Good morning Firedogs! The scent of burning congressman is in the air…

There was not time for the Republicans to pursue a real investigation. They were too busy gathering plunder.

Fitz!

Morning, Twisted — how’s life in your part of the country this morning? It’s birdie central here today on my feeders, and the coffee is nice and caffeinated. *g*

christy – seriously, is it really a “resurgent Taliban” or is it a developing pashtun insurgency?…

Life is good Redd. Be better when we get these criminals out. Were you ever able to get the pix I posted? The big file, not the singles.

selise at 5 — it’s both. Seriously. They’ve found a way to work together in a couple of regions — and how frightening is that as something to contemplate? We are doing such a suck-ass job there. SIGH

re: Afghanistan. Possibly Bill Frist wants the Taliban back, because he relates to them? Just a theory.
Ned Lamont’s blog has a post on Lieberman threating to join the GOP if he is stripped of his seniority. Creepier and creepier and all paid for by the likes of Mel Sembler.
Mel Sembler, Foley, Bill Frist . . . hyuck!

The Frist thing? I thought I had dreamt that?

We abandoned a war in Afganistan(where Bib LAden was lviving) to go invade Iraq (which hated Bin LAden as much as us) and now we are going to invite Bin Laden’s allies the Taliban into the Afgan gov’t?

Hell, why doesn’t Bushie just inviteOsam to the WH for a freakin’ state dinner?

Makes about as much sense.

In the same vein Shrbya wants to invade Iran (which is by all/most account YEARS away from having the capability of nuclear weapons) for daring to continue it’s research into making nuclear weapons,

but completely ignores North Korea who keeps testing nuclear weapons and compenents of MIRV warhead delivery systems.

Yeah, North Korea is about to nuke us, so lets go invade Iran. The wheels are comepltely off the wagon of our foreign policy.

Rice is a disgrace

“one of the great wonders of the natural world: the annual migration of monarch butterflies between Mexico and the United States and Canada.” Today’s Science NYTimes, “Fly Away Home” Maybe more apt for Christy’s Sunday morning post. I wrote some months ago about Plovers on Fire Island and yesterday again I witnessed another moment of profound nature. Tens of thousands if not millions of monarch butterflies in a steady stream down the beach heading south. For most of the day we were in an awake dream with this amazing phenomenon unfolding. In one moment as a sign of our times I had a worry that all these butterflies were an omen far more significant than Foleys emails. Belief that the Republicans would allow power to shift hands over the next months and years seemed fanciful. The churning in my gut, here I was on an absolutely perfect 911 sky day (yes, we do always think that), gorgeous Fire Island beach warm enough still to swim, migrating herds of butterflies and anxiety about what the Republican fascist Illuminati will have in store for us. This was unbearable, after all these were butterflies not frogs, or locust, (yes, I was raised a Christian) butterflies are a good omen, can’t I believe in good anymore. I was able to vacate my mind of politics and go back to the bliss of the moment yesterday although in some ways I am excited about the future I can’t help but wonder are these fucks really going to release their power peacefully. I found more thoughts on this at C&L this morning “The October Surprise?”

I don’t think I understand – did the 9/11 commission hear about the July 10 meeting or not? if they did, why was it left out of the report? did everyone just forget?

I am all in favor of bashing Frist as often as possible. It is also hard to always be taking the attacks of ignorant, venal, and self-serving hypocrites, who attack anyone for questionning Bush policy. In fact however, negotiating with the Taliban and taking seriously some (obviously not all) of al Qaeda’s demands is a prerequisite for stability and peace in the region and more broadly. I am not sure puerile equating of Taliban with al Qaeda is helpful. Sure bash Frist mercilessly for his hypocrisy (he deserves it all and then some), but think about it…we are not “winning” in either Iraq or Afghanistan, some of the grievances on the other side are not just perceived but real. We do have to deal with opponents or defeat them; and defeating them ain’t gonna happen by staying the course. (It of course COULD have been different in Afghanistan; that could have been a model; but the idiot-king had other plans. Now that option is long gone).

Well, if one can’t make up what’s happening, apparently one can make up the response…lies, more lies, cover-up, distraction. Just say stuff, and somewhere there is a person who will believe.

I said last night that every time Bill Frist opens his mouth, stupidity falls out. This man graduated from med school and was a transplant surgeon? I pity the patients who may await his retirement from the Senate.

No one with the kind of memory problems Condi has should be at any level of government higher than maybe working at Animal Control…the shoes aren’t as pretty, but you might get them to let you wear kick-ass boots.

Am wondering now whether the 9/11 commission reached the point where the evidence and testimony they collected was so damning of the Bush administration that they pulled back their conclusions in order to prevent it from falling in the middle of a war. Thanks, guys – way to serve the people.

Christy, I hope someday when the peanut is older there will once again be people in charge that you can point to with pride, who will truly be public servants instead of slaves to power.

It really does feel surreal with how twisted everything has become in the last few years. I can’t believe that Rep. Reynolds used children as a shield against reporters at a press conference.

When a reporter suggested to Reynolds that the children step outside in order to have a frank discussion of the sexually charged case, Reynolds declined.

http://www.democratandchronicl…../1002/NEWS

How far has the Republician party sunk that they exploit children in a scandal about predatory behaviour towards children?

I’m getting to the point where I can’t keep up with it all…

Here’s some old info on this punk-ass Hastert

Dennis Hastert
Representative, Illinois; Speaker of the House
Age 62
Born Aurora, Illinois, January 2, 1942

Military service None

Reason Rejected from advanced ROTC at Wheaton College for bad shoulder stemming from sports injury. A college wrestler and coach, Hastert is in the National Wrestling Hall of Fame.

Quote [Responding to ex-P.O.W. Senator John McCain’s “Where’s the sacrifice?” criticism of Bush’s plan for wartime tax cuts.] “If you want to see the sacrifice, John McCain ought to visit our young men and women at Walter Reed and Bethesda [hospitals]. There’s the sacrifice in this country.”

We do live in odd times. It’s almost as if when Republicans were complaining about Democratic corruption in 1994, what they were really saying was, “Is that all? Give us a chance. We can outscandal and outscum you by a Texas mile!”

So, does anyone else find it curious that the Foley scandal was revealed by ABC, the same network that aired “The Path to 9/11″? Foley’s been fawning over teenage boys for years, but it surfaces JUST as Bob Woodward’s book, which would have been the first expose on the criminal Bush admin. to reach the masses, is out and Woodward is making the rounds?

Indeed, Foley has knocked Woodward’s revelations of Rice’s bald-faced lies and Bush’s criminal negligence leading up to 9/11 and his delusional and megalomaniacal handling of Iraq on the back burner.

Repubs would surely sacrifice Foley to protect BushCo., no?

I smell a rat (named Rove).

Clinton and Putin should insist/help set-up a meeting between Baker and Iran’s president, asap, yesterday even better.

Certainly do not take rice pudding along for the glory.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 6

selise at 5 — it’s both. Seriously. They’ve found a way to work together in a couple of regions — and how frightening is that as something to contemplate? We are doing such a suck-ass job there. SIGH

well, if significant numbers of the pastun people think the taliban is the best of all bad options, then things are very bad indeed. it’s hard for me to figure out what is going on in afghanistan now-a-days…. so much propoganda… i will have to check in with a friend of mine who has visited several times and has a better knowledge of the actual situation.

i am very ashamed of what my country has done to the people of afghanistan.

What a wacky wacky world. Ya know, I’ve always felt in one way or another that America was sort of blessed. I kind of have a view of America as I do Gaia in that eventually things will correct themselves naturally. I think we’re at that point now. America is in the process of correcting itself.

Rove didn’t see this coming. He knows this is almost un-spinnable. The only hope he has is to get W to demand resignations which will make him look good, but will gut the House. Things just have a way of coming around. Call it Karma, call it luck, call it whatever…I’m not complaining.

Another point I think is important. We all worry about vote tampering and rigging. As I described to someone this morning…vote tampering is good at tipping a race that has a few percentage points of variance. That can be covered statisticly. However, if all the polls are showing high numbers between canidates it’s MUCH tougher to just tweak a few votes here and there. The more tweaks the more noticable. It’ll be much harder to steal elections if there are larger gaps in numbers.

I’ll be curious to see the polls after this week, but I think we’re going to start seeing many Dems put significant leads up at the polls. If that trend continues it may help prevent as much vote theft and allow us to win as we should.

Sam Seder playing “Had Enough” on Air America!

della Rovere @ 12

I am all in favor of bashing Frist as often as possible. It is also hard to always be taking the attacks of ignorant, venal, and self-serving hypocrites, who attack anyone for questionning Bush policy. In fact however, negotiating with the Taliban and taking seriously some (obviously not all) of al Qaeda’s demands is a prerequisite for stability and peace in the region and more broadly. I am not sure puerile equating of Taliban with al Qaeda is helpful. Sure bash Frist mercilessly for his hypocrisy (he deserves it all and then some), but think about it…we are not “winning” in either Iraq or Afghanistan, some of the grievances on the other side are not just perceived but real. We do have to deal with opponents or defeat them; and defeating them ain’t gonna happen by staying the course. (It of course COULD have been different in Afghanistan; that could have been a model; but the idiot-king had other plans. Now that option is long gone).

I don’t know much about Afghanistan, but I am not sure that it is even good Realpolitik to negotiate with the Taliban. Not only are they barbaric toward minorites, Buddha statues, libraries etc., but I somehow doubt any cooperation.

Anne at 21 — Sam has been so fantastic with the Had Enough? campaign. :)

della Rovere @ 11

I am all in favor of bashing Frist as often as possible. It is also hard to always be taking the attacks of ignorant, venal, and self-serving hypocrites, who attack anyone for questionning Bush policy. In fact however, negotiating with the Taliban and taking seriously some (obviously not all) of al Qaeda’s demands is a prerequisite for stability and peace in the region and more broadly. I am not sure puerile equating of Taliban with al Qaeda is helpful. Sure bash Frist mercilessly for his hypocrisy (he deserves it all and then some), but think about it…we are not “winning” in either Iraq or Afghanistan, some of the grievances on the other side are not just perceived but real. We do have to deal with opponents or defeat them; and defeating them ain’t gonna happen by staying the course. (It of course COULD have been different in Afghanistan; that could have been a model; but the idiot-king had other plans. Now that option is long gone).

word.

Good Morning Christy and Everyone,
News from one of the Blue America candidates here in CA-11. A new internal poll (from Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund) has McNerney up by 2 points over Pombo. Today, though, Bush is here in Stockton California for a fundraiser for Pombo. He stayed overnight at a hotel 2 blocks from my house. Yuck.

Re: the Foley revelation. The hint from Brian Ross that there are many other pages contacting him with other inappropriate contacts from other congress members . . . does that make anyone else feel like there is an effort to paint this scandal as a bipartisan one?

Wag the Dog?

This scares me. Anyone paying attention to 20,000 naval troops moving into the Perisan Gulf?
Here’s how the diary starts and it gets much much worse.

I was checking the news about deployment of the U.S.S. Eisenhower strike group today for the Arabian Gulf and read something that has scared the crap out of me. I am literally shaking.

Those 6,500 sailors are deploying to war. The only people who don’t know this are Americans. Below I reproduce with consent the entirety of an article I first read at AlArabOnline but which originated two days ago at Global Research.

It is a comprehensive, footnoted documentation of US and allied forces capabilities deploying to the Gulf and the strategy of the Bush administration to strike Iran and Syria in pursuit of dominating the oil rich regions of the Middle East.

It will take about four weeks for the new strike group, which includes for the first time Coast Guard vessels, to reach the Gulf. From then war could commence any time. The inclusion of Coast Guard vessels convinced me – they will intercept attacking gunboats and rescue sailors from sinking ships.

Read the heavily footnoted details for yourselves. The Iranians have no doubt read it by now and are preparing their response.

Will the Generals and Admirals really let this happen?

Please tell me that this is not happening.

Danbury @
17

We do live in odd times. It’s almost as if when Republicans were complaining about Democratic corruption in 1994, what they were really saying was, “Is that all? Give us a chance. We can outscandal and outscum you by a Texas mile!”

So, does anyone else find it curious that the Foley scandal was revealed by ABC, the same network that aired “The Path to 9/11″? Foley’s been fawning over teenage boys for years, but it surfaces JUST as Bob Woodward’s book, which would have been the first expose on the criminal Bush admin. to reach the masses, is out and Woodward is making the rounds?

Indeed, Foley has knocked Woodward’s revelations of Rice’s bald-faced lies and Bush’s criminal negligence leading up to 9/11 and his delusional and megalomaniacal handling of Iraq on the back burner.

Repubs would surely sacrifice Foley to protect BushCo., no?

I smell a rat (named Rove).

I don’t know but it sure seems like Foley decided run away once ABC mentioned IMs. I doubt Foley did any internal polling of the people who would then wish to moider him.

della at 12 — the Taliban got a lot of its financial support from al qaeda, you think they aren’t going to go right back into bed with them if they get the chance? Especially since we’ve really done a minimal job of rooting them out of the region? Let alone their abysmal treatment of women and girls and… Any equation of the Taliban with something worthy of negotiation is just wrong. Period.

Ahh yes,good old Insider Trading Frist. I really wish we had a media that would point out the crap these people are doing while they claim to be moral,ethical and smarter than us”mythical little guys”. Yes Bill,the Taliban would be just a lovely addition to the Afghan government. Just STFU already,for the love of god.

Incomprehensible?

I do not think that word means what Condi thinks it means.

OldCoastie @ 11

I don’t think I understand – did the 9/11 commission hear about the July 10 meeting or not? if they did, why was it left out of the report? did everyone just forget?

HI O’Coastie. Lessee. 1.) According to Richard Ben-Veniste, it was mentioned, but the contents of the report were voted on and this meeting got voted out (like Survivor, I guess), and 2.) Philip Zelikow did the final draft and, well, he’s buddies with Condi and maybe he didn’t want to embarass her.

RevDeb @ 25

Wag the Dog?

This scares me. Anyone paying attention to 20,000 naval troops moving into the Perisan Gulf?
Here’s how the diary starts and it gets much much worse.

Will the Generals and Admirals really let this happen?

Please tell me that this is not happening.

I have no doubt that this is Rove’s October suprise. But if they really do it, it will back fire in a HUGE way. America is sick of war and the thought of war. These guys pull the trigger on this hoping to gin up support for Republicans they will be eaten alive. People aren’t going to buy it again. It will backfire BIG time.

RevDeb, that dKos diary also had a number of comments along the line of this reflecting only a little more than normal rotations. Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but after time in the military and lots of Navy friends, I share the feeling that it’s *not* the prelude to an Iran War.

Here’s a question for ya, pups:

Back in the late 90s through 2001 I donated to a charity in Vienna which concentrated, among other things, on smuggling Afghan women artists – mostly musicians – out of the country and from the Taliban. Later I found out the charity also contributes to a Palestinian charity which runs a clinic in Rafah dealing primarily with PSTD issues among Palestinian children. That clinic has employees who are members of Hamas. I also – as late as a year ago – participated in a fundraiser in London for that same Rafah clinic and for an Israeli organization which pays legal bills for Israeli conscientious objectors.

Am I a possible enemy combatant? This is a serious question, BTW…

selise @
5

christy – seriously, is it really a “resurgent Taliban” or is it a developing pashtun insurgency?…

I saw Musharref on the Daily Show last night. He claims that he is attempting to court the rank-and-file Pashtun away from the Taliban to prevent it from turning into a Pashtun insurgency.

FishGuyDave @ 32

RevDeb, that dKos diary also had a number of comments along the line of this reflecting only a little more than normal rotations. Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but after time in the military and lots of Navy friends, I share the feeling that it’s *not* the prelude to an Iran War.

Thanks for that. This is way out of my pay grade of understanding. It would seem to me that if we get the Wag the Dog meme out over and over again before it could happen it would backfire.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 27

della at 12 — the Taliban got a lot of its financial support from al qaeda, you think they aren’t going to go right back into bed with them if they get the chance? Especially since we’ve really done a minimal job of rooting them out of the region? Let alone their abysmal treatment of women and girls and… Any equation of the Taliban with something worthy of negotiation is just wrong. Period.

Word. And it was the repuglikans themselves that played up the burkha, so that they can now play down the burkha?

morning RevDeb,

thanks for the reminder to keep our eye on the ball – the possibility of a wider ME war is not something we can risk ignoring.

i also read all of london yank’s dairy this morning… almost emailed it to professor foland, but then it hit the recommended list… so it will be widely read.

am also hoping someone can tell me that my fears are groundless….

Strange times. The US comes back from the brink, sanity is restored, Republicans are thrown out of power, congressional oversight is resumed with a vengeance and the thug president is impeached.

All because of the stupid creepy actions of a rich old white gay peodophile.

I think Musharraf has had to walk a fine line. He felt he had to acknowledge and agree to civilian autonomy for the Pashtun tribe. They have never allowed foreigners into their midst. Taliban are ethnic Pashtun, so there is a natural affinity in some ways, and they will align with them if it means pushing out all foreign invasion. Musharraf is betting on the hope that the Pashtun of Pakistan will unite to secure Pakistan.

From Woodward’s book.

While leading the hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in the summer of 2003, David Kay received a phone call from “Scooter” Libby, Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, who wanted a particular place searched: “The vice president wants to know if you’ve looked at this area. We have indications — and here are the geocoordinates — that something’s buried there.” Kay and his experts located the area on the map. It was in the middle of Lebanon.

HotFlash @ 30

OldCoastie @ 11

HI O’Coastie. Lessee. 1.) According to Richard Ben-Veniste, it was mentioned, but the contents of the report were voted on and this meeting got voted out (like Survivor, I guess), [snip]

How do you ignore something that happened? Have we finally, really gotten to the point where fact itself can be voted upon? You know, I think my basil plants need rain today, so I’m going to just vote against sunshine. Sheesh.

Old Coastie,
You’re not the only one asking that question

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..010133.php

ppp, thank you SO much for sharing that. We observed a segment of that annual gathering last week. The natural world–what a breath of fresh air.

selise @ 37

morning RevDeb,

thanks for the reminder to keep our eye on the ball – the possibility of a wider ME war is not something we can risk ignoring.

i also read all of london yank’s dairy this morning… almost emailed it to professor foland, but then it hit the recommended list… so it will be widely read.

am also hoping someone can tell me that my fears are groundless….

Please do e-mail it to Prof. Foland. I’d like to have his take on it.

I’d love to stay in the thread, but have to prepare for my class on Job . . . you know, the guy that loses everything because God and Satan have a bet on? Hitting way to close for comfort these days.

Ed*ard Teller @
208

I predicted Sept 25 for the October surprise. It came and went. Then I predicted the 3rd week of October. But this is intriguing in a more than vaguely tinfoil hat sort of way, but – had to get it on the record:

Sunday, October 01, 2006 – FreeMarketNews.com

INITIAL POST 09.30.06

A faithful reader and commentator, “A. Magnus” writes the following email, posted to FMNN General Feedback:

“Do you like October suprises? Is there a big bang coming to hit the markets? If you believe that those in the know use insider information before major events then you might be interested on the HUGE number of October 6th put options for the big indexes. Check out the concentrated puts on the Diamonds DOW Trust (DIA):

http://www.freemarketnews.com/…..?nid=22476

I keep bringing this fwd from the Sunday LateNight in hopes that someone can interpret the omen — I am clueless, stock market-wise. Would this activity be caused by foreknowledge of an Oct 6 attack on Iraq?

Reports of 11 American deaths in Iraq and two US troops in Afghanistan killed.

Tet Offensive is the Iraqi October Surprise.

-GSD

Ed*ard Teller @ 33

Here’s a question for ya, pups:

Back in the late 90s through 2001 I donated to a charity in Vienna which concentrated, among other things, on smuggling Afghan women artists – mostly musicians – out of the country and from the Taliban. Later I found out the charity also contributes to a Palestinian charity which runs a clinic in Rafah dealing primarily with PSTD issues among Palestinian children. That clinic has employees who are members of Hamas. I also – as late as a year ago – participated in a fundraiser in London for that same Rafah clinic and for an Israeli organization which pays legal bills for Israeli conscientious objectors.

Am I a possible enemy combatant? This is a serious question, BTW…

It’s certainly possible, given the BushCo climate. Charitable giving to foreign organizations that work in high-conflict areas is really going to take a hit because of questions like yours. I’m not aware of any kind of “check out that charity” websites that cover foreign organizations, but google your groups and see what comes up. If you run across anything (positive [database of “clean” groups]) or negative (list of questionable charities), please pass it along.

Ot but perhaps a bit of levity is in order

http://www.teambio.org/2006/09…..-your-suv/

I am wondering if the Rethuglikans think it is a great idea to “punish” Iran, by bringing back the Taliban, which Iran almost went to war with. More bombed Buddhas. More Shiite refugees flooding Iran. More Persian books burned. Great option!

Christy Hardin Smith @ 26

della at 12 — the Taliban got a lot of its financial support from al qaeda, you think they aren’t going to go right back into bed with them if they get the chance? Especially since we’ve really done a minimal job of rooting them out of the region? Let alone their abysmal treatment of women and girls and… Any equation of the Taliban with something worthy of negotiation is just wrong. Period.

a willingness or even a desire to negotiate is not a judgement on the worthiness of the taliban – it is a judgement on our responsibility to the afghan people. who we have royally screwed.

it is the choice of the least evil option…. it is possible that a refusal to negotiate may make things EVEN WORSE.

p.s. i thought the taliban got support from the ISI – not al qaeda. do i have that wrong? would love a reading list… thx!

How did the 9-11 commission manage to leave out the 7-10-01 meeting? And why isn’t Ben-Veniste saying, “It was a GRIEVOUS error that we left that meeting out of the report?” Also, we know Tenet testified about the meeting to them; did Condi testify about the 7-10 meeting? And if she didn’t, why aren’t all the journalists tailing her, asking her why she withheld information?

Ed*ard Teller @
33

Here’s a question for ya, pups:

Back in the late 90s through 2001 I donated to a charity in Vienna which concentrated, among other things, on smuggling Afghan women artists – mostly musicians – out of the country and from the Taliban. Later I found out the charity also contributes to a Palestinian charity which runs a clinic in Rafah dealing primarily with PSTD issues among Palestinian children. That clinic has employees who are members of Hamas. I also – as late as a year ago – participated in a fundraiser in London for that same Rafah clinic and for an Israeli organization which pays legal bills for Israeli conscientious objectors.

Am I a possible enemy combatant? This is a serious question, BTW…

Are you afraid of water?

-GSD

I don’t know but it sure seems like Foley decided run away once ABC mentioned IMs. I doubt Foley did any internal polling of the people who would then wish to moider him.

I don’t think Foley had anything to do with it. I think he’s Rove’s/the GOP’s sacrifice on the altar of George W. Bush.

selise at 50 — I’ve always been of the opinion that a negotiation requires at least some level of good faith on both sides of the equation. And I’m not certain we could have that with the Taliban, who have never shown any ability to stick to any agreed upon point that I know of in their history after the Soviets pulled out of the country. I’ll pull up some of what i’ve been reading when I get a chance (although it may not be until this weekend, given that the in-laws are still here and I’m juggling family and blog a lot more at the moment…)

You guys are so right on. I read stuff here that it takes days for the MSM to pick up on.

Thank you for your hard work and pithy insight

The Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight, today’s Rep leadership. I think the Johnny Walker Blue Label has destroyed most of their braincells. The Addams Family have better family values than these twerps! Of couuse, with some of the winger preachers out there family values has lost its meaning.

All the principal players are now splitting hairs over what happened in Condi’s office on July 10th, 2001. They all have very different versions, which makes believing any of them a challenge. But since the language Woodward chose to use from Black about the meeting being akin to holding a gun to Condi’s head, I’m inclined to think that she’s holding the dirtbag. Ben Veniste claims it was presented in a different way by Tenet, and if the only other guy in the room is Zelikow, then it makes sense that it got dusted. Condi claims she can’t remember. The obfuscation is just all part of the Rovian script. I think we may get to the bottom of it, hopefully sometime soon.

AJ @ 40

From Woodward’s book.

While leading the hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in the summer of 2003, David Kay received a phone call from “Scooter” Libby, Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, who wanted a particular place searched: “The vice president wants to know if you’ve looked at this area. We have indications — and here are the geocoordinates — that something’s buried there.” Kay and his experts located the area on the map. It was in the middle of Lebanon.

Perhaps, he got those coordinates from a guy on a waterboard.

Meta/57: Did Condi mention that meeting to the 9-11 commission or just Tenet? And how does Condi answer for not disclosing the meeting?

GSD @
52

Ed*ard Teller @
33

Here’s a question for ya, pups:

Back in the late 90s through 2001 I donated to a charity in Vienna which concentrated, among other things, on smuggling Afghan women artists – mostly musicians – out of the country and from the Taliban. Later I found out the charity also contributes to a Palestinian charity which runs a clinic in Rafah dealing primarily with PSTD issues among Palestinian children. That clinic has employees who are members of Hamas. I also – as late as a year ago – participated in a fundraiser in London for that same Rafah clinic and for an Israeli organization which pays legal bills for Israeli conscientious objectors.

Am I a possible enemy combatant? This is a serious question, BTW…

Are you afraid of water?

-GSD

Good question, GSD. I’ve been scuba diving since 1963 and fished the breakers outside Kokinhenik Bar on the Copper River in an open skiff for four years.

I doubt I have any valuable information that I wouldn’t have to make up on the spur of the moment.

mui #36 — I’ve been biting my tongue nearly through since I read della Rovere’s comment #12. (What exactly is “della Rovere” anyhow – “of the Rovere”? have not seen this poster before…?)

I cannot accept the premise that the Taliban is a viable political entity worthy of negotiations. PERIOD.

The right-wing Christian Fundies of this country created this monster, promoting this faction in the 1980’s, asking their beloved St. Ronnie to give the Taliban (so-called Afghani freedom fighters) help in fending off the Soviets — when this government should have been less worried about the Soviets and looking more closely at the underlying problem between the Taliban and Soviets. That problem is still with us, and it’s now beating down our doors.

Further, the Taliban are misogynists of the worst sort; women and girls are mere chattel, not permitted to seek any medical help save from female doctors, and educated women are persecuted. Shooting women for wearing anything western or failing to wear the appropriate burkha is worse than misogyny; it’s tantamount to gender-based genocide.

One of — if not THE single best predictor of a country’s economic success and political stability is the degree of education women receive. The Taliban aggressively prevented women and girls from becoming educated, and are still actively interfering in their education; we can only give a poor prognosis for Afghanistan if this continues and escalates.

Bill Frist needs to be asked why he is such a misogynist that he would lend any support to men who not only nurture terror but oppress women. Maybe he thinks this is acceptable and preferable to cat-killing.

(Ed*ard T — enormous props to you for helping Afghan women.)

Bush is out here in CA campaigning for Pombo and Doolittle, at a time when his CA approval ratings are at an all-time low. Of course, what little support Bush has out here is probably concentrated somewhat in these districts. Ahnold, with his double-digit lead for governor, is staying as far away from Dubya as possible.

With Congress out of session, it seems to be the season for all those DC-based reporters to head back to the home offices to touch base with the bosses. Sunday’s SF Chronicle had a long piece by their DC bureau chief entitled Red West Shifting to Blue, making the case that Dems in the West stand a good shot at breaking the Republican hold on the Mountain states. He raises more of the purity vs. victory stuff than I think holds water and also some stereotypes of coastal liberals, but overall a pretty good piece.

Jane S. @ 59

Meta/57: Did Condi mention that meeting to the 9-11 commission or just Tenet? And how does Condi answer for not disclosing the meeting?

I think Condi is saying she doesn’t remember. Which, when you think about it, is only taking a backhoe to that ditch she’s digging herself in.

So, the GOP House leadership knew about Foley, probably as far back as 2001. I suspect the actual thinking was probably ‘good, I like to have something I can hang over his head when i need his votes.’ That’s one hell of a skeleton in the closet to know about.

We know this generation of GOP congressanimals has no actual scruples; it’s absolutely not beyond them to be that cynical about pedophilic tendencies in one or more of their members (no pun intended).

Wigwam, I thought you were going to say they knew the coordinates because they planted the WMD. But your answer may be even worse.

Borough elections today in our local Matanuska-Susitna Borough, which is about the size of New England if you subtract half of Maine. I’m going to hold signs for my favorite Borough Assembly candidate for a couple hours during the morning drive traffic, then go vote.

Our first Diane Benson for US Congress radio commercials – one of which I produced – should hit the local airwaves today.

When Viera interviewed John Ashcroft, did she forget to ask him why he stopped flying commercial airlines the summer of 2001?

Not quite so strange but definitely twisted is the emerging GOP line re: Foley that Dems get away with sex scandals whereas Repugs don’t. Its like working the refs at a game, as if there is a certain amount of sexual inpropriety each team is allowed and the refs are not calling it fairly. Disgusting, not to mention that it overlooks the particulars of the various sex scandals of the last 25 years. You can hear in the echoes of this, in the fading sound of “naughty emails,” is that because Clinton was not brought down by Lewinsky that Repugs are due one “pass” on a scandal.

Only a political machine whose raison d’etre is political hegemony would float such a pathetic argument, let alone feel it is valid.

“No fair, liberal pervs don’t pay political prices! Let our pervs alone!”

As someone at Kos said, I am happy to use all the dirt that Woodward dug up but he is a little late to the party. And did anyone hear that crappy baseball metaphor about Bush to explain away the first two books? I think it is pretty clear that Bush has been losing the game for a long time.

meta @ 63

I think Condi is saying she doesn’t remember. Which, when you think about it, is only taking a backhoe to that ditch she’s digging herself in.

Who would’ve thought she’d forget she had been told about people flying airplanes into buildings immediately after having been told people might fly airplanes into buildings?

“Way to multi-task there, Bushie.”

BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Great post.

ironranger #66 — nope. Viera did not ask.

You might want to pop Meredith a note and ask her why she rolled over so easily.

Multi-tasking for Bush is chewing on a roll and rubbing Andrea Merkel’s shoulders at the same time.

Hey Mary — you out there? Left you something in the basement.

shooogarp at 70 — yeah, I couldn’t help myself on that one, this morning. Sometimes the snark has to come out… *G*

Taliban equals al qaeda

Frist is out of his mind but I wouldn’t go quite that far. Al qaeda are international terrorists, the Taliban isn’t, IMO

Has it been mentioned that Richard ben-Veniste now admits the the 9/11 commission was briefed by Tenet on the July 10 meeting? Rumsfeld and Ashcroft also got the briefing.

Sad to say but we must buck up to the reality that there is nothing we can do to remedy the gigantic clusterfuck of chaos that the Bush policy and actions in Afghanistan or Iraq has wrought..

Except Leave. Immediately.

Good heavens, George Allen has had to resort to campaigning with former Redskin players that played for his dad and buying a 2-minute ad on Virginia teevee begging people to look at issues and not character. I swear, this is the most bizarre political election season that I can remember in a long, long time.

They didn’t investigate for a simple reason: they know what they’re gonna find — a paid-off, molested ex-page and his family. Thousands for their silence. This is gonna be bad news when this gets out.

How can I be so sure? C’mon, there’s a pattern here and I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Right now, the Reps are playing the Stalling Game — a game they play well — and are hoping to keep the inevitable truth from coming out before November’s elections. If they can pull it off, they can possibly keep some (most?) of their “Values Voters” and possibly keep the Dauphin from getting his comeuppance from a newly minted opposition party in the House (and, fingers crossed, the Senate.)

Wait for it. Call will be for Denny to accept blame, step down — today, tomorrow, the sooner the better and then we can all move on to forgetting about this. Boehner and Co. are screwed too as the second-tier Rep are licking their chops at the appointments and positions of power that are theirs when the disgraced are finally swept away.

The Republican Civil War has just had its Fort Sumpter moment…

We will not be mocked!

Mornin’ All,

head is spinnin’ don’t know where to start, but -

Spotlighted Jane’s post about Drudge’s comments to Howie Kurtz – also sent transcripts to

National Center for Missing and Exploited Children

Polly Klaas Foundation

These 2 orgs enjoy tremendous credibility with TradMed and politely urged both to publicly condemn Drudge and others for their reprehensible commentary – if anyone has a better suggestion on how to get this out there, I’m a listenin’ . . .

been doing lots of drive by’s in Right Blogistan – castigating these craven bastards for their spin (The Doughy One this morning goes all Concern Troll – casually mentioning victims were of the age of consent . . .)

I know this is only a hideous sidenote to the story, but my outrage meter is now schrapnel scattered about the deck of the FDL Wheelhouse

OfT from the prior thread, this imo is the cutting edge of the Foley cover-up.

John Casper says:
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:42 am

From a Buffalo blog, Buffalo Geek, Congressman Reynolds (R:NY): “I took it to my Supervisor”

In order to provide a backdrop of family values to the proceedings and to keep the questions away from the content of Foley’s emails and IM’s to Congressional pages, Reynolds brought every notable local Republican to the podium along with each of their children. It was surreal.

Joe Schmidbauer of WHLD took issue with Reynolds’ political theatrics and asked him to remove the children from the room so that the media might discuss an “adult issue”. Here’s the exchange: (Please, see the three short YouTubes in the link provided above.)

It appears that the national party is setting up Speaker of the House, Rep. Dennis Hastert (R-IL) as the fall guy in this scenario. Well, at least Tom Reynolds is…

Bold is mine.

“I took it to my supervisor,” sounds like language crafted by an employment attorney wrt sexual harrassment. For example, Hastert failed to guarantee a safe workplace environment, by allowing someone he supervised, Foley, to prey on boys that Foley supervised.

Reynolds appears to be implicitly alleging negligence by Hastert wrt his supervisory responsibilities as Speaker. I think what is pissing people off is that it sounds like Reynolds is more concerned about his legal jeapordy than the kids. In cases like this, voters want RESULTS. If you can’t protect pages from a fucking child molestor you’re obviously not fuckingqualified to serve in Congress.

OT, The Moonie Washington Times called for Hastert to resign. It sounds as though the far right and all of us lambs of the left have finally found something we can agree on.
Sorry, Christy, I missed that you already included this in your post.

man, I knew I’d get epu’d, but I didn’t think my post would be SO on point to the next entry here at firedog

anyway;

the more I read about that briefing between tenet, rice, and other officials telling us about the attack sure to come, the more disgusted I get

this is oberman stuff

man, I hope he does an entire piece on this

this is dereliction of duty, it’s criminal negligence, this is probably the single most irresponsible act ever committed by a member of our government

and then the walls came down

that should be the title of a piece on this treason

“and then the walls came down”

whoever uses it, you have my permission

Ed*ard Teller @ 69

meta @ 63

I think Condi is saying she doesn’t remember. Which, when you think about it, is only taking a backhoe to that ditch she’s digging herself in.

Who would’ve thought she’d forget she had been told about people flying airplanes into buildings immediately after having been told
people might fly airplanes into buildings?

You know, she can’t have it both ways. And when you think about it, either way and she’s toast. Either she forgot, which looks like dereliction. Or she heard but did not not take substantive action, which looks like dereliciton.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 53

selise at 50 — I’ve always been of the opinion that a negotiation requires at least some level of good faith on both sides of the equation. And I’m not certain we could have that with the Taliban, who have never shown any ability to stick to any agreed upon point that I know of in their history after the Soviets pulled out of the country. I’ll pull up some of what i’ve been reading when I get a chance (although it may not be until this weekend, given that the in-laws are still here and I’m juggling family and blog a lot more at the moment…)

christy -

please don’t waste any of your time on my behalf… you are busy enough, and i appreciate all you are doing already.

wrt negotiations… i make no assumption of good faith (and let’s not forget that the afghan people have no reason to think that we would negotiate in good faith either).

but what do we loose by talking? aren’t we falling into the mental trap advocated by the neocons – never negotiate with enemies (who are by definition evil)? it is a great way to escalate the level of violence… and we’ve done enough of that.

i’m not suggesting that we trust the taliban or that we stop hating what they’ve done . i’m advocating talking.

and pointing out that frist is a hypocritical asshole….

Leave it to the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld administration to leave, in Afghanistan, something that is arguably worse than what was there originally.

Unfortuately, it will be the same in Iraq, whenever we re-deploy.

Rayne @ 61

Agreed. Also we need to ask why all of a sudden the Repuglikans want to negotiate with the Taliban. Google search Juan Cole’s site, and you’ll see BushCo doesn’t like Iran gaining influence in Iraq or Afghanistan. Historically there have been bad relations between Iran and the Taliban/Al Quaeda: murdered diplomats, etc. etc.
Just because BushCo has no idea how to stablize the mideast, or get the Shiite/Sunni balance right, doesn’t mean the Repuglikans should be allowed to dally with the Taliban. In regards to the people of Afghanistan: I doubt every Pashtun is a fundamentalist. Should BushCo’s fuckups mean women are back to weaving carpets and stonings? In regards to the Shiites: BushCo will turn the Shiites of Iraq and Afghanistan against us. In regards to the American solders who were told they were fighting Taliban/Al Quaeda: it’s a grave insult.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 80

Good heavens, George Allen has had to resort to campaigning with former Redskin players that played for his dad and buying a 2-minute ad on Virginia teevee begging people to look at issues and not character. I swear, this is the most bizarre political election season that I can remember in a long, long time.

I loved it when, in response to the Jewish question he was asked, he responded by saying that a person’s religion should not be an issue.

Hello? He must not have gotten the memo from the GOP that demands Repub candidates shriek about how Godless Dems are, how there is a war on Christians/Christmas, how the GOP has made fundie Christianity the center piece of their political platform.

Repubs completely lack self-awareness.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 78

Good heavens, George Allen has had to resort to campaigning with former Redskin players that played for his dad and buying a 2-minute ad on Virginia teevee begging people to look at issues and not character. I swear, this is the most bizarre political election season that I can remember in a long, long time.

It’s strange down here, too. I’ve noticed that Republicans campaign ads here have more or less stopped mentioning that the candidate is, in fact, Republican. They’re all “independent voices” now. It’s as if they are running for Bizarro World Congress, where an entrenched Democratic machine is running everything in Washington, and only these plucky, independent rebels can save us from the All-Powerful Democratic Ruling Party.

The GOP candidate for governor here–neofascist Charlie Crist–was running sweetness and light “let’s all come together, Republicans, Democrats, and Independents, and together build a better Florida!” ads until Monday. He has suddenly, abruptly gone savagely negative against the Democrat, Congressman Jim Davis from Tampa. Crist is–get this–now calling Davis a Washington insider. Crist is abruptly running against Washington, and from his ads one would be hard-pressed to discern that Crist is in fact a member of the party that for years has actually run Washington. There is a weird strain of anti-incumbent populism in Crists’ new ads, which is particularly odd since he is a member of Jeb Bush’s cabinet. The timing of his pivot to a negative, anti-Washington message is sort of interesting. During the primary, he was running stern, “I’m more Republican than my opponent” kinds of ads. After the primary, he switched to soft, fuzzy ads which masked his party affiliation. Now he’s running harsh, anti-Washington ads which also mask his affiliation.
In a lot of ads, the only way you can tell who the Republicans are is that they don’t mention their party at all. Suddenly, nobody seems proud to be a Republican.

mui @ 87

Rayne @ 61 we need to ask why all of a sudden the Repuglikans want to negotiate with the Taliban. Google search Juan Cole’s site, and you’ll see BushCo doesn’t like Iran gaining influence in Iraq or Afghanistan. Historically there have been bad relations between Iran and the Taliban/Al Quaeda: murdered diplomats, etc. etc.

i think this is right on. what a bunch of fucking assholes they are – enough with the playing politics with people’s lives.

Cozumel @
77

Taliban equals al qaeda

Frist is out of his mind but I wouldn’t go quite that far. Al qaeda are international terrorists, the Taliban isn’t, IMO

I would agree. Last week Olbermann played that pre-9/11 clip of a reporter asking Ari Fleischer at a WH Press Bluffing about the Taliban’s offer to turn over Osama bin Laden.

Denny Hastert’s Chins @ 80

We will not be mocked!

Oh, I think you will. Better start looking at the want ads, Baron Harkonnen. You’re about to get canned.

The smell of desperation is thick in the air.

Look at the Mashing Codpiece’s latest character assassination of the Democrats:

“If you listen closely to some of the leaders of the Democratic Party, it sounds like — it sounds like — they think the best way to protect the American people is, wait until we’re attacked again,” Bush said Monday at a $360,000 fundraiser in Reno, Nev., for state Secretary of State Dean Heller’s congressional campaign.

-GSD

Kinda like what you did the summer of 2001 George?

Guten Fitzen!

Christy!

I have much FDL to catch up on!

fyi – and o/t

LMAO -

John Ashcroft was scheduled to have a book release this week

http://www.amazon.com/Never-Ag…..mp;s=books

and now it looks like Foleygate & Woodward may may have mucked that all up

guess he can always go back to selling ‘Let The Eagle Soar’ ringtones

oh and – a little chuckle

from the AP story on Frist -

” As Frist’s helicopter landed, children just outside the base threw stones.”

Sharkbabe at 94 — I have been missing you in the morning threads — good to see you!

Back to the July 10 meeting. There has to be more going on with this than just CYA. Why did Ashcroft come out of the wood-work yesterday and say why wasn’t I briefed when he apparently had been. Why cover-up the July 10 meeting when the commission report admits that Bush got the same data in Crawford? I hate to see Ben-Veniste say that he lied but I guess he signed a confidentiality oath. Condi is now under the bus.WTF is going on?

And does anyone have any idea what in the hell went on with the Amish schoolhouse shootings? I’m still trying to get some sort of bead on this shooting — what in the hell?!? Appalling…and so painful for these people, so very painful.

Steve @ 96

Back to the July 10 meeting. There has to be more going on with this than just CYA. Why did Ashcroft come out of the wood-work yesterday and say why wasn’t I briefed when he apparently had been. Why cover-up the July 10 meeting when the commission report admits that Bush got the same data in Crawford? I hate to see Ben-Veniste say hat he lied but I guess he signed a confidentiality oath. Condi is now under the bus.WTF is going on?

yep…. just does not add up. lots of questions…. not a lot of answers.

Morning everyone! getting a late start at the lake today…

Christy. Thankyou for another great post AND for your pithy, informative followup answers in amongst the comments. These are just awful awful times, but you make it palatable to read and discuss even the worst, and still work for change. Thank you for giving us hope AND ammunition AND ADRENALINE! ;->

Re: the continuing repub. trainwreck.
Incomprehensible indeed, but not in whatever sense or nonsense Condi intended.
Every repug’s main aim right now seems to be to ensure it’s some OTHER repug who gets thrown under the wheels. I never thot I’d feel any sense of relief that Dems had been kept out of the loop of knowledge & responsibility for governance. For this brief moment, right before elections, it suddenly seems rather convenient, at least for the sake of clear concise campaigning.

===============
???HAD ENOUGH???
==========================================
!VOTE DEMOCRAT STRAIGHT DOWN THE WHOLE BALLOT!
==========================================
!INCLUDING DEMOCRATIC PARTY – ENDORSED JUDGES!
========================================

Christy,

It is the second mass shooting in a week where young girls have been separated from the rest and targeted…this time they were shot execution style…the other monster sexually assaulted the girls before offing himself.

Bad times we are in.

Nary a Muslim to be found in either atrocity mind you.

-GSD

Lewis Carroll, huh? Speaking of possible pedophiles? Every afternoon with young Alice…

Christy Hardin Smith @ 99

And does anyone have any idea what in the hell went on with the Amish schoolhouse shootings? I’m still trying to get some sort of bead on this shooting — what in the hell?!? Appalling…and so painful for these people, so very painful.

The milkman did it, but I don’t think he was “Amish.” Told his wife he wasn’t coming home. Said it was revenge for something that happened twenty-years ago, whatever that means. It was a gender specific murder. Victims were very young.

I think we NEED to find out who the ‘other officials” were at the briefing

powel?

rumsfeld?

WHO ELSE STOOD DOWN?

ABC News: Pages ‘Sending All Sorts of Messages About Possible Other Members’

Tonight on ABC, investigative journalist Brian Ross suggested there may be other members of Congress who engaged in inappropriate behavior towards congressional pages:

BRIAN ROSS: So far, Foley is the only member whose overt sexual approaches have been documented. Charlie?
http://thinkprogress.org/…

CHARLES GIBSON: The only one to be documented, but are there other shoes to drop?

ROSS: We’re hearing quite a bit from former pages. They’re sending us all sorts of messages about possible other members.

“about possible other members”
It’s legs are growing and growing!

John at 105 — yep, that I knew. Have been trying to find any information on motive, but the culling of the women and girls out is very, very odd. And GSD at 103 — I hear you on that, and my prosecutor training is trying to come up with a “why?” on both. Sometimes I wonder if the national media attention that we give to tragic circumstances like this doesn’t push copycat or related mental/violent/rage-filled actions forward like this in other communities. It’s just such a mess…

WHO ELSE STOOD DOWN?

Rumsfeld and Ashcroft

http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..04418/8102

From the Rochester NY Democrat and Chronicle: Rep. Reynolds squirms in light of Foley scandal

October 3, 2006) — WASHINGTON — Republican Rep. Tom Reynolds’ re-election campaign is being affected by the scandal involving former Rep. Mark Foley of Florida, who sent sexually explicit electronic messages to teenagers who had served as congressional pages.

Congressional Quarterly, a nonpartisan newsletter that rates political campaigns, reclassified Reynolds’ race from “safe Republican” to “leans Republican” on Monday as Democrats accused the congressman from Clarence, Erie County, of not doing enough after he learned about some of the less explicit e-mails last spring.

The change means that Reynolds — powerful chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee — has gone from “a shoo-in” for re-election to a “likely” winner who could still be vulnerable to an upset victory by Democratic businessman Jack Davis, the newsletter said.

Bold is mine.

Jane S. @ 52

How did the 9-11 commission manage to leave out the 7-10-01 meeting? And why isn’t Ben-Veniste saying, “It was a GRIEVOUS error that we left that meeting out of the report?” Also, we know Tenet testified about the meeting to them; did Condi testify about the 7-10 meeting? And if she didn’t, why aren’t all the journalists tailing her, asking her why she withheld information?

In the accounts I’ve read so far ben-Veniste says that Tenet testified about the meeting, but didn’t make clear the urgency or lack of response Woodward talks about. If that’s true, then obviously it would have been better if they had asked Condi about it, but I could see how its significance could have been missed.

The problem with a new Brian Ross report is that a Democrat will be named, no doubt, just to make it all nice and bipartisan for Tim Russert.

WHO ELSE STOOD DOWN?

Word is, as Billmon says, that the clumsy remarks about Afghanistan may signal a rationale for pulling troops out of there to invade Iran. As if they would be enough! But I do think everybody here should stop dancing around the fire over Foleygate long enough to think of how all this would evaporate in an instant if Bush drops the Big One on Iran.

It all ends then, you realize, and the blogs would be the first to go — the DOD has plans in place to selectively shut down any portion of the network and could do so under the kind of chaos such an attack would unleash. We’d all be isolated, incommunicado, and the coup would be complete. The greatest threat to this country at the moment is the even greater disaster than Iraq that only awaits the COC’s assent.

selise @
92

mui @ 87

Rayne @ 61 we need to ask why all of a sudden the Repuglikans want to negotiate with the Taliban. Google search Juan Cole’s site, and you’ll see BushCo doesn’t like Iran gaining influence in Iraq or Afghanistan. Historically there have been bad relations between Iran and the Taliban/Al Quaeda: murdered diplomats, etc. etc.

i think this is right on. what a bunch of fucking assholes they are – enough with the playing politics with people’s lives.

The good side to the Taliban story, if there can be one, is that if Bush thinks he can help contain Iran by propping up the Taliban, he may be less inclined to nuke the centrifuge sites (at least until after the election).

This is called being between a rock and a hard place. And it is all Bush’s creation because by attacking Iraq, he guaranteed the ascendancy of its sworn enemy, Iran.

And you can bet he knows it. Save ass time, and he is looking to the Taliban for help. The very folks who aided and abetted OBL. Bizarre. As Christy says, you can’t make this up.

If the Dems proposed this, the RW and MSM would be all over it. Screaming.

And for comic relief, now catlover Frist is our Secretary of State (while Condi practices her Brahms?).

mui — you know, the answers are right there in front of them, no politicking required.

At the risk of sounding like a man-bashing shrew, they cannot see the answers because they are men.

Afghanistan needs to be stabilized, but any security force needs more weighting from Muslim moderate countries; I would love to see the UN work on developing a Peacekeeping force for this very purpose.

Part of any stabilizing effort must include the education of women, and the encouragement of women as small business owners in sync with that educational process. Grameen Bank should be encouraged to help with micro-loans in that area to aid in economic development of businesses other than poppy farming; women have proven they are most likely to benefit from such funding, and most likely to pay back the loans while improving their household’s standard of living (see Bengladesh as an example).

(Frankly, I don’t see why some of this same prescription cannot work in Palestine. The major underlying problem is the lack of Palestinian economic development and the subsequent hyper-dependency of Palestine on Israel for jobs or financial aid from Saudi Arabia and other countries. It is the women and children who suffer most for this, breeding generations of discontent.)

As long as men afflicted with the kind of devastating blindness manifest in Bill Frist and Denny Hastert have control of Congress, we will not be able to help the women of Afghanistan and other parts of the world. These privileged, selfish, white Ameri-centric men are unable to see what does not look like them.

Hence the blind eye to powerless pages.

Balrog is off to the Humpty-Dome to cheer for the Twins.

If you’ve never been there, Humpty-Dome becomes Thunder Dome during the playoffs and is a very cool thing.

Please hold my calls.

morning all

Speaking of Macaca Allen, he is on cspan2 right now courting the latino vote and speaking about health care…

blergh.

Redshift @
111

Jane S. @ 52

How did the 9-11 commission manage to leave out the 7-10-01 meeting? And why isn’t Ben-Veniste saying, “It was a GRIEVOUS error that we left that meeting out of the report?” Also, we know Tenet testified about the meeting to them; did Condi testify about the 7-10 meeting? And if she didn’t, why aren’t all the journalists tailing her, asking her why she withheld information?

In the accounts I’ve read so far ben-Veniste says that Tenet testified about the meeting, but didn’t make clear the urgency or lack of response Woodward talks about. If that’s true, then obviously it would have been better if they had asked Condi about it, but I could see how its significance could have been missed.

From a McClatchy Newspaper account (bottom of the page)

Ben-Veniste confirmed to McClatchy Newspapers that Tenet outlined for the 9/11 commission the July 10 briefing to Rice in secret testimony in January 2004. He referred questions about why the commission omitted any mention of the briefing in its report to Zelikow, the report’s main author. Zelikow didn’t respond to e-mail and telephone queries from McClatchy Newspapers.

Link

Breaking CNN…

John Boehner threw Hastert under the bus in a radio interview in Ohio about an hour ago…

Pass the popcorn ; )

ABC reporting Hastert is getting thrown under the bus by Boehner, who is apparently reverting to his original story that he told Hastert about everything and Hastert informed him that it was being “taken care of” (h/t Atrios):

http://blogs.abcnews.com/polit…..ints_.html

OT: I saw UptownNYChick post yesterday about going to Grand Central Tues afternoon to let Lieberman hear what we think of his policies and new friends. Any further word about that? I’d like to join. Moderators: any idea out there how I’d coordinate? I’d sent a note to Lamont HQ about something quite similar last week. No reply as yet.

Theres North Korea since Dems. have been yammering about it.

“North Korea Says Nuclear Test Is Set” NYTimes.

JHF at 112, thanks for that cheery comment.

Sparcatus – Is Lieberman going to be at Grand Central today or next Tuesday? I hadn’t heard anything about this. Do you have more info? Thanks.

7/10 Meeting/Ben-Veniste/9-11 Ommission

Tenet’s Power Point Presentation to WH was shared w/ Commission on 1/28/04 – (Ben-Veniste was present at that hearing) and transcripts of Tenet’s testimony can be found in Nat Archives

nice walkback Richard

FWIW, Rove punked the Democrats by suckering them into pre-war intelligence briefings, which they couldn’t talk about. Once it came out the intelligence was bogus, Dems had to admit, they were “informed.”

My guess is this will not be the case with Foleygate. Unless some Dem was as stupid as Foley, to email and IM, it doesn’t sound to me as though anyone wrote anything down about anyone. I think that’s why Reynolds wanted to hit Hastert early with his: “I took it to my supervisor.” If there are documents, I am very confident that they don’t reflect just how serious the situation was, as is now evident from Foley’s graphic messages. IMO, the next “shoe to drop” on Hastert is “willfull negligence.” As Bernie Ebbers discovered, the dummy defense doesn’t always work. IMO, it especially doesn’t work when Foley’s predilection was as well known as it was. What’s missing is GOP documentation of what reasonable people recognize as a very serious situation that absolutely warranted attention that Hastert didn’t give.

Amish school – so heartbreaking, soul-sickening

The grand wurlitzer throws out a lot of sound. But the cabal that governs us believes in creating reality, and October has been designated Big Creation Event Month.

Prepare to have your world changed. They mean it. There are lots of chords floating around, but they are planning more war. More war.

Even conservative writer Debra Saunders, in her column, writes:

GOP leaders should have done more than simply take Foley at his word. . . . At Monday’s press conference, Hastert was defensive, when he should have been angry — at Foley, and at himself for not doing more. He looked like a man who didn’t want to know.

She also takes potshots at Dems who have demanded that Repubs give back Foley’s dirty money, but it’s notable that she does criticize the Republican Coverup Leadership (not her words, but our meme).

cbl@109 So we know that at least Rice,Rumsfeld and Ashcroft were briefed. So what, why the lying and cover-up? Bush got the same info. in the PDB at Crawford: if the boss knew and didn’t act why care about the underlings?

My WAG is that a lot more occurred with Rice,Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. I think the neo-cons decided to let the attack happen to advance the Iraq war. I think they told Bush that Tenet was full of shit and to disregard the PDB. Bush couldn’t be trusted and was kept in the dark.

I need a new roll of tin-foil.

Let’s never forget who the Taliban are!

This is what the Taliban did to woman who left their homes without a male relative, or who showed their ankels, or who tried to work

http://www.rawa.org/murder-w.htm

windje @
119

Redshift @
111

Jane S. @ 52

How did the 9-11 commission manage to leave out the 7-10-01 meeting? And why isn’t Ben-Veniste saying, “It was a GRIEVOUS error that we left that meeting out of the report?” Also, we know Tenet testified about the meeting to them; did Condi testify about the 7-10 meeting? And if she didn’t, why aren’t all the journalists tailing her, asking her why she withheld information?

In the accounts I’ve read so far ben-Veniste says that Tenet testified about the meeting, but didn’t make clear the urgency or lack of response Woodward talks about. If that’s true, then obviously it would have been better if they had asked Condi about it, but I could see how its significance could have been missed.

From a McClatchy Newspaper account (bottom of the page)

Ben-Veniste confirmed to McClatchy Newspapers that Tenet outlined for the 9/11 commission the July 10 briefing to Rice in secret testimony in January 2004. He referred questions about why the commission omitted any mention of the briefing in its report to Zelikow, the report’s main author. Zelikow didn’t respond to e-mail and telephone queries from McClatchy Newspapers.

Link

If it were not for the predatorgate, this would be all over the news; Condi, Ashcroft and Rumsfeld warned a month before the Presidential Daily Briefing.
Would be good to get Ben-Veniste in front of some cameras to give video to this story.
What did they ignore and why did they ignore it?

It is some mean Rove jui jitsu to take a losing hand like ignoring repeated warnings–richard Clark, Cofer Black, Tenet, PDB–and then turn it into the stuff of heroics.

Tenet said his July presentation was power point, that he would testify in public, if the commission would like. . .Um, POWER POINT? And they all forgot it? Maybe he still has the power point and would like to trot it out about now?

I also read that Woodward’s book was released a couple of days ahead of schedule. Woodward (?) said the Condi meeting was the big news in the book.

I happened to read the SF Chronicle on Sunday mainly because of the Red States Blue headliner. In there was also a print of an article from Tom Dispatch, I think it was, about the army being so desperate for recruits that gang members and white supremacists were being allowed in the mix. Nice huh? Sending guns home to the streets, not to mention the internal wars that are now going on inside the army ranks between gangs and between races.

BTW, United Airlines played “An Inconvenient Truth” in flight. I thought that was amazing.

Thanks Prof.
I think all media will stay on Foleygate, Hastert, Reynolds, and Boehner like stink on shit. It’s rare that both the left and right are so united about a story. Like Coz said, pass the popcorn.

Rayne @ 113

(Frankly, I don’t see why some of this same prescription cannot work in Palestine. The major underlying problem is the lack of Palestinian economic development and the subsequent hyper-dependency of Palestine on Israel for jobs or financial aid from Saudi Arabia and other countries. It is the women and children who suffer most for this, breeding generations of discontent.

sadly, i don’t think the underlying problem in palestine is the lack of economic development. i think that is a symptom of the occupation… and the systematic destruction of infrastucture. limited water, limited electricity, limited mobility (lucky if you can even get to the hospital)…. president carter gave a good speech addressing some of these issues last march at the CFR.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15098144/

“Republicans are bracing for ads that link previous scandals with the Foley case and ask, “Had enough?” Several strategists said this could be devastating in tight races. The most optimistic scenario offered by GOP strategists is that no new information surfaces and the controversy ends in the next five weeks.”

So Hastert’s going to apparently fall on his sword and let everyone blame him. I guess they figure the media would rather concentrate on him rather than the truth? (ha!)

(Wonder what kind of $$$$ guarantees he’ll be getting for doing that?)

No one could be outraged more than I am about Pagegate, but inadvertent humor never ceases to amaze me, and ridicule is one of the more potent weapons of propaganda warfare. With that said I point you all to this tidbit.

On Democracy Now! this morning one of Amy’s guest was ABC’s Maddy Sauer, who works for Brian Ross and learned about the emails.

At one point Sauer said the Republican leaders were now scrambling to get on the same page.

Pity the page.

pass the popcorn indeed -

Hastert is in the Cheney camp, Boehner belongs to Rove

Boehner to Hastert: “First rule about Fight Club is you don’t talk about Fight Club”

Rayne: now that you confirmed Viera didn’t ask annointed Ashcroft why he stopped flying commercial Aug 2001, email going out soon. I hope today show gets bombarded with emails on this question. I will be waiting breathlessly for the confirmation that leaving out that question was a condition for the “interview”.

I notice MACACA has his buds there with him. Why isn’t WEBB there? OH, I see, it’s just another REPUG BULLSHIT SESSION !

There was an ABC report about a Republican strategist offering ‘access’ in exchange for not disclosing Foley text messages.

Maybe it’s finally beginning to sink in that with this bunch of republican miscreants, access=accomplice.

Raven316 @16: There has been talk for many years in Illinois about Dennis Hastert’s unnatural interest in his high school students in wrestling class in their tight singlets that they wear. Hastert should resign. He knew about Foley for over a year and protected his illegal actions.

OK gang, I got a vote up for grabs…just got the following email from my brother in response to a question about Ned.

Not really a big Ned Lamont guy. Guy is nothing more than a prototypical limosine liberal. Dude has no clue about what life in the trenches is about and I can’t just vote for a rich-kid tool just because he’s anti-war. Wish I was in VA so I could vote for Webb . . .

So what can I give him to challenge his thought process? I have my own ideas, but all of us is smarter than some of us. This CT vote is up for grabs, let’s grab it.

Muzzy @ 143

There was an ABC report about a Republican strategist offering ‘access’ in exchange for not disclosing Foley text messages.

Maybe it’s finally beginning to sink in that with this bunch of republican miscreants, access=accomplice.

that GOOPER strategist was the ex-chief of staff to Foley and the current COS to Reynolds, who heads the NRCC–the committee to elect GOOPERS to Congress. It offered Brian Ross an exclusive on the resignation of Foley in exchange for suppressing the email.

Please help me keep track of which members of the Foley Five Pedophile Protectors knew about Foley’s activities before the rest of us did.

I know that Reynolds and Shumkiss (or whatever his name is) and Alexander and Hastert knew.

But is this new or old information from the Cincinnati Post and Dayton Daily News:

By Jessica Wehrman
Dayton Daily News

WASHINGTON – House Majority Leader John Boehner said Monday he knew about former Rep. Mark Foley’s “over friendly” e-mails to a 16-year-old former congressional page from Louisiana.

. . . Boehner said Rep. Rodney Alexander, R-La., told him Foley had e-mailed a former page from Louisiana. That e-mail was in 2005 after Hurricane Katrina and the boy was no longer a page.

“It alarmed me,” Boehner said.

Boehner said he knew nothing of the e-mail’s content, but was concerned enough to discuss it with his chief of staff. He said he is “99 percent” sure he talked to House Speaker Dennis Hastert about it, but does not recall their conversation.

There sure are a lot of Republicans who took care of things:

he recalls, he was left with the impression that fellow congressional leaders had settled the matter

Maybe someone will post a quick timeline of “who knew what, and when they knew it.” I have to be preparing to teach a class.

Tenet’s meeting with Condi was on July 10. The point of the meeting was to tell her that he thought an attack by al-Qaeda was imminent, although he thought the attack would be overseas.

The title of the Aug 6 PDB was “Bin Laden determined to strike in the US”. Aug 6 is less than a month after Tenet’s meeting.

So, let’s get this straight. Condi is warned that a big attack is imminent, and then warned that the attacker wants to attack the US. And she doesn’t put it together? She does zip, nadda, nothing.

Twisted -

pls remind your brother of Ned’s time as a volunteer in inner city schools – kinda breaks the limousine liberal meme

John Casper @ 127

FWIW, Rove punked the Democrats by suckering them into pre-war intelligence briefings, which they couldn’t talk about. Once it came out the intelligence was bogus, Dems had to admit, they were “informed.”

My guess is this will not be the case with Foleygate. Unless some Dem was as stupid as Foley, to email and IM, it doesn’t sound to me as though anyone wrote anything down about anyone. I think that’s why Reynolds wanted to hit Hastert early with his: “I took it to my supervisor.” If there are documents, I am very confident that they don’t reflect just how serious the situation was, as is now evident from Foley’s graphic messages. IMO, the next “shoe to drop” on Hastert is “willfull negligence.” As Bernie Ebbers discovered, the dummy defense doesn’t always work. IMO, it especially doesn’t work when Foley’s predilection was as well known as it was. What’s missing is GOP documentation of what reasonable people recognize as a very serious situation that absolutely warranted attention that Hastert didn’t give.

Spot on, with one exception: Stupidity is not a party-specific disease. The symptoms may be quite different, but the underlying disease is an equal opportunity affliction.

Famous last words of those engaged in child abuse or the covering up thereof:
“I’m different from the guy in the news – I’ll never get caught.” [Oops!]
“It’s not abuse – it was consentual.” [Minors can’t give meaningful consent, bubba.]
“Everyone does it.” [Everyone who abuses kids, that is.]
“The rules don’t apply to me.” [Um, wrong . . . as the judge will be pointing out to you shortly.]
“No one could have anticipated . . .” [Except, of course, anyone who has even a passing understanding of abusive behavior and child protection laws.]

It’s a long litany, and Christy can probably expand on it in excruciating detail. But look at that list – sound familiar, anyone?

Folks in the Republican Leadership who don’t understand that the notion of accountability applies to them are getting a first class lesson in it. It’s a little late, in so many ways, but better late than never.

rat bastahd @ 137

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15098144/

“Republicans are bracing for ads that link previous scandals with the Foley case and ask, “Had enough?” Several strategists said this could be devastating in tight races. The most optimistic scenario offered by GOP strategists is that no new information surfaces and the controversy ends in the next five weeks.”

It’s the same old trick of paired association dragging perception of something bad down to the level of upchuck.

USE IT !!!

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/02/pages-ross/
ABC THINKPROGRESS REPORTS OTHER MEMBERS INVOLVED

1,274 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Firepups:

Does anyone else see the tactic of abandoning Afganistan back to the Taliban as a way of cuting off our last legitimate exit strategy from Iraq? Let’s look…if most of the public and a bi-partisan majority of elected officials support a “war on terror” and see the war in Afganistan as a war against al-qaeda and that same majority opposes the assault on and occupation of Iraq, then leaving Afganistan would cut off our only politically viable exit rout for the existing troops in Iraq. Everyone knows that transfering 100,000 troops from Iraq to Afganistan would take care of the Taliban-al-qaeda-terrorism hot war and would be a force capable of holding the country long enough to facilitate some real change by the Afganies. To make peace with the Taliban and give the country back to al-qaeda would not only expose the fraud of the “war on terror” but would trap our existing forces in Iraq with no place to go.

KEEP THE FAITH AND KEEP WORKIN…WE’RE FUCKED IF WE DON’T WIN THIS ELECTION!!

Ed*ard Teller @ 33

Here’s a question for ya, pups:

Back in the late 90s through 2001 I donated to a charity in Vienna which concentrated, among other things, on smuggling Afghan women artists – mostly musicians – out of the country and from the Taliban. Later I found out the charity also contributes to a Palestinian charity which runs a clinic in Rafah dealing primarily with PSTD issues among Palestinian children. That clinic has employees who are members of Hamas. I also – as late as a year ago – participated in a fundraiser in London for that same Rafah clinic and for an Israeli organization which pays legal bills for Israeli conscientious objectors.

Am I a possible enemy combatant? This is a serious question, BTW…

Well, if PETA is on the list, and the Sierra Club, I would expect that anything that involves an actual Arab to be a shoo-in. Only probem would be available space. And with the set-up they have, they could do a Final Solution with no on the wiser. To ave space, you understand. Hmm, check in daily, OK?

Disclosure: I was married by a former Hitler Youth. She says yeah, bad things really do happen. And they don’t look *that* bad at the time.

Millineryman @ 14

It really does feel surreal with how twisted everything has become in the last few years. I can’t believe that Rep. Reynolds used children as a shield against reporters at a press conference.

When a reporter suggested to Reynolds that the children step outside in order to have a frank discussion of the sexually charged case, Reynolds declined.

http://www.democratandchronicl…../1002/NEWS

How far has the Republician party sunk that they exploit children in a scandal about predatory behaviour towards children?

That is one of the most amazing bits of news I have read so far.

chris @ 148

Tenet’s meeting with Condi was on July 10. The point of the meeting was to tell her that he thought an attack by al-Qaeda was imminent, although he thought the attack would be overseas.

The title of the Aug 6 PDB was “Bin Laden determined to strike in the US”. Aug 6 is less than a month after Tenet’s meeting.

So, let’s get this straight. Condi is warned that a big attack is imminent, and then warned that the attacker wants to attack the US. And she doesn’t put it together? She does zip, nadda, nothing.

I want to know WHO ELSE WAS AT THAT MEETING?

who else stood down

who else is in deriliction of duty

Twisted Martini @ 142

OK gang, I got a vote up for grabs…just got the following email from my brother in response to a question about Ned.

Not really a big Ned Lamont guy. Guy is nothing more than a prototypical limosine liberal. Dude has no clue about what life in the trenches is about and I can’t just vote for a rich-kid tool just because he’s anti-war. Wish I was in VA so I could vote for Webb . . .

So what can I give him to challenge his thought process? I have my own ideas, but all of us is smarter than some of us. This CT vote is up for grabs, let’s grab it.

some possibilites…?

- ned’s volunteer teaching
- ned’s commitment to not accept PAC money
- for a “dude” with “no clue about what life in the trenches”, he does a good job of advocating policies that would make “live in the trenches” a lot better… (universal health care, renegotiated trade agreements…).
- lieberman sucks
- it will send a good message to the DC dems to start representing us.

sure, it would be great to have politicians who aren’t all millionaires – but with the current funding of campaigns… our choices are frequently limited to someone who can partially self-fund or who will sell themselves out to the PACs.

i have great hope in ned – spent a number of days in CT this summer canvassing for him and plan to go back the end of this month…

Regarding Condi’s July 2001 Meeting.

WHAT CAN’T WE KNOW?

Why is the content of this meeting still secret? Why can’t we know exactly what the CIA told her and Rummy and Ashcroft? 9/11 happened already!

Did they “connect the dots” on the phoenix memo dated July 10, 2001 regarding OBL followers enrolling in US flight training schools? I think we all got that memo: 19 terrorist fly hijacked planes into WTC. I believe it was covered by most major networks.

Did they mention cells in the United States and not just overseas? I think we all got that one.

Did they mention it being a coordinated attack, yep, we got that one too.

Did they mention that this was a pack of mostly Saudi’s being funded by Saudi royalty, yep, we got that memo too.

WTF is still too top secret to tell us about this meeting? Perhaps, the only secret is that all of this was laid at the feet of Condi, and Rummy, and Ashcroft. Perhaps the only thing to keep secret is that they were given a window into what was coming and THEY DID NOTHING. That’s the only secret I can discern.

What tatical or intelligence information can be in the minutes of this meeting that we have not all already lived through?

RELEASE THIS INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC

So we can know who is running OUR government and how they are running it.

THAT’S DEMOCRACY.

cbl @ 149

Twisted -

pls remind your brother of Ned’s time as a volunteer in inner city schools – kinda breaks the limousine liberal meme

And that was no drive-by, photo op “volunteering,” but a regular commitment!

WaPo

Republicans are bracing for ads that link previous scandals with the Foley case and ask, “Had enough?” Several strategists said this could be devastating in tight races. The most optimistic scenario offered by GOP strategists is that no new information surfaces and the controversy ends in the next five weeks.

Sam Seder says Atrios is reporting via ABC that Boehner is throwing Hastert under the bus…

Prof @ 147

Maybe someone will post a quick timeline of “who knew what, and when they knew it.” I have to be preparing to teach a class.

TPM has one.

FWIW from wikipedia,

Pedophilia or paedophilia is the paraphilia of being sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent or peripubescent children. Persons with this attraction are called pedophiles.

In contrast to the generally accepted medical definition, the term pedophile is also used colloquially to denote significantly older adults who are sexually attracted to adolescents below the local age of consent[1], as well as those who have sexually abused a child.

think progress is INCREDBILE!

Intel Officials: Rice’s July 2001 Briefing Described Urgent Threat, ‘10 On a Scale of 1 to 10′
Condoleezza Rice describes her briefing with CIA officials George Tenet and Cofer Black on July 10, 2001 as relatively unremarkable. Here’s how her spokesman Sean McCormack described it yesterday:

ON A SCALE OF 1 TO 10, IT WAS A 10

ppp and Old Sow

OT but so important for soul & sanity.

Thanks for the comments on migration.

This year, we finally got serious about plans to add lots of milkweeds & other nectaring & larval-host plants to our already pretty-darned-wildlife-friendly yard.

We thought we had a bunch of butterflies before(!)

This year was astounding. Many new species, and yes, the precious Monarchs feeding and laying eggs & growing fat caterpillars in abundance. An added bonus on the Common Milkweed plants – a critter who even surprised our university biology department friends till Google saved the day. Try googling Milkweed Tiger Moth(!) We had those gorgeous babies all over our plants for most of the summer, even though we never did spot the rather drab, night-flying adults.

These days, even though the hummingbirds, catbirds and warblers are gone till next spring, we’re still seeing migrating White-throated Sparrows, and our local gang of residents is moving in closer to the house after a fruitful year of nesting in the hedgerows and woods.

Many of them seem to enjoy gorging themselves on Red-Osier Dogwood berries, just as soon as they ripen. The big floppy bushes make for pretty comical viewing, with all the birds hanging upside down, flopping around awkwardly, & doing whatever they have to do to pluck those delicious fruit.

Just plain good for the spirit……

NOW. ENOUGH. Back to the steaming pit of politics, sigh…..

….. but thanks for the respite…..

Anne @ 161

Sam Seder says Atrios is reporting via ABC that Boehner is throwing Hastert under the bus…

TPM describes it as “Boehner is re-blaming Hastert…” *g*

Rayne @ 116

mui — you know, the answers are right there in front of them, no politicking required.

At the risk of sounding like a man-bashing shrew, they cannot see the answers because they are men.

Agreed. And I’ll one up you and say that neocons have this brutal limited mindset that prevents them from using complex creative solutions for complex problems. Instead their thought processes seem to swing like pendulums: First get Taliban. Then Iraq. Establish weak central governments. Oops didn’t see consequences, now use Taliban as a counterbalance to Shiite/Iranian influence, and so on. Tick, Tock, tick tock.
That is a male mindset and a neocon mindset.
It somehow doesn’t occur to them to help establish an empowered class of working and middle class people, establishing protections of life and property, better healthcare etc. establishing protections against warlords etc. etc. etc. (Personally I like the idea of an all female militia.) The world is too complicated for the neocons and they hate experts like Juan Cole.

Adie @ 165

ppp and Old Sow

OT but so important for soul & sanity.

Thanks for the comments on migration.

This year, we finally got serious about plans to add lots of milkweeds & other nectaring & larval-host plants to our already pretty-darned-wildlife-friendly yard.

We thought we had a bunch of butterflies before(!)

This year was astounding. Many new species, and yes, the precious Monarchs feeding and laying eggs & growing fat caterpillars in abundance. An added bonus on the Common Milkweed plants – a critter who even surprised our university biology department friends till Google saved the day. Try googling Milkweed Tiger Moth(!) We had those gorgeous babies all over our plants for most of the summer, even though we never did spot the rather drab, night-flying adults.

These days, even though the hummingbirds, catbirds and warblers are gone till next spring, we’re still seeing migrating White-throated Sparrows, and our local gang of residents is moving in closer to the house after a fruitful year of nesting in the hedgerows and woods.

Many of them seem to enjoy gorging themselves on Red-Osier Dogwood berries, just as soon as they ripen. The big floppy bushes make for pretty comical viewing, with all the birds hanging upside down, flopping around awkwardly, & doing whatever they have to do to pluck those delicious fruit.

Just plain good for the spirit……

NOW. ENOUGH. Back to the steaming pit of politics, sigh…..

….. but thanks for the respite…..

Since these Monarchs come up from Mexico I think instead of 700 miles of fencing we need to arm the Border Patrol with 700 butterfly nets. Then there are the hummingbirds, those shifty little characters…

selise — men have tried all kinds of political solutions WRT to the Palestinian-Israeli question. While I respect former President Jimmy Carter immensely, I think this is a blind spot for him.

Unless there is more economic stability in Palestine, money and politics from outside will influence Palestinians (a la Hezbollah, for example). It is not part of conscious, articulated thought among Likudniks, but the Likud faction does not feel it has to kowtow in any way to an economically-inferior entity, no compromise necessary; it is the same kind of thinking that unified the PNAC and set in motion their hegemonic aims (i.e., the U.S. has no economic or military equal, therefore it does what it will with disregard for any inferior).

Where are the women of Palestine? Where are the women of Afghanistan? Where are the women of Iraq? Until we begin to see them in the media talking freely and acting of their own volition, these places will continue to suffer; their women are a barometer. And their economic and political stability will be bound up in the question of women.

I keep wondering how many parents of pages were paid off or told to keep it quiet when they tried to report ‘inappropriate behavior’.

OT..The forgotten wars. Nine US Soldiers killed around Baghdad. One Sunday, eight Monday. As Woodward’s book pointed out, there are at least 100 attacks/day against US soldiers in Iraq. These kids are being thrown into a physical and psychological meat-grinder for nothing.

Steve @ 7:39

I of course want them all to be held accountable for this most egregious dereliction of duty

and

I have issues with the 9/11 Ommission itself and it is underscored by this 7/10 Condi story.

There’s a film out there – endorsed by and featuring Jersey Girls and other media prominent 9/11 Families

The film makers make 2 inescapable conclusions – The 9/11 Commission conciously ignored pieces of the puzzle AND TradMed really outdid themselves wrt being WH compliant and clinically sloth in reporting a major event in US History

again I urge everyone to watch the film as their schedules allow (1 hour 24 min)

http://www.mediachannel.org/PressForTruth2.htm

Redshift @
166

Anne @ 161

Sam Seder says Atrios is reporting via ABC that Boehner is throwing Hastert under the bus…

TPM describes it as “Boehner is re-blaming Hastert…” *g*

I think we need a bigger bus.

John Casper @ 84

OfT from the prior thread, this imo is the cutting edge of the Foley cover-up.

John Casper says:
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:42 am

From a Buffalo blog, Buffalo Geek, Congressman Reynolds (R:NY): “I took it to my Supervisor”

John Casper, thanks for the link. This is priceless.

I suggest that you study the demeanor of this member of the Foley Five Predator Coverup Team in the video clips.

Shrugging shoulders; tapping hand nervously on side of lectern; trying to be dismissive and calm. Very interesting. What’s next?

Clean up on 166 and 167 please.

First draft, my understanding of the major players at this time. Please feel free to correct or add to.
Foley hit on a page from Lousiana. That got the Lousiana Repbulican, Rodney Alexander, involved. I think Alexander went to NY Republican Reynolds, but perhaps he went to IL Republican John Shimkus who chairs the Page program. Somehow it got to Reynolds and then it got to Hastert. Last June Foley gave Reynolds $100,000, btw.
Democrats on the page board were never informed.

1,274 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Ed*ard Teller:

I think that your concern about what could constitute an “enemy combantant” is legitimate. We have all the enabling legislation in place to smoothly transition to a unitary government with concentration camps, compulsory military service and formal declarations of war against specific (read small) countries.

I agree with you and your fear of the possibilities…this election is our last chance ta stop the rollin’ nightmare and even if we knock the fascists outta the box in November, I’m not sure the Democrats have the stones ta do what is necessary to keep it from happening again.

KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER…THIS IS THE REAL THING!!

Ellen Lincourt @ 132

Let’s never forget who the Taliban are!

This is what the Taliban did to woman who left their homes without a male relative, or who showed their ankels, or who tried to work

http://www.rawa.org/murder-w.htm

They should get along fine with Bush and his buddies.

selise @ 157

Twisted Martini @ 142
Tell your friend that right now Ned *is* in the trenches. It’s his neck he’s sticking out for us. He has gone against the establishment. His position on ethics in Congress is just one example. He walks door to door. He greets. He waves. He gets harrassed by Lieberthugs. And there is still a residual hostility to Lamonters. Please tell your brother that Ned is in the trenches and not a limosine liberal. There’s no red carpet here in CT.

Remek @ 138

So Hastert’s going to apparently fall on his sword and let everyone blame him. I guess they figure the media would rather concentrate on him rather than the truth? (ha!)

(Wonder what kind of $$$$ guarantees he’ll be getting for doing that?)

Maybe he gets to say, “Let the healing begin.”

new thread: Republican-point-the-finger-orama

John Casper @ 177

First draft, my understanding of the major players at this time. Please feel free to correct or add to.
Foley hit on a page from Lousiana. That got the Lousiana Repbulican, Rodney Alexander, involved. I think Alexander went to NY Republican Reynolds, but perhaps he went to IL Republican John Shimkus who chairs the Page program. Somehow it got to Reynolds and then it got to Hastert. Last June Foley gave Reynolds $100,000, btw.
Democrats on the page board were never informed.

Add in this little nugget: Reynolds’ Chief of Staff had previously been Foley’s chief of staff before moving to Reynolds’s office.

Good gravy. I tripped on a word and am stuck in moderation.

Wonder if it was H*zboll*h? L*kud? PN*C?

W*men in combination with any of those words?

[sigh]

d r i f t g l a s s weighs in

[snip]

This is, in fact, a very short story.

The head of America’s premier intelligence agency came to the President’s closest advisor — his National Security Advisor — and warned her that the United States was about to be attacked by a known enemy of the United States.

An enemy that had attacked and killed Americans before.

But he wasn’t talking about Iraq, which was the ONLY subject this Administration wanted to discuss, so she told him to fuck off.

And two months later, 3,000 American citizens died.

[snip]

nambla-de-da . . .

another smoking msgop poll to have at . . .

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15115971/

The Afghan people have the right to decide their own future, all parties need to be at the table, including the Taliban (much as I despise them!). The Afghan people know them and can decide for themselves if they want them in power. I say bring back King Zahir Shah and his entourage; we have to stop anointing puppets. During his reign, Afghanistan was as close to being a democracy as it ever was. He knows his people and has the vision of a leader.

Shah was born into a family of Pashtuns (of the Durrani Popalzay clan) Afghanistan’s largest ethnic group, he was also educated in the culture of Afghanistan’s Persian-speakers, giving him access to both groups.

He instituted programs of political and economic modernization, ushering in a democratic legislature, education for women and other such changes. These reforms put him at odds with the religious militants who opposed him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahir_Shah

P J Evans @ 171

I keep wondering how many parents of pages were paid off or told to keep it quiet when they tried to report ‘inappropriate behavior’.

Maybe, PJ, but to find this out we need to start following the known money: Foley’s $100,000 contribution to the NRCC, chaired by Reynolds.

Sidney Blumenthal called attention to this philanthropic act (so to say) on Sunday. We now know that Kirk Fordham, Foley’s chief of staff, went on to become Reynolds’s, apparently not for lack of continuing devotion to Foley, since he made a last ditch effort to get ABC to tone down the disclosure.

There are more potential quid pro quos here than you can shake a stick at. Sidney asked Republicans to return any such funds as tainted. Who can say none were disbursed to parents?

I wouldn’t assume so, but you really never know, and it’s the sort of question that could pump-prime the hush money issue, triggering frantic denials of the worst of the worst and leaving the rest open to debate. So I like.

Since politically speaking it’s not the crime but the cover-up, and since hush money is the best evidence of one, I’m stunned that the money nexus has yet to get legs. Or am I missing something in the reporting?

George Tenet deserves his Medal of Freedom just because of the farce he is witnessing regarding whether or not he told our sleeping pols about the impending Al Qaeda attack, and whether these sleeping pols told the 9/11 Commission, and why the 9/11 Commission didn’t check to see what the follow-up, if any, was, and why this HUGE fact didn’t make it into the Commission’s Report, and why the whole sorry cast are changing their lies time after time. Evidently I gave Ben-Veniste credit which he may not/didn’t deserve.

My laugh of the day: The Times has a picture of the usurper waving from his plane’s steps, with the caption that he is heading out for 40 days of mostly campaigning even though the Republicans don’t want to be seen with him.

We are all Alices in Wonderland.

cbl@173..I think the point I am trying to make is that as more “stuff’ comes out, the behavior looks willful rather than a dereliction of duty. I can easily imagine that Cheney, Libby, Rumsfeld,Rice, et al made the calculation that an attack on the US would advance the Iraq war plans. I think they were thinking in terms of suicide bombers in shopping malls, truck bombs in building etc. They discounted the possibility of “A-rabs” being able to do what they did. The 9/11 attack really screwed the plan because the Iraq war was delayed. The schedule of Iraq. Syria, Iran got really messed up because of the extent of the attack but not by the fact of the attack.

The information hemorrhage has begun, and I think there are enough people who know pieces of the puzzle, what ever that is, who are now going to leak. Time will tell.

RevDeb @ 36

Thanks for that. This is way out of my pay grade of understanding. It would seem to me that if we get the Wag the Dog meme out over and over again before it could happen it would backfire.

I agree completely. The more we get the Wag the Dog scenario out there, the less likely it is to succeed, and I don’t see much downside if it turns out we’re wrong. The wingnuts will whine either way, and everyone else will forget about it.

Taliban equals al qaeda, Bill, or have you forgotten that for some reason because I, for damn sure, have not.

Appeasement will not work with militants,. . .

At the risk of sounding like a man-bashing shrew, they cannot see the answers because they are men.

Wow. This post essentially argues that any regime that denies rights to women should be invaded by US troops, who along with NATO, will impose a different regime on the indigenous people. It argues that we should not negotiate with anyone from the displaced regime, because they are so evil that their word can never be trusted. If one does not agree with this perspective, it is because one is a man, and therefore blind to the truth. Did I miss something?

Are we now arguing that the US should invade and overthrow several other regimes in the ME that suppress woman’s rights? Should we go to war with any regime that has citizens who may look upon al-Qaeda and OBL as having a point about the presence and effects foreign troops on their societies? I thought those were neocon arguments. You can justify a lot of wars if you buy into that.

John Adams was a militant; so were Thomas Jefferson and Tom Paine and George Washington. Many of those we regard as “patriots” were, from the British point of view, “terrorists.” Of course, they were also men.

In the final analysis, it seems highly unlikely that the US/NATO can pacify Afghanistan without the Taliban laying down their arms. The number of troops needed to “defeat’ the Taliban is unknown. No one has provided any assessment, realistic or otherwise, of the consequences of having an occupying force at whatever level of US/NATO troops would be needed to “defeat” the Taliban and pacify the country long enough to make the country self sustaining. There is no reason to believe that the logic of the NIE’s conclusion, that our occupation of Iraq is creating a breeding ground for more “terrorists,” does not also apply to Afghanistan.

If that is what we face, then talking to the “enemy,” and stopping the demonization of them, is at least worth discussing. There are lots of questions to ask: What role would they play? How much power would they have? What institutions would be in place to ensure humane government? What would it take to create such institutions. (By the way, we haven’t solved these issues in the United States.)

But saying we should never talk to a group that represents a sizeable part of the population is, in my view, a recipe for endless war.

thank you scarecrow!

Afghanistan is and always has been an annoying inconvenience for the Neo-cons and their enablers. Anything that causes deviation from the PNAC script is a problem. In their big picture they don’t give a shit about the Taliban or bin Laden.

AZ Matt at 166

You just put me back in the doldrums again. All that fence %*&## makes me physically ill!

Seriously, I appreciate your comment.

I haven’t seen ANYONE mention the devastating effect of that idiotic fence project on wildlife migration & just normal daily life. Silly wild things – even the endangered species don’t seem to respect artificial human borders – duh!

Lou Dobbs twisted the knife recently by spewing a sneering bunch of filth about all the stoopid tree-hugging nature-lovers who were against the fence, egad.

Wish someone with some clout would take Dobbs on, the big overblown numbskull bigot!

Hey, all you professional biologists and park rangers and the like. PRETTY PLEASE?!

well said, scarecrow!

It is way, way too simplistic to tag the Taliban as Pashtun. We here in the West may need to use “labels” to make things easier to understand, but that is precisely the thing that obfuscates reality and complex issues. We should stop it, imho. Our young and imperious country has quite aptly demonstrated a profound and embarrassing lack of knowledge of language/culture/history and much more…

We left the Sunnis and Baathists out of “negotiations” in Iraq and look where we are now…

but that Republican Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist thinks we should just negotiate with the Taliban and bring them into the Afghan government.

Uh didn’t poor little colin powell say this five years ago? Might have saved 1 or 2 lives had someone listened

From the recent reports I’ve heard (NPR, I think), the “neo-Taliban” are no longer pushing hardline Islamic law, which is one of the reasons for their increasing popular support. Another is that the central government and occupying forces are focused on hunting Taliban and terrorists, rather than protecting the population (hmmm, why does that sound familiar.) Which is not to say they wouldn’t go back to it if they gained power again, but it suggests that the same popular support might potentially be channeled in a positive way.

Just wondering if the GOP leaked Foleygate to get Woodward off the front pages. Would you rather have to deal with Foleygate or Iraq/9-11 fiasco? just wondering….they knew Booby’s book was coming out this week and they knew about Foley since 2001.

scarecrow @ 191

Wow. This post essentially argues that any regime that denies rights to women should be invaded by US troops, who along with NATO, will impose a different regime on the indigenous people. It argues that we should not negotiate with anyone from the displaced regime, because they are so evil that their word can never be trusted. If one does not agree with this perspective, it is because one is a man, and therefore blind to the truth. Did I miss something?.

I did not hear anyone saying that the Taliban’s treatment of women gave the U.S. a pretext to invade. The Taliban is not the only major player, and it’s not certain that all the “indigineous”(a patronizing terms you hear Westerners use again and again) people want them back. In fact what I was arguing and probably others is that the Taliban is too hot to bring to the table. There are Pashtuns that will not want them. And any major concession made to the Taliban will surely turn the Shiites in Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq against us. Furthermore the Repuglikans will probably not be negotiating with the Talibans with any view toward stablity and peace in Afghanistan, it is only meant to be an irritant to Iran, who they now consider their greatest enemy. If that follows, they will draw Iran into a war. I have no faith that the Rethuglikans will not arm the Taliban simply to make incursions into iran.

RAW says the the page who received the IM’s has been threatened..more to come..wingnut values at work!

mui @ 169

That is a male mindset and a neocon mindset.
It somehow doesn’t occur to them to help establish an empowered class of working and middle class people, establishing protections of life and property, better healthcare etc. establishing protections against warlords etc. etc. etc. (Personally I like the idea of an all female militia.) The world is too complicated for the neocons and they hate experts like Juan Cole.

Hey! The problem isn’t that they’re male. Lots of us (like that male Juan Cole guy, for example) are perfectly capable of conceiving of complex (and effective) responses to complex problems, and it’s not like there aren’t any women guilty of pigheaded oversimplification (Condi, anyone?)

The neocons, like all conservatives, are at their core about protecting traditional holders of power from change. But the fact that neocon = pro-male-power doesn’t imply that male = pro-neocon.

Redshift @ 197

From the recent reports I’ve heard (NPR, I think), the “neo-Taliban” are no longer pushing hardline Islamic law, which is one of the reasons for their increasing popular support. Another is that the central government and occupying forces are focused on hunting Taliban and terrorists, rather than protecting the population (hmmm, why does that sound familiar.) Which is not to say they wouldn’t go back to it if they gained power again, but it suggests that the same popular support might potentially be channeled in a positive way.

The Taliban *had* popular support and for people with short memories longing for a quick solution they will have it again, but the first time around turned ugly very quickly over night. All they did was exchange Soviets for even more degradation, as far as I am concerned.

mui — all good points. As with so many other issues, we cannot trust our own government to deal with any of this in a responsible manner. So advocating they have “discussions” with the “enemy” is risky no matter what.

scarecrow @ 191

But saying we should never talk to a group that represents a sizeable part of the population is, in my view, a recipe for endless war.

And your point? War is life blood to the war party. Endless war is it’s fondest dream.

mui @ 200

In fact what I was arguing and probably others is that the Taliban is too hot to bring to the table. …

Hmm. I think part of the problem is that the administration has been using the term “Taliban” in Afghanistan the way they use “terrorists” in Iraq — as a sweeping term to demonize everyone who’s fighting against our forces and the government we support.

I certainly agree that the leaders of the Taliban regime are too hot to be brought into any government. But from what I’ve read, there are plenty of fighters who weren’t active members of the Taliban regime who are now being dubbed “Taliban.” If so, those are people who will need to be drawn into the political system if the fighting is ever to be stopped.

Peterr @ 30

Incomprehensible?

I do not think that word means what Condi thinks it means.

You beat me to it. My name is Inigo Montoya…you keeled my father…prepare to DIE!

Redshift @ 205

mui @ 200

In fact what I was arguing and probably others is that the Taliban is too hot to bring to the table. …

Hmm. I think part of the problem is that the administration has been using the term “Taliban” in Afghanistan the way they use “terrorists” in Iraq — as a sweeping term to demonize everyone who’s fighting against our forces and the government we support.

I certainly agree that the leaders of the Taliban regime are too hot to be brought into any government. But from what I’ve read, there are plenty of fighters who weren’t active members of the Taliban regime who are now being dubbed “Taliban.” If so, those are people who will need to be drawn into the political system if the fighting is ever to be stopped.

Then let’s start distinguishing dissenting partisans from Fundamentalist Talibanists who helped turned Afganistan into even more abysmally failed state than before. The ones who thought they were the Islamic version of the Red Guard. Taliban is then a very poor word.

Juan Cole, April 17, 2006:

. . .There has been much less trouble in post-war Afghanistan than in post-war Iraq. This result comes in large part because most Afghans, including a lot of Pushtuns, despised the Taliban. It turns out that the Iraqi Baathist Socialist Party had more grass roots, at least among Sunni Arabs. In contrast, the large Pushtun Taliban were not liked by a lot of Pushtuns. A city like Qandahar was relatively cosmopolitan and chafed under the restrictions of the mostly rural Taliban fighters, with their almost Monty Python puritanism.

But there were districts, tribes, and regions where the Taliban were in fact popular, and these have not gone away. Indeed, over time some of the Taliban (and perhaps other disgruntled local forces) have regrouped.

This minor revival does not matter in most of the country. The Tajiks (who speak a form of Persian) were always die hard opposed to Talibanism, as were the Hazara Shiites for their own reasons. And as for the 10 percent of the population in the north that is Uzbek, well, they massacred thousands of Taliban in Mazar when the unwary seminarians took the city and let their guard down.

So the Taliban revival is a mostly Pushtun phenomenon, affecting places like Hhost and Qandahar, old al-Qaeda stomping grounds. A US base near Khost gets so much enemy fire that it is called Rocket City

.

all the talk about tactics and framing are wonderful, but these people have total control over the government and believe in power above all else.

until everyone realizes we can win all the elections in the world, but that these people will stop at nothing to keep total control and a one party state, and that fighting these folks means more than a blog or a donation or a joke, we’re still in deep shit.

time to go to south america…

This is interesting. The Journal does not go as far as Drudge in suggesting (indeed, claiming) that Foley is the victim here, but they are nudging up to Drudge: the Journal suggests that there might really be no victims here.

But in today’s politically correct culture, it’s easy to understand how senior Republicans might well have decided they had no grounds to doubt Mr. Foley merely because he was gay and a little too friendly in emails. Some of those liberals now shouting the loudest for Mr. Hastert’s head are the same voices who tell us that the larger society must be tolerant of private lifestyle choices, and certainly must never leap to conclusions about gay men and young boys. Are these Democratic critics of Mr. Hastert saying that they now have more sympathy for the Boy Scouts’ decision to ban gay scoutmasters? Where’s Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi on that one?

http://www.opinionjournal.com/…..=110009033

orangejumpsuit @ 210

This is interesting. The Journal does not go as far as Drudge in suggesting (indeed, claiming) that Foley is the victim here, but they are nudging up to Drudge: the Journal suggests that there might really be no victims here.

But in today’s politically correct culture, it’s easy to understand how senior Republicans might well have decided they had no grounds to doubt Mr. Foley merely because he was gay and a little too friendly in emails.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/…..=110009033

But here again,like the Catholic Church, the Republicans and the WSJ are trying to link being a pedophile with being gay.

It’s untrue and it’s a disgusting tactic!

I would have though that Frist’s comments were entirely predictable.

The Afghan situation has always been less than the Iraq situation in terms of importance since day #1 of the Iraq war. Cutting and running in Afghanistan is entirely acceptable since there really isn’t anything in Afghanistan for us anyways.

But Iraq has all that nice oil, and 90% of the freshwater in the region flows through Iraq at some point.

Afghanistan has never been a priority for this administration. Why would that change when things started to go nasty there? Much easier to cut bait and leave a place you don’t really care and have never cared about.

Christy and Mui at various points above (22, 28, 37, 55): I am not fighting the Republican war party to put in power the Democratic war party. I do not believe in surrender, but if you are saying no negotiations with the Taliban, you mean either get a draft going and a much wider war or else stay the current course which is getting worse very fast. At least be honest and spell it out for those of us who do not support a wider war. (and if you do not mean that please let me know what the goals are in Afghanistan).
Rayne @ 62: della Rovere is the main character in a marvelous postwar (post WWII, that is) Italian film. “General della Rovere” and if you haven’t seen it, I urge you to get it tonite and see it at once. Seriously.
You are right, I do not regularly post here, although I do (under a different nom-de-blog) at TPM cafe.

della Rovere @214 . . . but if you are saying no negotiations with the Taliban, you mean either get a draft going and a much wider war or else stay the current course which is getting worse very fast. At least be honest and spell it out for those of us who do not support a wider war.
That’s not what we’re saying. What I am saying is it is good to keep critical distance.
1) How much of player is the Taliban, really? Many Pashtun and other ethnicities–the Hazara Shiites, Tajiks and Uzbeks– despised the Taliban and probably still do. As far as I know antiTaliban makes up the majority of Afghanistan. Please read Juan Cole for this. Negotiation with Taliban may be incendiary for the majority of Afghanistan > Civil War. A possibility that makes it bad RealPolitik.
2) The Taliban has had historical conflicts with Iran and Shiites in general, as well as the Uzbeks. If we negotiate will we turn the Shiites of Iran, Afghanistan and Iraq against us? Is this a way for the Repuglikans to get back at their biggest enemy of the moment. Agreement with the Taliban may be an irritant and a means to draw Iran into war. Again bad faith politics on the part of the Repuglikans and bad Realpolitik.
3) I am hell-bent on *not* spreading the war further, particularly to Iran. Please read our arguments about the big picture and other players and the nasty history of the Taliban before you make judgments about whose ideas will cause more war or a draft as you say.