Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Whoo boy.

-GSD

Mike Allen of Time Magazine, the new Judith Miller, chimes in on the Democrats.

“Hoyer poses a competing power base to Pelosi, and they have not had warm relations. “She wants to purge the leadership of people who disagree with her,” said a Democratic official with a front-row seat. “It’s about people she can personally control. Hoyer is an excellent public face for the party. She’s more a behind-the-scenes player.”

See, Nancy is just a vindictive woman….so the new memes say.

Stainy vs. Jack.

-GSD

Jane,
I don’t think Obama bought the house “from a crook.” Rezko was not the owner of the house. Obama bought some additional adjacent slice of land from Rezko at market value (after Rezko first wanted to give him a discount, which Obama refused.) Too cozy with Rezko? Yes, but not I don’t think Obama did anything unethical or illegal.

Keep their feet to the fire, Hamsher!

Whack them all right now. Dems, ReThugs, the whole barrel. There is no excuse for prolonging it. Get it out of the way so someone can govern.
Thanks Jane.

powwow500 @
2

Jane,
I don’t think Obama bought the house “from a crook.” Rezko was not the owner of the house. Obama bought some additional adjacent slice of land from Rezko at market value (after Rezko first wanted to give him a discount, which Obama refused.) Too cozy with Rezko? Yes, but not I don’t think Obama did anything unethical or illegal.

Thank you, I updated the post to reflect that more accurately. But $300,000 below asking price? I’m sorry, that is just not my understanding of the real estate market at the present time.

Um, have you ever bought a house for the “asking price?”

Just sayin’.

FITZ!! WE WAIT!! JUSTICE!!!!!

“On the positive side, Obama is finally ready to take a position on something controversial. Good to know.”

Please give me a post when Obama takes a moral stand on somthing other than window dressing for the mainstream media. A good speaker; a hollow man.

sorry for the OT, CNN billing Joe “Me the people” Lieberman as the most powerful man in DC.

Wolf and a CNN-bot flogging the RGJoe-switch-parties story.

I did enjoy John Warner say that he’s known Joe a long time and that he’s a man of his word, and that Warner takes him at his word. Sounds like not such a warm welcome awaits across the aisle….

On the positive side, Obama is finally ready to take a position on something controversial. Good to know.

No shit! LOL…although I would obviously have liked to see him take a position on something substantial. I also agree that we need to constantly keep reminding our elected officials that they work for us…regardless of Party, and doing shady shit is NOT working for us.

Jane Hamsher @ 5

powwow500 @
2

Jane,
I don’t think Obama bought the house “from a crook.” Rezko was not the owner of the house. Obama bought some additional adjacent slice of land from Rezko at market value (after Rezko first wanted to give him a discount, which Obama refused.) Too cozy with Rezko? Yes, but not I don’t think Obama did anything unethical or illegal.

Thank you, I updated the post to reflect that more accurately. But $300,000 below asking price? I’m sorry, that is just not my understanding of the real estate market at the present time.

Ten percent off of list, maybe. Twenty? Only if the market was in freefall. Or ‘Other Factors.’

kiteinagale @
6

Um, have you ever bought a house for the “asking price?”

Just sayin’.

You’re absolutely right about that. I sold one two years ago for 30% above asking price. Thanks for the correction, you are obviously quite knowledgable about this housing market.

This kind of “special man” deal is common here in Louisiana. I don’t know why it’s tolerated here, but it should not be tolerated ANYWHERE. Elected officials work for us. Nobody else, They need to understand that.

CNN followed a freshman around on Orientation Day, and of course they picked “conservative, pro-marriage, pro-life” Brad Ellsworth, Indiana….

blergh, as our Redd sez.

Back when Obama got rolled by RGJoe & McCain, and then took it like a turtle, we wondered if there was something cooking…

I’m not an Obama fan, but isn’t it just possible that he benefited from the real estate crash? Homes at the top of the market are the first to drop and drop the farthest.

I am from Illinois and I think this is fucking disgusting.

kiteinagale @ 6

Um, have you ever bought a house for the “asking price?”

Just sayin’.

It wouldn’t be too hard to put together some analysis of asking prices and purchase prices for similar properties at that time.

Five to ten percent off, according to a friend, is normal, twenty is high unless the asking price is way out of line.

Bugger!
O/T and EPU’d. I just wanted to say;

Totally o this t, in response to the previous thread on the definition of liberalism.

“The essence of the liberal position, however, is the denial of all privilege, if privilege is understood in its proper and original meaning or the state granting and protecting rights to some which are not available on equal terms to others.”

F.A. Hayek, from the preface of the 1956 edition of “The Road to Serfdom”, a book that has been hijacked by the right, maligned by the left, and misunderstood by both, IMO.

Because I think it’s relevant to the overarching debate.

Alice Marshall @ 17

I’m not an Obama fan, but isn’t it just possible that he benefited from the real estate crash? Homes at the top of the market are the first to drop and drop the farthest.

We need data. Data are available. Volunteers?

egregious @ 12

Jane Hamsher @ 5

powwow500 @
2

Jane,
I don’t think Obama bought the house “from a crook.” Rezko was not the owner of the house. Obama bought some additional adjacent slice of land from Rezko at market value (after Rezko first wanted to give him a discount, which Obama refused.) Too cozy with Rezko? Yes, but not I don’t think Obama did anything unethical or illegal.

Thank you, I updated the post to reflect that more accurately. But $300,000 below asking price? I’m sorry, that is just not my understanding of the real estate market at the present time.

Ten percent off of list, maybe. Twenty? Only if the market was in freefall. Or ‘Other Factors.’

Chicago market has been overheated since 2002 or a bit earlier. People have been paying above list in the city for really desirable properties. Unless a serious flaw was discovered on inspection, no one would discount that heavily.

Jane Hamsher @
5

powwow500 @
2

Jane,
I don’t think Obama bought the house “from a crook.” Rezko was not the owner of the house. Obama bought some additional adjacent slice of land from Rezko at market value (after Rezko first wanted to give him a discount, which Obama refused.) Too cozy with Rezko? Yes, but not I don’t think Obama did anything unethical or illegal.

Thank you, I updated the post to reflect that more accurately. But $300,000 below asking price? I’m sorry, that is just not my understanding of the real estate market at the present time.

As far as “asking price” goes, half the houses for sale here in Savannah are marked “price reduced.” Asking is not necessarily getting. But, on the other hand, wasn’t this Rezko guy fairly well known as a sleaze?

The temptation to bury a bribe, or just a future favor, in a transaction within our hyper-inflated urban American real estate market must be huge for all elected officials. Only a few have been caught (Dukestir comes to mind). I wonder how common this practice is, though, since it only requires one cooperative realtor and a recorder of deeds who’s smitten with the pol.

I bet they’re all quakin’ in their boots on this issue. And probably for good reason.

Doesn’t surprise me that he acted in the same self interested way that wealth and power idealize. Smart people make deals.. get deals and defined by them.

Obama… you be one of them.

these days some sellers unwilling to accept the fact that the market has cooled are setting asking prices unrealistically high. not sure that was the case in June 2005, however. back in “the day” of the Bay Area real estate boom, the common scheme was to price a house about 10% low, attracting multiple offers and generating a wild feeding frenzy of way-over-asking offers. been that, done that (both sides of the table).

We absolutely cannot let corruption creep in and infect the dems the way it did the repubs, but I don’t believe the slant of this story at face value. A property sale can go many ways for many reasons and back in ‘04, a house could be listed for well below what would be the asking price even six months later. It seems very subjective to say automatically that this reeks of corruption.

I posted a comment or two here a month or so back, pointing out that our problems in this country were systemic in our system of government itself (both sides of the isle) and how disappointed I was that nobody seemed to ever talk about those fundamental issues. Rather the mime on left-leaning blogs is always Democrats are great – Republicans are bad, just as it is the opposite on the right-leaning blogs.

I was promptly vilified here for those comments, despite the fact that I was a self-professed progressive who had donated considerable amounts to left leaning blogs and Act Blue candidates.

I now wonder, in light of this and another post here today, if my previous comments would be met with a tad less defensiveness.

Simon
Fresno

I supported Democrats not because I support them, but because they aren’t clinically insane. Also, they have a hefty percentage of decent folks on the people’s side among them. But the Dollarcrat wing of the Democrat Party still holds way too much power.

CREW has just released a [condemnation Reply

juli @ 27

We absolutely cannot let corruption creep in and infect the dems the way it did the repubs, but I don’t believe the slant of this story at face value. A property sale can go many ways for many reasons and back in ‘04, a house could be listed for well below what would be the asking price even six months later. It seems very subjective to say automatically that this reeks of corruption.

Not ‘04. June ‘05.

300,000/1,650,000 ≈ 18%

Molehill –> mountain.

Simon, the desire to wrest the nation out of the hands of criminals may hae led to election fever. I am sorry if you got caught up in that.

Jane,

I think your post November 7 posts have been spot on.

First of all, most real estate markets were hyper-inflating in June 2005. Those price-reduced signs are NEW in most markets — and were not a sign of the times in June 2005. Second, until the peak was reached recently, bidding UNDER asking price was incredibly difficult — you couldn’t find a realtor to carry the offer, since most offers were gonna be 10-30% ABOVE market.

Now, you’ll say my experience is based on SanFran and NoVa, which is true, which goes to my third set of points: real estate markets are very local, timing is everything, and the market for a particular strip of land bordering only two properties is VERY limited.

Data, please.

Considering I was the one who bestowed the name “Hojo” on Lieberman (short for “Holy Joe”),

I believe it is my duty to now bestow the name “Hobama” on Mr. Obama.

Short for Holy Obama.

Hojo was Hobama’s mentor, after all.

Hojo apparently taught Hobama the refined art of being simultaneously annoyingly sanctimonious (including a presumptuous air of religious superiority) and morally hypocritical.

So he got the house for 300K less than the asking price, which would be about 15% off assuming it was priced originally at 1,950,000.

Could have been a motivated seller, or a slow market, or an unrealistically high price to begin with.

Now if he got the place for half-off or something like that, absolutely. But for now, I’d be willing to wait to learn more.

I’m no fan of Obama – in fact, I’m pretty much the opposite – but this story seems like pretty thin gruel. Aside from falling real estate values on high-priced properties, two other factors bear looking at: the fact that the seller had two properties he wanted to unload at the same time and whether or not Obama used his “new-found” wealth to either pay in cash, or with a substantial down-payment.

I can’t emphasize enought that I really don’t like Obama, but I think a little more investigating is needed here before we bring out the torches and pitchforks.

From http://www.wildonions.org:

Kenwood Go to: Facts – See What’s Here

Once a well-to-do mansion district and still one of Chicago’s richest troves of 19th-Century architecture, Kenwood is on its way to reviving its place as one of Chicago’s most stately neighborhoods. Largely African-American, Kenwood, somewhat like Hyde Park to its south, stands apart from more economically disadvantaged areas all around it, although it has had its own share of hardship in the past few decades. Today home values are way up as Kenwood rediscovers its prestigious history.

This is where Obama lives.

*xyz @ 35

Considering I was the one who bestowed the name “Hojo” on Lieberman (short for “Holy Joe”),

I believe it is my duty to now bestow the name “Hobama” on Mr. Obama.

Short for Holy Obama.

Hojo was Hobama’s mentor, after all.

Hojo apparently taught Hobama the refined art of being simultaneously annoyingly sanctimonious (including a presumptuous air of religious superiority) and morally hypocritical.

Okay, as per Bob’s comments and other comments here, I will not pass judgment as to whether Obama is morally hypocritical. There could be mitigating circumstances regarding his property that we don’t know about. However, he still deserves the title “Hobama” for his attitude of religious and moral superiority coupled with his chiding attitude toward the rest of the Democratic party.

http://www.latimes.com/news/po…..-headlines

Reid’s interest in the Arizona land dates back more than 20 years and, according to his staff, has been a long-running headache. He paid about $150,000 for 100 acres of the Bullhead City parcel, and his longtime friend Clair Haycock bought the remaining 60 acres for $90,000.

Californians who bought the property from the two in the early 1990s defaulted on a $1.3-million note and returned the land to Reid and Haycock.

In early 2002, Haycock sold out to Reid for $10,000, or about $166 an acre.

At the time, the Mohave County assessor valued the entire parcel at $339,620, or more than $2,000 an acre.

The low price resulted from Haycock’s need to sell and Reid’s lack of interest in buying, the two men said.

The investment “had been a losing proposition for about a decade running,” Reid’s staff said.

I understanding cleaning up and knocking out those that need to go such as Jefferson LA-02 but what about being inocent until proven guilty?
I feel that I am in the middle of the circular firing sqad.

no (fucking) tolerance, period

Now, y’all, don’t miss Ken Silverstein’s feature article in the November Harper’s — “Barack Obama, Inc. – The Birth of a Washington Machine.”

Not on-line… so, you’re gonna have to pay to get your fingers dirty, and read collateral information you weren’t anticipating.

Bought a house for a cool 1.65 mil and then paid tens of thousands for a tiny strip of land? Now there’s a real man of the people. I mean, I can relate, can’t you? I don’t know where my next million is coming from.

He’s a corporate Democrat–a suck-up to the sharks on Wall Street–just like his mentor, HoJo.

Maybe this will make him think twice about the Presidency. I think Obama was getting way too ahead of himself. Someone said earlier, good speaker, hollow man. That’s a good description.

katymine @
40

I understanding cleaning up and knocking out those that need to go such as Jefferson LA-02 but what about being inocent until proven guilty?
I feel that I am in the middle of the circular firing sqad.

No, just a general announcement that this is not going to be a case of “meet the new boss, same as the old.”

You draw the line now or it only gets worse. Both Obama and Reid might be innocent as lambs, but the idea that we won’t care just because they’re “our” guys is just not a message I’m interested in telegraphing.

Hey. This seems like a total non-story, totally ginned up.

* No evidence of any payback to Rezko. If evidence of favors to Rezko comes out (for instance, if the sale of a piece of yard is at wildly inflated prices), *then* it’s a story.

* Seller insisted on selling two parcels at once — means the seller was willing to accept below asking value for the house, because he was in a hurry. Sometimes asking value is set high, as well.

Meh. 40% offf the asking price wouldn’t be exceptional for a national real estate market in a downturn, particularly at the higher end

my bet: either a) it was an innocent transaction that looked funny. or b) Obama did something smart and hired oppo research on himself before deciding to run.,

or both. which would mean he’s very smart.

i’ll be keeping my eyes and ears open for c) new crooks same as the old crooks

but i see no evidence of c) at this point.

I agree, wait for more facts;HOWEVER, I would be delighted if this took Obama out of contention for 2008. The man has got to stop being a prima donna and start being a Senator. We don’t need a Democratic McCain.

Nathanael Nerode @ 46

Hey. This seems like a total non-story, totally ginned up.

* No evidence of any payback to Rezko. If evidence of favors to Rezko comes out (for instance, if the sale of a piece of yard is at wildly inflated prices), *then* it’s a story.

I accepted the first offer I had on a condo because I wanted to move, coincidentally, from the Chicago suburbs in 2004, the same year Obama was elected. I took an offer below my asking price.

* Seller insisted on selling two parcels at once — means the seller was willing to accept below asking value for the house, because he was in a hurry. Sometimes asking value is set high, as well.

wow, you are in the zone tonight. First Harry, now Obama. Who’s next? Schumer? Hillary?
Go for Chuck, please. Or what about Boxer? Her room full of roses ended this summer in CT.

I have to say that I fully expect to have my heart broken by all politicians. I wonder which one of the new netroots crop of Senators and Congressmen will be the first to vote for some G-d awful shit.

I’m from Illinois, and attended more than one fundraiser for Barak right after he won the primary. I even got to shake his hand. I was witness to his increadible speaking power and the way he held the audience in the palm of his hand. Rezko is pure scum, of the bipartisan Illinois variety, and Barak should have known better than to have his name in the same sentence as this guy.

Jane Hamsher @ 45

katymine @
40

I understanding cleaning up and knocking out those that need to go such as Jefferson LA-02 but what about being inocent until proven guilty?
I feel that I am in the middle of the circular firing sqad.

No, just a general announcement that this is not going to be a case of “meet the new boss, same as the old.”

You draw the line now or it only gets worse. Both Obama and Reid might be innocent as lambs, but the idea that we won’t care just because they’re “our” guys is just not a message I’m interested in telegraphing.

I do understand and agree…. I am torn about the Majority Leader slot. I do NOT want Hoyer in that position, it will be just more of the same.

Murtha can herd the cats along to the get out of Iraq process but then there are his issues. I am afraid that if Murtha is not the majority leader we will still be in Iraq in 08. Who besides these two want the position?

Obama just got lead down the gilded path by a (cough) friend he thinks that he has to be more careful about business. No Barack you WERE SET UP DUMB ASS if you think its to good to be true IT IS!

Chris Bowers writes a funny on Why All Success Was Due to Rahm.

It is interesting whenever a politician buys property below market. One needs to know from whom it was purchased and under what conditions.

Buying an adjacent strip to add to the value is not necessarily interesting- even if it is bought from a shady character. Lots of reasons to do it- privacy buffer- additional method of ingress/egress- etc. Nothing special there that I can see- the other issue warrants some attention.

As Christy said in her earlier post, it’s all about sunshine. I have absolutly no qualms about taking Dems (or esp. I/D=R, blergh!) to task right out the gate. It is high time that the people who work for the people start being accountable to the people. They should all be operating under the assumption that any financial or conflict of interest dealings are going to come to light and prepare to accept the consequences. No we don’t have to break out the pitchforks and torches, but we have every right to expect the Dems to set the bar a little higher.

Hm. No edit. Ok for Chris Bowers on Rahm either scroll down or try Door #2 here.

Ding Ding Ding we hae a winner.

Enjoy.

Looking back at this- I see that the sale was below ASKING price- not market price. It is not clear if the adjacent lot was originally included in the asking price- if so- it would explain everything. Obama didn’t want the lot- the neighbor did- but the seller had (for some reason), to sell em both at once- so they split the deal.) At least that’s one possibility.

The big question is whether it was a willing seller and an arm’s length transaction- if so- Osama just drove a good bargain.

xyz@39 snerk!

Hobama!
Hollow man. Empty suit. Great White Hope.

ptahh! ptooey!

Received this in an email…

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Rep. Harold Ford, Jr. declared Monday he has no interest in chairing the Democratic National Committee, tamping down speculation he would challenge current chairman Howard Dean for the post.

Dean ousting story on CNN’s Situation Room. So it’s made it past the blogs and made the airwaves.

Dean responded by saying that it’s nothing more than inside the beltway silliness. And that he’s not going anywhere!

Who is the seller people is the important question? This $300,000 below asking price sale is obviously a way to disguise a campaign contrabution to Obama. So who is giving the contrabution? Also the sellar insisted that two land parcels be sold the same day below market price? The second land parcel was Rezko’s cut for making the deal happen.

Littleleroy @ 43

Bought a house for a cool 1.65 mil and then paid tens of thousands for a tiny strip of land? Now there’s a real man of the people. I mean, I can relate, can’t you? I don’t know where my next million is coming from.

He’s a corporate Democrat–a suck-up to the sharks on Wall Street–just like his mentor, HoJo.

I disagree that there is anything wrong with the amount. I do remain very interested in the circumstances.

The real estate market was still very strong nationally throughout the summer of 2005.

If people have data SPECIFICALLY for Chicago that contradicts this, let’s see it.

Like you say, Jane – this is the message, right here:

I don’t know about you, but I did not work my ass off just so a new set of Democratic crooks can set up residence across from the old GOP K-Street crooks. Corruption is corruption and it doesn’t matter the party. We’re not Republicans, and we’re not so enamored with authoritarianism that we will find any excuse to absolve people ostensibly on “our” side of the aisle from responsibility for their indescretions.

Damn straight! And I know I didn’t work nearly as hard as Jane, and this shit pisses me off. I would be livid if I had.

I work hard, hard for my money and I’ve given more in the past 6 months to the Democratic party and its affliates/satelittes or candidates that weren’t anywhere near me geographically so we COULD TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY. Not to do the same shit as before.

I have no tolerance for sleaze, R or D, but on the evidence so far I’m not convinced of wrongdoing. First the measure should not be asking price, but fair market value. Asking price is what the buyer says he or she wants and he or she may be delusional. Second a cash offer or other conditions can create a discount. I bought a house below asking in the insane bay area market because I could accommodate the needs of the sellers in a flexible way other buyers weren’t able to. Nothing crooked, it just worked out well.

Also if I read the post correctly the seller was not the alleged crook, so who cares unless the seller got some quid for his quo, of which there seems to be no evidence.

I agree that Barack, while the best speaker of our generation, is not ready for prime time, I don’t think any of this makes him a crook.

For me edit is only working if I close the window and then come back in afresh.

Gotta go do family stuff.

Jane, left a longish question about fundraising at one of your earlier posts tonight. Not urgent.

Barak is too slick for his own good, too willing to by hyped and marketed like political Pepsi.

I hate those sugary soft drinks.

Obama is all empty calories.

Jane, Definitions/Kennedy at 83, w followup a little later.

OT sort of – I heard from someone today who sells massive volumes of lumber on the national market say that it has gone completely in the shitter. this relates to construction of new homes and has an intimate tie to the health of the economy. 58,000 homes for sale in Phoenix. Something like 44% of new homes in Miami are for sale with not so much as a gentle ocean breeze to push a sale. the next 12-18 mo. could get very hairy for the economy leading into ‘08.

Muzzy @ 68

OT sort of – I heard from someone today who sells massive volumes of lumber on the national market say that it has gone completely in the shitter. this relates to construction of new homes and has an intimate tie to the health of the economy. 58,000 homes for sale in Phoenix. Something like 44% of new homes in Miami are for sale with not so much as a gentle ocean breeze to push a sale. the next 12-18 mo. could get very hairy for the economy leading into ‘08.

Yes but that’s NOW not the summer of ‘05 when the market was still overheated.

Location, location, location, but also timing.

edit note: edit worked this time.

I’ve known people who bought houses in once-nice, on there way back up neighborhoods in Chicago for below asking price. I’ve known people who bought a slice of the neighbor’s yard in Chicago. Maybe it’s nothin’. Now, if it was Orlando, or San Francisco, that would be something else.

But, Obama? Two words.
White. Water.

That turned out to be nothin’ too, but that didn’t mean it didn’t dog the crap out of Clinton for years. You’re already getting a reputation for being all triangulation-y. As you morph into the next Man From Hope, try not to add the shady land deal, too. Thanks.

although there are a number of factors to consider, anyone who bid $300K (18%) below in asking price in the DC market two years ago would have been laughed at…..

….especially when an adjacent property was sold by the same owner at list price.

Its appalling obvious that a deal was worked out between Renzi and the owner — the real question is whether Obama was aware of/participated in the arrangement.

So for the moment, I’ll reserve judgement on the question of Obama’s corruption — he’s still a spineless worm tho.

Uh. Mah. Gawd. Olbermann just said KFed-Ex is shopping around a sex tape of him and his about to be former missus. I think I’m going to be sick.

I feel like we’re trying to draw a conclusion from to little information here. According to the Sun-Times article, Obama and Rezko have known each other since college. That’s a long-standing relationship. They bought some property together. While the house Obama bought was 18 percent off, the parcel next door that Rezko’s wife bought was full price. Why?

What’s the market like in that area for high-value property? Was the property on the market for a long time? Who was the seller and what relationship, if any, did he have with the two buyers?

I’m inclined to dislike Obama anyway, so maybe I’m too inclined here to give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, disliking someone or his politics isn’t reason to assume he’s guilty of something. But I really don’t see much wrong here. More information could change that view, though.

I’m willing to reserve judgement on the crooked, but I am willing to pass judgement on the stupid. Stupid move, Senator. Go have a chat with the junior senator from New York about land deals gone awry, and the political shitstorms therefrom.

If I put my house on the market for a million six and accept a million three, is that a)a sweetheart deal b)an exuberant asking price c) the Gooper “free market” (a favor from a friend, like Santorum’s sweet-deal house in Va, not necessarily the same thing as) d) the free market, a real free market – that’s what people are willing to pay?

I agree with Obama that there are different standards and he needs to be squeaky clean. Living in LA, the housing market from hell, I’m not ready to convict him on the known facts, just yet. My neighbor has listed his house for 1.7 million and will be happy to get a million one. Just sayin’.

shorter – Obama discovers folks will picket his fence and they may draw attention to barbed wire deals.

ok back to punaise school of fine punstards.

If Barack wants my house, he’s paying my damned asking price.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 5:28 pm (#71)

Uh. Mah. Gawd. Olbermann just said KFed-Ex is shopping around a sex tape of him and his about to be former missus. I think I’m going to be sick.

Proving once again that there are worse fates than being alone.

Freshman Dem Nancy Boyda got an “orientation” Countdown clip re: ethics (paraphrase) We don’t want to make any innocent mistakes. We need to know what all the rules are.

Yay, new Dems!!

petedownunder
“Barack not ready for prime time…” Agree wholeheartedly.
What has he accomplished that the MSM were willing to push him as a contender in ‘08?
Nadda!
I hate to sound stupid here, but where is all this information coming from all of a sudden?
When Jane and Christy write about it, I know that it has been vetted by their high standards, but where is the source? I suspect the Repub. slime machine is cranking up into high gear.

Mommas, don’t let your sons grow up to be sex-tapers.

If anyone has the physical street address and the county it shouldn’t be hard to dig around and look at some numbers, dates, neighbors, neighborhood etc. It should be available on-line at the appropriate appraisal or tax district etc.

Oh Christy that is disgusting!

Want a mandate? Want to keep a mandate? Don’t just look clean – Be Clean.
I would hate to start off the new term with the nation wondering when Dems will start to drop…
There are plenty of short and long-term ramifications. We need a big broom immediately.

egregious @ 60 – wrt Obama, summer of ‘05 would be peculiar for a sweetheart real estate deal, especially in a high demand neighborhood.

But just looking ahead in general, even here in Portland,OR where real estate costs lag behind all other metro west coast cities and where we have a nice urban growth boundary to prevent overdevelopment, houses are staying on the market a lot longer in my neighborhood. Some of the asking prices suddenly seem laughable.

Quick response to my Massa coin today:

Teddy,

Thank you very much for your support and for your words of encouragement. We plan to do everything we can to ensure that all ballots are reviewed, and that all votes are counted correctly.
We have a team of lawyers throughout New York’s 29th Congressional District that have lent their services to the campaign to help ensure a fair election. The group is led by the Democratic Lawyers’ Council out of New York City, but as of now we are not getting assistance directly from the DNC.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

way way way OT, and a repeat from Late Nite, but I wanted to share this tidbit-o-snark from SF Chronicle’s Mark Morford, celebrating the demise of Santorum:

Ricky’s voting record is the ethical equivalent of a pie full of nails left over from the “Passion of the Christ” bake sale.

Apple Canyon 2 @ 5:33 pm (#79)

I hate to sound stupid here, but where is all this information coming from all of a sudden?
When Jane and Christy write about it, I know that it has been vetted by their high standards, but where is the source? I suspect the Repub. slime machine is cranking up into high gear.

You’re right to be suspicious. It’s possible someone’s slime machine has been working on this, and I don’t think you can limit the suspects to Republicans. Folks have been talking about him as a Presidential candidate, and after how Hillary Clinton slimed Kerry after the “lack of education gets you stuck in Iraq” thing I’m not prepared to let Obama’s rivals off the hook, either.

It might help if the press had determined from independent real estate sources what the fair market value of the property was at the time of sale, and if such properties were in demand in a way that normal real estate practices would have caused it to sell–at that time–above the asking price.

As housing markets overheat, and available mortgage cash increases, it’s very common for bidding wars to ensue, and in hot real estate markets, for properties to sell well above initial asking prices. That sort of strikes me as the situation at the time of sale. That’s why some determination of the fair market value at the time seems to be an essential point missing from this story.

Well if you want no fucking tolerance, you better go to a Quaker Meeting…haven’t we all known forever that most everyone who hangs around the beltway is tainted and compromised? In my book, it is about “how much” and having some kind of line a liberal draws in the dust and says, no, I won’t go there. A bit of honor among theives.
We can expect better but from some, we will absolutely not get it.

Sunshine.

Let it all come out.

Transparency.

Reveal everything.

Tell.

It’s the only hope for America.

So what did he learn from the Rezko transactions? Obama said, “One of the things you purchase in public life is that there are going to be a different set of standards, and I’m going to make sure from this point on I don’t even come close to the line.”

This is a tacit admission. Kenwood is a very prestigious neighborhood, and I doubt property in that neighborhood would ever sell for lower than the asking price, especially as areas just north of Kenwood are now heavily gentrified. And Rezko is the hight of sleeze in Illinois politics, or at least this is what I learned in a quick Google search. That he would have Rezko, who is obviously a friend, purchase vacant property, and very expensive vacant property, next to his home so he could purchase it from him as funds would become available reveals to me that there is more to this deal that we do not know. This is the equivalent of having Abramoff purchase property next to a mansion, and Kenwood is full of mansions, so that one can eventually purchase the Abramoff property as funds became available. If I were an investigative reporter, I would want details on the Obama-Rezko relationship in 2005 and in 2006.

“This is the first time this has happened and I don’t like the feeling,” Obama said. “It’s frustrating to me, and I’m kicking myself about it.”

Why is he “kicking” himself? Again, it is an admission of guilt, and unless he plans on moving or buying the remaining property, he will remain tainted by this questionable exchange. But he clearly knew what he was doing. Only know does he “kick” himself for what he knew was a major error.

Again, he admitted he erred. This prompts me to think he is guilty of a questionable real estate exchange in a neighborhood where homes are a lot more expensive than the price he paid, and it leads me to believe that there are many more layers to peel before we truly know what he and Rezko have in common.

Seeing W speak at the groundbreaking of the King memorial, I realize he cannot pronounce the word “conscience.” He has never said it correctly.

Perhaps there’s a reason.

I’m not taking sides on this issue, but it is interesting to note that the question of whether or not Obama did something wrong is hotly debated here, yet Dick Cheney can shoot someone in the face and their side of the aisle closes ranks and insists too much is being made of the event. Accepting these differing styles as a given, how can we turn ours to an advantage, whatever the issue? Can our open dialog in forums like this lead to better-prepared spokespersons by anticipating critical questions?

Just looking for a silver lining.

Corruption is corruption and it doesn’t matter the party.

Obama thinks that a house purchased for $300,000 below asking price and a land deal with a shady character is only an issue because he’s in public life?

I live in San Diego County…Congressional District 50 should remind Obama of how things fall apart.

Lynn Sweet is not a GOP operative. There is enogh here that doesn’t pass the smell test that it is a legitimate source of inquiry.

1,333 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Hamsher:

YOU GO GIRL!! Even if it costs the Senate majority for two years we gotta crush the next generation of Liebermans before they ken procreate. In addition, I have been sayin’ all along that the battle to sanitize the Democratic Party from the DLCers and the fascist enablers is most pressing right now…if we don’t win that battle, the ‘08 election won’t mean ANYthin.

Even though Nancy Pelosi ain’t my first choice at the dance, she’s tough as nails and has mosta the right values (her Catholic angst over abortion not withstanding)and she doesn’t have much ta chose from with regard to those who are runnin’ for leadership behind ‘er…she needs our support in her efforts to negotiate the reefs here. If she ken get Murtha as her backup, she ken control ‘im and he’s gunna be tough for the “blue dog” Rahm stooges to get past. If Pelosi gets Murtha she has a whole BOATLOAD a good committee chairs ta count on and the Clintonistas and the corporatists will hafta cultivate the Senate manure pile ta get their mushrooms.

Harry Reid needs ta step down right now and give Mrs. Clinton sumpthin ta do instead of runnin’ fer president. The depth of the corruption of the entire political establishment since 1992 is frightenin’ and the netroots. extra-party forces like Move-On and a few good people like Fiengold, Gore and the House Democratic committee chairs are all we got with which ta clean up the mess.

KEEP THE FAITH AND THE AMMUNITION COMIN’…THERE ARE A LOTTA BAD GUYS OUT THERE!!!

Christy Hardin Smith @
72

Uh. Mah. Gawd. Olbermann just said KFed-Ex is shopping around a sex tape of him and his about to be former missus. I think I’m going to be sick.

So much for the air tight pre nup.

Inital shot fired in the Prez 2008 campaign. Now Obama and Hillary both have “land deal” issues.

Its gonna take more than this, though I agree that any shady dealing need light cast on them.

Nov 2004 going into the winter there was a decent amount of talk about the housing bubble burst – so buying a house under list price does not necessarily mean anything, especially if the price was inflated anyway (and who the hell knows with the crazy house prices these/those days).

The part with that shady fellow sounds worse, though both issues could be shady.

Anyway this aint gonna get me to change my vote from Obama.

=========================

OT:

I saw the anti Net Nutrality ad again they play it during TDS (or re-runs). It is funded by the telecoms and says Net Nutrality is a bunch of “mumbo-jumbo” by net mogules in Hollywood that mean we pay more…. this shit has to be answered with facts, and it needs to be clear before the fact that they party, and the people who try to put this through will lose 2 generations of voters. People have to be pre-educated as the other side is showing they have already started.

twolf1 @ 9

sorry for the OT, CNN billing Joe “Me the people” Lieberman as the most powerful man in DC.

Clinton, Schumer, Reid, Obama, et al asked for this. They allowed Joe to set the rules of the game. They made their bed now they can lie in it.

All they had to do this fall was to show Lamont a modicum of support and stop Lieberman from claiming that he would have seniority. If they had supported the Dem primary winner in CT, they (we) wouldn’t be in this situation.

Idiots.

Speaking as Obama’s constitutent, he’s one of my least favorite elected officials. I’d like to see his big ego deflated and the shine taken off his halo. Too many people here (in Illinois) haven’t been paying attention to him and it doesn’t help with Oprah cheerleading him.

On its face the house purchase looks questionable, but there could be an explanation.

What hasn’t gotten enough attention is this:

“She’s terrific,” added Michael Riordan, who was president of the hospital in March 2005, when Michelle Obama was promoted to vice president for external affairs and had her annual salary increased from $121,910 to $316,962.

tuneforg @ 60

Who is the seller people is the important question? This $300,000 below asking price sale is obviously a way to disguise a campaign contrabution to Obama. So who is giving the contrabution? Also the sellar insisted that two land parcels be sold the same day below market price? The second land parcel was Rezko’s cut for making the deal happen.

I am irresistably reminded of the opening salvos of Whitewater.

Obama didn’t buy below market value, he bought 15% below asking price. I’ve never in my life bought property at asking price…outside of California, it’s normal for people to offer about 20% under asking price, and negotiate up a bit from there, depending on how motivated the seller is.

If there’s any chicanery here, I suspect it’s in Renzo buying the second lot at the same time; clearly the seller wasn’t going to take Obama’s offer for the house unless he could find someone to buy the adjacent lot. Did Renzo pay a fair price for the other lot? Was it asking price or 15% below?

As for Harry Reid’s Bullhead City property, it looks to me like he tried to sell it 15 years ago, and the buyers defaulted. I’d bet, though I don’t know for sure, that the property has been on the market ever since, with no takers. His partner bailed out at a loss.

Been trying to figure this out since the week before last when it first broke. I think I’m getting it. The property was for sale for $2.575 mil TOTAL. $300,000 off the package seems reasonable. Obama couldn’t afford the entire package, so the discount is loaded into his end of the deal. Friend Rezko with $$ agrees to buy the land part of the package at full boat and sit on it til Obama can afford to buy. That’s why they had to close the same day. Seller wanted to sell as single parcel. Not really nefarious, but certainly dancing close to the edge.

I am sure Oprah will direct him to the correct attorney’s – No need to worry, it will al be taken care of – one way or another.

Cujo359 @ 88,
You make some very good points on that one.
The Kerry thing made me sick just before the election and then Hil piling on at just the right moment well…
Also, as long as we are in that galaxy, what about the recent attack on Howard Dean by that
ragin’ cajun James Carville.
That was also said to benefit Hillary.
I was not a “Deaniac” sp. but if Howard goes, then my money and time will go the Independent route for sure.
Thanks for helping me see beyond the Repubs.

For the record that is 18% off list price.

300,000
1,650,000

From last thread…

Do I remember correctly that a few months ago there was talk of making Hillary Majority Leader in order to keep her from running for prez?

gleex @ 105

For the record that is 18% off list price.

300,000
1,650,000

If he paid $1.65 mil and got it for $300 off asking, the asking would have been 1.950 and $300K is just over 15% of 1.95 Mil.l

I would highly recommend the cover article in the November Harper’s about Obama.

It is aptly titled “Buying Barack Obama – The Birth of a Washington Machine”

Okay – so Hill hit Kerry before the election. Is Obama hit number 2? Are we going to see potential Dem presidential candidates drop like flies to clear the way for Hill?

This is a great discussion to have. FDL demonstrates its unique value once again.

CREW has come out against Murtha, and that gives me pause about supporting him. Since corruption showed up so prominently in the exit polls, this makes me lean more towards Hoyer, who I dislike.

Hopefully, Pelosi comes through with her promises of transparency.

for dab:

IDiots they are, with a capital ID for Independent Democrat.

Thanks, National Dems. Pottery Barn rule!

And if its June ‘05 the summer months are more active for real estate, but I think some of the cooling had started to take place. Not a justification, its just that my post above thought is was winter ‘04 people were talking about.

If it were this year I would say anyone who did not get 20% off is an idiot – but June 2005 is not this year.

I hope it’s not a case of the establishment installing Team B.

Drain the swamp and include all sludge.

1,333 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

lectric lady:

You are correct…Mrs. Clinton put the idea of a Clinton Senate leadership out there jest after Reid’s first land deal broke the news cycle. Considerin’ that she is the only DEMOCRATIC Party office holder who has any leverage over Lieberman, I think we’re lookin’ at Senator Clinton as Senate leader.

KEEP THE FAITH, SOMETIMES YA GOTTA GIVE THE PIGS SOME SUGAR BEETS TA GET ‘EM OUTTA THE GARDEN AND BACK INTA THE PEN!!

Good point on the math, and true. 15%, basically sounds like he wanted 15% off and got it.

June 2005 around here and I would not have paid list.

Most real estate agents to not want people to ask more than 10% off – for whatever that is worth.

If that were all its a non-issue to -me-.

Question is did he ask for the price and get it fairly and think what a great negotiator he was, or did the person give it to him due to what he was (powerful), or did they plan it (fraud).

I’m having a hard time seeing any real scandal in this… I’m not saying it couldn’t stand some investigative sniffing, but I’m not seeing how Rezko figures into this as being anything more than Obama’s neighbor.

Does Rezko have some hold over the person who sold the property?

Obama got a good deal on a house…and there could be any number of reasons why…ranging from perfectly legitimate (motivated seller with other priorities, anxious/ in a hurry to sell to a serious buyer– even in ‘hot’ markets, $1.65 million houses don’t get snapped up overnight– to fishy.

But Rezko didn’t sell him the property, just bought some nearby. And people buy property from their neighbors all the time…where else are they going to buy it from if they want to expand their own lot?

Like a previous commenter said, unless and until there’s a whole lot more substantiation of something wrong, this is the thinnest of thin gruels to try and feed a scandal on, and I can’t see the point of the hysterics over it.

Since it seems to be on topic, I’m gonna take this opportunity to expand on a comment I posted here on November 11th…

Personally, I’d like to see BlueAmerica use some of it’s influence to keep wayward Dems in line. Perhaps listing all Dems coming up for reelection in 2008 and giving them a “Lamont Score” based on degree of support for progressive causes, avoidance of K Street coziness, and perhaps one other measure. Those with low scores would be targeted for a primary challenge with funding from BlueAmerica. Of course there may not be a progressive candidate to take the incumbent on but the threat alone might induce some behavior modification.

The third measure mentioned above should be how well the politician avoided using his/her position to achieve some sort of sweetheart deal or in some other way reflecting poorly on the Democratic party.

In my opinion it’s too soon to pass judgment on Obama and Reid but I will mention Albert Wynn (D-MD) who should wake up and smell the coffee given how closely Donna Edwards came to defeating him in the Democratic primary.

As I said before, I realize that there may not be a progressive candidate willing to take on a well established incumbent with a poor “Lamont score”. But a politician with a poor “Lamont Score” should understand that he/she is being flagged for a primary challenge with funding support by ActBlue. The Lamont victory in the Connecticut primary and the Edwards near-victory in the Maryland primary should be sufficient to keep a few of these wavering Dems in line.

new thread

Actually, if he paid 1.65M, $300,000 below the asking price, then the asking price was 1.95. And that means he paid 15% and a bit under that asking price. I’d hesitate to rush to conviction based on that.

Looks like Petedownunder does math faster than I do!

He will likley sit out the race in ‘08 anyway, though I imagine on big factor is that is a Dem wins it means waiting 8 years after ‘08.

Out of interest with the folks that don’t like Obama…any of you want to throw out who you are considering supporting in ‘08 in the interst of disclosure?

twolf1 @ 119

new thread

Figures…. By the time I get my thoughts typed up the conversation changes. Oh well, I talk to myself all the time as it is LOL.

1,333 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

dab from CT:

Mrs. Clinton has been clearin’ the street but so have the progressives, I think Fiengold got out to consolidate progressives behind Gore…I think we’re lookin’ at Al Gore to take ‘er down. She will do the heavy liftin’ before the primaries and leave a one-on-one cage match with Al for the nomination.

KEEP THE FAITH AND YER EYES ON THE PRIZE!!!

Ron Zuber @ 110
Respectfully here.
“CREW has come out against Murtha…”
Yes, and AIPAC sp. has given Steny Hoyer their unconditional support for Majority Leader.
That too is suspicious as far as I am concerned.
I do not trust any of these BIG organizations after the K-Street mess.
The voters spoke last Tuesday, big, small, poor, rich, the votes were tallied and we won. Now everyone is trying to muscle in on the perceived “spoils” when all we want is an HONEST government we can trust to keep our interests in mind when they vote.
end of rant

gleex @
99

OT:

I saw the anti Net Nutrality ad again they play it during TDS (or re-runs). It is funded by the telecoms and says Net Nutrality is a bunch of “mumbo-jumbo” by net mogules in Hollywood that mean we pay more…. this shit has to be answered with facts, and it needs to be clear before the fact that they party, and the people who try to put this through will lose 2 generations of voters. People have to be pre-educated as the other side is showing they have already started.

We’ve been seeing that thing for months now. They’re pushing, and pushing hard. Somebody’s got to push back.

GSD @ 1

“See, Nancy is just a vindictive woman….so the new memes say.”

Yesterday the WaPo had an article about Pelosi and it described Nancy as “snapping” in response to a question. With that one word they have begun to incrementally paint her as a vicious bitch.

This sucks.

While the Harper’s Magazine article is not online yet (wait a week or two?) – there is some ancillary stuff:

A Bit More on Barack
Senator’s office criticizes Harper’s story

Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006. By Ken Silverstein.

The November issue of Harper’s Magazine is just hitting newsstands everywhere, and I’ve received quite a few comments about my story on Senator Barack Obama. That tally includes several lengthy conversations with a staffer in Obama’s office, who graciously but firmly rejected some of the article’s contentions. Late Monday, Obama’s office issued a press release that challenged parts of the story.
…

One of the great fears of the Beltway boys right now is that the netroots will upset their machine politics applecart, particularly if there’s some considerable difference in standards between the candidates coming up from the grassroots and those pushed on the electorate by the machine.

This thread and the previous one pretty much show why even the appearance of impropriety is to be avoided–when it comes to the affairs of governance. I could care less whether someone’s been divorced or not, or how many kids they have or don’t have, or what color they are, or whether they go to church, but if they’re using their political status or connections to enrich themselves or provide themselves with benefits (such as lavish travel) which their salaries wouldn’t otherwise support, I don’t want them anywhere near the public cookie jar. And why that’s still so damned difficult for politicians to understand is beyond me.

Speaking of machine politics, Country Joe and the Flounder is at it again, trying to play both sides against his middle. Hope Schumer and all the triangulators are happy with the Frankenstein monster they’ve created….

“prestigious neighborhood” property does sell for below asking price.

The fancy place up the road had a 1.3 million property on sale for the entire beginning of the year and it finally went at the end of the summer for 995,000 (below the million magic mark so you know that hurt).

There was another one on the outskirts of the fancy area that was on more of a main road and they starting asking something like 1.6, and lowered it to 1.3 (rejected an offer of 1.15, and ended up selling begining of the summer for 1 million (and that house had been on sale during June 2005).

I say this not as evidence, but don’t be fooled that gentrified neighborhoods and prestegeous ones are insulated from the housing market, far from it – they are the first/second to go (perhaps after the newly fancy areas built up during the boom)

That’s Joey the Liarmann’s ‘boy’ alright. Jes another empty suit plus….

He luvs him some Fundie NutJobs and wants us too, also…which you will see if you read the Time interview.

Nah, Obama-the-Mama is jes another garbage bag of work for us when we: ‘Take Out the Trash’.

Stay after this clown Jane.

I think all transactions public officials engage in deserve a little sunshine.
As others have suggested, the correct way to assess the situation is to look at comparable sale prices in the same period.
My neighbor up the block bought a junky Chicago ranch for $190k in 2002, fixed it up a little and asked $400k for it in 2005.
He didn’t get it. Back on the market for $350 this year and still not getting it.
Asking price is just that.
Selling prices are meaningful.
I also think that the Obama land purchase is not entirely out of line.
From my experience, speculators in resurgant neighborhoods often inflate asking prices.
And I wouldn’t throw stones at a new Senator for lending some prestige to a resurgent urban neighborhood.
He could just as easilly chosen ’safe’ suburban location.
Along with others here, my problem with Obama is that he is painted as the great black hope.
That he is not.
He may well make a decent Senator as time goes by.
And , if he lears his lesson from the appearance of impropriety here, he may be able to contiunue on.

gleex @ 6:18 pm (#129)

“prestigious neighborhood” property does sell for below asking price.

The fancy place up the road had a 1.3 million property on sale for the entire beginning of the year and it finally went at the end of the summer for 995,000 (below the million magic mark so you know that hurt).

There was another one on the outskirts of the fancy area that was on more of a main road and they starting asking something like 1.6, and lowered it to 1.3 (rejected an offer of 1.15, and ended up selling begining of the summer for 1 million (and that house had been on sale during June 2005).

I say this not as evidence, but don’t be fooled that gentrified neighborhoods and prestegeous ones are insulated from the housing market, far from it – they are the first/second to go (perhaps after the newly fancy areas built up during the boom)

One of the few things I know about real estate is that high value homes are a different market. What applies to the kinds of homes most of us buy doesn’t necessarily apply to the $2M ones.

Like I said, I need more information on this one before I’ll believe it’s a scandal.

1,333 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Cujo:

This land deal doesn’t hafta be illegal ta tell us what we need ta know about the black Lieberman…we see Obama’s sugar daddy out in the light…Bebe Rebozo anyone?

KEEP THE FAITH AND LET ‘EM ALL DANGLE ON THEIR OWN PETARD!!

Cujo359 @ 134

gleex @ 6:18 pm (#129)

“prestigious neighborhood” property does sell for below asking price.

The fancy place up the road had a 1.3 million property on sale for the entire beginning of the year and it finally went at the end of the summer for 995,000 (below the million magic mark so you know that hurt).

There was another one on the outskirts of the fancy area that was on more of a main road and they starting asking something like 1.6, and lowered it to 1.3 (rejected an offer of 1.15, and ended up selling begining of the summer for 1 million (and that house had been on sale during June 2005).

I say this not as evidence, but don’t be fooled that gentrified neighborhoods and prestegeous ones are insulated from the housing market, far from it – they are the first/second to go (perhaps after the newly fancy areas built up during the boom)

One of the few things I know about real estate is that high value homes are a different market. What applies to the kinds of homes most of us buy doesn’t necessarily apply to the $2M ones.

Like I said, I need more information on this one before I’ll believe it’s a scandal.

True and the asking price might have been completly out to lunch. It’s just an arbitrary number set by the seller

“We’re not Republicans”

that may be true of left blogostan. Its not necessarily true of democratic politicians. do get lost in projecting liberal values onto those we have to send to washington – democratics generally are only slightly less stinking than republicans.

On many issues the distinctions ARE minimal including the influence of money and power. Nevertheless, there are differences that make the fight worthwhile and necessary.
.

Don’t bring in this year’s real estate sales unless you’re sure the market isn’t cooling off in your area. We are, remember, looking at last year.

Also, the asking price is usually set high, on purpose, by people wanting to get as much money as they can. What you wnat to judge the deal by is the sale price/purchase price, and that should be available through the tax assessor and also the real estate agents – they do get this information: how else would they know what to set the prices at?

P J Evans @ 138

Don’t bring in this year’s real estate sales unless you’re sure the market isn’t cooling off in your area. We are, remember, looking at last year.

Also, the asking price is usually set high, on purpose, by people wanting to get as much money as they can. What you wnat to judge the deal by is the sale price/purchase price, and that should be available through the tax assessor and also the real estate agents – they do get this information: how else would they know what to set the prices at?

In the business I’m in your asking price is NEVER the real price. It’s a negotiation price, starting point. They make an offer, you come down, back and forth, and you meet in the middle. They think they got a deal, and I got what I wanted in the first place ; )

Littleleroy @
43

Bought a house for a cool 1.65 mil and then paid tens of thousands for a tiny strip of land? Now there’s a real man of the people. I mean, I can relate, can’t you? I don’t know where my next million is coming from.

He’s a corporate Democrat–a suck-up to the sharks on Wall Street–just like his mentor, HoJo.

Come on now. Lamont wasn’t exactly cash poor. Didn’t he buy a painting valued at over a million bucks? I don’t think we have to take these guys to task for having money.

I have a feeling we are doing the right thing for the wrong reason: going after Obama not because we are sticklers on ethics reform, but because we don’t like his rhetoric.

The connection to Rezko, which was foolish on Obama’s part, is one thing. Purchasing a house for 18% below its list price is another. To represent something so common as somehow slimy or criminal is either maliciously disingenuous or simply ignorant.

The seller insisted both parcels be sold at the same time – and accepts 15% below asking for the one parcel. Unless, something else is going on, this doesn’t like a problem.

Honestly, for me the thing that really upsets me is that with his first big political win and his becoming such a media darling, his ego got ahead of him and only a house worth $1.65, or the whole price of over $2 mil, would suit him.

Is that hubris or what? Can’t regular people live in $1 mill houses anymore? Cripe. He has worked hard and done well, but why go for the big bucks right off.

Joe L. really was his mentor in both personal as well as political business.

Jane, excellent rip of Obama. I’m already tired of this annointed poster boy.

He should publicly beat the shit out of anyone pimping him for the democratic nomination for president.

That MIGHT give him back a little street-cred with the rank and file.

A couple of comments to add:

I’ll never see one, but in Chicago, $1.65 million is not that extravangant a house, especially in that neighborhood.

Obama served 7 years in the Illinois State Senate. State government in Illinois is pretty sleazy on both sides. A lot of Democrats (me included) held their noses voting for the incumbent Democratic governor last week. That’s not to say that Obama is sleazy, but just about everyone you associate with politically in Illinois has some type of shady past and it is easy to forget that when you develop associations and friendships.

Am I the only one out here confused? The Democrats have had a tenuous one-vote majority in the Senate for less than a week, and FDL has attacked two Democratic Senators for corruption?

Isn’t there a Republican you could put in your sights? Or some DINO? (Hadassah Lieberman’s Big Pharma client list would be far more interesting to me. Ditto the real estate activity of 49 Republican Senators.)

Or, if you want to criticize Democrats, how ’bout some lists of campaign war chests that could be sending a check to Karen Carter (LA-02) who’s running against truly corrupt William Jefferson (he of the $90,000 cash in the freezer) in a December run-off.

I don’t have any patience for the circular firing squad.

There have long been rumors of a secret Clinton love child.
I think it’s Obama.
He has Bill’s talking-head prowess and Hillary’s calculating careerism.

Interesting in that all of the ethics questions are swirling around the very sort of centrist and conservative Democrats that the GOP/Media Complex is (falsely) telling us won big-time last week.

Unless there is a smoking gun, or top gun, be careful with this one. You are talking list price here. List prices for houses, especially top end houses, are part of the negotiation strategy.

The lesson is if you need to keep your nose clean, keep all deals at arms-length (i.e., people you don’t know or synthesize the arms length by using professional advisors — and for god’s sake, get an objective professional opinion of fairness).

BTW, I have a friend who called me today because he is trying to buy a 5,000 SF house listed for $1.8m for $1.5m in a Kenwood-adjacent community. These things do actually happen.

Real estate deals. This is my professional field. Chances are that if the guy was shady, and was looking f

Check out this article from a house auction in Key West:

Before the start of the auction, Slokumb had estimated 100 people would attend the event, but more than 200 showed up, with 58 registering to bid. Many chose to hang on to their bidding cards, and those who did bid were cautious. Absent were “bidding wars” with people vying back and forth for the highest bid while the price climbs higher and higher. Instead, most were content to let the property go to someone else for a lesser “bargain.”

None of the asking prices were met. The closest bid fell $149,000 short, while bidding on the most expensive property, located at 1411-1415 South St., fell more than $2.5 million shy of the almost $6 million asking price.

Some of the properties previously had been listed on the open market, but for others, the auction was the first showing.

Victor Heymann, a broker with Resort Realty & Appraisals Inc., had one of his own properties in the auction. He said he was “somewhat disappointed” that his three-bedroom Azalea Street home appraised at $985,000 only went for $820,000.

The market is softening up, let’s hope Obama has learned his lesson.

Who set the deal up? Obviously, it was Rezko, not Obama, or Rezko wouldn’t even be part of it at all. Thats not how the rest of us buy houses. Thats the problem. He didn’t just buy a house; he’s involved in a complicated deal via someone who is a known sleazy operator. If he’s surprised that his integrity looks bad, its only because he’s become out of touch with whats normal and ordinary. This is not normal and ordinary.

His wife’s salary getting tripled looks bad and the book deal looks bad. Why are these people SOOO willing to cash in? The Obamas are greedy people; lets not hear any more about them being inspiring.

I’ve never caught more than a few minutes at a time of Oprah. I don’t get her popularity at all. But one little bit I did see was when she had the cast of Friends on and she’s telling David Schwimmer – with tears in her eyes – how much it meant to her that the show had him dating a black woman at some point. I think Oprah has a few screws loose on the subject of race. Friends was a broad comedy show about a bunch of nincompoops and she thought it was a great step forward for black people when one of the nincompoops dated someone who was black. So now she’s in love with the idea of Barak Obama running for president because he’s black.

truth @ 147

Am I the only one out here confused? The Democrats have had a tenuous one-vote majority in the Senate for less than a week, and FDL has attacked two Democratic Senators for corruption?

Isn’t there a Republican you could put in your sights? Or some DINO? (Hadassah Lieberman’s Big Pharma client list would be far more interesting to me. Ditto the real estate activity of 49 Republican Senators.)

Or, if you want to criticize Democrats, how ’bout some lists of campaign war chests that could be sending a check to Karen Carter (LA-02) who’s running against truly corrupt William Jefferson (he of the $90,000 cash in the freezer) in a December run-off.

I don’t have any patience for the circular firing squad.

Would you rather go through another Whitewater? Because unlike the popular opinion among Democratic partisans, Whitewater WAS an inappropriate business deal for a state attorney general (as Bill Clinton was at the time) and it was intended to be a sweetheart deal. Didn’t pan out that way but that was the intention. Lets hold them accountable at all times, no matter who. This land deal of Obama’s stinks on ice. Its not the way people buy houses in the normal course.

(As an aside, the thing that bothered me most about Whitewater is that the Clintons and MacDougals intended to sell those lots as “contract” land sales, which is a form of land sale that takes advantage of the least informed people. If you miss a payment, you lose your whole investment.)

Greed and corruption go hand in hand. Monetary wealth for the misuse and purchasing of power. The more money and power gained the more people strive to attain. This is another example why capitalism and democracy are inherently incompatable.

Can someone explain to me how/why a public servant, who’s only there because they were elected, gets to “ink” a book deal that profits them, personally, sufficiently to buy a multi-million dollar house.

We didn’t elect them so they could profit from their new-found fame, and if they do, then they should return that money to the taxpayers who have paid their salaries, and made them “famous.”

When they tackle ethics (yuh, right) in Congress, they’ve got to do something to eliminate, or at least limit, an elected representative’s ability to personally profit from his position by “writing” books, receiving honoraria to make speeches and the like. If they can’t make ends meet on their Congressional salaries, they ought to find another line of work.

della Rovere @
8

“On the positive side, Obama is finally ready to take a position on something controversial. Good to know.”

Please give me a post when Obama takes a moral stand on somthing other than window dressing for the mainstream media. A good speaker; a hollow man.

I sent his fundraising letter back to MoveOn (I think it was MoveOn), saying he needed to be more vocal on the positive side of GLBT rights before I’d consider responding to fundraising pleas from him. And, I meant it.

Holy shit, I should’ve learned to stay away from Hamsherland. This jump-at-the-gun half-baked hitjob is the kind of thing you sadly seem to find here. Circular firing squad my ass, this is circle jerk. Cue ‘When the Shit Hits the Fan’ from Repo Man.

Montag @ 89, notice how people here are asking questions the press should have asked before it threw out what may or may not be an ethics compromise.

I think it’s naive to explain away a sweetheart deal like this one. None of us proles would ever get $300,000 off that property. Obama’s been deified, and why wouldn’t he begin to feel ’special’? Invulnerable? Or even just a little bit greedy?

Jane is right to dog this one. We put our leaders in an insulated, privileged bubble and then wonder why they lose touch with us, the people sweating out the paychecks from week to week, hoping no one gets sick. There isn’t a waiting ambulance outside my door, though Obama’s got one in the Senate.

Nowadays my first thought when I see newly-elected Congresspeople is that they’ve won the employment lottery. And after a term or two or more, that pension will start to kick in. As a taxpayer, I take better care of them than I do of myself.