Chuck Schumer has not been getting very good publicity around here, and I know Chuck loves good publicity. Over at Dkos, Chuck has gotten around to saying thank you to the grassroots. Good for him. He also says:
Our efforts over the past two years have proven there is a new dynamic for recruiting candidates and winning elections in our party. And that the best way for Democrats to win, and to pursue the values we hold dear, is for all of us to work together. The power and vibrancy of the netroots is as exciting and effective as it is new. And I admit that in the past, there has not been enough of a real dialogue between the netroots community and our campaign leadership, including me. But please know that today marks a personal, earnest effort to converse, engage, and listen that will continue over the next two years and into the future.
I look forward to learning what the DSCC has in mind to ensure popular grassroots candidates are supported, not squelched, and not required to follow the dictates of DC imposed campaign strategies, messaging and consultants. What will be the structures, safeguards and metrics to ensure joint success? How open and collaborative will the process of candidate selection actually be?
I look forward to seeing results. If Chuck wants to earn grassroots trust, he can have his chance, but it will be all about actions and words, not just words alone.
I expect we have not heard the last of the inside dope from the Lamont campaign, but in the meantime, let's all have a cookie.
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FITZ!
No cookies for me…. I am on a pre-holiday diet…
mmmm, cookies…
How come it sounds to me like somebody did some election results research?
Walk the walk.
I reserve further judgment until I see sustained evidence of walking the walk.
I look forward to learning what the DSCC has in mind to ensure popular grassroots candidates are supported, not squelched, and not required to follow the dictates of DC imposed campaign strategies, messaging and consultants.
BWHAHAHAHA, oh murder. BWHAHAHAHA!
Rayne @
5
^^
You mean the best way to win is to WORK TOGETHER? NO WAI!
Did someone say “cookies”? I’ll bring the oatmeal butterscotch version.
grassroots cookies….mmmm
TheOtherWA @ 8
just bring the
oatmeal butterscotchversion.In all seriousness, it was good of him to post that and acknowledge everyone’s efforts. Even if he only referred to the 50 State Plan as the DNC’s, without ever mentioning Howard Dean. Hmmm.
Seal the deal, Chuck. Now that you’ve talked the talk, walk the walk. We’re watching.
I read the whole Kos diary and I didn’t hear him say “the fucking liberals are ruining the party” once.
I guess saves that for the NYT, the WaPo or Fox News?
I am glad Schumer posted his diary. But I am very troubled by Blue Majority’s endorsement of Karen Carter, who is DLC. I know Bill Jefferson is not much better, but she is DLC!!!!!!!!!!!!
punaise @ 10
Liquid snacks, huh? I can do that. ;)
Chuck Schumer should vow to stay out of the Montana Senate Primary is he truly wants to be part of the “new dynamic for recruiting candidates and winning elections in our party.”
I think the message is clear from Chuckie… just look at what they did for Lamont
On another note, this site did wonderful work with the Plame/Fitzgerald investigation. Does anyone know anything about what is going to happen or if anything is going to happen? Is the plan just to approach Libby’s January trial date to hope the coverup ranks fold. What deal could Fitz possibly have cut with Rove? I am fast losing confidence in Fitz. He should speak up or get out.
I’m not saying they’re right or wrong to do so, but TPM seems to be leaning anti-Murtha.
Jane Hamsher @ 12
And the New York Post, and fundraising dinners, and. . .
oops: they’re, not their. TRex is gonna be all over my case.
TheOtherWA @ 11
In my experience what Schumer means when he says “work together” is “shut up and do what I say.”
In SchumerWorld, “negotiation” is a process that starts when Chuck snaps his fingers.
Mark-
Fitz isn’t a politician. He speaks in legal filings and courtrooms. Period. Don’t be so impatient.
For TwistedMartini:
The Dead Schembechlers
Nyuk.
I don’t think I can ever get over the jerks leaving Ned Lamont high and dry.
Screw Schumer, he’s a schmuck
Jane @20-that’s what I was afraid of. *sigh*
TheOtherWA @
8
Scotch. Mmmmmmmmmm.
Jane Hamsher @
20
That’s been my experience. Last time he deigned to spend time on the phone with netroots types, he was walking to a floor vote, barking interruptions, cutting people off and telling me what our readers (you) think. As if I needed him to tell me what you all think. Of course, he got it wrong.
I see two interpretions:
1) Chuck sees the obvious (the netroots can back Democratic candidates and get them elected) and thinks, “Okay, they’ve proven themselves, let’s make peace, get ‘em in the tent pissing out.”
2) Chuck sees the obvious and thinks, “Shit, these folks have power and therefore need to be controlled.
Personally, I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Unless he failed 3rd grade math, Chuck can read the success scores as well as anybody else. This is probably as close to a “good on ya” as we’re likely to see from the Democratic establishment at this point. Let’s bargain, not bash.
katymine @ 11:42 am (#2)
OT: It’s not even Thanksgiving, and the local Big Lots store is already full of Christmas stuff, including food, of course. Much of it’s been there for weeks already. This is just too bizarre.
I don’t celebrate Christmas, but thanks to working on a play about it, I’m doing some shopping anyway. Usually, Christmas is the time I avoid shopping, so maybe it’s been this bad for a while and I’m just noticing.
Balrog @ 22
I saw that, it was pretty funny! They all dress up like Woody Hayes. I was watching a Q&A that Bo was doing and somebody asked him about them. He laughed and said ” I almost joined them a couple of weeks ago!”
Awww. Chuckie’s in love.
(thank you Rickie Lee)
“The vice is nice, it stays in the back all day”
I’d be interested to know what role (if any) Debbie Stabenow will play over the next couple of years in her role as Chair of Steering and Outreach Committee:
Just like a Democrat, Pach wants metrics, standards, timelines and benchmarks, only this time from our own team. Don’t you know, dear, that timelines and benchmarks are unpatriotic and disloyal? /snark
In the same way that Schumer wants to earn our trust, I suggest we show him that we trust the DSCC to implement a comprehensive, metric-driven, non-primary-based, grassroots strategy to elect Democratic Senators in 2008. One way for us to trust the DSCC to do this would be for the DSCC to trust us to tell them to trust someone other than Chuck to run the DSCC.
Senators up in 2008:
State Senator Party Senior/Junior Senator?
AL Ted Stevens R Sr
AL Jefferson Sessions R Jr
AR Mark Pryor D Jr
CO Wayne Allard R Sr
DE Joseph Biden Jr. D Sr
GA C. Saxby Chambliss R Sr
IA Tom Harkin D Jr
ID Larry Craig R Sr
IL Richard J. Durbin D Sr
KS Pat Roberts R Jr
KY Mitch McConnell R Sr
LA Mary Landrieu D Sr
MA John Kerry D Jr
ME Susan Collins R Jr
MI Carl Levin D Sr
MN Norm Coleman R Jr
MS Thad Cochran R Sr
MT Max Baucus D Sr
NC Elizabeth Dole R Sr
NE Charles Hagel R Sr
NH John Sununu R Jr
NJ Frank Lautenberg D Jr
NM Pete Domenici R Sr
OK James Inhofe R Sr
OR Gordon Harold Smith R Jr
RI John F. Reed D Sr
SC Lindsey Graham R Sr
SD Tim Johnson D Sr
TN Lamar Alexander R Jr
TX John Cornyn R Jr
VA John Warner R Sr
WV John Rockefeller, IV D Jr
WY Michael Enzi R Jr
http://www.vote-smart.org/cong…..lasses.php
Thanks for the nod, Senator Schumer. Could you please consider showing your appreciation by kicking Benedict Liarman to the curb for us, a few hundred thousand times?
BTW, did our life just become a lot (punn intended) easier now that Sen White Sheets Lott has become minority leader? Given that his finely tuned hatred of the preznit seems to be even more acute than his hatred of lib’ruls, might he do us a big favor and make the rethug part of the senate a giant presidential payback machine? Ah, the politics of personal ego.
Thanks for reminding us, Pach. Of course you already know my feelings on the subject.
statusquomustgo @
23
Exactly!
Perhaps I am a bit paranoid when it comes to Lieberman, but I am waiting for him to produce the knife if you know what I mean…
In this MSNBC article The Bush era gives way to the Schumer era?, we find the Senator repentant over his Alito cloture vote:
statusquomustgo @
23
I know exactly how you feel.
1,335 DYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Pachacutec and Firepup Patriots:
Schumer and Rahm are in charge of Mrs. Clintion’s palace guard and they are playin “good cop – bad cop” with us great unwashed and with the corporate media.
The torpedoe attacks on Reid and the undermining of Pelosi (watch out for Josh Marshall, he’s been frontin’ for the DLC for a long time) are orchestrated and choreographed from Mrs. Clinton’s Senate office. I’m afraid that the Bush Crime Syndicate is settin’ up a campaign of Clinton vrs. Jeb Bush and we ken expect Rahm to guide the entire Democratic election effort over a cliff.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE FUCKIN’ AMMUNITION, WE CAN’T WAIT ‘TIL 08 TA SAVE OUR COUNTRY!!
I would like nothing better than to see the DSCC and the DCCC become irrelevant. Go directly to the source, the roots.
Louisiana Girl @ 13
Who is Blue Majority?
http://www.actblue.com/page/bl…..=DKosLA-02
Their other cause is the Christine Jennings recount. Christine is a GOP-lite Dem. Clearly, BlueMajority is in “best worst” mode right now, to which they are entitled.
punaise @ 19
there, there….
scarecrow: that gutting of cloture on Alito should have made it into my 12 Reasons Not to Trust Chuck Schumer.
At that time, Chuck was all about talking ONLY about Bush and maybe Ports Dubai for the election season. He did not want to give the GOP any excuse to call Dems uppity or anything. So now we have Alito. Fucking thanks, Chuck.
Also, I have no doubt he’d make the same calculation again. His “regret” rings hollow.
“What will be the structures, safeguards and metrics to ensure joint success?”
This feels like one of those circumstances where maintaining independence enhances health and competitiveness within a group that is otherwise inclined to work together.
I also had a flash back to when the WaPo was suddenly interested in talking with Jane about her working as a blogger in some capacity with them. Seems like that happened around the time she was getting ‘noticed’ and was likely being experienced as a burr under the saddle for some there.
The point being, sometimes it’s easier to try to weaken a force by attempting to absorb it rather than by destroying it.
Pachacutec @ 26
It appears that Schumer always believes himself to be the smartest person in the room.
I read an article mentioning that he got a 1600 on his SAT’s. The message that I took away from the article is that Schumer is the kind of person who still talks about his SAT scores.
For Schumer, the next few years will be an ongoing (and painful) education in wisdom of (progressive, netroots) crowds.
Schumer would save himself a lot of angst if he realized that we are his intellectual peers, and should be treated accordingly.
punaise @ 17
I’ve noticed that too. Josh was the first to push the “Murtha is corrupt” meme. Now, he might be. The evidence is a little murky and open to interpretation. And as much as I love Josh, I never forget that he is a friend of the DLC and a big Marshall Whitman supporter. Makes you kind of wonder who’s been handing out the talking points on Murtha.
xyz:
I’m offended by that on your behalf and on behalf of the community. We were fucking smart enough to read the Iraq polls a lot sooner than Chuck was (let alone knowing right from wrong). He’s not your peer.
I made this comment on the kos/schumer diary:
and one person called me an ass, ha. But I think I’m right, even if I am an ass.
Cujo359 @ 28
Unless I am wack-o, it seems to me we are gifted with an extraordinarily odd November calendar this year. Election Day can not have been LATER , in that it has to happen on the first Tuesday. Thanksgiving, on the other hand, cannot be EARLIER, in that it has to be the second-to-last Thursday in November. My point being, only in a November like 2006’s can there be so little time between Election Day and Thanksgiving.
No comments are required with regard to the presumptive “unless” in the paragraph above.
TeddySanFran @ 40
But read the Karen Carter DLC article. She is someone who believes we need to move beyond Civil Rights. She is just another Obama. DLC!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave 31 — good question. I hope Sen. Stabenow puts her IT team to work with her outreach efforts. She’s got at least one team member who COMPLETELY groks the netroots-grassroots thing.
I was supposed to catch up with this person on Friday, but it looks like it’ll have to wait. We’ll keep you posted.
OFTopic, but HEH.
2006’s worst political mishaps, captured digitally by the alert populace.
Witchywoman @ 45
I know nothing of talking points on Murtha. I *did*, however, just see some old tapes (from Abscam) involving Murtha. I no longer trust the guy.
God bless him for his stance on Iraq – and that’s as far as I’m willing to go.
*xyz @ 44
He needs to learn that you can be someone who had really high SAT scores and yet doesn’t know what he’s talking about. All it takes is not examing one’s assumptions. Or, in plainer language, all it takes is being arrogant.
TeddySanFran @ 48
It’s OK with me. I need a couple of days off to recuperate from the elections.
“Trust but verify.”
-the GOP’s best quote
Louisiana Girl — you know, we’ve heard your opinion several times about Karen Carter.
Point taken.
But between Jefferson and Carter, what would you have us do?
If you’re in the district, you could start working on recruiting and grooming a better candidate for the next go-round; in the mean time, it’s the lesser of two evils and hold their feet to their fire for the duration of their term.
Could the Kossacks have possibly kissed Schumer’s ass more? The gushing “thank yous” were nauseating.
LindaR @ 47
and one person called me an ass, ha. But I think I’m right, even if I am an ass.
There were a lot of Schumer apologists over there on that Kos thread. DailyKos has a lot of commenters with strong affinities toward particular 2008 candidates and individuals in the Democratic leadership. Makes me wonder how many people are being paid to hang out at DailyKos and keep the flame burning for their bosses.
Hillary is Stabenow’s predecessor in this Chair of Outreach role, I recall. Hill stood down to Vice in order to “focus on her committee work and other things,” Olbermann said last nite. If there’s IT, staff, rolodexes and other infrastructure already in place at the Outreach Chair Desk, I hope Hill leaves it for Senator Stabenow, rather than take it with her to whatever those “other things” are. Just sayin’
1,335 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Patriots:
We gotta situation here…just when we get rid a the neo-cons in the White House, we get ‘em back in spades in the Democratic Party leadership…somebody hasta get Peolsi’s back and we simply MUST get Al Gore inta the game early or Mrs. Clinton and James Baker are gunna have the courts closed by next Spring.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE TARGETS ARE CLEARIN’ OUTTA THE BUSHES!!
Well, the celebration didn’t last long. I hope there’s still a Democratic majority in the House and Senate by January, but at the moment, there is enough fratricide going on to make it questionable.
What was it our beloved Secretary of Defense said? “You regain control of Congress with the majority you have, not the one you’d like to have.”
I find some of the self flagellation going on unhelpful; we were stomped into the mud for six years as the country managed to kill/main hundreds of thousands of people and our reputation was brought into shame under a lawless regime. We have an admittedly imperfect Party now coming into power (in Congress), and there’s a chance they can start to turn this around. Or at least keep it from getting worse.
The issue is still the Bush/Cheney presidency and the harm he/they can do to the country for the next two years. I hope we can hang together long enough to keep that focus, even as we work to improve the Democratic party and the repair the country’s democratic institutions. And if Schumer or anyone wants to reach out to help that, I’ll reach back, even if I wouldn’t trust them on other issues.
Witchywoman @ 45
Yes, the long knives are really out for Murtha. Yes, he has baggage. Anyone in DC for any considerable length of time has some and perhaps he has more than most. At any other time, he would be far from my choice. But there is a very large dead elephant in the middle of the room. Its named Iraq. Unless the dead elephant is kept front and center, there is absolutely zero chance that anything will happen on that front. Murtha has changed the dialougue on this.
There are a lot of interests working over time to plant one in Murtha’s back. Hoyer has self-interested reasons, but the Repubs are helping. Bush must be scared to death that Murtha may get the bully pulpit majority leader.
jayt 52 — do you believe a person is capable of learning and improving?
Do you think Murtha’s position on Iraq has been set in stone since 2003, or is it the result of learning and improving?
Do you think that our corporate media has your best interests at heart?
Just asking.
scarecrow @ 61
thanks for the reminder… even slowing down the speed of getting worse would be a good thing.
dave @ 57
Now that you say that, I don’t think I will go over and read it.
I keep wondering how we can simply make the DSCC and DCCC irrelevant. How can we convince future candidates that we have more influence and can ge them elected? Am I simply being too idealistic and simplistic here?
*xyz @ 58 — I see. I was also told my comment was “vile” which is crap. My feelings are as valid as the next person’s, and I was just saying what it felt like. Too often, ordinary people are used as props by the powers. I think this post by “Schumer” at Daily Kos was just that: using Daily Kos for a “net op” and the comments to the diary as backdrop, just like soldiers at a Bush speech.
Bull fkn shite.
LindaR @
47
and one person called me an ass, ha. But I think I’m right, even if I am an ass.
I posted a comment on the same diary and have been troll rated 54 times…BUT I’VE GOTTEN OVER 90 4-RATINGS. Glad to know I’m not alone!
(By the way, I gave you a “recommend” for your comment!)
scarecrow @ 61– here’s a very good article that I linked to earlier today that is along the lines of part of your message. I thank you.
http://www.tompaine.com/articl…..mp_out.php
Sha @ 67
I posted a comment on the same diary and have been troll rated 54 times…BUT I’VE GOTTEN OVER 90 4-RATINGS. Glad to know I’m not alone!
(By the way, I gave you a “recommend” for your comment!)
Ha! (thanks for the recommend) I love Kos for what it is, but nothing beats the civility and intelligence of the ‘lake!!
Rayne @ 63
Do you think it’s possible to find a Democrat who wasn’t in a room (albeit 20 some years ago) considering whether or not he trusted the guy across the room from him enough to accept a $50K bribe from him? I do.
I now find both Hoyer and Murtha to be unacceptable.
If Murtha’s made Majority Leader, those old Abscam tapes are going to be front and center on that corporate media which – no, I do not believe to have my interests at heart.
They’ll crucify him with those tapes – but may well be waiting until after his selection to really bring them out.
The voters decided this last Tuesday: they want straight talk on Iraq, and that is Murtha. Taylor did a terrific piece on this yesterday: Murtha has the military behind him.
Hoyer is pro-war/A|PAC/K-street. He is a neo-con dream.
darkblack — you out there?
Beauty job on that “Forgotten Laptop”, by the way. Great shade of pink — somewhere between “pink sugar”, Pepto pink and Mary Kay cosmetics pink.
But now we’ve got another job for you, should you choose to accept this assignment:
Carville: Rahm’s Sock Puppet?
Heh.
Pachacutec @ 46
Thanks. I used the term “peer” advisedly as I was trying to avoid coming across as being as arrogant as the person I was criticizing for having an inflated ego. Pot, kettle and all that.
For now, all I’m asking is that Schumer recognize us as (at least) his intellectual peers and treat us honestly and with respect. I have serious doubts about whether even this modest request will ever be met.
angie at 68: thanks, I saw your link earlier. That post is definitely worth reading — and i think there are a lot of Dems that share that view — not all, but a lot, and now they have the power to do something about it.
jayt — I hear your concern. But here’s the rub: Murtha wasn’t prosecuted.
And Hoyer could kill this fledgling 110th Congress in its cradle with his backstabbing, before Pelosi and the rest of the crew get sworn in.
If after we get a working plan in place on Iraq we still have concerns about Murtha, then we go after him. But Hoyer is NO good to us for Iraq and just as bad for this new Speaker and Congress.
*xyz @ 73
We don’t need to ask him for anything. In fact it’s the other way around. He is the one-down guy in this situation and he knows it.
If Hoyer is behind pushing the ABSCAM story, the new members should think of this: Why wouldn’t Hoyer be even quicker to throw them under the bus if it would serve his purpose? I lean toward Murtha, imperfect as he is, because there is nothing I find redeeming in Hoyer.
Rayne @ 75
I agree with Rayne; that’s the right calculation; it ain’t pretty, but the only apparent (is our bench really that weak?) alternative before us is worse.
*xyz @
44
Oh lordy that does say it all right there.
1,335 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
crick and the Firepup Patriots:
There is not one dime’s worth of difference between the Clinton machine and the corporate fascist Bush Crime Syndicate…both are workin’ hand in glove thru the corporate media and are playin the blogs thru Josh Marshall and Daily Kos.
This is all about Iraq and the interests of the American oligarchy…the DLC, Clinton, the neo-cons, all are workin for the same bosses. The end game is for 3-way partition of Iraq and permanent civil war in the region. There will be an American military presence in the middle of the conflict to pull guard duty and hold checkpoints for the corporate mercenary militias until the split is accomplished and the corporate goons can play the locals by themselves.
Wake up folks…the consolidation of power is happening right now. When the new Congress convenes, the leadership and control of the majorities in both houses will look a lot different than they do now…as a matter of fact, I predict that Lieberman will caucus with the Republicans and Steny Hoyer will take the Speaker’s job with Rahm as floor leader.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THERE ARE SOME BATTLES WE CAN’T WIN!!
sofistic @ 65
No.
Jane Hamsher @ 20
In my experience what Schumer means when he says “work together” is “shut up and do what I say.”
In SchumerWorld, “negotiation” is a process that starts when Chuck snaps his fingers.
Ah. A Bush compromiser.
sofistic @ 76
Agreed. When I speak of “asking” Schumer for something, I just employing a rhetorical device.
I realize that we in the netroots have a great deal of power to deploy against Schumer if need be and we needn’t come knocking on his door with hat in hand, begging for his help or respect.
Really, it is for his sake as well as ours that I ask him to treat us as (at least) his intellectual peers.
If he does not, the next few years will be extremely painful for him – as I pointed up above at 46.
The best thing that we can do is keep working and evolving. Look at how far we came in 2 years. As we continue to grow and hone our message and skills, and the payoff will be to neuter Chuck and Rahm.
Taylor on Murtha.
I’ll jump with joy anytime TradMed shows videos of Jack Murtha not taking money from a fake sheik. It gives me an opportunity to post this link yet again:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news…..-515h.html
Whose bribe-declining has hurt our country more, eh?
Chuck bullshits with the best of ‘em. But, hey, if turns out he’s sincerely, terrific.
.
*xyz @ 73
1. I don’t think our self respect should depend on what Schumer or anyone else thinks. Where did this insecurity come from?
2. He didn’t have to write the letter. But he did. We don’t know his motivations, but the next time some talking head says, “Schumer/Rahm did it all; the netroots did nothing,” you can show them what on its face is a gracious thank you letter. It’s not a “fuck you” letter; it’s a thank you letter. That’s what he gave you, whether you value it or not, and whether or not you trust the motivation.
3. The story is changing. At first, it was all them; then Jane, Howie, kos others said, “BS. Here’s what really happened.” And the story is changing. Schumer’s letter can be seen as part of that acknowledgment, and that’s healthy for the party and for us.
4. Mother said, “when someone says ‘thank you,’ it’s polite to say ‘you’re welcome.’” She didn’t say, “and you should marry the guy.”
punaise @
17
and John Amato seems to be leaning to Murtha.
The whole conversation at Kos was acrimonious and nasty. A few folks weighed in early on the Lamont episode and got shot at fast.
I thought it was terrific that Schumer would come by. I tried to search the threads for his comments to see if he or his proxy stuck around, but control-F didn’t work. My hunch is that they are poring over the entire thing, hoping to come up with an algorithm for understanding the netroots.
Over the last week I have seen potshots at Aravosis, Kos, Josh Marshall, patriotboy and others on rival sites. Is this a response to success? Are we splitting along ideological lines now that we have some spoils to divide?
Kos posted an advertising policy yesterday. Clearly, the relationship of blogs to corporate money will become more and more important. As well, our relationships to the powerful within the Democratic party will be more important.
How do we keep our voice, our civility, our acumen, AND our authenticity while gaining populairty and its consequent access to power and cash?
Clearly the HRC and NARAL are only a few steps behind the party itself in the race to cash in principles. The Sierra Club crashed and burned over nativist isses a few years ago. CNN, the Times and the Post are no longer progressive voices.
How does one sustain a progressive blog? The answer seems much less clear this week than it did before the election.
Did Murtha take the bribe?
Abscam is a silly thing to bring up. The FBI shut that investigation down finally when it started to become clear that they could get a meeting with anyone they decided they wanted, regardless of party or reputation. All but a small handful took the bribes. I mean dozens took ‘em, and like 3 didn’t. I don’t remember – was Murtha one of the few or the many?
Besides – what functions now is that Murtha is a Pelosi loyalist while Hoyer always been at odds with her. I dont want to spend the next two years reading about divided party leadership.
Grandma knows that Murtha is to ethics reform as Nixon was to China.
Millineryman @
84
Ahh, the pictures you conjur, but I digress.
“That’s been my experience. Last time he deigned to spend time on the phone with netroots types, he was walking to a floor vote, barking interruptions, cutting people off and telling me what our readers (you) think. As if I needed him to tell me what you all think. Of course, he got it wrong.”
Huh! As if! Everyone knows the mighty Kos tells us what to think.
Oh Teddy…only Nixon could go to China.
Geeno @ 91
you can watch the murtha fbi video for yourself (link is embedded in tpm article)… one can support him as the lesser of two evils without being blind to his potential ethics issues.
scarecrow @ 88
No insecurity. As I mentioned above, just a rhetorical request, more for Schumer’s sake than for ours. As I’ve said above, starting with my comment at 46, if Schumer persists in believing he is smarter than us and can “outwit” us, he is in for a world of pain over the next several years.
Geeno
A few days back, Pachacutec wrote an important post about three political “parties,” noting the battle between the corporatists and the progressives (or something like that) and the theocrats. The Hoyer effort against Pelosi seems to be part of that (or perhaps a fight between degrees of corporatism).
The opposition to Murtha seems to be becoming from an alliance of corporatists and war hawks — and that’s a pretty vicious alliance for Murtha to oppose. We’ve seen the Murtha tapes before — the Republicans leaked them when Murtha first spoke up against Bush war policies a year ago; now they’re back in force.
If you want to stop the war, you have to expect the ugliest of fights internally, and that’s what I see happening.
new thread
Rayne @
95
My point exactly. Who better to get Corrupt Corporate Dems off the K-Street dole and the Earmark Express? Not Steny — Jack Murtha.
Jane Hamsher @ 79
funny thing is, 1600 in today’s college market doesn’t get you jack anymore. 2400 is the new 1600, because they’ve expanding the SAT reasoning test to three sections of 800 instead of two.
at this point there is one over-riding reason to root for Murtha: Pelosi has staked her future on his election.
The question is has Murtha learned anything since. I know he likes earmarks, but so do many others. This doesn’t excuse him, but having been caught often is a lesson learned. I remember being caught taking something I shouldn’t in a local store. My parents’ reaction and the humiliation made me never to consider doing anything like that again. If it had been on video I might have been tarred forever. Politics can be sleazy but who will support Pelosi is the right person. Murtha won’t be in this position for long just at a key time for Pelosi’s agenda to move forward.
Could someone post a link to the new thread in the comments….The Toobz are slow down here today (anything to do with icebergs now drifting off the coast of NZ?)….and I can’t get to the new thread by more traditional means. Thanks.
punaise @ 102
Or else she’s given the BlueDogs an out with their constituents — “I voted for Grandma, but I don’t follow her every order. I disobeyed her and voted my conscience, for Steny.”
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..s/#respond
*xyz
I don’t doubt the man’s intelligence, or yours; but I don’t see why we need him to admit/concede anything on this topic. I’m suggesting that these are side issues, when what we care about is whether he’ll do all in his power to keep the next Alito out or oppose the next assault on the Bill of Rights (e.g, the warrantless surveillance issue, or repeal of the worst parts of the Military Commissions Act), and so on. What Rayne said: “walk the walk.”
new thread
sofistic @ 65
Thanks….by the way, we were asked by many Kiwis if we were leaving to go home, now that Americans were starting to gain their senses. Nope, it will take longer to repair the job opportunities in environmental regulation and litigation before we can find work back there. After the 2002 election, my husband’s company had contract cancellations from people who openly said, “It doesn’t matter what we do now. No one is going to enforce any of this.”
Yes, scarecrow, these ARE side issues, but in that our Congress doesn’t take office until 1/07, should we let the corporatists define the debate about our party’s future? That debate, while beloved by TradMed for its binary-ness, conflict, out-in-the-open fighting, and mysogyny, also shows our party to be fundamentally, in victory, unlike the GOP. I think this debate, and the name-calling it devolves to in non-TradMed, is critical and should be transparent.
1,335 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Patriots:
This fight for the House floor leadership is crucial, in a sense we are fightin’ to finally close the wounds of the Viet Nam War and at the same time stop those folks who brought us that war and wanted to make it permanent and want to make war in the Middle East permanent.
For me, as a Viet Nam Vet, this fight for Murtha is personal. I have no love of Murtha’s politics but take this to the bank…Murtha NEVER bailed out on veterans and NEVER swift boated anyone who had seen the real thing. In fact, as corrupt as the old Democratic machine was in it’s last days, the Democrats never forgot the veterans and never forgot the fundamentals of just who fights the wars and for whom the wars are supposed to be fought.
The real fight for the future of our democracy has begun in the backrooms in DC and in the corporate press and thru the big blogs. The forces of the DLC, Mrs. Clinton, AIPAC, the neo-cons and the oligarcy are on one side. The military, the grunts in the trenches, the old war horses (tainted as they are)and WE are on the other side.
The fight for the soul of theDemocratic Party is in the hands of Nancy Pelosi and John Murtha…we didn’t get ta vote on who was gunna fight for us or where the battle would be fought, but we can’t give up on those that are puttin’ themselves out there for us.
If Pelosi and John Murtha lose this battle for control of the House of Representatives the election results are nullified. It’s that simple. And if that battle is lost…we will be in Iraq until our miliotary is broken and the corporate militias are strong enough to take their place.
KEEP THE FAITH AND WATCH THEIR BACKS…AND THEIR WARTS AND THEIR WEAKNESSES!!
scarecrow @ 107
I think we are actually on the same page.
The reason that I want Schumer to respect and fear the progressive netroots is because I want us, the netroots to have a strong influence about all of the decisions that he will make on the important issues that you mention above.
I don’t trust Schumer to do the right thing based on his moral compass, but I believe that he can be compelled by the netroots to act according to our values.
This will only happen if he is convinced that we in the netroots are smart enough and powerful enough to make it politically personally painful for him to betray our progressive values on the important legislation that he will have a role in drafting and ushering through.
So, far from being a side issue, Schumer’s relationship to the netroots is the core dynamic that will determine how he treats the issues that you mentioned.
I think Nancy has made a huge mistake backing Murtha – and my thoughts on this have nothing to do with backing Hoyer. She made what looks like a JV political calculation far too early in the new majority game.
Murtha as leader is a bad call – just read this diary on Kos about a staffer on the AZ01 campaign who said they asked Murtha for help and he refused. Why? Because he’s friends with Renzi’s father. Honestly. That is a bunch of bullcrap.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/15/161814/53
LindaR @ 66
Ha! See this is what I hate some of the more male-oriented blogs. Other commenters accuse us of being vile or using strong language and being irrational when really we are exercising critical thought and justified skepticism with forceful language. I’ve seen everybody kind of fall in line at some blogs and agree on some pretty absurd stuff, whereas it seems more rare at FDL.
was that diary on DK REALLY from chuck schumer? he is my senator and it sure didnt sound like it came from him….could he have assigned an intern to post something to the net roots? he didnt even mention the net when he took ALL credit for the democratic victory for himself in local NY interviews.
so was that diary on dailykos really from schumer?
KnotIookin @
116
Did he type it or sit at a keyboard? I’m sure he didn’t. Did he see the statement and approve it before it was posted. I’d be very surprised if he didn’t.
Well, Chuck…
I know you have a supreme ego and an arrogant vanity to go with your superior intellect and clever abilities. So I can imagine it was torture for you to write even the soft-pedaled mea culpa you came up with in your Kos diary. Thus, it may be a sincere message, though rather submerged.
But you know, there’s that whole AIPAC/Likud loyalist thing going on with you and yours. So this is all pretty easy for you to say now (AIPAC won’t really mind), in an effort to forestall further damning details out of the Lamont campaign concerning you and Harry Reid.
From where I’m standing, you need to do one thing first and above all, Senator Schumer: apologize for and admit your error in supporting the violent invasion and occupation of Iraq. After you’ve publicly done that, and privately called and apologized to Paul Hackett (even if he isn’t willing to accept an apology from you), and made some public effort to explain your behind-the-scenes support for Lieberman against Lamont post-primary, I’ll start listening to your words with the assumption that they are spoken in good faith. I’m not interested in a permanent American military base covering the country formerly-known-as-Iraq, maintained just so that the US can play the Middle East heavy on Israel’s (Likud Party) behalf. Nor do I believe that the “national interests” of the USA are enhanced, or even maintained, by lusting after and stealing Iraq’s oil revenues to improve the plush bottom lines of American or Saudi stockholders. So I won’t be lining up behind you, no doubt, any time soon. Others will quite probably be more forgiving of your imperial foreign policy views – although these days those others generally call themselves Republicans (just ask Holy Joe).
Your standards have fallen so, so low in your unprincipled pursuit of “winning” at any and all cost, that you have a lot of climbing to do to get back in the good graces of the informed American voter. Your diary is a baby step. Keep climbing.
TheOtherWA @
21
Fitz isn’t a politician. He speaks in legal filings and courtrooms. Period. Don’t be so impatient.
Granted, but he is giving the appearance of playing politics. After all this time– and notice the mid-terms just passed so if Fitz raises his hand now it will look political– the guy needs to lay down his cards. This is beginning to look like one of those investigations that go on and on and on with no meaningful conclusion. We all know the basic outline of what happened. If he can’t prove it by now, either he is too cautious, political or just doesn’t have the goods.
chuck the fuck….the reason why I will never give one penny to any democratic organization he is connected with…this piece of shiite shares a mutual admiration society membership with ole rape gurney joe.
the mf screwed Ned Lamont and for that I will never forgive him.
Howard Dean…if you or any of your troops are reading this…I will gladly contribute. Just make sure that the stench of schumer, lie berman, and carsmell are not involved…