http://www.2008racetracker.com/page/WV-02

The neocons entire plan for Iraq has completely run off the road and into a big ditch filled with flaming oil, no one wants to sit at the kiddie table with Bushie (loyalty? not!

great post Christi

the only thing I want to point out is that absolutely none of this is ‘hindsight”

every single thing that has gone wrong was predicted, from Powell telling bush “if you break it you own it”, Clark telling him him “invading Iraq would exacerbate the war on terror”, and the generals telling him there would definitely be an insurgency

what I’m saying is that nothing has “run off the road”, the entire process was off the road from the outset, everyone but the PNAC knew this was a ridiculous campaign.

I really don’t like giving anyone and excuse like “bush didn’t do the things that needed to be done”, the thing that needed to be done was we needed to fight terrorism, not Iraq

GSD @ 113

Charles Rangel plans on bringing the results of the Clusterfuck military strategy into every American’s homes.

Rangel talks of draft legislation.

Looks like someone is sitting on a pile of poker chips.

-GSD

I find discussion of the draft unsettling. I understand the “fairness” issue, but the last thing this country needs is more fodder for whatever war our current leadership wants to engage in. Until the nation redefines the “war against terror” and defines a set of principles for the responsible use of military force (whatever that is), I prefer a smaller armed services. After all, McCain just might win the presidency; what would he do with another 200-300,000 troops?

the last thread touched on this, too. i have to disagree with you. we need the draft, one with virtually no exemptions, especially for college students. we might not be in iraq right now if we’d had the draft in 2001. it’s not perfect but people pay a lot more attention to letting a war get started if every family, especially the upper middle class families have to send their children to the military. eighteen to twenty-three year olds would also be a lot more inclined to vote.

TeddySanFran @ 102

Super OfT, but we just saw the very first-ever urban hummingbird stop by our garden. After 10-and-a-half months of stocking the feeders, planting fuschia and geraniums — to NO avail! But today, we saw a south-migrator!! S/he popped in to check out this year’s last geranium bloom, skipped over the fence to bop around the bougainvillea, then scooted outta sight.

My November couldn’t get better, then it did! Cold sweet potatoes this Thursday — thanks and blessings will be much too long-winded to eat hot food.

NO exceptions at all. None.

If we are in a state of war, then members of the dept of peace are shifted over and vice versa.

I would support that.

DonS @
101

Via Steve Clemons again, a BBC interview where we have Kissenger inserting into the “debate” some increasing latitude to save shrub’s butt. They’re at least looking for some newish talking points for the State of the Union perhaps?

http://www.thewashingtonnote.c…..001788.php

Via the link at ‘the washington note’ to a Washington Post article, Mr. K: But Kissinger, an architect of the Vietnam war who has advised President Bush about Iraq, warned against a rapid withdrawal of coalition troops, saying it could destabilize Iraq’s neighbors and cause a long-lasting conflict.

“A dramatic collapse of Iraq _ whatever we think about how the situation was created _ would have disastrous consequences for which we would pay for many years and which would bring us back, one way or another, into the region,” he said.

So…in other words, regardless of the lies repeated by those lying liars who are responsible for this debacle, we need to clean up their mess.

What’s Henry Kissinger have to gain by our staying in Iraq? Where are his $$$ placed?

There is almost always a leap of faith, an unspoken assumption, in these “here are the choices” statements.

On the one hand, we are told that if we withdraw “precipitously” then there will be catastrophe/chaos/death. Therefore we should not withdraw at all.

But neither Kissinger or any one else can credibly predict what happens if we don’t withdraw. It may be that there will be “disastrous consequences for which we would pay for many years” no matter what. But no host ever asks the “experts” the follow up question.

newtonusr @ 118

sofistic @ 115

We can’t just say we were duped, we were not paying attention. Where have the civics classes gone. Our security systems (education, vigilance) have been down for years.

Did you see Maher this weekend? If not, you should. Richard Dreyfuss and the best civics primer in a long time.

Thank you very much. I will look.

OOPS!
I should have looked around – Aravosis has it, or chunks of it, at least…

http://americablog.blogspot.co…..eason.html