…but acceptance of responsibility for failures? Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch.
Republican Speaker of the House Denny Hastert continues his Sergeant Shultz defense — he apparently knows nothing. Oh, excuse me, he's "been saying that he doesn't remember [Republican Rep. Tom Reynolds] telling him" anything. (See the above YouTube. H/T to Ctblogger.)
Rep. Tom Reynolds, the NRCC Chair for House Republicans, is pointing the finger directly at Denny Hastert, according to the NYTimes:
The case has led to varying accounts from two members of the leadership. Representative Thomas M. Reynolds of New York, who runs the House Republican campaign effort and is in a close race, has acknowledged learning generally about Mr. Foley’s initial e-mail messages this past spring. Mr. Reynolds has said he raised the matter with Mr. Hastert, who said he did not recall the exchange but did not dispute that it happened.
“I did what most of us would have done in the workplace,” Mr. Reynolds told reporters in Amherst, N.Y., on Monday night. “I heard something, I took it to my supervisor.”
Rep. John Boehner, Republican Majority Leader of the House, is also pointing a finger at Hastert, who is looking increasingly like the "scapegoat most likely to be hit by a bus."
From the ABCNews Political Radar blog:
"I believe I talked to the Speaker and he told me it had been taken care of," said Boehner. "And, and, and my position is it's in his corner, it's his responsibility. The Clerk of the House who runs the page program, the Page Board—all report to the Speaker. And I believe it had been dealt with."
Please note that by saying that he talked with the Speaker about Foley, Boehner is reversing course and going back to his original position.
On Friday, Boehner told the Washington Post that he "had learned in late spring of inappropriate e-mails Foley sent to the page, a boy from Louisiana, and that he promptly told Hastert, who appeared to know already of the concerns. Hours later, Boehner contacted The Post to say he could not be sure he had spoken with Hastert."
According to today's radio interview, Boehner has gone back to saying that he did talk to Hastert about Foley.
Looks like it is every Republican for him or herself.
Speaking of herselfs, a local West Virginian has been sucked into the mix on this, with Rep. Shelly Moore Capito being the other GOP representative on the page board. She's been telling anyone in the local media here who will listen that she was out of the loop on this (you know, just like she was out of the loop about Jack Abramoff, and Tom DeLay, and KStreet and…). But that does raise a pretty good question: why did GOP Rep. Shimkus go to the RNCC chair Reynolds, rather than talking to his fellow Page Board members? Ahhhh…hello rug, allow me to try and sweep under you.
The LATimes is asking some questions about Rep. Tom Reynolds' current chief of staff — Foley's former Chief of Staff — Kirk Fordham:
Another former staffer said it was an oft-repeated story around Capitol Hill that Foley's former chief of staff, Kirk Fordham, would sometimes accompany the congressman to keep him out of trouble.
Fordham represents a link between Foley and House GOP leaders. Shortly after leaving Foley's office last year, he became chief of staff to Rep. Thomas M. Reynolds (R-N.Y.), chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee.
Reynolds has said he was told this spring about the e-mails that sparked the initial complaint about Foley.
Fordham has not responded to repeated requests for comment from The Times.
Word is that Fordham was loaned out to Foley by Reynolds when this scandal started to break. And that Fordham may have attempted to negotiate directly with ABC's Brian Ross to keep the contents of the perverted e-mails out of any story in exchange for Foley's cooperation with an interview. Glenn has some great questions on this.
And I didn't think I would be saying this, but Jim VandeHei and Dan Balz have some great coverage on the Foley scandal and its tie-in to all of the Republican mess and scandals and election issues for November — and it is well worth a read this morning.
…Republicans are bracing for ads that link previous scandals with the Foley case and ask, "Had enough?" Several strategists said this could be devastating in tight races. The most optimistic scenario offered by GOP strategists is that no new information surfaces and the controversy ends in the next five weeks.
Republicans have designated state Rep. Joe Negron as the substitute candidate in Florida's 16th District, even as Boehner and others denigrate his prospects.
Republicans say they are in grave danger of losing the seat of former House majority leader Tom DeLay (Tex.), as well as those held by Rep. Robert W. Ney (Ohio) — who agreed to plead guilty to corruption charges in the investigation into the activities of convicted former lobbyist Jack Abramoff — and Rep. Don Sherwood (Pa.), who has been embroiled in a scandal over an affair.
In addition, Republicans have largely given up on holding the seat of retiring Rep. Jim Kolbe (Ariz.), and strategists are pessimistic about retaining open seats in Colorado and Iowa and the seat now held by Rep. John N. Hostettler (Ind.).
Some Republicans also said Rep. Thomas M. Reynolds (N.Y.), the NRCC's chairman and one of the GOP leaders who knew about a non-graphic communication between Foley and a former page, could face an even tougher challenge for his Buffalo area seat. Reynolds and Hastert sniped at each other over the weekend about who knew what and when.
Why, now that you ask, yes, I have had enough!



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Fitz?
blame game!
fitz -
Wow, just snuck in ahead of that speedy lina.
Looks like we’re gonna need a bigger bus
great round up, christy – thank you, my head’s been spinning trying (and failing) to keep up!
OT back to Tenet…
Why doesn’t anyone ask Tenet about the meeting?
His new book, which he got $4M, entitled
“In the Center of the Storm” is due out
in February 2007….
If you were the publisher, perhaps it may
be advantageous to expedite, with all the
buzzing…
Jack
I wonder of Tenet has yet realized four million dollars doesn’t wash blood off of hands.
I guess the bigest problem for the repigs now is God didn’t provide them with more fingers!
Firedoglake:
the foley stuff is good old-fashioned politics and important to the outcome of the election but
could you folks also include at some point soon a column on the lamont lieberman race that covers not just one event or one short timeperiod but what has gone on there in the last several weeks, i.e., a sort of overview.
thanks
re Foley cover up: The NYT editorial today called the need for Republicans to hold on to power, above all else, their “decayed purpose.” I loved that description.
c-span1 looks like all-foley-all-the-time today
reynolds up now….
selise at 6 — I’ve been trying to piece all of this together for the last two hours. There’s a lot more, but it’s such a mess and I’m still trying to thread together the rest of the narrative. In all honesty, I cannot believe that all of these GOP leaders knew about bits and pieces of all of this for months and none of them thought about the ramifications of how this would look — let alone that their responsibility ought to have been to the safety of these pages first and foremost with party considerations a distant second — it boggles my mind. And the fact that they haven’t come out, taken responsibility for failures and put together a comprehensive plan on this rather than this piecemeal, finger-pointing dodge-and-weave on accountability? Sheesh…
Yesterday, I asked a member of our university staff who is quite aware of the world politically what she thought about the developing scandal about Foley and Hastert.
“What’s that?” she asked.
Do we have any idea how much further this must go before it really seeps into the American consciousness?
For those who wish the focus were on 9/11, Iraq, and Afghanistan, however, I believe that as it develops, this issue will be the one that unglues Republicans from their safe legislative seats.
Child predation and coverup.
That’s so easy.
If Hastert resigns, that will really get the issue going.
In short, one big revelation every 4 days is what I hope for. Just 5 weeks to D-Day now.
orion at 10 — we’ve got something in the works. :)
The Bay State Librul @ 7
I’ve been wondering why tenet isn’t asked myself
doesn’t make much sense at all
i want to find out who else was at the breifing
Aravosis thinks they’ve all agreed to let Hastert take the fall for this. And once both the Washington Times and WorldNetDaily call for your head–your remaining time asa Republican Speaker is probably measured in hours.
They can’t be off the hook once Hastert goes. Reynolds let his chief of staff actively try to cover this up last week. Shimkus abdicated his responsibility as chair to investigate (regardless of what Hastert ordered) and inform the rest of the page committee.
In all honesty, once blame is pinned on Hastert as where the buck stops, it’s hard for me to see what gets pinned on Boehner and Alexander, other than shrugging his shoulders from the beginning. And that, I think, will be easier to get away with once Hastert’s done. But maybe someone will remind me of something active they’ve done. (Not excusing the shoulder-shrugging, just realistically trying to evaluate what’s likely to stick and what’s not.)
But overall I’m not so sure Hastert resigns. Do so and you’ve pretty much signed the confession in front of you: “The GOP Leadership of the House had no interest in protecting its young pages from a sexual predator.” That’s so bad I think they’d rather tough it out and take their chances at the trial in November.
I read somewhere that the issues with Foley had been withheld from both Dem page managers and Dem pages. Anyone got a linky?
Lets see… what is the excuse du jur
-”You could not imagine”…
-”Its pretty well confirmed”…..
-”I don’t remember”….
-”No, I haven’t read it yet”….
-”We are so sensitive of the feelings of Gays”…
Oh I forgot one….. “Its All Clintons fault”….
EPU’d from downstairs (OT for this thread)
Dr. Bong @ 184
selise @
6
Really agree, it’s a very tight round up of the most salient points of a very rapidly escalating story.
Watergate was never this much “fun”. After the torture vote, I was in a total funk, but then this broke and the wall of water contiues to pour in. I commented to one of my atheist friends yesterday that god really does have a sense of humor. He agreed. The problem is that it is very dry humor, with much irony, and so they don’t get it on the right.
When the Bushies finally prevailed in the 2000 election, the Pollyanna in me said, “these guys are going to screw up so bad that they will kill the Republican Party for years to come. We will watch the 19th Century go through its final death thoes with these guys at the helm.” I had no idea that it would take six years to get here, and I never allowed myself to think that Bush would be as bad as he has been. I kept hoping I was wrong and that those media folks who said what a great guy he was were right. Unfortunately I live in Texas and had him for a governor before the whole country got him, but Pollyanna kept hoping . . .
Twisted Martini @ 18
ya,that was pointed out yesterday on one of the threads, i forget which one though
Prof @ 14
you bring up an interesting consideration from the GOP perspective. What’s worse: Letting this continue to drip for the next 30 days, with Hastert still in place? Or all the negative publicity of Hastert stepping down?
I’d like to hear Siun’s opinion on this vis-a-vis media crisis management.
Let me amplify what prof said #14. I drive to work and have the Boston AM News/Weather/Traffic station on. It’s not (actively) conservative; it’s the sort of AM news station every big city has. Not a single word has been said about this, even on Friday.
That’s the other reason I don’t think Hastert will resign. It will definitely break through then.
A C-Span caller explained this morning that this is all really Bill Clinton’s fault because he introduced the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy. Oh, and the gays, remember to blame the gays. Victoria Clarke, the guest on the program, opted “not to connect the dots in that way”, but generally agreed with the caller.
Saw a reference to this at Daily Kos and had to go look for myself:
WorldNetDaily: GOP unworthy of governing. World Net Daily is a right-wing rag.
and then the founder and CEO of World Net Daily really gets going:
and this right-winger “gets it” about what was really going on in the minds of the Foley 5 Corrupt Leadership Team:
Christy Hardin Smith @ 12
They covered it up for a long time.
The longer it stayed hidden, the greater their comfort zone.
This went way down the list of things to worry about.
They were therefore unprepared, and now its every man for himself.
to echo linda ellerbee – and so it goes……
have you had enough fellow citizens?? if not why not? this is what you get when one party controls all three branches of government!! wake up sheeple the alert has been sounded!!
Is it just me, or has anyone else wondered if Rove has decided to throw the oviously tainted Hastert under the bus in order to keep us all occupied while they continue to build those Haliburton camps and plan their strike on Iran? I mean, think about it…Bush could call Hastert to the Oval Office, demand his resignation, shut most of this down, and Score points. Why aren’t they doing it?
Christy said:
Doesn’t look like a “putsch” can happen to Hastert given the requirements of a physical presence to vote at a Repug caucus and the fact they’re all out of town campaigning.
But it sure looks and sounds like Boehner is laying the groundwork for either a November coup when the house returns to its lame-duck session or Boehner, and others like Reynolds, are trying to spatter enough mud on Hastert that he chooses to resign now.
All of this of course, is nothing but intra-party chest-bumping. Stuff that is so besides the point.
After all, both Boehner and Reynolds are up to their eyeballs in closing ‘em when the issue of restraining Foley’s predation came up last spring.
Just because they both now claim to have passed the buck onto Hastert, doesn’t clean the shite off from their own hands about the responsibility for “doing something”!
Kind of funny in a way, 3 pigs wrestling in the mud and then arguing about who’s less dirty.
Guess that kind of argument is the gold standard for Repugs when all you have to ever choose from is dirty, dirtier and dirtiest.
Hastert doesn’t remember key meetings. Rice doesn’t remember key meetings. Can we change the Constitution to require a certain level of memory abilities for elected and appointed officials?
professor foland -
from previous thread….revdeb posted link to londonyank’s diary “20,000 Sailors Go To War – Massive US and Allied Naval Deployment” at dkos re iran war prep. we were both interested in your take… hype or something to be concerned about?
The GOP: Pubic Enemy Number One
As much as I love FDL, I have to admit that there are other players in the investigative and framing effort.
Among them, AmericaBlog is among the best, including their discussion of Reynolds’ Chief of Staff — the Svengali behind much of this.
The levees of protection and cover up have finally been breached and it’s every man for himself.
“No one could have foreseen…”
me to me @
16
Ok progressive people–it’s time to look at J. Bush’s Florida.
Rep. Feeney is up to his eyeballs in vote machine rigging. And
there is a homocide involved in this one. Maybe Foley under
pressure will out a lot more in Florida’s Congressional
Deligation and all the Bush bro’s.
Professor Foland @ 17
I don’t think its an agreement that folks have made, but a bunch of independent assessments that all came to the same conclusion: Hastert is toast. All that’s left is for the others to figure out the best way to keep themselves from getting burned.
Oh, and how to keep enough republicans in Congress to keep their majority.
And how to position themselves for the coming shuffle of the Republican leadership: Who will the new speaker be (at least until January, if not beyond)? Who will head up the party caucus? Foley was deputy whip – who gets his position?
And how to frame this as an abberation – one bad apple.
Republican leaders can point all the fingers at Foley they want, but the mess is a lot, lot bigger than sex. It’s not about a single bad apple. It’s a symptom of power-obsessed hacks whose interests are seriously misguided.
They are more interested in power than governing.
They are more concerned about winning elections than living up to the Constitution.
They are more worried about appearances than reality.
They are more focused on holding onto their perks than holding anyone (the executive branch, their own membership, war profiteers, etc) accountable.
Abuse such as Foley’s is about power, not sex. In that regard, this is merely another episode in the long and sordid story of the values of George Herbert Walker Bush’s Republican party.
So when do you suppose moral scold Lieberman will weigh in on Foleygate? He has always been very quick to chastise sinners before. . .
Next thing you know Deborah Howell will be fair and impartial.
Professor Foland @ 17
All great points Professor Foland. I would add that I think the key at this time is Reynolds’ use of “supervisor” language. People can go to jail for “negligence” wrt rape when it concerns Federal Sexual Harrassment and workplace laws. I think Reynolds put that on the table, once he said, “I took it to my supervisor.” My wild ass guess is that Hastert’s lawyers will urge him not to resign, because that could be construed as admitting that he was criminally negligent.
I think that bodes well for Democrats going into midterms. That keeps Republicans fighting each other. It also might induce Rove and others to start releasing negative stories about Hastert or whomever they want to take the fall.
Their biggest political mistake was not sharing whatever they had with the Democratic leadership and the Dems on the page board. Now they can’t claim it’s “bi-partisan.”
JimPreston @ 26
Really? So the page school is the Army, now, is it?
OT re Lieberman in NYC:
On the last thread, *xyz asked this week or next week…answer it’s
today Oct 3rd at 4:30pm in GCT.
Suggestions for best talking points to counter Joe with today?
Perhaps we need to hear from Mr. Trandahl…the former Clerk of the House who had all kinds of hands-on operations with the pages and things Gay and Republican in nature. He was shuffled off to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation a year ago that is knee deep in oil money. http://images.google.com/imgre…..n&sa=N
…he is also a member of the Republican Unity Group, a gay conservative coalition with Texas ties into the White House and the Republican gay politerratti…
..he was also in charge of “tutor” hiring/firing of some sort, Had intimate knowledge of the page program
….
http://members.tripod.com/secretpage_1/
Been poking around on the internet and found this stuff…
I think we are seeing Phase I of the GOP’s “Who is to blame for us losing control of Congress” spinfest. The Bush people don’t want the conventional wisdom answer to be “Bush’s fault. We rubberstamped his crappy policies and that lost us the majority.” Rove would much prefer that the blame for the loss belongs entirely to Hastert. And Republicans certainly don’t want the CW to be “well, Democrats just beat us. They’re better than we are.”
When they lose the majority, they’re going to be pissed. The Republicans are going to want scapegoats. Heads rolling. Long knives. Clearly apportioned heaps of blame. Purges.
Does it sound like Hastert is getting any legal advice?
Christie—so good to see the WV Dems firing back at Capito and asking the right questions—like how you couldn’t know if the warnings had been going out since 2002; why’d your felloe Rs ignore your existence on the Page Bd—how effective are you? Nick Casey, St. Dem Chair had a good news release yesterday. Maybe Callaghan can give her a run for her money (former fed. prosecutor and guy who had the cajones to do the right thing on more than one case I had withhim)
Call me stupid, but is it really up to Hastert whether he remains as Speaker? Speaker is not an elected position, but a job determined by a caucus of the House majority. So why is everyone assuming that it is up to Hastert to resign? Why can’t the Republicans caucus him out of the job? Wasn’t Delay forced out by his colleagues? Seems to me the longer they wait, the more the damage.
Again, stupid question.
meta @ 47
Minimally, it sounds like he’s doing a poor job listening to any legal advice he may be getting. Fine with me.
OJS at 49—you are right. Per CNN, the phones are ringing to members of the R caucus to come out supporting Hastert—please oh please oh please
Drifty’s got it – that is a story that needs to get slow and massive buildup and play to be ebbing as Foley may flow.
Rice got the urgent messge in July. Apparently, so did Rumsfeld and Ashcroft.
Rice has denied the meeting. So has Ashcroft (who emerges from lobbyland to hit the morning shows and get fluffed).
Rice’s state Dept now says – oops, sure she had a meeting. But she didn’t ignore it, she told them to go talk to Ashcroft and Rumsfeld.
Ashcroft quits flying except charters.
Bush make vacaction plans.
Then you have the pdb – that “historical” doc. Bush doesn’t read; Rice plays piano.
Then CIA flies an agent down to interrupt the President’s vacation and re-re-remention that something bad is about to happen.
Bush calls it cya and makes more vacation plans.
The 9/11 commission appoints Rice’s co-author and pal Zelikow to investigate. Not much comes out except finally the pdb. Zelikow and BenVeniste interview Tenet, who tells them about the meeting (maybe meetingS). Zelikow doesn’t mention them in he report and BenVeniste is directing questions on why to Mr Z (rhyme with V?)
Bush fights the commission and fights in particular having Rice testify. Does she mention the meeting in her private testimony? Bc she doesn’t in her public and Tenet offers to testify publically on the meeting, but is not taken up on that piece of the puzzle.
Bush timidly agrees to appear but only if he can have Dick Cheney sit next to him.
Don’t you just wonder if it’s all out, even now?
And don’t forget – Ashcroft’s COS was in the Abramoff emails, promising to try to quash the Marianna’s security report for Abramoff’s client and Ring is playing basketball with Ashcroft and promising Ashcroft’s help (despite those pesky “underlings” that Ashcroft has working for him)
Even though they make a merry little band all by themselves – Ashcroft, Rumsfeld and Rice – you can’t help but wonder if they have anyone else invited to the party?
Last night I couldn’t sleep and tuned in here. I hazarded this guess:
So maybe what we’re seeing is not just lack of vigilance on the part of Hastert, or Reynold’s fear of losing a seat, but one loose piece of yarn in a big comfy sweater that will soon come unraveled.
I think that the reason they lost track of this one is that they are managing dozens of them: earmarks are dependent upon addiction and blackmail. Duke Cunningham’s prostitutes (male? female?) are not unrelated to Mark Foley’s emails.
snoboysdrift @ 38
Agreed. Foley was busy, busy, busy endorsing candidates all over Florida. And webmasters all over Florida have been busy, busy, busy scrubbing all mention of Foley from their websites. All Florida GOP candidates need to be asked if they took Foley money, and what they plan to do about it now. And they should be asked why they took the Foley endorsement off their websites. Make them have to explain it to the local Eyewitness News Team at their next little photo-op.
orangejumpsuit @ 49
Not stupid at all. My sense is that they want him to resign to preserve the appearance of party unity. My guess is that Boehner knows a lot more about this than Hastert. Boehner AFAIK, was Bugman’s hand picked successor and I think he really runs things, Denny is just a figurehead, for times like these. Denny may not be happy to take the fall for someone like Boehner and he (Denny) may know where a lot of “bodies are buried.” If so, there may be a lot of people who won’t vote him out.
My wild ass guesses at this time.
loubarr @ 51
I think that would be bad. For them. A move like that could be where the diehard wingnut base and the less brainwashed Republicans part company.
But speaking of this, have many of the House GOP caucus had anything to say about this, or are they all hiding under their beds and praying this will blow over?
Mary–we need a succinct summarist. h/t to Drifty and Mary for bringing it here..
Mary @ 52
I am just quoting to repost that, because it is sheer genious
G.O.P. = GROPING OUR PAGES
Raw Story is reporting the following: ABC to reveal who knew what, when… Soon…
Hastert’s not resigning.
There was a casual mention in one of the Abramoff letters, in the second PDF file, of keeping the DoJ people happy by giving them whatever they wanted – the letter was in connection to one of the frequent ticket requests – but it’s the list of ‘whatever they want’ that is really interesting. It includes limos and hookers. IIRC (it isn’t in front of me at the moment) drugs may also have been on that list. (I’ve also looked at the ‘octagon1′ letters. It looks like a personal e-mail name or a codename, apparently someone in the Middle East from the content.)
orangejumpsuit @ 49
The problem is that Congress is adjourned. If they get back together to caucus for the express purpose of firing the Number Three Man in the government for his incompetent bungling, that would be a huge story. It would be a mini-impeachment. Hastert is not some back-bench guy you can strong-arm out of there.
Caucusing gives the story new legs, and further distances it from Foley and makes it even more about the incompetent cover up. This is really a worst-case scenario for the Republican House.
So, whose idea was it to spirit Foley off to rehab? That really changed the whole dynamic. If he was still around, the story would be The Perv Congressman. But now it’s metastasized into something else.
Gonzales says they are only in a fact finding phase now…
cnn
driftglass
Breaking CNN…
Commercial airline hijacked over Greek air space…
More from Raw Story: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._1003.html
Cozumel– is this the suprise?
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 67
That’s a great catch. It puts the focus squarely on this Rehab center he’s at supposedly for alcoholism. None of the IM messages I read sounded as though Foley was the least bit inebriated.
You need to see the actual Reynolds press conference. What a freak show. There’s video here
angie @ 68
Turkish plane, has landed in Italy…
Another Raw Story headline: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._1003.html
Developing story:
Gnome de Plume @ 22
I was a senior in high school during the Senate Select Committee hearings into Watergate, and it was absolutely riveting. There was plenty of humor when Sam Ervin and Howard Baker traded their country lawyer stories.
And Watergate inspired some wonderful bumper stickers, like “Free the Watergate 500.”
And Mr. NJ Progressive went to a Watergate party, where you came dressed as your favorite co-conspirator. He bought a red wig to go as Howard Hunt visiting Dita Beard in the hospital.
Ah, the good old days. When more of the media challenged authority.
angie @ 68
LOL Angie. Nice edit ; )
Christy, Christy, Christy,
these are the same souless wonders who allowed one of their own to read a statement in to the Congressional Record smearing this child
from the good Congressman’s statement:
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001591.php
yeah I know, he’s Texan . . .
Cozumel @ 74
LOL and I just re- edited to take it out! It’s fun!
The paragraph I noticed in the LA Times story:
“Almost the first day I got there I was warned,” said Mark Beck-Heyman, a San Diego native who served as a page in the House of Representatives in the summer of 1995. “It was no secret that Foley had a special interest in male pages,” said Beck-Heyman, adding that Foley, who is now 52, on several occasions asked him out for ice cream.
Foley was elected in 1994. Sounds like he didn’t waste time. But that’s a lot of years of ignoring a problem, if the pages, and the interns, were being warned about him that long ago.
Exile on Ericsson St. @ 70
I competely agree. There are three youtubes and the audio is not great, but it is well worth it. The best part imho, is when the reporter asks Reynolds to ask the children to leave, so they can talk about “adult” issues. Reynolds wanted a photo op surrounded by parents with their children to obscure his rampaging negligence. It sounds as though his carefully orchestrated photo op could really backfire.
Reynolds presser -
Can You Say Human Shields ? I knew ya could
John Casper @ 9:00 am
Over how many months was Mark Foley sending instant messages?
In Mark Foley’s case, is his entering a rehabilitation center for alcoholism a euphemism for some other treatment that he’s receiving?
ET-
Don’t know if you are still here, but I ran your question by a legal eagle friend. Here is the response:
The answer is an emphatic “Yes.” From a statutory construction standpoint, he is most definitely “a possible enemy combatant.”
There is no escaping that conclusion. It is a black and white answer since the language is so broad.
However, from a constitutional standpoint, there are whole hosts of problems with LAWFULLY triggering any of the provisions of the Torture Act against him. See, Balkanization, Greenwald etc. or the Constitution, for that matter, but just for grins and giggles on that one.
The statute’s language sweeps more broadly than a Japanese fishing trawler. However, none of the provisions that could apply to ET’s situation are legally enforceable or constitutionally valid. That said, look who controls the DOJ, the Military and the Court system.
FWIW
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 80
Yes. It means that the whiskey was not well aged.
And N. Korea moves into position “North Korea said it would conduct its first nuclear test, and Washington warned it would respond to such an “unacceptable threat” to world peace.” (Reuters). Just as Japan wants to reverse it’s passive military, and there’s Dem. support in this response, won’t Iran feel left out.
OT – Larry King Live will be covering
FoleyGateHastertGate tonightP J Evans @ 77
I agree. Foley is “systematically targeting” underage pages over whom he has supervisory authority. That imo is another reason why Hastert’s exposure is so large. This is an unsafe workplace issue having to do with statutory rape.
DairyMaid, thank you very much.
angie @ 64
He went on to mention that anyone who actually finds a fact can look forward to being drugged, clothes cut off, and some time spent on vacation at an undislosed location.
This is America after all.
Here is is, Democrats. Here’s your nationalizing issue. Run against Hastert. He is an ugly, vile creature. Make him the face of the Republican party.
Here’s your message:
Republicans won’t fire Dennis Hastert. Democrats will.
Every Dem congressional candidate should run an ad showing a picture of their opponent and Denny Hastert. If your opponent is an incumbent, there’s a picture of him and Hastert out there. Demand Hastert’s resignation. Get a camera. Do it now. Start running the ad tomorrow. Make your opponent either defend Hastert or run away from him. Do it now. Because Hastert may be gone on Friday. But if you get that message out there, and they fire him anyhow, it’ll look like they’re doing it in response to Democrats. Like they’re scared of Democrats. Don’t let them arrange an easy exit for Hastert. Make it nasty.
Christy – here’s more information in response to a question you raised on the prior thread, but first, this breaking news from MSNBC:
Police: Amish-school gunman told wife he molested someone 20 years ago.
Here’s a link to a related story that will provide you with more information: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15113706/
Josh nailed it quite succinctly last night -
Let’s see: Who replaces Hastert?
They can’t pick Boehner — he’s tainted by PredatorGate.
They can’t pick Reynolds — he’s tainted by PredatorGate.
They can’t pick Dreier — he’s about as straight as Foley, and that’s not going to bring the evangelicals back to the fold.
In fact, they can’t pick anyone who’s been in the GOP House leadership over the past five years, because that person will have been tainted by the Foley scandal.
So who do they pick? Henry Hyde?
Excuse me?! Henry “Homewrecker” Hyde? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I don’t think so.
If they had any brains, they’d go with Walter Jones, but they won’t because he’s no longer marching in lockstep with BushCo.
John Casper @ 9:11 am -
I agree. Foley is “systematically targeting” underage pages over whom he has supervisory authority. That imo is another reason why Hastert’s exposure is so large. This is an unsafe workplace issue having to do with statutory rape.
How many other Congressmen do you think face exposure, its magnitude notwithstanding?
Our dear Ed*ward Teller, you may want to consider an underground safehouse. Be sure it’s wired with DSL.
John Casper @
69
There’s speculation that Foley is at a Scientology-run Tx center in Florida. It is most likely a cult-inspired brainwashing center with no connection to the standard Hazeldon paradigm for such treatment centers. No wonder he’s still texting. But the scientologists probably read the left blogs and have already confiscated his little, throbbing instrument.
cbl @
79
Remember Saddam in the first Gulf War patting the little British boy, Stewart on the head?
Seems like a creepy parallel to me….
The new Republican talking point soon to emerge:
“At least Mark Foley didn’t cut anyones head off.”
-GSD
Hastert looks like a pig who has just realized that everyone is ordering ham sandwiches.
Hijacked Turkish plane lands in Italy
ANKARA, Turkey – A Turkish Airlines plane carrying 107 passengers from Tirana, Albania to Istanbul, Turkey, was hijacked Tuesday and landed at Italy’s Brindisi airport, a company spokesman said.
Private Turkish television station NTV, quoting unidentified security officials, said plane was hijacked by two Turks to protest Pope Benedict XVI’s planned visit to Turkey next month.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200….._eu/hijack
Eugene nails it!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00937.html
Hyde is stepping down this year.
-GSD
angie and Cozumel – here’s an update on the airliner: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15116710/
Hugh @ 96
(evil grin) I’ll have a BLT.
I predict Hastert resigns on Friday. The Sunday puppet shows thrash about what a wretched pig Hastert was, past tense, and then the story is over on Monday. That’s what I think they’ll try, anyhow. And they don’t get together and caucus to throw him out. And they don’t caucus to replace him, either.
OT – yearly kos 2007 will be in chicago
GSD @ 99
Well, he can run but he can’t hyde.
siun will be glad
(i am too)
selise @ 103
Doesn’t the whole House have to vote on a Speaker? It’s not just a caucus issue, is it? Could a Democrat make a motion to reconvene to vote on a Speaker?
Alison @ 53
Hmmm…too busy stuffing their faces with “pork” to see that one of their “rotten apples” fell off the table onto the floor?
Ahhh…the burdens one has to bear when one sits royally upon the throne.
“Did anyone else see that “rotten apple” fall of the table?
No? Then more pork I say! More pork!
Pass me some more pork my gluttonous friends so we can have the strength to continue our plundering and pillaging of this naive lil’ hamlet.
And the village idiot reigned as King forevermore”.
When all else fails: Send in the clowns.
-GSD
mmmm. Pork.
Back on topic:
A DC insider friend of mine made a funny comment yesterday about who will end up under the bus and why.
He pointed out that if, Heaven forbid, the Republicans should hold on to the House, that there would be a skirmish for leadership positions, regardless of the present public display of their craven lack of care and accountability.
He said,”It’s like muscial chairs. Boehner, Hastert, Reynolds, etc…all want a seat, and when the music stops, someone will be left out.”
Denny has a target on his back…no matter what. So tossing him in a public display may be the easiest way to appease the base and move on. Or so they hope.
DairyMaid @
81
Just back from sign-waving at a busy intersection for our local borough elections. It was windy enough for the signs to wave themselves.
Thanks, DairyMaid, I feel so reassured by your friend’s informed comment. Actually, truly bizarre. To come in from standing in the cold wind on a street corner in Alaska, chatting amongst friends who are running against each other for control of the local government. Talking about our kids and their plans, the upcoming state football championships, and the demise of the GOP machine. Then to read that the crazies in DC have probably made me and thousands of other US citizens ripe for the extra judicial picking by our own version of Argentinian disaperacado escadrilles. Lo siento mucho, America…
Phoenix Woman -
always a pleasure to have you join us -
agree with all your conclusions above wrt Speaker short list – keep thinking someone (Shays) from the self styled moderates who’ve been forced to keep quiet the last 6 years could now easily stand up and mau-mau the Leadership – making the claim that having a moderate, appropriately outraged one of their own in charge could ’save the election’ and the veneer of decency for ‘em – glad their too busy saving their own asses for that to happen
“At least Mark Foley didn’t cut anyones head off.”
And better to fight the sexual predators in the chat rooms of our pages than in the streets of our cities.
Badwater @ 32
Ooh and don’t forget Libby,who forgets everything!
cleter @
106
Please look at the Constitution’s Article I, Section 2, Clause 5:
They don’t want to get together and fire hastert. That would be ugly and contentious. And they don’t want to then try to replace him. That would also be ugly and contentious.
selise @ 103
Here’s hoping Representative John Laesch (D – west of Chicago) will be the keynote speaker! Actually, this has become a probability in the last 24 hours, hasn’t it?
reddhedd at 15:
thanks. i’m glad to hear that.
firedoglake and its principals have put a lot into this race from the beginning.
whatever the outcome, i view lamont’s CHALLENGE to lieberman as the most important event in this elctoral cycle with respect to reshaping the democratic party to be what we hope and expect it to be, not what it has become – a party of consultants and entrenched pols whose scam is to solicit money from people registered as democrats.
I think it’s years. I think some of the IM’s were seeing are from 2003.
Yes, I most definitely think so.
It would not be unusual to be treated for both chemical dependence and sexual addiction. No one has access to his Medical records, so he is free to publicly state whatever he wants. Bob Ney just used the alcoholism ploy and it’s legion as the publicly stated excuse when Roman Catholic priests, Bishops, Cardinals go into “treatment” for what is obviously child molesting.
Inpatient treatment by nature is very restrictive, it’s not unlike jail and is a form of incarceration. The providers have very serious obligations to the public health. Allowing a sexual predator, unsupervised and or unlimited access to the internet, would probably be a serious breach of their Medical responsibilities. It would be like letting someone smoke crack, while billing them for substance abuse treatment.
Any decent treatment requires honesty and making restitution. I would be surprised if Foley had not routinely had sex with underage pages. That’s statutory rape. It’s a felony. You can get all the treatment/recovery you want, but you still have to repay your debt to society. If the addict doesn’t want to make restitution, I would question their committment to their recovery.
In cases like this, so often the parents don’t want the victims to go through the trial. That can leave the treatment facility as the sole arbiter of the perps fitness to “rejoin” society. Treatment facilities for rich child molestors have a lot of financial incentive to make that happen. As long as future victims are as quiet as past victims, the treatment facility has little to fear and much to gain financially from recidivism.
Others may be have better information about this. These are just my speculations and observations from personally watching the Roman Catholic Church mismanage this for the last twenty-years or so. It’s been going on a lot longer than that.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 115
So that’s the whole House, then? You don’t get a new Speaker without a quorum of the House? That would require a special session then, wouldn’t it? That would just be a nightmare for the GOP. What a shame.
Mad Dogs @ 107
I think it’s worse. I think that the threat of scandal keeps the elected representatives in line. It’s not that this stuff is anomalous: it’s managed. It’s part of the system. They need the threat of scandal to extort the vast rents they require from the government. In turn, the congressfolk need the cover of religious faith to get away with their behavior.
So Foley’s problem was not foul and disgusting behavior, it was that that he didn’t do it in the Watergate Hotel with corporate supervision.
Phoenix Woman @ 91
Keep an eye on Kay Granger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Granger
Ken Mehlman was Congresswoman Kay Granger’s (TX-12) Chief of Staff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Mehlman
The mighty wurlitzer is up and running and belching out:
“Paging Dennis Hastert:
Please come to the counter immediately and pick up your tickets for under the bus.
Breaking News:
Police: Amish-school gunman told wife he molested relatives 20 years ago.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15116710/
GSD @
108
heh. a clown running for mayor of Alameda….(small town across the harbor from Oakland).
I wonder if after treatment, Foley will indeed admit he is a pedophile and have to register with the authorities. That would be the least of it.
Ed*ard Teller @ 111
i may be one of those thousands too…. if receiving nonviolence training from members of the CPT in hebron and volunteering with ISM for an olive harvest in the west bank counts…
Well ET-
Your problem now is that if you are ever absent from the FDL comments for too long, you will have a posse of defenders raising a ruckus looking for you!
No scuba vacations without prior notification for you!
Ed*ard Teller @ 117
indeed, here’s hoping!
And you too, Selise!
Coz -
Kay Granger is an excellent guess – as authoritarian as they come AND a woman – what better cover ?!?!
“Oh Speaker Hastert, there’s someone here to see you” -
http://marklevinfan.com/Images/Vultures.jpg
Foley still logging into chat account with screen name linked to scandal
http://tinyurl.com/qnym7
(According to this Rawstory, he signed onto his AOL IM this morning)
here’s some fodder for more speculation:
emphasis mine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S…..sentatives
My, the Reynolds footage of his presser surrounded by chillin’is mighty disturbing……
Now there are reports of Bush and Cheney gearing up to raise money for Republican Congressman “Strangler” Sherwood….talk about Adam’s Family Values on display.
I couldn’t write a more fucked-up screenplay of Elmer Gantreyesque, Caligula like corruption of politics if I had taken an ounce of mushrooms and a sheet of acid.
-GSD
DairyMaid @
127
ROFL, so I guess I’m not as scared as they want me to be.
Looking back over the morning, I’m glad I initially posted my question at Christy’s “Department of You Can’t Make This [SHIT] Up” thread.
And selise, ISM is still up and running in the USA.
DairyMaid @ 129
thanks. :(
i knew that going there was dangerous… what i didn’t realize was that coming home might be too.
Mad Dogs @ 107
It’s worse than that. It’s more than possible that the system works by providing elected officials with luxury goods (recreational drugs and sexual partners)in a relatively safe environment (the Watergate Hotel) and with the cover of a puritan religious ideology.
The leadership has to make sure that the risks to each member of their caucus is higher than the risk to the entire caucus. So they keep their members addicted and supplied and golfing. Then the cash keeps flowing into the party and the contracts flow to the corporations underwriting the limos, sex workers, drugs, golf junkets, etc.
But it’s a giant management problem. And Foley was a bigger problem because he wasn’t doing it under their supervision.
jinny @
131
At this point, it would be hard to verify that anyone signing in as Maf54 is actually Foley. Lot’s of pranksters out there who have heard of this case. So take it with a ton of salt.
Can we afford to have a House Speaker and Secretary of State with such poor memories?
GSD, – I, too, was thinking last night that this whole event is like a textbook case of how these kinds of events happen and how these cases should NOT be handled. They’ve broken every rule in the book about proper process.
selise:
that sums our situation up better than almost anything i have read.
;( indeed.
Oh well, at least I’ll be in the company of truly good people.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 92
I think that’s up to the pages. I think Foley picked on pages, because he knew they had a lot of incentive to keep it a secret, he was their supervisor. I’m sure he’s not the only one, but I’d hazard to guess that he was the most prolific by a long shot. It brings to mind the old adages: “don’t get your meat where you get your potatoes”; “don’t dip your pen in the company inkwell.”
Ed*ard Teller @ 134
a “canary in the coal mine” to keep an eye on…
Sorry about 137. The first iteration disappeared, so I reposted it. Then it reappeared.
Bad manners unintentional and related to strange problems with the refresh button.
Would Hastert not make the perfect posterboy for the word, “toadie”?
Stephen Parrish, CPA @
72
I think it was mentioned the other day – on kos? here at FDL? – that the freepers had searched out and posted the page’s name address so they could do just that.
If the FBI is interested in finding the culprit in this, they need look no further than Free Republic (or maybe it’s one of the other ultra rightwing websites).
Now that the cat is out of the bag re YK08 Chicago – could we please campaign to have two invitees:
KEITH OLBERMANN
JOHN DEAN
The earlier we start on this the better as well-known people’s calendars tend to fill up aeons ahead.
Mary@52..nice summary..The Driftglass conclusion is that it was ignored because they didn’t want a distraction from the Iraq war build-up. If the folks who lied about being briefed, ie Ashcroft thought the info was bullshit, then why did Ashcroft suddenly stop flying commercial air?
But I agree with prof, our best weapon at this time is Foley-gate.
Philip Zelikow, Neocon Extraordinaire. But hey, he may be the only honest one in the bunch:
“Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us?” Philip Zelikow explains, “I’ll tell you what the real threat [is] and actually has been since 1990 — it’s the threat against Israel. And this is the threat that dares not speak its name because…the American government doesn’t want to lean too hard on it rhetorically because it’s not a popular sell.”
I think that the Republicans know they are going to lose the House so the question of whether Hastert should remain as Speaker will soon become moot. And the more he becomes damaged goods the less they are likely to mourn the possibility that he might lose his seat to a Democrat. In politics, the best problems are those that solve themselves.
angie @
141
angie & selise,
Here’s a poem I set based on words by Rachel Corrie about these “truly good people”
Feel sick to my stomach a lot
from being doted on all the time,
very sweetly,
by people who are facing doom.
You can always hear the tanks and bulldozers
passing by.
I have had bad nightmares about tanks and bulldozers
outside our house
and you and me inside.
Tanks and bulldozers destroyed 25 greenhouses
the livelihoods for 300 people.
Then the bulldozers come and take out
people’s vegetable farms and gardens.
This happens every day.
I think that I should at least mention that
I am also discovering a degree of strength
and of basic ability for humans to remain human
in the direst circumstances.
I think the word is dignity.
I wish you could meet these people.
Maybe, hopefully, someday
you will.
OT, but Jeebus! From McClatchy:
That would be the meeting where they took precautions against the threat of planes being crashed into the meeting site. Y’know, that thing that “no one ever imagined.” That was the one part of the briefing that Rice focused on “in particular.”
What a lying sack of crap. And as National Security Advisor, getting a briefing on a threat to the nation, and only focusing on the threat to Bushie — these bastards never give a damn about anyone but themselves.
The more these bastards deny the problem the more the MSM will feed on it. This is just getting good folks. Hopefully they will keep it up until November 8th.
Reminds me of the verse in the Bible about seeing the speck in someones eye when you have a whole log sticking out of your own. The Republicans just cant see anything besides the speck in other peoples eyes.
The National Weather Bureau reports a Buster Brown Clowd hovering over DC with loafers, clogs, Docksiders and stilletos about to deluge the region.
-GSD
everhopeful @
146
Karl Rove said the page was “fair game”.
-GSD
meta @ 140
Rules are for little people, to paraphrase Leona Helmsley.
The drunken and debauched Republican government is totally out of control…
Chee-knee shoots old guy in face.
Congresscritters check into rehab.
Tell you what.
Rehab for all Republicans. Votes for Democrats!
Redshift -
Genoa – Where they kept the Chimp safely on a boat ! for just those reasons, you mean that Genoa ?!?!
please kids, watch this film when you can: it’s all there
Press For Truth
http://www.mediachannel.org/PressForTruth2.htm
am starting to feel like the resident babbler on this
Ed*ard Teller @ 150
thank you ET. may we all strive for the strength..
ET @ 150– thanks for sharing that.
*sob*
flatus @ 139
Junya says he can’t remember. Asked Darth too, but doesn’t ring any bells with him either.
Um, I don’t think Hastert can resign. He’s in the middle of a political shitstorm at the moment, but keep in mind that he could also be in legal jeopardy here, both criminal and civil. The FBI is investigating, and civil suits could be on the horizon. A resignation would be an admission of guilt. He just can’t do it.
Redshift @ 152
you guys really need to read the new york times article;
it is BRUTAL
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice answering questions at an MTV show on September 25.
Philip Shenon on Rice’s Mideast Trip (mp3)
The account by Sean McCormack came hours after Ms. Rice, the secretary of state, told reporters aboard her airplane that she did not recall the specific meeting on July 10, 2001, noting that she had met repeatedly with Mr. Tenet that summer about terrorist threats. Ms. Rice, the national security adviser at the time, said it was “incomprehensible” she ignored dire terrorist threats two months before the Sept. 11 attacks.
Mr. McCormack also said records show that the Sept. 11 commission was informed about the meeting, a fact that former intelligence officials and members of the commission confirmed on Monday.
When details of the meeting emerged last week in a new book by Bob Woodward of The Washington Post, Bush administration officials questioned Mr. Woodward’s reporting.
Now, after several days, both current and former Bush administration officials have confirmed parts of Mr. Woodward’s account.
Officials now agree that on July 10, 2001, Mr. Tenet and his counterterrorism deputy, J. Cofer Black, were so alarmed about an impending Al Qaeda attack that they demanded an emergency meeting at the White House with Ms. Rice and her National Security Council staff.
According to two former intelligence officials, Mr. Tenet told those assembled at the White House about the growing body of intelligence the Central Intelligence Agency had collected pointing to an impending Al Qaeda attack. But both current and former officials took issue with Mr. Woodward’s account that Mr. Tenet and his aides left the meeting in frustration, feeling as if Ms. Rice had ignored them.
Mr. Tenet told members of the Sept. 11 commission about the July 10 meeting when they interviewed him in early 2004, but committee members said the former C.I.A. director never indicated he had left the White House with the impression that he had been ignored.
“Tenet never told us that he was brushed off,” said Richard Ben-Veniste, a Democratic member of the commission. “We certainly would have followed that up.”
Mr. McCormack said the records showed that, far from ignoring Mr. Tenet’s warnings, Ms. Rice acted on the intelligence and requested that Mr. Tenet make the same presentation to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and Atttorney General John Ashcroft.
But Mr. Ashcroft said by telephone on Monday evening that he never received a briefing that summer from Mr. Tenet.
“Frankly, I’m disappointed that I didn’t get that kind of briefing,” he said. “I’m surprised he didn’t think it was important enough to come by and tell me.”
The dispute that has played out in recent days gives further evidence of an escalating battle between the White House and Mr. Tenet over who should take the blame for such mistakes as the failure to stop the Sept. 11 attacks and assertions by Bush administration officials that Saddam Hussein was stockpiling chemical and biological weapons and cultivating ties to Al Qaeda.
Mr. Tenet resigned as director of central intelligence in the summer of 2004 and was honored that December with a Presidential Medal of Freedom during a White House ceremony. Since leaving the C.I.A., Mr. Tenet has stayed out of the public eye, largely declining to defend his record at the C.I.A. even after several government investigations have assailed the faulty intelligence that helped build the case for the Iraq war.
Mr. Tenet is now completing work on a memoir that is scheduled to be published early next year.
It is unclear how muchMr. Tenet will use the book to settle old scores, although recent books have portrayed Mr. Tenet both as dubious about the need for the Iraq war and angry that the White House has made the C.I.A. the primary scapegoat for the war.
In his book “The One Percent Doctrine,” the journalist and author Ron Suskind quotes Mr. Tenet’s former deputy at the C.I.A., John McLaughlin, saying that Mr. Tenet “wishes he could give that damn medal back.”
In his own book, Mr. Woodward wrote that over time Mr. Tenet developed a particular dislike for Ms. Rice, and that the former C.I.A. director was furious when she publicly blamed the agency for allowing President Bush to make the false claim in the 2003 State of the Union Address that Saddam Hussein was pursuing nuclear materials in Niger.
“If the C.I.A., the Director of National Intelligence, had said ‘take this out of the speech,’ it would have been gone, without question,” Ms. Rice told reporters in July 2003.
In fact, the C.I.A. had told the White House months before that the Niger intelligence was bogus and had managed to keep the claim out of an October 2002 speech that President Bush gave in Cincinnati.
More recently, Mr. Tenet has told friends that he was particularly angry when, appearing recently on Sunday talk shows, both Ms. Rice and Vice President Dick Cheney cited Mr. Tenet by name as the reason that Bush administration officials asserted that Mr. Hussein had stockpiles of banned weapons in Iraq and ties to Al Qaeda.
Mr. Cheney recalled during an appearance on “Meet the Press” on Sept. 10 of this year: “George Tenet sat in the Oval Office and the president of the United States asked him directly, he said, ‘George, how good is the case against Saddam on weapons of mass destruction?’ the director of the C.I.A. said, ‘It’s a slam dunk, Mr. President, it’s a slam dunk.’ ”
Cozumel @ 84
Hey, the all encompassing is MasterGate. :)
Holy. Cow.
Raw Story says naming of names to commence soon on ABC. Who knew what and when:
“ABC will soon report who had knowledge of the Mark Foley page scandal, and when they became aware of it, RAW STORY has learned.
In an interview with DemocracyNow, ABC’s Maddy Sauer has shared some startling facts about the story.
Pages have, according to Sauer, been able to produce instant message conversations going back as far as five years. Some of them are reportedly sexually explicit.
The FBI, Sauer claims, will be interviewing pages starting today.
Sauer also indicated that ABC’s next wave of reports on the Foley scandal will focus on who in Congress was aware of the situation, how much they knew, and when they were alerted.”
angie @
160
hoping to have my iWeb site up by the end of October so I can share sound files of that and other songs easily with my friends here. Off to vote, work, volunteer for Diane Benson and go to three rehearsals. See y’all later!
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..al-chairs/
new thread doggies: Musical Chairs
Jabberwocky:
. . . . . . . . .
Jabba Walkie (the line):
(some artistic license taken w/ Rove)
Ive been busy earning my paycheck at work today–I heard this morning on NPR that a Mr. Negron is taking Foley’s place. Is this true? Who is he?
kemo @ 149
Replace Iraq with Iran and you have the NEXT big thing.
i think the first round of punishment for anyone found to have participated in covering up this mess should be to spend 10 minutes locked in a room with the parents of all the kids who got dirty im’s from foley. oh, and let’s throw matt drudge in there too so he can tell these folks to their faces that their “little beasts” actually seduced foley into it. having to resign your leadership position might not seem so bad after that encounter.
There’s only one word for my reaction to all this (and it would be at least two in English!) – schadenfreude.
ccmask, Negron is the guy they’ve named to get any votes that people may cast for Foley in the election. ’sall I’ve heard.
Mary #52,
Thanks too for the summary. The July meeting and Condi’s bad memory bring back into the spotlight the problems with the 911 Commission itself. It was in appearance bipartisan but was often riven by partisan divisions and many agendas. It was weak. IIRC it never had subpoena power and was constantly undermined by a hostile Administration which stalled, obfuscated, and limited access to people and information. After the recent miserable involvement of the Republican Chair Tom Kean in Disney’s hit piece Path to 911, the objectivity and thoroughness of the Commission’s report is coming increasingly into question.
kemo @
149
Sad to say, I agree. For a long time, Israel has been the tail wagging the American-Middle-East-policy dog. And that includes the Clinton years.
Collectively, the neocons are by and large supporters of Israeli hegemony in the Middle East. With the 9/11 attack, neocon ideology, and Big Oil, Bush had a trifecta — just what he needed to start a war. All he needed was an excuse (a pack of lies, really), which turned out to be the non-existent WMD.
The history of where we are in the Middle East today can be summarized on one page: 9/11, Israel, Big Oil…and the non-existent WMD.
orangejumpsuit @ 175
Let’s see, Zelikow is honest about deceiving the American people,… so that makes him the perfect executive director for the 9/11 commission…
ccmask@169..A party hack I believe, but the best part is he wants 600k from Foley for his campaign.
CNN/s Andrea Koppel now reporting that Boehner pointed the finger of blame directly at Hastert to a local Cincinnati talk radio station. Excerpt then played.
First split in the Republican leadership, notes Koppel.
Ahhhh, the beauty of sharks chumming on themselves.
kemo, 176:
Clarification: I agree with Zelikow’s assessment of the unspoken (”the threat that dare not speak its name”) Israeli influence on attacking Iraq. This was the dream come true for the neocons. It was not a comment on whether he deserved to be on the 9/11 commission. Should have made myself clearer.
orangejumpsuit @ 175
Sure, but there is really no comparison here to previous admins… we are talking about a different level of commitment, in every way, including blatant cover-up in the most important investigation in our our nation’s history.
Woops, should have refreshed… sorry OJS!
The bottom line is that Zellikow is Condi’s man. When he was appointed to be executive director of the 9/11 Commission there was dissent, but then accepted. It would have been very easy for him to overlook or lose (however they choose to frame it) and pieces of the report that did not fit their own agenda and save their skins.
Like a lot of liars, the whole Bush administration and their cronies insult other people’s intelligence.
Melanie Sloan, CREW, now on C-SPAN.
Hastert won’t resign over Foley scandal
Washington Times ask House Speaker to ‘do the only right thing’
snip
Updated: 26 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – Speaker Dennis Hastert brushed aside any suggestion of resignation on Tuesday as House Republican leaders struggled to contain the fallout from an election-year scandal involving sexually explicit messages from a disgraced lawmaker to underage male pages.
snip
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15113942/
kemo @ 180
The historical forces driving Israel did not begin on January 2001 when Bush took office. He is the one “who reaped the whirlwind” because of the ascension of neocon influence under Cheney. But the seeds of Middle East chaos were planted and nurtured a long time ago. The Six Day war in the 60’s set the tone for the next forty years. It did not happen overnight.
My placing some of the onus on all previous administrations going back to Truman in no way condones anything Bush has done. Don’t see how that could be read into my comments.
Bustednuckles @ 183
Great, keep flaming the fire Denny.
CNN just in: Bush says from fundraising trip to Stockton Calif that he’s “shocked and dismayed…”
Wonder if he took out time for a little air guitar first. Heck of a job, Foley…
orangejumpsuit @ 185
Sorry, I know you don’t condone anything here, and did not mean to imply that… I agree with your wag the dog analogy, I simply want to point out that this admin has tossed 40 years of American diplomacy out of the window (according to former ambassadors) in their ME approach. No admin would have sacrificed the lives, money, US prestige these people have. You and I are on the same page here. You know my original link to your post was a lazy one; I was merely continuing my thought on the director Zelikow irony, not taking issue with your synopsis… my bad.
kemo, 188:
Agreed on all points: Peace, salaam, shalom.
Good God – Fox will never stop their sleaziness. Apparently they just put up a pic of Foley with D-Fl under his name.
Jeez, they are really too much….
lina @ 8
You, my friend, have nailed it. There are many, many dead, wounded, and maimed people because of the arrogant elitist attitude of these vermin. I am sure today they don’t understand that they killed people.
Jeff
Accountability – one word which should be used over and over and over during the campaign. It’s not just the Party in charge – which must change – it’s the system which must be forever updated – like an anti-virus software program.