Let’s turn Ohio Blue again!

Peanut !

Howie Klein!

Good, Fredo will have 2 ineffective plans to choose from. I think he would like to crack Jim Baker (and his dad) in the head with a Jack Daniels bottle right now. After he’d drank it dry of course.

Don’t be too hard on Bush, Christy. See, he’s wearing a blue tie as a sign of bipartisanship. Whata guy!

/snark

One Abizaid equals four to six months.

Watching the hearing on Iraq/Afghanistan now.

we are so, so, so in trouble.

Afghanistan and Iraq are much more in trouble than we are ;(

Abizaid just admitted that ethnic cleansing is occurring in Iraq.

(hardly a word has been said about Afghanistan, though ;( )

Atrios needs to publish a Friedman conversion table

Amidst all the talkl about Poppy’s men coming in to clean up W. mess I have to wonder whether W ever asked for them or whether Poppy has forced them on his son. In other words, does GW have any intention of listening to the Baker commission’s recommendations or plans to blow them off as they have every other criticism of the Iraqi War. If the WH is putting together it’s own study group then we can conclude that Baker is wasting his time because GW ha no intention of listening advice to Baker or anyone from outside their circle.

We’re not going to win, no matter what we do now. Best thing to do is say, ‘we broke it, we have no idea how to fix it, we want out as fast as we can, and BTW, here’s the addresses of the guys who non-planned and initiated this war, we’ll stand back while you collect them’. (Not that I expect anyone who currently has any power to do that. And I doubt that the incoming DSCC/DLC folks will do it either.)

There’s a post of a similar nature up today at ‘Making Light’.

Sessions says we need more prisons in Iraq so the Sunnis who arrest Shias will have a place to put them.

An Iraq Study Group? Isn’t it a little frackin’ late to be studying for this test?

“We gots just as many ejumacated people in the White House as that there commission, so we oughta be able to come up with our own ideas.”

Nelson says there has been too much lying before the committee so far. He wants to trust Abizaid, but…

Two competing Republican Iraq plans?

So much for that “Democrats are divided” talking point.

The White House review could give the administration alternatives so that it feels less pressure to fully implement the recommendations of the Iraq Study Group report, foreign policy experts said.

Note of caution:

Remember, both reports have actually very little to do with Iraq or Afghanistan, per se. They’re about securing the Bush family legacy, ensuring the financial gravy train for contractors and big oil, and pulling Shrub’s ass out of the fire so that the ‘08 elections aren’t a total disaster for the GOP. In that order.

Gee, I’m quite the cynic today.

Bob @ 9. My hunch is that this is very unwelcome help and that he will say he is listening then DO exactly what he wants to do (which is his pattern with damn near everything = textbook alcoholic not in recovery behavior. Dude is a Dry Drunk. Its that simple)

Abizaid: We need to secure the capitol, fuck the rest of the country. We need more troops, Iraqui troops. Want the government to get behind the army.

Nothing about how the army needs to get behind the government, which is the key.

Petula(nt) Clerk

This rehabilitation of Brand Bush is their last best hope for BushGenX and (horrors) Jeb!. While I wish the B/H-ISG the very best of solution-finding, there are some points to make:

1. B/H-ISG is a creation of Congress, and Congresscritters should be credited with it. I don’t mind puffing up John Warner’s reputation around this, and I doubt he would either. Likely he won’t run again in Virginia in 2008. B/H-ISQ is his legacy, not W’s.

2. The USA cannot afford another Brand Bush Blunder on this world-rocking catastrophic scale. If JB3 has to fix everything a Bush screws up, let’s remind our fellow Americans that JB3 is 76 years old and won’t be around to fix the next Bush Blunder, whichever Bush wreaks it. When the Bush FixitMan retires or shuffles off this mortal coil, no more Brand Bush, please!

3. Let’s give lots some more visibility to the patriotic Democrats who serve on B/H-ISG:
Vernon Jordan, Jr., business executive
Leon E. Panetta, former White House Chief of Staff
William J. Perry, former US Secretary of Defense
Charles S. Robb, former Governor of Virginia and former U.S. Senator

4. While I am unwilling to make W’s War Folly a “bipartisan error,” let’s try out this meme: W Needed Democrats to Find His Way Outta Iraq.

5. Or this one: The GOP Couldn’t Get the USA Outta Iraq, but Democrats Could.

6. Finally, I’m gonna call the minority party The Republic Party, and its members Republics, just to piss them all off. It’s a dig for their attempt to rename our party, and a subtle reminder that they used to be the Party of Lincoln, the Preznit who saved the Republic from the Rebels. Since they are the party of only Rebels and wannabe Rebels now, it shows the stark contrast between their party’s roots and its current loneliness. Which, incidentally, was pretty much the motive behind their changing our party’s name.

Anyone else on board for that?

=======
Who’s Next?
=======

Abizaid– we can’t have a major effort everywhere.

omg.

McCain asks how do you say we have enough troops and also that the provinces are not under control?

McCain is pissed. He wants to send more troops. Abizaid not agreeing.

McCain says I’m hearing things are really bad, don’t like your happy talk.

jeffreyw @ 22

McCain asks how do you say we have enough troops and also that the provinces are not under control?

McCain is as moron. The man learned NOTHING from Vietnam (Except how exploit being captured). This is Anthropology 101 stuff. You can’t impose a culture on another culture. There is NO military solution in Iraq. The more this guy talks them more he kills his Presidential potential. Too bad he is getting our troops killed in the process.

Watch bush and Gates redefine winning into pulling back to safe areas (or relativly safe areas) and trying not to get shot for two years. Imaginary Bench Marks will be picked that can easily be met (not that anyone cares anymore) but they will be used to justify our presence there. bush needs to meet a bench march every few months just so he can claim that he is winning. Just how many people have to die for one man’s pride? Holy Joe I hope you know that after this war Israel will live in a neighborhood with an Atomic Iran and since Iran has the bomb ALL THE OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES WILL DEMAND ONE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM IRAN! Yes Joe you set this into motion, a fool with good intentions and power will always succeed in destroying what ever he cares about most!

Nothing will change. They’ver replaced the Rove as genuis theme with Jim Baker as genius theme, although I guess with Baker it is more magician/fixer than “genius,” the point still applies.

There is no good way out of Iraq that also saves Chimpy’s (and the Bush family’s) legacy. Doesn’t exist; that “fix” doesn’t exist, for Baker or anyone else.

It is just an attempt at political cover and there will be no change to any Chimpco Iraq policy. It’s bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. What was that last word? Bullshit. It will also fail as politcal cover for Chimpco and repugs in general, but that is what it is.

Lemons to lemonade? No: shit to shitade. And shitade still tastes like shit.

Chimpy and those around him will never change. I’ve stated why in the past, and what I wrote still applies.

Regret to hear your happy, general.

I’m not all that happy. It’s hard work. The Iraqis have to do it. We don’t have the troops, dumbass.

Another Connecticut Decision from the AP:

A painfully thin lead for Democrat Joe Courtney on election night last week shriveled to an even narrower victory following a recount in all 65 towns in Connecticut’s 2nd Congressional District.

With the roller-coaster recount that uncovered vote-counting flaws in several towns, Courtney eked out a 91-vote victory over three-term Republican Rep. Rob Simmons, according to results tabulated by 65 town clerks and reported to The Associated Press.

EPU is right. Bush CAN’T change. He’ll undermine anything he agrees too that he really doesn’t agree too. This is WHAT HE DOES.

He already said Iraq would be up to future Presidents to figure out. He is a liar but he does tell the truth sometimes and this is one time he is telling the truth. Nothing really changes till this moron is removed from office.

TeddySanFran @ 20

This rehabilitation of Brand Bush is their last best hope for BushGenX and (horrors) Jeb!. While I wish the B/H-ISG the very best of solution-finding, there are some points to make:

4. While I am unwilling to make W’s War Folly a “bipartisan error,” let’s try out this meme: W Needed Democrats to Find His Way Outta Iraq.

5. Or this one: The GOP Couldn’t Get the USA Outta Iraq, but Democrats Could.

6. Finally, I’m gonna call the minority party The Republic Party, and its members Republics, just to piss them all off. It’s a dig for their attempt to rename our party, and a subtle reminder that they used to be the Party of Lincoln, the Preznit who saved the Republic from the Rebels. Since they are the party of only Rebels and wannabe Rebels now, it shows the stark contrast between their party’s roots and its current loneliness. Which, incidentally, was pretty much the motive behind their changing our party’s name.

Anyone else on board for that?

=======
Who’s Next?
=======

Hi Teddy! I’m on board for all but #6 (and I love 4 and 5).

“Republic” has such strong affirmative associations (despite the GOP) – I hope progressives will use this powerful word in other ways.

For me, the Republic is what the GOP seeks to destroy in their war on the Constitution.

Hey, let’s pull all those troops out of South Korea. Oh wait…

in that picture, he looks like Preznit Pouty-Pout Poopy-Pants!

State of Denial, Fiasco brought to the table. Heh.

General have you been toeing the party line or have you been blowing smoke?

Honest truth, Senator Dayton.

Funny you say that, what about this, and this, and this, etc?

I haven’t read the books, so I can’t comment.

No doubt the preznit’s (second) Iraq Study Group will come back with a recommendation to invade Iran :p

beb says:
November 15th, 2006 at 9:42 am *

Amidst all the talk about Poppy’s men coming in to clean up W. mess I have to wonder whether W ever asked for them or whether Poppy has forced them on his son.

Judging by below information they were forced on him.
Am I behind the times with the Wonkette piece about Baker telling Bush everybody hates him and to tell Cheney to STFU?

http://www.wonkette.com/politi…..214749.php

1) Baker informed Junior bush First of all – “EVERYBODY HATES YOU.” . . . Baker – “The people HATE YOU.”
Headline is crazy web site pretty much proved true by Newsweek cover.

The ninja pretzel needs to give Chimpy another visit.

Dayton: I don’t question your desire to win, but why have you been spouting WH line rather than the truth? Even when you disagreed with the WH you still said they were right.

Abizaid: Suck it.

jeffreyw @ 37

Dayton: I don’t question your desire to win, but why have you been spouting WH line rather than the truth? Even when you disagreed with the WH you still said they were right.

Abizaid: Suck it.

Is Ted Nugent testifying?

I have to agree, Iraq is F.U.B.A.R. .

I also have to agree , Stupie and Co. are doing their damndest to try and cover their collective asses.
Unfortunately for them,even Omar the tent maker, wouldn’t have enough material to cover all the asses hanging out on this one.
Troop withdrawl is unrealistic as they leave our troops asses exposed as numbers go down.
Over the horizon re-deployment might be our best hope, as negotiating a cease fire looks to be nigh impossible.

Yep, Stupie f*cked up this one big.

“When in doubt, I just whip it out, got me a rock and roll band it’s a free-for-all!”

Collins: Why no more elections? Fall of 2007

Satterfield: They had elections already. May be some more in a bit, sure hope so.

OT–
Besides Jim Webb’s fantabulous op ed in the WSJ this morning, I found this article also well worth the read!

All over Washington, the sage barons of the establishment media are warning Democrats not to get cocky. Don’t move too fast, they say. Don’t push a bunch of wacky, left-wing ideas. Seek compromise, give ground, hew to the center, for only there lies the greatest prize of all: the praise of David Broder and Joe Klein, the nodding approval of the Washington Post editorial page, the admiration the Beltway cognoscenti reserve for those who know their place and know whose rings they should be kissing.

Bull. What Democrats need to do is spend the next two years crushing their opponents like bugs. It’s not about mercy, it’s not about manners, it’s about three fundamental goals: limiting the damage the Bush administration can do, passing whatever legislation they can in the short term to help the American public and laying the foundation for future progressive victories.

Democrats finally have the upper hand, and now’s the time to use it. Here are a few things they can do to get started.

the plan here:

http://www.tompaine.com/articl…..mp_out.php

Way O/T – Jim Webb gives Wall Street the 411 on what’s really going on with the economy:

November 15, 2006

Wall Street Journal

COMMENTARY

American Workers
Have a Chance
To Be Heard
By JIM WEBB
November 15, 2006; Page A18

The most important — and unfortunately the least debated — issue in politics today is our society’s steady drift toward a class-based system, the likes of which we have not seen since the 19th century. America’s top tier has grown infinitely richer and more removed over the past 25 years. It is not unfair to say that they are literally living in a different country. Few among them send their children to public schools; fewer still send their loved ones to fight our wars. They own most of our stocks, making the stock market an unreliable indicator of the economic health of working people. The top 1% now takes in an astounding 16% of national income, up from 8% in 1980. The tax codes protect them, just as they protect corporate America, through a vast system of loopholes.

Incestuous corporate boards regularly approve compensation packages for chief executives and others that are out of logic’s range. As this newspaper has reported, the average CEO of a sizeable corporation makes more than $10 million a year, while the minimum wage for workers amounts to about $10,000 a year, and has not been raised in nearly a decade. When I graduated from college in the 1960s, the average CEO made 20 times what the average worker made. Today, that CEO makes 400 times as much.

In the age of globalization and outsourcing, and with a vast underground labor pool from illegal immigration, the average American worker is seeing a different life and a troubling future. Trickle-down economics didn’t happen. Despite the vaunted all-time highs of the stock market, wages and salaries are at all-time lows as a percentage of the national wealth. At the same time, medical costs have risen 73% in the last six years alone. Half of that increase comes from wage-earners’ pockets rather than from insurance, and 47 million Americans have no medical insurance at all.

Manufacturing jobs are disappearing. Many earned pension programs have collapsed in the wake of corporate “reorganization.” And workers’ ability to negotiate their futures has been eviscerated by the twin threats of modern corporate America: If they complain too loudly, their jobs might either be outsourced overseas or given to illegal immigrants.

This ever-widening divide is too often ignored or downplayed by its beneficiaries. A sense of entitlement has set in among elites, bordering on hubris. When I raised this issue with corporate leaders during the recent political campaign, I was met repeatedly with denials, and, from some, an overt lack of concern for those who are falling behind. A troubling arrogance is in the air among the nation’s most fortunate. Some shrug off large-scale economic and social dislocations as the inevitable byproducts of the “rough road of capitalism.” Others claim that it’s the fault of the worker or the public education system, that the average American is simply not up to the international challenge, that our education system fails us, or that our workers have become spoiled by old notions of corporate paternalism.

Still others have gone so far as to argue that these divisions are the natural results of a competitive society. Furthermore, an unspoken insinuation seems to be inundating our national debate: Certain immigrant groups have the “right genetics” and thus are natural entrants to the “overclass,” while others, as well as those who come from stock that has been here for 200 years and have not made it to the top, simply don’t possess the necessary attributes.

Most Americans reject such notions. But the true challenge is for everyone to understand that the current economic divisions in society are harmful to our future. It should be the first order of business for the new Congress to begin addressing these divisions, and to work to bring true fairness back to economic life. Workers already understand this, as they see stagnant wages and disappearing jobs.

America’s elites need to understand this reality in terms of their own self-interest. A recent survey in the Economist warned that globalization was affecting the U.S. differently than other “First World” nations, and that white-collar jobs were in as much danger as the blue-collar positions which have thus far been ravaged by outsourcing and illegal immigration. That survey then warned that “unless a solution is found to sluggish real wages and rising inequality, there is a serious risk of a protectionist backlash” in America that would take us away from what they view to be the “biggest economic stimulus in world history.”

More troubling is this: If it remains unchecked, this bifurcation of opportunities and advantages along class lines has the potential to bring a period of political unrest. Up to now, most American workers have simply been worried about their job prospects. Once they understand that there are (and were) clear alternatives to the policies that have dislocated careers and altered futures, they will demand more accountability from the leaders who have failed to protect their interests. The “Wal-Marting” of cheap consumer products brought in from places like China, and the easy money from low-interest home mortgage refinancing, have softened the blows in recent years. But the balance point is tipping in both cases, away from the consumer and away from our national interest.

The politics of the Karl Rove era were designed to distract and divide the very people who would ordinarily be rebelling against the deterioration of their way of life. Working Americans have been repeatedly seduced at the polls by emotional issues such as the predictable mantra of “God, guns, gays, abortion and the flag” while their way of life shifted ineluctably beneath their feet. But this election cycle showed an electorate that intends to hold government leaders accountable for allowing every American a fair opportunity to succeed.

With this new Congress, and heading into an important presidential election in 2008, American workers have a chance to be heard in ways that have eluded them for more than a decade. Nothing is more important for the health of our society than to grant them the validity of their concerns. And our government leaders have no greater duty than to confront the growing unfairness in this age of globalization.

Mr. Webb is the Democratic senator-elect from Virginia.

Collins: Timetable for Iraqis operating without our help?

Abizaid: They need trucks and tanks to do that shit. Which side do you want to give them to?

Lieberfuck: Listen to me! Bipartisan! Lots of options to pick from. If we told you to leave pretty soon, what would happen?

Abizaid: Deep doo doo.

I am opposed to the President’s policy initiatives.

Abizaid: Keep what we have, wave wand, voila!

Satterfield: Unhelpful to leave soon.

Leibersucker: You don’t think we should leave soon?

Satterfield: Deep shit if we do.

Lieberdick: I agree, not withstanding what I told the CT voters.

Lieberman is obviously the star pitcher in the Bush Leaague softball team.

Joe, STFU!

Lieber___: Whoops, I’m out of time.

jeffreyw @ 50

Lieber___: Whoops, I’m out of time.

Yeah, back in August. And yet, here he is…

Thune: Just how fucking soon can we get the fucking fuck out?

Abizaid: Let me pull a number out of my ass.

Thune: Works for me. Never mind. How come the ministers of the Iraqi government don’t get along?

Abizaid: They don’t like us there because were holding them back.

Thune: Can Jordan or other countries help us out?

Abizaid: Heh, we wish. But, sadly, no.

On April 7, 2006, the ISG said in a letter to Congress,

“we will work expeditiously, and anticipate reporting to the Congress, the President, and the American people within a year.”

http://www.usip.org/isg/letter_congress.html

In their Fact Sheet, this changed to:

“sometime after the November 7 U.S. elections. The ISG is working expeditiously to complete its report.”

I haven’t been able to track down an exact citation but it is my recollection that the release of the ISG report was to be sometime in January.

That has changed:

“The study group expects to have a report completed by the end of the year.”

http://www.usip.org/isg/news_r…..eting.html

It appears the timetable for the release of the Iraq Study Group’s report has been accelerated. With Rumsfeld’s resignation and Bush’s repeated references to the ISG in the news conference where this was announced, the ISG may want to get its report out sooner rather than later for maximum impact. Or there may be the realization that conditions on the ground in Iraq are changing so quickly for the worse that waiting another month could make their report irrelevant.

‘A petulant…frenzy! (thump) This is a petulant…(thud) frenzy! I’m petulant! …And I’m having a frenzy!‘ (rimshot)

Self-protecting ex-presidents, pornography connoisseurs, pardoned malefactors, coverup specialists and corporatist toadies…All with one overweaning goal in mind…

Save the Bush!

‘We’ve got to protect our phony baloney jobs, gentlemen. We must do something about this, immediately, immediately, immediately!”

Harumph

;>)

Nelson: How can we help them when we don’t understand them or their culture? What about goals? Can you give me an idea of what we are doing?

Satterfield: We need to fix the capitol, then establish a society where there is a rule of law. Get the factions to sing kumbaya.

Might be a while, we think.

With General Abizaid, it is important to remember that he has presided over the deteriorating situations in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He has no credibility whatsoever. He is Rumsfeld’s man in uniform and Rumsfeld would never have kept him on if he hadn’t been. Expect no insight or call for change from him. He survived because he is very much a “stay the course” kind of guy. He is part of the problem, not the solution.

Cornyn: We’ve been training these folks for four years, how much longer is it gonna take?

Abizaid: When they have a government to fight for.

Cornyn: Uh, what was that?

Satterfield: When they have a government to fight for, Dumbass.

1,334 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Firepup Patriots:

OT but VERY important, has anybody out there seen Josh M’s bit over at TPM about the battle for control of the Democratic caucus in the House? It sounds like Rahm is at least winnin’ the media fight…this guy is lookin’ more and more like Mrs. Clinton’s Karl Rove every day. I have hollered about this here before but I think that unless Pelosi ken get to the new session with Murtha as floor leader so that most a the day-to-day direction ken be set by the committee chairs, then the Democrats are fucked and Rahm is gunna lead the ‘08 Clinton campaign and the Party off the cliff.

Anyone got any current gossip about where the House leader fight stands?

KEEP THE FAITH, AND WATCH THE BATTLES THAT WE CAN’T FIGHT!!

jeffreyw –

Thanks so much for your transcriptions. They are LOL funny —- & make hearing the real version just a wee bit easier.

Per 44 – I wonder what this is going to do to the “Webb is a conservative” meme they were trying to sell.

Continuing his Boy King behavior

from now on to be known as “the boiking”, emphasis on the first syllable.

O/T. But I’m going to channel my inner Duncan Black to answer some of Froomkin’s questions.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00879.html

Is Bush’s credibility problem going to become a bigger issue? Will an emboldened Washington press corps more aggressively challenge the accuracy of White House statements? Now that the Washington echo chamber is at least partly owned by the opposition, will the credibility issue start to resonate?

No.

And Democrats give Lieberman a Standing Ovation
and
there’s more at the Hartford Courant

Tuesday, November 14, 2006
Senate Democrats give Lieberman standing ovation
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman, who bolted the Democratic party after losing a primary election this year to run as an independent, won a standing ovation at a closed meeting of all Senate Democrats Tuesday.

Lieberman was introduced by Democratic Leader Harry Reid who, according to Lieberman, told his colleagues that, “families go through crisis but we survived and I just want to welcome back Joe Lieberman.”

“It’s been a helluva year,” Lieberman told the group before imploring them to heed the lessons of the midterm election and “be willing to compromise” with Republicans.

Lieberman, who now calls himself an “Independent Democrat,” was asked if the warm reception helped remove lingering bitterness from the campaign when many of his closest Democratic allies supported his opponent Ned Lamont.

There’s more at the links above. (Sigh)

Check this out.

A thank you letter from Chuck Schumer to DailyKos.

That was big no matter how you slice it.

or ‘king Bush, short for fucking Bush.

Also I posted in the Captain Renault thread yesterday, brief bios of all the members of the ISG working groups, the experts who are doing most of the work and will essentially write the report. I wanted to convey some idea of where these people are coming from.

Since TeddySanFran mentioned them above, here are short bios on the Democratic members of the ISG overseeing the working groups. The point here is that none of these guys is really progressive. 3 are tied to Clinton, a link that is often overlooked when people talk about the ISG as a puppet organization of Bush I.

The Democrats:

Lee Hamilton, Democratic Representative from Indiana for 34 years, served on Foreign Affairs and Intelligence Committees, vice chairman of the 911 Commission, and director of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. From wiki, “As chair of the Select Committee to Investigate Covert Arms Transactions with Iran (Iran-Contra), Hamilton chose not to investigate President Ronald Reagan or President George H. W. Bush, stating that he did not think it would be “good for the country” to put the public through another impeachment trial.” He worked with James Baker previously when he co-chaired the Baker-Hamilton Commission to Investigate Certain Security Issues at Los Alamos.

Vernon Jordan, Jr., Washington power broker and advisor to the Clintons, Senior Managing Director with Lazard Freres & Co. LLC an investment banking firm, no foreign policy experience.

Leon Panetta, White House Chief of Staff to Bill Clinton 1994-1997, domestic, civil rights, and budget experience, no foreign policy experience.

William Perry, Secretary of Defense under Bill Clinton 1994-1997, came up through the defense industry and Pentagon, broad foreign policy and defense experience. Helped enforce the policy of containment in Iraq.

Chuck Robb, mostly conservative Democratic Senator from Virgina 1989-2001 (lost to George Allen), served on the Armed Services, Foreign Relations, and Intelligence Committees, Chairman of the Iraq Intelligence Commission set up by Bush in 2004. This Commission found that the intelligence community was wrong about everything to do with Iraq but that there had been no political pressure on the intelligence community to modify its assessments.

If I had to guess I would say everyone on the ISG panel and almost everyone in the working groups is to the right of most of the American people on Iraq.

one thing we have to be sure of Christie;

we have to make sure the president takes complete responsibility, making CERTAIN he is making these changes BECAUSE his policies are taking us in the wrong direction.

this way, if things continue on their current course, he will NOT be able to say it’s because he abandoned his previous plan due to democratic control

we HAVE to present a win win situation for the democrats, if the new policies are successfull, it will be ENTIRELY because of the democrats, if they fail, the failure will be ENTIRELY because of the administration and the previous republican rubber stampers giving the boiking what he wanted

Oh no! Hill brings up partitioning the devastated country of Iraq.

Satterfield– there will be blood everywhere, unacceptable!

So there Biden and Clinton.

Not an option and not moral acc. to Satterfield.

Balrog @
64

Check this out.

A thank you letter from Chuck Schumer to DailyKos.

That was big no matter how you slice it.

Sorry, old news.

bob3 @ 60

Per 44 – I wonder what this is going to do to the “Webb is a conservative” meme they were trying to sell.

Tears it all to hell. I’ve had doubts about Webb other than his stand on Iraq, but that’s one hell of a statement.

Junior fucks up so badly that Poppy has to send in Harvey Keitel to clean up the bloodstains. Why are we still paying these idiots?

HRC: Hope is not a stratagery. Give me a break, this shit is not working, when are you gonna get real? We’re fucked if we stay, fucked if we don’t. What’s your favorite position? What about a partition?

Satterfield: Partition would really suck, not gonna go for that. Few in Iraq want that, nor the other countries in the area, we still have hope the Iraqis can do it with our help, thank you.

Abizaid: Bad idea, partition, despair is not a method. Our folks do not despair. Heh. Hard lessons, we have learned. In one Abizaid we think we will have some progress, if every thing goes well.

MS @ 63

Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman, who bolted the Democratic party after losing a primary election this year to run as an independent, won a standing ovation at a closed meeting of all Senate Democrats Tuesday.

I agree that pretty much says it all. The Senate Democrats may be less criminal than their Republican counterparts but they are DINOs to the core. They are more interested in the maintenance of their clubbish atmosphere than in those unkempt and poorly mannered plebians some call constituents.

we have to make sure the president takes complete responsibility, making CERTAIN he is making these changes BECAUSE his policies are taking us in the wrong direction.

I agree. And that is one reason I’ve never liked (or agreed with) the Chimpy as Cheney’s puppet theme. They’re all responsible for all their failures, with Chimpy at the top. As if Rumsfeld alone was the cause of failure in Iraq (and elsewhere in the military) and now that he’s gone everything will be swell. It is short-sighted and, although I don’t believe the public buys into it (as the election results show), we shouldn’t be buying into an attempt to scapegoat others equally responsible.

Chimpy is a moron, but that does not absolve him, or anyone else, of responsibility for their moronic acts.

Has this been posted here? If not, here is the Iraq study group.

James Baker – US Secretary of State, 1989-92
James F. Dobbins – US Ambassador to the EU, 1991-93
Charles W. Freeman, Jr. – US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, 1989-92
Lawrence Eagleburger – Secretary of State, 1992-1993 (taking Robert M. Gates, nominee for SecDef)
Lee H. Hamilton – 9-11 Commission vice chairman
Vernon Jordan – Advisor to Bill Clinton
Ed Meese – Attorney General under Reagan, 1985-88
Sandra Day O’Connor – US Supreme Court Justice, 1981-2006
Leon Panetta – Bill Clinton’s Chief of Staff, 1994-96
William J. Perry – US Secretary of Defense, 1994-97
Chuck Robb – US Senator from Virginia, 1989-2001
Alan Simpson – US Senator from Wyoming, 1979-1997

Jebus if this is the best we can do to get us out of Iraq..we are really screwed

TeddySanFran @ 20

[snip]
6. Finally, I’m gonna call the minority party The Republic Party, and its members Republics, just to piss them all off. It’s a dig for their attempt to rename our party, and a subtle reminder that they used to be the Party of Lincoln, the Preznit who saved the Republic from the Rebels. Since they are the party of only Rebels and wannabe Rebels now, it shows the stark contrast between their party’s roots and its current loneliness. Which, incidentally, was pretty much the motive behind their changing our party’s name.

Anyone else on board for that?

=======
Who’s Next?
=======

TeddySanFran -
That’s what I’ve been calling the twits for about one Friedman now.

Same old, same old. Bush’s review has nothing to do with policy, but is simply the old, tired, and now inoperative technique of muddying the waters by throwing up (literally) a so-called alternative to confuse public opinion. In the days –no long past — when Bush had a reserve of good will and confidence to draw on, this technique worked. The problem this time is that the Insurgents and the Shi’a are not at all confused, nor are the Iranians. He can call as many meetings as he wants. Come January 1, 2007, or shortly after, the mortality mark for US troops in Iraq will go over 3,000. Nobody, not even Jim Baker, can spin that.

This seems to be Rove’s last grasp at the straw.

jeffreyw 52 –

OMFG. You are slaying me, dude!!

Bwa-hahahaha!!

I just wish you weren’t so damned accurate! Tell me, have you thought of drafting a Get-Your-War-Own-type ‘toon? I think you have a month’s worth of material here.

Teddy: Cut and run gets blown off as treason. Isn’t what happening to our armed forces just as bad? Benchmarks by Maliki with time lines, why is his time line OK, our time line such a bad idea? And what kind of progress is it when 150 are snatched from our midst?

Satterfield: Not gonna trap me with such an easy question to evade. It’s hard, not helpful.

Abizaid: Yeah the mass kidnapping was a black eye, but hey! this is Iraq, what did you think it was gonna be easy? We closed the barn door, that we could do that is encouraging.

I said I was looking for a specific reference about a January release of the ISG report now slated for sometime in December.

October 10, 2006

“Baker said Sunday he would like “to take this thing out of politics” by delaying the release of the commission’s recommendations until after the elections, and possibly until a new Congress takes office in January.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00135.html

Abizaid: Bad idea, partition, despair is not a method. Our folks do not despair. Heh. Hard lessons, we have learned. In one Abizaid we think we will have some progress, if every thing goes well.

That’s because we’ve given our troops about as much material to build despair as we have extra armor for their Humvees.

Oh, wait, we outsourced despair. Who’s got the DoD contract on despair, people?

ok i just have to say this, i am soooo tired of all the wise old sages whose forcast for our invasion of iraq was all sunshine and rainbows blathering on about how if we leave now it will be “chaos, chaos i say”. um, sorry dumbass, but you have no credibility. based on the fact that they were 100% WRONG the first time around shoudln’t it follow that if they are predicting doom, then the actual result of our redeployment would be a massive IMPROVEMENT in the situation?

i’m sure the reason the isg and the white house are suddenly on the fast-track to produce their reccomendations BEFORE the end of the year is so that the adminstration can claim credit for any new direction in iraq and deny the dems the joy of forcing their hand once the new congress is sworn in after the first of the year.

“…into an attempt to scapegoat when others are equally responsible.”

That’s better.

Talent: Give me some hope here, general, I’m a bit down.

Abizaid: There, there, it’ll be OK

Talent: Thanks, da, er, general. I needed that.

Hugh @ 79

I said I was looking for a specific reference about a January release of the ISG report now slated for sometime in December.

October 10, 2006

“Baker said Sunday he would like “to take this thing out of politics” by delaying the release of the commission’s recommendations until after the elections, and possibly until a new Congress takes office in January.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00135.html

“War is a continuation of politics by other means.” Carl von Clausewitz

Rayne @ 79

Abizaid: Bad idea, partition, despair is not a method. Our folks do not despair. Heh. Hard lessons, we have learned. In one Abizaid we think we will have some progress, if every thing goes well.

That’s because we’ve given our troops about as much material to build despair as we have extra armor for their Humvees.

Oh, wait, we outsourced despair. Who’s got the DoD contract on despair, people?

I think Ed’s does. (kidding)

Steve 75,

I posted bios of the Democratic members above. Again this is the panel of gray haired sages with gravitas. Only a couple have any experience with the Middle East. Those are found in the 4 working groups. Again I posted the connections of those people last night in the Captain Renault thread.

Here by the way are the Republican panel members from a comment I posted a few days ago:

The Republicans:

James Baker III, longtime Bush family friend, consigliere, and fixer, WH Chief of Staff to Ronald Reagan 1981-1984, Secretary of the Treasury 1985-1988, National Security Council, Secretary of State 1989-1992, WH Chief of Staff to Bush I 1992 to end of term. In 1993, founded the James Baker III Institute of Public Policy at Rice University, chief legal adviser to Bush II during the 2000 Florida recount. His presence and guiding role behind the Iraq Study Group is seen as an intervention of Bush I and his advisors to salvage Bush II’s Presidency and Bush I’s legacy.

Sandra Day O’Connor, Reagan appointee to the Supreme Court 1981-2006, swing vote in the Rehnquist court, no foreign policy experience

Robert Gates replaced by Lawrence Eagleburger (Nov.10, 2006), National Security Council staff 1974-1979, CIA careerist, nominated to be the Agency’s head in 1987 but withdrew because of his involvement in Iran-Contra, renominated and confirmed he served as DCI 1991-1993, became President of Texas A&M in 2002, nominated by Bush II to be Secretary of Defense on Nov. 8, 2006.
*Lawrence Eagleburger, assistant to Henry Kissinger when he was National Security Adivisor 1969-1971, Acting Secretary of State to GHW Bush replacing James Baker 1992.

Edwin Meese III replaced Rudolph Giuliani (resigned May 24, 2006 because he didn’t have the time), National Security Council 1981-1985, Attorney General 1985-1988 under Ronald Reagan, was involved in Iran-Contra mostly in covering up Reagan’s role in it, helped develop the conservative constitutional view of “original intent”, aside from his time on the NSC no foreign policy experience.

Alan K. Simpson, Senator from Wyoming 1979 to 1997, Republican Whip 1985-1995, no foreign policy experience.

When you look at the 10 ISG principals, you will notice there are no neocons included, although there are a few in the working groups. 5 (Jordan, Panetta, O’Connor, Simpson, and Meese) have little or no foreign policy experience. All of the Republicans after Giuliani’s departure and before Eagleburger’s arrival were Westerners. All of them also had connections to either Reagan or Bush I’s Administration (Baker, Meese, and Gates, in particular). What is probably less known is that 3 of the 5 Democrats (Jordan, Panetta, and Perry) had close links with the Clinton Administration. In other words, the Iraq Study Group is not just a Bush I vehicle but reflects a considerable input from Clinton. Remember all of the pal-ing around between Bush Sr. and Bill? Well, this appears another instance of it.

Twisted Martini — oh no, Ed’s used to have the contract on despair when Big Dick Brown was CEO; I swear it felt like Ed’s was the sole source provider, what with working 80 hour weeks and getting chicken feed for pay.

But I suspect it’s all been shopped out to Halliburton and KBR and Blackwater now.

Akaka: Why don’t we get the Iraqis to do their job?

Satterfield: Good idea, thanks for pointing that out. We will look into that so that they don’t become dependent upon us. We will take their training wheels off soon, maybe in one Abizaid.

jeffreyw @ 88

Akaka: Why don’t we get the Iraqis to do their job?

Satterfield: Good idea, thanks for pointing that out. We will look into that so that they don’t become dependent upon us. We will take their training wheels off soon, maybe in one Abizaid.

707

perris, formerly known as me to me, @ 61

Continuing his Boy King behavior

from now on to be known as “the boiking”, emphasis on the first syllable.

Yeah, “Clusterfuck” was getting a little tired. ;-)

Breaking news from ABC: SOURCES TELL ABC NEWS SENATOR HARRY REID IS IMPLICATED IN ABRAMOFF LOBBYING INVESTIGATION

For more details, please click on this link:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl…..ort_1.html

Akaka: What’s your plan to do this?

Abizaid: We will help to stabilize the country.

Bayh: This whole central front on terrorism, kinda stupid, isn’t it. I mean for us? Al Queda, yeah, I can see why they think so. Why help them out like what we’re doing?

Abizaid: Fight them there, yada yada yada.

Bayh: Aren’t the Iraqis kinda the problem here, I mean I have no confidence they mean to do the right thing.

Satterfield: Right you are, but we think we have a window to turn their shit around.

Bayh: Not a good answer, give me another one.

Satterfield: We’re gonna work harder.

Abizaid: The Iraqis can do it but it’s hard. We need to stick with them for a while yet, see my previous comment.

1 Abizaid = 2 Friedmans = 3 terminated truthful Cabinet or senior administration officials = 4 turns of Cheney’s corner = 5 purple thumbs

And a partridge full of buckshot in a Humvee.

ruh-roh, Stephen Parrish!

jeffreyw, thanks for the live blogging-though I would have loved to see Thune say, “Just how fucking soon can we get the fucking fuck out?”

ROTFLMAO

Gotta go cook a rack of lamb.

Thanks for your attention, I’ll be back later.

Try the veal, the lamb is iffy.

D’oh!! That wasn’t a partridge, it was Harry!!

an orriginal billmon to good not to share

thanks jeffreyw!

you made the tragedy bearable and funny!

Stephen Parrish — agh. Isn’t this old news, that Abramoff-DeLay tried to obtain favors for the gambling industry (which would naturally be a constituent of the Senator from Nevada), while trying to shore up the wacko base and their votes via Baby-Face Little Ralphie Reed by way anti-gambling messages?

I’m amazed by the people who say we can’t dare leave Iraq because the consequences would be awful.

But, the same people (probably) said that of Vietnam and look at it and that region today: it did go Commie, but it wasn’t a domino and the region didn’t turn Commie and now we’re doing business with them today. With that kind of failure maybe we SHOULD leave Iraq.

Those same people said we’d also be received by Iraqis with flowers and that we’d get the WMDs and Saddam. There were no flowers (just IEDs), no WMDs and Saddam is still wondering why we hate him.

If we keep listening to the same boobs who failed before, then it’s assured we’ll fail again.

We were wrong to go into Iraq.
We’ve had 3 years to win it.
We haven’t and can’t win it.
It’s time to leave and apologize to the Iraqi people and the U.N. [ Let John Bolton deliver the official apology speech. Heh ]

That picture of Bush up top says it all for me. He may not have his fingers in his ears, but he’s going “lalalala, I can’t hear you” all the same.

These “panels” and “studies” are just stalling devices. I’m sure they’re *hoping* they’ll come up with a workable answer. But I think they’ve FUBARed this situation so thoroughly that there *is* no good answer.

TeddySanFran @
20

This rehabilitation of Brand Bush is their last best hope for BushGenX and (horrors) Jeb!. While I wish the B/H-ISG the very best of solution-finding, there are some points to make:

1. B/H-ISG is a creation of Congress, and Congresscritters should be credited with it. I don’t mind puffing up John Warner’s reputation around this, and I doubt he would either. Likely he won’t run again in Virginia in 2008. B/H-ISQ is his legacy, not W’s.

2. The USA cannot afford another Brand Bush Blunder on this world-rocking catastrophic scale. If JB3 has to fix everything a Bush screws up, let’s remind our fellow Americans that JB3 is 76 years old and won’t be around to fix the next Bush Blunder, whichever Bush wreaks it. When the Bush FixitMan retires or shuffles off this mortal coil, no more Brand Bush, please!

3. Let’s give lots some more visibility to the patriotic Democrats who serve on B/H-ISG:
Vernon Jordan, Jr., business executive
Leon E. Panetta, former White House Chief of Staff
William J. Perry, former US Secretary of Defense
Charles S. Robb, former Governor of Virginia and former U.S. Senator

4. While I am unwilling to make W’s War Folly a “bipartisan error,” let’s try out this meme: W Needed Democrats to Find His Way Outta Iraq.

5. Or this one: The GOP Couldn’t Get the USA Outta Iraq, but Democrats Could.

6. Finally, I’m gonna call the minority party The Republic Party, and its members Republics, just to piss them all off. It’s a dig for their attempt to rename our party, and a subtle reminder that they used to be the Party of Lincoln, the Preznit who saved the Republic from the Rebels. Since they are the party of only Rebels and wannabe Rebels now, it shows the stark contrast between their party’s roots and its current loneliness. Which, incidentally, was pretty much the motive behind their changing our party’s name.

Anyone else on board for that?

=======
Who’s Next?
=======

i like your style, teddy…..

we could also call it the banana republic party.

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 11:08 am (#92)

Breaking news from ABC: SOURCES TELL ABC NEWS SENATOR HARRY REID IS IMPLICATED IN ABRAMOFF LOBBYING INVESTIGATION

For more details, please click on this link:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl…..ort_1.html

This looks like the same old smear that’s been making the rounds for a while now. There were several politicians, and Reid was one of them, who had been supported by Abramoff’s indigenous American clients for some time before Abramoff became their lobbyist. That relationship, for better or worse, continued while Abramoff was working for the IAs. I don’t see anything new here. Does anyone?

Rayne @ 94

1 Abizaid = 2 Friedmans = 3 terminated truthful Cabinet or senior administration officials = 4 turns of Cheney’s corner = 5 purple thumbs

And a partridge full of buckshot in a Humvee.

hilarious. i’d laugh if i wasn’t busy crying. :(

not just the senate armed services committee hearings just finished… but TMP’s reporting on murtha has got me seriously bummed…. on murtha and abscam:

The American Spectator got ahold of the FBI’s ABSCAM tape of its meeting with Murtha, and you can view it on the magazine’s Web site. It’s 53 minutes long, but a representative sample can be seen if you start at around 15:23 and watch for a few minutes.

“I’m gonna be blunt,” an FBI man says to Murtha after laying out what favors he was looking to buy. “Are you telling me now. . . you don’t want any money on this thing?”

“There’s some places I’d like you to invest some money, in the banks, in my district,” Murtha responds. “I’d say some substantial deposits.” He explains later how he does so many favors for people that, if they weren’t all for individuals in his district, “people would say, that son of a bitch. . . is on the take.”

“Once they say that, what happens?” Murtha asks the FBI men rhetorically, ignorant of the fact that he was explaining his own M.O. to agents trying to bust him for corruption. “Then they start going around looking for the goddamn money. So I want to avoid that by having some tie to the district. That’s all. That’s the secret to the whole thing.”

it get’s worse after that. and then there’s this on murtha and ethics reform:

Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) told a group of Democratic moderates on Tuesday that an ethics and lobbying reform bill being pushed by party leaders was “total crap,”

well, we knew that breaking the R control of congress was only the first step… but jeeze, do Ds have to make it so hard to be able to support them?

MarkH @ 11:14 am (#102)

I’m amazed by the people who say we can’t dare leave Iraq because the consequences would be awful.

But, the same people (probably) said that of Vietnam and look at it and that region today: it did go Commie, but it wasn’t a domino and the region didn’t turn Commie and now we’re doing business with them today. With that kind of failure maybe we SHOULD leave Iraq.

Those same people said we’d also be received by Iraqis with flowers and that we’d get the WMDs and Saddam. There were no flowers (just IEDs), no WMDs and Saddam is still wondering why we hate him.

If we keep listening to the same boobs who failed before, then it’s assured we’ll fail again.

We were wrong to go into Iraq.
We’ve had 3 years to win it.
We haven’t and can’t win it.
It’s time to leave and apologize to the Iraqi people and the U.N. [ Let John Bolton deliver the official apology speech. Heh ]

Even at this point, I’d be for staying on if I thought we were doing some good. I just don’t see it. The economy is a wreck, there are hundreds of Iraqis being killed by some form of terrorism each week, and very little is being rebuilt except for our own bases. The government we helped put in place is corrupt and ineffective. The Iraqis want us out, and I think the only thing that will be accomplished by staying longer is delaying the inevitable consequences of our leaving.

Cujo359 @ 105

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 11:08 am (#92)

Breaking news from ABC: SOURCES TELL ABC NEWS SENATOR HARRY REID IS IMPLICATED IN ABRAMOFF LOBBYING INVESTIGATION

For more details, please click on this link:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl…..ort_1.html

This looks like the same old smear that’s been making the rounds for a while now. There were several politicians, and Reid was one of them, who had been supported by Abramoff’s indigenous American clients for some time before Abramoff became their lobbyist. That relationship, for better or worse, continued while Abramoff was working for the IAs. I don’t see anything new here. Does anyone?

Now that Abramoff is in jail, he’s gonna sing his heart out about anything and anyone he can, hoping that investigators will get that shit to stick to the wall. My guess is that this story will get smacked down pretty quick.

Oh, and here’s a brain teaser: If Reid ever is forced out as Majority leader, someone please tell me that Joseph Lieberman is not next in line for that post.

Oh, and here’s a brain teaser: If Reid ever is forced out as Majority leader, someone please tell me that Joseph Lieberman is not next in line for that post.

Double dose of brain bleach, please.

cujo @ 107

Let’s not forget the embassy in Iraq that’s the size of Vatican City. I mean what clearer symbol would there be to the Iraqis that we have no intention of leaving?

mc, I believe that Dick Durbin (majority whip) would take his spot.

Rayne @
101

Stephen Parrish — agh. Isn’t this old news, that Abramoff-DeLay tried to obtain favors for the gambling industry (which would naturally be a constituent of the Senator from Nevada), while trying to shore up the wacko base and their votes via Baby-Face Little Ralphie Reed by way anti-gambling messages?

Having just read, albeit hastily, the ABC blog entry by Brian Ross and Rhonda Schwartz for which I provided a link earlier, I think it may be too soon for me to say that it is old news. Since many weeks have elapsed since I have seen any FDL comments about money contributed by Jack Abramoff to Senator Reid, I can’t compare amounts discussed on prior FDL threads with the amount of $ 30,000 appearing in the ABC blog entry.

selise @ 106

Rayne @ 94

1 Abizaid = 2 Friedmans = 3 terminated truthful Cabinet or senior administration officials = 4 turns of Cheney’s corner = 5 purple thumbs

And a partridge full of buckshot in a Humvee.

hilarious. i’d laugh if i wasn’t busy crying. :(

not just the senate armed services committee hearings just finished… but TMP’s reporting on murtha has got me seriously bummed…. on murtha and abscam:

The American Spectator got ahold of the FBI’s ABSCAM tape of its meeting with Murtha, and you can view it on the magazine’s Web site. It’s 53 minutes long, but a representative sample can be seen if you start at around 15:23 and watch for a few minutes.

“I’m gonna be blunt,” an FBI man says to Murtha after laying out what favors he was looking to buy. “Are you telling me now. . . you don’t want any money on this thing?”

“There’s some places I’d like you to invest some money, in the banks, in my district,” Murtha responds. “I’d say some substantial deposits.” He explains later how he does so many favors for people that, if they weren’t all for individuals in his district, “people would say, that son of a bitch. . . is on the take.”

“Once they say that, what happens?” Murtha asks the FBI men rhetorically, ignorant of the fact that he was explaining his own M.O. to agents trying to bust him for corruption. “Then they start going around looking for the goddamn money. So I want to avoid that by having some tie to the district. That’s all. That’s the secret to the whole thing.”

it get’s worse after that. and then there’s this on murtha and ethics reform:

Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) told a group of Democratic moderates on Tuesday that an ethics and lobbying reform bill being pushed by party leaders was “total crap,”

well, we knew that breaking the R control of congress was only the first step… but jeeze, do Ds have to make it so hard to be able to support them?

I’m beginning to think that all the support for Murtha because of his vociferous lead on Iraq withdrawal, but in spite of his corrupt behavior (over 20 years ago) smacks of ideological purity as a litmus test for receiving power. I thought thats what we were trying to get rid of? If Murtha can’t get up and offer a better explanation than “It was twenty-six years ago!” he does not deserve this leadership post. It’s a lame excuse.

seaside @ 110

mc, I believe that Dick Durbin (majority whip) would take his spot.

WHEW!!!

I thought I was going to have to start snorting TAMIFLU.

He. Wonkette just recapped a quote from the Bush’s last weekly radio address (I guess they’re the only people who still listen to it)… the preznit is proud of America for being able to hold an election in wartime.. “Whatever your opinion of the outcome, all Americans can take pride in the example our democracy sets for the world by holding elections even in a time of war.”

WTF? Has this country EVER cancelled an election due to war?

New Orleans will choose between Bill Jefferson (DLC, LA) and Karen Carter (DLC, LA). I guess this is what some call democracy.

Blub @
115

He. Wonkette just recapped a quote from the Bush’s last weekly radio address (I guess they’re the only people who still listen to it)… the preznit is proud of America for being able to hold an election in wartime.. “Whatever your opinion of the outcome, all Americans can take pride in the example our democracy sets for the world by holding elections even in a time of war.”

WTF? Has this country EVER cancelled an election due to war?

No, it has never done so.

Blub @ 114

He. Wonkette just recapped a quote from the Bush’s last weekly radio address (I guess they’re the only people who still listen to it)… the preznit is proud of America for being able to hold an election in wartime.. “Whatever your opinion of the outcome, all Americans can take pride in the example our democracy sets for the world by holding elections even in a time of war.”

WTF? Has this country EVER cancelled an election due to war?

He’s planting the seed for 2008.

An Angry Old Broad @ 11:26 am (#110)

cujo @ 107

Let’s not forget the embassy in Iraq that’s the size of Vatican City. I mean what clearer symbol would there be to the Iraqis that we have no intention of leaving?

I’d overlooked that one because it’s just another line item in that budget. Symbolically, though, it’s probably as important as all the bases. The thing’s supposed to be a diplomatic mission, after all.

Louisiana Girl @ 116

New Orleans will choose between Bill Jefferson (DLC, LA) and Karen Carter (DLC, LA). I guess this is what some call democracy.

well, one of the two didn’t have $90k in her freezer.

nicemonster @ 113

I’m beginning to think that all the support for Murtha because of his vociferous lead on Iraq withdrawal, but in spite of his corrupt behavior (over 20 years ago) smacks of ideological purity as a litmus test for receiving power. I thought thats what we were trying to get rid of? If Murtha can’t get up and offer a better explanation than “It was twenty-six years ago!” he does not deserve this leadership post. It’s a lame excuse.

i wouldn’t be so worried about 20 year old corrupt behavior if there was some sign that he’d learned his lesson and had changed his ways…. but yesterday, calling efforts on ethics and lobbying reform “total crap” doesn’t sound like a good sign to me.

i really want us out of iraq – and i am happy to support murtha when he works for that…. but house leadership for the ethically challenged? yuck. and not good for the Ds in the long run either – as the lessons of R corruption ought to teach us.

Rayne @ 94

1 Abizaid = 2 Friedmans = 3 terminated truthful Cabinet or senior administration officials = 4 turns of Cheney’s corner = 5 purple thumbs

And a partridge full of buckshot in a Humvee.

dingdingding! We have a Festivus anthem.

New Thread.

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..r/#respond

Louisiana Girl @
116

New Orleans will choose between Bill Jefferson (DLC, LA) and Karen Carter (DLC, LA). I guess this is what some call democracy.

Does Karen Carter have a freezer, though?

Festivus for the rest of us, Teddy.

[sigh]

MSNBC commentator (PA Dem lady) tells Monica Novotny, “not to step on Mike’s [”total crap” reporter] report, but my sources: one Murtha’s press sec, two a BlueDog Dem at the meeting last night, that what Murtha said was:

“It’s total crap that House members need an ethics bill in order to behave correctly, but since Nancy wants it, I’m for it.”

Paraphrase by tsf.

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 11:30 am (#112)

Rayne @
101

Stephen Parrish — agh. Isn’t this old news, that Abramoff-DeLay tried to obtain favors for the gambling industry (which would naturally be a constituent of the Senator from Nevada), while trying to shore up the wacko base and their votes via Baby-Face Little Ralphie Reed by way anti-gambling messages?

Having just read, albeit hastily, the ABC blog entry by Brian Ross and Rhonda Schwartz for which I provided a link earlier, I think it may be too soon for me to say that it is old news. Since many weeks have elapsed since I have seen any FDL comments about money contributed by Jack Abramoff to Senator Reid, I can’t compare amounts discussed on prior FDL threads with the amount of $ 30,000 appearing in the ABC blog entry.

It was in the $30k range. From a 2005 WaPo article:

The Indians’ largess flowed to higher-ranking Democrats as well. Senate Democratic leaders Reid and Daschle each received more than $40,000 from the tribes and from lobbyists on Abramoff’s team during the period.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02158.html

From a Bloomberg article dated Dec. 21, 2005:

Reid spokeswoman Tessa Hafen said the senator is still considering whether to return the $60,000 in donations he received from Abramoff associates and clients. The money includes contributions that came from Abramoff’s former employer, Greenberg Traurig LLP, a lobbying and law firm with multiple issues in Congress.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/…..p;refer=us

That Bloomberg article is one of the few I’ve seen that were careful enough to indicate that this relationship had existed in many cases before Abramoff arrived on the scene.

Teddy at 126 — fwiw, Murtha said much the same thing — that members of the legislature shouldn’t need to be told to behave well on the public’s business, but that he supported Pelosi’s reform package because she felt it was important — on a call yesterday. That said, I’m still wishing there was a much more progressive option, but folks have a choice between Hoyer or Murtha. And there it is. Unless a third party throws a late hat in the ring. Both men go into this race with plenty of baggage, and with up sides as well, and I am just glad that I don’t have to make a decision on the vote for either one of them, frankly. Politicians are human beings, not saints, no matter how much we might wish it otherwise sometimes. Ultimately, it will be Pelosi’s agenda that is implemented, and that makes me feel a bit better.

And if the Mike in question is Viguerie, he is a total crap reporter who tends to repeat hit piece remarks that he is spoon-fed, kind of like that Solomon guy from the AP who so agreeably spills out oppo from either side if someone is kind enough to type it up for him. SIGH

Christy Hardin Smith @ 11:53 am (#128)

Teddy at 126 — fwiw, Murtha said much the same thing — that members of the legislature shouldn’t need to be told to behave well on the public’s business, but that he supported Pelosi’s reform package because she felt it was important — on a call yesterday. That said, I’m still wishing there was a much more progressive option, but folks have a choice between Hoyer or Murtha. And there it is. Unless a third party throws a late hat in the ring. Both men go into this race with plenty of baggage, and with up sides as well, and I am just glad that I don’t have to make a decision on the vote for either one of them, frankly. Politicians are human beings, not saints, no matter how much we might wish it otherwise sometimes. Ultimately, it will be Pelosi’s agenda that is implemented, and that makes me feel a bit better.

And if the Mike in question is Viguerie, he is a total crap reporter who tends to repeat hit piece remarks that he is spoon-fed, kind of like that Solomon guy from the AP who so agreeably spills out oppo from either side if someone is kind enough to type it up for him. SIGH

This has been my reaction: “These are my choices?”. But these are our choices, and if that’s the choice I think Murtha’s a no-brainer unless there’s something really bad in his closet. He’s Pelosi’s choice and he’ll be a thorn in Bush’s side every time he utters anything remotely like “stay the course” about Iraq.

right, Christy, this is:

Hoyer (pro-war/AIPAC/K-street) vs. Murtha (ABSCAM/redeploy OTH).

This is a no brainer. Screw the insiders (both DEM and REP) who are swiftboating Murtha.

The voters decided this last Tuesday, they are tired of the dissembling from folks like Hoyer.

- Abizaid – “…[We] that are fighting,…. are going to give it until the Iraqi’s either are able to do the job, or show they can’t do it….I give it 6 to 8 months, and then we’ll know…”

- Now we know where the Dems got the “Great big fat Greek magic Technicolor Iraq plan”…

(Bush’s desk….)

…Paging Pelosi….Senator Pelosi, you have a call on the House floor curtesy phone….

Think of all the hubris, the deaths, the destruction due to Junior’s Oedipus complex. Junior needs his ass kicked hard and sent to bed without supper.

And speaking of a good son – isn’t Jim Webb impressive. The more I hear from and about this man,the more proud I am that me and Webb belong to the same political party.

So, this attack on Murtha is 26 years old…

Does it hold water or is it as superficial as the Murtha quote about the ethics bill?

I have a hard time imagining he would step up to a leadership post if he was really going to have to go through this whole ABSCAM thing again. What’s the deal here?

Forget these Republican plans. Their only purpose is to save Bush’s reputation, not the country. The democrats need to demand that Bush take full responsibility for the Iraq fiasco, admit there is no good outcome from anyone or any plan and then get out of the way (resign). The grown-ups take over and try to fix the mess as best they can. Bush won’t go, but it will sure sound good when the democrats tell the critics to shut up, stop criticizing and get behind them, after all they are going to be in charge soon.

Blub @ 115

He. Wonkette just recapped a quote from the Bush’s last weekly radio address (I guess they’re the only people who still listen to it)… the preznit is proud of America for being able to hold an election in wartime.. “Whatever your opinion of the outcome, all Americans can take pride in the example our democracy sets for the world by holding elections even in a time of war.”

WTF? Has this country EVER cancelled an election due to war?

Never. We have never cancelled an election during a time of war. I’m sure Bush thought about it. A tinge of regret in his voice? Hell, even during the Civil War, we didn’t cancel the elections.

Steve @
75

Has this been posted here? If not, here is the Iraq study group.

James Baker – US Secretary of State, 1989-92
James F. Dobbins – US Ambassador to the EU, 1991-93
Charles W. Freeman, Jr. – US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, 1989-92
Lawrence Eagleburger – Secretary of State, 1992-1993 (taking Robert M. Gates, nominee for SecDef)
Lee H. Hamilton – 9-11 Commission vice chairman
Vernon Jordan – Advisor to Bill Clinton
Ed Meese – Attorney General under Reagan, 1985-88
Sandra Day O’Connor – US Supreme Court Justice, 1981-2006
Leon Panetta – Bill Clinton’s Chief of Staff, 1994-96
William J. Perry – US Secretary of Defense, 1994-97
Chuck Robb – US Senator from Virginia, 1989-2001
Alan Simpson – US Senator from Wyoming, 1979-1997

Jebus if this is the best we can do to get us out of Iraq..we are really screwed

OLD BOY CRONY-ISM IS NOT GOOD MANAGEMENT. And, don’t tell me that Sandra Day O’Connor is not an old boy. Even if she’s not an old boy, she’s the only freakin’ women in the room. Hell, I’d even be happy if they thought to include anyone from the military, even a male.

We cannot trust that BushCo can attract good help. Bunch of freakin’ crony suits, fercrissakes.