
The whole did she or did she not talk with Tenet in July of 2001 question appears to have been resolved — as Andrea Mitchell reported on MSNBC, by the WH sending a squad of folks over to the National Archives to do a damage control search for pushback on the new Woodward book (and isn't that a switch from the last two fawning tomes where they were racing themselves to find a microphone to prop Woody's research methods up and talk about his burnished journalistic credentials?)…and finding that Bob Woodward's assertion that a meeting took place was correct all along.
But that only scratches the surface on needed answers.
Mahablog reports that Roger Cressey received the same briefing that Condi did, and he talked about it a bit on MSNBC yesterday. Yowza.
And it turns out that it wasn't just Condi who got the briefings on the substantial Al Qaeda threat in July of 2001:
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and former Attorney General John Ashcroft received the same CIA briefing about an imminent al-Qaida strike on an American target that was given to the White House two months before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
The State Department's disclosure Monday that the pair was briefed within a week after then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice was told about the threat on July 10, 2001, raised new questions about what the Bush administration did in response, and about why so many officials have claimed they never received or don't remember the warning.
A thinking person might ask, "gee, wasn't that just two months before 9/11?" Why, yes, it was.
Three top officials of the Bush Administration…warned of a major threat by al qaeda…two months before US soil was attacked. And yet, these warnings were not included in the report of the 9/11 Commission, despite George Tenet giving testimony about them because….what, exactly?
Nor is it clear why the 9/11 commission never reported the briefing, which the intelligence officials said Tenet outlined to commission members Ben-Veniste and Zelikow in secret testimony at CIA headquarters. The State Department confirmed that the briefing materials were "made available to the 9/11 Commission, and Director Tenet was asked about this meeting when interviewed by the 9/11 Commission."
The three former senior intelligence officials, however, said Tenet raised the matter with the panel himself, displayed slides from the PowerPoint presentation and offered to testify on the matter in public.
Ben-Veniste confirmed to McClatchy Newspapers that Tenet outlined for the 9/11 commission the July 10 briefing to Rice in secret testimony in January 2004. He referred questions about why the commission omitted any mention of the briefing in its report to Zelikow, the report's main author. Zelikow didn't respond to e-mail and telephone queries from McClatchy Newspapers.
Clarke, the former White House counterterrorism chief, Ben-Veniste and the former senior intelligence officials all challenged some aspects of Woodward's account of the briefing given to Rice, including assertions that she failed to react to the warning and that it concerned an imminent attack inside the United States.
Clarke told McClatchy Newspapers that Rice focused in particular on the possible threat to President Bush at an upcoming summit meeting in Genoa, Italy, and promised to quickly schedule a high-level White House meeting on al-Qaida. That meeting took place on September 4, 2001.
Wish they'd been able to get a response from Zelikow, since he was the Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission and now works for Rice at the State Department, that would put him right in the center of all of this, now wouldn't it?
Froomkin has had some fantastic background on all of this — here and here.
Is this all just more of the WHIG versus the CIA ongoing battle to see who takes the fall for the Iraq mess? The NYTimes seems to suggest that is the case:
The dispute that has played out in recent days gives further evidence of an escalating battle between the White House and Mr. Tenet over who should take the blame for the failure to stop the Sept. 11 attacks and assertions by Bush administration officials that Saddam Hussein was stockpiling chemical and biological weapons and cultivating ties to Al Qaeda.
Mr. Tenet resigned as director of central intelligence in the summer of 2004 and was honored that December with a Presidential Medal of Freedom at a White House ceremony. Since leaving the C.I.A., Mr. Tenet has stayed out of the public eye, largely declining to defend his record even after several government investigations assailed the faulty intelligence that helped build the case for the Iraq war.
Mr. Tenet is now completing work on a memoir that is scheduled to be published early next year. It is unclear how much he will use the book to settle old scores, although recent books have portrayed him both as dubious about the need to invade Iraq and angry that the White House has made the C.I.A. the primary scapegoat for the war.
Well, this could get interesting. Last time the WHIG v. CIA mess heated up (see here and here), we got the Fitzgerald investigation, the Cheney mark-up on the Wilson op-ed, the peek into the White House push-back operation, and a window into Dick Cheney's behind-the-scenes machination drawer.
The White House has already had to send a pushback squad to the National Archives to dig up material that they had to finally admit confirmed that this meeting took place between Condi, Tenet and Black a mere two months before 9/11 — guess it wasn't so incomprehensible after all, eh, Condi? Wonder what else will get coughed up this round?
…someone pass me the popcorn…
(H/T to Needlenose for the photo.)
UPDATE: Paul Lukasiak has a couple of excellent points that I wanted to bring up from the comments:
1) It appears that this “brush off” from Rice (and Ashcroft and Rumsfeld) was what lead to the creation of the August 6 “Bin Laden Determined to Attack the US” PDB. Having gone to the Secretary of Defense, the Attorney General, and the National Security Advisor and gotten no action, the CIA’s only hope was to present (basically the same) briefing to Bush…. who brushed it off as well.
2) Rice wanted Ashcroft and Rummy briefed…. but not Powell? This is especially strange, given that Rice claims to believe that she wasn’t warned about attacks in the United States — Powell should have been in the loop, and Ashcroft less involved, if the operational assumption was that US interests abroad would be targetted…
Hmmm…more questions. And I'd love to see someone asking those, wouldn't you?
Related posts:
- Why Did Tenet Create a False Record on the Day After He “Quit”?
- Was Porter Goss Briefed on Things Pelosi and Harman Weren’t?
- Richard Clarke Reminds Cheney and Condi of Their Incompetence
- The Fitzgerald-Cheney Interview: What Don’t We Know That We Don’t Know?
- FAA and NORAD Changed Records to Accord with Cheney Lies





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Bastards!!!
One thing they did as I remember was direct John Ashcroft to stop taking commercial flights.
Sam at 2 — Mahablog covers that question well in the link above. And, oddly, no one has asked Ashcroft about that issue that I could find anywhere.
This and the war in Iraq are what we need to be talking about. The latest page sex scandel is distracting from the real issue. I hope we stop talking about that soon and get back to the utter incompetence of these people to govern, they are making us less safe, they lie.
jere at 4 — the page scandal is yet another example of the cover-up and lie behavior, it’s just a different subject matter at the heart of it. Different subjects grab different segments of folks, but the overall narrative of how the Republican Party has behaved in power is the same — for shame.
If the Cheny Bush administration was cooking up a “plan of attack” for Iraq when they were handed the white house keys… it is pretty clear that to attack we would need a provocation.
And you do recall Bush and Blair talking about staging a shoort down of a UN marked plane over Iraq???
It all sounds so conspiratorial… but chaos anywhere around the world is a perfect excuse for the USA to flex it’s muscles and “move in” in the interest of stabilyt. Look at Haiti where we removed… literally Aristide and installed a puppet gov.
Whether 9.11 was planned or allowed to happen because chaos is what the militarist want and it always makes the industrialists swimming in cash… I don’t see that the cheney administration is really trying to make the world a safer place. What they want is a battlefield and a never ending war and a means to divert all tax revenues of this nation to the military industrial complex.
Call me a cynic… but that’s what the big boys want. M O N E Y and P O W E R.
of course ashcroft knew; he took the threat seriously enough to stop flying on commercial airplanes.
The lying AWOL Decider is in Phoenix this morning – campaigning as usual…no wonder there was a unusual chill in the air
I think it would be interesting to look at where these people were and what they were doing right after the 2000 “election”,before the inauguration. Once the presidency was in the bag,so to speak,what were Cheney and Rummy(and the rest of the lot of’em) doing? Methinks that a whole bunch of plotting and planning and scheming was happening around that time since they knew the PNAC vision/mission statement could now be made real. Perhaps someone has covered this short time frame and I’ve missed it,but it might be verrrrry interesting if it could be found out what was happening in those few weeks.
Phoenix? I thought he was in LA last night. Maybe he moved on, after jacking all of our afternoon traffic patterns.
I also think that this would explain why Ashcroft didn’t take commercial planes before 9/11. Just sayin’.
I think that the poop has hit the fan. People smell the weakness from the Foley scandal, are starting to really, really believe that the Bush Administration doesn’t have the power to break people anymore, and are now coming out with the details we’ve all suspected all along. If I’m right, then there will be some serious revelations in the next few weeks.
Interesting take on the Libster..
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=126958
Jack
Christy at 5, I agree. There are so many things wrong with what these people have done, it is hard to focus anymore. It just troubles me that the war in Iraq is becoming old news. Fox is labeling Foley a Democrat. Pretty soon, people believe it. The war goes on. People are dying. No one talks about it. It is just a “comma”. I want the focus to be on the incompetence of these morons to protect us. Ignoring evidence that the US was going to be attacked, the lying to get us into this war. This is the worst scandal of them all.
So can we stop calling the “9-11 Was an Inside Job Crowd” nutters yet?
klyde at 13 — I think we can definitely stop saying that the Bush Administration was on top of things from day one. But then, I haven’t been saying that since…well, since they came into office. *g*
DefJef at #6- That’s it, in a nutshell.
Looks like CIA may well have done a decent job of connecting the dots, better than we have been led to believe. Combine that with the parallel alerts from the midwestern (Minneapolis) FBI agent regarding one of the hijackers. Had anyone been doing their job paid attention, this information should have resulted in raising the alert levels at airports. It may well have disrupted some the hijackers. Water over the dam at this point, except that it serves as a report card on the individuals involved. Condi gets an F.
We go and decimate the CIA with Goss purges. Are you feeling safer now that we purged the CIA of the experienced operatives and analysts and probably replaced them with Young Republicans whose clandestine skills consist of little more than political dirty tricks?
Can we expect anything other than Condoliar’s response to brushing off Tenet and Cofer? The Scooter Libby approach to accountability.
I can’t remember.
I didn’t know.
.
If this gets a little traction, Condoliar’s approval ratings might well become consistent with her skills and abilities, which increasingly appear to be associated with prevarication.
With the MSM still fixated on sex, keeping this story alive really serves the public good.
I’d really like to see and am hoping that the ‘Jersey Girls’ regroup to hammer this story. It would seem to be their ‘mushroom cloud.
It appears we all have really been snookered by this (should I use these two juxtaposed words? – YES) cover up.
Crooks and Liars.
“The latest page sex scandel is distracting from the real issue.”
I disagree. It’s the first story I’ve seen since FDL started, where both the right and left want the story covered. This allows the TM to pursue it, very aggressively. I agree Iraq is more “important,” because people are dying. But Iraq/Afghanistan does not have nearly the potential to depress Xtian right turnout on November 7 as Foley
HastertBoehnerReynoldsgate does.Whenever they cover Iraq, the TM write part of the article for liberals and part for conservatives. Also, ditto what Christy wrote at 5:44.
I don’t believe 9/11 was an inside job.
I do believe, as Wesley Clark states, it was the result of “command negligence.”
If Clinton had still been president and Richard Clarke had still been in his former job and they’d gotten the intel that they appear to have gotten that summer, MAYBE they could have stopped it. Maybe.
But the real culprit was the lack of communication between CIA and FBI, and that was institutional dysfunction. AND IT STILL EXISTS TODAY.
Wow. Busy morning this morning, and I’m not up to my game like Christy is (only 2 hours of sleep, bad thunderstorms = kids up in the middle of night and in the same bed huddled with mom).
First, in re: 9/11 — we have now been inundated with SO much material that we are forgetting facts.
Like Condi warning Willie Brown not to fly on 9/11.
Hmm.
Or House Armed Services Committee member Ike Skelton (D-MO) saying they’d been warned of a possible immediate attack by Tenet. Or that top brass had been warned not to fly, also.
Condi is lying through her teeth, as is Ashcroft. I haven’t heard any statements from Rummy, but if he opens his mouth, it’ll be a lie, too.
Foley scandal next comment.
windje at 16 — and whose job was the intersect on connecting those dots? I believe that would have been the National Security Advisor, wouldn’t it — who would be receiving briefings from intel agencies as well as looking at threats from within the US via the FBI and DEA reporting. So, um, Condi — how was all that Russian negotiation and jet downed in Chinese air space time for you those first few months? And why is it that the Bush Administration — and more specifically Condi — has consistently gotten a pass for their clear inability to multitask on the job?
Good morning FDL, I overslept this morning.
Christy thank you for the coverage of the abomination that is occuring in the House, and keeping an eye on Condi-bot’s memory issues.
After being out, much of the weekend, I’ve had Phillip Glass music playing to try and bring the panic attacks under control, and well….watching the news just wasn’t helping.
I wish the issue of this post was getting more coverage in the news, but the Foley issue has been getting more press. Is it too much to ask that the press can pay attention to more than one thing at a time? I mean…hell, with the panic issues I have the attention span of a ferret on a sugar buzz, and I’m able to still multi-task. (Calligraphy, rearranging the kitchen, illuminating 38 prize scrolls, etc.)
If it wasn’t clear, thank you CHS for all you do.
I’ve often said that if you want to point a finger of blame for 911 at any one person…put it squarely on Condi. She has skated thru this whole disaster. She was head of National Security for God sakes! “I don’t think anyone could have imagined….”….BS, Condi.
1. Real data: Bojinka. And, the Algerians hijacked an Air France jetliner with stated plans to fly it into the Eiffel Tower. The plane landed for refueling and french security forces stormed the plane. It’s all in the public record.
2. Imaginative data: I guess Condi never reads too much. Back in 1992-93 some fiction writer published a book. We had a conflict with a military wing in Japan. A great shoot-em-up ensued. We finally won. Peace returned. The new Japan gov’t sent it’s pilots out to retrieve all the embargoed JAL commercial airliners. One pilot was very mad over the death of his son in the conflict. He blamed USA.
He was tasked to ferry an empty 747 back to an American airport. Just he & the co-pilot were aboard. On the tarmac, he pulled a knife on the co-pilot, killed him, and pretended as if nothing happened. He got take-off clearance and obeyed all flight instructions. Late into the flight….he deviated. He flew his “fuel-laden 747″ (ding ding ding?) towards D.C. and using the fuel laden aircraft as a flying missile (ding ding ding?) crashed it into the Capitol where a joint session of Congress convened. He decapitated our federal gov’t. It was an act of suicide. (ding ding ding?)
The crazy author who wrote this? A guy named Clancy. Yeah, THAT Clancy. Written and published back in the early 90’s.
Ghostman
This story isn’t going to help Foley’s enablers.
Charles Carl Roberts IV, who killed five Amish girls in a Pennsylvania schoolhouse on Monday, claimed he’d molested girls 20 years ago, police say.
During the standoff, Roberts called his wife, Marie Roberts, on his cell phone and told her he’d molested two female relatives when they were 3 to 5 years old, State Police Commissioner Jeffrey B. Miller said at a press conference Tuesday, the Associated Press reports.
http://people.aol.com/people/a…..80,00.html
For an Administration hell-bent on invading Iraq, an Al Qaeda attack on U.S. soil was the perfect excuse. We know from reliable sources that invading Iraq was on the agenda from the earliest days and that the boobs had been told, in no uncertain terms, several times, of the probability of an Al Qaeda attack. Add to that what we should understand at this late date–we “fellow Americans” are pawns in Bush and Company’s diabolical maneuvers to undemocratize our country.
I don’t know if I can stomach learning any more about this evil empire. Hanging is too good for these home-grown terrorists who should never have drawn a breath.
Why is finding the records of the meeting an undesired result of a push back on Woodward and not Cheney throws Rice under the bus? If it was push back on Woodward, the story would have been “we looked and couldn’t find the record of the meeting”; that lie would have held until after the election.
beard5 at 22 — sorry about the panic issues — that can be so tough, especially to pinpoint the triggers for some folks or to find a medication that can help to ease things (have had clients who dealt with this when I was in private legal practice). But the ferret on a sugar buzz imagery — spot on! Will have to take a listen to Phillip Glass — any suggestions about a particular album to check out?
Oh, and you are more than welcome. :)
two observations —
1) It appears that this “brush off” from Rice (and Ashcroft and Rumsfeld) was what lead to the creation of the August 6 “Bin Laden Determined to Attack the US” PDB. Having gone to the Secretary of Defense, the Attorney General, and the National Security Advisor and gotten no action, the CIA’s only hope was to present (basically the same) briefing to Bush…. who brushed it off as well.
2) Rice wanted Ashcroft and Rummy briefed…. but not Powell? This is especially strange, given that Rice claims to believe that she wasn’t warned about attacks in the United States — Powell should have been in the loop, and Ashcroft less involved, if the operational assumption was that US interests abroad would be targetted…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 20
Why is she getting a bye? I can come up with at least one theory, but it is PI.
As Johnny Cash once said – “I didn’t vote for Mr. Bush – let’s leave it at that.”
OT — now to Foley scandal.
Matt Lauer interviews Scarborough, who is thoroughly disgusted with this situation. (I think a Congressman with Scarborough’s background should be a bit more judicious, even if it helps our case, but hey, you go with the pundits you have, not the pundits you want.)
They both discuss Denny Hastert being “thrown under the bus”, using exactly that phrase.
Cinches it. All that’s missing are the print casts from the treadmarks on Denny’s back.
I never knew that Patty Wetterling had an 11-year-old son that was abducted in 1989 and never found…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5405596.stm
Steve at 26 — because they told a few reporters they would be going through the records prior to going to the Archives, apparently they were stuck reporting what they had found — knowing that someone else could also search through the records and look as well at some point. Andrea Mitchell had a definite “gotcha” tone to her reporting on this, and she rarely gets that with the Bush Administration — it’s usually sorrow or regret that I get from her on these sorts of stories. Condi and her spokespeople had been doing pretty substantial pushback interviews on this for the entire day before they went to the archives…and the fact that they had to walk all of that back a bit was a big deflation.
Welcome to the Internet, A Tutorial for Reporters
The Old Media is older than we thought.
By Stephen Spruiell
The Mark Foley scandal has revealed something deeply troubling about the state of our news media: In the year 2006, most reporters are still either unable or unwilling to distinguish between e-mails and instant messages. And in this story, that’s a crucial difference. The e-mails Mark Foley sent to a former male page give off a creepy old man vibe, but don’t cross the line into sex-offender territory. The instant messages he sent to former pages, on the other hand, ooze slime from the monitor. (Note to reporters: That’s the thing you’re looking at right now.)
http://article.nationalreview……JlOTk1ZGI=
Ghostman @ 22
Absolutely true – the French figured it out when the hijackers were insistent on getting a full fuel load for the short hop from a city in southern France to Paris, which probably wasn’t more than 300 miles.
lina@19 I agree about the inside job. The inside job folks are the re-made UFO crowd. My own wacko thought from the new data is that they let an attack happen to further the PNAC agenda of Iraq to Syria to Iran. The attack was ordered from Baghdad would be the battle cry. They, however, didn’t dream of a 9/11 attack. Going to Afghanistan first really pissed them off.
Hate to be the Balrog of bad news, but Rasmussen poll today has Liarman up 50-40%. Someone please explain why this is an outlier.
Someone must have a plan to eradicate this injustice, right?
OT — and more Foley crap. Somebody pointed out at DKos yesterday and last night in threads that the FBI had not pulled all computer materials or contacted Foley’s attorney or Foley as of presser yesterday.
Somebody else (can’t recall whom, sorry, might have been John Casper?) said they’d heard DoJ folks might have been responsible for the tip-off to ABC. Possible, of course, but skepticism abounds these days about everything, especially when there are other potential explanations for the tip-off.
Didn’t occur to me last night when discussing this matter that this might explain why Fibbies didn’t rush to Foley’s computer, Foley or his attorney: they already had been watching Foley for a while and had everything they needed.
are Lamont and Liarman going to debate soon?
The GOP and the WH appear to be self-destructing at just the right moment — but I wonder if we’re being distracted by “peripheral” lying and scandal at a critical time.
What is the latest information about a possible “October surprise” strike on Iran?
Did I read somewhere that the carriers and mine sweepers, etc. have reached “battle ready” positions?
I saw a brief mention of an ammendent to a Defense bill, passed in just the last few days, that gave the president the right to control the states’ National Guards in case of national emergencies. (Sen Leahy objected to it)
I Googled and got a story about a former CIA agent named Mc Govern who has been saying that a war on Iran, timed for Bush’s political advantage, will be launched: (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2006/ 010606iranstrike.htm.)
I just can’t find much news about these things, and I’m very uneasy — Am I being paranoid? — It’s just that Bush seems absolutely certain of winning in November…
You don’t suppose it’s possible that the Bushie’s, knowing that Woodward’s book would not be complimentary, decided to leak the Foley scandal last week themselves to distract the public from more important things?
Like the Iraq war intelligence report or Condi’s slow/nonexistent response to terrorist warnings pre-9/11?
Paul at 28 — yes, the Powell non-briefing is a puzzle, unless he had already been briefed? Great questions, though — I’ve raised them up as an update on the post, so they don’t get lost in the comments — I’d LOVE to see some of the folks with access asking these. (Or perhaps seeing if Tenet would like to provide some answers in that book of his…*g*)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 27
Re: Phillip Glass, The soundtrack to “Kundun” is wonderfully relaxing, great movie too. I’m awfully fond of Powaqaatsi (sp?) but I take a few of the faster paced, more South American tunes out because they’re well…faster paced.
Balrog @ 36
Rasmussan is a right leaning poll. But the Q Poll isn’s much better. Sorry to say.
OfT WaPo’s Howard Kurtz went with a lot of one of Jane’s posts last night
I think this is important, because Kurtz imho has been pretty much of a WH apologist. He was the guy Jim
Church LadyBrady used to try and get Xerox Ben Domenech through the gauntlet before he “resigned.”The more that gets exposed about the Bush regime, the better it is. Knoweledge is power. That’s why it’s imperative to take back the house. To investigate the doings of this evil crew, get that into the hands of committes who can hold them accountable, and put safeguards in place to prevent it from happening again.
I truly hope that once all this comes out, this regime will be held up as the antithesis of what American stands for.
Condi, just like her Repug colleagues in the Predatorgate scandal follows “the Book”.
You know, that ol’ Karl Rove Repug Playbook.
OK, let’s just check and see how Condi is doing on that Repug Playbook:
1. Never fess up. – Check
2. Tell ‘em you can’t remember. – Check
3. Lie. – Check
4. Blame the victim. – Check
5. Blame the Democrats. – Coming Soon
6. Hideout in Rehab. – Coming Soon
OK, almost all bases covered!
Keep working on it Condi baby! I know it’s hard, but it’s worth it!
CHS@32..Thanks
Ashcroft’s avoidance of non-chartered flights after mid-July of 2001 has been referred to often recently. Although it might be common knowledge, I myself did not know that. Can one of you people cite one of the original sources on that for me??
Thanks in advance.
Rayne at 30 — The WaPo has a Denny Getting Thrown Under the Bus story today as well. I think it’s time to go searching for a good picture of some burnt toast to have on hand…although, you never know, Denny might have a secret or two up his sleeve as payback for Reynolds, Boehner and Shimkus (a girl can dream, anyway…).
And finally, back on topic:
Remember that the White House took the unprecedented move of replacing the National Archivist.
I would encourage caution, not get hopes up too high about substantive materials being consistent or even found that would support OUR side of the case…
And didn’t Ashcroft, after seeing Tenet’s presentation and switching to private flights, still propose a large cut in the counter-terror budget for the DOJ just prior to 911?
As long as we are asking questions: Why did Ashcroft crawl out of the lobbying dung pile and act pissy about not being briefed? We now know he and Rumsfeld we both briefed. Why didn’t he say nothing?
lina (19), the CIA, along with Richard Clarke, was communicating to the Administration that intelligence pointed to the fact the U.S. was going to be attacked by Al Qaeda. The communication problem was because the Decider did not decide to communicate these warnings to the appropriate agencies. Too many facts were not tied together by too many responsible parties but we know the salient fact is that the Administration was warned but did nothing. How contemptible this has to be for the suffering victims of the 9/11 terrorists, here and abroad.
Steve at 52 — because Ashcroft supposedly has a book coming out shortly and he figured any publicity is good publicity? *g*
Rayne@50..somewhat OT but there is a major push by the Bush admin. to (gov’t phrase) de-access records. Bush has ordered the EPA libraries to be closed and the records to be de-accessed. The de-accessing process involves putting records into boxes and dumping them randomly into large warehouses. (makes it hard to prosecute polluters)
Easy to figure out whether there was a plot here: Are major shredding trucks all booked up in November in the greater Washington, DC area?
And what about electronic shredding? Also busy in November?
Remember, these guys thought and may still think they will rule without accountability forever. If they’re not so confident now, we’re going to see lots of shredding trucks pulling up to Washington offices before January.
I walk my kids to school past the house of one of the four guys in town who never came home on the night of 9/11. I remember, on 9/12, the cars from out of state that had evidently arrived overnight; the baby’s stroller on the front porch; the half-finished landscaping that had been begun over the summer.
I remember thinking, How could this have happened–someone, somewhere, had to have been warned, someone had to have known…
Like so many people, I can’t look at the Manhattan skyline without seeing ghosts.
And, five years and so many more deaths later, the secrets continue to dribble out. Yes, the people whose job it was–is–to protect us were warned. And did nothing; no actually, maybe they ridiculed Ashcroft for taking Tenet seriously. “We don’t swat flies.”
I can well believe that, in her own mind, Condi Rice believe it is incomprehensible that she sat there with Tenet in July 01, heard that presentation and did nothing. She cannot accept the weight on her conscience–who could? But that is what happened.
sonate….I can’t point you to any source, but Ashcroft abandoning commercial flights was in alot of newspapers. I can recall reading of it in the Dallas Morning news, for instance. I think the reasoning at the time was that “he” might be a target of the bad guys, foreign or domestic.
Ghostman
Alison@56..see 55..shredding trucks aren’t needed, de-accessing the records is just as effective and cheaper.
I have a ton of questions about all of this…
Why did we have to learn about this from a book published 5 years after the fact?
Who made the decision not to include any mention in the Commission Report of the July 10, 2001 meeting? How are lessons learned from mistakes if all of the mistakes are not revealed?
When the 9/11 Commission Report came out, and the July 10, 2001 meeting wasn’t in it, where were George Tenet and Cofer Black?
Why does it appear that every effort was made to protect Rice from any share of the blame?
Who decided that there was nothing to be gained from the president, vice-president and cabinet members having to face the truth that they screwed this up, and screwed it up badly?
Was this another political decision? And if so, who made it?
Who decided it was okay to blame the FBI and the CIA, but the people whose job it was to make decisions on the intelligence they were provided get a pass?
Am I the only person who, when I watched Rice’s public testimony, felt like I was watching incompetence in action?
At what point does one’s duty as a citizen transcend book sales?
What else is missing from the Commission Report that we don’t know about? And how long will it be before someone finally tells us what those missing pieces are?
djinn @ 57
With respect, she is a pathological liar which is easily seen in all the continued claims about WMD, and the alleged association between Al Quaeda and Saddam the most prominent.
You are not alone in continuing to feel the personal pain. A group cheered each 9-12 returnee from NYC at the train station as each retrieved his or her automobile. There’s now a bronze plaque at that station with the names of those who didn’t make it out. I walk past it every day.
Ghostman (58):
October 4th, 2006 at 6:36 am
” I can recall reading of it in the Dallas Morning news, for instance.”
Thanks. I’ll try and check it out.
Tom Friedman (Times Select) has an article this morning declaring he wants the Democrats to win by only one vote in both the House and the Senate because a slim margin will force the Democrats to govern from the center. I somewhat agree because as much as I want the Democrats to win, this country cannot afford the abuse of overreaching power again by any party.
Steve @ 35
9.11 required some very sophisticated planning or massive amount of luck to pull that off… or what you dismiss… some “help” from people on the “inside”.
What I do know is that the 9.11 commission did not reveal what when down that day. The truth is still out there.
When you look at how the Nixon and Regan players are recycled again to raise up the unitary exective and re asset USA hegemony around the world.. you can see the events as orchestrated to have the USA erase the memory of failure in Vietnam. Eve Hnery the K is trying to got a re do on the war thingy!
People who lust for the kind of power that these guys play with… and the amount of money to be made.. nothing is off the table. We are not even pawns in their game…
I wouldn’t put anything past these guys up there on top. ANYTHING.
From the McClatchy article:
Genoa, Italy. The meeting where they set up air defenses because they were worried about terrorist attacks using airplanes. (One of the incidents mentioned when everyone was realizing what a lie Condi’s “no one could have imagined” was.)
The threat to that meeting was what Rice was focused on after the briefing.
She was National Security Advisor, be she only got really worked up about protecting Georgie’s ass.
From http://www.thinkprogress.org
Grrrrr.
Rayne @ 50
Rayne, I wanted to raise this question with Sydney Blumenthal on Sunday, but arrived too late and my questions have gone unanswered.
Does anyone know if the National Archivist has any oversight? And is it possible for Weinstein to rewrite the history on the Bush Junta.
OT- Fox News now reporting that Foley is a Democrat ….
And I’d like to know more about why Ashcroft stopped taking commercial planes prior to the attacks.
No one will take responsibility for their own imcompetance…least of all Bush, Cheny, Rummy, Rice, Ascroft, Powell, even Tenet. People in those positions only accept GLORY and shove off responsibility for failure on their staff or others… never ever their own failings.
worried sick @ 39
You have a while more to bite your nails… the USS Eisenhower and its battle group are due to leave Norfolk today (that’s presuming they’ve gotten their rush-rush done to finish up what they need to be seaworthy). They are supposed to be on station off the coast of Iran by Oct. 21st.
Anne @ 60
She was head of national security during the worst national security failure in our country’s history. In any sane administration, she would have been fired as soon as the immediate crisis was over, along with the Secretary of Defense, at minimum.
The Condi Tenet Black meeting appears to have been reported by Time in 2002.
Could 9/11 Have Been Prevented? Time Magazine August 4, 2002
ccmask@31: Residents of Minn & surrounding states haven’t forgotten Jacob Wetterling. CNN aired Patty’s ad yesterday & Joe Scarborough last night with NO mention of the Wetterling tragedy or Patty’s work to protect children. Patty’s ad has probably been aired elsewhere in msm. If so, has anyone seen if Jacob has been mentioned?
Apologies in advance if I cover something already stated above, this is a sneak posting from work……………….
Following the State Dept confirmation of the July 10 meeting, I read a comment on Think Progress that it occurred in the same time frame as the FBI Phoenix Memo (terrorists in flight school).
I have a strong feeling that Tenets staff did in fact “connect-the-dots”. If so, some high level people committed serious offenses of omission or dereliction.
via digby – an excerpt from a letter discovered in the raid that killed zarqawi:
“The most important thing is that the jihad continues with steadfastness and firm rooting, and that it grows in terms of supporters, strength, clarity of justification, and visible proof each day. Indeed, prolonging the war is in our interest, with God’s permission.”
Sally #63 — I could agree after a Dem win of the White House in 2008, but not before then, for one reason:
Joe Lieberman.
If both houses of Congress become a Democratic majority, investigations and hearings into misconduct and incompentence in governance will begin. The biggest of all is the conduct of the White House.
And Joe could not be counted on to caucus with the Dems if the majority was only one vote.
It is imperative that Ned Lamont win in CT, and that a Democratic majority in each house be more than one vote. A 2/3 majority would be a bit much to ask, nearly a dream, but between now and 2008, it represents the best scenario to undo the damage and protect our democracy.
After 2008, I’d really like to see a viable third party emerge, not just a scant majority.
sonate,
don’t know if the source is covered (probably, this guy’s thorough) but try googling Paul Thompson, who has produced (on the toobz and in book form) the definitive 9/11 timeline.
I imagine he will be frantically updating as we type.
DefJef @ 6″
You couldn’t be more on spot with your observation. It is revolting to think that somebody actually desires to be in a war situation, but all the actions of our government speak to that conclusion.
It is telling that the motives for starting the war are shrouded in secret. As with so many things, the answer is “follow the money”. The war would be a bonanza for the reconstruction industry even without war profiteering. But profiteering makes it twice as sweet for the Haliburton’s in this case. The true interests we are protecting in Iraq are the interests of the reconstruction and defense industry – democracy is just a smokescreen.
susan @ 67
The archivist is an administrative position, and I doubt he could mess with the contents of the archives in any official way (letting people plant stuff there clandestinely and illegally, sure.)
But there are a lot of dedicated professionals who work at the Archives and the Library of Congress. Think of the librarians with the Patriot Act — I find it hard to believe that in the current climate, much would get past them without it coming out.
Why would al-queda possibly want to kill Bush? If their goal is the destruction of the United States, they have the perfect candidate already in office.
BQ, Sonate — think you’re looking for Cooperative Research’s 9/11 Timeline.
Absolutely the best source; I used it as a source for two links above.
Redshift 65—Thanks! I’ve been looking for that paragraph for the last 10 minutes, driving me nuts. Unable to find it.
Put the action about Bush together with the Ashcroft bit and you come to the same conclusion that the torture bill pardon provisions force you to: these people look after themselves first, and only.
Sally @ 63
I have to ask first: what is Tom Friedman smoking? George W. Bush won in 2000 by only a single vote.
Also, from talking to staffers in my Blue-State Rep’s office over the past year, they are steaming from years of having absolutely, positively no power in the House. There is exactly 0 chance they are going to play nice even if the margin is only one vote. Maybe Tom Friedman should get out there and talk to someone on the ground once in a while.
BQ (77)
October 4th, 2006 at 6:54 am
Thank you.
#16 “I’d really like to see and am hoping that the ‘Jersey Girls’ regroup to hammer this story. It would seem to be their ‘mushroom cloud.”
We are all the ‘Jersey Girls’ now.
I believe that we have all had our mushroom cloud. I have commented over and over that the Dem leadership has be negligent in getting the truth out over the MSM. We are preaching to the choir in the blogs. We simply must get this information out to people who do not read progressive blogs.
If the leadership won’t do it, it is up to us. Is it time that we start holding demonstations outside our local television and radio stations and newspaper offices? Is it time to march on the major networks in New York? It may very well be that the only way to break through the ‘glass doors’ of the MSM is with rocks and sledgehammers.
montag @ 70
And if Iran doesn’t work, these many years later there’s North Korea which John Bolton is threatening.
Defjef@64..anything could be possible with these criminals; however, I think the inside help was an active decision to do nothing about the threat. Where they went wrong was to underestimate the ability of “A-rabs” to hit multiple targets. Which resulted in the need to do Afghanistan before Iraq and screwed up the war schedule.
Sally @ 63
The Republicans already control the Executive and Judicial branches.
I believe the era of the Republican filibuster is just around the corner.
Sally @ 85
Unfortunately, NK seems to be obliging him….
Uncertainty was probably their best defense against an attack, and they seem to be throwing that advantage away.
The nomination process of the National Archivist was changed a couple of years ago. A depoliticized process was eliminated, the Clinton appointee was removed, and Bush put in his own guy, Weinstein. Here’s a link from the Nation, and one from the Special Libraries Association.
The kicker is the one from the Society of American Archivists. They knew what kind of danger this was.
The blood of every single 9/11 victim is all over every one of these Bushco fucks. My god how can they live with themselves!
thanks Rayne,
I was surprised it wasn’t in my bookmarks.
thanks to you, now it is ;-)
Sharkbabe @ 90
They’re Republicans
S.3930, passed last week, (aptly nicknamed by knuckledragger at 10:46 on last night’s Late Night Thread: but it’s too vile and accurate for me to repeat here) effectively made Bush a king by abolishing habeus corpus and retroactively pardoning past torture.
Bush can now put any U.S. citizen in jail, for any reason, for as long as he wants, without the right of appeal. Without habeus corpus, the rest of the Bill of Rights isn’t worth spit. IANAL YMMV
Friedman will have to go a long way to convince me what is “centrist” about most of our current leaders. So called conservatives, such as Robert Bork, have caved every bit as much as so called liberals. These people reinstituted a
fuckingmonarchy.It has long been my personal belief that this administration allowed 9/11 to happen– not the CIA or the FBI the boots on the ground, but the political appointees. I wish I believed they were just incompetent, but I cannot. Everytime I hear Boosh, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, etc. open their mouths I hear lies– never the truth.
If we are ever to get to the truth, it will be when we take the house majority in November. It will be painful to hear what I believe will be much more and worse than we suspect, but then and only then can the healing can begin. It looks more and more likely that the Commission’s Report contributed more lies neatly layered on top of the existing, steaming pile of prevarication. Unfortunately, the truth will expose the dangers to our national security that these goons have exposed us to.
We can handle the truth!
Rayne@76..IMHO a third party movement after ‘08 (if we are not in the camps) would be a mistake. I think our frustrations with the Dem. party are better addressed one primary at a time. Remember Ralph Nader(may he rot in hell)
Contemporary reporting on Ashcroft:
So he stopped taking commercial flights on July 24th, after receiving the briefing. There’s later reporting to suggest that he still took commercial flights for private trips, but the NYT described it as conspiracy theories. Uh, now we know.
Thanks pseudo in nc. Always nice to have you on a thread.
yippee! I made it to an update! (even if you did spell my name wrong, Christy! :) )
Thanks, John. What’s good about that CBS News report is that it’s from July 2001, and hasn’t been updated since, which makes it more valuable than retrospective reporting. When I heard about the July briefing, I wondered whether it extended to Ashcroft, and McClatchy’s confirmation was staggering. Briefed on July 17th; no longer taking commercial flights by the 24th.
Paul at 98 — Sorry, I updated on half a cuppa coffee. Will fix it! ;-)
OT..Kirk Fordham lawyers up (the guy who tried to bribe Brian Ross)
Steve #95 — Nader is one thing. Perot is another. Perot, in spite of his lousy VP candidate, made serious headway into both the Repug and Dem base.
I think there’s an opportunity for a socially liberal-fiscally conservative movement. There’s also an opportunity for an environmental-libertarian movement. It comes down to both the right personalities and a strong organization.
Dems will be salvageable only if they can beat the DLC-types and their sycophantic, leech-like consultantocracy into submission.
Rayne @
20
Willie has repeatedly denied this ever happened. I heard him discuss this issue more than once on his ill-fated local radio show. He says it is urban legend.
pseudonymous in nc — the other part of the puzzle we’re forgetting is that the FAA issued not one, not two, but FOUR hijacking alerts between April and July of 2001.
The FAA had enough information to merit sending warnings throughout their system, advising the industry there was a threat of hijacking…but Condi doesn’t know jacksh*t?
We could at least get better f*cking liars of a higher calibre appointed to office, you know?
Words from a former prosecutor that ought to make any savvy lurking reporters here at the Lake salivate, and run for their sources: “Well, this could get interesting.“
Thanks, Christy.
(And John Casper, I’m glad knuckledragger’s nickname for that bill wasn’t too vile and accurate for you to pass along the time stamp for those of us who missed it. It’s truly spot on. Thanks!)
I am having an argument with my GOP co-worker. I’m telling him how FOX news last night was calling Foley a Democrat (I read it here last night.)
Gopper saisd if I can get him a link, he will change his homepage to MSNBC from Fox.
I know you guys aren’t my research monkey’s but the boss is in. Any help will be appreciated.
Just like Foley, this stink is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. The boy has called “Wolf” too many times. His only way out now is to call “Tiger.” But that has risks now there is blood in the air…
I think Scooter can forget about a pardon over the next 12 months (but Bush has always been loyal and oblivious to public concern).
Balrog @
36
I think that is an outlier (from a few days ago?) But the fact is, Lieberman consistently polls at 6% points over Lamont. It has been stuck there pretty much the whole time.
As I said yesterday in a comment, hoping Schlessinger does better than 6% or that Lieberman’s bad place on the ballot or just making fun of Joe — none of these are going to win the election for Lamont without a serious strategy for reducing Lieberman’s numbers or creating a far superior ground game. And the only way to do either or both is for the Democratic leadership to stomp on Joe with both boots on.
Read Chris Bowers and weep:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/10/3/12524/6050
jere @
4
After all the malfeasance and incompetence with coverup; it’s the sex that seems to sale (sail?). I wish it were otherwise. The US could really benefit from substantive debates. I feel like we are descending to the status of a 3rd world (or South Carolina) backwoods government. It is embarrassing.
Here ccmask:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..30906.html
Sally @ 63
Considering that the government now is very close to being a complete totalitarian state, the Goldwater Republicans would look liberal. It’s going to be a bumpy ride.
i heart jane — I hear you, but this item remains an open item on the Cooperative Research timeline.
I trust the timeline more than I do anybody connected with this administration.
ccmask @ 106
crooks and liars has the screen catch from O’Reilly’s show.
The Republican “leadership” knew the attacks were coming-that much is clear. Privately they said “bring it on” as they knew in advance the political advantage they would reap in its aftermath. I think that it is unlikely that they had an active role in its planning, however, because this bunch is far too incompetent to have pulled it off.
Why is the content of this meeting secret? If the content of this meeting is largely similar to the Aug 6th PDB which has been declassified, perhaps with more detail, why can’t we, the people of the United States, the people who are targeted and who have paid a price for terrorism, why can’t we see the minutes or the Powerpoint presentation from this meeting?
What are they hiding?
OBL is behind this, Check.
They are going to use planes, Check.
It will be spectacular, Check.
New York is a possible target, Check.
Terrorist cells were in the United States, Check.
I think we’ve all seen this play out on TV on 9/11/2001. So why is this information still considered secret? Other than to protect the guilty — Rice, Rummy, Ashcroft, etc. — I don’t get it.
Ashcroft’s testimony to the 9/11 Commission:
Reporting on this, Sheryl Gay Stolberg described speculation about Ashcroft’s decision to switch to government flights for official business as ‘conspiracy theory’. I think someone should ask Ashcroft about that testimony.
So in the talk about Ashcroft, has anyone read his newly released book?
He wouldn’t answer any substantive questions on NPR’s ATC the other day, always citing national security or similar logic (such as when Gonzalez came to his hospital room to override Comey’s rejecction of domestic spying — he did assure the listeners that the fact that he didn’t override Comey was proof that our system is working.)
NYT quoted by Christy:
To connect the dots: Tenet received his medal to STFU.
ccmask #106 — in case your coworker doesn’t want to visit a “liberal” site for proof, you can send them to YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn7qCzV5sNM
Appears briefly at beginning of short clip.
Angie! Thanks! You’re the best. I’ll let you know what happens.
angie @ 94
angie,
same here. I just can’t buy the utter incompetence angle, much as they are selling it with all their whorish little beings. (Run of the mill incompetence is one thing, but this…) I remember reading a book long ago (so many titles, so few brain cells, can’t remember it), and the chapter on the number of “what would the standard procedure be?” vs “what actually happened on 9/11?” comparisons really hit me. It just seemed like someone had ‘left our guard down.’
Like someone wanting a new car and leaving theirs unlocked in a crappy neighborhood. But this wasn’t insurance fraud, this was deadly. Maybe they didn’t think it was gonna be as big as it turned out to be – but they knew something was coming. And as long as the victims weren’t them, well, there are plenty more proles.
Rayne, Professor Foland, Johnny Lib, et al, thank you for your comments. My point is we should not allow any party, incuding the Democrats, to have a stranglehold on our democracy. Perhaps we should be looking at alternatives since I for one can’t see that our two-party system has been working. I do see the blogs as a viable way to course-correct our elected officials as bloggers are doing now. One of the best examples that bloggers didn’t let the Foley story disappear which the MSM would have been wont to do as soon as another potboiler came along.
ccmask @ 106
Huffington Post has the screen shot still up.
ccmask,
CrooksandLiars has a screenshot if you don’t wanna YouTube it.
Pollster.com
is a good sight for elections all over the country, state and Federal.
The last Rasmussen poll, September 14, had Ned down 2 points. Rasmussen uses an interview technique, not sure what that implies.
Most recent Zogby, September 25, also shows Ned down 2 points.
I agree with imm, Ned down by ten points, strikes me as an outlier. Let’s not forget, back in January, Ned was at 6% name recognition.
CCmask,
Here’s the link:
I knew that Foley must be a Democrat!
-GSD
Wow. Just. Wow.
A picture that says it all.
Just go look:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..010170.php
As Josh says, “Had Enough?”
So is anyone else tempted to spotlight this post to Chris Wallace and everyone else at FAUX?
Sally #121 — concur entirely; in the short term, we have such a massive clean-up action required that an alternative majority will be necessary. But after that, we should be doing a MUCH better job of oversight, the kind that a highly polarized system may not permit.
Would like to see BOTH existing parties start to clean their own houses (although Dems are much farther along on this road already, a la Joe).
ccmask @
106
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3570
;-}
ccmask @ 106
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2…..ls,00.html
Nothing new to contribute to the debate but it is known…
During Clinton to Bush transition, a plan was given the
Bushies to fight “AL Qaeda” along with warnings that
this was a very serious threat. After that none of
the neocons showed any interest in knowing about this
threat, or mobilizing the Government’s numerous security
agencies to prepare for “Bin Laden Determined to Strike
in US”, Aug. 6 memo. But the CIA and others were doing their
best to get attention, July 10 meeting (July 17 Rummy
and Ashcroft were given the power point presentation
also?) So “The System Was Blinking Red.”
So speculate…They had to have had another
super-secret Bin Laden/Al Qaeda policy. Bush and Ben Ladin
families were close friends and busines partners
through Carlyle Group. What, when and why was the real
policy. Lack of interest, incompetence? Or maybe they
wanted the 9/11 attack to succeed. Just sayin’ one
phone call warning to FAA would have prevented the
attacks on the Twin Towers.
What the hell did these people say while under oath, or did we not put them under oath?
I just got Paul Thompson’s 9/11 timeline book last week. Wow. SO much detail and research. The website is great too,but it’s nice to have the book form so you can read it away from the computer.
What strikes me is how the information is out there,but it’s so scattered,from big headlines to little blurbs in smaller publications,no wonder so many people are so badly informed.
The recurring theme here seems to be that they know heinous things and do nothing at all to stop them or help pick up the pieces afterwards.
Has this bunch of wingnuts,liars,thieves and predators done ONE THING right? I’ve seriously been trying to think of anything at all that they’ve done that actually helps America be a better place,and I got nothin’.
Talking about inconsistent stories, there is a rather amazing post this morning at AmericaBlogpicking apart the stories being told by Rep. Tom Reynolds’ (R-NY–NRCC-Coverup) Chief-of-Staff Kirk Fordham on why he tried to get ABC not to report on the nasty Instant Messages last Friday. (Was it to protect somebody’s sister, one boss or another, or the political fortunes of the Republican Party?)
And Fordham, after hiding out for a couple of days from interviewers, has hired a lawyer.
Bushco: Oaths? We don’t need no stinkin’ oaths. Oaths are for the intregity schmucks.
Rushton @ 116 makes the excellent point that these guys only excel at incompetance and could not have executed 9.11
But they do hand off ops to others like PNAC and groups with the agendas they support who DO DO the heavy lifting… “think tanks”
And don’t forget that elements WITHIN the US government have deposed Mosedeqh in Iran… Allende and recently tried to take down Chavez and Castro… Back ops ARE as american as apple pie. Look up “operation northwoods” and see how they think and plan.
They couldn’t do it.. but elements within this government could have done it… they DO have the smarts.
And are folks here already talking about the fact that the Republican Party wrote the resignation letter for Foley to sign?
Again, from AmericaBlog, analyzing reporting about Kirkham in the Los Angeles Times, I think:
The Bay State Librul @
11
READ THIS, re possible Libby pardon, then go contribute to the Marcy Wheeler book… there needs to be pushback against a pardon for Libby
OK, not Kirkham, but “Kirk Fordham.”
Must be high on coffee this AM.
I suspect that this Foley was not a newbie to “child molestation”. Doesn;t it seem more likely that he was only doing something he like to do… playing with underage boys sexually? Or was he just a big tease? What say you?
Not likely that someone will come forward and live to tell the tale eh?
Angie: It worked. He couldn’t believe that Fox would do that. I stood over his shoulder while he changed his homepage. lol
Thanks Peterr at 7:18.
ccmask @ 141
small pebbles…
ccmask @ 141
whoo-hoo! Now he’ll tell more goopers and the great unraveling continues! good for you– must have been nice to see the truth breaking thru!
Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss. I get so disgusted perhaps I’ll skip voting this time around. We the people had a chance twice to vote for Nader, he wouldn’t have been bought off I believe. Wellstone, what a fighter, such a shame he was murdered.
OT Rayne re: third party. Prior to ‘02 or so I would agree with you because the stakes were a lot lower. Bush1 or Clinton, Dole or Clinton is not the same risk as Theocratic-fascist police state vs USA prior to 2000. When I was an intern 35 years ago, one of the first words of advice, after never lie, was perfect is the enemy of good. I think that applies to our current and future political situation. (That said, I am really pissed at my party)
Excuse me if someone else has already posted this, but I saw Ashcroft on TV earlier this week pushing his new book and he definitely said he had not received the “Codi” briefing. In fact he was defending her by saying if she had supposedly received it.. why wouldn’t he have received the same one. Hope someone can trace this back to the television source.
ifthethunderdontgetya @
128
Great idea. Why don’t you do Wallace and nine others at Pox News. Let me know the nine other names and I’ll Spotlight this to ten others at Pox.
lina @ 113
Olbermann has to pick up on this. He takes such glee in O’Reilly’s winning streak as “Worst Person in the World.”
Too much news for someone with too much coffee this AM:
First, a former page now says the Republicans have been covering for Foley for 11 years, according to the Washington Post: FORMER PAGES SPEAK: Some Say They Felt Uneasy About Representative’s Attention.
Second, AmericaBlog has up the video of Brian Ross (ABC’s chief investigative reporter) on Larry King Live last night, talking about how Rep. Reynolds’ (R-NY-Coverup) Chief of Staff tried to make a deal for ABC to suppress Foley’s Instant Messages.
ahthis @ 148
here’s the link to the clip from the Today show:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15094068/
Prof @ 135
I’m left wondering: was Trandahl (the House Clerk at the time, who was informed about it) smart enough to lawyer up from the beginning? It’s been awfully quiet from that corner.
EXCELLANT!
I’ve been asking WHO ELSE had this briefig SINCE the state department acknowledged it as a fact;
rumsfeld, ashcroft, rice
and in a separate brief, Bush
HOW THE HELL DOES ANYONE CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THESE CLOWNS?
John Casper @ 148
John I will have to wait until I get home from work, I don’t want to jeopardize my source of income for Blue America…!
ccmask at 106 — C&L has a screenshot — it was during O’Reilly’s show and they showed the inaccurate graphic more than once.
Prof @ 151
Also, the 1995 date is significant, because AFAIK there were no IM services (other than maybe ICQ?) in those days. So whatever he was doing then, it probably wasn’t just “naughty chat”.
Professor Foland @ 153
Fordham will be fired by the end of the week. You can’t do PR strategy for a child molester and hope to keep your job on Capitol Hill.
Trandhal hasn’t said a word about this, as far as I know. I haven’t even seen a comment about him not returning phone calls. What do we know about him? Are there rumors that he’s “single”?
I was curious about Brian Ross’ absence from last night’s ABC World News Tonight broadcast. I thought perhaps he was on the road interviewing pages to corroborate possible new allegations. I guess he was just primping for Larry King.
Anne @
60
Lots of good questions, Anne…
that last… the Saudi involvement is page after page of blacked out comments… gotta learn more about that one day
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 155
Wise choice.
Excellent post, Christy — sent Redd an email re Republican depression.
On Rice, the interesting thing to me is how quickly someone in the Administration went to the National Archives to confirm the Condi meetings with Tenet/Black. That is not like this WH. Their initial reaction, via Snow, was to downplay all this. I suspect that the Cheney/Rummy part of the WH did the research and couldn’t wait to use it against Rice. There is a civil war going on inside this Administration. One wonders whether they are one more point-the-finger-at-Tenet away from having him go public and taking them all down.
Professor Foland @ 157
I believe one report last night or this morning, citing a former page, said he sent handwritten notes. Page offered one he got from Foley.
Comes under the heading of, “where there’s a will, there’s a way.”
OT but check this out from Cillizza’s chat today:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01321.html
angie @ 94
A fair position to take, I believe. But those who reflexively dismiss the possibility that 9/11 was this group’s “Reichstag Fire” underestimate Karl Rove. What warrants the claim that BushCo would sacrifice 3,000 in Iraq but wouldn’t in New York?
new thread: “Not Buying It”
DefJef @ 141:
At least one former page has said that they were being warned about Foley in 1995. It was in yesterday’s LA Times.
Johnny Lib @ 40
Agree. My point at 4. The GOP has known for years about this. The GOP leaked it to ABC. Wonder why. It is a huge distraction. They don’t care about Hastert. If they keep control of Congress, they get an new Speaker. Hastert is expendable. It is part of a bigger strategy and we don’t know what that October surprise is yet. But the last thing they want is for the American public to realize that they knew something big was coming in July 2001 and did nothing so they could implement their Iraq war, which was on the table from day one of this administration. They just did not get the fact that someone might fly airplanes into the World Trade Center. I also agree with John Casper at 18. But it is the topic of this post that they do not want to talk about the most. Bottom line, these people have got to go. I just hope the American people wake up to that fact. What is wrong with people in Connecticut? And finally, I would love to know what Kristen Breitweiser thinks of this latest revelation about July 10. Just read her book, Wake Up Call. It must be devastating for the people that worked so hard to get the Commission formed and get it to do its work. Unbelievable.
if i were the attorney for these jokers, my advice would be to find a spider hole in iraq and hunker down.
jere @ 168
I would disagree, but only on this basis–they’re the party that’s been screaming about family values for twenty-five years. This, on top of Iraq, Katrina, everything, is exactly what they did not want–because it’s flat in the lap of a Republican Congress, and that’s where the Bushies don’t want any trouble at all, because a Democratic Congress gives them trouble.
The public didn’t dig out the torches and pitchforks when they found out about the Aug. 6th PDB, so another revelation about not paying attention four weeks prior isn’t going to make much difference. That, right now, is a relatively small hit compared to the double-takes that are going on in the minds of the voters over the Republican leadership.
Whether this is the straw that breaks the camel’s back remains to be seen. But, I don’t see the WH doing this as a CYA stunt. Too much potential for damage to them, indirectly. They have to keep a Republican Congress, or Dubya’s “legacy” goes in the shitter. This is definitely not the way to ensure a `pug win.
Adam Walsh weighs in on the Foley thing on Americablog.
Bush knew. It’s the only explanation.
Lets not forget that Zacarias Moussaoui was captured mid-August 2001 because a flight school in Minnesota contacted their local FBI about his unusual “questions” about cockpit doors and slight patterns around NY City.
I think we can assume that, when Zelikow finally surfaces, he will claim that the meeting and its content couldn’t be published in the 9/11 Committee Report because it was all top-secret intelligence, and you know how far this regime will go to protect their operatives in the field (etc. etc. blah, blah, blah). This also explains why Ben-Veniste has kept his mouth shut about the meeting, and why he didn’t jump up and down crying foul when it didn’t make it into the Report (he would have been in contravention of several laws governing state secrets, etc. etc. blah, blah, blah).
So, there you have it.
Let’s not forget that in mid-August 2001 Zacarias Moussaoui was arrested by the FBI on a tip from a Minnesota flight school because he asked unusual “questions” about cockpit doors and flight patterns around NYC.
lina @ 19
I agree. I would also chalk up a sizeable part of the blame to the ideological blinders and know-it-all arrogance of the neoconservatives.
Neoconservatism is a Cold War ideology. Cheney, Rummy, Wolfowitz et al. were all knee-jerk Cold Warriors and Condi was a Soviet Union specialist. I think to these people, the only serious terrorist threat was from so-called “rogue states”–hence their obsession with Iraq and emphasis on missle defense at the expense of counter-terrorism prior to Sept 11.
Al Queda had already been identified as the culprits behind the attacks on the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania as well as the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen. However because Al Queda is a stateless organization that, at the time, had a relatively small number of members, I believe Condi and the rest of the neo-cons did not consider them to be a major threat and essentially blew off Tenet’s warnings as being overly alarmist.
“‘What I am quite certain of is that I would remember if I was told, as this account apparently says, that there was about to be an attack in the United States, and the idea that I would somehow have ignored that I find incomprehensible,’ Rice said.”
Incomprehensible, indeed.
defense mechanism Psychology Any of various usually unconscious mental processes, including denial, projection, rationalization, and repression, that protect the ego from shame, anxiety, conflict, loss of self-esteem, or other unacceptable feelings or thoughts.
repression – (psychiatry) the classical defense mechanism that protects you from impulses or ideas that would cause anxiety by preventing them from becoming conscious
(boththe freedictionary.com)
I wake up in the morning with a sense of foreboding of what I’m going to find in the newspapers and blogs. Yesterday in California Bush hinted that OBL will be found soon and that we are going to be attacked again and the Democrats are just whining, criticizing, blah, blah, blah. Rove has promised the ‘Thugs an October surprise. These revelations or proofs about 9/11 make me very worried that the same type of deception is going to come up again soon, before the election. I agree totally with jere further up the thread: we and the Democratic candidates need to talk about this and the Iraq war constantly so that if something happens, the public will see the set-up. The comments Frist threw out on the Taliban and the Brits making a separate peace with the Taliban alarms me too. Call me Eyore if you wish, but we can’t be distracted by other stories.
Ashcroft or someone on his team paid attention. This is the missing link of what previously appeared to be a odd coincidence or conspiracy theory.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..3601.shtml
Do the hardware stores in D.C. have enough rope on hand?
that Froomkin article…
even with mention of the Woodward interview discussing Bush, even with count including “Bush Administration”…
Bush = 36 references
Cheney = 15 references
njr @ 182
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00879.html
While it can be proven that Condi and others got briefings, it cannot be proven that any of them understood those briefings. This could be the new Rove strategy: we were not up to the job then, but we are now.
I’ve been saying this for years: The Bush administration purposely turned a blind eye to the Al Qaeda threat pre-9/11.
- They were suffering from low approval numbers in the summer of 2001.
- They were about to be dragged into the whole Enron/California Energy Crisis embrolio.
- They had been planning this transformation of the Middle East for years; all they needed was a pretext.
They let it happen because it was exactly the “new Pearl Harbor” they needed to galvanize public opinion into supporting their wars and to allow them to clamp down on freedom of the press and other civil liberties.
They are a bloodthirsty cabal of illigitimate usurpers of power. They need to stand trial for their crimes against this nation and humanity.
elliottg @
179
Yes! Exactly! I was late to this thread but the first thing I thought when I finished reading it was Ah Ha! It is amazing how much this all ties together as we get more and more pieces.
I’m glad someone else had the same thought.
– MarkusQ
P.S. As for missing pieces, my current favorite under reported story is the fact that with now have documents showing that Rove (via Abramoff) leaked the fact that we were going to be invading Iraq to foreign militants in March of 2002.
For those of you keeping track at home, that’s four months before the events recorded in the Downing Street Memos, and almost a year before they bothered to tell congress and the voters.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/1/0185/88184
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/008903.php
Ashcrofts timing makes his use of charter flights absolutely damning. Rice was briefed about the terror threat on 7/10/01. According to recent reports, Ashcroft received the same briefing somtime the following week, 7/16-20/01. And according to CBS news, it was Thursday, 7/26/01, of the next week that he began to eschew commercial flights.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..3601.shtml
I have not taken the time to read all the comments, let alone all the essays and blogs on this subject. However, I wonder if anyone has looked into the reports that John Ashcraft, sometime in mid 2001, stopped flying on commercial passanger jet aircraft.
Did he in fact do so? And…….was it after he was briefed on the CIA intelligence?
Would not the answer to those questions make for some great conversation?
So the Bush Administration’s top guns are all briefed in July that al Qaeda was planning an attack on American interests, although it seemingly didn’t specify inside the U.S.
That makes the Presidential Daily Brief titled “Bin Laden determined to strike in US” the smoking gun, the capstone piece of intelligence that ought to have generated a nationwide alert. If, of course, they had any interest at all in anti-terrorism, which they didn’t and probably still don’t…
Leopold (FWIW) has dug out another hitherto forgotten wire story from the same time frame:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/100406J.shtml
If the FBI knew, Ashcroft knew.
If Tenant briefed all the biggies in the administration about an impending attack was the intelligence apparatus as broken as the radical ‘reform’ that followed 9/11 implies? Also how can the ‘reforms’ make the country safer if the real problem was that the deciders just weren’t listening?
Umm,regarding Tenant’s prospective tome, he’s required to vet the pre-galleys through the CIA, so given the current politicalization of the leadership, I’d be surprised if anything shocking comes out.
Although, given the demonstrated competence level of the current administration and their lackeys, they might pass on something they don’t realize is shocking to the reality-based crowd (i.e. Americans).
lina @
19
Let me first point out that the FBI was under Ashcroft, and Ascroft was briefed in July 2001. The problem was failure of the Attorney General to tell the FBI, not failure of the CIA to communicate. Tenet’s communication was what you do in the last instance when it appears the people you are talking to at lower levels show insufficient urgency. You get the top guy involved.
Which leads to the much larger implication. Rice, Ashcroft and Rumsfeld all had the briefing that the CIA was certian that al Qaeda was going to strike the U.S. homeland very soon, and no one acted. Except Ashcroft, who stopped flying commercial.
There is no way those three would have decided not to act on their own. They were told by either Bush or Cheney for Bush not to act.
Without clear instructions from Bush or his deputy Cheney, any single one of them who did not respond to that briefing was setting himself/herself to be hung out to dry after the al Qaeda hit. The first question each of them asked Tenet was “Who else has gotten this briefing?” They are all too savvy not to have asked. So they all knew they were not the only one who had gotten the briefing. They’re all to smart to overlook the possibility of becoming a scapegoat and knowing how to protect themselves from that happening. The word not to act had to have come from the very top.
There is no question. Bush was directly responsible for not avoiding the 9/11 attack (even if he delegated the job to Cheney.)
This was directly Bush’s fault, and it clearly is both Treason and a High Crime. No misdemeanor here. With Hastert on the way out by January, it will be very interesting who becomes Speaker since he may be in Gerals Ford’s position shortly.
My scariest thought is that knowing that if they lose the House there are strong grounds for impeachment, there may be no bar to Bush or cheney ordering an attack on Iran.
The orders to our fleet told them to leave port October 1, which places them on station near Iran October 21. This from The Nation 09-21-2006:
[Via Billmon who, thankfully, has given up has pledge to quit blogging.]
This next three or four months could be as interesting and dangerous as the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis. And my bet is that Aminehejad (Spelling?) may be less crazy than Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.
9/11 …Couple of things I have had a problem with. Coleen Rowley could not get her supervisor’s to pay attention to the odd stuff going on with flight schools etc. One higher up was interested but did not pursue it…concerned about his career. Seems like it would have been good for his career to report on up the ladder. Esp. since Richard Clarke and George Tenent were on top of things. Sounds like there was a block. What was the reason? Why did Ms. Rowley take her memoes to senators peosonally rather than mail them? Why was it business as usual for Dick Cheney to be doing war games and all the planes who could have intercepted the hi jacked planes get such confusing messages they didn’t know where to go to intercept. You have to have blind and deaf faith to believe the official conspiracy story.
Now, where would Tenet and Cofer have gotten the strange idea that they’d been given the brush-off by Condi Rice?
Just because she passed the buck…er, said she would immediately pass the terrorist threat information onto Ashcroft and Rumsfeld? (And as Paul Lukasiak noted above, Powell apparently was left out of the “intelligence” loop…as well as Cheney and Bush).
What the hell was Condi Rice doing as head of the National Security Agency? She was acting more like she was sitting at the front reception desk at some corporation who would refer anyone that came into the front office to one of the good-ol’-boy “decision makers” in the executive suites.
Anyway, I can see how Tenet and Cofer felt like they got the brush off. They were calling for immediate action to address the al Qaeda terrorist threat, but obviously Condi Rice couldn’t be bothered, nor apparently could any of the other top-level elitist Bush people who had transcripts of the July 10, 2001 Tenet/Cofer/Rice meeting placed on their desks.
And the excuse rolled out by Rice and other PNAC Republicans that the summer of 2001 terrorist warnings were not “specific” is just really, really lame.
For example, let’s imagine that Condi Rice, instead of being NSA chief, had been the police chief of a small town. In this scenario, a policeman on a beat picks up a rumor that some bank robbers are in town who are planning on robbing one of the local banks. Furthermore, rumor has it that they’ll be taking public transportation to the bank.
Unfortunately, police chief Condi Rice doesn’t do anything, and the bank robbery happens. And her excuse: no “specific” bank was mentioned in the rumor. And besides, no one could have ever imagined that bank robbers would take a bus to go commit a crime.
And then, after the bank’s been robbed, it comes out that police chief Condi Rice, charged with protecting her town from bank robbers, instead of aggressively acting on the “tip,” passed on the “rumor” information to people in the mayor’s office.
Unfortunately, especially for the innocent people who died in the bank robbery, the mayor was on vacation, so no effort was launched by those in charge to stop the bank from being robbed. No attempt was made to catch the bank robbers before or as they boarded the buses. No coordinated search was conducted to grab the bank robbers in their hideout. And people died.
And what were the people doing who’d brought this bank robbery plot to the attention of their higher-ups. They kept trying to get the attention of the “decision makers.” They were running around with their “hair on fire.” But without any “command” decisions being made by those in command, no coordinated anti-bank robbery plan was ever implemented. And people died.
In upstate New York at about 7:30-8:00 AM on the morning of 9/11, there were local news reports of the U.S. Canadian border being closed – no reason given. Personal reports from people at the border crossing have the US Agents closing their booths and taking off. This was before hijackers even got on a plane. We’ve always wondered about that.