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[Update: Hastert and Boehner scrambling for cover, calling for criminal investigation, per the front page of the LA Times. I don't think this thing is going away.]
Who knew about Mark Foley and his inappropriate online sexual contact with House pages, and when did they know it?
This morning John Boehner threw Dennis Hastert under the bus, then walked it back for reasons still unknown (but those who suspect that Hastert knows where a few bodies are buried and made that clear would not be accused of being naive). Also the boss of the page in question, Rep. Rodney Alexander, let it be known that he had reported the matter to National Republican Congressional Committee Chairman Tom Reynolds today. How praytell shall we read this?
Reynolds released this statement:
Rodney Alexander brought to my attention the existence of e-mails between Mark Foley and a former page of Mr. Alexander's.
Translation: In bringing this to the attention of the NRCC, the sole purpose of which is the election of Republicans to Congressional seats, Alexander obviously thought that the overriding concern in this matter was the effect it could have on elections.
Despite the fact that I had not seen the e-mails in question, and Mr. Alexander told me that the parents didn't want the matter pursued, I told the Speaker of the conversation Mr. Alexander had with me.
Translation: Abuse of power and inappropriate sexual solicitation are no big deal if the parents don't care, and hey, there's a fat man standing over there. Ask him.
Mr. Alexander has also said he took the matter to the Clerk of the House. An investigation was then conducted by the Clerk and John Shimkus on behalf of the House Page Board.
"On behalf of the House Page Board?" I don't think so (via email):
Congressman Dale Kildee (D-MI), the Democratic Member of the House Page Board, released the following statement today:
"As the Democratic Member of the House Page Board, any statement by Mr. Reynolds or anyone else that the House Page Board ever investigated Mr. Foley is completely untrue.
"I was never informed of the allegations about Mr. Foley's inappropriate communications with a House Page and I was never involved in any inquiry into this matter.
"The first and only meeting of the House Page Board on this matter occurred on Friday, September 29 at approximately 6 p.m., after the allegations about Mr. Foley had become public."
Translation: Ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce you to our scapegoat, John Shimkus.
Reynolds is also claiming he told Hastert. Hastert says he doesn't remember (are there so many GOP sex scandals being reported that they no longer stand out in his mind? I might actually believe that.) Meanwhile, watch video at Crooks & Liars of Nancy Pelosi calling for an investigation as all the Republicans boo loudly. Of course the shamelessly culpable Boehner tries to block the resolution.
Translation: Accountability? Never heard of it.
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F I T Z ! ! !
Oh Fitz!
sorry about the ot so soon, but this is incredible information I just powted on the previous
think [progress has the story
colon powell didn’t resign, he was fired;
Jane, I have to complain on this post. I wait for your posts patiently, only to have them be only about a page long.
See, Balrogs eat snark. And if they don’t get enough, they get cranky. And, well, we all know what cranky Balrogs do (Lord of the Rings I: Fellowship of the Ring).
I’ll expect better effort in the comments section.
oh, cbl, thanx for the clarke information way back, , helples alot
I read this on Huffpo and got a kick out of it:
“Do I make you horny?”
No, you make me wonder how my tax dollars are being spent!
Go Iowa!!
Jane!
“Translation: Abuse of power and inappropriate sexual solicitation are no big deal if the parents don’t care, and hey, there’s a fat man standing over there. Ask him.”
We at FDL extend apologies to all fat men.
The clip of the Republicans booing a call for an investigation and soundbites of them ratting on each other should be made into an ad and shown in the districts of everyone involved if not nationally.
Damn I hope this doesn’t get too complicated for the simple-minded Press to work it every day. Can Hastert actually swing for this? Oh hope springs eternal.
On a lighter note, it appears the Golden Gophers (Showers) have the Wolverines exactly where they want them.
Down only 21-7. Twisted-Odd persons, prepare to donate to ActBlue!
Bally
… so Colin Powell was thrown away like a used Kleenex?
Repost from a previous thread.
All these “men” should have the following quote tattooed to their foreheads.
“To be a man is, precisely, to be responsible.”
-Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Oh, and Ha-Ha!
http://apnews.myway.com//artic…..FJUG0.html
shooogarp @ 13
Or, ‘America’s Revenge’.
The timing on this is perfect. The ironic thing is that that despite all the fuckups in regards to Iraq, it’s going to be page boy buggering (and the apparent coverup) that hands us the House this fall.
I just sent John Laesch, the cute Democrat running against Denny Hastert, a pensioner’s pittance via ActBlue http://www.actblue.com/page/blueamerica
*ilson46201 @ 12
man that doesn’t help me
I can’t for the life of me fiigure why he’s loyal to bush
he’s got tons to say and has not, he needs to put his country before his loyalty to Bush, and way ahead of his personal problems which Bush is obvously using to keep him quite
it’s clear to me bush, rove, or cheney are holding something over colon powells head
I wonder what THAT is
Aravosis has an alternate reason for Alexander to tell Reynolds. Reynolds had just hired Foley’s chief of staff. So was the mention to Reynolds about politics? — or was it, “Hey, Foley’s up to his tricks again, ask your new guy how we’re supposed to deal with this Page and his family, your guy’ll know.”
Also, no dates appear in the preliminary statement from the Speaker’s office, and the Clerk of the House is unnamed. Was it the now-former Clerk, Jeff Trandahl? If so, was his leaving connected to Shimkus’ handling of the Page emails? Or did Shimkus lean on a newly appointed Clerk of the House to go along with his non-investigation of Foley?
Lotsa questions. Not a lotta answers. It’s not the crime, it’s the coverup.
Except, of course, it’s also the crime. Where the fuck is Foley now?
Powell was kept around for the election to make the boy-king look more responsible and trustworthy. Dumped when—and as soon as—he was no longer needed politically. Typical: politics before functional policy.
Balrog @
4
err…Balrog…
I think I just heard the bridge snap.
Watch out for the landing at the top of the spiral stairs – killer view!
Robert Paehlke @ 9
It was actually worse than that. They were booing mothers and grandmothers.
Tom @ 16
I couldn’t agree more. My fiance (eight days and counting…) who is fairly apolitical called me this morning to talk about this. This issue cuts.
Republicans boo mothers and grandmothers! Pass it on!
all this stuff coming from the GOP is very confusing to most voters – all they know is some Republican was messing around with a boy and had to quit in a real hurry but his bosses knew about it all the time.
Good summary?
“it’s clear to me bush, rove, or cheney are holding something over colon powells head
I wonder what THAT is”
Can you say JFK?
me to me @ 18
Felix threatened to expose the fact that he’s a Macaca.
I got EPU’D from last thread:
===
I wonder why Mahoney switched parties one year ago? Did he know about the Foley saga?
I just read that he was a GOP–its funny, but I met Mahoney about a month ago and the first thing I thought after shaking his hand was this: There is no way that this guy is a Democrat. He, like George Bush, claims he is a rancher.
From http://www.940news.com/nouvell…..p;id=93077
Mahoney on Saturday criticized Republican leaders for not fully investigating Foley when e-mails to the 16-year-old page were brought to their attention about a year ago. Pages are high school students who attend classes under congressional supervision and work as messengers.
“It looks to me that it was more important to hold onto a seat and to hold onto power than to take care of our children,” Mahoney said. “I think that’s wrong. I think that’s what’s wrong with Washington.”
Mahoney, a millionaire financial services executive who switched parties last year before entering the race, campaigned Saturday with Sen. John Kerry.
In Friday’s WaPo politic chat I had the following exchange re: Steno Sue getting played by Ken Mehlman:
Though the answer I recieved is nonsensical (aware of what?), I think this sets up a fun set of questions to ask these guys this week about Hastert and his walkback.
I have been researching coverage by major newspapers of the period immediately following the 2004 election. There were several stories about Powell’s ‘resignation,’ and Colin said repeatedly that it was a mutual decision between him and Bush, that he was not asked to leave, that he had only planned to serve one term. White House spokesmen also gave the story that Powell was not fired or asked to leave.
Lying Republicans.
shooogarp @ 26
Tell me more, please.
This weekend I created a comprehensive index for all of the posts on my blog. It’s a pretty diverse collection of essays and comments on politics, education, and science. Now I discover that my blog has become very popular with the Blogger search engine because the index post has so many words in it! Blogger lists my blog when asked for such search strings as “12 year old model” and “school sex video”. (Yes, the words are all there, although widely scattered.)
Damn. Now that he’s out of Congress, former Representative Mark Foley is sure to be visiting my blog! Damn!
Of course Powell was fired. Did anybody really think he just decided it was time to move on?
Curious in Central Texas @ 31
I might be conflating things I read long ago (and I’m sure the self-correcting FDL comments section will help me out here) but wasn’t it Powell’s wife’s concern for his safety that kept him from running for President?
Yes, I seem to remember safety being the stated reason for Powell not running for office. Thanks.
Border’s in GA today had STATE OF DENIAL out today. Although I did not want to support Woodward because of his work of late, the 30% off was just to tempting. I plan on starting it tonight. It must be time for Dennis Hastert’s phsical since he forgot that he had heard about Foley. Also he only thought that those 16 year boys were hot, and what’s the harm.
Given how quickly the much more explicit IMs — going back to 2003, no less — came out of the woodwork, you’d better believe there’s more shit out there. Like maybe Foley had physical contact with one of them. And that’s why he quit so suddenly, and why nobody wants to claim any knowledge other than casual hall chatter.
From billmon. Thank GOD he didn’t follow through on that long break he was talking about taking. I guess the material is just tooooooo good to not comment on. I mean it just writes itself, doesn’t it?
http://billmon.org/
Curious in Central Texas @ 35
With Felix’s group running around unchecked? Wise move.
http://members.tripod.com/secretpage_1/
~~Which brings me to other adults employed by the Page Program. Every year at page orientation Peggy Sampson tells the following joke to the parents of the pages: “if you give me written permission, I will hit your child.” Some parents laugh, and others shift awkwardly in their chair.
[]
Additionally, I am very concerned about the amount of time that a page spends in class. I have conservatively estimated that each page spends about 30% less time in class than his/her peers at home. I am filing a formal grievance with the Middle States Association, which accredits the school (2003)
http://www.nfwf.org/press/pres…..andahl.cfm
Washington, D.C. – September 30, 2005 – The National Fish and Wildlife Foundation announced today that Jeff Trandahl has accepted the position of Executive Director at the Foundation. Trandahl currently serves as Clerk of the US House of Representatives. He plans to assume his new position in November.[]
Trandahl joins the Foundation following 23 years of public service to the nation. He served on Capitol Hill as an assistant to Senator James Abdnor (South Dakota), Congresswoman Virginia Smith (Nebraska), and Congressman Pat Roberts (Kansas). He also worked on the House Committee on Appropriations, the Committee on House Administration and had extensive involvement with the House Leadership and the House Committee on Agriculture.
Why do all of the repiglican scandals always contain homosexual or pedophilia or both. Do they all think they’re Michael Jackson????
History books of the Bush era will have to be read with a gas mask.
Sorry to hog the comments, but check out Blunt in this pic:
http://apnews.myway.com/image/…..=D8KFFJUG0
Silvio Dante, anyone?
Hey Jane,
Just found out the boys from the BBC are going to be in CT. the last week of this election season.
Is there any other place in the whole world you’d really rather be?
We’re taking back three House seats and putting Lamont in the Senate here.Bet on it!!
Anyone willing to bet that the Republican Child Sex Scandal speeds up the coming attack on Iran?
Balrog @
39
Balrog – are you referring to George Allen?
What a shame no Democrat was running against this guy.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 46
Yes. Guess I should be more specific.
ccmask — excellent question. I’d already had my concerns about Mahoney since a grassroots candidate had been suppressed to make way for Mahoney, not a good move.
Anybody else remember the little problem with the email servers and a so-called security breach way back between 2001 and 2003?
At the time it looked like it was mostly about the Senate Judiciary Committee and Republican dirty tricks, spying on Dems to ascertain their strategies on judiciary candidates.
But now I’m wondering whether this was really about a larger problem, Republicans checking to see what Dems might have discovered about Republican hanky panky…sure would like to know more about that little boo-boo, in light of all that’s transpired since then.
I thought Powell was saying before the 2004 election that he might not stay around. Do I have that wrong or was he laying a groundwork bc he saw the writing on the wall?
BTW, someone over at DKos stated that one of the nutjob blogs outed the kid in LA.
Gonna hunt down the story to see if it’s true.
Re: the picture up top…
Is that some reference to George Felix Allen and his nickname for African Americans?
immanentize @ 52
Yes. La Macacaracha.
Sorry Imm, I hate being ‘that guy’…
watertiger @ 51
Frankly, I would have been amazed if they hadn’t. Because the pages are all clearly part of a vast liberal conspiracy to cast doubt on the Republican party’s sterling moral fiber.
Powell
anyone who has read the fabulous Sidney Blumenthal knows exactly what happens to anyone even considering a challenge to Cheney/Rumsfeld – for goodness sakes these goons neutralized then Vice President Nelson Rockefeller and Henry Kissinger at the height of his power and they were newbies at the time – geesh Colin, Andy . . .get a clue why doncha!
you do not become Chairman of the Joint Chiefs without being a serious political animal – how he didn’t see these two jackals coming for him is beyond me
if they ‘have’ anything on him, it’s more likely it’s his complicity in the Army’s cover up of My Lai
GrandmaJ @ 86
Likely from the same swine that are dogging Patty Wetterling. Ignore them Grandma, we in the North Country are headed toward a Blue Winter.
Mark Foley’s folly should make a great ad against my local GOP incumbent, congressman Don Sherwood – a man who tried to strangle his mistress and the police was called.
Ahh, the depths of hypocrisy… It’s time for the regular voter to connect the dots. It’s also time for the press to do its job.
watertiger @ 51
Here comes the swiftboat!
Excellent deconstruction. I wish all “official” statements came with your Cliff Notes.
Good work.
VG—nice job finding that link.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 46
that’s George FELIX Allen (he just hates that name!)
FL-16: Tim Mahoney
Tim Mahoney is the co-founder, Chairman and COO of vFinance, Inc, which manages in excess of $1 billion of client assets and has over 200 employees located in more than 30 offices nationwide. Mahoney is also the founder and President of The Center for Innovative Entrepreneurship (CIE), whose mission is to ensure America maintains its leadership position in innovation and entrepreneurship.
I have a friend who knows Powell, and although he hadn’t planned on staying the entire second term, he had hoped to leave on his terms. Powell should have left much earlier, but like the good soldier he didn’t. Personally I have more respect for those who are speaking out like Gen. Batiste (sp.) and others, they are true American heroes.
snip
“The improper communications between Congressman Mark Foley and former House Congressional pages is unacceptable and abhorrent. It is an obscene breach of trust,” Hastert, R-Ill., Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, and Majority Whip Roy Blunt, R-Mo., said in a written statement Saturday evening. “His immediate resignation must now be followed by the full weight of the criminal justice system.”
The House leaders said it is their duty to ensure House pages are safe. They said they are creating a toll-free hot line for pages and their families to call to confidentially report any incidents, and will consider adopting new rules on communications between lawmakers and pages.
more…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..y_reynolds
ccmask @ 62
And how’s that working out?
Powell leaving was not even an open secret, it was a well advertised fact only requireing confirmation.
For suffering relentless serial public humiliations at the hands of Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush himself in his role as serious, reasonable moderate, Powell gladly/reluctantly quit/was fired, take your picks in order to confirm your prejudices, and moved on to his lifes work. Padding his net worth as a motivational speaker by doing his James Earl Jones imitation as a deep voiced deep thinking man of principal.
His actual role was as an enabler for the most radical authoritarians and militarists. His presence was the decisive factor in Bush’s near win in 2000 and his standing beside Bush in Crawford post election represented the faint acompli that was the Florida result.
Cozumel @ 64
They’re just figuring this out now?
rMatey @ 41
Because being gay is the ultimate nightmare for the leading men in the party of family values. You swallow the fearful lie of authoritarianism, you repress everything ambivalent, and you become what you’re most intolerant of. There really is a deep logic to this; it was coming eventually, and it’s somehow no surprise that it looks like this. Sigh.
The only way to get to the bottom of the “Republicans’ Man-Boy Sex Scandal” is subpoena power.
ELECT DEMOCRATS TO CONGRESS
As to Colin Powell-he sure is a wimp.
Is there such a thing as a Charismatic Wimp?
If there is, thy name is Colin.
rapier @ 66
Colin Powell, human fig leaf.
re the Powell article:
“Powell’s credibility had been seriously undermined when the weapons he cited as the main justification for invasion turned out not to exist.”
Excuse me—weapons HE cited? I thought he was the one that yelled “Bullshit!” when he read what he was supposed to present to the UN.
As to whether he really was fired or not….
Which version is most beneficial to the White House?
I personally think he was fired because he was not amoral enough. Not quite on their level, anyway.
I think the story is coming out now because it provides a cover for them to hide behind. They have Woodward’s book, the NIE reports, Baghdad under curfew, attacks rising, Foley, Sen. Macaca Allen….
ctkeith – I sure hope and pray that Lamont wins. I cannot believe that there are dems still holding onto Joe. What are the ads there about? Does Ned have some good ones up?
He is just such a good guy — we really need those kind in D.C.
Eli @ 67
Eli @ 67
I think Hastert, Boehner and Blunt have gotten their stories together now. On Saturday night!
shooogarp @ 45
They have to get the supplies in place over there, first- but I wouldn’t put out of the question some Repub home grown terra. Remember anthrax?
Fascinating. Assrocket’s blog doesn’t seem to have any coverage of this story.
GrandmaJ @ 72
I haven’t seen any Lamont ads since the Sox/Yankee fans one, which I didn’t like, but I can tell you that Joe’s experienced. Very experienced. Much more so than Ned, who does not have any experience as a senator, unlike Experienced Senator Joe.
*ilson46201 @ 12
More like an old army boot.
Talk about the famous Bush tradition of loyalty. After going to the mat for Bush and lying to the United Nations to get us into war, Powell is rewarded by being fired in a brutal and humiliating way.
According to Woodward, on Powell’s scheduled (by Andrew Card) farewell meeting in the Oval Office, Bush doesn’t know why Powell is there. Bush doesn’t remember he had fired Powell. And this was the man who gave Bush his ticket to Baghdad. You see, loyalty is big in the Bush family, but it only runs in one direction.
For abetting in the death of thousands, Powell deserves whatever bad karma is coming his way, but he does not deserve to be humiliated by a man 10 times his inferior.
I can tell you one thing: Bush would not dare to be in the same room alone with Powell. He would shit in his pants.
I phoned the local sheriff’s office in the counties over which Rep. Foley once represented. They knew nothing of a sexual predator within their districts. One kind woman pointed me to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. I asked them why an admitted child predator is allowed to go free to which they responded they “are not allowed to comment on the matter”. Great country, eh?
Peace!
watertiger @ 75
They’re still checking the kerning on the IMs.
Richmond @ 74
that’s the only thing that worries me about Democrats winning – Bush/cheney hinted the terrorists would love that
Eli @ 67
As my four (and a 1/2) year old would say: Duh. (Dad)
PS If someone had the contacts and the energy, it would not be hard to discover Boehner’s issues and skeletons. One might just start with his wife in Cincinnati. Or at any bar in that city or Washington, D.C. It would a profitable investigation. Just sayin’
immanentize @ 82
Up, oppo, and awaaaay!
watertiger @ 51
and so it begins – the swiftboating of the pages. Rove gloats…
next chapter: traffic stops…
“never can tell what these pages were up to before they got to the Hill – sadly, sometimes you learn too late.”
“he never seemed like the sort of kid who’d try to wrestle a cop – it must have been the drugs.”
“the parents are always the last to know”
NOTE – All the quotes above are invented. They are fiction. They don’t describe the pages at all.
Nor do the swiftboaters.
But the quotes do describe what I believe Rove and Cheney will do to stay in power and out of the Hague: anything.
I hope the pages’ families have lots of friends over – all the time – until well after the elections.
And I hope the pages will understand if mom and dad decide to take away the car keys (or the equivalent).
After what Cheney and Rove did to the Republic and the Constitution, it seems like they have a thing for destroying pages.
Ok, at the risk of getting all Nancy Drew on your arses, I’m seriously thinking that there’s something pivotal about the clerk’s role in all of this.
Hastert says the clerk asked to see the contents of the email but was not allowed (something I find odd in and of itself–seriously begs the question of what kind of powers the clerk has to fulfill the demands of the position.) But compare that lack of awareness to Shimkus’s CYA press release, from last night’s RollCall, where he discusses the meeting where he and the clerk first confronted Foley:
“In that email exchange, Congressman Foley asked about the former Page’s well-being after Hurricane Katrina and requested a photograph. When asked about the email exchange, Congressman Foley said he expressed concern about the Page’s well-being and wanted a photo to see that the former Page was alright. “Congressman Foley told the Clerk and me that he was simply acting as a mentor to this former House Page and that nothing inappropriate had occurred. Nevertheless, we ordered Congressman Foley to cease all contact with this former House Page to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.”
Am I crazy or is Shimkus saying he and the clerk were sitting there discussing the emails with Foley? And if we agree that that’s what Shimkus is saying, do we really believe the clerk was sitting there listening to them talk about this while not knowing anything about their contents?
Any reporter worth his or her salt should be tracking this dude down, ASAP.
OT – but just to let you know — here in Minnesota someone, one of those funny 527 groups I think, are running ads saying, I kid you not, “do not vote”. Over and over and over — lots of people just saying “do not vote”. Then at the end they say “until you know exactly where your candidate stands on issues that you are concerned about.”
How’s that for an election cycle ad.
Aw, poor Cap’n Ed. He’s not too familiar with the law Foley helped enact:
CLARIFICATION: When I say resign, I mean from their leadership positions. Neither [Hastert nor Boehner] committed a crime, and their constituents should judge whether they should continue to represent them.
Although I give him faint praise for even acknowledging the event.
GrandmaJ @ 86
That’s an AARP ad
kirk murphy @ 84
I would like to think that there would be some serious backlash about swiftboating 16-year-olds, especially 16-year-olds who were getting hit on by creepy middle-aged representatives. But there probably won’t.
Repiglicans now stand for torture and perversion.
http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki…..x_Scandals
On Foley – I bet more incidents will be coming out of the woodworks – and high damage law suits. A pedaphile, doesn’t just wake up one day as say gee whiz!
OT (and sorry if this has been brought up today or yesterday) but there is a terrific piece in tomorrows NYTimes magazine on Howard Dean. The guy is brilliant – and gets credit in this piece. The one thing that is missing is how much $$ the Nets (Act Blue, Lamont supporters etc) are contributing to Democratic candidates outside of normal Democratic channels. It would be interesting sometime to see a piece on that (but maybe there already has been one and I missed it).
Eli @65: And how’s that working out?
I honestly don’t know. There’s not too much info about this Billion dollar company. I know he lives in Palm Beach but claims he is a rancher in Venice Florida. I also know that there is acreage in Venice for sale the same size of his in Venice. But, all this info is no longer on Google. Still looking.
I took a bunch of pics of him at the festival where I ran into him and emailed them to his campaign officer who then emailed me his thanks. Like I said earlier, if he is a Dem than I’m a topless dancer.
Do not accept any Delay in this scandal….
Good ole’ AARP – NOT. Is it supposed to motivate people? Obviously we would want all voters to analyze issues – but the AARP website or related propaganda would not be the first place I would start.
Oops, you don’t suppose they want all us to investigate issues using their information, do you? Don’t trust them anymore.
Heh. watertiger, the RNC-branded coverage’ll be there on Assrocket’s page before Monday. Bet you dollars-to-donuts they spent all day locked down with folks like CRC4PR.com, specialists in brand damage control. Hence the hotline (that’s exactly the kind of thing that the CRC4PR folks specialize in, call centers for clients who are likely facing class action lawsuits). They haven’t fully developed the storyline on this yet. I’ll bet every single one of these arrogant, selfish bastards simply buried their piece of the Foley puzzle, hoping it would go away or that a Republican majority would continue to "create reality" in such a way that they’d never have to look at their little nasty bits of the Foley mess. But now it’s clear they all were complicit by hanging onto their little bits of trashy Foley detritus, and it’s going to take come serious work to build a coherent story they can all cleve to firmly. F*ckups and slovely party whores. The lot of them. I only wish there had been one or two more Dems that could issue a press release like Rep. Kildee’s, to hammer home the point that they never bothered to do a damned thing, just like Katrina. Hell, they did less about this because there was no way to make a buck off this story.
immanentize @ 52
Here:
http://www.salon.com/news/feat….._sabornie/
(Warning: Salon — Watch an ad first.)
Cozumel @
88
Likely from the same swine that are dogging Patty Wetterling. Ignore them Grandma, we in the North Country are headed toward a Blue Winter.
Looks like CNN is getting ready to cover the Foley coverup wrt the Republican leadership–”The Foley Fallout”…
ccmask @ 92
Well, I meant, is the US maintaining its leadership in innovation? I’m kinda thinking that trashing the educational system (NCLB, ID) and rejecting science in general is driving us pretty rapidly backwards.
kirk murphy @ 84
Can’t happen. The kid was 16 – a minor. And anyone who knew was under legal obligation to turn Foley in.
@ 86
Here in NYC, AARP is running these adds. Very strange until the punch-line kick-in.
A commenter over at Eschaton (Dr. Wu) suggested that this sexcapade be called:
La Cage Aux Foley
Made me chortle.
…But Nancy Grace would rather talk about the death of Anna Nicole Smith [blonde woman]’s son.
Balrog @ 96
AARP has been running that ad on DISH network, for one, which is national.
Foley is CNN’s “Top Story”…
Oh. Never mind. :)
neurophius @ 102
Let’s tell her that no one can find the page……that’ll light a fire under her @ss!
ccmask @ 92
Really? ; )
Balrog – I am just disgusted at the hounding of Patty Wetterling. She isn’t a charismatic (I am a bit sick of this type anyway) speaker, but a very good person and will do a very good job for our area. But we are the reddest area in MN and because she is the ONLY one with even a chance here, they are going after her big time.
Doesn’t sound like she is getting much help from the National Party, but I am not in the know. All of our DFA group is working for her team in one aspect or another.
watertiger @ 101
heh. that’s a good one.
UptownNYChick @ 106
I think she’d rather grill the page until he breaks down and kills himself.
She’s gotten a taste for blood now.
Hastert is now saying he does “not specifically recall” hearing about the Foley incident until recently…
I couldn’t belive the Foley news this morning. I was in Tampa on a business trip and I wake up in the hotel and there is a newspaper by the door. Well, I can’t even remember the last time I read a newspaper.
Anyway, when I slid it out of the bag, I was giggling reading the story and I was so upset that I left my laptop home this trip. I was sure I was missing a whole bunch of snark!
neurophius @ 111
Denny, you’ll need to drop a couple before you try putting on Ronnie Reagan’s pants.
Poboy @ 90
oooh!
wish the title were:
Republican School-Kid Sex Scandal
or:
Republican Teen Sex Scandal
or better yet:
Republican Child Sex Scandal
but I loved the article…
[am I perseverating? yes.
Republican (repulsive meme) scandal
Republican (repulsive meme) scandal…..]
Has this been posted?
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10…..ref=slogin
WASHINGTON, Sept. 30 — Top House Republicans knew for months about e-mail traffic between Representative Mark Foley and a former teenage page, but kept the matter secret and allowed Mr. Foley to remain head of a Congressional caucus on children’s issues, Republican lawmakers said Saturday.
GrandmaJ @ 108
I know it. Howie Klein had said he was working to get her in the loop; maybe we should remind him next Saturday.
We know all too well what Patty has been through. What better candidate to represent us is there?
Be well.
How about “Paging Mr.. Foley….
This creep is sending inappropriate e-mails to a 16-year old boy and Hastert doesn’t “specifically recall?”
Keep digging Denny!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
vALLLEEE!!!
shooogarp @ 117
They may have told him at feeding time…..
bob @
37
watertiger @
51
These two facts are closely related. The outing is an attempt to intimidate anyone else who thinks about coming out of the woodwork.
But I’m pretty sure it’s far too late already.
CNN is asking viewers to call in and say whether they think there is a “political coverup” in the Foley case.
CNN is inviting you to call 1-800-807-2620 and say whether you think there is a coverup.
Hey imm- any lawyerly perspective on this? (Sorry if you made a comment and I missed it)
I believe the GOP House leadership was too busy worshipping the Golden Calf to notice.
Poboy @ 90
Just a few ideas on what the GOP is standing for:
Gang of Pedophiles
Group of Predators
Gaggle of Perverts
Galaxy of Pretenders
Gallery of Pukes
Grizzled Old Pricks
Gauntlet of Predators
Generals of Predation
Gamers of Public
Garbage of Politics
Gods of Pusillanimity
Globules of Purulence
Gropers of Pubescents
From Glenn-
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/
From ANC News:
Foley’s office says it is their policy to keep pictures of former interns and anyone who may ask for a recommendation on file so they can remember them.
The Congressional page program was started in the 1800s. In its current form, juniors from high school work on Capitol Hill after school or over the summer. The young man in question did not work or intern for Foley’s office.
Elizabeth Nicolson, Foley’s Chief of Staff, said they believe the e-mail exchange began when the page asked Foley for a recommendation and that the subsequent exchange was totally innocent. She said Foley’s office believes the e-mails were released by the opposition as part of an “ugly smear campaign.”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl…..rold_.html
GrandmaJ,
I thought at first they were trying the “don’t you tell me what to do!” tactic with that “Don’t Vote” ad. Now I don’t know what to think.
Susan in Iowa @ 122
The recording says it’s about Fromer President Clinton’s comments..
While we are all considering every angle of the horror in the house, let us not forget the recent revelations of Rove’s extreme quid pro quo relationship with Abramhof.
Funny how one scandal just drowns another (more serious?) one.
shooogarp @ 124
I think Foley was looking a bit higher.
Check the diary at KOS from Hassert’s opponent John Laesch
Response to Hastert/Foley Pagegate Scandal
by John Laesch
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..212758/946
Richmond @ 99
Hi Richmond – I sure agree with you about the legal obligation of all those aware of the GOP Congressmember’s child sex abuse crimes.
I honestly (no snark intended) don’t follow the “can’t happen” statement. If you could clarify, that would be great.
err – what is that can’t happen?
again, no irony here – I just don’t comprehend…but I’m happy to try!
Eli @ 131
&)&!
shooogarp @ 124
which part(s)?
guys, wapo has a five page piece of powell and man oh man it reads like a trashy novel
excellant reading
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..106_4.html
that’s not the first page, that’s the page I’m on, make sure you go to page one
I haven’t been this glued to a newspaper in about 15 years
ccmask @ 127
The e-mails are a little weird, but could probably be explained away, at least to the satisfaction of the 30-percenters. But what does she have to say about the IMs?
Valley Girl @ 124
Nothing to lawhead about — this is pure politics. I cannot figure out, however, why it happened when it did. I mean, it has been around, we now know, forever — and it doesn’t seem that the Dems had anything to do with getting it into the press.
marksb @
20
Powell deserved what he got. He’s been a toady to power all his life. He and his misdirected loyalty to power got used by Bush and then pitched out. My hope is that no one ever tries to resurrect him and his “quiet statesman” routine again.
Eli @ 137
There was a guy in my neighborhood that preyed on children in this way where it can always be explained away as “innocent” and “just a misunderstanding on the part of the child”. This is how these fuckers operate.
Man I’m pissed.
Dems should hit and hit hard on the family values theme.
Dream ad:
1. Open with orange sun coming up behind the Capitol Dome. Background music: “House of the Rising Sun.” Barely audible voice: “… and it’s been the ruin ….”
2. Cut to August 12 headline story: “Skinterns: shedding clothes in hopes of landing a job.” (It’s here.)
3. Grim voiceover on the story amid midriff shots and giggles, which melt into Foley and cover-up headlines with that awful timpani with doublebass cliche.
3. Cut to teen intern in DC pad. Parents with American Gothic accents on phone, kid looking out window at DC skyline. Mom: “So how goes it, Junior Congresswoman?” Long pause. Then, “The Congressman really likes the job I’m doing.” A tear forms in one eye. More silence.
4. Cut to parents. Mom cups receiver and nods to Dad, who shrugs helplessly and says nothing.
5. Grim voiceover returns. “Nothing is higher than public service. It’s not just our future. It’s theirs.”
4. End with successive fade-ins:
“Who’s running this Congress?”
“Had enough?”
“Vote Democratic.”
shooogarp- great link- thanks!
1-800-807-2620
CNN question for the night – call and tell them if you think the Foley scandal is a political coverup.
1-800-807-2620
LIN: Yeah, and names keep getting added to the list of people who might have known, might not have known. So the election is coming up in what, five weeks, Dana?
BASH: That’s right, a little under.
LIN: So how is all this information going to affect these guys during the coming campaign?
BASH: Well you know it — one of the reasons why it’s a Saturday and they all thought that they were going to be going home but these Republicans have been in their offices working furiously to try to put these statements out today, is because they’re trying to get the answers to these questions and trying to put this issue behind them. Because they know full well that, as you just heard, Democrats are going to try to pounce on this and use this as yet another example of the Republican-controlled Congress not in control if you will, especially on something that’s so sensitive and so potentially explosive when it comes to the issue of voters, parents, and their children. So that’s one issue. The other issue is, remember, they were there till very late last night, really early this morning. They were trying to make the case that they were doing some more legislative business, some big security measures did pass. I talked to several Republicans on the Hill today who were just tearing their hair out because reporters weren’t asking about that, they were asking about Congressman Foley and what the leaders knew and didn’t know.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRA…..nr.06.html
Siun @ 144
That was about WJC’s comments too. It’s always about Clinton…
Balrog – as for the ‘be well’ part, I am trying. Taking it one hour, one day at a time. I mostly read here to take my mind off what I am so very worried about – and today – whew!!! – lot’s of diversion.
Margot – I really couldn’t figure out the point of the ad. Although advising people they need to educated themselves about the issues, and certainly most older people (me included) do a good job at that. The ad just seems out of place or something.
Unless they are advising people to check with the AARP about ‘educating’ themselves – in which case it is a truly bad idea. As I mentioned, I am not on friendly terms with the AARP since they so messed my medicare coverage up so badly.
Also to Balrog – there are some pretty nasty ads up against Amy Klobachar too. As a County Prosecutor I hope she will ‘mention’ the current mess the republicans are in and ask if they want more of the same in D.C.
Remember Monicagate and how pissed the Gop was because “How could an elected official prey on our interns”. Gonna have to try to find some of them old quotes by the GOP..
UptownNYChick @ 130
I just found that out. I left a message anyway, then emailed them and told them their message is messed up.
House of Implosion
http://www.rollcall.com/issues…..263-1.html
~~As of Saturday evening, nearly a dozen House GOP lawmakers and staffers have acknowledged that they knew of the initial batch of non-sexually explicit messages from Foley to a 16-year-old former House page, some of them for a year or more. These include Hastert; Majority Leader John Boehner (Ohio); National Republican Congressional Committee Chairman Tom Reynolds (N.Y.); Reps. Rodney Alexander (La.) and John Shimkus (Ill.); Mike Stokke, the Speaker’s deputy chief of staff; Ted Van Der Meid, Hastert’s counsel; Paula Nowakowski, Boehner’s chief of staff; Jeff Trandahl, the former Clerk of the House; and another Hastert aide and Alexander’s chief of staff, according to public statements and GOP insiders.
I got a recording asking about Bill Clinton… and a full mailbox.
foiled again! grr.
Now CNN call-in line (still repeating the Clinton question) is saying you cannot use this mailbox as it is full.
Valley Girl @ 144
My current faves:
FDL (of course) (you are here)
Glenn Greenwald http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/
Billmon http://billmon.org/
rinse. lather. repeat.
Oh. And I like to polish my tinfoil hat at http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/
And upon further thought, I hope that the wingers get discouraged and hang up without leaving a message. We are never deterred.
Currently sixty-six young men and women are appointed by their Member of Congress to serve as Pages in the U.S. House of Representatives. Forty-four slots are reserved for Republican Pages.
To be eligible for the summer program, applicants must be 16 years of age at the time of their appointment, have a “B” average or better, and be willing to serve as a page for approximately one month during the summer before or after their junior year of high school. The definition of a “B” average is a 3.0 on a 4-point scale, or an 80 or better on a 100-point scale. Summer applicants who do not meet the minimum GPA requirement may have their application reviewed by the Page Board for consideration. Applicants should submit a completed application to their Member of Congress for review and recommendation. The Speaker’s Office will not accept applications from students directly – ONLY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS MAY FORWARD AN APPLICATION.
An official transcript of all grades (from 9th grade through at least the first semester of the current year) is required to verify the cumulative grade point average of “B” or better in the major courses. Only grades in the following subject areas will be included in the GPA tally: English, science, mathematics, social studies, and foreign language – ELECTIVES ARE NOT INCLUDED.
Along with the application form and transcript, the following items are required: social security number, a signed parental consent form, a 50-100 word essay on why they want to become a Republican Page, a resume of extra-curricular activities, three letters of recommendation, and a letter of support from the sponsoring Republican Member of Congress. Member must also submit a member Certification form indicating their knowledge of sponsorship of the student. The committee will consider only complete applications submitted in writing by a Republican Member.
The workday begins at 9:00 a.m. for summer Pages and extends to at least 5:00 p.m., or until the House adjourns for the day – whichever is later. The Pages report to their Page Supervisor where the first order of the day may be filing the Congressional Record from the previous day’s proceedings. The Pages serve primarily as messengers, delivering legislative material between the various buildings of Capitol Hill. During the course of the day, the Pages accumulate points for “runs” (or deliveries). Those with the highest number of points may be excused early when the House goes into late-night sessions.
The dress required for males is a navy blazer, long sleeved white shirt, dark gray slacks, dark socks, dark shoes, and a standard issue tie. For females, a navy blazer, long sleeved white blouse, dark gray skirt or dark gray pants, dark shoes, appropriate hose, and a standard issue tie are required. The ties, which are provided during orientation, are navy with red and white stripes.
Pages are required to live at the Page Residence Hall, 501 First Street, S.E., under the supervision of a director, assistant director, and four proctors who reside on the premises. The first floor is set aside for males and the second floor for females.
The triple rooms are furnished with twin beds, dressers, desks, and chairs. Each of the rooms has a large walk-in closet, a study area, toll-controlled telephone, private bathroom, and three air-conditioning units. A community room with color television is available on the first floor. A kitchen and pantry area is also available for Page use. A laundry room, study room, computer room, and fitness room are all located on the second floor.
The pages are paid approximately $1,568 gross per month, with an automatic payroll deduction of $400 to cover the cost of the dorm and five breakfasts, five lunch and seven dinner meals per week. It will be prorated for less than a month. They are responsible for their transportation to and from Washington and their uniform. In addition, a one-time refundable security deposit of $100 payable to the U.S. Treasury is required for the dorm.
Please keep in mind that Pages are employees of the U.S. House of Representatives, and are an important part of the legislative process. Before making your decision to become a page, it is imperative that you understand that all family activities, as well as home school and community activities, which would interrupt your Page School and/or work activities must be put on hold until you are no longer a Page. Pages will not be permitted to return home to attend family reunions, parent promotion ceremonies, family trips, home school activities such as conferences, sports events, proms, etc., if they occur during the work week.
neurophius @ 153
Try again. I got that one too, called back and left a message.
shooogarp @ 140
I have a feeling that as long as Hastert can plausibly claim that *all* he was informed about was the e-mails, I think he’s going to get away with this as just an honest mistake on his part, he was distracted by all his Weighty House Business, and didn’t think the e-mails were really all that creepy and inappropriate, and if only someone had come forward with those IMs, he would have booted Foley within the hour.
“Do I have that wrong or was he laying a groundwork bc he saw the writing on the wall?”
AFAIK, you are never wrong, but my understanding was that, Powell and Tommy Thompson, those types,
who didn’t chug the kool-aid fast enoughhad a choice, resign gracefully or be fired along with an anonymous releasevia Jim VandeHei or someone like himof whatever dirt Rover had on them.Very good to see you back on a thread. You have been on my mind a lot since the vote on torture and retroactive pardons. I hope you have seen imm’s comments about that. FWIW, Jesus’ General basically took his site down for a day, put up a big obiturary notice.
me to me @
18
Not Bush…The corporation. Loyalty to the system, and to be seen being loyal, is paramount for top-slot career military at all costs.
That’s why Larry Wilkerson came out with the hatchet.
My Lai, for a start…Powell was damage control officer on that.
DepSec advisor to Weinberger during Iran-Contra…Told some ‘fibs’ at the Walsh hearings, may have shifted the missiles sold from Army to CIA control.
Pushed Bush 41 on Panama…Closed Noriega’s big mouth before he could spill the narco-beans.
And a piece of Gulf War 1…Bulldozers. Trenches. Iraqi soldiers. And, again, damage control after the ‘highway of death‘.
Think that’s enough?
;>)
CNN Carol Lin says Foley is sure to be the No. 1 topic on the Sunday talking head shows.
GrandmaJ @
148
Amy is doing just fine, don’t you worry about her.
Kennedy’s ads are unintelligible claptrap. He’s going nowhere.
CNN is about to talk about Foley some more. The beat goes on…
just got back from a cursory tour of Right Blogistan – nada, zip, nuttin’ – including Dredge (and say dude, isn’t this your kind of story ?!?!?) there was only one mention – @ Freeperville and it was Libermanned (5th story down) –
they were all getting lubed up for some Atta video – director’s cut
You have to think that John Stewart and Stephen Colbert are just about delerious at this point.
neurophius @ 164
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKnfFPNIi-s
CNN Carol Lin: is it possible that Foley also broke the law? Interviewing a former U.S. attorney…he says it’s quite possible…
http://americablog.blogspot.co…..aders.html
Dissection of NYT article tomorrow.
So, did Foley commit a crime?
Carol Lin – “Why didn’t somebody just call the police?”
first good question
CNN: why didn’t somebody call the police?
Former U.S. Attorney: that’s a good question.
CNN: big question is who knew what, when?
Former: others likely implicated, but not likely to be charged.
ccmask @ 168
Did *Hastert*?
CNN: do you think this is the behavior of a sexual predator?
Atty: Depends on what evidence they find. Usually, what you start out with is just the tip of the iceberg.
Valley Girl @ 169
Youch!
1. Rep. Chris Shays (R-CT) says any House GOP leader who knew about Foley and didn’t act should step down.
Representative Christopher Shays, Republican of Connecticut, said any leader who had been aware of Mr. Foley’s behavior and failed to take action should step down. “If they knew or should have known the extent of this problem, they should not serve in leadership,” Mr. Shays said.
If it dominates the Sunday morning talking heads, as I think it will, that gives the story “legs” for the next week.
I hope someone calls out Joezoe on this. He reprimanded Clinton, will he just stay silent wrt Hastert and Boehner and the rest of the GOP who knew? With all the publicity about Roman Catholic Bishops who, as supervisors, routinely enabled the identical kind of behavior, it’s a little tough for them to plead ignorance.
this is tasty and yummy
http://rollcall.com/issues/1_1…..263-1.html
solicitation of sex over a phone (IM) is a crime. So is the attempt to get child pornography (the pictures). My guess? — a quick search of Foley’s computer would be enough for a long sentence in Federal or Florida prisons.
Cozumel @ 175
Is Shays fighting for his political life?
John Aravosis just posted on AMERICAblog that in tomorrow’s New York Times article that CREW sent copies of the e-mails in question to the FBI 3 months ago. He suggests that the Justice Dept. is following the lead of the House Republicans regarding investigating this issue.
This is echoing throughout the halls of power tonight. The good news is that this will keep them all focused on damage control. The better news is that if any reporter or pundit starts hitting them with this monstrosity and then throws in the torture/revocation of habeus corpus stuff that they will start to sound befuddled and confused.
The GOP are pros at staying on message. What they are incredibly lousy at is juggling more than one ball at a time, especially when it’s of this magnitude. I so hope this is the beginning of a domino effect where their hubris finally receives it’s comeuppance….
CreepingTruth @ 142
That’s a killer ad.
neurophius @ 170
nothing to see here, just move along -
don’t stare at our rulers, it isn’t polite.
ccmask- was that snark? see earlier, if not.
shooogarp @ 127
As bad as this scandal is, I am concerned that what is not getting discussed is Iraq, the Woodward book, Bush’s failed presidency, etc. I think Rove would rather have the discussion be anything but Iraq in the next five weeks (hence all the stalling on the Iraq NIE). Clearly his strategy is to have us running around hopping mad about one thing or another the past three weeks.
Who leaked the story? It wasn’t the Dems – they knew nothing about it.
I’m probably just paranoid but it concerns me when this is the focus of discussion on the Sunday talk shows.
John Casper @ 174
There really is absolutely *no* reason for Joe not to use this to score some cheap morality grandstanding points. If he doesn’t, it’s just further proof of how utterly beholden he is to the Republican party, more so than to his own (former) party.
When you get to this level of criminality it does seem that expecting accountablity denies reality.
dab from CT @ 184
Are you sure Rove really wants to hear all this discussion about the Republican Congressional Child Sex Scandal?
No, not there! They’ll never read it! You think these guys can look themselve sin the mirror? Without it breaking? No, the tatoo should be written upside down, just below their navel. For Hastert, it should be in extra wide, block letters.
Cozumel @
175
Yadda yadda. Heard this from ClusterFuck re: Plame.
I wonder if Jeb will run on Foley’s ballot?
ccmask @ 188
is that possible!?!?!?!
Priscilla, Queen of the Beach @ 180
I haven’t seen anything yet myself that goes beyond creepy. The FBI investigates crimes. Just sayin’
kirk murphy @ 135
On “can’t happen” I just meant that the kid cannot be swiftboated in the standard way, i.e. by suggesting that it was he who was at fault and had in some way “come on” to Foley. If you are a minor, you are in essence blameless in this type of situation. So they can “swift” him for purposes of public opinion (except the IMs are pretty revealing and they are sure to get grocery store play in the Phili Inquirer etc). But legally it is a diff matter. Does this help?
Cozumel @ 192
Then check out Raw Story or Huffington for the IMs.
dab from CT @ 183
dab- cynic reporting here. If this contributes to a Dem victory in Nov., I’ll take it. After all, people are really tired of hearing about Iraq. BUT… a sex scandal? Ooooh- that perks every one up in the great ol US of A. And, BTW, although I am not totally dismissive of various “conspiracy theories”, I think this is just a case of “shit happens!”
this is also excellent
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..265_2.html
I went to the ABC news site out of curiosity about how they got hold of the emails to Mark Foley. The reporter on the story was Brian Ross. I didn’t fine the answer to my question, but while I was there, I noticed the comments to his first story. Here are just a few, typical of the majority:
There were a few more rational comments, but this kind of stuff was the rule. I wonder what the people who posted these messages think now?
Richmond @ 191
That’s pretty much the point. Swiftboating does not have a legal component (other than defense), because it is false by definition.
Balrog @ 194
No solicitation. Like I said, creepy, which isn’t illegal.
What is the relevance of reporting the gender of the page?
When it comes to the IMs, it would be pretty hard to work around. And not mentioning the gender seems a lot stranger than mentioning it.
Trolls are weird.
Hit Rethugs hard and long on this issue (Family Values, Republicans protecting Us from Them, Rightwing Theocratic Hypocrisy…etc, etc.etc).
Take out every Republican possible come November.
Democratic control of Congress in January means we can focus on Bush from then until Jan 2009.
RESTORE AMERICA NOW!
Mickey @ 195
These are the same people that still get hard reading the Starr Report.
snippets:
Foley recalled earlier this month that “I was in my mid-twenties” when Adam Walsh, 10, was kidnapped from his home in a nearby Florida community, assaulted, and killed in 1981, a crime that attracted national attention. “I remember that the case startled me. . . . It described the end of innocence for South Florida.”
–
In 1998, he sponsored legislation allowing the Boy Scouts and other volunteer groups to get access to an FBI criminal database so they could weed out child predators. In 2003, he pressed Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) to investigate a nudist camp for teenagers, noting that “I have been fighting for years to eliminate both child pornography and so-called exploitive child modeling Web sites.”
–
During the congressional debate in 1998 over President Bill Clinton’s affair with a White House intern, Foley called Clinton’s actions vile and told the St. Petersburg Times that “it’s more sad than anything else, to see someone with such potential throw it all down the drain because of a sexual addiction.”
–
At a White House Rose Garden ceremony on July 27, President Bush hailed Foley and other House and Senate lawmakers as a “SWAT team for kids.” Bush spoke while signing into law a broad child protection measure that included a Foley-sponsored provision requiring sex offenders to register in every state where they live, work or attend school.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01177.html
dab from CT @ 183
You raise several good points, the best of which is that the GOP, Rove imo, released the story to Disney/ABC on Friday night. I think Rove knew the story was going to break anyway, the FBI and the pages and their families know. Giving it to Disney/ABC, imo was a big favor to them for THE PATH TO 9/11 and future favors Rover will be requesting. Releasing it on Friday night very strongly suggests, they know how dangerous the story is for the GOP at midterms. Friday is the day you release news that you want to die. Also, unlike the intelligence stuff, the GOP didn’t inoculate themselves in top secret hearings that the Democrats couldn’t reveal. Democrats are squeaky clean on Hastert’s and Boehner’s cover-up, that’s the story.
I think your concerns about Iraq are legitimate. IMO, however, this cover-up story is a lot like DeadEye shooting Harry in the face. It’s a very powerful metaphor for the way they govern. It only reinforces Iraq, Katrina, …. Plus, it leverages bottom feeders such as Rita Cosby and Nancy Grace….. That reaches into Bush’s core support, a place we and the media normally can’t get to. The violence in Iraq hasn’t been getting much coverage anyway, this is really really good for us, imo.
dab from CT @ 182
Hi DebCT -
I very much respect your wisdom and political acumen (nope, not blowing smoke – I moved out of LA three years ago)>
Nevertheless, I think the GOP Congressional Child Sex Scandal has a more immediate resonance than would discussions about the NIE.
(I hope I’m not comment whoring, but I’m a very slow and clumsy typist.) Here’s a tendril from another thread with my addled thoughts on this:
__________________________________
” …. in turns of the malfeasance of the GOP Congressional leadership, I couldn’t agree more.
I fear that sober questions – fact based questions – of prudent and competent governance do not decide elections or voters.
(Even the DNC seems to agree – if competency were the only issue, why not just paper the nation with “Iraq/Katrina” fliers?)
Unfortunately, the goopers and their complicit media aren’t winning elections on logic. They are winning by tying their opponents to viscerally repulsive memes. The disgust and contempt the GOP shackle to their opponents beats the cerebral appeals, every time.
“Child sex scandal” or “child sex abuse” sure seem to jump out of the IM’s (no pun intended or desired)….I’m hoping they’ll jump out of voters’ psyches when they hear “GOP Congress”.
Emotionally manipulative? Yes.
Yes. I want to win. I want to see the Republic restored.
Of course, I won’t and don’t want to do that at the expense of those victimized by the GOP’s child sex abuse. Finding the right words may not be easy, but I think it will be worth it….. “
Eli @ 198
Cozumel @ 192
Cozumel, I know — I’d really like to know what it was exactly that CREW submitted to the FBI. Another fascinating tidbit I came acros on TPM: In Hastert’s statement released tonight, he said that they have created an 800 number for any other pages to report incidents, implying that this is much bigger than we know at this point. Seems like it’s just the tip of the iceberg at this point.
Cozumel @ 199
People get busted every day for possesion of child porn and there is no solicitation involved. Guess since I don’t know the specific laws I’ll have to back off, however.
Hitting the sack!
I do have to wonder who is going to be dealing with the 1-800 calls, however…
Wait a minute, if the FBI knew about this 3 months ago, perhaps they’ve already been investigating. Which would be good, because I’m pretty sure by now Foley’s hard drive has been replaced.
Richmond @ 191
thanks, yes! and now I understand. Again, without snark, I hope you are right regarding the pages’ immunity (as we’re describing it here). I so want that to be true – for them and us!
TheOtherWA @ 211
Yeah, years of wanking it while chatting with young boys wore it out.
Bedtime for Balrogs. Night all.
mmmm…… the blame game… my favorite….
Valley Girl @ 209
Foley will set up a company in which he will be a silent partner, which will get earmarks from Hastert to contract the service….
Balrog @ 211
I got the impression that Foley’s drive was always hard.
immanentize @ 177
Coz, you aren’t buying this, the minors angle?
It’s also a “workplace” issue. Hastert and Boehner would have understood that Foley was a “supervisor” to any page he “contacted.” They piss him off, they might not be pages much longer??? Just my two cents, appreciate you, however, bringing us back to the facts.
Balrog @ 212
is it ok to ask how balrogs handle the whole flame resistant mattress thing?
if this isn’t ok, i’d be grateful to be spared incineration.
love and whips…
Jane — your update above is to the New York Times, not the LA Times.
Any you’re right; this is not going away. Just ask the Catholic bishops in Boston, etc. The public has been as angry about the coverup as the original incidents.
As Christy said earlier, at the very least it is sexual harrassment, minor or not.
Oh, one last thing. Michigan beat Minnesota 28-14 to reclaim the Little Brown Jug. Congratulations and Balrog has donated $20 to ActBlue in the names of TwistedMartini and OddBall. You are worthy foe. But be prepared for the Twins to beat the Tigers should they meet. Double or nothing?
Cheers.
People get busted every day for possesion of child porn and there is no solicitation involved. Guess since I don’t know the specific laws I’ll have to back off, however.
You have to have probable cause that a crime was commited to get a judge to sign a search warrant. Yada yada…
Jebuss. Hello? FISA? The Detention legislation we’ve been talking about?
kirk murphy @ 219
Duh.. Waterbeds.
scarecrow @ 218
Are there any indignant quotes of outrage from Republicans about the Catholic priests’ molestations and the coverups thereof?
This didn’t break on Friday, it was Thursday ABC news reported the emails.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl…..the_s.html
There are several pages involved in this.
hi John Casper -
thanks for your kind response earlier this evening..didn’t see it until much later….
thanks again!
I posted something about this on my blog and concluded with this chilling observation:
His parents apparently wanted this hushed up, simply because if it came out, they knew what kind of shit-storm the Republicans would hurl at them, probably because they were told what would happen.
kirk – you may just be right. It’s clear they are attempting to isolate the scandal to the sketchy behavior of one Congressman – but the fact that the leadership did nothing makes this a different story.
I just have a sense of uneasiness about this – it’s just too easy. Maybe I’m looking a gift horse in the mouth. I keep thinking – shiny, gold object over there…
It’s Saturday night, it’s a sex scandal thread, and I had to go and mention hard drives. What did I expect? ;)
My perpective just changed on this whole issue. This is an editor’s comment on the St. Petersburg Times website. (Sorry if it’s too long but it sheds new light here). Apparently these e-mails were released LAST NOVEMBER but the kid wouldn’t come forward so they sat on the story. It’s the more explicit e-mail/IM exhange that finally got the story to break, it seems now. This pot has been boiling for almost a year in the background of the media. Hmmm….
From the St. Pete Times online:
September 30, 2006
A Note From the Editors
There still seems to be some confusion about the order of events related to our coverage of Rep. Mark Foley and his email exchanges with teenagers he met through the congressional page program. Let me try to clear this up.
In November of last year, we were given copies of an email exchange Foley had with a former page from Louisiana. Other news organizations later got them,too. The conversation in those emails was friendly chit-chat. Foley asked the boy about how he had come through Hurricane Katrina and about the boy’s upcoming birthday. In one of those emails, Foley casually asked the teen to send him a “pic” of himself. Also among those emails was the page’s exchange with a congressional staffer in the office of Rep. Alexander, who had been the teen’s sponsor in the page program. The teen shared his exchange he’d had with Foley and asked the staffer if she thought Foley was out of bounds.
There was nothing overtly sexual in the emails, but we assigned two reporters to find out more. We found the Louisiana page and talked with him. He told us Foley’s request for a photo made him uncomfortable so he never responded, but both he and his parents made clear we could not use his name if we wrote a story. We also found another page who was willing to go on the record, but his experience with Foley was different. He said Foley did send a few emails but never said anything in them that he found inappropriate. We tried to find other pages but had no luck. We spoke with Rep. Alexander, who said the boy’s family didn’t want it pursued, and Foley, who insisted he was merely trying to be friendly and never wanted to make the page uncomfortable.
So, what we had was a set of emails between Foley and a teenager, who wouldn’t go on the record about how those emails made him feel. As we said in today’s paper, our policy is that we don’t make accusations against people using unnamed sources. And given the seriousness of what would be implied in a story, it was critical that we have complete confidence in our sourcing. After much discussion among top editors at the paper, we concluded that the information we had on Foley last November didn’t meet our standard for publication. Evidently, other news organizations felt the same way.
Since that time, we revisited the question more than once, but never learned anything that changed our position. The Louisiana boy’s emails broke into the open last weekend, when a blogger got copies and posted them online. Later that week, on Thursday, a news blog at the website of ABC News followed suit, with the addition of one new fact: Foley’s Democratic opponent, Tim Mahoney, was on the record about the Louisiana boy’s emails and was calling for an investigation. That’s when we wrote our first story, for Friday’s papers.
After ABC News broke the story on its website, someone contacted ABC and provided a detailed email exchange between Foley and at least one other page that was far different from what we had seen before. This was overtly sexual, not something Foley could dismiss as misinterpreted friendliness. That’s what drove Foley to resign on Friday.
I hope this helps clarify a bit about what we knew and when we knew it.
Scott Montgomery
Government & Politics Editor
Posted by Times Editor at 11:37:22 AM on September 30, 2006 | Permalink | Comments (130)
Better to fight the predators in the chat rooms of our pages than in the streets of our cities.
Eli @ 224
I doubt it. Jason Berry’s “Lead Not into Temptation” (dated and not well written/edited, although the content is excellent) chronicles just the opposite. Time and time again, all over the nation, Roman Catholic Bishops and Cardinals would “reach out” to political leaders and the media to extinguish the truth at every step.
Thanks Kirk.
John Casper @ 218
Hey, John,
IANAL but I think the workplace issue has merit possibly as a civil issue, not criminal based on what we know so far.
John Casper @ 233
What I expected. Would have been nice, but I guess we’ll just have to settle for their moral indignation over Clinton-Lewinsky.
Clearly the decline of morals in this country is exclusively the fault of Bill Clinton.
Clinton had 8 years to deal with Foley and did nothing. The Taliban offered to hand Foley over and Clinton refused. And yet you moonbats sit here trying to blame the whole thing on Republicans. Have you no shame?
Eli @
225
That’s a really good question. The priest scandal went on for about a year; first the disclosures, then more disclosures, then the dislosures that one or more bishops knew and hushed it up and/or transferred those priests who have been accused. This was about priests and kids and bishops, not about Dems vs. Republicans, so I don’t recall partisan statements per se. The stories that evoked the most anger were about the coverup, and the fact that the bishop who most people were angry at for not dealing with the problems when they were made known to him was transferred to the Vatican — and a new replacement put in here to (1) try to reassure the parishioners, ((2) resolve the numerous lawsuits, as more and more people came forward to claim they had been abused, some of them years ago, and (3) to figure out how to hold the community together as the faithful left and/or stop contributing. The churck lost tons of contributions, which forced them to close several churches, which angered the parishionhers even more. The wounds are not healed yet. Child abuse is an extremely emotional issue for most people (and why not?) and the public does not forgive easily.
I should also say I am not Catholic, and only followed the stories from time to time, but there was a period in which it was front page news in the Boston Globe a couple or more times a week. And similar things were apparently going on in several (many?) cities. It was widespread, so the church hierarchy lost a lot of credibility.
Exile on Ericsson St. @ 237
Hell, Clinton let Gingrich go. Had him trapped in Georgetown, and let him fucking go.
http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz…..m_the.html
Here’s the link to the St. Pete Times edit. comments above. Go there to read the comments in response. Interesting.
~~Re Scott Montgomery’s editor’s note: The Times never names minors victimized in possible sex crimes. Therefore, Mr. Montgomery’s excuse for not publishing this story last year is false. As your government and politics editor admits, the parents didn’t say the story wasn’t true or ask that you not publish it – they merely asked you not to specifically identify their son if you did. The “Times” – by its inaction and lack of journalistic skill, follow through and courage – is as guilty, or inept, as House leadership in the institutional and possibly criminal coverup of Mr. Foley’s commonly known-on-the-Hill behavior.~~~
I wonder what the House Majority Leader has been up to… after all, his name is BONER…
Valley Girl @ 241
Thanks Valley Girl! I was so excited (and sleepy) I forgot to include the link. Seems like we’ve been reading the same pages all evening girlfriend! Keep up the good work!
I guess everyone’s gone to bed, like sensible people here on the East Coast do, or they are reading the late night post (I’m jumping back and forth). But this quote from the editor’s explanantion in the St. Pete Times I quoted above just haunts me:
“Also among those emails was the page’s exchange with a congressional staffer in the office of Rep. Alexander, who had been the teen’s sponsor in the page program. The teen shared his exchange he’d had with Foley and asked the staffer if she thought Foley was out of bounds.”
If the kid was uncomfortable and then sought guidance from Rep. Alexander’s office and was given the brush off (and this is speculation, I admit — but someone was shopping the story around) then doesn’t this take Christy’s point of sexual harassment to a whole new level? And doesn’t it implicate even more of the CYA republican roaches that are scurrying frantically to release “It wasn’t my fault!” statements? Just wondering in a late-nighte haze here….
And what Foley did was different from Whitewater how exactly, moonbats? When the shoe was on the other foot, you were calling it “overblown” now you’re hooting and hollering like it was another Watergate. I wouldn’t be surprised if this comes back to bite the Democrats in the ass. If there’s one thing the voters like less than a child molester, it’s someone who’s soft on terrorism. When put it that way, you can see why this is a losing issue for the Democrats. Karl Rove will be laughing all the way to larger majorities in both houses.
Robert Paehlke @
9
That is the best thing I have heard since this damn bill passed…wait til they find out that Bush is giving himself and his buddies a defacto pardon…that will frost the cake!
dab from CT @ 227
I’m uneasy too…seems like a shiny gold object to me as well.
I just keep hoping it fell out of their pocketsesess by accident.
They have planned the next (Iran) war as their salvation – endless war requires endless vigilance… at home.
And now – the Army’s General staff openly contemptuous of the DOD’s civilian leadership – Gen Odom calling for impeachement – now they have to speed up the Iran war.
And Rummy’s war plans didn’t drive so well with the calendar he had.
Now Bush has to depend on the Pentagon not to leak the Iran war plans to the bottom of the Persian Gulf…which is where we’ll find a lot of the US fleet if Shrub bombs Iran.
So Bush wants to bomb, and the Navy will take the supersonic shipkiller missles – to the bottom – and the Army will be gaming Stalingrad after the Iraqi Shia cut off land access to seaports.
And the people who will be lining up with the AWOL in wartime “Mission Abandoned” Presdent will be ….
the Grand Ol’ Pederasts’ Congressional Leaders.
Well, the Joint Chiefs couldn’t seem to rememeber their oaths to protect the Constitution when Bush’s goons dragged a woman out of Congress during the State of the Union for the crime of…
wearing a t-shirt with writing on it.
Then I figured the Joint Chiefs just liked pictures. But then the JCS took out after a cartoonist for hurting the troops.
And all that time I thought it was the IED’s. [Goddamn rock concerts. I can’t hear for shit.]
They meant IGD’s – Improvised Graphic Devices.
Anyway, if the Joint Chiefs were scared by one cartoonist, a whole bunch of child-molester supporters will have ‘em running for secure locations.
They’ll have to put up with Cheney, but we’ll get to drop the whole bomb Iran thing.
Which is better than the drop the bomb on Iran thing.
Thanks, Mr. Foley.
(Now turn yourself in: perhaps this will help with sentence mitigation.)
Yeah, where’s Mark Foley right now?
me to me @
18
I wonder if the Pentagon could revoke his pension, especially now that the Dictator has
changed all the rules in the US…Rummy would certainly jump in and help!! Then watch Powell sing…and what a lovely song it would be!!
http://democraticwhip.house.go…..easeID=912
2004:
~Hoyer explained that Alexander “induced” Members into giving to his campaign by maintaining he was a Democrat and intended to remain in the party. Hoyer said he gave to Alexander because he took him at his word.
Alexander quietly switched his party affiliation Aug. 6, just hours before Louisiana’s filing deadline.~
Because Foley was trying to have cyber sex with a minor and Whitewater was a land deal that went bankrupt. People invested money and lost some of it when the development didn’t work out.
You’re comparing apples and toe jam, sweetie. Give it up and play with your X Box until bedtime, OK? There’s no future for you in trolling.
Somewhere, Mary Matalin is applying heavy eyeliner and putting on a huge metal corsage while staring in a mirror and repeating ‘Tim, this is just a tempest in a teapot, this is just a tempest…
ricky @ 252
I love that image!
Because Foley was trying to have cyber sex with a minor and Whitewater was a land deal that went bankrupt. People invested money and lost some of it when the development didn’t work out.
You’re comparing apples and toe jam, sweetie. Give it up and play with your X Box until bedtime, OK? There’s no future for you in trolling.
I was joking. It’s fun to parody Republicans.
Exile on Ericsson St. @ 254
It’s also very difficult.
I am sorry if this has been pointed out already, but I am not sure of the age of the page.
And what is the age of consent in DC and where the boy was? And how is that worked out online?
What if well go around and think of a good Republican talking point for this thing? I’ll start.
I bet that kid has a new book coming out. That’s what this is really all about — book sales.
And how come we never hear about all the pages who weren’t the victims of sexual harrassment?
Pach’s got a great FDL Late Night available upstairs.
shooogarp @
45
Hmmm shooogarp – it may but I gotta report that here on the Monterey peninsula the disgust is so great among the republican base this latest scandal could give new meaning to the term tipping point…..as in throw them out of both houses.
I’ve been thinking about this Foley thing. Who cares if the parents didn’t want the matter pursued? Their anonymnity and that of their son could be maintained. That’s a reasonable request. But it’s not for them to decide that a U.S. Congressman who made sexual gestures toward their underage son who was a page in Congress shouldn’t be thoroughly investigated and/or prosecuted.
I guess you made this point in your “translation,” but they keep bringing up in the news reports. It’s no excuse for anything or anyone…
Eli @
139
See the link on post #226… That’s the IM’s (note that the St. Peters. editor calls them emails, further journalistic accuracy at work, oops) which multiple other pages volunteered once the story broke. And I also don’t know the laws (other than what I understood from Glenn Greenwald’s blog), but if you click on _both_ links at the bottom of their story (that are prefaced with warnings), you’ll see stuff you would not want your 11th-grader talking about with an employer, fer sher. (How is asking the kid to report on his state of arousal not solicitation? because he doesn’t plan a face-to-face meeting? and one of the other pages is saying, don’t go so fast, here…)
Exile on Ericsson St. @
254
I’m sorry! After reading farther upthread and seeing your other posts, that’s clear. Your parody was so well done I fell for it.
Exile on Ericsson St. @
245
bwah ha ha ha, I just laughed beer out my nose! That’s a great troll. If you can’t cruise myspace for 16-year-old boywhores, the terrorists have already won.
Mickey @
261
You learn that in the first month of law school- consent to a crime doesn’t make it legal. For example, imagine for a minute that you tell me it’s OK for me to shoot you in the face. If I do it, the hospital will usually report your injury to the police, and then they’ll come and arrest me when you tell them what happened. Unless you tell them a lie, which makes it a cover-up…
kirk murphy @
247
Ok, be here now. No more stream-of-consciousness posts.
IMHO, it might be wise to keep “that kid” out of our feeble attempts at snark.
watertiger @ 102
I’d like to hold that name in reserve. If justice is properly served, Foley’s cellblock will need a nice snarky moniker.
IMHO, it might be wise to keep “that kid” out of our feeble attempts at snark.
I’d agree were it not for the fact that the right is already smearing him along those lines, talking about how “kids that age know what they’re doing” and the like (that’s a direct quote from Tom Maguire’s comments). It’s worse than you could imagine. The only way to endure the horror of the right is to realize how ridiculous it all is. Sitting around pretending that they’re not doing it is not helpful
And if they are, feel free to attribute that kind of garbage to them so we know our enemy, but let’s not start a contest that makes their job easier. Our mutual friend, Op99, can tell you a great site for that kind of fun, but it ain’t at FDL.
Not a Lawyer, but I followed the Catholic Church Crisis in some detail over about four years — and there is an aspect to Federal and most State Laws that I believe could provide the basis for indictment of the House Leadership.
It is the Mandatory Reporting requirement. These laws specify certain catagories of individuals who are required to report suspicion of sexual abuse to Police, Child Abuse investigators and/or Prosecutors. These include teachers, school administrators, school boards, medical personnel and mental health professionals, social workers, etc. One of the issues under debate in many states in recent years in the wake of the Church Crisis is whether this mandatory reporting requirement should be extended to clergy.
Now — the Page Program is a school, established and funded by congress. The 100 member Senate, and the 435 House members are the “board of education” and the Speaker appoints and the bodies confirm a committee to oversee the school and page program. In this respect, I would argue, they are covered by the Mandatory Reporting requirement — and if they had reason to be suspicious a year ago, they should have picked up the phone and reported. For professionals such as teachers or social workers it is a felony not to report, and it is a license revocation offense.
It makes no difference whether the parents want the case persued — the decision as to whether a crime was committed belongs to the normal court system. Police and prosecutors do the investigation and the fact finding — not the collegues of the perp. We learned in the Catholic cases that pre crisis, the standard way this was handled was that a church lawyer would look at the vulnerability of the family, execute a small payment combined with a very tough confidentiality agreement, and the problem would go away — till the next victim showed up an the Chancellory steps. In fact the first big case in the US was not in Boston, it was in Laffaetta LA. LA was full of problems, and as a result of about fifteen years of tough litigation, LA has fairly decent laws about abuse of minors.
I also believe any pages who were harrassed by Congress persons or staff would have quite a good chance getting damages in Civil Court — and they ought to contact some of the lawyers who have been sueing the church now for 25 years. You see they did report it — they reported it to the Republican Congressional Finance arm — and that is not officially part of Congress or government, in which case it might have immunity, but it is a party entity that enjoyes no immunity. The RNCC apparently advised against doing anything about the perp, and it did not officially report. Moreover, the RNCC has pretty deep pockets. The lawyer doing this that I’ve met is Jeffrey Andersen in St. Paul — he does most of his cases on a contingency basis, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he would not enjoy a target other than Clergy, Bishops and Churches. Anderson is the one with a case in Federal Court against the Vatican that has them very worried. So if someone wants to explore their legal rights, this is where one could begin.
By the way when this thing broke on CNN they were running a crawl indicating that the Los Angles Archdiocese was nearly finished with settlement talks on a raft of cases, and the price looked like about 60 Million Dollars. I laughed my head off. (Many of those cases are Anderson’s).
By the way, one of the best things Anderson did was his suit against the Benedictines at Collegeville Minnesota. He negotiated a very good settlement with the help of Patty Wetterling and her foundation, that brought the religious order around in a very positive way. Yes, they paid damages and pay for mental health for all the victims, but they created a model sexual abuse program as well as a residential monitoring program for the perp’s (Monks with ankle bracelets living in the woods away from young people and children.) It was a matter of telling the truth, and then paying up and dealing with all the residual problems. Anderson and Wetterling made a good team in this instance.
I don’t agree with you there, RGB. I think it’s good to try to think about or talk about what the Republicans will come back with in a way that isn’t disgusting. One of the things that’s good about blogs is that it’s a place where liberals can do that. Before, the Republican attacks seemed to come from nowhere. Now, they often seem predictable.
I really do hope that they don’t smear any of Foley’s victims, though. That’s for sure.
with regard to jane’s great catch of the scrubbed Boehner quote,
( http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..d-perverts )
this new nugget from Roll Call:
http://www.rollcall.com/issues…..263-1.html
Boehner was quoted in the Post as saying he then informed Hastert, who assured him, “we’re taking care of it.” Boehner now denies telling the Post of such a conversation between Hastert and himself, and his aides said on Saturday that he “cannot recall” informing anyone other than Nowakowski, his top aide, of the matter.
As Jane notes, the WaPo reporters “stand by all versions of the story.”
http://allspinzone.com/blog/index.php?itemid=3447
Whatever that means. How can they stand by significantly contradictory versions? We don’t know, they don’t give us any details supporting their stance.
Exile, I bet we’re not that far apart. I’m in complete agreement about using the blogs to help predict the tactics of the enemy. What you started wasn’t so much the problem, as where it very quickly led.
It sounds like we also agree that Foley’s victims need to be left alone…by both sides.
Hi Jane,
It does seem that Neo Con values include 50 year old men writting sexual emails to 16 year old boys.
It does seem that Neo Con “traditional values” include covering up for Mr Foley.
It does seem that Neo Con “family values” include sexual things between 50 year old males and young 16 year old male children.
I’m sure the Christians will find a way to ignore this. Can you imagine these Christian guys & gals response if this was Bill or Hillary ??
Correction Bill C. because Fox NO SPIN ZONE Neo Cons have proven Bill O. can be forgiven.
Notice how Neo Cons like the weak (16 year old Page, or like Bill O. a woman under his $$)
If you believe in God and thus the Devil, where would the most effective place for evil to be, how about hiding in our churches.
Warning: this is long. I’m posting it for people who want to bust Bush on war crimes in spite of his recently passed MCA.
The Final Version of the Military Commissions Act (MCA) of 2006 (S.3930.ENR) is now available. The pdf is here. For the html, search for S.3930.ENR at thomas.loc.gov.
The get-out-of-jail clause for Bush and his “young professionals” is found in Subsection (8)(b):
Section 1004 of the DTA of 2005 explicitly authorizes a variant of the Nuremberg (just-following-orders) defense, called the good-faith defense: “I operated in good-faith on assurances from superiors and/or counsel that my actions were legal.” Specifically, Section 1004 rules that:
But it seems to me that the Administration already has three problems.
The first problem is that any person of ordinary sense and understanding raised in the U.S. knows that torture is unlawful and that “just following orders” doesn’t cut it. And any competent lawyer or even attentive schoolboy knows Senate-ratified treaties are the “supreme law of the land,” and that the the U.S. has not withdrawn from the Geneva Conventions. Good faith reliance on advice of sophomoric accomplices is not a factor for persons of ordinary sense and understanding.
The second problem is that from the beginning there wasn’t “good faith” from Bush and Gonzales. On January 22, 2002, then White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales advised the President that a presidential “determination” that the Geneva Conventions do not apply in Afghanistan “substantially reduces the threat of domestic criminal prosecution under the War Crimes Act (18 U.S.C. 2441).”
Accordingly, on February 7, 2002, Bush issued a memorandum, HUMANE TREATMENT OF TALIBAN AND AL QAEDA DETAINEES:
The plan was that, if push came to shove, everybody in the Executive Branch would blame their boss up to the President, who would blame the White House Counsel, who would plead that he was simply offering his best professional opinion. Everybody’s faith would have been good, so everybody would walk. In other words, the Hamdan decision having upset Plan A, Bush and Gonzales are now falling back on Plan B, the good-faith defense that John McCain graciously cached for them in the DTA. But both plans are too transparent. This nonsense simply doesn’t cut it among adults.
The third problem is that the Charter of the International Military Tribunal, London, 8 August 1945 (aka, the Nuremberg Charter or the London Charter), of which the United States was a signatory and the prime mover, set forth a number of principles known as the “Nuremberg Principles,” among them:
So far, I’ve haven’t found the Nurmberg Principles as part of any Senate-ratified treaty. Otherwise, they would be “supreme law of the land,” by Article VI of the U.S. Constitution, and would therefore trump Bush’s get-out-of-jail card.
The Geneva conventions, by contrast, are Senate ratified, and Article 129 states:
I see no way that the U.S. can fulfill its treaty obligations under Article 129 and permit the DTA’s Protection-of-Personnel clause to stand.
Hello folks,
I see confusion about Mr C Powell — let me help you all.
Powell is part of it, he is not stupid, he was not tricked. He could have asked simple questions, like I want to talk to these sources or why are we relying on info from the brits on yellow cake or why does V.P. (woops CIA gals husband) say its clearly a forgery??
My proof, if he was not part of it, he would have resigned when it was clear to everyone in the world (less 35% of US) that it was all made up.
If you stay loyal to lairs, then you are a lair also.
>F I T Z ! ! !
if Fitz gets the case, the page will be as old as Denny Hastert by the time anyone gets indicted
I wonder how many of the pro-torture, rubber stamp congressmen also would like to be more than just “friendly” to 16 year old male pages?
My guess is that there may be more than just Foley.
Why do these pedophile-enabling Republicans in the House keep reminding me of the pedophile-enabling Catholic Church leadership?
The cover-up? The lies?
I know the House Republicans consider themselves to be the moral equals to the Catholic Church leaders, righteous, God-fearing, Jesus-loving conservatives, but I now realize that this moral equivalency is on the low end, not the high end.
Hmmm, I wonder if the righteous, God-fearing, Jesus-loving Alberto Gonzales, the Republican Pope of the Justice Department, was informed about Rep. Foley hitting on the underage pages?
Odds are he was informed (especially since the RNCC was), which means he’s part of the cover-up, too.
Of course the cover up is a CYA thing,but could it also be that keeping this hushed was used or would have been used to keep Foley in line at some future point?
I put nothing past the GOP at all.
What disgusts me is how the remaining loyalists to this party of criminals is so quick to condemn a child,as seen in the comments quoted above-responses to newspaper articles/press coverage.
If this was their child would their response be any different?
My son(13)wants internet access in his room. This crap is why it ain’t happening. Call me overprotective,but I see his friends text messaging,online with no parental oversight,cell phones,etc,and I have to wonder how many of these kids are going through similar experiences to these pages and no one in their lives has a clue.
And again,I have to ask,why is our culture/society churning out so many sexual preditors? WTF is going on?
watertiger @ 102
Could we try to make sure that we don’t draw a direct line between Foley and homosexuals? The La Cage Aux Folles were openly and joyously gay, and in love with their adult (aging) life partners.
The news is also full of reports of sick heterosexuals doing bad things, but we don’t go back to couching it as tied to heterosexuality.
President Signs H.R. 4472, the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006
July 27, 2006
This is White House link to transcript and video of the bill’s signing.
I was actually moved and impressed by Bush’s speech here. I hope that the ultimate irony comes to pass, and that Foley gets charged and convicted by the law he helped pass.
Here’s the strange thing: Maybe I’m just not seeing, but it appears to me Mark Foley is not in attendence among the dozen plus politicians crowding around Bush for face time during this speech and bill signing. Text searching “foley” in the transcript also fails.
Isn’t it beyond just a little bit strange that the major Congressional sponsor of the House version of the bill wouldn’t be included at it’s signing?
An Angry Old Broad @
281
It’s seemed to me that blackmail is the stock-in-trade of ‘Political Leadership’
in Washington, DC.
There have been far too many unbelievable bills passed. Just look at the information about the Dems who voted FOR the detainee bill (on This Modern World). How else would it make sense that they keep voting to give away their own power, and the entrenched Dems ALWAYS pull their punches?
The Toledo Blade ran a front-page story yesterday on Woodward’s book. The main point was Andrew Card, Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Stephen Hadley, and Michael Gershon were all supporting the dismissal of Donald Rumsfeld. Once right after the ‘04 election and around Thanksgiving ‘05.
Rumsfeld must have a damn good insurance policy to withstand that kind of pressure. I’d be lying if I said I believed George personally decided to keep him around. Maybe he had a blanket pardon signed back in ‘01 along with Karl Rove. There has to be a reason the people in the Gorilla position would want to keep him around. Surely nothing positive, I imagine.
It sounds like we also agree that Foley’s victims need to be left alone…by both sides.
I agree completely. I have a feeling the Republicans won’t. I also think that there may be one or two of his victims that want to come forward to talk about it and that’s when I’m afraid the smearing will start. I hope I’m wrong (about the smearing, whoever wants to can come forward, that’s their business).
To be a bit more optimistic, maybe the Republicans will just give in on this, throw one of their leaders to the lions and then make some attempt to act decent about the whole thing. I won’t hold my breath.
windje @ 127
Saw someone above posting about the inconsitencies of Shimkus’ accounts about how he says he didn’t share the emails with the House (Page Committee?) Clerk and how they reviewed the matter (Shimkus and the Clerk) with Foley in April (sorry–couldn’t find source and need to get on a plane soon).
Not sure it’s a good lead, but if it helps a reporter they should Google the clerk (don’t have his name), because someone yesterday claimed he *resigned* as Clerk in early November of 2005….sounds like a coincidence of the first order to me.
This does look worth following up (”Wood-stein?!”)
Thanks to John Yang at ABCNEWS–here’s the name of the House Clerk that was in on the discussions with Rep. Shimkus and former-Rep-Foley:
The matter was referred to then-House Clerk Jeff Trandahl, whose office is in charge of the page program, and Rep. John Shimkus (R-Ill.), head of the House Page Board, which oversees it, according to a statement from Hastert’s office.
Shimkus and Trandahl met with Foley and instructed him to stop communicating with the teenager. But it’s not clear whether there was any attempt made to find out if Foley had similar contact with any other former pages.
Maybe this has already appeared, but Jeff Trandahl is still in DC–looks like timing of his departure was earlier than the ‘discussions’ with Shimkus and Foley, though:
Washington, D.C. – September 30, 2005 – The National Fish and Wildlife Foundation announced today that Jeff Trandahl has accepted the position of Executive Director at the Foundation. Trandahl currently serves as Clerk of the US House of Representatives. He plans to assume his new position in November.
If they get the DoJ to investigate, they can say, “I can’t comment on an ongoing investigation” and it fades, a little.