(Huge h/t to reader Mutant Poodle for the link to this video. Classic!)
Now this is how it is done:
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid had a decision to make. President Bush was starting his second term with a brash challenge to a sacred Democratic program — Social Security — and the House and Senate Democratic leaders needed a coordinated response, and fast….
Top party leaders debated their response in a series of frantic meetings and conference calls early last year, according to aides who spoke on condition of anonymity. Then Pelosi brought up a piece of advice shared by several marketing specialists from the business world she had sought out: You can't build up your brand unless you first take down the competition's.
And so Pelosi and Reid put out the word: There would be no Democratic Social Security plan, and no negotiating with Bush as long as he insisted on privatization….
Last March, Reid persuaded more than 40 Democratic senators to oppose privatization, assuring Democrats of the number they'd need to sustain a filibuster. Pelosi had fewer procedural tools but no less commitment to the cause. One Pelosi aide recalls her giving the same curt response to several colleagues who asked when the party's Social Security plan would be released: "Never. Does never work for you?" (emphasis mine)
Boo-yah! I believe that is what we call balls of steel…erm…except in this case, perhaps it's ovaries of steel. Whatever. And taking out the Republican brand with a plan? A thing of beauty.
I do not envy Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid their tasks of herding this many large egos and self-interested self-dealers (Joe Lieberman at the top of the Senate list of people ready to jump at a moment's notice), but in this instance, they played it absolutely right. Why is that, you ask? For this reason:
But in the end, Democrats' blocking efforts were so successful that Bush never even introduced a bill. By campaign season, only Democrats were bringing up Social Security private accounts — as a weapon to use against Republicans. The campaign-style apparatus that defeated Social Security reform was ready to go on behalf of Democratic candidates.
As challenges arose for Republicans — indictments of House members, the Terri Schiavo affair, Hurricane Katrina, the efforts of a Dubai-controlled company to take over US ports — Democratic unity left the party well positioned for political gain by keeping the focus on Republican missteps.
Gone were the days in which House Democratic leaders could be wooed into supporting bills, or where a few dozen conservative Democrats could be counted on to vote with Republicans to cut taxes or spending.
That meant every Republican vote was crucial, allowing Democrats to exploit areas of Republican discord and force moderate Republicans into politically difficult votes.
"Disunity had been a hallmark of the Democratic Party, but they disciplined the members, and all the factions within the party came together," said Zelizer, of Boston University. (emphasis mine)
And I have it on good authority from a number of sources on the Hill that all of our efforts on behalf of Ned Lamont helped with that party discipline. Every time someone got out of line, someone in leadership could say "Look, remember what happened to Joe Lieberman…you'd hate to have to deal with that sort of primary in 2008/10, wouldn't you?" (Of course, had the Senate leadership followed through with its promises to campaign for Ned, they would have had an even bigger carrot and stick. Now they have a whiny Lieberman for Lieberman, who apparently said on this morning's MtP that he is not ruling out caucusing with the GOP, but that he hopes it doesn't get to that point. Because, well, you know, nothing is ever Joe's fault — it's always something he finds a way to conveniently blame on someone else. I'd feel badly for the Senate Democratic leadership, but they have earned every snivelling, self-dealing moment of this all on their own. Will link up the transcript when I get one.)
In any case, having a plan to deal with George Bush and his rubber stamp Republican parliamentary minions? Priceless. Carrot, stick, and a whole lot of motivated leadership…and look where we are today. More of that, please.
(H/T to RevDeb and Prof for the link to the Boston Globe article.)



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Very nice article about Nancy from the Toronto Star:
Pelosi’s no flower child
It includes this:
FITZ!
PS, h/t credit where credit is due, CHS?
“Ovaries of steel”
Boo-yah!
The Lamont effort was not wasted. Not by a long shot!
No compromise with the Republicans and no to DLC.
Pelosi will be fine.
Prof at 3 — I put one in, but it got cut off somehow. Refresh, I re-added it and am hoping it took this time. No idea why this hiccups every once in a while like that, but I lose a last sentence every so often…
Grandma!
I’m enthusiastic about Pelosi’s leadership. We have a good core of Democrats in leadership positions and I hope they >”take the battle to the enemy” every day.
hizzhoner.
That video is absolutely priceless.
Where did they get all those cats?
Did they feed them nicely?
How did they get them to swim the river?
Is this all computer graphics?
But what a video!!!
this is too good to waste as a second to last post …epu’d, here it is again
I guess this hasn’t been mentioned, but I’m sure of it;
jr is no longer the president, it’s sr. running things again
this is to my mind not an opinion, but a fact, it’s seniors staff making the decisions and they are going to contact daddy on everything, and if junior makes a boy king suggestion daddy is gonna say “HAVE A CUP OF SHUT THE FUCK UP”
daddy is the president of the united states of america right now, so he got a second term after all
Christy Hardin Smith @ 6
You’re a peach, CHS. Please feel free to delete my 3.
What Pelosi gets and few others do is that she gains greater prestige and power by organizing the chaos than by standing above it braying and mewing and commenting and pontificating.
I love that quote :
Exactly right. Pick your battles. Then don’t lose.
My cat is upset, and is thinking of bucking the Republican party. Who knows where this might lead.
Prof at 9 — I have watched that video three times already today. hehehehehe Cracks me up every time.
As to 2008. I do not want to be forced into a choice of bad and less bad.
that’s a great clip, is it an advertisement?
if it is, it’s effective becuase we love the video?
how is it actually marketing the product it’s promoting?
ROOTZ & DEAN!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/11/223911/01
Show him we care.
Lieberman embraces McCain by saying that we, as elected leaders, cannot conduct a war based on public opinion polls– we have to do what is in our heart(s).
Really?
(emphasis mine)
I think it is great that L4L is running his mouth and acting like the smug little prick that he is. It is not PC to say, but I think that the health problems of Sen Thomas will probably lead to his resignation.
Atrios wins with the line of the morning:
“And Tim Russert will have Joe Lieberman and John McCain on to debate whether the war is the awesomest or just superawesome.”
I want out of Iraq NOW. Gawddamnit!
That video is an advertisement that aired during a Super Bowl a few years ago.
EPU’d…If anyone finds a vid clip of SNL Weekend Update last night…some highlights:
And an analysis of our new Senate leader, Harry Reid, in Reid, an ex-boxer, hasn’t forgotten Bush’s punches:
I attended one of the early 2005 democratic Social Security Townhalls and it was the phrase that struck me…….. “We already have a plan… It was voted into law by FDR and it is called Social Security….. it has worked for 70 years for millions of Americans…”
Steve @ 19
Liebermann is a brand we need to take down. Highlight what an opportunistic, hypocritical crybaby he is every chance we get. I see KO, Stewart, & Colbert making some good sport with him in the near future. Take him down with ridicule.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 21
we all want out of Iraq, but really we have to do a few things before we leave
our troops accomplished their mission, we have to that clear, that their mission was completed with resounding efficiency and rumsfeld failed to follow through with what needed to be done, therefore it became impossible to do
our soldiers are not a free police force for the Iraqi’s, they are not painters of schools, they are not escorts
they are not diplomats
we need to make that clear, and we need to make clear that a political branch needs to take over and take over as soon as practicable’
that’s the way we need to leave, in success, with hopes that the force we hand the baton doesn’t drop the stick
we need to make any further failure or consequence a direct result of the failed policy of the administration, and any success a direct result of the progressive programs
win win, no losse marketing
Which is exactly what the Republicans have been doing for, oh, thirty years or so.
The Democratic Party should be an easy brand to market, seeing as how in poll after poll after poll people overwhelmingly support the positions of the Democratic party.
I’m so impressed with Madam Speaker. Ovaries of steel, indeed.
I actually watched snotty Joe Lieberman this morning. It’s something I don’t intend to repeat. I will now have to play with my dogs the rest of the day to decompress. I cannot express how much I despise this little man. He said he thought we could still win in Iraq. Wonder how those Connecticut voters who bought the spin that he wanted the troops home are going to feel about that? UGH.
One of my friends made the point that Joe may not be quite so power happy with the realization that we have a great opportunity to increase our margin in the Senate in 08. All we need to do is hold and gain one more and whiny Joe becomes irrelevant. As we all know, Joe is only about Joe.
McCain was doing quite the dance trying not to step all over his dick this morning. Most amusing.
By the way, thank all of you, especially Jane, Christie, etc. for all you have done and continue to do. I love this site and credit it with keeping my sanity throughout these past many months.
perris, formerly known as me to me, says “our soldiers are not a free police force for the Iraqi’s, they are not painters of schools, they are not escorts”
No, those are Halliburton, Blackwater, and KBR’s jobs.
Watch this, if you have broadband and an hour and fifteen minutes.
http://video.google.com/videop…..7392146155
Iraq for sale.
Good morning. I’m still trying on the idea of Nancy as our next President. She’s third in line and the two in front of her are looking quite wobbly.
Herding cats may be necessary and appropriate. However, if Steny Hoyer and his “moderate” faction attempt to put any halt to committee investigations of wrongdoing by millitary contractors, then fuck them.
Never works for me.
In the first REAL fight of his life, baby bush is beat up by a Girl !
Watching “Face the Nation” with Harry Reid and I find that Reid’s mic is not sounding right, the audio guy is NOT doing his job…. his voice is sounding soft and weak….. grrrrr
I, for one, will never, ever presume to tell the Iraqis or the Afghans what they need to do.
never.
We need to leave and make huge reparations to those that have suffered both here and abroad.
and tell them we are deeply sorry and have chosen a better way.
then, war crimes tribunals commence for those that are our “leaders”.
katymine @ 25
that’s a GREAT line
we need to educate EVERYONE, becuase republicans (I don’t mean politicians) really don’t know what’s happened
http://www.dollarsandsense.org/1104orr.htmlpretty good article
[snippet]
Social Security is the most successful insurance program ever created. It insures millions of workers against what economists call “longevity risk,” the possibility they will live “too long” and not be able to work long enough, or save enough, to provide their own income. Today, about 10% of those over age 65 live in poverty. Without Social Security, that rate would be almost 50%.
…
So why the talk of a Social Security crisis? Social Security always has been a pay-as-you-go system. Current benefits are paid out of current tax revenues. But in the 1980s, a commission headed by Greenspan recommended raising payroll taxes to expand the trust fund in order to supplement tax revenues when the baby boom generation retires. Congress responded in 1984 by raising payroll taxes significantly. As a result, the Social Security trust fund, which holds government bonds as assets, has grown every year since. As the baby boom moves into retirement, these assets will be sold to help pay their retirement benefits.
[/snippet]
the article tries to point out that there is no social security issue…it’s good reading.
a few points of my own;
first, I think most people have to realize that social security is SO successful, the government borrows money from social security…president Bush followed president Reagan’s model and borrowed trillions to accommodate his “tax cuts”…those trillions have to be called, and the money has to be put back
however, the benefactors of those tax giveaways want to find a way to forgive the debt they incurred, and that is the only motivation behind the presidents “social security reform”
on point;
there are two types wealth that are of concern when we’re talking about social security giveaways to wealthy (there are other types, but these are what is Germain)
there is old wealth…families had wealth before the economic strategy that included social security.
these families have not contributed to social security since their wealth was acquired before the social security program
any money that these people receive based on social security is welfare to the wealthy…it’s raiding the fund and they have no other monetary concern other then “they want free money that they are not entitled to.”
(side bar, it’s not their money, it’s your money…they can’t have it…unless you let the person responsible for your security (the president) give it to them…this will come directly out of your pocket, see my thread on how the tax returns have affected me and my dad)
next to consider is new wealth;
wealth that has been acquired or improved upon since the advent of social security.
this wealth has contributed to the social security fund program…they are involved, and they have a much large stake in the program
one might argue that a tax return based on social security for these people has been earned, and since they will never tap into the fund, they should get some of their investment back
no…they have gotten their investment back in their acquired wealth.
it’s the economic strategy that includes social security that played an important role in the new or improved wealth
there are selfish, lazy and irresponsible people who, on acquiring wealth, don’t want to pay the bill that is called by the economic system that got them where they are
this is the problem…these people must continue to the process that got them their wealth, and they need to stop trying to avoid the rent they have to pay to live in this country.
in this fashion, generations that follow might have the same opportunity at wealth and growth
when a person acquires wealth, then tries to change the tax structure that was largely responsible for getting them there, that’s the same thing as a theft against our future…it’s stealing from your children, and steeling from your family
have a read of the article…good stuff inside
Regarding Iraq. I have one and only one concern. And that is to stop American soldiers from dying. Needlessly. I’m not interested in “revisiting” the issue of a pull out. And I am NOT interested in ‘practicality’ at the expense of additional loss of, or wounding of American soldiers. I want the soldiers in our family, and all American soldiers home. Now!!!
Life versus death in a trumped up war? This is not a difficult question.
angie @ 35
One of my students is a Kurdish Iraqi, and he said Iraq was already effectively partitioned, and that the partitioning should be formalized. He was aware that this would leave non-Kurdish Sunnis with almost nothing (very little oil), and he said the Kurds were willing to share their oil with non-Kurdish Sunnis to make things fair.
Because the 50-50 split that would result from LIEberman going to the dark side would not shift absolute control to the Republicans, I don’t see LIEberman doing it. The even split should mean equally populated committees and sharing of power.
Its not like a corporation with two 49% stockholders who hate each other and a two percent owner who’s the swing vote and can deliver absolute control to either block.
The best LIEbernam can deliver to the Publicans is the ability to have Cheney break a tie on a party line vote.
Given the mood of the country, and the fact that 21 of the next Senate class up for re-election are Publicans and the fact that the Democrats can give LIEberman more power than the Pubs, who would never really trust him, I see the comments as posturing for the power he wants.
Moreover, I wonder how many moderate Pubs are going to take advantage of the political cover provided by a Democratic majority.
A nod of thanks to J R Sidarth, who as a young man handled the macaca incident without becoming part of it. But for him, that election could easily have gone to Allen.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
well, I of course agree, however there really will be more death if we just up and go, more Iraqi death, and possibly more american death becuase the president really did destabalize the middle east and create breeding and training grounds for our enemies
we have to find a way to stop the breeding and training the president cuased
that’s my real concern
angie @ 18
Of course, after he told the residents of Connectictu exactly the opposite. No one wants to end the war and bring the troops home as much as Lieberman.
Didn’t you know? He was the anti-war candidate.
As a CT resident I can tell you that the grassroots is already looking at ways that we can hold Lieberman’s feet to the fire on all the lies he told during the election. He many never run for office again. But we can expose him, once and for all, as the duplicitous, skanky liar that he is. Even the seniors will get it.
Heh. Too funny. I was working for EDS when this advert came out, pretty sure it was in the 2001-2002 timeframe. There was an advert with squirrels trying to build a plane in flight, too, about the same time. I have no loyalties to EDS any longer, but these ads were a nice buy. Too bad the tech market tanked about the time these came out.
And yeah, believe me, as an IT project manager on a Fortune 100 account, it was all about herding cats. The kind with claws and unexpectedly coughed-up furballs.
This is why Pelosi has an advantage over male counterparts; she’s done an awful lot of multi-tasking cat-herding already, had to get results while trying to manage insufferable prima donnas jacked up on an overdose of testosterone. It’s only a step away from trying to wrangle multiple pre-nap toddlers into cooperation.
Big, swinging steel ovaries.
And a wirey, strong whip arm.
She’s got ‘em, she’ll be fine.
I love that Democrats are being kept in line by the example set in Connecticut. Lieberman was fortunate in that the Republican in the race, Alan Schlesinger, was a weak candidate with little party support. Other Democrats have to realize that if they undermine their own party, the base and the netroots will remember and hold them accountable in the next primary. It is a beautiful thing.
Interestingly, one of the major factors that I believe we should consider in determining which incumbent Democrats are deserving of a primary challenge is whether they provided sufficient support for Lamont. We must instill respect for the party’s choices by punishing those Democrats who do not accept the results of our own primaries. If I see Harry Reid at YearlyKos, I will make this crystal clear to him.
dab at 41 — brilliant. Let me know how we can help.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
likewise.
Beeeoooootifulll Christy!
It was pretty obvious from your barely-suppressed “I’veGottaSecret” GRIN ever since election day, plus a few subtle hints to the hasty among us – I think I recall a, “Let’s give the leadership some breathing room, folks.” or some such thing from you, if memory serves…
Just curious. Why do you think so many people missed the possibility/probability that Liarmann would play both sides to his own benefit after the election? OMG, It was so obvious in everything he did beforehand! It would have been a shock to me if he hadn’t.
Such a limp personality carrying such an oversized ego – somethin’s gotta give… I could never listen to him before. Now even mute isn’t enough “space”. It’s gotta be the OFF button in this house whenever he’s on camera.
The Liebermann nuisance sounds like a walking, talking “TOLD YOU SO!” argument the blog community can wave at the DLC any time they want. Whatever they say in public, the DLC will wish they had listened and acted accordingly when they had a chance.
Dab from CT-
Count me in, too. If you need funds I will send them. Good on the progressive folks in Connecticut!
We will have missing family at our table for supper this afternoon. Because they are far away serving in the armed services. The people in Iraq have a right to self-determination. We have no business being there. And I am quite sure Iraqi’s believe there are some things worth fighting and dying for.
Oil, Halliburton or greed, and soothing some sort of twisted Oedipal ego of President Bush is NOT worth one single American G.I.’s death.
Ah. I think I was so overworked during the time the EDS ad series came out, that I conflated the “Squirrels” and “Plane” ads.
Squirrels:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnxS94em8uA
Can’t find the plane ad. Oh well. In some ways, that particular ad is emblematic of the problems we face building the Dem brand “in flight”.
Glenn Greenwald takes Russ Feingold and beats the living sh!t out of the punditocracy with him, here;
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot…..-russ.html
I’d like to believe that certain of these people will take a little more time to engage their brains before puttting digits to keyboards in the future, but I’m not holding my breath.
I’ve got a summary article for you from A.P.’s Philip Elliott in WaPo about the unsettled House races.
The title is misleading, it says 9 districts, but there are 2 more headed for runoffs.
I’ll give you this and then put together a quick summary.
angie @ 45
me too!
The best thing that could happen would be a red state senator not being able to fulfill their term with a newly blue state governor. That would render Liebermunch for Liebermunch as useless a tits on a bull. I’d love to see the fulminating Lieberman on teevee talking about how relevant he is then. He’s already consigned himself to the caricature of a Thomas Nast political character. In the annals of history Joe will be right up there with Boss Tweed. Deservingly so.
So, who’s under investigation? Or could be? :)
Like I said, A painful victory lap for us all to bear.
Twisted Martini — you out there?
Too funny this morning; hubby comes back from his usual Sunday morning grocery shopping, laughingly comments that somebody down the street “got pimped”. The kids and I ran to the window, expecting to see the home of at least one of the teenagers attending public school to be draped in toilet tissue.
But it was the teenager attending private school — her entire lawn had been covered wall-to-wall with Dick DeVos and Terry Land signs. Going to take all morning and afternoon to get rid of them.
Heh.
Hey Jo Fish, on Veteran’s Day I say thank you. Even if squids are for kids! ;-)
*xyz @
43
Hmmm. If Harry shows up at YK I would not be opposed to having a counter-programming moment about “what Ned Lamont’s candidacy meant to the 2006 election.”
Keynote speakers Tom Swan and Tim Tagaris?
Jane at 57 — perfect.
Great story Rayne! And cool to hear about you working for Ed’s. I worked with them in my days at Xerox.
OT, but I’m not sure there will ever be a thread this fits into.
Meth and Man-ass: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..&eurl=
707
‘Lieberman/McCain 08′ The ‘Purrfect Ticket!
Have our seven new Democratic Senators-elect scheduled their big fundraiser to retire the $2,00,000 loan NED made to his campaign? You know, the campaign that was a magnet for $19,000,000 in GOP money that was therefore NOT available to Senators Allen, DeWine, Chafee, Talent, Burns, Santorum, and wannabes Steele and Junior Kean?
Maybe YK can get BigPharma to lay out the buffet for the Tagaris/Swan panel….
perris, formerly known as me to me@ 36
There is an article on Social Security in the Nov 6 Newsweek mag, it about buying a commericial lifetime monthly income policy which is inflation adjusted for a single person retiring Jan 1 2007 would receive $1361/month Social Security income the same type of policy would cost $263,000 to buy that policy.
Ditto, vote for Swan and Tagaris to speak.
Hope Doctor Dean could try to make the event, too.
BTW, refresh my memory, please (too much has happened in the last month, overloaded my memory)…when/where is YKos? Need to get on my calendar and prepare to book flights, lodging.
@37..Since our media is so heavily censored..I periodically go to “Peace Takes Courage”..The old war-horse “WWJD” gives me pause about immediate withdrawal. It might be the right thing to do but we need honest and competent people to make a plan. Bush et al have killed 655 -200 thousand Iraqi’s. How do we stop the slaughter?
Rayne at 64 — I know it is in Chicago this year, but I can’t remember the exact dates. Anyone have that info handy?
This is why I love you guys.
I think Lieberman should go be a republican. Then the electorate will know the “seniority” and “nice guy” doesn’t cut it. They voted for someone who said that he would caucus with the Democrats and he is already pulling at the bit to break what is arguably his biggest campaign promise.
Think about it. If he were to go repbulican, it would show who he is, and all of his ugly garbage would be dumped where it belongs — in front of the Republican party. The news would be huge, and the boost to democrats would be huge.
Does anyone know if CT has a recall law like we have in CA? I am sure that if Lieberman did break that one compaign promise, 65% of CT would want him recalled.
lisadawn at 67 — that’s why we love you guys right back. :)
Source: Philip Elliott, AP, in WaPo
ELEVEN RACES STILL IN PLAY: I say 11, Elliott says 9.
WA-08 Darcy Burner, they are still counting mailed votes. She’s down 3,000 with more than half in.
WY-all Cubin-R ahead of Trauner by 1,000 with most votes in. 3rd party candidate got 7,500.
NM-01 Wilson-R over Madrid by 1,600 and another 4,400 yet to count.
TX-23 Ciro Rodriguez will go to runoff.
LA-12 Carter-D and Jefferson-$ will go to runoff. By definition a Dem. winner.
FL-13 is K. Harris’s old place with the 18,000 missing votes. Guess they are going to look for some of them.
GA-12 Incumbent Dem. Barrow holds on by a margin of 900, probably going to recount.
NC-08 Kissell behind Hayes-R by 449, waiting for provisionals.
OH-02 Schmidt-R over Wulsin by 2,800, awaiting provisionals and absentees, which could take 2 weeks.
OH-15 Pryce-R ahead by 3,500, waiting for 9,000 provisionals, the count is pushed back a day because of the OSU/UMichigan game.
CT-02 Democrat Courtney ahead by the tiniest of margins, 166, recounts going on now.
YK Chi-town August 2-5:
http://www.yearlykosconvention.org/node/526
Meth and man-ass rocks!
I belong to no organized political party — I am a Democrat. –Will Rogers
Unity of purpose is a good thing (TM). But there is a difference between opposition and governance and (as has been pointed out here already) between advocay and governance. We need to celebrate the “herd-of-cat-ness” that is a democratic Democratic Party. I believe that the great downfall of the GOP owes to hubris, and that their hubris is a corollary of their (heirarchical) Party Discipline. They were rubber stamps because that is what it means to be a Republican: fealty, deference, Confucian order. Altho Democrats are equally capable of corruption they are less likely to veer towards facsism precisely because cats don’t like being told which way to go. You get them into the car carrier at a price…
On Social Security katymine got it almost perfect but ended up sticking in some myths.
First the 1983 Act was not designed to pre-fund anything. You can read right through the 1984 Annual Report and not find a word (at least I couldn’t) about even the 1990s.
http://bruceweb.blogspot.com/2…..ports.html
The Trust Fund Ratio (reserves expressed as a function of time) dipped to below 13 in 1983 which is to say 51 days. The increase was only designed and pretty much only served to rebuild the Trust Fund Ratio. Which it did the Trust Fund Ratio is sitting at 300 (three years) in large part due to unanticipated growth in the 1990s.
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/TR0…..ml#wp96419 Trust Fund Operations 1957 to 2005
Moreover this same table punctures the myth that the Trust Fund has somehow been looted. The reality is that until the mid 90’s there really was not much to loot. 1993 Year End totals from program inception only added up to $378 billion or a Trust Fund ratio of 107, which is to say one year of reserves to help fight off a recession that would hurt FICA receipts.
It was always understood that the Trust Fund would go to depletion, and until the early 90s that depeletion date was expected to coincide with the peack of Boomer retirements (2023). A Trust scheduled to go deplete at your peak point of need is an odd way of pre-funding.
Now due to some better than anticipated growth depletion has been pushed out to 2041 or 2055 (depends whose numbers you use) or even forever (my numbers) but Social Security has always been paygo, the money is exactly where it is supposed to be, and anyone who implies otherwise has simply been taken in by 23 years of Cato spin.
Jane Hamsher @ 57
from jane’s keyboard to gina’s plans, here’s hoping!
@68..I had the same thought..Wiki says recalls are prohibited for Federal positions.
Liarman has four children and one son in law. If he believes we need more troops in Iraq shouldn’t his children serve? Every day and in every way his constituents should ask when Liarman’s children will enlist.
livetoad at 73 — exactly so, and anyone who has ever owned a cat has the car carrier scratches to prove it. *g* Which is why I thought this particular video was so perfect for the current environment. Independence of thought is a good thing when coupled with a common purpose — it tests the ideas at the margins and leads to a stronger argument on the whole. But it doesn’t allow for some sort of wholesale rule by fiat, which is just wrong, wrong, wrong. (And the problem with the parliamentary concept under which the GOP has been operating the last few years…there is a reason the Founding Fathers saw the wisdom of NOT choosing that, and why checks and balances between the branches and within the individual party caucuses are so essential.)
dab from CT @ 41
Any news about Joe’s $387,000?
Absent other changes, that would put the Senate back at 50 – 50. DeadEye breaks the ties.
At least with 51-50, Harry gets to appoint all the Committee chairs. Without Lieberman4Lieberman caucusing with the Dems, the GOP could use the tie to dilute the House’s investigations.
The GOP has to defend a lot more Senate seats in 2008 than the Democrats. It would be great if we could convince one or two to caucus with the Dems. That would rob Lieberman4Lieberman of all his leverage.
Senate Class II, up in 2008:
Democrats
Baucus, Max
Biden, Joseph
Durbin, Richard
Harkin, Tom
Johnson, Tim
Kerry, John
Landrieu, Mary
Lautenberg, Frank
Levin, Carl
Pryor, Mark
Reed, Jack
Rockefeller, John
Republicans
Alexander, Lamar
Allard, Wayne
Chambliss, Saxby
Cochran, Thad
Coleman, Norm
Collins, Susan
Cornyn, John
Craig, Larry
Dole, Elizabeth
Domenici, Pete
Enzi, Michael
Graham, Lindsey
Hagel, Chuck
Inhofe, James
McConnell, Mitch
Roberts, Pat
Sessions, Jeff
Smith, Gordon
Stevens, Ted
Sununu, John
Warner, John
Lou Costello @ 60
That’s too damn funny. Mike Jones lives around here somewhere. Mrs CO saw him having lunch at our neighbourhood bar & grill one day last week. If I see him I’ll shake his hand.
TeddySanFran — thanks much for the YKos07 dates.
Only possible conflict would be having a state central committee meeting that week; it’s typically held in the upper peninsula of Michigan during late summer so that more attendees can make it (weather too nasty in winter). I’d have to cut my YKos trip short — leave the kids with the grandparents in Marquette, fly to Chicago 01-AUG, depart late 03-AUG for a meeting somewhere in UP on Saturday. It’d be a zoo, but worth it.
In otherwords, I hope Swan/Tagaris could be on Friday…[fingers crossed]
Update on Burner from SecState: she is down 3,500 with 75% of the votes in. Any vote postmarked by Tuesday will be counted. How fast is the mail out there guys?
Teddy @ 81, thanks for that– it’s a veritable feast for FDL and the ROOTZ!
God help me. I did a search on EDS videos and found Running with the Squirrels
Jane – the counter-programming idea is brilliant.
I’m also sure that the formal panel discussion will be supplemented by numerous individual conversations with Senator Reid. He needs to hear it directly from as many of us as possible. And I’m sure we’ll have many new examples of egregious behavior from Lieberman to mention to Reid by the time YearlyKos rolls around.
livetoad @ 73
Yeah, and the price is having to allow JoePussy to spray his vile musk all over the Senate. He needs to be neutured. Any Republican Senators out there who show any remote signs of bucking the system should be encouraged to do so and make Joe a non issue. Surely they are as tired of him pissing all over hell and gone too?
I am so weary by attempts to control what I know to be right, and told how to act, by guys like Lieberman and the ol’ boy Demo network. The DLC.
MN governor’s race still undeclared. Pawlenty-R has 23,000 more than Hatch-D with nearly all of the 2.2 million votes in. I have no other details, fdl people in MN–do you have a lot of provisionals? Are you still awaiting military/overseas absentees, or local absentees?
edit—I googled around a little, people are talking about why Hatch lost.
1,332 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
oklahoma kiddo:
Bless you ,brother… gettin’ outta Iraq is not only the moral high ground but is politically the winning strategy to consolidate power and completely marginalize the corporatists from BOTH parties. All winning politics starts with getting outta Iraq and saving what remains of this new generation that we are gunna need so desperately if we are to have a retirement.
The conventional wisdom is based on some sound historical examples…like what the Nazis did ta all the non-fascists after WWI, if you support gettin’ out of a losing war you will be crucified in the aftermath as “stabbing the Fatherland in the back”. The Democrats suffered this fate after Nixon, when they shoulda been able ta consolidate power and permanently marginalize the Republicans, the Dems instead triangulated themselves right into Jimmy Carter and political irrelevance when Reagan blew into power marginalizin’ the Democrats as weak losers who sold out the country in Viet Nam.
What is necessary is to get the hell outta Iraq behind and an international effort fronted thru the United Nations and a coordinated Arab involvement including Syria and Iran. This will allow the Democrats to expose the criminality of the war and place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the fascist Republican Party…no one will be able to create a “stab in the back” political meme and the forces that got us involved will be painted outta political power for 100 years.
Again bless your heart, kiddo…remember that everything political starts with doin the right thing for those kids in the desert with their asses on the line.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THERE WILL BE PLENTY MORE BATTLES BEFORE THE WAR IS WON!!
The inference I draw from this Newsqueak article is that, while he wasn’t on any ballot, the American people voted last week to restore the George H.W. Bush Presidency. Funny how that never came up during the campaign….
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15…../newsweek/
egregious @
84
King Co. absentees are largely counted. The remaining absentees, from the more conservative Pierce Co., are to be counted Monday. Sad to say, it’s not looking good.
I’m thinking Pelosi is a force of nature
Great discussion here. I just want to say how cool that video is. One of the best superbowl ads ever made (right after the Mac 1984 one).
Will Rogers? We kind of like him down here. Rogers was born in “Indian Territory”. He was, and is, Cherokee. He said, “my ancestors didn’t come over on the Mayflower, but they met the boat”.
Thanks to Newsqueak, I want to party like it’s 1988 !
Ah. Found it. EDS’ “Airplane”.
http://content.jengajam.com/eds_plane.mpg
(Sorry, launches in QuickTime.)
This is what we are going to be doing as we rebuild our Brand Dem; we have to continue operations day-to-day, but we have to build anew.
What I want to know: when are mouth-flappers like Carville and Emmanuel going to contribute constructively to this process?
John Casper @
80
You are absolutely correct in your analysis. It is my opinion that we are in meta-conflict between participatory democracy and corporte/jesus camp fascisim. I think there are alot of fellow travellers in the CJCF Republican party. Lieberman is a turncoat/double agent in this battle.
It is a gamble to play the ethically correct card vesus the pragmatic gains majority rule. It is hard to judge the outcome, but Lieberman will forever more be a prostitute…and that is not the higher moral ground.
Thanks TSF 4 your 9:17.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 90
Norske, I always appreciate your comments.
AZ-05 Mitchell V. Hayworth is going into its second recount demanded by the blowheart Hayworth with Mitchell up 5,000 votes but the delay is the thousands of early mail in ballots which have NOT been counted (one is mine).
This is a very interesting race. Mitchell told the grassroots groups that he did not need us to win… if he looses this race…. IT will be the DLC CW that did it…… THE only reason he is ahead is totally due to JD Hayworth alone.
Having received more votes than any other candidate in the USA on Tuesday, DiFi spends some political capital — butting heads together to keep the 49ers in EssEff.
Sheesh.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…..MB1GL1.DTL
Oklahoma kiddo @ 96
“Lettin’ the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier ‘n puttin’ it back in” Also Will Rogers
Somehow appropriate given the video
John Casper @ 100
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayo…..ass_II.htm
dead last @ 99
I think the democrats have to take the lead and insist.
the democrats need to put something importan on the table that we know joe will have to stab cheney and bush in the back to support, we need to do this IMMEDIATELY
we tell joeif he even THINKS about voting outside the block he looses his seat on everything and we declare him persona non gratta
my parents used to buy me something I REALLY wanted, then when I did something wrong they would withold that item
EVERY time they tried that I threw the thing out or broke it.
even as a child, I can not STAND to be blackmailed by what is mine.
make him behave or toss him to the party of losers, he wants to be on board the winning train, force his stand IMMEDIATELY, make him burn his republcian bridges (britches?)
Mornin Redd- and thanks for bringing up the political issue that most seem to want to forget about. When pundits discuss the gooper loss last week- they NEVER mention social security- and yet it was the issue that first led to Clusterfuck’s demise.
The dems had a lot to do with it- but more importantly was the AARP who said “Not just no- but HELL no” and beat the living shit out of Clusterfuck everywhere he went.
It was a HUGE political miscalculation on Clusterfuck’s part- and even when he had lost 15 approval points- and support for his plan was losing ground daily- he refused to change course (sound familiar).
Any postmortem of this election that doesn’t mention that period is bankrupt.
Thanks for bringing it up.
Here’s New Mexico, from SecState:
Madrid-R ahead of Wilson-D
The following counties are not complete:
Bernalillo, Grant, Rio Arriba, Sandoval, Santa Fe, and Taos
Provisional ballot totals are not included until the meeting of the County Canvass Board.
This page displays PRELIMINARY election results only. These results DO NOT reflect any provisional ballot totals and are for UNOFFICIAL reporting purposes only. Final election results will be available after the State Election Canvass has been completed. [end SecSt]
egr: Madrid leads by 1,600 with 4,400 left to count, source Elliott AP.
katymine @ 63
social security is more then a retirement fund
it funds disease, accidents, and a host of other programs, it is a social security program, not a retirement program, though retirement is part of the umbrella
Sorry to be OfT, but there’s another DiFi article that begs for your attention:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…..MBBGT1.DTL
Can’t take the city outta the girl, she sez.
Teddy SanFran at 81 did we win the lottery! The GOP has a lot more senate seats to defend during a presidential year with an open primary and no as yet front runner! Which means 3 or 4 guys spend several million or hundred million dollars of GOP money just to figure out who runs against us. Also the GOP has a lot more senators defending their seats at a million a piece. Plus all the GOP senators who are likly to retire which would throw their races open with 2 or 3 guys spending close to a million just for a primary. We have less Senate seats to defend so less primaries less cost. Now all we need to do is provide good government for 2 years and bring the troops home and we got this election!
Can’t someone get Bill Cohen to talk to Susan Collins about coming over from the dark side? Then Harry can tell Joe to just go play with his friends and STFU. (And Collins can keep the chairmanship of the Homeland Security committee, Joe gets double-burned, and no real Democrats have to give up their chairmanships for the deal.)
50 states baby! We need to run competent, progressive candidates in every one of those races to get the Thugs to spend all their money. Spread ‘em out and run up the middle to daylight.
Looks like they’re setting up for McCain/Liarman in ‘08:
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/…..aq-troops/
*Birds of a feather and all that…
Uh, I hate to be a realist, but could we just get another Democratic Senator for our majority firstbefore we take down Joe Liarman and have the Republican Governor of CT appoint a Republican replacement?
Or are we going to “Ralph Nader” the U.S. Senate?
I’m not for praising the Connecticut SOB, and I’m fine for not letting him pull the party to the right, but in terms of our overall agenda, exposing him further (such as his slush fund) isn’t going to help us now.
The choice is no longer between Liarman and Lamont. It’s between a Senator who at least initially votes with the D’s to organize the Senate and one who gets appointed by a Republican Governor in his place and switches the Senate back to the Republicans.
windje @ 104
Very good. Quite applicable.
Lou Costello @ 114
republicans love lieverman, that might be a winning ticket
gore/feingold to the rescue
TeddySanFran @ 92
Snort. If Rahm’s Losers had made a bigger splash, that argument might even make some kind of sense.
So who do we court? Chaffee’s been voted out, can’t really court him and still achieve our ends.
What Repug Senator out there is unhappy with his party and would consider leaving if they were given encouragement?
Of course we should be prepping for Doolittle’s departure and a special election by funding Charlie Brown — but is there another moderate we could swing?
Olympia Snowe? Another?
So what just happened- was it a one time dem loss fueled by gross gooper incompetence, or is it the beginning of a new period of dem competitiveness- or even dominance?
Well it sure wouldn’t have happened if people weren’t so pissed at the goopers- so dems shouldn’t take their own press clippings TOO seriously- and the red states didn’t all just turn blue overnight.
The next campaign won’t have Clusterfuck in it- both parties will have a chance to re-invent themselves around a presidential candidate. If dems can keep Ohio and Virginia on the dem side of the ledger- then it could be a LONG period between victories for the Clusterfuckers.
Virginia is probably a good bellweather. If something plays there- it’s probably a winner.
over at Kos, a lot of regular Kossites urging us to accept Shumer zomibiedom. Resistance is futile, it seems. They love him.
Prof- ya mean we shouldn’t give up the senate to spite Lieberman?
Pretty outrageous idea.
CluelessJoe…I hope the CT voters for Joe are happy with this idiot:
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/…..alignment/
Rayne @ 119
See my 112.
Susan Collins. As Prof Foland has pointed out, Snowe just got reelected.
A wonderful comedienne, Lotus Weinstock, once suggested that women with, um, big brass ones, I guess, be complimented on their eggs, e.g., “that Nancy Pelosi – she’s got eggs.” One syllable, easily modified by brass, steel, iron, etc.
Just a thought.
Lou Costello @ 122
Juck Loe Fieberman.
Collins and Snow are secure apparently. Specter might be willin to take a stroll. Then there’s the odd situation in Wyoming- where the gooper senator has come down with a case of Luekemia and there’s a dem governor.
Cowboy dem?
perris, formerly known as me to me, @ 109
I know… in my former life… I was a Medical Case Manager (Transplant CM) for heath insurance companies assisting patients in their applications for SSD. Kind of sad when SSD applications are denied for cancer patients. Assisting the spouse application for dependent SSI survivor benefits for them and the children. Helping them when they are denied, contacting their Senator’s office to assist with the approval office, speed up the approval time line so that families do not have to declare bankruptcy.
One of the major reasons for enacting the family leave act was for family members who need to take time off of work to care for sick family members. Parents who are dealing with children with catastrophic diseases lose their jobs plus their health insurance due to high number of days off from work.
Re Reid being a boxer:
So was Senator-Elect Webb. And it shows in his responses to attacks.
Glorfindel — I see John Campanelli put up a diary in re: Circular Firing Squad Trolls, responsive to your point. Not to worry. I’m pretty sure the majority of Kossacks and the net/grassroots don’t subscribe to Schumer’s backstabbing.
In re: persuading cross-overs from Repug Senators –
The low-hanging fruits are the Main Street Repugs, I think, tend to be moderates. There are a few major exceptions (like McCain and Specter), but there are others we should be encouraging to consider changing party:
* Norm Coleman, Minnesota
* Susan Collins, Maine
* Johnny Isakson, Georgia
* John McCain, Arizona
* Gordon Smith, Oregon
* Olympia Snowe, Maine
* Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania
Collins, Snowe and Coleman look most likely.
What can we offer them?
Axis? Lieberman, Clinton, Schumer. If we’re not careful and aggressive, these guys will decide for us.
LindaR — sorry, must have been typing my comment when your 112 posted.
Exactly my point — GMTA.
TeddySanFran @ 81
Biden and Landrieu definitely need a good Lamonting.
I knew it…I KNEW IT!!! ~ Being a Repuglibot is a disease. But there is hope:
http://www.opednews.com/articl…..28the_.htm
EvilDrPuma — I figure we have a solid two months to come up with primary candidates to oppose Biden and Landrieu.
Got some up your sleeves?
Meow.
I just checked the NH stats again over at swing State Project.
I didn’t realized the NH Democrats did so well in the NH house.
Dems gained 6 in the senate for a 14D-10R lead. In the house the Dems picked-up 84 for a lead of 234D-156R in the house.
Thems some apples to be likin’.
-GSD
Rayne @ 128
In Coleman’s case, it might be enough to issue a restraining order against George Galloway.
Hmm- The seat in Lousiana is gonna be pretty vulnerable next time around- we’re missing a half a million or so dem votes in New Orleans.
Want to run a liberal down there?
Rahm better be nice to us I heard yearly KOZ is in Chicago this year if were all pissed off at him and Hilary then Obama might show up give a good speech and win us ALL OVER. Then Rahm can explain to Hilary why the netroots don’t matter, somehow I don’t think she will be as gulible as the mainstreammedia!
Rayne @ 133
Not offhand–I just am not familiar enough with the political scene in Delaware or Louisiana. The edges of the continent are harder to see from the center.
Re Senator Thomas, even if he has leukemia that doesn’t translate into his leaving office. People can get treatment and still work.
He is a popular incumbent who just won his third term with 70% of the vote. I can’t see any pressure for him to step down if they like him that much.
TeddySanFran @ 81
Heh. Cornyn is toast
http://www.surveyusa.com/50Sta…..4State.htm
Rayne @ 129
Before you put Isakson on this list you might want to go here:
http://isakson.senate.gov/
The Lamont candidacy may have done some good- however if it leads to losing the senate- I’d score it a massive brain fart- jury’s still out I guess.
rwcole @ 127
Senator Craig Thomas, R-WY, re-elected Tuesday to a new six-year term, announced he’s beginning treatment for leukemia.
http://thomas.senate.gov/index…..Type=Press Release
Democratic Governor of Wyoming:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/….._100543180
Rayne @ 129
Raine, Snowe just won relection in Maine with 70 %. I don’t know if she’ll change. She can play maverick now that she has the full support of those in her state.
Coleman was a Democrat before he was a Republican so he may just read the tea-leaves and re-flip-flop… Still, Al Franken is going to dump him out of that seat either way.
Specter could possibly pull a Lieberschnitzel and go Indy. As could Hagel in Nebraska in order to garner some pre-presidential buzz.
-GSD
How Israel put Gaza civilians in firing line
http://observer.guardian.co.uk…..98,00.html
OfT: Gerald Ford became the oldest Preznit ever, today!
Re herding cats:
I work with surgeons. Male surgeons.
The exit polling has been fairly clear, the DEMS picked up Latino and moderate votes – that created the victory more than other factors.
From CQ:
“The Democrats dominated among self-described moderates, who made up just less than half of the respondents. The 60 percent to 38 percent Democratic edge among those voters amounted to a 7 percentage-point drop-off for the GOP from 2002″.
BTW, no one I know likes the DLC types. The compelling issue is- can we build an anti-Hillary coalition?
Gordon Smith and John Sununu go on the list of most endangered.
I would like to see former NH Governor Jean Shaheen take on John Jr. again to see if he can win without Jack Abramoff’s money to pay for Ed Gillespie and Ken Mehlman to jam phone lines in the state.
-GSD
Any gooper in the northeast who needs to run statewide should be thinking about getting his dem membership card- cept for Maine- where they still have the gooper party of 1950 and like it that way.
At a minimum, CT roots efforts can taken down Lieberman’s credibility enough so that he can’t serve as a party spokesman anymore. Like on the Sunday shows.
dab from CT @ 41
egregious @ 146
Say no more. Cats are EASY in comparison!
GSD @ 150
That apple surely did not fall to far from the (rotten) Sununu tree. Jean Shaheen!!!
The Prodigal Returns
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15…../newsweek/
If there is one word to sum up George W. Bushs’ miserable and wasted life, it would have to be ‘failure’.
Marion 141 — the list of Senators I provided are those that are members of the Main Street Republican Partnership; they are typically pro-choice, pro-environment, small government types.
What you’re saying tells us that the list can be winnowed further. Looks like we’re down to Snowe. If Coleman switched, he’d be primaried by Franken — or we encourage Coleman to go independent and caucus with us.
Ditto for Snowe.
TeddySanFran @ 144
Also the oldest Preznit never elected!
I’m originally from Oregon- which has a history of moderate gooper senators. It’s a strangely conservative state in some ways- (ya kind of have to be there)- they’ll tolerate a moderate gooper who does his/her job for decades.
EvilDrPuma @ 133
Re Landrieu: The problem is finding a challenger. Politics in Louisiana is blood sport.
tfitznc @ 147
Maybe Grandma Nancy should take Hillary off to one side, and schmooze her along the lines of “we need experienced, popular leadership in the Senate now more than ever…. yadda, yadda, yadda…” to encourage her to stick to her Senate knitting. From everything that I understand she’s VERY GOOD at being a Senator, and now with the Dems in the majority she’ll have all the chance she wants to shine there…
We do not want the Coleman morals on our side.
Or, they will use him against US.
Tfit,
Surprisingly Sununu has been pretty decent as far as a Gooper can be.
He tends to be libertarian on civil rights issues, and he is a little more balanced on matters surrounding Israel/Palestine and the middle east. The NH GOP is also generally environmentally friendly.
That being said, I want his ass out of there next time he’s up.
Also, he doesn’t have the arrogance and smugness that was his father’s stock in trade.
-GSD
Anyone who wants to friday morning quarterback Louisiana politics- better at least go spend a couple of months down there. Ya might change a few opinions.
GSD @ 152
Undoing Sununu would be sweet — how can that election stand after people went to jail for the phone jamming? Clearly folks are seriously riled in NH, given those local results.
CA has 80 Assembly members, each representing 420,000 constituents. What’s your ratio in NH?
Lindy @ 159
Emeril!
-GSD
rwcole @ 164
Exactly.
ReneND — then it comes down to this:
Olympia Snowe.
Need to see if philinmaine at DailyKos wants to vet this concept and stew it over with other grassroots peeps.
ReneND @ 158
Yah, that was kind of what I had in mind with the Galloway illusion. Do we really want Coleman in our corner after that ridiculous display of political inanity? Let’s just let Franken smash him.
NH house of reps is 400.
That’s a biggun!
-GSD
Yeah, Coleman shoud be rebuffed if he tries to flip. Maybe he can join the Party of Two with Stay Away Joe.
-GSD
Have some good friends who moved to Lousiana recently. He’s from Lake Charles- she’s from Oklahoma. Both are dems.
She was havin a great time- till she discovered that their next door neighbor is a grand keagle or whatever it is. Everyone else knew and didn’t think a thing about it. It’s different down there- but dems can win in Louisiana AND in Arkansas (which is actually a pretty nice state).
GSD @ 171
Based on a population of 1.3m, that means each rep reps 3,250 constituents.
rwcole — I’m not going to deny that Louisiana is a complex situation, particularly post-Katrina.
But Landrieu has screwed the country a few times; it’s not just about LA any longer.
You can include nationwide low-cost pervasive WiFi as one of the casualties of her ineptitude.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 66
First week of August iirc.
TeddySanFran @ 81
What I like most is that there’s 12 Democrats and 21(!) Republicans. I like that exposure ratio a bunch.
egregious @ 139
I guess we’ll have to wait and see:
http://www.kgwn.tv/home/headlines/4606041.html
In his statement, Thomas says he plans to be back by the January session for full service in the new congress.
As far as I can tell, the only reason that US troops are still in Iraq is because there is a widely-held but rarely challenged belief, shown by Senators McCain and Lieberman today, that the troops continued presence is necessary to keep a god-awful situation from becoming even worse. In other words, they are there because it’s necessary to cover for a huge strategic blunder by Bush/Cheney that has produce a no-win and only god-awful options situation — and that is the answer to Cindy Sheehan’s question, “Why did my son die?” He died for a mistake.
The sad reality is that many more US soldiers are very likely going to die in Iraq over the next year or so, and they will die for those same mistakes and others that are still likely to come. They will die because the Bush Administration and it’s neocon drivers lied to get us into the war and then lied about what was happening, and then managed almost every aspect in a criminally negligent fashion. Moreover, despite the departure of Rumsfeld, most the architects of these mistakes are still in power, both in the Administration and in Congress.
There are no credible proposals for removing US troops that do not involve the additional deaths of substantial numbers of them, as well as untold deaths of Iraqis. McCain conceded this indirectly today — he was remarkable candid — and he has apparently accepted the logic that we either try to restore order with more troops, with no assurance that will work (he said that today), or we leave and accept the prospects of more chaos and killing; Lieberman is still in denial about the stark realities of these awful choices, or he is lying about this. Both are likely.
There are no credible proposals that do not lead to the deaths of thousands of more Iraqis. There are no magic conferences, or UN/NATO/Arab resuces, that will prevent this. Our soldiers are dying for our government’s mistakes and they will continue to do that.
The only useful discussion is about which of several god-awful choices is the least god-awful. And we don’t even know how to think about that question, because most of the leadership, on both sides, is not willing to say that this is the reality we face.
YK first week of August iirc.
Are they going to call it “Y2K”? :)
Marion in Savannah @ 160
Yes, I think that there is more than a germ of truth in the assessment that she is a very good senator for NY. If nominated and elected, I think she would be a good exemplar of the ‘Peter Principle’. I dont think she can be elected. The progressives need to coalesce early
Rayne– Yeah well I have friends from there, travel there, and did a lot of business there for decades. I’ve played golf with cajuns (who actually enjoy throwin snakes at each other more than hitting the ball).. But after all that– I wouldn’t feel qualified to give any political advice about the place. It’s NOT transparent!
That bein said- no one knows how ta have more fun faster than cajuns!
rwcole @ 160
I dearly love Oregon. Especially up around Tillamook. Me and some college friends were once refused service in a Coos Bay bar. ‘Cause we had Cali driver’s licenses. I think this incident had something to with “don’t Californicate Oregon”. Cannot quibble w/that.
Frank Rich in today’s NYT, “2006: The Year of the ‘Macaca’ ” is getting to sound like he’s been listening to Keith Olbermann.
I like to think the ghost of Edward R. Murrow is moving among us.
scarecrow 175 — did you see this today?
One killed, 11 kidnapped at fake checkpoint in Iraq
That’s the title of the story appearing in my Google News, but the actual story attached never mentions this situation.
We have to get out. Could have been our troops that were kidnapped by insurgents or al Qaeda masquerading as Iraqi forces. We are not doing ourselves any good, and we’re certainly not helping them enough to rationalize $6300/minute expenditure in Iraq.
rwcole @ 160
True all. However, we just reelected a not-very-popular D Gov, and 4 of the 5 House seats are blue. We’re gonna be gunning for Smith and I two things are worth watching:
1.) How far to the left will Smith swing over the next two years to endear himself to the majority of Oregonians that rw accurately describes?
and
2.) Who will we put up against him? If it’s Kitzhaber, Smith goes down for sure. I will probably reregister as a D (from I) so I can vote in that primary.
e@150 Female surgeons are just as bad..More often than not the ass-hole quotient is inversely proportional to competence.
e@139..not to be to morbid, but AML in a 73 year old is not good
Oklahoma- I still love it too- except for the six months where it rains nearly every day. I always spend a lot of time in the summer up there. Eugene is may favorite place- my brother and I own a small business there. Great town- and the coast is great- and Bend is great- and Ashland is fun- and Portland has the best downtown on the west coast- etc.
oregondave @ 181
Rich has been up swinging the bat for a while now. He’s been around for ages, and he knows crap when he sees crap.
S. R. Sidarth reframes his earlier commentary to incorporate Virginia’s happy result in today’s WaPo:
A Virginia Welcome: I Am Macaca
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01381.html
rwcole @ 189
My sister owns a motel in Grass Pants, right on the Rogue River. Beautiful spot, quiet and peaceful and charming.
She’s chairman of the Josephine County Dems this year. When she started going to meetings she was a full 20 years younger than the youngest member and they were THRILLED to see her. My fifty year old sister thought it hysterical that they were happy that the “youngsters” were gettiing involved.
rwcole @ 187
God do I miss Saturday Market!
My parents live in Florence, ex-father-in-law lives in Grants Pass….
rwcole — yeah, I got you on that; have friends who migrated here from NOLA area, still have family there. They’ve told me stories that are both hilarious and bizarre. These same emigres are damned shrewd political schemers, taught me a lot that I figure they learned while still in their milk teeth in NOLA.
But we still have the issue of national impact; cannot believe there is not a progressive candidate in LA that can walk-the-walk against Landrieu.
New thread, gang. Enjoy!
Rayne @ 185
Thanks for the link. I also read the extensive and chiling account in the NYT today, about the US officers having to intervene to keep the Iraqi appointed general from rounding up all the Sunni political officials, just because they were Sunni. As Murtha has been saying, we’re stuck in the middle of mutual sectarian cleansing [killing], and it may well be true that this would be worse if we were not there. At the same time, our presence is creating other problems. There are no good options, no moral absolutes to make this easier — and in the meantime, we still have an administration still fixated on the idea that we can, somehow unspecified, “win,” and the only bipartisan discussion they’re interested in is about options for “winning.”
I don’t trust the Bush I rescuers to have more than an marginally better willingness to embrace the reality.
A rational discussion would start with the necessity of removing Bush and Cheney and their coterie from office. Then we could say, “they made a huge mistake; we’re now ready to accept the consequences and will accept the best ideas for removing ourselves from the violence.” As long as this regime stays in power, there is no way we can get there, because these are not honorable men.
katymine @ 193
My Dad and his wife live in Florence!
Here…
http://www.greentreesvillage.com/
Wow, lots of Oregonians, ex-Oregonians, or FDL’ers with family here. I’m in Ashland, absolutely love it here! We don’t get the rain of the northern half of the state either. They call it the Banana Belt. Have a cabin on Diamond Lake, so get to drive along the Rogue every weekend in the summer. What a river.
We are a kind of unique Independent state – see: death with dignity act, medical marijuana, protected shorelines, and a massive distrust of big govt. Still not sure how we make inroads, politically, in the vast central and eastern interiors though.
rwcole @ 160
Oregonians have long seen themselves as geographically divided. Portland has been called “Little Beirut” by the Repubs for the number of radical activists and intensity of protest when Bush or Cheney have ventured here (under armed guard).
The rural parts of the state have been the conservative territories; conservative in the way that we see Montana electing a Testor, or Arizona producing what John Dean calls “conservatives with a conscience.” More independent, grounded sensibilty. The kind of Republicans our country needs if we’re to continue to have the benefits of a healthy two-party system.
We’ve had Republicans such as Governor (and then Senator) Mark Hatfield, who was one of the first in the Senate to oppose the Vietnam war. Wayne Morse was a Republican before he switched parties. Governor Tom McCall left us a wonderful conservation legacy.
Gordon Smith? I don’t know. Ron Wyden works with him well. He’s got a respect for the land. Maybe he’ll be part of the repudiation of this BushCo criminal regime and turn out to epitomize the type of Republican our country needs.
Doolittle is in the House. For now.
Rayne @ 119
My representative said the reason the Democrats would not have a social security proposal was so that everone would have to talk about what the president proposed. When one of the Dcats said he had a plan the speaker said if we put out your plan, everone will talk about it, and not about what the President is proposing.
They said they knew their plan was effective when Republicans started claming the Democrats were lying…there was only going to be a 36 billion dollar short fall in the out years, not the 40 billion the Democrats claimed.
egregious — thanks, should have checked my Wikipedia. So damned anxious to get past the 50-50 “DeadEye Zone” that I’ll throw anybody in the Senate.
But we do need to help Charlie Brown when the time comes. Still need a veto-proof house.
christy’s up with a great new post….
Adie @ 46
Not that I am excusing them, because I think their behavior was inexcusable, but I don’t think that Emmanuel/Schumer had any idea that we would take the Senate and that Lieberman would be put in such a position of power. (Only visionaries like Dean and the Netroots could envision the possibility!) So their own self-interest has led to this mess.
Unfortunately, unless we can convince a Repug to leave the dark side behind and change party affililiation, we will need to play at least a little of Lieberman’s game for the next two years. The price of loosing the majority in the Senate, along with all of those committee chairmanships, would be too great not to.
(I am assuming that in the case that there is a 50-50 Senate which becomes Repug with Cheney’s vote, that Cheney would dump the precedent of allowing the Dems to have half of the chairmanships and keep all of the chairmanships in the Repug party. There is no law preventing him from doing this.)
Just to show you how Lieberman won in Ct (with 70% Republican support) I offer a frustrating conversation I had the day before the election, with one of the moms who volunteers in our school library.
She came in Monday morning, almost gleeful in taunting my support for Lamont, calling him “smarmy”. I asked her to support her namecalling, but she couldn’t come up with anything at all. She just kept annoying me and I finally walked away.
This is the same woman who has dual citizenship…Candadian and U.S. She and her husband are prepared to take their high school boys back to Canada if they are ever in jeopardy of going to Iraq. And YET they had no qualms voting for Lieberman, who now has expressed the need to send more troops and has been a cheerleader for Bush and the occupation.
I do not understand the utter selfishness (or stupidity) of people such as this woman. In reality Lamont was her ideal candidate. Go figure.
scarecrow — the “winning Iraq” talk is so damned irrational; it’s that kind of talk that makes me want to b*tch-slap some sense into Lieberman.
What kind of special moron can look at the news in the article I linked (which didn’t include the fake checkpoint) and not see that the closest we can come to winning is leaving?
I think we’re up against a federal partition in Iraq; I can only think of one person with the chops to navigate this and it’s Wesley Clark. Partitioning and exiting might be the only thing that saves an entire culture in Iraq.
Cozumel@197
My Dad works for Habitat for Humanity 2 days a week building houses, he turned 83 in August. Bought a new F150 Truck to lug around his tools.
My Aunt & Uncle owned a place in GreenTrees and now my cousin owns it.
katymine @ 207
My Dad is 79 and retired DIA. His wife is retired U.S. Customs. Both are Goopers and “pack heat” (guns)! LOL
bookwoman 205 — I’d have been sorely tempted to say:
“You know what’s smarmy? Criticizing American democratic process while holding foreign citizenship as a hedge.”
That’s what makes Michelle Malkin’s position on internment so damned disgusting; she’s technically got dual Philippino-American citizenship, has an out in her back pocket all the time. Smarmy.
Rayne @ 209
I was tempted to say a lot of things to her, but when you’re dealing with the Michele Malkins of the world it’s like talking to the wall. Agreed, hedging their bets with feet in 2 countries is definitely smarmy.
I have a feeling that Nancy Pelosi will know a way to bust Lieberman’s cojones if he doesn’t behave. (I love Spanish.) :)
Mommybrain @ 183
LOL