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	<title>Comments on: 12 Reasons Not to Trust Chuck Schumer</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/</link>
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		<title>By: jman_nyc</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379882</link>
		<dc:creator>jman_nyc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379882</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This should all have been obvious to most. Schumer, Lieberman, Clinton have all run away from politicians in their own party that have taken strong stands against Bush and the war, Murtha and Feingold for example.&lt;br /&gt;
I hate to say it but, they are controlled by the money that flows from Zionists like Rupert Murdoch. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No one here is arguing for a lock-step march within the party, we are arguing for integrity, trust, and a government that is responsive to voters not powerful corporations.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This should all have been obvious to most. Schumer, Lieberman, Clinton have all run away from politicians in their own party that have taken strong stands against Bush and the war, Murtha and Feingold for example.<br />
I hate to say it but, they are controlled by the money that flows from Zionists like Rupert Murdoch. </p>
<p>No one here is arguing for a lock-step march within the party, we are arguing for integrity, trust, and a government that is responsive to voters not powerful corporations.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Feldman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379878</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Feldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379878</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah…this is a good post.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The reason there’s no ‘trust’ right now is pretty straightforward in my mind.   Progressives in the netroots see themselves as having worked really, really hard to win back the Congress, and the Dems in DC were happy to have all the volunteers, money, etc.  And then the Dems win and the first thing that happens is a whole big discussion about how the radical liberal netroots will take over the party if we’re not careful.  So, Harry Reid posts a “thank you” note on Kos, but the rest of the conversation shifted to “Oh, no!  Someone call pest control before these progressives ruin everything…”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;How should Reid improve communication between the netroots and the party leaders?  Well, for starters Reid needs to make a public statement acknowledging how glad he is that the grassroots  of the party helped win the election.   That has not happened, yet.  I mean…HELLO!  Instead we get the sudden return of James Carville–who was in the restaraunt business last time I checked.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So…how about a hat tip, Harry?  How about a little more than an invitation-only conference call with a few selected bloggers? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Dem leadership had the trust of the netroots–and they &lt;i&gt;lost it&lt;/i&gt; in the 72 hours since Wednesday morning.   And now, frankly, we’re all waiting around to see which Democratic Presidential candidate is going to stand up first and accuse us of being what’s wrong with America.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The risk is huge, here, and the Dems in DC do not see it yet.  They do not see how much the netroots invested of themselves in this election, and how much people felt a sense of exclusion after the victory.  Those kinds of snubs have a lasting impact, but there is still time to make it right.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah…this is a good post.</p>
<p>The reason there’s no ‘trust’ right now is pretty straightforward in my mind.   Progressives in the netroots see themselves as having worked really, really hard to win back the Congress, and the Dems in DC were happy to have all the volunteers, money, etc.  And then the Dems win and the first thing that happens is a whole big discussion about how the radical liberal netroots will take over the party if we’re not careful.  So, Harry Reid posts a “thank you” note on Kos, but the rest of the conversation shifted to “Oh, no!  Someone call pest control before these progressives ruin everything…”</p>
<p>How should Reid improve communication between the netroots and the party leaders?  Well, for starters Reid needs to make a public statement acknowledging how glad he is that the grassroots  of the party helped win the election.   That has not happened, yet.  I mean…HELLO!  Instead we get the sudden return of James Carville–who was in the restaraunt business last time I checked.   </p>
<p>So…how about a hat tip, Harry?  How about a little more than an invitation-only conference call with a few selected bloggers? </p>
<p>The Dem leadership had the trust of the netroots–and they <i>lost it</i> in the 72 hours since Wednesday morning.   And now, frankly, we’re all waiting around to see which Democratic Presidential candidate is going to stand up first and accuse us of being what’s wrong with America.  </p>
<p>The risk is huge, here, and the Dems in DC do not see it yet.  They do not see how much the netroots invested of themselves in this election, and how much people felt a sense of exclusion after the victory.  Those kinds of snubs have a lasting impact, but there is still time to make it right.</p>
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		<title>By: DonS</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379841</link>
		<dc:creator>DonS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379841</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Re discussion of Israel-Palestine and AIPAC upthread, virtually all poplitcians are up to their ears in AIPAC money/influence, Reid included. Pelosi include.  Hell, just about everyone.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Breaking that connection, ok moderating it to where its not the gorilla in the room, is a big part of getting some integrity back in US politics.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You’re not going to get that from Schumer or Clinton.  We have to keep talking about it and maybe, maybe, someone one will eventually listen.  But at this point its a tail wagging dog venture,with the comeback being “antisemitc, antisemitc!  To put it crudely, that puppy’s gotta be drowned.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re discussion of Israel-Palestine and AIPAC upthread, virtually all poplitcians are up to their ears in AIPAC money/influence, Reid included. Pelosi include.  Hell, just about everyone.</p>
<p>Breaking that connection, ok moderating it to where its not the gorilla in the room, is a big part of getting some integrity back in US politics.  </p>
<p>You’re not going to get that from Schumer or Clinton.  We have to keep talking about it and maybe, maybe, someone one will eventually listen.  But at this point its a tail wagging dog venture,with the comeback being “antisemitc, antisemitc!  To put it crudely, that puppy’s gotta be drowned.</p>
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		<title>By: Loretta</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379820</link>
		<dc:creator>Loretta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379820</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As millions were protesting the impending Iraqi war, I wrote to Schumer pleading for an anti-war vote/stance. His reply was so condescending (in effect telling me that there was so much I did’t know about the need to invade Iraq and that I need to listen to his august judgment) that I had to reply to his reply. I wrote that, as my elected representative, it was his job to listen to me and the rest of his constituents, not the other way around. Schumer is an oily opportunist, an eager self-promoter, a better grade Lieberman and a perfect example of the entrenched status-quo beltway dems. And his treatment of Dean is disgraceful and dangerous - the Dems would not have won without Dean. I hope we can limit or vote out the Schumers and Liebermans. Thanks for bringing this issue into the light.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As millions were protesting the impending Iraqi war, I wrote to Schumer pleading for an anti-war vote/stance. His reply was so condescending (in effect telling me that there was so much I did’t know about the need to invade Iraq and that I need to listen to his august judgment) that I had to reply to his reply. I wrote that, as my elected representative, it was his job to listen to me and the rest of his constituents, not the other way around. Schumer is an oily opportunist, an eager self-promoter, a better grade Lieberman and a perfect example of the entrenched status-quo beltway dems. And his treatment of Dean is disgraceful and dangerous &#8211; the Dems would not have won without Dean. I hope we can limit or vote out the Schumers and Liebermans. Thanks for bringing this issue into the light.</p>
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		<title>By: tessa</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379800</link>
		<dc:creator>tessa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379800</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Quote, “We’re not Limbaugh or Fox News”.&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, you are. Don’t be so self congradulating.&lt;br /&gt;
This web site has become shrill.&lt;br /&gt;
No one can see themselves for the trees. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m a life long democrat. make phone calls and canvas for the democratic party, worked in FL in 2006 - I’m an independent, free-spirited person and don’t like the military march you’re singing for conformity within the party. Reading this entry I had flash backs to Animal Farm. How horrible is that?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote, “We’re not Limbaugh or Fox News”.<br />
Yes, you are. Don’t be so self congradulating.<br />
This web site has become shrill.<br />
No one can see themselves for the trees. </p>
<p>I’m a life long democrat. make phone calls and canvas for the democratic party, worked in FL in 2006 &#8211; I’m an independent, free-spirited person and don’t like the military march you’re singing for conformity within the party. Reading this entry I had flash backs to Animal Farm. How horrible is that?</p>
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		<title>By: youkillednoodle</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379796</link>
		<dc:creator>youkillednoodle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379796</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Forgive me if this has been posted, but at some point we are going to have to start our own party.  Focus on a few blue states to start, and build from there.  No pac money, no compromise…The People’s Party.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Might I suggest L. Chaffee as our first Senator.    I agree he had to go as a repug, but as our candidate he would be an excellent choice.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I hate having to type this, but as a great (ass of a) president once said, “Fool me once….”.  We all know where this is heading, and I DON’T LIKE THE SCENERY ON THIS RIDE.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgive me if this has been posted, but at some point we are going to have to start our own party.  Focus on a few blue states to start, and build from there.  No pac money, no compromise…The People’s Party.</p>
<p>Might I suggest L. Chaffee as our first Senator.    I agree he had to go as a repug, but as our candidate he would be an excellent choice.   </p>
<p>I hate having to type this, but as a great (ass of a) president once said, “Fool me once….”.  We all know where this is heading, and I DON’T LIKE THE SCENERY ON THIS RIDE.</p>
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		<title>By: dkmich</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379794</link>
		<dc:creator>dkmich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379794</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We’ll kumbayah just as soon as they do.  I don’t trust Schumer, Emanuel, Obama or Hillary.  I am sick and tired of DLC/K Street politicians.  It is the blogs that have given ordinary people a voice - not the GD Democrats. The DC insiders don’t have a clue.  Corruption means them too - selling out to lobbyists, and telling people like us to kiss their ass because they own this party - not us, the people.  Please keep on giving them an earful for us.  The blogs are the only voice we have.  While you guys do some coordination, you do so little with us.  Maybe you can’t, and we need to be better at reading between everyone’s lines.  All I know is that thanks to blogs and Dean, I’ve never had so much power as a citizen.  I will donate to Dean, but I didn’t and won’t give a dime to the DSCC or the DCCC.  In 06, you guys tried the carat.  In o8, I think we will need the stick.  Please not Obama or Hillary.  One is a preachy religious novice, and the other is the Queen of of K Street.  Noooooooo!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We’ll kumbayah just as soon as they do.  I don’t trust Schumer, Emanuel, Obama or Hillary.  I am sick and tired of DLC/K Street politicians.  It is the blogs that have given ordinary people a voice &#8211; not the GD Democrats. The DC insiders don’t have a clue.  Corruption means them too &#8211; selling out to lobbyists, and telling people like us to kiss their ass because they own this party &#8211; not us, the people.  Please keep on giving them an earful for us.  The blogs are the only voice we have.  While you guys do some coordination, you do so little with us.  Maybe you can’t, and we need to be better at reading between everyone’s lines.  All I know is that thanks to blogs and Dean, I’ve never had so much power as a citizen.  I will donate to Dean, but I didn’t and won’t give a dime to the DSCC or the DCCC.  In 06, you guys tried the carat.  In o8, I think we will need the stick.  Please not Obama or Hillary.  One is a preachy religious novice, and the other is the Queen of of K Street.  Noooooooo!</p>
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		<title>By: c u n d gulag</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379785</link>
		<dc:creator>c u n d gulag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379785</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Chuck,&lt;br /&gt;
Ya done good…&lt;br /&gt;
Dean did better!&lt;br /&gt;
And WE rocked!&lt;br /&gt;
The “50 States Program” tops the “Targeted Races” agenda, sorry.  Now, get over it!&lt;br /&gt;
We need to be UNITED right now, not DIVIDED, Chuck and Rahm.&lt;br /&gt;
You, Dean, and we in the netroot’s, all helped to win this election. Equally…&lt;br /&gt;
Let’s all enjoy the victory.&lt;br /&gt;
And work TOGETHER in the future.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Together!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Peace, out…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chuck,<br />
Ya done good…<br />
Dean did better!<br />
And WE rocked!<br />
The “50 States Program” tops the “Targeted Races” agenda, sorry.  Now, get over it!<br />
We need to be UNITED right now, not DIVIDED, Chuck and Rahm.<br />
You, Dean, and we in the netroot’s, all helped to win this election. Equally…<br />
Let’s all enjoy the victory.<br />
And work TOGETHER in the future.</p>
<p>Together!</p>
<p>Peace, out…</p>
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		<title>By: Professor Foland</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379784</link>
		<dc:creator>Professor Foland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379784</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Linda–&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you’re still around.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Most of us are acutely aware that the middle of a distribution has more in it than the tails.  We perfectly understand the politics part of what Schumer is doing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There’s a right way and a wrong way to do what Schumer is trying to do, preserving the gains post-victory.  The right way is to spread credit around, bring everyone together, recognize the contributions, and use the left wing of your party for two purposes:  to pull the cultural discussion further your way (Google “Overton Window” if you don’t know what I mean by this), and to slowly lead the voters.  In fact, if you have a very trusting relationship with them, you can even demonize your left wing a little.  If I really believed that the Schumers of the party trusted us, wanted us, listened to us, then I’d be perfectly happy to be cast occasionally as the bad cop.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You are 100% right that voters turn off anything too far away from them;  just as I see students turn off anything that’s too far advanced for them.  But that just means you slow down and build up to bring them along.  It doesn’t mean saying “They’ll never understand.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Schumer approach, as it is playing out publicly, is essnetially saying, “We can’t educate the voters, we can’t convince them, they’ll never understand, so we should just go where they are.”  That’s not leadership, and it’s a waste of a big victory.  As I think Emma Anne said, we’ll go back to sucking.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Over the last two years, we have educated the voters.  Nothing essential has been learned since 2004.  In 2004, Iraq was a disaster, Bush had lied about it, Bush was grabbing all the power he could, Abu Ghraib had already happened, and everyone who cared to know about all of this did.  The corruption of the Delay machine was well-known.  Every single issue that voters gave for the voting in 2006 was &lt;em&gt;already on the table in 2004&lt;/em&gt;.  Yet he was reelected.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What changed was we educated people over the last two years.  “We” here is everyone, but I think the netroots did play a special role in that–especially in pushing an a position of open and unembarrased opposition for the 2006 campaign.  Lamont absolutely, positively led to this;  there’s no doubt among anyone who will speak openly with you about it.  People forget how unlikely he was considered to win &lt;em&gt;even the primary&lt;/em&gt; just four months ago.  It scared a lot of people in DC.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My midwest farmer 65-year old father, precisely the sort of person you’d probably say we’re completely turning off, has become an Americablog fan.  We’re reaching people you’d be very surprised at.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And $19M may or may not be pocket change, but the point is: this time, we won the Senate only by a pocket-change margin. It’s a simple fact:  had that $19M been spent in VA or MT, we wouldn’t be talking about how to preserve our victory.  We wouldn’t have one.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linda–</p>
<p>If you’re still around.</p>
<p>Most of us are acutely aware that the middle of a distribution has more in it than the tails.  We perfectly understand the politics part of what Schumer is doing.</p>
<p>There’s a right way and a wrong way to do what Schumer is trying to do, preserving the gains post-victory.  The right way is to spread credit around, bring everyone together, recognize the contributions, and use the left wing of your party for two purposes:  to pull the cultural discussion further your way (Google “Overton Window” if you don’t know what I mean by this), and to slowly lead the voters.  In fact, if you have a very trusting relationship with them, you can even demonize your left wing a little.  If I really believed that the Schumers of the party trusted us, wanted us, listened to us, then I’d be perfectly happy to be cast occasionally as the bad cop.  </p>
<p>You are 100% right that voters turn off anything too far away from them;  just as I see students turn off anything that’s too far advanced for them.  But that just means you slow down and build up to bring them along.  It doesn’t mean saying “They’ll never understand.”</p>
<p>The Schumer approach, as it is playing out publicly, is essnetially saying, “We can’t educate the voters, we can’t convince them, they’ll never understand, so we should just go where they are.”  That’s not leadership, and it’s a waste of a big victory.  As I think Emma Anne said, we’ll go back to sucking.  </p>
<p>Over the last two years, we have educated the voters.  Nothing essential has been learned since 2004.  In 2004, Iraq was a disaster, Bush had lied about it, Bush was grabbing all the power he could, Abu Ghraib had already happened, and everyone who cared to know about all of this did.  The corruption of the Delay machine was well-known.  Every single issue that voters gave for the voting in 2006 was <em>already on the table in 2004</em>.  Yet he was reelected.</p>
<p>What changed was we educated people over the last two years.  “We” here is everyone, but I think the netroots did play a special role in that–especially in pushing an a position of open and unembarrased opposition for the 2006 campaign.  Lamont absolutely, positively led to this;  there’s no doubt among anyone who will speak openly with you about it.  People forget how unlikely he was considered to win <em>even the primary</em> just four months ago.  It scared a lot of people in DC.</p>
<p>My midwest farmer 65-year old father, precisely the sort of person you’d probably say we’re completely turning off, has become an Americablog fan.  We’re reaching people you’d be very surprised at.</p>
<p>And $19M may or may not be pocket change, but the point is: this time, we won the Senate only by a pocket-change margin. It’s a simple fact:  had that $19M been spent in VA or MT, we wouldn’t be talking about how to preserve our victory.  We wouldn’t have one.</p>
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		<title>By: deandra</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379782</link>
		<dc:creator>deandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/11/fdl-late-nite-12-reasons-not-to-trust-chuck-schumer/#comment-379782</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s this “drift” that Schumer doesn’t get.  Americans are NOT conservative.  Nothing about us (dress, language, music, entertainment, how we think, how we play, etc.) is conservative.  He’s had too many sips of the republican kool aid.  I say to Schumer, stop inflicting your erroneous opinions, that were shaped by republicans, on the democratic party.  You’re trying to ‘play it safe’ in a country who just voted the bums out!  You’re a power monster who likes to throw his weight around.  Why if it isn’t Paul Hackett of Ohio, it’s Howard Dean.  Your thinking is off — way off.  Get with the program.  Get off the soapbox.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s this “drift” that Schumer doesn’t get.  Americans are NOT conservative.  Nothing about us (dress, language, music, entertainment, how we think, how we play, etc.) is conservative.  He’s had too many sips of the republican kool aid.  I say to Schumer, stop inflicting your erroneous opinions, that were shaped by republicans, on the democratic party.  You’re trying to ‘play it safe’ in a country who just voted the bums out!  You’re a power monster who likes to throw his weight around.  Why if it isn’t Paul Hackett of Ohio, it’s Howard Dean.  Your thinking is off — way off.  Get with the program.  Get off the soapbox.</p>
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