Dear Gay Republicans,
Hi, it's TRex and I was wondering if we could talk some time real soon. I know we've had our differences in the past and all, and that some of the things I have said about you self-hating, traitorous, invertebrate bitchez have been less than kind. But I also understand that things have gotten a little uncomfortable for y'all over there in the stuffy, dirty closets of RNC headquarters of late, so I thought that out of the goodness of my heart, I would offer you this one last opportunity for polite discourse before the November elections come and a Democratic Congress proceeds to hose down your lives with shit-sauce on the one side while the Christian Right try to burn you at the stake on the other.
Never mind that we told you so. Never mind that all this time you've surely known at some level that your affiliation with the Republican Party was wrong. The Mark Foley debacle is a grenade in the gay GOP foxhole. This scandal has legs. Mark Foley's legs. And they're in the air. With the elections a month away, the Reich Wing is going to be looking for a scapegoat, and guess who that's going to be? Funny how things work out, isn't it?
After all the mass deception, all the media manipulation, the phony war, the thousands of dead, the cronyism, the corruption, the incompetence, the bullying and intimidation, the bashing of all that is sensible and scientific, the looting of the treasury, and the serial mutilation of our Consititution, the issue that has finally slipped the noose around the elephant's neck is a Big Gay Congressman and his predilection for stalking underage boys. At this juncture, there is no worse position in Washington to be in (well, besides maybe underneath Mark Foley) than to be a Gay Republican.
No matter that your operatives have been an integral part of the lube job that enabled the Neocons to bugger this country senseless. No matter that you are arrayed as high up into your party's power structure as the eye can see (and beyond!). The same rock-throwing villagers who would come after all of us Reality-Based Gays are now mounting up the road to your (terribly expensive, overdecorated) castle, lighting their torches and waving their pitchforks high in the air.
Jeff Gannon, David Dreier, Ken Mehlman (and et tu, Huckleberry?), welcome to your own Night of the Long Knives. There aren't enough buses in the entire Distict of Columbia to handle the sheer number of you who are about to be thrown beneath their merciless wheels. I have wondered before whether it was going to be your cognitive dissonance or the party faithful's that would be first to reach critical mass and send you flying headlong out of the GOP's revival tent. Well, now I know.
And it figures. I mean, I guess it was inevitable that the Talibangelicals would be the ones trying to purge the gays from the Republican Party and not the other way around because apparently nothing short of death camps was going to convince you all that working for those lying, murderous fuckers was anything but a fantastic idea. What could possibly go wrong?
The next few weeks are going to be bloody. Ugly as hell. You are all about to be flushed from the closet like covey of farm-raised quail from the underbrush. And somebody's about to get shot in the face.
But we may be able to help you. See, there's one of two ways we can go about this.
As a representative of the Gay Mafia, I am prepared to offer excellent terms to you on behalf of my capo. You can be driven forth and shot from the sky by battalion after battalion of bloodthirsty muckrakers and satirists like myself, no salacious detail of your secret lives too dirty or shameful to serve up for the titilation and amusement of our readers…
-OR!-
You can come along quietly and accept the role of captured Nazi rocket scientists. We know that you know where all the bodies are buried. That's something you can take to the bank with every sell-out. You've been willing to carry water other operatives wouldn't carry. You've been buying your position among them by being willing to prove your loyalty again and again, to go above and beyond the call of duty, to do jobs that their other drones wouldn't do.
So, spill it. Come on over to our side and we'll do what we can to offer you amnesty, but at a price. Your crimes are such that we cannot let you off with impunity. You are going to need to provide us with some information.
Or you can stay where you are and try your luck at the hands of the bloodthirsty mob. I think I can hear them off in the distance now. What's that they're chanting over and over? It sounds like, "THE CHIL-DREN, THE CHIL-DREN, THE CHIL-DREN!!"
I think once they get in here there won't enough left of you guys to fit in the top of an aspirin bottle. You might want to think fast. This is your Hour of the Wolf.
Let us know what you decide.
Ta-taaaaaaaaa,
T. Rex, Esq.
P.S. You can't bring Matt Drudge. No amnesty for him! Leave him for the villagers.
Related posts:
- Late Night: Nice Health Coverage You Got There. Be a Shame If Somethin’ Happened to It.
- Healthcare Reform: What Ever Happened to Give the People What They Want?
- We’re Having a Contest: Which Democrat Has the Most Lobbyist Skeletons in Their Closet?
- A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to al-Haramain Justice
- LATE NIGHT: stfu, please (or not!)





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TRex!
Vote smarts. Vote Democratic!
fitz!!!
How peculiar. Where are all the East Coasters? Usually I find myself arriving here about comment 295.
So, well then…
FITZ!
Hiya, LindyH. As a dear friend of mine used to say:
Great minds think alike. And ours, too. :-)
Your best work yet!
Sorry, T-Rex. This was OT and …um…now I’ll go read your post, she said with a shame-faced grin.
North Korea said Monday it has performed its first-ever nuclear weapons test and that there has been no radioactive leakage from the site. South Korean government officials also said North Korea performed the nuclear test, the South’s Yonhap news agency reported. U.S. officials said they had no evidence to confirm that a test had occurred.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/st…..id=4640799
…lighting their ‘toches’…?
Oy, such a pain
;>)
darkblack @ 8
Oops.
Fixed.
Any lurkers in the house tonight?
Holla if yer sexy!!
I really like the way that reads.
Let me say for anyone reading, I am willing to discuss terms of surrender on a case by case basis. My contact information is here on the blog. I’m a rational professional, but if you’re going to turn state’s to our side, looking for protection, you’l need to deliver value worth the coverage.
I’m a professional negotiator and not unreasonable.
Pach, I don’t know if I told you, but I loved your post last night.
what about Hastert and his roommate chief of staff Palmer?
TRex @ 11
Thanks. I took it as quite the compliment that someone thought you wrote it.
Now, now, TRex, let’s not count our chickenhawks before they are hatched. Gloating in advance is figure skating on thin ice.
Maybe all this will come to pass as you predict, but I’ve spent the last year constantly expecting things like the Libby investigation to bear fruit. Or any number of other GOP scandals. And *somehow* they never quite reach the finish line.
Funny about that.
Swordswoman @ 5
LOL
The korea thing is a bummer, totally bad timing to say the least. It could be to the Dems advantage, but they have to be strong and unrelenting in the finger-pointing at Bush. They have to argue we’ve wasted three years in the sandbox while a truly dangerous adversary has been going along scot-free to do whatever. I just doubt that we will. Thanks to George, we only have 6000 active troops ready to fight, so who will we outsource this war to?
I hope I’m wrong, but this is just terrible news. Foley’s fricking GONE! Poof! End of story.
DAMNIT! How many times can George snatch electoral victory from defeat BECAUSE of his own incompetence. Hope I’m overreacting to all of this, but I’m afraid not. Just watch the MSM rally around Bush, it’s gonna be Sept. 12th, 2001 all over again.
Raoul
Uh-oh, I’ve missed something. Who is Huckleberry?
Pach, TRex, love you guys on the nightside.
Is your offer open to Congresscritters, or just staffers? Maybe a broader diplomatic offering?
Right on cue, the cable critters are a-twitter about NK. I’m betting on NK for tomorrow and the Rethugs mightily relieved that… Foley? Who’s that? Shiny thing, shiny thing.
Let’s not forget about Denny and Scott; will they be left for the villagers, too?
Yes! Exactly!
these guys! whadda they think they’re doing?
That’s Koufax material.
Raoul Duke @ 16
Raoul, I’m not so sure it happened. Neither Red Puma nor the Geological Survey have anything…and both are robot sites. If it’s detected, it’s put on the map. My tinfoil hat’s telling me, “LOOK! OVER THERE! A SPARKLIE!” And what exactly does it mean, “the military has confirmed”? Would that be Rummy? He’s a lying sack of shit, backed by other liars. So I’m not so sure what to think.
I’m thinking this is all a fake out by North Korea… something must have jiggled just a little and set off an earthquake sensor and it’s just not showing…
and yes, surely knocked all the Foley biz off the tv, didn’t it?
TRex,
Their hypocrises are legion, their lies are their weapons, and muddled moralists like that Columbine dipshit are their footsoldiers. They will use the circular firing squad as their strength, showing how they dispatch their own while the eveil Dems “cover” for theirs. And the MSM, with some exceptions, dutifully plays along. It’s sickening, it’s frustrating, and it’s America as it is right now, a faux-democracy teetering on the abyss of totalitarianism.
Great post, TRex.
Raoul
T-REX!
you areSO FUNNY! you make me laugh out loud regularly!
and boy,do i need to laugh a little.
do you think we’re finally gonna see the end of these vile,fascist greedmongers?
Mommybrain @
17
Lindsay Graham.
TRex,
You used the term “cognitive dissonance” to describe the status of gay Republicans who serve to further the social side of the regressive agenda. I wanted to use that term earlier here when I was thinking of answering somebody who had questioned the decency of outing these people.
There is cognitive dissonance in helping these unhelpful peole keep their covers, and there is a lapse in our morality if we go out of our way to help these people get thrown off the GOP bus (boy, would I hate to be driving behind that vehicle over the next four weeks!), so we should be careful.
That being said, great essay!
Meanwhile, in North Korea, the Bush Doctrine of WTF has reached new heighths…….
Prairie Sunshine, I guess we’re both “paranoid”.
TRex @ 26
Oh, him? Well, of course he is.
Nothing from the Inchon IRIS station, either…
We can pivot to North Korea: we’re ahead on security. NK nuked up because of the Iraq invasion: they see it as security.
Meanwhile, if the Foley thing goes on a slower burn, it will still burn: the networks want more dick measurements. They’re looking hard. Pun intended. Hastert is still there, and every day the Hindenberg is still up there flaming is a good day for Dems.
We haven’t seen the last of this story before the election. Next time people see Hastert giving a statement on the evening news, if it’s not a resignation announcement, they’ll be like, “WTF is HE still doing there!!?”
My first thought upon reading that NK might have had a successful nucular test was that Karl has been working closely with Kim Jong Il and that that is our promised October Surprise.
Trex – great post …
a bit distracted here with NK news … CNN has shifted to CNN international which is sooo much more competent
NK is not, in my mind, trying to help Karl … remember that today (Seoul time) is the day that the PM of S Korea will be voted as Kofi Anan’s replacement … some things happen within their own context, not ours.
I spent a number of my formative years in bible-belt Texas, and my heart hurts for the many people who’ve been damaged by fundamentalists’ anti-gay sentiments.
Sarah Robinson, posting a couple of days ago on the Orcinus blog, had an interesting essay which included one possible reason why conservatives and liberals have such widely divergent views of gay behavior.
I admire her sense of compassion for those still currently within the ranks of “true believers”, and her thoughtful comments on how to reach across the divide.
The link to that particular essay is
http://www.dneiwert.blogspot.c…..t-all.html
LindyH @ 22
OldCoastie @ 23
I hope you all are right, I don’t disagree with you at all. I some some indication that seismic activity was picked-up on DKos, a 3.5 or so on the Richter scale. I don’t put it past Jong Ill (guessing at the spelling) to have exploded one. Bright side, when we can’t respond (on the MSN homepage there’s something about NK troops crossing into the DMZ) because our military has been so depleted, maybe that will wake the MSM the fuck up and they will start doing something completely radical, oh, like maybe asking questions and demanding the answers. Geez, wouldn’t that be nice for once.
Raoul
siun, please let me know what they say? A friend who is former intelligence said, “would not be the first time that the YonHap News Agency just reported something they’d picked up off the Pyongyang wire.” and he’s quite knowlegeable about seismic data and pointed me to all these sites for the data.
TRex,
Great post! LMAO! Past my bed time.
G’Night
Siun @ 34
well now, that’s awfully hard to imagine!
;-)
SK and Japan seem to accept the report though they are confering now … formal word expected later … they seem to think it’s true
OldCoastie … odd, ain’t it!?
What are you saying, Siun, that America isn’t the center of the universe! You sound like a goddamn commie or something! Why do you hate America, Siun?
LOL
Raoul
Siun @ 41
hehehe… and here I thought we were always the center of the universe!
OldCoastie @ 43
Beat you, Coastie. You must be old or something. j/k
Raoul
I’m trying to get BBC World Service radio to see what’s going on in NK. No cable here.
Raoul Duke @ 44
not quite as quick as I used to be, for sure!
Siun @ 40
So the wire service is saying? Have there been any high-level statements, that you are aware of?
Raoul … LOL!
Wowsville. Have been waiting for the ultimate evisceration of these sick twisted fucks by the ultimate intelligent funny real out’n proud kickass boy on the planet.
Rove, Chimpy, every one of you closet fucks astride your castle of faux macho sand, be seriously afraid. Realness and real unafraid humanity is on the phone and the call is COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE…
Trex and friends – bbc radio – click on the World Service here … nice standalong radio stream … my nightly listening
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/
Whoa – very nicely done. I think I like it even better than my long standing invitation for the bastards to meet me on the greenshward at dawn.
OldCoastie @ 23
OC,
Take it from a veteran who spends a lot of time with vets and serving armed forces members, and who lives within range of existing, deployed NK missiles, there is NO way this will help the GOP, especially here in Alaska, where we know our missile defence system is a farce.
And, believe it or not, the networks would rather talk about sex with young people far more than they wish to discuss Armageddon. We get to see Denny waddle out there at least once a day, followed by mushroom cloud images, followed by the latest clusterfuck around Bagdhad. So sad, so disturbing – all this.
We went through the precinct data from last Tuesday’s Borough elections in more detail today. From what we learned, precincts which voted heavily last cycle and included lots of conservatives, had sharp downturns in turnout; precincts with solid middle class and upper middle class professional families were about the same as last time or had slightly larger turnout. Which translated into a HUGE victory for local progressives. Best of all, we got our school board back from the young earth creationists, who were about to go loony on the curriculum.
South Korea was reporting that they have confirmed a siesmic movement, looks like Kim Jong Il has gone nuke-yoo-ler on Chimpy’s watch.
Another pathetic outcome of the Bush Doctrine. “Show the world you are tough” by hamstringing your military and having your Secretary Of Defense tell everyone there is no insurgency and the US is fighting a “handful of dead-enders”. Great work asshats.
Next up, Teheran.
-GSD
The BBC was reporting earlier tonight how the new Japanese Prime Minister Abe had met with the Chinese and both had told North Korea that the test was a no-no. So much for the warning.
I know I just attributed power to Karl that he doesn’t have over the NK thing. It was the cynic in me that thought “how convenient.” I actually think we give Karl too much credit and that has been the dem’s and the left’s failing – buying into a “superman” narrative wrt Rove. Now I worry that Junior will demand to push his own trigger. He is so deluded that he probably thinks God wants him to use our nucular (W’s pronunciation) weapons. Perhaps that is why he let Rummy waste all the manpower in Iraq and Afghanistan. He can argue that we have nothing left but the nukes, so we should use them.
TRex -
this is the only way they save themselves – their only path to redemption…
these nitwits put gay people back in a stupid, terrible position (so what’s new for these guys?)… time for them to have a “come to Jesus” moment…
TRex,funny, as usual, but sad. I hate everything they’ve enabled these last five years. But I feel that people like Ken Mehlman should be able to be just as reactionary in their politics as they are moved to be, without their sexual orientation forcing them into the arms of a party whose principles they do not believe in. By principles, I am referring to things that were regarded as principles before Bush came to Washington. I think it is a nightmare time to be a gay person, and a gay person working in DC for a member of Congress…urgh. Pedophiles and sex predators do not have my sympathy, but I have really mixed feelings about the anti-gay jihad that is ramping up right now. On the one hand, if it helps decent unbigoted Dems to get elected, it’s hard to get passionate about it, hoping it’s temporary, and that Democrats would drag the conversation off of gay marriage, etc. On the other hand, listening to Tony Perkins makes me want to hurl things at the TV. We give something of ourselves up when we threaten others with revealing that which we would not reveal, were we in their shoes.
Phone call, y’all. I might be unavailable for a bit.
Remember “Superman Rove” has his boss at 33% in the polls. Not a stroke of Machiavellian brilliance.
-GSD
Trex, you continue to crack me up with your on-point skewering of these hypocrites.
…
I mean, I guess it was inevitable that the Talibangelicals would be the ones trying to purge the gays from the Republican Party and not the other way around because apparently nothing short of death camps was going to convince you all that working for those lying, murderous fuckers was anything but a fantastic idea. What could possibly go wrong?
Oh, cruel fate, how you mock Mehlman!
congrats, Mr. Teller – sounds like things are clicking right along in your neck of the woods…
Gnome – I think Rove is VERY busy calculating how he can use this to his advantage – so on that front, you are right…
GSD – Booosh will bomb Tehran just to show his dick is the biggest and as some misguided message to Kim (never once will it occur to shrub that the message once again he will only bomb on non-nuclear states)
Gnome de Plume – good comment!
I think the Rove is so brilliant line was always a bad excuse used by dems who didn’t get off their butts and fight back … golly, how could we do anything against that political genius? but this election, we’re showing them that a whole bunch of progressive netroots/grassroots can put the rovian crew on the run quite effectively …
now what W and Rove will do in response – that *is* the scary part
Has anyone done a video cartoon yet called “Driving behind the US House leadership bus”? By the end of this coming week you’ll have to possess the driving skills of Dirty Harry to avoid the falling bodies.
single source, no back-up data…and a suspect source at that. I think we should wait for the statements. And I’m still looking at those geological data sites. Nothing.
Pachacutec @
13
I think that would be me.
Siun -
I am very worried about this. When power is everything that defines you…
I don’t want to sound alarmist, but this could turn into a shooting war VERY quickly. While our military has been nuetered by neo-con fantasists, China’s and SK’s have not been. They could very well attack NK, which would set most of the world on fire, because I have zero doubts that NK will make true their promise to level Seoul with conventional arms and they will be able to fire at Japan at will, even our west Coast isn’t completely safe.
What a mess that only an intellegent president could resolve. Unfortunately for us, we’ve got Bush. Good luck to us all, we need it.
Raoul
David Brock!
acc to CNN Intl – Pentagon cannot confirm yet, takes a few hours, but working on assumption the news is true
so far, pentagon word is no military response
Truly I think Kim Jong Il is a better-adjusted human with a better grasp of reality than Drunky or President Cheney.
Holy freakin Jesus Marie, but there it is.
Oh and TRex, you forgot the part where Ken Mehlman is always Miss Iowa.
That was one of your best.
Lindy, check this out.
-GSD
I mis-stated above that Alaska is the only state in range of deployed NK rockets. That was inaccurate to the extent that their rockets could also hit Hawaii if they possessed navigational instrumentation which they don’t. Alaska is hard to miss.
They’re a good five to ten years away from a viable nuclear IRBM, but they’re on the verge of what they want – a way to keep us from invading should we ever find ourselves unstuck from the current morasses.
Raoul – I am hoping the South Koreans will be wise – they have been trying to find a better relationship with NK outside of our nonsense … and from what I’ve heard, SK does not have the ability to win in a fight with NK.
China has been quite clear that they do not want a NK nuke but whether they are ready to turn on their ally at this point … who knows?
Swordswoman @
35
Swordswoman, here’s how to include a link.
First, copy only the part of the link that’s after the http://
(so, usually, the www. part.)
Then, click on LINK up there at the top of the comment box.
Enter the www etc that you’ve copied. Click OK.
Then when it asks you for URL name, put Orcinus or whatever name or words you want. Click OK.
I think that should help, i may have missed a step.
Jane Hamsher @ 70
Miss “I-da-ho.”
I couldn’t remember that to save my life when I was writing this.
Kenny’s going to get his own post eventually.
Maybe only a semi-lurker at this point-my 4th post? And this ol former farm girl is past the age of sexy but i can still holla. And after the MN State Fair my little grandson was in awe of the accuracy of my chicken, pig, and cow imitations *modest blush*
Late-nite snark is my required nightcap.
This Cheney warfuck admin will do something between now and 11/7, bank on it.
I almost think Kim is on their payroll just like Osama.
I don’t think anyone wants to just start a shooting war with North Korea over this.
This will push the Chinese into perhaps forcing North Korea to the table and it will push the US to do the same.
This will certainly push North Korea into further pariah status though.
What a mess.
Iraq is dissolving into a Hobbesian nightmare. Russia is threatening to go to war with Georgia and they have begun an ethnic cleansing campaign in Russia to force out the Georgians….
Oh and Darfur is melting down too as well as Afghanistan…..
Time to send the newly minted USS Chimpandwimp into stormy seas.
-GSD
Ed*ard Teller @ 62
I have always envisioned this bus as a double decker so they can throw their own from the top deck.
ET – Great news about the school board. Rural Arkansas is consistently losing ground to the fundies in this particular area.
Siun @ 73
I agree, SK will not attack NK by itself, and it has been far more condusive to direct talks than has Bush the Idiot. For all the mocking of NK as backwards and such, they have a strong army who is waiting for the excuse to attack SK, and unless we use the biggies, there really isn’t jack shit that we can do about it if they do, we have no Army left. I think more countries will be level-headed, even ours, that I am usually willing to grant. But the pro-war chorus in this country is going to be ramped up again, what else can the republicans run on?
Raoul
NewDealFarmGrrrlll – welcome aboard!
I miss going to good state fairs … used to be a favorite pastime of mine in New England.
Damn, Trex, you captured it perfectly with that sentence. They have the chance now to use their knowledge for good, if they choose to. We’ll welcome them and hear them out.
Luckily you didn’t include Drudge in this effort. I say no to Gannon/Guckert too, unless he has WH orgy pics. Not that I want to see anything like that, but he’d have to offer a LOT to get any kind of deal.
YO! I’m sexy as the day is long
GSD – Someone needs to tell TRex that the Russians are coming after him in Georgia! ;-)
Raoul Duke @ 66
We are stuck. No extra naval or Air Force assets in SK. All the Alaska and Hawaii air and ground units which have been cross-trained to deploy to SK are in Iraq or are played out.
Seoul is a 5 million-person hostage 25 miles from massive artillery batteries. The NK military is a rusting relic of what it was 15 years ago, and I doubt their military leadership is less rational than ours. I suppose that might not sound very reassuring, though.
I agree with somebody above who pointed to this as possibly being local political muscle flexing on the verge of the UN SecGen vote. Korea is, after all, the longest-lasting UN war. It is still going on.
Sean-Paul Kelly has some good background material linked via this post which he just put up (and inc. a Billmon link)
http://agonist.org/sean_paul_k…..ed_failure
GSD @ 71
uh-oh… that’s brand new…
Sharkbabe @ 83
Testify, girl!
Raoul,
I used to work with a retired Sargeant-Major, he always feared North Korea’s military. Said they were tough and mean and he never, ever wanted to see them back in action against the US.
God knows what the Whitehouse is up to though. I keep forgetting that logic never dictates their reactions.
-GSD
GSD @ 71
Thanks for the link. That just got posted. It ingests data from the IRIS network…it’s robot too.
The traditional tales about selling one’s soul to the devil all follow a similar path: the devil pays for the soul with wordly riches and fortune, but seven years later comes to collect and the person attached to that soul.
It’s only been 6 years that Bush has been in office, but if you throw in the campaigning leading up to to that election: voila!
Gay Republicans sold their souls years ago, even helping to enact homophobic legislation, and the devil is getting his due.
Metaphorically or not, who knows?
Novak’s Monday column, all about Hastert being unable to help GOP races in the coming weeks. Notes that he will be the host of the event with Bush this Thursday in Chicago, and that is one event he won’t cancel.
http://www.townhall.com/Column…..s_survival
Of Denny’s future plans, Novak writes:
“It’s really moot,” one of Hastert’s most severe Republican critics (who would not be identified) told me. “We are sure to lose the House, and Denny never would want to be minority leader.”
God will whisper sweet nothings in Dubya’s ear… Then Unka Dick will tell Dubya what God said. I’m not worried. What, me worry?GSD @ 78
I checked your link. Seems a 4.2 earthquake went off up in the northern no-mans land of NK. Very interesting, indeed.
ET – I’d suspect they’d use the Navy for NK… they spend a lot of time being deployed off their coast with plenty of our ships stationed in Japan…
Ed*ard Teller, I’m glad to hear about your recent election turnout. Gives me hope for the rest of the country.
goodbye foley scandle. gone. as of three hours ago.
Sharkbabe @ 77
This past week has changed my thinking. I do believe, Sharkbabe, that the Bushista regime is overwhelmed past the point of being able to merely react between now and the election. I am only worried that they will – once the overwhelming nature of their upcoming political disaster becomes more apparent – find a way to cancel the elections. All it would take would be random bits of anthrax at the storage facilities of the voting machines for four or five heavily populated states. Not much anthrax, possibly less than the shadow government used last time.
GSD @ 89
That’s kinda my point. Look how we have struggled in Iraq against what was about 4 divisions of their most elite troops. Well, NK probably has 40 divisions (I don’t know the actual numbers of dvs., it’s about a million soldiers) and the political will to use them. We get (justifiably) upset at 3000 KIA in Iraq, the NK’s would laugh at such a paltry figure. They’d lose 250,000 men without even thinking about it. Unless we’re really serious, we’d better think long and hard about war with NK.
Raoul
China’s Xinhua has barely a mention of the reported test.
South Korea reacts.
From Yahoo:
“South Korean intelligence officials said the seismic wave had been detected in North Hamkyung province, according to South Korea’s Yonhap news agency. It said the test was conducted at 10:36 a.m. (9:36 p.m. EDT Sunday) in Hwaderi near Kilju city on the northeast coast, citing defense officials.”
Yahoo’s reporting confirms the reported seismic location.
-GSD
OldCoastie @ 43
Leela: Look, I know there are no car chases, but this is important. One of these two men will become president of the world.
Fry: What do we care? We live in the United States.
Leela: The United States is part of the world.
Fry: Wow, I have been gone a long time.
Raoul Duke @ 98
Iraq would look sunny in comparison.
Eegads.
-GSD
Thanks for the welcome, Siun! You are one of the many fdl folk i admire.
I miss going to good state fairs also (probably a MN lynch mob coming down the street at that statement). I might go to Iowa’s one of these years.
Fond childhood and young adult memories of hanging out at the county fair Dem booth as my folks were active volunteers. Even decades ago the Repug booth was staffed by grim, pursed-mouth types. The Democrats booth always had laughter, compassion, and witty, intelligent conversations going on. No wonder I like lurking at FDL!
TheOtherWA @ 95
I’m more concerned about the ground war in the precincts over the next four weeks than I am about a ground war in Korea. I’ve got a lot of Korean friends. I’ll be seeing some on Tuesday, and they love to talk about this type of stuff, though we usually talk about music, growing food and cooking.
Where is Jimmy Carter? Get Carter on the NK situation now.
Eureka Dreams
Eureka Springs, AR @ 104
you ARE dreamin’! You don’t think this admin would actually send a competent and talented person, do you?
NewDealFarmGrrrlll @ 102
Yes, this is THE place to be, NewDeal, it has a real community feel to it. Thanks for delurking and joining in, we always need another voice in the conversation. Welcome!!!
Raoul
RE: the Whitehouse response to NK – I think their strategy will be all about what they think they can sell. Recent attention to Rummy’s incompetence (via Woodward’s book)and the increasingly accepted view that Iraq war is a disasterous failure will make it tough for the country to support any military action as long as he’s running the show. And they can’t at this point show him the door. They just can’t sell it. (I hope, anyway.)
rove is aiming to keep the house by one seat. he will enjoin three major themes to engender such:
1 – a real or manufactured military threat. (i thought it would be iran. its NK.)
2 – steadily dropping the price at the pump.
3 – the capture of osama. they’ll blow the hell out of some cave and claim the DNA tests will take months, yet we’re sure it’s him.
what say pelosi?
Sharkbabe @ 49
BRAVO – Commander Codpiece should be very afraid.
The issue is not just whether or not Hastert and the Republican leadership in Congress knew. I’m interested in what did Chimpy and KKKarl know, and when did they know it? And who told the FBI not to investigate?
I don’t think it’s coincidental that Chimpy refuses to throw Hastert under the bus.
Margot at 74: thank you for the link information! I laboriously typed the whole thing in there and hoped for the best. I’ll save your instructions for future use.
Leapfrogging back to (and then over) the NK topic…
I’m probably in the eccentric minority, but I miss Dean Acheson. And his employer. Not their actions re: North Korea, necessarily, but oh to have people of integrity in the highest reaches of our government.
Anyone who has a copy of “Plain Speaking”, check out all the bits featuring Acheson if you’d like your posture to improve spontaneously. I don’t think slumping — physically, mentally, or emotionally — could ever have been possible in his presence.
Best of all, he had a sense of humor and knew how to laugh at himself. I’ve been missing that from our corridors of power lately too.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 104
OldCoastie @ 105
C’mon, Bush can’t even SPELL “Carter”, let alone be wise enough to get him on it. Naw, our only hope is that Asia can work it out itself, we’ll be zero help as long as Bush is in.
Raoul
According to Noam Chomsky, the US only attacks defenseless nations or “rogue states”. Chomsky is apparently correct. Jung Il has shown that he is not defenseless, therefore, NK should be safe from the US. China won’t move without US approval. Jung Il made the test on his own soil underground. Eff the Chinese.
We shall be bombarded with right wing cable news of this event for two weeks. Stock Market might dip. Fear level of humanoid red staters will rise as will Dubya’s poll numbers after Cowboy Speech coming soon.
It’s 10:00 p.m. (pst), do you know where your democracy is?
Raoul
I just spent the weekend visiting my mother in the Palm Springs area. This morning, I was purusing their local paper (rather provincial — mostly wire stories) but there was a cover page story about local donations to the GOP, candidates and yes, Dems. What was so striking was the VAST difference in area contributions to the RNC versus the DNC — I don’t have the figures in front of me but it was startling (say $250K versus $15K). I KNOW Palm Springs is teeming with gay men. Are the Dems overlooking a great source of donations and campaign contribution? Are the older men Log Cabin Repubs?????
It made me want to do something, but I don’t know exactly what. Suggestions?
Foley & Kolbe AZ-08 leading story on the evening news here in AZ…. it still has legs here… so far it is Lettice recall the next story…
CNN Intl reporting that China received a 20 minute warning from NK and China then called UK, SK, Japan
and with that, I’m off to get some sleep … and listen to bbc
g’nite to the 21st Century HST TREX!!! and to all late niters everywhere
Good night, Siun
overdecorated
as in
“No matter that you are arrayed as high up into your party’s power structure as the eye can see (and beyond!). The same rock-throwing villagers who would come after all of us Reality-Based Gays are now mounting up the road to your (terribly expensive, overdecorated) castle, lighting their torches and waving their pitchforks high in the air.”
thank you
that was the sorbet that cleared my palate of the image of Foley’s 54 year old legs in the air.
eeeeewwwwwwww
gnite Old Coastie … from the center of the universe!
Lemon yellow siun
g’nite hackworth!
The Foley story won’t completely disappear, but this NK situation will dampen it a bit. Remember, the NK story broke pretty late, the evening papers will be a better indication of the NK’s story overall impact.
With that, I’ll probably be scooting along. Take care everyone and I’ll try to come back for more snark mannana. G’ night and don’t lose faith, I know I feel a lot better now than I did when I first posted, it’s almost like psychotherapy posting on here, it levels me out! :)
Raoul
g’ night, Raoul
Good night, Siun, thanks for the viewpoints and sleep well.
Raoul
Goodnight y’all.
The Bush Borg is probably pleading with North Korea to g’head and test nukes. That, they think, will drive scared voters to the Repubs as the “party of strength.” Ha! They don’t know “it’s too late baby, now, it’s too late.” Or, to paraphrase another famous ditty on the new message from the electorate to the Repubs: “We used to love you, but it’s all over now…”
OldCoastie @ 123
Vous assi, mon ami. Sorry, just had to drive the Regressives a little crazy with some French! LOL
Raoul
aussi? Sorry for the spelling error.
Raoul
t-rex – on point as always, lmao but you are the one to prick those bastards [pardon the pun]. and n.korea has restarted the nuke race – well here we go again off to the races!! i begin my day with FDL and close my evenings in the same manner.
thanks Raoul.
As other lurkers have said, i am usually content to *listen* as so many articulate folk have said what i wanted to say. Know that the intelligent, informed posts and discussions that take place in this community are like the earthquake that sets off a tsunami. FDL has given me many a potent argument and newslink to pass along to friends, family, and coworkers.
It’s also, in a darkly humorous way, confirming my sanity. I’m not the only one who sees these problems, such as the discussion tonight re NK.
And on a local note, I hope Wetterling kicks Bachmann’s homophobic butt. Things like the Wed. and Saturday interviews and ActBlue connection are really great.
Hundreds of Iraqi Police poisoned
http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl…..179970.htm
Well you can tell that sex is more important than NK… in the Evening news lineup it was Foley Kolbe knowing about the IM’s, clearly stating it was 2000 which was 5 years before the current spin…. E.coli lettice, bullies on hiking trails and then the NK testing….
South Korea’s market a little rattled.
-GSD
US markets will be closed tomorrow….
Just a driveby on my way to bed. One Repbulican representative on BBC (Rohrback sp?) has already blamed any North Korean test on Clinton. Clinton is like God for Republicans. If he didn’t exist they would have to invent him.
TRex @
75
I-da-ho is better.
Hugh @ 134
That is very quotable, Hugh.
Back on topic, TRex.
I had a sport coat just like the one Monty Hall is wearing in the photo at the top. I bought it in late 1964 to try to impress a girlfriend who had gone to college during my senior year in HS. The coat was stolen in 1968 out of a VW van in Laramie, Wyoming while I was on my way from Middletown, California to Boston.
Never missed it very much……
So…as others have mentioned – doesn’t this put the “dire” threat of Iran having the capacity to make nuclear weapons in three years in a rather different light?
What are they going to say about North Korea? After all, this happened on their watch. They’ve been warned that North Korea was a far bigger threat than Iraq and they took their eye off the ball – as usual.
I don’t put anything past their twisted Machiavelian minds, but I don’t see how this disaster is going to help them out in the 2006 election. Yeah, the world is a dangerous place – always has been. That’s why we need intelligent, competent folks in the White House, Pentagon, Congress. Not total F*ck ups like the current leadership.
Plus – this brings the focus back to Iraq and how their incompetence there has impacted the United States’ ability to deal with real threats around the world. (And the sex scandal will continue to drip, drip, drip. It’s not going away any time soon.)
I just don’t see how this disaster is going to work in their favor. Is Condi going to say – “Who could have predicted that North Korea would take the know-how given to them by our friends the Pakistanis and then developed their own nuclear bomb”?
Hey TRex can we have a photo of you with the t-shirt that says “I’m Internet Famous”?
Congressman Roherbacher (sp?) on BBC now saying the Clinton administration is at fault for allowing this (NK nuke) to happen and thankfully we have missile defenses for just this type of situation. He manages to put down all of the nay-sayers who didn’t want missile defense in the first place, they will have to rethink etc. etc.
Hugh @ 134
Rohrbacher is an idiot from just up the road from here…
and you are exactly right about Clinton being like God for Republicans…
Ed 97 – that last London hair gel ridiculousness proves that nothing even approaching an actual attack is needed. The bullshit insanity is complete. Osama fucking rules this nation totally.
Yes we can and should and will change this. But damn, talk about pushing a rock up a hill of ignorance and television. It really does help that the fascisti are exposing themselves at a level even my cat Zippy can grasp.
I hope no one is getting too excited about NK. First, they have no missiles capable of hitting the US (even the Taepo-dong II tested recently wouldn’t have been able to reach any part of the US, even if it hadn’t failed thirty-eight seconds into launch).
Second, they’ve had the Bushies poking them in the chest and prodding them for six years, and we’ve been listening to them say they have nuclear weapons for around eighteen months. If the seismic data shows a nuclear test (and analysis of the wave forms can prove that–nuclear weapons have distinctive seismic signatures), all they’ve confirmed is that they’re telling the truth.
Despite the handwringing, they aren’t going to be using them on anyone unless provoked. As with every country that has them, they know someone else can obliterate them, and contrary to public opinion in this country, the North Koreans aren’t thoroughly insane. This is a great way for them to tell the Bushies to back off.
If Junior decides this is a great time to use nuclear weapons on someone, who’s the craziest of the pair? Him or Kim Jong Il? Annihilate three million people in Pyongyang for something we did with great regularity for almost fifty years?
In fact, this changes the situation very little. Even with domestic politics, the Democrats could seize this as an example of the Bushies’ failure to engage and seek peaceful resolution of problems (they won’t, of course). They could say that threatening the entire world hasn’t worked that well, has it?, and now we have another nuclear-armed enemy to worry about because the Bushies would rather have John Bolton threaten them.
What can be said with some truth is that nothing Bush and his people said or did made the situation better. There will lots of spin about this tomorrow. But, the truth is still the truth. Democrats would be advised to speak it. :)
Everything is always spun as benefitting the Republicans.
No one could have known North Korea would test a nuke.
Damn that Bill Clinton!
-GSD
And a little something to sleep on:
Date of post is Oct 1, more at GlobalResearch.ca NK is a whole lot closer than the Persian Gulf.
Boy if you look over the posts we’ve had in the past 24 hours we have a damn good blog (I’m grandfathering in Pach’s Hellmouth post).
Hi TRex.
Don’t foreget, October 11 is National Coming Out Day! More October Surprises?
Jane Hamsher @
146
We are the shizzle.
Hi Jane! Great blog you got here.
American politics should have been released
from the silliness of prudish and pointless
sexual repression and keep-it-hidden mores a
long,long time ago. It surely was in order
after WW2 to release Americans from the last
grasps of 19th and early 20th century sexual
closeting and hide-a-way practices.
Sadly such enlightenment did not occur and
we see the wreckage again this week falling
down on DC players. It is quite incredible to
think that somehow GOP gays thought this would
not fall on top of them. After the last few
years of GOP DOMA and exclusion lawmaking one
would have thought GOP gays would have seen the
light and started clicking their heels three
times. Strangely enough they chose not to.
For those of us who understood that the GOP
was playing with fire stoking up phoney baloney
morality acts it is not surprising to see the
fire now out of control. The GOP addiction to
some very bad political strategy led to last
weeks debacle. One can only wonder that it was
not contained until sometime in early 2007 when
it would have not upset GOP electioneering.
Being gay I am not happy to see the gutter
politics and venom laden attacks. Personally
I know we gays are always never far from the
worst of social and political dispositions.
I agree with T-rex that GOP gays need to
see the pitchfork armed mob coming and find
safe refuge. The Democratic Party is hardly a
bastion of all that is good and right but it
surely is several clicks of your heels ahead
of the GOP. There is no excuse for Foley’s very
poor judgement and abuse of position. He has
no defense to mount. But being gay is not the
point of his error any more than being hetero
was Wilbur Mills or Bob Packwoods error.
Americans need to grow up and begin to see
that diversity and sexuality expression are
strenghts. The military should get pass the
silly dont ask/dont tell thinking. And DC needs
to get pass pointless sexual hide-a-waying.
This 21st century will be better for all
Americans if and when that happens.
HotFlash @ 145
Hotflash – I wouldn’t get too excited about it… we always keep a couple of carrier strike groups in the Gulf – everything I read in that is typical, ordinary, every day Navy stuff… someone was making a great big deal about the Coast Guard going over and that is also much more typical these days…
RUMSFELD HELPED SELL NK THEIR NUCLEAR REACTORS:
By Richard Behar Research Associate Brenda Cherry
May 12, 2003
(FORTUNE Magazine) – Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld rarely keeps his opinions to himself. He tends not to compromise with his enemies. And he clearly disdains the communist regime in North Korea. So it’s surprising that there is no clear public record of his views on the controversial 1994 deal in which the U.S. agreed to provide North Korea with two light-water nuclear reactors in exchange for Pyongyang ending its nuclear weapons program. What’s even more surprising about Rumsfeld’s silence is that he sat on the board of the company that won a $200 million contract to provide the design and key components for the reactors.
The company is Zurich-based engineering giant ABB, which signed the contract in early 2000, well before Rumsfeld gave up his board seat and joined the Bush administration. Rumsfeld, the only American director on the ABB board from 1990 to early 2001, has never acknowledged that he knew the company was competing for the nuclear contract.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines…../index.htm
It’s a sad state of affairs when I feel anxiety because of how the nut running my government responds to the actions of a nut running another government.
But then it’s also a sad state of affairs when I feel anxiety that some of my fellow citizens will vote to support our nut’s henchmen in reaction to foreign nut’s actions.
On that happy note, I bid you good night.
Kinda OT, but CBS radio was replaying this exchange from Face The Nation over and over this afternoon, and it made me snicker so much that I had to find it once they put the transcript up and share. Please, GOP, keep sending Rep. LaHood out to defend you!
Hee hee!
well, now, Edward Teller, that is very interesting information! imagine – Dumsfeld shaking hands with his buddy, Saddam and now, it turns out, selling nuclear technology to the North Koreans…
wonder if the MSM will pick up on this point? I think Dumsfeld needs his security clearances reviewed…
Jane—it is a pretty fine little corner of blogtopia, ain’t it?
ET—I think your stolen coat ended up on a Goodwill rack in St.Paul, MN where I bought it for $2 in the early 70’s.
http://downwithtyranny.blogspo…..andal.html
from DWT: ~~~This article reads to me as though Kolbe was looking to get the information out before it landed on his head. I’ve heard from gay men in Tucson that he was quite the predator when it came to young men (although no one has told me “underage young men.”) The Post has been interviewing pages and ex-pages since the Foley scandal and cover-up broke and Weisman reports that “multiple pages identified Kolbe as a close friend and personal confidante who was one of the only members of Congress to take any interest in them” and he satyed in touch with some after they left the program. brringgggg, brrringggggggg, brrringgggggg~~~
off topic…..ET, over at americablog, he has a usage map that shows where his readers are coming from. But Alaska is not represented at all…More people in Africa read this than in Alaska? Why not go over and put Alaska on the map?
I have a map fetish and would love to see a similar one for FDL.
Ed*ard Teller @ 152
By now, it’s just not news. In fact, ABB was not selling NK reactors–they were providing material help, yes, but you don’t build two light water reactors for $200 million. ABB was supplying engineering and planning help.
Beyond that, these reactors have yet to have been built–they actually were proposed by Jimmy Carter in the early `90s as a means of keeping NK from producing weapons fuel, providing needed electricity and staying on the NNPT protocol. The Bushies helped put the kibosh on this program when they came into office (as well as reimposing embargoes on heavy fuel oil which NK needed for power generation).
I think the Trilateral group is running all of them. The one with the most $$$ (trilateral group) wins.
Jane Hamsher @ 147
I’m not nearly the Jane Hamsher worshipper some here are, but you, Christy, Pach, TRex, Jen, Howie, Taylor, Siun – all deserve more genuine praise than you’ll probably ever get. You guys are the opposite of what got Jon Stewart to ask those two asshats “Why do you hate America?”
Someday, Jane, a book called “How We Saved America” will come out. If you don’t write it, I’m sure you’ll be asked to do the forward.
ATTACK!
Canvass, Go door to door, doggies!
this whole bruhaha reminds me of my reaction when my best lover left me.
“I didn’t want to be with you anyway!”
I don’t really think that either the Born Again Judgmentarians or the Cronyistas really care about the Closeted Republicans. I think they were just an easy and eager lay.
The Judgmentarians were all bragadocious about how they “won” the last election for Bush. I don’t think they really did. I think it was election fraud, plain and simple. Then, as soon as the polls showed that the Republicans were going to have a rough go of it this time, the Judgmentarians started to say: “Well…the Republicans didn’t give us the lay we wanted, so we’re going to stay home this time. So there!” They have been positioning themselves to take credit for this loss for a long, long time. This Foley thing fit right in with what they were already doing.
The truth is, the Republicans aren’t really that interested in what the Judgmentarians have to say. They just want them to put out and then go away. And the Judgmentarians are starting to get hip to this fact…oops.
The truth is, the Republican powers that be only care about money, power, and who’s going to put out to get it. And the judgmentarians are starting to figure that out. This whole bruhaha gives them a very visible lens to focus their “power” and to take credit for the Republican loss. It makes them seem “necessary” to the coalition. Or at least they can try to make that argument.
The truth is, the power brokers don’t really care about who is gay or not. That’s why they didn’t worry about Foley…he was useful.
As soon as the closeted Republicans figure out that they are expendable to the party, maybe they will take you up on your offer.
Nothing hurts more than your lover being indifferent to your love. Better to be hated than ignored.
When they are cast out
Then they can say:
“I didn’t want to be with you anyway!”
and we can welcome them to our loving arms and say to them:
“You matter to us
now gimme the dirt”
heart y’all beautifuls – sweet dreams – lata
‘night, Sharkbabe
RBG @ 157
America really is one big small town when you don’t hate it, eh, RBG?
I think Jane has a fuckin’ good blog.
Even if it is staffed with girls and gays.
oh and hotflash – marry me, ok?
Old Coastie at 151 — that’s good news, although I am still cheesed that a Cdn sub is part of it. Harper is doing lots of damage even with a minority govt. We should *not* be playing war games with the US, and besides, the stupid thing will probably sink all by itself.
shootthatarrow>>> at 150 and TRex, too — gay Republicans, black Republicans, female Republicans, poor Republicans, these are all mysterious to me. Does it has something to do with the repression angle, the lure of forbidden pleasure? My very German friend Otto has more than once commented, “What can you expect from a country that was founded by every kook and religious nut in Europe?”
watching CNN – I’m thinking tomorrow the newscasters won’t sound quite so excited…
night back at ya Coastie, U rock
ok, seriously going to bed
separated at birth?
Cokie Roberts and David Bowie
have they ever been seen in the same room together?
Recent savory US Admin quotes from the Boston Herald on NK’s nukie stuff:
The ol’ Junya “Bring It On!” macho bluff-shite didn’t seem to work for him, so Amb. Hill, why ever did you think it would work for you (you slimy little weasel turdlette)?
if I had to guess, Hotflash, I’d say the Canadian sub prolley has a similar “signature” to an Iranian sub and the Navy needs to get hip to the sound… so they can learn to identify and track…
as scary as that seems, we DO want to be prepared for what might meet us there… the last thing we need is US ships getting sunk in the Gulf…
One would assume the govt has magnetic sensors akin to that in the May 1996 Scientific American’s Ameteur Scientist column, only bigger and more adept at differentiating the electromagnetic pulse from of a TND from other noise. They would know pretty much immediately. This given, saying ‘we don’t know’ for a few days, when we actually do would help scare the populace again, sending them back to the evil teat. Our government at work!
Bush’s diplomacy is not geared up for a response to the NK atomic test. NK knows that our cowboy in chief has committed his “bring it on” force to the desert sands. Not enough punch is left to take on the North Koreans. Yet according to cowboy diplomacy, there is no substitute for physical force. So the only response to this fiasco will be that Bush pretends it didn’t happen, hoping that later on, he could challenge NK to a duel.
montag @ #159,
You’re correct. Rumsfeld’s associates didn’t sell the NKs reactors they sold WMD-related technology to a hostile power. Sorry about my misleading header.
Irregardless of what ABB and Rumsfeld might have to say about this, that is what happened, especially if you apply the standards to that deal that the current US government is applying to the way Iranian nuclear technology is progressing.
somenobody @ 174
there is something fishy about all this… why did it take so long for the “earthquake spot” to show up on the USGS site? seems like most of ‘em post within an hour… didn’t NK do the nuke test this morning or afternoon our time today?
Nuclear weapons are just like JS Bach’s use of the pinky in keyboard technique or Jimi Hendrix’s use of distortion to create solo guitar polyphony. Once the genie is out of the bottle, you can’t put it back in.
In Bush lingo, that horse has left the barn.
OldCoastie @ 173
I knew it! I always knew Canada was part of the US! Hah!
Martha, you lost that bet, so get your keister up out of that recliner and get me another brew!
OldCoastie @ 177
Nah, twas just a couple of hours ago – 09:35:27 PM EDT.
ET- I always appreciate your comments here. Quick take on my part- the NK thing is a bunch of strutting and stomping- which may sound like I am minimizing the real effects of nuclear weapons- which I am not. But, more like a “pay attention to us” thing. Because Bush gave the go-ahead to Pakistan, etc. Thoughts? Hope you understand my quick thoughts.
OldCoastie, The ones out here in L.A. show up within a minute, to an half hour, depending on the site. The supposed test occured at 18:30 ish PDT, I think. I am not familiar with the seismic activity of the area in question, but ones that small happen fairly frequently where I live. With the distance of sensors from the site, it may be more difficult to resolve, but I am fairly sure this is automated.
Agreed, VG. Posturing.
It will come to a great deal of hissing and flapping like geese, then over.
Valley Girl @
182
Thanks, VG! William F. Buckley said it best way back when:
“Ask Hirohito what the definition of deterrance is?”
China is PISSED.
Sharkbabe @ 167
Sharkbabe @ 170
Will you look at that, I get a proposal and the proposor goes to bed before I get a chance to accept. Sheez.
Sleep tight, Sharkbabe.
Valley Girl @ 182
Junya and Darth have basically 2 options:
1. Go bat-shit-crazy and nuke NK’s nukes.
2. Wave their hands a lot and go “harumph”.
In spite of the daily derangement exhibited by our Fearful Leader, I’m placing my bet on the “waving of hands”.
The JCS ain’t real interested in playing nuclear chicken.
jammie time – night, pups!
local news lead – firey car crash, nukes up soon…
Is China being pissed a good thing or a bad thing?
Brilliant writing, TRex.
IMHO Jeff Gannon/Guckert holds the master key to the DC closets.
If I were a sweet young dude, He’s the one with whom I’d take one for the team.
TheOtherWA @
82
Reminds me of the old “Onion” headline: “North Korea Wondering What It Has to Do to Attract Attention of US Military”.
If you think this is going to knock the Foley story off the news, you’re giving Americans a lot more credit then they deserve. Most Americans can’t find North Korea on a map. All they know is that it’s thousands of miles away. There aren’t even any blond white women there. The India and Pakistan nukes didn’t really capture the attention of the American public. (Pakistan. Where Osama bin what’s-his-name is hiding.) And it doesn’t sound like there’s going to be any cool pictures to put on the news, either. Boring!
Suzanne @ 190
It’s an…interesting thing. A loss of face for them. China was NoKo’s only protector and friend at the Security Council table.
So, it’s good for world peace that the Chinese aren’t saying, “Yeah, they did it! We got nukes, too! You bitchez want some?”
My campaign to force PHILIP ZELIKOW TO RESIGN
IMMEDIATELY has been helped by Woodward. I have been calling
him Dr. Evil. If I am discovered to miss me, blog
me at Gauntanomo Cuba
If you believe what Bob Woodward wrote on page 52, of “STATE OF DENIAL”,
describing July 10, 2001. “Philip Zelikow… knew something about the July 10 meeting. Indeed, Tenet and Black had demanded action that day, but it was not clear to Zelikow what immediate action really would have meant. The strategic warning Tenet and Black gave lacked details. When? Where? How?”
This can be quickly summarized. Zelikow knew about Tenet’s plans to kill Ben Ladin and had them stopped. Tenet had not explained when, where and how to kill Bin Laden. He knew about Al Qaeda’s plans to fly planes into buildings and did not tell anyone in 2001 which would have prevented the attack. As Director of the 9/11 Commission, he concealed the July 10 meeting. He concealed the testimony of the Director of the CIA but he was there as Tenet testified before the Commission. He lied when he said no witness had drawn attention to the meeting because it was a huge thing and Tenet was a witness. He lied when he said it was plausible that the meeting had occurred, because he was certain the meeting had occurred. He lied when he said Tenet and Black could not remember what transpired in meetings, because it has not been shown that Zelikow can read minds. Plus they had Power Point and there is no evidence Zelikow could even use Microsoft Internet Explorer. To quote Doonesbury, guilty, guilty, guilty
Suzanne @
190
The American who probably could answer that question best died in the early ’60s. But Douglas MacArthur warned Kennedy to avoid a land war in Asia. W’s involved in two already.
I strongly suspect Fordham will see the light and come over the Blue Side. Maybe Trandahl, too.
Now can someone tell me why the Kolbe story is coming out now? He’s been sitting on this for a week. So we’ve gone from “Nobody knew” to “Well, Kolbe knew”. Maybe he’s hoping to be a lightning rod. He sure as hell deserves to be one. He needs to have his ass expelled from the House. I know he’s “retiring”, but they need to make damn sure that the door whacks him in the ass on the way out.
TRex @ 193
Sounds like a good thing to me. China’s North Korea’s biggest enabler. If they lose China, they’ve got…well, nobody. They’re pretty much stuck trying to ally themselves with Cuba.
History
Since its inception in 1947, the Doomsday Clock has signified the level of threat posed by nuclear weapons and other changing factors in international security.
Timeline
As the state of international security has changed, the Doomsday Clock has been moved 18 times to reflect the danger level of the period.
Current Time
The Doomsday Clock was last moved on February 27, 2002 and currently stands at seven minutes to midnight.
The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientist’s clock will probably move tomorrow for the first time in almost five years.
http://www.thebulletin.org/index.htm
Mad Dogs @ 180
Yeah, once we’ve shipped out all our oil, natural gas, and water, we’ll make a great parking lot for the coast-to-coast WalMart.
OK, my resident naval buff reports that the Victoria class subs we bought two years ago from Britain(the Brits called them Upholders), are small, quiet hunter-killer subs and very like the Russian-made kilo-class subs that Iran has 3 of.
Damn nice place you have here, Jane Hamsher.
And ET, I wanna say that the election results you’ve shared from Alaska have been very heartening. Your excitement just lights up my screen when I read your comments about the recent victories up there. A harbinger, we all hope.
Swell post, TRex, it just makes me sad that these self-haters won’t take you up on your offer. In which case, they’re simply Vichy, every one.
Remember, all:
North Korea went nuke-u-lar on W’s watch.
Just like 9/11 happened on his watch.
Ed*ard Teller @
198
I HATE THAT CLOCK!!
I have been having nightmares about that goddamn clock since I was nine years old.
This will not go away easily. From the Monday WaPO:
A spokeswoman for Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz.) confirmed yesterday that a former page showed the congressman Internet messages that had made the youth feel uncomfortable with the direction Foley (R-Fla.) was taking their e-mail relationship. Last week, when the Foley matter erupted, a Kolbe staff member suggested to the former page that he take the matter to the clerk of the House, Karen Haas, said Kolbe’s press secretary, Korenna Cline.
The revelation pushes back by at least five years the date when a member of Congress has acknowledged learning of Foley’s behavior with former pages. A timeline issued by House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) suggested that the first lawmakers to know, Rep. John M. Shimkus (R-Ill.), the chairman of the House Page Board, and Rep. Rodney Alexander (R-La.), became aware of “over-friendly” e-mails only last fall. It also expands the universe of players in the drama beyond members, either in leadership or on the page board.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..components
Sorry to be a spoiler, but this is probably why the gay repubs will stay put. They’ve probably got stuff on the evangelicals as well, but no purge will happen unless somebody is caught in bed with a 16 year old or a congressman or both. Gay repubs aren’t the first to sell out for power and they won’t be the last either.
TRex, @ #201
me too. Hard to explain to some of the younger dinos and pups. As if asteroids and comets don’t make any sauropod nervous enough!
I had a dream that I was feverishly trying to push the doomsday clock away from midnight. The hand was made of cold black iron and the ticking was really slow and deep. I pushed and pushed until the hand of the clock started cutting into my hands, and then it was all slick with blood. And then deep from within its bowels, it said, “…TICK…”
And I woke up.
Funny, that was about six months before my parents got divorced.
TRex @ 201
As well you should. Now, imagine those nightmares being on a SAC base during the Cuban missile crisis….
Swordswoman at 110,
You mentioned “Plain Speaking.” Do you remember Edwin Newman’s “A Civil Tongue”? I love that book.
You’ll do fine with the copy and paste and link making. Heck, I learned how!
Night…
g’nite pups
TRex @
205
Dreams can predict the future better than politicians, but that is a no-brainer. Good story.
There are so many ticking nuclear clocks. Back from 1992 through 1997 I participated in some guerrilla nuclear monitoring in the Hanford Reach area of the Columbia River. We timed our motorboat trips from Richland to coincide with the Tri-City Audobon Society’s winter bird survey, which we participated in. We’d overnight at a landing just opposite (eastern shore) of the abandoned town of Hanford.
We took radioactivity monitorings at various places where small streams emanate from the Hanford Reservation into the Columbia. The most active is the area which Westinghouse, Battelle, Halliburton et al call “N-Reactor Springs.” If you publicly try to go there to measure, you go to prison.
After our last readings, I’m afraid to go back. Not for fear of prison.
I was living in New Orleans during the Cuban Missle Crisis. All I really knew at the time was that my dad was still at the base and could not come home and my mom was very very nervous, watching our small black and white tv while ironing my father’s Navy uniforms. I really did not know what all the grown-ups were upset about.
Now I too feel the need to be doing something. Anything. I hate feeling useless.
Ed*ard Teller @ 176
I suppose my point is that Iran and NK are all of a piece to the Bushies (I’d be more concerned that Rumsfeld might have actively interfered with, while at ABB, a plan that would likely have deterred NK from seeking nuclear weapons production–it’s immensely more difficult to extract bomb-fuel plutonium from a monitored light-water reactor, because of the nature of the fuel cycle, than from the reactor they’re currently using–an old British gas-cooled graphite design–to make bomb fuel).
The implication of the story you cited was that Rumsfeld, through ABB, was helping the North Koreans obtain nuclear weapons. In fact, the plan proposed by Carter was to provide them with what they most needed–electrical power–without providing them a steady source of bomb fuel. The electrical situation is so dire in NK that their crop yields are almost insignificant because they don’t have enough power to run their irrigation pumps through the summer months. (One of the most telling pieces of evidence in this regard is a composite photo NASA did of the earth of night made up of photos from the shuttle. The outline of North Korea is immediately distinguishable by its lack of light. There’s a tiny dot where Pyongyang should be, roughly comparable to my town of 45,000, and there are 3,000,000 people in Pyongyang.)
What, in fact, the Bushies likely have done is push two countries with hitherto potentially peaceful nuclear programs toward weapons as a means of defending themselves from the Bushies. NK has always been slightly paranoid in this regard, but the Bushies have greatly contributed to that. If that’s what you meant by the above, then we’re very much in agreement.
Cheers.
Suzanne @
210
suzanne,
report to your local Dem organization and volunteer every spare day from now until election day. You’ll make friends. Maybe you’re volunteering already………
I was NEVER a Democrat until now, though I still haven’t changed my registration from Green to Dem. But I will. My wife and I have donated and volunteered more on this campaign than we ever have before.
Brilliant. Yow.
Alright, kids. It’s time for this theropod to drag hisself off to the bed. Y’all be good. Sleep tight.
Good night.
Ed*ard Teller @ 209
Years ago, it was revealed that plutonium waste at Hanford had been pumped down wells on DOE property. In response, the DOE said that it would take 400 years for that material to be transported by ground water to the Columbia, and by that time, the site would be cleaned up and there would be new technology to take care of the problem. Thirty-five years later, waste was within 400 yards of the Columbia, because, contrary to the DOE’s assertions, heavy metals and small organisms combined to form myceles which moved much more rapidly in the ground water than the heavy metals themselves.
I have, somewhere in my accumulated piles of paper, an EPRI flyer promoting nuclear power, produced in 1968, saying that we could expect a “serious” nuclear plant accident once every 400 years. I got a sort of perverse pleasure in quoting that document to nuclear engineers at Consumer Power in 1980, after Three Mile Island.
My general assessment is that when 400 years and nuclear power are mentioned in the same paragraph, one shouldn’t believe a bit of it.
montag @ 211
We are. My background is less from the scientific end than that of being closely involved in anti-proliferation activist groups and having two of the most prominent people in that movement, James L. Acord ( http://www.tcfn.org/timecapsul…..acord.html ) and the late Chuck Hanson ( http://www.uscoldwar.com/ ) as close friends and sometime collaborators on projects.
G’night folks.
snagged this from a comment thread at Dkos on the Jim Ryun campaign. I’ll use it to sign off:
” We have to beat these people
We really do.
And it won’t matter if we use a gigantic stick.
They believe in torture.”
night, doggies……the clock is ticking on the thugs.
Altogether, the US military announced the deaths of 9 US troops over the weekend on Sunday. Four US troops were announced killed by a roadside bomb on Sunday. The NYT says, that in addition, “The military on Sunday announced the deaths of five more American service members. Three marines died Friday from “enemy action” in Anbar Province, in western Iraq. Two soldiers were killed Saturday, one in Mosul by a roadside bomb and the other in Baghdad by small arms fire.”
Hi firepups -
Anyone up?
The BBC just had a segment with Amy Friedman (sp?), a transplant surgeon promoting payment for live organ donors in the US. She – in response to Beeb interviewer – agreed this would disproportionately affect the poor, but said the same was true of military service.
This from a physician. I am so ashamed…….
[ps - program - Healthcheck]
[pps - I love and respect the transplant community - worked with ‘em for years.
I despise the sale of human flesh – and those who advocate it.
Especially those who with very, very high paid jobs which depend on the organs.
The organs they want to pay poor people for.
Am I just not able to get along on this, or is there an ethical problem here…?
Primum non nocere
Whee, North Korea tests a nuke.
Hard to believe that the north Koreans in their secret negotions never mentioned that they were ready to test a bomb to bush? I mean they want stuff from us right embarrassing the President right before an election is hardly the way to get it. Unless bush thought they were bluffing and ignored them, Karl then told bush we can use the fear of a bomb to win the Nov election. Here is the problem bush could not find Ossama, he can’t beat the Iraq’s (we won WW2 in less time than we have been in Iraq) bUSH AND RUMMY CAN’T BEAT A COUNTRY WITH THE BOMB! WE HAVE TO GET RID OF THEM NOW! FORGET POLITICS DOES ANYONE THINK BASED ON THEIR BATTING AVERAGE SO FAR THAT THEY ARE READY TO HANDLE THE MAJORS (ATOMIC) LEAGUE IN A WAR!
Online headlines at NYT, WP and LAT say it all, and since much of the conversation up-thread, more details of the NK test have been confirmed.
A bit more of my background: I did an internship at the State Dept a few years ago (just before Gulf War I), working on issues like Iraqi and NK proliferation. I do not currently work on these areas professionally, but I have maintained a scientific and policy-wonk interest. I am a physicist.
A few remarks:
– s@174: Expect no EMP. This was an underground test.
– Signs point to a yield of order 1 kiloton. This is evidence of a possible test failure, in the technical sense. The Hiroshima bomb had roughly 15 times the yield.
– As one of the papers says, even a technical failure would be important. Most of our ABM tests have failed, but we’re going to be hearing a lot about that
boondogglesystem in the next few weeks.– It is possible to detonate a non-nuclear device with this much explosive force. NK has tested high-explosive devices in the past (as much as 20 years ago, I think). It is therefore possible, but unlikely, that this was not a nuclear test. Two technical scenarios seem likely to me:
(a) There will be a second, more powerful test very soon. Compare with Pakistan, which tested six devices in three days.
(b) It may be some time before the test can really be confirmed as nuclear. Of course, in the meantime, it will be assumued to have been real. Tests will include attempting to detect minute, airborne radiation signatures.
– This was probably a plutonium-based weapon. That likely fact has significant implications for the blame game. (Plutonium production is what was halted under the “Agreed Framework”, which was the Clinton-era treaty. Uranium mines exist in-country, but their capability to produce weapons-grade uranium has not been demonstrated or claimed.)
– NK formally withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in 2002. This test was therefore not illegal.
– Within the last week, NK announced a nuclear no-first-use policy, and said it would not support nuclear weapons’ programs in other, non-nuclear states.
– Official US estimate of plutonium requirements for a weapon is 4 kilograms. NK has produced significantly more than this quantity.
Good resources for unbiased pre-test information:
Federation of American Scientists
Congressional testimony of previous director of Los Alamos laboratory after visit to NK.
Timeline of NK nuclear program, from the Wisconsin Project.
NRDC website.
Union of Concerned Scientists
————————————–
Obvious problems ahead:
– Confrontation, ranging from diplomatic to near-blockade to blockade to attack. Expect the upcoming election to play a major role in our posture.
– Revival of discussion of need for “bunker buster” nuclear weapons. IMHO, a very, very bad idea.
– Heightened rhetoric about need to pre-emptively attack Iran. Note: It was very well-known that NK was much, much further along the path to becoming a nuclear weapon state than Iran is reputed to be. Iran is thought to be several years from this point.
– Heightened rhetoric about Axis of Evil: NK definitely sells non-nuclear missile technology to Iran. This makes lots of people very angry. The extent to which North Korea and Iran share nuclear know-how is not, to my knowledge, known.
– Japan could go nuclear. It is likely that Japan could perform a nuclear test in a matter of weeks if they wished to. They have the special nuclear material and plenty of technological sophistication. And they have a new, more nationalistic PM. A nuclear Japan would freak out a lot of Asian governments, but might be welcomed by the Bush administration.
Just a few thoughts on the first day of a nuclear North Korea. This is a big deal, folks — I expect a full-court press from Cheney, but I can’t imagine what form it will take. I’m sure it will be disgusting.
Remember: many people said that if Pakistan ever got an atomic weapon, it would be the end of the world. They have been nuclear for eight years now.
One more thought:
There is no evidence that the North Koreans possess the technical capability to put a nuclear warhead on a missile. Historically, this takes time, because the initial fission devices tend to be too big. Miniaturization is hard. We should push back hard against the notion that the US faces an imminent threat.
The greatest threat we face, I believe, is that this stupid test will throw the election. And even if the Republicans lose control of both houses, there is no evidence that this will serve to check the military ambitions of the WH in the coming weeks and months. When the flag starts waving, there’s trouble coming.
Good morning pups- Any of the early crowd got their coffee going yet? Old Sow? Beard5? Imm?
Back to a F/T job today with a couple weeks of training in a new area. Looking forward to the new digs, but will miss you all for a while.
Some more information:
From the best account at DailyKos, here’s the Google Earth picture of where the test took place: map. The updates to this diary are very good.
AmericaBlog has more background and prognostication.
The more I think about this, the more I think that Karmageddon could not have come at a worse time. With their backs really, really, really, against the wall, the ruling party is going to go especially ape-shit over this.
For one, brief, shining moment, we could see through the gathering gloom. It already seems like last night was last year.
uh guys what is wrong with the wait them out approach we did with the USSR in the cold war? It worked and it requires time and patience which is cheaper in lives and money than a limited strike on their nukes or a war. We can’t let bush and karl trap us into their binary war/peace, good/evil way of thinking. Iraq was the result Time and patience CONTAIN THE CRETINS!
kirk murphy @220,
no, it’s not just you. That’s awful! To butcher Dickens: “Are there no poorhouses? Are there no infantry divisions? Haven’t they spare kidneys to sell on EBay?”
Did this doc have somebody sign the attendance sheet for her in Ethics class? Would it be okay with her if a man parceled out every possible organ, ensuring his own death, but making it possible for his family to survive?
I guess ‘informed consent’ doesn’t exclude ‘coerced consent’ for some physicians.
Let alone abandoning the concept of fairness in the distribution of donated organs. Surely she is advocating that they go to the highest bidder here…which means her concept screws the poor at both ends.
Redshift @
154
Now that’s good. Wanted to quote so the mornin’ pups don’t miss it.
Bill @ 226
Politically, the Democrats could make good use of this–if they keep their heads–by going all the way back to the Agreed Framework, and the determination of the Bushies to damage it for the sake of convincing skeptics in Congress to continue funding NMD. I don’t think it would take much more than a double soundbite to make the point about self-fulfilling prophecies. Add in the determination of the Bushies to also damage South Korean president Kim Dae-jung’s reengagement policy, and the Democrats have an offensive.
I agree that this could be used by the Bushies to renew fear about Iran. That is the bigger worry right now, and it seems their most likely course of action, having pretty much avoided talking to the North Koreans for years. That approach has left them little to stand on with regard to NK.
As for the yield, I still haven’t seen seismic data from several locations. All I’ve heard is an estimated 4.3R, and that strikes me as more than a fizzle yield, although that’s still possible. The Russians–as reported a couple of minutes ago on NPR–are saying between 5-15Kt. Even if a fizzle yield, they will learn something from this.
montag,
I think that’s a good approach – and it can easily be tied in with their protection of Foley to hang both around their necks.
“Republicans ignore problems until they explode.”
BQ @ 231
Gawd, what a soundbite that would make. (!)
Bill, thanks for the links.
“I agree that this could be used by the Bushies to renew fear about Iran.”
I agree Montag. AFAIK, the Dems play is to “work with our allies.”
I can’t believe China is too happy with North Korea. Given how many of our T-Bills China owns, it seems to me we have to coordinate with them.
Russia is the big thumper in the ME. I can’t believe they are anxious for Iran to get nukes. It seems to me we have to follow their lead.
Since Bush’s first rule Diplomacy is Fuck You, the Dems have a pretty serious challenge.
Gnome de Plume @
84
Yeah, every time I’m listening to the news with only half an ear and I hear something about “Georgia” and it turns out to be the Russians saber-rattling or invading there’s always that little “bzzzt” sound in my brain until I realize that the largest state east of the Mississippi is not necessarily a major player on the international scene!
montag, it’s my understanding that North Korea got a lot of the technical help to build the bomb from Pakistan. I like what you wrote above. I am wondering what you think of attacking Bush for partnering with as outlaw a government as Pakistan, if it is accurate that they helped North Korea. BTW, I think I got that from emptywheel.
Morning, Firepups,
It’s clear and cool in central Jersey. I’ve got coffee started. I’m off to finish a project with my sister, so I can’t hang out here at the Lake for long.
Quite the night here…I did my usual web check this morning: National Weather Service, Doonesbury, then the front page of the NY Times. Yikes! Well, it’s not like this should come as a surprise. NK has been saying “we’ve got the bomb,” and “we’re going to test the bomb.” Have the Bushies said anything yet? Or worse, have they done anything yet?
OT, grabbing for nukes imo is a natural consequence of Bush’s casual discussion of “regime change,” as though he’s changing socks. Dictators around the world see it as a poison pill to U.S. “regime change.”
Democrats need to get the message out that Pedarism, like rape is not about sexuality, preference or choice.
Thanks, Bill, for your expertise.
About the impact on the political process, my initial impression was that it was bad for the Administration, but I was perhaps being overly optimistic:
Is it me, or does this make Iran more problematic — the electorate now agrees Iraq was not the threat. If North Korea is a threat, wouldn’t attacking Iran be seem as similarly striking out in the wrong direction?
Same for blaming Clinton — haven’t they gone to that well once too often?
Scandal splits Hastert, Shimkus
October 9, 2006
montag @ 232
From your keyboard to Rahm Emanuel’s aide’s monitor, heh. Helps that it’s true – about everything. 9/11, Katrina, Afghanistan/Taliban resurgance, Iraq Civil War, NK, Foley, global warming, just f-ing everything.
You can’t make this stuff up.
From an otherwise unremarkable article TODAY by Robert Novak in the Chicago Sun Times.
Bold is mine.
John Casper @ 235
I don’t think any of us civilians know for sure about the extent to which Pakistan was instrumental. A.Q. Khan had pretty much created a one-stop shopping network for newbies, but the North Koreans aren’t exactly newbies. They were first segregating spent fuel rods for reprocessing almost twenty years ago (around 1989) and their nuclear program began in 1964. However, some Americans who had gone in as IAEA observers in 1994 said that the NK system was pretty shoddy and there was no emphasis on safety, so, who knows? I think it would be safe to say that everything in NK goes in slow motion because of limited resources. How much Pakistan could have speeded things up, I just don’t know.
I think that a greater and more immediate case can be made that the Pakistani ISI is still surreptitiously aiding the Taliban, and that has fairly immediate connections to the war in Afghanistan and American troop safety. Someone is paying for this resurgence of the Taliban. They aren’t doing it without resources.
Cheers.
Thanks very much montag.
Talibangelicals
/added/
hehe
anyway, it’s a great piece, EXCEPT;
rove is gay
cheney is gay
probably bush is gay
skooter too
they’re not going to be able to throw stones
John Casper @ 235
correct me if I’m wrong
did’t WE just ignore the ban on tests that WE are signators?
shouldn’t the democrats be PUNSIHING the administration for that inept decsision having caused this?
That’s my understanding as well. IIRC, it was wrt giving nukes to India.
me to me @ 246
Actually, no. The Bushies have gotten money from Congress to make the Nevada Test Site ready for testing again on an accelerated schedule, but we haven’t done any nuclear testing since Clinton voluntarily ceased underground testing. (This is a bit iffy, since the labs can now do a great deal of computer modeling of weapons that requires no actual testing, but, hey, the guys at the labs are probably itchy to begin live tests again.)
Haven’t read all the posts yet but the NK Nuke could be Bush’s “cut & run” October wrapped up with a bow surprise option…..
edit
deleted, hehe…post made no sense
montag @ 248
oops
shut my mouth then
me to me @ 251
Actually, no. The Bushies have gotten money from Congress to make the Nevada Test Site ready for testing again on an accelerated schedule, but we haven’t done any nuclear testing since Clinton voluntarily ceased underground testing. (This is a bit iffy, since the labs can now do a great deal of computer modeling of weapons that requires no actual testing, but, hey, the guys at the labs are probably itchy to begin live tests again.)
oops
shut my mouth then
Well, perhaps you’re confusing our testing with what amounts to disregard for the NNPT (the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty). The deal the Bushies made with India was, practically, a violation of the NNPT by selling nuclear technology to India (a non-signatory to the treaty) which will enable them to divert more of their current resources to weapons production. So, in that sense, you’re correct–we didn’t abide by the terms of the NNPT, effectively abrogating a treaty we had previously signed. But, this is nothing new for the Bushies–they’ve previously ignored the ABM treaty without consulting either Congress or the international community.
Morning chuckle: Jeff Greenfield called Imus’ show to point out today’s Bob Novak column’s mention that the Republicans began last week in disarray but by the end of the week, they were “all on the same page.”
Also, Imus on a major rant against Joe Barton this morning because of the chicanery on the Combatting Autism Act which Barton is holding up. He played the Heaton soundbite from This Week [up now on the ABC website].
Here’s what caught my ear. He mentioned the people he’s trying to help get elected… “Santorum and Ford.” Notice the major omission?
Pushing unanimous consent thru the Senate is easy if you know it’ll be killed in the House, methinks. Back to follow the money… the campaign financing $$$$, the Congressional PACs, the spouses and their lobbying clientele.
The Republicans have been in charge of this mess. Time to vote the bastards out.
Expect the “Clinton gave the NKs the nuclear material” lie to surface a lot in the wingnut media. This is, of course, false; the CIA concluded in 1991 that NK had extracted plutonium from its gas-graphite reactors in 1989.
Although I think the 1994 Agreed Framework was a stupid treaty, it’s irrelevant to NK’s weapons programs; none of the light-water reactors were completed, and no nuclear material was ever shipped. The fact is that the NKs got the raw material for the bombs from the reactors supplied to them in the 1960s by the then-Soviet Union, and the expertise to make them, very likely, from our good friends in Pakistan. The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists is one great source for good information on this.
However, the “Clinton gave them nukes!” propoganda is out there, and I expect to hear it spun loud and fast. I’m going to do my bit to get the truth out where I can.
This is my first chance todrop by FDL in nearly two weeks. Hope everyone is well.
Great post, T-Rex. “Talibangelicals” alone is worth the price of admission.
As to the role that Khan/Pakistan may have played in NK’s nuclear program, it would be interesting to know if Valerie Plame and company were on the case before she was outed.
Hi All, Quick drive by to share blessings for peace & justice, now needed more than ever.
Good Mornin’ Pups,
Today Show led w/ Foley, followed closely by NK -
anecdotal impression is they’re all poo-poohing severity of NK – CNN framing all as matter of awaiting confirmation, etc. NBC & Andrea Mitchell wanting to talk about how ‘mean’ IL Kim is to his people – uh oh, back to Foley/Kolbe
and a day without Sharkbabe is a day without sunshine -
Morning all– Barbara Starr and Soledad O’Brien (both of them nookular scientists doncha know) are ’splainin all of this to the Murkan people.
This is the total failure and fault of the Republican party.
No diplomatic efforts whatsoever– refusing invitations to talk. Nothing but guns and bombs. Bolton, Rice and Bush throwing out derisive and hateful words endlessly and a diseased Congress passing dirty resolutions condemning entire countries and their people. Too bad Koizumi and Bush were just good buddies who went to Graceland… what a disgrace.
Hey, “Red” America, are you paying attention yet?
in case you didn’t catch it yesterday – this is Cokie going off – but is reeaallly worth watching just for the shot showing George Will’s reaction
http://americablog.blogspot.co…..-moms.html
Oh TRex, so sorry to miss this post last night, too busy with household stuff; such is the life of a villager.
Nuts, and I just put away my pitchfork for the winter. Guess I better get it back out and look for the pitch for the torches while I’m at it.
Maybe I should ask Santa for a new stainless steel pitchfork for Christmas; I might wear out my old one by then…
alittlemusicalityplease @
255
Well, as the Pugs are fond of saying “There’s no proof that they weren’t.” I say let’s just run with it (great connection, btw)
cbl — thanks for that Losing the Cokie Mom link; I’m still boycotting ABC, wouldn’t have caught it.
Wow. I think they’ve lost the soccer moms.
Thanks, TRex, I needed that.
Rayne – ABC – me too
have been constantly shaking my head these past 11 days – that this regime has been fundamentally damaged by 2 of it’s usual water carriers: ABC and Woodward
oh and Happy Birthday John Lennon
BQ @ 261
I’m with you, BQ.
Morning, OS – hope all is well with you and yours (whatever happened to morning greetings around these part?).
What worries me is that the administration will be so pissed that North Korea has not knocked Foley out of the headlines that it will do somthing that will…anyone know where Dick Cheney is?
Anne– dunno where dick is, but boosh is gonna speak this hour and that’s sure to shatter some sensibilities somewhere.
and a good morning to you…
Good morning, everyone.
Must be time to hit the bunkers.
OS? beardy? Imm? tommy?
Cheers to Christopher Columbus.
oh, poor old mother! just talked to her on the phone… she didn’t sleep all night worrying that NK was now going to blow us up…
Meta and Anne, so nice to see y’all among the commenters. The OS-mobile cruising through some new neighborhoods lately, but always happy to greet ya here. And of course all the rest of the Lakesters!
are they yelling in Atlanta ? . . .
Richmond newspapers front paging Macaca’s stock “troubles”
http://www.timesdispatch.com/s…..9191047780
meta – OS did drive-by, couple days back Tommy said he’d be maintaining radio silence for a week or two due to other commitments – holiday today so maybe imm is getting to sleep in, don’t know about beardy
Meta, in these woods Columbus Day is often called Native American Massacre Memorial Day or somesuch.
Brought a morning chuckle at 4:46 a.m.
Now a greeting, good morning, all!
Started the morning watching Tony Bennett on MSNBC live. What a soothing way to ease into a stress-full day ahead.
mornin’ Anne (and everybody else)
I know dick has been on the road doing closed-door fundraisers lately – perhaps he’s still out snarling for dollars. Can’t let governance interfere with fearmongering and fundraising.
Hiya Old Sow. Hope you are weathering the stormy news here and there. We could use a nice pic from twolf1 about now.
I’m digging out a copy of the Constitution and dusting it off, just for old time’s sake.
Thanks cbl! Hope all is well.
Old Sow, we might all have to make the sacrifice if the news gets any gloomier. But the Dem charge is on! Love it when Cokie Stokie pops a vein! And who wouldn’t pay to see George Will hang his head all morning??
Prairie, that would be an 80 Year Old Tony Bennett – saw him live just 2 years ago and could not believe the pipes at that age – here he is at a spry 76 w/ kd lang
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp6vYZxDjAc
there’s 5 or 6 of these duets on youtube
Yep, it sure has gotten a bit quieter here in the mornings, but my guess is that it’s a cyclical thing. People will be back when it’s convenient for them. cbl, this was the best part:
Now, it’s bad enough that Allen — a lawyer himself — didn’t know it, but what kind of personal attorney of a sitting Senator doesn’t know the Senate ethics manual?
BQ @ 274
Yeah, ole dick snuck into a private home in NOVA fundrazing for the racist macacaman.
New thread, gang. Morning…
angie, thanks for the warning about Bush. More war drums? I’ll have to run the other way, I’m afraid.
Good morning all, anyone need more coffee? It’s Sumatran today, and there are apples baking for breakfast.
Last night LindyH and Old Coastie linked to these sites re the NK test
US Geological Survey
Swiss Red Puma (via China?)
The quake/shock finally showed up on USGS but Red Puma doesn’t show it yet that I can see. Any seismologists up yet who can tell me if I should take my tinfoil hat off and look for the key to my fallout shelter?
From last night:
LindyH @
22
hey, utube
really really good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..&eurl=
This is prolly kind of late for this post but wrt to Iranian submarines…
If you dug far enough and deeply enough you would prolly find out that they were old US diesel submarines. We have given many of them away over the years. These submarines if handled by competent and well trained crews can be very quiet and extremely stealthy. At slow speeds,
Rayne @
260
Rayne, that pitchfork’s so cool — “Whether you’re a devotee of English-style gardening, French intensive double digging, or the American eclectic school,” — American eclectic school” Ahoohaaa snerk(!)
As for torches, I recommend this site.
Boy, that didn’t work well. Sorry.
karnak12 @ 284
Not sure of that but maybe some US. Iran seems to have 6 SSK (hunter killer subs), 3 are used KILO-class hunter-killer subs purchased from Russia — small and *very* quiet — the other three are listed as SSI’s aka SSK-type but origin not identified, at least not in Wikipedia. Any Janes afficionados out there?
I never noticed before how much George Felix Allen resembles Monty Hall.
It would seem as though gay republicans would have a hard time, but here in Florida, they seem to be doing alright. The Republican candidate for Governor, Charlie Crist hasn’t lost a point on the Foley scandal… Then again it’s not exactly advertized that he’s gay. The R’s certainly aren’t going to do it, and the D’s aren’t scumbag enough to do it, so though the fact is common knowledge to some, the majority of Florida has no idea. Go figure… I wonder how many people would have a stroke in Florida if they learned their choice for Governor was between a gay man and a Democrat. I guess it’s probably a lot like how I feel about having to choose between Catherine “Hanging Chad” Harris and “Spineless Bill” Nelson for Senate.
Did you know according to Lawerence O Donnel Hasart a la J Edger lives with his chief of staff?