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This just in from the AP (via MSNBC): the verdict in Saddam Hussein's trial will be issued on November 5th, when his sentence will also be rendered. Wow, what a coincidence that this date is so close to American elections, eh? Who could have predicted something like that.
But wait, here's the part that made me go, "hmmmmmm:"
That trial adjourned July 27 to allow its five-judge panel to consider a verdict. The court was to have reconvened Monday to hear a verdict.
"The Dujail trial will resume Nov. 5 when the presiding judge will announce the verdict and the sentencing," Juhi said.
Gee, I wonder why the delay? Security concerns due to the increasing violence in Iraq? (Despite Nedra Pickler's steno articles to the contrary, things are not going swimmingly at the moment.) Or that the UK wants out of Iraq, and soon? Any other possible reasons they would push off the sentencing hearing until just before the date of the US elections? Hmmmm…
(H/T to Peterr for the spot on this article.)
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Christy!
Fitz!
Get out the vote and poll watchers too!
Christy: My friend in New Mexico has Vonage phone service, where the caller id can be set to read CT, so that would be perfect. In addition to this, she also pointed out to the Lamont campaign that people could block their caller id when placing calls. Lamont people still refused her offer.
Just a reminder – CSPAN is carrying the Lamont/Lieberman debate today, 1 PM. Hope Ned brings up Loserman’s inability to say if it would be a good thing if dems take over.
Umm, I hear there’s this really neat cruise scheduled in ten days, goes through the Persian Gulf and out to the Arabian Sea to watch the U.S. fleet launch aircraft and missiles against Iran.
Maybe the judges signed up for that….
This got EPUd, so I’m reposting.
The prosecution of Saddam is the ONLY upside outcome from Bush’s Iraq adventure. And indeed Saddam:
– imprisoned and tortured thousands of Iraqis
– killed thens of thousands of Iraqis
– waged an unprovoked war of aggression against a much smaller nation.
To oust and prosecute Saddam, the U.S. under the leadership of George W. Bush
– detained and harshly interrogated tens of thousands of Iraquis
– waged an unprovoked war of aggression against Iraq
– touched off events that have lead to the deaths of 665,000 Iraqis.
And that adventure has cost
– 300 billion near-term dollars
– two trillion dollars in the long term
– 30,000 severely wounded soldiers
– 3000 dead soldiers
– the respect of the world
– the loss of habeus corpus
– the loss of freedom from warrantless search.
Heck of job, Bushie!
definitely makes me go hmmm, but honestly, if this is the surprise rove is pinning the GOP’s campaign hopes on, i’d say that man has little else in the tank but fumes – noxious fumes at that.
The timing of the trial decision is of course set to affect the US elections. But there is a way to turn the reporing of this event around: We can spotlight this article, and others like it, to as much of the trad med/pundits/anchors/panelists/editorial folks as possible, so that if/when the event occurs, it will be reported for what it is: as manipulative and cynical, not as progress in bringing people to justice.
Christy
Interesting post.
Maybe I’m crazy, but gut feeling here is that any Saddam-trial announcement at all near U.S. election day may just infuriate voters here all the more, AGAINST the repubs and in large part because of the current horrific MESOPOTAMIA that used to be Iraq.
Saddam is a certified nasty-guy but…
- our guys ‘n gals weren’t being maimed or killed by the truckload before…
- our country wasn’t resented, even hated, by former friends & allies around the world…
- our needy at home…
- [fill in the blanks]
Christy, for possible future post: there is a fine op-ed by Bob Herbert in today’s NYT about the increasing violence towards women. It’s very well written and important.
It’s behind the wall, but I can extract “select” portions if you need?
Why aren’t we shocked?
The op-ed by Krugman is also worth a read, and ties into the fact that this election is essentially a choice between “D” and “R” in which he makes an exception for Lieberman. Krugman gets it: Lieberman is becoming a pariah in/for the Dem party. The main message: the choice is between D = investigations/exposure and R = no accountability.
scarecrow @
8
Letters to editors in our respective regions should also help expose how manipulative and cynical these rat bastards dare to be on the eve of our national elections.
scarecrow @
9
It appears to me that anything that draws attention to Iraq hurts Bush. In a posting that is awaiting moderation, I enumerated the costs to us and to the Iraqis of ousting and prosecuting Saddam against the evils with which he is charged. There is no way it looks good for Bush.
Adie @ 10
i’m with you on this. other than “yawn” we ought to be able to turn this around on rove and co. and call them out for what they really are – disingenuous manipulators.
Maybe they could also stage a big Victory Day parade on November 5th. Or heck, maybe we could stage one. I mean, as long as we’re doing the show trials we might as well go whole hog.
well there it is, “the october surprise”
big friggin deal
unless of course this is just a diversion to the real ‘october surprise”
Scarecrow at 10 — that would be great — could you e-mail me the bits you think are most pertinent? I’ve been thinking about that as a long-term article prospect, because there have been SO many instances the last few weeks of very violent actions against women of various ages. It’s a disturbing things to see — and I begin to wonder if it gets magnified with copycat actions because there is such a national media focus on that sort of thing, one after another. It’s a tough thing to get a handle on as a national trend — or just something that seems that way based on how the news is covered. But I have seen studies that violent crime is up nationwide at the moment, overall, so it may well be an increase. I’d be interested to see what Herbert has come up with on it. Thanks much!
Bush will address the nation announcing the verdict with a Mission Accomplished sign directly behind the podium.
It would be instructive if reports of Saddam’s conviction were coupled with these kinds of stories/questions: “What is being done to bring to justice the thugs who are daily kidnapping, torturing and executing scores of Iraqi civilians? Why has there been a total breakdown of the most basic principles of civil law and order and security? How responsible are US policies/blunders for creating a daily horror that rivals anything Saddam did?”
Martha Mendoza of the AP had a great story over the weekend, which makes an interesting contrast with the imminent verdict in Saddam’s trial:
Saddam gets sentenced in Iraq in November, and here in the US DHS can’t even charge (or deport) Partovi after five years? Five years? I’m no lawyer, but it seems to me that a writ of habeas corpus would look pretty good right now. Oh, wait a minute . . .
The whole story, with all kinds of twists to it, does not exactly help the sterling reputation of the US system of justice.
Saddam gets a swift trial in Iraq, and Partovi sits and sits and sits and sits . . .
Heckuva job, Bushie!
Ted Lamont’s campaign is so on top of today’s debate – sent out email alert and link to the live 1 PM (EST) event. Whoo Hoo!
Between now and November 5, there is no telling what could happen that might alter the expected date for this announcement; at the rate at which those involved with the trial have been assassinated, I’m not sure we should expect anyone who could render a verdict to still be breathing.
And at the rate things are going, in general, there may not even be an Iraqi government in place on November 5th; how that would affect the Iraqi courts is anyone’s guess, but a coup or a “replacement” of the government will get far more attention, and be less well-received by US voters.
As far as timing it to affect our elections, on my calendar, November 5 is a Sunday, so while it may be timed to hit the Sunday talk shows, I think whatever the verdict is, it will be a “ho-hum” moment for most people. If you remember, the capture of Saddam was supposed to be a turning point, and it was anything but. The administration has touted turning point after turning point since the war began, so pardon me if I fail to think this will be of any significance to the overall disaster that is Iraq.
Somehow, I don’t think this is the October Surprise, but I haven’t a clue what it will be.
newspaperbrat @ 19
NED – jeeze – need more coffee – :~(
November 5 is a Sunday. There must be some talking head shows that could stand to hear about this—a lot—before hand.
What else? The intention is clearly to dominate the last weekend cycle before the election, maybe pre-empt any last minute Friday surprises. What offsets could there be that won’t merely preach to the choir?
From the department of “no wonder he’s been making so much noise” …
Check out Ed*ard Teller’s excellent article about his candidate for Congress in AK:
DIANE BENSON TAKES ON DON YOUNG FOR ALASKA’S ONE HOUSE SEAT, PART I
(BTW, this is a another fine opportunity to use DWT’s SPOTLIGHT feature to send to local AK media)
ET and Egregious are doing fine work for this heroic woman – They are trying to raise money to buy radio spots in AK. So far they’ve got about four day’s worth. I think they would do better with at least seven days – the ones leading right up to the election.
If you can, please give them a hand via Egy’s Act Blue link and/or help spread the good word to others who know what a HORRIBLE excuse for a human Don Young is, and why Diane is an infinitely better replacement.
Neocon show trials? Soon coming to a location near to you!!!
The sentencing will get big U.S. media coverage, but I don’t think that that many people in the U.S. will really care.
I think we should get out the “it’s about time” for this “trial” and embarrass them for this transparent scheme to influence the voters
Anne @ 20
The Sunday timing is not at all being set for our talk shows, but for the beginning of the work week in Iraq. Under Islam, Friday is a day of worship, and Saturday is a day of rest.
Not to say, of course, that the Sunday talk shows in the US won’t discuss this, but here’s a case of the timing being driven by legitimately Iraqi issues.
newspaperbrat @ 23
Darn! I thought “oh boy!, Ned’s gonna let his EVIL Twin, TED debate the LIEberman! This outta be GOOD!” ; )
Here’s the linky for Ned Lamont (Proud Democrat), Alan Schlesinger (Republican) and Joe Lieberman (Lieberman) debate at 1:00
Linky
:-)
My boss just called a meeting for 1 p.m. UGH. I had my popcorn ready to watch the Republican tear into LIEberman! I am sure (hoping) there will be a good thread of comments to read about what i missed. Will anyone be love blogging?
Christy — you’ve got mail. (Herbert)
newspaperbrat @
24
Ted’s going to take Moe to the woodshed
;>)
Thanks for that info, Peterr, but you know the administration will do whatever it can to make the timing work for them. Not sure that’s possible anymore, but the insane clown posse will try anyway.
Robert Paehlke @
27
The folks who planned this don’t care whether many people go for it. They’re after the ones who will act on the last thing they hear.
Mind, I agree that the Wurlitzer is wheezing badly of late, but mercy is not in me toward this crew, so long as it doesn’t ruin other important efforts.
OT: Over at Kos, a poster with a nice article on Poe reminded me of the story “The Business Man,” which reads like a portrait of Shrub, right along with that SNL YouTube from last night. It’s a 5-minute read, and high-larious.
http://tinyurl.com/ylgask
scarecrow – left you an epu’ed reply last thread (and more via email)
I always thought the actual EXECUTION would be on
November 6 or 7. (to be broadcast on Fox, of course) How wrong can one be.
me to me @ 28
It took 6 years to get a port security bill signed by Bush. Meanwhile, the Rethuglican MN governor cut funding for policing and now Mark Kennedy is trying to blame Amy Klobuchar for a doubled murder rate in Minneapolis… and losing bigtime in the polls. It took 6 days before the Bushies announced that yes, there was radioactivity in North Korea… The “what took you so long” meme could have “more legs than a centipede” [hattip to Tweety for that one]
And the shameless NRCC attempt to tie Dem candidates like Patty Wetterling and the Dem running against Chris Shays to the Taliban–so over the line that even Shays was compelled to condemn the advertising.
Maybe the October surprise is there is no surprise…just the same old tired College Rethuglican alumni tactics of smear and slander and LIE.
Get Out OUR Vote!
Uncle Kernie!
This announcemnt will just call attention to the, erm, muppet regime now running Iraq.
Seriously, those most energized by the announcement will likely be the Sunnis, and the result may be a spike in violence in Iraq and more attention on the internal issues facing Iraq. That can’t bee gooper good.
It’s still “controllable” news over here, which is why I think there is some merit to the idea the timing is manipulative, but in the end it will be a small speck on the week’s wall, IMHO.
i think those who pooh, pooh the Hussein verdict are mistaken. Its rovian dastardly manipulation at its finest.
Sure its yawn, chuckle, chuckle for those here who eat, sleep, and breathe this stuff, and who long ago recognized rovian manipulation for the shallow, craven, insidious action that it is. But that’s not the state of most ‘Murkan voters. Hussein’s sentencing, no matter what it is, will be a big sigh of relief for them and give them pause about all those bad thoughts of the invasion and the deaths and the destruction not being worthwhile and Saddam Hussein not being tied to 9/11. Keep in mind, ‘Murkans don’t like to lose – most were rah-rah gunho for the bushliar-criminal’s excellent Iraqi invasion. They’re not too happy about being associated with this FUBAR (its why its taken so long to turn negative on it – because of their complicity). They will grasp at anything that gives the appearance of a victory, even if only temporary.
Hussein’s sentencing will make them forget about the bad news just for a single news cycle, which is all rove needs/wants to get the neanderthals in the voting booths and keep many fence-sitters befuddled enough to not go over the dark side and pull the “D” lever.
And don’t forget what a circus the media – dying to prop up chimpy and the cult of republicanism – will make of this. For the 2 days leading up to the election, it will be non-stop how the bushliar-criminal took down a very bad man.
For the average dullard American, this will be viewed as chimpy making good on his word.
.
Jacqrat @
26
Thanks for the reminder. I headed straight over to egregious’ place to donate. Now, if I can ask a big favor…does anyone know of an ActBlue link for Patty Wetterling?
Much appreciated in advance!
OT, but maybe not. I belong to a discussion group that builds VLF (very low frequency) radios and listens for VLF signals. Today they are reporting signals from the military TACAMO systems, with frequent and quite large signals. TACAMO means “Take Charge and Move Out,” and refers to the system of communications between airplanes and ground that deal with nuclear monitoring. See the Wikipedia article below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TACAMO
Didn’t the Prime Minister (or somebody like that) just kick one of the judges off the panel because he was too cozy with Saddam? How long does it take to find a judge’ adequately biased against Saddam, who is willing to risk being murdered to take his place? No need to take the time to review the evidence, because he is required to vote for conviction, but considering the many judge/lawyer murders, it might be hard to find another sacrificial lamb.
I think only having one day to screech about how Bush, hisownselfpersonally served “justice” to Saddam while giving the big finger to the U.S. Justice System is not enough to bring back all those disillusioned voters to the GOP. Seems to me like if this is their October Surprise, it needs to be in October. Since, as far as I can tell, both the verdict and the sentence are basically forgone, not a big deal for most of us in the United States.
The only reason this is a big accomplishment is because of the extreme danger the judges have placed themselves in. I think they should be pretty hopped about getting this over with and getting the hell out of Dodge before the riots ensue.I do admire the judges and the lawyers for both sides in this, because it has to take a lot of bravery to continue to show up and try to follow your conscience when there are such threats to those who do.
The only reason November 5th is a good day for the announcement, is because it will be too late for most Americans to hear about the ensuing violence. I believe that the civil war will reach new levels after theconviction/death sentence announcement.And I think that is why the Iraqi government is not going to make any effort to control militias until after this is over. Why bother? It is going to get much worse very soon.
Two good examples of males beating up political women are Chris Matthews’ daily snide comments about Hillary Clinton (a woman for president whose husband strayed!) and the O’Reilly rants on the possibility of Nancy Pelosi (a woman yet!) becoming Speaker of the House. If Pelosi becomes Speaker, she will become Hillary-lite for the chauvinists in the media. Males in comparable situations are seldom villified to such an extent.
I agree, the timing of the verdict is awfully suspicious, but I also agree its effect will be minimal at best. So what is the Oct. surprise?
Was it Foley? Which would indicate the wurlitzer has lost it’s mojo.
Is it war against Iran? Has anyone done a post on what the fallout (no pun intended) would be from such an attack? Not the actual hell that would be unleashed on the Middle East (including our 140,000 troops), but the fallout from a desperate incompetent Lame Duck going to such lengths on the eve of an election? Where/how do the Generals come into play on this scenario?
Or is the “Surprise” something else unknown? The capture of bin Laden? An attack on our shores shoots holes in the Goopes current argument of “no attacks on our soil since 9/11 so I don’t think that’s it. A Dem. “Foley” per chance?
From my friend, Tin[foil-hat]man:
this is likely only part of rove’s october surprise. still look for some sort of military action against Iran before election day.
.
So, ya think Saddam will manage to get himself thrown out of the courtroom, again?
Sally @ 45
Sheesh, Sally! Could you quit being so STRIDENT!?!
:)
Jacqrat @ 26
Wow. What a great piece. That picture sent me for a loop. Damn, now that’s my kind of woman! Just because I was catching up on the late night thread, I’ll tell you that picture reminds me of my mom. :)
Another thing to make you go hmmm… apparently Denny “DeNile” Hastert “appointed/ordained” the replacement for Rany “Duke of Traitors” Cunningham.
The special election ended with…you guess it – voting irregularites. So rather than let the people choose he The lowley speaker appointed the Republican to Congress.
Oh, and a federal “non-activist” judge ok’ed this.
In other words screw the voters “We the people”, and let this person decide.
They aint making a plan for if they lose since they are going to steal it again. Whats the excuse this time, they are going to convict an ice cream truck driver of plotting, and that will be the “reason” they pull off an “upset”?
I am “upset”.
froggermarch (50), don’t think so. I’m old as dirt and trying to straighten the world out before I’s a pile of ashes. Please bear with me.
sofistic @
43
Bush is powerless to do anything against Korea or Iran with significant land forces; they’re pinned down because of his Iraq adventure. Aircraft cannot neutralize deep underground fortification via conventional bombs. The military was pushing for the development of nuclear bunkerbusters, but I read that that program was “canceled,” which may mean that it went into the black budget. For a few weeks, I’ve harbored the fear that Bush’s Oct. surprise may be the use of nuclear bunker busters against Korea’s and Iran’s nuclear facilities. Such a strike would surely be preceded by an alert to our undersea nuclear forces. (I hope my fear is totally misplaced.)
my 53 correction. “…I’m a pile….”
Sally @ 53
Anyone as “old as dirt’ has earned the right to say anything they want, anyway they want. Give ‘em hell. {And I’m sure froggermarch was kidding, as you know)
Sally @
54
You’ve got five minutes after you post a comment to clean it up. If you click on “edit this comment” it will appear back in the Reply box at the bottom of the page. Go in, fix the typo, and hit “save” to put it right.
But your five minutes has already started – type like the wind!
Its not the “suprise” as Thom Heartmann (of screwed, saw him on TV – he was a good speaker), its the “excuse” or cover they need to steal the election and pretend that the neocons pulled of a great upset.
Peterr @ 56
Edit comment doesn’t work for lots of us with MS-based PCs. ‘Sides, I liked the original version; a little spice.
Well, this may point to new levels of Bushco delusion.
I don’t think the American public cares about Saddam anymore now that he turns out to have been a living straw man. Many of us would rather just turn the place back over to him and get out. We have been nearly as brutal and our involvement has killed nearly as many people as he has.
I think if Saddam is found guilty and hanged that day there would be a general collective yawn amongst the American public.
What about Osama?
If this is indeed the big fling, they may not be ready for a Sunni backlash against such an action.
That may be the final straw for the volatile region.
But it will make a heck of a newscycle, right karl.
-GSD
sofistic @ 43
Do you have a link to the discussions?
Also, is this primarily for communication with subs?
Between now and November 5th, at the very least, 25 US military personnel are going to be killed in Iraq, along with over a thousand Iraqis. When Saddam is sentenced to death, it will only increase the American appetite for leaving, because what else can we possibly achieve with 150,000 troops hunkered down in the world’s largest operational bunker?
Thanks, Scarecrow, and Peterr. I’m not going gentle into that good night (maybe you can tell.)
rufo_firenza @ 42
Here’s one…
http://www.actblue.com/page/ta…..andshoveit
If anyone wants to see why the “conservative movement” is so underrepresented in Hollywood it is because they lack talent.
Watch “Saddam Hussein: WMD” and you will be stunned at how pathetic the movie is.
They manage to make the story of Saddams’ reign of brutality trite, boring and unwatchable….
At least the movie ends with a 15 minute 9/11 flashback to get the faithfuls pea-brains back in “kill ‘em all” mode.
-GSD
GSD @ 60
_____
Will Chimpy hold a Presser, or give a preening Oval Office statement? Or would that be seen as too obvious an attempt to influence the election?
_
Saddam Hussein:
“Guilty!”
Surprising verdict. Hope it was worth it.
Saddam’s trial ends the 5th and George’s will start the 8th.
Cozumel @
65
Thanks! You’re a peach!!
new thread….
Professor Foland @ 59
The communications is primarily to ground stations in Oklahoma, somewhere on the east coast and California. I will try to copy the link in here (It’s an email Yahoo group)
mailto:VLF_Group@yahoogroups.com
And here is part of the copy:
Will we get a public viewing of Soddom’s (as Bush Sr. would pronounce it) hanging? If so I do hope it’s during lunchtime with a CNN helicopter flying over the suspected hangmans automobile because I love a hanging with a burger, fries and a gallon of soda. Praise Jesus and George for saving the Iraqi’s.
Tin foil on Iran, wouldn’t the best time to lauch an attack against Iran be the day after elections are stolen? No claims of politics and plenty of distraction from another election theft. Dissenters will instantly be traitors again, nothing to see here move along.
otoh – What if Saddam is found not guilty? lol
Reading a little more at the Boeing site, the TACAMO system looks like it is for one-way messages to ballistic missile submarines. There are E-6’s continuously on station flying circles, one over the Pacific and the other over the Atlantic. This is actually what you’d expect; seawater’s conductivity forces communications to be at low frequencies.
Why would one use a low frequency for ground-to-air communications?
New thread, gang — thought there would be some interest in the CT Senate debate today. So I’ve found the link for live coverage for everyone. :)
Thanks for the reminder. I headed straight over to egregious’ place to donate. Now, if I can ask a big favor…does anyone know of an ActBlue link for Patty Wetterling?
Much appreciated in advance!
Here’s one…
http://www.actblue.com/page/ta…..andshoveit
——`
Here is another one:
cmanaster.dailykos.com/
He is matching all contributions!
Kathie
(Sorry for the screwed up message here – I couldn’t get it fixed right! )-: )
Professor Foland @ 71
Harder to jam and a bit more resistant to interference from EMP. At least that’s what I could gather from casual information when they were testing ELF antennas at the base I was at in the `60s.
In the instance of Iran, however, it’s likely to keep submerged subs apprised of what’s happening above the surface, or to coordinate sub-based cruise missile attacks with other forces. I really don’t want to think about the other possibility–that they need the communication capability because they’re going to set off a few nuclear weapons in a short space of time.
the bushies may think that it will give them a last gasp of “good” news from iraq before the election, but there is also the possibility they are putting it off as long as possible in case there is a backlash among sadaam loyalists and a spike in violence after the announcement.
truth is, as far as most americans are concerned (and most of the world) sadaam long ago lost his ability to inspire much fear. once those pics of him in his underware were published, he turned into a joke. his “trial” has been a sideshow and i don’t think anyone really cares much about him one way or the other.
Remember, Remember, the Fifth of November
the gunpowder, treason and plot.
I know of no reason, why the gunpowder treason,
should ever be forgot!
So I guess I’m the only one who noticed that there can’t be much doubt about what verdict they’re going to reach when they’ve already come right out and said that Saddam will be sentenced the same day the verdict is announced?
Nothing like a fair trial before an unbiased judiciary, huh?
montag @
76
I read that there were anti-submarine excercises planned in the Pacific near Hawaii. The HMCS frigate Ottawa (Canadian Forces) was sent to participate and then to sail on the the Persian Gulf. Perhaps this is related to the excersises.