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	<title>Comments on: Petulant</title>
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		<title>By: Terri</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-384503</link>
		<dc:creator>Terri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-384503</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-383658&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Steve @&lt;br /&gt;
                75              &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Has this been posted here? If not, here is the Iraq study group.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;James Baker - US Secretary of State, 1989-92&lt;br /&gt;
James F. Dobbins - US Ambassador to the EU, 1991-93&lt;br /&gt;
Charles W. Freeman, Jr. - US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, 1989-92&lt;br /&gt;
Lawrence Eagleburger - Secretary of State, 1992-1993 (taking Robert M. Gates, nominee for SecDef)&lt;br /&gt;
Lee H. Hamilton - 9-11 Commission vice chairman&lt;br /&gt;
Vernon Jordan - Advisor to Bill Clinton&lt;br /&gt;
Ed Meese - Attorney General under Reagan, 1985-88&lt;br /&gt;
Sandra Day O’Connor - US Supreme Court Justice, 1981-2006&lt;br /&gt;
Leon Panetta - Bill Clinton’s Chief of Staff, 1994-96&lt;br /&gt;
William J. Perry - US Secretary of Defense, 1994-97&lt;br /&gt;
Chuck Robb - US Senator from Virginia, 1989-2001&lt;br /&gt;
Alan Simpson - US Senator from Wyoming, 1979-1997&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Jebus if this is the best we can do to get us out of Iraq..we are really screwed&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;OLD BOY CRONY-ISM IS NOT GOOD MANAGEMENT.   And, don’t tell me that Sandra Day O’Connor is not an old boy.  Even if she’s not an old boy, she’s the only freakin’ women in the room.  Hell, I’d even be happy if they thought to include anyone from the military, even a male.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We cannot trust that BushCo can attract good help.  Bunch of freakin’ crony suits, fercrissakes.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-383658"><em>Steve @<br />
                75              </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Has this been posted here? If not, here is the Iraq study group.</p>
<p>James Baker &#8211; US Secretary of State, 1989-92<br />
James F. Dobbins &#8211; US Ambassador to the EU, 1991-93<br />
Charles W. Freeman, Jr. &#8211; US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, 1989-92<br />
Lawrence Eagleburger &#8211; Secretary of State, 1992-1993 (taking Robert M. Gates, nominee for SecDef)<br />
Lee H. Hamilton &#8211; 9-11 Commission vice chairman<br />
Vernon Jordan &#8211; Advisor to Bill Clinton<br />
Ed Meese &#8211; Attorney General under Reagan, 1985-88<br />
Sandra Day O’Connor &#8211; US Supreme Court Justice, 1981-2006<br />
Leon Panetta &#8211; Bill Clinton’s Chief of Staff, 1994-96<br />
William J. Perry &#8211; US Secretary of Defense, 1994-97<br />
Chuck Robb &#8211; US Senator from Virginia, 1989-2001<br />
Alan Simpson &#8211; US Senator from Wyoming, 1979-1997</p>
<p>Jebus if this is the best we can do to get us out of Iraq..we are really screwed</p>
</blockquote>
<p>OLD BOY CRONY-ISM IS NOT GOOD MANAGEMENT.   And, don’t tell me that Sandra Day O’Connor is not an old boy.  Even if she’s not an old boy, she’s the only freakin’ women in the room.  Hell, I’d even be happy if they thought to include anyone from the military, even a male.</p>
<p>We cannot trust that BushCo can attract good help.  Bunch of freakin’ crony suits, fercrissakes.</p>
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		<title>By: Janeane The Acerbic Goblin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-384315</link>
		<dc:creator>Janeane The Acerbic Goblin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 03:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-384315</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-383699&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Blub @ 115 &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;He.  Wonkette just recapped a quote from the Bush’s last weekly radio address (I guess they’re the only people who still listen to it)… the preznit is proud of America for being able to hold an election in wartime.. “Whatever your opinion of the outcome, all Americans can take pride in the example our democracy sets for the world by holding elections even in a time of war.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;WTF?  Has this country EVER cancelled an election due to war?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Never.  We have never cancelled an election during a time of war.  I’m sure Bush thought about it.  A tinge of regret in his voice?  Hell, even during the Civil War, we didn’t cancel the elections.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-383699"><em>Blub @ 115 </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>He.  Wonkette just recapped a quote from the Bush’s last weekly radio address (I guess they’re the only people who still listen to it)… the preznit is proud of America for being able to hold an election in wartime.. “Whatever your opinion of the outcome, all Americans can take pride in the example our democracy sets for the world by holding elections even in a time of war.”</p>
<p>WTF?  Has this country EVER cancelled an election due to war?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Never.  We have never cancelled an election during a time of war.  I’m sure Bush thought about it.  A tinge of regret in his voice?  Hell, even during the Civil War, we didn’t cancel the elections.</p>
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		<title>By: Alice</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-384102</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 01:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-384102</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Forget these Republican plans.  Their only purpose is to save Bush’s reputation, not the country. The democrats need to demand that Bush take full responsibility for the Iraq fiasco, admit there is no good outcome from anyone or any plan and then get out of the way (resign). The grown-ups take over and try to fix the mess as best they can. Bush won’t go, but it will sure sound good when the democrats tell the critics to shut up, stop criticizing and get behind them, after all they are going to be in charge soon.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forget these Republican plans.  Their only purpose is to save Bush’s reputation, not the country. The democrats need to demand that Bush take full responsibility for the Iraq fiasco, admit there is no good outcome from anyone or any plan and then get out of the way (resign). The grown-ups take over and try to fix the mess as best they can. Bush won’t go, but it will sure sound good when the democrats tell the critics to shut up, stop criticizing and get behind them, after all they are going to be in charge soon.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-384100</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 01:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-384100</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So, this attack on Murtha is 26 years old…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Does it hold water or is it as superficial as the Murtha quote about the ethics bill?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have a hard time imagining he would step up to a leadership post if he was really going to have to go through this whole ABSCAM thing again. What’s the deal here?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, this attack on Murtha is 26 years old…</p>
<p>Does it hold water or is it as superficial as the Murtha quote about the ethics bill?</p>
<p>I have a hard time imagining he would step up to a leadership post if he was really going to have to go through this whole ABSCAM thing again. What’s the deal here?</p>
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		<title>By: Lady Bug</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-384019</link>
		<dc:creator>Lady Bug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-384019</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Think of all the hubris, the deaths, the destruction due to Junior’s Oedipus complex. Junior needs his ass kicked hard and sent to bed without supper.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And speaking of a good son - isn’t Jim Webb impressive. The more I hear from and about this man,the more proud I am that me and Webb belong to the same political party.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think of all the hubris, the deaths, the destruction due to Junior’s Oedipus complex. Junior needs his ass kicked hard and sent to bed without supper.</p>
<p>And speaking of a good son &#8211; isn’t Jim Webb impressive. The more I hear from and about this man,the more proud I am that me and Webb belong to the same political party.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Bang Hunter</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-383803</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Bang Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-383803</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;- &lt;b&gt;Abizaid&lt;/b&gt; - &lt;em&gt;“…[We] that are fighting,…. are going to give it until the Iraqi’s either are able to do the job, or show they can’t do it….I give it 6 to 8 months, and then we’ll know…” &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;- Now we know where the Dems got the “Great big fat Greek magic Technicolor Iraq plan”… &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(Bush’s desk….) &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;…Paging Pelosi….Senator Pelosi, you have a call on the House floor curtesy phone….&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>- <b>Abizaid</b> &#8211; <em>“…[We] that are fighting,…. are going to give it until the Iraqi’s either are able to do the job, or show they can’t do it….I give it 6 to 8 months, and then we’ll know…” </em></p>
<p>- Now we know where the Dems got the “Great big fat Greek magic Technicolor Iraq plan”… </p>
<p>(Bush’s desk….) </p>
<p>…Paging Pelosi….Senator Pelosi, you have a call on the House floor curtesy phone….</p>
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		<title>By: kemo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-383757</link>
		<dc:creator>kemo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-383757</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;right, Christy, this is: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hoyer (pro-war/AIPAC/K-street) vs. Murtha (ABSCAM/redeploy OTH).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is a no brainer.  Screw the insiders (both DEM and REP) who are swiftboating Murtha. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The voters decided this last Tuesday, they are tired of the dissembling from folks like Hoyer.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>right, Christy, this is: </p>
<p>Hoyer (pro-war/AIPAC/K-street) vs. Murtha (ABSCAM/redeploy OTH).</p>
<p>This is a no brainer.  Screw the insiders (both DEM and REP) who are swiftboating Murtha. </p>
<p>The voters decided this last Tuesday, they are tired of the dissembling from folks like Hoyer.</p>
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		<title>By: Cujo359</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-383746</link>
		<dc:creator>Cujo359</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-383746</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-383729&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Christy Hardin Smith @ 11:53 am (#128)&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Teddy at 126 — fwiw, Murtha said much the same thing — that members of the legislature shouldn’t need to be told to behave well on the public’s business, but that he supported Pelosi’s reform package because she felt it was important — on a call yesterday.  That said, I’m still wishing there was a much more progressive option, but folks have a choice between Hoyer or Murtha.  And there it is.  Unless a third party throws a late hat in the ring.  Both men go into this race with plenty of baggage, and with up sides as well, and I am just glad that I don’t have to make a decision on the vote for either one of them, frankly.  Politicians are human beings, not saints, no matter how much we might wish it otherwise sometimes.  Ultimately, it will be Pelosi’s agenda that is implemented, and that makes me feel a bit better.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And if the Mike in question is Viguerie, he is a total crap reporter who tends to repeat hit piece remarks that he is spoon-fed, kind of like that Solomon guy from the AP who so agreeably spills out oppo from either side if someone is kind enough to type it up for him.  SIGH&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This has been my reaction: “&lt;em&gt;These&lt;/em&gt; are my choices?”. But these are our choices, and if that’s the choice I think Murtha’s a no-brainer unless there’s something really bad in his closet. He’s Pelosi’s choice and he’ll be a thorn in Bush’s side every time he utters anything remotely like “stay the course” about Iraq.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-383729"><em>Christy Hardin Smith @ 11:53 am (#128)</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Teddy at 126 — fwiw, Murtha said much the same thing — that members of the legislature shouldn’t need to be told to behave well on the public’s business, but that he supported Pelosi’s reform package because she felt it was important — on a call yesterday.  That said, I’m still wishing there was a much more progressive option, but folks have a choice between Hoyer or Murtha.  And there it is.  Unless a third party throws a late hat in the ring.  Both men go into this race with plenty of baggage, and with up sides as well, and I am just glad that I don’t have to make a decision on the vote for either one of them, frankly.  Politicians are human beings, not saints, no matter how much we might wish it otherwise sometimes.  Ultimately, it will be Pelosi’s agenda that is implemented, and that makes me feel a bit better.</p>
<p>And if the Mike in question is Viguerie, he is a total crap reporter who tends to repeat hit piece remarks that he is spoon-fed, kind of like that Solomon guy from the AP who so agreeably spills out oppo from either side if someone is kind enough to type it up for him.  SIGH</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This has been my reaction: “<em>These</em> are my choices?”. But these are our choices, and if that’s the choice I think Murtha’s a no-brainer unless there’s something really bad in his closet. He’s Pelosi’s choice and he’ll be a thorn in Bush’s side every time he utters anything remotely like “stay the course” about Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: Christy Hardin Smith</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-383729</link>
		<dc:creator>Christy Hardin Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-383729</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Teddy at 126 — fwiw, Murtha said much the same thing — that members of the legislature shouldn’t need to be told to behave well on the public’s business, but that he supported Pelosi’s reform package because she felt it was important — on a call yesterday.  That said, I’m still wishing there was a much more progressive option, but folks have a choice between Hoyer or Murtha.  And there it is.  Unless a third party throws a late hat in the ring.  Both men go into this race with plenty of baggage, and with up sides as well, and I am just glad that I don’t have to make a decision on the vote for either one of them, frankly.  Politicians are human beings, not saints, no matter how much we might wish it otherwise sometimes.  Ultimately, it will be Pelosi’s agenda that is implemented, and that makes me feel a bit better.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And if the Mike in question is Viguerie, he is a total crap reporter who tends to repeat hit piece remarks that he is spoon-fed, kind of like that Solomon guy from the AP who so agreeably spills out oppo from either side if someone is kind enough to type it up for him.  SIGH&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teddy at 126 — fwiw, Murtha said much the same thing — that members of the legislature shouldn’t need to be told to behave well on the public’s business, but that he supported Pelosi’s reform package because she felt it was important — on a call yesterday.  That said, I’m still wishing there was a much more progressive option, but folks have a choice between Hoyer or Murtha.  And there it is.  Unless a third party throws a late hat in the ring.  Both men go into this race with plenty of baggage, and with up sides as well, and I am just glad that I don’t have to make a decision on the vote for either one of them, frankly.  Politicians are human beings, not saints, no matter how much we might wish it otherwise sometimes.  Ultimately, it will be Pelosi’s agenda that is implemented, and that makes me feel a bit better.</p>
<p>And if the Mike in question is Viguerie, he is a total crap reporter who tends to repeat hit piece remarks that he is spoon-fed, kind of like that Solomon guy from the AP who so agreeably spills out oppo from either side if someone is kind enough to type it up for him.  SIGH</p>
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		<title>By: Cujo359</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-383728</link>
		<dc:creator>Cujo359</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/15/petulant/#comment-383728</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-383696&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 11:30 am (#112)&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-383685&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Rayne @&lt;br /&gt;
                101              &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Stephen Parrish — agh.  Isn’t this old news, that Abramoff-DeLay tried to obtain favors for the gambling industry (which would naturally be a constituent of the Senator from Nevada), while trying to shore up the wacko base and their votes via Baby-Face Little Ralphie Reed by way anti-gambling messages?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Having just read, albeit hastily, the ABC blog entry by Brian Ross and Rhonda Schwartz for which I provided a link earlier, I think it may be too soon for me to say that it is old news. Since many weeks have elapsed since I have seen any FDL comments about money contributed by Jack Abramoff to Senator Reid, I can’t compare amounts discussed on prior FDL threads with the amount of $ 30,000 appearing in the ABC blog entry.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It was in the $30k range. From a 2005 WaPo article:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Indians’ largess flowed to higher-ranking Democrats as well. Senate Democratic leaders Reid and Daschle each received more than $40,000 from the tribes and from lobbyists on Abramoff’s team during the period.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html&quot;&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....02158.html&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From a Bloomberg article dated Dec. 21, 2005:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Reid spokeswoman Tessa Hafen said the senator is still considering whether to return the $60,000 in donations he received from Abramoff associates and clients. The money includes contributions that came from Abramoff’s former employer, Greenberg Traurig LLP, a lobbying and law firm with multiple issues in Congress.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&amp;sid=aBTFEkGJUbSI&amp;refer=us&quot;&gt;http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....p;refer=us&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That Bloomberg article is one of the few I’ve seen that were careful enough to indicate that this relationship had existed in many cases before Abramoff arrived on the scene.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-383696"><em>Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 11:30 am (#112)</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-383685"><em>Rayne @<br />
                101              </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Stephen Parrish — agh.  Isn’t this old news, that Abramoff-DeLay tried to obtain favors for the gambling industry (which would naturally be a constituent of the Senator from Nevada), while trying to shore up the wacko base and their votes via Baby-Face Little Ralphie Reed by way anti-gambling messages?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Having just read, albeit hastily, the ABC blog entry by Brian Ross and Rhonda Schwartz for which I provided a link earlier, I think it may be too soon for me to say that it is old news. Since many weeks have elapsed since I have seen any FDL comments about money contributed by Jack Abramoff to Senator Reid, I can’t compare amounts discussed on prior FDL threads with the amount of $ 30,000 appearing in the ABC blog entry.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It was in the $30k range. From a 2005 WaPo article:
</p>
<blockquote><p>
The Indians’ largess flowed to higher-ranking Democrats as well. Senate Democratic leaders Reid and Daschle each received more than $40,000 from the tribes and from lobbyists on Abramoff’s team during the period.
</p></blockquote>
<p>
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/&#8230;..02158.html</a></p>
<p>From a Bloomberg article dated Dec. 21, 2005:
</p>
<blockquote><p>
Reid spokeswoman Tessa Hafen said the senator is still considering whether to return the $60,000 in donations he received from Abramoff associates and clients. The money includes contributions that came from Abramoff’s former employer, Greenberg Traurig LLP, a lobbying and law firm with multiple issues in Congress.
</p></blockquote>
<p>
<a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&amp;sid=aBTFEkGJUbSI&amp;refer=us">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/&#8230;..p;refer=us</a></p>
<p>That Bloomberg article is one of the few I’ve seen that were careful enough to indicate that this relationship had existed in many cases before Abramoff arrived on the scene.</p>
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