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On November 3rd, just prior to the election, NPR ran a story on two of the biggest names in commercial voiceovers: Dennis Steele and Scott Sanders. The piece is absolutely brilliant – they start with replays of some negative and positive ads from this political season. But then, it gets really fun.
Let's just say that I'll never be able to think about John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt the same way again.
It's one thing to hear these ads, over and over again until you can recite them in your sleep, on your television or your radio. It's quite another to think about the artistic considerations that go into their production in terms of voicing choices and inflection and background music and everything else there is built into the background of the ad or used right out front (like…um…naked bimbo white chicks) to manipulate your perceptions of the candidates.
There have been all sorts of academic studies done on political ads, most of which come to no particular conclusion other than a well-produced ad with a good hook can pull people into your point of view. Negative ads can be effective, but there has to be some predisposition to suspect the targeted politician in the first place. (Although, to be fair, he or she IS a politician, so it's not like we're talking about raising questions about Mother Teresa or anything. One of the joys of being a lawyer is that politicians consistently rank below us in trustworthiness rankings. Woo hoo! Ahem…)
This past election cycle, as of the end of October, for every $1 of positive advertising, there were $10 of negative ad dollars spent on the air. We did quite a bit of discussion about ads, good and bad, through the last election cycle, but the NPR story on voiceovers truly brings home some very important aspects of the craft of political advertising.
So before the next election cycle starts heating up again, it is worth a pause to think about what worked — and what did not work. Because people should learn from their mistakes, instead of continuously pumping money down a consultant rat hole from which there is little to no return — that is just…stupid. What were your favorite political ads this season? Do you have a YouTube link or some other link to the ad? Which ones did you hate…and why?
And while we are at it, those robocalls have GOT to go.
Let's talk a little bit about advertising strategies this morning. And do listen to the NPR story. You'll thank me, truly, because it is absolutely brilliant. And completely freaking hilarious.
(Illustration via Sur La Lune fairy tales.)
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It’s hard to believe anyone is listening to these ads by the last month of the campaign. Same with robo calls. It’s all just ambient noise.
Fitz
THAT”S MY NAME TOO!
And while we are at it, those robocalls have GOT to go.
Bob Brink, member of the Virginia House of Delegates from Arlingotn County, is going to introduce legislation to ban robo calls. He blogs at 7 West.
Before yelling upstairs yet again for sleepy Daughter in Ohio to get a move on, posting a link to the Howard Dean birthday card project diary.
OT and EPU’d, but interesting…
I’m hearing on NPR that reports coming out of Japan say anyone taking Tamiflu should be watched carefully for signs of bizarre behavior, mental changes and convulsions, especially children. There may be side effects that haven’t been mentioned yet. As I recall, Don Rumsfeld is HEAVILY invested in Tamiflu, so maybe his retirement may not be as cushy as he was hoping…
The Peanut is feeling icky this morning, gang, so I’m writing with a small girlie on my lap. Let me know if I’ve missed a typo…
Marion at 4 — well, that’s a bit unnerving, isn’t it?
good morning all… sorry Peanut isn’t feeling well
Christy Hardin Smith @ 6
Well, I’m certainly not going to get anywhere near the stuff… I’ll do some prowling around the toobz at lunchtime to see if I can find out anything else. Hope the Peanut feels better soon.
It’s an icky fever and she’s feeling lethargic, so we’ve downed a little children’s motrin and I’m pushing fluids at her. And we’ll head over to the pediatrician’s office this afternoon. The ibuprofin has started to kick in over the last half hour and she’s more perky, so I’m hoping this is just the usual “small child picks something up at preschool” sort of ick.
I’ve been doing “traditional” grass-roots politics (doors, phone calls, lit drops etc.,) since I was 18 years old. (No, I won’t elaborate on how many years that is) What I’ve noticed in the past two campaigns (’04 and ‘06) is that these techniques are no longer effective. In fact, voters are getting more and more irritated by these traditional techniques…so much in fact, that we suspended our GOTV phone calls because we were getting very cranky people on the phone who were threatening to vote AGAINST our candidates if they got another call.
We need to develop new voter ID and GOTV techniques and start using them in 08. I think the party that develops the most innovative and clever technique will win a lot of votes in 08.
Maybe the emerging importance of the web and netroots can do something to revolutionize the process. It certainly needs it.
hizzhoner
I went to a school council meeting right after that show and every single parent and teacher had been listening to it and were all talking about it. It was delicious! Frankly, if someone were to run the Mother Goose rhymes — say, to advertise something fun like Mentos — the political ads would lose all power. After listening to those two men doing Humpty Dumpty, etc., just hearing their voices doing a political ad made me laugh again… remembering John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt! We could neuter many of those ads by mocking them. I loved the Lamont ads that did that! Maybe they should have gone farther in mocking Joe…
Hey Christie, if you’re still here…
I read something in the NYTimes about a decision in the Libby case re admissibility of classified material, basically that Fitz’s proposed restrictions on the use of classified material would be too onerous for Libby’s defense. Sorry don’t have the link, and don’t know if it’s something that you’ve already discussed here at the ‘Lake. I’ve been on deadline and haven’t been checking in much since the immediate post-election cheers.
Hizzhoner at 10 — I saw some of that as well, and I think it had a lot to do with the high volume of push polls and robocalls we were getting here this year above and beyond the GOTV calls. It was horrid. I’m wondering how things could be structured so that we are doing voter outreach on a personal basis more regularly, not just in the 72-hours prior to the voting. I’ve been thinking a lot about it and I keep coming back to the conclusion that if you form that sort of personal relationship — maybe on a precinct by precinct basis, and regularly — that the bonds voting-wise would be so much stronger. But how you do that with state party apparatus that is still being rebuilt (from scratch in a lot of places), and where we could barely find enough volunteers to do GOTV calls…I just don’t know. One thing is sure, we need to all put our minds to this and come up with something better — we can’t rely on voter disgust every cycle as the thing that puts us over the top.
harumpf – the LA Times already promoting the meme that there is lots of infighting within the Dems. Add that with a story yesterday on Pelosi’s earmarks…
big talkers at the LA Times – seeing how they are almost broke and have many, many problems of their own…
I got this too and stopped my MoveOn calls. One happy to hear from me (she’d already advance voted, was worried about it being counted properly), 6 slam receiver down, three answering machines — I can take a hint!
Wonder what would happen if folks got monthly calls not to for their vote or money, but just to say, “Hi I’m __________ calling from your (national, state, county, whatever) Democratic Party. What’s on your mind?” And then listen for ten minutes. A MoveOn type computer script could allow for feedback to the DataBanks.
drunkenhausfrau @ 11
My favorite was the sedan driving into the brick wall, a la crash-test dummies. Hmmm, not a bad metaphor for Lieberman and the Bush cabal.
my favorite ad was Lamont’s messy desk one – “he makes BAD COFFEE!”
That was a very funny piece on NPR. Thanks for the link.
My favorite ad had to be the one that brought down Harold Ford–the “Call Me!” fiasco. It was immoral, sure, but effective. I think the key to all these ads is that serious tone set by those voiceovers is both a plus and a negative. They are so over the top heavy-handed that they leave themselves wide open to ridicule. And satire is an incredibly effective way to defuse an ad bomb. But that “call me” ad was more of a humorous gimmick–which was a really difficult trick to get out of. Especially for someone like Ford who seemed particularly humorless.
Not that we should only learn from what wounded us, but what I’d like to see next round is more ads that take a bite out of the Republcians with humor.
OT
My new favorite vid. I *have* to share…
http://videothevote.org/thumbdrive.wmv
At the 24 second mark check out the newest in fashionable Republican neck-wear (my gopdar tells me this guy is R): a thumbdrive just inserted and hastily removed from the vote-counting computer at the Orange County CA Registar of Voters the night of the election.
Modeling that neckwear seemed to make the guy nervous.
[This vid was shot by my best friend and long-time collaborator Bad Otis Link]
Heard that story as I was driving on the expressway. You’re right the nursery rhymes redone as political ads were hilarious. It was a good humorous look at a serious topic.
I’m still not giving to NPR until they dump Faux News favorite faux liberal mara liason and senior black corospondent wan williams.
For me what works is what Howard Dean said; We need to go out and ask every voter for their vote. Few people are going to vote for you if you don’t give them the opportuniy.
Jeffrey Feldman @ 19
More than that silly ad, I think Ford hurt himself near the end of the campaign by showing up at Corker’s press conference uninvited. He looked obnoxious. It was tacticly a bad move. I don’t know why he thought he should do that.
OT – Truer words have never been spoken:
“The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them.”
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
njprogressive @
12
Christy -
In case you don’t already have it, here’s the link to Judge Walton’s opinion issued yesterday:
http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/op…..2006-a.pdf
Mornin’ all.
Sorry to hear Fi is not feeling well.
The NPR thing remined me of a book I have of politcally correct fairy tales. Very funny.
Same concept.
One of the joys of being a lawyer is that politicians consistently rank below us in trustworthiness rankings. Woo hoo! Ahem…
Is that why there’s natural progression from lawyer to politician? ;-)
Ah, but what do the political ad writers do once the elections are over? Bill Amend had an idea in yesterday’s Foxtrot.
Completely off topic, but I don’t know who else to ask. I was out on the porch this morning having a cig, and saw a huge flash of light in the sky at about ten min till six pacific time. I am at approx. 123 degrees west, 41 degrees north. Any astronomers or meteorologists out there who might have a clue? There was no thunder.
OldCoastie at 17 — I loved that one, too. That and the one with the kids that Ned worked with in Bridgeport. Both were wonderfully put together. I also enjoyed the Webb ad that he did in response to Allen’s “Sure, I said macaca, but Webb is mean to girls” idiocy. Here’s the link on that one. And then there was the Walz ad, which was wonderful and heartfelt…and so many more.
I don’t understand the tamiflu issue medically. Maybe contamination in the manufacturing process which has now been outsourced to the planet Jupiter.
The part about SecDef making $5,000,000 from it I do get.
The avian flu scam has made people afraid of regular flu, which frankly makes sense because it kills 35,000 Americans every year.
I’ll see what I can find on the medical nature of the tamiflu issue.
Re ads, a lot of us here liked the Walz ad. I put him onto egrBlue and people kicked in $1,000. All from that single ad.
Naturally I loved the Webb ads where he basically says he’s not gonna take any crap and he will represent us instead of the usual power loonies.
And the Lamont coffee ad. Genius.
Stephen at 23 — many thanks for the link!
Actually some nursery rhymes started out as political satire – back when open discussion of politics landed you in jail (or worse),e.g.
Georgie, Georgie, puddin’ and pie,
Kissed the girls and made them cry
- was about King George III.
MayDaze at 32 — very interesting stuff! Never connected George III and Georgy Porgy. Too funny!
sofistic @
27
You might have seen this:
http://skytonight.com/observing/ataglance
sofistic at 27: According to Starwatch this year could be a good one for the leonid meteor shower, but no one is sure. the best times to look will be predawn hours on the 17th, 18th and 19th.
Yes, a nursery rhyme about how all Poppy’s horses and all Poppy’s men cannot put Iraq back together again. . .
But I digress. I am still for door-to-door. Regular visits with the voters precinct by precinct. This is the grassroots approach to party building.
This is the single brilliant Move-On activity from 2004. Basic, requires serious commitment.
I don’t know how practical this is,or the various legalities involved,but it might be a good idea to work on having various”gatherings” year ’round and not just during the GOTV season.
Potluck dinners,carnivals,picnics,movie screenings,block parties,brunches,community service projects,etc. People can talk with each other alot easier over a meal or while working side by side to help better their community than they might be able to in the standard political venues. This might be less feasable for DC candidates,but for the local and state level,it could work wonders to offset negative advertising and whisper campaigns. If people have actually met the person running for office in a more casual social setting,they’ll be less likely to fall for dirty tricks,and maybe even ask a few questions instead of just believing what they’re told. Lose the suits and ties and appeal to people who might not even own a suit or tie. If we want to work to save the middle class,we’re gonna have to go to them,all year long,and listen to them,help them when we can if they’re in need. This might go a long way in negating that”liberals hate you”thing too.
Keep it simple,the average American voter won’t feel as comfortable with fancy dinners and cocktail party type of atmospheres. Keep it casual and fun. With enough volunteers,this doesn’t have to be an overly expensive venture either. It can’t cost more than fancy dinners,caterers and all that stuff. You want family friendly,fun and warmth,games,contests,little fun prizes for the kiddies,that kind of thing.
Robocalls must STOP and phone campaigns need to be coordinated so people don’t get overwhelmed with calls.
There is a lot of market data out there, surely we can find out who the likely Dem voters are in a more modern way?
Sorry of the interruption of the thread, but this thing was bigger than anything I have ever seen in the predawn sky. It covered the entire sky for about 1-2 seconds.
Again, I apologize for interruption.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 33
There are others, but, as you can see, I just woke up and need a little more coffee!
The Had Enough ad wins first prize around here. Yay tommy!
egregious @ 38
Not only the robocalls, but the jamming. That is so crude and alienates voters.
MayDaze @ 40
Here’s a link with nursery rhymes, their history, and trivia, etc. I am a huge fan of them!
http://www.rhymes.org.uk/
1998 (or was it 1997?) was a peak year for the Leonids and I was on a long term consulting gig in the Melbourne, Florida, area. The mom & pop motel I was staying at was a ways away from the commercial area, and hence the sky was quite dark. On the peak night I sat on the beach and watched the meteors come in from the east at a rate of at least a dozen a minute for an hour or more. I actually heard a few of them sizzling as they burnt up in the atmosphere. It was one of the most amazing experiences of my life.
egregious, I thought thimerosal had something to do with the problems with tamiflu, but I am way out of my depth there.
Wrt advertising, it’s key to know who the target audience is. Obviously there were a lot of low information CT voters who didn’t know that Joe torpedoed the fight to stop Alito and single handedly legitimized all the “bipartisan”
bullshitrhetoric from the WH, while they routinely bludgeoned Democrats. I don’t know what more Ned could have done. (What hurt him was his lack of legislative experience, but the Democrats couldn’t find anyone else to run against Lieberman4Lieberman, that’s not Ned’s fault and we all knew that when we began supporting him. In addition Ned ponied up a ton of his own money to stay in the fight, he and his wife are truly great Americans. I hope they write a book about their experience of the campaign, so they can come on the FDL Book Salon.)Advertising is identifying the target audience, finding ways (media buys) to contact them and then producing something that works for the target audience. As mentioned above the “call me” spot worked great in TN against Ford. Sadly, a lot of people in TN and CT don’t read FDL.
sofistic at 39: Sounds like a magical moment to me.
angry old board: I agree that the candidates would to do well to tone down appearance to average people and their life styles.
I don’t get regular TV, I watched the governors’ debate on C-Span, and i got to say, the only candidate that got the ? right on ethanol was the Indepenent who ran. Perhaps the other parties should fully inform themselves before taking a stand on a issue.
bg @ 36
Actual face-to-face contact is the most effective. When I ran for President of my Local, I made it a point to find as many members as possible and personally ask for their votes. Can’t tell you how many members told me later, “I voted for you because you came to me and asked for my vote.”
Thimerosal is a different issue.
Btw the Danes did a meticulous study during and after the use of thimerosal in vaccines and found zero effect on their autism rate.
eg
Dem from Ct over at The Next Hurrah has been closely following the flu story, with special attention to H5N1.
Here is the most recent post.
sofistic @ 39
Hey sofistic, try this wikipedia site on Iridium flares. The iridium network is a series of communications satellites. As they pass overhead, they may catch a glare from the sun, resulting in a long, metorite-like trail of light.
I’m probably in a minority,but I don’t like the whole idea of GOTV phone calls. Personally,I find them intrusive,and not alot different than any other type of telemarketing. But I’m not a big phone person anyway,which isn’t the norm these days. Other people may not mind them,I have no idea.
I know phoning is a big part of politics these days,and I know it probably helps bring in some people to the polls,but I wonder what elections would look like without phone calls. I think there should be rules for political TV ads too,if you lie,there’s a big ass fine and maybe even forfeiture of the campaign that does the lying.
Sophisticated marketing sytems have been around for a long time. Read “The clustering of America” (quite old by now) and see how the Prism system is used to target regions for marketing purposes. Here are the categories they use:
I saw “my” voters one-on-one so many times before the 2004 election by going d-t-d for MoveOn. I still see them, they remember me.
I am the Ward Chair for the Democrats in my area now, but I still like to walk my home precinct.
Last Tuesday, I worked the polls. I asked to be put in my home precinct. I got moved just after the day started, so I did not get to see all my peeps that day. I do not know if my (limited) d-t-d (in my precinct) helped get anyone to the polls, have not checked the voter roster as we are still a countin’ here. But, I am on a first name basis with the voters who still reside at the same addresses today. (We have a lot of rentals, so it changes a lot. . .)
I just know it works to see the voters, and to communicate with them regularly.
We have so much work to do to take back our democracy. But I have to say that as totally freakin’ partisan as I am, I really felt at the end of the day last Tuesday, that (with paper ballots) win or lose, it felt GREAT that people came to vote and the person with the most votes would win, even if the people disagreed with me.
I’d say that was my best moment since the disaster of ‘04.
OT
Barack Obama
The bloom has been off that rose for quite awhile in my opinion. Obama has not taken a meaningful position on anything since the Dem Presidential Convention. He gave a great speech that night and since then has been pretty much spineless. He backtracks and spins to the point where his words have absolutely no resonance anymore.
How anyone thinks he would be a good candidate, let alone, the actual president in 2008, is beyond me. Don’t get me wrong. I think he is very likeable and generally a positive voice(however weak) in the Senate.
But with the incredible spotlight that was put on him ever since he was elected, you would think he would have used that as a bully pulpit to attack more Democratic issues (minimum wage increase, drug plans that actually work for seniors, campaign finance reform, voting laws reform, etc.). Instead, he more and more is looking like Lieberman. He sways wherever the political winds are blowing.
Makes me wish Chappaquiddick had never happened and that Kennedy were a possible choice.
Although the Harry Reid thread is closed, I would just like to comment that I have been anti-Reid since the Easter Sunday when Reid was one of the Democrats who flew into DC, to cast a vote for Terri’s law, which would have allowed Terri Schiavo to still be hooked up to machines which merely kept the shell going.
I will not forget that act by Harry Reid!
AAOB, I think you bring up a good point.
Democrats appear to have lost precinct level organization that they used to have in the old “machine” days. If every neighboorhood block has a rep, reporting to a precinct captain, then you tailor the GOTV to what the individual wants. For example, the precinct captain has a spread sheet that records that AAOB, doesn’t want a call. That kind of “tailored” GOTV imho is something we want to strive for in 08.
egregious @ 48
Salon & Rolling Stone did a great joint investigative piece on Thimerosol…I believe Kennedy authored it…some real eye opening facts …heres the link , hope it works
http://dir.salon.com/story/new……html?pn=1
off topic a little
I’m predicting a mcCain guiliano ticket, that looks pretty strong to me
There was a major article in the New Yorker last year about Harry Reid. As much as he has not voted sometimes for things that matter to me, I have to say, the guy came out of a trailer park, he married outside his religion, and he really does support basic Democratic ideals even when it may go against his constituency.
He has some personal things, like anti-choice, that frustrate me, but I think he is a decent guy. I know there have been some recent charges of corruption, but I don’t know if those have been substantial/substantiated.
I really did not support Casey in PA for some of the same reasons we hate the Ds who do not go “all the way” with us.
But what matters right now is getting out of the suckhole of Iraq. The Iraqi people, it gets worse and worse. I don’t think there is any hope, and I don’t know how we get out, but we have got to get out.
John Casper @ 56
Absolutely! People have caught on to the mass marketing machine. Faith Popcorn predicted some cultural trends a long time ago, (such as cocooning), but it appears that there has been a fundamental shift in how people see marketing, including political marketing. They want that personal touch, and that will get out the vote IMHO.
I’m sure Christy will do her usual fabulous job dissecting the decision Judge Walto released in the Libby case today. I just skimmed it and I got two quick thoughts out of it:
1) the greymail defense has failed utterly as a DEFENSE
2) Poor PatFitz is going to be working hard over the Thanksgiving and X-mas holidays.
Poor baby. And his birthday is in there too.
Frankly, I can not stand either of their voices (including that women’s attack voice). They are a turn-off, especially when they support my candidate. My impression is politicians are chickens if they need a surrogate to do their bidding. That is what these voices embody. Sleaze. And the sleaze rubs off on the attacker not the attackee.
If you want a good example of an advertisement, using the candidate’s voice, which artfuly attacks the opponent, I suggest you check out the ad by Amos Williams, candidate for AG of Michigan. That ad is the gold standard.
My favorite ads were those by Michael J. Fox, tommy yum et al, Ned’s and his “and we do to!” with real people, and Jim Webb’s. All of them conveyed hope and change with no nasty messages.
I did lots and lots of GOTV calls, but my experience was that I only occasionally got a voter who really wanted to talk (and I cherish those memories)– otherwise I got hung up on or hollered at. As for robocalls– blech! There has to be a better way to motivate than that. I am thinking, for instance, of local rallies on weekends with high visibility and taking advantage of local fairs and events.
btw– I am really fed up with hearing about Guiliani, McCain, and Hill this morning. 150 people were kidnapped in Iraq today…
Nice to see Shuster hosting though.
It’s important to distinguish between “negative” issue-oriented ads that inform voters about your opponent’s stands on the issues, and pure negative ads that attack his/her character (including bogus “fake issue” ads like the “voted for research about sex.”)
Research has shown that when people say they hate negative ads, they’re actually talking about the latter category, but news stories about them almost always lump both kinds in together (leading to ludicrous situations like the Michael J. Fox ad being called an attack ad.)
Good Morning.
Did you see this?
This is the guy who sent white powder to Pelosi, KO and others. I heard he was a regular commentor at some blog in the bigotsphere, that has been shut down. seems the feds needed their server. Have not confirmed which site yet.
I think this deserves the T-Rex treatment. Who is the party of unhinged wacky zealots again? Hmmm?
perris, formerly known as me to me, @ 59
The problem with that ticket is getting through the primaries. Other than being Law and Order, Rudy could just as easily be a Dem on social issues that drive Republican primaries. McCain also will have trouble getting past the primaries.
I agree they could make a strong general election ticket. However, Rudy has much more poop about to be flung his way in the form of more Bernie Kerick scandals.
Kerick is about as toxic as Abramoff in a smaller way. Everybody and his brother inn NY is investigationg Kerick related stuff. That’s how the tapes about Pirro came out. Pirro wasn’t the wiretap target, Kerick was.
At least that’s the gossip in this little corner of the world. I don’t know myself.
My impression is that an increasing number of Americans are developing a “slick detector” as well as a refined bullshit detector. And no matter how smooth the voiceover, it will not substitute for a real person at your door talking about real things in your community. There is a fundamental change coming in our culture, and it is only now beginning to show.
Oilfieldguy @
66
It maybe Free Republic, from Rawstory.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._1113.html
Ah yes, the freepers.
Oilfieldguy @
66
Have you seen this?
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._1113.html
I didn’t find any more people annoyed by phone calls than any previous year, but answering machines are certainly making them less and less effective. I’ve never found anyone who objected to door-knocking, at least when it’s done by people in the neighborhood. Plenty of people will say “no, thanks,” but no one seems upset by it.
Personal, local contact is they key. In any area where we can get down to the block captain level, that would be the most effective. Getting a sense for which of your neighbors are Dems, keeping track of when people move away and making contact with the new people, and having personal contact so it means something when you ask them to be sure to come out and vote. However, I live in a precinct that’s about 2/3 Democratic, and I’m lucky if I can get one or two people in the entire precinct to help out regularly, so it’s a tough job.
I’m wary of putting too much stock in marketing techniques. I think the GOP oversold that, as we saw in this election, and it’s not cheap.
I think the key for everyone is to concentrate on your own neighborhood first, and make sure it’s solid. I doubt there’s a lot that can be done to maintain regular contact with voters long-distance, so for areas without a local organization, we’re probably stuck with election-season phone calls and mailings.
sofistic @ 68
I think you’re right. The old saw about negative ads is that they are used because they work. I think that is starting to go by the boards. In my state senate race, the Dem ran negative attack adds and was beaten. There are demographic factors there, but the local talking heads think that people were put off by the ads.
The new wave has to be using their own words against them, i.e., “macaca”. McCain would be really vulnerable to this with his many shifting positions over time.
Way back when I studied political science, it was considered smart politics to “tailor” your message to your audience. With YouTube, that is now a recipe for disaster.
…often writing about science fiction and conservative politics…
heh heh… you simply can not make this up.
I found this science article about voting very interesting: Drawing voters to the polls tomorrow, researchers say, may be as easy as asking them to picture themselves voting.
Millineryman @ 69
I don’t ever want to read another article on the “fever swamp” of the left blogosphere!
You know, as someone who has also written science fiction in her day, and who knows many wonderful science fiction writers of all political stripes, I have to say that some nutball who claims to write SFF and crazy, powder-filled mash notes to liberals should not be confused with a serious writer. Especially since a lot of the best science fiction has very sophisticated political undertones and overtones (I’m thinking Dune, a lot of Asimov’s work, lots of Harlan Ellison’s best, Joe Haldeman, Ursula LeGuin…the list is endless, and this is amazing writing and characterization along with philosophy.) I’m just saying…don’t jump on the “people who read science fiction are nerdy weirdos” bandwagon, because it simply is not the whole of it. And a LOT of science fiction and fantasy readers write and read blogs. (A great example is the folks over at Making Light, who are fantastic editors at TOR, along with great progressive bloggers. And that’s just a start…) I don’t mean to start some back and forth literature discussion, but I do mean to say that some crazy ass alleged criminal should not taint an entire literary genre — because crazies exist in all areas on all sides. Trust me, I have unfortunately lived in the world of crazies as a prosecutor, and there are more than enough of all stripes to go around. And then some.
My .02 cents worth re phone campaigning is:
the dems need a complete, up-to-date, universally accessible phone list so that all the organizations doing calling will only reach a dem voter 2-3 times at most.
We also need to advise dem voters that the dems do NOT do negative robo calling.
I believe Moveon should do some ads in the vein we are discussing talking about all those robo calls misleading in the first seconds about who is doing the calling. To alert voters to the problem.
And especially, if these robo calls can get around the ‘do-not-call’ list. Can people still get their names on that list?
I liked the general positive tone of the Webb ads, but I didn’t find any of the Virginia ads this year especially striking. My favorite was a Dem response to a Michael Steele ad in Maryland. Steele had these ads that never mentioned he was a Republican and talked about how he’d bring change to Washington (dishonest, but an attempt to grab the “throw the bums out” mantle.) In particular, he had an ad early on talking about how you were seeing all kinds of attacks on him (well before there actually were any), and you’d probably see ones saying he “Michael Steele hates puppies.” Then he holds up a puppy, and says “for the record, I love puppies.”
The response ad said it’s nice that he likes puppies, but people need to know his stands on the issues, and went through a litany of his unpopular stands, including being anti-choice and a war supporter, and how he was being dishonest about being different. Effective, but the great part was the end — it showed a still of him with the puppy, and said “and for the record, it’s not even his dog!” :-)
May I ask an OT question?
Forgive me being in the “late to the party” category on this one but I was wondering why Biden seems to be generally not well liked?
Prior to this election most of my political in put has been from the TV (throw tomatoes here) and I always liked Biden. I thought he direct and well versed on foreign affairs. I understand him when he speaks. But I’ve found that my good (albeit uninformed) opinion isn’t shared (by many, not all) and in my quest to be a better informed voter, am wondering why.
I hope it is OK to ask this here. I’ve been wanting to ask this question for a while but as a lurker am hesitant to stick my toe into the water… Let me know if there is a better place to post questions like this if I have faux pas’d in a major way.
Thank you.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 78
Yay Christie, I’ve always thought that Science fiction is the best vehicle for socal and political commentary. Even on TV, with Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It’s much easier make sharp social critiques that evade the censorious aspects of the forces that be when the characters are all demons and make-believe types.
Redshift @ 75
From the linked article:
The technique works, Libby explained, because when people imagine themselves from a third-person perspective, they picture themselves as others see them. They become concerned with how their actions look and become likelier to engage in behaviors that are socially valued—such as voting.
This approval-seeking behavior, i.e., a person displaying behavior that (s)he sees as approved by society, is a key to understanding a lot of poll results. When asked questions like how often they vote, attend church, belief in god, etc., where there is a perceived “correct” answer, the results are usually skewed toward that socially acceptable position.
Re The Freeper Fake Anthrax Dude.
Sam Seder was just saying a little while ago that Air America’s New York offices got 3 suspicious packages yesterday,one addressed to Al Franken.
Free Republic has been taken over by the Feds? Priceless. Wow.
That NPR interview was fun. Imagine what those two guy could do with Irving . . .
(ominous music)
His name is Irving Lewis Libby, Jr., but everyone calls him “Scooter.” Everyone, that is, except for US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald. To Fitzgerald, he is “the defendant, Mr. Libby.”
(music deepens)
Scooter was Vice President Cheney’s Chief of Staff. He was important, and everyone knew it. He knew things. Important things. Secret things. Things that could get people killed if they became public.
(deeper music still)
And then they became public.
(silence)
In a fit of political pique, an undercover CIA agent was outed, along with her cover company, thereby endangering the lives of countless other CIA operatives. Once important sources went silent, and new sources became difficult to recruit.
All because someone in the White House was angry over an op-ed column by the agent’s husband.
(resume music)
When federal investigators asked Scooter about his role, he told them that a journalist had first told him about the agent. That was a lie. And it was documentable as a lie.
His name is Irving Lewis Libby, Jr., but everyone calls him “Scooter.” Everyone except Patrick Fitzgerald. To Fitzgerald, he is “the defendant, Mr. Libby.” He’s accused of obstruction of justice, perjury, and making false statements to federal investigators.
Feeling lucky, Mr. Libby?
(music crescendoes)
Why don’t you tell us what you really know, before it’s too late?
(music ends with the sound of a cell door slamming)
And that’s just a start…
– Redd @ 78
David Brin, author of “Startide Rising” (one of my favorites) was a NASA consultant and physics professor.
Angry at 84 — yeah, the NYPost had a small blurb about that as well. Moron or morons, depending on who was behind the Air America packages. Absolutely reckless and uncalled for idiocy, for which the book ought to be fully thrown, in my opinion, if the evidence supports the throwing of it.
I’m a sci-fi fan myself. I didn’t see the stain myself. This guy is just a rightard looney tune who deserves some striped sunshine at the crossbar motel.
Redd, no offense intended for SF writers, and I agree about the importance of the genre… even the corny 70s star trek shows always tried to teach.
But something tells me this guy is more of a hack who mixes extremes views with out of this world writings…
Further information re Tamiflu in the pediatric population:
http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/i…..051117.htm
An information sheet from the FDA on Tamiflu use in the pediatric population. The most salient information may be:
“Was it possible that the large number of adverse events from Japan was because the Japanese use more Tamiflu? Is it possible that we may see more U.S. cases as use of Tamiflu increases in this country? Partly because of the awareness in Japan of influenza-associated encephalopathy, the Japanese health service will pay for rapid diagnostic testing for influenza in children and subsequent treatment. Japan currently uses the majority of the world’s supply of Tamiflu distributed for seasonal influenza. It is possible that some of these events might be observed in the U.S. population if the use of Tamiflu increases substantially.” (emphasis mine)
OldCoastie @
15
NOt your point but a different one: LATimes isn’t broke. They make 20% or $200 million on revenue. The argument over cutting back is Wall -Street, bottom-line greed over making barrels of money instead of just buckets.
Judith Miller also in the news yesterday…..
http://www.suntimes.com/news/m…..14.article
…with testimony that helps Fitzgerald’s office. Then, to be camera shy or not to be camera shy? That is the question.
oldcoastie @ 15:
Add to that yesterday’s editorial about how we should allow immigrants to run for President. Someone high up there is an Ahnold fan. (Me, I like the way it’s set up now. It’s worked fine for more than two hundred years. It ain’t broken.)
RedJet @ 81
He’s a finger-in-the-wind politician who voted yes on the Iraq War and appears to be in bed with the banking industry.
Other than that, I like him too.
The mere fact that a piece was done (NPR’s) showing what goes into an ad that is trying to influence a person’s perception of a politician, is in itself, a great influencing factor in my perception of politics in general.
More pieces, on TV, radio, and the Web, should be done to educate (and expose) the general population to the Black Art of PR.(Pop Propaganda = PopProp to coin a new word)
It forces the disingenuous to get even craftier.
I could see an ad in my mind’s eye where a politician, on camera, is repeatedly interrupted by the director to ‘fine tune’ their voice, body language etc.. This in itself would tend to short circuit the manipulative qualities of the whole political ad genre. Comedy is very good at ripping the pretense away from the contrived.
I submit Will Ferrell’s fantastic parody ad of Bush doing take after take on his ranch, while trying to come off as sincere, as exhibit one.
Comedy always gives a good tour through the sausage factory. And I’ve always thought that Sarcasm (snark) exists to mock those who don’t understand Irony (GOP.
Sarcasm is the banana peel tossed on the sidewalk for the irony challenged to slip on and provide amusement for the rest of us.
Pulling back the curtain on the politicans PopProp is a vital goal and public service in itself. In fact here at FDL, I believe it has been in the mission statement since day one.
Thanks Christy and Jane.( and of course the mighty Trex!)
kemo at 89 — no offense taken — I just wanted to nip any possibility of it heading down the wrong path in the bud before it got started. We’ve got a lot of SFF readers here, some of whom don’t comment regularly, but I get lotsa e-mails…and I didn’t want some misconception to take hold where it shouldn’t, ya know? :)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 87
This goes back to the original sin, the mailing of the real deal, where people died, and no one was convicted or even arrested. Shallow thinkers believe they too can get away with it.
Where is the justice for the original crime?
JF @ 23
Back in the ’40s (the age of emergent realpolitik thinking, which as we all know has saved the world), Einstein’s political views were considered naive and unsophisticated. Maybe people wanted to believe that unlike in physics, Einstein’s “political mind” was no more than their equal. I’m not so sure; I see in Einstein’s views resonances of King or Gandhi, and I’m inclined to take him seriously after seeing what fifty years of Cold War realpolitik have wrought.
Redjet,
Biden is the classic Washington insider. By that I mean he forms his opinions, so it would seem after the conventional wisdom has determined what is the safest stance to take.
He’s rather charming and easy to listen to and seems to make sense until you realized that it is because much of what he says is quite obvious.
Surely there are far worse folks in Washington, but Joe is the classic lead from the rear politician.
-GSD
And he really likes to hear himself talk too much.
Peterr — I spit coffee all over the screen! very good… and see? doesn’t that convey all the info we want to convey and yet make it fun? I love that kind of ad.
For the record, I also like the positive, hopeful, we have good ideas for the future ads — Russ Feingold always does that kind of ad.
honestly, I ca’t imagine why anyone even listens to a robo call. It’s not like you are hanging up on a person trying to make a living by telemarketing.
Raw Story headline:
‘CIA acknowledges presidential order for detention facilities abroad’… Developing…
GSD @ 99
from a purely communications standpoint, he’d be an outstanding presidential candidate. He knows how to talk so everyone understands him.
his biggest liability is being in the Senate since the time of methuselah. He’d get caught up explaining his 1978 appropriations vote, etc.
RedJet, wrt Biden, per lina’s response, I think the perception is that he comes from a relatively blue state, Deleware, but that his rhetoric is not nearly as blue. When a Dem like Ben Nelson, caves into the middle, it’s more understandable, because he’s from Nebraska. When Lieberman (CT), Hillary, Schumer,(NY) DiFi (Feinstein, CA) and Biden do it, it guts the party, the nation, and the world. JMO
OT, the hair plugs and bleached white teeth don’t travel well at FDL.
Carol Shea-Porter in NH had two very rudimentary ads. One introduction ad shot in a living room with her mother sitting next to her and then chiming in at the end in her best New Englandese accent: “Vote faw my dawta, Care-all Shay Pawta”.
The other ad, shot in the same room was also no fluff and just a straight appeal for votes.
I know the media types would have pulled a nut at the blandness and lack of production quality, but frankly that is what made them so effective. They were just a non flashy and honest appeal, nothing more.
-GSD
kemo @ 75
And he tried to argue, in essence, that science-fiction liberalism (which, as near as I could tell, included any attempt at social commentary that he could identify) was irrelevant. Now, there is no question that writers and producers of science fiction come from all over the political spectrum, as do fans; but at least in my experience, a taste for science fiction is generally more characteristic of the progressive/liberal left than of most other parts of the spectrum. Men may be from Mars and women from Venus, but I think we ALL know what planet is Castagana/Costanzo’s home.
GSD– I loved the ad with her mother– it was terrific!
One of the nice things about having an unlisted number is that I don’t get much in the way of calls from political campaigns or from vacuum cleaner salesmen. Suits me fine.
One of the thing that I like about our system in Canada is that voter’s lists do not identify political affiliation – which means that political parties cannot target different strategies to different audiences.
Though the NDP does have my name on list somewhere because I once called them for a lawn sign – but even then, they generally limit themselves to a call before the election and one on election day to see if I need a ride to the poll. Much more and I would get deeply cranky.
Peterboy @ 101
Which is why the rethug scam – referring to the Dem candidate and then calling back over and over – was so effective.
No one’s mentioned it yet, but production values matter. I can’t tell you how many political ads I saw here in the Bay area that a tech-savvy high school student couldn’t have improved with a couple of keystrokes.
The worst of them made the classic used car salesman ads (”Come on down to Earl’s . . .”) look sophisticated. Ouch!
Hollywood actress under fire for sayin it’s OK to drink when yer pregnant..
What I wanna know is- who the hell listens to actresses for medical advice?
Category of “oughta be shot fer stupidity”
EvilDrPuma @ 106
Gosh darn those librul space heroes in their far away galaxies fighting the totalitarian elements of the brave new velt! We can also label the author of Dune as an enemy combatant for his use of the word j*h*d.
OT– Sirota has a beaut up at HuffPo
Christy Hardin Smith @
78
Well yeah, Christy. And based on what the guy has written, he’s a TV sf fan, not a reader. Over on ML, Teresa has taken apart his letter to SFW very effectively.
Biden – his support for the bankruptcy fiasco is one reason I detest him. He is owned by many financial lobbyists and is not afraid of catering to them.
And he likes to hear himself talk and he is ready to knock down his own party just ’cause he can.
angie @
107
Angie,
It really was endearing.
-GSD
Also, Montana politics gets a little quirky.
A Republican state senator pulls a reverse Liberman and switches to the Democrats, giving them a one vote advantage and control of Senate.
In the tied house, there was a tie between two house members. In a tie, the Governor gets to pick and break the tie.
Democratic Governor Brian Schweitzer will gladly do that.
Mondo Montana.
rwcole @ 111
People who lack the critical reasoning ability to distinguish between meaningful, scientifically valid statements and the ravings of celebrities who may be no more informed than they are.
You know…Americans.
65 Days left to Libby
No plot, No crime…
Another misleading headline.
Who is this Matt from AP?
Many plots, many crimes, much bull shit!
Jack
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00434.html
actors are trained to talk—for hourse if necessary—about shit they know virtually nothing about—while appearing to be informed..
It’s a great talent- but don’t let one perform surgery on you!
If ya need medical advice, spiritual advice, financial advice, legal advice,
GO TO SOMEONE WHO FUCKIN KNOWS SOMETHING!
rwcole @ 118
You mean the folks in Cahleefornia shouldn’t have elected a couple of them as governors?
rwcole @ 119
Like Raygun?
Redshift @
73
You’ve found one now! Because of solicitation calls, I gave up on my telephone long ago, and screen all calls unless the caller ID tells me that I know you. The end result is that such calls annoy me a little less, because I never take them.
Door-knocking, however, really angers me. It takes advantage of social rules that make it hard to just say “no” and shut the door. Not to mention that I was probably interrupted doing something to have to go and be rude to someone. I can hardly wait for a door-answering machine.
So how to reach me? Speeches, essays, genuine word of mouth.
Peterr @ 120
I’ve said it before, and I’m saying it again: Californians had plenty of warning about the dangers of voting for Austrian carpetbaggers.
OK–Goopers oppose “moral relativity”..
What they are opposing is college sophomore relativity which basically goes “why should I listen to you about moral issues- I’ve got my own opinion- based on 19 years of sizing up the world.”
Interestingly, what goopers promote is a version of the same fuckin thing.
Don’t listen to scientists about scientific issues—- they’re fuckin liberals- don’t ya know- and your opinion- or your neighbors–or yer preacher’s or George fuckin Bush’s—is every bit as valuable…
The complete democratization of knowledge—a gooper wet dream…
MayDaze @ 48
A member of my family has successfully run for office several times, always with the goal of meeting every single potential voter.
I couldn’t do this with my election because it would have required me to Talk With People [eek] but we did a fabulous mailing.
I highly encourage people here to consider running for local office. Or at least start thinking who you know that you could persuade to run, and then help them like OFG does.
For the first time in six years, I feel like it’s okay to not be obsessively concerned about politics.
Nancy Pelosi has made it clear that Jack Murtha is her guy, and Democrats will vote against her at their peril.
Best Nancy Pelosi quote — in 2005, when asked by worried members of her caucus when she would bring out a Social Security plan, she responded: “How about never — does never work for you?”
I heart Nancy — she’s tough as nails and smooth as silk, and she will do what needs to be done.
Pelosi for President ‘07 bumper sticker –
Regime change begins at home — and you have to take out the trash all at once.
rwcole @ 124
And that goes double for the fundamentalist wing, who are essentially arguing that right and wrong depend not on consistent application of any principle of distinction, but on God Saying So…even if what he says is okay for the Chosen Few is what he says is wrong for the Unwashed Heathens.
Come to think of it, that pretty much seems to be a basic theme for any rigidly-thinking religious extremist, doesn’t it?
Fresh thread, gang.
Puma- yeah Plato was able to get that argument to eat itself alive over 2,000 years ago (Does God love the good because it is good- or is it good because God loves it?)
Very interesting point- would love to see it developed further.
John Casper @ 104
Joe Biden is a bloviating windbag who has been in the cave of winds known as the Senate for too long. Plus, he was revealed as a plagiarist during his last bid for the presidency.
angie @ 113
Not only has Murtha been the leader on the Iraq issue, for me, just as important is that he has the ear, respect and trust of the military brass. Recall when he came out strongly, some people here speculated he had been briefed in confidence by the generals. It is as though he saw a draft of the MilTimes editorial six months before it was published.
He may not be clean, but he is the person that is required for the leadership position.
sofistic @
43
If the Dems put a moratorium on robo calling say 7 days before voting day, by which time all *real* work should have been done anyway, any remaining calls would be Repubs, no? People would know who to hate and the R’s GOTV fangs would be drawn.
Or am I dreaming.
I liked the DSCC ad pointing out Jim Talent’s record of voting repeatedly against increasing the minimum wage, while accepting $165k salary. It was a good shot at Talent, and also boosted the turnout for raising the minimum wage in Missouri.
It was a negative ad, but not a smear/fear ad.
http://www.dscc.org/news/multi…../index.htm
I’ve been thinking about this, because, even though I wasn’t bombarded, I did get about a half-dozen robocalls on behalf of the Governator of California. I couldn’t hang up – once I picked up, I could hang up and they’d still be talking 10 seconds later. That’s not only annoying, but dangerous. It’s pretty clear that dishonest robocalls cost Dems several house seats, and it would be just as bad if the shoe were on the other foot.
The first amendment guarantees free speech, but it does not require me to listen. If the Dems are smart, they will on the federal and state level propse legislation that does the following:
1. Require announcement of the sponsoring party/entity up front, instead of at the end. This should be required for live calls as well.
2. Require an opt-out (”if you don’t wish to receive further calls of this nature, please press 1″) that would work immediately on the firm making the calls.
3. Require that the call cut the connection if the answering party hangs up.
4. Prohibit auto-redial on calls that are hung up on.
6. Penalties should be in the neighborhood of $10,000 and 3 months in jail for each individual call that violates these rules.
I can’t imagine how someone can oppose the gist of that legislation. And if they do, it’s so easy to run against them on that issue.
Now is the time.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 78
I am glad you brought up Asimov, as it is apropos give recent comments about Senator Obama. Do you recall the scene in the Foundation Trilogy where they analyze a politicians long winded speech and come to the conclusion that he had said nothing. When I heard Senator Obama on NPR about 10 days ago, I had flashbacks to that trilogy because his answers to callers questions fit that pattern. He would go on and on, and in the end he said exactly nothing.
Peterr @ 109
Low production values is not always a bad thing. I believe that the point is content, content, content. I remember Darcy Burner’s ads being *loudly* trashed here at the ‘lake. I liked them and would have voted for her, she seemed so refreshingly *real*. The technically much better Ned messy desk/bad coffee ad left me with a bad taste in my mouth. My reaction was, “So what? This guy wants my vote? Are there no real issues he can run on? Clueless!” I thought the kid ad was OK and the car-into-wall ad was fabulous, that would have gottem my vote despite the bad coffee (disclaimer — I am a coffee snob).
This is only my second post so I hope I don’t break any rules but this topic is on my mind after working on campaigns in CT-4th CD.
After 30 years in professional sales, I’ll tell you that you can’t connect with someone unless you get them to want to hear your message. The phone banking thing was totally undercut here by GOP robo calls, those got blamed on the Dem candidates and we should have gotten out ahead of them on TV – “it isn’t us doing this”. And it was just too irritating to many voters. Way before election day, they weren’t listening anymore.
I read above some comments about door to door and precinct captaining … in my neighborhood, I canvassed and then saw a lot of the voters at the polls and I think it was effective. In the future, the Dems would do well to have block captains, stopping at every home weeks out to register and help absentee voters get ballots, invite neighbors for coffee and talk, keep going to each home until you’ve reached them, and then shepherd them to the polling place with last minute calls or a ride. People will listen to a neighbor who bothers to keep trying to reach them. It’s a lot harder to walk the block but the phone calls even made me unlist my number from the voter rolls. It seems to me that this would be far more effective than leaving answering machine messages or having strangers ring door bells.
Susan @ 137
With an observation/opinion like that… JUMP in ANYTIME !!!
Slightly OT, but does anyone know the name of the voice-over guy who did the Reagan “Morning in America” back in 1984? I have only heard him doing Republican voiceovers over the years (did some Anti-Gov Doyle spots in WI last month) and never a Dem spot. He also does some of the Miller ads – “That’s the Highlife” series; where they guy eats a donut with greasy fingers; watches the neighbor backing n a trailer; etc.
2 sellouts. Nice.
That was great. I’ve been in radio for 30 years; loved it.
kemo @ 131
Alright, don’t take my word for it. See what Taylor says here, about Murtha’s ear.
I am a voice artist, and I listened to this story with amusement. I am not on the level of either of the men in the story, but I have been asked to voice political ads this season and in previous years.
It is remarkably difficult to take yourself out of what you are doing and just “do the job.” Checking one’s politics at the studio door is part of the job, of course. But one of the first political ads i ever voiced made it very difficult indeed.
My contact called and asked would I do a radio spot for a Republican candidate in Birmingham, AL. She repeatedly told me “You do NOT have to do this.” However in this business, you rarely turn down work, because they WILL go to someone else. I hemmed and hawed for a bit, then decided it was better to not leave that money on the table. So I sucked it up and went to the studio.
The ad I was asked to voice was just what you would think. Nasty, negative, gay-baiting, you name it. And the most foul feeling was having the client urge me on to make it sound every bit as nasty as it was written.
I usually try to get copies of everything I do….but that one, I let slide. I needed a shower after that anyway….