"I can't believe the news today. Wish I could close my eyes and make it go away…" (U2)
It's important that everyone see this deeply disturbing and disgusting video, but it's so upsetting that I have to offer major caveats about watching it if you're likely to get nightmares from seeing the absolute worst aspects of human behavior in action. I was only able to finish it one time, and by the halfway point, tears of rage and horror were welling up in my eyes. Do not watch this with the audio on if there are children who may hear it, that is, unless you're ready to have one of Those Talks with them about how some people in the world are just bad, evil people who hurt other people just because they can. And then be prepared to hold your kid as they cry.
It all started when campus cops at UCLA decided to run a student out of the library on suspicion of Using a Computer While Brown:
When Tabatabainejad, 23, refused to provide his ID to the community service officer, the officer told him he would have to show it or leave the library, the report said.
Vhee haff to see your papers…
After repeated requests, the officer left and returned with campus police, who asked Tabatabainejad to leave "multiple times," according to a statement by the UCLA Police Department.
"He continued to refuse," the statement said. "As the officers attempted to escort him out, he went limp and continued to refuse to cooperate with officers or leave the building."
Witnesses disputed that account, saying that when campus police arrived, Tabatabainejad had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack. When an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, the witnesses said, Tabatabainejad told the officer to let go, yelling "Get off me" several times.
(emphasis mine)
So that's when they used the Taser on him. Repeatedly. One of the most disturbing aspects of the video is the officers shouting, "GET UP! GET UP OR WE HIT YOU AGAIN!" when clearly (and according to the shouts of onlookers) Tabatabainejad couldn't get up, so they hit him with the Taser again and again and again.
The video shows Tabatabainejad yelling, "Here's your Patriot Act, here's your … abuse of power," the Daily Bruin reported, adding he used a profanity.
"It was beyond grotesque," said UCLA graduate David Remesnitsky of Los Angeles, who witnessed the incident. "By the end they took him over the stairs, lifted him up and Tasered him on his rear end. It seemed like it was inappropriately placed. The Tasering was so unnecessary and they just kept doing it."
Campus police confirmed that Tabatabainejad was stunned "multiple" times.
By then, Remesnitsky said, a crowd of 50 or 60 had gathered and were shouting at the officers to stop and demanding their names and badge numbers.
Remesnitsky said officers told him to leave or he would be Tasered.
Hear that, punk? Try and interfere with the violation of someone's civil rights and you'll get the same!
Welcome to the United States of Abu Ghraib. When did we become a nation of authoritarian sadists? How long do you suppose it will be before the MalKKKins and Glenn Becks chime in that clearly a young man with an Arab name must have been doing something wrong or he would have surrendered his ID to the campus police immediately?
If Mostafa Tabatabainejad wasn't a terrorist sympathizer before that group of white rent-a-cops tortured and humiliated him with a Taser, he probably is now, folks, just like all the men and women who have been sent to secret CIA prisons, Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo. I'm not saying that international terrorism isn't a problem for our world today, but I am saying that the way BushCo and their water-carriers are handling it is only going to make it worse.
Hey, "spreading freedom", right? And nothing says "freedom" like water-boarding and Tasers.
I'm so proud to be an American right now I could just puke.
How about you?
Related posts:
- Problems with Tasers and Arming Police with Them
- The Cost Of Obama’s Beer Fest Failure Is More Tasered Moms
- Marcy Wheeler — Winner, 2009 Hillman Prize for Blog Journalism
- Keep the “Anti-Escalation in Afghanistan” Blog Fellowship Going
- House Progressives Rebel on Health Care; Tell Blue Dogs to Get Stuffed
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TRex!
I heartily endorse listening to this U2 song REALLY REALLY loudly after you watch the UCLA video.
More like —”Spread em- freedom”
WASHINGTON – President Bush headed to Southeast Asia without Congress having normalized trade relations with Vietnam, a surprising setback that could signal tough times ahead for efforts to pass trade deals in a Democratic Congress.
Congress likely will revisit U.S. trade with Vietnam when lawmakers return from their Thanksgiving break in December. Meanwhile, Vietnamese officials considered the rejection a regrettable setback that went against the interests of both nations.
U.S. business interests, eyeing a fast-growing market, also were taken aback when the measure failed Monday night to gain the two-thirds majority it needed for passage under a procedure that House Republicans pursued to push it through with limited debate. The vote, 228-161, was 32 short of required margin under the expedited procedure
Damn. This was done by campus cops?
I can only imagine what would have happened if the LAPD had gotten involved. I moved out of Cali a long time ago – back in the Darrell Gates days – and I’d hoped things had gotten better there.
Doc got EPU’d:
Doc @ 89
Shameful
!!!…In San Diego- we recently had an off duty cop follow one of the San Diego Chargers in an unmarked car- and plug him in front of his own house in a great example of police work.
These are not necessarily the most restrained strata of society.
Green Day ~ ‘Holiday’ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMlEgCDwqNY
The UCLA’s acting chancellor put out a boilerplate statement:
The Constitution!
Civil Rights!
Dodd!
Oversight!
If this behavior is indicative of the vicious self-importance espoused by rent-a-cops in post-9/11 America, how can we possibly expect our fellow civilians given blanket protections to torture detainees to act in humane manner? What respect have we preserved in positions of authority for basic human decency in age where we not only shoot first and ask questions later, but bomb first and then avoid asking questions for three years?
Come on, everybody. Sing with me:
How long? How long must we sing this song?
NO MORE!! NO MORE!!
Wipe your tears away.
Wipe your tears away…
I’M SO SICK OF IT!!!
That was a horrible video. I watched it at work and shared it with a few people there. We were all horrified. I hope the young man who was tasered and the people who were threatened to be tasered sue the crap out of UCLA.
Like I said below, the students who protested what was going on even in the face of threats that they’d be treated the same way are brave and moral people.
Frankly, I always support the police when they clearly have to use force to protect their own lives and the lives of others. This case was so unbelievably different from those types of situations that I can’t even imagine how anybody will spin it, although I know they’ll try. Even if the situation is exactly as the police spokesperson described it, how can you justify using potentially deadly force on somebody because they “went limp”? These cops overreacted grotesquely, probably because the kid was Middle Eastern (or looked it), and they deserve to be unemployed by Thanksgiving.
OT, but in the same vein of outrage, from a master of understatement.
I’d add that at both universities I attended the campus security forces were made up primarily of retired police officers. This was likely done by people that should have known better.
To wit, the students knew better. They tried to stop the attacks and were subject to threats themselves.
Before I get upset, what do you mean that the students knew better. Are you saying that they shouldn’t have made a stink or that they shouldn’t be surprised at the thuggishness of the police in this incident?
They should be in fucking jail. For a long, long time.
Sorry for the ignorance, what’s “EPU’d”?
lisadawn82 @ 17
He’s saying good on the students for standing up to the cops, I think, Lisa. I may be presuming too much, but my experience with Mr. Browner-Hamlin leads me to believe that he is no fan of authoritarian sadists.
This could only come as a surprise to white people.
TRex @ 21
Okay – that’s what I was hoping.
UCLA enrollment stats (pdf), Fall 2005 (most recent available):
Black, Non-Hispanic: 1290 (3.5%)
American Indian/Alaskan Native: 175 (0.5%)
Asian or Pacific Islander: 12,215 (32.8%)
Hispanic: 4825 (13.0%)
White, Non-Hispanic: 15,463 (36.2%)
Unstated, Unknown, or Other: 2777 (7.5%)
Foreign: 2476 (6.7%)
If the UCLA community service officers have a problem with Studying While Brown, that’s going to be an awfully large portion of the student body.
Doc@15:
I train students in non-violent civil disobedience tactics as part of my job. Refusing to walk yourself to a security car or going limb and requiring security officers to carry you is not an aggressive act. Shouting your objections to the laws which this student objecting to was not a violent act.
Police & security officers may, in the extreme, attempt to influence your behavior with pain compliance tactics. Not saying it’s legal or right, but it is a common course of action. That said, someone can’t comply to your request when they’re jolted with tens of thousands of volts of electricity. Tasers are not a compliance devise, they’re designed to incapacitate.
These officers had no fucking clue what they were doing and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Doc @ 19
EPU is the name of one of our greatest commenters, “Evil Parallel Universe”, who habitually got left behind at the end of threads. (It’s very difficult for entire Universes to be fast on their feet.) He would always arrive and say something brilliant right after everyone else ran upstairs to the next thread, so now when we feel like our comments are late but worth noting, we say, “So and so got EPU’d.” Capice?
lisadawn82 @ 18
No I’m saying they knew better than the security officers, as in they knew the officers actions where flat out wrong.
Sorry for the lack of clarity and thanks to TRex upthread for clarifying for me.
Camera phones and small video cameras add a new way to fight back against this kind of shit. The segment, using the camera phone video, was very effective on Countdown tonight. The ACLU in LA has called the threats against the by-standers, an assault. Hopefully people will sue the shit out of the university.
Doc @ 20
EPU: Evil Parallel Universe, a regular commentor who had a habit of coming late to a thread, posting a wonderful comment, only to find that everyone else had moved along to the new thread.
It has become a term describing anyone who has had that happen to them, in his honor. People will use it either to say “go back and check out what I said on the last thread after you left,” or by way of apology for going off topic and reposting it on the new thread.
I hope C&L will pick up the Countdown piece.
OK, that’s a good one. It seems to happen to me fairly often as well (the getting left behind part, not necessarily the brilliant comment part).
Matt Browner-Hamlin @ 27
Thanks for the explanation. My heart is still pounding from that video and I watched it again 90 minutes ago with my girlfriend. There is nothing that I hate worse in this world are jacka** bullies and that’s what these supposed cops were. Just a bunch of sadist little sh*ts.
A reader has informed me via email that the UCPD is not your average rent a cop operation, but an actual empowered police department, which makes this incident even more inexcusable.
klyde @
22
klyde, please don’t confuse outrage with surprise. I mean, really. I’m in no mood for that sort of snark. Also, I’m way too old for it.
I haven’t been able to see the video yet. I guess everyone’s trying to view it.
Here’s the latest from the Daily Bruin.
Think about the parallels between private security officers employed by a university and contractors hired to provide quasi-police services to the U.S. In Iraq.
I had a friend named Donny in the town where I lived two years ago who was a former Georgia State Trooper. He was a good guy, but about as conservative as they come on most issues.
Whenever something like this happened, he’d bitterly criticize the cops involved for going way overboard in the use of force. He had nothing but contempt for the type of cowboy-wannabe who would escalate a situation to the point that somebody had to get hurt or killed.
TRex, I’ll have to watch the video tomorrow. You may find it worth hearing that that means I’ll be viewing it in a university laboratory where I can get a high-speed connection. If any of the grad students or other faculty are handy, I’ll make sure to spread the word–although this story is likely to be a topic of conversation anyway.
The trend of arming campus police has been going on for a while now, starting well before 9/11. I have never approved of arming policies, and this is an excellent example of the reasons why. Campus police do not receive a level of training comparable to “real” police, and God and all of us know “real” police are far from immune to excesses like this. Additionally, it’s easy for campus police to develop an inferiority complex relative to regular law enforcement that may make them more susceptible to poor decision-making in high-stress situations (although I fail to see why the situation described here counts as “high-stress”). These problems can only be compounded when supposedly “non-lethal” weapons like Tasers are brought into the mix; the manufacturers’ claims for a low risk associated with use are easily interpreted as a carte blanche to use the weapon indiscriminately.
This “incident” is unacceptable and intolerable, and with multiple discharges, the UCLA Police should count themselves lucky that Tabatabainejad is alive to only sue the living shit out of them, the university, and anybody else concerned. Heads need to roll for this, and they cannot roll too far or too soon.
klyde @ 22
(Climate of fear/suspicion) plus (poor training) plus (lack of discipline) plus (racial/ethnic chasm) plus (tense confrontation) => excessive force
In the good ole days, we just got clubbed and tear gassed.
I don’t know who these UCLA campus cops are or what their background is or what disciplinary actions they’ll face. I have a hard time believing any of them will have a job come Monday and I have an even harder time believing this brutalized student won’t end up a multi-millionaire because of these assholes (not saying it’s an excuse, just sayin).
All I know is that Bono’s Mullet wouldn’t have used a taser multiple times on a UCLA student.
klyde @ 22
It doesn’t surprise me. I don’t remember the last time I was really surprised by an incident like this. It does disgust and offend me, as it should anybody with an ounce of good sense, and rest assured that I could not care less about the skin color of anybody involved when I say that.
larkspur @ 33
Thank you, larkspur, for saying exactly what I was thinking, but much more elegantly than I would have stated it.
Oh, and lisadawn, it’s great to see you here. Where you been, lately?
*xyz @ 36
Exactly, plus add in how cheap life has become there and the unlikely propect of being held accountable => total breakdown of law/order/justice
There was a brief moment, immediately after 9/11, when we had a chance to take a different path — but we didn’t, and the evil consequences of that choice are everywhere.
I go into a lot of NYC public schools. I have never seen this level of violence, but I have seen the same attitude many, many times.
I know I sound pollyana-ish here, but the basic disrespect that people in these positions have for students/young people is appalling. And then we hear about how kids today have no respect for their elders.
I couldn’t watch the whole thing. Is there anything constructive we can do to support the victim, or at least bring him some measure of justice by pushing for the prosecution of the police?
I cried myself silly the first day I took my son to preschool. Now I’m going to have nightmares about him going to college.
To TRex @ 42 –
How’s it going? I’ve been working, working, CT for Ned, working, sluffing off on my GRE studying and working. How about you?
His hair is pretty bad in this clip, but his butt looks awfully cute.
Boy, that’s wildly OT, isn’t it?
I share your outrage, but remember that these people have the same rights to due process that that we insist that every accused receive.
Hearing first, then fire their asses. :-)
lisadawn82 @ 45
Working, writing, and now trying to get over the nasty cold I got after being repeatedly doused in the cold rain up in DC. I have been avoiding all over the counter cold treatments since I think they actually worsen and prolong cold symptoms over time, although the more I start to feel like a leaky bottle of rubber cement, the more I start to look in the direction of Tylenol Cold and Flu.
http://www.ucpd.ucla.edu/ucpd/about_mission.html
OT: TRex @ 47
When’s this from? The Carter administration?
Everyone’s butt looks cute when shot from a helicopter in front of 100,000 fans.
What do you expect from $5 an hour pretend cops.
TRex — AlkaSeltzer Plus Cold, half a tablet in a glass of OJ — works for about 3-4 hours. No side effects, for me.
More insanity.. OT but really effed up
Meet our great nation’s new Deputy Assistant Secretary for Population Affairs (unfortunately not a position that requires a confirmation hearing):
http://feministing.com/archives/006076.html (link from Wonkette)
Thanks to Bushy, the man now charged with running all Federal reproductive health programs is, well, a WAY over the edge wingnut.
red_neck_repub @ 51
If you pay attention, you will see several comments in this thread that explain the UCPD’s relationship to the police force more clearly. These are not pretend cops, which makes their actions even more disgraceful.
TRex @ 49
The weather in DC on election night was miserable. I ended up at the diner next to Tryst at 3am, but it was just CNN crews dismantling their gear. I would have came earlier but that probably would have required me to merge a banana cream pie with Ann Althouse.
Blub @ 54
Speaking of Ann Althouse…
TRex – not sure if I’ve mentioned this before, but it was nice to meet you after the Lamont/Schlesinger debate in Hamden,CT. I was the one guarding the Kiss Float. Hope you enjoyed your visit to the nutmeg state.
This is speculation, but…what are the odds that many Iraq veterans, both military and private sector, have already, or will in the future, end up working security details like the one at UCLA? I forsee more incidents like this, even if this is dealt with appropriately.
To be clear, PTSD is not an excuse for this kind of behavior.
EvilDrPuma @ 38
Addendum: After I posted this, I read TRex’s update about the nature of the UCLA Police. I can’t say the new information makes this any worse for me, because I find it utterly unacceptable regardless of those details. But I thought a note that the statements above are inconsistent with the facts was in order.
OMG. That is really disturbing. This is why I fear police though I am a law abiding citizen. I once got shoved by an officer the week of mardi gras. Luckily I was not yet celebrating and my first instinct was to say what the hell…and luckily I realized who I was talking too before I said anything and landed in jail for walking on the street.
I have seen shows where they show the police officers tazering each other in training so that they realize what pain it causes and that they should use it sparingly and only when extremely necessary.
Clearly these officers did not undergo that training. Clearly these officers should be punished for their actions. These actions were egregious!
Hate to go mercenary, but there’s a monstrously lucrative civil rights lawsuit coming.
jeffreyw @ 48
You got it.
I’m used to working in environments where you have to show that you belong where you are, so to me the campus watch asking for the young man’s ID was what he was supposed to do. If the rules say that you have to be a student to be there after a certain time, you have to show ID if you want to stay. After that, though, it sure looks to me like the campus police exceeded their authority at the very least, and if the guy was really trying to leave as the campus police arrived, then they may be guilty of assault. Whoever said they’re very lucky he survived is correct. They could have been up on murder charges.
MsAnnaNOLA @ 61
I prefer to make no assumptions one way or the other on that point.
“Outrageous, egregious, preposterous!”
–Jackie Chiles, “Seinfeld”
And may I add intolerable, inexcusable, and unforgivable.
How have we gotten to a place where people hanging out minding their own business get tazered for not showing an ID to rent-a-cops?
Up is down and down is up.
What next?…
Please save our constitution Nancy Pelosi! Go Nancy! Tell those a-holes how to defend the constitution!
*xyz @ 58
Totally meant for a private email, but *xyz we met once on the Lamont trail before the primary at a waterside event (w/Jane) east of New Haven. There is a NYC-based post-election discussion/conference happening Saturday that I think you might be interested in…
Check out RootsCamp for more info or shoot me an email mbrownerhamlinATgoowyDOTcom.
*xyz, it was very nice to meet you! Of course I remember. My first thought was, “Goodness, our readers are so attractive!”
It made me very proud to not work for a right wing blog, where all the readers look like Jabba the Hut.
I also found it surreal that the cops kept on doing exactly what they were doing in the presence of a couple dozen eyewitnesses and even though numerous bystanders were openly recording the incident on their phones.
What that says to me is that they were convinced they were handling the situation accorting to standard practice, or else are so arrogant that they didn’t think anybody would really do anything. Either way, it’s an indictment of both their training and, apparently, University security policy.
Yup. Police state. That’s what we’re up against. It’s the insidious wearing away of our rights.
If you want to read up some more about all these identity “checks” take a look at the Papers Please website.
The UCLA Chancellor should be forced to explain this:
If it’s required after 11pm why not at 11am? Is the id-card-less person going to be less dangerous before lunch than after the evening news? He’s right about one thing though: it’s all about “compliance”, i.e. making people cowed to “authority”.
As for those thugs who tasered that kid, it’s just one more example of how out of control things have gotten in this country.
And Matt B-H, I got your message just as I was realizing that there was no way for me to get back out to the suburbs until the Metro opened at 5am. I was wet, cold, wiped out, and exhausted. I tried to call you from the airport the next day, but it just rang and rang. No voice mail or anything. Maybe I was calling the wrong number.
I am headed home, kids, but have to stop by the grocery store first. See you in a bit.
Doc @ 68
I rather suspect that the officers in question were running on adrenaline and mob mentality. This need have had nothing to do with either procedure or arrogance…only with groupthink under stress. This statement is not a defense–such conduct should be grounds for immediate firing.
Problem is, nothing I have seen or read, including the statement by the UCLA Security spokesperson, claims that the kid did anything in the way of resistance beyond shouting and going limp. If these guards got too hyped up to notice what was going on around them in that situation, how in God’s name would they handle a person who was really fighting?
I’ve been trained in physical crisis intervention and worked at a job where I had to use it. If you can’t keep your cool in the face of yelling and passive resistance, you don’t have any business running around armed with a license to mess people up.
Which I guess is actually the point here.
Well, we’ve become a police state.
In other news:
FIRST LESBIAN DIVORCE GRANTED IN OKLAHOMA
PINK PANTHERS BLOG!
As to why I hate the show Cops. It is the overt classism at the choice of segments shown.
We are never entertained by a man with a top-hat and spats beating his wife in a mink stole against the side of his Mercedes Benz.
-GSD
OT:
First there was Watergate. Then the GOP was “reborn” under Reagan, leading to Iran-Contra. Then it was “reborn” again through the Clinton-era Congress and Dubya, leading to every kind of venality and corruption under the sun. Now McCain wants to reanimate morally dead tissue again?
Give it up, guys. You’re damaged goods. You’ve been damaged goods since Nixon. You should lose your majority. It’s what you deserve. It’s what you’ve earned.
HeirofPatriots @ 8:59 pm (#69)
That’s because more assaults are going to happen at 11 pm than 11 am. In the middle of the day, the library would be fully staffed and there would be more people around. UCLA is a college in the middle of a large city. It has security issues. The college is within its rights to require that folks who are there can prove they are who they say they are.
I’ve worked in places where you can get thrown in jail or shot for not being able to show the right ID. These were government facilities. The deal is you show ID or leave, hopefully under your own power. Just because taxpayers paid for it doesn’t mean taxpayers get to do whatever they want there.
I understand the desire to not have to prove who you are everywhere you go. Unfortunately, universities are held responsible for the safety of their students. It’s not unreasonable for someone to have to prove that they are a student when they’re using a university asset at times when the university can’t protect its students as well as it would like.
Actually, as some of the folks here have already related, this sort of thing has been going on for a long time. What’s changing, I think, is that people have video cameras now. First there were those little 8mm and small video cameras like the one someone used to tape Rodney King getting the snot kicked out of him. Now they’re on cell phones, too. It’s getting harder for bad cops to do things like this.
GSD @ 74
I don’t think I’ve seen a full five minutes of that godforsaken show. I don’t think I regret it. Scratch that–I know I don’t regret it.
EvilDrPuma @ 75
I can’t wait until the next wingnut starts telling me how bad Bil Clinton was for the Monica affair. All three of their front-running Presidential candidates for 2008 are documented adulterers. “Which adulterer are you going to vote for?” is going to be my stock reply?
TRex @ 70
And here I’d thought it was just because I was only guest posting at FDL ;-). Not sure what was up with my phone, but if it was the next day, I was
cracked out on Amtrakon Amtrak and cracked out. We’ll just have to meet up again next time we take 30 seats from the GOP. Or sooner.GSD @ 74
Not even today, as Jack Abramoff heads off to prison? I’m shocked. Shocked, I tell you . . .
EvilDrPuma @
71
I suspect that not only will those officers be fired, but the chief of UCLA’s PD will likely be advised to look for other employment.
California taxpayers pay for special University police exactly to prevent such altercations between students and tough local police who are used to dealing with gangs etc. They are supposed to keep students out of trouble and to minimize physical altercations. These guys were doing exactly the thing that there force was established to prevent. And that fact impugns their leadership as much or more than it does them.
I am beginning to think that a certain percentage of the human population is “wired with an authoritarian mind-set”. When I recently visited Wash.DC, some of the guards at the Capitol and other facilities were really nasty. You could tell that a sub-set of these people really liked the feeling of power and authority. A female civilian in her 60’s had a two-way radio and was treating the foreign visitors as if she was the “Bitch of Buchenwald”.
The “WE are under attack..be afraid” meme from our neo-fascist administration has given these people the permission to behave like the UCLA cops. As a people we are no better or worse than the German people of the 1930’s.
Where the fuck were the folks who hold positions of responsibility, and why weren’t they standing in between the gestapo and the student (you know, the guy paying their salary)?
After about the second tazering, a riot would have been justified – these bastards were torturing that poor kid.
diogenes @ 83
Yes, they were. I’m worried about the mental health of any person not upset by that thought.
Think what it will be like when a democrat is elected president.
It’s now times 10. Try it. You’ll like it.
Really — go ahead and let yourself imagine that it is 2008 and it has just happened.
No more goopers anywhere!
Peterr @
24
This is a grotesque oversimplification of th problem of admissions to the UC system. As a current UCLA student, I’ve seen quite a bit of what’s going on here.
The admissions process is totally blind. They only see numbers from tests and a typed version of the application (so that handwriting can’t influence the decision). The problem is that the applications are so numbers based, and biases in standardized testing definitely start to show up in this kind of application process. Affirmative action at this point is like trying to do a final correction on an entirely broken process.
As for the UCLA rentacops, UCLA is the confluence of the worst of state government and large school institutions. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior in any case. I went to a smaller school (5k students) for undergrad, and we actually knew the cops on campus. UCLA is such a massive institution, no one knows anyone outside of their corner of campus unless they very actively go out of their way to find other people.
I guess what I’m getting at is, I’m not surprised. LAPD is currently under investigation for a similar case, where officers were videotaped punching someone in the head repeatedly after restraining him on the ground, then the pepper spray comes out. I don’t know why, but there seems to be a rash of this kind of crap going around here. Maybe it’s always gone on, and now we’re seeing it because of citizen video capabilities. Time to arm myself with a video camera.
Cujo359 says:
Yeah. Of course this does not excuse the assault on the student!!, but carding everyone is often much better as a policy than discretionary carding, which often leads to ordinary, non-paralyzing, but still bad harassment of those Learners Who Are Also Being Brown.
McCain looks to refurbish the Titanic.
Stay tuned.
-GSD
Nothing has changed since Kent State has it.
Glen Beckshit goes way over the line with a newly elected person of middle eastern lineage and now how disturbing to be watching the hearings from earlier today on c-span about civil rights and the voting shit only to come back online to watch this video. Absolutely disgusting, I’m past furious. Sick bastards all.
Just as powerful today as it was 20 years ago and why they were called the most important rock band. However, I was reminded of something I’ve thought about with the war. How the Irish Troubles so much mimiced the Middle East Troubles today.
As for the incident with the taser, what do you expect from a country that condones and promotes torture. Understanding?
Fire these thugs and hold them civilly and criminally accountable. After due process, of course. Then maybe it’s time for some sensitivity trailning for the rest of the officers on the force.
This is an outrage. Where do they find these people?
Lyrebird @ 87
I’ve assumed, perhaps wrongly, that what happened there was that the campus watch guy (the one who called the police) didn’t recognize the victim and asked to see his student ID. Maybe there was something else going on there, but that’s what I’m assuming, because it’s clearly the policy that only students are allowed in the library after 11 pm. The victim may have assumed this was because he wasn’t white, and it’s always possible that it actually was because he wasn’t white. I can’t say that. All I can say is that it sounds like they were doing their jobs to require that he show ID.
I’m a middle aged white guy who normally isn’t all that scary looking, and I’d assume under those circumstances that if no one recognized me then I’d be asked to produce a student ID. Like I said, I’m conditioned to that sort of thing. If you’re not, though, it can feel like harassment.
Cujo359,
I understand your point, but I don’t think we’ll see eye to eye. I’ve always lived in large cities (i.e. over a million people) and know violence and crime happens at all times of day and night (even at 11am in a library). Common sense, not becoming a police state, is the way to deal with it.
If security requiring that you proove your identity is required (hardly the case in a library) then it should be mandated to wear an ID badge – not arbitrarily demanded.
If they can’t provide the necessary security at certain times then they should close the library – not implement intimidation tactics (e.g. “you there, show me your ID”) that do nothing for real secuity.
Before you say closing the library is unreasonable, my University has proxy servers so we can get the online resources from dorm or off campus. Another reasonable common sense approach would be to limit entry and exit to specific points that could be monitored or that require a magenetic ID to be swiped, or to increase the frequency of patrols, etc.
The reason these thugs felt they could get away with it is because people go along with the drip drip drip of imposing authoritarianism in the name of “security”.
And I never said this was something new. I just said it was another example of how out of control this country has gotten.
GSD @ 88
Hey, let it dry off, new coat of paint, and you’re off to the sea lanes.
Doc @
20
Doc, there’s a poster with the handle “Evil Parallel Universe”. You might have noticed that when there’s a new thread started with a new post, everyone moves on. Evil Parallel Universe would post long replies or comments, only to find that nobody was listening, everybody had left, and he was talking to himself. The situation was named after him.
“I’d assume under those circumstances that if no one recognized me then I’d be asked to produce a student ID. Like I said, I’m conditioned to that sort of thing. If you’re not, though, it can feel like harassment.”
So can getting Tasered.
When my boyfriend was doing the college basketball TeeVee circuit, the most hassles he would get would be with the college cops, they would refuse to let them in with equipment, threaten and actually tow their cars, not allow them access to the arenas and other areas that they needed. They called them security nazi.
Had to pause for an album before tackling this post. The tears wont come but the outrage sputters and fumes because this is all to familiar.
I watched the footage on Olbermann this evening. Frankly I was surprised the students took so long to start howling. It’s a fucking library! He would have left without a fucking complimentary shock treatment! I will wager a months income right now he had ID on him.
I hope this young man is going to be ok and has a whole lot of fine attorneys in his living room this evening. The police officers had this guy in a position where they could have cuffed him (though it sort of looked like he was already?). He was not a danger to anyone! Police must be fired immediately and serve jail time when they of all people abuse their power in such a brutal and shameful manner. An orange jumpsuit should be the last uniform they are ever allowed to wear, no exceptions, no excuses.
This type of behavior is commonplace throughout our entire country and attempts at accountability, once again, are most always going to fall on a judges deaf ear if it gets that far.
I think official abuse is considered the “norm” in so much of our society and one in a long line of examples why so many easily shrug off the legalization of torture and other abusive behavior by authorities. I fear youngsters will not fight against this behavior in the future because of its apparent normalcy in these times. I can’t imagine how normal it must feel for youngsters to be constantly searched in airports and schools nowadays. It will never feel normal to me.
It’s a short flight from the Stanford project scenario to Kent State and our leadership has empowered itself to be far more abusive than I would have dared to imagine a couple of years ago.
I remember reading an article linked here in the lake comments a couple of months ago where an Air Force (general?) denied handing out new (taser like) weapons for use abroad by our troops. He thought we (our law enforcement) should try them on our own citizens first!
It’s a few miles to my mailbox and I am beginning to consider even more remote options and a large dog.
Tin soldiers and Bush’s tazers.
-GSD
GSD @ 88
I wanna see him raise it first…. :)
THERE IS NO EXCUSE.
This was TORTURE, police brutality, and attempted murder, not harrassment.
They tried or did taser him in the nuts while they were at it. What the fuck did they do to him once they had him in custody away from the cell cameras?
montag @ 100
But if McCain raises the Titanic, who’s going to raise McCain?
neurophius @ 96
I’m not justifying the tasering, only his being asked to produce student ID, which seems reasonable to me under the circumstances. Don’t students have to produce student ID any more to get student discounts, access to the student union, etc? Note that he wasn’t asked to identify himself, just show that he was a student at the university.
COPS is broadcast by the Fox Network
Do I need to say more?
Not too much has changed in in SoCal over the years. Looks like the uni cops want to taste what the LAPD has been up to. Sick. Just sick.
These individual cops don’t realize how badly they tarnish the image of police not just in their precint and communities but across the nation as well. Asshats. Toss ‘em in jail and lets see what happens.
Not arguing with you, Cujo. Just making an observation.
Eureka Springs, I’m considering getting a gun. For the first time, our Ohio concealed carry law looks pretty good to me.
katymine @ 104
Nope. Fox did it, Real Humans despise it, that settles it.
They Tasered him after he was in the cuffs according to witnesses, and that’s torture.
These fuckers need to be locked up for the rest of their lives.
Yeah, I watched this and it was pretty bad…
But…
What do you think a resident of Bahgdad would say to you after he viewed this?
Further, reliable reports have thousands of Americans being ‘disappeared’ from this country.
If you think this is bad you really must lead very sheltered lives.
Much, much worse is being done in our name.
Why not let yer new Democratic,or old for that matter, Congress Puke know what you think of the racist, jingoist government we’ve got.
And why not do that…
Every day until they hammer the ReichWing into the dirt.
We’ve got the majority.
Let’s make them act.
HeirofPatriots @ 9:38 pm (#93)
So, rather than have students required to prove that they’re students after 11 pm, you would close the library? Yes, that’s unreasonable. First off, if the policy was that well known then students should have their ID with them. It’s called preparation, something not unheard of in university cirricula. Second, many students go to a library because it’s a quiet place.
So yes, this seems unreasonable to expect that, rather than have students show that they really are students, something they have to do to obtain many services, they should close down the library so someone doesn’t take offense at being asked for ID and then get tasered by out-of-control policemen.
And yes, crime occurs at all hours of the day. But violent crime occurs after dark, and particularly when there aren’t many potential witnesses around. It’s a lot like traffic, or do you think getting on the freeway at 5 pm is just like getting on it at 5 am?
I’d like to think that Tabatainejad isn’t a terrorist. I don’t think that he is one. But I want to say to him: prove that you aren’t a terrorist! That’s what I and America are thinking!
OT:
A moment of sober reflection:
HAAAAAAA-HA! You can run, but you can’t hide! Deal with it, Pink Boy!
neurophius @ 106
Ah, sorry. Yes, tasering would probably feel like harassment under any circumstances where one’s own body provides the electrical path.
It used to be that a standard rock-hard rule for all police was that no more force be used than is required to control the situation. A student who’s been told to leave and is on the way out the door should require no action at all, whether the campus police were called or not.
The fact that the police grabbed the student by the arm in the attempt to detain him, even as he was complying with a request to leave, was the first escalation; the provocation came from the police.
At the time of Gates’ leadership of the LAPD, it was common in his department that training films encouraged the police to adopt an us v. them attitude, and one particularly notorious training film (produced independently, but used by the LAPD) told police it was necessary for their survival to treat the public as “the enemy.”
I suspect that police eventually become, if not indoctrinated to that view, then inured to it. Encouraging excessive force as a survival technique encourages precisely this sort of over-reaction.
Glenn Beck @ 112
You are not funny.
I’m ashamed. I am embarrassed. During my 24 years with my police dept, I attended several schools (PD term for training that last a full work day or longer).
One was a week long Homicide Investigation school with other detectives from through out the State of California. Naturally, LAPD was represented by several detectives. During that week, the Rodney King video taped incident first hit the media.
What I remember most about that class was how embarrassed those LAPD detectives were – doubly embarrassed by being cops from that same department. They were embarrassed to be cops and they were embarrassed to be LAPD cops while sitting in an conference room filled with cops.
I am embarrassed. I am ashamed. I am pissed in a “how dare those officers bring shame to my profession” even though I am now retired.
TRex, thank you for front paging this.
Suzanne, as a representative of law enforcement, can you tell us what the most direct and effective means of citizen action is to address this incident? Writing about it has helped me some, but I still feel the need to do something more.
EvilDrPuma @ 116
No, but “Glenn” makes an excellant point.
I think this IS an issue that needs to be addressed. The Militarization of our police departments and our society. It was on a slow creep until BushCo and the advent of the COPS and violent video games. Escalization of violence in movies and TeeVee. Now this is from a fan of Law & Order and CSI shows.
Why do our police departments NEED to look like soldiers? Why do they need tanks like our Sheriff Joe custom painted tank where he and his guys burned a half million dollar home to the ground on bad intel, shot the owners dog and crashed into nearby cars…. gee kind of sounds like another idiot doen’t it?
Cujo359,
I clearly did not say I would prefer them to close the library. I said if they can’t provide the necessary security they should close the library not implement intimidation tactics.
I also gave examples of what I do consider reasonable examples of security. This included wearing of identification badges if one’s proof of identity is necessary. Just verifying someone is a student doesn’t make a place secure.
I do not consider a “policy” randomly demanding ID from someone (e.g. proving their identity as a student) reasonable whether it is known or not.
No. He doesn’t.
And learn to fucking spell before you come around here.
Tasering a kid once, much less at least four fucking times or more is unacceptable. Period.
Not only do they need a huge fucking student march in protest they need to get as many parents screaming as possible over this. Bring on a fleet of attorneys.
Just watched the piece on Olbermann. I’m sorry, the gal from the school paper smiled through the interview and did a piss poor job. A damn hint of outrage on her part would of went a whole lot farther in how serious this is. I’m sure she was nervous but I don’t see one fucking thing to smile about or sit there like a stammering timid mouse. Gah!
montag @ 115
It’s the sort of behavior you particularly expect from campus police. They are, I suspect, routinely subjected to minor harassment as part of their jobs. Usually, the students just sleep it off and no one’s the worse for wear. Using excessive force is probably more likely to get cops in trouble there than just about anywhere. Students are bright young people, and their parents generally take a dim view of them getting beaten up for no good reason.
One would think, in short, that patience and forebearance are key parts of the job.
They can’t all be instant media ninjas like Christy and Jane.
montag @ 115
I think it starts here, yes, but then it takes on the quality of a self-fulfilling prophecy. The problem becomes more pronounced as the public adapts to being treated as the enemy by becoming suspicious and resentful of the police, thereby “justifying” the us-versus-them mentality. It’s not a long trip from there to a police siege mentality in which the police are constantly “beset” by the public. And then the whole thing really gets out of hand.
alton @ 119
“Glenn’s” only excellent point is the one on top of his head.
Americans, you complain about your government, but you are the ones who elected them there – your family, your friends, your neighbours. If you want change, you have to change. I am just so grateful NOT to be american. Geesh, you allow this behaviour obscene library assault to continue…. good luck there.
Governor Terminator ought to fly to LA at first light tomorrow, head straight to the campus and have a little chat with the Chancellor. If that doesn’t get Arnold some satisfaction he should order his State Police security detail to arrest the perps & demand prosecution of their hate crimes. How I dream.
disgusted Canadian @ 128
If you have nothing useful to offer, shut the fuck up.
I just got home and saw this. My first teaching job was at a community college. I was 25 years old, and I looked even younger. I was asked for my ID several times while using the Mac classrooms next to the computer lab because the lab staff didn’t think I looked like an instructor. I really doubt that I would have been tasered if I had forgotten my ID.
This is completely disgusting.
TRex @ 122
Wow, TRex. No, I’m not always an excellent speller or typist…but I took the original comment as a rather pointed observation as to how such attitudes are normalized and become acceptable mainstream discussion.
I welcome your interpretation, and would appreciate the same courtesy.
disgusted Canadian @ 128
If you’re so fucking smart, come down here and fix it for us, you smug dipshit. We’re doing everything we can here.
So blow me.
TRex @ 118
Not a representative of law enforcement any more – but I would say that this being in the media is doing a whole lot. Saw this tonight on KO so I know it will hit TradMed tomorrow.
I would expect a statement tomorrow from the University and the University Police with the start of their investigation into the events depicted in the video.
Sorry, my dial-up booted me off line (I must have pissed off my NSA handler again) and I just now got back on.
disgusted Canadian @ 128
Umm, I think the people here are probably aware of that, and are the ones most likely to understand the situation and want to change it.
BTW, who was it that unnecessarily put Maher Arar on a terrorist watch list so the US intercepted him in NYC while changing planes?
Ah, but you knew that already.
Alright, that’s it for me tonight. People are pissing me off, so before I end up saying something I regret, I’m off to fix myself something to eat and head for bed.
Good night and good luck, patriots!
God bless this country and make her whole again. We need it.
TRex, thank you.
I’m also ashamed and embarrassed – and very sad.
Electric shock weapons to punish library scofflaws?
What has happened to law enforcement?
After years at teh med center there, I’ve been really fond of UCLA. I’m still in awe of my colleagues’ clinical work – but revolted by the violence against Tabatainejad.
I have seen UCLA police respond to emergencies with agitated mentally ill people using far less force.
That doesn’t excuse the actions you spotlight, TRex.
The presence of a known set of alternative skills makes the use of electric shock weapons all the more inexcusable.
(and preview is our friend)
TRex @ 133
And on that note, I bid you all good night. Oh, and Disgusting Canuck: have fun with Harper.
montag @ 135
Yeah. Sorry. My bad.
Nite TRex….. rest well… see ya tomorrow
g’nite TRex, sleep well.
The French. Old Europe. Saddam. Iran. North korea. Homeless people. Brown students.
Eventually someone is going to have to respect our authoritay.
Nite TRex, thank you for highlighting our latest National Disgrace #9947462583712.
The ‘lake is roiled by what we saw tonight, done by those sworn to protect us, in our name, on our soil. Rest well, firedoggies, see you tomorrow.
g’nite.
EvilDrPuma @ 138
If this was covered, apologies…
The University of California is almost a separate entity in California jurisdictions (as they told us peons).
The UC police are ultimately accountable to the UC Regents (who just met last weekish).
The Regents regularly rely upon the UC police to cary away those protesting at the Regents’ meetings.
The protesters tend to be students…..
I’m just saying, now….
TRex – rest well great hearted giant.
Soooooooo, is there a handy email addy to express our complete horror and disgust over this latest horror and disgust?
We’ve got a problem here in Portland with calf roping police tasering everything that moves. Recall the peaceful protest that got stormed by mounted police here a couple months ago. I also recall hearing something to the effect of Portland having a fraction of the number of tasers that the Phoenix police force has but Portland police use them something like 6 times more in absolute incidents.
Shez @ 148
ahnold…
http://www.govmail.ca.gov
HeirofPatriots @ 121
For whatever reasons, the victim declined to show student ID. If he didn’t want to show it, he should have left (which he may have actually been doing when the police arrived). You think having some student helper cop ask for ID is intimidation? I’ve had machine guns pointed at my car when I was showing ID. Get a grip.
Then you don’t know squat about security. You don’t just let unknown people wander around a place you’re trying to make secure. People who had student ID could stay. People who didn’t were trespassers, or they should have brought their ID.
If the victim wasn’t someone anyone recognized, then they should have asked for his ID. That’s not random.
Shez @
148
I found this information at Americablog:
Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams
Telephone: 310-825-2151
Fax: 310-206-6030
Email: chancellor@conet.ucla.edu
http://americablog.blogspot.co…..being.html
Goodnight, TRex, and thanks for the article.
When I was in college, you could not get in to the library without showing school id. Is this not common practice?
And regarding Glenn Beck’s craptastic interview. Did you notice when he was couching his racist question he said “Sir, you are a Democrat.” As if being registered as Dems is part of the profiling for being a terrorist.
slothropia.com Blog Archive Why I Am In a Pissy Mood @ 10:35 pm (#154)
Perhaps that’s what “our” Glenn Beck was satirizing? If not, then he’s a remarkably effective self-parody.
I think Socal has had some awfully strange policing customs. This was a long time ago, but when I was growing up, the SDPD was just as brutal. Even white kids were regularly beaten up, and, yes, tasered, for no reason other than being at the beach after a certain hour. After a party was broken up where there was underage drinking, crooked cops made us buy kegs for THEM for months, in order to avoid prosecution. We had an assumption that if you were an unaccompanied male teen who’s dad wasn’t obviously the mayor (or the guy who owned the mayor) and you ran afoul of the cops, you WOULD be subject to some form of extrajudicial abuse or other. And this was in the middle class ‘burbs. I did a ride-along as part of a school project once, and witnessed a cop shoot a distraught man in his apt door dead from 35 feet away when the fellow brandished a butter knife. Five big cops arrived at the seen and made sure that I understood what I was supposed to say in my statement. And then sat outside of my house all night, to make sure my “story” stuck. I think it’s gotten better a lot better in SD beginning in the early ’90s when they switched to a form of community policing (thanks, I think, to the current mayor), but I don’t think LA’s followed.
UptownNYChick @ 10:40 pm (#155)
I seem to remember having to produce ID before I could check out a book.
Well, at least in conjunction with being a Muslim, yes. I wonder if he was a Republican whether they would find him suspicious. I guess we’ll have to wait a couple of decades for one to be elected to find out.
Blub @ 157
The LA cop culture as long as I’ve lived here has been pretty much “because I said so” and then the clock starts ticking for anybody. If you’re young, brown, homeless, high, drunk – the clock ticks a lot faster.
At UCSD and SDSU you can walk in and use the libraries without an ID check.
Cujo359 @ 158
If Olberman had said to Bob Corker, “Sir, you are a Republican and you did run that controversial ad, I feel like saying saying Sir prove to me you are not a racist.”
he’d have been fired before the show ended.
Blub @ 160
that’s amazing. you couldn’t go anywhere in my school without showing an id.
nowadays you can’t enter any freaking building in NYC without id.
Thanks newtonusr and alton, for the contact info. I hope it gets added to the end of TRex’s post if any mods are around.
I see a diary on this over at Kos has almost 700 replies and an earlier one has over 400. I hope a huge howling continues.
I fired off an email to the chancellor.
This is one of the schools my son is looking at.
I asked if they had any books about Gandhi in the library.
One way to get UCLA’s attention, pressure their alums. I just sent an email to a friend who is alum. They have tons of famous alums too.
The young man who was tased is of Iranian (i.e. Persian) background.
Los Angeles has enormous Iranian community, many arrived after the Shah fell. There are many relatives of the Shah living in that area too. Most of the Iranians I have come across are highly educated, own businesses or are professionals – lawyers, doctors, etc and they are a very wealthy community.
I have a Dentist in LA who is an Iranian and very delightful.
It would really surprise me if the Iranian community don’t come forward and help this young man with anything he needs.
Blub @ 10:45 pm (#157)
I grew up and went to college in what was rural Pennsylvania back then. We seldom saw cops, let alone had any dealings with them. I was appalled to learn, though, how out-of-control Philadelphia cops were back then (this was in the ’70s). Most of their victims were blacks and other minorities, but not always. The Inquirer did a series on them that took several weeks to run.
I also remember all those newsreels of the riots down South in the ’60s, and the Chicago riots in 1968. I heard about the behavior of the Detroit police from a veteran of the Army unit that was sent there after the riot. Let’s just say that I’m wasn’t surprised there was a riot after that tale. “Police brutality” wasn’t a catchphrase for nothing back then.
So, it’s probably not strictly a SoCal problem.
UptownNYChick @ 165
Great suggestion. UCLA’s administration may not pay any attention to us, but they will listen to donors and potential donors, i.e. alums.
Shez @ 148
The UC Police are accountable to the UC Regents – all of them.
The Regents’ vice-chair is Richard Blum – Sen. DiFi’s multi-millionaire hubby.
The UCLA Chancellor has less direct control over the UC police than do the UC Regents and the UC Office of the President in Oakland.
The Office of the President directly supervises the UC police, system-wide.
The UC President will not give a flying fuck what we think – he is paid to ignore us.
The UC Regents just took control of the UC Pres’ budget ’cause he had a little ‘leaky-poo problem with the dollars – they keep going to the senior UC execs in unapproved bonuses the California Legislature is royally pissed off about.
Some of the same pissed off Legislators serve as UC Regents*…
Any political control over the UC police rests with the Regents and the California Constitutional officers who appointed them.
UC Regents come in multiple flavors: appointed, ex-officio, student, and faculty.
Like most huge academic enterprises, the students and faculty are powerless.
The appointed UC Regents are powerful friends of powerful ELECTED pols. The ex-officio Regents are senior ELECTED officials in state government.
Some of the Regents are appointed by Dems.
[*other Regents, lamentably, were appointed by Schwarz
nazigropenator before he turned centrist long enough to win re-election]goodnight folks….
OfT, but on my mind.
Fact: Hunger has increased in the US over the last five years.
Question: What do you do if you are George Bush facing a tough election and the the USDA is about to release annual October report on hunger?
Why, you have the USDA redefine “hunger” as those people with “very low food security”. Presto, no more hungry people.
And, of course, have USDA delay the report until today.
As Barbara would say, “there now, that worked out quite well for those people at the soup kitchen…”
Doc @
72
Doc—did you work in a psych unit?
Happy Birthday, Howard Dean!
That was an incredibly disturbing video. This is what the Freedom Act, suspension of habeus corpus, and years of Republican authoritarianism has brought us to. We took a step back from the abyss on November 7th, but we are still very close to the edge, aren’t we?
UptownNYChick @ 165
I think a couple went to the film school there …
Yeah. Very nice of the misadmin isn’t it? Actually, some of the blogs misreported the matter in one respect. They were right about the stalling of the report’s release (it usually comes out in Oct), but not on the definitional change.. the truth isn’t much more comforting though. My understanding is that the WH requested that USDA make the change in 2004 for the 2005 report, on the grounds that “hunger” is a psychological “sensation” as opposed to a condition. They argued that USDA had no way of knowing that “very low food security” would lead to the “sensation” of hunger without having some way to measure that sensation physiologically (presumably, in the rethug mindset, one can starve to death in complete comfort because one should have sufficient willpower not to feel the sensation of hunger)… just another illustration of why the good Christians in this government have zilch chance of getting into heaven.
kemo @ 170
Cujo359 @ 174
I know a few of their sports alums and emailed them.
Holy crap jinny, he’s Iranian??? Yea that will help relations alot, more American torturers stories and YouTubes circling the globe as we type.
kirk murphy @ 169
The Regents’ vice-chair is Richard Blum – Sen. DiFi’s multi-millionaire hubby.
Thanks for all the extra info kirk! Sounds like DiFi and her Regent hubby are due for some new correspondence with us too eh?
Blub, it really is quite disturbing, and Bush’s “annoyance” of hunger statistics goes back to his days as governor.
Hey, why stop with hunger, we can redefine lots of things:
Blub @ 160:
Different situations. As you undoubtedly know, UCSD is smack in the middle of one of the most affluent suburbs in America, and not well served by mass transit. The assumption that “if you’re here, you probably belong here” is arguably more supportable at Geisel (that’s right, folks, the main library at UCSD is named for Dr. Seuss) than at any other library in the UC system.
And the only reason anyone goes to the library at SDSU is to pass out and sleep it off in a warm place.
neurophius @
91
They’re everywhere. My own 25 years with the Customs Service convinced me that when an American fascist leader calls for the creation of our own home-grown SS units, we will not need a draft.
kemo @
170
… and thereby the Bush administration has eliminated “hunger.”
These wanna be popo are finished. hopefully arrested and convicted of the crimes we all saw. you know what rent a cops, video is a bitch. As for Glenn Beck? The javelin is shoved so far up his ass it is no use trying to remove it. He is pushing Sean Hannity’s reign as biggest douche bag in the world. Billy O can’t even touch that fuck.
There’s another diary up at Kos on it, and about fascism that’s a good read:
The Slow Creep of Fascism
The author cites some of the YouTube page replies from the video, here’s a typical radical winger hatemonger comment:
“Bullet…shot…kill his parents”. I bet this proud knuckledragging mouth breather adores Malkkkin, Coulter, Pammie, and the rest of his role models that talk just like this. Sick sick fuckers.
My general sense is that SoCal cops have some of the problems they do because of the same reasons cops are brutal in developing countries:– inadequate training, poor pay, alienation from the communities they patrol and, most importantly, extremely high citizen to cop and crime to cop ratios. I saw a table once showing that there are MANY more cops per population in typical northeastern cities than in SoCal. Cops have thus developed a culture that combines a siege and bnuker mentality with alienation and brutality.
Of course, having a national culture that condones torture, extrajudicial disappearance and official kidnapping probably doesn’t help… but, speaking for la and sd, our cops have been nasty and corrupt for a lot longer than Bushco has had the reigns of power.
TRex @ 11:28 pm (#179)
As to the question you asked in the update, the honest answer is that I doubt I would have tried to help him by intervening, and I certainly wouldn’t have tried to get physical. This is the problem with out of control cops – they still have the law on their side. I know it’s probably technically legal to come to someone’s aid in such circumstances, but the plain fact is that, unless you’re a lawyer or someone who’s very prominent in the community, the most likely thing is that you’ll end up in jail charged with assaulting a police officer. Cops don’t take kindly to their own being assaulted, no matter what the reason.
That’s why it’s so important that the police behave properly, because who do you call when they’re breaking the law?
I like that library! And I can get there my trolley.
burnspbesq @ 179
Found this in the comments at Kos:
Friday, there will be a rally to protest the police brutality at UCLA, hosted by the UCLA Iranian Student Union:
Friday, November 17, 2006
12:00pm – 1:00pm
Kerckhoff Steps on BruinWalk
308 Westwood Plaza
Los Angeles, CA
Late Nite Tune:
Old Fashioned
(Cover)
Six words:
influential alumni.
fundraising department.
big stink.
Shez @ 11:54 pm (#187)
Good for them. Hopefully, it won’t just be an Iranian or Middle Eastern thing, because it’s not just about being brown.
Those cops could pick someone else to victimize next time. They’ll just be more careful about where they do it if they get the idea someone will object. I haven’t watched the video, because I just don’t want to get that angry. It’s plain this guy was tasered multiple times, which is almost never necessary under any circumstances. If he was handcuffed, then it’s probably assault. As far as I’m concerned, those guys are criminals, and as I mentioned before, that they’re cops just makes them really dangerous criminals.
In response to the update, whether it is effective and/or wise to protest (not physically interfere in) an injustice:
http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/…..senstr.htm
Yes.
kirk murphy @
169
Hmmmm. Per http://police.berkeley.edu/ann…..ights.html
So, apparently UCLA’s Chief of Police reports to the Office of the President via UCLA’s Vice Chancellor of Business and Adminisgtrative Services via UCLA’s Interim Chancellor, which is not so all that direct.
BTW
Happy Birthday Howard Dean.
FWIW, the UCLA PD has an incident report posted at http://www.ucpd.ucla.edu/
1,336 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Good Mornin’Citizen Trex and Firepup Patriots:
After watchin some a the Judiciary Committee hearings today…I think we can look forward to some serious stompin’ on fascist lawlessness and police abuses from election fraud and citizen intimidation to torture and the removal of habeus. The culture of police lawlessness and racially motivated police brutality is part of the fascist gene-strain in our history…that is, it’s nuthin’ new. What IS new, however, is that exposing it and advancing a national strategy of libertarian human rights and constitutional restoration is politically and electorally a winner and the corporatists can’t do a thing about it.
We’re gunna see a year of Democrats engaging the fascists on the last 6 years of un-democratic and anti-democratic actions and there isn’t a god damned political trick the minority can conjure that can stop it.
While this is happening, the old corporatist media will be slowly fading into 24 hour shopping venues.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…THIS WON’T BE EASY BUT IT’S GUNNA BE FUN!!!
Cujo359 @
189
Has anyone got UNITE HERE involved? I know they’ve been able to pull damn good #s to protests ON THEIR BEHALF, I think it’s about time they proved to us that they truely are concerned about [i]all[/i] workers and not just about UNITE HERE(I like them, but they’re CTW and thats sorta a running theme in the upper echelons of that organization)
Anyway, like afew people have said, although what they did was inexcusable, it probably spawns from orders given, predijecides propagates towards them, and a poor set of rules made by those with power above the security guards- like I said tho, inexcusable, but we must investigate to find the root cause- often those delivering the message get the guillotine, we cant let that happen- let them all burn…
yes, it was wrong for the 50-60 OBSERVERS to simply observe, but in that situation they were probably afraid, i can sympathize with that, they’re college students- Im sure alot of us HERE would be willing to get tased to stop the abuse of another man, but we’re a rare breed
Where are all the wingnut POW/MIA idiots screaming about Bush being a traitor for dealing with the enemy in Vietnam?
Good morning, everyone. Only one guy is lurking behind the firewall at the NYT this morning:
http://select.nytimes.com/2006…..amp;emc=th
Thomas Friedman, “The Green Leap Forward.”
Cujo359 @ 92
Middle aged middle class white guys and gals will always find an excuse for police brutallity secure in the knowledge that it wont happen to them.
Wanker
Mornin’.
klyde @
22
THANK you. Seriously, where have these white folks been?
Mornin’ all!
Happy Birthday to two great guys – Howard Dean, 57, and my son who is 19 today – November 17, 1987 – one of the happiest days of my life!!
Welcome to the United States of Abu Ghraib.
Or the “United States of 24″ — Fox “entertainment” has been glorifying these practices on TV for quite some time.
TRex @ 26
“but worth noting,” Oh… that means my substance-free comments have never been EPU’d.
Back to the drawing board…
Morning Firepups,
I saw the video on KO last night and could not believe my eyes. I hope this kid has filed criminal assault charges and his parents have a good tort lawyer. Even if he was refusing to leave the library, no account I have heard or read would give rise to a need for the campaus police to use the tasers. That and they kept zapping him over and over.
I saw a clip where another student asks for the campus cop’s badge number and the cop threatens to zap the other kid–for asking a freakin’ question!
That kid, who has his best evidence on tape also has a tort case for menancing.
“I was only able to finish it one time, and by the halfway point, tears of rage and horror were welling up in my eyes.”
God, TRex, you’re such a drama queen. Some kid got tazed because he’s resisting and disorderly. Newsflash: trespassing and screaming at the police will get you a shock in the ass. And yelling, “I’m not resisting” doesn’t mean he’s not resisting. Try watching an episode of COPS.
UCLA rules require a student ID to use the computer lab. This guy started yelling profanities when asked to leave, and the police were called. Honestly, why waste your credibility overhyping a pretty run-of-the-mill disorderly conduct arrest?
OT
Pow wow at the botom of the last Scooter Libby thread said that s/he would post an analysis of some Nov. 16th filings on a later thread. I haven’t reviewed the intermediate threads yet.
Does anyone know if there was a later post? Perhaps with links?
Lazy Rivera @ 204
Since when does screaming at police–and capus police are not “police” under the law, they are private security and do NOT have qualified immunty–get you tazed? I missed that day in criminal law. Is screaming at police now a voilation, a misdemeanor or a flenoy?
Hmmm? And even if some misguided state legislature tried to pass a criminal law thta said screaming at police is acrime, t=said staute would fail constittuionaly because of the First Ammendment.
I appoligize for feeding the troll. I obviuosly should not dip into the Lake before consuming sufficient quanitties of caffein
LR at 204,
Good thing for you TRex is still asleep.
Mornin’ lhp. I do recall something by powwow. Will go over and try to pick up the linky for you.
O/t -
Via C-Span – Ted (the toobz) Stevens (sp?) running again in ‘08. Hope Alaska Dems spend the next two years plotting to drum him out for good. I’ll drink to that……..and donate too. Or…….maybe nature will take its course in the interval ;-)
OT, but typical…
Bipartisanship? Bipartisanship?? I got ya bipartisanship hangin’ right here:
http://www.earthjustice.org/ne…..dates.html
Why am I not surprised?
new members of the NDC, the New Democrat Caucus, a centrist, nonprogressive, antiprogressive organization:
- Gabby Giffords (AZ-8)
- Michael Arcuri (NY-24)
- Ed Perlmutter (CO-07)
- Joe Courtney (CT-02)
- Ron Klein (FL-22)
- Tim Mahoney (FL-16)
- Joe Sestak (PA-07)
- Heath Shuler (NC-11)
- Bruce Braley (IA-01)
- Chris Carney (PA-10)
- Nick Lampson (TX-22)
- Jason Altmire (PA-04)
- Kirstin Gillibrand (NY-20)
- Baron Hill (IN-09)
- Chris Murphy (CT-5)
- Patrick Murphy (PA-8)
Louisiana Girl, PLEASE tell me that they’re not really calling it the New “Democrat” Caucus. Say it isn’t so…
“Since when does screaming at police–and capus police are not “police” under the law, they are private security and do NOT have qualified immunty–get you tazed?”
Its called disorderly conduct, brainstem. Its actually a crime and everything. And the guys on the scene are LAPD according to the news reports.
Here’s a little experiment for you. Go down to the local library, sit on the floor, and start screaming. I don’t care what you scream – it could be “Free Mumia”, “I have alien probes in my brain”, or “Here’s your fuckin’ justice! I’m not resisting!”
Now just keep doing that, and see how long it takes until you are forcefully subdued by the constabulary. No, really. I think this will be a nice introduction to the real world for you.
The faculty at UCLA had sure as hell better be going apeshit over this. Around here, university presidents have been canned for less.
It is well-known on most campuses that you should carry your ID and produce it on demand. But this is generally considered an offense that ranks well below jaywalking, more on a par with wearing white before Memorial Day. If I were a Muslim student, I’d feel put on notice that I’ll be assaulted for the most minor violations.
You just can’t run a University in that atmosphere.
for lhp, pow wow comment at 11:09p 11/15 #129 at latenite on Pajamahedine:
Off topic and speculative, but I wanted to place a marker, for everyone’s information:
The Libby case may be on its way to trial, with the threat of a graymail dismissal gone. That’s based on trying to read the tea leaves of a major sealed Opinion and three Orders issued late Wednesday by Judge Walton, after his ninth closed-door CIPA hearing. The major sealed Opinion/Order is his CIPA Section 6(a) required written ruling, which itemizes what classified evidence Judge Walton has ruled admissible at trial for Libby (and which may have incorporated new substitutions submitted on Wednesday).
If I’m wrong on the tea leaf reading, which is at least a 50% possibility, it appears that there may be a continuance of the CIPA process until the final submission of a second CIPA Section 6(c) classified-substitution motion that the Judge required of the government. A morning ‘Minute Entry’ on PACER about 11/15’s closed hearing may make that clearer. There is also the possibility that the government is headed to an appeal on the first Section 6(c) motion’s denial.
Reporters: This may be a good time to inquire of the Libby team of lawyers about the status of the case…
I’m cautiously optimistic that Special Counsel Fitzgerald has saved his case, with the help of the Intelligence Community and Judge Walton. But one way or the other, it probably won’t be much longer now before we know for sure whether the January trial is set to proceed, or not.
[end pow wow comment]
You’ve always been a nation of authoritarian sadists. There’s video to prove it now that’s all.
Keep raging against it.
lhp, pow wow did have 3 consecutive comments at the end of Secrets 11/16, did you see the last Update? They are at 145, 146, 147. Here is 147 for you.
lhp I think I found what you are looking for.
On the Wreck/shark thread 11/16 at #22 at 3:40pm:
Here’s your linky
hth
Also Chris Dodd thread
#97 10:33pm 11/16
linky
go for it.
Marion in Savannah @ 215
They are. yes they are. it is the “New Democrat Coalition,” an offshoot of the DLC.
New members:
Gabby Giffords (AZ-8)
- Michael Arcuri (NY-24)
- Ed Perlmutter (CO-07)
- Joe Courtney (CT-02)
- Ron Klein (FL-22)
- Tim Mahoney (FL-16)
- Joe Sestak (PA-07)
- Heath Shuler (NC-11)
- Bruce Braley (IA-01)
- Chris Carney (PA-10)
- Nick Lampson (TX-22)
- Jason Altmire (PA-04)
- Kirstin Gillibrand (NY-20)
- Baron Hill (IN-09)
- Chris Murphy (CT-5)
- Patrick Murphy (PA-8)
Old members:
Ellen Tauscher (CA), Chair
Ron Kind (WI), Co-Chair
Artur Davis (AL), Co-Chair
Adam Smith (WA), PAC Chair
Joseph Crowley (NY), Whip
Brian Baird (WA)
John Barrow (GA)
Melissa Bean (IL)
Shelley Berkeley (NV)
Lois Capps (CA)
Russ Carnahan (MO)
Ed Case (HI)
Ben Chandler (KY)
Henry Cuellar (TX)
Jim Davis (FL)
Susan Davis (CA)
Rahm Emanuel (IL)
Eliot Engel (NY)
Bob Etheridge (NC)
Harold Ford (TN)
Charles Gonzalez (TX)
Jane Harman (CA)
Stephanie Herseth (SD)
Brian Higgins (NY)
Rush Holt (NJ)
Darlene Hooley (OR)
Jay Inslee (WA)
Steve Israel (NY)
Rick Larsen (WA)
John Larson (CT)
Carolyn McCarthy (NY)
Mike McIntyre (NC)
Kendrick Meek (FL)
Gregory Meeks (NY)
Charlie Melancon (LA)
Juanita Millender-McDonald (CA)
Dennis Moore (KS)
Jim Moran (VA)
David Price (NC)
Loretta Sanchez (CA)
Adam Schiff (CA)
Allyson Schwartz (PA)
David Scott (GA)
Vic Snyder (AR)
Tom Udall (NM)
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (FL)
David Wu (OR)
Thank you egregious! :-)
I am fairly sure the Fitz case is in no danger of dismissal, because of the way the Nov. 13th opinion was written–”the proscution has to go back to the drawing board” makes it pretty clear that Walton believes that the Team fitz can come up with something that meets the CIPA stnadard. He just thinks they have to work a little harder.
The Libby motion evidently complained that there were entire documents for which no substitute docuemtn was offered. instead only the stipulated facts. Although I think a fair reading of the statute would allow stipulated facts OR substitute documents, Team Libby seems to asking for both.
Walton is no dummy. If he gives them both, he takes away an apppelllate avenue. If the have belt and suspenders how can they say they are afraid their pants will fall down?
I think the except pow wow quoted on the last Libby thread, wherein Fitz says that the complaints in the Libby filing illustrte that the real purpose is the greymail defense, is quite telling.
Libby does not want Pat to stipulate to Facts, according to Pow Wow’s quote, but rather to conclusions that team Irving wants the jury to draw–ie, whatever was going on during that period was SOOOO scary that Scooter had all other thoughts driven from his mind–OK I exaggerated a teensy bit. But that IS the thrust of it.
egregious @ 220
Yes, I saw those which is what got me curious.
Thank you.
Lazy Rivera — there was no screaming until after the assault began.
Your comments are ad hominem and confrontantional, neither respectful nor constructive. You are trolling and you know it.
You’ve already lost your argument. Begone.
I guess they’re saying they’re the coalition of new democrats. Still….
‘morning, Rayne! morning, eveyrone… coffee just finished – who wants some?
OldCoastie @ 227
That would be me [holds out cup].
OC — I’ll take some, thanks. Rough night’s sleep, need to pump some caffienation today.
Think that video from UCLA messed with my head.
I really don’t understand why at least 3 or 4 cops (UCPD, not LAPD) couldn’t pick one guy up and just carry him out.
Louisiana Girl @ 211
My understanding of Chris Murphy (CT-5) is that he is *not* antiprogressive. I know less about Joe Courtney, but I am going to assume he knows better too.
LazyRivera@213. (1)UCLA: This is not the real world, it’s academia. Parents expect the university to act loco parentis (2) You don’t need to faser someone violently and inappropriately for civil disobediance. And this student doesn’t even seem to be resisting. He’s incapacitated. (3)Once you faser someone, it’s to be expected they will be incapacitated. What was going on was pure torture. (4) the whole id card thing was lame. At say a certain NYC school, Yale, New Haven or whereever, , I generally get a wink or the boot if I don’t have an ID. Nothing so excessive and vile as in the video.
Rayne @ 225
I second what Rayne said. Further, in most states disorderly conduct is a violation NOT a misdomeanor, which means you don’t get arrested, you a get a desk appearance ticket. You know, like if you run through a stop sign or spit on the sidewalk???
Getting your legal education and you ideas about proper police procedure from watching COPS–maybe not the best approach. Just sayin’s all.
‘morning, egreg – nice and hot! be careful! I know, Rayne, that video is quite upsetting…
I didn’t watch the video. Just couldn’t. Bad enough hearing about it, such things make me very upset.
I wonder if Lazy Rivera would be so supportive of the campus police if this was his/her child?
Many in this country seem to have forgot the concept of empathy.
Fascinating how those who think the multiple tasing was not only justifiable & even sound gleeful about it can’t imagine that something very similar could ever happen to them or someone they love.
An Angry Old Broad – I’m guessing, with a name like “Lazy”, our troll prolley never had a chance to go to the UC and prolley not his/her kids either…
OC — I’ve only been to three protest rallies in my life, but one of them was so poorly managed by the local police that violence nearly broke out.
I had flashbacks last night after the video, of people screaming in my face and the police doing nothing except hauling away a protester who’d stepped off the sidewalk from the so-called free speech zone to the street.
Even using a camera in their faces couldn’t stop them; they felt no compunction to stop.
That’s what I saw in that video last night, but worse, magnified to violent pain. Ugh. Makes me queasy thinking about it. That poor student. All those other poor students who couldn’t stop it, mentally violated as much as the victim.
looseheadprop @ 229
That’s true. I’ve often seen stridently drunk and swinging club patrons on a hot night on Crown Street — a street of I was had the misfortune to live on–in New Haven treated with more dignity than that student.
Christy’s cooked up some fresh thread, ‘Pups!
Old Coastie,I’ve never been to college,and I still get it.
Life has just become so cheap,alot of people don’t give a rat’s furry butt about violence,as long as that violence is directed at anyone but them. No empathy,which IMO,can be a dangerous thing.
yeah, Angry, I get it… 530am humor isn’t my strong suit…
;-)
looseheadprop @ 231
LHP, I am in breathless awe of your restraint. Admire!
“Your comments are ad hominem and confrontantional, neither respectful nor constructive.” Yes, unlike the quiet reverent posts of Jane, Trex, et.al. How long have you been hanging around here? Its like hearing a Republican cry about the lack of comity and good will.
And Loosehead, perhaps you should make a little effort to further your legal education. This took all of 2 minutes to find:
California Penal Code 647
Every person who commits any of the following acts is guilty of disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor:
[…]
(e) Who loiters or wanders upon the streets or from place to place without apparent reason or business and who refuses to identify
himself or herself and to account for his or her presence when requested by any peace officer so to do, if the surrounding
circumstances would indicate to a reasonable person that the public safety demands this identification.
lazyrivera@244
Perhaps you could further your education by going into a law library and finding all relevant cases related to the loaded wording of clause (e) and tell us how the judges have interpreted this in the past in California.
Googling the law, doesn’t mean knowing how to interpret it. It’s not impressive when we have a number of legal experts resident at FDL.
Lazy at 244 — Well, that’s lovely. But this was a private campus and the officers you see in the video are campus police, who would be following campus rules and regs and not the CA penal code. And I can tell you from personal experience working with cops that you never, ever taser someone on multiple occasions without severe physical threat and provocation — as in, crazed man on PCP attacking you or drugged out guy with knife or some substantial physical threat. Tasering some college kid who forgot his ID — and tasering him on multiple occasions? WAAAAAY over the top — period. Especially because a taser can cause someone with even a mild heart issue to die — and you never, ever want to risk that without there being sufficient physical threat — that’s generally standard training for law enforcement, that your reaction ought to fit the situation you face. Over-reacting to a kid on a computer who forgot his ID and got mouthy? Stupid, dangerous, and not appropriate — and smacks of some campus police who enjoy the smack them around aspect of their job a little too much. Looseheadprop is exactly right — and has way more experience working around cops than I do — so try listening instead of just trying to find various ways to back up your inaccurate position.
Here is part of an article in today’s UCLA student newspaper the Daily Bruin
http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=39001
So there you have it. If someone is not cooperating and you can’t be sure they are not armed (how exactly would you know that) then the UCLA police feel this was justified. Nothing yet about any investigation internal investigation though a local state senator has said that she hopes there in an investigation.
If there are any written guidelines for this sort of use of force by the UCLA cops the local paper has not been able to find them.
Perhaps I have missed it upthread…
but what I find (almost as) equally revolting is the the lack of counter action to stop these sadists. There were more than enough students there….these jerks should have been physically overwhelmed/restrained from employing these tactics. Period. This was a situation where such a response was totally justified….was there not a single person there willing to step forward and physically engage and confront these creeps…and thus protect this victim.
What does this say about us?
Larry at 248,
I’m certain these cops also had guns, and if set upon would use them. That can be quite an effective deterant
Christy, you say campus police don’t enforce the state penal code? For a person concerned with accuracy, you fired that one off without much thought. This is from the UC Website:
“The University of California makes every effort to provide safe campus environments for its students. Every UC campus has a police department staffed by s worn peace officers with full law enforcement authority as well as an array of counseling, education, and safety programs.”
I am not arguing that the matter could not have been handled better. But as a former prosecutor you are aware that police are authorized escalate the use of force to meet the resistance of the perpetrator. Apart from happening in view of a bunch of rich idealistic students, the actions of the police here are not that unusual. And it certainly doesn’t rise to the level of police brutality.
Larry @ 248
Larry, I remember in New Haven there was incident where a man went into a coffee shop and started stabbing people. From what I heard it was sheer pandemonium and noone knew how to act, even though the people in the cafe outnumbered this lone spindly and very disorganized psychotic stabber. Afterwards some kids talked about what *they* would’ve done, but I feel like they would have been in sheer frozen shock as the rest of us. I think whenever I’ve seen some crazy thing happen, everyone including myself gets the glazed eye look before we begin to react. We humans are slow to organize sometimes if something is very shocking or confusing. Just imagine the confusion that this attack comes from a people wearing badges.
Lazy Rivera @ 250
I think the confusion comes because this is a public university, right? At Yale for instance, things are handled differently.
Lazy Rivera @ 250
Yes and an argument can be easily made that the officers disproportionately escalated the violence, since the student was basically keeled over probably from the faser, and created an “unsafe” environment and pandemonium among freaked out students over the brutality, thereby violating the laws that they were sworn to uphold.
Lazy Rivera @ 250
Please list all students who witnessed the incident and provide quantitative evidence of wealth and idealism for each. If you can’t do this, then please post a retraction of this statement.
I’m probably late here but is there any indication of other students being asked for ID? Or was it profiling.
And, Lazy Riviera — the student was at a computer — not wandering around aimlessly. Wasting time responding to you, however, is wasting time.
Oh, god, LR, shut the fuck up.