
Slapfight in the right wing blogosphere(™StBK)!!!
Dean Esmay confuses pique with principle and lashes out at Michelle Malkin for being a bigot.
Yeah, I know. Let me know when you’re done…
Got it under control?
Good. Let’s examine. The entry begins with the headline Question for Michelle Malkin: Does the Conscience of a Conservative Still Exist?
Interesting question, Professor. You’re the bozo that thinks torture is a good idea. You tell me.
::UPDATE:: Mea Culpa. Dean is not a torture advocate . It would be intellectually dishonest of me not to correct this, having been informed of this. He’s still a jackass, just a NUANCED jackass.
First paragraph:
I’m publicly calling out Michelle Malkin, someone whom I often disagree with but usually respect. I hope she will think about it and respond thoughtfully and not angrily or flippantly.
Good luck with that Dean. Seriously.
As the President likes to say, "Now watch how I set up this strawman…" (or something like that)
This very statement–that Islam is incompatible with democracy–is why I fight so hard with many of my friends on the Right: accepting that statement means we have to declare war on the entire Muslim world if we’re to hope for human freedom to survive.
It’s so much more fun to talk about the WAR FOR HUMAN FREEDOM than to worry about things like the water bill, I am guessing. I should try it more often… HUUUUUMMMMMAAAAAANNN FREEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMM!!!
Ahem. Sorry. What were we talking about? Oh, right, Right Wing bloggers and their penchant for drowning their arguments in phrases that ring like the titles of Somerset Maugham books instead of what’s really on their minds. I’ll translate: "You racist crackers are really starting to embarrass me." There. Wasn’t that simple?
Then Dean says something that almost ALMOST makes sense:
There are some on the Right who believe this. But I think they’re badly hurting our efforts. I think such people on the Right are hurting the war effort and not helping it.
I suppose such anti-Islam statements must add some moral clarity: oh, Muslims are the enemy. So let’s just fight the Muslims. But that means you want to fight well over a billion people found in over 100 countries around the globe. Including people in America’s armed forces who are serving with honor and distinction right now.
Declaring war on a fifth of the world’s population? A bad idea? Why Dean! You sound like some kind of hippie peacenik moonbat! How nice for you!
Of course, the funny thing about Dean is that… even when he’s almost right, he’s so… so very wrong…
I will note again, as I often have, that during World War II there were Filipinos who were ethnically Japanese and who spoke Japanese, but who allied with us against the Japanese Empire. Fought and in some cases died alongside our boys in the South Pacific. Some of them were even United States citizens, and served invaluable roles as translators and in propaganda efforts (and "propaganda" is not a necessarily a dirty word by the way).
Furthemore the Chinese, as much as they "looked Japanese" to American eyes, were also welcome allies against Tojo’s Japan.
See? This is what passes for a moment of clarity in Dean’s world- What he’s saying is Even Though They all Look Alike… THEY’RE NOT ALL ALIKE!!!
HOLY SHIT, DEAN! CALL THE MSM!!!!
I have a very funny mental picture of Dean at this moment of deep insight. I’ll keep it to myself, so as to spare the rest of you the horror… However, I do wonder… once you’ve dropped a Moon Pie into the carpet, can you rinse the fuzz off, or is it a goner?
(By the way, I love that "our boys" shit. It’s so Patton-esque. That’s Dean: the Moon Pie Patton.)
I think that many of America’s rightists–including, sadly, Michelle Malkin–have done a piss-poor job of making such vital distinctions. Indeed, I would like to publicly challenge Michelle Malkin: you’ve said you’ve stopped using terms like "Islamo-fascist" and "Islamic radicals" because they don’t make sense.
Well, now… see? A moment of civility in discourse between me and that Malkin woman. "Islamo-fascist" doesn’t make any sense? I concur completely. That’s because it’s some stupid shit some simpleton like Charles Johnson made up, however, not because, as Malkin apparently asserts, it creates a false distinction.
I’m making an open appeal to your conscience, Michelle Malkin, and to the conscience of conservatives everywhere: shouldn’t you start making a distinction between Muslims who hate us and want to kill us, and Muslims who believe in freedom, democracy, and religious tolerance?
Well, that seems reasonable. (Except for that whole Michelle Malkin having a conscience part.) However, I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.
We could stop there, but the next paragraph has a real howler in it. You sitting down? OK.
And yes, I call myself a liberal, although I voted for Bush twice and have been an avowed Hawk since 9/11. I hate terrorists and giggle like a schoolgirl when one of them dies.
Well, I could call myself a duck, but if I didn’t quack and fly south for the winter then there’s going to be a little credibility gap when I start to run my mouth.
Also, I find the "giggl[ing] like a schoolgirl" bit a kind of curious admission. Once again, I am going to spare you the horror of my vision, dear reader, but… I just hope he "feels pretty on the inside" when he does that. Don’t worry, though, he rounds it out with some Big Toughguy Talk:
our enemies need to be hunted down and killed without remorse or pity. If we capture them alive, then we should extract the maximum possible information from them, so as to help round up and capture or kill their fellow terrorists.
YAAAAAAARRRR!!! I’m a big tough pirate, YARRR!!! (I love this game. Let’s all be BIG AND STRONG, now, by TALKING LIKE TOUGH GUYS.) Hey, Dean. Put up or shut up big guy. Otherwise, resume the position underneath your bed.
As we race across the blogosphere(™StBK) to see the milk of human kindness flow from Michelle’s tear ducts as she admits the error of her many conflations and distortions, we, uh… wait… oops… Hm…. Another well-intentioned (but terribly ham-fisted) cry for Reason on the Right falls flat. Because, y’know, Michelle? She ain’t having no bitch-ass third tier blogger putting shame in her game . No, sir.
This post by Dean Esmay, "calling out Michelle Malkin," is what is known in the business as traffic bait.
So go ahead and click it and give Esmay more of the traffic he wants. I highly recommend you read his post as the classic blogospheric example of how not to argue about Islam.
Or anything else, for that matter.
Well, "esmay" is Pig Latin for "mess," if you want to talk that foreigner talk.
She then uses Dean’s own words to paint him as an unhinged, flailing and meanspirited asshole. (Hey, I know that guy! It’s the Dean Esmay we all know and love! …or something!) That part is kinda fun. It’s all from his comments section, I believe. He should be along here shortly in our comments to provide more of the same spittle-flecked entertainment.
Malkin continues:
There is a grown-up debate to be had about the incompatibility of fundamental tenets of Islam and liberal democracies, and about the prospects for reform in the Muslim world
Translation: "Don’t worry, I am still a bigot."
Max Boot makes a histrionics-free go at it in the LA Times,
Why do I doubt that ?
I make no apologies for highlighting the horrors of sharia law, criticizing creeping dhimmitude, and citing the work of outspoken and brave critics of Islam–Muslim and non-Muslim alike. (Speaking of which, don’t miss Jihad Watch at Hot Air TV today.)
Because, honest to g-d, you KNOW HOW THOSE PEOPLE ARE.
This is like watching one of those bum fight videos, isn’t it? I think that the most horrifying thing about Bum Fights, and they are truly a blight on American culture, is that the homeless people in the videos are motivated to attack each other over five or ten bucks… Their tragic and desperate situations in life have put them in a position where they really can’t refuse a couple of sorry dollars to try and maim the other homeless guy across the street.
Hey, wait a minute…
What was it Upton Sinclair said about making someone understand something that their paycheck depends upon them NOT understanding?
Michelle feeds her racist and crypto-fascist constituency the red meat of xenophobia, and poor, confused Dean Esmay sticks his addled head up to the bars of the cage and screams "Go VEGETARIAN! No, really!"
Not likely, Esman. Ain’t gonna happen. There’s too much bile, rage and money to be made by hating on "those dirty muslims," so you should probably just go back to parsing NPR transcripts for more ANTI-AMERICAN BIAS, and stop picking fights with your (nominal) allies over whether or not Gunga Din can be trusted.



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FDL!
The Roman empire tortured Jesus. He was not allowed to see the evidence or his accusers. He supposedly “confessed”…they killed that man.
They will torture someone into saying something about Iran. My kids will be fighting to allow Bush et al to keep the 30 pieces of silver they got for selling us out.
Godwin’s law repealed by Senate!!
Bush=Hitler
Republicans=Nazis
Always look on the bright side of life.
Damnit, I’m getting some sake, anyone else need some?
Oh, and because it needed saying: CRIPPLE FIGHT!!!!!
CRIPPLE FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!
TRex @ 5
I think you technically beat me to that, though I was editing while you were posting ;0)
Sorry, everybody. I got a really good phone call from my friend in New Orleans. She sold her ruined house to someone who is going to restore it and she’s really happy. It’s going to enable her to put a down payment on a new house.
That’s the first really good news I’ve heard from New Orleans in a really long time.
you think Patrick is still upright or did he snooze off in the chair?
still right here, OC, hoping that having a laugh is cheering folks up a little.
Wanna read about media manipulation and moles – and omg its on an ABC blog linked at HuffPo. What the hell this is years ago and you got CIA, VP, POTUS Daddy Bush who not only works out selling drugs, arming Iran, etc, etc. but then uses (CIA) moles inside the media to get the advance word on tough questions (you know, questions on traitorous crimes) and has a guy with cue cards setup the entire confrontation. Yeah, they guy that’s crying foul on Clinton not “swatting flies” but taking swift action to crush Wallace like a rat.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thewo…..assau.html
Was it an assault?
ABC’s Robert Garcia blogs about the latest chapter in Pres. Clinton vs. Fox News:
On January 25th, 1988, it was Ailes who, sitting five feet away from then Vice President George H.W. Bush in his Senate office in the Capitol building, literally used cue cards to help orchestrate the now-famous Bush confrontation with Dan Rather over the Iran/Contra affair.
…
But the slam at Rather occurred only after Bush feigned surprise at his tough questioning. We know it was feigned because in an interview with ABC’s Sam Donaldson in 2000, Bush himself, admitted that the GOP had a mole on the inside at CBS who gave them advance word of the questions Rather was going to ask.
As our righty penpal Leon H. Wolf so succinctly put it in today’s Whither Schlessinger? thread… ‘When your opponent starts an internecine war, you don’t rush in to help them out; you grab the popcorn.’
Butter? Cheddar-Chipotle?
;>)
yup… laughing is a Very Good Thing!
is your whole family funny?
OldCoastie @ 12
You have no idea how valid that question really is.
TRex @ 12
somethin’ told me it might be
;-)
OldCoastie @
12
Both of our grandfathers were gentle, funny men who told great stories. Our father is also a wonderful story teller, but mostly makes us tell all the funny stuff at family gatherings.
The women in our family tend to be assertive, sometimes very serious and The Responsible Ones.
It works out pretty well.
Actually, that is one of the only regrets I have about my childhood. I really wish sometimes that my folks had had more kids. Brothers and sisters.
Don’t get me wrong, being a twin RULES, but it’s not really like having a whole slew of siblings. As it was, we were kind of under a microscope a lot. The Freakishly Intelligent Red-Haired Twins routine could wear you slap out.
all righty! tomorrow is Friday! Friday! Friday! and I’m ready for the weekend, but for now I need a little sleep…
g’night, pups… rest up, eat your wheaties – tomorrow is another day.
TRex @ 16
Especially when only one of the twins is ACTUALLY freakishly intelligent.
He still gets mad at me for coasting.
g’night right back attachya Old Coastie.
TRex- so, comments are still coming in on your Late Nite. Even tho you and Patrick are twins, maybe err… you could space the birth time out a bit more in future. Ah, never mind. I guess the Freakishly Intelligent RHTs have their own ways…
TRex @ 15
I’ve got identical twin boys (both characters) who were in different kindergarten classes last year… took me awhile to figure out that there were 2 of ‘em… I thought maybe a couple teachers were passing “the boy” back and forth in the afternoons just because “he” was a bit of a handful…
I imagine your house on the holidays is quite the riot.
So we’re going to be having wingnuts in the audience tonight? Dang, can’t pass them a vegetarian snack, can we?
But I hear if you heat termites they pop like popcorn and taste like shrimp.
A liberal huh? Don’t that beat everything!
I guess it could be true depending on where he is standing at the moment.
Like a smidgen to the left of Adolf (but to the right of Rev. Falwell).
Sure, you betcha! That qualifies him as a liberal in my book.
And of course, we will proceed to get all misty-eyed and gay while we join in singin’ Kumbaya with our newest BFF.
/schoolgirl giggle off
Mad Dogs- hope you saw my comment to you on previous thread re: cynical/ black humor. Short version- I understand.
TRex @ 5
I would have gotten there… nothing like Timmeh and Jimmy having at it. (I still laugh over the episode when Timmeh photoshops Jimmy’s head into a kiddie porn picture with the pedophile Boy Scout leader and Jimmy is expelled from the Boy Scouts). Anyway, I was too busy savoring the piece and laughing hysterically to point out…cripple fight.
Thank you Patrick – laughing feels much better than crying or feeling like sick.
This piece is a classic. It ranks right up there.
dab from CT @ 25
Glad to be of service.
“Moon Pie Patton” is my favorite part.
“The Moon Pie Patton”.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
We may have to follow this little blog war as it unfolds. They’re both such despicable characters. It’s like, “I don’t care who wins, as long as ONE of them loses!!”
Valley Girl @ 24
I coitenly did (in my best Curly imitation)!
I am falling-over exhausted (for nonpolitical reasons I didn’t get much sleep last night), but I wanted to cheer up the firepups with this profile of Neal K. Katyal, the lawyer who argued Hamdan, from my alumni magazine.
As a bonus, it’s written by Dan Froomkin! (Who I didn’t know was an alum, otherwise I’d have given him the secret handshake when I met him at YKos *g*)
TRex @ 27
As Musharraf said on the Daily Show the other night: “They’re both going to lose terribly.”
It’s hard not to pull for Dean a little- he’s the underdog here, and like I said, he’s ALMOST about to break through and make a little sense, then there’s a puff of smoke, the circuit fries and the dumbassitude come crashing back in.
Well, that explains why Mishy isn’t part of the dialogue.
Mad Dogs @ 27
Thanks. FDL is about “irreverence”, or at least that is one sustaining feature.
Thanks for the posts, TRex and Patrick
I hate to break this to y’all, but:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01281.html
Sunday elections will be held in Austria.
Shorter Dean Esmay: “I feel pretty…oh, so pretty…I feel pretty and witty and gaaaaaaaayyyyyyy…”
Patrick @ 26
For me, it was “I could call myself a duck…”
Hee hee!
EvilDrPuma @ 31
Heh, classic wingnut. Translation: “We can bat around the finer points of how I’m right and call it a debate.”
EvilDrPuma @
35
What do you suppose he tells his wife about why her underthings are so stretched out?
OK, time for me to tag out and leave you nice folks to it.
Hope everyone had a laugh at these buffoons’ expense.
I sure did.
I can’t wait to see what sort of nastiness they’ve cooked up for each other tomorrow.
Make popcorn, someone.
Patrick @ 39
I predict:
Esmay will roar on about it until he’s thoroughly shat the bed while MalKKKin tries to pretend she’s not reading EVERY SINGLE WORD.
The question is whether he’ll be adroit enough (I know, fat chance) to really push one of her buttons and make her lose it.
Oooooh. I just had a really mean idea.
TRex @ 37
hmmm… as we’ve seen in the past, many of these Repuglican women have very large asses, so it may not be a local issue in their household.
TRex @ 38
“See, honey, there was this enormous half-Nephilim giant, and all I had was your lacy bra and a baseball…”
Valley Girl @ 41
Hey, now.
I am trying to figure out how to raise a gentle yet principled objection to that statement without IMMEDIATELY quoting Sir Mix-a-lot…
Killer post, Patrick. The “moon pie” Patton. That will be remembered.
TRex- LOL. Thanks for that after my days in DSL hell. I needed a good laugh.
Hi All…. need some advice…. had a nasty argument with my Dad (83yrs) last night… he has been drinking the Lou Dobbs Kool-aid…. but insisted that illegal immigrants in the old USA was a worse problem than the loss of habeas corpus (I do not think he believed me that we were going to loose it) ….. how do I try to tell someone who only depends on the traditional media for information, has dial up only and I bombarded them with a ton of the posts from all over today via email….my Dad is one of my best friends….
Patrick @ 43
Linky please?
Heh, heh, heh, I’ll bet you did. ;)
The laughs are much appreciated, especially today. There’s nothing like a righty blogspat to cheer me up.
But I’m still getting drunk tonight.
Heh, heh, heh, I’ll bet you did. ;)
You know what I’m talking about, don’t you?
katymine- you may be fighting a losing battle on that account. My dad was the same, tho he died 12 years ago. The only good I can take from the way he voted, and his general ideas, was that at least he was kind to me, whereas my mother (hates BushCo.) wasn’t. Just try to learn more about where his ideas come from, because he may be soon gone- that’s all I can say at this point.
TRex @
49
I could guess, but you always surprise me by being much more creative than me, so I’ll wait.
Oh… my… God… Becky, look at her butt, it is SOOOO big!
Valley Girl @ 48
My pleasure. The song is called Baby Got Back, and the first verse says it all:
“I like big butts and I can not lie
You other brothers can’t deny
That when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waste
And a round thing in your face
You get sprung”
I am just saying- don’t tar all of the posteriorly gifted with the Thuglican brush.
katymine @
46
At 83, there’s not much you can tell him. Funny thing about old people, they’re kinda set in their ways.
If you really want to do this, try talking to him about the magna carta and the reasons why the founding fathers set up this country to be better than the monarchies of Europe. Gently.
If it doesn’t work, take a deep breath and switch the topic to sports or gardening or something you two won’t argue over. Good luck.
Ugh, I have to go give Juan Carlos a pill.
Grumble. This is always an adventure.
VG… I come from good Democrat stock… Dad’s family were those that particpated in the Flint MI sitdown strike in 1936. They live in Oregon and was so shocked that they had sucked up all the Dobbs hate, considering their two grandchildren are imigrants (adopted from Korea).
I was just surprised….
BTW …. TRex… you can ask my daughter about how much fun it is to have too many siblings…. after we had the 5 boys & 1 girl, she put her foot down… “MOM… no more boys!”, since my kids were adopted or foster kids I can pick their sex!
TRex @ 56
Good luck with that, pilling my kitties is always a two-person affair.
OK, f’real this time. Going to sleep. I have to work in the morning.
Night, all.
Nite Patrick…. thanks for the post
Oddly enough, it went down fairly easy this time.
This morning, though, lord GOD! He spat and foamed and kicked and squirmed. At one point I got the pill in his mouth and he did that thing where it appears to go down and then “ptui!” out it pops again. Except it went into his ear. And disappeared!
So, then I was shaking his head trying to make the pill fall out…
Ah, yes. Good times.
TRex @ 16
After seeing that picture of Patrick with his two dogs last night, I have to say that either he looks absolutely nothing like you, TRex [60 ft. Therapod] or else those are two mighty big dogs.
katymine @ 59
What she said.
Patrick @ 53
Patrick- Thanks for the link. But, well, I was perhaps too subtle, as I said “asses” and not “butts”. Although I am a skinny person, I have always thought that larger women can be/ are entirely attractive, speaking in a heterosexual way, of course. As Jane has said in times before in her posts, when calling out Rebuglican women for being “ugly”, it has to do with the soul inside.
night, you guys.
They’re big dogs.
;-)
TRex @ 63
?
TRex @ 61
Poor thing! Mine always pull the “hide the pill” trick, too. I usually keep massaging the throat awhile after it *seems* gone just to be sure.
It’s a new adjective.
There’s fugly and then there’s Repugly.
angie @ 33
Does Republican Majority Leader John Boehner get a boehner when he thinks about torture?
katymine @ 46
I wouldn’t argue with him about which is worse, and just settle for agreeing that abolishing habeas corpus is bad.
Then go with showing how the Rovians have ginned up “the immigration issue” for election purposes while (as usual) doing nothing effective about it. That the only reason people are coming is to get jobs, and the only effective way to deal with it is to go after the employers, but the Bushies won’t do that because those guys are their contributors. So they rant about fences and pretend it’s about “security” so they give more of your money to Halliburton to do things no one believes will work.
Since he has a good Democratic/labor background, you can also talk about how those employers are exploiting illegal immigrant labor to keep wages down, and how the EU avoided the feared huge influx of poor immigrant labor from their new members by doing real economic development in those countries, but all we got was lip service and NAFTA (= more exploitation for Mexican workers.)
I’m just daydreaming now, but wouldn’t it be awesome if the first act the next President did upon being sworn in was to take out a warrant for Bush’s arrest? To be extradited to the Hague?
Simple answers to simple questions:
TRex @ 71
Yes.
Or maybe I’d rather see Bush tried right here in the US.
TRex @ 70
We may have to depend on a President/ PM from another country to do that. Everything is being “outsourced” now.
Extradited to Pakistan.
EvilDrPuma @
35
Happened to hit this one just as someone on the radio was talking about a return to the Great American Songbook. Ah, serendipity.
bdu @ 71
Do you really want to sacrifice the lives of secret servicemen. Unlike Gore, the cowardly Shrub will never give up his detail. On second thought, maybe they’ll just stand back and say here ya go.
Interesting tidbit from the NYT:
And while the House has passed a “Domestic Wiretapping without a Warrant” bill, all reports continue to say that even if a competing version squeaks through the Senate, there still isn’t time left to iron out the differences in conference.
Thank heaven for small favors!
TRex @ 71
I really like that one…. my other one is about Ashcroft getting some disease that would make him want to use the Oregon assisted suicide law but since he is Not a resident of Oregon…. he can’t!
I know it is a nasty thought and I am a nurse but then…. I really do not think purgatory is a bad enough place for all these guys.
TRex @ 70
Not just awesome, but exquisite.
‘Call yourself a liberal’, but ‘…a Hawk since 9/11′, eh?
Nothing like a little blut und donner to put some starch in those wishy-washy drawers.
It was the Cold War that did it to me…Growing up knowing that global death might be 25 minutes away. Little things like ragtag militias stopped bothering me after that. Evidently, they stopped bothering George W. Bush as soon as he took office, too.
Speaking of him, ‘voted for Bush’ in 2000 and 2004, you say?
Must’ve been those misty doe eyes and soft, lily white hands that got you pulling the lever.
Of course, like the vast majority of humanity, you probably regret that decision now…”He’s a playboy, bound to break your heart’, as they say.
From giggling schoolgirl to lovelorn lassie in so short a time…Qu’elle tragique.
But once a Bush voter, always a Bush voter. Just like wearing a burning petrol-filled tire around your neck…It’s for the rest of your life.
On second thought, maybe they’ll just stand back and say here ya go.
You know he’s got ass-y little nicknames for all of them. If they’re bald, he touches their heads. They probably hate him.
This, from Glenn Greenwald, expresses one of the puzzlements I have about Harry Reid’s difficult-to-explain leadership on the Torture Bill effort:
Maybe I’m being too hard on Harry, but I can’t understand giving up a big win that requires 41 votes for a totally unsatisfactory partial win that requires 51 votes.
Yes, I understand that he had been told that he didn’t have the 41 votes. But that’s where moral intimidation has to come into play. It’s called “leadership”.
drouse @ 77
The Secret Service falls under control of the executive. It’s hard to say where their loyalty would lie at that point, the current executive (calling for the arrest) or the former (the person they are tasked to protect).
TRex @ 72
I’d rather see Bush tried in The Hague. However, if a US trial is the way to restore our credibility world-wide (assuming we ever had that to any degree) I would go for a US trial. But, I doubt that this would have the same effect. Better that he is tried in The Hague, whilst the US sits by and allows this to happen. Oh, Bush= BushCo. He’s not the only malefactor.
The Hague is best… afterall… Bush has F**ked the whole world with his policies. Actually, if John Dean is right… it is Cheney who is President and Bush is just “allowed to wake up every morning to think he is President”
TRex @ 67
Did you have to do that?
That is downright UGHLY.
katymine @ 85
God. Just once, I want to see that bastard in handcuffs being prodded along with the butt of a gun.
OT ~ Only ONE shopping day left to help NED before the cutoff: http://nedlamont.com/blog/1576/open-thread
TRex @ 87
Even better, the arresting officer saying “watch your head” as he slams it into the raingutter while putting him in the car.
bdu @ 83
Er, they’re not a praetorian guard. Their job is to protect him from harm, not blindly obey him. If an ex-president is charged with a crime, they’re not going to protect him from arrest.
katymine @
85
I read recently of a law passed early in the GWB presidency that forbade us from turning any U.S. official over to an international tribunal and promised to invade any country that attempted to try a U.S. official under international law. (I don’t remember the details.)
There is no statute of limitations on war crimes and crimes against humanity. Some also hold to doctrine of universal jurisdiction, i.e., any nation can try someone for such crimes.
One of the more interesting cases was that of Eichmann, who was kidnapped from Argentina by Israel for crimes that were not on Israeli soil, against Israeli citizens, or during the existence of Israel as a state. Obviously, his crimes were against members of the dominant religion in Israel. But by that principle, every Moslem country would have such perpetual juristiction over a number of members of the Bush Administration.
I agree that I’d rather him in the Hague, if only to show that America does respect international law. That, and I think there are a few million Iraqis who’d find it hard to believe that an American trial wouldn’t be a whitewash. No, I don’t know where they’d get that silly idea either.
drouse @ 89
Perfect.
He should really prefer the Hague. Unlike us, the rest of the civilized world doesn’t have the death penalty
Mad Dogs @ 77
It’s been a few weeks, and I’ve slept a couple of times since then, but wasn’t a part of Judge Taylor’s underlying ruling that the program was an unreasonable search/seizure? Even if Congress passes a law authorizing the program, it’s still going to come up against the Fourth Amendment.
Nite all. Time to turn into a pumpkin.
Hey, I’ve got a riddle for you.
What’s the difference between 40,000 Iraqi civilians and six million jews?
60 years.
Wigwam @ 91
Wow! What an idea. Truly. I am ever struck by the range of knowledge provided by FDL posters, and by perspectives anew. This is certainly in the category “what goes around comes around”. Hope you don’t think I am trivializing your comment- far from it.
TTRex @ 98
It is worse than that… one is brown…
Persiflage @
92
That would be my preference if forced to choose—but are we? Given the national record in graft his administration is setting, surely there are non-war crimes he could be charged for here.
By the way, so far as the moral abyss of this White House is concerned, I suspect even Cheney doesn’t top the Occupant.
See, it’s things like this that make you wonder about them. Why do that? Somehow I don’t think it was just because of Kissinger, considering the source.
TRex @
97
Ouch! I have a post, by now EPU’d, sitting in the last thread awaiting moderation for the past two hours. And I didn’t say anything half that politically incorrect. ;-)
Wigwam @ 102
Is that politically incorrect? Oh, shit! I haven’t been watching the mod queue at all.
My apologies.
Let me go see if I can spring you.
I heard tonight that Kissinger has been visiting the Wh since 2003, if that is the case, he has been advising them for years on how to counter the Vietnam syndrome.
It is no wonder why it is stay the course with Kissinger in the house!
Redshift @
90
He’d better hope they’re not the Praetorian Guard. Look at what they did to Caligula.
TRex- I already sprung the comment. Should I put it back in mod so that you can look at it?
Oh, Wigwam. It was the word AIPAC. That had to be put in the mod filter because it always results in people getting their backs up and snarling at each other.
It’s weird.
prostratedragon @ 102
Now that you mention it, I vaguely recall that it was a response to the establishment of the International Court of Justice. It might have been about the time that Pinochet was arrested in London with a view to extraditing him to Spain. It may never happen but it’s such a nice dream.
TRex @ 107
TRex- not so weird, because there have been some ugly exchanges in the past on this issue. It is a difficult issue. Thankfully, this is still something that can be discussed here, but with due caution. If there is a flamer, things get ugly very quickly. In large measure, for the ability for FDLers to continue to discuss Israel/ Palestine etc. (a topic banned on several other blogs) we have to thank ET (Ed*ard Teller) who has lead the way in providing thoughtful comments and discussion.
Persiflage @
108
Here is a lead, but it doesn’t go as far as what a previously read:
http://www.worldpolicy.org/glo…..H-ICC.html
Would anyone like something to look forward to in the coming weeks?
Abramoff deadline.
This should light a fire under everyone’s asses in this case and get the various investigations in high gear. Sure they could talk to him while he’s in prison, but it’ll be a pain.
Honestly, I’d thought they would have spent a lot more time with Jack than seven days. Since March? Ah, what the hell do I know about huge federal investigations?
OT (sorta)
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO68fUMWx3g
…especially if they look like the US Gov’t.
Anyone who did not catch me blogwhoring … but want the truth about ESPN & the NOLA game go here
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..175136/951
My boyfriend just sent me more on that, he recieved this question:
Katymine is in moderation … again…
katymine- prolly bec. of the # of paragraphs. spam filter is crazy, sometimes. You have been sprung. F5 to reload page.
Alright then. My eyes are getting bleary and my back hurts from hunching over my computer.
You kids have a nice night. Be good.
Good night.
Ok, I’m tired and kind of drunk, so I’ll call it a night.
Rest well, firepups, we have much work to do before Nov. 7th.
Thanks VG
katymine @ 118
My pleasure.
TRex @
107
The Lobby is a serious force in U.S. politics, e.g., it is one of Lieberman’s main sources of strength. It’s a shame that its influence can’t be discussed, except by paleoconservative and liberatarians, e.g., antiwar.com.
It looks like everyone has gone to bed…. see ya tomorrow…
anyone still around? anyone? anyone?
Actually, I shouldn’t quote Ben Stein, as he is a remorseless Nixon apologist bastard. But he did hold the door open for me at a book store in Studi City once, so I guess he’s not all…nah, never mind.
I am here Steve…. I heard him on Sunday Morning last Sunday and was surprised about his anti-Iraq statement…
Really? I was just making a funny, but hadn’t heard much from him lately….interesting
It still made me brisle but it was more against Iraq than anything else… How are ya Steve?
By the way, [blogwhoring], I hung out with Jane at a Ned Lamont thing here in L.A. on Tuesday night [/blogwhoring]
Wigwam- not sure you are drawing the correct conclusion here- please see my comment #109. Also see http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14334681 which was posted on a thread a while back, with no objection.
Donors say Lieberman will be well-funded
Supporters of Israel from both parties will be crucial to senator’s effort
Pretty good, trying to keep the recording industry going
Ya I do understand, trying to help truth in TeeVee and how just because you are a freelancer for ESPN does not mean you are part of the evil bastards from hell crowd…
Wigwam, if you’re still here, thanks for the Intl. Court link—the argument refreshed by memory.
And thanks, katymine, for the NOLA story. I had heard that Toussaint and Irma Thomas were going to do the anthem, but not about the other local things. Due respect to U2/Bono, Southern U. band much better for the occasion.
Valley Girl @
127
I’ve read that The Lobby doesn’t give money directly, but that they influence/direct a lot of money. I suspect that influence is in part responsible for some of the endorsements that Lieberman gets from other politicians as well.
My point is that anyone who wants to take on the Neocons and the nonprogressive democrats better know the coalition of forces they are up against. And, it appears that The Lobby is a strong component of that coalition.
prostratedragon @
130
No problem. I wish I could find a link to the article I was thinking of. It made our behavior sound really arrogant and insidious.
Jack Balkin has harsh words for the Democratic senators: http://balkin.blogspot.com/#115947101354971191
Wigwam @
91
Hope you won’t mind a comment from an occasional lurker. Those who are concerned about incursions on civil liberties might want to reexamine their enthusiasm for international tribunals. If the U.S. were to sign on to the ICC, for example, you would forfeit fundamental constitutional protections which you enjoy within our legal system to a court whose jurisdiction, as a treaty obligation, would supercede our own, whose mandate is ill-defined, intrusive and expansible, operating with oversight by none and from which there is no appeal. Indeed, in many key respects, and certainly in spirit, the ICC resembles the very sort of military tribunals which are currently the source of such anger and fear.
In the interest of full disclosure, and in relation to this community, I’m sure I hail from the right. While we may disagree over the nature and extent of what constitute constitutional abuses, I believe a president has no more right to surrender our civil liberties abroad than he does to abrogate them at home. I would simply encourage everyone to investigate the specifics for themselves, and to press past the summary arguments pro and con which proliferate on issues of international law.
There’s too much… money to be made by hating on “those dirty muslims,”
You noticed that to, eh? David Neiwert over at Orcinus has taken Malkin down a number of times. She’s obviously a racist bigot–which is odd for an American of Philippine descent.
BTW, it’s funny that Esmay’s blog is hosted by PissPoorMedia (Pajamas Media). I wonder how much they are paying him for his blo(g)viations.
I hate terrorists and giggle like a schoolgirl when one of them dies.
It occurs to me that he didn’t say “schoolboy” because it would have hit too close to home.
Good morning, firepups. I hope today brings renewed hope for all.
Two more proposals go out today, and a report. Whew! It’s been a tough week.
A nice cup of coffee and some Cheerios [they’re one of the sponsors of Keith Olbermann], then it’s off to the salt mines.
Work for peace. Work for justice. Work to elect people who will hold this rogue administration accountable. And be kind to each other, and to yourself.
It occurs to me that he didn’t say “schoolboy” because it would have hit too close to home.
The thing about the phrase is not just imagining him act out a Sly Stallone role while dressed as one of the Olsen twins, but that he is trying to make it sound as if laughing at someone dying isn’t callous enough. So he has to emphasize that he is laughing with absolutely none of the moral compunction that, say, a soldier who understands the inhumanity of war might. No, he has to choose the example that is furthest from that, saying, in effect, I dare you to try and find my moral compass! Cause I purposefully destroyed it, suckers.
Good morning all,
This can’t be good….
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/b…..631024.htm
Mornin’. What is it, Imm?
Beard, do you have coffee?
The House passed an Iran sanctions bill and is hoping the Senate will force it through before recessing.
Whew.
Found the morning crowd. I was afraid everyone had fallen into a catatonic state after yesterday.
Rainy, cold, gray here in VT this a.m.Probably how my Senator feels. But the coffee is strong at our house, so egregious, come on over!
Hey, I’ve got some good news. My mother has her picture on page one of the hometown (50k) newspaper. She is hosting several people for an international festival.
It’s a great unposed photo of a normally quiet person. She is laughing and has quite the sparkle in her eye.
DairyMaid, thanks! [blindly shuffling over, clutching bunny. holds out cup. one eye opens.]
Hi All, rolled over and got that elusive extra hour of sleep!! (It’s way better than that zero *g*) GOOD morning to each and every one of us. Stressful this past week, eh? Yeah, me too. So while the fray is still at arm’s length, take a little time to enjoy the blessings of the morning, and cast your hopes far and wide for justice and peace to prevail.
Hey Egregious! How are you?!
It’s a brisk 49 degrees where I live in GA. Has anyone visited the General’s site? http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/
I was afraid everyone had fallen into a catatonic state after yesterday.
Actually, it took this Balkin column to unfreeze me, a little.
(No, immanentize, it isn’t good—more like that old quagmire quickstep again.
Congrats on the picture, egregious, especially if it turned out to be a nice one.;)
Hey JPL-
I’ve got the Republic of Vermont right here. We’ve ceceded before…
Imm, shit never sleeps does it?
That Horowitz book practrically has the same cast of characters as today, names changed of course, and his phrasing is exquisite. Sounds so much like the same sort of wool being pulled over the eyes of the public as today. Loyalty Oaths, will they bring out the loyalty oath meme again?
Horowitz and Jerry Rubin were perceptive fellows. The latter is dead and the first was bought off. And then there was Hoffman. Also dead.
RIP Rubin and Hoffman. And now may the charismatic leader that we so deeply desire be moved to rise from the population, calling loud and wide, waking up the masses to revolution at its most kind…………
Today Show is covering Bob Woodruff’s new book. It’s suppose to be pretty damaging so be prepared for an increase the terror level.
Time for more coffee. I meant Bob Woodward. Sorry.
Shocking.
Senior British military leadership want to pull UK troops from Iraq, and put them in Afghanistan, a more strategic and winnable target:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/fron…..43,00.html
JM Haynes at 134 has an interesting comment.
Good morning FDL gang! Everyone still recovering from yesterday eh?
What a nightmare of a day. I actually sat through the whole debate. It was exhausting listening to such much crap being spewed on the floor of the Senate for hours on end.
Oh well, a new day right?
A new day indeed Zergle. Welcome to the gulag.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..63_pf.html
Morning all– just an fyi. Jennifer Senior is going to be on cspan1 at 8am discussing “her review in the September 24, 2006, New York Times Book Review of Sidney Blumenthal’s and Lewis Lapham’s books that are both critical of the Bush administration.” ahem. You can call in or email a question if you are so inclined.
From Digby:
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com…..chive.html
This one will cheer you up…Iraq Qaida calls for biological weapons
BRING MY NEPHEW HOME NOW!!
Yeah, but what Orwellian term will the right use to describe it?
Alien Vacation Retreat
Patriotic Love Station
Camp O’ Kindness
or more likely…The New American Century Camp
Sgt. 1st Class Meredith Howard
PD, it’s a blank page at Kos
The New American Century Camp for the Wayward
Don’t forget to bring your own hoodie!
TRex: I just got a newsletter from Potter Crafts featuring “Felty Trex” from Toys to Sew. Very cute. It’s about time the cuddly side of Trex dinos becomes more well known. Sorry, I am still linky illiterate so you can find it at:
randomhouse.com/crown/pottercraftnews/sep06/pattern.html
Ironranger, simple instructions for links…
go to the top of the post you want to link to, in your case, the random house page. Highlight the address. Either Edit/copy, or control “c”. Move your cursor to this composing box, hit edit/paste or control “v”. Now try that one again and see if you can make it work.
Ack. Malkin and Esmay in one post? There’s not strong enough coffee in the world for that. It makes my head hurt.
I giggle like a schoolgirl when the wingnuts rip each other to pieces. It means,for a little while at least,they’re leaving us alone.
Malkin amazes me,so much hate and nasty evil in such a teeny package. I shudder to think what has to happen to someone to make them that freaking rotten to the core.
“House approves Iran Freedom Support Act”……Don’t you just LOVE the names they give these bills.
(Skies open in heavy downpour. Even the earth weeps.)
Good morning, Old Sow.
Yo Lindy H, what’s shakin besides your head in wonder at what the past 24 hours has wrought?
sooprise– the Rethugs are playing politics with your security… NO oversight either.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0929.html
Furthemore the Chinese, as much as they “looked Japanese” to American eyes, were also welcome allies against Tojo’s Japan.
Esmay.What a stupid gweilo. *spit*
Mornin’ Pups.
Raining here in NY. Perfect the morning after the night of watching the Constitution get sut into tiny scraps of confetti.
I was watching CSPAn last night and it was like watching ahorror movie on SciFI Channel. Pod people are impersonating members of Congress. That is the only explaination that makes sense.
Esmay is not too different from Trent Lott who said this just yesterday:
(emphasis mine)
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/bl…..aq-in.html
Old Sow @ 170
I’ve been literally, physically sick over all this.
mornin’ pups….
the tea water is on….
this is one of the few mornings in my life i’ve an inkling why some people drink something stronger in the morning…
(don’t worry – i only tried that once – in the Boy Scouts, of course. nothing like starting the day paddling down the Colorado river in the middle of the freakin’ desert getting dehydrated on cheap beer. we figured out what a dumb idea it was by the time our headaches started…around 9:30 AM)
‘morning all… coffee’s fresh – anybody for a warmup?
OldCoastie @ 177
::holds out her cup::
Lazyboy recliners at Gitmo. Monica Crowley now saying on Imus that the interrogation rooms at Gitmo have Mr. Coffee machines and Pottery Barn love seats. Persian carpets on the floor.
Gee, ya think?
That must be why Bush needs that get out of jail free card. This woman is mainlining the Kool-Aid.
Thanks OldCoastie, I just poured a cup here. I need to fuel up, I’m going to hand write letters today to the torture twosome of NJ Menendez and Lautenberg demanding an explaination, and expressing my outrage.
Old Sow #156 — J M Hanes provides one rationale supporting Bush/Cheney rejection of the ICC.
The problem I see is that if the ICC does not align with U.S. law, then we should be working actively to encourage its alignment with U.S. law — and not the other way around.
While Hanes argues the inadequacies of the ICC, U.S. law is rapidly moving towards far greater inadequacy; were I a terrorist, I’d rather be tried under ICC than what passes after today as U.S. law. Ending up in the Hague where the world can see me on trial must surely be an improvement over being lost in Gitmo without ever being charged and possibly recovering from torture.
Bob Woodward book – mea-fucking-culpa
LindyH @ 177
cream? sugar?
Hey OS, other pups, morning …
I still can’t believe this bill past. I was hoping that I’d wake up to find that I had only had a nightmare and my country had really not become a police state.
OS, called Mike Michaud’s Washington office yesterday and even his staffer was speechless about Mike’s vote. He said that he didn’t know “all that much about the bill”. And could not defend Mike’s position any way.
He will regret the day that he cast that vote.
See you tomorrow. i think the rain is going to clear.
Rayne – ICC? International Criminal Code?
Gettin’ on the plane. Talk w you soon pups.
FIGHT BACK!!!
safe journey, egregious…
Morning everyone, Jesus’ General has an obit up for the Republic.
Great post.
Great! It looks like patriotboy has gone into mourning. And for how long? How are we throw some bawdy punches at HoJo and George Macaca Allen if he stays on this one page?
Well Jennifer Senior has admitted she is a democrat and cannot wait for the boosh reign to be over. She is getting hollered at by the right.
oh my.
ICC– International Criminal Court.
egregious @ 186
It’s what we do best. This country has gone through some deep dark times before: Slavery, Jim Crow, McCarthy. I think we all have some fight left in us. We progressives have a great legacy of civil rights fighting.
mornin’ all,
just glad to be among y’all :*
J Casper – where ya been and can I go back there with ya ?
and thanks for Patriot Boy – apparently the Glorious Christian Revolution was successful and we can enjoy life in the happy kingdom
Just a quick hello from the office while waiting for IT to get my email functioning [web-based system occasionally goes kaplooey].
All this midnight madness bill passing drives me crazy. They’re shoveling it through in the dark and in a rush because the Republican leadership knows if the public saw this in the light of day, with reasoned debate it would all go down in flames. They are despicable. Sufferin’ succotash! Despicable!
nj progressive @ 194
Indeed they are NJProgressive. Where abouts in NJ are u? I’m in Pitman.
… and just what’s wrong with the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) ?
hiya *ilson!
Millineryman [cool website!]
live in Metuchen, work in Newark
Wigwam @ 133
Rove will send him a big bouquet of roses.
I’m not of the school that considers Rove a genius. But he is brilliant at picking issues that splinter and disintegrate the opposition. And why should we be surprised. He takes moral issues every election cycle and does the same thing, time and time again.
I think he may have gone to the well one too many times. I’m glad to see on most all the blogs, people are upset but understand what is at stake and will continue to work hard for change.
No matter how disgusted you may be, there has to be at least one progressive Dem candidate – through ActBlue, or Russ Feingold’s Progressive Patriot organization, or Emily’s List – that you can support in some way.
And remember – Rove has only begun to fight and he has five weeks left. There is going to be a lot more heartbreak the next five week. It’s gut check time.
John Casper @ 188
Now that is just depressing.
Can someone out there find a flash light to shine into this dark abyss where our country once was.
I’m lookin’ at you Al Gore…
old coastie #185 — angie covered my back on that, International Criminal Court.
I’m trying to decipher JB’s cryptic comment at Balkinization:
I think I understand the Rasul v. Bush reference, in that the SCOTUS did not see any rebellion or insurrection in progress that met the threshhold of suspending habeas corpus. But I don’t see what it is in that idiot Thomas’ dissent that would also support the unconstitutionality of S. 3930.
Unless it’s buried this bit:
This is the fundamental why of the Forever War [TM], why Bush would continue in Iraq even if only Laura and Barney supported him — and probably even if they didn’t bob their heads up and down in a rear window for him. Bush must maintain the “active hostilities” status if he is to obstruct habeas corpus rights.
And this news about NATO assuming Afghanistan is a potential threat to Bush’s “active hostilities” status, since NATO is policing, not engaged in warfare, and U.S. troops are subordinate to NATO, not the President when deployed under NATO. Bush would have to argue that NATO deployment is covered under the AUMF for Afghanistan, but Congress may not have envisioned this.
This could be another key reason why Bush has actively resisted NATO or any other entity taking over Iraq in an effort to unwind U.S. involvement.
We need to develop a strategy around this, so that regardless of the outcome of the election, we can both bring home troops AND terminate the “active hostilities” status.
Dab fr CT
I fear you are right. It’s going to be a bumpy ride folks. [Doing her best Bette Davis imitation] Fasten your seatbelts. Check your values. Take comfort here at the ‘Lake, where we’ll help apply salve to wounded spirits. But get out there and fight every day.
Do something every day. Work for peace. Work for justice.
Thanks, NJ, it looks like FDL has at least one representative from both ends of the state.
‘zup *ilson !
didn’t know whether you were busy vanquishing some Repuke or you and the pit babies had joined The People in Oacaxa
all right everyone – chins up… time for working…
bbuster @ 182
I read the article in the NYTimes about Woodward’s book. If even Bob Woodward has turned on Shrub, that tells you how low Shrub’s power has ebbed.
An interesting couple of themes emerged.
1)Part of Scooter Libby’s defense was that there is a lot of infighting and finger pointing (playin’ the balme game) within the Shrubya inner circle.
Evidently these people must hate each other alomost as much as the reality based community hates them all.
Woodward’s book dwells on this infighting. maybe Scoots is telling the truth about this narrow point.
I wonder, are they all so busy tryiing to ratfuck eaach other that they have no time, energy or attention left to actually do their jobs?
2)Woodward talks about a 2003 report, sent to the WH (once again to the Queen of dropping the ball, Condi) Saying that the troop levels were all wrong and all holy hell was about to break lose if the WH did not act soon.
Gee, just like the Pre-9-11 memo Condi dropped the ball with and everybody running around with their hair on fire saying that Al QUaeda was determined to use planes to attack US.
And gee, just like that famously surreal video of Shrubya getting briefed BEFORE hurricane Katrina and being told urgent action was needed or a natural disaster would turn into and Administration created disaster.
Sandwiched in between those two, we find the same pattern repeated again.
So, let’s recap, 3,000 die in NYC and a big chunk of my hometwon is reduced to a freakin’ crater because these people can’t respond to an accurate warning and “discount” any recommendation coming from career intelligence people with expertise.
In 2003 we pre-emptively LOSE THE WAR IN IRAQ because these people can’t respond to accurate warnings from career military people nd discount information coming from people with a lifetime of expertise.
In 2005, How many people died in New Orleans because these people could not respond to accurate warnings from career people (and Brownie, too) and discounted information coming from people with expertise.
OK, OK does that mean that come 2007, these people will visit some other mass murder on my fellow Americans? Do we all need to evacuate for a year for our own safety?
But the democrats think that national security is a winner for Bush. We need someone to keep the nation secure from Bush. He is the one getting us killed with his reckless behavior.
I’ve been a tad sidetracked recently as the unofficial ‘defense blogger’ for my local very-progressive Congresslady. Its a quite safe race but the mud-slinging by the wingers is gruesome – Julia Carson is a popular African-American Democrat. Many skeletons in her opponents closet are coming out – the wingers are writhing in thwarted fury…
Morning everyone.
Dab you said
You know what? Let’s the heartbreak be on their side. I woke up MAD this morning. I’m feeling pretty damn feisty right now.
We’re operating in a bad Sci Fi movie now? Fine. Let’s be one of the monsters who gets stronger everytime you shoot him.
dab from CT @ 199
You know, you’re right.
Thank you.
Self pity attack almost over now
lhp #206 — did you get the sense that the “infighting and finger pointing (playin’ the blame game) within the Shrubya inner circle” is a defense strategy for Libby?
I wonder if the greymail Libby will request will document this infighting versus supporting his “demanding job confusion” position…?
Morning everyone.
Dab you said
And remember – Rove has only begun to fight and he has five weeks left. There is going to be a lot more heartbreak the next five week.
You know what? Let’s let the heartbreak be on their side. I woke up MAD this morning. I’m feeling pretty damn feisty right now.
We’re operating in a bad Sci Fi movie now? Fine. Let’s be one of the monsters who gets stronger everytime you shoot him.
Mornin’ Thread upstairs
Sorry about double posting. That was my attempt to use the edit function.
Writing out a letter to the editor this morning. There’s just so much to write about! Where to start. Disaster in every direction.
I was thinking about some conversations here yesterday. About the “friend” who openly mocked Mommybrain’s politics. And someone else, who cancelled plans because she felt badly going out in public crying. I also felt a little funny about both crying on the telephone, and later yelling.
You know what? Screw that. It’s time to stop being polite. I am openly furious and disgusted and I am not going to pretend otherwise.
Rayne @ 201
I think he/she is referring to Specter’s comments in the WaPo article this AM. Specter votted FOR the bill, surprising many.
His explaination was that he liked other provisons in the bill (translation- Bush twisted his arm about the retroactive pardon for war crimes) and the habeas Corpus provisions could just be cleaned up in the courts.
Imagine that! Deliberatly voting for something you believe to be unconstitutional BECAUSR you believe it is unconstitutional.
Talk about passing the buck!
*ilson46201 @ 207
Good that you are doing that. We missed ya’, ya’ big lug. (heart)
Rayne @ 210
It’s not infighting vs. demanding job.
It’s infighting demanding job=confusion and forgetfulness
That’s the Libby defense.
Gee, I must be a better lawyer thanI thought. It takes Ted Wells dozens and dozens of pages to try to say that. I got it distilled down to a single mathmatical equation. Sweet.
lhp — yeah, I hear you; I suspect that’s what happened with a certain Senator because they are in a tight race and are worried about loosing any ground at this point. Probably took the same gamble, voting for each of the Kennedy/ Byrd/ Specter/ Rockefeller amendments, but for the underlying bill as well, betting that the bill will be unconstitutional.
After reading that bit by JB about Justice Thomas, I have to wonder about the tack on status; if Bush declared an end to major combat operations in May of 2003, what is the status of Iraq today? “Active hostilities” or no? There might be some room there.
lhp — mos def, a single equation even a child would grok.
Sweet is the word.
Too bad the topic is far from sweet.
Would be lovely to see Fitz drop a shoe soon, that’s all I’m hoping.
“Would be lovely to see Fitz drop a shoe soon, that’s all I’m hoping.” Amen, Rayne, and again, thanks for your fire!! We air-signs tend to float away from the fray, and need timely reminders. To the phones once again!!
New thread, gang — just in case we’ve got some stragglers.
Old Sow — heh. Fire indeed, being a Sagittarian.
Aim high.
But shoot low from time to time, and at close range if necessary.
Thanks, Christy. Catch you folks upstairs.
Rayne at #201:
The quasi-official nature of the WOT is hugely problematic not only when it comes to applying legal precedent but also in terms of creating legal precedent prospectively. From a SCOTUS watching perspective, it’s become increasingly difficult to predict where individual justices will land — although this phenom is not confined to war-related issues alone. Kelo springs to mind, for example. As with your reference above, I think Thomas’s dissents will ultimately prove the most interesting facet of his tenure.
NATO involvement in Afghanistan & Iraq could certainly be the kind of complicating factor you suggest. The biggest stumbling block, however, lies less in Presidential resistance than in getting NATO partners to actually pony up the necessary troops and in completing the dramatic, comprehensive, transformation of NATO deployments undertaken with the creation of the NATO Response Force — which is only just now reaching full operational capacity.
Very early on, NATO flat out declined to take a substantive role Iraq while simultaneously engaged in Afghanistan — where the Allied Commander has been looking for the additional 2,000 NATO troops your article mentions for nearly two years. NATO has, in fact, been in charge of northern & western Afghanistan for quite awhile; they took official command of the south at the beginning of August and if they remain on track to take over the final, pivotal eastern theatre, Afghanistan will be a wholly owned NATO operation by the end of the year. Our own troops will still be doing the heavy lifting, of course, as the numbers will attest.
I took a swipe at Malkin myself here while back – although I doubt seriously she is one of my six readers. Still, it felt good to call the shrieking harpie on the carpet.