thanks fdl friends for once again highlighting and working on such a critical issue. Really amazing that with all the talk going on there is so little that involves the building we need to do with labor. May this be a positive beginning. robert greenwald

You are a big part of that, Robert. Thanks so much for introducing people to Andy and his book in LA, it’s a message that needs to be spread.

It such a statement were forthcoming, it could then be endorsed by all elements of the Dem party, including the critical labor leaders like Andy Stern.

btw — I assume you know about what Arianna is doing. Need guidance.

What is needed is a grander vision, pushed by a grander coalition that says, for beginners, that government has a responsibility not merely to promote economic prosperity at the macro level, but more important to collect revenues and redistribute wealth in various forms, including programs that enhance economic security — and health, and child care, and public education, etc. Within that framework, it’s possible for unions to be effective in enforcing and implementing the paradigm — they become economic security service providers, not simply enemies of management. But all of us have to create the paradigm. The election is partly about that. It also helps not to be waging wars in countries that didn’t attack us, so that we have $8 billion more a month to fund things that are more important here.

I think this is a very powerful notion, scarecrow. In Rick Perlstein’s book he talks about how the entire conservative movement was built around opposition to the New Deal, which is essentially founded on the notion of the redistribution of wealth. Fundamentally that is what we are fighting, no matter what the current face of it is. And unions, being a powerful mechanism for that principle, have always come under direct fire from those vehemently opposed to it.

Thanks again,it’s been great.

The effect of these and other actions of the last 12 years is a systematic war on economic security. If government is too corrupt and indebted to support security programs, and unions are too weak, and H&S regulators are picked based on their hostility to the public interest principles of supporting security, then there is no protection left other than through private wealth — but the mechanism are rigged to ensure only a relative few obtain that wealth. This is a recipe for class warfare, and it has to be reversed.

To approach this set of interconnected problems as though it were a “union” problem, or an “organizing” problem is placing an unfair and impossible burden on the “labor movement.” Andy can’t solve this by himself, no matter how many ideas he tries. What is needed is a grander vision, pushed by a grander coalition that says, for beginners, that government has a responsibility not merely to promote economic prosperity at the macro level, but more important to collect revenues and redistribute wealth in various forms, including programs that enhance economic security — and health, and child care, and public education, etc. Within that framework, it’s possible for unions to be effective in enforcing and implementing the paradigm — they become economic security service providers, not simply enemies of management. But all of us have to create the paradigm. The election is partly about that. It also helps not to be waging wars in countries that didn’t attack us, so that we have $8 billion more a month to fund things that are more important here.

Sorry to ramble, but I think the discussion today, and the efforts by Jane to reach out via Jordan and Andy are incredibly important in helping us all see how these things are connected and require us to work together.

Heir of Patriots: True. Good points.

Twisted Martini: I hate to put you off, but that’s one of the exact themes that Andy spends a lot of time on in his book. Not only has he been able to organize workers while respecting the competitive pressures of the industry’s he’s trying to organize, but he’s also one some friends among management who see that their business are running better with the union than without.

I’ve known plenty of white collar workers who have been screwed. Unless someone reaches out to educate and organize them, and change the perception of unions, I don’t see those people starting unions on their own.

Jordan Barab @ 66

Don’t restrictions on foreign cars in union parking lots turn a lot of people off who are mainly concerned with price and quality?

Yes. Unfortunately, you can’t expect people to buy an inferior product just because it’s American made. On the other hand, is it too much to ask for people to pay a bit more to avoid product made in foreign sweat shops? An eternal problem…

American made doesn’t have to be inferior quality. Hondas are made in Ohio. Toyotas are made in Indiana and Kentucky. Nissans and Infinitis are made in Tennessee. BMWs are made in South Carolina.

My point is that unions shouldn’t take Bush’s foreign policy example on how to win friends and influence people. If someone (a non-union political activist) is willing to work with you on a goal (e.g. getting candidates elected), why not play nice?

Ayn Rand. Whew!