
One last push, right over the cliff.
Okay, by now I'm sure you've heard about this article in the British Guardian newspaper:
President George Bush has told senior advisers that the US and its allies must make "a last big push" to win the war in Iraq and that instead of beginning a troop withdrawal next year, he may increase US forces by up to 20,000 soldiers, according to sources familiar with the administration's internal deliberations.
Mr Bush's refusal to give ground, coming in the teeth of growing calls in the US and Britain for a radical rethink or a swift exit, is having a decisive impact on the policy review being conducted by the Iraq Study Group chaired by Bush family loyalist James Baker, the sources said.
Although I guess it's news (however unsurprising) that Dubya prefers this option to admitting he's screwed Iraq up beyond repair, the emergence of the "one last push" concept was actually first reported a week ago by McClatchy News — I posted about it here last Thursday, and Laura Rozen cited a more detailed version of the proposal taking shape. But that's nothing compared to what Laura reveals in a Los Angeles Times op-ed today:
This past Veterans Day weekend … almost the entire Bush national security team gathered for an unpublicized two-day meeting. The topic: Iraq. The purpose of the meeting was to come up with a consensus position on a new path forward. Among those attending were President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, national security advisor Stephen Hadley, outgoing Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and National Intelligence Director John Negroponte.
. . . Participants were asked to consider whether the U.S. could really afford to keep fighting both the Sunni insurgency and Shiite militias — or whether it should instead focus its efforts on combating the Sunni insurgency exclusively, and even help empower the Shiites against the Sunnis.
To do so would be a reversal of Washington's strategy over the last two years of trying to coax the Sunnis into the political process, an effort led by U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad. . . It's the path of least resistance, according to its supporters, and it could help accelerate one side actually winning Iraq's sectarian conflict, thereby shortening the conflict, while reducing some of the critical security concerns driving Shiites to mobilize their own militias in the first place.
With only a bit of gallows humor, I called this option "probably the closest thing to a humanitarian gesture the U.S. can make at this point" a year and a half ago. And like Laura, I see it matching up with a number of other straws in the wind — the rumored imminent departure of Khalilzad, the upcoming changes in the Iraqi cabinet (which I guessed might be increase the presence of Shiite party loyalists), and of course the general desperation of the situation in Iraq and the Shiites' demonstrated refusal to compromise on sharing power.
What's really intriguing is that it also seems to coincide with hints from Iran about a continued U.S. presence in Iraq not being such a problem for them, at least in the short term. (Like the American neocons/hawks they hoodwinked through Ahmad Chalabi into invading Iraq, the Iranians may have realized that toppling Saddam Hussein was a "catastrophic success.")
Just to be clear, the shape of the deal seems to be this: The U.S., Iran, and the Shiite-led government in Iraq all recognize that the situation there is dire, and there's not much room for playing games any more. In exchange for at least a nominal diminishing of gangster-cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's power (perhaps by taking away some of his faction's ministries), the U.S. will send more troops to try to contain violence in Baghdad — even if this means boosting the clout of the SCIRI party (which is just as brutally theocratic and even more explicitly backed by Iran than Sadr's Mahdi Army, but with which the U.S. has oddly seen as being more amenable to cutting deals).
It's almost unthinkable that a White House where Dick Cheney still lurks would be willing to strike a bargain of any kind with Iran's government — at least not without thinking they have some kind of laughable brilliant double-cross strategy waiting in the wings — but that's what the tea leaves seem to be indicating at the moment.



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SWOPA!
So if Clusterfuck changes his mind about what flavor of Iraqis to kill- or if he constrains his killing to only ONE flavor rather than ALL- does this constitute a change of tactics or a change in strategy?
I think they’re all BOZOS on that BUS!
Thanks Swopa, good news indeed! So nice they are talking about options for Iraq. Hope the purpose is to set the stage for a ‘graceful’ exit. Hm, so that’s where Condi was lately. No Jim Baker though. Without him can it be more than a pity-party?
Good picture- although I am fond of the “CLUSTERFUCK drove the tour bus into a cul de sac” image.
Hopelessly high centered is a good image as well.
Bush:Ok, Ok, I promise I’ll stop drinking after this one. All I want is one last drink.
Baker an Clusterfuck meet- “So if we say that ya oughta get out- YOU’RE gonna say “we oughta send more troops?”
What if WE say “Ya oughta send more troops- then what’re YOU GONNA SAY?
(how reports are written in Washington.)
Who’s gonna tell that first person that protested at the WH with a sign…NO BLOD FOR OIL…they were right?
“Frist person”
Bill must have been undercover.
One last push. Where did we hear that one before? French/Belgian/German borders, circa 1916, if my memory is correct.
That turned out really well, too.
“Our military leaders… have said repeatedly that there is no military solution here. So it seems to me we have got to begin to act as though we believe that….”
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..amp;f=1001
Works for me
Genius strategeryist Lt. Nutsack Assrocket wants one last big push in Iraq. Is this some kind of joke? No shit kidding. The “big push” is a phrase straight out of the movie, Lawrence of Arabia, directed by Sir David Lean.
The words appear while Peter O’Toole’s lead character, Major T.E. Lawrence, is talking to General Allenby in the British headquarters in Jerusalem. Allenby is unaware that Lawrence has been captured, imprisoned and raped by the brutal, sadistic Turk, Bey, and is trying to convince him to lead his “big push” into Damascus.
LAWRENCE
There may be honour among thieves, but
there’s none in politicians.
DRYDEN
And let’s no have displays of
indignation. You may not have known, but
you certainly had suspicions. If we’ve
told lies, you’ve told half-lies and a
man who tells lies, like me, merely hides
the truth, but a man who tells half-lies
has forgotten where he put it.
LAWRENCE
The truth is I’m an ordinary man. You
might have told me that, Dryden, and I
want an ordinary job, sir. That’s my
reason for resigning. It’s personal.
ALLENBY
Personal?
LAWRENCE
Yes, sir.
ALLENBY
Personal? You’re a serving officer in the
field, and as it happens, a damned
important one. Personal? Are you mad?
LAWRENCE
No, and if you don’t mind, I’d rather not
go mad. That’s my reason, too.
ALLENBY
Look, Lawrence. I’m making my big push on
Damascus the sixteenth of next month and
you are part of it. Can you understand
that? You’re an important part of the big
push.
LAWRENCE
I don’t want to be part of your big push!
Someone pointed out that “last push” was used in Lawrence of Arabia- by the brits- who were in a similar situation.
*tilt*
rwcole @ 13
The Big Push: Keeping to script:
http://haveskunk.blogspot.com/…..cript.html
What a maroon.
20.000 troops aint gonna do jack in that place.
It might be enough to secure part of Baghdad.
Can we send him into a time out soon and let some real strategerists have a crack at the plan?
oops- cross post
Here’s the howler- there AIN’T 20,000 fuckin troops ta SEND!
More gasoline on the fire, and we better hurry!
I bet the Saudis are really on board with all that Sunni bashing. What will they get, aside from a Greater Iraq on their border.
I’m sure the Turkish army is thrilled with the prospect, as well.
Clusterfuck- like a guy breakin up with his girl friend- says “Come on- let’s fuck one last time- just one last push- whaddya say?”
Gosh, its the NEW IMPROVED
EL SALVADOR OPTION
rwcole @ 18
Aren’t there some soon-to-be-unemployed GOP Congresscritters who could make themselves useful?
If Clusterfuck thinks that 20,000 more troops will save the day- then why hasn’t he sent em already- no one can stop him. This is bullshit- a negotiating ploy- to make the final settlement look more reaonable.
Somehow, this sounds like a formula for a lot of dead Sunnis.
Hope not.
I doubt that even 20,00 more US troops can make peace in Baghdad.
What’s laughable is that these clowns could come up with anything that is even remotely “brilliant.”
OT- Dorgan on C-SPAN arguing for sanity and restraint vis a vis India nuke resolution. Luger and Biden each say, “none of that for me, thanks”.
Dorgan: My amendment will try to hold India to the terms of the UN resolution on proliferation.
Biden: That’s so 1998.
Here’s how Clusterfuck thinks :
“I’ll give up the 20,000 troops I was GOIN ta send so that I won’t have ta give up any of the ones who are actually THERE..”
It’s all window dressing an bullshit- and there’s never even a bit of thought about really solving ANYTHING.
p.lukasiak @ 22
Duncan Hunter used that very analogy yesterday during a committee meeting. He ended his rant proclaiming its success is in evidence because we now have Salvadorans fighting in Iraq.
The media forgot to cover a story– Clusterfuck went off to southeast asia to anounce a big trade agreement with VietNam- but he forgot to get congress to agree to the change in status before the trip- when he asked- congress said “no”- so Clusterfuck is off for a fuckin week to announce an agreement that DOESN’T EXIST..
Incredible
Wake me when it’s over.
And he’s going to the Nam now!
Clusterfuck asks for Bolton again and gets rapped up the side of the head- by a gooper.
The mood’s not so good on the gooper side of the aisle.
When is Biden going to realize that he has not even the slightest chance of being nominated, let alone winning, the Presidency? Understanding this may prevent him from making an even bigger ass of himself in vain pursuit of some “winnable centrist strategy” that exists only in his own head.
The Ramones;
I wanna be sedated.
rwcole @ 30
This truly has been the worst blunder ever.
I blame Clinton. All that peace and prosperity made America susceptible to fundie con-men.
raven @ 31
Only about 35 years too late.
Are they still takin prisoners in the Nam?
OT Can yoiu believe that the WSJ actually published this piece by Jim Webb?
http://www.opinionjournal.com/…..=110009246
I thought that the WSJ opinion page was wingnut territory only.
Hypothetically
If Clusterfuck is taken prisoner in the Nam– would they waterboard him? Would it be torture?
Morris Sheppard @ 36
The Beer Hunter
Urban Pirate -
Just wanted to say thanks again for all your help last week. I hope all is well.
Yea, if we’d have had guys like him who knows, Charlie might have chieu hoi’d like a mamajama!
Bustednuckles @ 34
rwcole @ 18
What’s that I feel? Feels like a cold breeze blowing through the Army Guard and Reserve.
rwcole @ 32
Not only that:
“After calling for bipartisanship, President Bush surprised Senate Democrats with plans to renominate a controversial list of judges – some of whom may be unacceptable even to a few Republican senators.”
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/…..-nominees/
A little OT but too good not to share (from Foomkin today):
“Julie Mason blogs for the Houston Chronicle that this joke is in circulation:
“Q: How is Vietnam different from Iraq?
“A: Bush had a plan for getting out of Vietnam.”
Clsterfuck playin
“I am NOT a lame duck- look at all the shit I can stir up– watch it or I’ll hit ya with feces!”
(It’s the repsonse of sociopathic criminals once they are behind bars).
Now that we’re choosing a side, will we finally call it a civil war?
Somebody please tell me why America likes Shiites better than Sunnis. Folks are going to be asking . . .
God, they are still trying to make a tempest in a teapot over the majority fight on MSNBC
rwcole @ 39
Would CNN air it? Would they do it live or recreate it in animation?
I really think we can win this war if we insert 2 million more troops.
This “last push” is a PR effort by The White House to say to the military — “We back you and still want to complete the mission.” And if it doesn’t happen, they’ll blame the Democrats and say that the Democrats hate the military.
punaise @ 40
Go ahead. Make me laugh.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 49
Or as the Daily Show put it, a big money shot.
It would be torture for the Vietnamese! Imagine their translators trying to figure out WTF he was saying!
Eureka Springs, AR @ 49
Olbermann does interesting work with cardboard puppets.
Morris Sheppard @ 52
sorry about your “Mao!” spat
Incoming members of the “New Democrat” coalition:
Gabby Giffords (AZ-8)
- Michael Arcuri (NY-24)
- Ed Perlmutter (CO-07)
- Joe Courtney (CT-02)
- Ron Klein (FL-22)
- Tim Mahoney (FL-16)
- Joe Sestak (PA-07)
- Heath Shuler (NC-11)
- Bruce Braley (IA-01)
- Chris Carney (PA-10)
- Nick Lampson (TX-22)
- Jason Altmire (PA-04)
- Kirstin Gillibrand (NY-20)
- Baron Hill (IN-09)
- Chris Murphy (CT-5)
- Patrick Murphy (PA-8)
I am ready to vomit.
Vietnamese are going to unveil a memorial to the aviator who never made it to the war– the missing aviator.
So when will Kurdistan join the UN?
Sparkles the Iguana @ 11:40 am (#50)
That might work, if there two million more troops to send, and if they were similar in quantity to the ones we have there already. I suspect that would take about a decade to accomplish.
I realize you’re kidding, of course, I’m just pointing out why.
rwcole @ 18
“In addition, the U.S. and R.O.K. (South Korea) agreed to move 12,500 of the 37,500 U.S. troops out of Korea by 2008.”
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2800.htm
Perhaps this is where they would be coming from.
Bullseye as per usual Swopa, thanks.
Vietnamese fighter pilots to fly the missing plane formation in Clusterfuck’s honor.
Maybe there is still a seat on Hanoi Jane’s AA mount.
Vietnamese cookin up special CHICKEN dinner in Clusterfuck’s honor.
rwcole @ 11:45 am (#58)
It will reportedly be in the shape of a champagne glass holding a delta-winged plane.
rwcole @ 63
Also in his honor, one of them will crash upon landing back at base, just prior to the ritual keg party.
Vietnamese tour guides to arrange tours to old US air force bases that Clusterfuck never lived in.
Is George going to announce “Mission Accomplished” on his trip back from Vietnam?
-GSD
rwcole @ 65
Is he staying at the Hanoi Hilton?
Maybe he could have McCain’s old room.
OfT per Louisian Girl above, don’t know anything about this New Democratic Coalition
Clusterfuck plannin to give his famous- “We would have destroyed you if the liberal press hadn’t poisoned the minds of americans” speech to Vietnamese…
Vietnamese teevee plans to cover the whole visit- on the comedy channel. right after the show on southern cooking.
Louisiana Girl @ 57
What is wrong with just being a damn “Democrat”. Why the need to get cute with “blue dogs” and “new” and “yellow dogs”.
These “special clubs” are a testament to the need of certain representatives to take part in an even more “exclusive” group.
Being a Democratic member of the House isn’t enough for these people.
And isn’t it a slap in the face to the other Democrats that these people feel the need to form their “special” club so they can separate themselves from everyone else in their party?
It is all so freaking Liebermanesqe.
John Casper @ 71
read this press release from the New Democrat Coalition. According to the NDC, “Tuesday’s election gains came overwhelmingly from centrist Democratic candidates. These new members will join the over forty member strong House New Democrats to bring a commonsense center to Democratic policies and be critical players in passing legislation to help middle class families, keep America secure and ensure our economic competitiveness.”
Vietnamese plan to give Clusterfuck ceremonial robe- filled with ceremonial bloodthirsty fleas.
*xyz @ 73
xyz, we are in complete agreement. i am so glad i did not donate to any of these candidates, although i did contribute to many others.
YARMUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ignore them goopers behind the curtain tellin ya that the only dems that got elected were really goopers- it ain’t true- they’re dems.
Atrios has some good news:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Kate Szostak
November 16, 2006 202-224-5372
DODD: EFFECTIVE TERRORISTS PROSECUTION
ACT WILL BRING TERRORISTS TO JUSTICE;
HONOR AMERICA’S GOOD NAME
Washington- Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT), an outspoken opponent of the
Military Commission Act of 2006, today introduced legislation which
would amend existing law in order to have an effective process for
bringing terrorists to justice. This is currently not the case under the
Military Commission Act, which will be the subject of endless legal
challenges. As important, the bill would also seek to ensure that U.S.
servicemen and women are afforded the maximum protection of a strong
international legal framework guaranteed by respect for such provisions
as the Geneva Conventions and other international standards, and to
restore America’s moral authority as the leader in the world in
advancing the rule of law.
“I take a backseat to no one when it comes to protecting this country
from terrorists,” Sen. Dodd said. “But there is a right way to do this
and a wrong way to do this. It’s clear the people who perpetrated these
horrendous crimes against our country and our people have no moral
compass and deserve to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But
in taking away their legal rights, the rights first codified in our
country’s Constitution, we’re taking away our own moral compass, as well.”
The Effective Terrorists Prosecution Act:
* Restores Habeas Corpus protections to detainees
* Narrows the definition of unlawful enemy combatant to individuals who
directly participate in hostilities against the United States who are
not lawful combatants
* Bars information gained through coercion from being introduced as
evidence in trials
* Empowers military judges to exclude hearsay evidence the deem to be
unreliable
* Authorizes the US Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces to review
decisions by the Military commissions
* Limits the authority of the President to interpret the meaning and
application of the Geneva Conventions and makes that authority subject
to congressional and judicial oversight
* Provides for expedited judicial review of the Military Commissions Act
of 2006 to determine the constitutionally of its provisions
“We in Congress have our own obligation, to work in a bipartisan way to
repair the damage that has been done, to protect our international
reputation, to preserve our domestic traditions, and to provide a
successful mechanism to improve and enhance the tools required by the
global war on terror,” Dodd said.
http://atrios.blogspot.com/200…..8466158828
Stu(pid) Rothenberg chimes in on Pelosi. It is of course a big “win” for the Republicans and a “crushing” defeat for Pelosi.
Beltway blather.
-GSD
Cujo359 @ 60
I was half kidding.
If we had 2 million troops to send, and if it would mean we could win this war in 6 months, I would say send them. Ten years is another matter.
What I don’t understand – and maybe it will take two decades and a hundred historians to find out – is, Bush is always saying he would put more troops in if the generals asked for them. All the generals who have spoken or testified publicly have said they didn’t see a need for more troops.
Why didn’t they see a need? Have they actually thought for the last 2 years that they could win this war with 140,000 troops?
Vietnamese special meal for Bush.
Stewed chickenhawk with sour Pickles.
-GSD
Vietnamese: We’re glad you were not C in C in the ’70s.
Bush: Huh?
Vietnamese: You fuckers might still be here.
greenboy says:
A brief glance at looong-time incumbent Hoyer’s voting record shows him to be a run-of-the-mill ‘old school’ House Dem – you know, the kind that goes-along-to-get-along, with a few basic principles (pro-choice, pro “safe” environmental issues, indebted primarily to business (mostly lawyers) to fund his campaigns. And like most of the Dem House ‘Old Guard,’ during the Reign of the Reptiles he was happy to cross the aisle on numerous occasions to vote for various odious pieces of shit legislation like the Patriot Act, hand-outs to agribusiness and the open checkbook to Shrubya’s various Jingoist Follies.
Now let’s see if Pelosi has the balls Hoyer lacks, and is able to whip boys like him and the other ‘Old Guard’ on her side of the aisle into some semblance of discipline.
I wouldn’t expect to see any real progressive initiatives coming out of Congress in the next 2 years under her leadership. But we should demand that at least they all bloody-well vote together as a team!
“35 years ago, Daddy Bush helped George W avoid going to Vietnam by putting him in the Air National Guard in Texas.
Today, Bush is going to Vietnam to avoid going to Washington.”
Thanks Louisiana Girl, it sounds like a big shout out to lobbyists that they are “open for business.”
Clusterfuck’s last stand…
Jack
*xyz @ 78
If it passes, I see the veto pen coming out for the second time. I expect to see a lot of the veto pen in these next two years.
John Casper @ 84
that sounds about right.
The truth about how we got to where we are in Iraq is almost too painful for the press to contemplate.
For example- Rummy wanted to get in and get out- remove Saddam and then boogie- so he refused to plan for a long occupation- cause there wasn’t one in his scenario- and no one in the White House told him to do otherwise. Time after time- key player in the docudrama just went their own way without communicating with ANYONE- and the president said NOTHING.
*xyz @ 78
That is good news. Let’s hope the Democrats have enough spine to pass this.
So Dodd is introducing this legislation to THIS congress- not the next? Wonder why!
saint dodd
TPM:
rwcole @ 90
It might be a good way to flush out new allies and to see who may be willing to dance.
-GSD
GSD
Best that the legislation could hope for is to make it all the way to the veto pen- but it will get lots of press.
When exactly did Bush make the FIRST big push ?
Here’s the deal. Escalate the violence in Iraq by taking sides in a civil war, wait two years while ‘Staying the Course’, then blame the resulting mess on the Democrats.
Two years from now, who will remember these steps were taken before the Dems took power.
I’ll wager my liberal credentials that this has to be the scheme.
Now that there are Dems to question, Matthews is back to not letting anyone answer any questions.
Hardball back on after a brief Republican respite.
-GSD
first big push was into a diaper.
Given his joking around about his “younger days” when he visited Katrina-ravaged New Orleans, I live in abject terror of what Georgie might say this week in Vietnam.
Clusterfuck won’t, of course, be doin any pushin. He’ll be “leading” the pushin efforts.
“PUSH you motherfuckers- PUSH!”
that’s how Clusterfuck leads.
Hey… just a quick apology for not being able to participate in the comments here. But if you have any questions for me, I should be around again at 6pm.
Kozmo @ 95
You mean putsch.
-GSD
rwcole @
65
You sure it ain’t crow.
“Abramoff, inmate No. 27593-112, was delivered to prison out of sight of reporters and camera crews. He will be held at a 334-bed, minimum-security prison camp.”
Time to atone, reflect and perhaps write a book?
Jack
Sparkles the Iguana @ 80
I think Taylor Marsh has answered this fairly well. Rumsfeld made it impossible for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and his deputy to talk to the President directly, which is something they are supposed to be able to do according to the Goldwater-Nichols Act. Thus, the generals publicly supported the position of their commander (Bush), without the commander actually being informed what the generals actually thought of Rumsfeld’s cunning plan.
http://www.taylormarsh.com/arc…..p?id=24838
This may not be the complete explanation, but it’s part of it.
I’ll also add that if you asked most generals whether the force we had over there at the start of the war was enough to defeat the Iraqi Army, they probably would have said it was. It was the occupation afterward that seems to have been the sticking point. Rumsfeld eventually told his generals not to even talk about an occupation, that this wouldn’t be a problem. Presumably, he thought that Chalabi and Co. would be picking up the reins from there.
As for the two million troops doing any good even if they were available, I tend to doubt it. Things have gone so far south over there that it’s hard to believe any amount of outside force could fix it, at least not without tremendous amounts of bloodshed over a protracted period. Iraq is a country that is so used to brutality from its government that it’s hard to imagine them working things out in any other way. They don’t seem to respect us any more, and I doubt they’d respect a truly international force under the U.N., either. I’m no expert on the Middle East and don’t claim to be, but after watching this for this long and seeing the reports sent back, it’s hard to escape these conclusions, particularly when many of the people on the ground over there seem to be saying the same thing.
Still, like you, if I actually thought it would do any good I’d be supportive of the idea. We helped create this mess, and we certainly bear a responsibility for cleaning it up if we can. I just don’t think it’s possible at this point.
Don @ 103
watertiger:
mc @
45
I emailed that joke to the Prairie Home Companion joke show a year ago.
Per Billmon one of the conservative new democrats
Maybe we’ll get lucky and Stupie will wind up in a room full of mirrors, all of which point to a doorknob.
No more pushing. It’s time for a Caesarean.
Vietnamese who serve Clusterfuck while he’s in country have been trained to make chicken sounds at low volume for his entire stay- and flap their arms slightly after the manner of a Hanoi Hen.
Buckk–buckbuck buck!!!
feingold has a GREAT line angle;
[[araphrased]
“we had better examine any advise given by the generals who have been consistantly wrong”
pretty sage advise rigt there I me thinks
perris, formerly known as me to me, @ 12:27 pm (#112)
I think blaming the generals for the decisions Rumsfeld made regarding Iraq is as wrongheaded as blaming the CIA/DIA for their decision to go to war in the first place. In both cases, Bush and Rummy heard what they wanted to hear, even if what they heard wasn’t even part of the conversation.
Wow what a storm we just had [east coast]. The gales of November came slashing indeed.
from Sidney Blumenthal’s salon.com piece
egregious @ 114
been blowin hard here too. (West Coast)
Heard on the news this morning of a 100 mph plus gust yesterday on a peak about 40 miles from Portland.
c&l has this up and my chest swells with pride once again for what America stands for;
Tweety:
Back to giving handjobs to the Republicans and backhands to the Democrats.
What a predictable asshat.
-GSD
egregious @ 12:33 pm (#114)
We had one out here in the Northwest yesterday, and I hear we’ll be getting another over the weekend. It’s that time of year.
egregious @ 114
Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
I wonder if a pan-ME mutual defense treaty organization that goes beyond on the old NATO format could be a possibility here. Iran and the US take the lead, with *everyone* else in the ‘hood a party to the organization. It’d be hard work, but a mutually committed and mutually involved group of diplomats from all the interested parties meeting daily to work out the details of peace and fairness in Iraq could potentially spread a new way of resolving issues throughout the region. It certainly beats closing your eyes and wishing real hard.
Just a thought.
fitz fix from msn
Haraz N. Ghanbari / AP file
Former White House aide I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby has joined with Vice President Dick Cheney in asking a judge to dismiss a civil suit accusing them of conspiring to destroy the career of a CIA employee.
View related photos
INTERACTIVE: WHO’S WHO
• Click to see who the players are in the CIA leak investigation
Getty Images
• National overview
• Senate
• House • Governor
• State results
• Exit polls
By Joel Seidman
Producer
NBC News
Updated: 28 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – For the past few months all the public could know about the goings on during numerous closed-door hearings in Courtroom #16 were from one-line court filings indicating the proceedings were dealing with requests from I Lewis “Scooter” Libby – Vice President Cheney’s former chief of staff – to include classified materials in his defense of perjury and obstructions charges in the CIA leak trial.
Next month all that will change. Judge Walton will give the public a peek at the issues he has had to rule on concerning the thousands of classified document in question.
Until now carts full of sealed boxes entered and exited Judge Reggie Walton’s courtroom, grey-suited CIA document specialists accompanied them, and court security officers roamed the hallways on the sixth floor of the E. Barrett Prettyman Federal courthouse, but both the prosecutors and defense attorneys were mum on exactly what was going on. All the public knew from the filings was that it was a tense courtroom drama that was unfolding inside.
Story continues below ↓
——————————————————————————–
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The judge, in a ruling, acknowledged that he has been forced by law to keep the public out. He writes, “While this Court has strived to make the proceedings in this action as transparent as possible, because the defendant seeks to introduce at trial evidence that is currently classified, this Court has been required to close to the public may proceedings and seal a substantial number of pleadings.”
In today’ ruling, Walton ordered the CIA and Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald to begin a review of classified court filings and transcripts of closed hearings related to requests by I Libby, who is seeking to introduce certain classified documents at trial. Walton said he wants the government to provide him redacted versions so that the public will have an opportunity to view them.
Click for related content
Cheney, Libby ask dismissal of civil suit
Libby can use some secret documents
Video: Cheney declines comment on CIA leak
The judge also ruled on how much classified evidence must be made available to the Libby defense team in the C.I.A. leak case, but nearly all of the ruling was sealed so it is not clear what records must be admitted.
Judge Walton wants the national security agencies to review his opinion on the classified evidence made available to Libby, papers filed by both parties, and transcripts of all the closed hearings, and report back to him on what can be released by Dec. 1.
Again today, in federal court, the prosecution and Libby’s lawyers are jousting, in a closed hearing, over how much the secret documents must be redacted to preserve national security but still provide a fair trial to Libby.
Prosecutors say Libby is trying to get the case dismissed by demanding so much sensitive information that the government has no choice but to refuse. The legal gambit is called “graymail.”
Earlier this week Walton handed Libby a legal victory by allowing him to use at trial some classified material. Libby’s legal team has been in a protracted battle with Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald over Libby’s desire to present classified documents at trial portraying him as so consumed by matters of national security importance in the summer of 2003, that any mistakes he made remembering his conversations with three reporters about Valerie Plame were, “inadvertent and not the product of willful disinformation.”
Judge Walton ruled that the substitutions and summaries of classified documents which Fitzgerald has offered the Libby defense team – instead of their using actual classified documents at trial – are inadequate for them to put on a proper defense. Walton ordered Fitzgerald to “go back to the drawing board and come forth with a more balanced proposal.” But Walton warned Libby that his ruling, “does not give the defendant ‘free reign’ over his testimony.”
At issue are classified daily intelligence briefings (PDBs) and terrorism threat assessments (TTMs) which Libby wants to use as evidence to show he was so preoccupied with sensitive national security matters that he did not remember – what his lawyer’s describe as “insignificant” – details about his conversations with reporters about Valerie Plame, the wife of former Amb. Joseph Wilson. A majority of those PDBs were attended by Libby and the Vice President.
Fitzgerald has spent three years investigating whether officials in the Bush administration revealed Plame’s CIA job to reporters. Nobody was charged with the leak itself.
Libby’s trial is set to begin in January 2007.
Fitz!
TforToby:
Two years from now, who will remeber these steps were taken before the Dems took power.
We will.
punaise @ 115
Tony Blair has only been saying this for 4 years.
Although off topic in this post, I thought that this AP story, which I originally found in the online edition of my local paper, would be of interest:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usla…..31,00.html
cleter @
120
Edmund Fitzgerald went down 31 years ago last week.
-GSD
LindyH @ 124
Be ashamed to die unless you have won some victory for humanity. Horace Mann
we know we made a differance and that is really all that matters to this poster, it’s becuase Jane, her lake, of you, me and everyone of us firedpgs that America was able to rise like the great pheomix, spread her mighy wings and reclaimed her constitution.
clem @ 47
Pardon the intrusion, but are you the clem formerly known as “uh… clem”? I’ve been missing him lately.
Dildo Bill-O living up to the moniker O’Lie-ly.
He claims that Fox News has nothing to do with Fox Networks.
What a maroon.
-GSD
There are roughly 1,000,000 deer hunters in the woods here in Michigan over the next two weeks.
This state roughly 1/2 the size of Iraq.
And save for the one that sleeps in my bed (minus camo, I might add), I could go all two weeks and never actually clap eyes on a hunter clad in camo or international orange.
Now ask how much of a difference 20,000 troops might make in Iraq.
Bustednuckles @ 116
Not to mention 6-foot tsunami waves from Japan hitting Crescent City, California, yesterday afternoon. Mother Earth’s pissed off.
Incredible. As if “one more push” can win it, like it’s the Battle for Tobruk or something.
Gawd, we gotta moron in the white house.
Probably the US would get along better with the Sunnis- they’re better educated and used to being in charge- so they can deliver on what they promise- they are likely more westernized and better at kissing ass.
The only problem- from Clusterfuck’s point of view- is that there aren’t enough of em- unless ya give em lots of tanks and weapons of mass destruction- they can’t hold the country together.
We should just turn the whole country over to the Kurds.
Excellent swopa post, and my apologies for putting the last paragraph through the looking glass, but:
Rayne @ 131
I was REALLY wondering what that fuck that number means, 20,000 troops means absolutely NOTHING
they need the troops to finish up something else because 20,000 soldiers means absolutely nothing to the Iraq initiative
that 20,000 is for something else, sommething personal that they need to finish
rwcole @ 134
my opinion is the entire “stay the course” strategy was to uethanize teh sunni’s, that’w why we trained teh death squads…the administration thought Iraq would be better off without them
The generals said they can’t support 20,000 in-country for any length of time at all without another 80,000 (they also don’t have) backup/rotation troops.
Taylor has a NEW Thread.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..p/#respond
Teddy — you just made my follow-up to perris.
If it were only an additional 20,000 troops in total, that would mean no more than 5,000 additional troops actively on patrol; two shifts have to sleep/eat and another shift has to maintain the first three shifts.
Stupid, moronic dweebers in office, and even stupider dweebs nodding their heads YES as hard as they can.
Successive Israeli governments have been playing us for suckers. And vice versa. Well, we do have Lieberman. And chaos in the Middle East. My gawd.
perris, formerly known as me to me, @ 137
If you want a medium-sized city destroyed, 20,000 people organized into an armored or mech infantry division would be really good at doing that. But, as Rayne alludes, what we’re really talking about here is how much presence can 20,000 people have in a country that size, or even in a city the size of Baghdad. My answer is “none worth mentioning”.
Rayne @ 131
20,000 troops wouldn’t mean a thing. I forget the exact figures I was reading, but in order to properly keep the peace in a country after war it was something like 20 troops for every thousand people and doing the math for Iraq’s population, it came out to 500,000.
Which we don’t have and can’t get … unless Dumbsh!t gets on his knees and asks for an international force for help
Holding a losing hand, Dubya decides to double down…
LindyH @
124
We will, but I think that’s the Rovites’ plan.
Swopa — If I understand the “one last push” approach, its essence is to both allow the Shiites to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing on the Sunnis and, worse, to help them do it. Or if that seems too extreme, then to crush them so thoroughly that they simply give up — for which there are almost no successful examples. Am I missing something?
There is a powerful post by Glenn Greenwald earlier today, in which he argues, among other things, that there is no rational discussion of realistic options going on at any level. Glenn concludes with this:
Afghanistan and al-Qaeda: Together Again
Notice that once again, there is a major crisis going on in the United States, that cries out for Presidential leadership, and the President is nowhere to be found.
In the meantime, he leaves a nation bogged down in an unnecessary and grossly mismanaged war, that is spinning into chaos and wide-spread sectarian kidnapping, torture, murder and neighborhood-by-neighborhood “cleansing,” with no credible scenario for resolution or even graceful exit.
I don’t understand why the entire nation is not demanding that the Bush/Cheney administration leave office, immediately. The only “last push” that makes any sense is to drop-kick these criminals out of office.
For a disturbing look into the “unity” government’s Ministry of Interior, watch The Death Squads
This is the side Bush is taking?
Bush has no personal stake in the outcome in Iraq. The family trust has been fattened nicely and there are no family members serving there. Win or lose, Bush doesn’t care anymore.
john in sacramento — didn’t Shinseki originally estimate 320,000 troops needed to do this right?
The number sounded intuitively right to me, in part because we did not have issues in northern Iraq, the Kurds being moderately autonomous already (my stepson was stationed in northern Iraq for a bit, indicated they were helpful, little need for policing). The 300K-plus would have been intended for more populous regions in Sunni and Shia areas, with special focus on areas that were mixed.
I just can’t figure out how we ended up on the finally number of 130K-150K, given that Israelis had penetrated our intel (see Larry Franklin) and Iran had penetrated our decision making (see Chalabi). How did this ridiculous insufficiency work for either of these groups?
Cheney’d cut a deal with Iran or anyone. Remember Poppy cut the original deal to avoid the original “october surprise”.
They were worried carter would get the hostages free before the election so they cut a deal with Iran that guaranteed they would remain hostages until after Reagan was sworn in.
The real shit is gonna hit the fan now!!!!
Report: Iraqi government orders arrest of top Sunni cleric
BAGHDAD (CNN) — The Iraqi Interior Ministry on Thursday issued an arrest warrant for Hareth al-Dhari, who heads the influential Sunni Association of Muslim Scholars, a group of top Sunni religious leaders, military officials said.
Brig. Gen. Abdul Karim Khalaf told CNN the warrant accuses al-Dhari of violating Iraq’s antiterrorism law by inciting sectarian violence and killings.
Al-Dhari has been a strong critic of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki’s Shiite-dominated government. (Posted 4:05 p.m.)
Move our kids back cause this is dynamite. We Support the so called gov in iraq… guess that makes us a main target for rhe sunni’s now
rwcole @
2
Actually this would be a serious change of strategy. A totally FUBAR change of strategy, but a change nonetheless. Instead of trying to hold the country together, we give up and side with the Shiites to totally crush the Sunnis and in return we can leave Iraq with “victory” intact! Hurrah!
One small problem. Can you imagine a scenario better calculated to create total rage in the arab world as well as increase the power of Iran, while causing chaos in the oil-producing countries? It would be the ultimate terrorist recruiting poster and would dangerously destabilize Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the Emirates.
This would be much worse than just leaving and letting the blood-thirsty militias fight it out for supremacy.
At least that way we’re not the ones who sided with the heretics (Shiites) to crush and murder orthodox muslims (Sunnis). I can’t imagine anything that would make Bin Laden happier than that plan. It’s much better for him than our simply getting out of Iraq.
Of course, our idiot leaders never care at all what the muslim world thinks. I guess they think terrorists spring out of the ground for no cause “because they hate our freedoms.”
Just when I think that nothing the administration can come up with will be worse than their last “plan” they sink to a new low!
I can’t imagine how this could end without mass attacks on Americans all over the world.
Louisiana Girl @ 57
I don’t understand. I know four out of the group you listed and these four, at least, are good people and considered progressive.
What about the Iraqi Christians?
They’re screwed, aren’t they?
Under Saddam Hussein, the Arab Christians in Iraq were afforded protection from Islamic religious fanatics by the generally secularist Sunni Baathists.
These secular Sunnis kept the Arab Christians and their children (especially the women) safe from the hardcore sharia brand of Islam, primarily practiced by the ones that the Bush administration is apparently going to cede the Iraqi government to in an attempt to 1) bring down the level of violence wracking Iraq and 2) allow the Bush administration to hold onto control of Iraqi oil.
The hardcore, Iran-backed Shiite groups have already proven they don’t give a damn about minority religious groups.
Arab Christian girls have been raped, kidnapped and even killed by rampaging, sharia-spouting Islamic gangs in Iraq. Subsequently, many Iraqi Arab Christian families have fled from Iraq.
So, of course, the Bush administration is now willing to cut a deal (to keep their finger in the Iraqi oil pot) with the religious groups that want to turn Iraq into an Islamic Republic patterned after Saudi Arabia and Iran (as well as Afghanistan under the Taliban).
The harsh treatment of the Iraqi Christians over the past 3 1/2 years since Hussein’s ouster proved to me that Iraq will never be a true democracy, putting a lie to the Bush administration’s claims that Bush invaded Iraq to spread freedom and democracy there. They lied. It’s always been about the oil.
So, the Bush administration, the Iraq Study Group and the top (Republican hack) generals in Iraq are going to sell-out the Iraqi Christians to try to maintain control over the Iraqi oil…if possible.
What a mess.