Comments on: Late Nite FDL: Progressives Are Values Voters http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/ Firedoglake weblog Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:49:39 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Caroline Usher http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-320488 Caroline Usher Mon, 02 Oct 2006 19:12:07 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-320488 <p>I agree that less is more, fewer syllables are better, etc. I also think the Values or Principles need to be embedded in a context. Abtractions = hard to remember; stories & examples = easy to remember. Here’s my take.</p> <p>Our narrative begins with Tom Paine, Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. It runs from the Declaration of Independence through the Gettysburg Address and Lincoln’s Second Inaugural, to Roosevelt’s Four Freedoms, to Kennedys “ask not what your country can do for you,” to Martin Luther King’s Letter from Birmingham Jail. </p> <p>Our core principle is, “Democrats welcome people of many differing views who share the belief that it is the role of government to serve and protect the people.” </p> <p>Therefore, we support:<br /> free and fair elections<br /> campaign finance reform<br /> Roosevelt’s Four Freedoms: freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom from want, freedom from fear<br /> the right to live one’s private life without government interference - live and let live - tolerance.</p> <p>Thence flow civil rights, separation of church and state, worker’s rights, the right to a fair trial, a social safety net for the needy, protection of the people’s health by environmental regulation, preservation of national parks for the people’s recreation, and other traditional Democratic values. </p> <p> The Republicans are now the party of Big business, wasteful spending, corruption, self-dealing, government-imposed morality. We can turn their abandoned ideals of limited government and fiscal discipline against them. </p> <p>We are the party of the people. Democrats can be the party of fiscal discipline, prudence, open government, balance of powers, responsibility–all in the service of the people. Our theme song: Copland’s “Fanfare for the Common Man.”</p> <p>I think that Bush voters are mostly sincere Christians who would go out of their way to help a neighbor, who believe in charity towards the needy. They are the kind of people who would stop to help you change your tire and who put together presents for needy families at Christmas. They find many social changes troubling, they like security and certainty, and the Republicans have fed them a worldview that appeals to their fears and self-righteousness.</p> <p>We can use biblical language to talk about helping the poor rather than the rich, the widow and orphan rather than the fat cat, forgiveness rather than punishment, justice for all. </p> <p>We can revive the words of the founders. We have allowed the far right to take biblical and enlightenment language and twist it into a new meaning. We need to take it back and use it as Lincoln used it. And we need to start talking about common sense. Horse sense. Pragmatism. Can-do. The American way. Working together to solve problems. Barn-raisings. Town meetings. Neighborliness, not passing moral judgment on others. The values of a proud, courageous, free people.</p> I agree that less is more, fewer syllables are better, etc. I also think the Values or Principles need to be embedded in a context. Abtractions = hard to remember; stories & examples = easy to remember. Here’s my take.

Our narrative begins with Tom Paine, Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. It runs from the Declaration of Independence through the Gettysburg Address and Lincoln’s Second Inaugural, to Roosevelt’s Four Freedoms, to Kennedys “ask not what your country can do for you,” to Martin Luther King’s Letter from Birmingham Jail.

Our core principle is, “Democrats welcome people of many differing views who share the belief that it is the role of government to serve and protect the people.”

Therefore, we support:
free and fair elections
campaign finance reform
Roosevelt’s Four Freedoms: freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom from want, freedom from fear
the right to live one’s private life without government interference – live and let live – tolerance.

Thence flow civil rights, separation of church and state, worker’s rights, the right to a fair trial, a social safety net for the needy, protection of the people’s health by environmental regulation, preservation of national parks for the people’s recreation, and other traditional Democratic values.

The Republicans are now the party of Big business, wasteful spending, corruption, self-dealing, government-imposed morality. We can turn their abandoned ideals of limited government and fiscal discipline against them.

We are the party of the people. Democrats can be the party of fiscal discipline, prudence, open government, balance of powers, responsibility–all in the service of the people. Our theme song: Copland’s “Fanfare for the Common Man.”

I think that Bush voters are mostly sincere Christians who would go out of their way to help a neighbor, who believe in charity towards the needy. They are the kind of people who would stop to help you change your tire and who put together presents for needy families at Christmas. They find many social changes troubling, they like security and certainty, and the Republicans have fed them a worldview that appeals to their fears and self-righteousness.

We can use biblical language to talk about helping the poor rather than the rich, the widow and orphan rather than the fat cat, forgiveness rather than punishment, justice for all.

We can revive the words of the founders. We have allowed the far right to take biblical and enlightenment language and twist it into a new meaning. We need to take it back and use it as Lincoln used it. And we need to start talking about common sense. Horse sense. Pragmatism. Can-do. The American way. Working together to solve problems. Barn-raisings. Town meetings. Neighborliness, not passing moral judgment on others. The values of a proud, courageous, free people.

]]> By: Rocket Scientist http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-320218 Rocket Scientist Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:37:54 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-320218 <p>Great post! Beautifully articulated! </p> <p>I would like to call attention to your use of “man-made global climate crisis” as well as “global climate crisis” as opposed to “global warming”. The fact that at this time the average temperature of the earth is increasing is NOT the more important issue. The fact that earth is becoming more enshrouded by man made gases causes the earth to have a more uniform distribution of temperature - that is the problem. Some parts of the earth will become cooler while at the same time other parts will become warmer. Granted, the poles melting and high tides becoming higher are severe problems. Just as important IMHO is that temperature conditions over the entire planet, as well as the increased volatility in weather, will cause a host of other problems affecting agriculture, living conditions, etc. etc. etc.</p> <p>Even Al Gore often uses the term “global warming”. If those who do not believe we have a crisis only look at the small temperature increase, they will never realize that we do indeed have a crisis on hand. It may be wishful thinking, but I believe that use of the term “global climate crisis” and a greater focus on the man-made impact on the ozone layer may have a better chance of capturing the necessary attention than using the more commonly used term “global warming”.</p> Great post! Beautifully articulated!

I would like to call attention to your use of “man-made global climate crisis” as well as “global climate crisis” as opposed to “global warming”. The fact that at this time the average temperature of the earth is increasing is NOT the more important issue. The fact that earth is becoming more enshrouded by man made gases causes the earth to have a more uniform distribution of temperature – that is the problem. Some parts of the earth will become cooler while at the same time other parts will become warmer. Granted, the poles melting and high tides becoming higher are severe problems. Just as important IMHO is that temperature conditions over the entire planet, as well as the increased volatility in weather, will cause a host of other problems affecting agriculture, living conditions, etc. etc. etc.

Even Al Gore often uses the term “global warming”. If those who do not believe we have a crisis only look at the small temperature increase, they will never realize that we do indeed have a crisis on hand. It may be wishful thinking, but I believe that use of the term “global climate crisis” and a greater focus on the man-made impact on the ozone layer may have a better chance of capturing the necessary attention than using the more commonly used term “global warming”.

]]> By: Terry Karney http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-319560 Terry Karney Mon, 02 Oct 2006 02:54:32 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-319560 <p><a href="http://pecunium.livejournal.com/183316.html">This</a> is what I had to say about my values, earlier this year.</p> This is what I had to say about my values, earlier this year.

]]> By: Goblin Girl http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-319069 Goblin Girl Sun, 01 Oct 2006 20:33:45 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-319069 <p>I just threw away my copy of the Marquis de Sade’s The 120 Days of Sodom. The GOP has surpassed it exponentially….</p> I just threw away my copy of the Marquis de Sade’s The 120 Days of Sodom. The GOP has surpassed it exponentially….

]]> By: sandra y http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-318820 sandra y Sun, 01 Oct 2006 17:08:15 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-318820 <p>I am so happy about this.<br /> I have been in a continual moral rage at this administration for years, and I am certainly not alone. –At their squandering billions of dollars of public money on failed projects and stuffing the pockets of cronies, for one thing. I think it has been the primary act of the administration, as a matter of fact, to loot the treasury for private gain on all failed projects (Name one that succeeded!) It is public tax money, or borrowed money that they intend the taxpayers to repay in the next generation! This is a moral outrage among many others: Gutting the Constitution! Arresting and holding people forever without due process! As I grew up, I was taught that the REASON we are America is that We do not do these horrible things to people — we are a government of laws, not men. What will they teach people now? They have to rewrite all of the history books! We arrest people now without due process and hold them forever. Torture is permitted. It is no longer America if we do these things. What is America now? An oligarchy where the rich steal from the poor and gut our laws, our environment, and our Constitution.<br /> I have been in a moral rage against the Republicans for years– they steal elections, they bomb and murder innocent people, they hire mercenaries, they destroy the environment, they take payoffs from the drug companies, the oil companies, the chemical companies. They have become a ruling oligarchy. They control the Press– all things we always considered un-American.<br /> And still these digbats hold some sort of script as a moral voice — Why? Because they oppose abortion. Listen to this –<br /> if we give them the abortion issue, Can we have our democracy back? Can we restore the American Constitution? Can we protect people from the drug companys’ corruption — with no oversight they are allowed to sell people drugs that will kill them in order to increase their profits?<br /> The Republicans allow the oil and chemical companies to dictate how many policies? War and peace among them. The destruction of our air, our water, our earth goes on. Are we not in a moral rage about that? And to threaten to gut social security– so the rich cronies can get richer–<br /> How do you like that: All that money lying there belonging to poor people, and middle class people — and the rich want to take it for themselves in profits — because for some reason they are not rich enough yet!<br /> See you got me started about my values rage — and I could go on all day.<br /> The Democrats have ALWAYS been about values.<br /> They have somehow been coerced and beaten into silence by the success of the Rove-right-wing media-control — and their own ties to the corporations — which we see in the great stuff that has been published lately about the “Democratic” PR-money groups in DC, the Consultant class, and the DLC. They have made their own pacts with the oligarchy and sold out the store.<br /> I love your taking back the values issue for the Democrats. I appreciate that you have to rebuild it from scratch. Remember the Democrats were always the party of justice and social justice. And that’s why we are so angry that it has been eviscerated and our country has been stolen from us by people who want –What, exactly? Because what is left looks to me like a big value-less void.<br /> They have left it to us to re-create America.</p> I am so happy about this.
I have been in a continual moral rage at this administration for years, and I am certainly not alone. –At their squandering billions of dollars of public money on failed projects and stuffing the pockets of cronies, for one thing. I think it has been the primary act of the administration, as a matter of fact, to loot the treasury for private gain on all failed projects (Name one that succeeded!) It is public tax money, or borrowed money that they intend the taxpayers to repay in the next generation! This is a moral outrage among many others: Gutting the Constitution! Arresting and holding people forever without due process! As I grew up, I was taught that the REASON we are America is that We do not do these horrible things to people — we are a government of laws, not men. What will they teach people now? They have to rewrite all of the history books! We arrest people now without due process and hold them forever. Torture is permitted. It is no longer America if we do these things. What is America now? An oligarchy where the rich steal from the poor and gut our laws, our environment, and our Constitution.
I have been in a moral rage against the Republicans for years– they steal elections, they bomb and murder innocent people, they hire mercenaries, they destroy the environment, they take payoffs from the drug companies, the oil companies, the chemical companies. They have become a ruling oligarchy. They control the Press– all things we always considered un-American.
And still these digbats hold some sort of script as a moral voice — Why? Because they oppose abortion. Listen to this –
if we give them the abortion issue, Can we have our democracy back? Can we restore the American Constitution? Can we protect people from the drug companys’ corruption — with no oversight they are allowed to sell people drugs that will kill them in order to increase their profits?
The Republicans allow the oil and chemical companies to dictate how many policies? War and peace among them. The destruction of our air, our water, our earth goes on. Are we not in a moral rage about that? And to threaten to gut social security– so the rich cronies can get richer–
How do you like that: All that money lying there belonging to poor people, and middle class people — and the rich want to take it for themselves in profits — because for some reason they are not rich enough yet!
See you got me started about my values rage — and I could go on all day.
The Democrats have ALWAYS been about values.
They have somehow been coerced and beaten into silence by the success of the Rove-right-wing media-control — and their own ties to the corporations — which we see in the great stuff that has been published lately about the “Democratic” PR-money groups in DC, the Consultant class, and the DLC. They have made their own pacts with the oligarchy and sold out the store.
I love your taking back the values issue for the Democrats. I appreciate that you have to rebuild it from scratch. Remember the Democrats were always the party of justice and social justice. And that’s why we are so angry that it has been eviscerated and our country has been stolen from us by people who want –What, exactly? Because what is left looks to me like a big value-less void.
They have left it to us to re-create America.

]]> By: Randy Gold http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-318785 Randy Gold Sun, 01 Oct 2006 16:41:35 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-318785 <p>Excellent work! Professor @274 makes a crucial point. These ideas have to developed in a consistent manner at multiple levels of complexity, from the simplest “sound bites” (I hate to use that term) to the underlying manifesto. Think about how the neocon agenda, with respect to a worldview at least, started to take shape during the Reagan years and coalesced into PNAC in the 90’s and continues today in its most simplistic form. We can certainly disagree with it, but it’s all there for everyone to see in its completely developed form. </p> <p>Also, I think the idea of “principles” vs “values” is quite astute and important. One needn’t rule out the other. Exploring the distinctions will make this project more robust and valuable, even if the term “principles” never makes it into final public form.</p> <p>The Roots Project is vital and can’t be rushed, but this is a wonderful start as a sample of the work that’s been done over these last few months. If our so-called leaders won’t do it, then we must.</p> <p>Cat pic: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/rfgold/images/lennybenny2.jpg">Lenny Benny</a></p> Excellent work! Professor @274 makes a crucial point. These ideas have to developed in a consistent manner at multiple levels of complexity, from the simplest “sound bites” (I hate to use that term) to the underlying manifesto. Think about how the neocon agenda, with respect to a worldview at least, started to take shape during the Reagan years and coalesced into PNAC in the 90’s and continues today in its most simplistic form. We can certainly disagree with it, but it’s all there for everyone to see in its completely developed form.

Also, I think the idea of “principles” vs “values” is quite astute and important. One needn’t rule out the other. Exploring the distinctions will make this project more robust and valuable, even if the term “principles” never makes it into final public form.

The Roots Project is vital and can’t be rushed, but this is a wonderful start as a sample of the work that’s been done over these last few months. If our so-called leaders won’t do it, then we must.

Cat pic: Lenny Benny

]]> By: Pachacutec http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-318587 Pachacutec Sun, 01 Oct 2006 13:29:57 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-318587 <p>Lots of great feedback, folks. Nothing is finalized yet, and I really appreciate the very helpful and insightful thoughts of the community. In an open source movement, I'm not sure what "finalized" means, actually.</p> <p>Using Anglo-Saxon words intrigues me and your reworking, Hugh, reads really well. I'll spend some time to look more closely at what you've done as a contrast. Jeff's ideas about "principles" make sense to me from a certain point of view, but then again, I fear the distinction might come across as artificial and a little off key of we begin to make it broadly to people in the future. Insisting we have "principles," not using the word "values," might just sound weird to broad swaths of the population. But there's lots of great, thoughtful feedback here, and I greatly appreciate it, as always.</p> Lots of great feedback, folks. Nothing is finalized yet, and I really appreciate the very helpful and insightful thoughts of the community. In an open source movement, I’m not sure what "finalized" means, actually.

Using Anglo-Saxon words intrigues me and your reworking, Hugh, reads really well. I’ll spend some time to look more closely at what you’ve done as a contrast. Jeff’s ideas about "principles" make sense to me from a certain point of view, but then again, I fear the distinction might come across as artificial and a little off key of we begin to make it broadly to people in the future. Insisting we have "principles," not using the word "values," might just sound weird to broad swaths of the population. But there’s lots of great, thoughtful feedback here, and I greatly appreciate it, as always.

]]> By: JoyB http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-318581 JoyB Sun, 01 Oct 2006 13:27:12 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-318581 <p>moderator, could you just kill my comments? All 3? I just get a javascript error and can never edit.</p> moderator, could you just kill my comments? All 3? I just get a javascript error and can never edit.

]]> By: JoyB http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-318577 JoyB Sun, 01 Oct 2006 13:26:16 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-318577 <p>c</p> c

]]> By: JoyB http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-318575 JoyB Sun, 01 Oct 2006 13:25:28 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/30/late-nite-fdl-progressives-are-values-voters/#comment-318575 <p><a href="#comment-318518"><em>BQ @ 260 </em></a></p> <blockquote><p>Mornin’<br /> Haven’t read it yet, but the NYT has a story tracking the campaign contributions to Ohio Supreme Court justices and their decisions. One Repug that’s running for reelection is featured because his numbers are much higher than the rest. His opponent is a scrappy Dem running on the platform that he won’t take contributions (featured prominently at the end of the article) Another turd-in-the-punchbowl October Surprise for a guy who really deserves it. (skipping the link to avoid moderation - it’s at the top of the Politics page)</p> <p>For some fun, check out this video featuring DeWine and Junya (whoever came up with that, you have my gratitude) I wish I could figure out the YouTube link so people could vote it up there. It’s very catchy.</p> <p><a href="http://buckeyestateblog.com/boyfriend#comment">http://buckeyestateblog.com/boyfriend#comment</a></p></blockquote> <p>I live in central Ohio, and I am emailing this link to ALL of my friends and family (including a relative that is always invited to these very expensive fundraisers). Dead on video.</p> BQ @ 260

Mornin’
Haven’t read it yet, but the NYT has a story tracking the campaign contributions to Ohio Supreme Court justices and their decisions. One Repug that’s running for reelection is featured because his numbers are much higher than the rest. His opponent is a scrappy Dem running on the platform that he won’t take contributions (featured prominently at the end of the article) Another turd-in-the-punchbowl October Surprise for a guy who really deserves it. (skipping the link to avoid moderation – it’s at the top of the Politics page)

For some fun, check out this video featuring DeWine and Junya (whoever came up with that, you have my gratitude) I wish I could figure out the YouTube link so people could vote it up there. It’s very catchy.

http://buckeyestateblog.com/boyfriend#comment

I live in central Ohio, and I am emailing this link to ALL of my friends and family (including a relative that is always invited to these very expensive fundraisers). Dead on video.

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