the run-up to the Gov. election so Healy couldn’t get any good press for herself. He did nothing to help her get elected (granted that she self-immolated but. . . ).
The gay marriage issue has managed to lose them seats in the leg.- many who were anti-gay were voted out of office and Willard keeps bringing it up. Not only did they lose the Gov. race by a rout, they lost seats in both houses.
I just don’t see how he can pull it off. But then again as I said upthread, never overestimate the intelligence of the electorate.
Any links to support this “Romney dissing Massachusetts” meme I heard on the cable-chatfests about Willard?
Rev–He’s got a lot of downsides and you have pointed out many that I was unaware of- but the goopers have a problem “Who else?”
Christy Hardin Smith @ 78
‘nother cuppa joe’ll get me ’round the irony bend….
Teddy- No links- but I saw/read a bit about it last week. Apparently he has to tell the flyovers that he’s really one of them and that the little thing in Mass. was just- well- an accident.
rwcole @ 83
Cat-killer
Condi
BigTime
Jeb!
KHarris
Barbour (one of Tweety’s veep crushes)
Bloomberg
RGJoe
WTF, Teddy, is Reid playing at here? I have trouble believing that he’s rolling up at the first challenge…is he thinking, let these guys dig themselves in further?
A thought buzzing around lately is to point to the president whenever the Media pokes a microphone in the face of a Dem and asks for the solution to the Iraq quagmire: “Hey, he’s the commander-in-chief, it’s his war, ask the president!”
So if Gates gets a blank check to be the new SOD (giggle) does he then inherit not only the bankrupt policy of the CIC, but also the blame for running things so horribly?
Maybe there’s a method to Harry’s madness…
Re Maureen Dowd, there is a silver lining here of a kind. Snark is only good if there is a grain of truth behind it. The problem with Dowd is that she is just a weathervane that blows with any wind. It’s what makes her more irritating than acute. If she is attacking Democrats again, then that is an indication that the Democrats have indeed arrived.
scarecrow @ 71
Not only that, but Macarthur was seen as an extension of the Empreror, whom society held as divine. He certainly ruled like a benevolent dictator, or Viceroy.
Um, Guiliani, McCain, or Romney don’t have a prayer of getting the Republican nomination. Karl Rove will be working for some new dipshit Southerner, and here’s what the primaries are going to look like:
Attacks on Guiliani: Photos of Rudy in drag. Stories about him cheating on his wife and sleeping on the couch of a gay couple. Karl LOVES to gay-bait, and Rudy’s a ripe target.
Attacks on McCain: See South Carolina 2000. Again claim that his adopted child is actually the bastard child of his crack-whore wife. Throw in rumors of dentures for good measure.
Attacks on Romney: Mormonism = Satanism. Romney will have a rare steak for dinner one night, and the next morning there will be rumors of him eating raw animal flesh as part of some bizarre Satanic ritual to win votes.
The WH MSNBC reporter talked about W not feeling safe enough to stay overnight in Indonesia, so he flew 13 hours to Hawaii to get a good night’s sleep. Paraphrase, but all the tropes I mention were in his report!
Teddy–You aren’t serious about Joe are ya? Jewish guy from the northeast who’s pro choice and rabidly pro union winning the gooper nomination? Doesn’t seem too likely.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 68
NO! :) Its Maureen Dowd after all! Those who live by the sword of male attention…
She doesn’t have to do that. Look at Rachel Maddow.
Does it work for men, too? So no more making fun of seersucker day, or Byron York’s hair?
I refuse to support the death of snark.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 4
Other people have responded on this – but as a CT resident I want to reiterate that Dodd was perhaps slow to join the Lamont bandwagon, but the last two months he was totally onboard and helped a great deal.
As CT progressives pick up the pieces, we are thinking of developing a closer relationship with Dodd and letting him know that he has the full support of the progressive community. In other words, we want to work with him closely and we have his back.
This is in glaring contrast to our relationship with Lieberman – who clearly wants nothing to do with the progressive community – and visa versa. Our only “engagement” with Lieberman will be to monitor for egregious behavior (a full time job in and of itself).
rwcole @ 36
Salon’s Tim Grieve today has this bit about McCain as a flip-flopper:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/
Christy Hardin Smith @ 78
So hosts are allowed to be sanctimonious, but commenters, not so much?
Oh, and if you don’t like my comment, I’ll just accuse you of not having irony. Because maybe I mean this ironically.
kj: I want my TDS!
I want my FDL!
I want my WT!
OT, I’m test driving a few RSS readers and was interested in some recommendations. Ideas?
I’m shocked — shocked! — that commenters are lesser than hostesses here. I’m not sure I can ever comment again, knowing I am less than.
/irony off
Teddy– I thought that was pretty good too- that and the fact that the poor puppy had his BIG airplane break down so he had ta make do with a 757..
There were some pretty good photos of the protests- and Clusterfuck made some comments about them like “It’s great that you live in a country that allows you to protest”.
Some of the media left the impression that he said these words TO the protestors- others made it clear that he was hundreds of miles away when he so bravely spoke em.
This guy’s startin to smell like last month’s garbage.
Sparkles at 96 — Whatever. I’m tired, I’m coming off a week of having some sort of nasty stomach ick, and I’m not in the mood for some intricate game of gotcha. I know how my comment was intended when I wrote it. You don’t want to take me at my word — it’s fine with me.
af1 broke down?
scarecrow @ 71
They were there (not as pronounced as in Iraq, by any means), but there were warrior societies in conflict with each other and against the militarists who’d pledged themselves to the emperor. I think the Japanese took about three tries at forming a government after the war, and the U.S., for different reasons at different times, simply refused to allow those governments to proceed, until they had come up with the current system (there’s some evidence that the U.S. did that to prevent any one group in the country from achieving absolute control, and the residual effects of the system forced on the Japanese are the degree of ongoing corruption in the Diet and the extra-legal activities of the Yakuza).
But, no, the problem wasn’t as severe as in Iraq now. Even so, better planning for accommodating those divisions would have made things go much smoother. Had the U.S. been prepared to ensure that Sunnis would share proportionally in oil proceeds, that there would be constitutional guarantees that the Shia majority could not tyrannize the Sunni minority, if there’d been a crash effort to restore water, sewage treatment and electricity, we would not be facing the virtually intractable problems there now. Instead, we actually worked in opposition of all those things, first by disbanding the army, closing the state-owned factories and, thanks to Negroponte, setting up the death squads which were supposed to ensure Chalabi’s (or, eventually, Allawi’s) power inside the temporary government.
Every possible mistake that could be made was made. That’s why the factional fighting has blossomed as it has. And, that’s why Condi’s full of shit.
marksb,
I love that skit. Re Gates, there will be a few hard questions. Levin seemed to suggest there would be, but with a confirmation hearing scheduled during this Congress and with the Republicans still in majority, this looks like a done deal. His selection is tied up with the Iraq Study Group, Jim Baker, Bush I coup currently going on.
rwcole @ 83
Yep, they’ve got a problem. I’m all for not helping them figure that one out.
TeddySanFran @ 86
Nope on all of them. Here’s the run-down:
Cat-killer–Just lost the Senate.
Condi–Openly black.
BigTime–Openly evil.
Jeb!–Openly Bush.
KHarris–Openly slutty-looking.
Barbour (one of Tweety’s veep crushes)–Openly fat.
Bloomberg–Openly from New York.
RGJoe–Openly a weasel. (And boring–the monotone won’t work with general election voters.)
If voters would vote fer four years of Condi flyin around the world- buyin shoes- and accomplishing nothing- well then it’s all over for democracy in America.
TeddySanFran @ 102
Flat tires – six of ‘em. There’s a compare/contrast study there somewhere (current administration).
:-)
Twisted Martini @ 98
If you’re on a mac check out Newsfire. It’s what I use.
kristinejoy @ 93
Did I miss something? Whose male sword is Maureen Dowd wanting to throw herself on now?
TeddySanFran @ 102
They probably outsourced the maintenance to Halliburton.
If Mary is still here — thanks much for your thoughtful response on last thread. As usual, I think we come out about the same place, and I wasn’t raising the question to suggest otherwise. The point was to help clarify what we’re doing and why we make a distinction when there are also similarities, and to anticipate the arguments from the other side. You addressed all of these.
Viva transparency!
The War on Hypocrisy is being waged, and has the potential to be a true force for equality. Pundits bemoan the loss of privacy the electronic age brings, but few see the way humans are coping with it. The revelation of secret lives. The elimination of the distinction between public and private. It could be immensely liberating, and ultimately very progressive.
Frank Probst @ 106
Nope on all of them. Here’s the run-down:
Cat-killer–Just lost the Senate.
Condi–Openly black.
BigTime–Openly evil.
Jeb!–Openly Bush.
KHarris–Openly slutty-looking.
Barbour (one of Tweety’s veep crushes)–Openly fat.
Bloomberg–Openly from New York.
RGJoe–Openly a weasel. (And boring–the monotone won’t work with general election voters.)
They’re going to want Huckleberry.
Dr. Bong @ 108
Don’t forget that the NVA and VC were also incredibly vicious killers. I’m not saying sides weren’t but “idealistic nationalists” doesn’t really cut it.
-ck- @
29
Iran hosting summit with Iraq and Syria via Think Progress
Fasten your seatbelts.
RevDeb @
39
I blame Diebold
Hugh @ 110
Um, not every sword reference is about penii.
HotFlash @ 118
Just ask Vince McMahon
kristinejoy @ 119
I see. Sometimes a sword is just a sword, to paraphrase Freud.
rwcole @
50
But the biggest thing that makes them inapplicable as examples is that both of those nations either attacked us or declared war on us before we started killing people. Our original purpose was not to “bring democracy to them,” it was actual self-defense.
Rev Deb—Yeah that could be a barn burner..
The current Iraqi government would love to be able to tell the US and the Brits to get the hell out of their country- it’s the one thing that they could do that would win them additional support…If Iran and Syria provide a viable alternative- that could test the supposed “soveriegnty” of the bullshit govt. Clusterfuck crafted.
There was a White House shill on Hardball the other day who was asked- “If the Iraqi govt. asked us to leave- would we?”
The answer was- “maybe- it depends”.
Someone’s at least thought about this possibility.
montag –
It thought it ironic at the time when the US was urging the Iraqis, especially the Sunnis, to approve their new constitution, even though the fundamental issues about their relative power and legal protections and the sharing of oil revenues were not resolved. I wonder if we would have been better off if the constitutional vote had initially failed, which would have forced the parties back to negotiate/resolve these fundamental and divisive issues, and then vote again. We’ll never know, but I couldn’t understand at the time why we saw it in anyone’s interest to force an unjust fundamental law on a dispossesed, militarized and angry minority.
rwcole @ 123
Yeah, on whether or not we quick finish the air base in Kurdistan and whether or not the oil companies get the locked-in, legally airtight under international law contracts they want and if we don’t attack Iraq first and need the bases in Iraq for staging areas.
You bet someone’s been thinking about it, and they’re looking for every way not to leave.
crow–Yeah clusterfuck was personally involved in sayin “It’s more important to meet the fuckin deadline than to actually solve any problems”
He has insured that the ACTUAL problems of Iraq have never been addressed.
Lookin back on it- it would have been better to say…”We’re occupying this place- someday yer gonna get democracy- but not NOW!
The whole democratic process is one that tears people apart- they have to have some built in unity to combat the centripedal effects.
(better yet- stay the fuck out of it).
new thread
TeddySanFran @ 99
I think it’s actually the opposite. I’ve been here almost a year, have disagreed with the Ladies of the Lake on several occasions, but have never once been treated with disrespect. We commenters haven’t always been as kind to the hostesses, and I’m not even counting the stuff we never see (a big thank you to mods. If there is an award for tolerance/forbearance, I think they’ve earned it.
montag @ 125
That was J.C. Watts.
scarecrow @ 129
Well, that only changes the calculation in one respect–Watts has been out of government for years and he wouldn’t know current policy if it bit him on the ass. What were the interviewers thinking even asking him a question for which he couldn’t possibly have an accurate answer? Oh, yeah. Silly me.
montag @
16
Montag on McCain:
That is so painfully obvious, isn’t it. It makes my teeth hurt, like a good analogy should. And, I’d forgotten about the Keating Five–not such a straight shooter after all. It’s almost as if he’s a politician or something ;-}
But, you’re precisely right about the precisely wrong sort of person America needs for leadership right now.
raven at 10:37 am –
Idealistic was a poorly chosen word — but the Viet Minh won the battle for the hearts and minds of the Vietnamese people because they were Nationalists first, and Communists second. South Vietnam was an artificial construct, and dependent on American gold and greenbacks.
The battle for hearts and minds was lost before LBJ sent in the Marines.
What chance did we have to win hearts and minds in Iraq? Slim and none — if we had toppled Saddam while maintaining social and governmental continuity, maybe. But from the moment von Rumsfeld said “freedom’s messy” in response to the destruction of Iraqi antiquities, the cause was lost.
Our first mistake was to invade Iraq at all.
Our second was to do it with too few troops and no post-war plan.
Our third was to create a huge power vacuum by dismissing the civil administration and dissolving the Iraqi army.
Our fourth was we never did a deal with the Sunnis that we could sell to the Shia, or did a deal with the Shia and left them to take care of the Sunnis.
Our fifth was we wasted a huge amount of time and resources to no effect.
Our sixth was we didn’t leave.
montag, your commentary and contributions here are always spot-on and worth reading. thanks.
…
wrt AF1, I was once on a chartered Stretch DC-8 that blew five tires on an aborted takeoff. It’s scary. Not sure how exciting a landing with six blown tires might be for those aboard, but I bet there’s some Preznitchally-sealed upholstery needing Febreze.
http://newsblogs.chicagotribun…..he_do.html
Hugh at 133 — …and we aren’t done yet. Oh joy. Oh frabtacular day.
Oh, and new thread, for anyone who is ready for a fresh bite.
scarecrow @112 – left this for you below
I knew you were not saying it was that simple. I think of you as the Socratic Method Scarecrow. *g*
Re: Japan – you guys will sort it out better than I, but I think that it would have been very hard to get to the eventual outcome we had in Japan if the occupation had proceeded without collaboration from the Emperor. In essence, you had the spiritual leader as well as national leader for a large chunk of the population under the auspices of the US, didn’t you?
Could the US have executed the Emperor and still led Japan to a democracy? If not, then wasn’t the change at least partially driven by the existing cultural force – the religious and political leader’s determination to work with the US?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/m…..MEX99.html
Military, polisci, history etc – none of them are my area, but I think that occupation that coupled a political structure change and regime change is not really what we did in Japah. It seems to me that we worked through the existing regime for it to assist in implementing structural change. Probably from an idealistic standpoint, there were some significant flaws with that approach; but from the pragmatics of making what we attempted something that could be achieved – well, who knows if it could have been done with deposing/execution of Hirohito – I have doubts, though.
Twisted Martini @
22
At least Robert Johnson got to play a mean axe; what’d McCain get down at the cross roads?
JohnSwifty @ 137
McCain said he wanted to run the world, but that’s the devil’s turf, so he made him a senator from Arizona, because the devil knows his history….
Redshift @
46
Well Red,
You make a good case and I’ll not belabour it overly much except to state this: He did, at one point, stand as an example of an American Serviceman who paid a horrific price for his service and came out the other side. That he couldn’t write the final chapter in the story with more truth, class, grit…whatever, well I like a good story and his ends poorly when it could have been so much better and, perhaps, better for the country too. No, there isn’t much to commend the man at this point and there is little enough faint praise to go around anymore; but I cannot think the failure of any potentially good man is a good thing. We might learn from his example–learn what to avoid in terms of hubris, but I’ll persist in feeling pity for him rather than glee that he has sunk to such a place.
montag @ 139
Oh, too good! I bow at your feet!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 101
Christy:
I just want to say: I admire your civil discourse. You’re always reasonable, patient, and accommodating. I really mean that. I think you said before that it takes a lot to piss you off, but once you are: Watch out!
scarecrow @
71
That was not always so, of course. Major factor in consolidating the Japanese national identity was the contrast to foreigners, ‘gaijin’. Still true. Seems we are well-positioned to perform that service in the ME, too?
rwcole @
41
I can hear them now: “Hey, his great-grandfather married WOMEN at least!”
Sure, 6 or 7 at a time, but at least they were women.
Hugh @
88
Saw a clip of Jon Stewart lampooning Nancy Pelosi and was briefly disoriented. Then it hit me again, “Wow, we won!”
rwcole @
10
I stand corrected WRT Chris Dodd, hats off to him.
WRT to the others
What seems to be happening is what I was afraid of…Ned would be thrown under the bus by the vast majority of Democrats and y’all would forget, or say “Oh, it’s ok, move on.”
It is NOT ok. The DSCC AND DLC types are almost as much our enemies as the repukes and I, for one, have no intention of letting them forget their treachery, especially Bitch Barbara.
I have a long memory and I hold grudges.
Not so soon. We can still make the same mistakes all over again: Combining the gradualist approach of Barack Obama (and other Democrats) with Sy Hersh’s New Yorker piece this week raises the ultimate nightmare scenario: Hanging around Iraq, one more Friedman at a time, until the only solution seems to be attacking Iran? Will the Democrats wake up and call a halt to the administration’s plans for Iran before it’s too late?
Not likely. Madison Guy @
147
Not likely.