FITZ!

Fitz.

Thrid!

Very ful-filling pic (for the shark, we hope!).

How to Recycle Campaign Signs:

http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..onkey.html

“Everybody’s got something to hide, ‘cept for me and my monkey…”

At least Pam has no loyal McVeigh-wannabes that might take her at her word and follow-through with her recommendation…. oh, wait.

She’s getting pretty close to shouting “FIRE” in a crowded theater

thought you might enjoy this:

Connecticut For Lieberman Gets New Chair

She really does stand by her man, our Pammy. Oops I mean men: Bolton and Rummy. I may have forgotten who else.

Olbermann awarded Beck “Worst Person” for saying he “feel[s]” like asking first Muslim congressman to “prove to me that you are not working with our enemies”
On the November 15 edition of MSNBC’s Countdown, host Keith Olbermann named Glenn Beck winner of his nightly “Worst Person in the World” segment

Can’t we try and get her committed AGAINST HER WILL TO A MENTAL HEALTH CLINIC! Watching the guys in white coats case after her could be a pay per view event!

Cory @ 8

thought you might enjoy this:

Connecticut For Lieberman Gets New Chair

It’s a headbanger!

Plop plop fizz fizz…that shark’s gonna have one big belly ache. Yentas are all gristle.

Connecticut For Lieberman Gets New Chair

Ned Lamont gets new couch.

Americans Believed Captured in Iraq Ambush

WASHINGTON, Nov. 16, 2006 — Four Americans are believed to be among 14 people kidnapped in an ambush of a convoy of contractors in Iraq near the city of Nasariyah, defense officials tell ABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/Internat…..id=2659548

I left at the end of the last thread this link:

http://www.usip.org/isg/isg_meetings.pdf

which lists outside “experts” which the Iraq Study Group interviewed. It makes for interesting reading. My favorite WTF are they doing here are:

Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) – Member, Armed Services Committee
Senator Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) – Member, Armed Services Committee
Douglas Feith, former Undersecretary of Defense for Policy
Leslie Gelb, chairman emeritus, Council on Foreign Relations
Thomas Friedman, New York Times
Frederick Kagan, The American Enterprise Institute
William Kristol, The Weekly Standard
George Will, The Washington Post

Hugh @ 15

I left at the end of the last thread this link:

http://www.usip.org/isg/isg_meetings.pdf

which lists outside “experts” which the Iraq Study Group interviewed. It makes for interesting reading. My favorite WTF are they doing here are:

Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) – Member, Armed Services Committee
Senator Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) – Member, Armed Services Committee
Douglas Feith, former Undersecretary of Defense for Policy
Leslie Gelb, chairman emeritus, Council on Foreign Relations
Thomas Friedman, New York Times
Frederick Kagan, The American Enterprise Institute
William Kristol, The Weekly Standard
George Will, The Washington Post

Inhofe? Are they denying global warming, too?

Cory@8-That’s great! How sweet it is.

TRex! not used to seeing you in the daylight hours…Pammy never lets you down, does she?

Hugh @ 15

I left at the end of the last thread this link:

http://www.usip.org/isg/isg_meetings.pdf

which lists outside “experts” which the Iraq Study Group interviewed. It makes for interesting reading. My favorite WTF are they doing here are:

Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) – Member, Armed Services Committee
Senator Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) – Member, Armed Services Committee
Douglas Feith, former Undersecretary of Defense for Policy
Leslie Gelb, chairman emeritus, Council on Foreign Relations
Thomas Friedman, New York Times
Frederick Kagan, The American Enterprise Institute
William Kristol, The Weekly Standard
George Will, The Washington Post

Oh good lord what a list. We’re in trouble. Douglas Feith, expert on cherry-picked intelligence. Joseph Lieberman, expert on crawling back and forth to the gutter with a smug sanctimonious smile on his face. Thomas Friedman . . . I guess one could go on.

MayDaze @
4

Very ful-filling pic (for the shark, we hope!).

Dick Morris is all over it

TRex in the not-late-night. How lucky can we be?
Pammy is just the first wave of self-destructing (how you say?) Reich Wing icons scheduled to go down in flames. Gosh this is going to be an entertaining two years!

Following up on a speculative comment I made in Late Nite about the graymail status of the Libby case, after continuing to read the tea leaves of more new sealed and unsealed filings today:

The CIPA Section 6(c) hearings are not yet concluded. The next (tenth) CIPA hearing has been or will be scheduled, presumably for sometime after next week (when the Judge is on vacation). The Intelligence Community did come through with some further substitutions to allow the government to revise its first (denied) motion of classified-substitutions. Libby has responded to that revised proposal today with a sealed filing, and with a second sealed Memorandum about his proposed CIPA exhibits #71, #100, and #178. #71 seems to be the State Department’s INR memo, which had apparently been allowed in to the satisfaction of both parties (as of a few weeks ago). #178 sounds like it may be an entry from Libby’s notes (which had some apparently-minor IC redactions in it as of a few weeks ago).

The Judge has vacated his (quite-significant and well-analyzed by Christy earlier today) November 13th Opinion about the government’s first Section 6(c) substitution motion, for reasons of clarity, he says (based on an issue raised by the defense about its wording?). He says he will re-issue an amended Opinion about his legal basis for ruling the way he does, probably at the conclusion of the Section 6(c) process.

It’s difficult to tell how far apart the two sides remain, now. The IC still seems to be struggling to meet the defense’s and Judge’s desire for more revealing substitutions. How the Judge will rule in the end will make or break the still-viable graymail dismissal threat, and it now looks like it will be at least another week or so before a decision is made (depends on the timing of the next hearing(s)). A government appeal is still possible as well, if the Judge doesn’t accept the proposed substitutions.

What a torturously drawn-out and time-consuming saga this CIPA process has been in this case, for what is a part of the defense that doesn’t directly refute in any way the charges that have been brought against Libby. [Nine hearings to date, starting September 27 and running through November 15th; and that’s after all the work that was done by the IC as part of the discovery process.] It’s the Libby team madly trying, first, to get an excuse to dismiss the case entirely, and, if that fails, trying to create some sort of reasonable doubt for the jury if the case makes it to trial (and if it meanwhile makes CIA employees work like demons on this, in the bargain, no doubt that’s just fine by Libby too…).

My SPOTLIGHT intro to TRex’s excellent post is below.

Please SPOTLIGHT this post, firepups, if you believe as I do that this issue deserves TradMed’s, and America’s, attention.

Now that the Federal government appears to have arrested the white-powder sender in the Olbermann-Stewart-Letterman-Redstone mailings, and identified him as an admirer of right-wing hatespeakers Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin, attention must be paid to other rightwing hatespeakers, like Pam of Atlas Shrugs, who exhort her admirers to commit violence.

Please read the enclosed post from FireDogLake’s TRex, who includes excellent backup material from Glenn Greenwald, author of the book “How Would A Patriot Act.” There’s a network of religiously-motivated hatespeakers America needs to know about. I consider it the news media’s responsibility to give this trend the light of day it deserves.

Thank you for your attention to this, and for reading the enclosed post as well.

Maybe George Will is there to insure no one can read the final report…

Joseph Lieberman, expert on crawling back and forth to the gutter with a smug sanctimonious smile on his face.

With so many powerful Republicans in the room at once, I bet Joe had a real problem deciding whose boots to lick first.

OfT:
Crazy Uncle Lou Dobbs calls BushCo policy “faith-based economics.”

OT, but I gotta rage against the machine:

EVERY SINGLE MEDIUM WHICH PARTICIPATES IN–THUS EXPLOITING AND ENABLING–THE HYPE OF THE O.J. SIMPSON “CONFESSIONAL” SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES.

I’m yellin’ at you, Charles Gibson.

ccmask @ 17

Cory@8-That’s great! How sweet it is.

Savory bits:

Party history (of CT4Joe): This party was officially formed the day after Joe Lieberman was defeated in the August Democratic primary in 2006 by Ned Lamont. Lieberman
Turned in the required signatures to go with his party organizing committee to declare their intent to form a new political party. Senator Lieberman and his committee did not change their party registration so some suggested that Senator Lieberman may have used the CFL as a gimmick to run twice for the same Senate seat within three months. We who are members of the CFL do not care .
4. We at CFL do care that Senator Lieberman is now turning his back on our party and wants to be called an ?Independent Democrat? even though he was not the nominee from the Democratic Party. He was from our party, Connecticut for Lieberman and he should be identified that way.
5. Many citizens complained about our CFL and one citizen (me) asked the Secretary of State and the Elections Enforcement Commission to rule that the CFL was a fake political party contrived to allow Senator Lieberman to be a sore loser and to keep running after he lost. It was argued that Senator Lieberman had no intention of forming the CFL. State officials ruled that Connecticut for Lieberman was not a one man fake party and that it was legitimate . . .

For punaise’ sake — I will neither forgive nor forget Lieberman’s treachery.

OT – Personal rant so just cursor past.

Just finished reading the downstairs thread about the supposedly (and strangely staffed) Iraq Study Group, and then read that the ‘Blue Dogs’ want to keep Harmon as chair of her committee, instead of Pelosi’s choice. Let the war begin between us progressives and the DLC.

And while we have won some local battles and elected some mighty fine progressives (are we classifying Webb yet as one), the dem leadership is losing the battle to the DLC.

Start my worrying once again. And I was not helped by Hoyer’s conversation with Tweety, other than his statement that Iraq was the reason we did so well in the election. He said the dems were going to work with Bush to find a different policy, considering the safety of troops and Iraqis. Well, that second part could take a very long time. So, no pull out.

Sorry, just venting. Back to reading.

I think I’d rather stick a fork in my eye than listen or look at Pam. Once was enough,I developed a nervous tic immediately after.

Hate is a mental illness,the wingnuts prove it every day.

TRex said-

I’m doing everything I can.

Yes you are and I am going to email clorox with a request for jasmine scented bleach for you.

looseheadprop popped in (the end of late nite thread) with a defend free speech to the bitter end statement this morning. I agree with her wholeheartedly on that point. Inciting death threats/ violence sure makes it difficult.

I still say her problem is she and Bolton had a fight. Response? Wipe out the entire diplomatic class. Problem solved.

We need to take these people DOWN.

NOW.

TRex @ 25

Joseph Lieberman, expert on crawling back and forth to the gutter with a smug sanctimonious smile on his face.

With so many powerful Republicans in the room at once, I bet Joe had a real problem deciding whose boots to lick first.

I’m gonna bet it’s John McCain’s. Sluuurppp!

GrandmaJ @ 29

For punaise’ sake — I will neither forgive nor forget Lieberman’s treachery.

thanks for the reminder, for all of our sake.

“my contempt for Loe Lieberman will never subside”

mui @ 33

TRex @ 25

Joseph Lieberman, expert on crawling back and forth to the gutter with a smug sanctimonious smile on his face.

With so many powerful Republicans in the room at once, I bet Joe had a real problem deciding whose boots to lick first.

I’m gonna bet it’s John McCain’s. Sluuurppp!

that would be John “boot’s on the ground, Joe” McCain

TeddySanFran @ 26

OfT:
Crazy Uncle Lou Dobbs calls BushCo policy “faith-based economics.”

he may be crazy, but he’s got this pegged.

An Angry Old Broad @ 30

I think I’d rather stick a fork in my eye than listen or look at Pam. Once was enough,I developed a nervous tic immediately after.

Hate is a mental illness,the wingnuts prove it every day.

Actually I disagree. As one of the resident experts on being mentally ill, I must say from this tower that hate is in a different location.

I try very hard not to hate anyone, it is bad for the soul.

I do hate the man who killed fellow musician Dale Fredericks, the Marine Corps trombone player, just to steal his car. It’s bad for my soul but I still hate the killer.

Nearly everybody else who has done violence to me and to loved ones I have been able to forgive [NOT FORGET…NEVER FORGET].

Please do not conflate hatred with mental illness. They do on occasion overlap, but one does not create the other. Plenty of mentally well people carry hatred within them.

punaise @ 35

mui @ 33

TRex @ 25

Joseph Lieberman, expert on crawling back and forth to the gutter with a smug sanctimonious smile on his face.

With so many powerful Republicans in the room at once, I bet Joe had a real problem deciding whose boots to lick first.

I’m gonna bet it’s John McCain’s. Sluuurppp!

that would be John “boot’s on the ground, Joe” McCain

I would like to see John’s boots on the ground leading a yellow elephant operation using Lieberman as their hood ornament/mascot.

Also don’t confuse people who are mentally ill with people who are just plain evil [with apologies to my Quaker ancestors, who insist that God’s light exists in everyone. Sometimes that light gets very dim.]

OfT:

watertiger is in transition today. therefore it’s very quiet over there. i sure hope the transit hurries up.

oh, and Tucker Carlson is loathesome. MSNBC is gonna have to make some decisions, soon. Tucker is their Glenn Beck, I suppose.

Pow-wow,

Thanks for your Libby analysis.
Fine work.

Jack

TRex — thanks for spotlighting this. It does deserve some MSM attention.

Folks can also spotlight the orginal Greenwald post by using this link and then pasting in the Greenwald permlink for that post.

Spotlight link for non-FDL posts

egregious @ 37

An Angry Old Broad @ 30

Please do not conflate hatred with mental illness. They do on occasion overlap, but one does not create the other. Plenty of mentally well people carry hatred within them.

I agree. too many people conflate sociopath(Ann Coulter & Rush Limbaugh) with mental illness (which could be one in 10 persons in the U.S. including, family members,& celebrities like Jane Pauly, Ted Turner, Patrick Kennedy, who have a bad illness like bipolar syndrome & try to lead good lives in spite of their illness, & sucky medications.)

Joseph Lieberman, expert on crawling back and forth to the gutter with a smug sanctimonious smile on his face.

With so many powerful Republicans in the room at once, I bet Joe had a real problem deciding whose boots to lick first.

I’m gonna bet it’s John McCain’s. Sluuurppp!

that would be John “boot’s on the ground, Joe” McCain

I would like to see John’s boots on the ground leading a yellow elephant operation using Lieberman as their hood ornament/mascot.

those boots are made for squawkin’
and that’s just where they’ll go
one of these days those boots
are gonna squawk all over Joe.

tuneforg @ 10

Can’t we try and get her committed AGAINST HER WILL TO A MENTAL HEALTH CLINIC! Watching the guys in white coats case after her could be a pay per view event!

This is how the Soviets dealt with people they were uncomfortable with. Let’s not go down that road even in jest, ok?

I am sick to death of our government’s blind support for anything and everything the Israeli government decides to do. I am gawdamn tired of the American taxpayer providing weapons, loans and grant monies for Israeli follies.

Lieberman hubris of the day:

NYT article on the posturing of politicos at yesterday’s Iraq hearing of Armed Services Committee:

With politics as context, Senators clash on Iraq

As Mr. Nelson questioned General Abizaid, the Arizona senator stood up to confer with Senator Susan M. Collins, a moderate Republican from Maine. At this, Mr. Lieberman got up and walked to the Republican side to join them in a brief, chuckling huddle, then ambled back to his party’s side with a glance at his colleagues as if to say, “You watching?”

In his questions, Mr. Lieberman noted that he was “picking up on” points Mr. McCain and Mr. Graham had made.

And this is just fine with me. Just keep it up, Joe, and you’ll become the most despised man in the Senate. Pride before the fall.

egregious,

Two cheers for bi-polar sufferrers.
(one from me, one from my evil,other side.)
Suffering from bi-polar SUX! I know…..

Steny makes Tweety gush.

TRex:

Pam Atlas and Chad Castagana had social PERMISSION given an Administration that condones and perpetuates this kind of behavior. Bush and Cheney make these people feel normal.

Same goes for Minutemen, Glenn Beck, Coulter, Malkin, Ingraham, the Bow-Tie Geek and all the rest. This stuff is out of the closet and the box. The more we expose them for the bigots they are, the faster we rid these roaches from the cellar.

Thank you for your work.

Kiss ass McCain is busy telling us:

WASHINGTON – On the heels of devastating GOP losses, Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record) called on the Republican Party to return to its common-sense conservatism — and implicitly cast himself as the one who can lead the party’s rebirth.

“We lost our principles and our majority. And there is no way to recover our majority without recovering our principles first,…”

What’s next? Hillary telling us that Demos have lost their way, and should to turn to her in 2008.

OfT
CSpan 2 now – Senate Bill 3709 – India Nuclear Deal:
Feingold amends that US restricts nuclear technology help to civilian use only, restricting arsenal upgrades – ReThugs w/ some predictable votes, but some Dems are voting no!

To be clear about comment 43, my words begin the comment “Please do not conflate…”

The comment which appears to be mine is from mui.

Mui–I appreciate what you wrote. There are a lot of people, some of whom are well-known, who are struggling to live a normal life.

Add me to the bipolar group. It is both my energy and my curse. Would I give it up? No, but it creates suffering for sure. Hope it’s worth it for what I can do when manic.

counting down to Wolcott

three…two…one….

Isn’t there any way to legally get at the people like Malkin and Coulter? Free speech is one thing, but inciting to violence is something else entirely. It would seem that with the arrest of the “white powder mailer” there’s something awfully close to a smoking gun. Can’t Malkin be held accountable for what she writes if it has consequences? Or is it all “just a joke, ha, ha,” which is how they seem to slough off any disapproval of their commentary?

And do we think Lieberman will provide a guiding light to peace between the Palestinians and Israel?

egregious @ 45

tuneforg @ 10

Can’t we try and get her committed AGAINST HER WILL TO A MENTAL HEALTH CLINIC! Watching the guys in white coats case after her could be a pay per view event!

This is how the Soviets dealt with people they were uncomfortable with. Let’s not go down that road even in jest, ok?

I’m with egregious. Mental illness can be as disabling as physical illness–with physical like symptoms-& with 100 times the stigma. I can’t even tell you how bad it was for an old childhood friend of mine. He was on so much meds the doctors (in meeting ) joked that they couldn’t believe he was still standing. But he was and completely manic like on speed. It’s physical/chemical imbalance. I applaud anyone who is courageous enough to admit they are bipolar.
Pammy on the other hand is . . .
& Michelle Malkkin is just a sociopath.

i think when jane hamsher’s on her treo she’s not Jane Hamsher with a capital JH!

egregious @ 53

To be clear about comment 43, my words begin the comment “Please do not conflate…”

The comment which appears to be mine is from mui.

Mui–I appreciate what you wrote. There are a lot of people, some of whom are well-known, who are struggling to live a normal life.

Add me to the bipolar group. It is both my energy and my curse. Would I give it up? No, but it creates suffering for sure. Hope it’s worth it for what I can do when manic.

oops sorry screwed up the blockquotes again.

that’s an inherent flaw in zig-busting. unless you scrub all of the commenter names, all comments appear to come from just one person.

TeddySanFran @ 26

OfT:
Crazy Uncle Lou Dobbs calls BushCo policy “faith-based economics.”

Teddy,

I have defended you when others make fun of transgender people. I hope you will consider the impact of your words when you call someone that you disagree with “crazy.”

Lou Dobbs has strongly held opinions. That does not make him crazy imho. Not trying to be either the linguistic police or PC, just attempting to raise awareness about the last group it’s ok to make sport of, now that Webb stands up for so-called rednecks.

Isn’t inciting to riot a crime? or is it just against military regs?

eg: You are right and I apologize because I know better.

TeddySanFran @ 63

eg: You are right and I apologize because I know better.

I totally forgive you. We use words in a creative way. I am just asking us to be creative at a higher level. No pressure :)

Why the f**k do we care what Pam Atlas says or thinks?

dreamcatcher @ 65

Why the f**k do we care what Pam Atlas says or thinks?

Or, for that matter, Malkin or Coulter? The fact that we pay so much attention to these nonentities says something about us…to wit, we got nothing better to do with our short span on this planet.

BAGHDAD, Iraq – The Shiite-led Interior Ministry issued an arrest warrant Thursday for the top leader of the country’s Sunni minority — a move certain to inflame already raging sectarian violence in Iraq.

Interior Minister Jawad al-Bolani, a Shiite, announced on state television that Harith al-Dhari was wanted for inciting terrorism and violence among the Iraqi people.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..1116181325

Thank you for your work.

Thank you for reading, Fe. We’re all doing what we can here to try and stamp out the kind of rhetoric that gives these people the green light to hate openly and persecute people who aren’t like themselves. They’re doing real damage to this nation and to the world. We just do what we can to provide a counter-spin.

dreamcatcher @ 65

Why the f**k do we care what Pam Atlas says or thinks?

Because a lot of people listen to her and take their cues from her, and because they represent a significant part of the support for rightwing politicians, who then pander to them, but the press do not hold either the politicians or the hate advocates reponsible for what this does to political discourse.

Joseph Lieberman, expert on crawling back and forth to the gutter with a smug sanctimonious smile on his face.

With so many powerful Republicans in the room at once, I bet Joe had a real problem deciding whose boots to lick first.

I’m gonna bet it’s John McCain’s. Sluuurppp!

that would be John “boot’s on the ground, Joe” McCain

I would like to see John’s boots on the ground leading a yellow elephant operation using Lieberman as their hood ornament/mascot.

those boots are made for squawkin’
and that’s just where they’ll go
one of these days those boots
are gonna squawk all over Joe.

Are you ready boots? Start squawkin’!

OK Kiddo – fyi- A few replys to a question of yours on the end of the last thread.

I liken the native American struggle against the U.S. government many years ago to the present day struggle by the Palestinians for a homeland. The American Indian lost that fight big time because they were out gunned. The same will hold true for those in Palestine. U.S. weaponry always decides.

dreamcatcher @ 66

dreamcatcher @ 65

Why the f**k do we care what Pam Atlas says or thinks?

Or, for that matter, Malkin or Coulter? The fact that we pay so much attention to these nonentities says something about us…to wit, we got nothing better to do with our short span on this planet.

If you honestly believe that the level/content of political discourse does not matter, then you’re right; we’re all wasting our time. But I don’t believe that.

egregious @ 32

I still say her problem is she and Bolton had a fight. Response? Wipe out the entire diplomatic class. Problem solved.

We need to take these people DOWN.

NOW.

Clarification for my DoD minder: I am referring to Pam, not diplomats, when I say we must take them down. Some of my best friends are diplomats :) Furthermore, I mean by nonviolent methods.

Remember it’s NSA for receiving the signals and creating files, but DoD for analyzing, for example, whether the Quakers, after 400 years of preaching nonviolence, are suddenly going to change their mind.

egregious @ 74

Remember it’s NSA for receiving the signals and creating files, but DoD for analyzing, for example, whether the Quakers, after 400 years of preaching nonviolence, are suddenly going to change their mind.

No one expects the Quaker Inquisition!

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

dreamcatcher @ 66

dreamcatcher @ 65

Why the f**k do we care what Pam Atlas says or thinks?

Or, for that matter, Malkin or Coulter? The fact that we pay so much attention to these nonentities says something about us…to wit, we got nothing better to do with our short span on this planet.

Because someday one of their followers isn’t going to send fake powder. We are pretty good at pattern analysis and trend analysis. Let’s stop something truly evil before it happens, ok?

scarecrow @
47

As Mr. Nelson questioned General Abizaid, the Arizona senator stood up to confer with Senator Susan M. Collins, a moderate Republican from Maine. At this, Mr. Lieberman got up and walked to the Republican side to join them in a brief, chuckling huddle, then ambled back to his party’s side with a glance at his colleagues as if to say, “You watching?”

We’re watching, Senator Lieberman.

Just like we watched you take Mel Sembler’s money like a good little Neocon trollop.

Just like we watched you try race-baiting in the Connecticut primary when you thought no one outside the state was paying attention.

Just like we watched your teacher’s pet act and tongue bath with George Bush.

We’re always watching. Studying you, judiciously as it were.

Enjoy your crumbs of power while they last.

The reich hatespeakers deserve full sunshine, because we know now that the Federal government believes that their words incited an admirer to do: send white powder to targets specified on right-blogs. They will crawl under their rocks — and are doing so now, by ignoring the actions they incited. TRex’s posts are my only window into what they spew, and I appreciate his continued attention. Not for the Walcott ping he’ll get, but for the opportunity his posts give me, via SPOTLIGHT, to further prod TradMed to examine what’s said over there, now that we know that what they said directly influenced (alleged) domestic terrorism.

I’d rather not have to care what they say, and I’d rather ignore them. But since others obey them, they must be called out for what they are.

scarecrow @ 69

dreamcatcher @ 65

Why the f**k do we care what Pam Atlas says or thinks?

Because a lot of people listen to her and take their cues from her, and because they represent a significant part of the support for rightwing politicians, who then pander to them, but the press do not hold either the politicians or the hate advocates reponsible for what this does to political discourse.

For one, Malkkkin has two many envelope licking troops out there like what’s his name. Two, I’m really upset by the right-wing harrassment of Denise Denton that may have contributed to her suicide. Three, these are the people who give cues that it’s “o.k.” to do what was done in Oklahoma or to Matthew Shepherd.

TeddySanFran @
23

My SPOTLIGHT intro to TRex’s excellent post is below.

Please SPOTLIGHT this post, firepups, if you believe as I do that this issue deserves TradMed’s, and America’s, attention.

Now that the Federal government appears to have arrested the white-powder sender in the Olbermann-Stewart-Letterman-Redstone mailings, and identified him as an admirer of right-wing hatespeakers Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin, attention must be paid to other rightwing hatespeakers, like Pam of Atlas Shrugs, who exhort her admirers to commit violence.

Please read the enclosed post from FireDogLake’s TRex, who includes excellent backup material from Glenn Greenwald, author of the book “How Would A Patriot Act.” There’s a network of religiously-motivated hatespeakers America needs to know about. I consider it the news media’s responsibility to give this trend the light of day it deserves.

Thank you for your attention to this, and for reading the enclosed post as well.

wooo-hooo! Well done TeddySanFran!

hey npb! been a while…

ty, npb.

da brat

;>)

scarecrow @ 68

dreamcatcher @ 65

Why the f**k do we care what Pam Atlas says or thinks?

Because a lot of people listen to her and take their cues from her, and because they represent a significant part of the support for rightwing politicians, who then pander to them, but the press do not hold either the politicians or the hate advocates reponsible for what this does to political discourse.

Thank you, scarecrow. Very elegantly stated.

U.S. weaponry always decides.

Yay, us.

scarecrow @ 73

dreamcatcher @ 66

dreamcatcher @ 65

Why the f**k do we care what Pam Atlas says or thinks?

Or, for that matter, Malkin or Coulter? The fact that we pay so much attention to these nonentities says something about us…to wit, we got nothing better to do with our short span on this planet.

If you honestly believe that the level/content of political discourse does not matter, then you’re right; we’re all wasting our time. But I don’t believe that.

These folks are just entertainers. They have no effect whatsoever on how people vote, or what law Congress passes. They just take up space in the mental vacuum cleaners of media-addled Americans. I do not believe for one second these folks I mention have any impact on political discourse.

The way to elevate political discourse is to discuss issues intelligently, not to respond to these folks, and I include O’Reilly, Rush and the lot. I am not sexist in that regard.

This site is 98% on target on the issues. We waste the other 2% when we talk about Atlas, Malkin, Rush, Coulter, O’Reilly and their ilk.

And in what universe is it ok for Ann Coulter to threaten the life of a Supreme Court justice?

Imagine if someone on the progressive side had made such a comment. It would be wall to wall Fox news.

I know it’s courting Secret Service attention up the wazoo to say anything about the President, does that extend to the Justices? Asking our lawyer people here.

Making a distinction between what is legal/free speech/lhp and what is deserving of investigation and PUBLIC SCORN. How can anyone still invite her onto their shows after she has threatened an SC Justice???

dreamcatcher, sure, and Tokyo Rose was just a radio entertainer.

mui @ 9

Olbermann awarded Beck “Worst Person” for saying he “feel[s]” like asking first Muslim congressman to “prove to me that you are not working with our enemies”
On the November 15 edition of MSNBC’s Countdown, host Keith Olbermann named Glenn Beck winner of his nightly “Worst Person in the World” segment

Good for Olbermann, as usual. Beck’s remarks were unprofessional, inappropriate, and purely inflammatory. It’s just as well I’m not Ellison, because I don’t doubt I would instantly have been howling at Beck to produce his evidence or produce his apology. I don’t deal well with insinuations like that, and as far as I’m concerned, it was an unwarranted display of class for Ellison to respond as he did.

dreamcatcher @ 86

This site is 98% on target on the issues. We waste the other 2% when we talk about Atlas, Malkin, Rush, Coulter, O’Reilly and their ilk.

tell that to them at the next Kristallnacht

Waiting for Olbermann.

egregious @ 88

dreamcatcher, sure, and Tokyo Rose was just a radio entertainer.

That’s right, she was an entertainer. She had no effect whatsoever on the morale of our American troops in the Pacific. They knew why they were there, no Tokyo Rose had to tell them. Can you point to a single American soldier who went AWOL because of Tokyo Rose?

dreamcatcher @ 86

This site is 98% on target on the issues. We waste the other 2% when we talk about Atlas, Malkin, Rush, Coulter, O’Reilly and their ilk.

2% waste, you say? Pretty efficient, even by the lax standards of the intertoobs.

;>)

punaise @ 90

dreamcatcher @ 86

This site is 98% on target on the issues. We waste the other 2% when we talk about Atlas, Malkin, Rush, Coulter, O’Reilly and their ilk.

tell that to them at the next Kristallnacht

& unfortunately media matters. Dr. Gerbils thought so.

punaise @ 90

dreamcatcher @ 86

This site is 98% on target on the issues. We waste the other 2% when we talk about Atlas, Malkin, Rush, Coulter, O’Reilly and their ilk.

tell that to them at the next Kristallnacht

When you start comparing Coulter to Hitler, I know you have drunk Coulter’s kool-aid. That is exactly what she wants…to make you think that she matters.

darkblack @ 77

scarecrow @
47

As Mr. Nelson questioned General Abizaid, the Arizona senator stood up to confer with Senator Susan M. Collins, a moderate Republican from Maine. At this, Mr. Lieberman got up and walked to the Republican side to join them in a brief, chuckling huddle, then ambled back to his party’s side with a glance at his colleagues as if to say, “You watching?”

We’re watching, Senator Lieberman.

Just like we watched you take Mel Sembler’s money like a good little Neocon trollop.

Just like we watched you try race-baiting in the Connecticut primary when you thought no one outside the state was paying attention.

Just like we watched your teacher’s pet act and tongue bath with George Bush.

We’re always watching. Studying you, judiciously as it were.

Enjoy your crumbs of power while they last.

His days of crumbs will too soon wind down to a precious few….

Prairie Sunshine @ 96

His days of crumbs will too soon wind down to a precious few….

‘November….December…’

;>)

dreamcatcher @ 86

scarecrow @ 73

dreamcatcher @ 66

dreamcatcher @ 65

Why the f**k do we care what Pam Atlas says or thinks?

Or, for that matter, Malkin or Coulter? The fact that we pay so much attention to these nonentities says something about us…to wit, we got nothing better to do with our short span on this planet.

If you honestly believe that the level/content of political discourse does not matter, then you’re right; we’re all wasting our time. But I don’t believe that.

These folks are just entertainers. They have no effect whatsoever on how people vote, or what law Congress passes. They just take up space in the mental vacuum cleaners of media-addled Americans. I do not believe for one second these folks I mention have any impact on political discourse.

The way to elevate political discourse is to discuss issues intelligently, not to respond to these folks, and I include O’Reilly, Rush and the lot. I am not sexist in that regard.

This site is 98% on target on the issues. We waste the other 2% when we talk about Atlas, Malkin, Rush, Coulter, O’Reilly and their ilk.

Wrong. If you understand the concept of “Overton Windows” (moving the range — and thus the “center” — of acceptable discourse by moving the acceptable limit of the “edge”), then you will understand that the right has managed to yank *ALL* discourse way over in a right-ward direction.

Once extremist hate-mongers (Malkin, Coulter, Savage, etc.) are given the microphone on so-called mainstream media outlets, their rhetoric is given the patina of acceptability. Not so long ago, these hate-spewers would never ever have been given a public platform.

For the most extreme example of what happens when racial and cultural extremists are accepted as “normal” in political discourse, see Rwanda. Or for an earlier era, see post-1933 Germany (led up to by an incessant “Kulturkampf,” the “Dolchstosstheorie” [”stab-in-the-back” theory of why WWI was lost - sound familiar] and the “mainstreaming” of extremist hatred).

For a better understanding of why all these things matter, read David Neiwert’s excellent blog, Orcinus. Or the website of the Southern Poverty Law Center.

yer singin’ my song, darkblack

Hugh @ 15

I left at the end of the last thread this link:

http://www.usip.org/isg/isg_meetings.pdf

which lists outside “experts” which the Iraq Study Group interviewed. It makes for interesting reading. My favorite WTF are they doing here are:

Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) – Member, Armed Services Committee
Senator Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) – Member, Armed Services Committee
Douglas Feith, former Undersecretary of Defense for Policy
Leslie Gelb, chairman emeritus, Council on Foreign Relations
Thomas Friedman, New York Times
Frederick Kagan, The American Enterprise Institute
William Kristol, The Weekly Standard
George Will, The Washington Post

I’m growing less convinced by the belief that the ISG is Poppy sending the boys to bail Dubya out, unless Poppy and Baker have gone seriously senile since 2000. This looks like just a new twist on the same old “Extreme Pig Makeover” theme.

mui @ 43

egregious @ 37

I agree. too many people conflate sociopath(Ann Coulter & Rush Limbaugh) with mental illness (which could be one in 10 persons in the U.S. including, family members,& celebrities like Jane Pauly, Ted Turner, Patrick Kennedy, who have a bad illness like bipolar syndrome & try to lead good lives in spite of their illness, & sucky medications.)

Sorry, but sociopathy (formally “antisocial personality disorder”) is described as a mental illness in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual IV.

Mrs. K8—very well said…and, by the way, nice url.

When you start comparing Coulter to Hitler, I know you have drunk Coulter’s kool-aid. That is exactly what she wants…to make you think that she matters.

Actually, Coulter is now mercifully in decline. She’s been booted from the grown-ups’ table and is now squalling from the foyer. By writing about these shills and their relationship to the media, we are pushing them out there to keep Ann company.

Satire is one of our most powerful weapons in the war against evil. But if you don’t want to read it, dreamcatcher, I heartily recommend that button with the red ‘X’ on it at the corner of your browser window. It should take care of your problem with my writing post-haste.

So the Senate is about to hand over nukes and the technology to India. Boxers ammendment just failed. She wanted India to agree not to share this info with Iran.

Must be a lot of campaign contributions riding on this vote.

dreamcatcher @ 66

dreamcatcher @ 65

Why the f**k do we care what Pam Atlas says or thinks?

Or, for that matter, Malkin or Coulter? The fact that we pay so much attention to these nonentities says something about us…to wit, we got nothing better to do with our short span on this planet.

Seriously, I only know what any of these folks say if I read it here, and I usually don’t bother. I’m not that into celebrities or celebashing, I get no recreational value from getting uselessly incensed. Others may, tha’s fine.

Pam urged the killing of “all the diplomats”, apparently without irony, on a national forum read by thousands. Looks like inciting to murder to me, which is a crime in most countries. That it should draw no noticeable flak from the US law enforcement types strikes me as strange. They’re quick enough in other cases.

Osama Bin Laden is being hunted down and would have been killed without being charged with a crime or tried let alone convicted, except they can’t find him. He probably incited to murder, and may have actually murdered American civilians, although I have read in media reports that he denies it. If there is evidence for more, let hhim be tried fair and square. The SHAC 7 are going to prison for ccampaigning against animal testing. Doesn’t seem fair.

RBG –

Thanks, sweetie! A smart cookie suggested it to me once upon a time.

In spite of my cool url, I got stuck at #195 on the overnight thread. It was a *major* mystery to me. But…oh well!

Hope you’re doing fine!

dreamcatcher –

There are millions of Americans who get a large portion of their news, opinion and perceptions of reality from extreme rightwing pundits, bloggers, and talk-show hosts. To assume there is no connection between this following and the influence they have on political discourse doesn’t seem logical. They “legitimize” extreme views, false perceptions and hostile/pro-war opinions, and these all play themselves out in the political process. I don’t see how one can assume otherwise. If these influence peddlers had no followers, I would be inclined toward your view, but that does not appear to be the case.

To ignore this, or pretend it’s only “entertainment,” is to accept this influence without challenge. Unchallenged hate speech poisons/overwhelms the “rational” conversation you prefer, and as it grows unchallenged, it becomes more and more reflected as accepted conventional wisdom. The insidious influence of Fox News is a direct result of not “talking back” to this and holding up a clear mirror to show its dangers.

And it is not 2% of fdl that Jane/Christy/Pach/Trex, as well as Glenn Greenwald, devote to combating this violent and hateful perspective; it is a lot more. Late nite did a whole series of posts, a few months back, in which folks brought hundreds of examples of this. It is pervasive, but the MSM pretends it doesn’t matter.

Mrs. K8, no 98

Wrong. If you understand the concept of “Overton Windows” (moving the range — and thus the “center” — of acceptable discourse by moving the acceptable limit of the “edge”), then you will understand that the right has managed to yank *ALL* discourse way over in a right-ward direction.

Yes, but the way to move the discourse more to the rational center is to come up with your own sane version of events, not to react to the nonsense of these people. Its like kids in the sandbox, outyelling each other to settle an argument.

The liberal left shows its impotence when all it can do in response to Coulter and their ilk is wring there hands and cry, “What horrible people!”

Get out there and make your own message count.

dreamcatcher @
95

When you start comparing Coulter to Hitler, I know you have drunk Coulter’s kool-aid. That is exactly what she wants…to make you think that she matters.

hyperbolic rhetorical flourish: nolo contendere.

Hummm.

Olberman is soothing my anger somewhat re., the Pelosi-Murtha t’ing.

Ah. KO takes on that ijit cajun’s “Rumsfeldian” remark, with Arianna Huffington at bat.

He’s asking the right questions, whether there is some jockeying for 2008 behind all this slime emanating from Carville.

[edit: I couldn’t help it, I had to do it.]

Arianna on Olbermann. Oh Arianna. You slay me.

time to expose Carville for the rat bastard that he is…

whadda tool!

glad to know things are calmer in oklahoma. here too.

keith soothes, arianna slays.

dreamcatcher @ 95

punaise @ 90

dreamcatcher @ 86

This site is 98% on target on the issues. We waste the other 2% when we talk about Atlas, Malkin, Rush, Coulter, O’Reilly and their ilk.

tell that to them at the next Kristallnacht

When you start comparing Coulter to Hitler, I know you have drunk Coulter’s kool-aid. That is exactly what she wants…to make you think that she matters.

Coulter to hitler? Amazing the shit people will say to win a point. Seems that he was comparing psycho pam, oliely etc to to the propaganda machine that underpinned the fascist.

We ignored them for 30 years and that is part of the reason we find ourselves where we are. You want to ignore the haters, skip these threads. I want to know what the people who hate me and want me dead are up to. For that I thank firedoglake, greenwald and the other progressives who watch these people

Again, in comment 101 my original comment does not appear at all. I am not the author of the section beginning with “I agree, too many people…”

DrPuma is disagreeing with commenter mui, not with anything I said.

Eureka Springs, AR @ 104

So the Senate is about to hand over nukes and the technology to India. Boxers ammendment just failed. She wanted India to agree not to share this info with Iran.

Must be a lot of campaign contributions riding on this vote.

I do find it interesting to see what are the A plus priorities for the Republicans in their waning days of power.

TeddySanFran @ 114

glad to know things are calmer in oklahoma. here too.

keith soothes, arianna slays.

Is it foggy there? I love THE City.

Everybody at the Lake must be listening to KO……….and he’s apparently been listening/lurking at FDL. Talk about hitting ALL the high spots…….tell it like it is, Brother Keith !

How’s this for why it’s relevant what Pammy says? Because reality is what is accepted, aka what you can get away with. If she says “kill all the diplomats” and no one stops her or suggests that this would be murder, which is (ahem) illegal, people will assume that it is OK to actually do it. Maybe not mature, well-balanced people with fine moral compasses (such as ourselves), but people who want to help save the world and to be admired by the people they admire (also, such as ourselves).

Pam is free to say what she pleases within the law, but if it is outside the law she should be stopped — there are legal ways of doing this, this is not the first time such a thing has occured in the history of civilization — and if it unwise or dangerous, and it seems it might be, that should be pointed out. Which I think TRex is doing.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 118

TeddySanFran @ 114

glad to know things are calmer in oklahoma. here too.

keith soothes, arianna slays.

Is it foggy there? I love THE City.

today is chilly, damp, rainy. November. Oh, and dark!

Have we heard before from nightmarecatcher? Lots of sunshine there. Oh, don’t worry, these rightwing people are perfectly harmless.

Nothing can go wrong..go wrong..go wrong..

?

Coulter to hitler? Amazing the shit people will say to win a point.

actually, that’s not the correct comparison. it’s the participants in book burning, etc., that I liken to the people who ingest Coulter’s swill.

“you’ll start wearing blue and brown
working for the clampdown”

dreamcatcher @ 108

Mrs. K8, no 98

Wrong. If you understand the concept of “Overton Windows” (moving the range — and thus the “center” — of acceptable discourse by moving the acceptable limit of the “edge”), then you will understand that the right has managed to yank *ALL* discourse way over in a right-ward direction.

Yes, but the way to move the discourse more to the rational center is to come up with your own sane version of events, not to react to the nonsense of these people. Its like kids in the sandbox, outyelling each other to settle an argument.

The liberal left shows its impotence when all it can do in response to Coulter and their ilk is wring there hands and cry, “What horrible people!”

Get out there and make your own message count.

If you recall, one of the stated reasons that the media moved so far right is that they were deluged with complaints of “liberal bias”. I think that’s false. I think they were bought and paid for…just like Mann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and Pammie. Mind control through better marketing. We on the tubz hang by a political thread. If we didn’t have an alternate source of news, we couldn’t possibly make good choices, except by accident. I think one of the reasons we’re having this discussion is to figure out what influence we can bring to bear on the media to make them stop lying. That’s not a waste of time.

Waccamaw @ 118

Everybody at the Lake must be listening to KO……….and he’s apparently been listening/lurking at FDL. Talk about hitting ALL the high spots…….tell it like it is, Brother Keith !

Or, as my dad’s favorite saying went (whenever I said something he agreed with!), “Great minds run in the same channels!” Best said with twinkle-in-eye.

But there’s truth to it. If you’re paying attention, if you have common sense, and if you care about things like justice, the Constitution, truth, and related values, you’ll end up coming to somewhat *similar* conclusions/insights about the events of the day, no?

Then again, I enjoy thinking that Keith and/or his staff read here regularly.

Hi Keith! Great show!

United Nations rejects plea to acknowledge Jedi religion

TRex, there’s gotta be a tie-in here between Pamalot and the basement-dwelling sci-fi powder guy.

orangejumpsuit @ 123

You are watching the wrong people. You should be watching the people with real power, not these entertainers…keep you eyes on the conservative thinktanks, the Carlyle group, all the people who have the real agenda working beneath the radar, while we convulse about a few clowns like Coulter and O’Reilly. They are just distractions to take you attention off the real power games that go on in the boardrooms.

Somebody just bid $18 billion dollars for Clear Channel. That scares me inifinitely more than Coulter and Malkin. Am I beginning to make sense?

Hi OJS, haven’t seen u in ages. Howzit goin? Yeah, it’s Mitt Romney. Praise the Lord. Truthout has it too, if behind firewal.

We ignored them for 30 years and that is part of the reason we find ourselves where we are. You want to ignore the haters, skip these threads. I want to know what the people who hate me and want me dead are up to. For that I thank firedoglake, greenwald and the other progressives who watch these people.

Amen, klyde. The best I’ve ever heard this stated, in a nutshell. Right on. Er, Left on, rather…

This site is 98% on target on the issues. We waste the other 2% when we talk about Atlas, Malkin, Rush, Coulter, O’Reilly and their ilk.

tell that to them at the next Kristallnacht

When you start comparing Coulter to Hitler, I know you have drunk Coulter’s kool-aid. That is exactly what she wants…to make you think that she matters.

Coulter to hitler? Amazing the shit people will say to win a point. Seems that he was comparing psycho pam, oliely etc to to the propaganda machine that underpinned the fascist.

We ignored them for 30 years and that is part of the reason we find ourselves where we are. You want to ignore the haters, skip these threads. I want to know what the people who hate me and want me dead are up to. For that I thank firedoglake, greenwald and the other progressives who watch these people

You are watching the wrong people. You should be watching the people with real power, not these entertainers…keep you eyes on the conservative thinktanks, the Carlyle group, all the people who have the real agenda working beneath the radar, while we convulse about a few clowns like Coulter and O’Reilly. They are just distractions to take you attention off the real power games that go on in the boardrooms.

Somebody just bid $18 billion dollars for Clear Channel. That scares me inifinitely more than Coulter and Malkin. Am I beginning to make sense?
Hi OJS, haven’t seen u in ages. Howzit goin? Yeah, it’s Mitt Romney. Praise the Lord. Truthout has it too, if behind firewal.

zig freed

Evenin’ all. True story: I was just now enjoying a big bite of my broccoli (alongside some jambalaya), when …

This zeitgeist thing is getting loud!

egregious @ 45

tuneforg @ 10

Can’t we try and get her committed AGAINST HER WILL TO A MENTAL HEALTH CLINIC! Watching the guys in white coats case after her could be a pay per view event!

This is how the Soviets dealt with people they were uncomfortable with. Let’s not go down that road even in jest, ok?

Will the placement of Steny be seen as a bad thing for the netroots? Did the netroots prefer Murtha over Steny? IIRC, Steny has shown symptoms of being a part of the Vichy Dem establishment that the netroots opposes.
Peculiar as it is for the netroots to have preferred Murtha, he was still a candidate more to our liking, if I understand current methodology correctly. Anybody?

punaise @ 130

zig freed

You do that so pretty, punaise.

punaise @ 126

United Nations rejects plea to acknowledge Jedi religion

TRex, there’s gotta be a tie-in here between Pamalot and the basement-dwelling sci-fi powder guy.

Huh. Not sure about that, but they seem to have identified the powder that was in the envelopes he sent.

TRex @ 135

punaise @ 126

United Nations rejects plea to acknowledge Jedi religion

TRex, there’s gotta be a tie-in here between Pamalot and the basement-dwelling sci-fi powder guy.

Huh. Not sure about that, but they seem to have identified the powder that was in the envelopes he sent.

Then it was toxic after all.

HotFlash @ 133

zig freed

You do that so pretty, punaise.

thanks, it’s my noble quest

orangejumpsuit — no, we have to watch them all.

We need to watch the puppets up front, to look for cues at misdirection, or to ascertain how wide they are opening the Overton Window.

We need to watch the puppetmasters in back, to detect their real agendas, or for openings to attack.

I was just reading about the Clear Channel acquisition before I popped back in here at FDL. This could be a very good thing because the acquisition includes the wind off of a sizeable number of radio and television outlets, reducing their reach if not their influence. I’d like to know more about the private equity company acquiring Clear Channel — and I’d like to know when and if the FCC will review this acquisition. (Oh please, let it be the good guys who bought these dorks…)

The tasering incident at UCLA is horrifying.
Thanks to KO for looking into it.

dc at 108 Get out there and make your own message count.

Yeah, just imagine if we had been doing that the last several months. We might have had an impact on the elections.

Barkin’ up the wrong tree here.

Rayne @ 138

orangejumpsuit — no, we have to watch them all.

We need to watch the puppets up front, to look for cues at misdirection, or to ascertain how wide they are opening the Overton Window.

We need to watch the puppetmasters in back, to detect their real agendas, or for openings to attack.

I was just reading about the Clear Channel acquisition before I popped back in here at FDL. This could be a very good thing because the acquisition includes the wind off of a sizeable number of radio and television outlets, reducing their reach if not their influence. I’d like to know more about the private equity company acquiring Clear Channel — and I’d like to know when and if the FCC will review this acquisition. (Oh please, let it be the good guys who bought these dorks…)

Bain Capitol is where Mitt Romney hangs his hat and makes his money. This may well be NOT a good thing.

Admittedly I do not necessarily have the full facts. And I usually am in support of the police. But watching the incident at UCLA earlier today on Olbermann leaves me very, very unsettled.

I also believe that there is GREAT value in standing up and saying, loudly, “No. That is NOT acceptable speech in civil society. It is beyond the pale.”

Lots of folks believe that it’s beyond the pale. If everyone who believes that says it, pointedly, to our media purveyors, then they will back down on shoving it in our faces.

[The whole purpose of serving up deeply fascist, eliminationist rhetoric as acceptable is to make those who “merely” want to slash staff in the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice seem “normal.” Or to make those who “merely” want to make us “show our papers” or accept universal fingerprinting and DNA databases (as opposed to tossing us in internment camps, as the hate spewers suggest) seem “reasonable.”]

In the same way that I refuse to permit others to spew racist epithets in my presence, I see it as my obligation, simply as a decent human being, to call these haters to account in the public square.

And my parents felt the same way about “Father Coughlin” back in the day.

Margot @ 139

The tasering incident at UCLA is horrifying.
Thanks to KO for looking into it.

un -f’ing-believable! just for no I.D.!

Mrs. K8 -

Our links must be on the same wave………came w/in a hair of saying KO has been channeling FDL ;-)

Margot @ 139

The tasering incident at UCLA is horrifying.
Thanks to KO for looking into it.

It’s the topic of tonight’s Late Nite.

Sample paragraph:

It’s important that everyone see this deeply disturbing and disgusting video, but it’s so upsetting that I have to offer major caveats about watching it if you’re likely to get nightmares from seeing the absolute worst aspects of human behavior in action. I was only able to finish it one time, and by the halfway point, tears of rage and horror were welling up in my eyes. Do not watch this with the audio on if there are children who may hear it, that is, unless you’re ready to have one of Those Talks with them about how some people in the world are just bad, evil people who hurt other people just because they can. And then be prepared to hold your kid as they cry.

RevDeb — yeah, I just read that in a DKos diary, but a commenter said that Mitt was no longer involved.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/16/202715/71

We’ll definitely have to do a deeper check on this.

What puzzles me is the spin off component; was Clear Channel worth more broken up? Is this where we need to continue to press, by reducing the value of the Clear Channel outlets that remain?

Margot @
139

The tasering incident at UCLA is horrifying.
Thanks to KO for looking into it.

The younglady reporter for the campus paper, however, could use a wee bit of media coaching about inappropriately smiling for the camera. Excellent that it got the coverage it did, and kudos to her for carefully defining what she’d heard and what she’d confirmed.

Oh, jeez, it’s TomKat time on Keith. I’m hittin’ Billo for a nanosecond….

TRex — thanks for that sample from the transcript.

My tweenager had to turn down the volume on the television during that segment. I’d already told her about the incident earlier tonight, had listened to the YouTube clip and completely lost it half way through.

Validating to hear KO did, too. So f*cking sad, we have soooo very far to go to undo the damage of the last two decades.

How long has it been now since Rodney King, for cryin’ out loud? And they didn’t learn; it’s as if 9/11 gave them permission to be the dicks they couldn’t be after Rodney King and the riots.

Does anyone have a rational explanation why it’s right for Israel to have a homeland, and it is not right for the Palestinians to have a homeland?

AtlasBuggs is bughouse, of that there is no doubt. (Look at who she most admires in all the world–someone else who’s crazy as a shithouse rat.)

But, the roots of this problem go very deep, and George Washington was on them, 210 years ago.

Rayne @ 147

RevDeb — yeah, I just read that in a DKos diary, but a commenter said that Mitt was no longer involved.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/16/202715/71

We’ll definitely have to do a deeper check on this.

What puzzles me is the spin off component; was Clear Channel worth more broken up? Is this where we need to continue to press, by reducing the value of the Clear Channel outlets that remain?

This is way beyond my area of expertise, but I would think it would be a good thing if it broke up into smaller pieces. The question is to what degree Mitt (whether he owns it or not, he is very connected to Bain) has plans to use it to propel his candidacy. It will take time for this story to flesh out, but its implications are very suspect to me.

I linked today’s WaPo article about “no more hunger” in last nite’s LateNite thread — and the USDA guy who wrote the “low food security” replacement words is Keith’s WPITW. Just sayin.

Hi Keith!

oklahoma kiddo — when you find a reasonable, rational answer, let me know. I haven’t found one.

RevDeb — could they be liquidating to obtain cash for a 2008 run? That makes some sense. Promotion of his message? Nah, if that was the rationale, why sell outlets?

Clear Channel also said it plans to sell 448 of its radio stations, all located outside the top 100 markets, as well as its 42-station television group, which are also located in smaller markets. Collectively the properties made up less than 10 percent of the company’s revenues last year.

The acquisition is not dependent on the sale of those assets, the company said.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061116…..html?.v=28

It looks to me like the sell off goes on anyway

Monk in the house!

Monk, your graphics are what brought me to fdl in the first place…Yay you!

Rayne @ 154

oklahoma kiddo — when you find a reasonable, rational answer, let me know. I haven’t found one.

RevDeb — could they be liquidating to obtain cash for a 2008 run? That makes some sense. Promotion of his message? Nah, if that was the rationale, why sell outlets?

Don’t know anything. It will definitely be a story worth watching. The Boston Glob should be following it. We shall see.

Having just gone up top to the actual post:

I’m doing everything I can.

Yes indeed, sir, you are. And related to all you’ve said over the last year, everyone should fix in their minds the recurrent tendency of these people (they make me so furious I can hardly call them by any name whatsoever) to threaten physically, gang up on, surround, and manhandle those who, not just disagree with them, but even just try to present facts—like vote counts or recount orders—that go against their plans. While I still keep faith in positive outcomes and the possibility of working to achieve them, I refuse to lull myself into the position of being surprised by anything they might do.

Monk @ 132

egregious @ 45

tuneforg @ 10

Can’t we try and get her committed AGAINST HER WILL TO A MENTAL HEALTH CLINIC! Watching the guys in white coats case after her could be a pay per view event!

This is how the Soviets dealt with people they were uncomfortable with. Let’s not go down that road even in jest, ok?

orangejumpsuit—we watch for clues. For example immediately after the elections the rightwing media was in disarray. They didn’t have a consistent storyline or talking points as usual. I guess they really weren’t expecting to lose hahaha.

new thread

RevDeb @ 141

Rayne @ 138

orangejumpsuit — no, we have to watch them all.

We need to watch the puppets up front, to look for cues at misdirection, or to ascertain how wide they are opening the Overton Window.

We need to watch the puppetmasters in back, to detect their real agendas, or for openings to attack.

I was just reading about the Clear Channel acquisition before I popped back in here at FDL. This could be a very good thing because the acquisition includes the wind off of a sizeable number of radio and television outlets, reducing their reach if not their influence. I’d like to know more about the private equity company acquiring Clear Channel — and I’d like to know when and if the FCC will review this acquisition. (Oh please, let it be the good guys who bought these dorks…)

Bain Capitol is where Mitt Romney hangs his hat and makes his money. This may well be NOT a good thing.

Bain Capital has some good guys in it. They have a history of investing carefully in firms where they can work with management to make things run more efficiently. Among the top people are individuals who have been involved with getting certain people taken offline from the Catholic heirarchy in Massachusetts in the pedophile scandal.

I speak as a Democrat re the following. Mitt is definitely running, and there are some Very Senior People in Washington who are interested in seeing his candidacy go forward. Would it be better to have McCain? Is their thinking.

Monk you doing ok?

TeddySanFran @ 148

The younglady reporter for the campus paper, however, could use a wee bit of media coaching about inappropriately smiling for the camera. Excellent that it got the coverage it did, and kudos to her for carefully defining what she’d heard and what she’d confirmed.
….

I thought about that too…just really nervous and young. You’re right, it wouldn’t hurt her at all to have some coaching. She speaks well and forms complete sentences, unlike 2 presidents we’ve had. Seems to have checked her facts.

Egregious
No. I have learned not to attempt this with my dog on my lap. He gets jealous when I sit at the computer, jumps on my lap and paws my hand off the keyboard. (He also jumps on me when I read the paper.)
What I have been trying to say is this.
The Soviets had the INTELLECTUALS committed to psych hospitals. I would hardly place Pammy in that category. Although I hesitate to perform a Bill Frist diagnosis…diagnosis by video…I think Ms. Atlas’ videos offer enough evidence to at least warrant a good mental status exam to determine a psychiatric disorder.
And as an aside, I think her indoctrination and use of her children in her propaganda videos borders on child abuse.

Oklahoma kiddo @
46

I am sick to death of our government’s blind support for anything and everything the Israeli government decides to do. I am gawdamn tired of the American taxpayer providing weapons, loans and grant monies for Israeli follies.

Careful, careful. As Mel Gibson found out, freedom of speech in the U.S. does NOT extend to crying “foul” in a crowded theater of war. ESPECIALLY not an Israeli one.

Oklahoma kiddo @
150

Does anyone have a rational explanation why it’s right for Israel to have a homeland, and it is not right for the Palestinians to have a homeland?

Children of a lesser god?

For what it’s worth, Pammy may just get a visit and some harsh stares from the very members of our friendly state security apparatus her ilk are always so keen to enable. I think the last person they dropped in on and gestapofied was a 16 year old redhead honors student in Sacramento, and I’m pretty sure that was for threatening to a lot less than an entire Federal agency. I’d love to be a fly on the wall of that meeting…

Margot @ 139

The tasering incident at UCLA is horrifying.
Thanks to KO for looking into it.

I’ve yet to be convinced that arming campus cops with any weapon more effective than a Super Soaker is a bright idea.

Blub
Are you suggesting that someone has “notified the authorities” about Ms. Pamela’s threat?
If so, are the outcomes of such investigations
made public?

Cory @ 8

thought you might enjoy this:

Connecticut For Lieberman Gets New Chair

Brilliant!!!!

darkblack @ 77

scarecrow @
47

As Mr. Nelson questioned General Abizaid, the Arizona senator stood up to confer with Senator Susan M. Collins, a moderate Republican from Maine. At this, Mr. Lieberman got up and walked to the Republican side to join them in a brief, chuckling huddle, then ambled back to his party’s side with a glance at his colleagues as if to say, “You watching?”

We’re watching, Senator Lieberman.

Just like we watched you take Mel Sembler’s money like a good little Neocon trollop.

Just like we watched you try race-baiting in the Connecticut primary when you thought no one outside the state was paying attention.

Just like we watched your teacher’s pet act and tongue bath with George Bush.

We’re always watching. Studying you, judiciously as it were.

Enjoy your crumbs of power while they last.

What an odious worm of a man. Don’t you think the Senate Dems want to give him a wedgie and then throw him into a locker or the Ladies’ Room?

thanks, TRex, for doing everything you can. I try to read all of your posts, and always enjoy them. Good work!!! You have my deep appreciation.

pow wow @ 22

Following up on a speculative comment I made in Late Nite about the graymail status of the Libby case, after continuing to read the tea leaves of more new sealed and unsealed filings today:

The CIPA Section 6(c) hearings are not yet concluded. The next (tenth) CIPA hearing has been or will be scheduled, presumably for sometime after next week (when the Judge is on vacation). The Intelligence Community did come through with some further substitutions to allow the government to revise its first (denied) motion of classified-substitutions. Libby has responded to that revised proposal today with a sealed filing, and with a second sealed Memorandum about his proposed CIPA exhibits #71, #100, and #178. #71 seems to be the State Department’s INR memo, which had apparently been allowed in to the satisfaction of both parties (as of a few weeks ago). #178 sounds like it may be an entry from Libby’s notes (which had some apparently-minor IC redactions in it as of a few weeks ago).

The Judge has vacated his (quite-significant and well-analyzed by Christy earlier today) November 13th Opinion about the government’s first Section 6(c) substitution motion, for reasons of clarity, he says (based on an issue raised by the defense about its wording?). He says he will re-issue an amended Opinion about his legal basis for ruling the way he does, probably at the conclusion of the Section 6(c) process.

It’s difficult to tell how far apart the two sides remain, now. The IC still seems to be struggling to meet the defense’s and Judge’s desire for more revealing substitutions. How the Judge will rule in the end will make or break the still-viable graymail dismissal threat, and it now looks like it will be at least another week or so before a decision is made (depends on the timing of the next hearing(s)). A government appeal is still possible as well, if the Judge doesn’t accept the proposed substitutions.

What a torturously drawn-out and time-consuming saga this CIPA process has been in this case, for what is a part of the defense that doesn’t directly refute in any way the charges that have been brought against Libby. [Nine hearings to date, starting September 27 and running through November 15th; and that’s after all the work that was done by the IC as part of the discovery process.] It’s the Libby team madly trying, first, to get an excuse to dismiss the case entirely, and, if that fails, trying to create some sort of reasonable doubt for the jury if the case makes it to trial (and if it meanwhile makes CIA employees work like demons on this, in the bargain, no doubt that’s just fine by Libby too…).

Pow wow,

Are these docs hosted on some public site or do I need to pull them off Pacer?