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	<title>Comments on: Junior And His &#8220;Get Me Baker&#8221; Moment</title>
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		<title>By: Rose Elvern</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-378539</link>
		<dc:creator>Rose Elvern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2006 05:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-378539</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Gates Has History of Manipulating Intelligence&lt;br /&gt;
    By Jason Leopold&lt;br /&gt;
    t r u t h o u t &#124; &lt;a&gt;Reporthttp://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/110806R.shtm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/11/08/gates-will-inherit-a-cow_n_33703.html&quot;&gt;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....33703.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes, pay attention, and read up:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.antiwar.com/mcgovern/?articleid=5732…&quot;&gt;http://www.antiwar.com/mcgover.....732…&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;McGovern recounts how, while in the CIA “Gates had shaped intelligence analysis to suit his masters and his career.”&lt;br /&gt;
History doesn’t just repeat itself; it repeats itself with the same exact people.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=8700&amp;postdays=0&amp;postorder=asc&amp;start=30&amp;sid=2cb211467dfb2c89108c2e657566c7be&quot;&gt;http://rigorousintuition.ca/bo.....657566c7be&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is an insurgency, at least there is such a potent insurgency, because key members of the US command (mainly operating out of the White House) wanted one. The army was disbanded without pay but pretty much allowed to take their weapons with them. Many if not nearly all of the vast stockpiles of munitions around the country were not secured. Reconstruction jobs and funds went almost entirely to foreigners, not to the unemployed Iraqis. Al Sadr was persecuted but allowed to remain free and mobilize his own militia. The list goes on.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gates Has History of Manipulating Intelligence<br />
    By Jason Leopold<br />
    t r u t h o u t | <a>Reporthttp://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/110806R.shtm</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/11/08/gates-will-inherit-a-cow_n_33703.html">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/&#8230;..33703.html</a></p>
<p>Yes, pay attention, and read up:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.antiwar.com/mcgovern/?articleid=5732…">http://www.antiwar.com/mcgover&#8230;..732…</a></p>
<p>McGovern recounts how, while in the CIA “Gates had shaped intelligence analysis to suit his masters and his career.”<br />
History doesn’t just repeat itself; it repeats itself with the same exact people.</p>
<p><a href="http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=8700&amp;postdays=0&amp;postorder=asc&amp;start=30&amp;sid=2cb211467dfb2c89108c2e657566c7be">http://rigorousintuition.ca/bo&#8230;..657566c7be</a></p>
<p>There is an insurgency, at least there is such a potent insurgency, because key members of the US command (mainly operating out of the White House) wanted one. The army was disbanded without pay but pretty much allowed to take their weapons with them. Many if not nearly all of the vast stockpiles of munitions around the country were not secured. Reconstruction jobs and funds went almost entirely to foreigners, not to the unemployed Iraqis. Al Sadr was persecuted but allowed to remain free and mobilize his own militia. The list goes on.</p>
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		<title>By: Rose Elvern</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-378524</link>
		<dc:creator>Rose Elvern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2006 05:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-378524</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Gen. Odom Points to Impeachment&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Fri Sep 29, 2006 &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;      The longer the war goes on, Odom stressed, the more it benefits al Qaeda and Iran.snip=Rep. Hinchey asked Odom “How do we get out?” Odom’s reply came without a pause: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Well, the Constitution gives the House the right to impeach.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gen. Odom Points to Impeachment</p>
<p>Fri Sep 29, 2006 </p>
<p>      The longer the war goes on, Odom stressed, the more it benefits al Qaeda and Iran.snip=Rep. Hinchey asked Odom “How do we get out?” Odom’s reply came without a pause: </p>
<p>“Well, the Constitution gives the House the right to impeach.”</p>
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		<title>By: Rose Elvern</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-378513</link>
		<dc:creator>Rose Elvern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2006 05:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-378513</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;General Pace in the article on Huffpo looks so very sad and in the photo at Wash. Post looks like he had been crying. I remember when he stood up to rumsfeld in a press conferance and stated that any soldier witness torture had an obligation to stop it then and there.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Pace now must deal with the equally demented iran contra criminal Gates. It will take the US citizens to stop the continuation of the genocide in iraq. gates was involved in the death squads and the whole iran-contra mass murder and torture.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Please leave a message on Huffpo supporting the end of the war on Iraq.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>General Pace in the article on Huffpo looks so very sad and in the photo at Wash. Post looks like he had been crying. I remember when he stood up to rumsfeld in a press conferance and stated that any soldier witness torture had an obligation to stop it then and there.</p>
<p>Pace now must deal with the equally demented iran contra criminal Gates. It will take the US citizens to stop the continuation of the genocide in iraq. gates was involved in the death squads and the whole iran-contra mass murder and torture.</p>
<p>Please leave a message on Huffpo supporting the end of the war on Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: Boudica</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-378294</link>
		<dc:creator>Boudica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2006 02:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-378294</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;When Bill Clinton ran for  President, he said, referring to Hillary, vote for me and get two for the price of one. Boy that sure caused an uproar and outrage. Now, George W. Bush failed to tell the country that a vote for him would get us his father and his entire staff.  I’m not hearing a peep about this from those who criticized Clinton.  Guess the MSM is totally oblivious to the  double Presidency in DC,  or maybe they realize, as we all do, that with GW Bush, it really does “take a village”.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Bill Clinton ran for  President, he said, referring to Hillary, vote for me and get two for the price of one. Boy that sure caused an uproar and outrage. Now, George W. Bush failed to tell the country that a vote for him would get us his father and his entire staff.  I’m not hearing a peep about this from those who criticized Clinton.  Guess the MSM is totally oblivious to the  double Presidency in DC,  or maybe they realize, as we all do, that with GW Bush, it really does “take a village”.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Keenan</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-378225</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Keenan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2006 02:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-378225</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;WADR, &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory&quot;&gt;“Pyrrhic”&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WADR, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory">“Pyrrhic”</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cugel</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-378166</link>
		<dc:creator>Cugel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2006 01:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-378166</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-377627&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;wordyeti @&lt;br /&gt;
                               6              &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The Bushies, even the old guard, are going to find this a far, far harder task than it might seem. I think that the real tipping point, if you will, was the articles in the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Times, all calling for Rumsfeld’s head.  All timed to come out the Monday before the elections.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Basically, it’s a bare-knuckle shot from the military services, saying to the Bush administration “We’ve had all we can stand, and we can’t stand no more.”  . . . .&lt;br /&gt;
So with a simmering revolt by the one sacred totem of the wingnuts (the Brave Boys In Uniform), the Bushies, whose power rests solely upon their ability to manipulate such iconic symbols, are going to have to perform the Republican version of the Six Ritual Prostrations before the military starts smiling at them in the hallways again…&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is entirely correct, but it’s actually worse than you state. The revolt in the senior brass was reaching the point where in about 1/2 the countries of the world there would be a coup plot! Here in the U.S. you could expect a LOT more leaking stories from senior pentagon sources designed to make Bush &amp; Rumsfeld look bad and a lot more former generals going on TV telling every dirty little inside secret. They had to do something to stop the bleeding.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It doesn’t appear that Bush is making this move because of the election at all. This was planned for weeks if not longer. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s interesting that they didn’t announce it before the election. But, Jane, canning Rumsfeld cuts both ways! &lt;b&gt;True, it would have convinced a lot of independents and some Democrats that Bush was serious about “changing course” in Iraq and strengthened the Republicans, but it would also have totally demoralized and depressed their base! &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Remember that their entire campaign was to toss more and more red-meat to the base, that even at the 11th hour Bush was storming the country talking about “cut and run”, etc. And the only people who were listening (sympathetically anyway) to him was the Reich-wing Republican base. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They never thought they were going to lose, even at the last minute, they couldn’t really believe that they couldn’t overcome anything with their 72 hour project, etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But firing Rumsfeld would be admitting “I screwed up and we have to change course.” That might seem like the most natural thing to us, but the right-wing never admitted anything was wrong in Iraq! Remember that the “librul media” were deliberately not reporting all the “good news” from there in an effort to make Bush look bad? And then Bush announces “we’re changing course?” That would totally deflate them right as they are about to storm the polls for Bush! &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They couldn’t risk the effect it would have on the GOP GOTV volunteers and hard-core base.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-377627"><em>wordyeti @<br />
                               6              </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The Bushies, even the old guard, are going to find this a far, far harder task than it might seem. I think that the real tipping point, if you will, was the articles in the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Times, all calling for Rumsfeld’s head.  All timed to come out the Monday before the elections.   </p>
<p>Basically, it’s a bare-knuckle shot from the military services, saying to the Bush administration “We’ve had all we can stand, and we can’t stand no more.”  . . . .<br />
So with a simmering revolt by the one sacred totem of the wingnuts (the Brave Boys In Uniform), the Bushies, whose power rests solely upon their ability to manipulate such iconic symbols, are going to have to perform the Republican version of the Six Ritual Prostrations before the military starts smiling at them in the hallways again…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is entirely correct, but it’s actually worse than you state. The revolt in the senior brass was reaching the point where in about 1/2 the countries of the world there would be a coup plot! Here in the U.S. you could expect a LOT more leaking stories from senior pentagon sources designed to make Bush &amp; Rumsfeld look bad and a lot more former generals going on TV telling every dirty little inside secret. They had to do something to stop the bleeding.</p>
<p>It doesn’t appear that Bush is making this move because of the election at all. This was planned for weeks if not longer. </p>
<p>It’s interesting that they didn’t announce it before the election. But, Jane, canning Rumsfeld cuts both ways! <b>True, it would have convinced a lot of independents and some Democrats that Bush was serious about “changing course” in Iraq and strengthened the Republicans, but it would also have totally demoralized and depressed their base! </b></p>
<p>Remember that their entire campaign was to toss more and more red-meat to the base, that even at the 11th hour Bush was storming the country talking about “cut and run”, etc. And the only people who were listening (sympathetically anyway) to him was the Reich-wing Republican base. </p>
<p>They never thought they were going to lose, even at the last minute, they couldn’t really believe that they couldn’t overcome anything with their 72 hour project, etc.</p>
<p>But firing Rumsfeld would be admitting “I screwed up and we have to change course.” That might seem like the most natural thing to us, but the right-wing never admitted anything was wrong in Iraq! Remember that the “librul media” were deliberately not reporting all the “good news” from there in an effort to make Bush look bad? And then Bush announces “we’re changing course?” That would totally deflate them right as they are about to storm the polls for Bush! </p>
<p>They couldn’t risk the effect it would have on the GOP GOTV volunteers and hard-core base.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig Johnson</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-377982</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2006 00:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-377982</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;Firing Rummy Kills the Spotlight&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
I can not believe how much has been written about the firing of Rumsfeld without stating the obvious.&lt;br /&gt;
George W. and Donald R are tied at the hip for every lie, miscalculation and act of ineptitude/incompetence.&lt;br /&gt;
Every question which would have been thrown at Rummy; every accusation and every ounce of scorn would have been metaphorically posed to a physically present GW in front of Biden, Hilary, Murtha, Rangel, Pelosi, Reid et al.&lt;br /&gt;
He fired himself when he fired the team and then withdrew to his lair. That is it. Period.&lt;br /&gt;
cognitorex blogspot&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Firing Rummy Kills the Spotlight</b><br />
I can not believe how much has been written about the firing of Rumsfeld without stating the obvious.<br />
George W. and Donald R are tied at the hip for every lie, miscalculation and act of ineptitude/incompetence.<br />
Every question which would have been thrown at Rummy; every accusation and every ounce of scorn would have been metaphorically posed to a physically present GW in front of Biden, Hilary, Murtha, Rangel, Pelosi, Reid et al.<br />
He fired himself when he fired the team and then withdrew to his lair. That is it. Period.<br />
cognitorex blogspot</p>
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		<title>By: Hayduke</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-377921</link>
		<dc:creator>Hayduke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Nov 2006 23:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-377921</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;XYZ.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;THANKS for the Carville/Dean links. Snark attack sent.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>XYZ.</p>
<p>THANKS for the Carville/Dean links. Snark attack sent.</p>
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		<title>By: Evil Parallel Universe</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-377888</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Parallel Universe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Nov 2006 23:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-377888</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You give too much credence to the power of the Base. They’ve always been a small number of the population and they are only powerful (in terms of electing people) if the remainder of the nation either believes the bullshit, doesn’t go out to vote, or both. That didn’t happen this election, and thanks to TEAM LOSER and their non-centrist policies, and INABILITY to ever change, isn’t going to happen in 2008.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ll repeat myself, beyond the base, you can only sell shit if people don’t know it’s shit; and now enough people do, with more to follow.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;By buying into the idea there is this all powerful base that TEAM LOSER has to whistle for and they come running and save the day, you empower at least 2 myths upon which TEAM LOSER has relied: 1. That the base is bigger and more powerful than it is (i.e., the base isn’t just wingnuts and survivalists, but soccormoms, etc.); and 2. That the extremist conservative issues which motivate “the base” are really mainstream issues.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Either way, you’re making your job needlessly harder.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And, going back to Swopa’s post yesterday, the above is why trying to come up with a “progressive” agenda to counter the “bases” (conservative) agenda, is playing the game the wrong way. Progressive isn’t a counterbalance to the extreme conservatism of the “base,” which extreme conservatism is out of touch with the beliefs (and as we see the political preferences) of a majority (and a to be growing majority) of voters. You are the “middles,” bring the goal posts back into alignment; don’t accept their political theories. Otherwise, you give them hope where they should have none.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You give too much credence to the power of the Base. They’ve always been a small number of the population and they are only powerful (in terms of electing people) if the remainder of the nation either believes the bullshit, doesn’t go out to vote, or both. That didn’t happen this election, and thanks to TEAM LOSER and their non-centrist policies, and INABILITY to ever change, isn’t going to happen in 2008.</p>
<p>I’ll repeat myself, beyond the base, you can only sell shit if people don’t know it’s shit; and now enough people do, with more to follow.</p>
<p>By buying into the idea there is this all powerful base that TEAM LOSER has to whistle for and they come running and save the day, you empower at least 2 myths upon which TEAM LOSER has relied: 1. That the base is bigger and more powerful than it is (i.e., the base isn’t just wingnuts and survivalists, but soccormoms, etc.); and 2. That the extremist conservative issues which motivate “the base” are really mainstream issues.</p>
<p>Either way, you’re making your job needlessly harder.</p>
<p>And, going back to Swopa’s post yesterday, the above is why trying to come up with a “progressive” agenda to counter the “bases” (conservative) agenda, is playing the game the wrong way. Progressive isn’t a counterbalance to the extreme conservatism of the “base,” which extreme conservatism is out of touch with the beliefs (and as we see the political preferences) of a majority (and a to be growing majority) of voters. You are the “middles,” bring the goal posts back into alignment; don’t accept their political theories. Otherwise, you give them hope where they should have none.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnSwifty</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-377825</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnSwifty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Nov 2006 22:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/11/10/junior-has-a-get-me-baker-moment/#comment-377825</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-377779&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;blue e @ 118 &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Jinny @77 - thanks, that actually helps&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;JohnSwifty @98 - Kristol is on Charlie Rose tonight. Gods know why.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Charlie will ask, perhaps, ONE penetrating question.  Here’s a an FDL challeng: what will it be?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m going to go with, “Mr. Kristol (fawning and shuffling of paper) in the past you have expressed your opinion, some would say your zealot like subservience to, that the Republican party was on the right track with its policy toward…Pakistan.  Do you still hold to that.” [tv viewing audience gives a collective…hungh?]&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-377779"><em>blue e @ 118 </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Jinny @77 &#8211; thanks, that actually helps</p>
<p>JohnSwifty @98 &#8211; Kristol is on Charlie Rose tonight. Gods know why.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Charlie will ask, perhaps, ONE penetrating question.  Here’s a an FDL challeng: what will it be?</p>
<p>I’m going to go with, “Mr. Kristol (fawning and shuffling of paper) in the past you have expressed your opinion, some would say your zealot like subservience to, that the Republican party was on the right track with its policy toward…Pakistan.  Do you still hold to that.” [tv viewing audience gives a collective…hungh?]</p>
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