
I was watching the History Channel, and they're showing a documentary on the liberation of Luzon from the Japanese, probably the least studied of the US Army's major campaigns.
The aging veterans are describing how they participated in the battles there, a story not told outside the Army. When we discuss the Pacific War, it is the Marines battles in the Central Pacific, Saipan, Peleliu, Iwo Jima and Okinawa which make up the narrative. The brutal battle for Manila, the liberation of Santo Tomas, Los Banos and Cabantuan prison camps are the stuff of history buffs.
I bring this up for a reason. If you hit my site, The News Blog, you'll see a couple of stories, one on how the US released techincal data to make nuclear weapons. The other, about a group of Washington assholes called the Late Night Shots. There are others, like the Capitol Club, groups of young rich assholes who spend their weekends and evenings drunk and hitting on their fellow Hill Rats and other Washington parasites.
These are the people who cheer the war on and talk about patriotism. They want to lead America, they think they are on the path to power. But they have no sense of duty, no sense of what it really means to serve this country. Most of them would "support" the war, but few would risk their lives in it.
As you hear the veterans speak, they were younger than these parasites when they ran through a burning Manila, they had a sense of duty and knew they were fighting for something they could give their lives for.
Now, military service is far from the only way to serve this country. But in wartime, it would be nice if the war's supporters didn't think they could be cheerleaders and it would be acceptable. It so clearly isn't.Even the neocons are now running away from the war they supported.
If you read this month's Harper's, you'll see an article on training conservatives for the future. What I found so amazing was the level of fantasy they were engaging in. They were going to be warriors against liberalism, oppose this fantasy of the left. What was so amazing was that they took it seriously, as if these fever dreams existed in the real world.
This is why they can talk of supporting the war while drinking and getting laid in Washington.
Conservatism used to be the home of hard minded realists, who didn't trust government. Now, you have people acting as if they're living in a real life Evercrack game. Liberals are uniformly evil, conservatives always right, it was an amazing world view to see on display.
When I think about the release of all of Iraq's nuclear secrets, what strikes me most is that the right blogosphere thought they were qualified to assess documents that the CIA and DIA would spend years going through with experts, debriefing people, comparing it to things in their archives, checking patterns. Not one of the right bloggers revelling in this thought for a second of the consequences of this, that people who could use this information would also be playing along.
They had no responsibility, no sense of duty beyond ideology. By placing party above country, they have proven themselves to be anything but the patriots they imagine themselves to be.



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Iraq’s nuclear research? Up for grabs.
How we interrogate prisoners? State secret.
So called conservatives? The take on this here is that the Republicans are mostly concerned about power and money. Sated power, greed and hegemony. Not much else.
I wonder if history will say the one thing that brought this cabal down was they believed their own propaganda. No one can keep any semblance of meaningful debate when one is so busy telling lies – and believing them.
Unfortunately well over 30% of America, ones that consistently vote and donate money,
Thanks for stopping by the ‘lake, Steve, I’m headed over to read the full story on these evildoers, or as much as I can stand.
Brazil is also working it’s butt off to become a nuclear power.
thanks, steve. you have one of the coolest, most responsible blogs out there. i hold you in the highest esteem, right there with digby and billmon and firedoglake…..
Every Republican should vote for a Democrat: http://ogb.wfu.edu/?id=3834_0_8_0_M
I watched online while the new Presiding Bishop was invested today. The woman is amazing.
Her sermon, in part…
“Conservatism used to be the home of hard minded realists, who didn’t trust government.”
Oh please. This is the myth they put out, you know, like Republicansareresponsibleadultsonnationalsecurity.
Any examples of these vaunted hard minded realists, who didn’t trust government?
fahrender @
6
Ditto
Bullseye, thanks.
Hi Steve, good to see you here again. I read a book (from my dad’s study) about the war in the Pacific, called The Rising Sun by John Toland. It is one of the best books I have read.
Getting back to the point of your post, it is remarkable how divergent the Republican brand (fiscally conservative, patriotic, strong on national defense) is from reality: corrupt, cowardly, college republicans on the take.
Steve,
It would be nice if we could get back to a point in this country where the military officer corps was not only more representative of the general populace (with conservatives, moderates and liberals all represented), but where the Young Princes of Conservatism all had spent some time in uniform, since they’re the ones who have the greatest disconnect between knee-jerk support for military action and an honest understanding of what it means for those involved.
While the officer corps is definitely more conservative than the population in general, what’s striking is that the Creepy Pod People Republican Princelings want to share some of the cultural ethos of the military (short hair, dedication and true belief in their “mission,” conservative clothing) without, you know, the actual bother of serving. Of enduring some discomfort or actual hardship. Of selflessly taking care of your troops before yourself. You know, actual character-building stuff.
Feh.
Steve said:
“Golly, ain’t life grand? It’s just like a video game. Sex, drugs and rock ‘n roll. Let’s party Dude!”
There must be a factory somewhere, ’cause they’re turning so many of them out in the same mold as Junya.
And that’s a thought that chills my very soul.
Thanks for the thoughts Steve. Yes, we have an entire generation which has been taught to think of life as a single dimension. They have Rush mimicing Bush with this “don’t worry be happy” mantra effectively teaching listeners how to disengage their brains and just chant talking point happy talk.
As the people who post here eagerly ready themselves for a raucous debate, Rush has taught his followers the art of stopping any discourse by thwacking the messenger and thus life is played out on a flat screen. No tears, no sweat, no blood, no discourse, no plan and finally no consequences until one day you wake up and the world outside is black.
OT, Bush keeps asking for the Democratic plan for victory in the
War in ErrorGWOT. If Dems start paying attention to the liberal blogs, perhaps they’ll recall that it starts with the Powell Doctrine for the Use of Military Force.Once the Republicans, start paying attention to fundamentals, they won’t slaughter so many innoncent American lives.
OT, Sara over at thenexthurrah, has done some great posts on the HUNT Report, which I think West Point still teaches about Military Occupations. The Hunt Report (1922?) was the blueprint that Gen. George Marshall used for the occupations of Germany and Japan.
As per usual WH ignored lessons the U.S. has already learned.
Lou Costello @ 7
I think Karl is gonna be surprised as hell as to just what his vaunted GOTV produces.
And I admit it, I’m taking guilty pleasure from the thought of Karl’s pants filling up by the bucketful.
AP says earlier:
AP – Long locked out of power, Democrats appear poised to win control of the House and possibly the Senate in midterm elections this week amid a national clamor for change after four years of war in Iraq.
Let’s extend this point a little. It’s not just these young rich assholes you speak of, young rich assholes though they may be.
Let’s start talking about the nationwide conceit that the USA is the world’s only superpower. From this polluted spring ultimately comes most of our troubles.
Here’s something we don’t think about enough – isn’t it the height of absurdity to think that country with a volunteer army could be the “world’s only superpower”? This assumption is the most fucked-up piece of self-delusion imaginable.
I’m not arguing for a draft here, I’m arguing that a country that won’t stand for one has no business deluding itself that it is the world hegemon and trying to do grand things that only such a hegemon could do. Ultimately, these people just aren’t serious but they’re privileged enough to escape the consequences of their stupidities and foist them on others.
Quite apart from what happens on Tuesday, getting back to reality ultimately means that the United States needs to lose this conceit and seriously try to figure out how the fuck it’s going to survive in a world it can’t completely control.
There’s another group I have to wonder about, aside from the Late Night Snots: college law perfessors for torture.
Hugh Hewitt, Glenn Reynolds, and Ann Althouse. Now Ann there did not take a position, because it was too complex. Or something. But if law professors can’t defend the Constitution, why do they have jobs teaching law?
Hey folks when W & Rummmie starts drafting to clean up this MESS!They will be the ONE’S at the front of the line for a deferrment.
Conservatives used to believe in individual rights, privacy, minimal government intervention in harmless human activities, minority rights, and be against unnecessary foreign adventures. And Conservatives also once did not believe in deficit spending. And the list goes on and on. Myth? Nope.
Amen, Steve.
The fundamental, moral difference between the parties at this point is that Democrats have a sense of duty — as a result of which we believe that government should use its powers to help people — and that Republicans do not.
(And amen to John Casper @ 15 about the Powell Doctine, which is an example of that duty… in this case, our duty to the soldiers who volunteer to risk their lives for our country.)
One more example in today’s Times — out of too many to begin to list — of the hell their ideological blinders created: Graphic illustrations showing the results of the increasing sophistication of Iraqi snipers. Just one more thing making Iraq a hell on earth for the brave men and women we send there — for nothing. Except to be targets. This is happening while they people who sent them there are prattling on about completing the mission and slamming Democrats for wanting to cut and run. But they’ve forgotten what the mission is, if they ever knew, or are keeping it a secret. That’s what the election is all about – starting to hold these corrupt and mindless bastards accountable. In just three days we can begin.
One would hope life would bitch slap at least some of these kids and eventually they grow up. Unfortunately,lots of money is a great insulator. Sometimes I have the very un-liberal thought that no one should have access to more than 5 million dollars in an entire lifetime. Yeah,I know,but when you see kids like this,it sounds like a good idea.
What struck me was back when Bush was stumping for his moronic Social Security “plan” and college kids were cheering and saying how is had to go. I realize the young think they’re invincible,but do they not have elders they respect at all? It just boggles my mind how everything in today’s conservative party is just so MEAN.
A handcuffed veteran, Mike Stark, offers some opposition research to the Allen campaign.
When I think about the release of all of Iraq’s nuclear secrets, what strikes me most is that the right blogosphere thought they were qualified to assess documents that the CIA and DIA would spend years going through with experts, debriefing people, comparing it to things in their archives, checking patterns. Not one of the right bloggers revelling in this thought for a second of the consequences of this, that people who could use this information would also be playing along.
Bad enough that the right blogosphere would think this, but it’s their *job* to be clueless idiots, and their belief that they could find the pony buried in the mountain of documents would have been harmless if the fucking Commander-In-Chief hadn’t believed it too.
It terrifies me that there is no difference between the right-wing idiots in the blogosphere and the trollosphere, and the ones running our country… into the ground.
Te feeling here is in accord with Noam Chomsky’s views on ‘just and unjust wars’. And I regard the Iraq war as unjust. The “Gulf of Tonkin Resolution” and lies about there being WMD’S in Iraq, satisfy my definition of unjust wars.
John Casper @ 15
The one in bold is the one that all U.S. politicians who feel they deserve national office need to understand. It’s particularly important that they realize that what I’ll modestly refer to as the “Cujo Corallary” (at least until we can figure out who thought of it first) applies. It says:
Johnson forgot this, and so did W. When a President lies to the public about why he started a war, there’s going to be a drop in support when the truth comes out, particularly if the war is going badly. Of course, one of the problems each of these Presidents had was an inability to process the idea that things might go badly, but maybe in the future they’ll think about that one, too.
It’s an easy priniciple to remember, too. A shame no one takes time to study the classics any more.
There are many voters without a home right now
The libertarian wing of the gooper party loves the bill of rights and hates the intrusion of religious zealotry into american politics
anyone want em?
Oklahoma kiddo @
27
my take: the Iraq War was just….
…just wrong, that is.
While my other comment is in moderation, I’ll just add a thank you to Steve for stopping by, and add that I’m also surprised at how little both the Phillipines campaign and the New Guinea campaigns are covered by military historians. They were important, if only because they kept the Japanese Army occupied there so they couldn’t be use elsewhere, and they sound like about the worst possible place to have a war. They were at the far end of a 10,000 mile supply line, and they were also the lowest priority for just about everything except malaria medicine.
RBG @ 25
In case you’re not a registered Kosak (sic?) but wanna show Mike some love:
http://www.callingallwingnuts……ree-press/
TWO MORE DAYS TO VOTE DAY
it’s almost over!
rwcole @ 29
It’s hard for me to buy into the idea that government has no place in managing or affecting the economy, which seems to be the libertarians’ principal belief. I mostly subscribe to the idea that the least amount of government we can get along with is the best, but there’s nothing magic about “the market”. It’s something that works well for what it does, but it doesn’t take many aspects of quality of life into account.
Right now, if I were a Libertarian, I suspect I’d be voting Democrat just to clean the crooks out of government, but in two or four years’ time I’d probably have drifted back to the dark side ;-)
rwcole @ 28
“anyone want em?”
I might. But there are certain matters in which the Libertarians believe which I find troubling. Though I have long ago come to grips with the fact that human nature, and just as certainly, politics, is not perfect.
I voted early today.
On a paper ballot.
With a pencil.
Damn, that felt good.
Steve, thanks for your powerful post and the moral clarity you bring to your work.
I checked out “Late Night Shots“.
These people can’t be for real, can they?
“DC’s best and whitest”
$30 k/yr and car payments from parents, $200/wk for the girlfriend.
They’re making it up (I hope).
Breaking CNN….
Haggard is out! For among other things, “sexually immoral conduct”
Cozumel @ 39
We noticed. :-P
Cozumel @ 39
Out of meth and shopping around for more?
yeah- the libertarians are a bit of a load- but dems badly need to ADD a constituency. There aren’t enough sane americans to make a political party who can build a majority.
Madison Guy @ 23
Great post, MG. I was just writing something about the same story, and you’re exactly right.
OT – CNN just reported, they fired him (Haggard) and issued a blistering statement, finding him guilty of “sexually immoral conduct.”
http://americablog.blogspot.co…..e-has.html
My father served on the USS Crosby in the Pacific for nearly the entire war. Because of the rightful emphasis on the scope of Iwo Jima the battle for Corregidor is relatively unknown. It was a horrific battle with US Paratroopers fighting a dug in enemy determined to fight to the death. For those who may be interested the “Heritage Battalion” maintains a rich history on this web site.Heritage Battalion Not only was my dad a WWII Vet but he was also a died-in-the-wool Republican. When I came home from Vietnam and became involved in the VVAW he may not have been thrilled but he absolutely supported my right and responsibility to do what I thought was right. He died about six months after the invasion of Iraq but he strongly felt it was a real mistake. He would be livid at the jackasses if he were here today.
(AP) — A suspected terrorist who spent years in a secret CIA prison should not be allowed to speak to a civilian attorney, the Bush administration argues, because he could reveal the agency’s closely guarded interrogation techniques.
twolf1 @ 41
More that he could throw away ; ) LOL
Steve Gilliard said:
Nothing new here, Steve. During the Civil War, privileged young males literally bought their way out of serving.
http://www.archives.gov/public…..cords.html
Cujo359 @ 34
Yes. No if’s and or but’s. If I were a Libertarian I’d NOT be voting Republican. My option would be ’stay home’ or ‘vote Democrat’. The choice would be clear. I’d vote Democratic.
rwcole @ 46
Give that guy a lawyer!
If you identify your self-interest with the common good, anything that you desire becomes permissable.
What’s good for General Motors is ggod for America.
What’s good for Tom Delay is good for America.
My mission of getting laid is good for me and I am good for America.
You getting killed instead of me is good for me and therefore – good for America.
It’s all good.
rwcole @ 2:15 pm (#42)
I’d suggest they add all the people who have been left out of this wonderful economic boom of ours. That would be a start, and there are a lot of them, er, make that “us”.
Perhaps the saddest observation of all. Still, part of the problem is that many folks don’t get much real information from the television news these days, and see or hear very little else. If there’s a way to fix that, things may start to change.
Evangelical leader Ted Haggard resigns
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – The Rev. Ted Haggard agreed to resign Saturday after the New Life Church’s independent investigative board recommended removal, saying he was guilty “of sexuallly immoral conduct.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..gations_59
Don’t bother with the link, that’s it ; )
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
New Life Church
Colorado Springs, Colorado
We, the Overseer Board of New Life Church, have concluded our deliberations concerning the moral failings of Pastor Ted Haggard. Our investigation and Pastor Haggard’s public statements have proven without a doubt that he has committed sexually immoral conduct.
The language of our church bylaws state that as Overseers we must decide in cases where the Senior Pastor has “demonstrated immoral conduct” whether we must “remove the pastor from his position or to discipline him in any way they deem necessary.”
In consultation with leading evangelicals and experts familiar with the type of behavior Pastor Haggard has demonstrated, we have decided that the most positive and productive direction for our church is his dismissal and removal.
In addition, the Overseers will continue to explore the depth of Pastor Haggard’s offense so that a plan of healing and restoration can begin.
Pastor Haggard and his wife have been informed of this decision. They have agreed as well that he should be dismissed and that a new pastor for New Life Church should be selected according to the rules of replacement in the bylaws.
That process will begin immediately in hopes that a new pastor can be confirmed by the end of the year 2006. In the interim, Ross Parsley will function as the leader of the church with full support of the Overseers.
A letter of explanation and apology by Pastor Haggard as well as a word of encouragement from Gayle Haggard will be read in the 9:00 and 11:00 service of New Life Church.
since when is it immoral to get a massage?
rwcole @ 55
When it’s internal.
Well ok- TED shouldn’t have bought the damn meth- but he threw it AWAY- EVERY TIME HE BOUGHT IT
And look- everyone needs a massage sometimes- what’s WRONG with these people?
Nice job Steve. The shallowness and vapidity of these people is truly mind boggling. And what’s worse, these clueless assholes were the lifeblood of the Iraqi CPA.
Go Blue! yes, close call today, but we’ll take it.
rwcole @ 57
Waste not want not: If he hadn’t thrown it away, he wouldn’t have to keep going back for more.
rwcole @
55
That’s not the issue. He littered when he threw the drugs away.
rwcole – Do you have a link to the AP story? por favor..
The old J.S. Mill/Jeremy Bentham/Francis Place ‘utilitarian argument’. Strange how some ideas and truths are seemingly self-evident.
This Election, “Values Voters” Should Choose the Common Good over Fascism
by Dave Robinson
“Politics in this election year and beyond should be about an old idea with new power—the common good. The central question should not be, ‘Are you better off than you were four years ago?’ It should be, ‘How can we—all of us, especially the weak and vulnerable—be better off in the years ahead? How can we protect and promote human life and dignity? How can we pursue greater justice and peace?’”
Cozumel @ 2:22 pm (#53)
So, is cheating on your wife, implicitly lying to the people who trust you, and being a hypocrite “sexually immoral”, or just a side issue? I’m not informed enough about theology to decide [/SARCASM].
Let’s call these right-wing creeps for what they are — Americans In Name Only. AINOs put party above country, readily trade their liberties for a phony “security,” and merely wrap their treason in the American flag while claiming to be “patriots.”
Okay, back to the phones…
The truly amazing thing is that Foleygate took up more space in the MSM than the torture bill and the nuclear secrets stories combined.
Don’t it make my RED state BLUE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ1VAHZkfe8
Lou Costello @ 44
Just one small correction. CNN labeled it a “resignation”, not a “termination”. The “Cowardly News Network” can’t stop itself from mincing words just in case the Repugs might hold on to Congress.
Kissing fannys gets to be such an ugly habit, doncha know?
Patrick 4/4 @ 59
Clearly, he was trying to pump up that service economy of ours. And, in keeping with Republican beliefs, he was doing it as a private citizen.
Cujo359 @ 68
And admirably paying way over minimum wage.
If you’re not faint of heart you can visit the site of Pastor Ted’s church and they have a link to their press release:
http://www.newlifechurch.org/
ifthethunderdontgetya @
19
I have spent my adult life absolutely committed to acadmic freedom.
When I see that John Yoo is at UC Berkeley and other willing collaborators in Yoo’s “Torture is American” project are hiding in academia, I’m appalled.
Were I to have used the most sincere and internally consistent academic arguments to justify NAMBLA’s program, I’d have lost my faculty status quite quickly.
Academic freedom is one matter.
Forceful applied advocacy with the intended result of violating international laws against torture another.
Yee – due to his official duties – is complicit in war crimes. Any of the chattering perfessers who submitted briefs supporting Yee’s advocacy for torture is also complicit – they formally and voluntarily particpated in the Executive Branch’s program to violate international law.
Last time I checked acdemic bylaws, moral turptitude is a condition allowing severance from even tenured faculty status at major academic institutions.
Even at the fundy schools, raping the cheerleaders, buggering the towel boy, or merely having it off with the Ag department mascot would result in loss of tenure (if the prof is caught, of course).
However the goopers’ ids may celebrate these acts, they aren’t exercises of academic freedom.
Yee et al’s successful political work to create active torture programs is no more an act of academic freedom than raping the towel boy.
Although I expect the gooper law profs to find both acceptable. After all, if the act doesn’t result in death or organ failure, the torture profs tell us the effect is only temporary, and hence excusable.
Unlike the effect the torture profs hope to have on our Republic.
While we’re waiting for their extradition – it will be awhile – the perfessors may enjoy receiving travel brochures about the Hague.
Every war criminal should have a gaol.
Cujo359 @
28
Your corallary is equally applicable to any other subject of political discourse. Those who fail this basic dictum will be held accountable for lying sooner or later, one way or another.
Accountability – that’s what’s coming, and it’s going to be riding one whale of a wave. Hope George knows how to surf.
Young rich entitled asshole — now who does that sound like? Our fearless leader, perhaps? When we have the best democracy money can buy, when we pretend an empty suit with the intellect of cheese is qualified to be president, we shouldn’t be surprised at all the assholes in the nation flocking to his banner. Unfortunately, he’s not just their president — we’re stuck with him, too.
Eureka–Can’t remember where I found that one- sorry.
Kirk Murphy,
Excellent post on academic freedom and responsibility. However you should have issued a spew alert before this:
“Even at the fundy schools, raping the cheerleaders, buggering the towel boy, and having it off with the Ag department mascot would result in loss of tenure (if the prof is caught, of course).”
Reminded me of Tom Lehrer saying he used to major in Animal Husbandry until he got caught at it…
Thanks, John Casper #15. To bring in the Powell Doctrine at this point is important. This Administration didn’t stumble blindly into Iraq, although it certainly did look that way. It had solid experience and ideas like the Powell Doctrine about how to execute a successful and ethical foreign policy and it knowingly chose to ignore them.
It wasn’t just that conservatives didn’t think about the consequences as Steve Gilliard writes. It was that they didn’t think at all. Look at their track record: Iraq, Katrina, increasingly Afghanistan, Medicare drug prescriptions with the donut hole, uneconomic tax cuts for the rich. They prefer torture and illegal wiretapping because it’s too hard to actually go and learn something about the world and the people in it. They want to build a 700 mile fence to cover a 2,000 mile border. They don’t think. We have been led for 6 years by George Bush’s intestines (his gut) and those who have followed them, which does not make them any the less guilty for their disasters. It just helps explain why we are in the mess we’re in.
gee, thanks, Harry:
Oklahoma kiddo @
21
Umm, Eisenhower times? That’s pretty close to mythical.
Peterr @ 2:38 pm (#72)
But especially important when contemplating a major war. They almost inevitably become long, costly, and draining affairs. There are some political lies that Presidents can get away with, but this isn’t one of them.
I sure hope so. In fact, if it doesn’t I’d be very afraid for the future of this country. It’s hard to imagine that we could tolerate criminal behavior of this magnitude without consequences to the criminals.
Suppose that Pastor Ted gives three hundred dollars to Bruce for a massage- and suppose that Bruce gives the $300 to Ralph for a massage- and so on for say 100 massages.
How much has pastor Ted helped the local and national economy when all the massaging is done?
Congressman Reichert (R-WA) brags that he fired a single mom school bus driver that gave the finger to the Presidential motorcade. VP Cheney states “It may not be popular with the public — it doesn’t matter in the sense that we have to continue the mission and do what we think is right. And that’s exactly what we’re doing,” .
The GOP does not give a damn for American citizens only corporate donors and the wealthy. A fact that The Mighty Wurlitzer is finding harder and harder to cover over.
Thanks Marion -
You’ve helped my sense of humor to stand up to my pc-ness! (and not even offer it a chair)
rwcole @ 80
Enough for a growth spurt?
If the goopers would start collecting taxes on prostitution, we could turn the deficit into a surplus- and that’s just with the GOOPERS!
more on those scary San Francisco values:
why do San Franciscans hate America?
kirk murphy @ 82
Any time! I’ve always thought that if you can’t laugh at it, it’s not worth keeping around. And that includes church, sex, death, taxes, spiders, or whatever… Laugh on!!
HotFlash @ 78
Yep. And another Republican too. Abe Lincoln. And of course there’s always Earl Warren.
HotFlash @ 2:44 pm (#78)
It’s hard to imagine, but there was a time when if you believed in minority rights (within limits), and that an honest day’s pay deserved an honest day’s work, you’d probably have been a Republican. Some time during the 20th Century that changed, though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Square_Deal
UPDATE: I intended to write “an honest day’s work deserves an honest day’s pay” above, but I like it better the way I actually wrote it. Serendipity or some damn thing.
“Corrupt, drunk and republican is not way to go through life, son.”
San Francisco values:
Good beer, good wine, fresh fish, smoke wherever you want and ignore the law.
These things will make a nation strong.
Lou Costello @ 89
Wait til they find out about double-secret probation.
Surely there are nice travel brochures somewhere that need to be sent to these nice people. How do they spell it? The Haag?
Would be interesting to see a list of the lawyers and other factotums eligible for an all expense tour of the facilities there.
This sounds like an excellent plan for action after the elections.
Lou Costello @ 89
If only George Herbert Walker Bush had taken Dim Son aside and said that to him… Sigh…
Other San Francisco values- when you sail in the bay- be prepared to reef yer sail.
San Francisco values
Always buy a good pair of shoes.
San Francisco values
“Play the ball where it lies and finish every putt.”
San Francisco values
“Never overcook your pasta”!
San Francisco values driver education….
..to such an extent it would appear to have been priceless here for some time…
:0
DeWine smacked down by Matthews: http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..to-dewine/
San Francisco!!! THE City. For me.
rwcole @ 95
Cheap shoes end up being paid for. I think this is actually one value that’s truly universal.
San Francisco values
Eat daily from each of the major food groups.
SF values:
Chianti in a 6-foot tall musket-shaped bottle.
kirk murphy @ 98
The City. Why that’s where I learned to parallel park. On the sidewalk.
punaise, any respect I had for Harry Reid vanished from the moment I found this passage from the Congressional Record of September 25, 2006 where Reid is discussing with Bill Frist S 3930 the Torture and Kangaroo Courts Act, aka the Military Commissions Act:
Harry Reid is talking to Joe because in the great scheme of things backstabbers have to stick together even if they don’t trust each other.
San Francisco values off-street parking. I have a friend who claims to be renting an off-street parking place for $2500/mo, and the landlord threw in an 1BR apartment for $10/mo more.
rwcole @
42
I’m don’t think that is the way to go. Many progressives have felt they had no one to vote for decades. I think the Dems could move a lot more left and pick up a fair number of progressive voters who are (arguably) sane. In any case, it is self-defeating to gerrymander your core beliefs hoping to attract groups who do not share your core values. If Libertarians choose to vote for Dem candidates for whatever reason that is fine. But don’t abandon the real Dems, that is what the DLC did to us, chasing after ‘centrist’ votes (or at least that was the excuse, which I don’t buy, but that’s another rant).
But tell you what. Inspired by The Cautionary Tale of Joe Lieberman, or How 10 Years in DC Can Corrupt The Most Idealistic, I think we need to hope for *real* Republicans to make a come-back. We will need them to keep us Democrats real and honest. Don’t want to end up getting all entitled like this bunch of R’s.
rwcole @ 74
No problemo. Amazing how much is coming out since the passage of the evil torture bill. Still wondering if we will ever hear from the Red Cross team who were scheduled to report on gitmo the week of the bills passage.
San Francisco – where the stop lights are there for decorative purposes only.
petedownunder @ 109
and South of Market means whatever you want it to mean…
punaise @ 77
I think there’s some confusion about the division of labor here. I don’t blame Reid for offering carrots to make sure Lieberman doesn’t jump ship to the GOP in the event of a 50-50 Senate (or to turn a 51-49 Dem Senate into a 50-50 Senate); that’s his job as caucus leader. Nor does it strike me as plausible that any large number of CT voters are looking to rumors of back-channel discussions in Washington for a cue as to how to vote on Tuesday.
Beating Lieberman in Connecticut isn’t Reid’s job, it’s Lamont’s.
Peterr @ 106
Years ago when I worked for Bank of America in Noe Valley and the Mission, parking was a real budget-buster.
Don’t know much about San Francisco values, having only been there once about 35 years ago, but what a wonderful city it was and is. This is turning into almost as much fun as “I blame Clinton.” So, in that spirit, my own San Fransico Values addition:
“Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes.”
Swopa–Hear, hear! (or is it here! here”?
Marion- that’s a great one- similar to the famous piece of advice in the Strunk and White Style Guide:
“If you are not sure how to pronounce a word- say it LOUD”.
Hugh @ 105
Hugh, thank you for finding this and bringing it to light.
I hope repeal of the torture/dungeon laws and of the recent laws facilitating use of military force against domestic public assembly are core objectives of the Dems’ “100 hours” program.
Harry’s public complicity in war crimes may help to motivate his advocacy on behalf of torture repeal.
rwcole @ 114
Hear, hear! To point up the importance of something being said in a debate or discussion. (Here, here never worked on my cats, so I never bother with that one…)
rwcole @ 115
I hate to confess it, but I saw that on a bumper sticker on a Volvo about 2 weeks ago. I almost chased them down to find out where they got it! Maybe I’ll try “teh Google.”
Swopa # 111,
Of course, if Establishment Democrats had come out strongly for Lamont after he defeated Lieberman and campaigned with Lamont, Reid might not have to be making these behind the scenes and before the election negotiations with Lieberman. It was all a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.
If Lamont fucks this up and ol Joe is in a position to foil a dem majority- someone’s gonna have to deal with him! You can probably negotiate a better deal NOW than after the election- and the good news is- if he loses- NO DEAL.
The Lamont team assured us that there was NEVER a chance of dems losing a seat- cause whoever ran the primary was CERTAIN to win the general election- etc.
Well that turned out ta be bullshit- so the Lamonties bear some responsibility for where we are now- and probably shouldn’t get upset if Harry tries ta fix it.
Hugh, I think the key is “Establishment Democrats.” They’re so entrenched inside the Beltway that they have NO CLUE AT ALL what is going on in their own districts. I remember when I was younger and still lived in NYC our Congressman (an old-school Republican and a good man, for whom I voted) used to stand at the subway stops and talk to people, starting about a month before Election Day. Even when he was a fairly long-time incumbent he ALWAYS said “My name is Bill Green, and I’m running for Congress.” He understood he had to win his seat every year, and he worked at it.
Which is one of the reasons I loathe, despise and detest Mark Green, who was a carpetbagging little SOB who wanted to get into Congress and moved into our district thinking we were too stupid to tell the “Greens” apart and would vote for a Democrat. He was sent packing with his tail between his legs… by folks who were for the most part Democrats but who knew a good Congressman when they had one. I still revel in the memory of Mark Green coming to a “meet the candidate” evening at my liberal Episcopal church. A bunch of us got there early, sat up front, and kept asking him questions like what his zip code was, what school district he was in, where his polling place was, what police precinct he was in, etc., etc. He squirmed like the worm he is.
(There. Now I feel better!)
We are talking about the backstabbing Joe Lieberman aren’t we? Which means that any deal that Harry makes with him isn’t worth spit if the Republicans are in a position to offer him a better one. And somehow I can’t work up a lot of sympathy for Harry having to fix a problem that he and his buddies largely created. Boxer and Big Dawg went to campaign for Joe in the primary and probably helped him get close enough to decide upon an independent bid. Then they don’t campaign with the Democratic nominee or criticize Holy Joe the King of Sanctimony himself.
Hi all… on the road in KY… AND yes I already voted and so did the 5 in my Take 5 to vote
My father enlisted when he was 17, just after his father died of sudden cardiac death at 42. He was the last group through Marine boot camp in the 6 month training, all others following were shorter. He was based in New Zealand for 10 months prior to the battle of Tarawa. He was the second wave in the battle of Tarawa. He was wounded but one of 11 who survived in his unit. He was shipped to Hawaii on the Queen Mary and then was in a military hospital in Santa Cruz. This is where he met my mother, just this September they celebrated 62 years of marriage.
The GI bill put my father through college, spent his career working for the Forest Service and retired to work building houses for Habitat for Humanity.
My father would never talk about his experience in war, once when I pushed near the end of the Vietnam war, he gave me Leon Uris book “Battle Cry”. Uris was in the battalion based across the road from him. Dad said it was the best depiction of what it was like.
Since the Iraq war, watching Moores F911 movie, he has been talking more. He participated in the WWII veteran story program and we have copies of the tape. FDR fought a world war on two fronts starting with severely depressed economy and destruction of the pacific fleet.
Today, we have a large number of aging Vets from WWII, Korea & Vietnam who need services and care. Add now the increasing numbers of Iraqi Vets and the 300,000 Vets of Gulf War I. The system cannot support the aged Vets and help the new Vets due to limited resources.
This issue alone is huge. IAVA has done a review of congressional votes, it clearly shows that Democrats vote to support All of our Veterans. This issue alone is why we need a Democratic Congress
Hugh @ 123
Hugh speaks for me.
Just saw the Fox Beltway boys (sounds like the Foley brigade) touching themselves over the “sweet win” Lieberman is gonna pull off.
GO NED!
Mr. President Loves His Towel
Check this youtube. Hope it doesn’t offend.
I’m thinking we’re the towel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrd2200ON3Y&NR
Completely agree.
John Casper @ 128
harry reid confuses supine for spine.
jeffreyw @ 92
I’m hoping local groups of law students and human rights activist will “adopt” their local professor(s) of Federal torture.
Travel brochures and other forms of legally permitted informational tranfer may help the perfessers in their duties.
Personally, I’m prone to daily re-enactments of Maher Arar’s horrific testimony of his torture and extradition. America – undr the Yee doctrine – kidnapped him and sent him to our Syrian spy allies, who obediently tortured him.
I’d like Arar’s testimony acted out in word, dance, mime and/or? in the main public space at UC Berkeley Law every day Yee lectures to students or speaks to media/audiences.
I’d like the same display on each of the campuses where the other torture professors are hiding and cashing paychecks.
Every day they lecture or speak, their academic community will have yet another reminder of their moral rot.
This could make for some a good series of videos…
might “The Torture Chase” work for a title?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 127
Puppy Porno? That looks like Tucker Carlson’s dog. http://tinyurl.com/ycgl7n
Oklahoma kiddo @ 127
And here I thought it was going to be about Duh President… I’m STILL howling!
Is it as bad out there as it is here with wall to wall political ads, all negative?
My favorite is one of a nightscope view of illegal aliens crossing the border. As I live in Illinois, I’m assuming they’re from Indiana.
Hugh @ 133
that must be what my mom’s relatives in Ohio have been talking about.
Why the Indiana exodus?
Is it Quayle season?
Kirk Murphy @ 3:27,
You asked “This could make for some a good series of videos… might “The Torture Chase” work for a title?”
To make it SELL in today’s America turn it into a “reality” show and it’ll go to the top of the charts. Think more along the lines of “Torture Island,” or “The Great Torture Race,” or “Survive Torture.”
Hugh @ 133
I’m making a particular point of not watching network TV during election season, so I almost never see them. (Down here in Red State Land it may be that they haven’t figured out how to buy time on cable…?) I’ve been exposed to some while watching KO, and that’s why God gave us the mute button…
Lou Dobbs just reminded me..
AZ, CO, MO, MT, NV, OH all have minimum wage increase on the ballot.
Kyle, Tancredo, Talent and Burns (among others) should all suffer due to this.
random quote – “Never again…. do I want to have to make explanations that I can’t explain.” –George W. Bush, Portland, Oregon, Oct. 31, 2000
Marion in Savannah @ 135
Ooh, with audience participation?
Marion in Savannah @ 135
episode one: waterboarding – blow it out your nose.
Yee needs to answer the question of if war crimes are illegal, would it be moral to inflict war crimes then only on people who commit them as a deternent. Like the Death Penalty is a Deternent, maybe we could get some judges from Texas to preside over the Bush/Yee war crimes trial, I hear those guys think everybody is guilty.
HotFlash @
138
Who Wants to Be An Interrogator?
Patrick 4/4 @
141
Come on down!
Patrick 4/4 @ 141
The Inquisitor’s Apprentice — oops, ziggurat alert.
Marion in Savannah @ 135
You know, I very much believe you are right.
Some days I feel like a small child peeking out from behind the drapes at Augustus’ banquets -
as the years go by, the guests’ palates grow jaded…..
Coward’s!
Nothin’ else to say.
You support it? YOU go fight it!!!
I’m a 48 year-old guy who lives in Fayetteville, NC and see the kids who come back – every day. Damaged! BROKEN!!! Leg’s gone, arm’s, eye’s…. SHATTERED!!!!!!!! And I see see their PRIDE, their HONOR!
Thier pride and honor – WASTED!!!
I go to my car and cry…
No, I WEEP….
Jesus, these people in charge are EVIL!!!
I’m crying now…
EVIL!!!
FUCK THEM!!! Not enough; bad shit can happen to them…
Dante, warm up another circle of Hell!
“Nuff said…”
Patrick 4/4 — ME, ME, ME… I have a little list… they’ll none of them be missed… (With apologies to Gilbert & Sullivan)
Just heard Tweety say if Dems win the world will view it as a big loss for Bush and that he’s lost control of the country…
Sure wish he would’ve noted the obvious corollary. The world will view it as a big win for America and the restoration of democracy and putting us on track to restore our moral integrity in the world.
Cheney and Bush ascribe to the Bowel Doctrine.
-GSD
Prairie Sunshine @ 147
I think the world will view it as the nation is reasserting that there is still a modicum of sanity left among the citizenry.
-GSD
The Democrats have been hedging their bets all along with JoeShloMo. I heard it from my neighbor early on in the campaign. He had been a power broker in our state senate and saw it as typical political dealmaking.
It is pathetic, and truly, I think they are trying to double back to make sure all that R payola did not change things “with us.” Because that is exactly what they have to face: is he with us or again’ us?
Maybe there will be a CT surprise on Tuesday. If so, the Ds can for sure count on Ned. Because he is solid, even though they have put the knife in his back.
I really am disappointed but not surprised about these wimpy Ds. Screw them. With or without meth. Or a massage.
GSD @ 148
The Potty Barn rule?
Marion in Savannah @ 146
With wagers? Or could be a real fund raiser. I can think of some good causes.
Kirk Murphy, Augustus’ banquets were YEARS ago… My thought is we’re much closer to Caligula or Nero. But then I’m an old cynic…
Marion in Savannah @ 153
Agreed on Caligula or Nero!
(although to meet the needs of the gooper congresscriters, Elagabalus’ festivities may be more appropriate…)
HotFlash @ 152
HotFlash, I think you’re really onto something here… Maybe NEXT Tuesday, when we’ve all had a week to recover from our celebratory hangovers, we can get some smart folks here working on it. The production values would have to be top notch, and we’ll need some snappy theme music… We couldn’t possibly get it on the air before, oh, next January after the new Congress is sworn in. However, I think we’ve got a winner on our hands!
Patrick 4/4 @ 103
Dim Sum at the Golden Dragon. Yum. Then a drive out to the Napa Valley.
Since Lieberman and torture always meet up in these threads. I always thought a good name for his campaign would be The Stamford Project.
Some good news from VA: The Black vote is finally breaking big for Webb and the gender gap has reemerged. “The women are coming home,” as one poll-watcher says. The new Mason-Dixon poll in Va shows Webb ahead by one, both still under 50.
Marion, Kirk, Patrick 4/4,
We are just playing and I think it is healthy for us to do so. But I cannot help but think of the young folks we are getting to really torture and to turn their minds to doing it in ever more novel and ‘effective’ ways. Those soldiers will be broken as surely as their victims, one can never undo such an action no matter how long they live. Another reason we have to stop this evil and bring our people home. And however will we make amends to the hundreds of thousands on both sides that have been so harmed by our country?
punaise @
151
Extra Doody for you.
-GSD
kirk murphy @ 154
I bow to the historian! I had never heard of Elagabalus, so I went to “teh Google.” The VERY FIRST THING had this to indicate what the site was about:
“Emperor Elagabolus was a fourteen-year-old transvestite from Syria who worshipped the sun. … and later, “How could Elagabolus keep power? …”
Damn…. You sure do know your emperors, don’t you?! If one is a believer in reincarnation one can see Pastor Ted there…
Mascot proposal for Torture Island – Nip Vicious the punk as*ed dog.
Matt O.’s upstairs!
TeddySanFran @
163
link
HotFlash @ 159
As I said in an earlier post, I value humor VERY highly. Partly because it keeps me from killing myself. The only thing any rational human needs to see to understand why we do what we do to change America’s path is this:
http://www.editorandpublisher……1003345862
(I don’t know how to “name” links yet…)
Marion in Savannah @ 165
Use the “Link” button before you paste in the url. It will do it for you.
Re: humor and awful things. Aside from the necessary release, it’s a tool to degrade the unconscionable policies you despise.
In the wise words of Steve Martin, “Comedy is not pretty.”
Marion in Savannah @
165
Oh, hell, absolutely! I say ridicule the *SHIT* out of them. Laugh them into oblivion. Humour is the most potent and most benign of weapons — it strikes in direct proportion to the pomposity of the target and is harmless to the honest and humble. Unlike, oh, cluster bombs or DU, for example. Laughing is the opposite of terror and its antidote.
But I do worry about what’s happening to the kids. But damn, we’ll laugh ourselves sane and courageous, and then we’ll save them. And you guys are the *best* to laugh with.
HotFlash @ 159
HotFlash, thanks for your elegant description of torture’s cascade of torment.
Even if the goopers care only for themselves, what do they think will happen when Jonny Torturer comes marching home – and moves in next door?
I’m wondering when the medical boards of the 50 states will stop physician-torturers from practicing medicine in the civilian sector.
And to any military docs, nurses, psychologists, or other medics who particpated in GWOT torture directly or indirectly:
Fuck you, war criminals.
And “just following orders” is no excuse. That was settled at Nuremberg, medical war criminals.
My goal is that you never earn income from your training, and never treat or evaluate another human being.
May your civilian life be so miserable that you’ll look forward to three square meals and a warm cell in the Hague.
And may your victims’ attorneys plague you every day of your miserable lives until the Hague takes your freedom – and after.
Drifting OT
Marion in Savannah @ 161
Elagabolus = Heliogabalus
” I quote in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus,
In conics I can floor peculiarities parabolous;
I can tell undoubted Raphaels from Gerard Dows and Zoffanies,
I know the croaking chorus from the Frogs of Aristophanes!
Then I can hum a fugue of which I’ve heard the music’s din afore,
And whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinafore.”
A Modern Major General indeed!
I’m glad we’re all agreed, and thanks Patrick 4/4 for the tip on how to make “pretty links.” There’s a good new post upstairs that I think you’ll enjoy.
HotFlash @ 167
ditto (double ditto!) y’all are the best to laugh with – and I agree with using out laughter to mock the torturers and the terror they work to create.
i’ll never hurt ‘em physically, but i’ll cheerfully join to “mock them in the nighttime till their skin turns red”
(”ooooh, ooooh, pithy bloggers
see how fine they write…”)
apologies to the iggles….
hpschd @ 169
wow! that’s a find…
how cool…
Best to your pop and you!
katymine @ 124
getting into this thread at about 170 or so is just the price I will have to pay for working on my kitchen renovation this afternoon. But what the hell. This is one of the best posts I’ve read in a long time. Keep it up.
Getting this crap from the DCCC
jeffreyw @ 92
“Den Haag,” short for “’s Gravenshaag.”
Hi Raven,
I keep getting stuff from Harry, too. I sort of pretend that its a real letter and send a reply, although I am pretty sure all that I am supposed to do is cough up money. BlogUrchinz get so uppity!
I tell him which of the candidates I have supported via ActBlue or intend to, and tell him that I can’t really get behind (whoever, the scumbags). I add that I will continue to do all my donating to Dems via ActBlue and to specific candidates whose ideas coincide with mine, wherever in the US they are. I close with a cheery, encourage-the-troops thing — so much fun to put shoes on other feet!
I do believe we are changing the way we do politics in this country.
PS We have many Korean friends and often work with the Korean choirs here, most of them grew out of the Korean Christian missions/orphanages. Fervent Christians, ferocious singers, they do threek-hour concerts and close with Arirang. Heard it last Sunday, sung by a chorus of 80, audience of 1200 mostly family — not a dry eye in the place, not even our ’round’ ones!
And I make my own kimchee, want the recipe? ;)
There was at least once decent movie made about the Phillipines–”They Were Expendable.” Although it has it’s John Wayne moments, it’s pretty honest. The true insult to our military is the cavalier way they have been tossed into this pointless cauldron to kill and maim and be killed and maimed. It is absolutely unforgivable of the Republicans.
They are nothing but parasites and if given the opportunity to choose between being a parasite or a person who makes a living wage, has a purpose and reason for being and a brain, I’d still choose the later. really.
The thing with parasites is that they really don’t know why they are around or what they stand for or what thier purpose of life is. Look at how they turn out when they get older: like shrub.
I was always proud of having a brain and I’d still choose it first.
You look at guys like shrub who is an older parasite and think: I’m so glad that’s not me.
So let them be shallow and stupid and when they are 40 they will wonder why they exist.