Ezra has some thoughts on Barack Obama:
OK Democrats, deep breath. Despite Obama's undeniable magnetism and star power, he's not your guy. Not yet.
For now, Obama is a cipher, an easy repository for the hopes and dreams of liberals everywhere. He had the good fortune to run his first statewide (and nationally noticed) election against Chicago investment banker Jack Ryan, who dropped out because of a sex scandal, and then the brilliant performance artist (c'mon — you don't really believe that guy's serious, do you?) Alan Keyes. It's easy to focus on lofty ideals and shining rhetoric if you don't have an opponent and need never enter the muck of a competitive campaign.
But if Obama avoided being battle-tested in 2004 by the grace of God, it's his own timidity that has kept his name clean since.
Given his national profile and formidable political talents, he could have been a potent spokesman for Democratic causes in the Senate. Instead, he has refused to expend his political or personal capital on a single controversial issue, preferring to offer anodyne pieces of legislation and sign on to the popular efforts of others.
The closest he came to a showdown was when he sought to ignore John McCain's bipartisan group and decided instead to draft strong new ethics rules for the Senate. McCain flew into a public rage, and Obama backed down; no powerful bill was ever passed.
Indeed, Obama is that oddest of all creatures: a leader who's never led. There are no courageous, lonely crusades to his name, or supremely unlikely electoral battles beneath his belt. He won election running basically unopposed, and then refused to open himself to attack by making a controversial but correct issue his own.
Is that evidence of youth, or timidity? Does he hold no unpopular opinions, or does he simply avoid conflict? How would he react to fusillades launched by able opponents?
For now, nobody knows. But given the smear campaign launched against every recent Democratic nominee, grace and strength under fire should be proven qualities before Democrats even consider a potential candidate.
There are, to be sure, ways Obama could prove his mettle, not to mention his priorities. He could, say, make universal healthcare coverage his public obsession or demand an end to the war in Iraq. He could fight for full public financing of all campaigns, or seek a national living wage.
But until then, if Obama gleams, Democrats have no way of knowing if it's because he's truly an action hero or because he's refused to step out of his packaging. And until that question is answered, the hardened fighters they know are preferable to the attractive cipher they don't.
Obama is charismatic and a powerful speaker, and Jeebus knows the Democrats are in dire need of those. But despite the eagerness of many to place their hopes for the future in him, he has done little to merit it beyond earning high marks for presentation — he has a tendency to regularly repeat GOP talking points in a way that damage the party, an unfortunate quality in someone who has hopes of leading it.
It would be nice to see Obama take on a tough issue and do battle over it, maybe show his willingness to spend some of the good will he has accrued on something important, something that wasn't "safe," something that would force him out of the Republican comfort zone — if only to see what he's made of.
The jury is definitely still out.
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Ned!
curses, foiled again!
Who on earth is talking about Obama ‘08? As far as I can tell, he’s spent the last year opining on how awful the Democrats are, and how much more virtuous he is than the rest of us.
If I want that kind of leader, I’d vote for Joe Lieberman.
Obama – so much potential, so little substance.
Fitz! (never too late)
Obama ram unopposed in IL because no intelligent politician wanted to run against him. They knew they would lose, and didn’t want that stigma attached to them. Opponent Jack Ryan abused his wife, Geri. Opponent Alan Keyes was a whacko from Maryland.
Jane!
Thank you!!! It’s time for Obama to live up to his parents and to his party.
NOW. Get thee to CT and to Ned, Barak.
Obama needs to do some serious reflection on Dr. MLKing Jr. He might hang out with Russ Feingold and Howard Dean for a while as well…
Jane,
I have been reading this blog for more than six months, although this is the first time I ever posted –
I cannot believe that with all going on in the world, like Iraq and school shootings and the election and Madonna’s new baby that you would spend anytime bashing a true Democrat who has been there for all of us, well, sometimes. Perhaps.
Anyway, you really should write about other important things and ignore the fact that a bunch of our Democratic Senate and House leaders aren’t all that.
My bottom line: I want a fighter. After six years of relentless republican outrages, I want a fighter. Any Democrat who mewls about the need for bipartisanship is listening to some soul-less, Bob “0-and-8″ Shrum marketing drone.
I think he has potential, but ye gods, not for 08. That’s “knight in shining armor” thinking. The only “rescue” which will take is one engineered by the roots.
Tommy Lee Jones in ‘08.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Lee_Jones
Angie @ 7: Live up to his parents? His father abandoned the family. His mother had serious emotional problems. You kidding?
Norad scrambled. What the hell. This story STINKS like Elephant dung people.
Francoise @ 9:
Jane and Christy will write about whatever they want, because it’s their blog.
If you want other subjects covered, you might possibly want to start your own blog where you can write about the topics you think are Most Important Right Now.
I have spoken with Obama and think he has real potential. It is painful to see him holding back when we think he might make a difference in the current situation.
All I can say is that he is in this for the long haul and is building his career carefully. Important to read his book, and learn about his father, an African prince who defied the government on corruption. The government fought back and essentially ruined him. So the son learns: public service is his obligation*, and be careful provoking the bad guys.
He is a good listener, and a quick study, a charismatic presence and an A plus speaker. We need him. Let’s not demonize him for failing to do what many more senior Democrats are also failing to do. Nevertheless it’s useful for us to speak boldly about what we want and hope from him.
*public service = his obligation…he doesn’t have to do this, lots of other things he might be engaged in. He is a highly talented, dedicated individual. Let’s keep him accountable, but not drive him from office.
Most definitely out. Also what is 6 years in the senate going to do to him. Those years of compromising and votes that have to be defended are hard on all senators when trying to go national.
These are very good points by Ezra and Jane.
I also know Barack Obama. I concur with Egregious @ 16
Barack was less than inspired at the “torture” bill hearings. His office said he was “studying” the issue up until that morning. I told them that if he was a no-show that his next job would be selling car insurance. In his address, he did not use the word “Constitution” and he was very much a LAWYER that he really is. In what would have been the perfect platform for a swing-for-the-fence piece of oratory, he had a Barney Fife moment.
Obama certainly seems to love and use his parents and his unique heritage as an example, karen allen.
If he does that, I am certainly not going to bash them.
francoise,
We have no idea what kind of democrat he is yet.
Jane,
You can hold anyone’s foot to the fire you want.
Obama, form over substance. Who needs more of that?
Sheesh you guys — francoise @ 9 is a fake concern troll. Perfect for Obama.
I agree with Egregious — Obama has potential, but I fear he fell in with the Hillary crowd too quickly — he needs to cut the apron strings there. His wife is wicked smaht as well — Harvard Law Grad who participated in the Legal Aid Bureau (civil poverty law clinic). She, at least, is the real deal.
Plane hit a building in NYC.
I think we are asking an awful lot of a first term Senator. What about Democrats who have been there for much longer? Lieberman excluded, are they feeling our pointed wrath? Maybe we are so in need of a hero that we are trying to promote Obama before he is ready.
umm, I thought francoise’s comment was intended satirically.
Lots of pols are asked to give commencement speeches, and I’ve started collecting them to get a sense for the different speakers, and also for the “era” in which they are given.
Obama gave the May 2006 commencement address to the Southern Illinois University School of Medicine. Notably, and in contrast to many such speeches, it was focused on the graduates, not the speaker: “And so today I ask you to be more than just practitioners of medicine; I ask you to be advocates for medicine. I ask you to be advocates for a health care system that is fair, that is just, and that provides every single American with the best your profession has to offer.”
I’ve got questions about Obama, but I also trust the late Senator Paul Simon. Simon knew Obama, and was about to endorse him for the Democratic primary when Simon suddenly died. His daughter later made her dad’s endorsement public, and part of the reason Obama won his hotly contested primary was that endorsement.
Barak defending his vote in the WaPo
against the Military Commissions Act, that FDL’s knuckledragger so aptly nicknamed the
Who Would Jesus fuck with a Mop Handle Act.imm,
whew, thought I was the only one with a working satire sensor there for a moment.
Obama chooses to fight good, winnable battles, which unfortunately , at this time tend to be irrelevant.
Now is not the time for reasoned, well-mannered progressives. The Constitution is under attack, hundreds of thousands are dead as a result of our visionary foreign policy, and economic stratification grows more divisive daily.
Obama is my Senator. I have visited his offices, talked with his staff and receive his email and podcasts. He is a good man, but not the right man for these times.
In my estimation he is trying to balance his Senatorial responsibilities against Presidential aspirations, and will ultimately fail at both.
It was a very “small” plane.
This was an accident.
John Casper @ 30
Might even have been a hellicopter….
Yoo-hoo, neurophius, was dat you?
immanentize @ 22
Ya I kinda thot Madonna’s baby gave it away…good one.
egregious @ 24
I agree. I like what I’ve seen so far, but I keep thinking that people are so desperate for someone inspiring at the top of the ticket that they have forgotten that he needs to earn his chops.
The Rashomon effect. Some people are swearing they saw a chopper and other people saw a fixed wing craft.
Well Jane,I agree.
I find Senator Obama very intelligent, well spoken and surely inspiring. I have hopes for his future as a leader,[and therefore hope for our future, if for nothing else, as Democrats]. My gut feeling about him though, is that he needs more experience in the Senate and has lessons to learn about true leadership.
It’s confirmed as a small plane. I work in a Midtown high rise and can see it from reception. Although it seems like an accident lots of us were worried that it was the beginning of something bigger.
Kinda want to go home
EPU’d. Boo. A little vaccination, to remind people of 9/11! North Korea nukes! 9/11! Congressional pedophiles—oops. 9/11! or just a hideous accident…
egregious @ 133
John Casper @
27
He passed that litmus test, at least. I enjoyed his autobiography, and I think he has potential because of his unusual background. Not in 08. 2012 perhaps.
Exactamundo. The cipher analogy is what I’ve always thought. Barak talks pretty, but what has he done. We project our hopes and dreams onto him and he does the bare minimum by paying lip service to them.
Remember the great white hope Mario Cuomo? He was also a nice orator, just didn’t get much done.
Why do people like this guy so much? I mean, he cuts a more dashing figure than Henry Waxman but hasn’t done as much.
From Raw Story:
“I always felt safe when I was there,” Nguyen said. “But then again, I was a Democratic page.”
On the anti-Barak side.
He.Has.Got.To.Stop.Bashing.Democrats.
He is often almost as bad as Lieberman in this way — he is always publically handwringing about how Democrats need to do this or that and how poorly they connect witth real people. STOP IT!
Also, he has fallen into the very bad habit of suggesting what is needed is process, rather than suggesting an idea — like:
“Democrats need to come up with a credible plan for success in Iraq” rather than, “This is my plan for success in Iraq….”
See how the first one says nothing except to support the Republican talking point of Democratic inaction?
is it that obama seems to want to be a leader – but refuses to lead?… or is it that we are looking for leaders and want him to be one – even though he shows no signs of being one?
i think it’s the latter… but, whichever – i think it is the disconnect between what is desired and what is real that is the source of my disappointment. it is sad to see someone of his talents not use them to defend people who don’t have his position and ability…. defending himself (for example, as john casper notes, his vote against the military commissions act) is not the same thing as defending the accused/tortured/disappeared.
pooch @
37
I think you should go home. Absolutely. Even if it’s an accident. Even if it means nothing. Think about all the people in the second tower who didn’t go home.
Don’t start a panic. Just quietly gather up your things and say, “I’ll be back in a bit.”
And go get a nice coffee outside somewhere and enjoy this lovely afternoon.
Speaking only for myself, my jury vote is ready.
Absent significant new developments, I would argue very strongly against the guy, with vigor.
I trust no one who refuses to fight.
I agree with those who are suspicious. IIRC Barak counts Lieberman as one of his great mentors. That says it all.
Obama is my senator. My jury is in – Obama is out.
He has no spine. None. Not one single vertebrae. He’s timid. He’s a follower and not a leader. His only redeeming characteristic is that he’s willing to vote with the Democrats when they actually take a stand.
I yearn for the day Obama resigns from office or is voted out.
Senator Durbin, while not a firebrand speaker, at least tries to lead.
Too bad NORAD didn’t respond the first time. They thought what they were seeing on their screens were the MULTIPLE simulations planned for that day. Just a coincidence I’m sure. I’m not asking people to be a true believer, just to consider the possibility.
John Casper @ 27
Yes, that was a good and courageous vote. I can recall another Senator that did not vote the same way, and I just wrote a reminder at KOS of Lieberman’s vote as shielding Bush from accountability for being lawless.
But I think Jane is asking, “if this is not the time to show leadership, than when is it?” I expect every Democrat, aspiring leader or not, to step up their games in the next month — these are the final playoffs, and I want the best they have — I expect those who want us to see them as future leaders, to put themselves out there and take some risks for the party. Will Obama go to Connecticut for Ned Lamont?
IF Mr. Obama needs experience as a Senator and to appear a moderate in these times, then our political system is wrecked beyond repair.
Mr. Smith, please go to Washington.
Pooch, sorry, I see that there’s a light rain falling in New York City, so maybe a coffee in Central Park isn’t the best idea. It’s only an hour until 5:00pm. Just say you’re making an early day of it.
I am thinking this is a great excuse to bail out of work early.
“Shock and awe” doesn’t work once people’s adrenaline response adapts to elevated fear levels. The chickenhawks all avoided war, and they know they’d be scared shitless (as would I) with bombs going off around them, so they assume everyone would. Well, if you live with elevated threats, real or rhetorical, you get inured to it all. That’s why it doesn’t work in the middle east, and that’s why it aint working anymore in the US.
another senator i’m looking to for to step up… senator kerry is on ed shultz now (thank’s revdeb for the heads up)
I figured when this broke, Chimpy made like the Roadrunner to Air Force 1. He’s probably circling Nebraska.
Is Cheney installed in his undisclosed location?
Sheez
Pryor loves Lieberman – Had enough
Obama loves Hillary – It’s not enough
Will Obama go to Connecticut for Ned Lamont?
You’re absolutely right scarecrow. IMO, with Sharpton’s letter to Liebermann yesterday in the NYObservor, it’s time for Barak to campaign with Ned in CT.
The code for an issue that African Americans want, is universal health care. Ned’s down for it, Joe isn’t.
I had hopes for Obama, but he’s proved to be entiredly too Liebermanesque for me.
I really respect Dick Durbin, although I wish to this day that he had not retracted his perfectly correct comparison of the boosh regime to a certain other regime…
Durbin, Leahy, Harkin, Dorgan, Feingold, Kennedy are my heroes in the Senate. Paul Wellstone, too– may he and his ladies RIP.
Time for Obama to earn the tears of joy I shed during his speech at the convention.
It’s true, if Obama made a real effort to get behind Ned in a visible way, unequivocally, that would matter, and invite some reconsideration of his standing as a Democrat.
I enjoy a good sales pitch, but I expect delivery. This current mess is a perfect example of that, all hat and no cattle. Obama needs a little seasoning and some unflinching principles defended with sharp elbows to find out where he is really coming from.
egregious @
16
Hear, hear. I have never had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Obama, but my patented superpowered Integrity Radar is making all the right beeping sounds.
Experience and time in Congress is a classic double-edged sword: one may become seasoned as the years go by and the done deals mount up, but I believe one also becomes a bit jaded; moreover, the larger the body of legislation on which one has voted, the greater the chance that some of it will be second-guessed–and often harshly criticized–by media and opponents, if not also one’s constituents. And the longer one’s time in public service, the greater one’s chances of becoming embroiled in something unsavory (forgive the cooking metaphor).
Marry in haste, repent in leisure?
Someday, I fear, we will regret how eagerly we embraced Tester, Webb, Casey and Obama. They are going to be tough nuts to persuade, maybe a bit too conservative or reticent. That is not to say they are not perfectly good candidates. It’s just that I fear we can’t count on them in some of the more important votes like Supreme Court nominees or big business legislation.
Pach 45 — If I had to vote right now I’d say the same but I’m willing to go to re-education camp.
could someome remind me please how obama voted on the supreme court hearings
HeirofPatriots @
47
Durbin and Obama are my senators as well. I had high (and in retrospect, unrealistic) hopes for Obama at the outset, but completely agree that he has been far too willing to undermine Democratic positions. I’d be curious if those of you who know him think his timorousness may be partly a result of having hit the big time so suddenly, with no chance to develop his positions out of the limelight. His work in the General Assembly didn’t make much of an impression here in reddish central Illinois. (I work with people who voted for Keyes. I try not to think about it.)
It will be instructive to see how he responds if control of the Senate flips. If he keeps up the handwringing, I’ll be done.
As HeirofPatriots notes, Durbin has been more than reliable, although admittedly not as soundbite-endowed as Obama.
BQ @ 25
ummm, if so, then it was very weak satire …
btw david roth will be here at two thirty to chat about his race against Mary Bono, he’s lots of fun so stop by and say hi.
And I feel as though all y’all that have Dick Durbin and Barack Obama as their Senators are far more lucky than me..
I have Gregg and Sununu.
wretched and retch producing…
and I’ve got Charlie the Wide Mouth Bass, too!
Go Hodes!
Yankee Pitcher, Cory Lidle was possibly on the plane (owner/pilot). Unconfirmed CNN…
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5806
He’s young. He has mad oratory skillz. He has potential. He has a good heart. He has no desire to drown or be held under in the cesspool of Congress by these most unworthy of men.
He had the misfortune to come of political age in the most poisonous time in our memory and he’s smart enough to lay low for now. There’s no rhyme and certainly little reason to our national discourse these days; good men like he appears to be are crazy to set themselves up like little ducks-in-a-row, and yet there he is, fire banked.
I say you’re right, the jury’s not in
jane hamsher @
67
Gotta go out for a bit. Be sure to ask him how he manages not to burst into uncontrollable laughter whenever he says, “my opponent….” :)
I just received an email today from my state’s Democratic party inviting me to a rally starring Obama.
I can think of better things to do with my time than attend a rally with Obama and Debbie Stabenow (who inexplicably voted FOR the torture bill). I’d rather floss my cat.
He is still a rookie. He jumped from AA to the majors too quick. Needs more seasoning. And learn to hit a curve ball. And stay in the box when he sees a high hard one under his chin. To put it in baseball terms.
I prefer to wait and see.
Why is Obama’s approval rating so closely tied to whether he goes to campaign for Lamont? Talk about a litmus test…
The only Senator whose approval rating should be based on his support of Lamont is Lieberman.
NYC, as I said in last thread this is my view from my balcony, our fear has it’s reality, when something awful has happened it is natural to react with fear. At the moment it is not important if accident or hostility, it’s the feeling in your gut not only of what has happened but what could happen as we now know can. It’s not an over reaction when you have to seek your loved ones to insure they are OK. The msm and the “devils” party will not hesitate to manipulate and misuse our natural reaction. It is because of experiences here that there is not our over reaction but it is the national manipulation that keeps on herding the blind that eats me mad. No more Bush never again.
I have no confidence that Barak Obama will lead us out of this.
LandOfTheFree @ 72
Don’t let Debbie near your cat. She sounds like a declaw kind of gal.
NormalLiberal, for me Obama’s future behavior when/if the Senate flips or the House is retaken won’t change my opinion.
A person’s character is shown by how they act under trying times. Obama’s refusal to take positions on any issues related to the Bush assault against the Constitution, the Iraq war, or anything of importance until he thinks its safe says it all. I wouldn’t want to be in a foxhole with Obama!
Angie at 1:43 pm, Durbin is a great senator. Obama at least is a “Dem”. So, in that, you’re right, we’re lucky in Illinois.
Cozumel @ 69
What is boosh saying now, “wow, that’s one bad pitcher?”
good grief. RIP to all who perished and suffered.
Give Obama a break! He is a freshman senator, for gawd’s sake. The tradition, sorry to say, is if you want to be effective later you have to lay low in the first two years of your term. Otherwise, the old men of the Senate think you’re a camera hog and freeze you out. To be sure, some have not — Hubert Humphrey, for example, in 1948 and Wellstone in his second year of the first term. They both paid for it later. Most new senators abide by the custom, learn the rules and stay in their place for a decebnt time, including John F. Kennedy (still a freshman senator in 1960 with nothing to show for it).
angie @ 78
Confirmed, AP
angie @ 78
Look like it was Lidle and an instructor -
Transcription is indeed “hard work”, so I’m reposting this…
The “war on people of faith” in Ohio
Nobody could have imagined that a brand new pilot and seasoned pitcher could have flown his airplane into our buildings.
jeebus.
RIP.
OK. I have had real reservations about Obama, and Ezra just put them into words. I love the potential, but I don’t see the “battle-hardened” capability yet.
If Egregious (#16 above) is right that he is building his career carefully, then more power to him – in more ways than one. I think. He is responsible for preparing himself for what he will do, and my wants and hopes should not interefer with that. I’ve been thrown into situations before I was ready, and mucked them up rather well. If he is aiming for the Presidency he doesn’t have the luxury of that kind of gamble. Fine.
But before I commit to him, I want to see him take on some real risks and face real opponents. At the moment I don’t see another Democrat on the Horizon like him, so let’s see where he goes.
Mommybrain @ 70
I thought his abilities and potential suggested he had the guts to confront our poisonous political atmosphere and its adherents. The willingness to lay low, however smart with respect to his own ambitions, is not what I had expected. I think the jury’s still out. But my vote is conditional on a demonstrated ability and willingness to consistently uphold our principles. As others have pointed out, Obama’s approach to date has been too Liebermanlike for comfort.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 76
Or waterboard my cat.
I’m so incredibly angry with her vote on the torture bill (not to mention a few other votes). She has no excuse for selling out the constitution, international law, common decency, and fundamental human rights. She’s 15 percent or so up in the polls against her challenger (though I would consider it to be the ultimate in repulsive behavior for a Senator to vote for the torture bill just to keep a few votes).
At least Obama voted against it.
late to the party and don’t know if it has been said yet.
I’ve bee watching him since before primary night when he pulled it off. When vacationing in Chi, we went and volunteered some time and met him. The other volunteers were sold on him. I thought, great!
His speech at the Dem convention was great.
Since then . . . . . don’t know where he’s been.
In contrast, I still remember Paul Wellstone’s “maiden” speech in Jan. of 1991 when they were debating the war. He had just taken office and he stood out head and shoulders for a courageous anti-war stand.
I’m still watching Obama, still hoping for something, but he has dropped several notches in the past 2 years. I agree that he has often said things disparaging of dems. I hated what he said about dems having to learn “God talk.” That’s not what I expect our dem leaders to get caught in the muck of. I want them to speak out loudly and proudly about:
Justice
Peace
Rule of Law
Equal Opportunity
Health Care for all
Education
Justice
Peace
I want them to make unpopular votes when it is the right thing to do because it is the right thing to do.
Yankees just obtained Lidle from the Phillies this year.
at least O’Bamagh has a lock on the Irish vote.
Olbermann on Tweety right now taking about Lidle!
angie @
58
ditto ditto.
So far, Obama has seemed like a lightweight. Now, that may be because of a conscious choice to be a back-bencher now, and build a portfolio over time. Remember, his first comment about his victory was that he had the least seniority in the Senate. I wouldn’t worry about Obama as a presidential candidate in ‘08. Maybe a vice-presidential candidate, who didn’t run for president in the primary. But more likely a candidate in ‘12, if a Republican wins in ‘08. If he’s as good as advertised, it will be even clearer in 6 years.
Renee in Ohio,
Thanks for attending and transcribing. I read the first installment – have to ask if anyone inquired of the right reverend whether persuasion would ever have worked or whether he would have just accused them of violating his First Amendment rights from jump. (In the meantime running out the clock so that any intervention wouldn’t make a difference this election cycle.)
I thought it awful of him to passive-aggressively shame the other minister for not “speaking to him privately” rather than going all legal on him. What a crock.
punaise @
89
Well, at least the Black-Irish vote.
-GSD
Olbermann reporting that Mets Cardinals game has been canceled tonite due to inclement weather.
John Casper @
56
Very true about the universal health care.
And it needs to happen soon. I noticed, during the time I worked in a hospital in Ohio, that black patients came in for treatment at later stages of serious diseases and died earlier than white patients.
I think all we’ve seen so far is a young and inexperienced senator just starting out. He’s still learning. He’s made some decisions I don’t agree with, sure, but I think he’s just now starting to come into his own. I think a presidental run is way too soon in his growth. Right now, he’d be serving the party better by campaigning for his democratic brothers and sisters.
Mommybrain @
70
Hear hear. I’m not close to writing him off.
Bullshit. Obama has, if nothing else, campaigned for TONS of progressive candidates and raised a LOT of money.
Margot @ 96
so do poor whites, hispanics, and everybody down the chain in America. It is disgraceful that anyone must choose between continued good health and a desperate and painful and lonely end.
Shocking.
OT: It’s not a long article, so this quote contains much of it:
There was no immediate confirmation Lidle was among the dead.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/…..Crash.html
From The New York Times article:
The weather was good, and this was a single-engine aircraft. VFR is the norm under such conditions, especially for inexperienced pilots. Under VFR, no flight plan must be filed, and no contact with Air Traffic Control is necessary as long as you’re not in restricted areas. Some of that may have changed recently, but I doubt it. I’m sure there are pilots here who can explain that stuff in detail.
The Lavender Letter.
The Republicans have a new “list” al la Joe McCarthy, but this one is contains all of the “suspected” gays in DC.
Time for more purges….Frankly they should use the Katherine Harris standard and purge anyone who isn’t “Christian” enough so that everyone can see just how tribal and narrow minded these religious bigots behave.
When did this nation descend into such a state of fanatical lunacy?
-GSD
HeirofPatriots @
77
I agree, although I can see how making the jump from the state senate to, you know, the real one, might have prompted some deference to the institutional expectations that others have cited in this discussion. I don’t have much use for all that Byrdian guff about the noble traditions of the Senate, but it may seem more compelling from the inside.
However, when it comes to the evisceration of habeas corpus, et. al., every single Democratic senator should have been screaming opposition from every available rooftop. Very few of them (and Durbin was one) responded to my satisfaction.
Renee in Ohio @ 83:
That sounds like an interesting get-together. Johnson sounds like he has a good grasp of the OT, but is missing something from the NT (not that that’s unusual for a literalist). I do wonder why he thinks the Bible should take precedence over laws. (I suspect he also thinks ‘In God We Trust’ has been on coins since Washington was president.)
While I agree that the jury is still out on Obama, that he has not had the proper seasoning yet, I think to diss him is a little premature, but typical. This is exactly what people mean when they say that Democrats eat their young. Instead, I wish people would say more about who they DO want to run. Personally, I’ve felt for a long time that the Repugs are the ones who chose Hillary, and she’s certainly not the answer to my dreams, especially since she decided to give away our civil rights by backing a bill to make flag burning illegal. Hasn’t she heard of freedom of expression? (Yeah, I know she was just trying to curry favor with conservatives, but really!!!) I keep going back to Al Gore’s speech on Martin Luther King Day at Constitution Hall. I also think that Global Warming will be a more important issue than any other as time goes on. Way more important than the war in Iraq, etc. I think he may be the best choice for someone to get us out of this mess. What do ya’ll think?
Cujo, Wolf Blitzer is speculating that the plane lost altitude very quickly.
Perhaps Barak will grow into “it”. Being a real stand-up Democrat I mean. Until then, are we thinking all style; very little substance?
> The tradition, sorry to say, is if
> you want to be effective later you
> have to lay low in the first two
> years of your term.
Too bad he doesn’t hew to that rule when he gives speeches _off_ the floor of the Senate. Particularly when those speeches incorporate the Radicals’ “some Democrats” talking points.
I had a lot of hope for the guy; I really did. My spouse still has an “Obama for President” bumper sticker. But he has turned out to be a triangulator. Possibly angling for the VP nomination on Hillary’s ticket? In any case, not someone I can support.
Cranky
NormalLiberal sez I thought his abilities and potential suggested he had the guts to confront our poisonous political atmosphere and its adherents. The willingness to lay low, however smart with respect to his own ambitions, is not what I had expected.
It’s not just his career. If Obama has no future in politics, then his constituents just might be served by a much worse senator. I’ve read some of his speeches and he’s saying mostly the right things. I can’t condemn him for not following my political views to the letter. He voted against Torture, that should count for something.
I understand the frustrations of everyone who wishes their elected leaders would speak the fuck up. Me, too, but I also see what happens to some of those who do and I don’t know what else can be expected of them, honestly. If all the good people stick their necks out and get them chopped off, who’s left?
Oh Shit
there’s more with links
If anyone sticks his or her neck out, we will rally behind them and we will win!
It is that serious, imho.
LandOfTheFree @ 86
Absolutely. She didn’t need it for her campaign, it would have passed anyway, all I can see is that it is either a big F-k U to humans anywhere, or a big Thank U for a nice KBR Kamp project in MI — BTW, anyone know if there is any substance to the Grayling rumours? Even at that, it would have gone through anyway. I do *not* get it.
I consider that her vote on this would make her liable for war crimes prosecution. I don’t think there is much future in Dem-bashing, esp now, but really. If it says it’s a Dem but acts like an Elephant, could it be a mole? Stabenkow’s vote on this is not a minor matter, it is *huge* and utterly gratuitous.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 108
I have to admit, yeah, to a degree. He’s such a brilliant orator, hands-down the best we have, and we need this desperately. I’m waiting for something to emerge from him that’s a bit more substantive, true, but we can’t discount his speechifying power because it’s over the top stunning and I hope this is just the beginning for him.
I hope.
David Roth — running for the CA-45 against Mary Bono — coming right up in Blue America. :)
Having flown small fixed-wing aircraft for some thirty years, at first glance this crash looks like an accident. Nothing more. With rapid loss of altitude, if true, mechanical problems come to mind. Pure conjecture though.
John Casper @ 2:25pm (#106)
From the NYT article:
If the witness’ stories prove reliable, it’s looking like some sort of mechanical failure. It might conceivably be that the pilot had some sort of inflight medical problem, but if the pilot was a young athlete this seems unlikely.
Of course, I’m no expert, and figuring out stuff like this is what they pay the NTSB for.
And he did vote against torture. *cripes, there was a farkin’ torture vote.
Anyone who voted for torture is dead to me. That’s it.
NormalLiberal @ 103
Agreed. Durbin and Leahy were good on this issue.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 2:26 pm (#107)
I’d agree with that statement, with the added comment that so far I’m not that impressed with some of the stylings, either.
New Blue America thread, gang — please drop by and give David Roth — candidate for the CA-45 — a great FDL welcome.
Obama went to Washington and promptly joined the club. He is sort of like Hamlet. He has the indecision but not the angst. At some point the potential has to be converted into action or else it’s just ego and wind.
When Obama first came on the political scene I thought highly of him. Now, after watching a few of his votes and his trashing of Dems on TV – he is not for me. Laying low is not what we need in these dire times. We need people who have a spine and are not afraid to speak their mind – period
angie @ 112
I wish I could believe that, Angie, but look what happened to Feingold. He called for censure of the President (for good cause! It seems to me it was the least Dems should do) but nobody would follow him down that road, to all the Dems that didn’t back him up’s great discredit.
Mommybrain @
110
If all the good people stick their necks out, maybe they have a better shot at stopping the ax.
Sorry, that’s a sloppy extension of the metaphor, but I think you know what I mean. We’ve tried going along to get along. It hasn’t worked. It’s time (well past) for Democrats to coalesce our cardinal principles, state them clearly, and advance them without equivocation or apology.
And in that context, I think voting against the use of torture is a pretty minimal threshold.
faithfull @ 99
email just received:
To be fair to Obama, I would like to point out that he voted against John Roberts. He also voted against cloture on Alito and against him again on the final vote on his nomination.
I think we all thought with his rhetorical talents that he would be a strong spokesman for our values when we had few such spokesmen or spokeswomen but he hasn’t been.
HotFlash @ 113
I don’t know anything about “the Grayling rumors” – enlighten me.
I’m still voting for Stabenow this fall (only because she’s much better than Bouchard, as she will at least sometimes vote with the Democratic party). I’m not actively campaigning for her, however. I’ll hand out her literature with Granholm and other Democratic candidates, but if pressed on my thoughts about her, I will simply say that she’s done a lot of work on preventing Canadian trash from coming to the state and to help address health care issues such as the escalating cost of prescription drugs. If someone asks me my opinion on her Torture Bill vote, I will tell them I’m opposed to it, and they’ll have to contact Stabenow for an explanation for her vote.
blah – I can’t seem to edit my own comment.
Adding to the last post, I’ll work my butt off for a true liberal candidate to replace Stabenow next election cycle.
Obama is not a real liberal, he just plays one on national tv. He’s a Joe Liebermanesque corporate Democrat. His stance on the war stinks as bad as Hilary’s
Hey gang — I’d appreciate it if everyone would stop by the Blue America chat and welcome David Roth. Thanks! Howie is very excited about his candidacy, and I’d love it if everyone could make him welcome to FDL.
Joe-Bama!:
We need a Ned Lamont in Illinois, and I’m ready to do media work for one for free, anything to show the Donkey party that this model of faux-progressive poll following do-nothings does not work.
so as not to drift OT upstairs, I’ll post this here from Salon.com:
I’m also a consituent of Obama and he defintely underwhelms. Sure, he talks the talk (sometimes). But he also sure seems to like reinforcing republican negative memes about the dems. He seems to be cut from the same cloth as Lieberman.
Bush: ‘Cut and run’ rhetoric result of less ’sophisticated vocabulary’
No shit.
Durbin voted against the wall of idiocy to be built on the border. Barak voted for it. That alone tells me a lot about this so-called boy wonder with the ability to speak – on non-controversial issues.
Aravir @ 92
I agree, and am definitely in the “jury’s still out” camp.
Although there’s nothing wrong with holding his feet to the fire just to make sure…
As to the wife being the “real deal,” Harvard Law, legal aid, etc., a recent Chicago Tribune article http://www.chicagotribune.com/…..1259.story questioned her 05-06 salary at the University of Chicago hospital system. Apparently, she was promoted to vice president and received a bump from about $110,000 to triple that. There are 17 vps at the hospital, supposedly all making similar numbers and she is a community marketing vp. Her new salary kicked in about the same time as Barack’s new job in the Senate.
IMO, it is WAY too early for Obama to run nationally, other than perhaps as VP with the right Pres candidate. A Hillary/Obama ticket is taking a chance on the first woman and the first black. Highly unlikely down south this would fly.
I have not been overly impressed with Obama since he first came on the scene. He is an excellent speaker, Charismatic, but no real substance. He needs to grow.
what do you mean obama has been timid. He’s had no problem using republican memes to criticize democrats (for not meeting his religious expectations)…a veritable losermon II in the making.
.
I wish this country was ready for Russ Feingold but alas, I think Americans like nutrasweet covered bullshit too much (and those heroin cheese biscuits at Red Lobster). Fat, and Stupid.
Bustednuckles @ 135
I do think he is totally mocking everybody. He thinks he’s far superior in every way… go back and look at words he tucked in here and there. Kinetic, indeed.
Coming up on KO, the author of a book on how the Bushies are taking evangelical money and mocking them. Why not the rest of us?
/*delurk
Waaaaaaay OT, but as long as we are talking illinois politics … Patrick Fitzgerald & assorted feds just announced the indictment today of Antoin “Tony” Rezko, a man thought to be one of Gov. Rod Blagojevich’s (dem) most significant contributors. Blagojevich is up for re-election in two weeks. Fitzgerald held a (relatively) long presser today in Chicago regarding the indictment. In case anyone is interested, here is a link for the video:
http://cltv.trb.com
Chicago tribune- http://www.chicagotribune.com – also has the indictment front & center.
/*relurk
For now he has a long way to go to convince me that he’s a leader. His oratory skills are an asset, if he backs them up with action to match, then perhaps I’ll believe in his leadership ability.
Agreed, Jane, unequivocally.
Obama was given a challenge and, as we said back in the Navy, he “nuked” it. The nukes are the guys who are sooo intelligent, they sometimes fall a bit short in the common sense department.
Howard Dean got up and got Wolf Blitzer all flustered because he said outright that no Democrat took a single penny from Jack Abramoff. Wolf was convinced he had a scandal on his hands and was visibly disappointed when the Democrat wouldn’t cooperate.
Well, a week or so later, Obama was on another talk show and all he had to do was to more or less repeat what Howard said “No Democrat took as much as a single penny from Abramoff.” So what did Obama do? He starts going into broad, general questions about how there’s too much money in politics!
Obama, if you’re reading this, there’s a time and a place! There’s a time to get into detailed questions on campaign finance reform and there’s a time to just repeat what the last guy said. Don’t try to get all fancy and innovative and intellectual when the situation calls for something simple and straightforward.
Jane, you say that “Obama is a cipher, an easy repository for the hopes and dreams of liberals everywhere,” then you attack him for not living up to your hopes and dreams.
The guy has been a senator for two years. Just two years!
In the Senate, if you charge in as a freshman and try to remake the chamber in your image, the other 99 senators will slap you down and you’ll never get up. Have you ever had a new boss come in and shake things up, move people around, and criticize how everything is done — all before she takes time to figure out how the business works and where the lines of power are? Those bosses don’t last long, do they? Everyone finds a way to work around them.
Obama has sent a signal that he intends to be an effective senator — and that means he doesn’t intend to run for president in two years. To become an effective senator, you have to take it slowly and cultivate relationships with other senators from both sides of the aisle. I assume this is what Obama is doing.
Stop criticizing someone for not being the savior you want him to be.
Quite honestly, I have alot more hope for Bernie Sanders then anyone in the Democratic bench right now. Bernie’s quite a firebrand and made his entire political career as such.
Maybe, even if we don’t take control of the Senate, he can start shaming some spine into the Democratic crowd like Obama. Lieberman, as the newest Republican independent, will no longer be available as a Democratic mentor.
(Thank heavens).
Why is Barack spelled Barak throughout this post?
[Mod Note; thanks for the heads up. Typos should be fixed now.]
Jenny from the Blog @ 114
Ya I heard him speak at a fundraiser [ok…black velvet dress, emerald jewelry, black velvet high heels], he held a very tough Washington crowd, including media people and lawyers including Cooper’s attorney VERY sharp guy, in the palm of his hand for a half an hour, speaking w no notes. As a speaker, he’s got the right stuff.
I was also impressed by his willingness to listen to my concerns about our national direction and also what’s happening in Russia. He is involved with Nunn-Lugar to help stop REAL weapons of mass destruction in the former Soviet Union. Unlike…well you know the rest of this story.
1five9 @ 149
Barack. If we are going to criticize someone for not living up to our standards…
punaise @ 126
And he just came to Virginia and did an event here with future Senator James Webb.
Folks, he voted against torture, voted against cloture on Alito, and even voted against Roberts. Honestly, I would have voted for Roberts. Obama is not ready yet to become our standard bearer. Can we please not shoot our own troops here?
Obama will be another DLC type democrat who will bend his votes to suit the political wind.
I wonder at those people who gush about his so called star power or so called leadership potential. He will prove to be just another run of the mill politician when the initial shine wears off.
I think GC is right. I’ve never trusted Obama and he’s done nothing to make me change my mind. He’s DLC to the core and I’ve had enough of that.
Barack has the potential to be a Democratic Party leader; in fact, he has the potential to be the Democratic Party leader, but he needs to step up to the plate.
What determines whether Barack will be on the top-tier or the lower rungs (with the likes of unremarkable, unknown Senators) is what he does in the next few years. I understand he’s a freshman Senator, but he’s from a safe blue state– there’s no need for the pandering, Barack, as long as you do well you’re going to get re-elected.
So, use your power and use it well. Stand up for us and our issues. Stand up for African-Americans (you’re their only voice in the Senate). Stand up for healthcare and against poverty and against the war.
Lead, Senator Obama, or you will never get another chance to.
I came into this way late, alas too much “real” work these days. But clearly there is a range of opinion on Obama and it would be great to bring this back up later. My only comment on the above, is that while he may not be seen by some as a “leader” on some issues now (though he did oppose Roberts and Alito). I don’t remember that either Clinton or Carter were either at this point. Like both, Obama is smart and charismatic, able to get himself across well both on news shows and in one-on-ones. Not true of either Kerry or Gore, and that factor will not change. At this point vis-a-vis 2008 I want someone who can get elected.
I’ve NEVER been impressed with this guy. I can think of approx. 20 things in which he walked the “right wing” line, including his recent support of Lieberman.
The other day he gave a speech asking people to be good environmental stewards and try to conserve energy etc and then left the meeting in a 10 mpg SUV delux whatever. I think he’s two-faced and he’s got a hell of a long way to go before I say anything positive about him.
So far as I’m concerned he’s another Zell Miller, perhaps not as bad. One thing is for sure. He is no Democrat.
actually, i’m from Illinois & have noticed some things Senator Obama has done.
He came out strongly on net neutrality, leading in the cause of keeping the Internet available on an equal basis.
He recently lead in the effort to create a database of congressional pork projects.
Though it is easy to say he hasn’t done anything, i think you have to ignore a lot of action!
of course, in election season, character assassination is the conservative course…
So why are you pushing Obama rather than Feingold ? Russ has a record of supporting difficult causes ahead of their polling momentum. Obama has a record of ….. uh……getting favorable press from DLC mouthpieces.
This push for Obama is in extremely bad taste while Lieberman is ahead of Lamont. Didn’t you cover this at the YearlyKos convention or is that actually the problem ?
Yeah, that’s right, I said it.
It is, in fact, to early to say anything about someone so unwilling to say anything, but I see some distressing parallels to the early career of a certain Connecticut senator.
and before you say this post is critical of Obama, recognize that this type of piece frames Obama as a potential candidate who just needs to do something significant. Similar to the Clinton/McCain frames, where the left is somehow supposed to hold out some hope for Hillary’s liberal offerings as soon as she can thwart the McCain threat.
Who is really buying this crap anyway ? Why doesn’t the party give Feingold some national airplay rather than teasing us with Hillary speculation and a freshman senator’s aspirations ? He is the only credible Democrat on ethics and reform. Everyone else is a test-case for something less than reform, no wonder the DLC is behind them.
Well said. And I thought I was the only one who felt this way about Obama. I gave him a little slack when first elected but he’s generally been a huge waste of talent taking no strong positions on anything. So far(no pun) just vanilla.
I agree absolutely. There are two possible scenarios. Either Obama is biding his time, earning his stripes as the new kid, and playing it cool until he has some experience. OR he’s a self serving coward who has repeatedly failed to stand with his colleagues on important legislative initiatives and, on a couple of occasions, actually undermined them.
The jury is out on this guy.