Pat Tillman's brother, Kevin, has a powerful letter up at Truthdig, and it is worth a read — and a send around — as a reminder of who we are and who we ought to be. If for no other reason than this, a vote in November is critical: our military cannot speak up about what they see or disagree with while in uniform under the UCMJ. There are good reasons for this in terms of chain of command, but it puts even more of a burden on the rest of us — to be their voice, to speak up for the things that they and their families need. Here's a little from Kevin's letter:
…Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.
Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat. Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.
Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.
Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.
Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.
Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.
Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.
Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.
Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.
Somehow torture is tolerated.
Somehow lying is tolerated….
My Great Uncle died yesterday evening. He was a war hero, who survived bombing in Pearl Harbor when he served on the USS West Virginia, and again during the Normandy invasion on the USS Corry in the Atlantic, and then again in the Pacific on a ship I can't quite remember at the moment.
People in my family have always served their nation, with a fierce pride and a very accurate shot, coming out of the hills and hollers of West Virginia as we do. But they expected that the nation would stand up for them as well, through the good and bad times. It is up to each and every one of us to stand up for where we ought to go and what we ought to be.
The time is now to get out our vote. It comes at a critical juncture for this nation, which is in sore need of accountability. Had enough?
(This version of Danny Boy by Charlotte Church is a bit syrupy [even though I love it anyway, for sentimental reasons], but the fiddle player on this is amazing. My Uncle Larry would have loved it. Here's to you — and here's hoping they have some Jamison's in heaven.)
Related posts:
- CIA Changes Story on Past Torture Investigations
- Breuer’s Claims about Future Investigations Undermined by Cheney’s Claims about the Past
- How Many of GOP.com’s “Republican Heroes” Would Be Republicans Today?
- Is Obama Whistling Past the Graveyard on Afghanistan?
- Pres. Clinton: Your legacy on gay issues is about the future, not the past
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Sorry for your loss, Christy.
To heroes.
I’m sorry for your and your family’s loss, Christy
I hope Uncle Larry is enjoying his Jamison’s.
Serving the nation takes all forms. Your uncle served in his way, Christy, and you are serving in yours. I must say, though, that fierceness and accuracy seem to be a family trait!
Stand tall and sing out at his funeral, Christy. There’s a whole crowd who’ll be singing along with you, whether you can see them or not.
(tuning up . . .)
EPU’d and OfT
Christy – go take care of your family while we bicker amongst ourselves. my prayers are with you
I’m sorry to hear about your uncle as well. My dad was a Navy Tin Can sailor for 4 years in the Pacific. He also was a life long Republican but when I came home from Vietnam and became involved with the VVAW he supported my right and responsility to to what I thought was right. Let’s see how long it takes for them to swiftboat Tillman, not as long as it took them to tell the truth about Pat being killed by friendly fire. Thanks for posting this.MayDaze @ 1
EPUed: Yawn. The Q-poll was a big non-story to me. It’s already irrelevant. Joe got the crap stomped out of him in two debates. Give it a week to sink in.
And the Repubs “Islamofascists” and “stay the course” soundbites seem to be tanking. “Adapt to win” went nowhere. (And sounded too much like Darwin for the GOP’s base.) I’m still hoping they pull out all the stops and declare war on “IslamoCommunistNazis”. They could also try “IslamoLiberals”. Or if they’re really desperate, “IslamoAthiests”, but I don’t think they’ll get far with that one.
Yes…To heroes.
With us, without us, and within us.
John Casper, my response to you EPUed at 182 last thread.
Projected Friday afternoon news dumps:
Rep Jerry Weller (R-Illinois)–There was never any vaginal penetration.
Sen Larry Craig (R-Idaho)–There was never any anal penetration.
Memo to child molesters: While I am not a lawyer, I would still suggest that you think twice before defending youself with “All I did was give him a naked massage.”
Christy — If you think Kevin’s letter is powerful — pls post the recent article in “Remember Hios Name” in SPORTS ILLUSTRATED by Gary Smith — it changed my entire opinion of Pat and the Tillman family and the tragic level of deception now going on in Iraq and Washington: see link below:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c…..index.html
“You didn’t talk politics over there, not while you were still in the sandbox. But that night, as Pat watched another orange and white flash-bang shudder the distant town, he shook his head and said, “This war is so f—— illegal.” Russ, for the first time, realized how wobbly a tightrope Pat was walking between his integrity and his duty. Even later in their 3 1/2-month deployment in Iraq, as it began to appear that they’d been sent on a nukes-and-biochemical-weapons wild-goose chase, Russ never heard Pat go further than, “This is all bulls—.”
“They had tried to persuade him to be a recruiting poster boy in Washington rather than a Ranger. Surely, one family member was convinced, once the Army got its first glimpse of Pat’s psychological profile — he was the one who stood outside the Cardinals’ team prayer circle, the one who couldn’t wait to have a mutual friend arrange a meeting with renowned anti-war leftist Noam Chomsky after his discharge — it never would have allowed him to become a Ranger if it hadn’t had to because he was Pat Tillman.”
John Casper @ 4
Apparently McCain didn’t get the memo – the latest phase in the Rethug meltdown is to abandon “stay the course” per TPM.
Sorry about your great-uncle, Christy. Family ties us through time to the past and the present. I have family who fought in the War of Independence, those who are fighting in Iraq, and nieces, nephews and grandchildren who will make up that 100,000 if this war is not stopped. The former shine a light, and we in the middle can hold that light so it shines where it is most needed. Peace to your great-uncle, Christy, and thanks for all you do.
Christy -
Sorry for your loss. My own Dad (who passed about ten yrs. ago now) was a volunteer in Jan. 42 at the age of 29. His name was Larry, too. We had Danny Boy played for his funeral. He was a fan of that one, and was known for whistling it quite well.
–
IIRC, didn’t the Tillman brothers try to enlist together? I can’t quite remember the details, though. Anyway, patriots all, in that family. I do believe Pat rests easier knowing his brother is continuing patriotic work.
Lieberman’s lead growing in Conn.
What a waste of time this has all been.
Jameson in heaven what a wonderful idea. Will toast that and Great Uncles in the evening.
Blank Kludge:
From the Truthdig article
The neocons may have lied about his death, and used it as propoganda, but it’s funny how little the media wants you to know his true story… which is an anti-war one.
noogy at 16 – read down a thread. And if you think, for one fucking moment, that it is a waste of time to participate in the democratic process in this nation…then you are on the wrong blog.
WASHINGTON, July 17, 2003 – Brothers Kevin and Pat Tillman, both members of the 75th Ranger Regiment, were presented with a distinctive award July 16 during the 2003 ESPY Awards on ESPN.
The brothers were chosen as the recipients of the 11th annual Arthur Ashe Courage Award. This award is given to those who serve a greater good outside the sporting arena, officials said.
The two are known for trading in their team uniforms for BDUs. Both had flourishing sporting careers. Pat played football for four seasons as a safety for the Arizona Cardinals. Kevin played baseball for the Cleveland Indians’
minor league team.
The brothers were deeply impacted by the Sept. 11 attacks, according to family and friends. It was the catalyst for pushing them to enlist. Pat turned down a $3.6 million contract with the Cardinals to join the Army. Kevin ended his baseball career for the same reason.
Pat and Kevin both signed up for three years with the Army. They soon earned their place with the elite Army Rangers. There they were able to serve in Operation Iraqi Freedom, from where they recently returned.
Blank Kludge @
15
noogy @ 16
Dan, I thought we asked you not to track mud inside when you came for a visit… :)
Meanwhile, from the “All you have to fear is . . . Democrats” front, Bill Frist MD has sent out an appeal for $$:
Emphasis his.
There’s more, but you get the idea. The GOP is pushing hard for its GOTV efforts, but they’ve got a steep hill to climb.
BlueAmerica has been a great vehicle for getting $$ to progressive candidates, and we’ve seen some heroic – and I don’t use that word lightly – efforts on the part of many here to see that that money is put to good use. But we are faced with opponents who know they have their backs to the wall, on the verge of being held accountable, and desperate people do desperate things.
November 7. Be there, and bring your friends.
angie @
18
Angie, thanks.
Christy, I send my thoughts and prayers to you and your family. And you were great, yesterday, btw.
Yep! Absolutely… This blog represents the democratic process. Sheesh, aren’t we deluded.
Christy 20
Nice salvo! Hope it felt good to vent! [troll?]
noogy at 26 — well, I don’t know about you, but I helped raise a buttload of money for Democratic candidates around the country this week, argued the left side of things on C-Span yesterday morning, made get out the vote calls last Sunday for my local Dem group, and wrote a minimum of three articles a day for the last week encouraging people to get involved in the political process.
Thus far, you’ve tried to be an Eeyore and piss on everyone’s political participation. Just what are you doing apart from that, that we ought to celebrate, oh snide bearer of the torch of democracy?
Kimster and op99 – I left a comment for you at the end of the last thread.
don’t feed folks. Just watch mommy take care of the nice troll. methinks it picked the wrong day… heh heh.
MAN she’s COOKIN’! YOU GO GURRLL!!!
noogy @ 26
Liebertrolls are out in force today. That’s the Lieberman version of get out the vote – because he has no volunteer base on the ground
My condolences Christy.
My parents are WWII vets. And they both just mailed in their absentee ballots casting their votes for JIM WEBB.
Where’s Norske? I need some of that all caps fighting spirit this morning.
Christy, my deepest sympathies on the loss of your uncle. I write this with tears running down my cheeks. i think of my Irish grandfather, who as a Marine lost an arm in France in ww1, and my Irish father who soul was damaged by the horror he witnessed as a navy corpsman in the Pacific in ww2. They both would be ashamed of what the current administration has turned a country they fought and sacrificed for into. We, as the children of these hero’s, must fight to protect that legacy and return America to the noble experiment in Democracy that so many have sacrificed and died for. If there is no Jamesons in heaven i’m sure my grandpa will share some of his Bushmill’s with your uncle and toast to a Democratic victory in November.
Even if Ned loses (which I still don’t think he will) we’ve bloodied Joe and have forced him to show his true colors. His support of BushCo will have lost a lot of it’s power because the only way he will have maintained his seat is through Republican and lobbyist support – not the support of the Democratic Party in CT.
That alone has not been a waste of time
oh, and per Dr. Bong’s (and a few others) prescription…
Peace Pipe…
“…’ere.”
or “…’ear! ear!”
——–
And a round of Jameson’s for the house.
Eureka Springs, AR @
17
ESA—loved your reference to Camplaigning last thread.
Personally, I’d put much more stock in the comments of the Ned naysayers if they included what they were doing to support any progressive candidate…in any race…in any state.
Until they can do that, they deserve as much of my time as it takes me to skim over their comment.
CHS—take care, family first..
Christy Hardin Smith @ 28
SPANK!
This is OT Christy – please forgive me
But there is finally a communication from the Lamont campaign and I wanted to post it:
No one wants any poll to show them down 17 points. Or the UConn/Hartford Courant poll that showed down only seven points less than ten days ago. We weren’t even happy with the Zogby poll that showed us down six points yesterday.
I don’t know precisely what to make of today’s poll – – still waiting to hear what the R/D/I breakdown was, cause that isn’t released in the cross-tabs. I also know that it doesn’t track with our internal numbers, and probably not Joe’s either (given their whining the past few days).
We still have another debate left, prime time on Monday night. The current q-poll doesn’t include last night’s debate. We have a record ad buy running next week that Joe Lieberman can’t match. And Lord knows our ground game is unrivaled by any other major or minor party candidate in the race. Then there’s the absolute wild-card of Joe’s ballot placement.
But the one thing, above all else, that this campaign has going for it is this: We are right on the issues the people of Connecticut care about.
On November 7, the people of CT are going to stare down at their ballots and see a change agent vs. the embodiment of many of the problems in Washington, D.C. From Iraq, special interest influence and a career politician who (outside of just being dead wrong on Iraq) sticks his finger in the wind to gauge the prevailing winds before taking a stand on important issues like Social Security: Joe Lieberman is part of the problem.
Ned Lamont is the agent of change in this race, people want change, and we mean to deliver it.
Tim Tagaris
dab from CT @ 34
thank you. thank you.
and i also like the message it sends to some of our other senators…
we are not the lame dc pols who call themselves democrats, but refuse to fight for anything – no matter how important – unless they know they will win going in.
this race is important for all kinds of reasons – both national and local…. so, we do what we can… and in the mean time we learn a lot – about ourselves and eachother and how to take back our country. just think how much futher up the learning curve we’re going to be 2 years from now.
thanks dab and thanks to Mr. Tagaris.
GO Ned!
geez based on the traffic of nay sayers and concern trolls , I’d say folks are scareded about Ned’s movemenmt forward!
btw, gang, I’m a little wiped out at the moment, so if anyone has a good suggestion for a “Pull Up a Chair” topic for tomorrow morning…I’d love to hear them. Thanks.
Maydaze #13,
TPM merely notes that some GOP politicians are engaging in some cutting and running from stay the course. There is no mention of an alternative. I think for any politician who flip flops like this so close to the election we need to demand what their Plan B is and if it is as goofy as McCain’s suggestions we need to get that message out. Of course, I could see some trying to weasel out of this by hiding behind the
Bush IBaker Hamilton commission but with thousands dead, hundreds of billions of dollars wasted, 3 1/2 years gone by, and an election on the doorstep I think they owe us more.angie @ 40
——
ruffian @ 41
Yes and yes.
GO NED!
Besides splitting the Democrats votes and alienating what looks to be a reelected senator with a good amount of power… Yes, good job.
My question would be, why such obsessive focus on this asshole when there are 30 Democrats in congress who regularly vote even further to the right than him?
noogy @ 16
Yes, let’s all go home and cower under our beds because the terrorists are going to kill everybody, anyway.
The Pat Tillman story is emblematic of what’s gone so pervers about the Bush Administration and its (Grammar Police seal of proper apostrophe usage) supporters, including Joeyboy. They care so much for good PR that they turned a true hero’s story into shit. They took Jessica Lynch’s story and turned it into shit. They took Casey Sheehan’s story and used it to shit on his mother.
A government that lies, cheats, tortures, and steals is an illegitimate government. No amount of work to rid ourselves of that government is “a waste of time.”
Mr. Tagaris,
Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to comment here at FDL.
I hope you get a chance to read scarecrow’s, CTBob’s and Matt Stoller’s (from MyDD) comments on the prior thread, as they echo your’s.
We will not let Ned down.
Christy, my great uncle Norm Holmberg was also a survivor of the attack at Pearl Harbor. I don’t remember the name of his ship, to my shame. My dad (stepfather) served in WWII — lied about his age to enlist at 16 years old — and suffered with nightmares for a long time. Shrapnel came out of his body till he died at 72 years old.
I was against the Vietnam War and I am against the invasion of Iraq and the incompetent methods this administration uses to deal with terrorism. I hate what this administration has done to our armed services. I am sick of rightwing bashing of liberal support for troops.
Rightwing support = Halliburton profits.
Liberal support = VA benefits, decent pay, proper equipment and a fucking plan to accomplish a sane mission in the reality-based universe.
Quick poll, please. Noogy is a troll. Do not feed. Would you rather comments like his were yanked so as not to hijack? Or can you refrain from wasting time and space on this jackass?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 42
How ’bout Halloween stuff/ideas? Lots of fun creative people around here?
What to do about this Q-Poll? Hmmmm…
Oh, I know!
Donate to Lamont and get thee to Connecticut to volunteer and GOTV!!!
I’m in for another $50 to Lamont right now.
Stop clutching your pearls and start taking action.
The democratic process.
noogy @ 52
I vote for yank. It ups my bona fides as a liberal bitch.
noogy at 45 — because he represents a very left-wing state, and for me, strike one was his cloture vote on Alito. He has, time and time again, served as the “bi-partisan cover and pivot point” for the Republican agenda in Congress. Coming out and wagging his finger at everyone and telling them that criticizing the lack of planning by the Bush Administration in Iraq was unpatriotic — that was strike two. But strike three was a biggie — the “it’s just a short ride to another hospital for a rape victim to try and find plan B contraceptives” from Joe was the final straw. He pretends to be one thing with public speeches, while acting completely differently in procedural voting. And that is unacceptable. And in Connecticut, in all likelihood, a Democratic candidate was going to take the seat, so a primary was not as critical there as, say, Nebraska where Ben Nelson has to represent the much more right-leaning interests of his consituents or elsewhere, where that is also the case.
It was a matter of calculation politically. But it is also a matter of honor — Joe Lieberman is a lying, weaselly, egomaniac, who is out for one thing, and one thing only: enhancing the “Mr. BiPartisanship” reputation that he covets. He will kiss any ass, including Karl Rove’s to maintain that title in his own mind. Regardless of the consequences to the Democratic party as a whole.
And if you cannot see that from his endorsement of John Bolton from earlier in the week, then you need to wake up.
Christy, in line with this thread, tomorrow we might pull up a chair and talk a little about the heroes in our lives who made a difference–teachers, clergy, family, friends, neighbors, public figures, whomever.
ummm…….Marie Claire of all pubs helps shed light on the travesty Bush/Rummy and especially JOE hath wrought:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..32051.html
KristineJoy–Great idea! Yeah, Halloween and elections–truly a scary time. And who was it who once dressed up in a blue leotard to which she pinned tampons and Kotex and trick or treated as Picasso’s Blue Period?
I’m going to break my own rule.
Noogy, if you were at a party and making snide comments about someone else’s conversations or the decor or, well, anything, just to get attention, like you are here, no one would talk to you. Democratic process my ass.
Mommybrain—personally, skimming right past them takes absolutely none of my time.
Mommybrain @ 49, yank; hard.
Well, noogy, if you have a point or better yet an argument why not make it instead of dropping empty little lines. Are you for the War in Iraq? If so why? Are you for Holy Joe? If so why? If you have such disdain for political action and discussion, why are you here?
Stay the course. This one is a real Corker.
-GSD
Hugh @ 42
You’re right, Hugh, that’s why I referred to it as the latest phase in the Rethug meltdown. I’ve been seeing something about a “secret plan” to win – I guess they’re taking a page out of Nixon’s playbook (again).
mommybrain at 58 — I’ve noticed that it is always the rude, attention-seeking assholes that scream “you’re censoring me!” the moment someone calls them on being an asshole. Maybe they should get out more and learn some social skills. What do you think?
noogy @
45
That was Lieberman’s choice, being unable to abide the will of the Connecticut Democratic primary voters.
As for ‘alienation’, the only evidence I see of that is Lieberman alienating himself from the Democratic portion of his electorate…Go Joe!
Well, you could start your own blog if you don’t like the proctological exam that you see here.
;>)
I’d kick his ass just for the fun of it.
Mommybrain @
58
Wrong country, you are so "pre the Military Commissions Act." Joe voted for it.
kristinejoy @ 50
Ooooh, veedy, veddy, sceddy, kids…
Jon Lovitz did this hilarious skit on SNL that for some reason I can’t get out my mind these days. From DVDReview:
“Lovitz is at his best when doing over-the-top characters, such as Mephistopheles the Devil in a spoof of The Peoples Court with the late, great Phil Hartman playing Judge Wapner. In this sketch, Lovitz is dressed in a red satin Halloween costume that could have been purchased at Party City; the fact that he stays totally in character is what makes him so funny. He’s just so serious about being the devil; there are never any sly winks to the camera or other evidence that he is laughing about the character on the inside, and that is what makes him so funny.”
Maybe there’s a YouTube floating around out there…
wondering @ 57
Okay, that is way cool! My daughter is looking for ideas. Last year she won her Jr. High costume contest. She came as a Twister Game. We wrapped the actually Twister plastic sheet around her like a gown, taped her in it, with colored sticker dots on her face and the spinner around her neck. Her friend called her the Twister Bride.
Of course, this lead to unintended ice-breakers: “Right-Hand Red!” Sigh.
noogy,
What makes you think each and every person on this thread hasn’t worked for progressive candidates across the country?
If you would spend some time looking at ActBlue and our campaign threads, you might find that there has been a huge amount of participation.
We’ve alienated Lieberman??? He’s my Senator and it’s my right to tell him I don’t like the job he’s doing. Sorry it doesn’t fit with Chuck Schumer’s game plan. But I forgot that the DLC doesn’t want the dirty grassroots messing with his Dem party.
Joe is not entitled to a fourth term. The Dem voters of CT fired him. If he wins he wins because of Republicans, Bechtel et al and people like you who don’t think we have a right to elect representatives who truly represent us.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 42
Here in the Bay Area the autumn harvest is in full glory…
is it too late in the year for autumn recipies for, say:
(1) road munchies – for the door to door campaigners
(2) dining for dollars – home fundraiser munchies…
(3) “war room” food – stuff you can leave out all day for grazing while working. Criteria: no utensils needed, not junk food, staff that eat on day #2 or #3 (after serving) won’t get sick(er).
noogy @ 16
Best time and money I’ve ever spent. Do you think the traction and paradigm shift we’ve seen has been becausem Joe WON the primary? I don’t think so.
Leaving in a few to go canvass in CT for the weekend. Suggest you do the same.
Don’t lose hope firepups. One bad poll does not mean anything.
OT with apologies: breaking news…
Alert to Ohioans: check & double-check voting process every step of the way, EVERYWHERE in the state!
There are gremlins about(?) Summit County OH election officials found absentee ballots to be FULL of errors – only on the 2nd page of the 2-page ballot.
*adjusts hat & reaches for extra box of foil*
Officials claim a few faulty ballots were already used by people who voted early at the BoE, but that none were sent out. They have ordered replacement, corrected ballots from the printer, and put on extra staff, in order to get the ballots (numbering about 22,000) out ASAP; but they admit this unexpected snafu will make the ballots late getting to those who requested them.
http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/15805029.htm
noogy, I can see you’ve never been to Nebraska. Ben Nelson D-NE for example votes to the RIGHT of Joe, because he’s from NEBRASKA. Noogy, Joe is from Connecticut.
“gone so pervers”
I’m such an idiot.
“so perverse”
Christy Hardin Smith @
20
That’s it. I’m taking away your troll food right now…even though I agree with every word and every point rise in your blood pressure with you.
Plus, I will never, ever have to hear “Democrat Joe Lieberman” again.
Never. That’s worth all the time and money right there. :)
John Casper @ 10:38 am – did you inadvertently leave open a bold tag in your comment # 67?
kirk murphy @ 71
boy, howdy. August bay fog is a distant memory.
noogy, none of those other 30 Dems gives the Shrub the slack to claim he’s “bi-partisan,” the way Lieberman4Lieberman does.
OT LieberTrolls knew exactly when the Q-Poll was going to be released, that’s how come they just all happened to show up this morning.
Sally @ 60
Second!
Christy has already said all that needs to be said, and beautifully.
The fact that he’s only goaded into more nonsense by being treated fairly speaks volumes.
He’s had his 15.
Anyone who has read this blog for more than a day or so knows that no one who comments on a regular or semi-regular basis is unable or unwilling to debate any position that comes to the fore. Why, then, is there such a big to-do when someone puts up a comment that strays off the reservation? Opposing points of view do not put the brakes on anyone’s GOTV efforts, as near as I can tell, but these constant attempts to silence or shame those not singing the same song, in the same key, is turning this place into an echo chamber/mutual admiration society. I say that as someone who has been too busy of late to comment regularly, and who has seen a big change in the tone and atmosphere here, whether or not anyone wants to admit it.
Not all people who have a different opinion are here to disrupt, and no minds are changed about progressive candidates or issues when the response to opposing points of view is a swift kick in the teeth.
And now, you all can give me the Lord of the Flies treatment.
close bold
Just got an e-mail reminder that MoveOn will be doing phonebanking — that you could do from home this weekend. Egregious signed up for it — and so can you! :)
Anne @
82
Anne, these are not innocent “off the reservation” remarks about for example the best Iraq exit strategy.
These are well designed KILLSHOTS at Ned’s campaign. We let these go, Ned’s campaign will begin to wither. People will stop giving him money. People will stop volunteering. All, because of bogus poll results put out by a poll that is bought and paid for by Joe.
[/i] italics off (hopefully).
OT- Driving home today I listened to Rush for an hour.
Entire program was about “Cut and Run Republicans” – Rush imploring his listeners to put aside their disgust and vote against Pelosi. Comical.
f5 to remove italics, folks.
Anne at 82 — we have less than three weeks until the election. Has it occurred to everyone who is griping about the Lamont campaign, the Democrats, how we run this blog, whatever, that we ought to push off the navel gazing until we’ve sprinted through to the finish line and see what the results are in the end? Because I’ve been living on five hours or less of sleep for weeks now — between blogging and conference calls and working on articles and researching and the rest of my life…with laundry getting done somewhere around 1 am some nights. And it has been the same for Jane. We’re trying to work our asses off, not just here on the blog, but behind the scenes where we can, and its exhausting. So if things aren’t as loose or cheery or whatever at the moment, it’s probably because we’re working nonstop, trying to squeeze in a little life around the edges, and just as worried about getting out the vote as everyone reading here.
A little slack from everyone — and some understanding — would be more than appreciated, today especially, by me. Someone wants to bitch to me about what a shit job I’m doing, fine — but do it via e-mail, so I can get to it as I have time and it doesn’t get lost in comments as I’m running around taking care of family business here and there this weekend.
OT:
Go visit TBogg for a good chuckle.
Islamoaquaterrorists
[…]
In fact, ever since those blabby treasonous bastards over at the New York Times started shooting off their stupid mouths about ‘water boarding this’, and ‘water boarding that’, our enemies have begun breeding a super-race of gilled Islamoaquaterrorists (or al Aquada) who will be smuggled into our country through our porous southern border (primarily South Padre Island) where they will mix in with Spring Breakers before wreaking havoc on our waterways.
[…]
:-)
urban pirate at 87 — apparently Rush and Glenn Reynolds have been having an ongoing fued this past week about whether the Republicans are sucking and to blame for their misfortunes, or whether Glenn (who proffered something to that effect) was to blame for people thinking that Republicans ought to be to blame (Rush’s thesis, at one point). You can’t pay for that sort of entertainment… hehehehehe
I agree with John Casper. Comments are about taking out any positive feeling about Ned…ie what a waste of time/money/passion, etc.
-
Screw that! In the first place I’ve ‘HAD ENOUGH!’ and I ain’t even begun yet. Our sage Mr. Berra has it:
“It ain’t over till it’s OVER.” PERIOD.
There’s no ‘camplaigning’ in elections BEFORE the polls close. Leave the camplaigning to Jozo and his minions. They’ll have plenty of reason on Nov. 8.
GO NED!
Anne @ 82
Anne, noogy’s a troll and I suspect you know it. Your comment, on the other hand, is written with thoughtfulness, respect, and honesty.
There’s a difference.
At times there are opposing views here which are treated in a civil manner and at times there are obnoxious comments which contribute nothing to the discourse. Most of us know the difference.
Christy
I think there is some value to the conversation. I had concerns over Ned’s campaign and dab helped set me straight.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 89
Christy Hardin Smith @ 91
here’s Salon.com War Room’s synopsis of that squabble.
LindaR @ 52
Best response yet, LindaR :~)
The only problem with yanking the troll’s comments is that you can then end up with a lot of responses without the original, wondering what everyone is so upset about. Not much of a problem here if people use the “Quote this Comment” feature (great feature, btw), but over at TPM Cafe you can really wonder what happened when the original comment goes away.
Christy Hardin Smith @
42
Hi Christy,
Maybe a topic we should be thinking about is the long-term strategy. Not that we should stop with the rush to Nov 7, but just to see how it fits in the overall scheme of things. Long-term goals such as establishing an infrastructure, connecting with a committed base of volunteers, extending the ‘organization’, getting to know one another across the country, establishing issues, creating grass-roots stuctures for selecting, contributing to and working for candidates outside of our locations to empower us regardless of who/what our ‘own’ congrescritter is. That’d be some nice perspective on why the NedRace is so important but not the only thing. And here’s a morning glory, too.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 84
I’m signed up too.
btw, all, Donita and Spin I’m In are up and running hot…
real progressives wear leather. others wear noogy-hyde.
Thanks for playing Danny Boy. I am used to a version that is much sadder. Sometimes old songs are set to a happy happy harmony that undermines the power of the melody. In particular the beginning of the refrain, with the high G, is almost always done with a minor harmony. I am finding some of the old Scottish songs sounding much better stripping away some of happy face and returning to their original force. Imm said I was a doer but maybe he meant dour [little Scottish joke].
Anne,
I think the key is the willingness to debate. Putting up a couple of provocative comments and then walking away with out trying to explain them or back them up isn’t debate.
punaise @ 101, up with leather; down with noogy-hyde. Love it.
Christy Hardin Smith @
91
Now, that’s a mutual proctological exam worth a Kodak moment.
;>)
Leaving for CT now. Keep the faith (and pass the ammunition) pups.
Sorry about your loss, Christy. (btw, you looked stunning on Cspan. :) )
Raven at 95 — I’m not saying conversation isn’t useful. Hell, I’ve been havign conversations all morning with folks in the comments who disagree with me, trying to explain my side of things. But, to be perfectly honest, I do not have time today to sit down and have a complete navel-gazing conversation about how this blog is or is not running to everyone’s satisfaction. I’m exhausted, I’m dealing with some very emotional relatives at the moment, I have to juggle a buttload of stuff in my schedule — and I just can’t do the usual “blog mom” thing that I do to get everyone as close to being back on the same page as I can muster today. I just do not have the energy to do it, and that’s the truth of it.
So, what I’m saying I suppose is, back off today and leave it for another day if it can wait — because I am at my limits at the moment.
egregious @ 102
it’s a bit early for Dewar’s
punaise—if I said I think I love you, would you understand that it was just in a Steve Audio kind of way?
Do you like tracklighting too?
RBG @ 109
sure – do you have any suggestions for adjusting the track lighting in our kitchen? :~)
LOL, kristinejoy. no dim bulbs today.
I hear ya, take some time for yourself.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 107
punaise @ 112
Lighting up our lives, you are a boone to have around.
Anne 82
Appreciate your comments.
Have rec’d the LotF treatment myself for backing Sherrod Brown, IMO a PROVEN TRUE BLUE PROGRESSIVE, by the way.
(based on overall voting record, causes for which he has been a long-time supporter, articulate voice in Congress, activity level, leadership, . . .)
Not fun & not appreciated to be slammed, but no harm to me because I know my support for him is based on solid ground, & those who swatted me upside the head did so in good conscience, because of logically stated differences in opinion. (Now, in the interest of avoiding another firestorm re: Sherrod, I believe neither he, NOR I for SURE, condone torture in any way, shape, or form. I strongly believe Sherrod’s vote on that odious bill recently was a tactical one, for better or worse. I’ll try to bite my tongue & not mention it again.)
Anne, I wasn’t aware you had gotten “swatted” unfairly. (in my book, that would mean in a way that serves to stifle legitimate discussion) I hope you will continue being open with your opinions. This is a terrific community, but it won’t stay that way unless it tolerates open discussion.
Current troll bits today seem different, somehow – not just contrary opinion, but clear desire to disrupt discourse. Especially with Christy’s and others’ thorough, clearly presented answers, some commenters did indeed appear to be purely disruptive trolls merely out to stir up the lake for no particular reason other than spite. Especially nasty & unwelcome with Christy facing such a difficult time…
Anne, your comments are always welcome. I enjoy reading them.
How to end my side of this? – um, er, I sorta like entry by John Casper at 83 “close bold” *g*
Adie @ 115
Partisan
;>)
die bold, stay pretty
Mommybrain @ 49
mommybrain, when I look at troll activities I look for two sets of consequences:
1) content
2) group dynamic/ group emotional tone
Way back in Usenet chatrooms, observers were writing about trolls’ meta-effect – the consequences for the discussion community at large resulting from whatever apparent “content” was sticking up above the troll iceberg.
The trolls participate to disrupt the process of our interaction (and our social and group cohesion). The putative content of any troll’s post is the “shiny object” used to divert our cognitive attention away from the activity at hand.
Trolls use what (for them) are cognitively irrelvant statements in order to disrupt our function. If we were a baking group, we’d be “trolled” by someone giving bizzaro world recipies.
With this in mind, my personal belief in intellectual tolerance is irrelevant here. The troll’s participation has the function of preventing our exchange of ideas in furtherance of our work here.
FDL and EarthFirst! are very different groups – many of those here with law enforcement backgrounds will likely second that opinion. :)
But FDL and EarthFirst! are identical in our group structure – both groups are open in structure. Anyone who wants to can – and does – participate.
Both groups have quite overt ways of excluding obvious disruptions and those who generate them.
Both groups are also quite vulnerable to more sophisiticated forms of deliberate infiltration and disruption. Anyone who desires to disrupt either group only needs to sufficiently discordant to divert the group’s attention, yet appear to be accomodating enough that – at any given moment – the group doesn’t expel them.
With this sort of process disruption, sending repeated “probes” (commenters at fdl, “volunteers” coming to EarthFirst!) allows interested parties to learn enough about group values and norms to know how much divergence from the group will allow sustained disruption without causing expulsion.
These techniques are powerful because they rely on emotional input to disrupt group function. Most people – let alone most groups – are fortunate enough not to experience their world in terms of group process and object relations, so the lag in cognitve recognition of the affective (emotional) techniques used against the group may be delayed.
Here at fdl the group has demonstrated the capacity to hurt – and possibly defeat – a servant of very powerful wealth centers with a track of overt oppostion to progressive valaues and popular representation.
To put it another way, fdl has done more to threaten our economic oligarchy and their servants in the political class than EarthFirst! is doing right now.
Congratulations – and condolences.
We progressives have such passion about the devastation Bush and his masters bring to our communities and world that our emotional valence [valence = intensity of a state, regardless of positive or negative] easily fuels disruption of the manner in which we interact with each other.
The trolls serve their masters by distracting us with a discordant fact long enough to distract our fine minds to go into cognitive (thought-based) mode in response to whatever they’ve written. We then stop doing our work together.
Pull the chain on the fucking trolls.
The anonymous servants of those who create authoritarian Bush rule are not here to explore our freedoms.
The trolls are here to serve Lieberman and those who already acted to destroy our freedom and Republic.
No mercy for trolls until after Election Day would be fine by me. Seems like fdl has too much work to do indulge the trolls’ mock concern about freedom of expression.
HotFlash @ 98
Lovely pic!
urban pirate @ 106
Yeah, SuperChristy looks good in CSpan-dex.
P J Evans @ 118
Yes!
punaise @ 117
and leave no paper trail…
Could people – just IGNORE THE TROLL – get back to the original discussion at hand?
I sent Kevin Tillman”s letter – to EVERYONE on my email list.
I printed out a few copies to give to friends/neighbors who are FOOTBALL FANS.
DO SOMETHING!
Stop the Troll Gossip – IGNORE – Do something for Democracy while you still can!
“If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is certain that you will create a despotic government to be your master.
The wise despot,therefore, maintains among his subjects a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual.”
– Frank Herbert
kristinejoy @ 121
All I ever wanted was to leave a good-looking habeas corpus…
TPM Election Central has Zogby Int, 19 Oct, showing Lieberman at 49% and Lamont at 43%. Nothing showing for the other Republican.
OT and fyi– really good stuff on cspan2 wrt military commissions, habeas corpus, etc.
GWU Law Review symposium live.
kirk murphy @ 118
mommybrain, when I look at troll activities I look for two sets of consequences: 1) content 2) group dynamic/ group emotional tone Way back in Usenet chatrooms, observers were writing about trolls’ meta-effect – the consequences for the discussion community at large resulting from whatever apparent "content" was sticking up above the troll iceberg. The trolls participate to disrupt the process of our interaction (and our social and group cohesion). The putative content of any troll’s post is the "shiny object" used to divert our cognitive attention away from the activity at hand. Trolls use what (for them) are cognitively irrelvant statements in order to disrupt our function. If we were a baking group, we’d be "trolled" by someone giving bizzaro world recipies. With this in mind, my personal belief in intellectual tolerance is irrelevant here. The troll’s participation has the function of preventing our exchange of ideas in furtherance of our work here. FDL and EarthFirst! are very different groups – many of those here with law enforcement backgrounds will likely second that opinion. :) But FDL and EarthFirst! are identical in our group structure – both groups are open in structure. Anyone who wants to can – and does – participate. Both groups have quite overt ways of excluding obvious disruptions and those who generate them. Both groups are also quite vulnerable to more sophisiticated forms of deliberate infiltration and disruption. Anyone who desires to disrupt either group only needs to sufficiently discordant to divert the group’s attention, yet appear to be accomodating enough that – at any given moment – the group doesn’t expel them. With this sort of process disruption, sending repeated "probes" (commenters at fdl, "volunteers" coming to EarthFirst!) allows interested parties to learn enough about group values and norms to know how much divergence from the group will allow sustained disruption without causing expulsion. These techniques are powerful because they rely on emotional input to disrupt group function. Most people – let alone most groups – are fortunate enough not to experience their world in terms of group process and object relations, so the lag in cognitve recognition of the affective (emotional) techniques used against the group may be delayed. Here at fdl the group has demonstrated the capacity to hurt – and possibly defeat – a servant of very powerful wealth centers with a track of overt oppostion to progressive valaues and popular representation. To put it another way, fdl has done more to threaten our economic oligarchy and their servants in the political class than EarthFirst! is doing right now. Congratulations – and condolences. We progressives have such passion about the devastation Bush and his masters bring to our communities and world that our emotional valence [valence = intensity of a state, regardless of positive or negative] easily fuels disruption of the manner in which we interact with each other. The trolls serve their masters by distracting us with a discordant fact long enough to distract our fine minds to go into cognitive (thought-based) mode in response to whatever they’ve written. We then stop doing our work together. Pull the chain on the fucking trolls. The anonymous servants of those who create authoritarian Bush rule are not here to explore our freedoms. The trolls are here to serve Lieberman and those who already acted to destroy our freedom and Republic. No mercy for trolls until after Election Day would be fine by me. Seems like fdl has too much work to do indulge the trolls’ mock concern about freedom of expression.
‘Bears’ repeating!
I’m jumping ahead of reading all the comments to answer CHS’s request for suggestions for tomorrow’s topic.
In honor of your great-uncle and Pat Tilman, I suggest a pull up a chair topic of everyday heroes for tomorrow. Who were your quiet chosen heroes, not those urged upon you by media, but the ones whose examples show you the way through hard times?
Kirk Murphy, thanks for your eloquent comment. There’s a very fine line between troll and not and I try not to cross it; I also think it’s a good idea to air it out once in a while, to be sure that as a community we’re clear about where it is.
The discussions here are almost always respectful, We’re all on edge- it seems like a permanent state these days – and we all like to talk, all have been around the block a few times. I value the diversity, I hate the flames.
I’m sorry for your loss, Christy. Our active military, and our veterans, deserve much better than they’re getting in terms of support for themselves and their families.
I just saw, via dKos, this story about military families at Camp Pendleton increasingly having to rely on food donations to get by. That is a disgrace. My father served for 20 years, and he didn’t get the lifetime health care for himself and his spouse that the government promised him; but he wasn’t treated as badly as the troops are today, either. We need to do better.
kirk murphy @
118
great analysis, kirk murphy.
sometimes FDL is Mirth First
kirk murphy @
71
Yeah – I was going to suggest a food topic as well! How about fall veggies, or crockpot recipes for when everyone is busy on campaigns?
My condolences on your loss, Christy.
Kathie
oooo, I double second crockpot recipes!
Christy,
Thanks for the beautiful song.
darkblack 116
“Partisan”? why yes, actually.
Guilty as charged – so far, anyway. Happy to accept the verdict. b.e.c.a.u.s.e – Experience tells me I’m right on this one, based on long history watching what the guy DOES, not just what he says.
I’s scientist by training, married to same. Therefore, hard to convince either of us any other way. We’ve lived here over 30 years, & seen the career develop. The guy’s a legit. progressive, always has been.
If the situation changes such that we lose confidence in him, I’ll let you guys know. Deal?
That Tillman thing should be read by EVERYONE!
Adie @
135
I’m just teasing, Adie…Riffing on the ‘unmutual accusations’ around FDL of late.
‘In your heart, you know Clinton is to blame’
;>)
The Mideast era for the United States is over. Many of the same mistakes the U.S.were made in Vietnam, and vowed never to make again, have been made in Iraq. President Bush and Congress have squandered a decade with American blood and treasure. No one wants to make the comparison to Vietnam but here it is:
(1) Both Iraq and South Vietnam were situated in bad neighborhoods where their neighbors were overtly hostile to democracy.
(2) American troops are holding and dying for the same ground day after day; not actually a morale builder and discipline maker. Similar to Vietnam
(3) The President and the military brass have lost their way and react instead of preparing for the future. Remember LBJ frustration at not being able to control the situation.
(4) Overall, the American people have lost their belief in the War and popular support is gone.
This will be the biggest embarassment in American history and the Middle East will now become the domain of Iran and Syria. The two countries we wanted to isolate and defeat by proxy in the first place.
It was blunder and we now must figure out a new way to conduct foreign and the effective use of military power.
Danny L. McDaniel
Lafayette, Indiana
db 137
thanks for that lil’ postscript.
figured, from yer nice ;-)
& t’was legit opining even w/o same, no?
I AM a flaming partisan, especially this year*g*
LOVE your art, BTW! Always look fwd to it.