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Today is Veteran's Day, the day we remember the living. Or go shopping.
The Commonwealth combine their Memorial and Veteran's Day into Rememberance Day. So if you see people walking around with red flowers in their lapel, they're probably British or Canadian.
Americans like soldiers, but love to ignore veterans. I learned this as a child.
How?
My father is a former Marine and retired VA counselor. He spend 10 years working on the psych ward, where he once held down a man who slit his arm, spraying blood everywhere. This was in the days before AIDS, but it was ghastly.
Then, my childhood was filled with stories about how honorable discharges had secret codes placed on them, and how even with an honorable discharge, people couldn't get jobs. And then we would meet some of his clients during our Saturday food shopping. They were, of course, recovering heroin addicts and former combat infantrymen. The two kinda went together for a while.
But my favorite memory was triggered by something I saw recently.
When the Iranian hostages were released, they were given a tickertape parade down Broadway, and free lifetime passes to major league baseball games. (ESPN was doing a story on this.)
But that was the moment which galvanized the Vietnam Vet movement. I used to go to a model shop owned by vets. Pissed wasn't the word. I was about 17 at the time, but I remember they were enraged. All these people did was get captured, but they got a parade. You had Vietnam Vets who had been whipping boys for the media for years. People lied about their service because they would get incredibly hostile reactions.
I didn't know a single person who had dodged the draft well into my 30's. Every adult I knew old enough to be in Vietnam served in Vietnam.
But that parade led, in 1981, to a parade of Vietnam Vets, the first ever. They had begun to reclaim their legacy.
Now, things have turned to the point where Webb's Vietnam service became a sign of character, while the draft dodging of George Allen was used against him. Despite the mythology of the military being right wing, Democratic veterans from Wes Clark to VoteVets have made a massive difference. Avoiding Vietnam is no longer a benefit for candidates.
I don't think people realize the greatest social revolution in the US was not the Civil Rights Act, but the GI Bill. It broke the back of the class system in the US. Before WWII, college was for the rich and lucky. It wasn't totally classist, Norman Mailer, Eli Wallach, Jackie Robinson, Arthur Miller all went to college before the war, but for the most part, it was an exclusive club, and if you didn't get a scholarship or have money, you didn't go.
What the GI Bill did was establish the middle class. Men could go to college or buy a home with a low mortgage. Regardless of race or religion. What that did was change who ran America. Henry Hyde, Bob Dole, Ed Koch, Charlie Rangel, John Conyers, a generation of American leadership in every field opened up because of military service. George Plimpton started the Paris Review because he went to college in Europe on the GI Bill, Paul Newman went to Kenyon College, hundreds of thousands of people, many now prominent in our public life got their start via the GI Bill. Even Poppy Bush paid for Yale on the GI Bill.
One of the reasons for the widening economic gap in the US is because there is no way to transcend class. Newman was an enlisted man, a rear gunner on a Navy carrier plane. Yet, he became an actor because he went to college. At one point, most of Congress was filled with the beneficiaries of the GI Bill.
The reason I bring this up is that current benefits for soldiers are so much more meager. You have to kick in, and if you forget, you don't get any money. The benefits don't even pay for state college. The lure of college is such that most people enlist for that reason. But it is rarely delivered.
If this country appreciated the people who served it, we would have a GI Bill which would give the current veterans of our wars the same benefits that the "greatest" generation got.
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Jane!
Oh goodie - now I get to read the post!
Congratulations, Jane - your work here has done so much for so many.
Hope you’re having a wonderful week.
Veterans!
Fighting Dems!
Webb!
Great Post.
I’m rather glad my father, a WWII veteran and a rarity in politics - a politician who fought for civil rights and veterans’ rights - isn’t alive today to witness the treatment today’s veterans receive from a bunch of pantywaist rich boys with “other priorities.”
Also Jane, what a wonderful photograph. You and Christy seem to always find the perfect pic to illustrate a post.
I have this photograph posted on the front door of my gallery today. It is my one of my favorite photographs and despite looking at it hundreds of times it still sticks in my throat.
“Burst of Joy.” Slava Veder, 1974
Jane, when I think of veterans, I think of my father. He served in ROTC and went into the Navy when he graduated (still during the War). Served overseas, not in combat, but it was four years of his life. His younger brothers served and benefitted from the GI Bill.
I also think of my grandfather, who served in France in WWI. Didn’t see combat, but came close. He was active in the American Legion the rest of his life.
I would like to see the new Democratic majority make fairer treatment of veterans a high priority.
Not only that, but we need to make expanded treatment of PTSD and brain injuries a top priority. (Hell, it would probably be a good idea to make screening for PTSD mandatory, since the troops are trained to be tough guys and not ask for treatment.) Not only is it the right thing to do for vets, without it we’re all going to be paying for this war in yet another way for years to come.
When we were drafted in ‘65 we all (in my high school) answered the call. And I was gung-ho. By ‘67 I was disgusted. Some of my pals didn’t come back.
Seriously, my Pop had only one vacation in his life. And that was to Normandy for Uncle Sam. Here’s to you Pop, on this, another Vet. Day, w/out you. And here’s to you, Iraq Vets.
Thank you.
Good for your dad and his work - the VA psych inpatient wards sure seemed overwhelming to me, and I was staff. I so respect your dad’s capacity to serve there for all those years.
Being at the VA in the 80’s was disturbing in many ways. The tales of the secret discharge codes first sounded paranoid - until the staff confirmed it was government policy.
The first time I heard about the crappy health benefits given to those discharged in the 80’s, I thought there was a mistake. The vets I knew - my dad’s WWII generation - didn’t have restricted health coverage.
Nope - crappy veterans’ health benefits had become policy under Reagan.
Hope your wish for veterans becomes a plank in the Dems’ 100 hours program. The vets have already been kept waiting far too long.
Happy Veterans’ Day to my dad and Jane’s dad and all the vets.
well, Jane, this Vietnam Vet is going to continue honoring dead friends and comrades by cleaning the coffee pot, sharpening the skates and putting in 20 miles on the brand-new ice on the lake. Strider will follow for the first five miles or so, but then he’ll go back to shore, and lay by the fire, watching me skating by every five minutes or so.
My father served in WWII (non-combat) and post-war occupied Japan. hey Dad, are you FDL lurking today?
what was the deal with the secret codes? that link didnt work for me
Great post -teve. I think that you cannot emphasise too strongly what the GI bill and other wwii vets benefits did for the country and the middle class. My dad went to school on the GI bill and it was his ticket to the middle class. The long term implications of current policy are very socially destructive.
What is appalling is not only the abuse that veterans experience at the hands of an uncaring government, but their use as props for unpopular wars.
“Support our troops” is only a rallying cry when the real issue is “support the corrupt, cynical, conniving evildoers who are willing to send our kids to war”.
The soldiers, the veterans, their parents and spouses and kids are all pawns to bad governments, whether Nixon’s or Bush’s.
Young people almost never choose to go to pointless wars in which their indelible mark will be dead civilians, tortured innocents, raped children, homeless millions, and widespread terror. They want to defend their country, and they are lied to.
They need to be welcomed home with honor and support and jobs and healing. Otherwise their trauma suffuses everyone’s lives, and the rest of the country never sees the horror wrought by inept, cowardly and corrupt political decisions.
jane hamsher @
14
Jane, I’m a bit slow here…I thought you were the author (web page thinks so…)
Refresh your screens folks, this post was done by Steve Gilliard and has been very nicely expanded since it was first posted.
I didn’t dodge the draft. I simply checked “Yes” on the Whoopie Box : “Do you have homosexual tendencies ?”
“TENDENCIES ? Darling when I was in first grade I had tendencies. Now they’re — ”
Well you get the picture.
So the nice you officer at the desk (who I would have been quite interested in were the setting more conductive to . . .conversation) barked to the boys behind me “OK. let’s have some room here — back up!”
He then leaned up from his desk and asked in a hushed tone “Do you play the man or do you play the woman?”
As no such notion had ever occurred to me I said “Both.”
So he stamped my form and sent me off to the shrink.
However they were so backed up that day I never saw him. Another official simply gave me a “4F” and thus I NEVER WENT TO VIETNAM!!
But don’t think for a moment I didn’t do my bit for “Our Boys” on the home front. I did my level best to uh. . .entertain them all.
Especially sailors.
Oh I love a man in a uniform! Navy whites with half the buttons on the pants undone. “Here let me help you with the rest of those buttons,” I said to sailor who hand rambled into the Ramble.
Ah those were the days!
Tender Buttons indeed.
Presidents Truman, Carter, FDR and JFK. These were Men.
jane hamsher @ 14
That’s because the all-volunteer forces are poor and black. So we can throw them away when used. It’s not a leg up to the middle class life they deserve, but a way station in a life of lurching from dead end job to dead end joblessness.
I guess I’m angry.
If the Democrats push a veteran-friendly bill through the Congress, what is Bush going to do–veto it? (that would really put his policies in perspective). Or embrace it as his own? (taking credit where no credit is due).
I wonder if Congress has the power to end the multiple tours of duty that National Guard and stop-loss folks are having to endure.
Steve, Happy Veterans’ day to your dad - and I respect his work on the wards!
“lurching from dead end job to dead end joblessness” is preferable to lurching towards death.
OT: It’s been mentioned that we should work against Dem. Rep. William J.(Cold Cash) Jefferson of Lousiana. He has a runoff election coming up on December 9. Why don’t we help his Democratic opponent, Karen Carter for a couple of weeks?
The post is great - but seems to have a lot of repeated paragraphs.
A mod might want to see if the redundancies can be eliminated.
The two greatest things that helped America and the world heal after WWII?
The GI Bill of Right’s and the Marshall Plan. One helped keep and grow peace and prosperity at home, and the other grew them in Europe and Asia.
Too bad the putrid Bush Administraion has cut Veteran’s benefit’s and tried to suck the money out of everyone but the rich…
Evil. That’s all I can say. EVIL…
Bush, the anti-Marshall!
punaise @ 12
Mine was in occupied Germany; Weisbaden (SP?). Army Air Corps. (non-combat, but he enlisted Jan. ‘42 aged 29, ‘for the duration’. Mechanic.)
I recall he was in awe at the destruction our bombing had done to whole cities. He got to see it from the air.
That’s how he’d be lurking today. From on high.
——-
Wanted to post this link re: warranttless wiretaps. Not a good omen.AP story via YahooNews
Freedom fought for flushed.
A portion of Gilliard’s post is repeated, starting I believa with “Now, things have turned…”
I think they should start showing the coffins again and the faces of the deceased. That can do wonders for stopping a war.
Lets not give in until all vets are covered for what ever they need and the kids in public schools get civics and government classes and the opportunity to develop a craft if they are not intellectually inclined.
Lets keep on until there is a Marshall plan for Iraq and the idiots on tv no longer talk as if Iraq drove itself to the edge.
from today’s WaPo…
“Webb can also be expected to take the lead on veterans issues. He will be representing a state that has among the highest percentage of veterans in the nation.
He said he immediately wants to introduce bills to give tax breaks to soldiers and educational assistance to veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, similar to the World War II-era GI Bill.”
Another reason to be glad he won…it is about damn time.
Thank you, Steve, for honoring our veterans today with this eloquence. I heard on the teevee yesterday that there are thousands of homeless Vietnam veterans. There are 600 homeless Iraq War veterans already. How can this be? How can we not house, feed, medicate, succor and otherwise provide for those damaged when defending our freedoms?
My earliest memory of Veterans Day is my Dad arriving home from work mid-afternoon, very upset. He went directly to his workshop, door closed. Mom sat me down and explained that this was the day, every year, when he visited the still-bereft parents of his best friend from high school, who did not come home from the Pacific theatre.
Please thank a veteran today, or if the veteran is departed, please thank a veteran’s family.
Serving in the military during the Viet Nam war should be honored. Not serving and being against that war is not dishonorable. Avoiding service by being placed in a safe National Guard unit because of a well connected father and then not even completing that minimal service deserves scorn.
I don’t think it’s as simple as that. Most liberals seem to treat military service like this: Serving in the military is honorable. That said, there’s no automatic pass just for serving.
BUT: if you avoided serving, you’d better not use members of the military to push your own agenda, up to and including using them up to push your agenda. Bush v. Kerry made military service an issue because Bush started a bad and completely optional war, and treated those in the service like crap, all while he and Cheney avoided any hint of danger in the Vietnam era.
(And for the trolls out there, I’ll state the obvious: National Guard service is honorable, but the National Guard in the Vietnam era was a popular way for the privileged to keep their kids safe and out of danger.)
Clinton got a pass on his avoidance of Vietnam (for the most part) because he treated the military with respect throughout his administration. The current batch of warhawks doesn’t.
Military service is only an issue against someone when the hypocrisy becomes obvious, not when someone did or didn’t serve.
dipper @ 29
Yes, what happened to the “Fallen Hero” segments on the nightly network newcasts?
Steve..excellent post..My experience, working with vets in VA hospitals and with relatives who are vets, it that the “shooters” rarely talk about what “it” was like. Again, in my experience, these vets are the least likely to beat the war drums or to be the go get’m VFW types. The book “Stolen Valor”, with all of its flaws, showed me how vets are exploited.
Questions raised by Neo Cons about Clinton’s committment of troops to Bosnia.
(Note Zero American KIA in Bosnian action)
“You can support the troops but not the president.”
–Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)
“Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years.”
–Joe Scarborough (R-FL)
“Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?”
–Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99
“[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy.
He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost.
And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy.”
–Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)
“American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery.
Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy.”
–Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)
“If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.”
–Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush
“I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . I didn’t think we had done enough in the diplomatic area.”
–Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)
“I cannot support a failed foreign policy.
History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace.
This administration is just learning that lesson right now.
The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions.
A month later, these questions are still unanswered.
There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory.
There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program.
There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military.
There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake.
There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today”
–Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)
Back in 1999 when Bush was then-governor of Texas and running for President, he said the following 17 days into the bombing of Kosovo:
“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is.” - George W. Bush - Houston Chronicle April 9, 1999
–Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)
Before they went mad with power.
Forty one years ago this week (1965), I turned 17 years old and my dad took me to my local Air National Guard base to get on the waiting list. My sister happened to be employed at my local Selective Service board. Two years later, I was invited to join the MdANG and my sister told me they were pulling folders for induction from the file drawer that contained my file.
So despite going on the waiting list at the earliest opportunity, I came within a whisker of being drafted into the US Army. This was before the days of the draft lottery numbers.
After I returned from basic training and tech school, I discovered that many if not most of my fellow airmen had gotten into the ANG without a two year wait because their parents had political connections. Most had used up their student deferrments or had flunked out of college. I recall that one airman reportedly leapfrogged the waiting list and got into the ANG in the two week window after receiving his induction notice.
The main mission of the ANG seemed to be to keep a segment of young Marylanders in short haircuts. Most of the time during drills we did busy work or watched training film (I still have my projectionists license LOL).
But I’ve never been able to get over the injustice of how the sons of the politically well connected (See G.W. Bush, Dan Quayle, and others) were able to avoid Vietnam service.
Ya think W’ll swap out Bolton for BigFoot Hughes, who’s done so well with the Muslim hearts’n'minds?
windje @ 37
I’ve seen that list of quotes a few times before, and I never get tired of reading it. It gets even better when you look at where some of the speakers are now.
David Ehrenstein @
23
and brussel sprouts are better than a shit sandwich
“If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.”
–Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush
They do have a way with words.
windje@37 If videos of those comments were available, what a commercial it would have made.
I spent the last half of my tour in Nam in the 107th Signal Company, Rhode Island National Guard. The Guard was callled up in the wake iof the King assassination and 8 units were sent to Vietnam. Obvioulsy this was a drop in the bucket and the Guard and Reserves were just another part of a bigger picture of the priveldged avoiding the war.
But in doing this, the film overlooks the darkest aspects of his reign as a Vietnam War mastermind, including his shameful brainchild, Project 100,000. By 1966, President Johnson was fearful that calling up the reserves or abolishing student deferments would further inflame war protesters and signal all-out war. And so, even after McNamara began privately declaring the war was unwinnable, the defense secretary devised Project 100,000.
Under his direction, an alternative army was systematically recruited from the ranks of those who had previously been rejected for failing to meet the armed services’ physical and mental requirements. Recruiters swept through urban ghettos and Southern rural back roads, even taking at least one youth with an I.Q. of 62. In all, 354,000 men were rolled up by Project 100,000. Touted as a Great Society program that would provide remedial education and an escape from poverty, the recruitment program offered a one-way ticket to Vietnam, where “the Moron Corps,” as they were pathetically nicknamed by other soldiers, entered combat in disproportionate numbers. Although Johnson was a vociferous civil rights advocate, the program took a heavy toll on young blacks. A 1970 Defense Department study disclosed that 41 percent of Project 100,000 recruits were black, compared with 12 percent in the armed forces as a whole. What’s more, 40 percent of Project 100,000 recruits were trained for combat, compared with 25 percent for the services generally.
Since “Path to War” makes much of Johnson’s civil rights concerns, the filmmakers had a perfect place to introduce the awful irony of Project 100,000 — the scene where LBJ pins a Purple Heart on a wounded black soldier. Unfortunately, few today recall this particularly shameful chapter from the war. Even two decades ago, accounts of Project 100,000 in my book “Long Time Passing: Vietnam and the Haunted Generation” were met with disbelief — even by many who had lived through the era. Soldiers remembered it, however. As Herb DeBose, a former black first lieutenant who was director of a New York City employment program for veterans, said at that time, “I think McNamara should be shot. I saw him when he resigned from the World Bank, crying about the poor children of the world. But if he did not cry at all for any of those men he took in under Project 100,000, then he really doesn’t know what crying is all about. Many weren’t even on a 5th-grade level.”
Thanks Steve, excellent post and very relevant on Vets Day. Both my father and brother were Marines, and my wife’s grandfather was a double amputee from the Battle of the Bulge.
I think a real GI Bill would be an awesome thank you to those who have sacrificed for this disasterous war.
windje, I’ve seen each and every one of those hypocritical quotes before. (But keep on printing them!)
The great thing about the authors of those quotes is that they have been repudiated beyond question. They have all been severely limited in power or banished from the Halls completely. You can only get away with fooling the people for so long…
Bring our vets home and take care of them when they get here for gawdsakes!
I had a dear one serve in the first Gulf War and he was hurt during the war; he got precious little and next to nothing from his Government when he came home, including healthcare or any help for his promised education.
Proud to serve, still.
I used to work in the VA– it is heartbreaking to see the victims of war– both the old and the young and realize that what has happened to Bush’s and Cheney’s and Rumsfeld’s “all volunteer army” is disgraceful beyond belief.
Jim Webb and so many understand this.
Thank you sirs and ladies.
rat bastahd @ 46
My parents were liberated from the Nazis in 1945, and I owe the vets of this country a debt of gratitude I can never ever come close to repaying.
Thanks for the great post Steve…..
I’m a navy brat…I served in the Air Force…I knew many, many Viet Nam vets. I never knew one who was spat upon but I knew many who came back disillusioned and angry. And I know our vets now are getting a raw, raw deal….
great post..thanks for reminding us on the Veteran’s Day
hizzhoner….
Senator-elect James Webb included in his campaign a call for a new Veterans’ Bill, similar to the one after WWII.
I personally pledge to work to get returning vets their mental health care. We sent them over there to hell, we owe it to them to care for them upon their return.
By the way some older vets are developing screaming nightmares and other PTSD symptoms–Vietnam, Korea, even guys from WWII. Norske help me ought here, you know about this.
And not just mental health; physical health. And not to need food stamps–a disgrace! And respect. And no more stop-loss.
My father was in WWII, Navy. Both grandfathers were in WWI, Grandpa Mc got shot at in France. Other ancestors were in the Civil War, 1812, and Revolution. This used to be a rite of passage for manhood. Highly recommend Webb’s book Born Fighting, which talks about the military in America.
We count on them to be there, but if we continue to abuse and neglect them and send them into vanity wars, they might change their minds about participating.
In the early 70’s, the GI Bill gave me enough money to pay for law school, and with the money I saved while I was in the Army and a minor part-time job, I graduated debt-free. My parent’s generation, the WWII crowd, knew that it was worth it to put money into the future of their children.
My generation, the baby boomers, ate the seed corn. We have put nothing into the future. We ate the infrastructure our parents laid down, we let the schools rust, we let our kids graduate with huge debt from college and professional schools, and then we whine about taxes. And, we starve our teachers and mistreat our veterans. Then we watched without interest while the greedheads sucked the money out of the economy. This is the Reagan generation in action.
It is going to take a lot more than one election to change this selfish attitude, but I have a lot of hope that people can be retaught the lessons our parents learned from their parents.
egregious says: We count on them to be there, but if we continue to abuse and neglect them and send them into vanity wars, they might change their minds about participating.
What we have here is economic conscription, imo. As long as we have a large pool of urban & rural poor, the middle class won’t have to worry about their well-scrubbed little ones being conscripted. They assuage their guilt by sticking magnets on their gas-guzzlers.
Steve,
The link you are referring to has an error (extra ‘.’ at the end of the link).
I believe the correct link is:
http://www.dallassecurity.com/.....Nalpha.doc
Yea, that was after they finally adjusted it so you could actually half-way survive on the GI Bill. When I came home in 69 I got almost the same dollar amount my dad got after WWII. I had to take out loans to be able to afford the dorm (after 3years in the Army, a year in Korea and 10 months in the Nam, I couldn’t live off campus at Illinois becuase I was only 19.
masaccio @ 51
I did not know there were so many veterans on the ‘lake.
Thank you, patriots, for your service to our Republic.
masaccio @ 51
Your parent’s generation probably had memories of the Great Depression as well, or certainly had heard directly from their parents about how bad it was.
Nice post Masaccio. The baby boomers have totally ignored our national infrastructure, to all of our detriment. From education to health care to the environment to transportation, these fuckers have run us into the wall.
My family is right on the border of working and middle class. I was the first male (the oldest of my generation) who went to college instead of going into the military (and so far the only person to graduate, not to mention get a post-graduate degree). College was always the plan for me; I’d considered going to the Naval Academy, and later reconsidered ROTC, but I chose not too and I’ve always been incredibly grateful to the rest of my family that I had that option.
I don’t know how or if any of my family benefited from the GI Bill — my grandfather served in WWII, so he may have gotten a mortgage or other more obscure benefits, but none in my mother’s generation (Vietnam) did as far as I know. My best friend in high school joined the Army to get college money, and ended up getting wounded on the DMZ in Korea — then when he got out and tried to go to a prestigious art school, the Army jerked him around on the payments so bad that he was forced to drop out after a year and a half.
Twisted Martini @ 57
So much for the love generation & the Age of Aquarius.
My friends went to Korea. I worked in the defence industry. I like the spell check. Nice format.
Dreams of Children
Bodies too thin, at the check point.
Papaya on a stick or peanuts their fare.
Some have no home or sign of a parent.
They sell their wares and beg for handouts.
Their eyes hurt and crush your bones.
Some grown men make jokes and lash out.
The men of valor can’t stand the pain.
They throw C-ration cans to hurt and maim.
Not one day older, slant eyed kids for years.
They are at the road, waiting for me to come back.
Living on the street is their war game.
Maimed by the war, forgotten in the pain.
Their eyes do not carry any of their names.
The shame of heroes are these eyes in my heart.
M.Mercer
Fortunate Son by John Fogerty
Some folks are born
made to wave the flag,
Ooh, they’re red, whit and blue.
And when the band plays “Hail to the chief”,
they point the cannon right at you.
It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no senator’s son.
It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no fortunate one.
Some folks are born
silver spoon in hand,
Lord don’t they help themselves.
But when the tax man comes to the door,
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale.
It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no millionaire’s son.
It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no fortunate one.
Some folks inherit
star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war.
And when you ask them,
“How much should we give?”
They only answer “More! More! More!”
It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no military son.
It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no fortunate one.
It ain’t me,
it ain’t me.
I ain’t no Fortunate Son.
With regard to the attitude some of us had about Vietnam veterans, my apology is over at my humble blog.
It is my great joy that we are working WITH veterans this time, including some terrific people here at the lake.
The baby boomers have totally ignored our national infrastructure
Huh? I’m sure you meant Republican baby boomers, right?
PeteCO @ 52
As the middle class parent of a moderately well-scrubbed, soon-to-be draft age son, I have no objection to a national service program of which military service is one option among many.
(I do not however, drive an SUV or sport any magnets.)
My grandfather was President of the American Legion for our city. When I was young it was great watching them march every Memorial Day from the town center to the cemetery. Of course in those days I didn’t really understand the cemetery part.
He must have suffered to see me openly oppose the Vietnam War. But he never said anything to me. We have to try to do what we think is right in each generation.
I’m going to write this before I read your apology. I don’t think anybody owes anybody and apology. Everyone made mistakes. The people I knew in the anti-war movement when I cam home were anything but anti-veteran or antisoldier for that matter. People wanted the senseless killing stopped. Does than mean the NVA and VC were not vicious killers? No. Does that mean that lots of individual Americans did lots of positive things for the Vietnamese. No. But in sum total the war was an abomination and the longer it went on the more polarized we became the crazier shit got. Don’t look back too much, they might be gainin’ on ya!
egregious @ 62
egregious,
‘they might change their minds about participating.’
I know you didn’t intend it to sound the way it did, but everyone, remember, “they” are we.
“They” don’t come from somewhere else. “They” are part of us. “They” ARE us! They are we, and we are them.
That’s America’s Volunteer Army. And we need to do everything possible to help them. I want to see a new GI BIll of Right’s for every generation of people who serve or have served.
I didn’t. I missed being drafted into ‘Nam. I’m too old now. And too cowardly, if I were young enough, to be honest…
But, I admire and honor those who served. And I want our government to honor them too.
George only gives lip service and uses the soldiers as props.
punaise @ 64
We stopped progress on the ERA, that’s Equal Rights Amendment for women, because we thought it would lead to expanding the draft to women. People on the right didn’t want women in the military, and people on the left didn’t want an expanded pool of cannon fodder. Otherwise I think the EPA would have become a Constitutional Amendment.
There were some issues with protecting pregnant women who were working, but the draft was the main objection imho.
OFT:
Please suggest questions for Timmeh to ask OldTimer McCain and LIEberman tomorrow on Meet the Press!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6913788/
Cozumel @ 63
Not necessarily. Those selfish baby boomers are the same ones who like Rahm and Billary and who continue to hamstring the progressive movement.
I’m skipping down here to the bottom. As of two and a half years ago, the Bush administration was busy reducing the number of VA hospitals specializing in the treatment of PTSD. No need for it anymore, I guess. Everything being peachy keen and all that.
Oh, and off topic, the All Blacks just smashed France in rugby in Lyons….40 to 3. Not a single try for the supposedly second-ranked team in the world. (as this sports ignorant person understands it. But even a sports ignoramus like myself gets the power of the haka and can enjoy the beauty of Daniel Carter.)
And Georgia whipped Auburn’s ass!
NZ Expat @ 71
c u n d gulag at 67, point taken, I said “they” because at the time I would have been eligible for military service, it was heavily male. As a female, this was an unlikely career choice.
massacio 51 — you’ve said a mouthful and a half.
When you talk about seed corn, you are talking about investment.
The GI Bill was one of many investments we made into America.
Every time I’ve heard one of these moronic talking heads in this administration talk about an “ownership society”, I want to scream. The only persons who own anything under their schema are themselves — they own 90% of Americans below them, the people who serve in their military, the people who build their roads, the people who care for and teach their children. The “owner class” don’t want to invest in these people; they simply want to own them.
Why is it this “owner class” that also holds the largest amount of investable assets don’t understand this fundamental rule: there are no dividends without an investment. They want something out of nothing.
Not going to happen.
I think about the hassles my stepson has had with the VA and the Montgomery Bill since he served in Iraq 2003-2004; he’d done nothing to deserve these hassles, has more than paid his dues, did as he was told and came back with PTSD for his troubles. What’s his yield on his investment of time and commitment? More hassle?
And what exactly are the American people going to get out this lack of investment? Another law-abiding, tax-paying, well-educated citizen, or a messed-up, stressed-out problem case moving from one crappy job to another for lack of education?
Of course we won’t let this happen to him. But there are so many other vets like him who do not have a family safety net. They will bring us a yield we deserve for failing to invest in them.
And Michigan is whupping on the Hoosiers. The Blue is putting it to Big Red. Again.
Twisted, I know where I’ll be next Sat.!!!
Let’s see if we can turn Ohio blue again!
A friend of a friend used the GI BIll after he got back from ‘Nam. Multiple degrees later - he figured they owed him - he’s a college professor, teaching both philosophy and government (and things like karate on the side).
I’m thinking this is the tip of the iceberg. There was a staff sergeant in Iraq on the tube who said, “I’ve lost good people here, if we leave before we complete the mission what did they die for?” When this shit falls apart we are going to have another generation of vets who feel like suckers for their sacrifice.
Rayne @ 74
Twisted Martini @ 70
I guess I read your post wrong and you didn’t really take out an entire generation ; ) Of which I’m pretty sure make up the bulk of FDL ; )
Twisted Martini @
57
Don’t trust anyone over 40 and under 60…?
Yes, lot’s of us took advantage of the opportunities that the bill afforded. The problem is that those who could have most benefited (in terms of race and class) were the least likely to do so.
P J Evans @ 78
Twisted Martini @
57
I don’t entirely agree with that assumption. This neglect began in the Reagan administration. People under 35 assume that it’s been going on forever, but it hasn’t. This is a Republican tendency, the tendency to neglect in favor of the wealthy, and it always has been. It’s not been solely directed at social spending, but government spending of any kind which benefits society as a whole, and that attitude of indifference to the commons went into overdrive from the moment Reagan took office.
Wanna blame the boomers? Blame the Republican boomers.
I am concerned about the legislation that was just passed and signed which nationalized the National Guard. Governors don’t have ultimate control over the anymore? How did that happen?
I think it was in the same bill that expanded powers of the president to declare martial law. Yay us.
And needless to say I am horrified that our Guard are being sent to Iraq two, three, four times when what they VOLUNTEERED to do was DEFEND OUR COUNTRY. HERE.
Probably a reaction to the stupidity of Katrina.
egregious @ 84
I think Webb and others Dems could make a very smart move by drafting legislation ELIMINATING the “tax cuts for the top 1%” that Bush championed, and linking that new income to veterans’ benefits. [Maybe throw some $$$ to Head Start or housing; I don’t know the magnitude of the $$$ that would result.]
As someone said above, what’s Bush gonna do — veto the bill?
I think it’s VERY important, however, to link the granting of veterans’ benefits to an income source. Otherwise they’ll just take it out of health care, Stafford loans, etc.
As I dimly recall, tax legislation needs to originate in the House, but isn’t Rangel going to be Chair of Ways & Means?
The boomers who have been in power since 1980 have predominantly been Thugs. But the triangulators haven’t helped us in the long term.
Our committment to Blue America and Act Blue, as well as Democracy bonds, etc show that we Progressives are willing to pay any price, bear any burden.
Raven — they already know the answer to the question, those that haven’t drunk the Kool-Aid.
They know they were sent on a fool’s errand.
But our response to them is what counts. My stepson knows our intent in encouraging him to join the service was driven by completely different motivators; we wanted him to acquire some maturity and personal discipline, some space from problematic family members, see other parts of the world so he could appreciate the U.S. from a more educated perspective, serve his country with honor.
He did that. And that’s enough. So did all the other troops who’ve served; they did what they were asked on behalf of their country, and that’s enough. It has to be, as painful and lacking as that seems to be for the price that so many have paid and will pay.
It’s the boomer’s fault? Sweeping generalizations anyone? Incredibly insulting and also just downright silly.
Didn’t we have a whole host of hippie-turned-capitalist “trickle-downers”?
“Me me me” seems to have created an unprecedented uber-rich class with a gaping hole between them and everyone else.
Their utter lack of concern for anyone beneath them, resources they burn, or even an ounce of respect for the “system” (the infrastructure and stability built by their forebearers) that allowed them to create their little empires is what we all must now fight to correct.