So much for the whole "we just found out about it last Friday" story. Turns out Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-AZ) saw explicit, sexual internet comunications between former GOP Rep. Foley and a Congressional page all the way back in 2000. Trying to untangle this mess just got even more complicated…looks like the Ethics Committee is going to have to issue a new round of subpoenas.
Yesterday on ABC's This Week, Cokie Roberts said pretty much what most moms in America have been thinking for the last two weeks: what in the hell is wrong with the Republican leadership that they did not understand that protecting the kids who serve in the page program should have been their FIRST priority. Watch the YouTube above — Cokie lays it flat out, and I agree with every word of it.
Crooks and Liars has the video of Rahm Emmanuel and Howdy Doody Adam Putnam (who showed up as Tom Reynolds' replacement, since the NRCC chair had a *cough* fever *cough* yesterday morning…mmmm hmmm…).
Rahm delivers a smackdown:
EMANUEL: George, here's what we know right now, and no, I don't agree. What we know now, as you just said, is as far back as 2002, 2003, there were warning signs, and there were multiple conversations.
EMANUEL: And what happened since that time? Mark Foley runs for Congress in 2004 even while they know there was problems.
2005, gets appointed to head the Missing and Abused Children Caucus for the Congress.
When he wants to retire, they ask him to run for reelection in 2006, even knowing, clearly, that there's something amiss and wrong here.
And the whole — the whole point here, let's just take one analogy. If a high school teacher was found doing this with a child, and the principal knew and not only said to the teacher, we're going to renew your contract, the community and parents would have that principal and teacher out….
STEPHANOPOULOS: All week long, there have been suggestions by – on talk radio and by Republicans and their allies that this was perhaps a Democratic dirty trick. And I just want to ask you plainly, did you or your staff know anything about these e-mails or instant messages before they came out?
EMANUEL: George, never saw them. And I'm going to say one thing, let's go through the facts right here…
PUTNAM: Were you aware of them? Didn't have to see them…
EMANUEL: Never saw them. Let me go right through the facts. One, Brian Ross, who broke the story on your network, said it came from a Republican source. Very unusual to do that.
Fact two, The Hill paper said it came from a Republican source. All the Republicans and staff people are coming forward are Republicans. Mark Foley, who wrote the e-mails originally, at the bottom of this whole problem, Republican. The leadership of the Congress, from Tom Reynolds to John Boehner to Speaker Hastert, who can't come on this show….
EMANUEL: Never saw them. The first time I ever saw these things, right here when Brian Ross broke this show and when the Post had the story.
What you guys want to do is take your dirty laundry and throw it over the fence and try to blame other people for the problems.
SM…ACK. Great job detailing the facts on the sourcs of this story being RE-PUB-LI-CANS (I typed that slowly for the comprehension impaired) — isn't it about time the media talking heads stopped trying to push this story line to provide faux conflict, since, you know, the sources of the story were Republicans, the leadership who fumbled the protection of the pages were Republicans, and the Congressman at the center of the storm is a…Republican.
The Democrats were cut out of the loop on this one, and no amount of dancing around, throwing sage bundles into the fire and hopping on one leg while rattling chicken bones and spitting toward the left changes the facts. And, as reporters, you should be reporting facts…not rumors, innuendo and self-perpetuating ass-saving CYA fact-free spin. (And, before anyone asks, apparently "Howdy Doody" is the nickname that Rep. Putnam has been given by a number of folks on the Hill. Had to share that with you guys.)
The WaPo reports that the fingerpointing is still ongoing within the GOP leadership. And that there are a LOT of holes and inconsistencies remaining in everyone's stories on this. (Well…duh.)
The NYTimes zeroes in on Rep. Shimkus (R-IL) and former Clerk of the House Trandahl — and their conversation with Foley — asking what was said and what was left uninvestigated. According to one Republican source, the meeting was a short one, which doesn't exactly lend itself to an image of thoroughness, does it?
And the award for worst turn of phrase goes to Bob Novak (H/T to John Casper):
The spectacle of Hastert showing up at political events across the nation where he is not wanted is a by-product of his survival. Early last week after the Foley scandal broke, the buzz on Capitol Hill was that he would be gone within hours. By week's end, however, Republicans were acting more like Republicans. They had decided Hastert must stay, because it was both fair and politically prudent. House GOP leaders, who had started the week shooting at each other, now were on the same page.
Get it, "on the same page?" Ba dum bum….ding.
(H/T to reader Momaloney for the YouTube link, and to Americablog for putting it up in the first place.)



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OOOH RAAAH! In the words of Mortal Kombat, FINISH THEM!
President Bush will be addressing the nation at 9:45 am ET on the Korea issue. Just a heads up for everyone. Still haven’t heard any confirmation as to whether the test was or was not a nuclear one — anyone hear confirmation one way or the other from any source? Let me know…
“My fellow Americans, I have officially shit the bed.”
Cheney will use this as the impetus to bomb Iran. Can’t leave those axis of evil guys alone to go nuclear.
Say hello to $200/barrel oil.
The little dictator really doesn’t like to be ignored. Bush, through incompetence and sheer delusion, has made the entire world a less safe place. He has, however, made his cronies a lot richer so in some circles he’ll still be considered a rousing success.
Christy Hardin Smith @
2
no official word yet but I am sure chimpy will confirm that it was a nookulur test, not nuclear.
One thing that Rahm didn’t dispute was the notion that Hastert took action and forced Foley to resign as soon as he heard it. That is a total lie. Foley resigned before Hastert heard about it. It was said repeatedly and wasn’t corrected.
Bush will confirm that the Foley scandal was the trigger for the nuclear explosion of the GOP.
OMG! Mwahahahahaha….a commercial for “Shoe Carnival” stores came on tv a few minutes ago. And the script starts with “It’s ridiculous how little she paid for her boots.” But I thought they said “how little she paid for her boobs” — and immediately looked up thinking “what insane plastic surgeon made that commercial?!?” Clearly, I am in need of much more coffee…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 9
Is Shoe Carnival featuring Condi in its ads? Boots or boobs – either way, ity’s funny!
Twisted Martini @
3
“We have all as a nation jumped the shark.”
Christy — haven’t heard anything from any Asian source that I would find both credible and not possibly manipulated by western media.
Concerned, though, that Stratfor is airing out the possibility of military response, although their take is that we can’t:
Thank you, George Bush and your minion Donald Rumsfeld, for breaking our military and for trashing our tradition of diplomacy.
There are now rumors of preparations for a second nuclear test; I don’t know if the source is credible since the outlet in UAE and the South Korean intel could be gamed.
Who was the FirePup who pointed out the unusual volume of puts for index funds and gold for 06-OCT? I think somebody knew this was going to happen, but I think somebody got their date wrong.
The USGS confirmed last night that a “seismic event” had taken place in the weapons testing area used by North Korea, but declined any statement of cause.
And that Novak quote is good, but The Hill took it a step further (and did it five days earlier) when they put it this way in an editorial on Oct 5. On the 4th, they had an editorial looking at divisions among the Democratic Leadership on the Hill, and they ended their discussion of republican divisions (and the Foley mess) like this:
Emphasis added, but the words are all The Hill’s.
Mornin’ Redd, Mornin’ pups,
I saw the Cokie mom speech yesterday and thought ti was solid from a lot of perspectives. 1) it called bullshit to alot of spin, 2) it got away from being a “process” story and refocused attention back on the safety of the kids where it belongs 3)the “circle the wagons and then start shooting INTO the circle” line, was a money quote.
I think TRex’s late night really flows from that. The Rep’s are all pointing at each other, but ulitmatley they will savage the Log Cabin Rep. crowd trying to save themselves.
Morning Christy.
I haven’t found anyone to confirm a nuke. At this point it’s being referred to as a “seismic” event. Also, based on the seismological data, it appears to be a fraction of what we dropped on Hiroshima, 15,000 tons of TNT in 1945 versus 550 tons of TNT in 2006.
Nuclear test ‘equivalent to 550 tons of TNT’
Christy Hardin Smith @ 8
“Come on down, we’ve got boobs in all shapes and sizes, boobs for every budget!”
How interesting. Joe Lieberman and Philip Zelikow intersect. Perhaps
someone might forward this information to the Ned Lamont campaign.
Did Phillip Zelikow, the 9/11 Commission’s Director, deliberately hide information about a possible attack against the United States? The answer is yes. Zelikow now works for Rice. But he knew about it in July 2001. That is if you believe what Bob Woodward wrote on page 52, of “STATE OF DENIAL”, describing July 10, 2001. “Philip Zelikow… knew something about the July 10 meeting. Indeed, Tenet and Black had demanded action that day, but it was not clear to Zelikow what immediate action really would have meant. The strategic warning Tenet and Black gave lacked details. When? Where? How?”
A press release from Sept. 21, 2004, contains this statement from Lieberman:
It was a shock to hear during our hearings that no one person heads up the hunt for Bin Laden. 9/11 Commission Executive Director Dr. Philip Zelikow told our Committee he traveled to Pakistan and Afghanistan to examine how the various agencies were conducting that hunt.
Zelikow asked his hosts… and I’m quoting here…“Well, where is the joint strategic plan for the hunt for Bin Laden? Where is the person who is in charge every day of the integrated strategic plan, [who] updates that plan every day of how we’re hunting Bin Laden?” And he concluded… quoting again…. “There is no such joint plan. There isn’t a joint integrated planner for that hunt.”
http://lieberman.senate.gov/ne…..&&
This statement by Lieberman strongly supports Zelikow. But there was no strategic plan to hunt Bin Laden, in 2001 because Zelikow stopped it-at least according to Woodward. Lieberman helped Zelikow in 2004 by catapulting the falsehood about the lack of a strategic plan. Lieberman is a fool for assisting Zelikow and misrepresenting Zelikow’s actions.
Still more of the same from Joe
http://www.senate.gov/~govt-af…..ringID=197
http://www.senate.gov/~govt-af…..;Year=2004
Twisted Martini @
3
Lol! nice one!
As for the ‘on the same page’ phrasing, this is what happens when you use trite phrases rather than actually thinking what you want to type; occaisionally, the page comes back to bite you in the ass when you least expect it.
Somehow, I’m reminded of R. Lee Ermey in Full Metal Jacket: Not even the goddamned common courtesy to give a reacharound.
lina @ 4
Not sure, but this could answer the questions that always come up about “the big guys” always patting each other on their asses…and it was always blamed on padding and protective gear. There will be some serious “high fives” behind closed doors.
FirePups can see the seismic event on the IRIS Seismic Monitor, graphically reflecting USGS-generated seismic data.
Little red circle showing a 4.2 magnitude “quake” on the Korean peninsula; just hover your mouse pointer over the circle to get a popup showing the size and time of event.
Great link Rayne at 6:39, thanks.
Rayne @ 20
You are amazing. I could have looked for a year and never found this site.
the look on all the men’s faces while cokie rants is quite revealing indeed.
These are the times Christy says to reward good behavior. I always struggle with this, which shows she is much smarter/bigger than I.
I can’t believe that Cookie hasn’t heard about this over a cocktail weiner or two.
Yea Twisted….
GO BLUE
GO TIGERS
WOT A WEEKEND!
(Buzzkill Alert)
There should be only one talking point the Dems use on this one.
We were out of the loop. This is purely and wholly a Republican Scandal. We are shocked and disgusted the leadership would allow this to happen.
Funny thing America, you can lead a nation into a false war, and convince god fearing people that killing is okay. You get blown in the White House, or solicit a minor and the wheels fall off.
Blame Religion
Kim Jong Il has released statement via youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxQ660DwEtw
pete @ 23
Yes, I noticed that too. They couldn’t look up. They couldn’t even look at each other. Like a bunch of small boys being shamed. And I wonder why since THEY supposedly weren’t the ones she was ranting about.
utube, not on topic but really really good
worth linking to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..&eurl=
I only wish Cokie had not used the words “silliest reaction” and “grown-up men”. It was more deserving of “despicable” or “disgraceful” and “our elected leaders”, imho.
and why leave the fathers out of a righteous rant?
It’s not only mothers who are outraged. And why did not one of the men speak up instead of gazing at their navels?
Morning all!
Christy! Either you’re feeling better, or you’ve got a fever on top ‘a that malaise you were fighting yesterday.
You’re on fire this morning! Just love seeing you nail those #%&##!
oopsie! I see I’m missing lil chimpy’s ta-doo-ra-loo this morning. just a reg-u-lar shame tis. I think I’ll wait & catch the re-run at the Lake.
Oh, and Anne – MY 1st thot was Condi too – heh. Wonder if she’ll ever dare get those dominatrix-ual boots out again. Gotta have just the right occasion. Myself. I’d just as soon she left ‘em in the closet, or maybe they could be auctioned off when this nightmare is over.
Good zippy post Christy. Really needed that.
ReneND — heh. Thanks. Had the link for years, watch it regularly because of a theory on earthquake forecasting that I’m following. My kids love that IRIS site, makes news about earthquakes around the globe more palpable to them.
Should remind folks here that a year ago this past week there was a massive earthquake in Kashmir that killed 80,000 people. We saw it in IRIS; horrible to see such a massive quake and very little US response.
What up oddball? Are you coming down for the IU-Michigan game in Nov? I binged out on sports on Saturday in a big way. I had like 4 football games going as well as the Yankee beat down.
I’ve been thinking about how this scandal undermines the GOP “strong on national security” meme. I know a lot of us are disappointed that this what has really gotten traction, rather than the Rice/9-11 meeting or the disastrous conduct of Iraq. But I’m coming around to the idea that it’s not a bad thing.
We all know about the concept that top Democrats can’t ever seem to grasp, that the reason the GOP is able to paint them as “weak” is not because they aren’t being trigger-happy, but because they don’t firmly stand up for their convictions, and instead try to figure out where the voters are and believe that.
I think “how can they protect the country if they won’t protect the children in their midst?” is an equally powerful narrative. It illustrates in a way that’s easy to grasp what they’re doing to the country at large — sacrificing our country’s security and well-being to perpetuate their own power and privilege, and covering up and intimidating whenever it looks like someone might find out.
If it were just some piddling sex scandal where the hypocrisy of a professional bluenose was exposed, then it really would be a sad commentary on the media’s obsession with sensation, and would indeed be the equivalent of Al Capone’s tax evasion charge. But instead, it happens to reveal essential truths. And that’s just fine.
POTUS speaking. Batten down the hatches.
I’m pushing this meme:
“Republicans ignore problems until they explode.”
Chimpy Live – we r working to confirm n. korea’s claims. US condemns this provocative threat.
World will respond.
you know what
the next time someone asks pelosi to take an oath whether or not the democrats knew about these emails she should respond as so”
I will testify under oath if every single republican testifies under oath and promises to resign if they knew anything about this predators abuse and kept him in charge of children”
boy, that would shut DOWN that avenue of attack the republicans are trying to get away with
a little chuckle for y’all
zee Chimp, heez not happy, no ?
http://politicalwire.com/archi…..d_off.html
did anyone see that dick snarl on the chimp?
whazzup with the liberry behind him?
Chimpy Live – US remains dedicated to diplomacy
threats will not lead to a brighter future for the NK people
Chimpy Live – wow, over already
Funny thing Saturday. I started the day at the Big House tailgating, and ended the evening within an arms throw of the bless you boys!
Don’t know if I will get to IU on 11/11. But I will be watching!
BTW, dat aint mudd on your bed….clean it up!
Dropping by to say hi. Hope all are well.
Be real careful North Koreans– when chimp starts talking about a brighter future and democracy– run away ’cause he wants to use his shiny weaponry.
ps– he looked spooked.
Redshift @ 33
PERFECT!
THERE’s MY bumper sticker! Thanks!
angie #44 — you know, he had that same “My Pet Goat” look today.
Anxious yet clueless.
bump up his meds & send him to the bike?
guys,
somewhere on the toobz is a site I have twice now forgot to bookmark – it’s a raw story like site produced by LGBT for LGBT – anyone know what I’m talkin’ about ? believe there is “One” in the title – always good dish and items – would sure like to follow their Foley reportage – anyone ?
Hey tommy,
Can you beleive the shit that keeps smacking the Repugs in the face.
Hey Karl, what is your October Suprise? Iran, North Korea, Republican Implosion or are you just gonna cancel the elections in the name of National Security?
Rayne @ 46
yup.
never mind my query @ 48 – found it!
http://www.pageoneq.com/
oddball @ 49
bite your tongue
I’m thinking a decaration of war and suspension of the constitution
no elections
anyway, how are we doing getting rid of emachines?
Gosh, I just can’t begin to tell you all how PROUD I am of one of my area’s congresscritters, Jack Kingston, (R, Deluded) for sashaying over to Fox News Sunday and accusing the Democrats of being behind this fetid swamp, as reported in the WaPo. Kinda made my Monday…
angie @ 50
Looked to me like it was a long night with little sleep.
Peterr, I hope he didn’t sleep a damned wink.
I hope he doesn’t sleep tonight, either.
He’s gonna be parsing the DVD of “Team America” for clues as to Kim Jong Il’s next move.
angie @ 29
Presumably because they all heard the rumors. Because they all at least suspected, and they did nothing.
oddball @
42
Hey Oddball and Twisted, congrats on the Tigers. Sad as I was to see the Twins fold up, I LOVE seeing the Yankees go down. Made my day.
Next victim: GOP
cbl @ 48
[meandering response rendered irrelevant deleted]
angie @
44
The President isn’t going to do a darn thing about North Korea for two reasons. One is that he is a bully and the second is that North Korea doesn’t have any oil.
When I say that the President is a bully I mean that he’ll only threaten countries that can’t really stand up to him militarily. That’s why he’s talked a big game with North Korea and who actually had a credible nuke program and did nothing while invading and threatening to invade Iraq and Iran who currently aren’t a credible nuke threat. But they do have oil.
thanks BQ – happened to remember the name the second I hit “submit comment” above*g*
Rayne @ 55
Don’t imagine no sleep improves his decision-making “skills,” so not sure I want the pres sleepless…
From Time Magazine, today.
North Korea Calls the U.S. Bluff
“Washington has said it won’t tolerate a North Korean nuclear weapon. Now, the question is whether that intolerance can be enforced.” Bush is just the opposite of Teddy Roosevelt’s “speak softly and carry a big stick.”
I think this is a perfect example of the limitations of the Bush Administrations
favoriteonly foreign policy tactic: “F*ck you!” It’s just the opposite of Teddy Roosevelt’s “Speak softly and carry a big stick.”So, it took a pedophile checking out the pages’ butts to get Cokie to come around.
Not the pointless war in Iraq.
Not the torture of prisoners or the suspension of Habeas Corpus.
Not the outting of a CIA operative working on WMD in Iraq.
Not the massive wire tapping and loss of privacy for every single American.
Not even the tragic loss of her own hometown was enough to prevent Tokyo Cokie from tut-tutting every effort the Democrats made to get their message out or fight the Republican Juggernaut.
No, it was a sex scandal that woke our little Peyton Place on the Potomac and has them all in a tizzy.
Can we PLEASE ignore Cokie, Broder and the whole Note gang from now on? They disgust me and nothing they have to say will make an iota of difference in the upcoming election. If we win, let’s make sure they all retire. They are a significant reason why we are in this mess to begin with and the sooner they go away, the better off we will all be.
Hully Gee, Christy.
Go get em!
Balrog @ 59
I don’t follow professional sports. The Yankees lost? Wow, I would hate to be working at Giuliani Partners today. His mood rises and falls with their win record.
But surely you see that Emanuel dodges the question of whether he was aware of the emails or IMs. I doubt the real answer would change the actual facts of the case. But he does dodge the question.
Anne — I’m embroiled in a heated exchange at DailyKos about Bush’s role as “deciderer”. I really don’t think he’s making any decisions.
I think the decisions have been made all along elsewhere in this administration when it comes to foreign policy, and that Bush’s removal from office short of an election of a Dem with a Dem majority in Congress will stop the decisions that have been made and are being made.
That’s the scariest part of all this mess. Those signing statements — authored by David Addington — are going to burn us massively should Dick Cheney become president, or if any one of their sycophants does instead.
John Casper @ 64
chinps oportunity to look like he’s serious about national security
shiny new bombs away
it’s october, surprise
Huffington post has a great utube of NJ Kerns turning his back on a Mother asking why her son is still in Iraq
Jeff @ 68
Yep, I noticed that as well.
“Howdy Doody”! That’s awesome! I think I could hear Putnam’s jaws clicking as he recited his tired talking points. Although I think his strings got tangled when he tried to suggest that average Americans weren’t talking about Foley, but were talking about what a great week the Dow was having! BTW, all I read in the faces (or the tops of their hanging heads) of the men sitting with Cokie was that they knew the jig is up for the republican party.
Pam in SC @ 71
link?
Go watch the Cokie Roberts clip. I am no fan of her but she hit the nail on the head. Especially regarding the effort to shift the blame to the Dems and Media – on the “therory that the base would hate the media more than child preditors …. I don’t think so”….
It is funnier (and more effective) in watching than in the telling… go watch.
Rayne @ 69
Rayne – agree totally, and if I wasn’t convinced before, seeing the “My Pet Goat” look on his face this morning sealed it. This man is so far out of his element it is frightening – there is no f’ing way he is up to any of these challenges, and the fact that Cheney and Addington are feeding him policy and talking points is even scarier.
If we do that, I suspect those million North Korean soldiers on the border are in Seoul in a couple of days. Seoul is only about thirty-miles south of the DMZ. The North Koreans will take horrific casulatlies but who cares, that’s more food for the rest of them. By virtue of their vastly superior numbers, they will overwhelm our ?40,000 U.S. troops.
That’s China’s back yard. They own a huge amount of our T-Bills. They start selling those T-Bills, whose going to buy them?
HuffPo…
Developing…Major TV News Network Pursuing Story On GOP Rep. Kolbe’s Involvement With Congressional Pages…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
Hmm…
Yo Chimpy was told of the test round 10 pm last nite acc. to the bobbleheads on teevee.
poor georgie’s naptime interrupted.
potus interruptus.
cbl @ 48– Mike Rogers has been making the rounds on the cable shows lately and has a blog called BlogActive– seems determined to out people who vote and work against their own interests.
OT – CNN – “a sub-kiloton explosive event” – very difficult to tell if it was nuclear or conventional explosion
Foley is still on the front pages- and the story doesn’t seem to be running out of steam. Another week at least it appears. There are now four weeks left and one more will now be spent on Foley. Clusterfuck will use the Korean connection to growl and bark and look like a junk yard dog- but unless he drops some bombs- I’m not sure that his snarling will have much effect.
We’re gettin down to the short strokes. Clusterfuck faces losing both houses of congress- a total repudiation of his six years in office. He’s going to do everything in his power to make sure that doesn’t happen- and he’s got a LOT of power.
angie – did find it, and sure enough they have youtube of Mike Rogers
pageoneQ – good little site
If Clusterfuck loses both houses of congress- his term of office expires in January. He will not only NOT have a mandate- he will have a cease and desist order- and should he go to congress with a favorite conservative idea- he will be laughed out of the place. A loss would be ENORMOUS. Here’s hopin!
Cozumel @ 77
Thanks Coz. It’s my understanding that Kolbe is the one openly gay Republican in Congress and he had announced his retirement before this scandal. There were rumors that there was someone else, besides Foley involved with pages. Maybe it was him?
*ucker Carlson was on Matthews yesterday and he said there is another Congressman involved, but it was with a female page. I trust Jason Leopold more than I trust *ucker and I don’t trust Leopold at all.
There is no way the GOP
spindisinformation machine can gin up an October Surprise that will work in this climate. I had predicted a possible confrontation with Iran during this time period. I’m increasingly feeling that to be unlikely.The Korean test was a fizzle – 1/2 kiloton yield shows this test to be comparable to the NK IRBM test last summer – an engineering failure.
But this engineering failure by the NK government is paled in comparison to the abject failure which is the US’s foreign policy, We’re already in two failing land wars in Asia. We are unable to deploy a large force in SK without risking the destruction of the SK economy. China’s actions over the next four weeks will probably show more people how powerless we are in this developing situation.
CNN isn’t letting go of Hastert and the GOP House leadership. Denny probably got excited overnight, hearing about the NK test, thinking he’s now off the hook. Fine with me. Every time value voters see him waddle out there to a microphone as the announcer is talking about something the value voters hate, the GOP loses another 20,000 to 50,000 votes.
John Casper @ 77
rw, if you have the time or the inclination, I am interested in your opinion. I think the fact that the WH is supporting Hastert suggests that they knew about Foley’s emails and that they see Hastert as their first firewall.
rwcole #83 — it’s not over until two things are accomplished:
1) All damage, including the AUMF’s and all signing statements, are undone;
2) A veto-proof majority is in place.
Not necessarily in that order. The machine will continue to crunch along, if haltingly, until these things have come to pass to check the power of the unitary-unilateral presidency.
Clusterfuck says that the Korean nuke test is unacceptable and threatens to sic the UN Security Council on the North Koreans.
I suspect that this response ain’t gonna cut it with his “supporters”.
Has anyone asked yet whether Rep. Foley was alone the night he went to the pages’ dorm, or whether he might have been accompanied by someone else?
John Casper @ 87
OH MAN!
THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE!!!
let’s hope it’s true and we find out
we will reneg one way or antoher, this is too much debt to survive
I don’t thing that’s an option. Other countries will just devalue the dollar and it will cost us more dollars to buy oil.
me to me #86 — let me throw out this little scenario.
What if it only LOOKED like North Korea was the threat, and they were instead a Chinese stalking horse?
Did we get our chain rattled by some other entity that clearly had the ability to do more to prevent this than we did?
John Casper #87 — I suspect that last night’s events may also figure in this mix; if Bush was removed from office and Cheney couldn’t step up, who’d be next in line? What’s their position on the neo-con’s foreign policy to date?
What is this “dirty trick” defense about anyway? Those who brought this forward are to be commended, and those who tried to hide it should be reviled. All this defense says is that while some Republicans are to be reviled, some Democrats are to be commended.
Not very effective, is it? But then, using the same playbook over the past 6 years does lend a certain staleness to their tactics.
John Casper @ 92
we have to pay some price, that’s for sure
as far as not being able to buy oil, that’s really not a problem
we were supposed to be energy independant by now, the technology is conventional and it can happen in less then ten years
that will drive the American economy till we develope the hardware neccessary to be independant of outside energy
Jeff @ 89
Good question. I thought I heard somewhere that the page dorm is next to Bullfeathers? If that’s accurate, and IIRC, Bullfeathers is a huge GOP and House staffer hang out. It’s a very high traffic area. If Foley was inebriated, it’s possilbe he accomplished that at Bullfeathers.
John- Hadn’t thought about that- could be- but equally likely in my opinion is that the White House would rather have the fight be JUST about Hastert- if they throw Denny under the bus, then at least three more gooper seats in congress come under immediate fire. This is about seats- and they probably think that they can save Hastert’s- which perhaps they can.
With North Korea detonating a nuclear weapon, Junya chaulks up one more failure in an unbroken line that extends back all the way to his birth.
Heckuva job, Junya!
Rayne– Well it’s a damned good start!
John Casper @ 84
I read an article this AM (Maybe WaPo?) that said the Kolbe allows people to use his house in Washington on the weekends including former staffers, like pages. It had an anecdote where he offered the house to 4 former pages to come back to DC for a Page reunion.
They wound up not comming bavcause of a snowstorm.
I wonder if something happened in his house?
Or maybe he also has houseguests when he is in residence himself?
This is reminding me of that missing intern who worked for Gary Condit.
You know here in New York, there is a “tradition” about interns and staffers in Albany. It’s a variation on “what happens in Vegas, stay in Vegas”.
It’s called the “bear Mountain Bridge Rule”, If you sleep with your intern or stafer north of the Bear Mountain Bridge, it doesn’t count as adultery that your opponents can use against you, cause in Albany everybody does it.
What would make anyone think that Washington is any better?
Thanks rw.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
Rayne @ 93
by proxie, not a bad theory, however it will make it harder for them to colect on the money we are borrowing to fund the war
unless thiss us their plan, economic pressure to collapse
John Casper @ 87
WOW
John Casper, nice pickup. I totally missed that!
I think you may be on to something. A lightbulb just went on for me.
me to me #103 — model it out further. What happens if they do cause us to reneg?
Can the USA get financing to mount a military response ANYWHERE?
In this respect, it becomes a rather expensive insurance policy for the Chinese, and the rest of the world might even applaud.
John Casper @
87
IMO, the fact that the WH is supporting Hastert would probably be happening whether or not they knew about the emails. They can’t afford to lose the House and face Henry Waxman as a committee chair with subpoena powers. The current political calculus is such that tossing Denny over before November 7 would likely precipitate exactly that. Of course, keeping him in place may accomplish the very same thing. . . .
I’m not saying the WH didn’t know about the Foley emails, only that you can’t tell from their support for Hastert.
Peterr @ 105
that’s a good point, they are under the correct opinion that if hasert goes others who knew ALSO have to go
one for all right now
looseheadprop @
104
any way we can get another look at who else stayed over at the WH the same nights as Jeff Gannon?
Tim Russert said last week that this scandal went all the way to the WH. I’m still trying to find the actual statement.
Hey lhp, only if you have the time or the inclination, I saw where the Feds are looking to see if Jeanine Pirro cut special deals with the clients of Mr.
LisaSantangelo, the defense attorney, who defended her husband against the tax evasion charges.That story gets more bizarre everytime I read about it.
Sadly, the NYTimes has a front page article with some depth, to the effect that the evangelicals blame Foley as an individual, but not the GOP. Unfortunately, behind the firewall.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10…..r=homepage .
It’s his ‘lifestyle’, as you know, and the GOP is hostile to that, whereas the Dems are its enablers and promote the gay agenda.
It’s really amusing, in a sad way, that so many of the republicans caught up in this are gay themselves, and probably had more reasons than party dominance to hush it all up. This may end up being a real setback for gay rights, all because too many people think that gay=pedophile.
off for the day, cathc all later
things are looking up for controll of both houses…now to make sure the machines give the correct count and the precincts that are democratic don’t have to wait in line too long
Looked to me like it was a long night with little sleep.
I think I need more caffeine too: my first reading of this was ‘a long night with little sheep‘.
It’s being reported that the explosion was equivalent to about 550 tons of TNT. A very small nuke.
me to me #103 — it’s called “asymmetric warfare”, which includes the use of proxies (now that you’ve brought up the term).
The Iraq War, for example, is not merely a war for oil; that was the inducement the other entities actually at war used to encourage us to enter the war. We have been in a proxy war, between Iran and Israel, all along, as evidenced by Chalabi (for Iran) and the folks who were manipulating Larry Franklin et al.*
North Korea could also be a proxy for another entity that has gotten very fed up with our warmongering in the Middle East; the other entity(ies) have interests there that we are threatening.
I recommend this particular treatise on the subject of asymmetric warfare, as it also suggests what objectives may be in play in this kabuki theatre we are watching with horror.
[* - this is one of the less obvious but more important reasons why Joe Lieberman should not be elected by CT; it’s not to the benefit of CT or the rest of the US that a person who would be co-opted by certain foreign interests remain a key vote.]
New thread up – Why Did Bush Drop the Ball on Inspectors in N. Korea?
Too little, too late. While the GOP leadership was figuring out how to circle the wagons, they let their own contradictions and inconsistencies surround them. Too late for unity, guys, it’s time for Instant Karma.
new thread
Peterr — thanks for the heads up.
EvilDrPuma — heh. Instant Karma-geddon.
Anne @ 8
“Noo-kyoo-lure. It’s pronounced noo-kyoo-lure.”
–Homer J. Simpson
John Capser,
In the 1980’s a group of rogue agents from a whole bunch of different agencies who all knew each other from working together during the Ford administration tried to build a case that the Koch Admin. in NYC was really being run by, and this is the phrase they actually used, “a cabal of homosexuals” and they wanted to try to bring a RICO case claiming that this “cabal” was some sort of criminal enterprise helping each other get a leg up in politicas and covering up for each other to stay in the closet.
One of them approached me and try to sell the case to me (I was doing public corruption cases at the time). I never laughed so hard in my life as whenI head this theory.
I quickly serioused up when I found out that they had done survellences of these people. Then I was was outraged. I think some of them still resent me cause they think I poisoned Giulinai against their “case”. Not that anyone needed to do that. Whether you like him or not, Rudy is not a bigot
The part this brain trust could not grasp is being gay is not a crime. They actually tried to sell the idea of using “sodomy” as the underlying crime. Fortunatley for my sanity, sodomy is not a qualifying predicate act under RICO.
When they couldn’t get sane people to use their info, they threatened to leak it to the press. At that point, someone pointed out that they had spent goevernment resources on unauthorized surveillances and most of these guys realized that they had enough time in the system to be eligible to retire.
So, I’m thinking. What if soemthing similar is happening? What if it all started with Guggert getting into the WH? What if some folks decided to get to the bottom of that and along the way found out about Foley?
I keep going back to TRex’s latenight post. The Prepublicans are going to use this to force out all they gays on Capitol Hill. Or try to.
This is all just a theory. I actually have no knowledge whatsoever of what is going on with this in DC, but if I were an enterprising reporter, I would start talking to former memebers of Presidential Protective details. They too have an alumni group. That’s hwere I would start, if I was going to chase down this theory
John Casper @ 109
And in Nassau, the DA cuts special deals with the law firm that hired her so she could move back to NY from PA expressly to run for DA.
Wouldn’t surpise me a bit.
John Casper @ 15
I was already getting the impression last night that this “nuke” was probably not much bigger than Denny Hastert’s Mini-Me. So, either North Korea has tested the world’s smallest weapon of mass destruction or–surprise!–Bush is looking for any excuse to get America a new fix of sweet, sweet fear. Or both.
Ed*ard Teller @ 85
I wouldn’t necessarily say it was a total engineering disaster. One can learn an awful lot from the mistakes. They will have proved some calculations in one area and have a better understanding of what needs to be changed to make a better result. As Edison stated about all his failures for the light bulb, ‘I have found 10,000 ways of not making a light bulb.’ One only needs one right outcome to become successful.
I’ve read somewhere (don’t remember where) that Saudi Oil is backing up China’s purchase of the US debt. This may cause some serious issues later.
oddball @ 25
Small correction: use the active voice on that first sentence. “They kept us out of the loop.” This was not by chance, it was by design.
After taking a brief from Stevie Hadley on NK’s nuke detonation last nite, Junya put his hands over his ears, and wearing his cammie jammies shut his eyes and and got some well-deserved zzzs.
And so it came to him in a dream: A voice whispered to him. An Exit Strategy for Iraq and Afghanistan! Hot damn!
Waking early, Junya didn’t even bother to change out of his cammie jammies, but skipped down the stairs to join Laura Belle for breakfast.
Digging into his bowl of Fruit Loops and slabbering some peanut butter on his doughnuts, Junya exclaimed:
I got it! I really got it! An Exit Strategy for Iraq and Afghanistan! Hot damn!
I’m gonna go on TV and tell the ‘Merican public that I’ve figured out how to make us safer.
Yup, we just tell ‘em that we are bringin’ our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan so North Korea don’t get ‘em.
Yup, we gotta have ‘em home to protect the ‘Merican people and our way of life.
To which Laura Belle replied:
Junya, you come out from under that table right now, y’hear?
And look what you’ve done! You’ve wet your cammie jammies again!
I sure as shit don’t know why Babs didn’t leave you on somebody else’s doorstep.
lhp –
Wow! “Gotta watch out for those gays . . . they’ll take over the world.” How quaint!
But I don’t think the Presidential Protective Detail alumni association would be much help. The only way – the ONLY way – these folks can do their job is if no one ever, ever says a word to reporters about what they’ve seen. The people they protect have to trust those who guard them, or else they’ll try to evade their protection to have certain conversations . . . and then the protection ceases to be effective.
Serious DC reporters know this, and respect it. They don’t even try to ask, seeing it as akin to asking a journalist to burn a source, times ten. The Secret Service folks are just about the only folks in DC who get unquestioned respect anywhere they go, from anyone they meet – and it’s well-deserved.
(That’s also why the SS gets pissed at being politicized at campaign events, like the situation in Denver where a volunteer posed as SS to get some Dems thrown out.)
I think it was truly seismic testing…someone is doin’ a lil’ xploring of there own.
“That earl in dem hills!!”
http://www.kimsoft.com/1997/nk-oil3.htm
Ok, ok, all joking aside this nuclear testing stuff is pretty damn frightening! Nice job on the administrations behalf to be ignoring our Asian friends. How does one focus on only one tip of an axis?
Kolbe knew there is a rumbling train heading toward him so he decided to try to re-route the train. Will it work? We don’t know yet. Denny could be under that train as we speak…
me to me @ 95
I’ve thought much the same…not to mention the repairs to deteriorating INFRASTRUCTURE (and in the case of New Orleans, infrastructure that’s broken).
tune in for the next musical (chairs) installment by GOP crooks and liars:
“The Sin I’m In”
I heard a Repug this AM countering this scandal with “two other demos did the same thing during the Clinton Admin and nothing happened to them” story. Sorry, I was half asleep and don’t remember if it was CNN or MSNBC I was watching, and it was an old guy with gray hair. That’s all I have, but it looks like the repugs have gotten a firm “how to play it memo” this morning. I expect to hear more of same.
Notice in the clip ALL the men are looking down.
Rayne @
20
It seems this thing is still not adding up properly. Last night LindyH and Old Coastie linked to these sites re the NK test, which was supposed to have occurred at 10:35 and change UTC.
US Geological Survey
Swiss Red Puma (via China?)
The quake/shock finally showed up on USGS but Red Puma doesn’t show it yet that I can see. Any seismologists up yet who can tell me if I should take my tinfoil hat off and look for the key to my fallout shelter?
From last night:
LindyH @
22
itwasntme @ 131
When they can name names, provide evidence, and explain why they didn’t do something with the information then instead of saving it for use as a cheapass excuse now, I’ll start giving a damn.
Jeff at 68 — I wouldn’t trust Rahm further than I could pick him up and throw him (which would not be far…) — but the smackback on the “throwing the dirty laundry over the fence” bit was too priceless not to share with you guys. *g*
CHS – Agree.
Christy Hardin Smith @
135
Yeah, Christy, imagine if he were on OUR side! [/snark]
HotFlash — interesting, about that RedPuma site and the lack of a signal.
Got anything from Asian detection systems? I think I’d trust them more on this matter.
O.T. Sorry if this was brought up earlier (I am hitting and running here, alas – work :-()but, there is a terrific piece today and yesterday in the Boston Globe about the impact of the Bush evangelicals on foreign aid – truly shocking, and wonderfully researched and written. Ditto the NYTimes the last couple of days on the impact of same on work environment, healthcare, land use etc. (basically they are outside the law). Both of these are page 1 items – and lengthy.
Also today in NYTimes, Kirkpatric (their right winger, relig writer) has up something (p.1) that Foley will not impact the Repubs because they blame it on Foley not the party. (B.S.)
HotFlash — signal shows up in the European-MiddleEastern Seismological Center. Still looking for Asian data.
Personally, I say what in the hell is wrong with Cokie Roberts that she’s surprised by the Republican page scandal and cover-up? How out of touch does someone have to be to be outraged by that after six years of the Bush administration’s tactics, from secret meetings with energy lobbyists and the rape of the West Coast electricity market to the bogus claims in the Iraq war and the deaths of tens of thousands of people to Katrina and everything else? And she’s upset by emails and possible buggery of young men? If the Republicans are willing to put troops in harm’s way and kill innocent Iraqis, does she really think they’re going to have qualms about covering up Foley’s actions?
darrelplant @
141
Exactly. You see, Cokie — while she made an excellent statement here — appears to be reacting with irritation that the Republicans failed in the political stage on this one — not because she really cares about the pages. I mean, how about the dead U.S. soldiers? How about their mothers? Not to mention the dead and wounded Iraqis, gosh, I guess that would be expecting too much of her.
You see, to these rich and famous so-called journalists, only the spectacle, the lights and the music mean anything. The important issues about the Bush administration and Republican treachery have been right in front of Cokie’s eyes for… well, for many years, come on. How can she pretend to be shocked — shocked — that House members are sexually harassing pages? No, she’s just mad because her party mishandled the PR on this. She understands that they are dumb and incompetent, but she misses that they are truly bad and unscrupulous people who are pushing totalitarianism.
By the way, I used to admire Cokie when she was on NPR. At that time she seemed reasonably objective. How have the Republicans corrupted these perhaps basically decent people so thoroughly and so quickly?
It’s hilarious seeing Cokie go after the GOP. I remember her in Iowa in 2000 where she was practically drooling over Bush, talking about how wonderful he was and how there wasn’t this much buzz around the Iowa caucuses in a long time. But she’s damn right about the GOP here. I guess her and the MSM will defend practically anything else these pricks do, except pedophilia.
My e-mail to Adam Putnam today:
You stated on national TV that:
PUTNAM: Based on the information we have today, the speaker’s office acted proactively, they acted aggressively, and within hours, within hours of the explicit e-mails coming to light, they demanded Foley’s resignation. Contrast that to previous scandals.
What is the basis for your claim that Rep. Hastert demanded that Rep. Foley resign? This is the same falsehood being peddled by your RNC chair Mr. Ken Mehlman.
“This is not a claim that can be debated or spun. They’re claiming that Hastert threatened Foley with expulsion unless he resigned. That either happened or it didn’t. And it simply did not happen. Hastert has made clear from the beginning of this scandal that he only learned of the IMs last Friday when they were reported by ABC. Hastert has claimed that he would have demanded Foley’s resignation or expulsion had he known about the IMs. But in fact, Foley resigned before ABC made the IMs public and received no such ultimatum from Hastert.” Read the rest of the article here: http://glenngreenwald.blogspot…..story.html
Rep. Hastert DID NOT demamd Rep. Foley’s resignation. Rep. Foley resigned BEFORE THE ALLEGATIONS WENT PUBLIC BY ABC. Rep. Hastert MERELY STATED that he WOULD HAVE DEMANDED the resignation of Rep. Foley.
You need to come clean on this, Rep. Putnam. You are at best wrong. At worst, you spoke a deliberate falsehood. What is it?
My second e-mail to Rep. Putnam:
Rep. Putnam,
You’re getting nailed on FireDogLake as well. Here’s the link:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..#more-4881
Time to come clean, Rep. Putnam. Rep. Hastert DID NOT DEMAND REP. FOLEY’S RESIGNATION.
Cokie Roberts, last time I looked she was a pompas media whore. I think that she, who was so rah, rah for the war, has no right to express that sort of sentiment. Gee, she thinks it’s “silly” that the repugs are circling the wagons and shooting each other. fuck her! This is what I think, she is nerviously looking left and right, trying to find the exit and the life boat cause the ship she was happy to be on is sinking. Rats abandon ships when they sink. She belongs at the bottom with the rest of the Paige shtooping, war starting cowardly scum. Iraq War. Up to 48,000 civilian dead. 2,743 Americans dead, 20,468 wounded. Did she get all wound up about this stuff? She speaking on behalf of all the mothers whos hearts are torn to shreds by the deaths and mangled bodies of their children. She supported the war. Fuck her. She pisses me off.