Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Whoo boy.

-GSD

Mike Allen of Time Magazine, the new Judith Miller, chimes in on the Democrats.

“Hoyer poses a competing power base to Pelosi, and they have not had warm relations. “She wants to purge the leadership of people who disagree with her,” said a Democratic official with a front-row seat. “It’s about people she can personally control. Hoyer is an excellent public face for the party. She’s more a behind-the-scenes player.”

See, Nancy is just a vindictive woman….so the new memes say.

Stainy vs. Jack.

-GSD

Jane,
I don’t think Obama bought the house “from a crook.” Rezko was not the owner of the house. Obama bought some additional adjacent slice of land from Rezko at market value (after Rezko first wanted to give him a discount, which Obama refused.) Too cozy with Rezko? Yes, but not I don’t think Obama did anything unethical or illegal.

Keep their feet to the fire, Hamsher!

Whack them all right now. Dems, ReThugs, the whole barrel. There is no excuse for prolonging it. Get it out of the way so someone can govern.
Thanks Jane.

powwow500 @
2

Jane,
I don’t think Obama bought the house “from a crook.” Rezko was not the owner of the house. Obama bought some additional adjacent slice of land from Rezko at market value (after Rezko first wanted to give him a discount, which Obama refused.) Too cozy with Rezko? Yes, but not I don’t think Obama did anything unethical or illegal.

Thank you, I updated the post to reflect that more accurately. But $300,000 below asking price? I’m sorry, that is just not my understanding of the real estate market at the present time.

Um, have you ever bought a house for the “asking price?”

Just sayin’.

FITZ!! WE WAIT!! JUSTICE!!!!!

“On the positive side, Obama is finally ready to take a position on something controversial. Good to know.”

Please give me a post when Obama takes a moral stand on somthing other than window dressing for the mainstream media. A good speaker; a hollow man.

sorry for the OT, CNN billing Joe “Me the people” Lieberman as the most powerful man in DC.

Wolf and a CNN-bot flogging the RGJoe-switch-parties story.

I did enjoy John Warner say that he’s known Joe a long time and that he’s a man of his word, and that Warner takes him at his word. Sounds like not such a warm welcome awaits across the aisle….

On the positive side, Obama is finally ready to take a position on something controversial. Good to know.

No shit! LOL…although I would obviously have liked to see him take a position on something substantial. I also agree that we need to constantly keep reminding our elected officials that they work for us…regardless of Party, and doing shady shit is NOT working for us.

Jane Hamsher @ 5

powwow500 @
2

Jane,
I don’t think Obama bought the house “from a crook.” Rezko was not the owner of the house. Obama bought some additional adjacent slice of land from Rezko at market value (after Rezko first wanted to give him a discount, which Obama refused.) Too cozy with Rezko? Yes, but not I don’t think Obama did anything unethical or illegal.

Thank you, I updated the post to reflect that more accurately. But $300,000 below asking price? I’m sorry, that is just not my understanding of the real estate market at the present time.

Ten percent off of list, maybe. Twenty? Only if the market was in freefall. Or ‘Other Factors.’

kiteinagale @
6

Um, have you ever bought a house for the “asking price?”

Just sayin’.

You’re absolutely right about that. I sold one two years ago for 30% above asking price. Thanks for the correction, you are obviously quite knowledgable about this housing market.

This kind of “special man” deal is common here in Louisiana. I don’t know why it’s tolerated here, but it should not be tolerated ANYWHERE. Elected officials work for us. Nobody else, They need to understand that.

CNN followed a freshman around on Orientation Day, and of course they picked “conservative, pro-marriage, pro-life” Brad Ellsworth, Indiana….

blergh, as our Redd sez.

Back when Obama got rolled by RGJoe & McCain, and then took it like a turtle, we wondered if there was something cooking…

I’m not an Obama fan, but isn’t it just possible that he benefited from the real estate crash? Homes at the top of the market are the first to drop and drop the farthest.

I am from Illinois and I think this is fucking disgusting.

kiteinagale @ 6

Um, have you ever bought a house for the “asking price?”

Just sayin’.

It wouldn’t be too hard to put together some analysis of asking prices and purchase prices for similar properties at that time.

Five to ten percent off, according to a friend, is normal, twenty is high unless the asking price is way out of line.

Bugger!
O/T and EPU’d. I just wanted to say;

Totally o this t, in response to the previous thread on the definition of liberalism.

“The essence of the liberal position, however, is the denial of all privilege, if privilege is understood in its proper and original meaning or the state granting and protecting rights to some which are not available on equal terms to others.”

F.A. Hayek, from the preface of the 1956 edition of “The Road to Serfdom”, a book that has been hijacked by the right, maligned by the left, and misunderstood by both, IMO.

Because I think it’s relevant to the overarching debate.

Alice Marshall @ 17

I’m not an Obama fan, but isn’t it just possible that he benefited from the real estate crash? Homes at the top of the market are the first to drop and drop the farthest.

We need data. Data are available. Volunteers?

egregious @ 12

Jane Hamsher @ 5

powwow500 @
2

Thank you, I updated the post to reflect that more accurately. But $300,000 below asking price? I’m sorry, that is just not my understanding of the real estate market at the present time.

Ten percent off of list, maybe. Twenty? Only if the market was in freefall. Or ‘Other Factors.’

Chicago market has been overheated since 2002 or a bit earlier. People have been paying above list in the city for really desirable properties. Unless a serious flaw was discovered on inspection, no one would discount that heavily.

Jane Hamsher @
5

powwow500 @
2

Jane,
I don’t think Obama bought the house “from a crook.” Rezko was not the owner of the house. Obama bought some additional adjacent slice of land from Rezko at market value (after Rezko first wanted to give him a discount, which Obama refused.) Too cozy with Rezko? Yes, but not I don’t think Obama did anything unethical or illegal.

Thank you, I updated the post to reflect that more accurately. But $300,000 below asking price? I’m sorry, that is just not my understanding of the real estate market at the present time.

As far as “asking price” goes, half the houses for sale here in Savannah are marked “price reduced.” Asking is not necessarily getting. But, on the other hand, wasn’t this Rezko guy fairly well known as a sleaze?

The temptation to bury a bribe, or just a future favor, in a transaction within our hyper-inflated urban American real estate market must be huge for all elected officials. Only a few have been caught (Dukestir comes to mind). I wonder how common this practice is, though, since it only requires one cooperative realtor and a recorder of deeds who’s smitten with the pol.

I bet they’re all quakin’ in their boots on this issue. And probably for good reason.

Doesn’t surprise me that he acted in the same self interested way that wealth and power idealize. Smart people make deals.. get deals and defined by them.

Obama… you be one of them.

these days some sellers unwilling to accept the fact that the market has cooled are setting asking prices unrealistically high. not sure that was the case in June 2005, however. back in “the day” of the Bay Area real estate boom, the common scheme was to price a house about 10% low, attracting multiple offers and generating a wild feeding frenzy of way-over-asking offers. been that, done that (both sides of the table).

We absolutely cannot let corruption creep in and infect the dems the way it did the repubs, but I don’t believe the slant of this story at face value. A property sale can go many ways for many reasons and back in ‘04, a house could be listed for well below what would be the asking price even six months later. It seems very subjective to say automatically that this reeks of corruption.

I posted a comment or two here a month or so back, pointing out that our problems in this country were systemic in our system of government itself (both sides of the isle) and how disappointed I was that nobody seemed to ever talk about those fundamental issues. Rather the mime on left-leaning blogs is always Democrats are great - Republicans are bad, just as it is the opposite on the right-leaning blogs.

I was promptly vilified here for those comments, despite the fact that I was a self-professed progressive who had donated considerable amounts to left leaning blogs and Act Blue candidates.

I now wonder, in light of this and another post here today, if my previous comments would be met with a tad less defensiveness.

Simon
Fresno

I supported Democrats not because I support them, but because they aren’t clinically insane. Also, they have a hefty percentage of decent folks on the people’s side among them. But the Dollarcrat wing of the Democrat Party still holds way too much power.

CREW has just released a [condemnation http://www.rawstory.com/news/2.....1113.html] of Pelosi’s backing of Murtha, who got an “dishonerable mention” falling short of their list of the “20 most corrupt.” Stopping Bush is only step one.

juli @ 27

We absolutely cannot let corruption creep in and infect the dems the way it did the repubs, but I don’t believe the slant of this story at face value. A property sale can go many ways for many reasons and back in ‘04, a house could be listed for well below what would be the asking price even six months later. It seems very subjective to say automatically that this reeks of corruption.

Not ‘04. June ‘05.

300,000/1,650,000 ≈ 18%

Molehill –> mountain.

Simon, the desire to wrest the nation out of the hands of criminals may hae led to election fever. I am sorry if you got caught up in that.

Jane,

I think your post November 7 posts have been spot on.

First of all, most real estate markets were hyper-inflating in June 2005. Those price-reduced signs are NEW in most markets — and were not a sign of the times in June 2005. Second, until the peak was reached recently, bidding UNDER asking price was incredibly difficult — you couldn’t find a realtor to carry the offer, since most offers were gonna be 10-30% ABOVE market.

Now, you’ll say my experience is based on SanFran and NoVa, which is true, which goes to my third set of points: real estate markets are very local, timing is everything, and the market for a particular strip of land bordering only two properties is VERY limited.

Data, please.

Considering I was the one who bestowed the name “Hojo” on Lieberman (short for “Holy Joe”),

I believe it is my duty to now bestow the name “Hobama” on Mr. Obama.

Short for Holy Obama.

Hojo was Hobama’s mentor, after all.

Hojo apparently taught Hobama the refined art of being simultaneously annoyingly sanctimonious (including a presumptuous air of religious superiority) and morally hypocritical.

So he got the house for 300K less than the asking price, which would be about 15% off assuming it was priced originally at 1,950,000.

Could have been a motivated seller, or a slow market, or an unrealistically high price to begin with.

Now if he got the place for half-off or something like that, absolutely. But for now, I’d be willing to wait to learn more.

I’m no fan of Obama - in fact, I’m pretty much the opposite - but this story seems like pretty thin gruel. Aside from falling real estate values on high-priced properties, two other factors bear looking at: the fact that the seller had two properties he wanted to unload at the same time and whether or not Obama used his “new-found” wealth to either pay in cash, or with a substantial down-payment.

I can’t emphasize enought that I really don’t like Obama, but I think a little more investigating is needed here before we bring out the torches and pitchforks.

From www.wildonions.org:

Kenwood Go to: Facts - See What’s Here

Once a well-to-do mansion district and still one of Chicago’s richest troves of 19th-Century architecture, Kenwood is on its way to reviving its place as one of Chicago’s most stately neighborhoods. Largely African-American, Kenwood, somewhat like Hyde Park to its south, stands apart from more economically disadvantaged areas all around it, although it has had its own share of hardship in the past few decades. Today home values are way up as Kenwood rediscovers its prestigious history.

This is where Obama lives.

*xyz @ 35

Considering I was the one who bestowed the name “Hojo” on Lieberman (short for “Holy Joe”),

I believe it is my duty to now bestow the name “Hobama” on Mr. Obama.

Short for Holy Obama.

Hojo was Hobama’s mentor, after all.

Hojo apparently taught Hobama the refined art of being simultaneously annoyingly sanctimonious (including a presumptuous air of religious superiority) and morally hypocritical.

Okay, as per Bob’s comments and other comments here, I will not pass judgment as to whether Obama is morally hypocritical. There could be mitigating circumstances regarding his property that we don’t know about. However, he still deserves the title “Hobama” for his attitude of religious and moral superiority coupled with his chiding attitude toward the rest of the Democratic party.

http://www.latimes.com/news/po.....-headlines

Reid’s interest in the Arizona land dates back more than 20 years and, according to his staff, has been a long-running headache. He paid about $150,000 for 100 acres of the Bullhead City parcel, and his longtime friend Clair Haycock bought the remaining 60 acres for $90,000.

Californians who bought the property from the two in the early 1990s defaulted on a $1.3-million note and returned the land to Reid and Haycock.

In early 2002, Haycock sold out to Reid for $10,000, or about $166 an acre.

At the time, the Mohave County assessor valued the entire parcel at $339,620, or more than $2,000 an acre.

The low price resulted from Haycock’s need to sell and Reid’s lack of interest in buying, the two men said.

The investment “had been a losing proposition for about a decade running,” Reid’s staff said.

I understanding cleaning up and knocking out those that need to go such as Jefferson LA-02 but what about being inocent until proven guilty?
I feel that I am in the middle of the circular firing sqad.

no (fucking) tolerance, period

Now, y’all, don’t miss Ken Silverstein’s feature article in the November Harper’s — “Barack Obama, Inc. - The Birth of a Washington Machine.”

Not on-line… so, you’re gonna have to pay to get your fingers dirty, and read collateral information you weren’t anticipating.

Bought a house for a cool 1.65 mil and then paid tens of thousands for a tiny strip of land? Now there’s a real man of the people. I mean, I can relate, can’t you? I don’t know where my next million is coming from.

He’s a corporate Democrat–a suck-up to the sharks on Wall Street–just like his mentor, HoJo.

Maybe this will make him think twice about the Presidency. I think Obama was getting way too ahead of himself. Someone said earlier, good speaker, hollow man. That’s a good description.

katymine @
40

I understanding cleaning up and knocking out those that need to go such as Jefferson LA-02 but what about being inocent until proven guilty?
I feel that I am in the middle of the circular firing sqad.

No, just a general announcement that this is not going to be a case of “meet the new boss, same as the old.”

You draw the line now or it only gets worse. Both Obama and Reid might be innocent as lambs, but the idea that we won’t care just because they’re “our” guys is just not a message I’m interested in telegraphing.

Hey. This seems like a total non-story, totally ginned up.

* No evidence of any payback to Rezko. If evidence of favors to Rezko comes out (for instance, if the sale of a piece of yard is at wildly inflated prices), *then* it’s a story.

* Seller insisted on selling two parcels at once — means the seller was willing to accept below asking value for the house, because he was in a hurry. Sometimes asking value is set high, as well.

Meh. 40% offf the asking price wouldn’t be exceptional for a national real estate market in a downturn, particularly at the higher end

my bet: either a) it was an innocent transaction that looked funny. or b) Obama did something smart and hired oppo research on himself before deciding to run.,

or both. which would mean he’s very smart.

i’ll be keeping my eyes and ears open for c) new crooks same as the old crooks

but i see no evidence of c) at this point.

I agree, wait for more facts;HOWEVER, I would be delighted if this took Obama out of contention for 2008. The man has got to stop being a prima donna and start being a Senator. We don’t need a Democratic McCain.

Nathanael Nerode @ 46

Hey. This seems like a total non-story, totally ginned up.

* No evidence of any payback to Rezko. If evidence of favors to Rezko comes out (for instance, if the sale of a piece of yard is at wildly inflated prices), *then* it’s a story.

I accepted the first offer I had on a condo because I wanted to move, coincidentally, from the Chicago suburbs in 2004, the same year Obama was elected. I took an offer below my asking price.

* Seller insisted on selling two parcels at once — means the seller was willing to accept below asking value for the house, because he was in a hurry. Sometimes asking value is set high, as well.

wow, you are in the zone tonight. First Harry, now Obama. Who’s next? Schumer? Hillary?
Go for Chuck, please. Or what about Boxer? Her room full of roses ended this summer in CT.

I have to say that I fully expect to have my heart broken by all politicians. I wonder which one of the new netroots crop of Senators and Congressmen will be the first to vote for some G-d awful shit.

I’m from Illinois, and attended more than one fundraiser for Barak right after he won the primary. I even got to shake his hand. I was witness to his increadible speaking power and the way he held the audience in the palm of his hand. Rezko is pure scum, of the bipartisan Illinois variety, and Barak should have known better than to have his name in the same sentence as this guy.

Jane Hamsher @ 45

katymine @
40

I understanding cleaning up and knocking out those that need to go such as Jefferson LA-02 but what about being inocent until proven guilty?
I feel that I am in the middle of the circular firing sqad.

No, just a general announcement that this is not going to be a case of “meet the new boss, same as the old.”

You draw the line now or it only gets worse. Both Obama and Reid might be innocent as lambs, but the idea that we won’t care just because they’re “our” guys is just not a message I’m interested in telegraphing.

I do understand and agree…. I am torn about the Majority Leader slot. I do NOT want Hoyer in that position, it will be just more of the same.

Murtha can herd the cats along to the get out of Iraq process but then there are his issues. I am afraid that if Murtha is not the majority leader we will still be in Iraq in 08. Who besides these two want the position?

Obama just got lead down the gilded path by a (cough) friend he thinks that he has to be more careful about business. No Barack you WERE SET UP DUMB ASS if you think its to good to be true IT IS!

Chris Bowers writes a funny on Why All Success Was Due to Rahm.

It is interesting whenever a politician buys property below market. One needs to know from whom it was purchased and under what conditions.

Buying an adjacent strip to add to the value is not necessarily interesting- even if it is bought from a shady character. Lots of reasons to do it- privacy buffer- additional method of ingress/egress- etc. Nothing special there that I can see- the other issue warrants some attention.

As Christy said in her earlier post, it’s all about sunshine. I have absolutly no qualms about taking Dems (or esp. I/D=R, blergh!) to task right out the gate. It is high time that the people who work for the people start being accountable to the people. They should all be operating under the assumption that any financial or conflict of interest dealings are going to come to light and prepare to accept the consequences. No we don’t have to break out the pitchforks and torches, but we have every right to expect the Dems to set the bar a little higher.

Hm. No edit. Ok for Chris Bowers on Rahm either scroll down or try Door #2 here.

Ding Ding Ding we hae a winner.

Enjoy.

Looking back at this- I see that the sale was below ASKING price- not market price. It is not clear if the adjacent lot was originally included in the asking price- if so- it would explain everything. Obama didn’t want the lot- the neighbor did- but the seller had (for some reason), to sell em both at once- so they split the deal.) At least that’s one possibility.

The big question is whether it was a willing seller and an arm’s length transaction- if so- Osama just drove a good bargain.

xyz@39 snerk!

Hobama!
Hollow man. Empty suit. Great White Hope.

ptahh! ptooey!

Received this in an email…

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Rep. Harold Ford, Jr. declared Monday he has no interest in chairing the Democratic National Committee, tamping down speculation he would challenge current chairman Howard Dean for the post.

Dean ousting story on CNN’s Situation Room. So it’s made it past the blogs and made the airwaves.

Dean responded by saying that it’s nothing more than inside the beltway silliness. And that he’s not going anywhere!

Who is the seller people is the important question? This $300,000 below asking price sale is obviously a way to disguise a campaign contrabution to Obama. So who is giving the contrabution? Also the sellar insisted that two land parcels be sold the same day below market price? The second land parcel was Rezko’s cut for making the deal happen.

Littleleroy @ 43

Bought a house for a cool 1.65 mil and then paid tens of thousands for a tiny strip of land? Now there’s a real man of the people. I mean, I can relate, can’t you? I don’t know where my next million is coming from.

He’s a corporate Democrat–a suck-up to the sharks on Wall Street–just like his mentor, HoJo.

I disagree that there is anything wrong with the amount. I do remain very interested in the circumstances.

The real estate market was still very strong nationally throughout the summer of 2005.

If people have data SPECIFICALLY for Chicago that contradicts this, let’s see it.

Like you say, Jane - this is the message, right here:

I don’t know about you, but I did not work my ass off just so a new set of Democratic crooks can set up residence across from the old GOP K-Street crooks. Corruption is corruption and it doesn’t matter the party. We’re not Republicans, and we’re not so enamored with authoritarianism that we will find any excuse to absolve people ostensibly on “our” side of the aisle from responsibility for their indescretions.

Damn straight! And I know I didn’t work nearly as hard as Jane, and this shit pisses me off. I would be livid if I had.

I work hard, hard for my money and I’ve given more in the past 6 months to the Democratic party and its affliates/satelittes or candidates that weren’t anywhere near me geographically so we COULD TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY. Not to do the same shit as before.

I have no tolerance for sleaze, R or D, but on the evidence so far I’m not convinced of wrongdoing. First the measure should not be asking price, but fair market value. Asking price is what the buyer says he or she wants and he or she may be delusional. Second a cash offer or other conditions can create a discount. I bought a house below asking in the insane bay area market because I could accommodate the needs of the sellers in a flexible way other buyers weren’t able to. Nothing crooked, it just worked out well.

Also if I read the post correctly the seller was not the alleged crook, so who cares unless the seller got some quid for his quo, of which there seems to be no evidence.

I agree that Barack, while the best speaker of our generation, is not ready for prime time, I don’t think any of this makes him a crook.

For me edit is only working if I close the window and then come back in afresh.

Gotta go do family stuff.

Jane, left a longish question about fundraising at one of your earlier posts tonight. Not urgent.

Barak is too slick for his own good, too willing to by hyped and marketed like political Pepsi.

I hate those sugary soft drinks.

Obama is all empty calories.

Jane, Definitions/Kennedy at 83, w followup a little later.

OT sort of - I heard from someone today who sells massive volumes of lumber on the national market say that it has gone completely in the shitter. this relates to construction of new homes and has an intimate tie to the health of the economy. 58,000 homes for sale in Phoenix. Something like 44% of new homes in Miami are for sale with not so much as a gentle ocean breeze to push a sale. the next 12-18 mo. could get very hairy for the economy leading into ‘08.

Muzzy @ 68

OT sort of - I heard from someone today who sells massive volumes of lumber on the national market say that it has gone completely in the shitter. this relates to construction of new homes and has an intimate tie to the health of the economy. 58,000 homes for sale in Phoenix. Something like 44% of new homes in Miami are for sale with not so much as a gentle ocean breeze to push a sale. the next 12-18 mo. could get very hairy for the economy leading into ‘08.

Yes but that’s NOW not the summer of ‘05 when the market was still overheated.

Location, location, location, but also timing.

edit note: edit worked this time.

I’ve known people who bought houses in once-nice, on there way back up neighborhoods in Chicago for below asking price. I’ve known people who bought a slice of the neighbor’s yard in Chicago. Maybe it’s nothin’. Now, if it was Orlando, or San Francisco, that would be something else.

But, Obama? Two words.
White. Water.

That turned out to be nothin’ too, but that didn’t mean it didn’t dog the crap out of Clinton for years. You’re already getting a reputation for being all triangulation-y. As you morph into the next Man From Hope, try not to add the shady land deal, too. Thanks.

although there are a number of factors to consider, anyone who bid $300K (18%) below in asking price in the DC market two years ago would have been laughed at…..

….especially when an adjacent property was sold by the same owner at list price.

Its appalling obvious that a deal was worked out between Renzi and the owner — the real question is whether Obama was aware of/participated in the arrangement.

So for the moment, I’ll reserve judgement on the question of Obama’s corruption — he’s still a spineless worm tho.

Uh. Mah. Gawd. Olbermann just said KFed-Ex is shopping around a sex tape of him and his about to be former missus. I think I’m going to be sick.

I feel like we’re trying to draw a conclusion from to little information here. According to the Sun-Times article, Obama and Rezko have known each other since college. That’s a long-standing relationship. They bought some property together. While the house Obama bought was 18 percent off, the parcel next door that Rezko’s wife bought was full price. Why?

What’s the market like in that area for high-value property? Was the property on the market for a long time? Who was the seller and what relationship, if any, did he have with the two buyers?

I’m inclined to dislike Obama anyway, so maybe I’m too inclined here to give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, disliking someone or his politics isn’t reason to assume he’s guilty of something. But I really don’t see much wrong here. More information could change that view, though.

I’m willing to reserve judgement on the crooked, but I am willing to pass judgement on the stupid. Stupid move, Senator. Go have a chat with the junior senator from New York about land deals gone awry, and the political shitstorms therefrom.

If I put my house on the market for a million six and accept a million three, is that a)a sweetheart deal b)an exuberant asking price c) the Gooper “free market” (a favor from a friend, like Santorum’s sweet-deal house in Va, not necessarily the same thing as) d) the free market, a real free market - that’s what people are willing to pay?

I agree with Obama that there are different standards and he needs to be squeaky clean. Living in LA, the housing market from hell, I’m not ready to convict him on the known facts, just yet. My neighbor has listed his house for 1.7 million and will be happy to get a million one. Just sayin’.

shorter - Obama discovers folks will picket his fence and they may draw attention to barbed wire deals.

ok back to punaise school of fine punstards.

If Barack wants my house, he’s paying my damned asking price.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 5:28 pm (#71)

Uh. Mah. Gawd. Olbermann just said KFed-Ex is shopping around a sex tape of him and his about to be former missus. I think I’m going to be sick.

Proving once again that there are worse fates than being alone.

Freshman Dem Nancy Boyda got an “orientation” Countdown clip re: ethics (paraphrase) We don’t want to make any innocent mistakes. We need to know what all the rules are.

Yay, new Dems!!

petedownunder
“Barack not ready for prime time…” Agree wholeheartedly.
What has he accomplished that the MSM were willing to push him as a contender in ‘08?
Nadda!
I hate to sound stupid here, but where is all this information coming from all of a sudden?
When Jane and Christy write about it, I know that it has been vetted by their high standards, but where is the source? I suspect the Repub. slime machine is cranking up into high gear.

Mommas, don’t let your sons grow up to be sex-tapers.

If anyone has the physical street address and the county it shouldn’t be hard to dig around and look at some numbers, dates, neighbors, neighborhood etc. It should be available on-line at the appropriate appraisal or tax district etc.

Oh Christy that is disgusting!

Want a mandate? Want to keep a mandate? Don’t just look clean - Be Clean.
I would hate to start off the new term with the nation wondering when Dems will start to drop…
There are plenty of short and long-term ramifications. We need a big broom immediately.

egregious @ 60 - wrt Obama, summer of ‘05 would be peculiar for a sweetheart real estate deal, especially in a high demand neighborhood.

But just looking ahead in general, even here in Portland,OR where real estate costs lag behind all other metro west coast cities and where we have a nice urban growth boundary to prevent overdevelopment, houses are staying on the market a lot longer in my neighborhood. Some of the asking prices suddenly seem laughable.

Quick response to my Massa coin today:

Teddy,

Thank you very much for your support and for your words of encouragement. We plan to do everything we can to ensure that all ballots are reviewed, and that all votes are counted correctly.
We have a team of lawyers throughout New York’s 29th Congressional District that have lent their services to the campaign to help ensure a fair election. The group is led by the Democratic Lawyers’ Council out of New York City, but as of now we are not getting assistance directly from the DNC.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

way way way OT, and a repeat from Late Nite, but I wanted to share this tidbit-o-snark from SF Chronicle’s Mark Morford, celebrating the demise of Santorum:

Ricky’s voting record is the ethical equivalent of a pie full of nails left over from the “Passion of the Christ” bake sale.

Apple Canyon 2 @ 5:33 pm (#79)

I hate to sound stupid here, but where is all this information coming from all of a sudden?
When Jane and Christy write about it, I know that it has been vetted by their high standards, but where is the source? I suspect the Repub. slime machine is cranking up into high gear.

You’re right to be suspicious. It’s possible someone’s slime machine has been working on this, and I don’t think you can limit the suspects to Republicans. Folks have been talking about him as a Presidential candidate, and after how Hillary Clinton slimed Kerry after the “lack of education gets you stuck in Iraq” thing I’m not prepared to let Obama’s rivals off the hook, either.

It might help if the press had determined from independent real estate sources what the fair market value of the property was at the time of sale, and if such properties were in demand in a way that normal real estate practices would have caused it to sell–at that time–above the asking price.

As housing markets overheat, and available mortgage cash increases, it’s very common for bidding wars to ensue, and in hot real estate markets, for properties to sell well above initial asking prices. That sort of strikes me as the situation at the time of sale. That’s why some determination of the fair market value at the time seems to be an essential point missing from this story.

Well if you want no fucking tolerance, you better go to a Quaker Meeting…haven’t we all known forever that most everyone who hangs around the beltway is tainted and compromised? In my book, it is about “how much” and having some kind of line a liberal draws in the dust and says, no, I won’t go there. A bit of honor among theives.
We can expect better but from some, we will absolutely not get it.

Sunshine.

Let it all come out.

Transparency.

Reveal everything.

Tell.

It’s the only hope for America.

So what did he learn from the Rezko transactions? Obama said, “One of the things you purchase in public life is that there are going to be a different set of standards, and I’m going to make sure from this point on I don’t even come close to the line.”

This is a tacit admission. Kenwood is a very prestigious neighborhood, and I doubt property in that neighborhood would ever sell for lower than the asking price, especially as areas just north of Kenwood are now heavily gentrified. And Rezko is the hight of sleeze in Illinois politics, or at least this is what I learned in a quick Google search. That he would have Rezko, who is obviously a friend, purchase vacant property, and very expensive vacant property, next to his home so he could purchase it from him as funds would become available reveals to me that there is more to this deal that we do not know. This is the equivalent of having Abramoff purchase property next to a mansion, and Kenwood is full of mansions, so that one can eventually purchase the Abramoff property as funds became available. If I were an investigative reporter, I would want details on the Obama-Rezko relationship in 2005 and in 2006.

“This is the first time this has happened and I don’t like the feeling,” Obama said. “It’s frustrating to me, and I’m kicking myself about it.”

Why is he “kicking” himself? Again, it is an admission of guilt, and unless he plans on moving or buying the remaining property, he will remain tainted by this questionable exchange. But he clearly knew what he was doing. Only know does he “kick” himself for what he knew was a major error.

Again, he admitted he erred. This prompts me to think he is guilty of a questionable real estate exchange in a neighborhood where homes are a lot more expensive than the price he paid, and it leads me to believe that there are many more layers to peel before we truly know what he and Rezko have in common.

Seeing W speak at the groundbreaking of the King memorial, I realize he cannot pronounce the word “conscience.” He has never said it correctly.

Perhaps there’s a reason.

I’m not taking sides on this issue, but it is interesting to note that the question of whether or not Obama did something wrong is hotly debated here, yet Dick Cheney can shoot someone in the face and their side of the aisle closes ranks and insists too much is being made of the event. Accepting these differing styles as a given, how can we turn ours to an advantage, whatever the issue? Can our open dialog in forums like this lead to better-prepared spokespersons by anticipating critical questions?

Just looking for a silver lining.

Corruption is corruption and it doesn’t matter the party.

Obama thinks that a house purchased for $300,000 below asking price and a land deal with a shady character is only an issue because he’s in public life?

I live in San Diego County…Congressional District 50 should remind Obama of how things fall apart.

Lynn Sweet is not a GOP operative. There is enogh here that doesn’t pass the smell test that it is a legitimate source of inquiry.

1,333 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Hamsher:

YOU GO GIRL!! Even if it costs the Senate majority for two years we gotta crush the next generation of Liebermans before they ken procreate. In addition, I have been sayin’ all along that the battle to sanitize the Democratic Party from the DLCers and the fascist enablers is most pressing right now…if we don’t win that battle, the ‘08 election won’t mean ANYthin.

Even though Nancy Pelosi ain’t my first choice at the dance, she’s tough as nails and has mosta the right values (her Catholic angst over abortion not withstanding)and she doesn’t have much ta chose from with regard to those who are runnin’ for leadership behind ‘er…she needs our support in her efforts to negotiate the reefs here. If she ken get Murtha as her backup, she ken control ‘im and he’s gunna be tough for the “blue dog” Rahm stooges to get past. If Pelosi gets Murtha she has a whole BOATLOAD a good committee chairs ta count on and the Clintonistas and the corporatists will hafta cultivate the Senate manure pile ta get their mushrooms.

Harry Reid needs ta step down right now and give Mrs. Clinton sumpthin ta do instead of runnin’ fer president. The depth of the corruption of the entire political establishment since 1992 is frightenin’ and the netroots. extra-party forces like Move-On and a few good people like Fiengold, Gore and the House Democratic committee chairs are all we got with which ta clean up the mess.

KEEP THE FAITH AND THE AMMUNITION COMIN’…THERE ARE A LOTTA BAD GUYS OUT THERE!!!

Christy Hardin Smith @
72

Uh. Mah. Gawd. Olbermann just said KFed-Ex is shopping around a sex tape of him and his about to be former missus. I think I’m going to be sick.

So much for the air tight pre nup.

Inital shot fired in the Prez 2008 campaign. Now Obama and Hillary both have “land deal” issues.

Its gonna take more than this, though I agree that any shady dealing need light cast on them.

Nov 2004 going into the winter there was a decent amount of talk about the housing bubble burst - so buying a house under list price does not necessarily mean anything, especially if the price was inflated anyway (and who the hell knows with the crazy house prices these/those days).

The part with that shady fellow sounds worse, though both issues could be shady.

Anyway this aint gonna get me to change my vote from Obama.

=========================

OT:

I saw the anti Net Nutrality ad again they play it during TDS (or re-runs). It is funded by the telecoms and says Net Nutrality is a bunch of “mumbo-jumbo” by net mogules in Hollywood that mean we pay more…. this shit has to be answered with facts, and it needs to be clear before the fact that they party, and the people who try to put this through will lose 2 generations of voters. People have to be pre-educated as the other side is showing they have already started.

twolf1 @ 9

sorry for the OT, CNN billing Joe “Me the people” Lieberman as the most powerful man in DC.

Clinton, Schumer, Reid, Obama, et al asked for this. They allowed Joe to set the rules of the game. They made their bed now they can lie in it.

All they had to do this fall was to show Lamont a modicum of support and stop Lieberman from claiming that he would have seniority. If they had supported the Dem primary winner in CT, they (we) wouldn’t be in this situation.

Idiots.

Speaking as Obama’s constitutent, he’s one of my least favorite elected officials. I’d like to see his big ego deflated and the shine taken off his halo. Too many people here (in Illinois) haven’t been paying attention to him and it doesn’t help with Oprah cheerleading him.

On its face the house purchase looks questionable, but there could be an explanation.

What hasn’t gotten enough attention is this:

“She’s terrific,” added Michael Riordan, who was president of the hospital in March 2005, when Michelle Obama was promoted to vice president for external affairs and had her annual salary increased from $121,910 to $316,962.

tuneforg @ 60

Who is the seller people is the important question? This $300,000 below asking price sale is obviously a way to disguise a campaign contrabution to Obama. So who is giving the contrabution? Also the sellar insisted that two land parcels be sold the same day below market price? The second land parcel was Rezko’s cut for making the deal happen.

I am irresistably reminded of the opening salvos of Whitewater.

Obama didn’t buy below market value, he bought 15% below asking price. I’ve never in my life bought property at asking price…outside of California, it’s normal for people to offer about 20% under asking price, and negotiate up a bit from there, depending on how motivated the seller is.

If there’s any chicanery here, I suspect it’s in Renzo buying the second lot at the same time; clearly the seller wasn’t going to take Obama’s offer for the house unless he could find someone to buy the adjacent lot. Did Renzo pay a fair price for the other lot? Was it asking price or 15% below?

As for Harry Reid’s Bullhead City property, it looks to me like he tried to sell it 15 years ago, and the buyers defaulted. I’d bet, though I don’t know for sure, that the property has been on the market ever since, with no takers. His partner bailed out at a loss.