
I think tonight would be a good time to sit back and reflect. Let's take a deep breath and size up our surroundings coming into this election. Things are starting to get very interesting here, but there's one thing in particular that I'll be watching in the weeks ahead, and that's the growing conflict between the GOP's Pet Gays and the Party's loyal base of evangelical Christians.
The GOP is in full rout. I think that's abundantly clear to anyone who's paying attention. They are under seige from every side and from within. And frankly, I love the smell of frightened, desperate Reich Wingers in the morning. It smells like…victory.
What's interesting to me, and what I talked about for a bit on The Young Turks this morning is that the Republican Party is now being forced to make a profound and potentially life-changing choice. They're going to have to own up to their Dirty Little Secret Number One, and that's the fact that they have thousands of token gays ranged all the way up through the highest ranks of the party infrastructure. The loftiest positions of power in the Party are occupied by gay Republican operatives. Ken Mehlman, anyone? Hello?
The Mark Foley scandal appears to be the worst thing that's happened to gay Republicans since CBS cancelled Martha Stewart's version of "The Apprentice". La Cage Aux Foley has alerted the Talibangelicals to the fact that their party of choice is crawling with teh gays. And Daddy Dobson and his minions are NOT HAPPY about that.
Here's oily, snake-handling preacherman Donald Wildmon on the topic of gay Republicans:
Moreover, Wildmon calls on the Republican Party leadership to promptly purge the "subversive" gay staffers.
"They oughtta fire every one of 'em," Wildmon told me in his trademark Mississippi drawl. "I don't care if they're heterosexual or homosexual or whatever they are. If you've got that going on, that subverts the will of the people; that subverts the voters. That is subversive activity. There should be no organization among staffers in Washington of that nature, and if they find out that they're there and they're a member, they oughtta be dismissed el pronto."
Okay, Marryin' Sam, hang on jest a cotton-pickin' minute, there. A "gay staffer" kind of can't be "heterosexual or homosexual or whatever they are". I mean, that's the definition. The word "gay" kind of implies "non-heterosexual". But of course, Reverend, I understand that this might be a little too much nuance for a sheep-porking hillbilly like you.
It looks like it's going to come down to this: The religious extremists of the Reich Wing are agitating for the removal of all homosexuals from the Repugnican halls of power. The power-loving "Velvet Mafia" in the GOP want to leave their positions high atop the Republican heirarchy about like they want to eat broken glass. Who will win the battle for the "soul" (*cough!*) of the GOP? (Right, okay, everyone knows that Republicans have no soul, but for the sake of argument, can we just let that statement ride?)
According to this piece by Sidney Blumenthal in the Guardian, the migration of Rapture-baiters away from Teh Gay Old Party may already have begun:
As Christians battle Sodomites under the crashing Republican big tent, several high-wire acts have fallen to earth. Last week Bob Ney, of Ohio, pleaded guilty to bribery, caught in the web of Republican super-lobbyist Jack Abramoff. This week the wacky Curt Weldon of Pennsylvania, renowned for his personal hunt for WMD in Iraq, came under investigation for corrupt practices; the FBI has also raided his lobbyist daughter.
At the White House Karl Rove's assistant, Susan Ralston – formerly Abramoff's assistant – resigned for facilitating favours for and from Rove and others, including Ken Mehlman, Republican national committee chairman. This week another Republican congressman, John Doolittle of California, announced he was turning cooperative witness in the federal investigation.
The concatenation of scandals is shattering the last shards of "revolution". "Reform" has metastasised into the Abramoff scandal, "culture war" into the Foley cover-up. And Hastert has transmuted from omnipotent Brezhnev into ghostly Chernenko, presiding over the final decrepit stage.
Nice. Guy's got a real way with words, doesn't he?
But really, I can't think of two groups I would rather see go head-to-head for some seriously brutal, bloody, ball-busting political combat than the Talibangelicals and the denizens of Uncle Tom's Closet. Every casualty of that war is a victory for progressives. I mean, think about it, as Frank Rich wrote on Sunday:
Cultural conservatives who fell for the G.O.P.’s pious propaganda now look like dupes. Tonight on “60 Minutes,” David Kuo, a former top official in the administration’s faith-based initiatives program, is scheduled to discuss his new book recounting how evangelical supporters were privately ridiculed as “nuts” in the White House. If they have any self-respect, they’ll exact their own revenge.
We must hope as well that this crisis will lead to a repudiation of the ritual targeting of gay people for sport at the top levels of the Republican leadership in and out of the White House.
Right. We'll see about that, Frank. The Christ, Inc. crowd aren't known for their penetrating political insight. Already, we're hearing that their reaction to David Kuo's book is to demonize and attack Kuo rather than face up to the truth that they've been done over by the Republicans.
We should also bear in mind that a lot of these Gay Republicans are among their party's most effective operators at opposition research and the kind of dirty dealings that have helped the GOP retain their choke-hold on the government since 1994. Do James Dobson, Tony Perkins, Fred Phelps, and Donald Wildmon really want these people targeting them for elimination? When Matt Drudge is posting GOP talking points before Ken Mehlman has even thought them up, and when so much of the Reich Wing Stink Machine seems to be staffed and controlled by the "Velvet Mafia", would you want to be a fundamentalist preacher with skeletons in your closet?
I have to say, though, the resulting carnage could end up being absolutely delightful. Every body that falls in this field of combat is an advantage to our side. Ultimately, we want the Republican party so broken and fragmented that Grover Norquist could drown it in the bathtub.
And it certainly should make for some interesting political theatrics between now and the election. Pass the popcorn, y'all! I wouldn't miss this showdown for the world!
Related posts:





Spotlight
Rootz!
A zero for the land down under.
Ned! ROOTZ!!
TRex dahlin’!
Whoooooooooo-hooooooooooooooooo!!
If you want to see a Talibangelical’s head spin round and round I would suggest you re-frame the story of “The Good Samaritan” for today and call it “The Good Homosexual.” Makes ‘em nuts.
I’m seeing this all over the Blogosphere today.
Why have we chosen this day to celebrate? It is not over. Any celebration before November serves only to relax the GOTV.
Sorry for the buzzkill, but it’s too early.
TROOTZ!
“Uncle Tom’s Closet”? Love it.
And Hastert has transmuted from omnipotent Brezhnev into ghostly Chernenko, presiding over the final decrepit stage.
Hastert minus Delay equals Fredo Corleone.
-GSD
Trex… “And how come no one is willing to talk about Condi?” — are you claiming [shudder] that POTUS’ girlfriend is.. gay?!? The horror. What will we tell the children?
Balrog @ 7
There is no celebration, but an awareness that the massive machine that was built to destroy us has been smoking and spitting out bolts and belts for some time now.
They are under siege from all fronts–lets keep loading the catapults folks.
-GSD
TRex – (or Mr T-Rex as I understand you prefer to be addressed) – there is nothing better than seeing hypocrisy get caught out. A leftie pastor once told me the story about the very proper lady who after visiting his church for the first time. allowed that she would consider becoming a member but there too many hypocrites there. He replied that it would be fine, they always had room for one more.
He replied that it would be fine, they always had room for one more.
HA!!
How do the high ranking gay Republicans work with people in their party who spout such horrid statements about homosexuals? Something about that word integrity wouldn’t allow me to work with, much less work for, someone who doesn’t respect me as an individual but would rather use me as a political pawn to motivate some of the worst emotions in people.
I can’t imagine the soul twisting one would have to do to be a gay republican. It must be exhausting.
GSD @ 10
And Li’l Ricky Santorum is Frodo Goin’-Home. Buuuuuuuh-bye!
GSD @ 12
‘The GOP is in full rout. I think that’s abundantly clear to anyone who’s paying attention. They are under seige from every side and from within. And frankly, I love the smell of frightened, desperate Reich Wingers in the morning. It smells like…victory.’
Sorry, that’s all the casual visitors need to see to plan a long weekend out of town w/o voting.
Save it. We’ve all worked too hard to abandon the GOTV now.
grs @ 15
It never ceases to amaze me how well sticking one’s fingers in one’s ears and humming loudly works for a lot of Americans. In this case, the Americans in question just happen to be gay.
TRex, none of my LGBT buds even understand the Rethug Log Cabin Peeps…
I think I could, but am saddened that they won’t or can’t{?) just move over to us.
Saw Sammon tonite– he seems more mournful than motivated.
jest sayin’ and asking.
TRex @ 17
Yes, he’s made his contribution to society (thank you dan Savage) now, he can disappear.
grs @ 15
For Gay Republicans, cognitive dissonance is a way of life. They’re all telling themselves that they’re special. They’re not like those other dirty nasty gays. They’re rich! They’re exceptional! They don’t care what happens to other gays as long as they remain in the political catbird seat!
All that could well be crashing to a close soon.
Halleluia!
GSD @
10
Fredo Busholini?
I bet Mehlman and David Drier are really off their game these days…….
Poor chaps.
-GSD
Great news!
McCain Suicidal
GSD @
10
Denny plus Hastert = Mr. Creosote
TRex!!!! xxoo I’m sorry I didn’t get a chance to listen to your radio interview… and how am I? (you asked in a email) ok, except that academic duties are coming on hard.
BUT, I am so much celebrating the recognition that you are getting for your fine writing, here and elsewhere… remember, I “knew” you when you were just the trex guy and the science junkie…
luv ya!!!!!!!
Longtime lurker. This is a great post. I completely agree with the assessment that gay Republicans believe they are special. The other thing to consider regarding the cognitive dissonance of belonging to a party that hates you is that the members of a minority group often have the most prejudice against the group to which they belong. This is true in the gay community.
Senator Larry Craig…. What’s with the gay bashing?
Video clips are in the link.
If Craig is forced to resign, it puts added importance on the Idaho Governor’s race, for which I could find no polling results.
Idaho Sen. Larry Craig Denies Allegations of Same-Sex Affairs
By Jill Kuraitis, 10-17-06
Just one more scandal Mr. Hastert-Creosote it’s only wafer thin.
-GSD
Lagunatic @ 28
This is also true among (some) women who make to the special food treats at the top of the academic pile- we call them “Queen Bees”.
TRex, what is the basis for your insinuation that Condi Rice is gay?
I believe Idaho has a Democratic Governor, Freudenthal.
He’s set to walk to victory.
-GSD
Well….yeah….but they are not who holds the power, are they? It’s the good church-goin’, money-givin’, God-fearin’ rank-and-file that are noticing that something sure stinks out behind the parsonage. Seems to me that the ‘leaders’ of the evangelical right-wing movement are desperately trying to avoid being seen as the source of that God-awful stink and are—as usual—trying to deflect the good people’s attention. Fat chance.
This is too obvious and too simple to sail over the righteous’ bowed heads. They get enough of a whiff of that stink and they’re likely to, well, just stay home and stop writing checks.
They’re already mad as hell about being lied into Iraq. Ask ‘em, any one you happen to meet on the street or in a pew. They do NOT like the Iraq situation and they want us out: now! This stinking wink-wink-nudge-nudge-say-no-more GOP gay situation, along with the I’ll-seduce-you-now-and-meet-me-on-your-eighteenth-birthday mess of slime, could very well be the last couple of straws. They think of themselves as proud, righteous, soldiers of the Lord, not money-bag sheep to be fleeced and tossed—and laughed at—until the next election. They could get Almighty pissed about all of this.
Lagunatic @ 28
Maybe they’ll admit to being alcoholics and put an end to the whole mess. [/snark]
Valley Girl @ 31
I had that experience as well. I belong to an LGBT group where I have met a number of gay Republicans over the past few years and have seen a real change in their views of the Republican party. Most of them here in Southern California were very moderate and have shifted their allegiance. So, there is hope.
Balrog @
25
McCain, on a visit to Iowa to campaign for Republican congressional candidates, was asked his reaction to a potential Democratic takeover of the Senate in the November 7 elections.
“I think I’d just commit suicide,” McCain told reporters, to accompanying laughter from Republicans standing with him.
Senator, could we get that in writing, please?
Check out Froomkin
BOR asks this???
op99 @
32
Pam Spaulding told me. You would need to ask her for the details. I believe Pam on something like this. She would not invoke it lightly.
I believe
IdahoWyoming has a Democratic Governor, Freudenthal.This concerns Ohio’s 18th Congressional district:
Office supplier accuses Padgett’s firm of passing on its debt
What more can we expect from Bob Ney’s handpicked successor? (Does she golf?)
Been away from the computer all day. Does anyone know if c-span will be putting up the Lamont and Schlessinger tapdance on Lieberman show on their website?
Lagunatic @ 36
And, I hope you realized that I was endorsing your comment, from another perspective. You said it better that could have, tho I was mulling same over after having read TRex’s post. It was unexpected to me at first (idealist) to see that those who make it to power postitions against the odds are often the least helpful to others facing similar environments. Academia does not move very fast in changing the milieu (vis a vis women) but it looks like politics may have a faster turn around time!
Whether or not Condi is gay, why is she a Republican? A black woman from Birmingham (hell, an African American of any sex from anywhere) should not be a Rethug, it’s like joining the KKK. The prominent African American Rs are all very strange: Justice Thomas, Ken Blackwell and Allan Keyes to name but three.
Your life does depend on it.
Evening, Mr. TRex, crafter of fine Late Nite snacks. I’m sorry I missed your appearance on the air today. Is it available online?
petedownunder @ 44
Arm$trong William$ is a black, gay Republican who takes bribes from the White House to write pro-Bush columns. How’s that for ear-bleeding cognitive dissonance?
petedownunder @ 44
TRex @ 47
He hit the Trifecta.
TRex @ 39
Well, if Pam Spaulding had published it, I would go ask her. But she didn’t; you did; and that’s just not a good enough answer. A Republican colleague told me my senator was a lesbian, but I don’t believe that’s sufficient evidence (equals none) to publish it. That claim (indeed this entire post) is way beneath the standards I thought FDL stood for, and I hope you will retract it.
HeirofPatriots @ 42
This is the only info I have, so far:
http://nedlamont.com/blog/1853…..ebate-note
~~~Additional Debate Note
Good news. The event will be broadcast on CSPAN tomorrow evening as well. Awesome.~~~
I’m sure that http://nedlamont.com/blog will post additional details.
Valley Girl @ 43
I did understand your comment was an endorsement from a different perspective. I have been reading here long enough to have a pretty good feel for what the commenters are saying and you are virtually always positive.
Suzanne @
46
I have not been able to find it, but I may not be looking in the right places. I would love to hear it. I was so sleepy when the interview began that I think I may have said some fairly loopy things.
Thanks for the link Balrog.
How the fuck do you “adjust your tactics” to waterboarding? WH Press Corps allowed Snowblower to spout this crap too.
op99 @ 50
Not on your life. The onus is on her (Condi) to prove it isn’t true. That’s how the game is played at this stage. I’m not cutting any administration whores any slack, regardless. They all deserve whatever they get. Period.
John Casper @ 8:51 pm (#54)
Take scuba lessons?
I’ll take whatever gains we make on Nov. 7, but it is a never ending source of shame that what tipped the balance against the GOP was not the passage of torture legislation and the death of habeas corpus, but rather a sex scandal in the House. History is not going to be kind to us as a people…
TRex @ 55
I believe that’s what the Swiftboaters said. You have officially sunk to the level of Republicans.
you are virtually always positive– (Lagunatic) hehe- except on rare occasions or for rare posters… thanks!
Laguna Beach??? If so, I envy you… CA native here, but sadly, “away”.
Thanks, Valley Girl, at 8:50 pm. I’ve read some long blog post I forget where now (mydd?), and it sounds like a great debate. Can’t wait to see sore loser’s mic turned off.
Good night everyone.
Attack!!!!! Attack!!!! Attack!!!! (hmmm… where did I hear that first at FDL?) ;)
Balrog @ 18
I hardly think anyone who frequents this blog – or lurks for that matter – is going on vacation the next three weeks.
Hello, hello, FireSyncophants? Anybody home? Y’all OK with outing people we don’t even know for sure are gay?
op99 @ 58
Do you like losing, Op99? It’s common knowledge in Washington that Condi is gay. None of these closeted war-mongers are getting any slack or support from me. Sorry. Forget it. They are responsible for the deaths of more than a half million Iraqis. And you want me to tiptoe around their feelings because they lie about their personal lives?
Don’t make me laugh.
petedownunder @ 44
Three more:
Claude Allen – serial fraudster.
William H. Lash III – Murdered his autistic son, then commited suicide when the house was surrounded.
Colin Powell – Oh, just forget it.
;>)
My ex-brother-in-law was republican and clearly (to me) gay and he just hated himself. He had a series of special close friends that he would visit and shower with gifts, then come home and sit there brooding, eating and drinking to excess and watching USC football. He was on the extreme right, subscribing to Foreign Affairs and placing Kissinger as second only to Holy Regan Himself. He was so desperately trying to be strong and male and straight. He was so sad…
I’m going to have one helluva time explaining all this to my old man. I only found out this past year he’s had a bias against gays and has drunk of the ‘winger Kool-Aid on the “Gay Agenda”.
Now how am I going to explain to a 70-something man who was Naval intel that everything he’s known about his party’s objections to gays was smoke and mirrors to manipulate him — and it worked?
Going to have to get Mom to run interference, I think.
Oh, and it’s sycophants. One ‘n’.
Heading home.
op99 @ 58
I’m with op99. Condi has proved to be totally incompetent. Attack her for that. Her sexuality is totally irrelevant.
TRex @ 55
The onus is on her to prove it isn’t true? Excuse me. If I call your radio station manager and accuse you of stealing credit card numbers from people who donated during a fundraising drive – is the onus on you to prove you didn’t do it? Or is the onus on me – someone your station manager doesn’t know from Adam – to prove it IS true? Especially if your job would be in danger because of the accusation?
I think it’s the latter, and in some countries of the Western World, libel and slander charges may apply.
What a bunch of malarkey your answer was.
TRex @
69
How the heck do you post on the road?
TRex @ 64
It’s common knowledge in Denver that she fucked half of the Broncos when she was in college there. So which of the diametrically opposed “common knowledges” are we to credit? Don’t you think we can beat Republicans without making shit up? Do you think that helps our cause in any way? This post is frankly a worse reflection on you than anyone you name in it.
op99 — there has been frequent conjecture and speculation for years about Condi’s sexual preferences, even before Bush was sworn in back in 2001.
There isn’t enough data in this post to call this an outing. If we’d been given the names of partner(s) and dates, locations, other readily confirmable third-party data with two sources, I’d call that an outing.
TRex @ 22
I thought Joe Pitt, the closeted Republican congressional staffer in “Angels in America,” was probably a pretty good illustration of the toll that level of hypocrisy takes on one’s soul and one’s family.
Valley Girl @ 59
Glad you caught the pun. And, yes Laguna Beach. It is god’s country. I figured you were a native from your name. Which valley?
Rayne @
67
My dad was the coolest, most understanding guy when I was growing up. Now he’s so conservative I wonder if parasites haven’t colonized his brain.
hey Valley Girl, thanks for the NedTube links on the previous thread.
Balrog @ 7
I have to disagree with that. Maybe if it was last spring, you’d be right, but not at less than three weeks out. Allowing yourself to feel some hope and get excited is important for the big push, possibly most important then. It’s the cheer that goes up when the enemy lines start to break — it doesn’t make you want to lay down your sword and relax, it makes you want to charge after them!
Any casual visitors we lose because they assume it’s in the bag will be balanced by people who only really want to get on board if they think we’re going to win (and there are plenty of those.)
Lagunatic @ 76
^^^^^^^^^ Born and raised in Irvine, land of milk and honey
dab from CT @ 62
I gotta go to Richmond Indiana for most of next week, but I know a coffee shop with broadband and my daughter has a Mac in her dorm room. She’ll sneak me up.
I hear that Technorati is currently tracking 57.4 million blogs.
op99, I didn’t have a problem with the entie post, but I do think you raise a valid point here: “Well, if Pam Spaulding had published it, I would go ask her. But she didn’t; you did.”
Months ago when everyone “knew” that Fitz would indict Rove, Jason Leopold said he had anonymous sources that confirmed it. FDL had tons of comments asking why they wouldn’t confirm what everyone already knew, but neither Jane nor Christy would cave. If they had, any subsequent TM references to FDL would have been prefaced with “incorrectly predicted a Rove indictment.”
This situation isn’t identical, because TRex is naming his source. I would have thought the Larry Craig scoop would have been safer and better. Safer, because there are written sources, better, because Craig is plainly homophobic in his speeches and voting. AFAIK, Condi is not“out front” on those issues. She’s guilty by association, and inuendo.
Rayne @ 74
Rayne, it really grieves me to say you are full of crap. I would not have expected this defense of the indefensible from you in a million years. “There isn’t enough data in this post” TO GO TO PRINT WITH IT!
The Hypocrisy is blinding.
These people and those that allow this type of behaviour and thought to happen, are nothing more than shallow, lying, despicable, incompetent HYPOCRITES!!!
Rayne- well this is sorta an OT counter example, but my mom is now 90. I’m not sure she’s thought about the gay republican issue, since she’s a dem liberal. But, she still frequents the “donut shop” driving her 1967 VW Bug. I remember her comment about an overheard “donut shop” conversation- to the effect that “Hillary can’t be gay- she has a child”… she thought that this was an entirely weird comment… which made no sense at all to her! Not that she (or I) support Hillary. Just offering that up, in the spirit of “Late NIte”!!! Sorry for the ramble… ;)
John Casper, so attack Condi for giving cover and comfort to hypocritical gay bashers. Don’t attack her for “I’m guessing she’s gay.”
Wess @ 85
To whom are you referring, Republicans or TRex? I honestly can’t tell tonight.
op99 @ 87
She’s not gay. She has a husban.. I mean president.
Yeah, that Grover Norquist quote about drowning government in a bathtub – doesn’t that sound, well, incredibly bitchy? IKYKWIM. Seriously, that quote sticks out like – well, an 8 inch member at a Fulsom Street parade?
As for Condi and the whole ethics and outing debates – well, I’ll note that if you want to play dirty, you have to expect that turnabout is fair play. I can’t recall Kerry, by contrast, to have engaged in any dirty politics that would justify the Swift Boat Liars. Period.
It’s the hypocrisy, stupid.
I am completely opposed to gays and lesbians being outed but with the Republicans eating their own and apparently outing their own members, TRex asks a valid question. Regardless of Condi’s sexuality, this is a question that has been raised for years. One has to wonder why some Republicans are outed while others are not. Again, they are using gays and lesbians as political tools. This will help them maintain the support of their religious extremists.
Lagunatic @ 76
Small g. I like that. And now it’s October and safe to drive through Laguna without relying on Glenneyre St. Do you all still have the “locals” park concerts this time of year?
The issue is not whether or not someone in a position of power is gay and is not admitting it. The issue is whether or not the not-admitting-it in any way points to an unacceptable level of hypocrisy.
I couldn’t care less what Condi Rice does with her sexuality, her shoe collection or her neurosis as a concert-pianist-type-A personality. I don’t see the correlation between someone serving ineptly in a foreign policy post, and the broader Republican domestic politics with regard to gay rights. Condi Rice has no purview or policy-making authority over legislative issues affecting gay Americans.
The whole thing is a non-sequitor, and frankly, if we have a hope in hell of winning this election, we’d better start using our energies where they will have an effect, rather than mewing over how to unleash personal vendettas against people we think have done a crappy job.
Lagunatic @ 76
Geez!!! There is only ONE valley (just kidding) I’m from “THE Valley”– San Fernando valley. Zappa Valley Girl (or not..)
Valley Girl @ 94
well gag me sideways with a spoon!
marksb @ 81
LOL – every little bit helps.
So Condi’s gay? I’ll be damned- I thought she only had sex with a cello.
marksb @ 92
It is the best time of year. The concerts in the park ended earlier this month but they sure are great.
op99 @ 58
Repubs chose the playing field… we gotta be on the same plane to play wack a mole
Go T-Rex
have been reading a bit of google on T-Rex’s source mentioned… she’s put Jeff Gannon and Condi in the same article, different paragraphs, but if T-Rex insinuated (published), so did his source
Matt Stoller draws a parallel between Sclesinger and Ross Perot in his debate/campaign critique.
Hey Joe: What’s that giant sucking sound? It’s your campaign, stupid.
dab from CT @ 96
She has to. who else sends her Romones clips they find on Crooks And Liars (and of course money)? I am the ultimate cool dad.
A couple of points:
Favorite line from one of my favorite movies:
“Bitch, you knew I was a snake.”
Second, I think the Talibangelicals and Republicans understand the dangers of porcupines having sex.
punaise @ 95
really sad…
Valley Girl @ 94
I did two years in the Central Valley. I was miserable.
well gag me sideways with a spoon! (Punaise)
I mean, like, I mean like omigod!!!!!! Punaise!!!! I mean like THE GALLERIA!!!! You didn’t figure that out? Like… omigod, Punaise!
open mind, fer sure, fer sure…
Valley Girl @ 105
I’m sooo sure!
kirk, don’t be dissin’ my homies.
op99 — you’re not the first to tell me I’m full of crap, nor will you be the last.
Speculatory statement. It does not say, “Gosh, we have evidence that Condi is gay (or for that matter, straight or asexual).”
We’ll simply agree to disagree on what constitutes outing. I believe until the President declares any one of us terrorists and ships us off to Gitmo without recourse, that we are still entitled to speculation.
VG (I hope I can call you that since I just emerged from Lurkland)I figured it was the true Valley. I grew up in the other valley (San Gabriel). A good friend of mine had Moon Unit Zappa as a student and got to meet Frank on several occasions. Apparently, he was a great guy.
njr @ 99
So it’s OK for TRex to recycle somebody else’s insinuation?
OMG!!! Condi’s GAY?!?!? I’m telling EVERYBODY!!!!!
who knew there was a National Ho’s League? And since when did the dean go all french ‘n stuff?
The 129,000 ton bahamian registered oil tanker CONDOLEEZZA RICE was renamed ALTAIR VOYAGER. It is bad luck to rename a ship. But it is necessary to coverup her 10 years on the Chevron Board of Directors. CHEVRON is a classic evil oil company.
CONDI directed Christy Whitman to lie to the first responders and people of NY about the poisoned air produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center-which was an inside job.
Regarding the warning that there would be an attack on the US on 9/11 Condi said “It was incomprehensible…”
She said the same thing in early Oct. When STATE OF DENIAL came out. Ashcroft said the exact same thing “It was incomprehensible…” on Fox on Oct. 7. Not only are CONDI and ASHCROFT lawyered up, they probably have the same lawyer.
On May 16, 2002, she told lie after lie about 9/11.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news…..16-13.html
Condoleezza Rice should be tried for treason.
I didn’t say it very well above.
Since Condi, AFAIK, isn’t herself engaged in GLBT bashing, I’d prefer to restrict criticism of her to
her fucking upthe job of Secretary of State.I think “getting this far out in front” on Condi, tends to dilute the brand, because an FDL post appears to be most reputable documentation of this rumor.
Redshift @ 79
Yup, it’s called the smell of blood. Heeeeeeyah, in for the kill! Or, as we warrior princeses say, “ULLLULULULUL!”
If the Republicans can get on radio and teevee and claim Nancy Pelosi is the most unpopular politician in America, when that title is clearly reserved for Cheney, Bush, Hastert, (multiple guess) then we should be able to speculate if Condi “Tu Kan Choo” Rice plays for the home team.
Frank33 @ 114
Yes, it’s time to bring back the guillotine.
Condi as she’s dragged away: “Fuck ‘em. Let ‘em eat big macs.”
Rayne @ 109
At this point, it would be irresonsible not to speculate.
Op99, I have a very simple suggestion. If you don’t like my posts anymore or the direction my writing has taken, skip late nite and read the other three writers on this blog. I fervently believe that these issues need to be dragged out into the light and discussed. It is secrecy and a tissue of lies that keeps the GOP in power now. I feel that they need to be held accountable for all the deceptions and sins of omission they have foisted on the voting public.
If Condi isn’t gay and this can be demonstrably proven, I will retract my statements to that effect and apologize, but not an instant sooner.
I don’t see what’s wrong with saying one thinks Condi is gay. Unless she says it herself, of course, we don’t know for sure. But I see nothing wrong with speculating she’s gay. But that’s because I see nothing wrong with being gay. To me it’s like speculating if she’s jewish or episcopalian. Or if she’s right handed or left handed.
Sorry, I don’t get all the outrage.
And it has no relation to swiftboating. Swiftboating is slander. Saying someone’s gay is not slander unless you think it’s bad to be gay.
Hi TRex
I’m listening to your Young Turks clip right now!! I love it & you’ve got a great voice!!! You Rock!!!
ralps @ 121
Where did you find it? I haven’t heard it yet!
ANJINSAN: Did not say it. I would even let her have habeous corpus. There is a disease called “World Trade Center Cough”. CONDI as heas of National Security Council lied about toxic air and more people will die from that than were murdered on 9/11. I got the references.
They play their shows in an endless loop at The Young Turks dot com.
TRex @ 122
I’m picking up snippets of it through the fillings in my molars.
Lagunatic @ 110
I went to college in that other valley (I think)- Claremont? The father of one of my college friends conducted a local orchestra, and apparently had had Zappa as a student at one time… (I’m talkin’ time machine here)… also father and son were admirers of Zappa’s talent… so, the name IS partly homage
anjinsan @ 108
Hey – I loved the Valley. It was great place to stop and – uh – reset when I was returning from home to UCSB.
I grew up in the other valley too. When Pomona College (Claremont College?) had a station – before the FCC nudged the low power stations off!
When KROQ was still in the Pasadena Hilton (with vacuums in the hall for background) Rodney Bigenheimer had call-in guests who were living near San Bernadino in a house Zappa and some of the Mothers had lived in.
The callers said the house interior still had graffiti/art from Zappa and pals….
op99 @ 63
So far we have lurcher, shoephone, limitedly John Casper, and perhaps Wess (can’t really tell) who are NOT perfectly fine with what’s going down here. How about the rest of you? Do you agree with publishing insinuations that we have no evidence for because the subjects are Republican? Are you proud to be associated with that effort? Proud enough to go on record?
Condi presides over GAY WEDDING!!! (duh! duh! duh! [scary movie music]) Shocking. Shocking, I say.
ps It’s a joke
nite all
op99, you are right on the verge of seriously pissing me off and I don’t think you want to do that.
op99 @ 63
Op, I love ya, and am probably not the best to comment on this, but referring to Condi as gay is hardly novel at this point. lina @ 120
Amen.
John Casper — it’s about the hypocrisy.
Condi is a hypocrite in many, many ways, standing mute while her party and administration denigrate everything that we know her to be. Regardless of her sexuality, she rejects systematically doing anything concrete to help members of minority groups to which she belongs, whether women or African-American, all the while getting the biggest possible hand up as a useful tool for this administration.
She’s a liar as well, proven. Claiming fluency in Russian is just one of her numerous lies or stretched truths.
Add her incompetence or pointed malignance in her roles and we have a senior administration official that is clearly unfit to serve.
Do you like that better? I still don’t care for the cold-assed wench; she’s failed to earn my respect and done nearly everything possible to earn my enmity. I’d be far less prone to tolerating speculation about her personal life and job performance were she to be capable of doing the least bit to earn my respect.
TRex @
122
I’m an AAR Premium subscriber, so I downloaded today’s show. You might try here- http://www.theyoungturks.com/ or here- http://www.airamerica.com/premium/ then click on the young turks section
I just read a cool newspaper story from Palm Springs talking about YouTube and “Time to Throw Mary Bono Out.”
“moving to Montana soon
gonna be a dental floss tycoon”
op99-I find nothing offensive in TRex asking the question in his post. I do find your insistence on hijacking this thread to be rather tiresome at the end of a really great day at FDL.
I think religion in America is damaging itself. In its steadfast march to bring all three branches of government under its dominion, and world-wide conquest, their bloodlust for power has blinded them to the foundations of inclusion and acceptance. Many potential converts are dismayed by their behavior, and turn from getting involved in church and religion.
They do not foster the “group hug” concept, it is more like Borg assimilation–resistance is futile.
john in sacramento @
129
Forgot an anchor tag … Take two!!!
Condi presides over GAY WEDDING!!!
I heard David Kuo on Fresh Air today. He sounded emininently reasonable.
Fine.
I am taking the Condi line out of the post. Not because I think it is the right thing to do, but because, op99, it will shut your fractious fucking pie-hole.
Oh, and TRex, I like this post, but tomorrow can you write about ponies and candy?
On late night with conan o brien just now:
“John McCain recently denied he went out drinking with Hillary Clinton. When asked for comment, he said ‘Five years with the vietcong was enough.’”
Kirk “I grew up in the other valley too. When Pomona College (Claremont College?) had a station – before the FCC nudged the low power stations off!”
Oh!!!!!! I went to Pomona College… and indeed, there was a vigorous radio station while I was there!!!! One of my buds “Limp” Turner (now ivy prof in Labor Relations) did a Friday eve show… but that was probably before your time (Viet-Nam era)– but it was quite a local phenomenon at that time…
Oilfieldguy #137 — ditto that, I can see many folks who identify as religious who are disgusted.
But here’s the problem: we’re now going to see the equivalent of a “power vacuum”.
I’m knee-deep in Bowling Alone, and I can see how religious organizations assumed the roles that once belonged to other civic organizations. Now that people are becoming disillusioned, where will they go? To what will they cling for validation?
We are going to have to deal with this in a big, fat hurry.
There. It’s changed. Is there ANYTHING ELSE I can do for you, op99, now that you’re my new goddamn editor?
TRex @ 140
Do it and I thumb my nose. Controversy gets people talking and that’s never a bad thing.
Keith Olberman special commentary on the Habeus Corpus elimination act coming up next!
Howie Klein @ 134
Howie!!!! That’s a great link. I trust you saw Christy’s link earlier today for a local (OH) newscast where Vic Wulsin and the “had enough” YouTube for her campaign were prominently mentioned!
‘Niters, FirePups. Try to keep the pie-throwing to a nominal level. It’s hell to scrape crust and filling out of the carpet here in the morning.
TRex, everytime you post, you take FDL’s brand along with you.
Why are you picking on a woman, Condi; why are you picking on an African American, Condi, when you don’t have any evidence and there are better targets? Those are legitimate questions that anyone can ask of you.
Larry Craig is a MALE, european American, GAY BASHING U.S. Senator and you’re ignoring published reports about him.
Someone at RedState or somewhere else could use your post to make a martyr out of Condi. That’s happened before at FDL. Whether you’re accurate wrt Condi’s orientation is one question, whether this post enhances or dilutes the FDL brand is another.
Don’t know what to think about Condi being gay, and it doesn’t really matter to me. That she’s aligned herself with the powerful, even though they are heartless and thoroughly corrupt, says a lot more about her.
But, I think emphasis on being gay falls into the trap the tight-assed on the religious right are setting. I think it’s very important to remember that they are trying to tie gay with pedophile, because of l`affaire Foley. Now, with any assertion–as with those recently of Craig–of gay behavior, and any attempts at outing, the Repugs are going to duck, keep their heads well down and deny, deny, deny, and certainly aren’t going to step out of the closet–at least, not before the election. Everything toward that end of revealing hypocrisy for what it is probably is not going to get much traction in the next three weeks–and opens up Dems and progressives to the charge of hypocrisy themselves–that they are simultaneously defending and using homosexuality for campaign purposes. (Now, yes, I know, the issue is the Repugs’ strong tendencies to hypocrisy–being gay while tub-thumping for their virtual extermination–and I know that the closeted in their midst are helping to perpetuate gays’ persecution. But, the fatcats in the religious right wing don’t want to get rid of the Republican Party because of this–they want to use it for their own purposes–and they want to prevail on the issue of homosexuality because it gets their flock riled up. So, in the end, trying to out all the sexual hypocrites in Repug party actually plays into the religious right wing’s hands and doesn’t demonstrably change either the direction or ideological structure of that party.)
My animosity toward people like Mehlman is that he’s a liar and a fuckin’ weasel par excellence. That he’s a sexual hypocrite, too, shouldn’t be surprising. But, that’s not why he’s heading the RNC. That’s not why Kindasleazza is running State today.
Cheers.
op99 @ 128
So now you “swiftboat” everyone else who ever visits FDL if they don’t rush to your side?
Sounds like someone needs to get some sleep.
I just spoke with Jane about it and she thought it was hilarious and was disappointed that I was changing it, and as far as I know, she is the last word on what best represents the FDL “brand”.
TRex @ 130
Uh-oh. Is op99 going to get sent to her room without dinner for challenging some real malarkey…?
shoephone @ 93
Spot on…The sexuality of public servants who are not in a position to cast votes in domestic policy issues that would be seen as detrimental to the group that their sexuality might happen to fall into is irrelevant.
Others who indulge themselves in sub rosa self-negating hypocrisy should be castigated for that, and have their sexuality left out of the equation.
Wholesale ‘outing’ is poor fodder for real progress in as repressed a society as the U.S. can be, IMO.
Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau’s statement that ‘the state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation’ holds as true today as it did when uttered in 1967…And is just as easily applied to the nation’s leaders as to its citizens.
op99 @ 128
op99 -
err – I’ve only been in SF three years…and with that shallow a connection I’ve met very reliable academics who happen to be lesbian and refer to Condi as the “dyke with the dick” (as Bush’s Sec of State).
Apparently San Francisco is closer to Palo Alto than the ex-Provost believed.
The ex-Provost was described as “stern, but switchy”.
Wish she’d take the flogger after Shrub’s sorry behind – she’s said to be good with it.
John Casper @ 150
I know. Terrible. The republicans never bash anybody. Their feelings are probably hurt.
I know I am too tired to read all this fighting. I am going to bed so I can wake up at 4:30 to watch CHRISTY on C-Span.
Good night. I hope we can be adults in the morning.
Rayne @ 144
Well, there’s this…
Jacqrat @ 158
Holy crap! The Lake is everywhere. TRex was on Air America.. now christy on CSPAN? Man, this place rocks.
TRex @ 119
Sorry, TRex, but you’re dead wrong on this one. And it’s this sort of overreaching that leaves progressive blogs wide open to attack by our political enemies. This isn’t satire, it’s slander if false and an inexcusable invasion of privacy if true. It’s proof of every bad thing Bobo Brooks has ever said about bloggers. And it comes at the very time when Rice has actually done one small honorable thing in her otherwise dishonorable career. She paid tribute to a gay couple at a swearing-in ceremony, the religious right is all over her for that, and you do this? You are rapidly becoming what you hate, and when you’ve stopped drinking your own Kool-Aid, perhaps you’ll realize it. In the meantime, I will certainly take you up on your invitation to skip your posts.
darkblack @ 155
Thank you, Darkblack.
shoephone @ 154
You too, hon. I’ll sling your asses in moderation so fast it’ll make your head spin and let the morning people sort out the mess. If I don’t want you talking on this thread, I can shut you down in two clicks of the mouse.
Now, I changed the fucking post.
Back.
Off.
Valley Girl @ 143
Wow Valley Girl -
I spent a big part of the summer of ‘77 deciding between Pomona College and UCSB.
If Pomona had been farther from home (and had better air) I’d have gone.
I loved listening to their station..gues i started noticing public FM in the around ‘73-’74.
sigh.
darkblack @ 155
He was quite something, our Pierre. Said the govt had no biz in the bedrooms, was very single when elected, dated Barbra Streisand, wore a toupee or not, as the mood struck him. Miss him.
In fact, that’s it for me tonight. I devote every night of my life to being here entertaining the readers. It’s fun for me, but you know there are nights when I would rather read or take a bath or talk on the phone.
Tonight is going to be one of those nights.
Good night.
Kirk- where did you grow up?
Oh, BTW, I choose PC bec. *it* was further away from home than my other offers! Funny
TRex @ 166
G’nite Mr. Rex. It was mostly a lovely day, and it’s been a long one for you. Thanks for a wonderful day, sir.
TRex @ 166
Be cool. I’m not gonna miss any of your posts. Later :)
Oh foo, I forgot something…
todd from LA — if you’re out there…I noted in comments in an earlier thread that you still hadn’t heard from the party about helping them. Sorry to hear that, but I’m sure it’s a function of craziness right now in every campaign/party office across the country.
I’d really like to suggest that you contact the closest DFA groups and ask them what they are doing, and if they have any suggestions on how you can get plugged into the party’s GOTV efforts. I noted a HUGE number of DFA groups across California, more than one in LA; just go to DFAlink.com, plug in your zip code to find the closest. You may need to become a DFA member to do this, but it’s painless and free.
HotFlash — nice idea, although I can see where many Dems might not want to do something that’s not directly related to the mission of their 527. I could see local Dems setting up 501(c)3’s for this, though.
In my case, I’m going to work on setting up a 501(c)3 for the purposes of an open source think tank concentrating on local economic development. Already trying to recruit small business folks to participate once the elections are over.
And now finally, off to bed…
TRex @ 119
Those arguments are just plumb illogical. And I would also expect you to be able to handle a substantive challenge without resorting to vague threats.
Rayne, my apologies for saying you were full of crap. I do want to provoke people about this, because I think it is so wrong and so opposite of what I thought progressive values were. But am sorry I personalized it directly at you.
Rayne,
This may be wishful thinking, but I would hope some truly spiritual leaders (new ones) would step up and gently chide the Talibangelicals which could bring about a murmering. A return to good works and charity. Eschew a stance of moral superiority in favor overwhelming compassion for those spiritually adrift, regardless of circumstance or orientation.
I may be a pollyanna, but I predict someone will see this need and move in to encroach on this tribe of indoctrinators.
Thank you, TRex. I published my 171 before I read that you changed your post. I appreciate that you considered my arguments.
Hot Flash,
I went to that link, and it took about two seconds to figure it was a reference to what used to be known as constituence services. Population being so big nowadays, it makes it tough. Good idea, but huge fights over funding.
op99, you seem to be acting like a “concern troll” (altho’ I know you aren’t).
Dang, thinking Condi is gay is old news (like over 4 yrs at least). I heard that Gwen Ifill (Washington Week) was her GF back then.
Actually, I liked Condi’s recent recognizing of the new high official on AIDS with his male partner and acknowledging the official’s “mother-in-law” as well. Made the religious right flip right out.
G’nite to TRex and everyone else.
Sorry TRex,
There are no paddles on Shit Creek.
I have to break with my progressive friends here. I don’t believe that God intended that Homo Sapiens should have the same rights as normal people. I think it’s unnatural.
On the other hand, I think Wildmon should be careful about Gay purges. The Bible says that one day we will all be “Judged by our Fruits.” So there’s probably some leather queen at the gate sayin, “Go to hell, ya bitch!”
Our cute loveable furry friend Grover, seems to think that Bush is gonna pull Ossama bin Buggin’ out of a spiderhole around Halloween…
I wouldn’t miss this showdown for the world!
Before you butter that popcorn, remember that some 70 million people will vote on privatized machines, and that ChoicePoint has been scouring voter rolls in swing states.
Rove ain’t wearin’ that grin because he loves The Hague in the Autumn and Slobo’s cell is vacant…
Homicidal Gopers with Nukular weapons: Not a good thing
I spewed a nug of my ice cream when I saw the pic for this post and while reading it choked down the rest trying not to snarf.
buenas noches, senor TRex
By the way: A few years ago, when John Malone of Liberty Media was angling to take over News Corp., Rupert Murdoch engineered a “poison pill” designed to keep Malone and anyone else from buying up enough stock to threaten the Murdoch family’s hold on News Corp.
But the shareholders of News Corp. can — if they act by this Friday — vote not to renew the poison pill. This means that Murdoch will be forced to fight Malone for control of his company.
If you have News Corp. stock, or know someone who does, or suspect that your mutual fund does, click on the link to make your voice heard.
The only thing Condi loves is the smell of crude oil in the morning. She is a habitual liar. She lied about being warned that there was going to be an attack on by Bin Laden. She lied about $100,000 from Pakistan sent to Bin Laden’s hijackers. She lied about poisoned air in NYC. But she is a VULCAN.
————
“What I am quite certain of, however, I would remember if I was told-as this
account apparently says-that there was about to be an attack in the United States. The idea that I would somehow have ignored, that I find incomprehensible.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00187.html
———-
Q Dr. Rice, are you aware of the reports at the time that — was in Washington on September 11th, and on September 10th, $100,000 was wired to Pakistan to this group here in this area? While he was here meeting with you or anybody in the administration?
DR. RICE: I have not seen that report, and he was certainly not meeting with me.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news…..16-13.html
————
“Condoleezza Rice’s office gave final approval to the infamous Environmental Protection Agency press releases days after 9/11 claiming the air around Ground Zero was ’safe to breathe’, internal documents show. Now Secretary of State, Rice was then head of the National Security Council – ‘the final decision maker’ on EPA statements about lower Manhattan air quality, the documents say.”
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09…..milton.htm
the cover story of this month’s Harper’s Magazine:
Barack Obama, Inc.
The Birth of a Washington Machine
haven’t read it yet.
Interesting dynamics with the GOP core breach going on. What we ought to be doing is taking careful notes. A big tent full of viciously intolerant people is a recipe for political disaster. So let’s remember this recipe for future meals.
Next time Condi’s in the company of Talibangelicals, someone should bring up the subject of Foleygate in a roundtable discussion.
darkblack @ 155
Darkblack, I honor your work and values, and I’m happy to have been able to speak up on your behalf here.
On this issue, I respectfully disagree. The GOP electoral machine under Rove has used hatred of sexual (and other) minorities as a hook with which to seize political power.
Every one of Bush’s appointees in the Executive Branch are there because of Rove/Bush/Cheney’s strategic use of hatred.
Every one of those appointees – and every single person who campaigns for Bush – shares Bush’s moral degradation for and his responsibility for the GOP’s decade-long strategy of gay bashing.
Fuck closeted co-conspirators like Condi and Ken.
They pluck personal and political rewards from gooperdom, and goopers keep the rhetorical “fag”-bashing going.
Fuck Condi. And all of the closeted GOP staffers and aides who advance in their personal lives from the Goopers’ gay-bashing – there is a word for them.
Betrayers.
I could give a shit about the sensibilities of the loyal GOP foot soldiers who are about to suffer after cynically fucking over their brothers and sisters.
I’ll save my compassion for Matthew Shepard and all the gay and lesbian youth who kill themselves because the authoritarian GOP “churches” tell them and their parents gay people are subhuman shit.
And I hope the outing continues until every GLBT staffer or office-holder in the GOP is outed, or the GOP stops the gay-bashing.
Until then, I hope the gloves stay off.
Darkblack, Kirk Murphy,
Gentylemen, that was some eloquence. Way more convincing than pies, although less fun. I love the Lake — it’s Apollonian as well as Dionysian.
Just to clarify; gotta confess that I completely missed the string of arguments above on the subject of Condi..
My only angle was that in a political party with forged alliances between wildly divergent ideologies, (gay GOP anti-gay GOP v.s. Dems) it’s nice to see them all occasionally tear each other to tiny bits.
Condi’s sexuality is none of my business and I prefer to keep it that way. But not so with many inquisitors in the big tent.
hello (tapping monitor) anyone still here?
Rayne @ 144
I agree with the general sentiment, but I’d take Bowling Alone itself with a grain of salt. A number of the things Putnam focused on (including the title concept) were shown within a few years to be artifacts of the time he did his research, and not actually trends. That didn’t stop Putnam from building his career on it, which kinda lost him my respect.
Hi Suzanne- just caught me on my way to zzzz…
Suzanne @
186
popped in after a
boredboard meeting, suzanne. Thanks for supporting Diane!Hey VG, was just wondering if it was safe to come out from under the desk yet?
Ah… Suzanne, ET… I’m still here… Diane really is an awesome candidate…
Suzanne, I think so… what’s on your mind? ;)
Balrog at 38:
I tried to watch the faux video of Bill O’Shithead interviewing the asshole shrub and I can’t. I’m nauseous. Has there ever been a more vile creature on this earth before bush?
Hey, ET, you have set a great example by your support of her.
Hey ET- I saw your offer for the halibut trip… but, I get so seasick… And, I can tell you a horrible story about going whale watching in Maine… but I won’t, unless you really want to know….
Valley Girl @ 192
Just racking my brain to try to come up with something…..anything to jump start the thread again.
kirk murphy @
183
I’m with Kirk here. I used to be opposed to outing except in extreme cases. (Foley, Kolbe, and the Idaho guy I’ve never heard of before all count.) But the last straw for me was when the Republicans tried to write me out of the Constitution. And I’m not buying any crap about “it was never going to pass anyway”. I took it VERY personally. I don’t like people voting on where I can sit on the bus. And as far as I’m concerned, anyone who’s working for that party should have their sexuality dug into.
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 193
Nixon.
Gosh, I’m sorry you took it out, TREX. But maybe now we can move on to Harriet Myers and Karl Rove.
hi, folks.
PaTrex checking in just before bed…
Is it just me? Or are people getting testy about the late night threads more than usual, lately?
I mean, he’s my little brother, so I am naturally kind of protective…
but damn, people galloping to the defense of Andrew Sullivan, who is a complete fucking turd, and now Condi Rice?
Someone help me out here and explain why we’re bashing TRex in defense of these brownshirts?
Suzanne- well, I assume that you are in the same position as far as local (House) reps. as I am- mine (John Lewis) is D, and has not had a challenger of either party ever since when… so, there is not much point in me knocking on doors locally. And (unlike you) the rest of the state is a write off. Who’s your House rep?
Suzanne @ 196
How about a few Junya jokes?
patrick rex @ 200
op99’s FDL comments have always been bitchy. But, tonight she exceeded herself.
Anna Eshoo is my Congresswoman, VG. I get nice newsletters from her AND she responds to my emailed concerns with a response that is on topic!
Valley Girl @ 203
oh.
I should have guessed when she started picking sides for the kickball team.
Funny that people jumped to the defence of Condi but clearly don’t give a crap about Trex “outing” (if mentioning something in passing can be considered “outing”) other Repugs.
Patrick rex, I have noticed that also lately. I don’t understand it. I think there are a lot of stressors out there lately, lots of buttons being pushed for a variety of reasons.
Even so, that is no excuse for bad manners. My mama taught me to always be respectful when visiting someone else’s house and FDL is not my house.
kirk murphy @ 183
Kirk, I’m an idealist who has been forced into the service of pragmatism.
Agreed – The GOP, going back decades, has used many despicable connivances to expand the schisms inherent within a repressed classist society. They could not have regained power post-Nixon otherwise – What, were people going to elect them for their ideas?
Of course not…And thus, the ruse of ’style over substance’ used to catapult Daddy Reagan to the top slot in the Biznezz, for example.
I find it sad, and somewhat telling that sexual scandals such as we have seen of late are all that will penetrate the consciousness of the average voter.
Is it happening? Yes, without question.
Should it happen is where my personal ambivalence kicks in.
On one hand, these players are ‘living by the sword’…Innuendo, aspersions, the Big Lie, all freely used in the quest for power. They can expect no less than what they were prepared to deal out.
And on the other…The stain on the conscience incurred by those who must overcome their native morality and develop an inexorable ‘will to win’, leaving us like Kurtz, gazing at – “…a pile of…little arms” …Of our own creation.
I would say this – If we are going to change this world, this society for the better in a progressive way, then we must shoulder the hard burden and finish the g*ddamn job this time.
No ‘wink-wink-naughty-boy-here’s-a-pardon’, no forgiveness and public rehabilitation, no f*cking talk shows and speaking engagements…A thorough and utter debasing of all that the Straussian philosophies stand for.
This is the third time up at bat for these scumbags, and every time they are allowed to pollute the public discourse it grows exponentially worse. They must be stopped. Cold. Forever.
I will place shadows on my own soul, so that my children and the children of the world may grow up strong and free…And I will not forgive or forget those who enabled the destruction of life and liberty, whether by commission or omission.
Valley Girl @
203
I was late to the thread and hadn’t followed the evolution of the comments, so I didn’t chime in. I concur with VG.
I concur.
patrick rex @ 200
Itchy trigger fingers?
We’re all kinda like 5 year olds and Xmas is still 3 fecking weeks away. Mom can barely stand us.
And don’t say you weren’t drivin’ her crazy. Many will claim “taint so!”, but twas. *g*
shoephone @ 93
What Shoe said.
Persiflage @ 206
I have some thoughts on that, but I think it would probably be pointless for me to speculate.
I also think that some folks just have axes to grind, and they’ll grind them on whatever wheel comes to hand.
I must say though, I wouldn’t go poking TRex too much to see how he’ll react. You might just end up plowing up a snake, as Oilfieldguy likes to say.
Hey patrick rex- when do you leave for “abroad”? Long time ago, TRex mentioned a possible meetup for DimSum… and said it would be best with you also… I suspect that it will have to wait until you get back from Brit-land, but just thought I’d mention it. I think I know your fave place in Atlanta/ Chamblee.. but I haven’t been there in a few years… Buford Hwy, right side going north, obviously was some other kind of restaurant before… pink table cloths… lots of waiters…
Valley Girl @
195
My favorite whale watching story is from about 7 years ago. I took some friends out onto Prince William Sound from Whittier. It was flat calm, gorgeous, 80 degrees. We were trying to catch halibut near Pigot Point, where you can see dozens of glaciers in every direction. My friend (another) Phil had been taking pictures through the whole trip out to our fishing spot.
After fishing for an hour, I spotted a humpback broaching down at the entrance to Cochrane Bay. I told everyone to look toward the spot of the broach. A minute later, the whale broached again. We decided to reel in and go the mile to where the whale was.
When we got down there, the whale had moved, looking for more pink salmon schools. When it broached next, it was about 500 fathoms away (1,000 yards). We moved in that direction, and as we closed, the humpback fully broached about 25 fathoms away. Phil shot several pictures.
We played skiff and whale with her for a couple of minutes and the range stayed the same. Phil kept taking pictures. Then, right in perfect sunlight, the whale broached about 80 feet away. It was enormous and came about ten feet totally out of the water, almost like it was showing off. A National Geographic classic!
Phil clicked several times to an empty camera. Then she broached again and again……rocking our teeny skiff. I cried. it was so beautiful and awesome.
oops:
Rayne @ 109
But not habeas corpus…
The GOP is in for one hell of a battle with themselves. Let’s step back, watch and enjoy it they rip themselves to pieces. We’ll worry about a body count (so to speak) when it’s over.
Let’s not start our own inside battles. Stay focused. Mmmmmkay?
Valley Girl @ 214
and when you ask for the check, the poor lighting makes it hard to makeout the dim sum.
Valley Girl @ 214
THAT, madam, is Canton House. I like it very much.
Also, a little further up on the left is BBQ Corner #4…. I love me some dim sum.
I have to come up to the ATL to pick up an amplifier this weekend. Maybe then?
I leave for Europe a week from Monday. I run the Marine Corps Marathon a week from Sunday. DC FDLers, I will be running with my dad and my best running buddy, and our names will be on our shirts!
I’ll buy that one.
1,306DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Firepups and all other patriots:
Of course we can’t let up and we should indulge our moments of selfrighteous ecstasy …we can NOT ever forget, however , that the real beast in our midst, the fascist oligarcy, remains untouched as long as the socio-economic system remains intact. Until we unit to use democracy to make fundamental change in thedistribution of wealth and power, as long as the dynamics of our political economy remain the same, we are, like Sysiphus, doomed to fight the battle over and over and over again.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET THE BASTARDS UP!!
punaise @ 219
Oh, P’naise… dim sum terrible puns!
patrick rex @ 200
The Andrew Sullivan defending is inexplicable.
As for Condi – I don’t think the defense is of her as much as it is discomfort – and sometimes deep discomfort – at using a person’s putataive sexuality as a cudgel. That has been done for so long, and far too easily and well, by the people we very much despise for their policies and tactics.
I understand the stakes and the disgust at the hypocrisy of the Closet Cases (R), but I think people are justifiably worried at the potential for abuse and the cognitive trap of being progressive, supporting the right of people to love who they want how they want, while simultaneously dragging people into the spotlight knowing that their sexuality will be used against them- not just their hypocrisy.
There’s a whole range of responses to this – from schadenfreude to delight at using any effective weapon at hand to discomfort to true outrage at a principle being sacrificed for tactical advantage.
I don’t know where I come down on this – possibly on every point depending on the circumstances and how sick of Republicans I feel at the time – but the arguments shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand.
I once entered a pun contest, actually. I sent ten entries in all! I didn’t win. I didn’t even place… in fact, no pun in ten did…
NORSKE,
I’ve never seen you here at this time of night…..
DEFEAT ‘EM ALL AND LET GOD SORT IT OUT!!
Not unless you live in a country that demonizes Gays and tries to change enact constitutional amendmenta against tehm…
ET- ah… your story is so much nicer than mine… I invited some friends from England to come stay with me during my 2 week vacation in my favorite Maine place. They wanted to go whale watching in Bar Harbor… I said, that’s great, but while you’re doing that, I’ll just enjoy the shops in Bar Harbor… but they insisted that I come along, and finally I gave in… they sat up top- all 4, and had a grand time… I had to retreat below after about 5 mins and remember all I’d ever been told about watching the horizon and breathing deeply… no, I didn’t actually puke…ever, and I did see one teeny view of a whale when I opened my eye for a split second… but they were quite taken aback later when I showed them what had landed on my jacket… from above… get the picture?
Patrick Rex, has your doc cleared you for the Marathon?
Suzanne @ 229
I am sure he would have if I had asked him…. ;-)
Don’t worry, I am not trying to do a 3:30 or anything. I am just going to finish it and enjoy hanging out with my dad for four and half hours. We don’t run so much as speed waddle.
patrick rex @
225
were you sent to the punitentiary for breaking your entries?
TRex @ 140
That was totally uncalled for TRex. Since when do we talk to friends like that? Save it for your enemies.
patrick rex @ 220
YESSSS!!!! IT is Canton House!!!! Now that you mention the name, I remember it!!!! Yes!!!! I am def. available this weekend!!!!! Any time… If TRex could make it also, that would be great. He has my email, and probably my phone #…
For all the bullshit in this thread over the last few hours, the Blue America coffers increased by over $40,000 today.
When I started typing this comment, the total raised was $346,592.29.
By the time I finished typing it, and did one more quick refresh, the new total was $347,217.29.
patrick rex @ 225
garrrrr! how long you been holdng on to that one?
Oh, VG…. there’s no sick like seasick. It’s the WORST.
Folks, esp. Patrick 4/4, I really appreciate your comments and your thoughtful input.
I think TRex does important work, though if you tell him I said that, he’ll totally get the big head. Yes, he’s occasionally vitriolic, and yes, occasionally the hot tar and feathers fly so fast that it gets a little messy.
But his targets usually deserve it, in my humble opinion, and as I said before, there are some axe grinders here, and they’ll take whatever wheel they can get.
This is the best community on the web, and I think progressives can learn something from TRex’s fearlessness. (and from his occasional piedabocatosis.)
Thanks for being fun and friends.
-patrex
I’m pretty much, out all gay Republicans serving the Bush Administration. They’ve used sexual orientation as a political hammer for years.
But I thought Condi had a husband…you know, “my husband…I mean the President.”
VG,
Yuck. You’re still invited.
I think I pissed some people off here earlier with my plea to put Diane Benson on FDL’s actBlue candidate list. But, hey, I’m preaching to the choir.
punaise @ 235
years.
darkblack @ 208
it will be a Herculean task to clean out these Orgyin’ stables.
Hey Ed*ard Teller-
On last night’s thread you said something about donate or volunteer, or GTFO until after the election… Vented frustration or no, it resonated with me. Today, I contacted Darcy Burner’s campaign to volunteer, and I’m about to go to Blue America to make a donation. Just wanted to let you know, and to say thank you.
I wouldn’t trust a bunch of dykes outside the Lexington anymore than I trust dubya. It has a name, it’s called ‘gossip’ Most do it. Kirk I’m disappointed that you would too.
patrick rex @ 236
de nada.
Somebody once said to me, “If you respect me, you have to respect my opinion.”
I said, “If I respected your opinion I’d agree with it.”
from the Department of Desperate Distractions:
I, for one, love Trex’s passion. When he’s in a justified rage he truly awesome, just like his namesake (though, fortunately, with much longer arms) I wish I had his fearlessness. Here he was writing about public figures, he didn’t say “Joe Blow, who lives down the street, is Republican and gay”. And I doubt the headlines in the morning press will be “Condi outed by blogger”. So, as far as I’m concerned, his next post can be a list of “People who can just go and get f#*ked” and I’d read every damned word, and probably laugh a lot.
Patrick 4/4 at 225:
“I understand the stakes and the disgust at the hypocrisy of the Closet Cases (R), but I think people are justifiably worried at the potential for abuse and the cognitive trap of being progressive, supporting the right of people to love who they want how they want, while simultaneously dragging people into the spotlight knowing that their sexuality will be used against them- not just their hypocrisy.”
I agree. As a straight guy I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but outing and making an issue of a person’s sexuality, even if they are an evil hypocrit, seems to go against what we fundamentally stand for. An a**hole is an a**hole regardless of sexual preference and I think we debase ourselves by lowering ourselves to that level of debate. It also reinforces the concept that Gay=bad.
We must fight and fight hard, but on the merits and on the issues, lest we become what we oppose, as Bushco has already done.
RBG @ 234
Hey RBG- that looks like $10,000 in 3 1/2 hours–
–from an earlier post at ~ 7 pm PDT VG- AND NOW, it’s $335,043.08
Frank Probst @ 198
Nixon was just paranoid (for good reason, mind you) Bush is fucking insane.
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 248
I have to go with Bush, even though in a battle of adjectives “Nixonian” is so much scarier than “Bushy”.
Darkblack at 208:
Well done.
VG—that sounds about right.
At 2:00pm PDT it was at $311,405.
NumberFour @
241
That is way friggin’ COOL!!!
Off to bed very early for me. Getting up at 04yougottabekidding to finish alphabetizing handback papers for my 200-student lecture class and create those students’ next perilous exam.
After work, back home for a Diane Benson fundraiser my wife and I are hosting. It would be nice to see Diane added to the fdl ActBlue list by then, wouldn’t it?
G’nite, doggie friends.
ET, your relentlessness is admirable
I’ve been reading the Toobz for quite some time. Condi has been “outed” or seemingly “outed” many times before in internet articles. If this is “news” it is not “new news”- and frankly I don’t care one way or the other- except that Condi is another example of a lying liar. I think she was fair game, on that account.
patrick rex @ 200
Maybe it’s about protecting someone from their own excesses. Both Kindasleazza and Sullivan are unpleasant characters, but not because they are gay–and not because they minimize or hide that aspect of their lives (although, to do the latter in order to obtain power is hypocritical). Keeping one’s focus on the real issue is beneficial.
If one makes an unfounded assertion, one not based on fact and evidence, simply because one has political differences with another, it’s still not evidence. If the right were to say, at this moment, that, say, Barack Obama was gay, in hopes of sowing seeds of doubt among independent voters, with a mind toward 2008, the Democrats would be right in saying that the claim was a politically motivated smear without evidence. How different is that from what your brother implied about Kindasleazza?
I think what he’s saying is unfounded by evidence. I understand the motivation for why he’s saying it–extreme frustration with people who will fuck anyone less powerful than they to get or keep power. But, expressing one’s anger–an anger generated for all the right reasons–in all the wrong ways doesn’t accomplish one’s ends.
BTDT.
Cheers.
if I had to guess I’d say Condi is asexual.
but, I don’t have to guess because I don’t give a flying f**k about that – I’m more concerned with her complicity in war crimes and such.
punaise @ 256
Oilsexual
ET @ 215
I took some friends out onto Prince William Sound from Whittier….near Pigot Point, where you can see dozens of glaciers in every direction.
Hey….. I have pictures of that place!
The day I took the cruise it was high 60’s and bright sunshine…… the water was like a mirror and reflected…. many of the pictures you cannot tell what is the sky or water…
Valley Girl @ 247
AND, there were 4,165 donors for $335,043.08
AND now, 4,303 donors for $347,552.29
135 new donors in the timeframe- the number of people becoming engaged is just as important as the actual $$ value, imo, especially as this was Howie’s “$5 special” day!!!
OPU@ 50 –
If we want to defeat these bastards, we have to use EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. THING. they give us.
We can raise the level of discourse after these gangsters are laying (politically) dead at our feet. NOTHING short of absolute annihilation of the Republican party is enough.
Fuck your holier-than thou bullshit. People like you are why we’ve been powerless since Jan. 2001.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 260
hehe… is that what she actually said?? just kidding…
punaise @ 240
Well now
That’s a horse of a different color, isn’t it?
But these Bushy monkeyshines must be curtailed.
;>)
Heck no, that’s what *I* said.
I am embarrassed by how many people are too lily-livered to deal the blows needed to wreck the repukes.
They deserve nothing but our worst.
WOW…. drop in to see what was up before heading off to bed…… seems a little testy here tonight….
Don’t know if a group hug is needed or a 2×4 attitude adjustment???
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 263
I got it before… but this block quotey thingy plays tricks, so I wanted to make extra certain that your comment was… er…
katymine @ 264
Well, maybe the latter, but, please, aim for my ass and not my head. Not much cushioning left on the latter. :)
katymine @ 264
katymine- neither- we’re just taken the gloves off, to make extra sure that everyone has their say about how to win in Nov. I expect more of the same, leading up… not to worry imo
montag @ 266
We aim to please…
darkblack @
262
hah. Dean Koontz? reminds of the Brittany Birthing on a Bear Rug “sculpture”
Conde on trial for treason, now that is what I dream about.
Fundies are like the Borg, all to real to call a nightmare. Thanks for that laugh OFG.
darkblack, What a fantastic finale
Precisely! We cannot progress until this is cabal is fully addressed and it’s lackeys permanently in very public way humiliated and vilified. More will follow in years to come but these repeat offenders must be stopped. Now that is a public ousting I want to see. Trex is not wrong largely due to the nature of our opponent who lies and tortures. We are not engaged in a civil battle, but, a battle to reclaim a civilization.
This snippet of Digbys posted earlier today by Christy along with the deafening silence by Dems and Dem candidates worries me a great deal.
punaise @ 269
Jeff koons. Although their means of production may be similar.
How to win…… Ok… go to the DFA, PDA, Drinking Liberally groups…. Register any DEM voter you can get your hands on… Talk to everyone you see, get within spitting distance with about HOW important it is to vote…. make a list of 5-10 voters and MAKE sure they vote….. make them promise to take the same numbers to vote….
Talk to the grocery & shop clerks, drycleaner, daycare, janator or maid about voting. IT is OUR job to engage everyone…… do not care if you live in a so called red state…(AZ) but EVERY vote for a Democrat is a bigger win for our side…
I walk my neighborhood everyday….. I wave and ask…. did you get your mail in ballot yet?
Then did you send it in?
Do you have any questions or need information?
I do not care what they are registered, with a 1/3 of registered voters here being “Party not designated” and all the disgruntled true conseratives….. at least they might be disgusted but can’t vote for a Dem and rather not vote this time around…. That is also a win …
Winning is people to people….. every contact should have a goal of getting one more Democratic vote…..
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 263
That’s not the type of phrase I would normally associate with a ‘guitar playing bastard’, Mr. Bastard, sir.
More like…’Sh*t-backed father-f**king finch felchers’, I would suspect.
;>)
punaise @ 269
‘You hadda ask’
…Don’t forget the rear view.
;>)
Patrick 4/4 @ 268
we play ‘em to ease
weep; lay ‘em to ease
wee! Plame tweeze
(the curse of the homonymist…)
Now we’re outing homonymists?
Patrick 4/4 @ 271
Koons, Koontz
potato, potahto….
Patrick 4/4 @ 275
Somebody’s going to be on the homophone ( or as such types refer to it, a ‘blower’) before the night is through.
;>)
Patrick 4/4 @ 275
is nothing sacred?
punaise @ 278
I have a great fondness for my pillow, which I will now go worship.
Good night all.
punaise- Patrick 4/4 omigod you two are hurting my sides! I hope that helps me sleep!
fagedaboudit :~)
good night P4/4
VG – ever the night owl, eh?
Amen, darkblack, amen. If they succeed this time, we won’t have another chance.
darkblack @ 277
ET, homophone
punaise @ 282
punaise- me the night owl is a *relatively* new thing… I think it started happening when TRex started posting at Late Nite… once upon a time, I went to bed at 10:30 eastern!
punaise @ 284
JD, homophobe
darkblack @ 208
Darkblack -
Thanks for your clarity and elegant expression.
Remember the grainy B&W Radio Free Europe ads… exhorting our donations to help behind the Iron Curtain – help free them from the yoke of secret police and gulags?
Le Carre’s George Smiley – after long years of pain – turns and entraps his Soviet enemy, the master of moles known as Karla. Smiley breaks Karla into betraying his life’s work by threatening to destroy his daughter – and through her, Karla.
The first time I read Smiley’s People I was too eager for the plot – and too simple – to catch it in the dazzle.
I very much fear that by using the tools and methods of those we abhor, we shall become them.
Smiley’s People was published in 1979, but Le Carre’s life work depicts the “West’s” slow march to embrace ane emulate tyranny.
Le Carre’s 2003 Absolute Friends previews an October coming soon, in a world far more sordid than anything Smiley described.
Something very much like now.
I’m appalled by the merciless qualities of my own will to win. I’m never thought destroying peoples’ personal lives to demolish a political movement was OK.
And now we face a political movement – Bush authoritarianism – that will destroy personal lives, the US armed forces, our Republic, and our Constitution unless we stop it – very soon.
I’m saddened by the thought of the negative energy and effort required for “A thorough and utter debasing of all that the Straussian philosophies stand for.”
At the same time, I accept the need to use every possible non-violent method to extinguish Bush’s tyranny and emascualte those who would rise up in his place.
And when we’ve won, I hope we’ll still be able to recognize ourselves.
Valley Girl @ 285
well, don’t burn your candle at both ends
kirk- “And when we’ve won, I hope we’ll still be able to recognize ourselves.”
it is really late here, so this is not, perhaps, the most thoughtful comment… but… I think the saving grace will be that *we* have a sense of humor and irony.
And, with that, g’nite all.
well, don’t burn your candle at both ends (punaise)
Candle? what candle? xxxoo and now, really, g’nite.
‘nite VG sleep well
Valley Girl @ 289
g’night vg – sincere thanks for your thoughtful comments! sleep well!
I’ll leave it for others to turn out the lights. good night all.
good night pups
hope the new day brings smiles to all at the lake…
punaise @
256
Either asexual, or bisexual… either way, there’s not much out there mentioning who she’s been seeing or seen with (apart from pre-scheduled blatant “look at me and who I’m with!” after hours stories/pics) in what little time it seems she has for any kind of private life.
kirk murphy @ 287
And thank you as well, KM.
It is how the cycle perpetrates itself…A willing acquiescence to cultish fascism for some, an unfortunate set of choices forced upon the already burdened for others.
But we will triumph. Because we have to.
Make book on it.
;>)
kirk murphy @ 287
Umm, I’ve been harping, I think, tonight, on one’s aim. It’s not necessary to destroy private lives. Those private lives, whether benign or despicable, don’t matter to the people who think they themselves will get political power by aligning with those in power. A case in point would be Kuo’s recent book–the more chagrined Kuo seems in interview after interview, the more the accusations by the faithful (to party and religion) of his own shortcomings seem to grow.
There’s enough that’s out in the open to attack–and rightly so. If the public doesn’t respond to fact, then even lies in the service of good will have no effect on that public.
When has insanity ever caused the return of normalcy to the insane?
Cheers.
kirk said
I very much fear that by using the tools and methods of those we abhor, we shall become them.
A very healthy fear and one that should not be forgotten. The methods in question tonight are not violent nor (if borrowed temporarily) are they going to change who we are fundamentally. If the opposition continues unabated we will all suffer much more. It’s more like giving them a taste of their own medicine or finding a rabid wounded (beyond medical help) animal in the woods. Humane treatment demands putting the animal out of its misery and burying it before the disease spreads. Thus ending the cycle.
Sounds like an interesting book.
Thunderstorms in the night here. Time for kayak dreams.
g’nite pupsters.
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 242
err – I knew I shouldn’t have checked upthread. This comment has a rhetorical device that’s a bit squeaky.
“I wouldn’t trust a bunch of dykes outside the Lexington anymore than I trust dubya. It has a name, it’s called ‘gossip’ Most do it.”
Well written, and irrelevant – nothing I posted has anything to do with the Lexington or customers there.
I couldn’t find the Lexington on a map. From what I hear, I don’t dress well enough to fit in there irrespective of gender – my sense of style is vestigial.
I could, however, find the academic medical centers in this area. One is in Palo Alto….
And with fond thoughts of the Stanford band, goodnight pups!
Hello, whoever is left out there in the great lake of fire and, you know, dogs.
darkblack @ 296
oh.my.goddess.
darkblack, i may stay up for a while. after that, i’m afraid of my dreams.
A modest suggestion for any Talibangelicals out there: if you’re worried about gays infiltrating God’s Own Party, you know what you have to do: round up every Republican in DC, ship ‘em off to Gitmo, and let the “professional interrogators” have at ‘em.
Anyone who doesn’t confess to being gay after three weeks of waterboarding and electroshock gets to keep his job.
kirk murphy @ 301
Dreams be fine…And sleep is mine.
Good night.
:)
Both political parties have many gay staffers. Excellent organizational skills, social skills, and perfectionism make them indispensable to politics. The difference between the two parties is that the democratic side of Congress has not made a point of hypocritically demonizing them for political purposes, because society gains nothing by discriminating against people who simply are what they are.
The Christian right wing forgot the phrase from the seventies that “god does not make junk.” The right wing has spent a great deal of time making the argument that homosexuals are actually decadent heterosexuals, as if heterosexuals are in a struggle with their “demons;” as they resist the temptation of being with the same sex. Only republicans would attempt to sell such nonsense.
Scientists discovered homosexual behavior among some fish, and I’m certain that fish struggle with their sexuality on a daily basis. The right wing Christians believe that fish are just as capable of being tempted by another attractive fish of the same sex, because fish are as cognitive of the moral struggle as humans, presumably.
The republican scandal, of course, is that responsible adults were willing to allow teenage boys to be preyed upon, as long as the activity did not upset their political apple cart. It is hysterical to read right wing Christians asking for the Republican Party to purge all of its homosexuals. Apparently the fools don’t realize that without the homosexuals there is not a functional Republican Party.
The Christian right is just going to have to join the modern world and understand that their god creates homosexuals, they are not heterosexuals who have gone bad. Since god creates homosexuals they certainly cannot be discriminated against since they are god’s children too.
After all, god creates evangelicals too, and our laws do not prevent them from marrying, writing wills, collecting insurance benefits, nor claim that they are so “nuts” that they must be the devil’s work, and should be purged from society.
Normal people are kind, so they see no reason to punish people just because the way they receive god, looks like an epileptic seizure. Nor do they claim that it is a moral weakness for evangelicals to enjoy their seizures or that the devil tempts them to behave in such a manner. They just are – the same as gay people just are.
The Republican Party has gotten away with exploiting people’s ignorance, phobias, and superstitions far too long. It has also gotten away with treating the American people as if all of them are suckers. The republicans took the phrase, “There is a sucker born every minute,” too literally, (as they are prone to do about many things,) and decided to preempt middle class incomes, preempt poor children’s health care, preempt environmental standards, preempt open government, preempt integrity… well you get the picture.
Oh yes, I nearly forgot, they also decided to preempt a nation one eleventh our size, that was not a threat to the U.S. in the short term, and it is any body’s guess if it would have been a threat in the long term. And that criminal act has not turned out so well either.
When the Republican Party decided that it wanted to rule rather than serve, it was their first mistake. When they believed that it was so powerful that it could lie, cheat and steal, and no one would do a damn thing about it, it was their second mistake. When the Party concluded that the majority of Americans are suckers who only have to be pumped full of patriotic rhetoric and fear to make them snap into line, it was their third mistake. After it decided that it could start a war for no other reason than the profit motive, and get away with destabilizing the Middle East, costing Americans unknown billions of dollars, and the tremendous loss of life, it was the fourth mistake. It was a crime that will haunt them all of their miserable lives.
Looks like this was a good, lively thread. Love the photo.
Not exactly off-topic:
Bush Buys Land in Northern Paraguay
(Courtesy of Maccabee at DKos)
prostratedragon @ 304
Not much in this to verify the facts, but, given that the region described is close to existing Paraguayan military bases which are currently hosting US troops, there might be something to it. Certainly requires following up on. But without details of the deeding, I have to wonder. Typically, such large land sales to Americans–especially in Latin America–are made through proxies.
Enjoyed the blog, Blair is going, please help Bush on the way.
Valley Girl @
290
Here, now, we cut the candle in half and burn all four ends. Fun night.
[tiptoes into the room, stepping over crusts and fillings]
That was some pie-fight upstairs.
[goes to the backyard and gets out some shovels from the toolshed, and a big garbage can]
Anybody around to help with some cleanup?
Good Morning, Firedogs.
I hope everyone has a restful night, refreshed and ready to help turn out voters to turn the Republicans out of Congress. We’re having a bit of a warm spell here in central NJ, only in the 60s this morning.
I’ll put some coffee on, just as soon as I get the last of this mess scraped up. Mmm, sour cherry, my favorite.
montag @ 305
Makes sense. I do recall hearing that even to buy an urban apartment in many S.A. cities for a foreigner requires some measures like that, or extra clearances or something. The land is in the general vicinity of the base/not-base. I should have a better idea soon how far apart the areas are.
Apparently some of the groundwork for either the public deal on the bases, or the private one, or both was laid August of last year, when Rumsfeld made what seemed then a surprise visit to Paraguay and a couple of the Andes countries. I recall wondering then what was up, pretty off-topic, you know, and evidently so did a lot of people. There are a fair number of articles like this one from good ol’ Pravda:
patrick rex @
200
It’s getting more testy because there is so much at stake. But a line has been crossed here.
Do not doubt that people who use savagery to defeat their opponents and take power will not hesitate to use savagery again to keep themselves in power. The belief that we have to resort to the same scummy tactics of our opponents betrays a lack of imagination, vision and talent. If those who are fighting to take control of our government are not able to do it on the merits of their ideas and leadership, then they do not deserve to be in power. Those in power now are living proof of that. They have it, bu they certainly don; deserve it. I don’t care if it’s republicans or democrats or martians, fools will remain fools after the oath has been sworn, and trouble will always follow in their wake.
Coffee’s ready. Who needs a cup?
Billmon had a great post last night: Down the River
prostratedragon @ 310
As I say, without more info, this is speculation. Now, why this would matter is another consideration. When I read your original post, the first thing that came to mind was Colin McMillan. That may seem obscure, but McMillan was a former dep. Sec. of the Navy, and was being considered for Sec. of the Navy under Bush when he committed suicide in 2003. (No great conspiracy there–he was very ill with cancer.) But, what McMillan had done in the early `90s, because his ranch abutted the northwestern edge of Mescalero Apache reservation, was guarantee passage of trucks carrying nuclear power plant waste to the reservation when the Mescaleros were considering a contract with the power producers to create a temporary storage facility on reservation land. McMillan did this because the state of NM had threatened to blockade such shipments at the border of the reservation because there was no federal agreement in place for the waste to travel over the state’s roads.
In the same way, private land owned by the Bushies could be used as a staging/passage area for US troops into Bolivia and/or Ecuador, depending upon location.
The other fly circling the ointment in this is the proximity of the land in this supposed sale to land owned by the Rev. Moon, who, several years ago, bought a couple of million acres in that general neighborhood. That would normally not occur to me were it not for the fact that Bush’d Poppy were not best buds with Sun Myung Moon. I think maps of all strategic interests in the area would be of great help in distinguishing cigarette embers in the ashtray from a forest fire.
Cheers.
Can any fdlers help me out with this? I’ve got a running email thing going with my 20 something kids. I need to find a parody of Ted Stevens & the toobz (not the Jon Stewart one, they watch TDS & CR all the time), either photoshop or video, to top them. This all started when I emailed them to watch Bill Moyers “The Net at Risk”. It’s a tough job to outsnark these kids, they’re pros, so I would appreciate any help. For once, I would like to be snark queen for a day.
Firepups,
As we get close to the election, working to get the Republicans out of Congress, we must look ahead to our next task–ending the war in Iraq and preventing another preemptive war with Iran.
Look for peace organizations. If you are active in a religious congregation, ask if there is a peace ministry. Get involved. The knowledge and skills you have are needed to stop Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rice.
Work for peace, every day.
njprogressive @ 312
I understand Billmon’s argument, but, at the same time, I’ve never bought into the “we’re all guilty” routine, either. Arguing against the war, at home, at work, with family and friends, to our legislators, is about the best we can do without incurring personal harm to no good end. One resister thrown in jail is symbolic and soon forgotten, twenty resisters jailed is a cause and even more quickly forgotten. Ten million people is a movement and there are not enough jails to contain all of such people.
Languishing in jail for a principle is not helpful to anyone except the government, because they want to make an example of you to intimidate everyone else. Ten million together works. Two or three do not. That’s just strategic sense.
Cheers.
Howdy, folks. Another balmy morning in south Florida with the toads — not even the ibis were stirring yet!
What about the possibility of the Paraguayan ranch as a spider-hole of sorts? I mean, we do have reciprocal extradition arrangements with the government there, right? Oh, to dream the dream of the Shrub riding off into a Nixonian sunset…
Just a morning pit stop here. You can link to the audio of the CT Senate debate, Greatful Dead-style here. On C-Span schedule for tonight (TH) at 7.
It’s a little humid here in Georgia. Check out this site asking Kerry to give money back
http://heyjohn.org/
Montag,
Right with you. The base is right near the junction where the main national highway in the area y-forks. Don’t know about the aquifer, where the private holding (alleged) is, but its general description rel. border is similar, and northern border is an arc, so the two are at least on a tighter circle which might easily put it usably close to one of the branches. And of course Moon’s known to have been buying up S.A. water facilities for some time now, as have been some large companies like Enron back in the day. Something to keep half an eye on, I think.
Oilfieldguy @ 137
I don’t see how “religion in America” is doing what you say. I haven’t noticed the Jews, the Buddhists, the Sikhs, the Greek Orthodox, etc., etc., etc…. engaged in a “steadfast march to bring all three branches of government under its dominion.” I know exactly what you mean, and I agree with your point, but I think you’re painting with MUCH too wide a brush here. {disclaimer — I’m an Episcopalian. We’ve got enough trouble fending off “religion in America” over a gay bishop right now to engage in domination of anything.}
raven @ 319
Fits into the same general idea as this DailyKos front-page story: Unopposed House Democrats Sitting On $26,288,418. A decent number of Congresscritters and/or their staffers seem to follow what’s going on over at dKos, or at least on the main site, so hopefully it’ll wake a couple of people up.
“Ten million together works. Two or three do not.”
Co-ordination issues get significant when communities are spread out to far for face-to-face. At least until they get to a commonly-recognized starting point.
Marion in Savannah @ 321
Umm, Marion, isn’t the schism over this issue being bankrolled by a fundie, Howard F. Ahmanson, Jr.? That’s what I read lately. He’s determined to bring theocracy to American government–all part of the same extremism.
Maybe religion in this country is predominately Christian, and the argument that Buddhists, Sikhs, Jews, Greek Orthodox are religions, too, is parsing too finely? After all, those groups you mention are about 3% of the total of the religious-minded in the country. It’s not a stretch to generalize “religion” in this country to mean Christianity, nor to identify the problem with religion, in that political context.
Cheers.
wow !
lots of firedogs up and at it already !
good morning all – did I miss Christy on C Span – she was supposed t/b on at 6:30 est but don’t see the show on 1, 2, or 3 – anyone
ironranger – have you been to youtube yet ? there is another bit out there – if you go there and type in ted stevens and tubes . . .
From CIA Factbook, clip on Paraguay legal system:
Not promising, though not impossible either way. If it’s true, and Montag’s caution might be warranted for now, it might be more of a wealth-amassing thing.
Of course, 90,000 acres have a lot of interior space in which to hide.
here comes Washington Journal on C Span 1 . . didn’t mention her or Mirengoff, but this should be it, set your tivo
think she’s doing this via remote
oh and
HAPPY BIRTHDAY CHRISTY !!!!
Mornin’. My bunny and I are sleepy but got up to watch Christy. Did we miss her?
coffee…
Happy birthday Christy!!!
mornin’ egy and bunster,
Washington Journal just started – I may have missed “Smith and Mirengoff” in the intro – but I do recall Christy saying good things about this host so this is probably it
Good Morning! Kirby, you are the greatest.
Seems that there was some tantrums thrown last night (again), Anyone get hurt?
Oh well, I have got to get ready for work. But first — parent/teacher meeting where I get to hear sweet things about my dear five year old son.
So, I guess I will “just shut my fractious fucking pie-hole.”
PS I heart Darkblack — you talk truth. And I hope with all my heart that Tommy Yum slept well last night.
montag @ 324
Not really. Even in my little parish in Savannah, which is the most racially mixed church I’ve ever attended and where half of the vestry is gay, a number of people were deeply upset by it. It’s not a gay-bashing, per se. It has to do with a) how you interpret certain parts of the Bible, and b) probably more important for American Episcopalians, how we continue to fit into a world-wide Anglican Communion, the majority of whose members are now not WASPS, with a much narrower view of sexuality than is found here. It’s complicated.
I’m off to work now. Thanks to all who cleaned the rug. It sure was a mess after last night’s food fight.
Marion in Savannah @ 331
Would it be less complicated without Ahmanson’s money driving the schism–which is the point of it all–splitting American Episcopalians over this issue?
Cheers.
I woke up to an email from the Democratic Party of Oak Park that stated, in part:
“FDL has jumped the shark with an unintelligent, illogical, late night thread. True personalities do come out when people are tired…and the evidence tonight is disturbing, to say the least. It’s time to find an intelligent, well-researched, mature, non-starstruck blog.”
Any suggestions?
Trying to listen to C-Span, but only have the audio-only version — they’re talking about voting machines right now. Am I the right channel for Christy? (Never mind. It’s all call-ins now; I’ll just keep listening…)
immanentize -
had hearts like yours in mind when I opened this site for Tommy
http://lightacandleforesten.blogspot.com/
Fishguy Dave – if you’re listening to a call in show with female moderator, you’re in the right place
-and were those Scarlet Ibis’ you were refencing above ? I am sooo envious
CHS on c span one NOW
Yeah Redd!
Christy in stunning black looks and sounds great!
“rubber stamp republican congress”
GO Christy
GO meme
Powerline guy looks absolutely dour.
Thanks, cbl — go Christy!
(And no, they’re only the white ones, but I work on Virginia Key and watch them fly over the lab each morning on their way out from their night roosts.)
anginsan (142, On late night with conan o brien just now:
“John McCain recently denied he went out drinking with Hillary Clinton. When asked for comment, he said ‘Five years with the vietcong was enough.’”
McCain is vicious. Bill Clinton would never say this about straight-bulls……r’s wife, or anyone else’s. There was a flap some time ago about McCain’s slime against Chelsea Clinton. Matthews, and the other Republican thugs, will love his hero’s crudeness. McCain would have no problem filling Bush’s shoes. Creep.
chs–dems will take house, and extra seats. senate tight, comes down to tenn, va, missoui. war is very important esp here in wva where i make calls for the local dem party. we have a high rate of service, people serving in the military, we are proud of that, we worry what is happening to our sons daughters fathers brothers sisters in iraq.
somebody help me out here. i havent had my coffee yet and neither has bunny.
chisty you look FABulous, the pin is very pretty and your hair is super.
JackieD @ 334
Jackie, as a number of commenters said in this thread, everyone is very edgy, hopeful about turning the Republicans out in Congress, but worried that whatever we do won’t be enough. People are trying to keep their eyes on two prizes–winning the election and looking ahead to what to do next. Everyone’s agreed on the first, and nothing’s settled on the second.
For a lot of folks at the ‘Lake exposing hypocrisy is very important, as tool for shutting down the authoritarians. Others are worried about how what we say here can be used against progressive goals. Both sides made good points last night, but I fear that some folks got pretty upset.
Christy is waaay too civil for this – BUT, puleeze mention this guy’s blog -
referring to Limpballs as “America’s Anchorman” and their selection of Confederate Yankee as their blog of the week (CF was the blog that outed the page)
Jeebus, this PowerLine guy is full of it bringing up Jefferson — but then again, the ‘roots did bring it up that the leadership should’ve slapped him down and off his assignments earlier rather than later. Go CHS for bringing up Ney’s pension!
Sally, I get that. John McCain has one of the worst ivory tower complexes I’ve seen.
Watching ReddHead on C-SPAN. Anyone who thinks bloggers don’t count has got another think coming.
question the congressman in wva being investigated for scandal. chs says dems are showing how to investigate, he is off the committee and he is cooperating. paul says people in both parties are justifying earmarks. chs says ney and others will get their pensions in prison because rep congress refused to pass legislation taking away pension for federal felony. now about war again. people, help me out here.
R. from Missouri calling in. will vote for McCaskill because of mess in Iraq. We never should have gone there.
Yes. Christy thanks him talks about how we are playing whack a mole in Iraq- not enough troops and trying to put out fires everywhere.
njprogressive,
JackieD = textbook Concern Troll
Mirengoff – ‘no Iranian control in the south of Iraq right now, thankfully’ – jeebus
ooh, Repub. call from Lake o the Ozarks -(as red as they come) ’should’ve never gone in there’
Christy’s response included “occupation of Iraq”
I love Christy! go go go
iraq as wackamole poor planning, osama still at large, not enough troops, most violence this month, british commander says his troops making things worse in iraq, james baker calls it a mess.
Call from Oregon thanking Christy for mentioning higher violence in Iraq. She’s voting dem across the board “because this govt. lies to us and this congress backs those lies”
This congress doesn’t ask the questions and neither does out media . . . this is not a democracy, how can we go into another country when ours is falling apart.
caller asking about media, suspending habeus corpus.
powerline turkey wants dems to say what they will do in Iraq. Dems haven’t offered a solution. We’re winning the WOT, one of the reasons is aggressive surveillance we are doing. . . .
I need a shower.
shorter paul mirengoff: “we’re winning the war by killing everybody in our sights.”
Miringoff talking about the “weekly hit pieces against Bush” in the Sunday WaPost… come on — who buys this line any more?
He’s now shilling for his blog, the only smile he’s cracked. They think it’s a lot of fun.
Oh crap. Powerline screen grab. Somebody throw up a new thread.
“Shit Creek” is the last thing we want to see on CSPANNot necessary. screenshot of the lady liberty post. Awesome.
assrocket was his college roomie. How cozy.
Paul’s latest compost over @ PeeWeeline -
Dems have plenty of ideas, they’re simply not sharing them w/voters at this time – “government mandated” healthcare – and then goes on to cherry pick on just how horrid the system is in Europe and Canada
Note to Mirengoff: linking to [insert conservative talking point here from NRC] doesn’t equal new posting on your blog.
cbl @ 351
Thanks, cbl. I don’t always recognize ‘em. When Christy asked “why are you a progressive?” my instant reaction is to say because I believe the best in people, not the worst.
And thank you, cbl, for the lovely new blogspot. I’ve added my good wishes for Tommy and Esten and family.
caller from IN thinks Hoestettler will make a comeback because Nancy Pelosi is scary.
one of the interesting trial balloons that baker and co. are floating,via the washington times, is installing another “saddam” to stabilize the country. we need to hammer on this as in that;
1. this is business as usual for this bunch, since they propped up the last strongman in iraq, when it was convienient.
2. that this is being publically put out means the situation on the ground is even worse than we think (if thats possible)
Christy, your looking great aginst powerline paul. more relaxed. paul’s a little twitchy.
they each gave history of respective blogs. jane stated fdl after 2004 election, talked w chs at kos then later on chs joined fdl.
why tenn mo va, 3 closest races that will determine control. reps shifted money from oh and penn in the last couple of weeks.
all of those are going to come down to the wire.
paul is following new jersey, within the margin of error. chs says corruption is a republican problem in nj.
RevDeb @ 365
Only if you listen to the fearmongering on Limbaugh and the other voices of hate radio, or read the screeds of Powerline and its commenters.
caller “we put innocent people in iraq in jail that were on our side but now they hate us.”
Boy, the Republicans are afraid of Nancy Pelosi and her “San Francisco” values.
How about Republican Congressman Jim Gibbons and and his battery allegations?
-GSD
RevDeb, somewhere in these threads the last few days, someone wrote very funny, spot on take on with so many of them soon to be out of work, there would be a need for Wingnut Welfare Reform due to strains on the system -lol
njprogressive – takes us all awhile to develop an eye for that crap – especially us Melanie Hamilton types*g*
many thanks to the live bloggers–gotta get to work now
njprogressive @ 368
Yep, a grandmother is scarier than a corpulent wrestling coach that covers up a predator scandal. That logic can only be put forth by repigs.
caller: gotta get them there so they don’t come here. Like a mosquito trap that lures them . . . Christy: inaccurate; we are creating more terrorists and they have branched out to London and Madrid, etc. we have to worry about long term ramifications for our children.
Christy is just brilliant.
Now on to Brooksy and his pushing of Barak on the dems in the WaPo
chs we’re creating more terrorists. we are being attacked just not here. need to think of longterm implications of our iraq policy.
They like Barak because he seems benign.
Go Christy.
Who’s the dickhead who’s making up quotes from Christy…..
Christy slaps him down for lying.
-GSD
/don’t know, I’m pretty sure rove is gay…no actual proof except for the butt pants
seattle caller
“Over there we’re playing whack-a-mole and here we’re playing whack-a-con man.”
both of them like obama as a communicator, chs would like to hear more from him on the floor of the senate. chs trying to keep up with congressional races right now and not looking at ‘08. chs scolds paul for putting words in her mouth about iraq policy. now talking about corruption, she hears about it in her calls to voters in wva. checks and balances needed and also a public interested in holding their representatives accountable. why havent questions been asked about iraq and war profiteering, time for another truman commission, how is the war going and how is the money being spent.
relationship of polling to voting results. people i have to take a break and get that coffee. brain is going on strike. jump in and help me here please?
caller twilight zone, loss of habeus corpus
dab from CT @
62
Yeah, you’re right. Guess I’m overly superstitious.
Besides, I caught myself doing the wave by myself last night after reading all the good news.
caller from PA really worried about habeas being signed away and about the debacle in Iraq.
“Bush and Cheney- they believe the end justifies the means no matter what . . . I’m very concerned and I would not put it past them to tweek some of the election results to win “
Still talking about elections, with one tin-foil hat call-in… really, it’s just about “tweaking” a couple of races.
This is OT…but I found this post by Billmon to be most thoughtful…
http://billmon.org/archives/002843.html
Powerline guy thinks loss of habeas not so bad- need to balance rights with protection . . .
that’s cause he won’t be arrested as long as these clowns stay in power, he’s on their side.
Christy:
Habeas the only right that they wrote into the body of the Constitution rather than in the bill of rights because the framers thought it was THAT important. . .
we only know how bad it is because Hamdan got a lawyer . . .
Yeah, RevDeb, but K.O. made the nice point last night in his “Special Comment” that the next President could use those same powers against him. Of course, that idea gives me chilly thoughts that this means they’ll never allow themselves to leave! *g*
Mirengoff dismissing Police State concerns -
CHS response – explaining very, very important right – “very troubling from a legal standoint”, brings up those held by CIA “for years” and how Hamdam lawyers filed Habeus petition – now referring to conservatives like Bruce Fein being very much against suspenstion of HC – “a bedrock principle”
Moderator asking them if they read each other’s work – both respond civilly
asked if they read each other’s work. Yes to both.
kool aid drinker caller now saying terrorist Hamdam would very much appreciate CHS taking up for him
CHS – responds with how any one of our family members loved ones could wind up in jail
Birthday thread
chs history of habeus corpus going back to magna carta. dems did oppose this law, leahy, fine–from reagan administration conservative libertarian. need to know what you are charged with and why you are in jail. the only right in the constitution itself not the bill of rights. prisoners from bounty hunters, innocent people held for years for no reason.
ooooh, CHS mentioning how Gitmo prisoners are there merely as bounty hunter booty – (will have to tell Dr. Probst)
Mirengoff knee jerk – “terrorists”
powerline dolt talking about diff between enemy combatants and pow’s
talking about pow’s being more respectable than terrorists. Can’t give them rights, they are scum.
Wait, now he’s slamming U.S. GIs who “shot German POWs” on the battlefield?! Wow…
Nebraska caller
what if our leaders are BAD?
Bush out to destroy this nation. If we are out to promote freedom to other countries we had better fight for it at home.
Alabama guy afraid that govt. would take his guns and WH hasn’t done anything about abortion . . . tired