Sources said Schumer has agreed to Senate Majority Leader-in-waiting Harry Reid's request that he stay on as head of the Democratic campaign committee for another two years, partly to counter the growing influence of liberals like Sen. Ted Kennedy and Rep. Nancy Pelosi.
Reid and other party bosses believe Schumer's middle-of-the-road strategy in recruiting a fistful of moderate candidates to knock off GOP incumbents in red states is the only way for Democrats to hold onto or increase their power.
"You have to save the party from not drifting too far over," Schumer told The Post yesterday.
Officials determined the best way for Schumer to play that role is to stay on as the head of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee until the 2008 elections, a decision the Brooklyn lawmaker committed to yesterday.
I was on a blogger conference call with Harry Reid the other day. He asked what structural, organizational improvements the Senate Dems could make to improve coordination with the netroots activist community. I told him it was not a matter of structure: we share enough email lists together, and our thoughts are pretty much there for all the world to see online, 24/7. I told him instead it was a matter of trust. He didn't much like that answer.
But just to give him a bit of background about why I say trust is an issue, let's talk a little bit about his DSCC Senate Dem consigliere, Chuck Schumer. Here are twelve reasons not to trust Schumer, in no particular order:
1. Discouraging grass roots Paul Hackett over Sherrod Brown, even though we generally like Brown (there is a bad taste over his Military Commisions Act vote, and some seem unable to forgive him).
2. Selecting Casey as a cautious pick in PA against the weak Santorum. Casey is good on economic populism but has the minority national view on choice.
3. Working against Tester in the primary, before getting on the bandwagon in the general election.
4. Propelling the weather vane opportunist Harold Ford in Tennessee. We understand that TN is TN, but Ford was just not someone we could rally around (because he campaigned against us), and we do not accept the notion that we must try to be kinder, gentler Republicans to win in traditionally red areas (see Tester).
5. Chuck refused for the longest time to talk about Iraq, and told us we should not do it, though we were right. We don't esteem his strategic judgment.
6. Chuck sits on the board of a neocon think tank. We feel this compromises him on Iraq and Iran, and in general, on matters of military adverturism and foriegn policy.
7. Chuck, when he has spoken to us, speaks to us with barely veiled contempt, or so it comes across. He sees us as a media conduit for his grand strategy, and we just can't be controlled that way. We're not Limbaugh or Fox News. It's not any personal disrespect that rankles: it's his basic contempt for grassroots voters whose efforts he later trumpets as his own victories.
8. Chuck went AWOL and became livid on Judiciary when Feingold pulled his censure thing. I understand Feingold was freelancing, but he was also propelling an aggressive accountability agenda when Chuck and the DSCC were doing anything but. Our base wanted an aggressive accountability agenda, and on the politics, the results this week proved us right.
9. Rather than build a gracious public narrative acknowledging all the work done by the grassroots and the netroots, including, for example, the massive GOTV calling (7 million calls!) done through MoveOn, Chuck went on a PR offensive (with Rahm) to take all credit for the election's gains, weaving in a "conservatives won, not the liberal base" narrative. He threw us under the bus. The NY Post article above is but one example.
10. Chuck and the DSCC were at war in public with the DNC in a way that weakens the party and which failed to give sufficient credit to Dean's 50 state strategy after the election. Chuck comes across as a very planful egoist and not a team player, and one who fundamentally believes he knows better than grassroots voters do.
11. All this, and I have not even gotten to Lamont. The DSCC only offered to send email for Lamont under duress, late in the game, after being called out in front of party activists. They abandoned Lamont: more of those behind the scenes details will be coming out very soon. Chuck's contempt for the grassroots has been nowhere more evident than in the Lamont case (we'll hear more about Harry Reid, too when those stories break).
12. Chuck's donor base is heavily weighted to the NY downtown financial heavyweights, and we strongly suspect he won't be good on middle class or working people's issues, as in the Bankruptcy Bill.
I realize there's a lot of pushback online in the last day or so to do kumbayah in the party, to paper over history. Even Markos penned a front page post that implied some in the netroots are trying to claim the campaign committees did nothing at all of use in this election cycle, which just isn't true, at least, not around here. Howie Klein makes a post-election case I'd personally endorse here, though we've also done quite a bit of our own writing right here at FDL.
This may seem like infighting, and in a way it is. . . but those of us from the Roots aren't responding in this fight to make a dollar. We get no payment out of this. All the financial incentives are on their side (a problem to address another day).
Instead, we're fighting the post election narrative the DC/K Street Elitists are promoting because it's a lie about what happened in Tuesday's election designed to disempower you, dear reader. We fight this fight so you can get the credit you deserve. If we can successfully fight their false narrative, they have no public justification to sell you out over the next two years.
We're fighting this fight because you showed up and made things happen Tuesday, and as your allies, we're using our online platform to hold the Democratic Party accountable to all of us, the voters who made Tuesday's victories happen.
Stay tuned. . .
Related posts:
- Chuck Schumer for Majority Leader
- Early Morning Swim: Chuck Schumer Optimistic on Countdown
- Schumer Raises the Stakes: If Final Bill Has No Public Option, Blame Harry Reid
- House Judiciary, Sens. Schumer, Reid Call for Break Up of Insurance Trust
- Schumer Promises a Public Option… or Not? Whip Him into Shape!





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ROOTZ!
Just a heads up gang: we’re doing a server migration at 10 PM PST/1 AM EST, and the site will likely be down for about 10 minutes.
I was going to do something lighter and goofier, but some Blondie talked me into doing this.
Don’t you love Blondie?
Pach!
Thank you for turning the light on Schumer, Rahm’s accomplice in the Senate.
How many elections do we have to win to throw the damned megacorps off our backs?
(and who needs to lose the next election to hurry the outcome?)
The tide is high but
I’mthey’re holding onPachacutec @
1
(guilty pleasure…)
Did Senator Reid really ask Schumer to stay on for the reasons stated in that article?
Excellent work, as usual. You thought of twelve really good reasons not to trust Chuck. Just in time for X-mas. Up with people and down with megabuck corporations and their lobbyists.
Lindy:
If the reporter is to be believed, yes.
Thanks for the honest truth, and for confirming my worst suspicions. How can we fight back?
Holy shit. Grassroots, netroots. We’re citizens. And we want accountability and a DIFFERENT agenda.
OK – I’ve been for a spot to get this off my chest and what better space than on the thread about trusting Schumer.
Short and sweet. Dean is NOT the problem. Dean is the answer. I’ve given more money in this season to local/state candidates AND CANDIDATES not in my own state! I’ve given more money to ‘the party’, PACs – nationally & locally because of Howard Dean, and Harry Reid, whom I like, than in my entire lifetime as a Democrat. Chuck Schumer, Rahm Emanuel, and anyone else who pushes to get rid of Dean won’t get shit from me – period. It was Howard Dean who got me excited about politics again, not Schumer, not Emanuel.
And for the record, as much as I like ‘Big Dawg’, I won’t vote for Hillary. She tries to be someone for everyone and it just cannot be. She’s not herself and if you can’t be yourself then I’m not interested because you can’t be trusted.
I’m out west, Idaho, to be exact. While it may not look it our races were quite competitive. Locally in my district, the Demos won. Statewide it was tight. A nutcase Rethug is coming to D.C. after squeaking by a political ‘newcomer’. (This Rethug is convinced of the tie between breast cancer & abortions. He’s not much of a science man.)
The message has to be how the Democratic party can be the party that helps the working class, and the middle class, and not promote or subsidize those in our party who are more interested in consolidating their power. Because Schumer & Emanuel wouldn’t be anywhere without the voters. At least, Howard recognized that and thanked them.
Hubris, boys. Hubris.
That was supposed to say – “I’m been looking for a spot….”
IIRC, I believe that Harry Reid is an anti-choice, tell women what they can do with their bodies kind of guy. Like others on our team, Reid has also had a bit of a backbone problem.
1. Discouraging grass roots Paul Hackett over Sherrod Brown, even though we generally like Brown (there is a bad taste over his Military Commisions Act vote, and some seem unable to forgive him).
2. Selecting Casey as a cautious pick in PA against the weak Santorum. Casey is good on economic populism but has the minority national view on choice.
I’m not so sure those were a bad call. Hackett dropped out way too fast, as in, something we don’t know about. Plus, he made a bonehead accusation that Bush did coke, according to reports, on Hardball. That was just dumb, IMO
As far as Casey being personally against abortion, who cares? Does that translate to a vote for a potential wingnut Supreme Court Justice? I don’t think so.
Well done Pach, respectful, vigourous dissent.
FWIW, one of the bellwether issues imo is Campaign Finance Reform, eg. publicly financing all National elections. If the Vichy Dems don’t fight for it, I have serious questions.
OK, now we have excellent reasons to counter Chuck (and Harry.) Great post, Pach.
What’s the plan? Anyone have ideas of things we can do, or steps we can take to throw our considerable decentralized weight around so we can make a difference—and yet not get involved in a Dem war? (Wouldn’t the Right just love that!)
We are not going away. We are realists and that is why we embrace a progressive stance. There are too many things that need addressing.
Schumer and Emanuel cannot stop this movement. Too many citizens want solutions that work for all not for a few.
marksb @ 15
It seems to me that one priority is to cover Howard Dean’s back. Make sure the state reps responsible for determining who heads up the DNC are all pro-Howard.
IIRC Harry last won in NEVADA by less than a thousand votes. New York, CT, CA, and DE are much bluer than NEVADA, so I reserve my harshest criticism for Schmuer, Hillary, Lieberman4Lieberman, DiFi, Biden…. I think if we pressure Blue State Dems, the Red State Dems will follow.
Those boots in that Blondie video were made for walking!
Taking back America should not be party exclusive! There are plenty of creeps in the Demcratic party, people who would willingly sacrifice the public trust they have been granted for filthy lucre. Let’s not make the mistake of allowing those corporate-owned Democrats to swindle us (Dean I think is one of the good guys).
One of these days these boots are gonna…Hey how come Deborah Harry never did a cover of that song [or did she?]
I wouldn’t even say it is about the grassroots getting credit. Plenty of people thanked me for my efforts, and I have the happy glow of virtue besides. :-)
What scares and infuriates me about Schumer et al. trying to change the narrative is much more practical: I don’t want us to go back to sucking. We have been there and done that with the DLC/Repub lite scene. I think Harry Truman was the one who said that if you give people a choice between a Republican and a Republican, they will vote for the Republican.
Other than Clinton (and he didn’t have much coattails), we have been on a nasty losing slide for a lot of elections. This mild mannered, go along to get along stuff just doesn’t work! We *lose*. And then we lose some more.
It is true that my natural tendency is to want to be upfront, take the fight to our opponent, and exhibit pride in our views. But if the other way worked, I might try to swallow my objections and let the pros have their way. But it doesn’t work.
What I am having trouble understanding is why Schumer et al. can’t see that their way doesn’t work. I don’t truly believe that they want to lose or that they don’t care whether they win or lose. But damn, they sure act like they don’t care.
One way to demonstrate that we have Howard Dean’s back is to donate to the DNC on November 17th – Dean’s birthday.
PS – pics from Lamont campaign on my photo blog.
Emma Anne, I think they’re still listening to people like Carville.
I hate it when I’m right, that we have not a moment to waste to establish we were part of this.
I still think we’d do well to systematically collect FDL/Kos/etc stories and pix of campaign help on the ground, into a “portfolio”.
But the very fact that on the day afer the big victory, we were (correctly) worrying about how we’d get played in the aftermath, demonstrates clearly that there’s a trust problem.
Kathryn in MA @ 21
Loved your pics. Reminded me of all the hope we had for Ned and what a terrific man he is.
Pach….
good post
I wonder what it will take for the entrenched power structure to take us seriously….
Lamont should have been a lesson to them but they didn’t listen….not a bit…..
hizzhoner…
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought it was supposed to be government of the people, for the people, by the people. The tubes allow us to make our voices heard in a way that heretofore was not possible. Chucky needs to wise up, pronto, or he might get a visit from the primary fairy (assuming he’s running again).
Dr. Dean gets it. Chucky is SO pre-internets.
Propelling the weather vane opportunist Harold Ford in Tennessee.
Uh, you might wanna take that one up with the voters in Tennessee, since they voted for him. Or do they not count as grassroots?
Oh, we have his number, alright. And we’re starting to get Harry Reid’s as well. We are not radical lunatics. We are rationalists who aren’t clinging to any particular ideology. But they are trying very hard to paint us as the lunatic fringe because now that they have achieved their goals, they think they can jettison us.
Think again guys. The genie is out of the bottle.
And no matter what asinine crap Lieberman throws tomorrow on MTP, we are not going to let up. Joe does not repreesent anyone but himself. He represents craven pandering, hawkish misbehavior and an unprincipled approach to so-called bipartisanship. It has nothing to do with parties and everything to do with personal integrity.
Schumer has a lot to fear from us.
Too late to stop us.
grayslady @
22
I think you are right. What I don’t get is why?!
Bill Withers – Use Me
(begins at the 4:00 mark)
Emma Anne @ 29
My gut tells me it’s all about Hillary. I think the Big Dawg is advising Hillary and suggesting she use his same team. Also, Hillary and Schumer are tight. I always suspected that Clinton’s meeting with bloggers was solely to feel out the netroots reaction to Hillary–assess the opposition, if you will.
I have a feeling Teddy’s seat (uh, 79% I think this time) is safer than Chuck’s.
I hope Ted is a thorn in the side of all these blue dog goons.
Ticket for ‘08? Hillary/Chuck.
Lemme punch that ticket.
marksb @ 15
The DLC sort have the edge with money – the megacorps will invest unlimited amounts.
This isn’t to diss Blue America and Howie’s wildly successful drive. Their triumph shows how powerful targeted spending is – with the best candidates.
But since the DLC is likely to have greater access to bucks, I’m thinking of our strengths.
I’m trying to identify OUR edge.
We* make and shape culture.
Sometime back one firepup commented they’d heard “EPU’d” in a very high-power setting far afield from the Lake.
The EPU meme is a part of culture.
WATB and “The Kiss” and so much more have sailed off the Lake, away from the rabid lambs, and into greater use…
In a media-driven world of limbic persuasion, culture makers have leverage.
As does FDL….
And that comes from the wonderful people I meet here and the community they have built.
[*Actually - YOU fdl’s make culture. My culture-making is confined to a bit of the fridge.]
I think you just coined a new term.
That Blondie vid…rips!!…fuck chuck
Here, here! The frame of the election will shape the agenda, so we need to get our’s out there. Let there be dissension between the faction of the Democratic Party.
To take the Kos approach, Schumer has his strengths, but it sure as hell ain’t strategy or agenda. Let him raise money, but keep him out of the way of the movement.
So what we have then is a monumental struggle for philosophical control of the Democratic party? Is it Progressive, liberal, center-left vs. DLC?
grayslady @ 31
Which goes to show just how arrogant they are. I haven’t spoken to even ONE committed Democratic voter who thinks that HRC won’t be anything other than a GOP win in 08. Surely they know this. They do polls, don’t they?
hamletta @ 27
I’ve always liked Harold Ford. He’s sincere, credible, and a master politician. He’s far from done in Tennessee, or?
I just don’t agree with most of what he says, he crosses my personal limit, which is pretty big (tent) ; )
Really though, he’s a nice guy, IMO.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 36
Yup. Personally, I like Dr. Dean’s term of “people-powered”. Covers all those independents and cross-over voters.
3. Working against Tester in the primary, before getting on the bandwagon in the general election.
He did? The scurvy dog! The man’s a neocon in neocon’s clothes. What more do you expect?
OMGawd. I just read the word, “Hillary” in a comment above. I’m getting the cold sweats, shakes and cramps. I must be strong.
grayslady @ 17
Pach – I think this is your best post ever.
Lindy, that would be great. I found a list some time ago, but it was a bit confusing as to exactly who in my state had the say so.
Wordsmith has the right of it as far as I’m concerned. And I’m already sick of the bi-partisan meme. Here’s my plan and it calls upon the Democratic majority to do one simple thing.
Realize that it is past time to Stop Playing Games!
It would be good for the country and good politics.
If Chuck and Ramit and Pelosi don’t get it. We will get them. It’s that simple.
It will be interesting to see which, if any, of these ‘power brokers’ attend YearlyKos 2007.
I doubt that any of ‘em besides Reid have the spine to do so. If they do you can be sure…
I will give them a piece of my mind.
And I won’t charge them for it like Carville would.
We must get anti-virus protection against the spread of the DLC, their cohorts and subversive sympathizers. These folks are insidious. Seriously; the DLC has got to be dealt with.
Great post [and the soundtrack from Witchblade?]
Good points, Pach.
And now for some blunt talk. Let’s begin to face a basic truth: Dem supporters of the war in Iraq are either Jewish or Jewish-sympathizers. Very simply, every Arab or Muslim killed is one less Arab or Muslim enemy of Israel. Understanding that they would support the war is not rocket science.
Remember, to borrow a phrase from Atrios, the Reps have their lizardbrains, but Dems do, too.
The real issue is the willingness to use our military men and women as guinea pigs in service to ignoble goals and to me, another one of those ignoble goals besides oil is doing Israel’s dirty work.
It is the abuse of the troops that irks me.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
We are the center.
We are pro-family, pro-community, pro-school, pro-child, pro-senior.
We want strong schools, healthy air food and water for our children, and good housing for our neighbors.
We want our grandparents to be happy and comfortable.
We want working people to share good schools, safe neighborhoods, and work opportunities with every other American.
We are the center.
The myth that caring about neighbors, grandmothers, children, and those who need help is EXTREME is deliberate megacorps propaganda.
The megacorps crafted this myth before Agnew resigned. The megacorps had to spend fortunes for decades to gobble enough media bandwidth to fool some Americans into believing the myth – but only some, and only for a while.
And the megacorps have failed.
WE ARE THE MIDDLE.
The extremists believe they can destroy mountains in Appalachia, economies in Detroit, and childhoods across America all to get the BEST FUCKING INVESTMENT RETURN.
That’s right – if you have to die so someone gets 18% instead of 15% a year on their millions, you croak.
The real extremism says “MY dividend – a dead piece of paper – is more important than YOUR living child.”
We never bought that myth.
And the majority of Americans never did, either.
We are the center – the hearth.
We know better, and always have.
Life is too important to waste for dead coins.
Megacorps have to spend billions every year on ads (and their vehicle – commercial programming) to distract us from this simple truth.
And their ads and flickering blue screens are failing.
Our truth – the truth of our families and communities – our truth is spreading.
From our hearths and hearts.
Out from the center, where we and our families have been all along.
DAMN STRAIGHT.
Pach, the problems we have with Rahm and Chuck are systemic — and they are the very same problems that undermined Dean’s primary run.
Yeah, I know; Dean was a newbie, made some bad moves in his campaign (like relying too heavily on the internet when ground game was needed). But the entrenched old-school powergods in the party actively undermined him, failed to let the Democratic voters make up their own minds. In my state, for example, the powergods got to the unions’ leadership and played some serious head games with the rank-and-file on how they approached the primary. Dean’s lack of a ground game hurt him because there was no push back against this effort.
But that’s exactly what Dean learned and assimilated into his 50-State Strategy; he now knows that there must be a full-time presence in the field, on the ground, here in the neighborhood for the Democratic Party, so that the voters are better educated and better motivated and are not as prone to manipulation. He learned something and applied the learning successfully.
Rahm and Chuck, however, are still playing like it’s 1999. That’s one more reason not to trust them. They still think that enough money will do the trick, that a handful of key races with candidates selected by acclaim rather than by democratic process will be successful.
Unfortunately, we still have a number of local parties that are also operating with the same stale worldview; they still don’t understand the relationship between netroots, grassroots and voters. (netroots = grassroots with internet access = wired voters) But this past week’s victories are bringing home the truth like a blunt force trauma to the head with a cluebat. The local union powergods recognized the contribution we net/grassroots-voters made through our sustained activism; one of them actually admitted to me that the unions were slow and late to the game and they should have listened to us.
Yeah. Kind of angry-making, hollow and bittersweet victory, hearing that while watching a state senate seat union-friendly candidate lose by a mere 500 votes, knowing that the unions rejected flushing out voters in a handful of precincts.
We have no choice but to continue to engage in an asymmetricparadigm shift in our party. Call it a generational change, or unrestricted internecine warfare if you like, but we must continue to clean house from both the top and the bottom. We are breaking through in the field with unions and non-activist voters, but we obviously need to remove the rot at the top.
(Not to mention that a rather high percentage of the leadership in question are too easily bought and manipulated by a faction that has an excessive amount of control over our foreign policy and our national politics…)
One way or another.
Forget center or left how about good government! If the Dems don’t acomplish ANYTHING BIG left, or center then whats the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Sheesh! at least Newt thought big end the war, national healthcare for all citizens. Make government work, maybe the center can’t get over the beating Hilary took on healthcare and thats why they have NO BIG IDEAS OF THEIR OWN! So of course they try and stop us from going over the cliff they went. They need to find some stones and DREAM BIG. and maybe we should be a bit more cautious…. about following center democrats to scared to dream!
Pach – great post! We need to remain very clear about our goals and the importance of defeating the Elitists … very clear since it’s easy to slip into “we got the majority” and forget why we want it … and why we got it.
Maggie,
The blunt talk is a bit too blunt.
This phrase makes me very uncomfortable. I do not agree with it. I believe it is inaccurate.
I find the term “Jewish-sympathizer” to be objectionable, with very dark echoes.
I comment here oftern – too often of late. I would not comment now save for the fact that my silence would be assent.
I do not assent to the quoted phrase.
Pach, I don’t know if this slipped through the cracks in your most excellent post, but you didn’t ask us to SPOTLIGHT!!!
So any particular parts of the MSM that you’d like us to hit, or will all of them suffice?
If all, then let’s divvy up the targets to ensure we hit them all.
Again, Ta for the most excellent post!
No worries, Kirk, just using “shorthand” for individuals who support Israel with the same intensity as some of those of the Jewish faith and ethnicity do.
Sorry to whore, but please check out my Balrog Brother (w/glasses) doing his Simon and Garfunkle Revu. It is scary how good they sound. Recommend if you don’t mind? Thanks.
Simon and Garfunkle Revu
I’m a humanist. That makes me a sympathizer of all people.
Anti-semetic statements are unwelcome here.
simple centrist values:
Grassroots anchor suburban lawns.
grayslady @ 45
Here’s the link to the roster. Warning: pdf file.
Lindy, don’t see a link. I’m cool with PDF, but thanks for warning.
I affirm njr’s and kirk’s comments.
There is an element of truth to maggie’s comment, in that AIPAC and related organizations have wielded too much influence on key figures in Dem leadership.
But it’s not because of a nationality, ethnic or religious group.
It’s because of a particular political group with a specific perspective: the Likudniks. We end up making far too many decisions based upon this group’s perceptions and not upon the aggregate perception of this country and its allies in the greater global community. One specific political faction in a small country encourages us to overextend ourselves militarily and economically to their ends, and not to the long-term benefit of the American people or their allies, and frankly, not even to the long-term best interest of the political faction in question.
Look at it this way: how do the outcomes of the Iraq War benefit the nation of Israel, specifically the Likud Party?
Is it in the best interest of the American people to sustain the Iraq War for the benefit of the Likud Party? for whatever benefit there may be to the nation of Israel? for any of our allies or partners around the globe?
What does the rank-and-file Democratic Party member think about this? is it a different viewpoint than that of the Dem leadership in question?
I realize I have made a controversial argument. I did it on purpose, because I think supporting the war in Iraq because of one’s feelings about Israel is wrong, even if one is a democrat. Choosing candidates to field in elections based upon support for the war because of a perception that it helps Israel is really irksome.
Let me clear; I support Israel, but not enough to send my co-workers kids to Iraq to potentially be killed or maimed for life.
Jeepers. Is L*kud a key word that gets one locked in moderation??
Shumer,Hillery,the bid dog,all, are the high-dollar whores who are used to keep the the Dem’s in line with the old wealth of this country.Meet the new boss,same as the old boss.The one dif. I see this time is the blogs and net…who are completely outside the the existing power structure and represent TRUE democracy…which scares hell out of old wealth….Where this country needs to go @ this incredibly critical time of our nations life is not where this old guard will lead…its the same trail bush and co. was…but kinder and gentler..kirt has it nailed…
Pachacutec @ 59
Please.
I believe all of us here are quite clear that the Iraqi and Lebanese wars are disasterous for Israel, as well as all the other countries in the MidEast. and i say this as a Jew.
I need to hit the hay, but I’d be curious to hear Kathryn’s response to my comment at 63 — if it comes out of moderation.
Here’s the roster!
Kathryn in MA @ 67
I agree completely.
I’ll stay up, too, and try to reply intelligently, Rayne. PS thank you for your service.
Thanks, Lindy. I bookmarked the list. Will review tomorrow.
Pach, agreed. I know the Sunday talk shows are going to make me want to grit my teeth.
At the same time, and not to be too Pollyannish, if we can take heart in something, maybe it is this: The politicians you are talking about are hacks, and more and more Dem voters–even the ones who aren’t into blogs and activism–seem to know it. I don’t know anyone lately (and I mean my friends who vote Democratic) who can stomach the Bidens and the Schumers any more–so–maybe–our battles won’t be as uphill as they once would have been. Of course, the last ones to get it will be the media, and that will be a big part of our battle.
As for Maggie at 49–I find her comments as she expressed them offensive, unwelcome, and off base. (Pach, looks as if you already have it covered at 59. Thanks.)
Maggie, i think the Neo-cons are using Israel (in their effort to destabilize the MIdEast), not the other way around (Israel using the US).
Israel will soon realize they have been manipulated to horrific ends.
Okay, Pach, you tell ‘em. Over and over. This is excellent and deserves wide SPOTLIGHT. Oh, and a word on that, folks — it’s up to us commenters to remind one another about SPOTLIGHT. It looks kinda top-down for the poster to end the post with a recommendation to SPOTLIGHT, so we need to encourage one another to do so, not expect the posters to suggest it in the post.
[— Maggie, your 63 sounds much different than your 49. There’s no question that there’s a discussion to be had about the war and reasons to support it, but to conflate religion and statehood (as you did) only makes it harder to understand what you’re saying. I do not endorse your 49 statement, and would encourage you to re-read it in hindsight, although your 63 sounds very close to my views. —]
I would add to Pach’s points #1 and #2 that, given the OH and PA margins, true progressives would have just as much success defeating DeWine and Ricky as did Brown and Casey. We missed an opportunity there. Thanks, Chuck.
Let’s not forget how cavalierly DC Dems and their TradMed buddies treated Cindy Sheehan’s conversations in January about challenging DiFi — as the climate changed this fall, who could say whether Casey’s Mom wouldn’t be California’s next Senator?
Go raise money for our Progressive Revolution, Mr. Schumer. Convince your corporatist board-sitters that we are not crazy, we are TEH PEOPLE. And that we will come with pitchforks and torches if they do not yield. Be the FDR of your Democratic party generation, Chuck — be the bridge between the disaffected and the gotbux. But don’t try to tell TEH PEOPLE what the policy’s gonna be. We’ve got that part covered.
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Who’s Next?
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Greetings from New York State. I think folks may need a reality check.
Chuck delivered the goods. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
The net roots folks still aren’t able to deliver the goods. Lamont may have won the primary, but he blew it in the general election. He was totally outmaneuvered by a skilled politician while he (Lamont) spent almost a month whining about why Lieberman should quit the race.
Now us liberal dems can be all high minded and ideologically pure — if we’re happy never being in control of Congress. I don’t think that’s real useful.
Chuck Schumer isn’t the anti-christ. And he’s not a neo-con — I don’t care what board he may sit on. Schumer is one hell of a smart guy, however, and a skilled politician. Kudos to him for getting control of both the Senate and the House. Let’s hope for a repeat in 2008.
Harman
http://tinyurl.com/slfp7
Pelosi
http://tinyurl.com/v9znv
Linda –
Lamont’s candidacy drained the GOP of $19,000,000. They swamped him with that money, pouring it into RGJoe’s campaign, depriving the opponents of Senators-Elect Whitehouse, Brown, Casey, Webb, Cardin, McCaskill, Tester, and Senator Menendez of cash that would have changed the outcome. No one did more than NED Lamont to win the Senate for Democrats — not even Chuck Schumer.
It would be wise for Reid, Schumer and Emmanuel to remember that WE are the people, and we vastly outnumber them.
The army ant is one of the smallest creatures in the jungle. But when army ants march together even the fiercest predators get out of the way.
Schumer is a very big neocon and proud of it. He will fight for every single corporate dollar he can, while being willing to fight any country that Israel might decide has to be taken down.
He did his part and the netroots did ours. But at times they were working deliberately to take down good candidates for no reason, other than they were talking about the Iraq war and he does not want to talk about that. Just like Bush. Schumer and Bush have that in common.
And to return to my pet peeve, it was Pelosi who slapped Dean about being evanhanded. Nope, I will NEVER forget.
I posted this to the BlueAmerica thread down below but it may be relevent to this conversation too.
As far as Chuck and Rahm are concerned, I say screw ‘em. Whether we realize it or not, we have the power to exert significant influence on the “narrative” for the next election. Ned Lamont proved that. It ain’t infighting if you simply ignore Rahm and Chuck.
The Lobby
http://tinyurl.com/rgufx
Siun @ 53
So happy this topic has staying power around here. This is really the heart and soul of our struggle. I think many miss the point with Chuckie, Rahmen Noodle, The Clintons, etc. It’s not that they don’t get the netroots or “left-wing” of the DemocratIC Party, in fact, they understand what’s happening very well.
It’s as plain as day and has been for quite some time: these “Elites,” or Corporatists have infiltrated our Party specifically to keep liberals “in line.” From Clinton’s NAFTA and Telecommunication Act of 1996, to the public attacking of Dr. Dean the day after one of the greatest DemocratIC victories of all time, it’s clear they exist only to serve their corporate masters. They do not care one iota about “the little guys and gals.”
Don’t ever forget this. It’s kind of wasted energy to even think about trying to change their minds and understand us. After this week’s elections and the Corporatists’ response, do you need any more proof? I was particulary struck by this line from Pach’s post, and I think it proves my point as well…
“I told him [Reid] instead it was a matter of trust. He didn’t much like that answer.”
Why wouldn’t he like that answer?!? Jeezus. All efforts should be directed to removing these people and replacing them with actual liberals.
It sounds like Shumer is throwing his coat over a puddle for Hilary to walk over. There’s more to this than meets the eye.
TRex decided to come in to the office on Saturday night, and is upstairs with LateNite….
Sherrod Brown is going to be the best Democratic Senator we have. Period.
The Military Commissions vote is the only blight on his record, and according to ProgressivePunch.com, he has a more progressive voting record than Dennis Kucinich.
If you’re going to blame Schumer for being too centrist, which you should, you can’t pin promoting Sherrod Brown as one of his centrist sins.
Schumer, like Leiberman, represents the Corporate Party. That is reason enough to distrust him. I don’t trust anyone who thinks the most important thing in the world is raising money for politicians. Those people cannot even see when they have lost their souls.
The people who support progressive values with time, effort and money don’t want anything from the politicians except their best efforts to enact progressive policies. Why does Schumer want to be a politician? Is there some principle he wishes to enact into law, some overarching goal for our society he wants to pursue? Not that I can see. As our host said in an earlier post, the money party is our opposition, the theocratic party is our opposition, and we have to find leaders to defeat them.
vachon @
85
Umm, only if he’s hiding a giant sink hole that he can push her in.
Chuck and Hillary are not exactly good teammates.
Maggie @ 63
Yikes – Maggie – I support peace for the state of Israel too.
And for the state of Palestine.
And most importantly, for the people of both states, whatever the flags and passports may be.
I learned to talk about this sensitive matter in West LA – home to a thriving and active Orthodox community and a global center of the Jewish diaspora.
One the people I learned from was my former spouse, a very fine person whose father had very few older relatives – they’d been lost in the camps. Her mom’s family had lost some, but had been more fortunate.
My former spouse grew up in Skokie, IL and went to college in Illinois – and then to pursue a doctorate in Middle Eastern Studies.
She considered the State Department.
At the interview, the State Dept folks brought out her dossier – with pics from her at a political rally at freakin’ Southern Illinois University. As an undergrad.
Just one detail – the rally was pro-Palestinian.
The Jewish girl from Skokie who never met most of dad’s family – cause the Nazis killed them – she was for return to pre-1967 war borders and equal rights for Palestinians.
The State Dept. wasn’t terribly interested – even though she already spoke Arabic. As a Master’s student.
She didn’t see much reason to finish the Ph.D. She did stay around to help organize the papers of one of her graduate advisers – who was among the Americans kidnapped in Beiruit and ultimately murdered by extremists.
On the other hand, lots of millenialist Christians ardently support Zionist political ideology and actively seek to fund Israeli military power and conquest.
The Christian millenialists support Israel in the devout belief that – when enough of the impious unbelieving Jews have returned to the Holy Land – they will perish hideously.
The happy result of this heavenly Holocaust – the millenialists believe – is the next step towards the Second Coming.
With all of this complexity in mind, I’m afraid to make assumptions about who supports what act of mercy or violence based upon religion.
Just trying to remember it all disorients me.
(pun embraced, though unintended)
Yes, more true liberal/progressives please. And thank you, thank you. The power of Karl Rove compels you! Jedi mind tricks indeed, heh.
Maggie @ 49:
Maggie your statements could not be more incorrect or more offensive. Although there are some highly visible Jewish supporters of the war in Iraq, they do not represent the mainstream of Jewish opinion in this country. Jews voted 87% to 12% for Dems over Repugs in this past election. I’m not sure what other group in this country has that kind of voting record.
While most American Jews, myself included, absolutely believe in Israel’s right to exist, we probably support the war in about the same numbers as everyone else.
And we probably do have stronger views on the Palestinian/Israeli conflict than most other people do, but that is because it has been part of our lives for decades, going back to long before a lot of that history was rewritten in America to become the truthiness that you now buy into.
Maggie – you make a serious and harmful mistake in your comment. The entanglement of american interests with israeli interests is a significant driver of imperialist policies in the middle east and needs to be called out imho but equating “jewish” religious beliefs or identity with zionist militarism is inaccurate and smacks of antisemitism.
I’d appreciate it if you would reconsider your comment – it is offensive.
Kathryn, that’s what I meant, that the impetus is here, not in Israel. I can’t stand the fact that upwards of a billion people want Israel “wiped off the map” — it is many more than just Iran’s prez. I fully believe that Israel “has a right to exist”, which to me is unbelievable that people even have to make such a statement.
But, when “people” start to behave as though Arabs and/or Muslims are merely expendable, I find it very irritating.
If someone wants to step up and say, “Look, I support the war in Iraq because I believe that all Arab or Muslim Iraqis hate Israel and want it destroyed and I want us to get our licks in first”, at least that would have some honesty to it.
More than this crap about promoting democracy in Iraq.
One thing I will say about Schumer that I support and that is his camera houndishness. He understands teevee as a communication tool, even if he hasn’t quite figured out the internets.
Pach,
The old Chinese saying goes, “He who defines the terms, wins the argument.”
I’m ok with you defining the terms, any damn day!
Make them admit the truth. They think they want a shot at lobyist’s funds. Tell them to go ask Tom Delay how that’s working out for him. We don’t need more like him; not in the Democratic party, not anywhere. Make them tell the truth and make them look at themselves. If they like what they see, and continue, then we really didn’t win anything on Tuesday.
Thank you.
Ignu 87
Thankyou for your comment. I look fwd to seeing him in the Senate. We in OH can finally be proud of at least one of our senators. ;->
Poor manipulated Israel. Can’t get an even break from the anti semites. From Richard Dreyfuss in The Nation.
http://tinyurl.com/zh7pp
According to the former official, also feeding information to the Office of Special Plans was a secret, rump unit established last year in the office of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel. This unit, which paralleled Shulsky’s–and which has not previously been reported–prepared intelligence reports on Iraq in English (not Hebrew) and forwarded them to the Office of Special Plans. It was created in Sharon’s office, not inside Israel’s Mossad intelligence service, because the Mossad–which prides itself on extreme professionalism–had views closer to the CIA’s, not the Pentagon’s, on Iraq. This secretive unit, and not the Mossad, may well have been the source of the forged documents purporting to show that Iraq tried to purchase yellowcake uranium for weapons from Niger in West Africa, according to the former official.
————————–
I have more like this, should you be interested.
Pach-
It’s too bad that Schumer is not up for re-election in two years. I have this fantasy about the head of the DSCC losing the Democratic Primary in a state with a stronger Republican Challenger that CT!
(Well a girl can dream, can’t she?)
I remember when I first went to work in England, around 25 years ago. I could not believe the diversity of political opinion they had. I thought if you went from the far left to the far right in this country (disregarding the outliers) you had less diversity than within one British party. Now look at us!
John Casper @ 7:09 pm (#18)
Reid’s politics do reflect those of his state, I think, and the people I expect to be more progressive or the ones you mentioned. I don’t know if Reid’s problem is backbone or that he just says things he thinks he won’t be called on. That thing about consequences for Lieberman is a case in point. What consequences has Lieberman suffered? None that I can see. It seems to me that Reid got what he wanted there. I think he was trying to put one over on us, hoping we’d forget or that if we remembered that it wouldn’t matter.
In short, I don’t blame Reid for his politics, but I don’t trust him any more than I trust Schumer. And I trust Schumer about as much as Pachacutec does.
The GOP has never been hard up for cash. $19 million is “pocket change” for the GOP. Sorry, but to claim that Lamont was the factor that tipped the Senate for the Dems is not believable.
What did tip the scales was that the average American voter got fed up with all the money being spent on the Iraq war and all the bodybags being sent home. Especially, all the money being spent. Even those voters normally inclined to vote for Bush were willing to cross over and vote against Bush. Bush can’t do much harm if you cut off his funding via a Democratic congress.
Here’s the bottom line: Most people and most institutional bodies don’t like big changes. Politics is all about small deviations from the status quo. There isn’t going to be any big revolution. Get used to the idea. Net roots folks need to learn how to play the game better. That’s why Chuck may be contemptuous of net roots folks, if in fact he is.
…and Grandma, since when is neocon defined as being pro-Israel? You need to think about that. And every politician is busy looking for and dialing for dollars. Chuck isn’t any different than anybody else. Maybe Howard Dean got a bunch of small donations from lots of folks but where is Howard Dean now? Nowhere. The Dems and Chuck Schumer won the elction DESPITE Howard Dean, not BECAUSE of him. He will soon be toast. Good.
kirk murphy @ 50
Damn straight. I am past weary of hearing prominent members of the Democratic Party opine that our values are out of the mainstream.
As to the whole Hillary-is-the-underlying-reason thing, I speak from the red middle of the pretty darn blue Illinois. We just relected a Democratic governor by a substantial margin, despite the fact that he’s currently under scrutiny by none other than Pat Fitzgerald. However…
Hillary cannot win in Illinois. End of story.
And that would be true even if she hadn’t spent the last four years equivocating herself silly.
And while I’m referencing kirk murphy, I will join in disavowing Maggie’s framing being discussed above in this thread.
BTW, Pachacutec, that was a great article. I didn’t know about Schumer being a part of some neocon think-tank (isn’t that an oxymoron?), but it certainly puts his attitude that we should all just STFU about the Iraq War and Bush’s Israel policies in a different light, doesn’t it?
Thrasyboulos @
83
Oh, thank you for this.
The fate of Dean is up to the state democratic orgs, primarily, and not to the political hacks infesting Washington. And the democratic state orgs will not vote to cut their throat by giving power to DLC operatives like Snakehead.
Dean has the job forever, should he want it. Good.
It’s interesting that someone’s first two posts on FDL would be so suppportive of Schumer, anti-Dean, and so sure of themselves.
Linda @ 99:
I would consider K-Street, the fascist takeover of the media, the breakdown of separation of powers, the destruction of virtually any functioning department in the gov’t, the complete lack of oversight, the overthrow of the Geneva conventions to be more than small deviations from the status quo. Unless of course you consider Hitler and Stalin to be only small deviations, too.
Kirk Murphy @ 90
I have rarely seen the essential tragedy of the Israel-Palestine tragedy (and U.S. complicity in it) stated more powerfully or more beautifully.
I met a man last weekend who has family in Tyre and Natanya who, during the late unpleasantness in Lebanon, all left and met up in Turkey, where they stayed together until the fighting stopped.
Yet, even he will say there is no such thing as Palestinians – to him they are displaced Syrians.
It is not a simple problem, nor is it abstract.
Brownandserve @ 82
As far as Chuck and Rahm are concerned, I say screw ‘em. Whether we realize it or not, we have the power to exert significant influence on the “narrative” for the next election. Ned Lamont proved that. It ain’t infighting if you simply ignore Rahm and Chuck.
That’s quite a video at CT Bob’s site. It should serve as a great example that if you’re arrogant or condescending you’ll probably be the last to know.
Maggie at 94 – ah, i think the more honest statement about the Iraqi war would be, “I support the war because its all about grabbing dwindling energy sources before the others do.”
Pacifica, I was talking about politicians rather than voters. I had just read Pach’s link to the “neo-con think tank” on which Schumer sits — I must have been the only won who read it.
Kirk, it IS complicated, isn’t it, especially when there are what might be considered human rights abuses on both sides of a conflict.
Gosh, I am coming back and forth to the computer from downstairs and I am starting to lose track of my responses. I will look a little more closely in a few minutes.
One thing I do want to point out is that I am a regular reader here, but don’t often comment. I have read this blog every single day for over a year. I am familiar with all of you.
I find support of the war a problem for the Democrat party if there is such a goal as making the democratic party a majority party. If you support the war, you might as well vote republican; what would be the point of voting democratic to obtain a democratic majority? Got an answer Joe Lieberman? Neither does Schumer.
I think every time somebody like Carville or Schumer opens his mouth and says something stupid, we ought to get that old DFA bat back out and fill it up with money. If the stupid thing is about Howard, we send the money to the DNC. If it’s about the netroots in general, it goes to ActBlue or some other organization we put in place to send out more Lamonts to make these guys’ lives as difficult as possible.
If they want to play hardball, bring it, baby, we’ll take them down in time.
I must echo Kathryn’s suggestion. We have until next Friday to get this rolling. I’d like to see a nice wave of donations on that day (give what you can give but add a penny for Howard’s birthday?) as a big Booya.
Kathryn in MA says:
November 11th, 2006 at 7:10 pm *
One way to demonstrate that we have Howard Dean’s back is to donate to the DNC on November 17th – Dean’s birthday.
PS – pics from Lamont campaign on my photo blog.
Adie @ 96
Yes, we can.
Seems to me netroots needs to define what it wants, then look to how they can achieve it. Personally, I want to see big money out of politics. There may be some doubt whether a individual with deep pockets is contributing for personal gain, but there is no doubt that a business entity contributes for its gain. Netroots will share the goal of eliminating money from politics with many other factions in this country, and as such may gain the leverage to accomplish the fact. Once done, then the discussions will become much less complicated.
Kathryn, LOL.
Personally, I’m planning on making all of my political contributions over the next two years through our Blue America PAC and any other BA efforts – Howie’s review this afternoon of the success of our efforts this year points to how much more we can do with two full years to work for genuine progressive candidates.
Good night, all. Interesting discussion, and let’s give nice donations to the DNC Nov 17th, Howard Dean’s birthday.
Peace, Out.
Patrick 4/4 @ 107
Thank you Patrick 4/4.
My words are very clumsy…
Robert Fisk – now he can write about this.
His wonderful, elegiac accounts of this immense tragedy inspire and inform.
My paraphrase doesn’t do justice to Fisk –
He sees the arc of misery reaching from Belfast to Beirut to Decca and Delhi before the end of the past century as the bloody results of lines drawn at the dawn of that century.
Lines drawn by the victors of the war whose closing minute gave us today’s holiday – a war few now living remember.
Fisk remembers, though.
He also remembers the British military graves from the British Iraqi Expedition in the 20’s – which began in triumph, and ended in rout.
Now Robert Fisk – he’s worth reading.
Funny thing though – the Brits vote Fisk best foreign correspondent year after year. His analyses lead our decision makers’ conclusions by three to four years.
But our pundits always seem so surprised when events turn out as Fisk anticipated years before.
Must be the nitrates in the cocktail weenies.
New thread
TRex is getting impatient upstairs…and we all know what happens when he starts stomping his feet.
A contrary voice, and from the Left, about the supposed power of The Israel Lobby:
http://www.zmag.org/content/sh…..emID=10328
So, I have to ask myself, “If I was a fascist power broker, and I saw a need to eradicate a competing and growing powerbase, what would I do?” Well, in the case of an organized system, I’d find the nucleus and kill it or turn it. I won’t speculate who’s been turned; but the beauty of the netroot movement is that there is no nucleus. There are shining planets in the heavens (Atrios, Kos, the folks here at FDL); but there is no one single inertial reference system.
So, as a a fascist agent, I don’t know what the hell to do with the netroots. WAIT! I do know. I’ll marginalize them with my old tactic of divide and conquer, and I’ll pick THE most divisive subject for liberal thinkers; racism!
Beware those who seek to make racism the cause celebe. It is the halmark of fascism. Beware! Beware! Wave a circle round them thrice and cast your eyes in holy dread for they’ve drunk the fucking kool aid!
Just walk away.
JohnSwifty @ 122
Affinity group political warfare is the best tool Iknow for wrecking progressive efforts.
Thanks for the timely reminder, JohnSwifty
Please stop this infighting now! You all deserve credit for the Democrats winning on Tuesday,even Schumer & Rahm. To paraphrase Ben Franklin we need to hang together or we will hang separately. Just because the republicans lost does not mean that they have gone away. And fighting each other is a sure way for the Republicans to win. Read read an article posted on Daily Kos yesterday that stated you all worked to achieve the democratic parties victory on Tuesday.
So stop fighting each other and continue to fight the true enemy the republicans and especially their leader George Bush who I am ashamed to say is the President of this great country.
We Democrats call it the Democratic party, Linda, not the Democrat party.
First, I hope Ned Lamont runs again. He’s a stand-up guy. And he now has name recognition among many Democrats.
Second, November 7th was just Phase One. Phase Two will be the elections in 2008, when Democrats will win even more seats in Congress and probably even the White House.
For the next two years, everything that the Democrats do should be focused on as if they were running against Bush and the rampant lying and corruption in his administration. No backpedaling. Look at Bush’s recent 31 percent approval rating following the Nov. 7th elections.
And the following scorecard is how we will be able to tell if Democrats in Congress are true progressive Democrats or are DINO conservative Democrats: which Democratic committee chairs aggressively call hearings to address the corruption the Republicans are leaving behind.
At these hearings, are Republicans sworn in and grilled under oath, or for instance, will Joe Lieberman act like a Republican and call no committee hearings, or if he does, will he choose not to place witnesses under oath or even hold the hearings behind closed doors…like the Republicans before?
In other words, American citizens on Nov. 7th demanded more transparency in our government…and more accountability.
If certain DINO Democrats choose not to go aggressively after Bush and the “culture of corruption” Republicans, then we will know by mid-2007 who these ?Democrats? are, and can work to have them replaced by more progressive, liberal Democrats.
Howard Dean’s efforts helped the Democrats, both real and DINO, gain control of Congress. The DINO Democrats have shown that they are expert in backpedaling, while Howard Dean put the pedal to the medal and helped generate a Democratic Party surge in all fifty states.
The DINO Democrats haven’t yet realized that their dinosaur days are numbered…because many patriotic, progressive Democrats have their number.
Incoming Democrats should make Damage Control of what the “culture of corruption” Republicans have done to our nation, our military and the world their top priority…while working at rooting out the corporate-owned conservative DINO Democrats in our midst.
Democracies around the world aren’t called LIBERAL for nothing. Enough of this elitist, robber baron stench coming out of both the Democratic and Republican Parties. The working men and women of our liberal democracy, and their children, deserve better.
TeddySanFran @ 125
spew alert!
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.
Tupac @
34
I see it was corrected in the original post. Am I at least gonna get some editing credit?
1. I agree with the criticisms of Maggie’s post at #49.
2. I’m late in expressing my appreciation to FDL for its role in producing Tuesday’s outcome.
It was obviously a ‘team’ victory, but it’s appropriate to recognize the people who organized the team and who do the heavy lifting – Pachacutec, Siun, TRex, others whose names I don’t know, and of course, Jane and Christy.
Back in June, right after her mom died, Jane got on the road for Connecticut. My mother had recently passed, and I was impressed and inspired. I think that Christy is right in saying that the Lamont campaign ‘changed the conversation’ and led to last week’s victories.
Thank you.
Try not to be petty, Teddy. Ever heard of a typo?
Linda @
77
Yikes! Disclaimer: I in no way associate myself with this Linda’s comments!!
BTW, Teddy @ 125, I wasn’t the person responsible for what you’re quoting. It’s still petty, though, to harp on such a trivial thing.
And for the record, RGB @105, I’ve been reading FDL for a good while — although I’ve never commented. I liked Lamont and would like to have seen him win. But he didn’t win and there’s a lesson to be learned from that. Don’t assume that everyone who disagrees with something that you said is a troll.
I wish Schumer or Reid or somebody would tell us exactly what they mean by “too far left.” What far-fetched policy initiatives do they identify with progressives? What in the world are they afraid of?
Linda said:
“Where s Howard Dean now?”
I think he was just doing a segment about the election on Fox News while appearing with George Bush’s spokesman.
That’s where he is.
-GSD
Linda @
132
Since you seem so concerned with “the record”, it’s RBG and my exact words were:
It’s interesting to see what you chose to infer from those words.
Pitch your tent in Dean’s camp. Prepare for battle.
The Battle of the Narrative. In Russia they called it The Year of Ten Victories ;)
Look here kids. You obviously are threatened by anyone who isn’t in lockstep agreement with your apparent party line. So I’ll be happy to leave and let you ramble on about facists, robber barons, mislabeled neocons (BTW, Donna Brazile, another well known neocon, is on the FDD board too) and the like. If this is where you’re at, Chuck Schumer is right on target ignoring you. You guys are going nowhere with talk like that.
Buzz me if and when you decide to return to planet earth.
Linda from NY @
137
well,well,well ….. sounds like we struck a nerve here. full disclosure: i have not read the comments but i did read pach’s post. very carefully. miss nancy, we be the ones with our feets on the ground. try venturing outside of NY and find out about the grass roots.
Pach: great job. as usual. we are definitely going to keep Howard Dean’s back. we owe Chuck Schumer No.Thing. he owes us some respect.
Pacifica @
92
Maggie your statements could not be more incorrect or more offensive. Although there are some highly visible Jewish supporters of the war in Iraq, they do not represent the mainstream of Jewish opinion in this country. Jews voted 87% to 12% for Dems over Repugs in this past election. I’m not sure what other group in this country has that kind of voting record.
While most American Jews, myself included, absolutely believe in Israel’s right to exist, we probably support the war in about the same numbers as everyone else.
And we probably do have stronger views on the Palestinian/Israeli conflict than most other people do, but that is because it has been part of our lives for decades, going back to long before a lot of that history was rewritten in America to become the truthiness that you now buy into.
it’s really easy to get confused about this. people often assume that all jews support everything that the israeli government does and, as you pointed out, this is not true. it would be like people around the world thinking that all americans support what george w. bush does. thankfully, november 7th’s repudiation of bush administration policies may help change that perception.
One last comment, fahrender.
I’ve lived in the midwest, I’ve lived in the south, I’ve lived in several states on the east coast before landing in NY. I’ve done small towns and big cities. I’ve contributed to campaigns and helped out at campaign headquarters. How about you?
Get a clue. The vast bulk of voters don’t want to hear what you’re selling and will just turn you off. That’s why Dean lost his primary and Lamont lost his general election.
Howard Dean will soon be gone and your claims of “keeping Howard Dean’s back” are silly. Just how are you going to accomplish that? By rambling on about it on the internet?
Chuck Schumer owes you nothing above and beyond what he owes every other voter who voted against Bush.
If you think that you’ve got your feet on the ground, take your head out of your butt and look around. Maybe things will look different and you’ll get a more pragamatic and realistic perspective on politics.
DLC Senators only owe other DLC Senators.
Who needs those pesky voters and their primaries?
_____________
G’nite, Firepups. Don’t let the K-bugs bite.
Linda @
77
Our reality is bigger than your reality, Linda, and I don’t know whether you and “Linda from NY” are the same people. Chuck Shumer probably isn’t the antichrist and he may not be a neocon, just a fellow traveler, but the point is that he and Rahm Emmaneul are claiming to be responsible for the victory on tuesday. the facts are that this victory has many architects and Rahm’s chosen and well-funded candidates won only eight seats. eight. not even half of the seats that democrats won. and the bloggers supported many more of the candidates that did win. we didn’t do it all, Chuck Schumer and Rahm Emmanuel SURE didn’t do it all. In fact, they drug their feet on some of these candidates and the candidates won anyway. So don’t preach to us about being fantasists and unsophisticated in the ways of the REAL WORLD. We live in it and Chuck and Rahm live inside the DC beltway. And all America can see what kind of reality that creates.
Linda from NY @ 140
I see. I make arguments which you have not refuted and you resort to comments like “take your head out of your butt”. classy. that’ll convince a lot of people. i think this conversation is over. time will tell about Howard Dean’s 50 state strategy. right now it’s looking pretty good.
Schumer allowed the special interests like the Bloomberg squad to aid and assist the bastard Loserman. The very high rollers Schumer courts and blows, were doing the work for him-ousting Lamont.
Incredibly egregious. Trying to deep six the valid Democratic nominee after a Dem primary ass whooping and then turn your fuckin back.
Yes, can’t trust Schumer. He’s
like….a Republican
Hi Linda, no untrue statements except “There isn’t going to be any big revolution.” Nobody knows if that’s a true statement or no. That most people and most institutional bodies don’t like big changes is a basic characteristic of human history, but even a cursory glance at history shows that this basic human characteristic has been violated, in big ways and small, time and again as far back as can be seen. Like the little leaf in the forest, movements are in the habit of germinating even despite innumerable polls clearly establishing “most people and most institutions don’t like big changes.” It’s almost as if human beings and the weather are closely related.
I wouldn’t dismiss the kids too quickly. Didn’t their vote go from something like 18% to 31%? Check it:
http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm
Even though it’s only the internet world internet, usage is increasing at the rate of hundreds of percent as we speak. I show people how to use the internets all the time, although not so much anymore because by now most people around here know how to use the internets.
People like Chuck Schumer want to slap down people like Howard Dean, but they will fail to do so. Yes, it certainly is true that he and others played a big part in this election result by playing the politics 101 card, namely graft in the dictionary.com sense, to wit: graft–noun 1. the acquisition of money, gain, or advantage by dishonest, unfair, or illegal means, esp. through the abuse of one’s position or influence in politics, business, etc. The acquisition of money, gain or advantage is the root of politics, evertbody with half a brain knows this. Politics answers the question of who gets the money, gain or advantage. So far, it has been more or less an improvement over classical feudalism, which is so-called conservatism taken to its logical conclusion.
Yeah, the insurance corp hq’s and the nuke sub white elephants put Lieberman over the top more surely than any of Schumer’s posturing did or ever could, people voted for their pocketbooks or, mpre accurately, whatever they perceived will put more money into them. The only thing I will say about that is, everyone who voted for Lamont used to vote for Lieberman… everyone but the new voters, that is.
With the frantic help of his Dem Party associates Lieberman managed to keep balance perched atop his pork-barrel – this is true, but so what. If there is one pearl in the half-chewed steaming pile of vomit that is the debacle visited upon the world and the American people by the Republicans, it is, as you correctly pointed out, that people better late than never are realizing that they cannot afford insane misappropriations of the wealth of the nation and voted accordingly. The staves of Lieberman’s pork-barrel are creaking.
A conservative corporatist will not even acknowledge the existence of those he’s robbing; a “dem” corporatist will smile and shake your hand.
Deep Throat should get a DC memorial or maybe his own internet for Best Quote To Date By Any American Ever. You know the one.
It’s this “drift” that Schumer doesn’t get. Americans are NOT conservative. Nothing about us (dress, language, music, entertainment, how we think, how we play, etc.) is conservative. He’s had too many sips of the republican kool aid. I say to Schumer, stop inflicting your erroneous opinions, that were shaped by republicans, on the democratic party. You’re trying to ‘play it safe’ in a country who just voted the bums out! You’re a power monster who likes to throw his weight around. Why if it isn’t Paul Hackett of Ohio, it’s Howard Dean. Your thinking is off — way off. Get with the program. Get off the soapbox.
Linda–
If you’re still around.
Most of us are acutely aware that the middle of a distribution has more in it than the tails. We perfectly understand the politics part of what Schumer is doing.
There’s a right way and a wrong way to do what Schumer is trying to do, preserving the gains post-victory. The right way is to spread credit around, bring everyone together, recognize the contributions, and use the left wing of your party for two purposes: to pull the cultural discussion further your way (Google “Overton Window” if you don’t know what I mean by this), and to slowly lead the voters. In fact, if you have a very trusting relationship with them, you can even demonize your left wing a little. If I really believed that the Schumers of the party trusted us, wanted us, listened to us, then I’d be perfectly happy to be cast occasionally as the bad cop.
You are 100% right that voters turn off anything too far away from them; just as I see students turn off anything that’s too far advanced for them. But that just means you slow down and build up to bring them along. It doesn’t mean saying “They’ll never understand.”
The Schumer approach, as it is playing out publicly, is essnetially saying, “We can’t educate the voters, we can’t convince them, they’ll never understand, so we should just go where they are.” That’s not leadership, and it’s a waste of a big victory. As I think Emma Anne said, we’ll go back to sucking.
Over the last two years, we have educated the voters. Nothing essential has been learned since 2004. In 2004, Iraq was a disaster, Bush had lied about it, Bush was grabbing all the power he could, Abu Ghraib had already happened, and everyone who cared to know about all of this did. The corruption of the Delay machine was well-known. Every single issue that voters gave for the voting in 2006 was already on the table in 2004. Yet he was reelected.
What changed was we educated people over the last two years. “We” here is everyone, but I think the netroots did play a special role in that–especially in pushing an a position of open and unembarrased opposition for the 2006 campaign. Lamont absolutely, positively led to this; there’s no doubt among anyone who will speak openly with you about it. People forget how unlikely he was considered to win even the primary just four months ago. It scared a lot of people in DC.
My midwest farmer 65-year old father, precisely the sort of person you’d probably say we’re completely turning off, has become an Americablog fan. We’re reaching people you’d be very surprised at.
And $19M may or may not be pocket change, but the point is: this time, we won the Senate only by a pocket-change margin. It’s a simple fact: had that $19M been spent in VA or MT, we wouldn’t be talking about how to preserve our victory. We wouldn’t have one.
Chuck,
Ya done good…
Dean did better!
And WE rocked!
The “50 States Program” tops the “Targeted Races” agenda, sorry. Now, get over it!
We need to be UNITED right now, not DIVIDED, Chuck and Rahm.
You, Dean, and we in the netroot’s, all helped to win this election. Equally…
Let’s all enjoy the victory.
And work TOGETHER in the future.
Together!
Peace, out…
We’ll kumbayah just as soon as they do. I don’t trust Schumer, Emanuel, Obama or Hillary. I am sick and tired of DLC/K Street politicians. It is the blogs that have given ordinary people a voice – not the GD Democrats. The DC insiders don’t have a clue. Corruption means them too – selling out to lobbyists, and telling people like us to kiss their ass because they own this party – not us, the people. Please keep on giving them an earful for us. The blogs are the only voice we have. While you guys do some coordination, you do so little with us. Maybe you can’t, and we need to be better at reading between everyone’s lines. All I know is that thanks to blogs and Dean, I’ve never had so much power as a citizen. I will donate to Dean, but I didn’t and won’t give a dime to the DSCC or the DCCC. In 06, you guys tried the carat. In o8, I think we will need the stick. Please not Obama or Hillary. One is a preachy religious novice, and the other is the Queen of of K Street. Noooooooo!
Forgive me if this has been posted, but at some point we are going to have to start our own party. Focus on a few blue states to start, and build from there. No pac money, no compromise…The People’s Party.
Might I suggest L. Chaffee as our first Senator. I agree he had to go as a repug, but as our candidate he would be an excellent choice.
I hate having to type this, but as a great (ass of a) president once said, “Fool me once….”. We all know where this is heading, and I DON’T LIKE THE SCENERY ON THIS RIDE.
Quote, “We’re not Limbaugh or Fox News”.
Yes, you are. Don’t be so self congradulating.
This web site has become shrill.
No one can see themselves for the trees.
I’m a life long democrat. make phone calls and canvas for the democratic party, worked in FL in 2006 – I’m an independent, free-spirited person and don’t like the military march you’re singing for conformity within the party. Reading this entry I had flash backs to Animal Farm. How horrible is that?
As millions were protesting the impending Iraqi war, I wrote to Schumer pleading for an anti-war vote/stance. His reply was so condescending (in effect telling me that there was so much I did’t know about the need to invade Iraq and that I need to listen to his august judgment) that I had to reply to his reply. I wrote that, as my elected representative, it was his job to listen to me and the rest of his constituents, not the other way around. Schumer is an oily opportunist, an eager self-promoter, a better grade Lieberman and a perfect example of the entrenched status-quo beltway dems. And his treatment of Dean is disgraceful and dangerous – the Dems would not have won without Dean. I hope we can limit or vote out the Schumers and Liebermans. Thanks for bringing this issue into the light.
Re discussion of Israel-Palestine and AIPAC upthread, virtually all poplitcians are up to their ears in AIPAC money/influence, Reid included. Pelosi include. Hell, just about everyone.
Breaking that connection, ok moderating it to where its not the gorilla in the room, is a big part of getting some integrity back in US politics.
You’re not going to get that from Schumer or Clinton. We have to keep talking about it and maybe, maybe, someone one will eventually listen. But at this point its a tail wagging dog venture,with the comeback being “antisemitc, antisemitc! To put it crudely, that puppy’s gotta be drowned.
Yeah…this is a good post.
The reason there’s no ‘trust’ right now is pretty straightforward in my mind. Progressives in the netroots see themselves as having worked really, really hard to win back the Congress, and the Dems in DC were happy to have all the volunteers, money, etc. And then the Dems win and the first thing that happens is a whole big discussion about how the radical liberal netroots will take over the party if we’re not careful. So, Harry Reid posts a “thank you” note on Kos, but the rest of the conversation shifted to “Oh, no! Someone call pest control before these progressives ruin everything…”
How should Reid improve communication between the netroots and the party leaders? Well, for starters Reid needs to make a public statement acknowledging how glad he is that the grassroots of the party helped win the election. That has not happened, yet. I mean…HELLO! Instead we get the sudden return of James Carville–who was in the restaraunt business last time I checked.
So…how about a hat tip, Harry? How about a little more than an invitation-only conference call with a few selected bloggers?
The Dem leadership had the trust of the netroots–and they lost it in the 72 hours since Wednesday morning. And now, frankly, we’re all waiting around to see which Democratic Presidential candidate is going to stand up first and accuse us of being what’s wrong with America.
The risk is huge, here, and the Dems in DC do not see it yet. They do not see how much the netroots invested of themselves in this election, and how much people felt a sense of exclusion after the victory. Those kinds of snubs have a lasting impact, but there is still time to make it right.
This should all have been obvious to most. Schumer, Lieberman, Clinton have all run away from politicians in their own party that have taken strong stands against Bush and the war, Murtha and Feingold for example.
I hate to say it but, they are controlled by the money that flows from Zionists like Rupert Murdoch.
No one here is arguing for a lock-step march within the party, we are arguing for integrity, trust, and a government that is responsive to voters not powerful corporations.