
Not God but a swastika
So black no sky could squeak through.
Every woman adores a Fascist,
The boot in the face, the brute
Brute heart of a brute like you.(Sylvia Plath, "Daddy")
To say that Andrew Sullivan has issues would be like saying that the Chernobyl Nuclear Plant had a couple of safety problems. Rarely do we get to see a person so clearly being driven around by Forces They Do Not Understand, someone so feverishly playing out their deeply rooted psycho-sexual deformities on so grand a scale, and yet so blissfully unencumbered by self-knowledge that they practically parody themselves with eerie pitch-perfection.
Sully is a satiritst's Perfect Storm. It almost (I said "almost"!) makes me feel bad about going after him, but he's been so omnipresent lately, bawling like a wounded calf on NPR's "All Things Considered", then shlepping over to the TV talk shows and back again that I feel compelled to make some sound of protest, if only for my own sanity.
Andrew, Andrew, Andrew…an English, gay, Catholic, "conservative Republican" in America. How many of you out there get the sense that Andrew has spent his whole life pining for men who absolutely positively will not love him back? I mean, how many patriarchies can you stalk at once? The Catholics? The Republicans? Andy, I hate to have to tell you this, but they're just not that into you. You are their useful idiot, sure. You're part of their propaganda wing, but you will always be a pawn, a water-carrier, a low-level courtier in the Reich Wing's palace intrigues. They still think you're disgusting, but if you're willing to do their work for them, they're not going to try and stop you.
But then again, you like the taste of boot, don't you? This is precisely your problem, and it's the same problem Ann Coulter has. It's a weird combination of transference and projection. You are an altar boy in the Holy Cathedral of the Authoritarian Cult because you're frantically chasing your absent father. I hate to be so Freudian about it, but it was perfectly clear to me back in 2004 during the vice-presidential debates when you revealed that Dick Cheney makes you go all funny-in-the-pants:
Well, I could easily be wrong, but I have a feeling Cheney will crush Edwards tonight. The format is God's gift to Daddy. They'll both be seated at a table, immediately allowing Cheney to do his assured, paternal, man-of-the-world schtick that makes me roll on my back and ask to have my tummy scratched. (Yes, I do think that Cheney is way sexier than Edwards. Not that you asked or anything.)
Jesus wept.
But that's the thing, you and Annie C and Lucianne Goldberg and Drudge and all the other jackboot-fetishists hate anything that seems feminine, or yielding, or well, anything like your mothers. And you've projected that on to liberals and Democrats. You think we're the mommy party and god knows, you HATE YOUR MOTHER! It's alllllllll about Daddy.
And that's some fucked-up shit. Case in point, look how your crowd went after Cindy Sheehan, or Hillary Clinton, or particularly the vehemence of Coulter's attacks on the 9/11 widows. Those women remind you of Mommy and you hate, hate, haaaaaaaaaate her, don't you?
Sully's new cant is what's probably to be expected in the months ahead. As the Bush administration goes necrotic there will be a tremendous effort to amputate it from the rest of the Republican party before the gangrene can spread. We're already seeing this species of apologism in the recent remarks of former President Clinton:
DES MOINES, Iowa (Reuters) – Former President Bill Clinton told Iowa’s Democratic Party faithful on Saturday that the actions of “an extreme sliver” of the Republican Party have backfired and “profoundly divided” the country.
(snip)
“You cannot blame the entire Republican party for this reason. The entire government of the United States, the Congress, the White House and increasingly the courts for the last six years has been in the total control not of the Republican party but of the most ideological, the most right wing, the most extreme sliver of the Republican Party.”
With all due respect, Mr. President, that's a bunch of hooey. And I think both you and Andrew Sullivan know it. With Republicans contolling everything since you left office, we've had a chance to experience all the wonderful colors of the Republican rainbow from the credit card industry to the Dobson true-believers to the oily Ralph Reed faux-believers to the Charles Krauthammer hysterics to card sharps like Jack Abramoff to bullying corruptocrats like Tom DeLay. I do believe that we've hit every stop on the way down to where we are now. The Republicans have been like little fat kids in a giant candy-store for years now, and the results speak for themselves.
It particulary irritates me to hear Sullivan trying to distance himself from the Iraq War and the disastrous consequences of the Bush administration's decision to invade that country. He was the freaking captain of the cheerleading squad that led us into the war. He was the first to question the patriotism of dissenters, to demonize pacifists, and to bash the (in hindsight) very reasonable and sensible people (LIKE ME!) who in 2003 were saying, "Maybe invading a deeply tribal muslim nation with a history of thousands of years of conflict isn't such a good idea."
But where's Sully now?
"All of this [bad news from Iraq] forces us to making the toughest decision yet. The status quo is unacceptable. We must either ratchet up our effort or cut our losses. If I had confidence in the leadership, I'd back the former. Under Rumsfeld, I have zero confidence in any effort to stabilize Iraq. But we know this president is simply immune to pressure unless forced. So vote Democrat. Give them partial responsibility for the war effort – before a presidential election. And force Bush finally to take some responsibility for the chaos he has helped create."
I'm sorry, Sully. You don't get a pass. You weren't just enabling the drunk violent father to terrorize the neighborhood, you were fixing his drinks. You need to "take some responsibility for the chaos" YOU helped create.
But that's our Andrew, ever the wind-sock. Whichever side is on top, right?



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Fitz!
TRex!
Godot!
Trex!
TRex!
Is he really an Enlgish gay?
Valley Girl @ 4
Yep. Just like Madonna.
TRex and Late Nite!
“And that’s some fucked-up shit. Case in point, look how your crowd went after Cindy Sheehan, or Hillary Clinton, or particularly the vehemence of Coulter’s attacks on the 9/11 widows. They remind you of Mommy and you hate, hate, haaaaaaaaaate her, don’t you?”
hmmm… given the discussion on the previous thread, the bit about Hillary Clinton did make me reel back a bit… did he get one teeny thing right, whatever the underlying Freudian motive?
TRex @ 4
Oh, TRex, I love your quick wit.
Oh yuck, he has the hots for CHENEY?
TRex, let me introduce you to the comic stylings of Jim Holloway.
What is going to happen to the republican party when the religious right realize that the corporate side of the party is run by fascists? As Bill Maher might ask, “What is it about Christianity that allows itself to be coopted by fascism?”
“With all due respect… that’s a bunch of hooey.”
Bingo!
For years, I’ve been yearning for a Baloney Squad. I would love to hear a chorus of “That’s baloney!” in response to every political lie that gets told.
Yes, I’m old-fashioned. :-) But can you imagine our current President’s reaction if he had to listen to “Baloney” after every single thing he said?
I used to read his blog quite frequently, as a way to see what ‘conservatives’ thought.
I don’t think this particular characterization (or the picture of him in the CPAP) is particularly fair. He is a water carrier, but in the runup to the 2004 election he was very outspoken in saying that he made a mistake in supporting Bush and definitely wanted people to vote Democratic. He pointed out first (as I could tell) to point out that Bush called elections ‘accountability moments’ and that nothing short of losing would stop him.
As for the CPAP, I mean, come on. The man had severe sleep apnea solved by that device. It’s almost like posting a picture of someone in a wheelchair as a derogatory thing.
I disagree with his politics, don’t get me wrong. But this particular attack isn’t as sharp as I’d expect.
Hi Trex,
I’m sorry I called you a dangerous fucking bastard last week, especially when it was Pach who wrote the Late Nite. I meant to say, “My Darling Theropod.” Very nice choice of the Sylvia Plath, by the way.
Now, I have to ask, even though it’ll show how uncool I am. Why is the man on the CNN screen wearing what looks like an oxygen mask?
Margot @ 9
Though Karl would do in a “pinch”. *g*
I have to say, that since I have been reading Andrew in February, he has consistently been against this administration. He will tell you that Conservatism has been kidnapped by the “Cult of Bush”! He will also tell you that the Religous Right has been hijacked and used by the “Cult of Bush”.
Read this man! I am not a homosexual, can’t stand Repugs, I am not crazy about religion in general( I’m Jewish) and I LOVE this guy. Great insight, and it was after reading him awhile that I finally realized that he was a disallusioned gay conservative.
http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/
Mad Dogs @ 15
Watch it. I’ve learned how to projectile hurl across cyberspace.
Err, doesn’t that mean that he is susceptible to pressure? Sort of like, he was invincible until he was beaten. He was handsome until he looked in a mirror. He was wise until he opened his mouth. No, I don’t know what these things mean either.
My CPAP is so much more stylish than Sully’s.
When Sullivan says, “So vote Democrat. Give them partial responsibility for the war effort – before a presidential election. And force Bush finally to take some responsibility for the chaos he has helped create,” to me that translates into “Republicans are at their strongest when they have someone else to blame.”
left in a right world @ 16
To paraphrase Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet:
You can love him all you want, but by that smell he will always be known.
“You cannot blame the entire Republican party for this reason. The entire government of the United States, the Congress, the White House and increasingly the courts for the last six years has been in the total control not of the Republican party but of the most ideological, the most right wing, the most extreme sliver of the Republican Party.”
Really? So all 55 Republican senators and 200-something congressmen are all in the most extreme sliver of the Republican party? ‘Cuz they’ve all been totally on board with pretty much everything Bush has wanted to do. If they wanted to stop the extremist crazies, they could have. But they didn’t. So they’re responsible. Fuck ‘em. Fuck ‘em all to hell.
Oh, the humanity!
One more gasbag down.
Conservatism cannot fail, people fail conservatism. But conservatives can do no wrong except trail in the polls. Then they instantly become bad conservatives.
wow….
wait ’til Andrew finds out he can do his CPAP throgh a ball gag…
[and who knew pulmonologists were so inventive?]
Oilfieldguy @ 24
Here’s an interesting Future Irony. Right now (or at least very recently), as Glenn Greenwald has pointed out, conservatism is measured solely in terms of loyalty to Bush. By the end of his term, its definition could very well be the exact opposite.
This all sounds like the Francis Fukuyama/William F. Buckley Effect. Embrace a foolish and dangerous policy and then when it doesn’t work walk away from it and act like it was hijacked by a splinter group. Conservatism never fails. There are just some who fail conservatism. They, of course, are not true conservatives. So it really wasn’t your fault or the fault of your ideas, etc.
Eli @ 26
Fickle, aren’t they.
Oilfieldguy @
24
Yeah, the much vaunted “Republican loyalty” is really coming out in the wash now, isn’t it?
Yer right Hugh,
They’re gettin’ out front like it’s a parade or something.
Oilfieldguy @ 24
Better said than me.
I had a couple of dates with Andrew back in his transitional bisexual days (at that time he reported being 70% toward men, and 30% toward women – boy those odds were less favorable than getting into grad school) – and have followed his career with fascination and bemusement. The conversations were palavers – the man is smart. But like Christopher Hitchens, he is addled. Addled by his narcissim and cleverness. I can’t tell what the hell he stands for other than staying in the DC scene.
amoeba formerly known as kirk @ 24
kirk- you must have missed my earlier comment- please go back to your real name- things are complicated enough already- and, what about that cat brush?
Or, maybe someone is impersonating you… in which case, the cat brush ref. will be brushed off. So, are you the real thing?
Just read this about “Liberty Sunday” on Talk2Action, (Quick aside, if they call it “Liberty Sunday”, you can be damn sure their aim is to deny *somebody* their liberty. We can decode opposite-speak in our sleep by now)
Those of us who were expecting Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney to appear by video at the FRC Liberty Sunday event this evening were surpised to see him stride onstage live accompanied by his wife Ann.
Bishop Wellington Boone once again stated that the “Sodomites” were engaged in the “rape of the civil rights movement.”
Dr. Roberto Miranda spoke of the “powerful aggressive instinct,” of homosexual organizers, and described the struggle for gay rights, saying: “like a rogue foreign cell inside an organism, it will continue to replicate itself.”
Click here for more.
Bishop Wellington Boone once again stated that the “Sodomites” were engaged in the “rape of the civil rights movement.”
God forbid we should take the concept of equality Too Far.
To have a mission was my ambition
I had to regain my self-respect
So I got into camouflage
The girls they love to see you shoot
(I love a man in a uniform)…
(Gang of Four)
To which TRex responds: “With all due respect, Mr. President, that’s a bunch of hooey.”
There speaketh truth!
As I recall, there ain’t no draft to join the Repug party. Tis an all-volunteer cesspool.
To paraphrase Dummmy, “They are the party they have, not the party they wish they had”.
Membership has its privileges. Consequences is one of them!
Found this over at Digby. It’s hard for Dubya to get warrants to spy on his political enemies, like students and Quakers. So he just bypasses the warrants thing.
Hugh @ 27
Oddly enough, that reminds of the Marxist/Communist excuse for their failed authoritarian states. The dogma/theory is never wrong – the execution is just off.
[Hmm - is anyone thinking of lassiez-faire economic policies? They accidentally help the super-rich and fuck every other living thing over. But never, never by design. Always because the lassiez-faire poilicies were poorly implemented.
uh, sure]
An additional thought on the Sullivan “So vote Democrat. Give them partial responsibility for the war effort – before a presidential election”quote. If the R’s were to not lose a chamber of Congress this Nov, then going into ‘08 they will have the Iraq disaster and runaway spending around their necks, but add to that the deep economic ripple effects of the housing market slump. If you think people are sick of republicans now, I believe it will be far worse going into ‘08 if they remain in total control after Nov.
But for the sake of all things living, we need subpoena power NOW
Oh, and VG, I sorta dolled my place up a little. I know you’ve never liked the name of it, but a picture is worth a thousand words.
I keep wondering if TRex was there in the Colorado Rockies when they blew HST’s ashes out of that black powder cannon last summer. Was he disguised as a papier mache Tyro mockup stolen from some cheap Jurassic mini-golf theme park, parked 50 yards down barrel hoping to get a sprinkling of Gonzo dust?
Whether or not, this is some of the best humorous writing to come out of this campaign. Plus, TRex has an advantage compared to HST’s best political volume, _ Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail ‘72_. Thompson was writing about and bemoaning a losing campaign, which he loved, ’cause it gave him reason to compare his dysfunctionality to that of the Dems. But TRex is helping us create a winning game, so there isn’t a comparison to the terrain here to ‘72.
But, Thompson warns. “Am I turning into a politics junkie? It is not a happy thought – particularly when I see what it’s done to all the others.” Pp. 412-413. Too late, dinodog? Or, for that matter, ET? GFG!
Another quote from the book, prescient but simple, from Frank Mankiewicz (p. 405). “The worst thing to look like right now is a politician. This is a bad year for them.”
Ah, those vintage years for bad politicians. 2006 may be regarded as one of the finest.
Eli @
26
This comment is the exact point to be made regarding today’s politics.
Glenn is the best writer for translating King George legaleze into everyday English, and the translations aint pretty. Bush is so full of it in regard to the Constitution, and yet his Conservative backers turn a blind eye to the principles of Conservatism from the Goldwater era.
There is a “Cult of Bush”, and it has subverted conservatism. This is not a Conservative administration; it is a Monarchial administration with Bush crowning himself King while protecting America from a war that he has usurped from a specific aim of getting the people who attacked us to the getting DADDY”S enemy.
Read Glenn Greenwald to get an honest, referenced, legal look at how Bush has hijacked America and our Constitution.
http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/
I think it was William Sloane Coffin who wrote that the tale of “The Good Samaritan” might be better understood in terms of its radicalism in first century Judaism, if we thought of it as the parable of “The Good Homosexual”. In this day and age, most Christians have lost any real sense of the visceral reaction Jesus’ listeners would have had to those words.
Something of Sullivans I culled from Larry King Live the other night that pretty well nails down our discussion here:
Oilfieldguy @ 40
Love the pic, OFG. And, I *finally* figured out that kitten-stomper had something to do with your driving a CAT- I think that’s right, anyway. Being a lover of actual felines, I just didn’t get the joke. Please confirm!
The first time I saw this guy on TV was in a roundtable discussion before the ‘04 elections. He was talking about how windsurfing made Kerry an elitist, all that expensive equipment etc. compared with Bush’s bicycle. It was ridiculous. I’ve been on his website a few times since, and I tried to take him seriously, but it’s hard to shake that 1st impression. As far as the above comment about the religious right being hijacked by the “cult of Bush”, if he believes that, he’s preposterously naive, again.
Here’s why Sully’s ain’t really a blog: no comments permitted.
Also, he “blogs” for TIME now, and so does Ana Marie Cocks. nuf said.
left in a right world,
Yeah, I’m a GG fan, bought his blook and devoured it toot sweet. I take a political track on this issue. I say it is conservatism that has failed, they wrote a lot of legislation to aid corporations and captains of industry. It is the basic philosophy of the right that the strength of America exists with this small group they support. The values issues are merely a vehicle to acheive the political power to enact their will.
Progressives belive the strength of America exists in the middle class. I will not let the right wing simply toss carcasses from their moving train. The train must be stopped.
Ouch. It’s posts like these that make me visit FDL less often, now that I’ve discovered it. What is there in this post other than put-you-in-a-group and paint a whole bunch of you with one wide brush?
“Case in point, look how your crowd went after…” And expressing dismay/disbelief that someone who, at one time supported the war has had a change of mind, and, well, no, really, if you stood over in that corner, you resemble all the others who stood in that corner, no exceptions, why do you say anything different now? You’re part of the Group, goddamn you! Stop acting like an individual! Don’t you know we don’t allow you to be an individual? You’re with the enemy. Stay there. Even when you say that it’s important this election season, to take down the party in power. Even tho we want the same thing, you’re still the enemy with mommy and daddy issues. There’s not a whole lot that separates this post from, say, calling an enemy a gook or a towel-head or a Hajji– other than employing many more words to do so.
I don’t care for the all supposition and innuendo, with no supporting facts beyond accusations of mommy and daddy issues. No, it just doesn’t cut it for me. Especially when the end result is so extremely derogatory.
I discovered FDL with links to news of Ned and Joe, and have been sticking around. But –despite the opportunity to “meet” a challenger to a congressional seat one district over from mine — it’s become less of a site to return to with (nearly compulsive) regularity. Posts such as this are the reason why.
(I’m not trying to go all GBCW on you; I figure that most everyone here could give a flying you-know-what whether I stick around or not; whether this post is offensive or not [Hey, mmr, glad to see that it struck you the wrong way, too]; I rarely comment, and have met one FDL commenter ftom CA-26 in person. But I’ve heard others talk about the big open welcome, and so I’ll take you at your word and say my little piece. Consider it a bit of website focus group-style feedback. A pointed example of how to piss off your readers: We need to take the country back. But you can’t be an individual with a different path to the same conclusion tha we have.)
TRex @
5
….and here I was thinking that Madonna was now an English Jew. Hey. Who knew????
From the Pres. Clinton quote:
What’s striking about this quote is how many of the votes we’ve followed this year, the really important ones on Alito, torture and habeas corpus, the re-enactment of the “Patriot” Act, all these thing have been basically straight party-line votes. How can it be just a sliver of the Republican Party that’s at fault, unless it’s the sliver that happens to hold federal offices?
Update: I notice Eli said something similar earlier. Oh well, it’s hard to be original here.
OFG
That picture just cracks me up. Love the way you dolled up the joint.
well, that was informative
William Clinton, stop talking to America as though it is comprised solely of febrile dimwits with severely diminished historical recollection, this instant!
;>)
TeddySanFran @
48
One-way blogs are like standing in front of a mirror and saying over and over to yourself “I’m very, very cool. Don’t you agree? I thought so.”
Ed*ard Teller @ 56
I’m turning off my comments right now.
Susan Kitchens- I’ve been at FDL a long while. And, even tho the Lamont/ Lieberman posts were not my first experience at FDL, the Lamont posts def. got me going to campaign for Lamont. Late Nite is always the most “out there” sort of commentary. TRex is an astute observer of all things, tho sometimes his posts piss people off. Don’t let that keep you away from FDL, please!
ET @ 42,
Nothing wrong with being a political junkie. At least you don’t ever, ever have to worry about the players going on strike….
Suzanne- did you say something about a birthday?? Or have I lost track? If so/not, all the best.
Margot @ 59
On the other hand, I never actually *want* baseball or football players to go on strike…
Susan Kitchens @ 50: TRex is Trex. It’s late night. Lighten up. Take a deep breath, a drink of something you like, and take it as the tongue-in-cheek it’s meant to be. We don’t want you to stop reading.
karen allen- I am a great supporter of Vic Wulsin- any reports from the front on that account?
Susan Kitchens @ 50
Differing opinions aren’t objectionable here.
Forgiveness is something that we all should practice. I will be quite happy to forgive all of those formerly-supportive Repug souls.
They will of course, have to get in the back of the line. In back of folks like Timothy McVeigh, Ted Bundy, Idi Amin, Hitler, Stalin, etc.
Don’t worry! I won’t forget them. But I sure hope they’re good at holding their breath.
Susan Kitchens #50,
Trex writes with a certain style and if you have been coming here for a while as you say, I am surprised that you haven’t noticed it. As for those who convert late to the idea that there might be something a little wrong in Bushland, yes, I have a question about why it took so long and in particular, I have a problem when there is no assumption of responsibility for previous positions and no explanation for either why those positions were held so long or why they were changed.
The quintessential Concern Troll statement is, “I’m reading you less because of blah, blah, blah…”
If we had jumped the shark as many times as the Concern Trolls seem to think we have, we’d be able to start our own version of Sea World.
Valley Girl: Absolutely! Rep. John Murtha of Pennsylbania came to town yesterday to campaign for Wulsin. What a wonderful experience it was! He arrived with no cadre of police officer escorts, just one wonderful Marine/Congressman with a couple of aides. When he was introduced to me, he shook my hand and then enveloped me in a bear hug. A bear of a man. When he spoke, he electrified the audience. One instinctively knows you can trust this good solid person.
Last poll shows Wulsin leading Mean Jean by 3 points. If she keeps up this momentum, I think we will see a new Democratic US Representative from District 1 in Ohio.
VG, yes, still 2 hours 3 minutes left of my 52nd birthday, not that I am counting or anything.
Been five years as of today, and we still don’t know who mailed the Anthrax.
Swordswoman @
12
Would that this clever idea get legs -
Susan Kitchens @
50
Yeah please stick around and insult our posters. We love that. We value the input of those who proved their fabulous judgment by supporting the war in the first place and are now all touchy when someone is just a wee bit critical of that.
We want to contour our site especially for you and are absolutely devastated at the thought that you May Not Come Here As Frequently As You Did Before Because Of Posts Just Like This TM. Thank you for taking time out of your valuable schedule just to set us straight.
I have no idea who it was on NPR this morning—I was racing through the kitchen—but someone was pontificating that with likely voter’s swinging away from the GOP, that’ll be really difficult for them and for the country, see, ’cause the Democrats have no original ideas of their own. They just are against Bush and the War. Stupid host just let this windbag, whoever it was, prattle on with no reaction or response.
One more reason for hitting the off switch on NPR. Bah!
marksb @ 73
Even if that were true, Aimless Drift would still be an improvement over Pedal-To-The Metal Heading Over The Cliff.
I think I need a tissue.
I heard Tucker Carlson (yeah, I think so, too.) speak this past week. He said he believes the Repugs are going to lose big on November 7. The audience broke out in clapping and cheers. He was crestfallen, saying that he wanted to say how sad he felt at this prediction of his. The crowd was a mix of people, but it was obvious almost everybody was tired of BushCo. Carlson said he is against any form of abortion, even in cases of rape. He said he really likes Dick Cheney. He asked the audience not to call Bush “evil” and the audience laughed in derision.
Tucker, Tucker. Ya ain’t as smart as ya think ya are.
Valley Girl @
33
Hi VG -
I’m as substantial as one can be here in the fog…wraiths cloaked against the chill.
Two of my kitties are really spooky about new grooming stuff, and they seem to be happiest when they have time to get to know the new thingy that will part their fur.
My intial solution – simply use new brushes on the catalition of the willing – keeps falling under a shadow.
My kitty Cloud returned from her de-maiden voyage with extreme intolerance for new groomy thingies. She’s also really cuddly – and just waltzes into the happy feline wiggle queue for brushing, then hisses and growls at new thingy. Over and over.
Cloud happily acclimates to new boxes/beds/brushes/thingies if they are left out in a corner where she will check them out for a few weeks. As long as nothing tries to do surgery on her, she’ll settle down and accept it.
So brush alpha went to live in the out of the way corner near the front window where the afternoon sun could come in.
Could….and in the late summer and early fall actually does.
And – lo – on the morning after the third night, I rolled back the chair behind which brush alpha had resided to find…
nothing.
Not under the chair, in the bookshelf, under the bookshelf, on the chair.
Nowhere. Not in the whole house.
brushaptotheosis
I’m still waiting for brush alpha to return, as a messenger of eternal life for lost objects.
Or maybe the pixies have been about….
But with these sort of fundamental questions in my life, I need a solid foundation.
Last night when we were sharing travellers’ tales of the Road to Domesticity, a blinding flash illustrated the perdition awaiting my path of singledom.
For a single searing moment I could see my solitary mammalian existence continuing until my return to mulch…
and then the vision collapsed to a single point.
This could only mean one thing:
unicellular life.
My one-celled existence transcends needs for partners. In unity with my brave, enlighted human sisters I have attained control of my own reproductive destiny.
The choice of whether or when to bring little ones into the world now rests fully in my own hands.
Or pseudopods, as the case may be.
As an amoeba I won’t have to anticipate leaving yet another unpromising coffee date, flagellating myself…..
Please don’t protist my transformation.
Instead, I hope you will engulf it.
Eukaryotically yours..
Personally, I love reading TR. I’ll stay up late just to catch the latest dino wonderfulness as he sinks his raser-sharp teeth into another fat, juicy politically idiotic tidbit. It’s often snark, sure, but damn it’s smokin’ snark. (Hmm…Mr. Rex, sir, how do you smoke snark? Papers or pipe?)
Oilfieldguy @ 74
Here, borrow my hankie. Sorry that it’s a wee bit wet. {{{honk, honk}}}
marksb @ 77
In rocks.
Suzanne @ 69
Suzanne-!!! Happy Birthday!!!! My mom turns 90 tomorrow!!! And, she still drives (a 1967 VW bug, if you can believe that) and she still hates Bush!
karen allen @ 75
Don’t ya’ just love the wistfulness that comes over these poor ol’ boys?
It almost breaks my heart to see ‘em cry.
Thanks, VG. Wish your mom Happy Birthday from another VW bug (well, new beetle) driving Libra.
Amoemba/kirk, maybe it was Heinzelmannchen. They come around and pick stuff up while we sleep. Being German, they usually put the stuff where it belongs, where of course we never look, and therefore assume a state of lostness, when actually, through the magic of practical German fairy-like creatures, it’s just been put away.
Re: Sullivan’s facial gear above. He has a breathing disorder at night and wears this get-up to help him sleep better. He went through a period on his blog and in his public appearances raising awareness about the disorder and the tests people could take to see if they, too, suffered the same problem without realizing it.
Which is well and good, and a genuine public service. Good for him.
If only all his soul-searching for ‘true conservatism’ in the age of Bush could do some, or any, good. Alas. It just means his kvetching and magical thinking (”I’m willing to give Iraq another chance if we get rid of Rumsfeld and conjure up another 20,000 trained American troops out of thin air. Heck, let’s make it 40,000. 60,000. And we’ll give them ponies to ride.”) and anyone who follows the public debate has to run into his self-delusions at some point because people insist on giving him platforms.
Finally, I realize he makes his living from his words and he’s one half-step above the wingnut welfare system since the other wingnuts can’t stand him (but he gets to look almost moderate and sane by comparison), but something like every third post on his blog is to plug how insightful and needed his book is. Meanwhile, excellent bloggers like Steve Gilliard and Glenn Greenwald have to beat the drum and/or shuffle their feet and remind us that bloggers need remuneration for their contributions to the public discourse.
Suzanne @ 83
I thought you were called Progressras now.
Densely, ET asks “So what does ‘I’m not trying to go all GBCW on you’ mean?”
It almost breaks my heart to see ‘em cry.
Key word here being “almost”.
Tucker is becoming an incresingly tragic figure on the political landscape, isn’t he?
Pity.
One factor in Sullivan’s seeing the error of his ways has to do with his CPAP therapy. The sleep apnea he suffered with for so long deprives the body of oxygen and the restful sleep. The brain and body are fatigued. No wonder he wasn’t thinking straght! Now the CPAP gives him good sleep and thinking.
But Dr. TRex is right.
Sullivan is clueless. All Sully has to do is take TRex’s right-on diagnosis to a reputable shrink and let loose.
Ed*ard Teller @ 87
George Bush Conventional Wisdom?
I loathe Sullivan too, but making fun of a guy wearing a CPAP strikes close to home for me. My brother and I both need to sleep with ‘em – and I expect that apnea had a significant role in my dad’s early death from heart disease.
Sorry to be a wet blanket. I love making fun of the wingnuts and their apologists too. I like clever pictures that take the wind out of them. Hell, I’ve created dozens of ‘em myself: check out my website.
I just don’t see mocking someone’s medical condition as being particularly good satire.
God help anyone who avoids getting the medical treatment they need because they don’t want to look as ridiculous as you obviously think Sullivan does… because apnea can kill.
Ah, wait. It’s either “Goodbye Cruel World”, or “Great Bay Coast Watch”.
marksb @ 83
wow…
with skills like that in the family, do they have any relatives who do time travel?
there are some places in my life where tidying up would have been a good thing….
the only image of Sully I can conjure is that one of him scratching his ass on national TV.
(Best. GBCW. Ever.)
Eli @
89
there is such a thing? Maybe I’d better get back to my home planet soon……
Jane- as you know commenters always try to be nice to newcomers. But, I at least, rely on you to call *bullshit* when you see it. You are much better than I am at that, and one of the reasons I am your continuing admirerer!!!!xxxoo
Ed*ard Teller @ 96
It was just a guess. But then I went to The Infallible Source Of All Knowledge And Wisdom, and it spake unto me of “Goodbye, Cruel World” and “Great Bay Coast Watch”. And “Grace Baptist Church of Waterloo”.
Eli @ 89
Georgie Been Cutting Wind?
It is one thing to need a CPAP device. It is entirely another to be such an attention whore that you will model one on CNN. I am not mocking his medical condition, but rather his seemingly obsessive need to make himself ridiculous in front of the camera.
well, Suzanne, in case I don’t make it to midnight: Bon Anniversaire!
Eli @
94
Uh.
Mah.
Gawd.
That is hilarious.
TRex @ 100
I suppose it would be tactless to call this a CPAP smear.
Joyeux anniversaire de ma part aussi.
punaise @ 102
Oh, punaise.
I love you so.
darkblack @ 105
…
And in unrelated matters:
Malacandra @ 121
See what I mean?
;>)
TRex @ 102
from said link:
DKos as Roach Motel California: you can check in, but…
kirk- (if I may call you that for now)- cats *are* very mysterious in their ways. I was hoping, sooner or later, to hear the story of brush #1. And now I have. Don’t give up hope in finding another eukaryote to mate with, and produce other little eukaryotes. Just try to expand your scope… easy to say, I know… And, trust me, cat brush #2 will be nothing like cat brush #1, if you will give it a chance. Who knows, maybe that simple act of faith will resonate into the other dimensions! Stranger things have happened!!! xxoo
I think the Eagles sang about a place like that but don’t think it was called GBCW.
(/snark)
I think I heard Sean Hannity say on my AM Radio last week while I was avoiding huge puddles, and geese, moose and bears escaping from the 22 inches of rain “It’s the Gay, Bisexual Cut-’n-Run Wiccans who are Al qaeda’s closest…….” Maybe it was O’Reilly.
TRex @ 105
LOL – got your back, TRex ( in a strictly Jesus’ General sort of way, of course)
VG — I always appreciate you making people welcome. Don’t like it when folks crawl out of the woodwork simply to trash TRex (or any of the posters, or commenters for that matter) & feel I need to draw a bit of a line sometimes. They’re free to say it, I’m just free to answer back.
TRex,
Susan Kitchens is not a Concern Troll. She’s a respected technology writer and blogger. She’s been blogging since 1999, and is quite well-known. She knows the weblog medium; hell, she helped define it. She’s also someone who didn’t like your post, and offered her well-reasoned constructive feedback. Rather than taking a dismissive shot at her, you should accept that your laudable wit and sharp pen sometimes misses the mark. And then do better in the future.
On a personal note, it wasn’t your post that offended me (though it’s far from one of your best); it was the picture of Sullivan you chose to use. He had the guts to go on CNN and look silly wearing his CPAP mask so that he could possibly help other people suffering from sleep apnea, a dangerous, debilitating, and vastly under-diagnosed disorder. Having it myself, I salute him for that.
But you chose to mock his disability. That’s just petty and bitchy and, frankly, ugly. Would you applaud a rightwing blogger who made fun of Max Cleland or Tammy Duckworth because they have no legs? Or a cancer patient because their chemo caused them to lose their hair? Of course not; you would condemn such behavior. By choosing this picture, you’ve crossed the line from legitimate snark. And FDL is the worse for it.
Thinking about #50 and the wikipedia GBCW definition.
Maybe TRex could devise a faux fdl GBCW contest. Or a real one. One entry per doggie, 100 words max. Snark weighted rules.
TRex @ 87
Hey OFG, I hate do this, but can I have my hankie back? {{{boo hoo}}}
/giggle off
Yes yes! All disabled people should stay indoors where they can’t be seen, and no one should ever talk about them. If you have any kind of disability or medical condition, hide it. Don’t talk about it. Don’t let it be seen in public.
And certainly don’t try to de-stigmatize it in the hopes of saving lives, because only an “attention whore” would do that.
Tom Negrino @ 112
Says who? I think it was genius.
No, actually, it’s not. You’re being hypersensitive and quite petty and the notion that someone is “so very important” that TRex must accept their criticism as gospel is elitist bullshit.
The post made me laugh ’til I cried and his characterization of Sullivan is right on the mark.
Yawn. Andrew Sullivan is SO 1990s.
In the words of !El Gato Negro!:
Deed someone let a Chihuahua een here?
I could swear I keep hearing thees yap yap yap yap yap sound.
So.
Jane Hamsher @ 112
Jane, I count on you to draw the line, and answer back. You have much more experience and savvy than I do. And, I know from experience as a mod, that it is best to nip the blooms in their bud, if you know what I mean.
Dude, if you knew jack-shit about Andrew Sullivan you wouldn’t have written this ignorant and ill-deserved column whose preening contempt makes you look like a strutting fool throwing spitballs at your better.
I say this, btw, not as a troll, but as a hardcore GOP-hating Democrat who, apparently unlike you, actually reads Sullivan’s column. You talk about him “hating the mommy party” and so on in your glib Freudian sneering, seemingly unaware that Sullivan has been almost universally trashing the GOP and endorsing the Democrats for many months now. There’s hardly anyone in the non-Kossian blogosphere writing more bitterly and intelligently anti-Bush White House work these days. Certainly there’s no one who is more intellectually honest, cogent, articulate and, quite often, moving. And certainly I, at least, could not point to another conservative whose work over the past few years charts out a course for fellow conservatives and GOPers to abandon Bush and the GOP in this and probably future electoral cycles. By which I mean that Sullivan’ *genuinely* conservative political values, his rigorous intellectual honesty and his ability to cogently explicate both in his prose have for many months now been one of the most powerful arrows in *our* quiver; I have no doubt that his blog will have delivered thousands of votes to our side by the close of business on November 7th.
In short: we’re on the same team here, and I generally enjoy your witty pieces, but on this subject you are full of shit, and in a really ugly, personal way. Please give us some Sullivan quotes backing up your deeply insulting column about a quite worthy writer or apologize for it.
Darkblack 105
Man… I didn’t mean it like that! I meant… you know, deflate their egos. Waitasec… that isn’t what I mean’t, either.
Well, all I’m saying is that Sully doesn’t need a CPAP to be full of hot air.
google returns a post titled:
“Re: Taking myself less seriously”
http://static.userland.com/use…..21217.html
FWIW.
throwing spitballs at your better. I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU USED THAT PHRASE!!1!! YOU’RE JUST SAYING THAT BECAUSE I’M GAY, AREN’T YOU? YOU HOMOPHOBE!! I THOUGHT THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A PROGRESSIVE BLOG!! I’M NEVER POSTING HERE AGAIN!! JANE, DELETE MY ACCOUNT AND ALL MY LOG IN PRIVILEGES!! I WANT OUT!! THIS PLACE IS A CULT!! ALL OF YOU SUCK!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!111!!1!!
oh my … did Sully hire a gang of concern trolls just for this post? Trex – did you give him advance warning so he could round up a little cadre?
Siun @ 124
I’m not saying anything. I said I wasn’t posting here anymore.
This is me saying nothing.
I hate u all.
reviser @
120
Andrew, I know you deleted it, but thanks to Pam and Attaturk your words still live in infamy:
But it’s nice to know you’re holding up well and getting out these days. Do come back and visit often.
Now I’m off to check some IPs.
Margot @
9
There are some truly disgusting images lurking around Sullivan’s description of Cheney, aren’t there?
hmmmm … I was suddenly reminded of that charming fellow at TNR who would post rave reviews of his own posts under a pseudonym … happy to see Jane having fun
and Trex – oh please, honey, come back!
and Trex – oh please, honey, come back!
No.
crap. now what do i do with the cake and icecream?
Tom Negrino @ 112
Food Fight!!! I get first dibs on the lime green Jello!
Btw Tom ( and Susan Kitchens if she still is viewing), you’re entirely welcome to your opinion.
I don’t share it, but then not being a Repug, I don’t have to.
I do believe that the further up the Repug enabling and complicit food-chain that one stands, the more responsibility one should/must shoulder.
Andrew doesn’t get away with just a few “Mea Culpas”, nor should he.
Like a bank robber who professes remorse at his trial, I say you do the crime, you do the time!
And if the kitchen is too hot, there’s always the outhouse.
Trex, don’t go! The mods will take care of the concern trolls, and we’ll laugh (sadly) at Sully’s ramblings.
Ick. Just, ick!
Suzanne @ 130
What kind of cake?
Trex … dear … you can’t just turn your back on us like that!
TRex @ 133
smoked him out with the cake, eh?
My goodness, Jane, you are sooooooo good… That’s an incredibly creepy quote that will likely give me bad dreams tonight, but still…
TRex @ 133
What kind you like?
Okay reviser I take it back, you’re a reg. Just try to be a bit more respectful of the poster, okay?
Tom Negrino and Dori, on the other hand, appear to be the same person — unless anyone can explain why they have the same IP address (24.5.72.55).
Sock puppetry. Almost always poorly done.
Siun @ 128
What Siun said.
spew alert on 126….
thewheezer @
32
Since most Republicans are not that bright, it’s understandable that they would elevate the merely clever to star status.
I like chocolate cake.
The Bush regime is the culmination of the Regan revolution. We see the same people (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Abrams, etc.) who were the roots of the revolution, now flowered into their full power, spreading their poison to everything that comes in contact with them.
Clinton got it wrong. The GOP in power is not a sliver of the party, but its heart.
TRex @ 142
honey, its cybercake. any way you want it – that’s the way you get it.
TRex @
142
you’re back!
TRex @ 142
You better not have ordered it online.
LOLOL… Damn I love this place!
:) :D :~D
TRex @
101
yes, thanks for sharing that.
slicing TRex a slice of chocolate – you want ice cream with that dear?
Nate @ 147
Kinda lively in here tonight, huh?
Every once in a while you gotta kick the tires.
Eli @
22
And throw in some pseudo-democrats, like Lieberman and the rest of that crowd that voted for the MCA.
Jane @ 116
Please, let’s get real here. TRex thinks that it’s cool to make fun of someone’s disability just because he disagrees with their politics. That sucks. You’re endorsing and defending his behavior. That sucks too. That’s all just my opinion, of course.
It’s not pettiness to call someone on the carpet who is being a boor. It’s your blog, and your community, Jane. You can do what you want with it. But all of us who have blogs with comments have had to push back when they start to veer out of control. That’s all I’m suggesting.
And please don’t misrepresent what I said about Susan. I don’t think that anyone needs to accept what she says because she’s important (note that I didn’t say that, either). I think that she’s worth listening to because she’s a smart person whom I’ve known for a long time. It’s unfortunate that both you and TRex choose to dismiss her criticism out of hand. She’s not a bad person, and I believe that she was trying to help.
Regarding your comment about sock puppetry with me and Dori: Hi, I’m Tom Negrino. She’s Dori Smith. We’re married, and share the same wireless connection (hooked up to the same cable modem, therrefore the same IP address). I’m sitting here at the kitchen table, and she’s over on the couch. See, not a difficult explanation after all.
Chocolate Espresso Cake
Nate @ 147
hey Nate! my brother on Oahu reports no damage from the quake – just a loss of electrical power for a few hours.
Suzanne @ 149
*nods vigorously*
There is nothing more fun than watching a 30ton Therapod loose in a china shop! Except of course watching the crowd sitting outside across the street, eating popcorn, cheering and razzing the poor unsuspecting passerby who happen to wander in!
Valley Girl @
107
Thanks valley girl -
Your perspective really helps – I think I’ve been going through a phage…
Jane Hamsher @
138
No, they’re not sock puppets. Looking at the blog that Tom’s name links to explains it. They’re a couple.
two scoops for the 60ft green guy.TRex @ 154
reviser @ 120
Oh my, look there, shiny thing! Tis St. Andrew come to save us all from perdition.
He’s such a real conservative! Not like those icky folks who channeled and enabled the likes of Junya, Darth and Dummy.
Yup, just give more of St. Andrew’s words of wisdom and all will be “right” with the world.
Why I bet if I’m a real good St. Andrew believer, he can get me some of those front-row tickets to Rapture!
punaise @ 154
Aloha punaise… I was up in the NorCal forests until nearly sundown so caught everything very late. I almost wish I had been there since I’m usually handy to have around when the fit hits the shan and most people are sitting around going, “What do we do now?”.
But the other side of me is saying… “Damn, I’ve got good timing!”
Anyone want Hokey Pokey ice cream with that cake (the most favored flavor of New Zealand)?
amoeba formerly known as kirk @ 158
Thank god you haven’t lost your sense of humor.
NZ Expat @ 161
Dare I ask?
reviser @
120
i think this is sully herself!
OT, but – whew! Go for it, doggies. This is the opposite of a no-reply blog.
Thanks to all here who have helped put Diane Benson’s web contributions rolling. egregious and Howie have earned trips on ET & Bosso the Clown’s Halibut Charters whenever they show up.
You folks have brought in enough to pay for about four days of Diane Benson radio ads in 90% of the Alaska radio market! fdl doggies can bite!
thanks, again.
Learn about Diane: http://downwithtyranny.blogspo…..g-for.html
her campaign website: http://bensonforcongress.com/
egregious’s actblue favorites: http://www.actblue.com/page/egregious
reviser @ 120
“More intellectually honest”? Again, his Iraq policy suggestions are to: 1.) Fire Rumsfeld and 2.) send more troops. On the first point, even he has to admit the administration has never listened to any critic and has drawn the wagons around the inner circle. Certainly, they’re not going to listen to Andrew Sullivan, so to be intellectually honest about it, he’s urinating into the wind.
On the second point, given that the Army has to recruit ever lower quality applicants to meet quotas, where are these troops going to come from? The Army is currently raiding the Air Force and Navy for more bodies, so anyone who suggests “more troops” without adding “and we need a draft to get them” isn’t being “intellectually honest.”
I know Andrew Sullivan is deeply passionate about conservatism and his intellectual struggle with the contradictions in modern conservatism because he keeps telling us over and over. The schtick is old, and the space on the national stage he keeps getting would be better occupied by a progressive voice who doesn’t have the hand-wringing, self-serving baggage Sullivan brings with him.
Suzanne – I’m not up to the embedding thing….
“Dare I ask” – 164
Wouldn’t you rather imagine?
well gang, I’m in NY so on ET tonight and need some sleep …
have fun all!
But am I Tom’s sock puppet or is he my sock puppet? After all, married couples (especially ones who share a wireless network) can’t count as two people, can they? And perish the thought that they might have different opinions!
And to think that only a year ago that our joint blog was described here (thanks, Christy!) as “hilarious”…
I know Andrew Sullivan is deeply passionate about conservatism and his intellectual struggle with the contradictions in modern conservatism because he keeps telling us over and over. The schtick is old, and the space on the national stage he keeps getting would be better occupied by a progressive voice who doesn’t have the hand-wringing, self-serving baggage Sullivan brings with him.
AMEN!!
Alright, time for bed.
Thanks for the cake.
Jane Hamsher @ 138
I picked up that they were the same person or something similar fairly quickly, looking at Mr. Negrino’s web site.
sleepy PS – ET! The news about the radio spots is awesome!
I’ll be in touch to check on some local media outlets for our Had Enough press release, etc so we can try to add a little extra attention to the plan.
now, to sleep
ET- your article about Benson at DWT was great. Did you see earlier that I offered matching for a $20 contribution to Benson, from folks who had not contributed to her campaign before? Well, two offers came up at the same time- one from Jane and another from thatsinger. And I matched both! It was really fun, kinda like online shopping!
Valley Girl @ 173
but without the tasers
Nate @ 156
Paraphrasing Winston Churchill’s description of John Foster Dulles (a neo-con icon, seldom mentioned these days):
“TRex is a bull who brings his own China shop with him.”
The popcorn will be ready in just a sec, I’m popping as fast as I can.
Did someone mention The General?
you are so quick Punaise! And, with that, I have to get some zzzzzs.
g’nite, TRex!
g’nite VG!
Well, that was interesting, I suppose.
What began as a straight-up reaction to a post has become so many things:
Spreading the gospel of curiousity of GBCW [I learned what GBCW stood for during that glorious best. gbcw. ever]
got flamed bywas personally invited by Jane Hamsher herself to stick around and insult the posters of firedoglake. Invited by Jane herself! Is that as good as having a Winer Number of 1? (which I do)What’s more, I now have (possibly) been labeled a “concern troll.”
Yippee!!! People, let me tell you: I’ve arrived.
I have arrived. And I feel so damn proud. Dayum this is great.
I’m going places, people.
(just like Steve Martin in The Jerk when he saw his name in the fone book and said, “There it is! MY name! I’m going places!”)
Thanks to Valley Girl, karen allen, Mad Dogs, Hugh, and Jane and (I think) TRex for your replies.
Ain’t community grand?
I love the web.
Hi VG -
Thanks for your nice comment last night (I missed the revision for a while…)
and Cloud et al look forward to thanking you for the brush (after proper introductions).
Valley Girl @ 174
I did! And thanks, Siun.
Our chances of winning are astronomical………..
goodness knows why I ever stop by slate.com, only to come across stuff like this:
frayed knot.
G’nite ValleyGirl. Be well! I’ll try and touch base via email soon.
Dori,
I hear that after couples have been together for a while, they start to blog alike.
And the decision to share an IP address is a momentous turning point in any relationship.
So, in the tradition of celebrity papparzzi nomenclature, you two are henceforth “Dorigrino”.
buona notte, VG and Siun
susan @ #181,
Please stick around. You’ve written a lot of good stuff here.
ET – my thanks for both what you are doing and for spreading the word. We would never have known about Benson except through you. Just to have the hope of getting rid of Don Young is something that has been missing for far too long.
Oilfieldguy @
45
Bush, the Fuehrer that failed. Must be a terrible disappointment to heirarchy-loving followers when an unworthy man at the top shows his feet of clay. The heirarchy deserved so much better.
Ed*ard Teller @ 182
Benson hedges no bets
g’nite VG and Trex and Siun!
pup-pleasant dreams to you three…
let’s settle this once and for all: can we get Marshall Witmannnnnn to weigh on this?
Re: CPAP
If you think that picture of Andrew was disrespectful, you should see this one: In the 70/30 days no doubt.
I especially liked the part in the Doolittle-Brown debate that Nate has up on YouTube where Doolittle is trying to refute the charges of supporting sex trafficking and forced abortions by talking about how Congressman Don Young, who had oversight of the Marianas, never heard of such a thing.
Grabbing for anvils, every single one of them.
I must have missed the part of the post where TRex mocked Andrew’s disability. Or is Andrew’s disability that he’s gay?
omg Denny must be toast: poolboi compares him to Jabba the Hutt. Really. On page A01 of the WaPo.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01096.html
TeddySanFran @
196
Sully’s disability us that he’s a hypocrite. Alterman has called him Little Roy (Cohn) for several years now, which is a really dark homage.
ooo, I like that. L’il Roy. That’s perfect.
Teddy:
Interesting, very interesting. Also, did you catch this part:
Ever since an odd combination of scandal and turmoil catapulted Hastert into the speaker’s job in 1999, the beefy former wrestling coach — who’s a bit bearlike himself…
TRex @ 66
Wow, I just decided I don’t like you TRex. I agree with Susan re: the Sullivan piece. And with another commentor who said the photo was unneccessary and disgraceful. I am no “concern troll” whatever the hell that is – I don’t reall have any concern – I don’t give a fuck what you think and I am sure neither does Susan, whoever she is.
Calling someone a “troll” in this context is akin to, akin… well, it’s like calling someone a Republican. And that is hitting below the belt Rex. Susan is genuine, as am I. Of course, I am never going to stop reading FDL until they block my net access and jail Ms. Hamsher. And even then, well, you get the point.
An apology to Susan would not be undesireable.
DireLobo @ 201
I refer you to my previous comment.
Andrew Sullivan is a divisive individual and I couldn’t care less what his opinion is.
If you have sleep apnea or think you might, do something about it.
Patrick 4/4 @
202
Sorry: In the 70/30 days no doubt.
This is a bit late to post something this good, but I’ve been so busy today, I somehow forgot to read this ROFL from today’s Anchorage Daily News:
Friday afternoon we got a call from Rep. Don Young’s campaign wondering if the Daily News was treating letters about the congressional race with an even hand. The campaign manager said he knows people from across the state send in letters supporting Don Young.
Our response: We can’t print what we don’t get. We haven’t received any letters supporting Don Young. We have been getting letters supporting his Democrat opponent Diane Benson regularly, and we’ve only run a sampling of those letters, not all of them.
http://www.adn.com/opinion/let…..4082c.html
I don’t really have a dog in this hunt, but I will pass along this from salon.com:
Yup, I sure like that Andrew Sullivan now that he’s changed sides. Why he must now be the enemy of my enemy.
After all, no wiser men than Darth and Dummy say “the enemy(Iraq) of my enemy(Iran) is my friend”.
/snark off
Tom Negrino, Dori, mmr and Susan Kitchens, the “enemy of my enemy” is not my friend!
Never was, never will be. Tis an old fool’s tale.
You may choose to praise Andrew for his apparent “conversion”. Others will not forget his complicity.
You may choose to view with admiration his current “I’ve seen the light” dialogue. Others will view it as self-serving avoidance of responsibility for the tragedy that we still endure.
In the end, I guess the best way to put it is Andrew Sullivan is all yours. You want him, you got him!
Feel free to give him all the hugs and smooches you desire.
Patrick 4/4 @
202
Sorry: In the 70/30 days no doubt.
oh, and to my list of thanks, I’ll add Tom and Dori… I was posting my little reply while you came online. Had no idea you sailed into this little TRex late night snark sling-fest. Makes my earlier statement about web n community all the more poignant. sniffle And sweet.
Too, gives fond memories of when we first met. People, Tom’s first words ever to me were a very direct expression of disappointment and anger (my boss bailed on a public speaking engagement and Tom was one of the people in charge at the event. I showed up as the fall grrl. Tom wasn’t the only one disappointed. I was, too). He was to the point, but well-contained. Kind of a nice (in zillion-years-later retrospect) counter balance to all this here hoo-hah.
Just wanted to let you know (not that anyone’s gonna take my word for it, after all, I’m a concern troll ™), Tom and Dori are no sock puppets.
yeah, TRex has started The War on CPAP-mas. Better tell O’Rielly. And Colbert, so Colbert can get out in front on this issue.
And Ed*ward Teller, thanks. BTW, right now I’m reading Richard Rhodes book, Dark Sun, the story of the Hydrogen Bomb. The story of the building of the “Super” bomb itself is a tendril that runs through accounts of the Soviet espionage of US atomic secrets, and the bomb that the Soviets built and the beginning of the Cold War and development of the H-bomb. So I’ve been immersed in the workings (and vagaries) of Edward Teller, the Hungarian physicist.
Currently I’m reading the chapter about the Korean War ‘50-’53, which is scarily relevant to these days of posturing of our country’s Dear Leader and that other Evil Country’s Dear Leader. etc.
So, E*ward, each time I think of you, I picture the bushy-eyebrowed impetuous man behind the thermonuclear weapons. I figure you’re prolly different, tho.
testing 1,2,3,
testing, testing.
Is there a reason my comments are not posted?
Did I make the no-fly list somehow?
Since there’s nothing in the POST about Andrew’s disability, and the PICTURE may not have been chosen by the poster, perhaps the complaints about the picture should be directed to management and not the poster.
Haven’t we been around this “it’s not the post it’s the picture atop it” maypole once before here at FDL?
Paging darkblack….
.. or paging Mrs. Huffington.
ET—you mean even their “loyal supporters” are lying to them about their support? Priceless.
Teddy, the more I think about it, that WaPoo post about Hastert reads like an obituary.
Susan Kitchens @
209
only picture of me I’ll own up to on the web:
http://www.criticalconcern.com…..eping_.htm
So, his staff are telling him that his supporters are writing letters to the editor and his supporters are telling him they are writing letters to the editor, so he complained to the paper and they printed the complaint along with their reason for not printing such supportive letters — which is that there are none??
Oh, that’s rich.
Suzanne @ 213
It’s on page 1, which is a top-of-the-ladder decision at the paper. On Monday.
I hear some shoes calling to their mates to drop. Something’s up. Oh, and within-striking-range shithot John Laesch got mentioned as well!!
cbear at 210,
Refresh your browser, that sometimes works if your comments got hung up somehow.
I use a CPAP machine and I don’t find the picture offensive. The pic makes Sullivan look alien, and by doing so, it complements the piece.
I imagine I look strange when I wear my nasal pillows–I know they scared the hell out of my grandson when he first saw me hooked up. Bit, if a similar pic were used on a similar article about me, I doubt the photo would be the thing that angered me.
ten-hut!! The General’s in the house.
Hi Ms. Hamsher 138:
Good lord, are you really suggesting that Andrew Sullivan would stoop to sock-puppetry? I don’t mean to come off as overly sycophantic about the guy, but to my mind that’s exceedingly unlikely, and confirms for me that you, TRex et al really don’t get him. Like, at *all.* If I’m not mistaken, his is (or at least was) the most highly read blog on the Web, and given his chosen ideological placement, he gets hate mail and flamed by pretty much everyone. In fact, he rather frequently quotes, in his blog, flame mail far worse than anything TRex came up with, and responds to it publically. The notion that he’s sitting there sock-puppeting because some guy on FDL made fun of him is simply laughable.
And…um…”please try to be respectful of posters?” I’m pretty sure I did tell Trex that I generally enjoy his writing. I also told him precisely what I thought of this column, using a few words that are possibly only considered appropriate on DKos…ha ha. But I really think that suggesting that my comment constituted an inappropriate response to what TRex wrote is also kind of amusing more than anything else.
Finally: responding to my request for quotes to support Trex’s idiotic ad hominum psychologizing by quoting, again, Sullivan’s own three year old — and clearly meant to be wry — quote about being attracted to Cheney is tres lame. On a certain level I’m just offended at the snarky dismissal of someone who is an exceptional writer (certainly twice the writer TRex is, so far as I know, and I like TRex). But on a political level I’m offended as well; Trex writes about the guy as if he is still a Bush/Cheney defender, when in fact, given his longterm Republican/conservative credentials and the general popularity of his work, he is today in fact one of their most prominent and arguably important detractors…show me a commentator who gets to the heart of the matter of the evil of this administration more persuasively and eloquently than this…
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KuR4XBvbZzw
Anyway — whatever. Onward to victory. We all (Sullivan most certainly included — please do watch the video) want to see a Democratic landslide in 3 weeks and 2 days. Eyes on the prize, and all that.
crap, my pj’s are not inspection pj’s.
“clearly meant to be wry” — dude, Andrew was oversharing, but he wasn’t being wry, he was confessing his man-love for Cheney.
Suzanne @ 222
they don’t have the flap on the rear?
JC Christian, Patriot @ 219
General, please forgive the French provenance – not to say, Provence of my Lynchian photo tribute to Little Roy.
TeddySanFran @
215
Is that ROFL or LMHO? I mean, Young’s campaign DOES have a lot of competition out there nationally, RGB. You’re right, it’s pretty rich.
This illustrates both the arrogance of the GOP DC crowd and the disconnect growing between the operatives and their “alleged” base.
Ed*ard Teller @172:
So which is it — are we “the same person” or “something similar”?
If you’re looking at our blog, was it the “All entries 1999-2006 Tom Negrino and Dori Smith” at the bottom of every page that gave you your first hint, or the “Posted by” followed by one of our names on each and every post? (Current count on the front page: me 5, Tom 3, joint 1).
Or maybe you answered the question when you described the site as “Mr. Negrino’s web site.” Am I just the little woman at home who shouldn’t have a public voice?
Thanks for the advice Margot.
OT
Today I went to a candidates’ debate here in OH-18, Ney’s old district. One GOP candidate was asked, “Are you now under investigation by the FBI?”
He responded, “Not to my knowledge.”
All around the library auditorium people were glancing at each other and whispering, “That’s interesting.”
Dori @
227
Thanks. Sorry, but I didn’t have the time to get into the content or premise of your site to that point. Had I been able to spend more time there, I probably would have quickly observed that you two are pretty close. That’s nice.
Margot @ 229
omg this question must be asked of THEM ALL!!!!
isn’t there a woman GOPer running to replace Ney?
Mad Dogs @ 207
Uh, that would be “none.”
Looks like you need to work on that reading comprehension, or at least stop misrepresenting what we said. Dori, Susan, and I have no love for Sullivan’s politics, nor did we defend him in any way. Susan and I didn’t like TRex’s post, and had the apparent gall to say so. Dori and I thought it was a cheap shot to put up a picture of Sullivan in his CPAP mask, because the picture mocks the guy’s disability, and as far as we knew, that’s a tactic of the LGF mob, not the FDL community. In neither case did we endorse what Sullivan’s said.
And speaking of Hastert, I must compliment the General on the photo on his blog of Brent Schepp’s house with the big ol’ HASTERT sign out front. Priceless.
Should we start calling him Speaker Hasbeen? Seems more appropriate somehow. :)
And that image was on the teebee! In Chicago! *g*
TeddySanFran:
I’m straight, but I’m just going to come out and state that I refuse to believe that practically any gay male could find Dick Cheney hotter than John Edwards. lol.
The guy went on CNN with the mask on, to talk about CPAP. How does putting that picture atop the post “mock the guy’s disability?”
…and how many days are there until the election?
TeddySanFran @ 235
It’s completely a propos, answering as it does the pressing question, “How can Andrew Sullivan sleep at night?”
reviser @ 221
I don’t see why johnny-come-lately converts to the cause must be rated highly and gratefully by people who got there a lot earlier. In a mainstream audience, perhaps, but not in a FDL crowd.
Sullivan supported Kerry, but oh-so-reluctantly and when Bush won, Sullivan immediately said, “well, the American people have spoken and I trust them! I welcome my new president!” A gracious sentiment, but in two years of hindsight, a little premature perhaps? As if the past to that point wasn’t prologue.
It’s the same thing now. He wants Democrats to win to punish the Republicans, not because they will simply govern better and according to a more genuine philosophy of concern. Within a month of the Democrat landslide he’ll start his sniping. Don’t be taken in just because he knows how to string words together.
my opinion is that anyone who got conned into supporting the Iraq war has blood on their hands, regardless of how earnest they were at the time. the signs were just too obvious that they were pulling the wool over our eyes. nevertheless, Sullivan does make a fairly credible case for atonement in the salon interview:
reviser @ 234
Come to SF to see the broad range of diverse sexuality celebrated and expressed openly! There are entire subcultures hereabouts devoted to the worship of the Hastert-like, and Sullivan’s paeans to bearlife make it clear he could be among them.
Not all gays are attracted to the gymnasts!
punaise @ 206
before mid ‘06 – map shows treasure where Andrew sucks up to Bush.
begin mid ‘06 – map shows treasure where Andrew sucks up to Bush’s GOP critics*
(* see flotsam, rats clinging to, washed up on skanky beach…)
TeddySanFran @ 235
TRex @ 99
As has been noted above, the goal of that “ridiculous” picture was to save lives. Referring to someone trying to get people to use their prescribed CPAP machines (anyone know just what the non-compliance rate is?) as an “attention whore” — well, I think that counts as mocking not only Sully, but everyone with sleep apnea.
RBG @
236
General Election all 50 States:
22 days, 1 hour, 59 minutes, and 48 seconds
Margot @ 229
That was the same line that Curt Weldon used the day the news came out that he was under investigation regarding his daughter’s lobbying activities… of course, a couple of days later, two other news sources confirmed that he was.
If anything, this election cycle will convince the public that they and the press have set the bar far too low in the past with regard to lying convincingly. :)
I dunno…
if a guy spends a couple of years slinging shitballs at people who think the war is a bad idea and implying that our dissent is somehow treasonous…
then comes late to the party to say “Oh, hey, dude… sorry…”
Look, he’s still got something all over his hands…. it’s either shit… or blood.
And, quite frankly, there was a lot of sweaty “I love a man of violence” war lust in his pro-war columns that I just found flat out CREEPY. I think that TRex picked up on that, and not a small number of Sullivan’s detractors find his waffling on the issue of the war as not being terribly exculpatory of that weirdness.
There are more than likely half a million Iraqis dead, and this guy was going all “Some Like It Hot” for the butchy-ness of Big Manly Men killing some Arabs.
So, y’know, I am not so keen on his conversion on the road to Damascus.
As for this teapot temptest about his CPAP snorkle… c’mon, folks, lighten up. If he’d worn his big ol’ adult diaper on CNN to talk about his little leakage problem, wouldn’t you see the attention-whore-ishness that TRex was lambasting?
Well, as I said, if your criticism was about the POST, then I don’t see the mockery. If your criticism was about the COMMENT (#99), then you’ve succeeded in highjacking the thread.
And if we are looking for metrics about non-compliance, how many viewers were motivated to either use their prescribed devices that night, or see if they needed a device, because Sully wore his on teevee?
Dori @ 242
Oh, my. That’s a bit much, innit?
WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN???
patrick rex @ 247
If you found the picture funny you are “objectively pro-sleep apnea.”
A friend asked me a minute ago “How many of firedoglake’s special house candidates have been people of color?” I was embarrassed ’cause I couldn’t give an answer. I said I thought there had been more than one, but couldn’t remember any individual. G*d, there are a lot of candidates out there!
Ed*ard Teller @ 214
This has already been handled by others, but Tom Negrino and Dori Smith are a husband-and-wife team, both well-known writers of books about Mac computers. I own at least a couple of books by one or the other of them.
And if it’s ok for Glenn Greenwald’s partner to comment on blogs from the same IP as Glenn, it’s ok for Tom and Dori to jump in on a blog they don’t normally comment on, using the same IP address. (Heck, I never bother commenting normally either, being in the wrong time zone and all.)
I once got a NICE email from Dave Winer! It was back in 1996 when almost no-one had a personal web site. Does that give me a Winer number? Perhaps in the space of complex numbers?
Is Hastert in legal trouble for helping Abramoff?
That’s from the WaPo article linked @197. I’ve kept up with the Abramoff case, but I don’t remember seeing Hastert’s name linked to him like this. Does anyone else?
20,000 blogs under the sea
Patrick 4/4 @ 248
All I can say is, from this portion of the thread, that it’s a very, very good thing that Sullivan wasn’t invited on CNN after having a colostomy….
TeddySanFran @ 217
Damn, the WaPoo must have heard we’re going to start running “Have You Had Enough?” radio spots in IL-14 this week. : )
montag @ 253
No self respecting gay man would go out and show off his colostomy bag….. if for no other reason than because finding the right pair of shoes to go with it… just impossible….
Jacqrat @
255
I’ve asked Shailagh when a WaPo reporter is going out to cover the shithot challenger’s campaign, since the article mentions that he’s within 10 points of Denny.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00874.html
It’s just brilliant writing TRex but I am damned if I know who this Sullivan guy is. At first I thought darkblack had put some kind of nuevo sexual device on the guy for a joke…bottom line: I’m not sorry for any of these so-called conservatives who are now weeping into their mush that Bush betrayed them, the religious nuts trying to stuff their beliefs down our throats whether we want them or not and the “real” conservatives who all of a sudden just woke up to the fact that the white house gang drove them into the ditch and WHAAA!
now they are so sorry they voted for Bush and gosh! we’ll have to just hold our noses and vote for the liberal dems to save our asses. And these great minds, why, they just never knew that lil Georgie put Texas in the red in just a few short months of being elected governor and that the Bush brothers perpetrated the S & L Bank Ripoff and forced americans to pay off their dirty debt. What a surprise for those true conservatives!
I don’t buy it and after they tie on their bibs to eat crow pie in November they can watch the PROS take the wheel and clean up their mess.
patrick rex @ 256
On the upside, you do get to change your shoes every six hours…
patrick rex @ 255
And, here, Sullivan always struck me as the brown wingtip type….
and on that tasteless note (I can’t believe I made that shoes/bag joke…. I’m going to hell), I must bid you all adieu.
I can’t believe I am awake this late on a school night.
punaise @
253
my wife deemed me an unworthy poet after I wrote “20,000 Leaks Under the Ceiling” about this place:
http://www.terragalleria.com/a…..37228.html
downunder girl @ 251
Cha-ching! (and thank you!)
No no no — that’s only if our comments are adulatory. Otherwise, we’re sock puppets (says Jane) who hijack threads (says TeddySanFran).
All that crying in the late seventies about how Nixon destroyed the Republican brand is what allowed the rehabilitation of the monsters Cheney and Rumsfeld. So — rehabilitation of this regime’s “former” supporters must be permitted only with great scrutiny and care. As I’ve said before here, we don’t want young escapees from the cabal to come back and haunt us or our heirs in 2020.
Dori, Tom: we’re done talking about you now.
Are you?
Well, I just got here after working past 2 a.m. CDT. No time to read 200 comments. I just want to say that TRex’s analytical skills were mighty sharp tonight. Now to browse a few comments.
hi neuro!
Technorati is currently tracking 57.2 million blogs…and somehow I can’t leave the one with the burgeoning ziggurat.
RBG @ 267
57.2 million blogs. Sort of makes you feel insignificant, like looking up at the night sky. :)
Tom Negrino at 232:
Hmmm…it appears that you’re the one who needs to work on reading comprehension. Try re-reading Susan’s post at 50 which says:
Try re-reading your own post 112, where you defended Susan’s point (and dissed TRex’s writing) like thus:
Only secondarily did you then put forth your “strawman” picture objections to TRex’s post (with of course, another dig at his writing) with:
Don’t worry, go ahead and give Andrew some hugs and smooches. We’ll keep your secret!
RBG @
268
…….an’t hear you……………?
Hi,Teddy. Wide awake, are you?
And just for the record, I’ve Had Enough.
TeddySanFran @ 264
This is absolutely right. The road to Damascus is very crowded right now with “converts”. I don’t believe them for a second. This sudden clarity of vision is about saving the brand. It’s all about conservatives putting the poison Tylenol in a new “Bush-resistant” package.
There’s nothing wrong with “Maximum Strength Conservatism”. It was that darbned Bush who made it toxic – and we swear, in the new package it will never happen again.
TeddySanFran @ 240
Oh Teddy, I’m a bear up here in the woods of NH, but, seriously Andrew Sullivan attracted to Cheney? It boggles the mind. I mean, at least none of my dates could be described as squamous or rugose
*makes the universal Cthulhu sign, by wiggling fingers under his chin*
spiderpaws @
258
The thing that made me laugh was when people got all upset at paying $3 a gallon for gas. DUUUuuuh! Look who you elected!
As I was saying TRex, great writing…you should be teaching a critical thinking class
I don’t think that’s fair, Dori. Given that blogs like FDL do get infestations of trolls (concern or regular flavor), and suddenly a bunch of previously unknown commenters jumped in the way you did…
Well, you were observationally equivalent to trolls even though you really weren’t, and it’s not surprising that Jane or Teddy didn’t recognise your names if they’re not Mac zealots like me. Given the context, their reactions made sense. An honest, if incensed, mistake is all.
(And I say this as someone who has no reason to take any side on this. You and I actually corresponded a couple of times some years ago, but I’m not revealing that particular CSS-expertise pseudonym here. I like to keep my past double lives separate from my present ones.)
Andrew Sullivan, meet Gen Shinseki (Ret.)
Gen. Shinseki is the US Army Chief of Staff Bush/Rummy/Cheney pushed out before the Iraq War.
You may have read about it in the Washington Post and Los Angeles Times, as well as the UK Guardian and Independent.
Wiki sez: [Shinseki] is famous for his remarks to the Senate Armed Services committee before the war in Iraq in which he said “something in the order of several hundred thousand soldiers” would probably be required for post-war Iraq. Secretaries Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz publicly disagreed with his estimate.
Andrew Sullivan, the reality based English speaking press discussed this for weeks before the Iraq invasion.
Where the fuck were you? Gooper rehab camp?
And if you’ll pretend you didn’t hear it – tough shit. More Gooper lies.
You weren’t deceived – you were and are eagerly, tremblingly, achingly complicit.
A hack “pundit” paid to live well and flack a hideous war.
Until a better career move comes along.
And this year it did.
Worm.
Andrew Sullivan is a miserable, lying, neocon faggot, even if he’s seen the error of his ways. I’m sorry he has sleep apnea (I wish it was someone even more deserving like Dick Cheney or Michelle Malkin), but physical disabilities still don’t excuse bad moral judgments. Sorry, Andrew, you’re still going to hell.
**peeks out**
are they gone?
Jacqrat!
Ed*ard Teller @ 250
What color? Is there an unacceptable color? :)
What a fine post and a quirky thread. I think I first heard of Sully on Mahers show last year and this year when he hired that wonketta. Somehow I think he would have been able to chuckle at this post-n-thread more than its detractors.
Late happy B-day wishes to Suzanne..
g’nite
neurophius @ 272
I hope that comment did not come off somehow the wrong way. I am happy to see Teddy SanFran. Teddy often ends his comments with the question, Had Enough? Right now, I have had enough not only of the Bush maladministration, but also of my master’s program. *g*
Patrick 4/4 @ 272
In this context, it’s worth remembering that Sullivan, pre-immigration, was an ardent Thatcherite (as I recall, working in her think tank), so I see him as an infiltrator, coming to spread her version of conservative evil in the colonies.
What Sullivan wishes, more than anything, is that Bush would emulate Maggie’s best friend, Ronnie Raygun. That he will spread that meme after Bush has fallen on his ass re: Iraq is a foregone conclusion.
radlib1 @ 279
I’m fairly certain Cheney has sleep apnea. Michelle has other problems.
spiderpaws @ 281
(((((((spiderpaws)))))))
Somewhat OT, but has anyone else noticed that Mike Lupica (for the uninitiated, the principal columnist for the best sports section of any daily newspaper in America, the NY Daily News) has recently been trying to follow in KO’s footsteps?
He got off a great line on Sunday, referring to Foley as “a new answer to Liz Smith’s old question about who might give Michael Jackson the creeps.”
When the regime gets zinged on the sports pages of the Reagan Democrats’ newspaper of record, it’s not unreasonable to conclude that the jig is up.
neurophius @ 283
=========
Had Enough?
=========
gotta go to sleep, ‘pups! g’nite all.
YES!
Jacqrat…how on earth do you know Dickey has sleep apnea? Are you saying he wears one of those devices? That is truely rich! Perhaps he could be led by the hose to his jail cell when he is charged with war crimes.
Teddy 240:
I live in Glen Park and have repeatedly wallowed in the Folsom Fair, and I’ll still have to hear a guy tell me Cheney is hot to believe it. ;)
TeddySanFran @
211
See my 105,Teddy…Don’t ask me how the time travel occured.
;>)
Oh, by the way, Thank you T-Rex, you glorious therapod, for the commentary on Andrew Sullivan. I remember hearing him, seeing him on tv, way back, and thought he was too irritating for words to adequately describe. I love his voice, it’s what he says with it, that peeves me off.
One of my dearest friends has sleep apnea, as does her husband. One night at a party they had, they modeled their matching masks, and the hubby, a medical doctor, gave us a little lecture on sleep apnea etc. They proceeded to keep ‘em on for quite a while and got sillier and sillier, it was ROTFLMAO for all of us. My friend and her hubby are very bright, witty people, wish i had a video of that night.
Err, i guess i don’t wish that because i realize we were all being Very Insensitive and Disrespectful Toward People with Sleep Apnea. But, but, my friends are the kindest, most compassionate people I’ve ever met. And they would be the first to laugh at Trex’s snark. Ohh, this is making my head hurt.
Guess i’ll follow my instincts here…make a big batch of my triple-chocolate cookies (choc cookies w choc chips and choc frosting) and leave out a big virtual plate of them tomorrow night in hopes that the Trex will appear.
I see spiderpaws is here, i’ve admired your astrological insights, doesn’t this month (so far) seem like a preview of Pluto into Cap?
Methinks, Jacqrat doth rib us about Cheney, but the picture is right anyway. He’s always going underground into his secret cave and the mask image fits. If only someone would rip off his mask and expose him to the poison he’s released into this world. I’d love to watch him writhe and gasp for breath. (I, of course, would be watching from a glass viewing room.)
..and darkblack…my computer crashed the other night when I clicked on your Tom Delay Crown of Thorns image. In fact I couldn’t get back online for quite awhile…
You can always tell which way the wind is blowing when Sully speaks. I don’t actually mind when a person genuinely wants to rehabilitate themself. His tone is more appealing I suppose. In the past he has wrapped himself up tightly in his Roman Catholic faith. I was always sort of wondering if they actually allow him to put the Body of Christ into his mouth or the precious Cup of the Blood of Christ to his lips. I mean, you’ve gotta keep up with the Sacrament of Reconciliation, among other things, to be in communion with the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Oh, to be a fly on the wall in the booth with Sully and his Confessor… On second thought, if his cash donations are current on his parish’s accounting ledger, probably no problem at all for Sully.
No Radlib1! You would take the hose and give it a good jerking first. Then watch the gasping.
NewDealFarmGrrrlll…am shuddering to think about Pluto in Capricorn since it means huge changes for me. But what I am thinking about is the US Mars going retrograde for the first time in many, many years. Nancy over at StarliteNews.com has an interesting take on it as well as Maya at Daykeeperjournal.com. They both seem to think we will turn into an absolute police state.
Imagine if you will, pluto, the great destroyer, taking down the status quo as we know it. Interesting, eh?
spiderpaws @ 297
I’m sorry to hear that, spiderpaws…Was it an image problem?
Spiderpaws, when does Mars go retrograde? I don’t remember the last time I heard that. (Mercury I tend to keep track of)
Sorry if my earlier posts read a bit like geek name dropping (personal emails from Dave Winer and Dori Smith!). I just didn’t like seeing two bloggers I like fighting.
I’ll go back to lurking on the other side of the world now.
spiderpaws, haven’t read those yet (way too much ot lately at work plus my oldest getting married) but i’ll definite check them out as i have the sites bookmarked. Yes, the US Mars retrograde…could be scary. My friends have been asking for several years WHEN will BushCo’s lies and shenanigans be exposed? I’ve said 2008 (dems in, bush out) when Pluto enters Capricorn as Cap rules government and authority and Pluto loves to dig up all the dirt esp. with sexual stuff. The news re all Gooper stuff makes me think of Betty Lunsted’s opinion that the outer planets start affecting something as much as ten degrees ahead, yeah, big orb but my goodness isn’t the news interesting from that perspective?
downunder girl @ 277
And, gulp…
I just figured out who you (probably) are. Email being sent off right now to the last address I have for you, as we need to talk. If you don’t still get email to that address, please write me.
And now I go back to lurking again myself.
Beard5: It is not transiting Mars that goes retrograde…it is Mars by progression from 1776 making a station at 18*42 Libra and then turning retrograde in the US chart. Mars by tradition represents the military affairs of any nation. It’s a long story and many astrologers are taking a crack at it but no one really knows because it has never happened before in US history…but Mercury does go retrograde Oct 28 so get your big projects out of the way before then and there is a big gathering of planets in Scorpio soon and a Mercury/Jupiter conjunction as well in Scorpio. Lots more sex and scandal to come and maybe involving money too. Lastly a Jupiter/Saturn square coming too.
Maybe there’s a need at the moment to look outside the blog window and see what’s happening.
It ain’t pretty.
Whoo boy, Spiderpaws, sounds like fun times for the astrologers. Unfortunately, I’ve got a truly major project happening on Oct 31. (Oy gevalt.)
That’s something I may end up studying a bit, down the road. I have a couple friends who are researching medieval astrological methods, as best as possible.
Tom @ 232,
I don’t know that I said anything here for or against Andrew Sullivan’s politics, and I wouldn’t necessarily stand by Tom’s characterization of how I view Sullivan.
In my response to Dear FireDogLake Late Night Leader He Who Must Not Be Insulted Because He’s So Damn Snarkalicious Just Lighten Up Already You Just Don’t Get It ™, I was protesting in particular the trend to lump him in with all the other evil republicans and damn him there. F*ck him and his vote for the Democrats in this election. Oops. Except we want to elect Democrats too. Well, he’s such a blowhard, so f*ck him anyway. Hate Mommy Waaah!
So, er, I’ll bite (and then yall can pelt me with FireDogLake ConcernTrollSnarkStones ™ —better than Afghanistan-style stoning because it’s all ascii and maybe gets searched by Google!) What I appreciate about Sullivan’s writing is that he’s been carving out spaces inside realms that have been claimed and framed and owned by the Hard Line Right Wing. In doing so, he’s re-introducing shades of gray to black-white and creating space for people to change their minds.
Lock-step faith versus a faith that includes and embraces doubt. Sullivan bats for faith doubt. Alleged-Compassionate Conservatism vs classical conservatism. Sullivan bats for the classical kind; points out how it’s counter to ersatz Conservatism claimed by Dear Leader. (There’s also his analysis of statements by the Pope, too, which I won’t go into here.)
And, in response to several “sure he changed his mind; he’s got to answer for previous stance, tho” responses: Sure, his CPAP-wearing mug may offend the hell out of you. But he might, you know, be opening up spaces of doubt in others who’ve previously supported Bush et. al. He might be, like, you know, getting some R-voters to switch to D. For reasons that aren’t necessarily the same as yours, but sheesh, if eyes-on-the-prize and 50.5% results in D columns is the goal, what’s the problem?
His “offensive blowhardness” may produce the same result as TPM reader CH had, as Josh Marhsall notes in this post re: Foley
People who, like, you know, supported the war at the outset. Or were conflicted and ambivalent at the outset.
Do you treat those people the same way as Sullivan? Will you give those other voters a pass if they vote in the D column in a month’s time?
Do you want to win?
. . .
Ah, but what do I know? I’m just a concern troll.
NewDealFarmGrrrlll: And what is even more interesting is the fact that the progressed Mars of George Bush is at 16*18 Libra!!!!! What do you think of that?
beard5, have your friends checked out http://www.kepler.edu? (Sorry, too tired to figure out links.) It’s an excellent place.
Beard5: If you started the project before retrograde you should be okay. It is not a good time to start new stuff or initiate things. Just remember to check, check, and recheck the details of your project and leave nothing to chance. If you know your rising sign I can tell you where the retrograding Mercury falls in your chart and what areas of your life would be most affected.
spiderpaws: I know! Will the twenty-year cycle get him? But it would leave Cheney in charge. If there is a benevolent God, could s/he arrange for Bush and Cheney to be standing next to each other at the correct time? What’re your guesses?
downunder girl – are we related? I’m a yank semi-expat living in Brisvegas. There are several other commenters/lurkers from the land downunder. I’ve heard from Sydney, Melbourne and Perth so far.
spider
(waving hi) i take it retrograde mercury and progressed mars both in libra is bad for george & co? i have no idea what that means but it sounds good.
NewDealFarmGrrrlll @ 310
NewDealFarmGrrlll, I have no idea, but I’ll send them the link. It looks interesting.
Spiderpaws, if rising sign, you mean my sign, I’m Pisces.
I just usually check online to see the phase of the moon (third day after the full moon, I absolutely do not leave the house. I’m severely agoraphobic, so I don’t go out much anyways, but the third day after full is particularly unpleasant)and check if Mercury is retrograde. Which I suspect is just a simple observation of it’s orbit from here.
Suzanne (waving back over the redwood trees) Actually Mercury goes retrograde in Scorpio and the US progressed Mars goes retrograde in Libra and it just so happens it is at the same degrees as George Bush’s progressed Mars. So it would be a “significant” time for him since his fate is very tied to the fate of the US (for a number of reasons too complicated to say in this post) No One really knows how it will affect him but there are astrologers who are speculating. NewdealFarmGirl was talking about the 20 year cycle of presidents, how every twenty years a president dies in office and has since the 1800’s. Bush is the twenty year guy right now and it will probably happen to him as the cycle hasn’t failed except with Reagen who almost died (really, he could have been brain dead!) But there is also a pattern within the pattern and that is that every other twenty years the president died in his second term instead of his first. And on that note I am headed out to see the stars and the very fat spiders.
…one last word to beard5…Pisces would be your sun sign and it is possible you have Cancer rising or at least some planets in the sign of cancer since you are affected by the waning moon. And the fact that you hardly ever go out points to a lot of planets in cancer (as in staying in your crab shell) You could try working with moon phases for instance by using the waxing moon energy to get things done and to even step out right near the full moon when you would have the most confidence.
thanks and enjoy the stars (and the spiders too) spidey.
Enjoy the night and the spiders, Spiderpaw.
Well folks, it’s 6:15 in the morning here, in NH. And though it’s almost time for Old Sow’s morning cup of coffee, I think I can get some sleep. (insomnia strikes)So good night, and good day to everyone.
Petedownunder:
Uhh, no, we’re not related, I was born in Australia, currently living in Sydney. I just have a morbid fascination with US politics and snark. It’s also my atonement for not doing more to fight Little Green Footballs’ descent from second-tier web-design blog to the barrell-scraping horror show it is today.
Dori:
If you guessed right, that email was shut down about eighteen months ago. This site has been static since 2004, so I wasn’t getting any non-spam mail through that address for about a year before I flicked the switch.
– DUG, who just realised she used to capitalise this pseudonym
Hey TRex,
Looks like I might get the last word tonight. The post is great, but at first I thought the Sullivan image was fake or weirdly photoshopped. Now that my blondness realizes this poor schmuck forces himself into a Hannibal Lechter Special to sleep at night, his fantasy of rolling on his back begging Dick “Daddy Bear” Cheney to scratch his tummy makes more sense. I guess he’s never heard of a Breathe-Right strip.
What really gets me is the fact that the gay world is alloted one talking head on the main stream media’s airwaves, and they give us this smug piehole rightwing catholic worthless reactionary. My fantasy is that if the tides are truly changing, Sullivan can slowly fade away into obscurity, maybe a nice self-flagellating Benedictine sect will take him in, and the media can replace him with someone more representative of a broader gay community. Signorile would be a nice start. He might have the temerity to mention the ongoing gay genocide that the civil war in Iraq has spawned; apparently the one thing all Shia, Sunni and Kurd can agree on is killing the queers. The more effeminate gay men are the easiest targets, their own families are often their executioners. A few of the lucky have escaped to London to tell this brutal tale and are desparately trying to get help for their gay brothers. But Andrew wouldn’t know anything about that.
Morning All. Wishing for Peace and Justice for everyone and sending a special shout out, filled with love and healing prayers, for Tommy Yum and his family.
Mad Dogs @ 21
Mad Dogs, are you calling Sully a gay “scat bottom?” That’s pretty mean.
Sully is a self loathing queer. Like many self-loathers, he tries to use Conservatism as a crutch and shield to reassure the outside world he’s really a man.
Well, he’s a man anyway, but Sully doesn’t quite “get it.” Bluntly put, he likes cock. Pressures in society say, “he can’t like cocks, that a woman’s job.” So, Sully over-compensates with hot ideological claptrap. He gives himself no way to grow out of his dilemma, because he’s trying to be too many things at once.
Sully would sooner die than admit that men like John Aravosis and Michaelangelo Signorile scare the hell out of him. John and Mike have come to grips with themselves and have grown in maturity and knowledge, and now command respect for the strenght of their convictions and willingness to confront injustice.
Sully can’t come to grips with himself, and is stuck in juvenile hot Conservatism, and then wonders what’s wrong with himself.
That’s the way I see Sullivan.
Morning Firepups,
I’ll echo Old Sow, and send my best wishes to Tommy Yum and his family. Cool and clear again this morning in central Jersey. Coffee’s made–it’s French Roast with a touch of French Vanilla–and the bagels are fresh. Who needs a cup? Some fresh chives with the cream cheese on your bagel?
I had registered on line last week, to help the Dems with get-out-the-vote calls, but didn’t get a confirming email or phone call. I re-registered on line yesterday, and will call today to confirm. I’ve got plenty of weekend projects coming up [time to get the porch screens put away, and porch windows put in place; bring the potted herb plants into their winter home on the porch; cut back the ivy; get bulbs planted; clean up the garden; take the air conditioners out of the windows; raking can wait until after November 7]. I can make calls as a break from autumn chores.
Mr. NJP heads off to another peace group meeting this week. He’s worried–like Digby–that BushCo bombing Iran is no longer an “if,” only a matter of “when.”
I don’t think much about the voices in the Mighty Wurlitzer. I don’t watch television any more [no, not even PBS], so I don’t even recognize lots of the “idiot wind.” I am grateful that there are people willing to watch and call them out for stupidity and mendacity.
Three cheers for pushing back, in every way.
Work for peace, every day.
Morning everyone.
From the AP
Lieberman Mum on How He’ll Vote for Gov.
IMO,Sully is just doing what bully enablers do,switch sides or back down the second the bully is exposed as being a loser. OK,some will hang with the bully til the end,but most people with two brain cells that fire in unison will start bailing when the ship takes on too much water. That makes them no less responsible for the damage they stood back and allowed to happen while cheering it on. Trust is earned,just saying”ooops,my bad” doesn’t mean jack. I’d almost bet my lunch money that if those poll numbers weren’t sinking,the scandals weren’t rampant and out in the open,and talk of war crimes wasn’t being mentioned anywhere,none of these folks who just now found their conscience would be admitting a damned thing was wrong. If they vote Dem,good on them,but I still don’t trust ‘em,not one damned bit. Earn the trust,then we’ll chat.
All the lies and dirty tricks and Sully is just NOW getting it? Come on. There’s more than enough evidence in the public domain(and god help us what’s still secret,yipes)to prove over and over and over again what BushCo has done to screw the country. You don’t have to be a master detective to figure it out.
And please say it with me kids,Bill Clinton is NOT a progressive. Hillary isn’t either.
If the GOP has been taken over by”a sliver”then where are the majority of”sensible conservatives”willing to take back their party from the crazy people? Seems to me if they gave a damn they would have cleaned house by now. Give me a freaking break.
My hubby has used a CPAP for about 6 or 7 yrs now,I didn’t take offense to the pic,neither did he. Apnea isn’t a disability,it’s a sleep disorder for crying out loud. I realize it can be deadly if untreated,and sleep deprivation is an awful thing,but it’s not a disability,it’s a treatable disorder,like diabetes or high blood pressure. Geesh.
I realize that, as a writing conceit, the gay thing gives you lots of material. But it makes for a pretty shallow essay.
I watched Sullivan and Peter Beinart on Marty Moss-Coane’s Fresh Air Friday night, and if I didn’t know I was supposed to hate these two guys already, what transpired was an intelligent thoughtful discussion. Someone who didn’t know that she was supposed to discount everything Sullivan says from now on into forever, because of what he has said in the past, would have enjoyed the solid intelligent questions and the in-depth answers that both guys gave. Without the beat-down, shout-over, pyrotechnic snarkiness that is trs hip these days.
It was actually a conversation. I almost was going to not watch, because I “knew” what they both were going to say. I’m glad I stayed with it. The contrast between the content of that show and the snark here is striking. It makes me sad.
John Casper @ 327
He also won’t say he’s in favor of a Dem takeover of the House.
Yep, Joe is surely going to caucus with the Dems if he wins. And pigs can fly.
Good Morning Firedogs,
Hey Karen Allen ! – a bearhug from John Murtha ?!?!? I am sooo envious
still can’t find any video of Murtha’s appearance for Vic Wulsin on Saturday – anyone ?
morning, pups! coffee is good for you brain!
been away for a couple days – anything new?
Now that’s a Late Nite discussion thread.
cbl,
no video, but lots of pics and mp3s here
http://blog.oh02.com/2006/10/15/a-perfect-moment/
Pach — wow. Looks like mods almost needed to break out the thorazine-loaded dart gun.
I don’t get all the defensiveness on Sully’s behalf.
Sully = self-hating apologist enabler.
Hitting the undo button 6 years, 3000 American troops and nearly three-quarters of a million Iraqi lives later simply doesn’t work.
Thanks BQ ! just now got back from listening to the mp3 – once I found and bookmarked the 02 blog.
I’m sure that old Marine and I would disagree on lots of issues but man is he R-E-A-L
cincy papers have Doc Vic up by 3-8 points !
not that the Left Coasters are up yet, but they have a chance to see Hackett with Kos tonight in SF.
7:30
SIP Lounge
Powell & Broadway
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…../04510/373
Man, I’m sorry I was too wiped out to post in Late Night last night, but I’m glad I was conscious enough to read a bunch of it. This was a classic thread, gang!
west coasters ARE up and heading for the showers!
;-)
I know it’s early – but sweet jeebus – Drifty
(obligatory psa: spew alert)
http://driftglass.blogspot.com…..rning.html
Who the hell is Sullivan anyway, and how did this sad man become a pundit? Do you have to be some kind of freak to gain your 15 minutes of fame?… oh, of course…
A trivial point for the pedants among us- the expression is “card sharp,” not card shark. A card sharp is a gambler who hides his skill until he has sucked the mark into a high stakes game. Maybe he cheats, maybe not.
New thread, gang. Morning!
demit @329
TRex is on a crusade against log cabin Republicans and he is taking no prisoners. He particularly aims his verbal catapult against those gays who have associated themselves with the Bush administration. This is more of a strategic than a tactical decision.
He actually is still a warmhearted liberal who is willing to forgive and forget (at a certain price) on an individual basis.
Looking at his position from a strategic point of view, it makes lots of sense to oppose these enablers of gay hating. A gay turns against his brothers by enabling our evil Administration. When that happens, he is a legitimate target of scorn by those who have suffered and continue to suffer by his disloyal actions.
Susan Kitchens @ 308
His “offensive blowhardness” may produce the same result as TPM reader CH had, as Josh Marhsall notes in this post re: Foley
People who, like, you know, supported the war at the outset. Or were conflicted and ambivalent at the outset.
Do you treat those people the same way as Sullivan? Will you give those other voters a pass if they vote in the D column in a month’s time?
Do you want to win?
. . .
Ah, but what do I know? I’m just a concern troll.
Yes, we want to win. The things we’ve been doing toward that goal have been a hell of a lot more effective than making nice with people who formerly called us traitors because there was some slight possibility that they might move some tiny fraction of the vote this time.
People who were wrong about the war and have changed their minds are accepted all the time around here. People who bought the wingnut line to the extent of declaring us a fifth column have more to answer for.
The question isn’t “everyone must believe the same thing”; we’re not talking about “everyone” here. The question is, why do you believe we must not mock Sullivan? Why do you believe that it is so important for good progressives to embrace someone who so clearly does not embrace someone who view of the world, just for tactical advantage in one election? Winning is important, but not every possible tactical advantage is worth the strategic price.
I too like some of youse have read Andrew’s blog for a while. I started after Bush won the first time because it pained me that I had no idea really who these people were. Who had voted for W.
I think what keeps me going back to his infuriating blog is that there is a struggle with him, and it’s daily how he flips and flops. Sometimes he gets things right. For instance, he is the spokesperson to those Republicans who want to have us gay people killed/prevented from being able to pursue happiness, whatnot. He talks to these people, and he writes about it to a huge audience. His belief in marriage equality for homos has, I think, helped pave the way to where we are now. I never would have expected there to be full marriage rights in any state of the country. Never. I’d have laughed you off of a stage 15 years ago.
If you read him regularly you can note that even though he’s been mourning the loss of his conservatism, his barbs at liberalism are still pointed. When he desires something with passion, he goes whole hog on the subject. For instance the soldiers accused of torture at Abu Gahraib (sp?)? He wanted full justice thrown at them. But not a whisper about the higher-ups responsible for the soldiers’ actions.
Now he is a champion against torture, and has been quite articulate about it, but he still hearts McCain, just like he hearted Bush, and of course Cheney. He wanted big Daddies to go out and kill the mean men. Don’t know if you can go back and read his blogs during the run up to the war but TRex is right. The Daddy need for love is all there. Not that there’s anything wrong with it by itself. It’s just too bad that was his reason to trumpet about the Iraq War.
He still uses the term liberal as a sneer. Though at some point he began to referring to himself as a liberal….albeit of a different styling.
When Katrina disaster unfolded in front of our very eyes, he demanded that Michael Brown be fired. He started a very active campaign to get him fired. But not a word about the guys who put Michael Brown there in the first place. Hello President Bush? Hello Rummy?
He gives fake awards on occasion to various people of either extreme of the political discourse, such as the John Derbyshire Award., the Malkin Award, the Michael Moore award, but he does not distinguish between the most radical of the liberals (Moore) with those on the conservative side. Glenn Greenwald did a great post or two about how there are no high voltage liberals who advocate such things as death to any conservative, but there is a whole system of high profile Repubs who do. And yet Andrew Sullivan, with all of his Catholic reasoning and nuance over the most mundane (for me) cannot or will not take Glenn’s excellent point into consideration as he accuses another liberal of something heinous as pointing stuff out, maybe making soft comparisons.
Finally when Andrew began to lament the fall of his conservative heroes he said basically that all this spending was the same as a liberal government’s spending. No different. This has me thinking two things:
a) he missed Vice President Al Gore’s many appearances on such popular shows as David Letterman to do such things as smash ashtrays with a hammer while wearing safety glasses. The then VP Gore was going around showing people that he had found ways to shrink public spending that had been bloated during St Reagan and Bush 1 years. Andrew missed this? I find it hard to believe since he seems to be so connected to popular culture. So Andrew was using the stale liberal spending meme dishonestly.
b) It also tells me that this supposed brainiac of a guy can’t tell the difference between actions and intentions. The actions of the W presidency were to spend money so that Bush supporters/friends could benefit. It’s been obvious since day 1 that this was the case. Reward the friends; screw the country. Liberal spending on the other hand, has gone into such coffers to help people who need the help most. A very Catholic idea that he has eschewed. Sorry Andrew, can’t have that both ways no matter how you rationalize.
So while he has come around to hoping that Dems will be able to win this November, he does so with not the best of intentions. It will be to save the Republican party that resides in his mond, but hasn’t been on the ground in decades.
Don’t you realize that a sea change has been occurring? First James Baker, then a couple of Senators like Warner and Hagel, then the “leak” that old Father Bush hands are in dismay over the direction of the war in Iraq. They’re pumping up a campaign to change course and do exactly what Murtha has been calling for, only none of them is being called a “traitor” or a member of the “cut and run” group, as Murtha and others were. But that’s exactly what they’re proposing. And poor Andrew is being carried along on this sea change groundswell, doesn’t realize he’s being used. He’s a harbinger of others who will find themselves swept up by it, advocating that the Democrats need to step in, take some responsibility, get involved in a bi-partisan effort to reverse course. Grieve for all the men and women who were killed needlessly, grieve for those still to be killed needlessly, and, like it or not, give the Democrats a majority for the time being; even though they are wimpy, disorganized, and will become greedy in their own way soon enough.responsibility, get involved in a bi-partisan effort to reverse course.
TRex darling: this is genius. As are you in general. Wonderful, wonderful piece!
Remind me to NEVER tick off TRex…
Sullivan has blood on his hands and will spend the rest of his twisted life desperately trying to scrub it off.
I actually agree with you, Titanyum, most heartily, on the rightness of heaping scorn on those who have exhibited apparent Stockholm syndrome in their blind support of the Republican Party.
And thank you for addressing me directly. I’m assuming that the Thorazine comment above about “defensiveness” included me. I had to look up what Thorazine does. I wonder does Rayne know that the effect of a “Thorazine-loaded dart gun” would be to dull my mind and impair my ability to think? But I digress.
My point in making my original post was to voice the disconnect I felt, while reading TRex’s post, in recalling the televised radio show I watched a couple of nights ago. I mean, I love snark, and cleverness, but the tone of the post—especially the extended flippant psychology—didn’t advance anything. It seems only to want to discredit anything and everything that Sullivan will say now and in future.
I realized that my post might harsh the group buzz here, and maybe when all is said and done Andrew Sullivan really is a big giant dick, but I just wanted to put down what my observations were, for the record.
If I’m not with you (meaning the consensus opinion here) in this instance, it doesn’t mean I’m against you in everything. Anybody who wants to address me on substance, as you did, I would welcome that.
I love it when liberals go wild…
Sometimes you just have to give them back a tiny bit of what they have been dishing out for 30 years. Hate is contagious. And since they like the boot, let’s give it to them.
PS agree with 343:
“TRex is on a crusade against log cabin Republicans and he is taking no prisoners. He particularly aims his verbal catapult against those gays who have associated themselves with the Bush administration. This is more of a strategic than a tactical decision.
He actually is still a warmhearted liberal who is willing to forgive and forget (at a certain price) on an individual basis.
Looking at his position from a strategic point of view, it makes lots of sense to oppose these enablers of gay hating. A gay turns against his brothers by enabling our evil Administration. When that happens, he is a legitimate target of scorn by those who have suffered and continue to suffer by his disloyal actions. “
Salon.com has an interview with Mr. Sullivan up today (Monday).
Jane Hamsher said at 111: “Don’t like it when folks crawl out of the woodwork simply to trash TRex (or any of the posters, or commenters for that matter) & feel I need to draw a bit of a line sometimes. “
I believe I have exceeded the required quota of past comments not to have my opinions dismissed out of hand. Or not. In any case, my absence from comment threads of late is for reasons that track with what Susan Kitchens, Tom, and Dori have expressed in this thread.
I offer this comment in hopes that the management will give constructive criticism respectful consideration, rather than reflexively going into a defensive crouch at any whiff of it.
When stated that Sullivan has been “stalking patriarchies” I’m reminded that Drudge does the same thing. He’s a gay, republican, Jewish male living around the Palm Beach, Florida WASP wealth-that-could-choke-a-horse. Historically, WASPs and republicans never liked Jews. Drudge tries so hard to be a part of the republican scene, exposing lots of negative items on democrats and he’s still not accepted by them. He does their dirty work, their propaganda and he’s looked upon as that ‘jew with the hat’. You summed it best when you said about Sullivan and I applied it to Drudge too, “They still think you’re disgusting, but if you’re willing to do their work for them, they’re not going to try and stop you.”
As I trust most of you are aware I had my say on Sully’s egregiousness some timeback, earning the eternal emnity of repulsive slug Joan Walsh — who even launched a hit piece against me (go Google if you’re so inclined.)
In today’s “Saloon” she does clean-up providing Sully with a Come to “Oh Mary!” moment that would be amusing if it weren’t so fucking pathetic.
It’s like looking at or listening too Paris Hilton; Sully, le Coulter Borgia; you just have to ask yourself:
What good are they, I mean, how useless is truly useless?
Re: Cheney’s alleged sexual attractiveness, wouldn’t thoughts like, “Gee, I’m making it with a murderous fascist who’ll probably be tried for war crimes” make the whole thing too sordid even for the likes of Andrew Sullivan?
AS is as embarrassing in his own way (faux-sincere, “heartfelt”) as any of the other Repub trash-talkers. He’s just opportunistic enough to realize the winds have shifted and he better get repositioned fast.
Whoa. TRex I understand the urge to open up a can of whup-ass on closet case Log Cabin Republicans, but Sully is NOT one of them. He is out, and he is not an American citizen, so he cannot register with any political party. He puts conservatism before party, and he has supported Deocrats, Republicans, and Independents. I completely disagree with his support of the Iraq war when it was launched, but what I like about him is that he has the ability to stay rational and respectful when it comes to engaging those who disagree with him. I can’t EVER recall him questioning the patriotism of dissenters, or demonizing pacifists – ridiculing, yes, demonizing, no. Back up those assertions with quotes, if you will. I think you and Jane (in her knee-jerk defense of you) have lowered yourselves by getting so personal in your attack on him, resorting to cheap shots and dime-store psychoanalyzing. Disagree wih him on the merit of his arguments, but don’t undermine the credit you have earned on this blog with the good work done up until now. There IS a way to be bitchy/catty/funny/snarky/insightful/ascerbic all at the same time but this post is not it. Even if you think your “opponents” have crossed the line when it comes to war, civil rights, torture, ethics and so forth, uphold the standards you supposedly represent and treat them with respect, even if you think they don’t deserve it. Otherwise you become just like them. Ugly.
TRex, fascinating and brilliant take on the cause and effect of fascism. Don’t forget in being brought up in religion, any religion and you are trying to live by the Holy Bible…you are taught, wives obey your husband, slaves obey your master, spare the rod and spoil the child. The last chapter of Proverbs, I think it is, tells about the virtuous woman who is like working 3 full time jobs and her husband is down at the gate bragging about her. Doesn’t say that he works, just brags about the wife. Written long ago by a republican, if you ask me. They want women subjugated and slaves to this day.Nothing seems to change. The slaves in our country were taught that slaves obey your master shit. I wouldn’t hit my dog because I know how damaging it is to one’s spirit. Wives obeying the husband …well …that mentality has sure led us to the mess we are in as a country. We need minorities in power for change!
nicemonster says;
There’s nothin rational or respectful about The Creature From the Blog Lagoon. That you “can’t EVER recall him questioning the patriotism of dissenters, or demonizing pacifists” is proof positive of denial, dear.
Get help.
demit @
329
Exactly. Listening to some of the people here dripping with contempt for Sullivan, who is one of the most intelligent, thoughtful and intellectually honest political bloggers working today, really is sad. FDL is supposed to be better than that, period. I’m particularly appalled by the guy who late last night called him a “neocon faggot,” without anyone stepping in to slap that comment down. First off, anyone reads Sullivan knows that he isn’t a neocon at all. I’ll let the second epithet speak for itself.
This has not been FDL’s finest moment, to say the least.
No, it’s not the “concern troll” idea but that you would even think that someone who disagreed with you was one.
I don’t come here very often for much the same reason.
Oh, noes! I am a concern troll!
demit @
329
I am not a concern troll, but I have to agree.
DemfromCT had a brilliant post on The Last Hurrah a couple of days ago. In part:
I understand anger at those who have somehow stood in our way in the past.
I understand not being able to trust them when they come around, saying they have had a change of heart.
I understand demanding “proof” (whatever that might be — and for each of us it will be different, and that difference needs our respect) that their conversion is real. Even demanding that the more egregious the offense, the more proof is required. This is not unreasonable.
I also understand the anger that comes up when someone doesn’t honor my need for what may seem like an unreasonable proof.
However, there IS a way to juggle all these balls: to satisfy that part of us which needs the proof, to keep from being fooled by those who are not sincere, at the same time not shutting down our hearts. “Humility. Grace. Humanity…are the hallmarks that citizens of the world carry forward.”
That could be us, folks. Otherwise I think there is little difference between “us” and “them”.
David Ehrenstein @
359
There’s nothin rational or respectful about The Creature From the Blog Lagoon. That you “can’t EVER recall him questioning the patriotism of dissenters, or demonizing pacifists” is proof positive of denial, dear.
Get help.
I will cop to being uninformed, if you have something to say that will enlighten me. I certainly don’t tend towards denial. But an oblique reference to an old photograph, and then a patronizing comment doesn’t accomplish a whole lot.
My grandmother had the sweetest southern accent and charm around, yet she was a hateful, bigoted person. Andrew Sullivan is able to keep a respectful tone most of the time, which is a talent. But what he’s said about liberals, Al Gore, Dean, Noam Chomsky (whom Sullivan really HATES), Paul Krugman (hates just a little) and a host of people whose opinion he does not share has not been respectful, These are people who have not committed any crimes, have not advocated for the harm of others, and yet what they say gets him to take his kid gloves off almost every time. Meanwhile, back at Ranch Conservative, he fawns over inept, cruel, law-breaking jerks.
There is little grace in that regard.
Surfer @362:
WTF? “Little difference between us and them”? Yeah, right. The problem is, when you are dealing with people who have no conscience and unchecked power as their mantra, taking the moral high ground of “humility, grace, humanity”, adopting the christian approach of turning the other cheek, the result tends to be when your eyes are slightly averted in the cheek-turning motion, the “them” you refer to have already pulled out a long knife and jammed it up under your ribs.
I hope you enjoy your kool-aid after your yoga class today.
Hmm.
I saw Sully on C-SPAN this weekend, no idea when the interview was filmed.
I’ve never read him, am only recently aware of who he is – ie, an openly gay British conservative who has seemingly taken a left turn in his life.
My take on him from C-SPAN only: he is a wistful, thoughtful person on a very public personal journey from there to here. He’d probably be the smartest one on the block and we would might even be friends if he lived in my neighborhood.
I think TRex has a secret crush on him and wants to take care of him on his journey.
DennisofVenice @ 365
Hi Dennis! Sounds like you might agree with Bush’s pre-emptive strike theory?
dead last @
11
I think it’s called Naziism. All peas in a pod, unquestioning faith in your masters. That’s all that’s needed.
I think TRex has a secret crush on him and wants to take care of him on his journey.
EW!
Bite your tongue!
DennisofVenice, what on earth are you on about?
surfer, in his comment at 362 referring to “us” and “them”, was pointing out that we don’t have to get down in the mud in order to counter our ideological foes. (And “You like the taste of boot,” “You hate your Mother” and “Whichever side is on top” are all quotes in a post that is slick with mud.) How can you revile your enemy in part for his techniques then be so eager to adopt them? Then rationalize becoming like them as necessary for defense? Echoes of the Bush administration on torture, there!
Plus, we are talking about a writer and commentator, for heaven’s sake. How would employing civility in discussing him result in a long knife being jammed up under your ribs? How would that work, exactly?
I swear, sometimes people get so enthusiastic penning their colorful imagery they forget to make sense with it.
While I do not agree with everything Andrew Sullivan says, he is at least intellectually honest. I was also impressed that he is able to retract his previous positions after re-evaluating them from new perspectives.
I watched his interview on C-SPAN and while I am a life long democrat, I was engaged with what he had to say. I was impressed with the vulnerabilities he revealed about himself and his forthright commentary on the Bush Administration. Andrew Sullivan may be flawed, but who among us is not?
I think I’ll even buy his new book to support him and his ideas.
Mommybrain @ 366
AHa! (Light bulbs going off) I think you may be onto something, Mommybrain! There was a certain, ah, undercurrent? in our beloved T-Rex’s roar this morning, wasn’t there…
Every portrait that is painted with feeling is a portrait of the artist, not of the sitter.
– Oscar Wilde
Not to be confused with the above “Turtle” and I love Wilde:
Oscar Wilde
From Sullivan’s latest interview in Salon:
“I have no sympathy either for the Michael Moore left, and I think that could lose the Democrats a lot of potential allies and supporters.”
Maybe Sullivan should’ve listened a little more carefully those he still insults and demonizes. He certainly shows no humility in that respect in the Salon interview.
I thought the whole idea of being on the wrong side of history was that you get to become irrelevant once your argument goes belly up. Conversely, the folks who are proven right are supposed to get the “soap box” for a while. Seems not to be the case these days with the mighty Wurlitzer.
In any case, right now in my little circle, I don’t give a shit about what Sullivan has to say. T-Rex’s hilarious post aside, this guy EVEN worth the bandwidth.
I remember that Andrew Sullivan didn’t just support the Bush Failed policies. He vilified, and continues to vilify (recent examples; Chomsky, Fiske, Moore) people who disagreed with him. The People who were RIGHT in the first place. I remember him being rough on some of Scott Ritter’s statements about the war. Haven’t heard much from Scott in the mass media lately. Guess thats just new millenium journalism’s way of rewarding the people whom history has proven to be RIGHT.
Here’s a novel Idea. (present company excluded) More airtime, column inches, bandwidth, whatever going to the people who were RIGHT in the first place.
Oh, and…
Sullivan isn’t rehabilitated. He’s just triangulating to stay relevant. And employed. I saw him on Mahr a few months ago, and for no logical reason, he launched into a spittle soaked rant against Chomsky. Afterward the credits rolled and he stood chatting, his back to the camera, massaging his buttocks. Perhaps waiting for his belly to be scratched.