
Dear President Bush:
Yeah, I know it has been a while since my last letter. I’ve been pretty pissed at you lately, and my momma taught me not to be rude in correspondence or when addressing public figures out of respect, so I decided not writing would be the best move. Unfortunately, your momma must have skipped the whole taking responsibility for your actions and owning up to your failures instead of blaming others part of your character education, so I thought I’d drop you a note and let you know that I read about your fundraising speech in Alabama.
You do realize that there isn’t enough lipstick in all the world to make your pig of a policy in Iraq look good, don’t you?
I mean, I know it’s an off-year election and all — and you are worried about the GOP losing control of both houses of Congress as a referendum from the public on your continued mismanagement of the mess in Iraq — but that is no reason to repeatedly lie. Why not address the criticisms head on instead of constantly inventing faux straw men?
Look, out in the real world, we’ve been hearing that your advisors don’t tell you the whole truth about things — that they only tell you what they think you want to hear. I’m sure a cowboy like you, sir, really wants some truth, so I’m sending some along:
– Ministers in the UK are arguing that British troops ought to be pulled out of Iraq and sent to Afghanistan under NATO control instead — because the Afghan conflict is winnable, and Iraq is not. Were you aware of this debate, because I haven’t heard you talk about it at all.
– Bob Woodward says you have been repeatedly lying to the American public, that your cabinet is full of people who can’t stand the sight of each other and cannot effectively work together — and that your Administration is refusing to give our troops what they have requested.
The White House ignored an urgent warning in September 2003 from a top Iraq adviser who said that thousands of additional American troops were desperately needed to quell the insurgency there, according to a new book by Bob Woodward, the Washington Post reporter and author. The book describes a White House riven by dysfunction and division over the war….
Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld is described as disengaged from the nuts-and-bolts of occupying and reconstructing Iraq — a task that was initially supposed to be under the direction of the Pentagon — and so hostile toward Condoleezza Rice, then the national security adviser, that President Bush had to tell him to return her phone calls. The American commander for the Middle East, Gen. John P. Abizaid, is reported to have told visitors to his headquarters in Qatar in the fall of 2005 that “Rumsfeld doesn’t have any credibility anymore” to make a public case for the American strategy for victory in Iraq….
Robert D. Blackwill, then the top Iraq adviser on the National Security Council, is said to have issued his warning about the need for more troops in a lengthy memorandum sent to Ms. Rice. The book says Mr. Blackwill’s memorandum concluded that more ground troops, perhaps as many as 40,000, were desperately needed.
It says that Mr. Blackwill and L. Paul Bremer III, then the top American official in Iraq, later briefed Ms. Rice and Stephen J. Hadley, her deputy, about the pressing need for more troops during a secure teleconference from Iraq. It says the White House did nothing in response….
Vice President Cheney is described as a man so determined to find proof that his claim about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was accurate that, in the summer of 2003, his aides were calling the chief weapons inspector, David Kay, with specific satellite coordinates as the sites of possible caches. None resulted in any finds.
Gee, I guess Woody won’t be on the cocktail weenie Christmas party list this year at Casa Cheney, eh?
– Our partners in democracy in Iraq have now instituted a "no criticizing the government" law and are arresting journalists who do so. Heckuva job, Bushie. (Ooops, sorry sir, that sarcasm just slipped right out there…)
– We lost a 52-year old reservist in Afghanistan. I know that’s not Iraq, but you should probably know that things aren’t so great there, either. Just FYI.
– What’s with holding back the bad news all the time? Are you too chicken to allow Congress to see how bad things truly are — because for you it’s all about politics and not nearly enough about protecting the lives of our men and women in uniform by changing course if need be to something better? (Ooops, I guess that was a little snarky, too, wasn’t it? This not being too pissed thing is hard work. You know all about that sir, don’t you?)
– Oh, and just in case you missed it, some of our nation’s retired military brass think you are doing a craptastic job in Iraq. You know, all those people with real world, battlefield experience that Rummy told to either STFU or get out and leave the work to his yes men?
Look, sir, the bottom line is this: your tactics aren’t working very well. You need to be honest with yourself, as well as with the rest of us in America. But because your ego and your constant need to be publicly campaigning instead of doing your job seemingly won’t allow you to be honest with yourself or with the rest of us, we’re going to work our butts off to elect some Democrats this Fall who will provide some much-needed oversight and demand accountability from your Administration. Heaven knows the rubber stamp Republicans haven’t done so the last five plus years.
We need honest oversight and accountability, and we need it now. The lives of our American soldiers and the safety of our nation deserve nothing less.
Yours in patriotism, Christy



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Tristero!
Good morning, and let’s keep fighting! And Go Blue!
What, no hugs and smooches? My letters to Junya always end in hugs and smooches!
Hugs and smooches!
Joe “I’m dying here” Lieberman
Have you no decency!!!…to put a picture of a pile of stinking pig shit at the top of your post.
Larry
Good morning gang!
Use smaller words.
“accountability” has no meaning in his head
CHRISTY!!!
Oh, and TOMMY YUM!!
Lordy, Tommy, where you been? We’ve been missing you on Late Nites. Nobody mixes a Sazerac like you!
Morning all.
You know… after the 2004 elections I was really down and out. I imagined that bad things would go down in this country. My nightmares were not pretty.
But even in my most depressed and cynical, I never could have imagined that our legislative branch would legalize torture and grant the President the power to “disappear” people.
I hate it when reality is so much worse than the nighmares in my head.
There’s the law, and then there’s the Constitution, and then there’s what “my momma taught me.”
The “no criticizing the government” one sounds really familiar. Oh yeah . . . Ari “watch what you say” Fleischer would be so proud.
let’s not forget to FITZ!
Amen Christy. You summed up my angst towards this SOB wonderfully!
Thanks for writing the words that I couldn’t stay still long enough to write.
And about this whole Woodie thing…what got into him? Did he eat a bad weenie?
(uh…yeah.)
cbl– I have had that particular song in a loop in my head for some days now…
strange, that.
After yesterday, I’ve had enough CSPAN-2 for a lifetime.
That is until Conyers kicks into gear. :-)
Good morning, Tommy. Howie and I were singing your praises on Wednesday night over artechoke casserole (Christy would’ve been proud).
The Pig is coming on tv ,once again to tell us how wonderful the war is. I would like to know if the mid term elections are rigged and they keep all the power what will happen to us?
Morning All,
Christy, was wonderin where you were – was checking WVA newsites to see if troopers had been called to Rockfeller’s offices to quell
ATTACK OF THE 50 FOOT REDDHEDD IN 3D
‘zup Tommy and T Rex !
Not on our list either!
After 6 years of kissing Junya and Darth’s butts, Woody turns out to be a “fair-weather friend”. Who would’ve thought?
My how opportune he is…NOT!
Woody doesn’t seem to realize that he burned his bridges with us a long time ago, and no amount of Junya grave-digging now will resucitate Woody’s miserable and well-deserved ignominy!
Gonna have to buy your own cocktail weenies now Woody. Oh the shame of it all!
Another great post, Redd. You’ve been on fire! However, something tells me that you didn’t really send that letter. I know, of course, it wouldn’t have made any difference. Shrub can’t read anyhow!
cbl at 17 — I’m having another cup of coffee before I call Rockefeller’s office. But let there be no doubt, they’ll be getting a call. As will Byrd’s — he voted against the Specter-Leahy Amendment yesterday for some reason, and I want an explanation from both of them.
omg, waving to Lord Kobe’s human companion
an ego that enters the room a full 10 minutes before he does – L-E-G-A-C-Y
Sky-Ho @ 6
Well you have to say it like he would: a coun ta BIL i ty.
You know, like a five year old.
Iraq logic fails because Bush doesn’t care. What matters to him is that the family trust funds are growing nicely thanks to his war. Stop the flow of money and he might change his tune.
btw, gang, I inadvertently left out a segment when I cut and pasted the post into WordPress — if you refresh, you’ll get the full post above now. Sorry about that — not nearly enough coffee yet this morning.
Good morning, firepups -
or should I say fellow subjects?
What news from our Leader and Master of the Gulag?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 24
Redd, if you write like that without a full cup, I’d hate to see you on a fully caffinated rant!!!
You go girl!!!
Zergle at 26 — this was a half a cup rant this morning. *g* You should see me with a double shot mocha. hehehehe
“Thank you for doing your doody” 911,either you are with or your against us, Afgan is such a better place. I detest the sorry excuse of a human being.
Golly gee willickers!
Will ya look at all the folks who must’ve pulled an all-nighter!
There’s TRex, and OldCoastie, and even Jane.
I must say that 5 hours of sleep myself was just mahvelous! *g*
I juuuuuuuust woke up about a half hour ago. I need to go iron a shirt for work, but it’s so much nicer just to sit here and drink coffee.
Thanks Christy.
It’s great to have a place to come on a sad day like today. We fight on, together.
Try the General and pay your respects: http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/
John at 31 — I woke up crabby this morning. The coffee is helping a little, but the community is helping a lot this morning. :)
Wow Christy -
I’d love to see the double shot of mocha…
(what would happen with a triple?)
Thanks for sharing your strength and passion on this funereal morning.
This might help: http://www.worldcantwait.net/i…..;_event=14
10/05/06…
don’t normally do this, but can not get this one out of my head
By the rivers of Babylon
Where we sat down
And there we wept
When we remembered Zion
But the wicked carried us away in captivity
Required from us a song
How can we sing King Alfa song
In a strange land
Sing it out loud
Sing a song of freedom sister
Sing a song of freedom brother
We gotta sing and shout it
We gotta talk and shout it
Shout the song of freedom now
So let the words of our mouth
And the meditation of our heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight
Sing it again
We’ve got to sing it together
Everyone of us together
Ironically, based on an old spiritual – the lamentations of children being kidnapped and taken to, you guessed it, Iraq
I spoke with Boxer’s Leg. Director re the torture bill on Wed. asking how they would have time to conference on the two versions of the bill and still recess on Friday. He said the White House would simply call the House leadership and get them to approve the Senate version.
Back in the old days (pre Bush) they used to have a quaint little practice called a conference committee made up of representatives of both parties where they would do a provincial little thing called compromise.
Our three branches of government are currently rotten to the core. Separation of powers and checks and balances are going the way of the Edsal.
God save us.
Excelleant post Christy. You hit all the points.
Tommy Yum, I am so glad to be on at the same time as you cause I wanted to tell you soemthing.
I played the “had enough” song/video for Littleprop, who loved it and asked her big brother (the sometimes rock musician) about it, who looked up the squirrel nut zippers for her on the net, so I guess she found some I-tunes or something because she took some songs to school.
You and yours are THE HOTTEST thing in her school right now. Her cool quotient went up a mile for having found you.
I get such a kick out of that
Mornin’ all
Went to a book gathering with Bill Scher of Liberal Oasis last night. At least we talked about other things for a while. I needed that. Also got him and Charley from BlueMassGroup, our best state blog, interested in putting Spotlight on their blogs. We have GOT to complete Dau’s triangle and overwhelm them with our truth.
It doesn’t really feel like such a rotten day to me. Sure, last night the Republican led Senate did what the Republican led Senate does. They continued to enable the president. But that is sooooo not the only thing that happened this week. We now have the NIE to throw at the administration and that British report that says all the same stuff.
Today is just another day to fight. What, did we think that suddenly things were going to do a complete 180 from the last five years and abruptly go our way? The elections haven’t happened yet, y’all!
Up and at em!
T’rex, misread your comment to be something about iron shirts!!Do you have a spare one for our local End the War demonstration Tomorrow?
RH–I’ve read in several places that Reid traded the filibuster option away because he thought he had the votes for Specter. (In fairness, I’ve heard it another way from a Kerry staffer, that they simply lacked the vote count going in and they had felt “left out there” on Alito.) An earful for Byrd isn’t enough.
And I’m with resonator #1. I’m not the world’s biggest tristero fan normally but go read his posts at Digby these last couple of days. I spoke last night with a staffer (permanent, not an intern, someone we’ve met with a few times) in Kerry’s office. When I laid out the NIE language in conjunction with the detainee bill, and said how concerned I and others were about what could happen to any “leftist” in the “Internet Age”, his response was simply: “You should be.”
Careful, Christy. Remember, Joe Lieberman and other Repblicans have said that if you criticize the President you are undermining him and helping the terrorists. Which means that under the new torture bill pushed thru Congress, you can be picked up as an enemy combatant, thrown in a cell, tortured, and have no recourse to the Courts.
Not content with destroying our republic… Bush and gang continues killing Americas best and brightest “commas”…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01765.html
Larry
So how big are GPS transponders? Can we have them surgically implanted so if we are disappeared we can be tracked?
Lina 37–they still have to schedule a vote to approve the conference committee’s version. Normally that vote is pro forma, but I’ll be inquiring as to whether there are any procedural options. Maybe you can as well.
that is the strangggest thing, I had a comment about Larry Craig up @ 13 and was just commenting on cbl’s Marley song and that comment replaced the original one at 13…
ghost in the machine!
oh well–
cbl– I have had that particular song in a loop in my head for some days now…
strange, that.
Sounds like you and patriot boy have been hanging out together.
Awesome rant and I agree with you all the way.
Goddamn I love the smell of snark in the morning! Havn’t slept much this night. The naked Emperoer is ranting as I hunt and peck. Fuck him, Pres.Cheny, Rummy, Condi, and all the rest. Thanks Christy and Jane. And all the rest of you who keep me sane.
Professor Foland @ 46
Heard on the radio that it would probably be fast tracked. I don’t think there is any way we can stop this bomb from falling. It’s already been dropped off the plane.
Glenn Greenwald has some important words today.
I’ve also been thinking that we may need to get behind Wes Clark for 08. Clark/Feingold. At this point it seems that the only thing standing between us and a military state is the military. For once I have more faith in the military—though that might be misplaced too.
Tommy
Further re: my #38
I think you may turn out to be her JK Rowlings. Littleprop was never a reader unti HArry Potter came along. Now she reads everything she can get her hands on.
Littleprop never like politics and tuned out whenever I tried to disuss current events.
Ever since “had enough” I ‘m getting these little sparks of interest from her. Last weekend she came running into the room I was in and put on the TV to show me the video for tha cover version of “land of Confusion” saying this video says Bush is a Nazi and turnignus into Nazis too.
last night she aske dme to read her a bedtime story (we still do that even though she will be13 soon) and she chose a snark book of “politically correct” versions of classic childrens stories. (We read the ones where the Big Bad Wolf was an imperialist on a land grab and the 3 little pigs were a freedom loving indigenous people)
I think you lit a fire in her for politics and justice the way JK Rowling lit a fire in her for reading.
How can I thank you?
I wanted you to know that you are having an impact that may reap rewards decades from now.
Well done
RevDeb @ 52
I love Wes Clark.
It will be interesting to see if there are significant resignations of military brass over Iran (the next debacle).
Easy there Christy Ole’ girl. With passage of yesterdays steaming pile of a torture bill, you could be hearing boots on your doorstep and a pounding on the front door soon…but then w/ winter approaching spending time in Guantanimo during the holidays might not be so bad. :)
While I welcome the Woodster’s slings and arrows as the sign of another loyalist jumping ship and showing just how out of touch and horrendous the whole Bush cabal is, I have still lost my stomach for him…
Looks like the US foreign policy team is down to Deadeye Dick, Laura and Barney….
-GSD
FWIW from Woodward’s book: Card Urged Bush to Replace Rumsfeld, Woodward Says
By William Hamilton
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, September 29, 2006; 10:02 AM
drinks at 55 — having gone to law school or practiced with a number of the AUSAs and the USAtty, as well as having been in front of the whole of the federal bench in my jurisdiction, and worked with the FBI and DEA and other law enforcement agencies — all of whom know me — I’d like to see them try and paint me as an unpatriotic miscreant.
I’m usually a lurker, but I can’t help ask a few questions and hope that someone can answer them for me please.
1. If this bill had been voted on along party lines, would it still have passed? By my calculations, the Repubs wouldn’t have had a “clear majority” or am I wrong on this?
2. Can this bill be overturned? I mean, that’s hoping Dems take back control of the Senate after the elections.
3. If the bill is overturned or whatever legalese you want to call it… can Bush and co. then retroactively be held accountable for their crimes?
4. I hope upon hope the Supreme Court rules this bill UNConstitutional, and if they do what happens next?
I am usually a proud New Jerseyan and I have to say that I am sickened and ashamed by Menendez and particularly Lautenberg, who I expected SO much more of.
If someone wants to email me any answers that’d be great, otherwise, I’ll just keep checking back here.
I hope I’m not being too naive or idealistic.
Thanks for your time, all.
Lou Costello @
32
Fight, Freeze or Flight – The Choice is Yours
The passage in the Senate of the Torture Bill will go down in history as a event which will live in infamy. The Democrats who voted in favor of it gave political cover to Republicans and the division in the Democratic party hurts those taking the principled stand. Reid giving up the filibuster can only be attributed to not having the votes because some Dems thought it would make them look weak on terror.
There’s been a lot of anger about this in the progressive blogosphere, and much has been directed at Democrats. Wrong target. Direct your anger where it belongs.
There’s been discussion about not supporting Democrats who voted for torture. Not this election.
There’s been discussion about giving up. Not on your life.
* * *
On the night of 23rd September 1779, John Paul Jones fought his most famous battle when he engaged H.M.S. ‘Serapis’ and the ‘Countess of Scarborough’ off Flamborough Head.
The ‘Serapis’ had superior fire power and Jones had to manoeuvre skilfully to bring his ship alongside and lash her to the ‘Serapis’. During the dreadful 3 1/2 hour fight on a millpond sea, the ‘Alliance’, part of Jones’ squadron, fired at the ‘Bonhomme Richard,’ holing her so badly that she later sank. Over half of the crews of the two ships, including Jones himself, were either killed or wounded and many men were horribly burned.
The captain of the British warship, who heard the calls for surrender, yelled across to the Jones, “Have you struck? Do you call for Quarter?” Jones then replied, “I have not yet begun to fight,” – words that have defined the American navy ever since. With that, the battle continued. Jones had to transfer his crew to the ‘Serapis’ and together with her sister ship the ‘Pallas,’ which had captured the ‘Scarborough,’ he sailed to the Texel in Holland with over 500 prisoners.
Jones’ fighting spirit and determination were contagious. Though the odds against victory remained formidable, Jones’ will to win reinvigorated his crew.
* * *
In World War II in the Battle of the Bulge, the American forces were cut off from their supply line, without cold-weather gear, outnumbered, and unable to be resupplied or supported by air due to some of the worst winter weather in years, yet the Germans were still unable to take the city.
Bastogne became a large obstacle in the German armored advance because of the major road junction there. The morale of Allied forces elsewhere on the Western Front was boosted for this feat of stubbornly defending this besieged town.
The most famous quote to come out of the battle was from the 101st’s acting commander, Brigadier General Anthony McAuliffe, when awakened by an enemy request for his surrender: “Nuts!”
* * *
That’s my response to the torture crowd – NUTS!
I have not yet begun to fight.
RevDeb — I wish I could agree on Wes for Pres — but I very badly want him as SecDef.
I think he’s the only guy I’d trust to clean up the DoD. I’d go with Murtha if I could be certain the folks in his state could find a capable Dem to replace him, would rather not chance it.
I do b’lieve that the torture in chief has been using a bit of the ole grecian formula.
Praising Pakistan now.
He just said Kalake Shake Mohammed.
no kidding.
Awww, I’m sure Junior is just a little confused, because every other time in his life he was failing badly, Daddy’s friends bailed him out and he told himself he’d really succeeded (all on his own and with no help from anyone, no, no, no.) So he knows he can’t possibly fail in Iraq, and things will miraculously turn around any moment now.
God help us all.
I am not quivering in fear. They’re gonna have to round up a whole hell of a lot of us. I don’t feel passive or fearful at all. I feel Powerfully Enraged. Republicans cowering under chimp have just gone too far with this mess, and this is all coming back to smack them, HARD.
HOW DARE THEY RUIN THIS COUNTRY?
Heckuva job, Bushie. This leads the news in Rochester, NY – a hometown boy is shot to death in Iraq after surviving 2 IED attacks.
The US jumped the shark yesterday.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 20
Thanks, Christy. I hope you will share their response. I also hope you will share Sherrod Brown’s response, because I think a lot of us who donated to him are feeling had right now. And I hope his response is better than the one he gave to MSNBC:
I sure hope he was misquoted, because this sounds like he’s using his “yes” vote as part of his campaign, and in the process attacking the Democrats who fought this abomination, rather than just using it as political cover (which for me would be bad enough, but I know there are quite legitimate differences of opinion on that.)
Rayne @ 61
Isn’t there some restriction on retired military becoming civilian leaders of DoD? A certain number of years you have to be out of uniform?
Wes would also make a great Sec. of State, but I want him at the top of the ticket on ‘08.
Thanks windje, both are very appropriate today.
j.cro at 59 — the GOP holds a majority in both houses of Congress, so a straight party line vote would have passed the bill in both houses, assuming no defections from either side. There will likely be judicial review of this because I would think there would be an immdeiate challenge issued to its constitutionality by the ACLU and others immediately following signing of the President. That will take a while, though, for review, because there will have to be a determination made as to which jurisdiction will be able to hear the case — I’m wondering if they will shoot for an expedited hearing process, but that will be up to the SCOTUS and other levels of the federal bench. Also, if the Dems retake Congress, this bill could be overturned — but Bush would have to sign that into law as well, and that’s not likely to happen — but any veto can always be overridden by a vote in the Senate as well, if the votes are there to do so. (It takes a 2/3 majority to override.)
Making it Right
Morning all,
I’m not sure this totally fits here, but during a frustrated and sleepless night (mostly spent lurking on this site and enjoying some wonderful and cathartic rants on Kos) I was trying to think what to do with my anger and frustration about the torture vote and the Democrat’s inability to keep it from happening. And I had a thought about how to channel that frustration more productively that I wanted to share.
I genuinely agree with the view that now, more than ever, we have to move forward and win everwhere we can in this election. But I don’t want to forget or minimize the awfulness of what just happened or let the Democrats off the hook for their part in it. So I was thinking (and maybe this is partly the parent of a rather large number of kids talking) that, instead of threatening punishment, we should start telling the Democrats, beginning now, that if they regain majority status with our energetic help we expect them to “make this right” in every way that remains available.
By this I DON’T mean outright and immediate repeal. I don’t that can happen any time soon even if we get the majority of both sides of Congress (for the next two years any significant change would be vetoed anyway). What I do mean is to start making it clear to the Democrats we work with and support that we don’t consider this “over,” that we haven’t forgotten, and that we would expect the following from them in the majority:
1. A bright and unforgiving spotlight on past abuses – this administration’s been given a free pass legally for its past illegal torture, but a Democratic party with subpoena power has the ability — and moral obligation –to make sure that the court of public opinion and the ultimate judge of history knows as much as possible about every terrible thing that was done, including the rapes of children, murders of innocents. We should insist that they do so.
2. Tenacious oversight going forward – Bush has been given unprecedented powers to detain and maltreat. We should insist that Democrats impose an iron grip of oversight, relentlessly demanding to know every action taken pursuant to that authority. This both builds the public and historical record and may deter some of the worst abuses.
3. No weakening of other sources of accountability – The free pass given on war crimes cannot be made worse by allowing a free pass on warrantless spying or the other illegal actions by the administration that (with subpoena power) are likely to be revealed. We must insist that there be no NSA bill giveaway in the lame duck session. No other weakening of existing law on this administration’s behalf.
3. Incremental repeal – finally, use every trick and maneuver possible to, eventually, take this sucker back. If we have both houses, we may be able to do a little of this under Bush, by shoving some smaller things (i.e. tightening the definition of torture) into must-pass bills. If some provisions are ruled unconstitutional, DON’T REPLACE THEM. Insist of all presidential candidates that, if they want our support, they will agree to sign the fullest restoration of law that Congress can produce (even though it means reduced presidential discretion, which most presidents will be reluctant to give up).
This terrible thing demands accountability, including for the Democrats. But the best kind of accountability, it seems to me, is to make them understand that in helping them win we are also expecting them, in every way possible, to FIX THIS. Starting now (I was thinking of writing this up and sending to my Democratic Senators and representatives today — but thought I’d try it out here first!) and continuing to drum it into them (through calls, letters, letters to the editor, etc.) every chance we get.
What do you think?
lawsinger
We shall not, we shall not be moved
We shall not, we shall not be moved
We’re fighting for our freedom,
We shall not be moved
We shall not, we shall not be moved
We shall not, we shall not be moved
We’re fighting for our children,
We shall not be moved
yup, apparently I’m going this route today
The Bush “comma” comment churned my stomach…..They “love and support” the troops so much that they have made their deaths and injuries invisible to the average American with censorship and bullying.
Bush had better hope that 50 years of history makes him look better because he is looking like Augusto Pinochet right about now.
-GSD
J. Cro at 59
1) I don’t have the vote count handy , but 13 prinicpled Republicans (Jane is right to want to dialogue) voted aginst it, so You may be right.
2) yes it cane be repealed
3) on it’s face No which is why I am so upset. Though I am working on the vague beginnings of a leagal theory. Not a fully coked idea yet.
4) the Surpeme Court doesn’t rule an entire bill unconstitutional throwing out the good with the bad (I know, I know, there is no good in this one) it rules aginst specific provisions or even single words.
It’s very specific.
You know what really pisses me off? My husband saw me break down and bawl last night over my keyboard when they tallied the vote on that abortion they call S. 3930. When he asked what was wrong I couldn’t choke out a thing.
I am rarely ever speechless.
I hate that these f*ckers have muted me and more than half this country on every turn.
They are a minority with an irrational amount of power, and they should be scared stiff for the hour we find our collective voices and power and aggregate our strength as the true Moral Majority.
Promise me that if there is any stench of bullsh*t this Election Day that we will march in the streets.
Pachacutec @ 51
Yup, well worth the read!
I commented earlier over there:
Christy @ 70,
Thank you SO MUCH for answering my questions, and so quickly at that.
I’ve also written to my Senators asking them how they could vote yes for this bill.
Thank you and everyone else at FDL for having this site…
I’ll just keep hoping for the best, in the meantime.
OK…I need something to make me feel better. Are there any baseball fans from St. Louis I could pick on this morning? LOL
Go Astros!!!
No school today. So I am curled up on this cool, crisp and sunny Oklahoma morning with a good movie (”Good bye, Mr. Chips”) and reflecting.
Yes… I shall keep working for my Democratic Party. And I think we shall prevail this autumn and in the fall of 2008. But if the Democrats lose again to the Republicans now and two years hence, ONLY, in my view out of FEAR once again to take on the fascists, then I will take a look at my party loyalty in 2009. I don’t mind losing one bit. But it’s how we (the Democrats) play the game that’s paramount for me. That is, we simply tell the truth and fight with all our might to get our message out to the American people. Regardless.
I think there are a couple of things that bear repeating from yesterday’s comments from Mary, I believe it was.
Mary said:
“How can we claim them as our values and vote for or support people who pissed on them?”
And:
“You cannot be scum and demand accountability.”
One can be a hypocrite AND vote for a hypocrite. I happen to be a function (substance) before form (pragmatism) type of person. Or… principle comes before the ‘whatever it takes to win’ mentality. The ends rarely justify the means in politics and social activism. To argue this point with me is to deny everything I was ever taught by my mother, grandmother, teachers, preachers and priests. So yes. I will support my party through 2008. But if we fail because of timidity, fear or wrongheadedness on things like the war in Iraq and not supporting and struggling for a peace settlement between the Israeli’s and Palestinians, come 2009, well…
I want my party to fight for peace, to represent old people, working men and women and their kids. I want my party to support compassion for those, who through no fault of their own, are poor and destitute. I want to see the sick and disabled cared for. I want my party to fight for the health of Mother Earth. And above all, I want my party to scream the truth. Whether we win or lose, we will have done it with the knowledge we did what was right. We will have a clear conscience. And then. Very important for me. I can remain a Democrat.
Revdeb-it has been fast-tracked. There will be no conference committee, the final differences will be worked out only among the leadership. However, there must still be a vote on the final version. Normally that vote is pro forma and is often (though not always) even agreed to by unanimous consent.
I spoke with a Kennedy staffer (an actual permanent staffer, not an intern) a little bit ago; he didn’t know whether there would have to be a vote on it thereafter. Constitutionally I don’t know how it can be avoided. I urged him that any votes that would normally be pro forma or unanimous consent be objected to.
Republicans = puss.
Professor Foland @
42
shit.
** edited – i should add that i keep hoping that my fears and concerns are unfounded…. hasn’t happened so far.
RevDeb @ 45
Unfortunately, no. GPS tells you where you are, it doesn’t tell the GPS system where you are. It’s actually a receiver, not a transmitter. (The stuff you may have read about rental-car companies using GPS evidence are because they have access to the transponder and the system that records its data.)
Also, if you’re in a chain-link cage, no signals are going to get out anyway.
Now, you could possibly have an implanted GPS transponder to prove where you were taken if you ever got out. I don’t know if they’re small enough for that, though.
I have a legal question: How can retroactive immunity for war crimes already committed be reconciled with Article I, Section 9: “No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed”?
The ex post facto was always explained as “they can’t prosecute you for something that wasn’t illegal when you did it by making it illegal now,” but isn’t the inverse of that equally true?
I know that expecting the congress to follow the constitution is quaint and all, but I’m just wondering.
From ABC News: White House-Abramoff Contacts More Extensive Than Thought
Congressional Report Finds Convicted Lobbyist Had Contact With Karl Rove, Ken Mehlman
Thanks lhp and Christy for your answers.
looseheadprop @ 74
Thank you!!!
the Special Forces types speak of such a thing – just sayin’
That whole Woodward thing just pisses me off. How long has he known these things he’s telling us now? Why weren’t they reported before now? Like during the ‘debates’ etc that have been going on?
Because he wants to sell millions of copies of his sniveling little book.
F Him.
Journalist REPORT the news. They shouldn’t sit on it for profit. The same goes for the NYT guy about the prisons. That strikes me as important news, report it you overstuffed slugs!
End-o-rant.
lhp #74 — IANAL, but I wonder if the clauses that provide protections to the POTUS were unconstitutional whether there wouldn’t still be recourse to prosecute for war crimes since they were war crimes BEFORE the legislation was in place…?
What I don’t know is whether we ever had a U.S. vehicle (non-ICC) in place for war crimes prosecution for those out of uniform.
Woodward’s books is going to come out soon with a blaze of publicity, talk shows, etc. His mild criticism of the Iraq War and Bush will make him look like a member of the opposition.
DON’T BE FOOLED. WOODWARD IS PART OF THE PROBLEM AS WE PLAMEWATCHERS KNOW.
DON’T BUY HIS BOOK. DON’T GIVE HIM A DIME. IF YOU MUST READ IT, CHECK IT OUT OF THE LIBRARY, STEAL IT OR BUY IT USED FROM AMAZON.COM.
DON’T GIVE HIM A DIME.
Same with Ricks’ book “Fiasco” by another WaPoer. Where was all this great reporting 2-3 years ago when it mite have made a difference? Was he saving it for his damn book like Woodward?
DON’T BUY THESE BOOKS. NOT A DIME TO WAPO WRITERS, EXCEPT MAYBE FROOMKIN IF HE WRITES A BOOK. Or buy Olberman’s book.
http://www.amazon.com/Worst-Pe…..mp;s=books
where are my manners ?!?! oh yeah, ouside smoldering in the burn pile with my
freedoms
but, yes thank you Christy, lhp, and others answering our questions
j.croe 49
re: #2 as my later post suggests, I think it’s unlikely to be reversed as a whole by legislative action. For the next two years, Bush would veto any attempt (if it even got that far). Afterwards, different parts will be harder and easier. I think the liability parts are hardest, if possible at all. Taking back the presidential discretion to define methods and detain would require a compliant president (they usually don’t like to give up discretion). Re-establishing some judicial review and banning more forms of torture probably would be easier.
re: #4 as looseheadprop says, the Supreme Court would take on the provisions separately. Some are easier to challenge than others, some probably stand up, and any review is years away (you need a person with a good case directly affected by that particular provision and it needs to work its way up the courts). So that’s why my post focused more on ways to (a) reveal the truth to public scrutiny; (b) contain the damage; and (c) chip away at the law itself.
Bivey Memo @ 90
If you’re going to do that, use the Amazon link on the FDL front page so they get credit, not this one.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 58
Of course first we would have to know which gulag and under what name they were holding you before we could even begin to raise holy hell about your detention…. and thats assuming they would admit to holding you..
Just sayin…
Larry
resophonic @ 84
No.
lina @ 37
I know I am dreadfully naive, but is that legal? Isn’t there supposed to be a vote on a compromise version?
Regarding war crimes: Just because these thugs have some kind of immunity under US law doesn’t mean they can’t stand in The Hague someday. Rumsfeld better not travel abroad much after he leaves office.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 58
If I can use my phone, you’ll be the first person I call if they come for me.
can you say Max Cleland ? knew ya could
State of Denial: Bush at War
by Bob Woodward
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #2 in Books
October 2, 2006 release
http://www.amazon.com/State-De…..mp;s=books
Pachacutec @ 98
That presumes they will let you make a phone call. At this point, it would seem that this is in doubt. How can you be disappeared if they let you call someone?
Would that every presser from now on would have the press corps starting their questions with this phrase/disclaimer “With respect to the office of the president…”
And then ask real, tough questions.
But that’s my dream…just like modern medicine will find a cure for CLL and conduct stem cell research sensibly regulated and strongly funded.
As for firecracker George…his day of accountability is coming. If not on election day, then judgment day will have to do.
From the post the other day some 40 percent of Christians in this country seem to think torture is a good idea, many in congress and the administration are among those, and those with out strong opposing conviction. We are where we are for various reasons not all being that this administration does not represent many Americans, unfortunately they do. I don’t want to feel my guts yanked out again in failed elections, to release that anxiety for some is a necessary preparation for further battle. Some FDLs have expressed that the fight for weak Dems. Is difficult and we know the reasons as posted yesterday. None of us really have the answers either but if one compares the failed policies of this administration to those of Dems. I don’t see much light between. Yesterday someone posted that a Dem. they had fought for voted for torture and how let down they were, I am almost consistently let down by Schumer and Clinton. I can not support a candidate or party that supports war and there is no compromise as I can not support a candidate or party that supports torture and I don’t care where or to whom.
Sigh. Anyone looking into my office in the last 5 minutes would have seen me with a scowl on my face, and fingers just hovering over the keyboard. Have started and deleted and started and deleted again and again, as I struggle to put into some coherent form what I am thinking and feeling, so I guess I will just start typing and see where this goes.
Right now, my head feels like someone has the remote and keeps changing its channels – thoughts skitter from one issue to the next, emotions percolate and simmer and boil, and I need it to come together.
Christy, being a member of the generation that was raised to mind my manners and respect authority, I have to sometimes talk myself into being confrontational and demanding, while keeping my voice level and my demeanor acceptable – because I know that when one yells and screams no one hears the content, they just want to get on the PA and ask someone to get the Midol from Aisle 7, STAT!
I save my yelling for the car and my house, where I am pretty sure – for now, anyway – that no one is going to cart me off and medicate me, or decide I represent a danger to the republic and send me off where I will never be heard from again.
We’ve tried “rational.” We’ve all called and written and e-mailed and talked and reasoned and researched. We’ve developed cogent and coherent and factual arguments to counter the propaganda that has become like some odorless gas that turns intelligent people into ciphers with rubber stamps.
I’ve tried looking at these issues from the other side, to see if I can understand better what and how people feel and believe, so that I can try to find the right word or the right argument that will change minds, but that doesn’t seem to work, either.
I no longer believe that George Bush and Dick Cheney and the rest of them could just be good people with the wrong ideas; these are not good people. They are bad people, with bad ideas. They are terrorists in patriots’ clothing. They are nationalists with delusions of imperialism. They lie to the American people, for their own gain and their own hold on power. They lie and manipulate as easily as you or I breathe, except that we don’t have to remember to breathe and they have to keep their stories straight.
Make no mistake. Every inch of this country’s soul they manage to eat brings us closer to the abyss. Every speech that is full of lies and distortion that goes unanswered in public way gives people the idea that they speak the truth.
I do not know how to make our Democratic representatives and party leadership understand that they MUST not waver. I do not know how to make them understand that if ever there was a time for solidarity, it is now. I do not know how to make them understand that their waffling and triangulating and posturing is not what is needed now.
It should be battle stations, balls to the wall time. They like war? We should give them war. Real, down-in-the-trenches war. We need a War Room, not a DLC, or a DSCC. We need people whose entire focus and job it is to counter Bush- and Cheney- and Rove- and Mehlman-speak whenever and wherever it happens. All day, every day, for as long as it takes to expose them as the liars they are, and neutralize their effect.
Well, seems I found my voice.
/rant
BarbaraB at 67, I could not agree more about Sherrod Brownh. I wrote his campaign today, saying I was done with any more contributions to him. Of course I will still vote for him over DeWine, but I am going to focus my volunteer efforts on the Shamansky campaign.
BTW–am a longtime lurker–first-time post.
OhioTex at 105 — welcome! Now that you found your blog voice, let us hear more of it. :)
looseheadprop@74 -
3) on it’s face No which is why I am so upset. Though I am working on the vague beginnings of a leagal theory. Not a fully coked idea yet.
I can’t wait to see what a “fully coked idea” is! :^)
S.3930 has been sent to the House today, so I guess it will be the final language, with little or no modification.
????
Not sure how this works procedurally before the Torturer in Chief gets to sign it and issue a signing statement saying he’ll comply with the parts he agrees with — like the unconsitutional clause giving HIM the authority to interprete Geneva and the clause letting HIM decide who’s an “unlawful enemy combatant” etc.
All you gotta do is look at the latitude he took with the AUMF. All Hail King George.
_
Rayne @ 75
Rayne, I’m glad to know that it was only a temporary condition. The world would be a much sadder place without your righteous voice. You helped rally my flagging spirits yesterday. For that I am grateful, thank you.
Yes, I promise you, that I will be there.
Anne @ 104
I seem to recall that’s EXACTLY what Clinton had in place. A war room that did nothing but deal with the tripe. Bloggers have been screaming for the same thing. In actuality, we ARE the war room, but no one has the balls to take what we give them and run with it. Clinton showed them just the other day how to do it, but they just won’t. I’ve heard no explanation that adds up to anything more than pretty words for straight up cowardice.
I just want these guys to do their jobs. Not the minimum as they have been doing, I want them to excel in their jobs for once.
…and if anyone says “keep the powder dry” again I will bite their nose right off!
“…waffling and triangulating and posturing is not what is needed now.”
Very good!
Heh. Dee, God help the Republicans whenever Christy gets fully caffienated and looseheadprop gets fully coked.
70 billion more dollars for the war…unanimously agreed to.
Encouraging news from western New York. Rep. Tom Reynolds (R-Delay Crony), Chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC)(Rahm Emmanuel’s Republican counterpart)just had his Green Party vote-splitter (who was polling at 8%) kicked off the ballot.
On Tuesday, September 26th the New York State Board of Elections determined Green Party candidate Christine Murphy’s candidacy to be invalid.
Whether that means Davis has 43 8=51% or not is to be seen. We’ll get some hint soon from this, also from the article:
On Your Side has commissioned a new survey with the two remaining candidates. The results are expected next Thursday.
Dag nabit, deputy dawg! All of CNY & WNY appears to be in play, up and downticket, based on all the close Congrgressional races, and the internals from the state-level races I’ve heard of.
G’mornin Christy,
Once again, your words echo my thoughts (minus the naughty words, of course). Is there any way to “Spotlight” your post to the Oval Office. Not that it will do any good.
I’m hoping for a miracle on the torture bill, but I’m not holding my breath.
Not to be an alarmist, but I feel our Republic sliding towards a dictatorship where a disproportionate amount of power is concentrated in the Executive branch. That, of course, is Karl Rove’s true dream: not simply a permanent Republican majority, but the ability of future Republican Presidents to rule at will, without the interference of the Legislative branch, and the tacit approval of the Judiciary.
What’s frustrating is that Rove is doing it, if not legally, through established democratic processes and procedures. The Republican majority, without conscious, pushes through the means to allow Bush to do as he wishes. The Democrats, out of fear or apathy or both, are helpless to stop this process.
The Executive’s power to wage war, to imprison enemies (real and imagined), to spy on our country’s citizens, to escape accountability have all been expanded. Irreversibly, I fear.
As Bobby Weir said, “I need a miracle every day.”
We could all use one today.
Hope is a new congress run by Democrats. I did my scattershot of contributions this morning to Rowley, Sestak, Fawcett, and Charlie Brown. Can’t afford Snoopy for now.
The ONLY hope is getting Dems in power in at least one chamber. I think the House looks pretty good, but I’d bust if we could take the senate. The CW is starting to show a possibility of just that happening.
But just give us the House and let Conyers do his thing…
1,272 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ JUST GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith:
First of all, I want to again thank you for being a community builder as a founder of this site…I would think that every day you must be buoyed with wonder at what you and Jane have wrought here.
Now about this torture thing…first of all, sometime back ( a couple years I think) you and I had a little colloquey about the efficacy of physical abuse and intimidation in the pursuit of law enforcement. I shared an experience I had in the military and warned you that, in a civilized society ruled by law, there has to be an indelible line that once crossed in the name of the law and public safety the very fabric of what makes that society worth preserving is lost. The action of congress this week has erased that line. The sanctioning of torture in the name of law and security destroys everything you worked so hard, as a prosecutor, to preserve. There is no escape from the conclusion that if this law passes, we are no better than Nazi Germany…we will have become what we profess to abhor and all of us will be responsible and held accountable at some point in history, for the terrible atrocities we are perpetrating on the world.
Secondly, there can be no argument , now, about whether or not “fascism” is an appropriate term to use in our political discourse. The only question is whether the term can arguably be applied to both political parties.
This election now defines the end of our history…this is no longer a fight to preserve some semblance of democracy, this election is about dismantling the fascist structure that has replaced constitutional government. For the first time since the Constitutional Convention, our politics is about whether or not human beings can govern themselves and at the same time advance a morality that defines “liberty” and “justice” and preserves what is left of human dignity.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS FIGHT JUST GOT SERIOUS!!
Larry @
4
so early in the morning, ahem!
So today we face the fact that a majority of Congress-Units voted for torture. Out of that majority, how many of the wimps who voted aye are really in favor of it? And how many did so out of fear of retribution from BushCo?
I’m not forgiving the losers who voted for this bill, but let’s look at this differently. The bad news is that Congress voted in favor of torture in the US. The good news is – well you get me. The backlash from this will begin when the public outcry begins, after people who don’t think it’s fun to watch C-Span2 find out what happened. After the military begins responding publicly in outrage, as well as the CIA folk.
The Rethugs can celebrate their great victory, but they’d better hurry. This one is going to be short-lived. And they gave us our BEST meme going forward.
Rockefeller surprised me too. I don’t understand. He’s really close to all this and he knows what’s going on. He wasn’t keeping copies of his objections to policy just for souviners. He had his reasons so what happened? Thanks for the wake-up note, it was good with my coffee too.
Zergle, if you’re still here – Watertiger may have something for ya:
http://derenegade.blogspot.com/
just page down until you see the words “Jesus” and “dog” (and then you’ll know why I didn’t link it directly here)
pwapvt @ 88
he stopped being a journalist a way long time ago.
JML @ 96
yes. but as someone said above it will be pro forma.
Zergle #117 — One of the keys to winning BOTH houses is tying every single Repug incumbent and candidate to George Bush.
If you blog, please post about the relationship that Repugs in your area have with Bush; if you can write LTE’s on the same topic, please do so. LTE’s are better since they reach those folks who are least internet-savvy but vote most often.
Bush is actively disliked by Republicans — not the neo-cons, who represent a small portion of Republicans, but by the old school Goldwater Republicans. (My in-laws are die-hard Repugs and they can’t stand Bush. MIL, suffering from aphasia, can barely choke out a coherent sentence but she’s told me twice she and FIL can’t stand Bush. Audibly, clearly – that took a lot of willpower on her part, working around her disability to say that.)
We need to play to the Goldwater crowd, when linking Bush to elected or candidate Repugs; how will electing this Repug to office get you smaller government? how will electing this Repug reduce our deficit? how will electing this Repug get our troops out of a morass of incompetence?
Pick a Repug, any one of them, and start hammering away at this angle. Rove tried to change the topic, make it about anybody but Bush; that’s what part of yesterday’s debacle was all about (besides an end-run on the Constitution to cover the moron-in-chief’s backside).
Favorite Prog music on this morning. Very inspiring…
Stand and fight we do consider
Reminded of an inner pact between us
That’s seen as we go
And ride there
In motion
To fields in debts of honour defending
- J. Anderson
Rayne-I envy your bawling release. I know I am long overdue. Someone told me once that tears cleanse. We need periodic sob sessions to flush out the toxins we are absorbing every damn day from this adm. I wish they could be as easily scheduled as dr checkups.
I went to see “An Inconvenient Truth” last night & after yesterday’s votes, I almost lost it during the scenes from Katrina. If I hadn’t been in a movie theatre in my home town where everyone knows everyone, I might have just let loose with a meltdown. Small town people have vivid imaginations & there would soon have been creative speculations ranging from me or my spouse running off with a 20 year younger lover to one of us gambling away all our assets. Hmmm…maybe I should have let go..it might have been fun to see what stories the grapevine central came up with.
OhioTex @ 105
My question is… How does anyone with even a smidgen of true respect for american ideals… endorse, support or vote for someone, democrat or not, who supports torture ? Has Sherrod Brown said he would torture less enthusiastically than Dewine?
I say a pox on them both…
…as I once again don my asbestos suit.
Larry
windje @ 60
Ironically, it’s this move that makes the “Dems” in question look weak on terror. It’s the same bunch of lily-livered time-serving pansies who fall down quivering every time Der Shrubbenfuhrer says “Terrists! Booga booga!”
Zergle @ 117
The Senate is from whence the court appointments come. We have to fight tooth and nail for every seat we can in both. Love Conyers and Waxman and want to see them set loose, but also want to hold on to the courts.
Balrog @ 126
My favorite Yes track ever, musically and lyrically.
EvilDrPuma @ 129
Dr. Z, please provide Spew Alert when using “Terrists! Booga booga!”
Thank you.
re: Balrog, 126
I should be working but that’s my absolute favorite Yes song and got me to crack a smile that I didn’t think I had in me. Thanks.
Just got a call back from Kennedy staffer. The leadership decided to simply send the Senate bill to the House unmodified (i.e. not to reconcile the bills, but instead to simply go with the Senate bill.) So the House just votes to approve it and all is done.
This avoids parliamentary maneuvers in the Senate; the House is very difficult to slow things down in.
OT Just heard on MSNBC Democrats will give speech at noon will keep listening till I can confirm it.
lawsinger @
133
My pleasure. I think it makes a nice theme song for our work. Class?
ironranger — oh, by all means, bawl away. You’d have had many reasons for doing so; the death toll from Katrina may yet meet that of 9/11, and that of the Iraq War to date.
And so many children still missing and unaccounted for.
Notice how little news has been generated about this.
Sob away.
Pam in SC @ 135
With due respect (and I mean that) to the bulk of Democrats who voted against this monstrosity, it’s a little late for the speechifying today.
Regarding Woodward and rumors of another Rove concocted Oct surprise, I am reminded of Rathergate. This admin is entirely dependent on smoke and mirrors. They rely on the strength of duping their opponents into using their own force against themselves because this admin has no force of its own.
I would hate to see anyone line up behind Woodward in hopes that he will provide the light for all to be revealed only to then pull an undercut.
wrt an Oct surprise, if not Woodie, keep your eyes peeled for another cartoon set up and undercut that wipes out credibility of outraged Democrats.
.
Balrog @ 126
Thanks for bringing this up: Yes – ‘Gates of Delirium’ 3 parts
Balrog @ 136
“Gates of Delirium.” I like it.
Larry @ 128
our only hope to to get Feingold, Leahy, et. al. into leadership positions. Dont think of it as supporting Sherrod Brown. Think of it as supporting the people who need our help stopping the next supreme court nominee.
Should have fillibustered this bill. Raise the stakes for the Rethuglicans as well.
I should have included the lyrics: http://www.yesworld.com/lyrics/Relayer.html
EvilDrPuma @ 129
I think the shrub says Terrists Boola Boola, (The Yale fight song)
Larry — jeepers, dude, have you actually looked good and hard at DeWine’s voting record?
Or really compared it to Sherrod Brown’s voting record?
We’re all of us FURIOUS about S. 3930, but let’s get frank about it; this is an issue that would NEVER have come to the floor if there had been a Democratic majority. Read Crashing the Gates’ on the subject of single-issue voting; this matter is not unlike women’s medical rights or the environment, in that voting for any and all Dems is a better, faster method of getting ALL of the single-issues resolved, versus supporting/not supporting a single Dem on a single issue.
Eyes on the prize: Both Houses of Congress under Democratic majority, and the ability to shape the next two appointments to the SCOTUS.
UPDATE: This is one tactic we still have in our holster, gang. We don’t want a Republican-weighted SCOTUS to rule on S. 3930.
2nd UPDATE: And in case folks haven’t noticed, the Repugs just plunked another 1.2 MILLION on ad buys against Brown. How you going to cover that?
1,272 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ONAND…
Come on folks…no more gnashing’ of teeth and expressions of dismay at “moderate” Democrats voting for fascism (you are surprised that a Rockefeller would vote for torture ??!! Come on get real!!) The whole thing is a mass of rotting effluence and the actions of the Senate have declared the end of this chapter in our history as a civilized country with any claim to leadership in the fight for human progress and justice.
We, ALL Americans, are now defined by our county’s actions as torturers, criminals, and murderers of hope and decency.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND!!
State of Denial: Bush at War
by Bob Woodward
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1 in Books
http://www.amazon.com/State-De…..mp;s=books
ding! ding! ding!
SusanG is on fire over at Big Orange
On Kicking Ass and Crashing Gates.
Here’s part of it:
.
Go read.
Given that any non-citizen can now be ‘disappeared’, I wonder who in their right mind would visit the US as a tourist?
If I might, a quote from Greenwald…
windje @ 150
Tony Blair, Silvio Berlusconi, Ahmed Chalabi…you know…enablers.
“OT Just heard on MSNBC Democrats will give speech”
Oh boy!!!!!!!!!!
You mean they’re going to talk some more?
Wow, I’d better tune in. Those democrats sure are good talkers. Why all they do is talk and talk and talk. Talk talk talk.
Why those democrats in washington must be GREAT blind dates. they can talk your ear off, talk talk talk.
Just don’t ask them to, y’know, DO anything
windje @ 150
Jose Padilla is a U.S. citizen, and he has been rotting in jail without charges for 4 years.
Makes me wonder why we’re so upset. These people have been emulating Josef Stalin without anyone’s approval for quite some time now.
Dear fellow FDLers. As promised, I did contact the Sherrod Brown campaign and pass along our concerns regarding his vote on the “torture bill” earlier this week in the House.
Below is the statement I received in reply.
Source may be found at:
http://sherrodbrown.com/road/stories/667/
The statement in its entirety, as received by me just a few moments ago:
“Congressional Update
“On Wednesday, Congressman Brown voted for a bill that creates a military
tribunal to try those enemy combatants that have been held by the government
since September 11, 2001.
“This compromise is supported by Senator John McCain, a former POW who fought
to ensure that this tribunal lives up to our national standards on human
rights.
“Unlike President Bush’s plan, this compromise measure prohibits the
degrading treatment of detainees and specifically lists the types of
behaviors that are banned in accordance with the Geneva Conventions.
“The Washington Post wrote about the legislation, “The compromise legislation
does not seek to narrow U.S. obligations under the Geneva Conventions in the
treatment of prisoners, as Bush had hoped.”
“Those detained have been held for more than 5 years with no opportunity to
prove their guilt or innocence.
“It will provide that opportunity, so that those who are innocent can be set
free and those who are guilty can be punished.
“The bill prohibits the use of cruel, inhumane, and degrading treatment of
detainees. Because that evidence is often unreliable, it will not admit
evidence obtained through torture
“Detainees will be entitled to Combatant Status Review, where they may
challenge their detention within the confines of the military tribunal
system.
“And the bill will allow combatants to receive an edited version of
classified evidence being used to convict them so that they can respond
without putting our national security at risk.
“Congressman Brown feels it has taken far too long for a legal framework to
be developed – for the innocent who must be freed, the guilty that must be
punished, and our homeland which must be secured.”
this is precisely my motivation and it is perfectly articulated!
(I kinda thought my 141 might end up in mod…)
windje @
145
Moola Moola Moola!
- Thurston Howell III
Heavens, a Yale man!
- Thurston again.
brendan @ 153
In case you didn’t notice, dickweed, most of the Democrats in Congress did do something. They said “no.” The ones who betrayed their party and this country did so of their own will, not their colleagues’ will, and you would do well to remember that.
Now shut your whining trap and go fight this thing.
windje @ 150
Not this girl. And less out of fear than disgust. Actually, I wrote the US off as a vacation destination after what they did to Maher Arar.
EvilDrPuma @ 138
This is about sound bites and positioning. I think they are smart to do this and not allow the Republicans to create the narrative for the next five weeks. We have heard bits and pieces of Dem positioning in various statements but hopefully they will pull it all together.
RevDeb — yeah, what SusanG said.
F*ckin’ A, man.
This ain’t no party, this ain’t no disco,
this ain’t no fooling around
No time for dancing, or lovey dovey,
I ain’t got time for that now.
Adie @ 155
nice spin there congressman!
almost good enough to rival what comes out of the white house communications shop. maybe we’re learning something at Karl’s knee after all.
Fern @
160
I don’t blame you! btw, I saw that Mr. Arar finally got an apology from the RCMP, any word from our goons yet?
dab from CT @ 160
Below the surface, I know you’re right. I’m just finding my middle ground between depression and mouth-foaming anger this morning.
I like how Bush keeps repeating that the most “solemn” or “important” duty of govt is to “protect” the homeland.
Nope. It’s the oath asshole. To protect and uphold the constitution.
Protect the homeland? That’s what Hitler used to whip everyone into shape.
Bivey Memo @ 165
See, George? This guy was paying attention to your oath. It’s easy if you try.
EvilDrPuma @ 164
Don’t get mad, GET EVEN
Heard Biden on Imus this morning say he voted no because of habeas corpus among other things. And he credited McCain for getting waterboarding stricken…in his discussion he talked about a staffer of his who went to Cambodia on a fact-finding trip and at the museum of Pol Pot atrocities a featured exhibit is waterboarding.
In the eyes of the world and those who believe Bush will go ahead and do whatever he wants [”I don’t have a problem with dictatorships as long as I get to be dictator…”], George Bush is akin to Pol Pot. That is the pig beneath the lipstick.
Bush is getting training tips for America 2.0
windje @ 150
Given that any non-citizen can now be ‘disappeared’, I wonder who in their right mind would visit the US as a tourist?
Not this girl. And less out of fear than disgust. Actually, I wrote the US off as a vacation destination after what they did to Maher Arar.
IT’S NOT JUST THE “NON-CITIZEN” WHO CAN BE DISAPPEARED. IT’S ANYONE. ANY OF US.
IF BUSH OR GONZALEZ DECLARES GREENPEACE A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION OR SOMEHOW OPPOSED TO THE US, ANYONE WHO DONATES CAN BE LOCKED UP WITH NO DUE PROCESS AND NEVER SEEN AGAIN. NO TRIAL. NO HEARING. NO NOTHING.
They deliberately removed the “on the battlefield” language so they could target us.
Let’s face it: none of this ever had anything to do with terrorism. It’s all about increasing their power, spying on their political enemies and installing a fascist state.
Power for power’s sake.
Folks, this is officially a Noble Cause.
You want the Shrub to suffer? Elect a Democratic Senate. If you elect dems, Bush suffers. A lot. Humiliations galore! We’re talking “to the pain” here.
Force the Republicans to defend themselves, with more than “well, some dems voted for it too.” Put a waterboard on a float, and follow them around. Get yourself a bright and shiny crown, and put a royal coronation of Bush on the next float in the parade.
For Bush, torture is having someone point out his mistakes. For Bush, torture is having his judgment questioned – and it being found lacking. Not even his six-fingered VP can save him from that.
So if Bush loves torture so much, let’s show him what it feels like. Iraq is a failure. Not will be, not might be, but is. Day after day after day, spotlight the media with his failures. Failure, failure, failure – the mantra of the Bush Administration. Iraq? Failure. Katrina? Failure. The list goes on . . .
Will it take a miracle to storm the castle? Sure, but what do you think gets dished up around here on a regular basis?
True Love of the Constitution . . . now that’s a noble cause indeed.
Only 12 hours left: http://nedlamont.com/blog/1576/open-thread
OhioTex @
105
Good morning all. I called Sherrod Brown’s office just now (1-800-587-4180) and asked for my donation back. I told the person I couldn’t give money to a person who voted for torture. She politely asked for my number and said someone would call me. It wasn’t that big a contribution, but I’d rather give the fifty bucks to someone who doesn’t vote for torture.
LindaR @ 173
That’s a brilliant idea.
“The juries [are] our judges of all fact, and of law when they choose it.” –Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816
I don’t think Bush and Jefferson are on the same page.
Don’t get mad, GET EVEN AHEAD!
AZ Matt @ 175
They aren’t even on the same planet.
Rayne-so many stories, countless untold stories, that media has failed to report. So much for a few weenie apologies awhile ago.In a blink of an eye, it was back to the mindless trash that msm insists that americans would rather see. Most of msm can’t distance themselves from their role in helping create the mess this country is in, but I don’t believe they are one bit concerned about their credibility. If we look at our “leaders” & media examples, I guess teaching our kids personal responsibility & integrity is now passe & “quaint”. Corruption, greed, torture, bald-faced lies are the new american values.
Support Dems like Brown who just voted FOR torture?
I’m a lifelong Dem and all that shit but I dunno anymore.
I like my Senator but he is the No. 1 money accepter from A-I-P-A-C and his policies reflect it. It’s why he’s almost silent on Iraq War. Lebanon? Nothing to see there. He’ll applaud when we bomb Iran as will the rest of the I-A-P-A-C-loving Dems.
Anne, Thank for sqeezing that out of your keyboard.
We now know we need several new justices, about sixteen senators, sixty new representatives and a new president. We need campaign finance reform and to wipe out the military industrial complex as we know it. We need to seriously overhaul and reduce the intel community and pentagon. We need something like a department of truth & civil liberties (DTCL) that reins over DOD and DHS and others. State secrets and the Oz curtain they hide behind will be the end of democracy imo. Whatever their value it’s just not worth it.
I still believe in the old addage “the truth will set you free.” Just not to sure our system allows for enough truth.
Fighting for democrats (and I still am) may very well be a must for the short term, but we the people cannot fight on even terms the very corporate machines that our labor enriches. Obviously money rules and that type of rule is what led the heard over a cliff yesterday.
The rules just changed and dissent will be oppressed in all of the ways we once considered tin foil. I don’t doubt it for a minute for the law now says so. Fascism is now official. Norske is right. Our country is no longer bound by even the idea of freedom or even leaning in that direction. Yesterday was the big Tip.
We fight net neutrality and the big boys just got society neutrality.
Every minute the goes by without full strength rejection of current events means we will have that much more to overcome tomorrow. How much more difficult will the struggle be when Bush attacks Iran and spikes the heck out of our energy prices, possibly as soon as next month?
Bivey Memo @ 179
Its a lesser of two evils choice. At present, the rethugs are clearly worse, so you really have no choice.
The real issue is campaign financing reform if you want to change the status quo.
“The general voice from north to south… calls for a bill of rights. It seems pretty generally understood that this should go to juries, habeas corpus, standing armies, printing, religion and monopolies. I conceive there may be difficulty in finding general modifications of these suited to the habits of all the States. But if such cannot be found, then it is better to establish trials by jury, the right of habeas corpus, freedom of the press, and freedom of religion, in all cases, and to abolish standing armies in time of peace, and monopolies in all cases, than not to do it in any. The few cases wherein these things may do evil cannot be weighed against the multitude wherein the want of them will do evil.” –Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1788.
Reason has been not an item of great importance to Bush who, the Dr. Evil Puma has noted, is on a different planet.
Sherrod Brown. Pro Torture. Pathetic democrat.
Just another morally bankrupt political opportunist
Bivey Memo — then the real issue is AIPAC, isn’t it? A Democratic Congress might actually do a better job of investigating the links between AIPAC and intelligence failures.
Remember Larry Franklin?
That was NOT the entire story. Didn’t even scratch the surface.
In the mean time, if I were you I’d get in your Senator’s face about AIPAC, pointedly asking him why the welfare of a single small country has so much influence on his political decisions, especially when that single small country’s political missteps do not sync with the interests of this country. Political instability in Lebanon caused by Israel’s outrageous cluster-bombing, for example; how’s that benefit America’s interests?
A Bright September Day
It happened in a hurry
That the rules were washed away
It was done with little notice
On a bright September day
“They hate us for our freedoms”
So due process we’ll give up
Call them “enemy combatants”
And forever lock them up
(chorus)
They don’t need to see the evidence
Or learn who turned them in
Interrogation methods
Set by Presidential whim
So forget habeus corpus
The Constitution too
Just say “enemy combatants”
And make them disappear from view
A self inflicted wound
Was administered that day
The terrorists made a nation
Give it’s principles away
So the patriots of yesteryear
Who died for rights held dear
Had their sacrifice diminished
Because it was an election year
(bridge)
The use of fear is all it takes
To make a once great nation yield its place
And become one of those other states
Where folks vanish without a trace
(chorus)
You don’t need to see the evidence
Or learn who turned you in
Interrogation methods
Set by Presidential whim
So forget habeus corpus
The Constitution too
If you’re called “enemy combatant”
Your rights are gone – you’re through
The steps along this process
And the use of fear this way
To keep some seats in Congress
On the next election day
Are aftershocks remaining
From another…
Bright September day
Once upon a time, America stood for something in the world and the protesters in Tiananmen Square chose a model of the Statue of Liberty as an important symbol of their protest.
It makes me heartsick to realize how severely our standing in the world has declined in the past five years. Can you envision something like that happening in a foreign country now?
EvilDrPuma @ 164
I know (sigh). I’m having a hard time getting out of bed today. The evil we’re fighting is just relentless.
I was raised an Episcopalian but feel more comfortable doing yoga and meditation than attending church. Yesterday I was really questioning the existence of God or a Supreme Being. Why is this happening? Why is it so hard to stop it? Why can’t we catch a break?
I don’t know what the answer is – but we have to keep fighting – keep persuading others – keep communicating that we need change and a new breed of politicians who can and WILL make a difference
SusanG has a great diary over at Kos:
“. . .This is democracy, people. Seize it. Take control. Grab hold of the Democratic Party and shake it until it the weak fall out and only the strong are left. Get fighters and warriors for justice and true statesmen and women in office. Isn’t that why we are here? Isn’t it?
This republic is bigger than this despairing moment. This democracy, as many generations have witnessed, is worth sacrificing for, is worth dying for. It’s hard to see it at this dark and humiliating point in our national history, when our Congress has tossed away some of our most fundamental rights, but we are lucky — yes, I said lucky — to have been born at a critical time in history, lucky to be participants in the great, unfolding pageant of this nation. Even at this very dark time, we are blessed. Whether we believe in a divinity or not, we have either been chosen – or the times chose us – to be the bearers of the standard for this country’s ideals.
Just a small reminder here: We are actors, not audience, in our civic life, unlike previous generations.. .”
http://www.dailykos.com/
OK everyone, there’s an easy button on the top of the page that says Blue America. Scroll up, click, find good candidates you want to support, give, then feel better.
Then, those who can, get out on the streets tomorrow to support your dem candidates. If they want a fight, we’ll give them one.
WE WILL NOT COWER
WE WILL NOT GIVE UP
WE WILL SHOW THEM!
WE WILL WIN.
now I gotta go look for a new microwave. When the going gets tough, the tough go shopping—but not until they’ve given $$ to good dem candidates. My list today, Ned Lamont, Coleen Rowley, Joe Sestak, Victoria Wulsin.
Woodward is his master’s voice…Just like in his briefer’s days.
I suggest resisting the temptation to act out of anger and deny Democrats your vote, and reframe the battle as a long-term struggle…Grassroots up, just like these pernicious fascisti Americanus did when they were sent to the wilderness post-Nixon. Building coalitions, and exerting waves of influence, always with accountability in mind.
The difference being, our accountability isn’t to the nabobs and their satraps at the top, but to the people.
Then, perhaps, we may discuss safety.
;>)
darkblack,
I hope you have someone in your life who will notice if you are disappeared and will raise bloody hell, and also let us know so we can too.
Just don’t want to lose you.
RevDeb @ 187
Yes!! I gave to Rowley and Wulsin earlier this week (and Tester). I’ll have to go give Sestak a look.
new thread: R-E-S-P-E-C-T
darkblack
as one artist to another, your technique and execution of your ideas is inspiring. for me, as far as visual politcal expression goes, your work is the gold standard.
Sestak is running against Crazy Kurt Weldon and he’s closing in. That’s enough for me right now.
cbl @ 122
Ok, that’s just wrong. Funny as hell, but just…ROFL!!!!
Anyhow, gotta bail for a while, but I’m in agreement with everyone. The House is not enough. We need to win the whole friggin’ thing! PERIOD!
darkblack @ 188
Perhaps I have misunderstood the above but IMHO… We could do the american ideal no greater dishonor if we just hold our nose… close our eyes and abandon our moral compass also ?
Not me…Thankyou.
Larry
Puting Dems in office is only step one.
Once we do that, we continue to hold their feet to the fire when they can no longer whine that ‘they can’t do anything because Repubs wont let them”.
If we kick out repubs our work is far from over.
Kicking some backbone into the weenies we elect will be the next step.
sonate @ 19
Of course Bush wouldn’t read it. But lots of other people may — such as the 70 “editorial” editors I just Spotlighted to. I sure hope others are doing the same thing. Are you?
New thread, gang.
First and foremost, we need to get the power back.
As we do that, we also need to be filtering in new voices such as those on the Act Blue page.
As we replace the old guard, the new guard will rise in seniority. We need to be vigiliant, active and not lose sight that this will take time.
Larry @ 195
Perhaps I have misunderstood the above…But it is my humble opinion that refusal to ‘hold one’s nose’ in this matter (If by ‘holding one’s nose’ you infer that voting for your local Democratic party representative is an odious act, and would prefer to withold your vote entirely) is akin to having it surgically removed to spite one’s own face.
Frankly, unless you desire to live in a burgeoning theocratic fascist dictatorship with liberty and justice for those on the Right side of the line, I fail to see the operable choices available.
Perhaps you might illuminate us.
EPU’d I know, but I wanted thank Peterr at 171: You said it exactly right.
“Fencing. Fighting. Torture. Poison. True love. Hate. Revenge. Giants. Hunters. Bad men. Good men. Beautifulest ladies. Snakes. Spiders. Beasts of all natures and descriptions. Pain. Death. Brave men. Coward men. Strongest men. Chases. Escapes. Lies. Truths. Passion. Miracles.”
(And there is FDL, with the Beautifulest Ladies and the Strongest Men.)
RevDeb @ 189
You will know me from the smoking crater, Rev.
;>)
Millineryman @ 192
What a kind compliment..Thank you.
Ranyne,
I have been looking at Senator Stabenow’s websites and checking her voting record. Stabenow has had very little to say about Iraq. She was there in June and said (in an mp3 file) that security is the main concern there.
She has previously voted to restrict habeas for non-citizens.
Status of Detainees Substitute Amendment
She seems more pre-occupied with Toronto’s trash (currently beong shipped to MI dump sites) than about anything else.
I have not heard her take a stand on the Iraq war. She voted for the Military Commissions Act yesterday. I sent a long letter explaining how disappointed and disgusted I am with her vote. Her statement Stabenow on Military Commisions Act is lame.
Just noticed that the statement is *gone* from her site.
here it is anyway:
“There is nothing more important than keeping America safe from those who would cause us harm. It is critical that we have a system in place to handle enemy combatants in the war on terror and bring them to justice, which is why I supported this legislation. If we had not passed this bill, our military would not have been able to move forward with trials against suspected terrorists now in U.S. custody. I voted for a number of amendments that would have strengthened this bill, and I will continue to work with my colleagues to make these improvements. ”
I am really going to have a hard time voting for her.
What do we do? Bouchard (her opponent on 11/7) is not an option.
I don’t see how Woodwank can make his second “critical” book jive with his first which was a quart of Bush slobber.
hpshcd at 203 — the only thing that I can tell you is what I told an Ohio reader yesterday as well. The votes by several this week were disappointing, to put it mildly. But Paul Wellstone once voted for the Defense fo Marriage Act — which was also disappointing to me, but the whole of his record overcame that one issue for me in terms of support. You have to look in your own heart and ethics, what is important to you, and look at the totality of someone’s record — and whatever explanation they may or may not have for a particular vote — and then decide what is best for you.
If you don’t feel that you can work for a particular candidate, then there are plenty of others who could still use help at the local, state and federal level. The important thing between now and November is to do something to get someone elected who is working toward what you think is best for the nation. I think that is all any of us can really do.
From WaPo:
FDL legal eagles: putting aside the conjunctive ‘and‘ (not to mention the generality ‘anti-U.S. hostilities’) is there an applicable bright-line legal standard for the adjective “materially”? Or, is this a vagary useful for making an example out of a few dissenters?
.
BobbyG — generally “materially” is used for aiding ot abetting through cash or other means (such as gifts of items, e.g. a getaway car, etc.) which further the criminal scheme. Does that help? (I’d have to comb back through the definitions section on the legislation to get the exact intended meaning here, though.)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 208
OK, so, now on to “anti-U.S. hostilities.”
Yeah, cool, thanks, I found it in Title 18-
look at the picture in the NYT that the link about Woodward leads to
Bush’s chair must be set higher than the rest because his head is higher than the others
Is this stagecraft of is King George demanding that his head is always above everyone else
It’ can’t be an accident
If this is what they spend their time thinking about, no wonder we are in such a mess
Pachacutec @
51
There’s another way to look at Glenn Greenwald’s two choices (i.e., toss in your chips and get out of the game, or keep on trucking praying that you’ll fill your inside straight on the draw). The door to the room in which the game is being played is locked and you have no choice to sit this puppy out. Ante up and deal zee cardzzzzzzz.
I don’t know about the rest of you but I don’t have the option of moving to a foreign land. I’ll probably look into the option, just to be sure, but I think it’ll take more money than I have and, without a job lined up, I doubt that I’d be welcome. At least I can speak and write a foreign language, which is a fortunate position to be in.
So, I guess the only option is to pick-up my sorry ass off the floor and resume the battle as if my life depends on the outcome, which unfortunately, it does.
If you get knocked down, redouble your efforts. Don’t forget that some people in this world are willing to strap on a vest stuffed with explosives. We’re nowhere near that desperate, yet. Still, there’s no denying that we’ve grown fat and too many of us have forgotten Che Guevarra’s stirring words, “In revolution, one wins or one dies.”
Ain’t no doubt about it, it’s going to take a revolution to take back our country. Of course, we have to try to take it back peacefully and lawfully — at first. That would be the November election. As I’ve been chirping lately, however, I don’t think any of us should take for granted that we’ll have an election. If, for some reason we do, it certainly won’t be fair because Diebold will see to that.
It might not be a bad idea to start thinking about the kind of firearm you’d like to have and learn how to use it. I’m not saying that anyone has to do that, but you ought to think about it. While you’re at it you just might want to think about what you’re going to do if the naked chimperor nukes Iran in late October, declares a national emergency, cancels the election, and starts rounding up and disappearing dissenters.
I don’t know about you folks, but I feel that all of this has happened to set the stage for the October surprise. The naked chimperor has been following Hitler’s script pretty closely so I feel a putsch coming on. (Hope I spelled it right)
It doesn’t take a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows.
Note to President:
I won’t challenge you with messy details, just one inconvenient fact.
These Democrats are the elected representatives of millions of Americans.
As President you are required to deal with elected Democrats with respect.
You are the President of all Americans, not just your base.
Materially is defined as follows in 18 USC 2339A(b)(1), which has to do with providing material support for terrorism:
(b) Definitions.–As used in this section–
(1) the term “material support or resources” means any property, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who may be or include oneself), and transportation, except medicine or religious materials;
Mason – You did spell putsch correctly. However, Hitler’s putsch failed; the Nazi’s were handed power in an obstensibly legal vote by the parlaiment (the Enabling Act).
Also, Goebels joined the Nazi party in 1924, and Hitler’s attempted putsch was in 1923, so I am not sure how Goebels was involved in writing the Nazi’s “script” at the time.
Purposefully is defined two ways, depending on whether a person acts purposefully with regard to a material element of an offense (a conscious object to engage in conduct of that nature, or to cause such a result), or a person acts purposefully with regard to an attendant circumstance of the offense (a person is aware of the attendant circumstance when he acts, or he hopes or believes that it exists).
Evil Parallel Universe @ 216
Thanks, I was referring to the night when Hitler sent his bullies out into the night to kill 60 or 70 of his enemies, including one of his supposed friends, a dude named Rohm, who was the head of the brownshirts, I think. Please correct me, if I’m wrong. I’m trying to drag this stuff back onto the desktop that is my brain, such as it is. Well, at least it isn’t the dreaded blue screen.
AW, DO WE REALLY REALLY HAFTA SHINE OUR SHOES AND SALUTE SAYING HI-EL-DUMYA.
SHEEEESH!
Mason – A putsch is a “coup d’etat” – a military takeover of a government.
My advice is to stop with the repug as Nazi analogies. They’re not Nazi’s – and they don’t have to be to be reprehensible or guilty of alleged crimes.
Well, I’m not convinced and I’m kind of playing around trying to inject a bit of humor into this mess, but I’ll cool it with the nazi comparisons, unless I start seeing more plays from their playbook.
Seeg–Hi-El-Dumya.
It’s kinda rollin easier off my tongue.
Holy Sigma Chi, Batman.
Mason @ 219
It’s always appropriate to mention Bush and Nazis. Much of the Bush family fortune came from the Third Reich.
Talk about the blind leading the blind: We’re ruled by a delusional ideologue, and his followers are even worse. Talki about failing your way to success. If you’re that far out of touch with reality, you need extraordinary powers just to keep one step ahead of the law. His congressional enablers — a Roll Call Hall of Shame — were quick to oblige.
Still, Woodward’s book may mark a turning point. You know things are bad when the court stenographer starts to bite the hand that has been feeding him.
darkblack @ 201
Heres my illumination….
In this case… Your greater good reasoning does not float with me…perhaps because I have seen the results of torture…up close and personal. Be that as it may…YES I would rather have my nose surgically removed than cast a vote for or support…now or in the future.. in any fashion… any democrat who voted in favor of this odious bill.
Perhaps now, you will illuminate for us all why anyone could support someone who says its ok to torture your daughter or son, or wife or mother… etc….?
Larry
Read Gitta Sereny’s “Albert Speer and His Battle With Truth.” It will explain all about this administration. History doesn’t repeat itself, human nature does.