fitz! (i still believe)

FITZ! We don’t fight alone!

OT your daily gas and oil prices

Average price for regular gasoline 10/17/06 in 50 states and DC

$3.00 plus 1 state : Hawaii
$2.90 plus 0 states
$2.80 plus 0 state
$2.70 plus 1 state : Alaska
$2.60 plus 0 states
$2.50 plus 6 states
$2.40 plus 2 states
$2.30 plus 5 states
$2.20 plus 14 states
$2.10 plus 13 states
$2.00 plus 9 states

Average daily decline in the national average for regular gasoline beginning at the peak:

August 8-15: .56 cents
August 15-22: 1.06
August 22-29: 1.19
Aug 29- Sept 5: 1.54
September 5-12: 1.7
September 12-19: 1.8
September 19-26: 1.7
Sept 26-Oct 3: .9
October 3-10: .61
October 10-17: .56

Average national price: $2.223, down $.003 from yesterday
Down 52.6 cents from same time last year.
Highest recorded national average price: $3.057 9/5/2005

Highest average price: Hawaii $3.002
Lowest average price: Missouri $2.008

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/sbsavg.asp

Nymex Crude Future $58.93, down $1.27
Dated Brent Spot $59.50, down $.25
WTI Cushing Spot $58.93, down $1.01

The rate of decline in gasoline prices has slowed and is little changed over the last two weeks and is the same as the initial decline from the peak in early August. Oil prices continue to bounce around near the lower end of their range. Countervailing trends are at work: The cooling US economy vs. the cooling weather. The only certainty is that winter will come regardless of what happens to the economy.

things get better 21 days from today.

Action request:

A job for all those smart FDL folks.

Think up a good question for tomorrow’s debate between Lamont and Lieberman and submit it here:

http://www.wfsb.com/politics/index.html

Fighting pups!

Go to CTBob to see the billboard that has gone up in CT. Votes for torture.

We need these up all over the country with the names of bastards that made this happen. The dems too!

RevDeb—spent yesterday afternoon with our mutual friend from Philly. Great to see that he’s still as whacky as when I last saw him. Thanks for reconnecting us.

So why is John McCain not in the photo? Was he locked in the basement of Bob Jones University?

…maybe that is Dick Cheney’s “secure, undisclosed location!”

I liked the previous picture better.

Take heart, Jane, that goddamn piece of paper is going to come back and bite these creatures in the butt.

*xyz @ 5

Action request:

A job for all those smart FDL folks.

Think up a good question for tomorrow’s debate between Lamont and Lieberman and submit it here:

http://www.wfsb.com/politics/index.html

Did it:

Sen. Lieberman,
If the final count in the senate is 49-49-2 or 49-50-1 in favor of the Republicans, who will you caucus with, the Democrats or the Republicans? You have said that you will caucus with the Democrats but you also said that you would not run as an independent. Why should the Democrats believe you now if you say you will remain a Democrat? What will you owe the Republicans who have financed your campaign?

dead last @
9

So why is John McCain not in the photo? Was he locked in the basement of Bob Jones University?

…maybe that is Dick Cheney’s “secure, undisclosed location!”

Yeah where is St. McCain? Good question.

So, are Gitmo/Abu Ghraib tours strictly observational, or do they let visiting Republicans play Torturer For A Day?

There are multitudes of choice torture photos to choose from (and we haven’t seen the worst). My fervent prayer is that every day, in every city in this country another one will go up on a billboard, TIED DIRECTLY to the Bush Administration. Starting now.

Maybe, just maybe, people will start to wake the fuck up.

RBG @ 8

RevDeb—spent yesterday afternoon with our mutual friend from Philly. Great to see that he’s still as whacky as when I last saw him. Thanks for reconnecting us.

Whacky indeed! He certainly keeps everyone laughing.

Gotta go to a board meeting and earn my keep. . . . . later.

Jane:

I wish I had something more constructive to say other than that I despair for a country and that I really need to believe that this is the low point and things are going to get better from here, but I got nothin’.

Sorry to disagree, sister, but that “I got nothin’” don’t fly around here. You got plenty, in more ways than we can count.

But I’ll give it a start . . .

You’ve got plenty of passion, to fight these jokers from CT to CA, and all kinds of places in between.

You’ve got plenty of fearlessness (remember Arianna?), to stand up and smack down the trolls (virtual or otherwise) when they poke their unthinking heads into your path.

You’ve got plenty of righteous indignation, to speak up on behalf of those who can’t.

Most of all, you’ve got plenty of friends, who cheer with you, cry with you, work with you, argue with you, joke with you, and so much more.

Face it Jane: you’ve got plenty. It’s the guys in the photo with nothin’.

Who’s next?

It can get worse; Dems could win in 21 days and the GOP could manipulate voting machines, threaten or disenfranchise voters, and shred or hide ballots to steal it. Again. Or…a “terrorist” attack could make it so that President Bush has to “postpone” the elections for security reasons. Don’t kid yourself. It could get a whole lot worse. And probably will.

Just think of the men in this picture being brought before an international tribunal on war crimes. That’s part of what keeps me going.

Jenny from the Blog @ 15

There are multitudes of choice torture photos to choose from (and we haven’t seen the worst). My fervent prayer is that every day, in every city in this country another one will go up on a billboard, TIED DIRECTLY to the Bush Administration. Starting now.

Maybe, just maybe, people will start to wake the fuck up.

Jenny!!!

That really pissed me off, when I heard that there were a whole bunch more torture photos, and I think there was even a legal ruling that the administration had to release them, and… nothing. Out of sight, out of mind.

RevDeb @ 19

Just think of the men in this picture being brought before an international tribunal on war crimes. That’s part of what keeps me going.

works for me

y’know, of all of “our” guys, TBogg manages to hit it out of the park most often. and his pups are cute, too. (no comment re: his iPod selections.) :)

Now that torture is all legal, you think those ‘bad apples’ will get the Medal of Freedom?
http://www.thememoryhole.org/w…..index2.htm

Jane Hamsher @
13

dead last @
9

So why is John McCain not in the photo? Was he locked in the basement of Bob Jones University?

…maybe that is Dick Cheney’s “secure, undisclosed location!”

Yeah where is St. McCain? Good question.

There’s certainly a specter in that photo, but I’m not seeing Arlen.

one of TBogg’s readers took the words right out of my mouth -

Honey, with this batch of short-dick-compensating SOBs, you’d have to look REAL close, and it would be an iffy proposition at that.
CatStaff | 10.17.06 – 1:52 pm |

oh and can I mention again these fucks are TANTRIC w/ violence and the suffering of others – or did you miss Chris Shays screed on Abu Ghraib as sex ring not torture ?!?!

Jane said:

I wish I had something more constructive to say other than that I despair for a country and that I really need to believe that this is the low point and things are going to get better from here, but I got nothin’.

One way to change your blues would be to say “Party Time! In 3 weeks, it’s Party Time!”.

Now who wouldn’t like a party?

Can you feel the excitement now? Party! Party! Party!

Eli,

Hey there, my friend.

The dems are afraid of the explosions that would go off, world-wide, if the truth were known. I’m convinced that’s why there’s been no push to comply with the court’s ruling on this, from either side. We’ve only seen the more benign torture photos… hard to believe. I can still hear Seymour Hersch’s voice in my head describing what he’d seen. I wish I could get his words out of my head.

I personally don’t want to see them, but they have to come out and let the chips fall where they may. This country will never begin the healing process unless every single person knows what horrors have been committed in our name.

Well, it’s nice to see you, Eli. And thanks for everything.

Folks.. correct me if I’m wrong, but last I heard, Diebold isnt in every single voting district. Furthermore, with the GOP now having to defend in so many districts, I think that this “problem” isnt as big as you folks sometimes make it out to be.

I think sometimes this “Diebold” mantra gets used as a crutch (for bad Democratic strategy or whatever) and it can cause despair when its not necessary.

So, what will KO say tonight?

Torture, secret detentions, and Argentinian style “disappearances” have now been officially sanctioned by our government. These things have been going on for years, but most of us could argue that it was done without our knowledge or consent. Ignorance was our way to opt-out of collective guilt.

However, torture now has the official congressional seal of approval. By paying taxes, we are funding and supporting these practices. There is no longer any way to avoid complicity, short of going on strike.

By signing this bill, our government is crossing a very grave line in the sand. I really don’t know how to react.

Mad Dogs @ 26

Jane said:

I wish I had something more constructive to say other than that I despair for a country and that I really need to believe that this is the low point and things are going to get better from here, but I got nothin’.

One way to change your blues would be to say “Party Time! In 3 weeks, it’s Party Time!”.

Now who wouldn’t like a party?

Can you feel the excitement now? Party! Party! Party!

Yes, let’s go party.

Everyone in the photo looks so happy about this signing. WTF! To actually celebrate such an occasion no matter how necessary one may think this legisation may be. Are they running out for a viewing of a special torture session after the ceremony? Evil sick fucks all of them.

Scott Tribe @ 28

Folks.. correct me if I’m wrong, but last I heard, Diebold isnt in every single voting district. Furthermore, with the GOP now having to defend in so many districts, I think that this “problem” isnt as big as you folks sometimes make it out to be.

I think sometimes this “Diebold” mantra gets used as a crutch (for bad Democratic strategy or whatever) and it can cause despair when its not necessary.

I can’t speak for other counties, but in ours, we still use the scanned cards, and the county elections folks have put the ballot images online so every citizen can look at the actual ballots.

I wonder if Kenny Boy is laughing today as well, according to the WaPo:

Kenneth Lay’s Conviction Erased From Record

I linked to RAWStory on it, I don’t want to honor the Post from the Swamp with the traffic.

dannyM @ 30

Torture, secret detentions, and Argentinian style “disappearances” have now been officially sanctioned by our government.

ahora nosotros somos todos desaparecidos.

The canadian version of this story on the signed bill mentioned that civil liberty groups are gearing up to challenge this as unconstitutional. Any word on that strategy?

Jenny from the Blog @ 27

Eli,

Hey there, my friend.

The dems are afraid of the explosions that would go off, world-wide, if the truth were known. I’m convinced that’s why there’s been no push to comply with the court’s ruling on this, from either side. We’ve only seen the more benign torture photos… hard to believe. I can still hear Seymour Hersch’s voice in my head describing what he’d seen. I wish I could get his words out of my head.

I personally don’t want to see them, but they have to come out and let the chips fall where they may. This country will never begin the healing process unless every single person knows what horrors have been committed in our name.

Well, it’s nice to see you, Eli. And thanks for everything.

I’m sure they’re unbearably ghastly, but it is absolutely necessary to blow up this abstract concept that we’re merely interrogating aggressively or hazing the detainees. We’re *brutalizing* them.

The other key here is that the “just a few bad apples” shield that the administration had when the first round of Abu Ghraib photos came out is gone now. This shit is Official Policy, and everyone knows it.

George Bush signed into law S3930 the torture and kangaroo courts bill today. There was no signing statement. There was no need of one. When asked if the President had gotten everything he had wanted in the bill, despite the talk of compromise, Tony Snow said yes. Here is the initial paragraph of the speech accompanying the bill’s signing followed by various snippets with comments.

The Military Commissions Act of 2006 is one of the most important pieces of legislation in the war on terror. This bill will allow the Central Intelligence Agency to continue its program for questioning [i.e. waterboarding in particular/torture in general] key terrorist leaders and operatives like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the man believed to be the mastermind of the September the 11th, 2001 attacks on our country. This program has been one of the most successful intelligence efforts in American history.

[There is no evidence of this and much against the efficacy of torture, not to mention its morality, its endangerment of our people if they should be held by our enemies or now even our own government, its potential to recruit new terrorists, and its shredding of our international reputation.]

It has helped prevent attacks on our country. And the bill I sign today will ensure that we can continue using this vital tool [torture] to protect [endanger and shame]the American people for years to come. The Military Commissions Act will also allow us to prosecute captured terrorists for war crimes through a full and fair [kangaroo trial] trial.
This bill provides legal protections that ensure our military and intelligence personnel will not have to fear lawsuits filed by terrorists simply for doing their jobs.

[Immunizes torturers for committing torture]

This bill spells out specific, recognizable offenses [It absolutely, positively doesn’t and the Administration has specifically refused to say if waterboarding, sleep deprivation, hypothermia, and uncomfortable positions are acceptable or not.] that would be considered crimes in the handling of detainees so that our men and women who question captured terrorists can perform their duties to the fullest extent of the law. And this bill complies with both the spirit and the letter of our international obligations. As I’ve said before, the United States does not torture [except it does]. It’s against our laws and it’s against our values [because we just legalized and sanctioned it].

Altogether, information from terrorists in CIA custody has played a role [i.e. had little or no role] in the capture or questioning of nearly every senior al Qaeda member or associate detained by the United States and its allies [to whom we outsource torture] since this program began.

Were it not for this program, our intelligence community believes that al Qaeda and its allies would have succeeded in launching another attack against the American homeland.

[This is quite simply a lie, period.]

These military commissions will provide a [un-]fair trial, in which the accused are presumed innocent [guilty], have [limited] access to an attorney, and can [not] hear all the evidence against them.

And now, in memory of the victims of September the 11th, it is my honor to sign the Military Commissions Act of 2006 into law. (Applause.)

Invoking victims of 911 to justify torture and kangaroo courts is just obscene.

Full text of remarks here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/ 2006/10/20061017-1.html

Scott Tribe @ 36

The canadian version of this story on the signed bill mentioned that civil liberty groups are gearing up to challenge this as unconstitutional. Any word on that strategy?

Who cares, that’s just a piece of paper, that is confetti by now?

I was astounded when the local TV news (market ratings leader, to boot…) ‘teased’ their upcoming coverage of this atrocity to the people, Constitution and Bill of Rights as ‘important new anti-terror bill.’

lord. A day that will live in infamy.

Is that MOF recipient Tenant?

If you look real close you can almost see the erections.

As someone who appreciates erections as much as the next person, I have to say none of these are very appealing.

Scott Tribe @ 36

The canadian version of this story on the signed bill mentioned that civil liberty groups are gearing up to challenge this as unconstitutional. Any word on that strategy?

Last I heard, ACLU was geared up to take this to SCOTUS, but I have no confirmation or source. I believe it was mentioned in one of the earlier threads today.

gleex @ 41

Is that MOF recipient Tenant?

I think you mean Medal Of Freedom Owner, or MOFO.

UnWell-Behaved Woman @
18

It can get worse; Dems could win in 21 days and the GOP could manipulate voting machines, threaten or disenfranchise voters, and shred or hide ballots to steal it. Again. Or…a “terrorist” attack could make it so that President Bush has to “postpone” the elections for security reasons. Don’t kid yourself. It could get a whole lot worse. And probably will.

It is my fervent hope (after my display of depression in the last thread) that this election is too wide-spread to effectively cheat. That 60-plus races in scattered districts across the country won’t easily lend themselves to the kind of manipulation we experienced in a few state’s counties in 2000 & 2004. That the sudden change in voter’s moods in the last five weeks before the election won’t give them time to set up the fix. (Holds up a nice tall glass of Island Blonde, a craft beer from Carpinteria California): Here’s to our winning this one!

My real fear with the Sadist Protection law is that it won’t be used against foreign terrorists but against any American who aids our enemies by criticizing the White House… or even telling a crude joke about Bush being stupid.

marksb @ 45

UnWell-Behaved Woman @
18

It can get worse; Dems could win in 21 days and the GOP could manipulate voting machines, threaten or disenfranchise voters, and shred or hide ballots to steal it. Again. Or…a “terrorist” attack could make it so that President Bush has to “postpone” the elections for security reasons. Don’t kid yourself. It could get a whole lot worse. And probably will.

It is my fervent hope (after my display of depression in the last thread) that this election is too wide-spread to effectively cheat. That 60-plus races in scattered districts across the country won’t easily lend themselves to the kind of manipulation we experienced in a few state’s counties in 2000 & 2004. That the sudden change in voter’s moods in the last five weeks before the election won’t give them time to set up the fix. (Holds up a nice tall glass of Island Blonde, a craft beer from Carpinteria California): Here’s to our winning this one!

Diebold is just the emergency backup if the vote suppression isn’t sufficient.

Eli @ 31

Mad Dogs @ 26

J

Yes, let’s go party.

The guy in the back looks suspiciously like a guy TeddySanFran dated in the late ’70’s. Castro Clone, all the way…

Sometimes I get this creepy feeling we are the modern version of the French underground, no?

JennyftB & Eli,

Never-published photos, and an internal Army report, show more Iraqi prisoner abuse — evidence the government is fighting to hide.

Editor’s note: Salon published a more extensive archive of photos from Abu Ghraib on March 14, 2006. That archive is available here.

http://salon.com/news/feature/…..bu_ghraib/

Human-rights and civil-liberties groups have been locked in a legal battle with the Department of Defense since mid-2004, demanding that it release the remaining visual documents from Abu Ghraib in its possession. It is not clear whether the material obtained by Salon is identical to that sought by these groups, although it seems highly likely that it is.

Sitting here at Diane Benson Central on Northern Light Blvd in midtown Anchorage with the crew stuffing envelopes. We’re sending out a mailing appealing for TV $.

Diane’s here being interviewed by the local CBS affiliate – Channel 11 news. Kris Pierce, her always-juggling campaign manager is sitting next to me trying not to laugh so hard we disturb the interview – we’re looking at the new chart of the Abramoff Dirty Dozen.

Kris says Thanks, firedoglake!!! and egregious and suzanne and the rest of Diane Benson’s supporters here.

Eli @ 44

gleex @ 41

Is that MOF recipient Tenant?

I think you mean Medal Of Freedom Owner, or MOFO.

one of the largest law firms in SF is Morrison & Foerster LLP. check them out at http://www.mofo.com

cbl @ 50

JennyftB & Eli,

Never-published photos, and an internal Army report, show more Iraqi prisoner abuse — evidence the government is fighting to hide.

Editor’s note: Salon published a more extensive archive of photos from Abu Ghraib on March 14, 2006. That archive is available here.

http://salon.com/news/feature/…..bu_ghraib/

Human-rights and civil-liberties groups have been locked in a legal battle with the Department of Defense since mid-2004, demanding that it release the remaining visual documents from Abu Ghraib in its possession. It is not clear whether the material obtained by Salon is identical to that sought by these groups, although it seems highly likely that it is.

The very first thing I notice is that the faces are blurred out.

Remember when the administration claimed it didn’t want to release the photos because it would embarrass the torturees?

RevDeb – I’d like a follow up question to that – If you don’t get your seniority, who would you caucus with? Apparently that’s his blackmail condition – no seniority/no Dem caucus.

Here’s the question(s) I sent in:

Clark Kent Ervin, the conservative Texas Republican who came to Washington to become the Inspector General of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) (and who is a personal friend of the President’s, having served in his gubernatorial administration), has stated in his new book, “Open Target,” that the GOP has created a risk “vulnerability gap” and that the Bush administration is all but indifferent to protecting the American people from further terrorism. He also indicates that the administration’s sole concern appears to be to use DHS to dole out political pork, create politically attractive news releases, and spin failure so that it looks like success.

My question(s) to Senator Lieberman are: What role has the Senate Committee on Homeland Security played in performing oversight of the DHS? Do you object to the way the administration has handled the issue of national security? Why do you think negating habeas corpus or allowing the administration to engage in torture (per the Military Commissions Act of 2006) is the correct course to take?

1,305 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hamsher:

I feel ya Janie…please see Aurther Silber’s piece linked in Eschaton this AM. We aren’t dead yet but the vultures are circling…this election must be made into a major anti-fascist campaign to create a popular front that makes the Democratic Party a big tent to cover non-fascist Republicans.

Anyone who backed off opposing the 2 Federalist Society goons on the supremem court should be made to do ward duty on an orthopeadic ward at Walter Reed Army Medical Center…and we must not back down from using the “F” word from now on to characterize EVERYONE who enables this administration and the corporate oligarcy it represents.

Now it has become clear to most why the fascists are fightin’ so hard for Ol’ Joe Lieberman…if the Dems get the Senate (even by 2 votes 51-49) then impeachment is definately in the cards and there will be no cover for anyone who supports this administration and is up for election in ‘08.

KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER, THESE FOLKS ARE THE REAL THING!!!

Jesus was tortured and executed on hersey without seeing his accusers nor the evidence against him. It was based on his “confession”.

Here are some selections from S3930 The Torture and Kangaroo Courts Act of 2006:

Sec. 948a. Definitions
In this chapter:
(1) UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT- (A) The term `unlawful enemy combatant’ means–
(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or
(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.

The principal importance of this definition is that it allows American citizens to be designated as unlawful enemy combatants. Purposeful and material support in practical terms can mean virtually anything. You wrote a check to a charity. You knowingly gave a glass of water to someone who was thirsty and whom the government didn’t like.

And who will make the determination that this vague, amorphous bar has been met? A tribunal set up by Bush and Rumsfeld. With this, you can take your copy of the Constitution and use it for toilet paper because that’s about the only use left for it.

SEC. 5. TREATY OBLIGATIONS NOT ESTABLISHING GROUNDS FOR CERTAIN CLAIMS.
(a) In General- No person may invoke the Geneva Conventions or any protocols thereto in any habeas corpus or other civil action or proceeding to which the United States, or a current or former officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent of the United States is a party as a source of rights in any court of the United States or its States or territories.

Individuals tortured by us shall have no grounds for a claim in a US court and torturers and those who condone and order torture are immunized.

SEC. 6. IMPLEMENTATION OF TREATY OBLIGATIONS.
(3) INTERPRETATION BY THE PRESIDENT-
(A) As provided by the Constitution and by this section, the President has the authority for the United States to interpret the meaning and application of the Geneva Conventions and to promulgate higher standards and administrative regulations for violations of treaty obligations which are not grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions.
(B) The President shall issue interpretations described by subparagraph (A) by Executive Order published in the Federal Register.
(C) Any Executive Order published under this paragraph shall be authoritative (except as to grave breaches of common Article 3) as a matter of United States law, in the same
manner as other administrative regulations.

The Geneva Conventions/torture mean what Bush says they mean. You know trust Bush because he’s shown in oh so many ways that he can be trusted, right?

SEC. 7. HABEAS CORPUS MATTERS.
(e)(1) No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.
(2) Except as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3) of section 1005(e) of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 (10 U.S.C. 801 note), no court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider any other action against the United States or its agents relating to any aspect of the detention, transfer, treatment, trial, or conditions of confinement of an alien who is or was detained by the United States and has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.’.

See above. If you are declared an unlawful enemy combatant, even if you are an American citizen, you shall have no right to challenge your detention or your treatment including torture. This means that Bush et al can throw anyone, including American citizens, deemed an “enemy combatant” by their cardboard tribunals into a deep, dark hole never to be heard from again.

This section also effectively negates any reason for trial by Military Commission/kangaroo court and turns them into “show trials”. While only non-US citizens are subject to trial by Military Commissions, it is important to realize that even if tried and acquitted, these aliens can still be held forever because even after an acquital they will continue to have no habeas corpus rights and so have no means to question any further detention, or torture. It’s Kafkaesque.

Americans citizens don’t even get the show trial. They can not be tried by these Commissions but they can be held forever without charge or trial or right to habeas corpus.

Why isn’t Holy Joe in this picture? He loves torture just as much as Bush. Poor Joe must feel left out, after his vote and all.

Preacher says that Hastert promised God to quit congress over his sins and has now broken his promise to GOD.

Oh- that’s bad Denny- that’s VERY bad.

bookwoman @ 58

Why isn’t Holy Joe in this picture? He loves torture just as much as Bush. Poor Joe must feel left out, after his vote and all.

they sent him to the boiler room with his stapler

Blank Kludge @ 40

I was astounded when the local TV news (market ratings leader, to boot…) ‘teased’ their upcoming coverage of this atrocity to the people, Constitution and Bill of Rights as ‘important new anti-terror bill.’

lord. A day that will live in infamy.

There’s nobody at the station that understands, or cares to understand, what this means. The folks who actually critically think about news have been long gone from the broadcast industry, especially local “news”, in favor of “reporting” as a tool to entertain us viewers so we reliably tune in and the station can sell us stuff. It’s just the shopping channel except we only see the displayed merchandise every six minutes or so. They have to spin it into positive “news”, just yap-dog the official line so they keep the “news” positive for a half-hour and keep us happy so we go out and buy the beer and cars and loans and trinkets they sell us. Sorry, I’m getting depressed again.

Roll call of dishonor:

Democrats who voted for S3930 in the Senate: 12, and yes, Joe was one of them.
Carper (D-DE)
Johnson (D-SD)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Stabenow (D-MI)

House Democrats who voted for S3930 the torture and kangaroo courts bill: 32
Andrews________Gordon
Barrow_________Herseth
Bean___________Higgins
Bishop (GA) ____Holden
Boren__________ Marshall
Boswell_________Matheson
Boyd __________ McIntyre
Brown (OH) _____Moore (KS)
Chandler________Peterson (MN)
Crame __________Pomeroy
Cuellar__________Ross
Davis (AL) _______Salazar
Davis (TN) _______Scott (GA)
Edwards_________Spratt
Etheridge________Tanner
Ford____________Taylor (MS)

I also think those brave souls who didn’t vote should also be recognized for their courageous lack of effort and absence of conviction.

Not Voting: 12
Burgess_______ Lewis (GA)
Case_______ Meehan
Castle_______ Ney
Evans_______ Strickland
Fattah_______ Thompson (MS)
Foley_______ Wilson (SC)

rwcole @ 59

Preacher says that Hastert promised God to quit congress over his sins and has now broken his promise to GOD.

Oh- that’s bad Denny- that’s VERY bad.

Why does God hate America???

It seems that Rove et al are running multiple plans and games. Maybe those plans and games run out in November, but probably not. I’m eager for the current work and hope for the election to continue, but also to for us to have our eyes wide open with knowledge and courage to really look at the seaminess.

So what multiple plans are developing on this side? A Dem majority that does nothing? What then? A stolen election? Are we going to be ready right away or will we try to debate this with futile civility? We have to give some serious thought to next steps, rather than sit around as dumbfounded as I was in Nov of 2000, 2002, and 2004. And we can always find the joy if such forethought proves unnecessary.

After the 2000 election debacle, I was saddened to discover my own naivete and my distancing friends kept calling me radical. My father-in-law absolutely refuses to look at the dissonance between the Constitution he champions and the reality of current affairs.

Show the pictures.

It is what our tax money is buying, it is what the money of our own labor is paying for, and we’d better be able to recognize the source of the blowback from other countries and use the evidence to fuel our own sense of purpose and opposition to the perpetrators of this travesty.

Hugh @ 62

Roll call of dishonor:

Democrats who voted for S3930 in the Senate: 12, and yes, Joe was one of them.
Carper (D-DE)
Johnson (D-SD)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Stabenow (D-MI)

House Democrats who voted for S3930 the torture and kangaroo courts bill: 32
Andrews________Gordon
Barrow_________Herseth
Bean___________Higgins
Bishop (GA) ____Holden
Boren__________ Marshall
Boswell_________Matheson
Boyd __________ McIntyre
Brown (OH) _____Moore (KS)
Chandler________Peterson (MN)
Crame __________Pomeroy
Cuellar__________Ross
Davis (AL) _______Salazar
Davis (TN) _______Scott (GA)
Edwards_________Spratt
Etheridge________Tanner
Ford____________Taylor (MS)

I also think those brave souls who didn’t vote should also be recognized for their courageous lack of effort and absence of conviction.

Not Voting: 12
Burgess_______ Lewis (GA)
Case_______ Meehan
Castle_______ Ney
Evans_______ Strickland
Fattah_______ Thompson (MS)
Foley_______ Wilson (SC)

I think Chafee does deserve kudos for being the lone Republican senator to vote against torture. Although I wonder if he would have done so had he not been fighting for his senatorial life in an ultrablue state.

It seems that Rove et al are running multiple plans and games. Maybe those plans and games run out in November, but probably not. I’m eager for the current work and hope for the election to continue, but also for us to have our eyes wide open with knowledge and courage to really look at the seaminess.

So what multiple plans are developing on this side? A Dem majority that does nothing? What then? A stolen election? Are we going to be ready right away or will we try to debate this with futile civility? We have to give some serious thought to next steps, rather than sit around as dumbfounded as I was in Nov of 2000, 2002, and 2004. And we can always find the joy if such forethought proves unnecessary.

After the 2000 election debacle, I was saddened to discover my own naivete and my distancing friends kept calling me radical. My father-in-law absolutely refuses to look at the dissonance between the Constitution he champions and the reality of current affairs.

Show the pictures.

It is what our tax money is buying, it is what the money of our own labor is paying for, and we’d better be able to recognize the source of the blowback from other countries and use the evidence to fuel our own sense of purpose and opposition to the perpetrators of this travesty.

Hugh @ 62

Roll call of dishonor:

Democrats who voted for S3930 in the Senate: 12, and yes, Joe was one of them.
Carper (D-DE)
Johnson (D-SD)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Stabenow (D-MI)

House Democrats who voted for S3930 the torture and kangaroo courts bill: 32
Andrews________Gordon
Barrow_________Herseth
Bean___________Higgins
Bishop (GA) ____Holden
Boren__________ Marshall
Boswell_________Matheson
Boyd __________ McIntyre
Brown (OH) _____Moore (KS)
Chandler________Peterson (MN)
Crame __________Pomeroy
Cuellar__________Ross
Davis (AL) _______Salazar
Davis (TN) _______Scott (GA)
Edwards_________Spratt
Etheridge________Tanner
Ford____________Taylor (MS)

I also think those brave souls who didn’t vote should also be recognized for their courageous lack of effort and absence of conviction.

Not Voting: 12
Burgess_______ Lewis (GA)
Case_______ Meehan
Castle_______ Ney
Evans_______ Strickland
Fattah_______ Thompson (MS)
Foley_______ Wilson (SC)

My emphasis is quite apt in the current situation, yes?

I got the following response from the SoS in Louisiana:

Dear Concerned Citizen:

Thank you for your email regarding the upcoming election. We are responding to inform you that the State of Louisiana presently has provisions in place to be able to offer emergency paper ballots at our polling places, if necessary. If these ballots are used, they are counted as regular ballots and not as provisional ballots. However, for all Federal Elections we do have paper ballots for provisional voting which are required under the Federal Help America Vote Act (“HAVA”), and which must be counted as provisional ballots. We also are required by law to advertise all of our polling places, and if any polling place is required to be moved due to an emergency, we have provisions in place for notifying the candidates and the general public. Louisiana has been a leader in elections for decades and has enjoyed a very successful statewide voter registration system, while other states were forced to put such measures in place under HAVA. We also were able to put one statewide voting system in place for 2006 under HAVA and all of our polling places are equipped with the same voting machines and same procedures. Our citizens have enjoyed almost 15 years of voting on our system in all of our metropolitan parishes, and recently all of our citizens in all of our parishes had the opportunity to vote on the new system at the September election and will have the opportunity again for the Federal Elections and all future elections.

Again, we thank you for your concern and attention to elections. It is one of our most precious rights and it is our goal for all citizens to participate in the process!

Yours very truly,

AL ATER
SECRETARY OF STATE

When I was training for polling commissioner, I noticed there’s no paper trail on those machines.

Bustednuckles #67,

LOL, my subconscious must have been at work.

So “purposefully and materially supported” could mean using a broadband Net connection to post to YouTube or a commercial or non-commercial blog site, to challenge the President and his administration’s policy in regard to any activity deemed a part of the WOT. Am I reading too much into this? Seems that could be a possibility. “You’re either with us or the terrorists.”
Damn.

dhl @
4

things get better 21 days from today.

maybe not

it looks like north korea is preparing for a second nuclear test

I happen to be of the opinion this should not happen and I support a surgical strike directed on the infrastructure

I know some of you think that’s a bit much, but that’s where I stand

if the president does do that the republicans will regain the “strong on defense” image that they’ve been able to propagate

me to me @ 71

dhl @
4

things get better 21 days from today.

maybe not

it looks like north korea is preparing for a second nuclear test

I happen to be of the opinion this should not happen and I support a surgical strike directed on the infrastructure

I know some of you think that’s a bit much, but that’s where I stand

if the president does do that the republicans will regain the “strong on defense” image that they’ve been able to propagate

Bye-bye, Seoul…

gleex @ 56

Jesus was tortured and executed on hersey without seeing his accusers nor the evidence against him. It was based on his “confession”.

That’s really good! I know exactly who is going to be on the receiving end of this point.

Marc @
46

My real fear with the Sadist Protection law is that it won’t be used against foreign terrorists but against any American who aids our enemies by criticizing the White House… or even telling a crude joke about Bush being stupid.

It’s a law designed with the intention to do exactly what you fear most. We no longer can wonder if it’s happening but to how many and for how long.

“I feel that if our constitutional system ever fails, it will be because people got scared
and turned hysterical and someone in power will demagogue them right into a police state of some kind. That’s what I’ve always worried about. And still do.”

Harry S Truman

“We have now sunk to a depth where the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.”

George Orwell

Its up to SCOTUS to declare this illegal.

Lastly, not one but TWO Democratic Senators from NJ voted for this.

mentioned this yesterday -

In April 88, the US signed The United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (UNCAT)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U…..st_Torture

here are the signatories through 9/06 -

http://www.ohchr.org/english/c…..tion/9.htm

take a gander at those who have not signed – I’m sure they’ll welcome the newest member with open arms. . .or boiling pots

forgive my lack of subtlety, but this was Ronald Reagan and Jeanne Kirkpatrick, you know, the folks with a couple thousand Soviet nukes pointed at ‘em – and they felt ok about signing on against this

marksb @ 70

So “purposefully and materially supported” could mean using a broadband Net connection to post to YouTube or a commercial or non-commercial blog site, to challenge the President and his administration’s policy in regard to any activity deemed a part of the WOT. Am I reading too much into this? Seems that could be a possibility. “You’re either with us or the terrorists.”
Damn.

In short, yes, both because the criteria are unconstitutional vague and because the “tribunals” that make the determination are chosen by Bush and Rumsfeld and can be stacked.

punaise @ 60

bookwoman @ 58

Why isn’t Holy Joe in this picture? He loves torture just as much as Bush. Poor Joe must feel left out, after his vote and all.

they sent him to the boiler room with his stapler

LOL

Eli–I’m all for forceful limitations on nuclear proliferation- but everything I’ve read says that a strike on North Korea is likely to be a disaster.

Some things are just not practical- and that may be one of em.

rwcole @ 79

Eli–I’m all for forceful limitations on nuclear proliferation- but everything I’ve read says that a strike on North Korea is likely to be a disaster.

Some things are just not practical- and that may be one of em.

NK does not need nukes to pound Seoul flat, and I don’t think they would hesitate to do so if attacked. Presumably any American troops in the neutral zone would also be toast.

What’s more likely is that Clusterfuck stages another kind of confrontation with North Korea- such as stopping an boarding it’s ships on the high seas to show some muscle before the elecion. He’d be willing to blow a ship out of the water- and that would make his gooper supporters cream their jeans.

We’re gonna win.

I happen to be of the opinion this should not happen and I support a surgical strike directed on the infrastructure

me to me – reserving judgement on your comment, but a surgical strike with what ? and is it safe to assume from your comment that the Chinese will be ok with a military response from the US ?

“gonna win”

startin to look that way- for the house at least- but don’t count yer money while yer sittin at the table- there’ll be time enough for countin- when the dealin’s done.

You know, it may be late for this, but an infusion of cash into the DCCC for use in the suddenly competitive campaigns is something several people have noted. But the DCCC is short on funds. Carville was quoted as saying that the DCCC should go to a bank and borrow 5 million dollars.

Josh points out that the warchests being accumulated by 08 candidates would seem to be a more likely source:

There are a handful of Dems out there gearing up to run for president in 2008. Some are even running for office this year. And, as they must, they’re building up huge warchests to finance those 2008 campaigns and demonstrate their credibility as candidates.

Right now though there are a perhaps as many as a few dozen House races around the country who don’t have a lot of money but are suddenly in races they might actually be able to win. This is what James Carville was talking about a few days ago when he said the Dems should go to the bank and outright borrow money to pump a few hundred thousand dollars into each one of those races.

If we could get a million or so out of each of those warchests, it could make a difference. Should we make some calls?

Let me put that differently. I’m going to make a call. Should we try to pursue this in a more concerted way?

Clinton warned Kim Il Sung that he would strike militarily if North Korea tried to reprocess the nuclear fuel rods for bomb making materials but at the same time secretly recruited Jimmy Carter to negotiate “on his own” with Pyongyang. This worked. Now it is a question of closing the barndoor after the horse is long gone. We are tied down in Iraq. We haven’t been negotiating seriously with the North Koreans. And our threats are a lot less credible today.

So I agree with Eli that a military strike now could lead to the destruction of Seoul and 100,000 dead.

This one is too easy to run with.

Foley to accept offer of lessons
counseling from Catholic Church.

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/bl…..index.html

rwcole @ 81

What’s more likely is that Clusterfuck stages another kind of confrontation with North Korea- such as stopping an boarding it’s ships on the high seas to show some muscle before the elecion. He’d be willing to blow a ship out of the water- and that would make his gooper supporters cream their jeans.

Bye-bye, Seoul…

rwcole -

He’d be willing to blow a ship out of the water- and that would make his gooper supporters cream their jeans.

now that is something the Chinese would probably let him get away with – but still places the 37000 US Troops at risk

“Troops at risk”

Yeah but they’re VOLUNTEERS–see!

jayackroyd @
85

You know, it may be late for this, but an infusion of cash into the DCCC for use in the suddenly competitive campaigns is something several people have noted. But the DCCC is short on funds. Carville was quoted as saying that the DCCC should go to a bank and borrow 5 million dollars.

Josh points out that the warchests being accumulated by 08 candidates would seem to be a more likely source:

There are a handful of Dems out there gearing up to run for president in 2008. Some are even running for office this year. And, as they must, they’re building up huge warchests to finance those 2008 campaigns and demonstrate their credibility as candidates.

Right now though there are a perhaps as many as a few dozen House races around the country who don’t have a lot of money but are suddenly in races they might actually be able to win. This is what James Carville was talking about a few days ago when he said the Dems should go to the bank and outright borrow money to pump a few hundred thousand dollars into each one of those races.

If we could get a million or so out of each of those warchests, it could make a difference. Should we make some calls?

Let me put that differently. I’m going to make a call. Should we try to pursue this in a more concerted way?

TPM follow-up:

There are two key reasons why I would be surprised if any of the 2008 hopefuls with plenty of campaign cash were to give very much to house candidates who may need it to get over the top. The first is the fact that there is no mechanism to punish the stingy. 15 months from now, primary voters will be thinking about what candidate most represents them or is most electable. The fact they didn’t help their fellow dems in time of need will be well-forgotten if it was ever noticed in the first place.

The more important point is that astute strategists will feel at best ambivalent about a dem takeover of congress knowing that chances for a dem to reach the whitehouse with the same party ensconsed in congress is reduced to say the least.[…]

Wth regard to North Korea, you need a policy before you have policy options. We don’t have a policy and throwing a hissy fit doesn’t count as one.

Bush has refused to negotiate with the North as if talking with them was some kind of a concession. And Bush will only to talk to them if they agree up front to everything he wants. Bush prefers no deal to a bad deal. He doesn’t seem to realize that no deal is the worst deal of all.

The 4th Reich has begun. Already the gestapo detains demonstrators, bans books like “America Deceived” from Amazon, conducts warrant-less wiretaps, uses false-flag operations (9/11) and starts illegal wars based on lies. We are the new Hitler. Much of Germany did not know what was going on until it was too late. We can probably agree that the WWII German populace was far more intelligent that today’s average American. How long until they realize?
Final link (before Google Books caves to pressure and drops the title):
America Deceived (book)

This is how fascism happens. In increments.

With smiling officials signing new laws, with news outlets blithely ignoring the outrages, with elected officials pretending nothing extraordinary has happened as they quietly slip a shiv between the ribs of democracy.

CNN is now dedicated to makin Harry Reid look like a felon for reporting real estate ownership and sale as a partnership rather than a LLC.

Nothing on CNN to indicate why this matters in any way- but they are drawing the conclusion that dems have a culture of corruption.

Sometimes it’s hard to distinguish the evil from the criminally stupid.

Hugh @ 86

Clinton warned Kim Il Sung that he would strike militarily if North Korea tried to reprocess the nuclear fuel rods for bomb making materials but at the same time secretly recruited Jimmy Carter to negotiate “on his own” with Pyongyang. This worked. Now it is a question of closing the barndoor after the horse is long gone. We are tied down in Iraq. We haven’t been negotiating seriously with the North Koreans. And our threats are a lot less credible today.

So I agree with Eli that a military strike now could lead to the destruction of Seoul and 100,000 dead.

I can foresee scenarios that range from a few casualties to all-out war. The principle thing that would determine what happens is Kim Jong Il’s perception of what’s in his and/or his country’s best interests, which is something that no one other than Kim Jong Il has a handle on, I think.

South Korea isn’t some hapless potential victim. I’m not convinced that if a war broke out in Korea that they’d be the losers. Their active forces are smaller than NK’s, but they’re generally better equipped and I suspect they’re also better trained. SK’s economy can support a sustained war much better than the North’s can.

The only sure thing about such a confrontation is that once it starts in earnest no one will be in control of how it turns out.

Update: Almost got N Korea’s name right this time. It’s “Kim Jong Il” not “Kim Il Jong”.

John Mitchell, Nixon’s attorney general, essentially created the conspiracy laws to get at the war protesters. He served 19 months in prison on conviction of conspiracy among other offences.
Dare we hope?

GW Clusterfuck has been having six pack talks with North Korea for years

Kim Yung Jil, George makes me ill. We are no longer different politically speaking. Our technology, dwindling wealth, line of credit and false self image (and taste in fashion) are what separates us from the Kim Yungs and Osamas.
At least at one time we had our right to a trial and a semi-torture free form of government. They never did.

[correction Kim Il Jong] I tried to google the correct fellow.

I don’t have any good words to blunt the sadness, or stirring words to rally hope for the near future (although I still hope that Kennedy has some scruples left and votes against the whole bloody thing when it reaches the Supreme Court, whenever that challenge comes).

But, I do think it’s time for voodoo dolls and some heavy-duty spells. Nothing else has stopped these bastards.

Cujo359 @ 96

Hugh @ 86

Clinton warned Kim Il Sung that he would strike militarily if North Korea tried to reprocess the nuclear fuel rods for bomb making materials but at the same time secretly recruited Jimmy Carter to negotiate “on his own” with Pyongyang. This worked. Now it is a question of closing the barndoor after the horse is long gone. We are tied down in Iraq. We haven’t been negotiating seriously with the North Koreans. And our threats are a lot less credible today.

So I agree with Eli that a military strike now could lead to the destruction of Seoul and 100,000 dead.

I can foresee scenarios that range from a few casualties to all-out war. The principle thing that would determine what happens is Kim Il Jong’s perception of what’s in his and/or his country’s best interests, which is something that no one other than Kim Il Jong has a handle on, I think.

South Korea isn’t some hapless potential victim. I’m not convinced that if a war broke out in Korea that they’d be the losers. Their active forces are smaller than NK’s, but they’re generally better equipped and I suspect they’re also better trained. SK’s economy can support a sustained war much better than the North’s can.

The only sure thing about such a confrontation is that once it starts in earnest no one will be in control of how it turns out.

I’m not speculating on whether SK could defeat NK militarily or not. I’m simply stating that NK has enough conventional ballistic weapons aimed at Seoul to smash it flat before anyone could stop them.

Any strike (I can’t believe I’m even talking about this seriously) would probably have to target those ballistic batteries for Seoul to have a chance of survival.

Marc @
46

My real fear with the Sadist Protection law is that it won’t be used against foreign terrorists but against any American who aids our enemies by criticizing the White House… or even telling a crude joke about Bush being stupid.

Or waving a flag… The Progressive found this article from Davenport, Iowa.

watertiger’s take on the signing

me to me @ 71

dhl @
4

things get better 21 days from today.

maybe not

it looks like north korea is preparing for a second nuclear test

I happen to be of the opinion this should not happen and I support a surgical strike directed on the infrastructure

I know some of you think that’s a bit much, but that’s where I stand

if the president does do that the republicans will regain the “strong on defense” image that they’ve been able to propagate

A “surgical strike” might be eminently the right thing to do, but when you factor in the people who would be responsible for “planning” and executing it, that strike would be a huge mistake. Huge. And with huge numbers of Americans believing that Bush was not truthful about Iraq, and disapproving of how he has prosectuted the war, I simply do not believe significant numbers of people would rally behind Bush attacking North Korea. This president, vice president and secretary of defense have been unable to successfuly plan and execute a “conventional” war – that they would engage in any action where nuclear weapons might be involved would get minimal support here at home – regardless of the scare tactics they use.

Eli @ 101

I’m not speculating on whether SK could defeat NK militarily or not. I’m simply stating that NK has enough conventional ballistic weapons aimed at Seoul to smash it flat before anyone could stop them.

Any strike (I can’t believe I’m even talking about this seriously) would probably have to target those ballistic batteries for Seoul to have a chance of survival.

Yes, but I think it’s safe to assume that any calculation Kim Jong Il makes in that regard will take that into account. He may not expect them to react, but if he thinks they’d take the destruction of their principle city (with one quarter of SKorea’s population) lying down he really is barking mad.

Cujo359 @ 105

Eli @ 101

I’m not speculating on whether SK could defeat NK militarily or not. I’m simply stating that NK has enough conventional ballistic weapons aimed at Seoul to smash it flat before anyone could stop them.

Any strike (I can’t believe I’m even talking about this seriously) would probably have to target those ballistic batteries for Seoul to have a chance of survival.

Yes, but I think it’s safe to assume that any calculation Kim Jong Il makes in that regard will take that into account. He may not expect them to react, but if he thinks they’d take the destruction of their principle city (with one quarter of SKorea’s population) lying down he really is barking mad.

I don’t think Kim’s crazy enough to strike first, but I think he’ll do pretty much anything if he’s attacked – I think he’ll figure he has nothing to lose, might as well take as many down with him as he can.

I’m not speculating on whether SK could defeat NK militarily or not. I’m simply stating that NK has enough conventional ballistic weapons aimed at Seoul to smash it flat before anyone could stop them.

In other words there would be dead people everywhere, but hey, that’s okay, we don’t do bodycounts!

Maybe by the time the Bush Crime Family is done with their evil and greed driven agenda those of us lucky enough to be left alive won’t have to worry about overpopulation for awhile. Thanks for small favors? We’ll have to study the cockroaches to find out how to deal with the radiation, but what’s life without a challenge?

Ammo Dump Explosions – media blackout

Vid on UTube

http://www.democraticundergrou…..15;2408466

==Nobody will be dead until after November 7th.

Up until then, they’re on double-super-secret maneuvers.

= Wow – why hasn’t this been on
the main stream media?

=It wouldn’t be prudent

Election just weeks away and a video of what looks like a blast of light followed by a mushroom cloud. Really. What would the neighbors say?

=What would the neighbors say?”

Are sure there are some neighbors left :shrug:

=. It was. Cable channels were showing live footage, as it burned…It was breaking news for quite a while. Then, it was on the evening news, later. But the entire story was superseded by the Lidle airplane crash.
=

Mushroom like cloud is seen over Baghdad as huge explosions rocked the Iraqi capital early Wednesday, Oct. 11, 2006. A fire broke out at an ammunition depot at a U.S. base in southern Baghdad on Tuesday night, setting off a series of explosions from detonating tank
and artillery shells that shook buildings miles away. The U.S. military said there were no
immediate reports of casualties. (AP Photo/Dusan Vranic)

= An Abrams would be much too small to see at that distance.

Those lights in between the camera and the fire are BUILDINGS;
even if they are TINY buildings, that fire was HUGE.

Whatever that was we saw coming down, it was much larger than
a tank.

And that earth-shattering KABOOM that lifted it? There’s just
no way that there were no casualties from that.

No way.
= A building, maybe?

I finally saw it after the 4th watch. I have this weird jaw-dropping reaction that mesmorizes me with the surprise boom every time I watch it.

Anne @ 104

A “surgical strike” might be eminently the right thing to do, but when you factor in the people who would be responsible for “planning” and executing it, that strike would be a huge mistake. Huge. And with huge numbers of Americans believing that Bush was not truthful about Iraq, and disapproving of how he has prosectuted the war, I simply do not believe significant numbers of people would rally behind Bush attacking North Korea. This president, vice president and secretary of defense have been unable to successfuly plan and execute a “conventional” war – that they would engage in any action where nuclear weapons might be involved would get minimal support here at home – regardless of the scare tactics they use.

That’s another of my concerns. I think the strike would go as planned, or at least as well as anything could given the variables, but I have absolutely no confidence in the Administration being able to handle the subsequent diplomacy required to keep the aftermath from turning into a major war.

Hugh @
62

Roll call of dishonor:

Democrats who voted for S3930 in the Senate: 12, and yes, Joe was one of them.
Carper (D-DE)
Johnson (D-SD)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Stabenow (D-MI)

House Democrats who voted for S3930 the torture and kangaroo courts bill: 32
Andrews________Gordon
Barrow_________Herseth
Bean___________Higgins
Bishop (GA) ____Holden
Boren__________ Marshall
Boswell_________Matheson
Boyd __________ McIntyre
Brown (OH) _____Moore (KS)
Chandler________Peterson (MN)
Crame __________Pomeroy
Cuellar__________Ross
Davis (AL) _______Salazar
Davis (TN) _______Scott (GA)
Edwards_________Spratt
Etheridge________Tanner
Ford____________Taylor (MS)

I also think those brave souls who didn’t vote should also be recognized for their courageous lack of effort and absence of conviction.

Not Voting: 12
Burgess_______ Lewis (GA)
Case_______ Meehan
Castle_______ Ney
Evans_______ Strickland
Fattah_______ Thompson (MS)
Foley_______ Wilson (SC)

Hugh, could you or someone post this everyday, like you do for the gas prices? I think we need to see this. What is is that the Fremen say, “We will never forget, and we will never forgive.”

Cujo359 @ 109

Anne @ 104

A “surgical strike” might be eminently the right thing to do, but when you factor in the people who would be responsible for “planning” and executing it, that strike would be a huge mistake. Huge. And with huge numbers of Americans believing that Bush was not truthful about Iraq, and disapproving of how he has prosectuted the war, I simply do not believe significant numbers of people would rally behind Bush attacking North Korea. This president, vice president and secretary of defense have been unable to successfuly plan and execute a “conventional” war – that they would engage in any action where nuclear weapons might be involved would get minimal support here at home – regardless of the scare tactics they use.

That’s another of my concerns. I think the strike would go as planned, or at least as well as anything could given the variables, but I have absolutely no confidence in the Administration being able to handle the subsequent diplomacy required to keep the aftermath from turning into a major war.

Use of military force on China’s doorstep is a dangerous, dangerous game, IMHO.

The law is a dead law.

It’s for political purposes only.

The law is unconstitutional; I believe it doesn’t even address what S.C. Justice Kenndy was complaning about in the Hamdan case.

Military won’t use the law until it passes the Supreme Court. No chance of that happening.

People are working on detainee cases that will challenge it soon, and have a Federal Judge shut it down until trial is over.

The military lawyer Swift, who won the Hamdan Case, has looked at the law and says it’s unconstitutional. Shouldn’t be a problem knocking it down.

Again, It’s only “red meat” for the GOP idiots.

The Bill of Rights is defunct.

Darkness has decended upon the US.

America’s contribution to the betterment of humanity is officially homeless.
.

gak @ 113

The Bill of Rights is defunct.

Second Amendment is still going strong.

Eli @ 114

gak @ 113

The Bill of Rights is defunct.

Second Amendment is still going strong.

So is ammunition sales. *g*

Eli @ 106

I don’t think Kim’s crazy enough to strike first, but I think he’ll do pretty much anything if he’s attacked – I think he’ll figure he has nothing to lose, might as well take as many down with him as he can.

I’m referrinng to how he’d retaliate. He won’t strike first. I think he’s smart enough to realize that he doesn’t want war with the south, which is a real possibility if he does anything more than lob a few missiles in the direction of Seoul.

So far, he has no real reason to think we’ll invade. Even a strike clearly aimed at his nuclear capabilities shouldn’t make him afraid of that. War with the south, however, carries that possibility, so it’s actually more dangerous than just being without nuclear weapons.

heckuva a job their bushie…and corrupt, sycophantian, spineless politicians.
.

New thread.

Cujo359 @ 116

Eli @ 106

I don’t think Kim’s crazy enough to strike first, but I think he’ll do pretty much anything if he’s attacked – I think he’ll figure he has nothing to lose, might as well take as many down with him as he can.

I’m referrinng to how he’d retaliate. He won’t strike first. I think he’s smart enough to realize that he doesn’t want war with the south, which is a real possibility if he does anything more than lob a few missiles in the direction of Seoul.

So far, he has no real reason to think we’ll invade. Even a strike clearly aimed at his nuclear capabilities shouldn’t make him afraid of that. War with the south, however, carries that possibility, so it’s actually more dangerous than just being without nuclear weapons.

I hope you’re right. Based on your analysis, his reaction would depend entirely on what he believed our intentions to be. If he thought the strike was prelude to an invasion, he’d have no reason not to trash Seoul.

Lindsey Graham looks very weird in that picture, squeezed between Sensenbrenner and that other extremely large-headed man. (Who is that, Duncan Hunter?) Graham’s head actually looks like it is half the size of Sensenbrenner’s. It’s very strange.

EPU’d from Peterr (way back)

Jesus was tortured at the hands of the religious and political authorities. He was condemned by a military tribunal, operating under some very odd rules of procedure. A pardon was offered, but the cries of the mob for his death ruled it out. He died a painful death given only to slaves and those who rebel against the government.

I couldn’t have said/typed it any better.

I am pretty convinced that we are at the bottom and that the only option for movement is upward. In my worst nightmare I can imagine it being worse but in reality I think we are there. The signing of the torture amendment pretty much signifies the bottom in my book.

See that flag behind those shredders of our Constitution? Picture the infamous image of the Iraqui prisoner at Abu Graib, his arms extended, wires attached to his wrists, and a hood pulled over his head. That image would fit perfectly in each of those 51 five-pointed stars. On Nov. 7 we must re-take our flag from its defilers and work to make real the “Old Glory” it has held the promise to be to its citizens and freedom seekers ’round the world.

Well, when I look at Reid doing nothing, as you say; a Democratic party that enabled the ghastly new legislation by not doing everything it could to stop it; and the fact that not a single Democrat (to my knowledge) is calling for impeachment of the destroyers of the Constitution, it kinda makes me wonder why the hell I should bother voting at all. Maybe to support a good environmentalist congressman like Tom Udall, but Jesus, more than 30 Democratic members of the House voted FOR the torture bill. The Democrats have no idea how serious things are. They’re not even planning to impeach the bastards. And worst of all, they haven’t repudiated the xenophobic, racist, hatemongering Great War on Terror or promised restoration of our basic rights.

Nobody is promising restoration of our basic rights. BOTH parties have broken the covenant. It’s g-o-n-e.

This isn’t the bottom. The fact that we’ve come down so far, so fast already only means we’re still in free fall.

I’ve already started a large painting of the U.S. flag with said images. Not that many people are comfortable looking at political/social works. It’s a dirty job but somebody has to do it.

If you have a flag, put it up at half staff for the next 21 days. It’s the least we can do to indicate a mortal wound to the Constitution.

Our country officially died today.
This is something very serious but, I saw the newspeople report it short and as a happy thing. And no one was shouting out to save our country from this evil.
The one thing I do know for sure. Bush is officially one of the evildoers (and the gop and some democrats) he talks about. We are no longer a good country. We are a rouge. And our dear leader is one the evildoers.

cynthia @
125

I’ve already started a large painting of the U.S. flag with said images. Not that many people are comfortable looking at political/social works. It’s a dirty job but somebody has to do it.

sorry for double post.
I paint too. I was thinking of a painting to do in sorrow for this country’s death.
I thought I’d have ellis island as a detention center for americans and show a person screaming in pain. I haven’t thought it through completely yet to do a rough sketch.

On the other hand — there is always an other hand — the most right I could be is probably 50%.

Say you got me and your Arthur Silbers, etc. on one side, and all the starry-eyed netroots idealists on the other. Neither can exist without the other, metaphysically speaking, and neither can survive without the other, either. If I’m totally cynical, I’ve bought into the evil and feed it with my anger. If I’m a starry-eyed idealist, I deny the the worst that can happen and invite falling into a trap.

The real trick is walking right down the middle where everything gets born.

dlake @ 128

cynthia @
125

I’ve already started a large painting of the U.S. flag with said images. Not that many people are comfortable looking at political/social works. It’s a dirty job but somebody has to do it.

sorry for double post.
I paint too. I was thinking of a painting to do in sorrow for this country’s death.
I thought I’d have ellis island as a detention center for americans and show a person screaming in pain. I haven’t thought it through completely yet to do a rough sketch.

If I may make a suggestion regarding your idea using Ellis Island as a detention center for (native born?) Americans… I think we should use images that are totally contemporary, totally up to the moment, images that speak to every one whether he/she is 14 or 74. I think Ellis Island might be lost on lots of people. Having said that, I think you’re onto something. What do you think about the “Great Wall of America” separating the southwest U.S. from the “hordes” from south of the border?

editorials from canada, uk, australia, korea, even israel — allies in the “war on terror” are overwhelmingly against bush and the iraq war… interesting read.. it’s only this country that stifles the debate

http://www.miserywatch.com/200…..t_the.html

And with a stroak of a pen the REPUBLICANS destroyed what our four fathers fought to create. Can we try those that voted for this bill for TREASON. MY opinion is that the old USSR would have been very proud of these REPUBLICANS, they destroied a nation with a stroak of a pen and the USSR could not do with threats or BOMBS.

law of man , one man specifically, now in place….. be frightened.

I imagine that the Courts will strike down this law, and the Bush administration will defy them. In addition to humiliation in Iraq, we will have a constitutional meltdown in the last two years.

So, let me get this right, if the law survives constitutional challenges, Donald Rumsfeld, as Sec. of Def., would have the power to declare George W. Bush to be an unlawful combatant (since his war of choice in Iraq is helping the ‘terrorists’ to recruit more and more soldiers)?

Makes ya feel warm all over, doesn’t it?

Remember, Rumsfeld is the guy who supposedly had the authority to order air strikes against the hijacked airliners on 9/11, but he was apparently out of the office. He stood down until the World Trade Center towers fell down.

Of course, the Repubs who created this legislation intend to use it for nefarios purposes, one of which is to embarass and control Dems in tight races (like Lieberman or Menendez). However, I don’t understand why Jay Rockefeller would ever vote for it. His seat is pretty secure. It’s incredibly stupid. If this is upheld his seat should become completely unsecure.