Jane!

Oh goodie – now I get to read the post!

Congratulations, Jane – your work here has done so much for so many.

Hope you’re having a wonderful week.

Veterans!

Fighting Dems!

Webb!

Great Post.

I’m rather glad my father, a WWII veteran and a rarity in politics – a politician who fought for civil rights and veterans’ rights – isn’t alive today to witness the treatment today’s veterans receive from a bunch of pantywaist rich boys with “other priorities.”

Also Jane, what a wonderful photograph. You and Christy seem to always find the perfect pic to illustrate a post.

I have this photograph posted on the front door of my gallery today. It is my one of my favorite photographs and despite looking at it hundreds of times it still sticks in my throat.

“Burst of Joy.” Slava Veder, 1974

Jane, when I think of veterans, I think of my father. He served in ROTC and went into the Navy when he graduated (still during the War). Served overseas, not in combat, but it was four years of his life. His younger brothers served and benefitted from the GI Bill.

I also think of my grandfather, who served in France in WWI. Didn’t see combat, but came close. He was active in the American Legion the rest of his life.

I would like to see the new Democratic majority make fairer treatment of veterans a high priority.

Not only that, but we need to make expanded treatment of PTSD and brain injuries a top priority. (Hell, it would probably be a good idea to make screening for PTSD mandatory, since the troops are trained to be tough guys and not ask for treatment.) Not only is it the right thing to do for vets, without it we’re all going to be paying for this war in yet another way for years to come.

When we were drafted in ‘65 we all (in my high school) answered the call. And I was gung-ho. By ‘67 I was disgusted. Some of my pals didn’t come back.

Seriously, my Pop had only one vacation in his life. And that was to Normandy for Uncle Sam. Here’s to you Pop, on this, another Vet. Day, w/out you. And here’s to you, Iraq Vets.

If this country appreciated the people who served it, we would have a GI Bill which would give the current veterans of our wars the same benefits that the “greatest” generation got.

Thank you.

Good for your dad and his work – the VA psych inpatient wards sure seemed overwhelming to me, and I was staff. I so respect your dad’s capacity to serve there for all those years.

Being at the VA in the 80’s was disturbing in many ways. The tales of the secret discharge codes first sounded paranoid – until the staff confirmed it was government policy.

The first time I heard about the crappy health benefits given to those discharged in the 80’s, I thought there was a mistake. The vets I knew – my dad’s WWII generation – didn’t have restricted health coverage.

Nope – crappy veterans’ health benefits had become policy under Reagan.

Hope your wish for veterans becomes a plank in the Dems’ 100 hours program. The vets have already been kept waiting far too long.

Happy Veterans’ Day to my dad and Jane’s dad and all the vets.

well, Jane, this Vietnam Vet is going to continue honoring dead friends and comrades by cleaning the coffee pot, sharpening the skates and putting in 20 miles on the brand-new ice on the lake. Strider will follow for the first five miles or so, but then he’ll go back to shore, and lay by the fire, watching me skating by every five minutes or so.

My father served in WWII (non-combat) and post-war occupied Japan. hey Dad, are you FDL lurking today?

what was the deal with the secret codes? that link didnt work for me

Great post -teve. I think that you cannot emphasise too strongly what the GI bill and other wwii vets benefits did for the country and the middle class. My dad went to school on the GI bill and it was his ticket to the middle class. The long term implications of current policy are very socially destructive.

What is appalling is not only the abuse that veterans experience at the hands of an uncaring government, but their use as props for unpopular wars.

“Support our troops” is only a rallying cry when the real issue is “support the corrupt, cynical, conniving evildoers who are willing to send our kids to war”.

The soldiers, the veterans, their parents and spouses and kids are all pawns to bad governments, whether Nixon’s or Bush’s.

Young people almost never choose to go to pointless wars in which their indelible mark will be dead civilians, tortured innocents, raped children, homeless millions, and widespread terror. They want to defend their country, and they are lied to.

They need to be welcomed home with honor and support and jobs and healing. Otherwise their trauma suffuses everyone’s lives, and the rest of the country never sees the horror wrought by inept, cowardly and corrupt political decisions.

jane hamsher @
14

Great post -teve. I think that you cannot emphasise too strongly what the GI bill and other wwii vets benefits did for the country and the middle class. My dad went to school on the GI bill and it was his ticket to the middle class. The long term implications of current policy are very socially destructive.

Jane, I’m a bit slow here…I thought you were the author (web page thinks so…)

Refresh your screens folks, this post was done by Steve Gilliard and has been very nicely expanded since it was first posted.

I didn’t dodge the draft. I simply checked “Yes” on the Whoopie Box : “Do you have homosexual tendencies ?”

“TENDENCIES ? Darling when I was in first grade I had tendencies. Now they’re — ”

Well you get the picture.

So the nice you officer at the desk (who I would have been quite interested in were the setting more conductive to . . .conversation) barked to the boys behind me “OK. let’s have some room here — back up!”

He then leaned up from his desk and asked in a hushed tone “Do you play the man or do you play the woman?”

As no such notion had ever occurred to me I said “Both.”

So he stamped my form and sent me off to the shrink.

However they were so backed up that day I never saw him. Another official simply gave me a “4F” and thus I NEVER WENT TO VIETNAM!!

But don’t think for a moment I didn’t do my bit for “Our Boys” on the home front. I did my level best to uh. . .entertain them all.

Especially sailors.

Oh I love a man in a uniform! Navy whites with half the buttons on the pants undone. “Here let me help you with the rest of those buttons,” I said to sailor who hand rambled into the Ramble.

Ah those were the days!

Tender Buttons indeed.

Presidents Truman, Carter, FDR and JFK. These were Men.

jane hamsher @ 14

Great post -teve. I think that you cannot emphasise too strongly what the GI bill and other wwii vets benefits did for the country and the middle class. My dad went to school on the GI bill and it was his ticket to the middle class. The long term implications of current policy are very socially destructive.

That’s because the all-volunteer forces are poor and black. So we can throw them away when used. It’s not a leg up to the middle class life they deserve, but a way station in a life of lurching from dead end job to dead end joblessness.

I guess I’m angry.

If the Democrats push a veteran-friendly bill through the Congress, what is Bush going to do–veto it? (that would really put his policies in perspective). Or embrace it as his own? (taking credit where no credit is due).

I wonder if Congress has the power to end the multiple tours of duty that National Guard and stop-loss folks are having to endure.

Steve, Happy Veterans’ day to your dad – and I respect his work on the wards!

“lurching from dead end job to dead end joblessness” is preferable to lurching towards death.

OT: It’s been mentioned that we should work against Dem. Rep. William J.(Cold Cash) Jefferson of Lousiana. He has a runoff election coming up on December 9. Why don’t we help his Democratic opponent, Karen Carter for a couple of weeks?

The post is great – but seems to have a lot of repeated paragraphs.

A mod might want to see if the redundancies can be eliminated.

The two greatest things that helped America and the world heal after WWII?
The GI Bill of Right’s and the Marshall Plan. One helped keep and grow peace and prosperity at home, and the other grew them in Europe and Asia.

Too bad the putrid Bush Administraion has cut Veteran’s benefit’s and tried to suck the money out of everyone but the rich…

Evil. That’s all I can say. EVIL…

Bush, the anti-Marshall!

punaise @ 12

My father served in WWII (non-combat) and post-war occupied Japan. hey Dad, are you FDL lurking today?

Mine was in occupied Germany; Weisbaden (SP?). Army Air Corps. (non-combat, but he enlisted Jan. ‘42 aged 29, ‘for the duration’. Mechanic.)

I recall he was in awe at the destruction our bombing had done to whole cities. He got to see it from the air.

That’s how he’d be lurking today. From on high.
——-
Wanted to post this link re: warranttless wiretaps. Not a good omen.AP story via YahooNews

Freedom fought for flushed.

A portion of Gilliard’s post is repeated, starting I believa with “Now, things have turned…”

I think they should start showing the coffins again and the faces of the deceased. That can do wonders for stopping a war.

Lets not give in until all vets are covered for what ever they need and the kids in public schools get civics and government classes and the opportunity to develop a craft if they are not intellectually inclined.
Lets keep on until there is a Marshall plan for Iraq and the idiots on tv no longer talk as if Iraq drove itself to the edge.

from today’s WaPo…

“Webb can also be expected to take the lead on veterans issues. He will be representing a state that has among the highest percentage of veterans in the nation.

He said he immediately wants to introduce bills to give tax breaks to soldiers and educational assistance to veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, similar to the World War II-era GI Bill.”

Another reason to be glad he won…it is about damn time.

Thank you, Steve, for honoring our veterans today with this eloquence. I heard on the teevee yesterday that there are thousands of homeless Vietnam veterans. There are 600 homeless Iraq War veterans already. How can this be? How can we not house, feed, medicate, succor and otherwise provide for those damaged when defending our freedoms?

My earliest memory of Veterans Day is my Dad arriving home from work mid-afternoon, very upset. He went directly to his workshop, door closed. Mom sat me down and explained that this was the day, every year, when he visited the still-bereft parents of his best friend from high school, who did not come home from the Pacific theatre.

Please thank a veteran today, or if the veteran is departed, please thank a veteran’s family.

Serving in the military during the Viet Nam war should be honored. Not serving and being against that war is not dishonorable. Avoiding service by being placed in a safe National Guard unit because of a well connected father and then not even completing that minimal service deserves scorn.

Now, things have turned to the point where Webb’s Vietnam service became a sign of character, while the draft dodging of George Allen was used against him.

I don’t think it’s as simple as that. Most liberals seem to treat military service like this: Serving in the military is honorable. That said, there’s no automatic pass just for serving.

BUT: if you avoided serving, you’d better not use members of the military to push your own agenda, up to and including using them up to push your agenda. Bush v. Kerry made military service an issue because Bush started a bad and completely optional war, and treated those in the service like crap, all while he and Cheney avoided any hint of danger in the Vietnam era.

(And for the trolls out there, I’ll state the obvious: National Guard service is honorable, but the National Guard in the Vietnam era was a popular way for the privileged to keep their kids safe and out of danger.)

Clinton got a pass on his avoidance of Vietnam (for the most part) because he treated the military with respect throughout his administration. The current batch of warhawks doesn’t.

Military service is only an issue against someone when the hypocrisy becomes obvious, not when someone did or didn’t serve.

dipper @ 29

I think they should start showing the coffins again and the faces of the deceased. That can do wonders for stopping a war.

Yes, what happened to the “Fallen Hero” segments on the nightly network newcasts?

Steve..excellent post..My experience, working with vets in VA hospitals and with relatives who are vets, it that the “shooters” rarely talk about what “it” was like. Again, in my experience, these vets are the least likely to beat the war drums or to be the go get’m VFW types. The book “Stolen Valor”, with all of its flaws, showed me how vets are exploited.

Questions raised by Neo Cons about Clinton’s committment of troops to Bosnia.

(Note Zero American KIA in Bosnian action)

“You can support the troops but not the president.”
–Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

“Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years.”
–Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

“Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?”
–Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

“[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy.
He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost.
And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy.”
–Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)

“American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery.
Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy.”
–Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

“If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.”
–Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush

“I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . I didn’t think we had done enough in the diplomatic area.”
–Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

“I cannot support a failed foreign policy.
History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace.
This administration is just learning that lesson right now.
The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions.
A month later, these questions are still unanswered.
There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory.
There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program.
There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military.
There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake.
There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today”
–Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

Back in 1999 when Bush was then-governor of Texas and running for President, he said the following 17 days into the bombing of Kosovo:

“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is.” – George W. Bush – Houston Chronicle April 9, 1999
–Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

Before they went mad with power.

Forty one years ago this week (1965), I turned 17 years old and my dad took me to my local Air National Guard base to get on the waiting list. My sister happened to be employed at my local Selective Service board. Two years later, I was invited to join the MdANG and my sister told me they were pulling folders for induction from the file drawer that contained my file.

So despite going on the waiting list at the earliest opportunity, I came within a whisker of being drafted into the US Army. This was before the days of the draft lottery numbers.

After I returned from basic training and tech school, I discovered that many if not most of my fellow airmen had gotten into the ANG without a two year wait because their parents had political connections. Most had used up their student deferrments or had flunked out of college. I recall that one airman reportedly leapfrogged the waiting list and got into the ANG in the two week window after receiving his induction notice.

The main mission of the ANG seemed to be to keep a segment of young Marylanders in short haircuts. Most of the time during drills we did busy work or watched training film (I still have my projectionists license LOL).

But I’ve never been able to get over the injustice of how the sons of the politically well connected (See G.W. Bush, Dan Quayle, and others) were able to avoid Vietnam service.

Ya think W’ll swap out Bolton for BigFoot Hughes, who’s done so well with the Muslim hearts’n’minds?

windje @ 37

Questions raised by Neo Cons about Clinton’s committment of troops to Bosnia.

(Note Zero American KIA in Bosnian action)

“You can support the troops but not the president.”
–Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

“Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years.”
–Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

“Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?”
–Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

“[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy.
He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost.
And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy.”
–Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)

“American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery.
Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy.”
–Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

“If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.”
–Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush

“I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . I didn’t think we had done enough in the diplomatic area.”
–Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

“I cannot support a failed foreign policy.
History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace.
This administration is just learning that lesson right now.
The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions.
A month later, these questions are still unanswered.
There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory.
There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program.
There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military.
There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake.
There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today”
–Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

Back in 1999 when Bush was then-governor of Texas and running for President, he said the following 17 days into the bombing of Kosovo:

“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is.” – George W. Bush – Houston Chronicle April 9, 1999
–Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

Before they went mad with power.

I’ve seen that list of quotes a few times before, and I never get tired of reading it. It gets even better when you look at where some of the speakers are now.

David Ehrenstein @
23

“lurching from dead end job to dead end joblessness” is preferable to lurching towards death.

and brussel sprouts are better than a shit sandwich

“If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.”
–Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush

They do have a way with words.

windje@37 If videos of those comments were available, what a commercial it would have made.

I spent the last half of my tour in Nam in the 107th Signal Company, Rhode Island National Guard. The Guard was callled up in the wake iof the King assassination and 8 units were sent to Vietnam. Obvioulsy this was a drop in the bucket and the Guard and Reserves were just another part of a bigger picture of the priveldged avoiding the war.

“Path to War” strives hard to humanize McNamara — there are brief views of him agonizing at the grave of President Kennedy, choking up at his farewell speech and offering a half admission at a congressional hearing that “expectations” of winning might not be realized.

But in doing this, the film overlooks the darkest aspects of his reign as a Vietnam War mastermind, including his shameful brainchild, Project 100,000. By 1966, President Johnson was fearful that calling up the reserves or abolishing student deferments would further inflame war protesters and signal all-out war. And so, even after McNamara began privately declaring the war was unwinnable, the defense secretary devised Project 100,000.

Under his direction, an alternative army was systematically recruited from the ranks of those who had previously been rejected for failing to meet the armed services’ physical and mental requirements. Recruiters swept through urban ghettos and Southern rural back roads, even taking at least one youth with an I.Q. of 62. In all, 354,000 men were rolled up by Project 100,000. Touted as a Great Society program that would provide remedial education and an escape from poverty, the recruitment program offered a one-way ticket to Vietnam, where “the Moron Corps,” as they were pathetically nicknamed by other soldiers, entered combat in disproportionate numbers. Although Johnson was a vociferous civil rights advocate, the program took a heavy toll on young blacks. A 1970 Defense Department study disclosed that 41 percent of Project 100,000 recruits were black, compared with 12 percent in the armed forces as a whole. What’s more, 40 percent of Project 100,000 recruits were trained for combat, compared with 25 percent for the services generally.

Since “Path to War” makes much of Johnson’s civil rights concerns, the filmmakers had a perfect place to introduce the awful irony of Project 100,000 — the scene where LBJ pins a Purple Heart on a wounded black soldier. Unfortunately, few today recall this particularly shameful chapter from the war. Even two decades ago, accounts of Project 100,000 in my book “Long Time Passing: Vietnam and the Haunted Generation” were met with disbelief — even by many who had lived through the era. Soldiers remembered it, however. As Herb DeBose, a former black first lieutenant who was director of a New York City employment program for veterans, said at that time, “I think McNamara should be shot. I saw him when he resigned from the World Bank, crying about the poor children of the world. But if he did not cry at all for any of those men he took in under Project 100,000, then he really doesn’t know what crying is all about. Many weren’t even on a 5th-grade level.”

Thanks Steve, excellent post and very relevant on Vets Day. Both my father and brother were Marines, and my wife’s grandfather was a double amputee from the Battle of the Bulge.

I think a real GI Bill would be an awesome thank you to those who have sacrificed for this disasterous war.

windje, I’ve seen each and every one of those hypocritical quotes before. (But keep on printing them!)

The great thing about the authors of those quotes is that they have been repudiated beyond question. They have all been severely limited in power or banished from the Halls completely. You can only get away with fooling the people for so long…

Bring our vets home and take care of them when they get here for gawdsakes!

I had a dear one serve in the first Gulf War and he was hurt during the war; he got precious little and next to nothing from his Government when he came home, including healthcare or any help for his promised education.

Proud to serve, still.

I used to work in the VA– it is heartbreaking to see the victims of war– both the old and the young and realize that what has happened to Bush’s and Cheney’s and Rumsfeld’s “all volunteer army” is disgraceful beyond belief.

Jim Webb and so many understand this.

Thank you sirs and ladies.

rat bastahd @ 46

windje, I’ve seen each and every one of those hypocritical quotes before. (But keep on printing them!)

The great thing about the authors of those quotes is that they have been repudiated beyond question. They have all been severely limited in power or banished from the Halls completely. You can only get away with fooling the people for so long…

Bring our vets home and take care of them when they get here for gawdsakes!

My parents were liberated from the Nazis in 1945, and I owe the vets of this country a debt of gratitude I can never ever come close to repaying.

Thanks for the great post Steve…..

I’m a navy brat…I served in the Air Force…I knew many, many Viet Nam vets. I never knew one who was spat upon but I knew many who came back disillusioned and angry. And I know our vets now are getting a raw, raw deal….

great post..thanks for reminding us on the Veteran’s Day

hizzhoner….

Senator-elect James Webb included in his campaign a call for a new Veterans’ Bill, similar to the one after WWII.

I personally pledge to work to get returning vets their mental health care. We sent them over there to hell, we owe it to them to care for them upon their return.

By the way some older vets are developing screaming nightmares and other PTSD symptoms–Vietnam, Korea, even guys from WWII. Norske help me ought here, you know about this.

And not just mental health; physical health. And not to need food stamps–a disgrace! And respect. And no more stop-loss.

My father was in WWII, Navy. Both grandfathers were in WWI, Grandpa Mc got shot at in France. Other ancestors were in the Civil War, 1812, and Revolution. This used to be a rite of passage for manhood. Highly recommend Webb’s book Born Fighting, which talks about the military in America.

We count on them to be there, but if we continue to abuse and neglect them and send them into vanity wars, they might change their minds about participating.

In the early 70’s, the GI Bill gave me enough money to pay for law school, and with the money I saved while I was in the Army and a minor part-time job, I graduated debt-free. My parent’s generation, the WWII crowd, knew that it was worth it to put money into the future of their children.

My generation, the baby boomers, ate the seed corn. We have put nothing into the future. We ate the infrastructure our parents laid down, we let the schools rust, we let our kids graduate with huge debt from college and professional schools, and then we whine about taxes. And, we starve our teachers and mistreat our veterans. Then we watched without interest while the greedheads sucked the money out of the economy. This is the Reagan generation in action.

It is going to take a lot more than one election to change this selfish attitude, but I have a lot of hope that people can be retaught the lessons our parents learned from their parents.

egregious says: We count on them to be there, but if we continue to abuse and neglect them and send them into vanity wars, they might change their minds about participating.

What we have here is economic conscription, imo. As long as we have a large pool of urban & rural poor, the middle class won’t have to worry about their well-scrubbed little ones being conscripted. They assuage their guilt by sticking magnets on their gas-guzzlers.

Steve,

The link you are referring to has an error (extra ‘.’ at the end of the link).

I believe the correct link is:

http://www.dallassecurity.com/…..Nalpha.doc

Yea, that was after they finally adjusted it so you could actually half-way survive on the GI Bill. When I came home in 69 I got almost the same dollar amount my dad got after WWII. I had to take out loans to be able to afford the dorm (after 3years in the Army, a year in Korea and 10 months in the Nam, I couldn’t live off campus at Illinois becuase I was only 19.
masaccio @ 51

In the early 70’s, the GI Bill gave me enough money to pay for law school, and with the money I saved while I was in the Army and a minor part-time job, I graduated debt-free. My parent’s generation, the WWII crowd, knew that it was worth it to put money into the future of their children.

My generation, the baby boomers, ate the seed corn. We have put nothing into the future. We ate the infrastructure our parents laid down, we let the schools rust, we let our kids graduate with huge debt from college and professional schools, and then we whine about taxes. And, we starve our teachers and mistreat our veterans. Then we watched without interest while the greedheads sucked the money out of the economy. This is the Reagan generation in action.

It is going to take a lot more than one election to change this selfish attitude, but I have a lot of hope that people can be retaught the lessons our parents learned from their parents.

I did not know there were so many veterans on the ‘lake.

Thank you, patriots, for your service to our Republic.

masaccio @ 51

In the early 70’s, the GI Bill gave me enough money to pay for law school, and with the money I saved while I was in the Army and a minor part-time job, I graduated debt-free. My parent’s generation, the WWII crowd, knew that it was worth it to put money into the future of their children.

My generation, the baby boomers, ate the seed corn. We have put nothing into the future. We ate the infrastructure our parents laid down, we let the schools rust, we let our kids graduate with huge debt from college and professional schools, and then we whine about taxes. And, we starve our teachers and mistreat our veterans. Then we watched without interest while the greedheads sucked the money out of the economy. This is the Reagan generation in action.

It is going to take a lot more than one election to change this selfish attitude, but I have a lot of hope that people can be retaught the lessons our parents learned from their parents.

Your parent’s generation probably had memories of the Great Depression as well, or certainly had heard directly from their parents about how bad it was.

Nice post Masaccio. The baby boomers have totally ignored our national infrastructure, to all of our detriment. From education to health care to the environment to transportation, these fuckers have run us into the wall.

My family is right on the border of working and middle class. I was the first male (the oldest of my generation) who went to college instead of going into the military (and so far the only person to graduate, not to mention get a post-graduate degree). College was always the plan for me; I’d considered going to the Naval Academy, and later reconsidered ROTC, but I chose not too and I’ve always been incredibly grateful to the rest of my family that I had that option.

I don’t know how or if any of my family benefited from the GI Bill — my grandfather served in WWII, so he may have gotten a mortgage or other more obscure benefits, but none in my mother’s generation (Vietnam) did as far as I know. My best friend in high school joined the Army to get college money, and ended up getting wounded on the DMZ in Korea — then when he got out and tried to go to a prestigious art school, the Army jerked him around on the payments so bad that he was forced to drop out after a year and a half.

Twisted Martini @ 57

Nice post Masaccio. The baby boomers have totally ignored our national infrastructure, to all of our detriment. From education to health care to the environment to transportation, these fuckers have run us into the wall.

So much for the love generation & the Age of Aquarius.

My friends went to Korea. I worked in the defence industry. I like the spell check. Nice format.

Dreams of Children

Bodies too thin, at the check point.
Papaya on a stick or peanuts their fare.
Some have no home or sign of a parent.
They sell their wares and beg for handouts.
Their eyes hurt and crush your bones.
Some grown men make jokes and lash out.
The men of valor can’t stand the pain.
They throw C-ration cans to hurt and maim.
Not one day older, slant eyed kids for years.
They are at the road, waiting for me to come back.
Living on the street is their war game.
Maimed by the war, forgotten in the pain.
Their eyes do not carry any of their names.
The shame of heroes are these eyes in my heart.
M.Mercer

Fortunate Son by John Fogerty

Some folks are born
made to wave the flag,
Ooh, they’re red, whit and blue.
And when the band plays “Hail to the chief”,
they point the cannon right at you.

It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no senator’s son.
It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no fortunate one.

Some folks are born
silver spoon in hand,
Lord don’t they help themselves.
But when the tax man comes to the door,
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale.

It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no millionaire’s son.
It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no fortunate one.

Some folks inherit
star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war.
And when you ask them,
“How much should we give?”
They only answer “More! More! More!”

It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no military son.
It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no fortunate one.

It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no Fortunate Son.

With regard to the attitude some of us had about Vietnam veterans, my apology is over at my humble blog.

It is my great joy that we are working WITH veterans this time, including some terrific people here at the lake.

The baby boomers have totally ignored our national infrastructure

Huh? I’m sure you meant Republican baby boomers, right?

PeteCO @ 52

egregious says: We count on them to be there, but if we continue to abuse and neglect them and send them into vanity wars, they might change their minds about participating.

What we have here is economic conscription, imo. As long as we have a large pool of urban & rural poor, the middle class won’t have to worry about their well-scrubbed little ones being conscripted. They assuage their guilt by sticking magnets on their gas-guzzlers.

As the middle class parent of a moderately well-scrubbed, soon-to-be draft age son, I have no objection to a national service program of which military service is one option among many.

(I do not however, drive an SUV or sport any magnets.)

My grandfather was President of the American Legion for our city. When I was young it was great watching them march every Memorial Day from the town center to the cemetery. Of course in those days I didn’t really understand the cemetery part.

He must have suffered to see me openly oppose the Vietnam War. But he never said anything to me. We have to try to do what we think is right in each generation.

I’m going to write this before I read your apology. I don’t think anybody owes anybody and apology. Everyone made mistakes. The people I knew in the anti-war movement when I cam home were anything but anti-veteran or antisoldier for that matter. People wanted the senseless killing stopped. Does than mean the NVA and VC were not vicious killers? No. Does that mean that lots of individual Americans did lots of positive things for the Vietnamese. No. But in sum total the war was an abomination and the longer it went on the more polarized we became the crazier shit got. Don’t look back too much, they might be gainin’ on ya!

egregious @ 62

With regard to the attitude some of us had about Vietnam veterans, my apology is over at my humble blog.

It is my great joy that we are working WITH veterans this time, including some terrific people here at the lake.

egregious,
‘they might change their minds about participating.’
I know you didn’t intend it to sound the way it did, but everyone, remember, “they” are we.
“They” don’t come from somewhere else. “They” are part of us. “They” ARE us! They are we, and we are them.
That’s America’s Volunteer Army. And we need to do everything possible to help them. I want to see a new GI BIll of Right’s for every generation of people who serve or have served.
I didn’t. I missed being drafted into ‘Nam. I’m too old now. And too cowardly, if I were young enough, to be honest…
But, I admire and honor those who served. And I want our government to honor them too.
George only gives lip service and uses the soldiers as props.

punaise @ 64

PeteCO @ 52

egregious says: We count on them to be there, but if we continue to abuse and neglect them and send them into vanity wars, they might change their minds about participating.

egregious edit END OF MY QUOTE, THE REST IS PETECO

What we have here is economic conscription, imo. As long as we have a large pool of urban & rural poor, the middle class won’t have to worry about their well-scrubbed little ones being conscripted. They assuage their guilt by sticking magnets on their gas-guzzlers.

As the middle class parent of a moderately well-scrubbed, soon-to-be draft age son, I have no objection to a national service program of which military service is one option among many.

(I do not however, drive an SUV or sport any magnets.)

We stopped progress on the ERA, that’s Equal Rights Amendment for women, because we thought it would lead to expanding the draft to women. People on the right didn’t want women in the military, and people on the left didn’t want an expanded pool of cannon fodder. Otherwise I think the EPA would have become a Constitutional Amendment.

There were some issues with protecting pregnant women who were working, but the draft was the main objection imho.

OFT:
Please suggest questions for Timmeh to ask OldTimer McCain and LIEberman tomorrow on Meet the Press!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6913788/

Cozumel @ 63

The baby boomers have totally ignored our national infrastructure

Huh? I’m sure you meant Republican baby boomers, right?

Not necessarily. Those selfish baby boomers are the same ones who like Rahm and Billary and who continue to hamstring the progressive movement.

I’m skipping down here to the bottom. As of two and a half years ago, the Bush administration was busy reducing the number of VA hospitals specializing in the treatment of PTSD. No need for it anymore, I guess. Everything being peachy keen and all that.

Oh, and off topic, the All Blacks just smashed France in rugby in Lyons….40 to 3. Not a single try for the supposedly second-ranked team in the world. (as this sports ignorant person understands it. But even a sports ignoramus like myself gets the power of the haka and can enjoy the beauty of Daniel Carter.)

And Georgia whipped Auburn’s ass!

NZ Expat @ 71

I’m skipping down here to the bottom. As of two and a half years ago, the Bush administration was busy reducing the number of VA hospitals specializing in the treatment of PTSD. No need for it anymore, I guess. Everything being peachy keen and all that.

Oh, and off topic, the All Blacks just smashed France in rugby in Lyons….40 to 3. Not a single try for the supposedly second-ranked team in the world. (as this sports ignorant person understands it. But even a sports ignoramus like myself gets the power of the haka and can enjoy the beauty of Daniel Carter.)

c u n d gulag at 67, point taken, I said “they” because at the time I would have been eligible for military service, it was heavily male. As a female, this was an unlikely career choice.

massacio 51 — you’ve said a mouthful and a half.

When you talk about seed corn, you are talking about investment.

The GI Bill was one of many investments we made into America.

Every time I’ve heard one of these moronic talking heads in this administration talk about an “ownership society”, I want to scream. The only persons who own anything under their schema are themselves — they own 90% of Americans below them, the people who serve in their military, the people who build their roads, the people who care for and teach their children. The “owner class” don’t want to invest in these people; they simply want to own them.

Why is it this “owner class” that also holds the largest amount of investable assets don’t understand this fundamental rule: there are no dividends without an investment. They want something out of nothing.

Not going to happen.

I think about the hassles my stepson has had with the VA and the Montgomery Bill since he served in Iraq 2003-2004; he’d done nothing to deserve these hassles, has more than paid his dues, did as he was told and came back with PTSD for his troubles. What’s his yield on his investment of time and commitment? More hassle?

And what exactly are the American people going to get out this lack of investment? Another law-abiding, tax-paying, well-educated citizen, or a messed-up, stressed-out problem case moving from one crappy job to another for lack of education?

Of course we won’t let this happen to him. But there are so many other vets like him who do not have a family safety net. They will bring us a yield we deserve for failing to invest in them.

And Michigan is whupping on the Hoosiers. The Blue is putting it to Big Red. Again.

Twisted, I know where I’ll be next Sat.!!!

Let’s see if we can turn Ohio blue again!

A friend of a friend used the GI BIll after he got back from ‘Nam. Multiple degrees later – he figured they owed him – he’s a college professor, teaching both philosophy and government (and things like karate on the side).

I’m thinking this is the tip of the iceberg. There was a staff sergeant in Iraq on the tube who said, “I’ve lost good people here, if we leave before we complete the mission what did they die for?” When this shit falls apart we are going to have another generation of vets who feel like suckers for their sacrifice.

Rayne @ 74

massacio 51 — you’ve said a mouthful and a half.

When you talk about seed corn, you are talking about investment.

The GI Bill was one of many investments we made into America.

Every time I’ve heard one of these moronic talking heads in this administration talk about an “ownership society”, I want to scream. The only persons who own anything under their schema are themselves — they own 90% of Americans below them, the people who serve in their military, the people who build their roads, the people who care for and teach their children. The “owner class” don’t want to invest in these people; they simply want to own them.

Why is it this “owner class” that also holds the largest amount of investable assets don’t understand this fundamental rule: there are no dividend without an investment. They want something out of nothing.

Not going to happen.

I think about the hassles my stepson has had with the VA and the Montgomery Bill since he served in Iraq 2003-2004; he’d done nothing to deserve these hassles, has more than paid his dues, did as he was told and came back with PTSD for his troubles. What’s his yield on his investment of time and commitment? More hassle?

And what exactly are the American people going to get out this lack of investment? Another law-abiding, tax-paying, well-educated citizen, or a messed-up, stressed-out problem case moving from one crappy job to another for lack of education?

Of course we won’t let this happen to him. But there are so many other vets like him who do not have a family safety net. They will bring us a yield we deserve for failing to invest in them.

Twisted Martini @ 70

Cozumel @ 63

The baby boomers have totally ignored our national infrastructure

Huh? I’m sure you meant Republican baby boomers, right?

Not necessarily. Those selfish baby boomers are the same ones who like Rahm and Billary and who continue to hamstring the progressive movement.

I guess I read your post wrong and you didn’t really take out an entire generation ; ) Of which I’m pretty sure make up the bulk of FDL ; )

Twisted Martini @
57

Nice post Masaccio. The baby boomers have totally ignored our national infrastructure, to all of our detriment. From education to health care to the environment to transportation, these fuckers have run us into the wall.

Don’t trust anyone over 40 and under 60…?

Yes, lot’s of us took advantage of the opportunities that the bill afforded. The problem is that those who could have most benefited (in terms of race and class) were the least likely to do so.

P J Evans @ 78

A friend of a friend used the GI BIll after he got back from ‘Nam. Multiple degrees later – he figured they owed him – he’s a college professor, teaching both philosophy and government (and things like karate on the side).

Twisted Martini @
57

Nice post Masaccio. The baby boomers have totally ignored our national infrastructure, to all of our detriment. From education to health care to the environment to transportation, these fuckers have run us into the wall.

I don’t entirely agree with that assumption. This neglect began in the Reagan administration. People under 35 assume that it’s been going on forever, but it hasn’t. This is a Republican tendency, the tendency to neglect in favor of the wealthy, and it always has been. It’s not been solely directed at social spending, but government spending of any kind which benefits society as a whole, and that attitude of indifference to the commons went into overdrive from the moment Reagan took office.

Wanna blame the boomers? Blame the Republican boomers.

I am concerned about the legislation that was just passed and signed which nationalized the National Guard. Governors don’t have ultimate control over the anymore? How did that happen?

I think it was in the same bill that expanded powers of the president to declare martial law. Yay us.

And needless to say I am horrified that our Guard are being sent to Iraq two, three, four times when what they VOLUNTEERED to do was DEFEND OUR COUNTRY. HERE.

Probably a reaction to the stupidity of Katrina.

egregious @ 84

I am concerned about the legislation that was just passed and signed which nationalized the National Guard. Governors don’t have ultimate control over the anymore? How did that happen?

I think it was in the same bill that expanded powers of the president to declare martial law. Yay us.

I think Webb and others Dems could make a very smart move by drafting legislation ELIMINATING the “tax cuts for the top 1%” that Bush championed, and linking that new income to veterans’ benefits. [Maybe throw some $$$ to Head Start or housing; I don’t know the magnitude of the $$$ that would result.]

As someone said above, what’s Bush gonna do — veto the bill?

I think it’s VERY important, however, to link the granting of veterans’ benefits to an income source. Otherwise they’ll just take it out of health care, Stafford loans, etc.

As I dimly recall, tax legislation needs to originate in the House, but isn’t Rangel going to be Chair of Ways & Means?

The boomers who have been in power since 1980 have predominantly been Thugs. But the triangulators haven’t helped us in the long term.

Our committment to Blue America and Act Blue, as well as Democracy bonds, etc show that we Progressives are willing to pay any price, bear any burden.

Raven — they already know the answer to the question, those that haven’t drunk the Kool-Aid.

They know they were sent on a fool’s errand.

But our response to them is what counts. My stepson knows our intent in encouraging him to join the service was driven by completely different motivators; we wanted him to acquire some maturity and personal discipline, some space from problematic family members, see other parts of the world so he could appreciate the U.S. from a more educated perspective, serve his country with honor.

He did that. And that’s enough. So did all the other troops who’ve served; they did what they were asked on behalf of their country, and that’s enough. It has to be, as painful and lacking as that seems to be for the price that so many have paid and will pay.

It’s the boomer’s fault? Sweeping generalizations anyone? Incredibly insulting and also just downright silly.

Didn’t we have a whole host of hippie-turned-capitalist “trickle-downers”?

“Me me me” seems to have created an unprecedented uber-rich class with a gaping hole between them and everyone else.

Their utter lack of concern for anyone beneath them, resources they burn, or even an ounce of respect for the “system” (the infrastructure and stability built by their forebearers) that allowed them to create their little empires is what we all must now fight to correct.

TeddySanFran @ 35

dipper @ 29

I think they should start showing the coffins again and the faces of the deceased. That can do wonders for stopping a war.

Yes, what happened to the “Fallen Hero” segments on the nightly network newcasts?

Saw a program on tv today about people who process personal effects from people who either died or were severely wounded. They said they averaged about 21 a day. How severely wounded do you have to be, to have your personal effects sent home? Are we not getting the full picture of the numbers killed and those who are physically alive, technically, but who are destroyed?

Cliff Varnell @ 82

Twisted Martini @
57

Nice post Masaccio. The baby boomers have totally ignored our national infrastructure, to all of our detriment. From education to health care to the environment to transportation, these fuckers have run us into the wall.

Don’t trust anyone over 40 and under 60…?

Yes, I’m not quite sure how to take this.
As a baby boomer myself, I have: never cheated on income taxes, never even filled out an itemized tax return, never got credit for home mortgage interest paid (we were told we made too little, so it was better not to do the itemized one); we’ve voted for every school levy, every Democratic senator, congressman, mayor, city council person, president.
How am I eating my seed corn? How did my husband eat his, after serving in the Air Force for 10 years?

I hope you are right and that they all have the kind of support you are giving. I see them in airports and want to say someting positive to them but when I look back I don’t think I would have liked it. It’s got to be deeper and I will look for ways to do that.

Rayne @ 88

Raven — they already know the answer to the question, those that haven’t drunk the Kool-Aid.

They know they were sent on a fool’s errand.

But our response to them is what counts. My stepson knows our intent in encouraging him to join the service was driven by completely different motivators; we wanted him to acquire some maturity and personal discipline, some space from problematic family members, see other parts of the world so he could appreciate the U.S. from a more educated perspective, serve his country with honor.

He did that. And that’s enough. So did all the other troops who’ve served; they did what they were asked on behalf of their country, and that’s enough. It has to be, as painful and lacking as that seems to be for the price that so many have paid and will pay.

This isn’t a new phenomenon. As WWII wound down, there was much handwringing over what to do with the millions of combat vets who, through answering their nation’s call to self-defense, were suddenly seen as a threat due to their exposure to the horrors of combat. There was serious consideration of exile/quarantine until each and every combat vet showed he no longer showed violent tendencies. So much for the Greatest Generation.

Twisted Martini @ 57

Nice post Masaccio. The baby boomers have totally ignored our national infrastructure, to all of our detriment. From education to health care to the environment to transportation, these fuckers have run us into the wall.

Let’s not go into a “the baby boomers did it” meme. Ageism or generationism could mask the real issue in the same way racism does.

These are class issues. This is class warfare. The most effective tool the aristocrats have is to fool us into fighting the wrong war.

. . . but such hoary fiscal prudence was as naught next to Bush and Cheney’s sense of entitlement. “We won the midterms,” Cheney told O’Neill after the 2002 election, to justify his (or the president’s; it’s not clear whose) decision to cut taxes on dividends. “This is our due.”

The aristocrats and the corporatists know which war they are fighting. They’d like nothing better than to pit generation vs generation while they continue to plunder the money.

I don’t think people have any idea of the real toll. We save even more on the battlefield now than we did in Vietnam and many of those folks will never recover.
egregious @ 91

TeddySanFran @ 35

dipper @ 29

I think they should start showing the coffins again and the faces of the deceased. That can do wonders for stopping a war.

Yes, what happened to the “Fallen Hero” segments on the nightly network newcasts?

Saw a program on tv today about people who process personal effects from people who either died or were severely wounded. They said they averaged about 21 a day. How severely wounded do you have to be to have your personal effects sent home? Are we not getting the full picture of the numbers killed and those who are physically alive, technically, but who are destroyed?

In Chechnya, people felt that the government list of those killed was far too small, so they made their own list.

Do we need to do this for the fallen of Iraq and Afghanistan?

Raven — remember Steve G’s comments about the Vietnam vets? the homefront didn’t acknowledge or validate those vets; the ticker tape parade for hostages was only a symbol of the void of response that met them.

Doing anything to acknowledge them is a huge step up; more would be nice, but we start where we are.

And getting their backs with better, reliable and accessible benefits will do the rest. I know my stepson’s recent flare up of PTSD would have been lessened or non-existent if he hadn’t had bureaucratic hassle with the VA.

rat bastahd,

Didn’t we have a whole host of hippie-turned-capitalist “trickle-downers”?

Well, if you believe that crap Fidelity Investments commercial that hippie, turned Democrat, turned Republican is some sort of natural progression. I think it’s garbage ; )

They started working on the GI Bill (Servicemen’s Readjustment Act) almost as soon as WWII started. Based on their experience with the “Bonus Army” the government knew that there had to be some kind of shock absorber when Johnny Came Marching Home. It was as much of an anit-revolution measure as it was a reward from a grateful nation.

Geoffrey @ 93

This isn’t a new phenomenon. As WWII wound down, there was much handwringing over what to do with the millions of combat vets who, through answering their nation’s call to self-defense, were suddenly seen as a threat due to their exposure to the horrors of combat. There was serious consideration of exile/quarantine until each and every combat vet showed he no longer showed violent tendencies. So much for the Greatest Generation.

Re Virginia having a high % of veterans, I believe we are 5th. The other four would be: West Virginia, Alaska, and ? Alabama? Mississippi? Georgia? Help me out here.

Agreed, I just have always felt that it was the “dominant culture” that ignored us much more than the anti-war folks. I went down to our new VA Medical center a couple of weeks ago and they promptly lost my paperwork. The they didn’t like it when I loudly pronounced, “new building same old bullshit”. I’m fortunate, I don’t their “benefits” but I think the folks sitting there who do need them were glad to see someone tell them to shove it.

Rayne @ 97

Raven — remember Steve G’s comments about the Vietnam vets? the homefront didn’t acknowledge or validate those vets; the ticker tape parade was only a symbol of the void of response that met them.

Do anything to acknowledge them is a huge step up; more would be nice, but we start where we are.

And getting their backs with better, reliable and accessible benefits will do the rest. I know my stepson’s recent flare up of PTSD would have been lessened or non-existent if he hadn’t had bureaucratic hassle with the VA.

Sorry. Kinda long. But it’s worth it

The Final Inspection

The soldier stood and faced God,
Which must always come to pass.
He hoped his shoes were shining,
Just as brightly as his brass.

“Step forward now, you soldier,
How shall I deal with you?
Have you always turned the other cheek?
To my church have you been true?”

The soldier squared his shoulders and said,
“No, Lord, I guess I aint.
Because those of us who carry guns,
Can’t always be a saint.

I’ve had to work most Sundays,
And at times my talk was tough.
And sometimes I’ve been violent,
Because the world is awfully rough.

But, I’ve never took a penny,
That wasn’t mine to keep …
Though I worked a lot of overtime,
When the bills got steep.

And I never passed a cry for help,
Though at times I shook with fear.
And sometimes, God, forgive me,
I’ve wept manly tears.

I know I don’t deserve a place,
Among the people here.
They never wanted me around,
Except to calm their fears.

If You’ve a place for me here, Lord,
It needn’t be so grand.
I never expected or had too much,
But if you don’t, I’ll understand.”

There was silence all around the throne,
Where the saints often trod.
As the soldier waited quietly,
For the judgement of his God.

“Step forward now, you soldier,
You’ve born your burdens well.
Walk peacefully on Heavens streets,
You’ve done your time in Hell.”

Author Unknown

Semper Fi, Dad

2000 Census

egregious @ 100

Re Virginia having a high % of veterans, I believe we are 5th. The other four would be: West Virginia, Alaska, and ? Alabama? Mississippi? Georgia? Help me out here.

I apologize for the generalization. ALL generations have good and bad. I was just reading the Baby Boomer entry on Wikipedia.

Baby boomers presently make up the lion’s share of the political, cultural, industrial and academic leadership class in the United States. Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, born within sixty days of each other in mid-1946, are the first and second Baby Boomer presidents, and their careers in office illustrate the wide, often diverging spectrum of values and attitudes espoused by this largest American generational group to date.

To date, baby boomers also have the highest median household incomes in the United States.[1] There are early boomers that the generation is identified by, and late boomers who did not experience the 1960s and were not subject to the military draft. Nonetheless, demographic popularizers have referred to them as a generation for the cultural factors they shared went far deeper than the triviality of a foreign conflict, more people were killed on the nations streets and by-ways in any single year of the conflict, than were lost to enemy action.

The second boomer generation (late boomer, early gen Xer’s) are still in their forties, and many have yet to “leave their mark upon history,” a desire that drives most leaders of this generation. Patterns of history for Idealist generations suggest that Boomers will have a long tenure of political office and cultural influence, as was true for the Awakeners of Benjamin Franklin and Samuel Adams, the Transcendentals of Abraham Lincoln and Walt Whitman, and the Missionaries of Franklin Delano Roosevelt and George Catlett Marshall. Strauss and Howe’s posited patterns of history indicate that Boomers will occupy the upper echelons of worldly power through a likely Crisis Era that will not end until about 2020. The best Idealist leaders demonstrate vision, decisiveness, and culture that allows them to lead in the best manner in the worst of times.

A caveat applies: the arrogance, selfishness, and ruthlessness that Strauss and Howe attribute to an unusual degree in all prior Idealist generations can lead to factional strife (as during the American Civil War) or to outright despotism. Younger generations may need to rein in these destructive tendencies.

2000 Census Sorry, can’t edit.

My mother’s cousin Trevor died in WWII. What a beautiful young man. Here’s to you, Trevor.

On income inequality:

According to the Federal Reserve, in 1990 the richest 1 percent of America owned 40 percent of its wealth — the greatest level of inequality among all rich nations, and the worst in U.S. history since the Roaring Twenties. Furthermore, the richest 20 percent owned 80 percent of America — meaning, of course, that the bottom four-fifths of all Americans owned only one fifth of its wealth.

Another revealing way of expressing this statistic is that the top 1 percent owned more than the bottom 90 percent combined.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/4Inequality.htm

I know a wee bit about this, since my masters thesis was done on it many moons ago.

Twisted Martini -

You’re a good egg. Well, maybe a good olive. :)

Twisted Martini @ 87

The boomers who have been in power since 1980 have predominantly been Thugs. But the triangulators haven’t helped us in the long term.

Our committment to Blue America and Act Blue, as well as Democracy bonds, etc show that we Progressives are willing to pay any price, bear any burden.

What boomers came into power in 1980?

Eliott Abrams?

How many top Reagan aides were born after 1945?

Fuggeddaboudit…

egregious @ 98

In Chechnya, people felt that the government list of those killed was far too small, so they made their own list.

Do we need to do this for the fallen of Iraq and Afghanistan?

Have been thinking that for awhile. It seemed to me that cutting off all access to the air base in Dover, DE was about more than bad PR.

I’m not trying to be a “tin foil hat” type. Just don’t trust this crowd to tell the truth about anything.

egr at 50 “Norske help me ought here” maybe that’s the Old English pronunciation :)

egregious,
No critisism was meant before. Only clarification.

As to your point about the National Guard being nationalized, that was one of my biggest fears recently.
Shrub could do a lot of damage with that. Using the US and Interstate road’s to stop a rebellion. Arresting, torturing, and holding people caught in any rebellion forever…
After Tuesday, I feel like a new man.
Since 1980, I’ve had an inkling of what was planned, and feared it. 1994 made me more afraid. 2000 was the nightmare I had long forseen. But, since the lead up of lies to the war, I was no longer afraid. I was angry and resolute!
Now, after Tuesday, I feel like a free man.

I don’t think I’ll – c u n d gulag after all :-)
Any idea’s for a new moniker? Anyone?

Very third hand info but I thot I saw where a t-shirt with the names of the fallen was against the law in a couple of states?

Do we really have the full list of the dead? I dispense with the obligatory tinfoil comment under the circumstances.

Let’s see the full list, and check every newspaper account of local dead and see if everyone is on it. Good size project, who’s in?

Cliff Varnell @ 111

Twisted Martini @ 87

The boomers who have been in power since 1980 have predominantly been Thugs. But the triangulators haven’t helped us in the long term.

Our committment to Blue America and Act Blue, as well as Democracy bonds, etc show that we Progressives are willing to pay any price, bear any burden.

What boomers came into power in 1980?

Eliott Abrams?

How many top Reagan aides were born after 1945?

Fuggettaboudit…

OK, I see. Everyone born after 1945 was a top Reagan aid ; )

I think the communcation between the troops and folks at home is too efficient to allow widespread deception. Didn’t some FDL’ers try to make a case that the explosion at Camp Flacon resulted in casualties that were not reported or covered up?

Jane (nyc) @ 112

egregious @ 98

In Chechnya, people felt that the government list of those killed was far too small, so they made their own list.

Do we need to do this for the fallen of Iraq and Afghanistan?

Have been thinking that for awhile. It seemed to me that cutting off all access to the air base in Dover, DE was about more than bad PR.

I’m not trying to be a “tin foil hat” type. Just don’t trust this crowd to tell the truth about anything.

Va Hospital staff has been privatized – outsourced – so that no government benefits are provided to v.a. hospital workers. Teh quality of care has plummeted since Clinton left and Dubya did his thing with the VA.

The repubs have really hurt people – workers, veterans, old people and kids. My father, a disabled veteran, died this year due to poor care.

Egreg, Steve G posted a list of 2006 casualties this morning.

http://stevegilliard.blogspot……-2006.html

raven 103 — doesn’t that kind of crap make you want to reach across the counter and touch somebody?

For cryin’ out loud, they don’t do that in for-profit hospitals, lose your paperwork. Why can’t they do better than that?? It’s not like the government doesn’t end up paying more for healthcare systems than private sector; they should get better for the money.

It’s that kind of systematic neglect that tripped off my stepson’s last flare up. He couldn’t get a straight answer from anybody, kept running around in circles trying to get his school money, all the while his personal savings are draining away. He was panicking, on the verge of a meltdown. Took me hours to get him calmed down, weeks before the edge was gone. [sigh]

Hackworth -

I’m so sorry to hear about your dad. btw, your name just made me think how pleased General Hackworth would be right now. I believe he was the prime mover in getting the Darby Abu Ghraib photos out into the public sphere. He was quite a fighter before he passed.

egregious @ 115

… Do we really have the full list of the dead? I dispense with the obligatory tinfoil comment under the circumstances.

Let’s see the full list, and check every newspaper account of local dead and see if everyone is on it. Good size project, who’s in?

Right here [scroll down]

Thank you Steve Gilliard.
It is the VETERAN , not the preacher,
who has given us freedom of religion.
It is the VETERAN , not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the VETERAN , not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the VETERAN , not the campus organizer,
who has given us freedom to assemble.
It is the VETERAN , not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the VETERAN , not the politician,
who has given us the right to vote.

It is the VETERAN , who salutes the Flag.

Jane (nyc) @ 111

egregious @ 98

In Chechnya, people felt that the government list of those killed was far too small, so they made their own list.

Do we need to do this for the fallen of Iraq and Afghanistan?

Have been thinking that for awhile. It seemed to me that cutting off all access to the air base in Dover, DE was about more than bad PR.

I’m not trying to be a “tin foil hat” type. Just don’t trust this crowd to tell the truth about anything.

Don’t apologize for being very suspicious.

The tin foil hat meme goes like this…

Criminal conspiracies exist at all levels of society — except at the very top.

If you think criminal conspiracies exist at the top levels of the ruling elite — you’re insane, you’re one of those people who sit on their roof waiting for the aliens to come and get them…

And who enforces this meme?

The mouthpieces of the ruling elites and the Left Gatekeepers who fear some loss of “credibility” if liberals ask hard questions about the physical evidence of high level criminality.

I’d like to see the tfh meme go the way of the 8-track, personally…

Well put Ray.

Hackworth, I worried so when my brother went into a VA hospital after having a stroke. He was there for a long time, and I am in another state. I got to talk to nurses but not to him, for weeks.
I’m sorry about your father. That should not happen in our country.

Pat Tillman.

Do you think the Pat Tillmans of the future are going to sign up to defend us, once they see how our current troops are being treated?

The alternatives are not good. Discuss.

Cozumel @ 115

Cliff Varnell @ 111

Twisted Martini @ 87

The boomers who have been in power since 1980 have predominantly been Thugs. But the triangulators haven’t helped us in the long term.

Our committment to Blue America and Act Blue, as well as Democracy bonds, etc show that we Progressives are willing to pay any price, bear any burden.

What boomers came into power in 1980?

Eliott Abrams?

How many top Reagan aides were born after 1945?

Fuggettaboudit…

OK, I see. Everyone born after 1945 was a top Reagan aid ; )

I count one. Abrams. And I’m not crazy about being lumped in with that piece of shit, either.

I’m sure he would want to make sure he was refered to as Colonel Hackworth, the soldier’s soldier.

Jenny from the Blog @ 121

Hackworth -

I’m so sorry to hear about your dad. btw, your name just made me think how pleased General Hackworth would be right now. I believe he was the prime mover in getting the Darby Abu Ghraib photos out into the public sphere. He was quite a fighter before he passed.

This is just a drive-by thought. I did a lot of reading and researching on Webb while waiting for results (I have a thing for redheaded guys). One thing that struck me was that he talked about his journey from injurd soldier that left the Dem. party to finally healing and returning to his populist roots.
He said that 9/11 finally put the divisions of the Vietnam war to rest for him.
It’s an interesting idea, that maybe finally the rift in that generation is healing.

TeddySanFran @ 55

I did not know there were so many veterans on the ‘lake.

Thank you, patriots, for your service to our Republic.

I don’t remember what the thread was but some months ago we discussed military issues and SO MANY people here were vets. It was eye opening.

A toast to all fdl vets. We love you.

In reading through all these heartfelt comments, I don’t see much about why we have the problems we do in addressing veterans’ issues. It’s not just neglect. There’s a bigger problem behind it that, it seems, no one wants to home in on.

It’s this country’s tendency to militarism, and the ways in which that militarism is manifested. We keep getting examples of the reasons, which we selectively choose to ignore. A very large part of the problem with money for veterans’ services is the amount of money we spend on defense, as paradoxical as that seems. Most people today do not realize that there was a coordinated effort, immediately after WWII, to keep US defense spending at wartime levels (one of the principal reasons why we chose to immediately demonize a country that had been a wartime ally only a year before).

Ever since then, we have been spending between five and nine times the amount necessary to maintain the military at peacetime levels. At the same time, we continue to engage in wars of choice which add to the number of veterans requiring care and/or veteran’s benefits.

Complicating all this is the fact that both parties are complicit in this militarism and this utter waste of resources. Both use defense spending–and war–for political purposes. Over six decades, it now has become impossible to separate simple acknowledgement of military service from adulation of the military, and that has caused problems within the military (anyone doubting that should be reading Andrew Bacevich’s The New American Militarism) and with our ability to bring that militarism under control.

I say this not as some far-left hippie who spat on soldiers (largely a myth perpetrated by the right in this country), but as someone who has spent life growing up in a military family and who has served himself–despite exceedingly strong misgivings about doing so during a time of an illegal and irrational war of choice–Vietnam.

If we do not break from this past, this manic need to spend money we do not have on defense, on war, if we do not come to our senses, all the problems Steve mentions will go on, and will probably become worse, with time. There will be even less money in the future to care for those who served.

In the attempt to justify our actions, in our attempts to show respect for the military, we end up glorifying the horror of war, and the need for ever more military spending. I often wonder why it is that we still have a VFW. Most of its membership from WWI and WWII should be gone now. But, that’s not the case. Why? Because we continue to fight wars on foreign soil. We continue to replenish its ranks. We have not used our military to defend our own territory in sixty years.

If you all wonder why it is that we don’t treat our veterans better, it is because we acquiesce in the political, rather than existential, determination to spend ever more on the military in preparation for the next war of choice. To complain about the amount of money we spend on veterans’ services is to treat a symptom as a cause, which is guaranteed to never produce a solution.

Cheers.

Seconded. OOOH RAAAH!

About draft dodging…and the disparaging of those who chose that path…and I don’t mean macacawitz…I guess you had to be there. I fortunately missed being in danger by a year, but they still drew numbers, and mine came up low. My cousin 2 years older than me fortunately had a high number. In both our cases, had we been selected, we would have been off to Canada. We lived in Michigan, close to Canada, we knew how to get there. Hell, there were Detroit commuters who lived in Canada. It was easy if you knew how.

This was a decision of conscience for many, and it cost a lot of people dearly. Remember that by the time my number came up, 2 Kennedy’s and King dead, Muhammad Ali had already gone to and been released from jail, Kent State had already happened, Kerry had already thrown his medals, the secret bombing of Cambodia, which is what Kent State and all the other demonstrations that week were about, had happened. We were in the middle of Watergate. People were asking why tens of thousands had to die when Nixon could have gotten the same peace terms 5 years before. It was vivid to the eyes of a 17 year old that the older generations had absolutely no regard for the lives of people of my generation.

That, plus in my case, somewhere deep down inside, I knew that I had just enough mental illness and my own case of PTSD raging before I even got called to go, that I would have turned out like Private Pyle in Full Metal Jacket.

Five or so years ago, I was spending some quiet time at a B&B on Vancouver Island and got to talking to the owner. He was an American who went north to dodge the draft. As we took a lazy sail around the bay on his catamaran and shared a joint, he told me what his family and friends had gone through when he left, and what became of some of his friends who did join the service.

I have the greatest respect for service people and there should be a new GI bill like my father had at the end of WWII to create a new middle class. But I also ask that they respect what was clear to me was my only option had I had to make that choice. I mean, fer crissake, just recently I got all kinds of shit from somebody who is still laboring under the delusion that Vietnam was all about defending our freedom and bringing democracy to Southeast Asia. Some things never change.

Yea, that’s why he refuses to shake Kerry’s hand.

UptownNYChick @ 130

This is just a drive-by thought. I did a lot of reading and researching on Webb while waiting for results (I have a thing for redheaded guys). One thing that struck me was that he talked about his journey from injurd soldier that left the Dem. party to finally healing and returning to his populist roots.
He said that 9/11 finally put the divisions of the Vietnam war to rest for him.
It’s an interesting idea, that maybe finally the rift in that generation is healing.

My dad was in and out of the VA hospital for 20 years. I know from him how bad things have gotten with VA budget cuts and privatization. Dad used to enjoy good care and service when Clinton was president. Dubya has damaged the VA like everything else he’s touched. He truly is the Reverse King Midas.

Really, Webb refused to shake Kerry’s hand? Mad about the winter soldier stuff?

I agree with you partner. Sometime’s it took more courage to stand up and say no by leaving. Tim O’Brian in “The Things They Carried” talks about his decision whether to go to Sweden or the Nam. He says he was “too embarassed not to kill”.

MikeinSeattle @ 134

About draft dodging…and the disparaging of those who chose that path…and I don’t mean macacawitz…I guess you had to be there. I fortunately missed being in danger by a year, but they still drew numbers, and mine came up low. My cousin 2 years older than me fortunately had a high number. In both our cases, had we been selected, we would have been off to Canada. We lived in Michigan, close to Canada, we knew how to get there. Hell, there were Detroit commuters who lived in Canada. It was easy if you knew how.

This was a decision of conscience for many, and it cost a lot of people dearly. Remember that by the time my number came up, 2 Kennedy’s and King dead, Muhammad Ali had already gone to and been released from jail, Kent State had already happened, Kerry had already thrown his medals, the secret bombing of Cambodia, which is what Kent State and all the other demonstrations that week were about, had happened. We were in the middle of Watergate. People were asking why tens of thousands had to die when Nixon could have gotten the same peace terms 5 years before. It was vivid to the eyes of a 17 year old that the older generations had absolutely no regard for the lives of people of my generation.

That, plus in my case, somewhere deep down inside, I knew that I had just enough mental illness and my own case of PTSD raging before I even got called to go, that I would have turned out like Private Pyle in Full Metal Jacket.

Five or so years ago, I was spending some quiet time at a B&B on Vancouver Island and got to talking to the owner. He was an American who went north to dodge the draft. As we took a lazy sail around the bay on his catamaran and shared a joint, he told me what his family and friends had gone through when he left, and what became of some of his friends who did join the service.

I have the greatest respect for service people and there should be a new GI bill like my father had at the end of WWII to create a new middle class. But I also ask that they respect what was clear to me was my only option had I had to make that choice. I mean, fer crissake, just recently I got all kinds of shit from somebody who is still laboring under the delusion that Vietnam was all about defending our freedom and bringing democracy to Southeast Asia. Some things never change.

raven @ 135

Yea, that’s why he refuses to shake Kerry’s hand.

UptownNYChick @ 130

This is just a drive-by thought. I did a lot of reading and researching on Webb while waiting for results (I have a thing for redheaded guys). One thing that struck me was that he talked about his journey from injurd soldier that left the Dem. party to finally healing and returning to his populist roots.
He said that 9/11 finally put the divisions of the Vietnam war to rest for him.
It’s an interesting idea, that maybe finally the rift in that generation is healing.

Until now, I guess

MikeinSeattle — well put. I don’t think it’s inconsistent to admire and support those who chose to join the military and at the same time admire and support those who refuse to join in a “bad” war. Vietnam was as wrong as Iraq is. I actively urge young people NOT to join the military currently because this administration treats the military with such contempt. But I still admire and love and want the best possible deal for every person who does join.

My father and grandfather were veterans and proud democrats. I am a democrat only. I hope to be proud again soon, when our democratic congress goes to work and demonstrates strength of character and courage to do the right thing.

Yes, if you read his books he hammers the VVAW. In “Field of Fire” one of his grunts jones the VVAW when he comes home and he portrays him as a real loser. Now this should not be a surprise, I mean he’s Annapolis and a Marine Coprs Officer. Most of the Swift Boat clowns were officers and they have been stewing for 30 years. However, as I searched for Webb’s article about Kerry and Bush in the last persidential I came across this Kerry Endorses Webb So apparently politics continue to make strange bedfellows.

Twisted Martini @ 137

Really, Webb refused to shake Kerry’s hand? Mad about the winter soldier stuff?

mea culpa

my bad

UptownNYChick @ 139

raven @ 135

Yea, that’s why he refuses to shake Kerry’s hand.

UptownNYChick @ 130

This is just a drive-by thought. I did a lot of reading and researching on Webb while waiting for results (I have a thing for redheaded guys). One thing that struck me was that he talked about his journey from injurd soldier that left the Dem. party to finally healing and returning to his populist roots.
He said that 9/11 finally put the divisions of the Vietnam war to rest for him.
It’s an interesting idea, that maybe finally the rift in that generation is healing.

Until now, I guess

Twisted Martini @ 137

Really, Webb refused to shake Kerry’s hand? Mad about the winter soldier stuff?

Yes for 30 years. That’s why their reconciliation is so amazing.

montag,

I say this not as some far-left hippie who spat on soldiers (largely a myth perpetrated by the right in this country)

Isn’t that the truth. I was in the second to last lottery and didn’t get called (high number), and was anti war. And I had friends that went to Vietnam. I’ve never seen any of this mythical animosity. Then as now, I support the troops but not the policy.

He said that 9/11 finally put the divisions of the Vietnam war to rest for him.
It’s an interesting idea, that maybe finally the rift in that generation is healing.

I do, however. think this is unrealistic. In my opinion the last presidental demonstrated that almost no one had changed their position from 1969. I go to many vets events visit the Wall on Veterans Day, and even have worn “Together Then, Together Again” buttons. The Swift Boat shit exploded that for me.

dipper @
29

I think they should start showing the coffins again and the faces of the deceased. That can do wonders for stopping a war.

The other thing that does wonders for stopping a war is the refusal to serve and press coverage of demonstrations. In all this soldier worship, please do not lose track of that fact. Stop bashing the Viet Nam draft dodgers. They knowingly threw away life as they knew it to object to an immoral war. They were as courageous as any soldier. Also, draft dodger is a perjorative. Conscientious objector was a legitimate avenue of protest.

Plus, many Viet Nam vets were welcomed home with parties and banners and accolades. Look back through some archived newspapers and you’ll find evidence. Certainly there were heated exchanges with peace activists, but as a result some vets joined in with the anti-war sentiment. I think the ‘conventional wisdom’ about vets coming home without appreciation is probably viewed through some biased glasses. I lived through it. I cried for my friends who died there, I was overjoyed and showed it when they came home alive, and I demonstrated and organized against that evil war in every way I could. I cannot abide the revisionist history oozing into our collective consciousness these days. The Viet Nam war was wrong. That doesn’t mean I hate our soldiers.

Also, do not fall into the trap of labeling candidates according to some perceived scale of military service benchmark. That cuts out too many qualified people from political office. There are many career tracks that prepare people for political service, not just military service.

Well I’m off to another event. Yes guests and fashion to be recorded later here. [btw this is NOT how I thot I wd spend my life. I envisioned a more normal middleclass existence. But must carefully use all assets, as the Bible insists.]

Just realized it’s been a year since my humble blog was started. Thanks to all who hae been part of the Ministry of Encouragement and team egregious. I NEED YOU and I THANK YOU.

Right on dipper!

terri @ 147

dipper @
29

I think they should start showing the coffins again and the faces of the deceased. That can do wonders for stopping a war.

The other thing that does wonders for stopping a war is the refusal to serve and press coverage of demonstrations. In all this soldier worship, please do not lose track of that fact. Stop bashing the Viet Nam draft dodgers. They knowingly threw away life as they knew it to object to an immoral war. They were as courageous as any soldier. Also, draft dodger is a perjorative. Conscientious objector was a legitimate avenue of protest.

Plus, many Viet Nam vets were welcomed home with parties and banners and accolades. Look back through some archived newspapers and you’ll find evidence. Certainly there were heated exchanges with peace activists, but as a result some vets joined in with the anti-war sentiment. I think the ‘conventional wisdom’ about vets coming home without appreciation is probably viewed through some biased glasses. I lived through it. I cried for my friends who died there, I was overjoyed and showed it when they came home alive, and I demonstrated and organized against that evil war in every way I could. I cannot abide the revisionist history oozing into our collective consciousness these days. The Viet Nam war was wrong. That doesn’t mean I hate our soldiers.

Also, do not fall into the trap of labeling candidates according to some perceived scale of military service benchmark. That cuts out too many qualified people from political office. There are many career tracks that prepare people for political service, not just military service.

I think I meant right on Terri!
raven @ 149

Right on dipper!

terri @ 147

dipper @
29

I think they should start showing the coffins again and the faces of the deceased. That can do wonders for stopping a war.

The other thing that does wonders for stopping a war is the refusal to serve and press coverage of demonstrations. In all this soldier worship, please do not lose track of that fact. Stop bashing the Viet Nam draft dodgers. They knowingly threw away life as they knew it to object to an immoral war. They were as courageous as any soldier. Also, draft dodger is a perjorative. Conscientious objector was a legitimate avenue of protest.

Plus, many Viet Nam vets were welcomed home with parties and banners and accolades. Look back through some archived newspapers and you’ll find evidence. Certainly there were heated exchanges with peace activists, but as a result some vets joined in with the anti-war sentiment. I think the ‘conventional wisdom’ about vets coming home without appreciation is probably viewed through some biased glasses. I lived through it. I cried for my friends who died there, I was overjoyed and showed it when they came home alive, and I demonstrated and organized against that evil war in every way I could. I cannot abide the revisionist history oozing into our collective consciousness these days. The Viet Nam war was wrong. That doesn’t mean I hate our soldiers.

Also, do not fall into the trap of labeling candidates according to some perceived scale of military service benchmark. That cuts out too many qualified people from political office. There are many career tracks that prepare people for political service, not just military service.

Ray Mann @
123

Thank you Steve Gilliard.
It is the VETERAN , not the preacher,
who has given us freedom of religion.
It is the VETERAN , not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the VETERAN , not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.
…..g.

I know this seems to be true, but it is not. There are many more people who have accomplished these feats besides veterans.

wiki jingoism

From The New Yorker, 30 Oct 06, “Southern Discomfort,” by Peter J. Boyer:

When President Clinton left office, Webb wrote, “It is a pleasurable experience to watch Bill Clinton finally being judged, even by his own party, for the ethical fraudulence that has characterized his entire political career.”

Quite an interesting article which I didn’t find flattering to Webb in many respects relative to his attitude about some things during and after the Vietnam war. I’m still trying to square this with the Webb of today. (It’s stated here he refused to shake John Kerry’s hand for twenty years.)

You got it. I sent money to his campaign because I think squashing Allen’s presidential hopes was crucial. But he bears watching, progressive he ain’t.

Sally @ 152

From The New Yorker, 30 Oct 06, “Southern Discomfort,” by Peter J. Boyer:

When President Clinton left office, Webb wrote, “It is a pleasurable experience to watch Bill Clinton finally being judged, even by his own party, for the ethical fraudulence that has characterized his entire political career.”

Quite an interesting article which I didn’t find flattering to Webb in many respects relative to his attitude about some things during and after the Vietnam war. I’m still trying to square this with the Webb of today. (It’s stated here he refused to shake John Kerry’s hand for twenty years.)

Jim Webb on his anger after Vietnam and being a Democrat.
it’s toward the end.
I was born after Vietnam,, so to me, it’s tough to see it in black and white. I do understand, however, that some people grow and heal.

My dismay abhout my generation arises from my sense that those of us who thought of ourselves as liberals did not do enough to secure the future, whatever we did. I know I agreed with Al Franken on SNL, a skit in which he said: you are probably wondering how this Reagan tax cut affects me, Al Franken. Well, I make a lot of money, a whole lot more than practically everybody watching tonight. So, this is just great for me. My tax cut is probably greater than many of you will make all year. And the best part is, I didn’t vote for any of the people who gave me this huge tax break, so I don’t even have to feel guilty!

When the Jesus people started in on the abortion issue, I used to say that they could pass any legislation they wanted, it would not affect me, I have money and therefore I have choices.

I don’t like to blame an entire generation for anything, but the number of people in my group who really committed to fight the good fight was just too small, and didn’t include me.

The Commonwealth combine their Memorial and Veteran’s Day into Remembrance Day. So if you see people walking around with red flowers in their lapel, they’re probably British or Canadian.

…or Australian, New Zealander,Pakistani, India, Singapore, Maldives, Brunei, Sri Lankan, Malta, Bahamas, Jamaican, Ghana, South African, Ugandan (in fact 16 [I think?] African countries)…and more than a few more.

Yes, they probably may be Canadian or British, but lets not forget all the other Nations of the Commonwealth that sent their children to war and who a remembered at the 11th hour of the 11th Month each year.

Lest we forget.

Good Golly, Miss Molly: Ivins Carries On Despite Setbacks

NEW YORK You’d expect Molly Ivins — syndicated columnist, best-selling author, and veteran eviscerator of the pompous and mendacious — to freely offer her opinions to a reporter, and she does, even suggesting this lede: “Molly Ivins Still Not Dead.”

The third recurrence of the breast cancer she has been battling since 1999 (and which recently claimed her good friend, former Texas Gov. Ann Richards) has left the 62-year-old Ivins with precarious balance, minimal hair, and no illusions about the redemptive quality of life-threatening illness. “I’d hoped to become a better person from confronting my own mortality,” she laughs. “But it hasn’t happened.”

lotsa boomers dead from aids aren’t around anymore to fight the fights for social justice and equality that began with gay lib.

just sayin’

i really don’t like the ageism implicit in the broadside against my generation. i will end this comment with the one i share with my younger gay brothers about the world we gay boomers (still alive) have left them:

“You’re welcome. And I’m sorry.”

Matt O.’s upstairs with the war-profiteering beat!

Excellent post.

I always like that they have Veterans’ Day on Armistice Day — a day of peace should be used to remember those who helped us achieve it.

I never understood why Vietnam Vets were treated so horribly. I still don’t– they were mere tools of a foreign policy run by men who treated the war like a game of Risk. Not unlike today.

My father was in ROTC during the final years of Vietnam on a rather progressive campus, too. He never referred to it, but my grandfather said it was pretty bad (my dad was following his footsteps, my grandfather having served in WWII and Korea). I’m lucky that my dad was always a proud democrat and taught me to question everything and to value a good education. He also taught me to love history, particularly American history. He would be disgusted seeing what this administration has done on every level, but particularly how they’ve treated the Constitution and the military.

As my father’s death was service-related, the GI bill helped me go to school, too (state college and a semester of a state law school). It wasn’t much, but it helped.

Veterans’ benefits are shameful today, cut every year by, I swear, polticians (mainly Republicans, it seems) who claim to love the military but clearly hate the troops. The men and women serving (and their families) should have every benefit while serving and when they get out.

You saw that comment about the war a sign of growth and healing? He came home wounded and mad and the Democrat party was on the wrong side. Sorry, that doesn’t cut it.
UptownNYChick @ 154

Jim Webb on his anger after Vietnam and being a Democrat.
it’s toward the end.
I was born after Vietnam,, so to me, it’s tough to see it in black and white. I do understand, however, that some people grow and heal.

De-lurking from Okinawa. Three days ago, I took a group of Marine SNCOs and Os on a Battle of Okinawa selected sites tour. The guest of honor for this staff ride was an 80-year old Marine vet from the Houston area named Jesse Harper. He was the Regt’s guest of honor for their Marine Birthday Ball and celebrations this past weekend. Jesse fought here on Okinawa during the Okinawan campaign, April-June 1945, in a rocket platoon in support of 6th Marine Division. He survived the campaign without injury, and after post-war occupation duty in China, went back home to Houston, where he used his G.I. Bill benefits to get his undergrad degree in Physical Ed, and became a high school football coach. Jesse was recalled again into the Marines during the Korean conflict, this time becoming a 60mm mortar squad leader in 3d Bn, 5th Marines. He is a Chosin Reservoir vet, and was wounded during the actions against the Chinese when they entered the war. He survived those injuries pretty well, although he said for years he would get hassles from the Texas medical types about his mandatory chest X-rays not being acceptable to prove he was TB-free, evidently from the big chunks of shrapnel still embedded in his shoulder blade area.

When we were driving to the various sites here on Okinawa, I asked Jesse about the details of his G.I. Bill-provided education. He confirmed again to me that the G.I. bill was his great opportunity to gain the educational credentials he needed to pursue his intentions to become a high school coach and later, a high school principal. It was a great opportunity to talk with an Okinawa Battle vet, and all the Marines were very grateful for their C.O.’s efforts to bring SSGT Jesse Harper (USMC-ret.) back out to see Okinawa and share his experiences with all of us. Jesse looks great for being 80, although he suffers to this day from the effects of the frostbite from his service with the ‘Frozen Chosin’ in Nov-Dec 1950.

Great post Steve – thanks very much for putting it out. And here’s my salute to all my fellow vets for their service. I am hoping that Jim Webb will lead a determined effort to ensure that all of our Iraq and Afghanistan vets receive every bit of support and assistance that is their due.

Semper Fidelis,
Dave in Okinawa

“If this country appreciated the people who served it, we would have a GI Bill which would give the current veterans of our wars the same benefits that the ‘greatest’ generation got.”

Too fucking right. My father *volunteered* for Vietnam at a time when many of the idiots pushing the Iraq war were running for the hills or getting 5 deferments. When politicians shake soldier’s hands in photo-ops while cutting their benefits with the other hand, there’s a problem.

Happy Veteran’s Day, dad. Rest in peace–you did your duty honorably.

It is sad to acknowledge that all of the veterans’ sacrifice in the last 50 years has been in behalf of wars of choice that should not have been fought, that gained the country nothing.