Fitz

First?

“We are pushing you off our side of the field, across the fifty yard line and headed toward the goal. And we are about to score. You think we can’t do this? THINK AGAIN, because we have DAMN WELL HAD ENOUGH.”

Well said Christy!

It is something that I’ve been saying myself over the last 24 hours.

can I kick it?

THANK YOU! Your first paragraph pretty much summed up the anger I’m feeling.

It’s MY country, and they’re taking it away from me. Do I want to live here if we condone torture? No.

Don’t those idiots in congress know that what they’re doing is the work of cowards? We’ve fought wars before, but never have we declared that our constitution means nothing.

I am horrified by Graham, Warner, and McCain. It’s the old repub. ploy…stand up for the right thing and get the news coverage, then cave and do what Bushco wants.

Christy, when I get low, you fire up my fighting spirit. God Bless You!

amen, ma’am. ye jes sed it as well as i have ever red it. we will not back down, we are not afraid, we are not gonna fergit. not fer nuthin. we need oversite n since the publicans has dun sold out, we will brang it to ye. and the peeple *will* back us up.

Go Christy! Totally, totally agree - let’s take our country back and go kick ass!

Well done, Christy!
It seems they just keep pushing and pushing to see how far they can actually go.

I really hope that those who vote decide the election and hand these guys their asses.

I am very worried in light of everything they pull that it will be whoever counts the votes who decides.

I can’t believe what has happened.

If they hate us for our freedoms, will they love us if we have all our freedoms removed?

You think we won’t work as hard as we need to, that we’ll let up because you pull some rotten, skeezeball, forced maneuver? Thank again.

You think principle can’t win out against greed? Thank again.

Lol,Christy’s pissed,her accent is showing. :)

The MA group just had our own conference call/pep talk. We’re going to do more spotlighting, more calling, more pushing to close Dau’s triangle. If we don’t who will?

Fighting spirit? You bet!

YeeHaw! We’re with you all the way on this. Lately, I’ve been in a state of shock over this torture bill. I agree with Cafferty…I don’t recognize my own country anymore.Doesn’t mean I don’t want a fight…just feeling a bit disheartened. I STILL don’t understand the Democrats on this one. Just like I never have understood why in 2000, NOT ONE Senator would support the CBC about the election. I have faith that as progressives, we can do something, and I will NEVER give up!!!

EPU’d

Can someone explain why a filibuster seems to be out of the question. It would not have to hold for long? I mean, if these are not “extraordinary circumstances” what would be?

Kennedy up with his amendment.

Here’s how I see it:

Step 1) Take back the House and/or Senate
Step 2) Stop and reverse as much damage as possible in the next two years
Step 3) Primary every Democrat who knuckled under for torture
Step 4) 2008 Elections

You are sounding like one pissed off lady, Christy! Seems like you pounded out the inner angst of the last few days of poster anger, and cooked all the tid bits up into one boiling hot and tasty stew. Another brilliant post. :)

And remember, kids - If You Don’t Vote - You Can’t Complain!

well said christy.

thanks for reminding us how we got to this juncture in the first place.

karl will pull out all the stops between now and Nov. 7.

I so want a headline on Nov. 8 that says “Bush Loses Congress.”

And if I have to put up with lilly livered Dem leadership for the next six weeks to get it, I will do it. I’d stand on my head in the corner and say 500 hail marys if I thought it would help.

Irony.

See SusanG’s story on Kos

On a day when the U.S. Senate is busy busy busy legalizing torture and suspending habeas corpus, this story out of Connecticut strikes a particularly dissonant note:

Mural deemed too violent for school

GREENWICH, Conn. –A restored Revolutionary War mural painted in the 1930s will not be returned to an elementary school because it is too violent for children, a neighborhood group decided.

“Cafferty: President Bush is trying to pardon himself. “

Yes, I pointed it out on Sunday on this blog.

Please read Elizabeth Holtzman’s column in the Sunday Chicago-Times, “Bush Seeks Retroactive Immunity for Violating War Crimes Act.”

http://www.suntimes.com/news/o.....3B.article

Here’s my question: given the Bush Administration’s penchant for loyalty, how long will it take before Republicans are on the receiving end of this legislation?

Step 1) Take back the House and/or Senate
Step 2) Stop and reverse as much damage as possible in the next two years
Step 3) Primary every Democrat who knuckled under for torture
Step 4) 2008 Elections

I’d add 1a) Remove Reid as Democratic Leader in the Senate. Replace with someone with a real set of balls.

BRAVA, CHRISTY!!!

You go, girl!!!! Up to now these testerone-drunken members of the Senate glad-handing each other as they tank our Constitution have not had to deal with US.

Hell, Lieberman’s the only one who’s really come close to facing our full wrath. Just wait. The day is coming, and they will rue it.

I cannot wait to see the presser with the first batch of subpoenas.

Teddy is ON FIRE!

OT:

Bush tells Woodward there are no exit conditions for Iraq:

President Bush is absolutely certain that he has the U.S. and Iraq on the right course, says Woodward. So certain is the president on this matter, Woodward says, that when Mr. Bush had key Republicans to the White House to discuss Iraq, he told them, “I will not withdraw, even if Laura and Barney are the only ones supporting me.”

via atrios

The Lion is roaring… waiting for your filibuster sir!

Emma Anne @
15

Here’s how I see it:

Step 1) Take back the House and/or Senate
Step 2) Stop and reverse as much damage as possible in the next two years
Step 3) Primary every Democrat who knuckled under for torture
Step 4) 2008 Elections

Yes. In precisely that order.

Meanwhile, Chris Bowers has a reality check :

http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/9/27/153635/585

Emma Anne @ 15

Here’s how I see it:
Step 1) Take back the House and/or Senate

I am very skeptical that this will happen. I think the fix is in. Stakes are too high for the Bushzies. It’ll look hotly contested and down-to-the-wire. Basic pool shark M.O.

I hope I’m wrong.
_

Yes, of course. Everything you said. And THANK YOU and Jane for using your real names. I think everyone should stop hiding behind handles. It cheapens the political impact, turns serious activism into a computer game.

If we can’t say who we are, if we can’t share authentic contact information, then we’re already in a dictatorship.

John H. Farr

EPU’d

Every day these patriotic senators recite the pledge of allegiance “… and to the consitution for which it stands” - makes me want to puke!

I just wrote to Boxer on Huffpost that I don’t understand why the dems aren’t SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER. Why are they all not lighting themselves on fire and demanding that the american people take to the streets in protest? Why are they not shutting down congress? Why are they allowing this administration, WHO HAS BEEN WRONG ABOUT EVERY SINGLE THING, to rewrite OUR CONSTITUTION????? I feel like I’m going crazy.

Thank god for fdl.

RevDeb @ 19

Irony.

See SusanG’s story on Kos

On a day when the U.S. Senate is busy busy busy legalizing torture and suspending habeas corpus, this story out of Connecticut strikes a particularly dissonant note:

Mural deemed too violent for school

GREENWICH, Conn. –A restored Revolutionary War mural painted in the 1930s will not be returned to an elementary school because it is too violent for children, a neighborhood group decided.

Insanity seems to be the norm these days.

Kennedy is about to bust a vein. He is the one finally making the point of the details of torture. Thank you, sir.

Fellow Nevadans.
_

Miz Hardin Smith, I swear, you are EN FUEGO today.

This is classic Karl Rove theater. They’ll pass the bill by a narrow margin (bonus points if they can get the Shooter to break a tie), hold an elaborate signing ceremony, and then tar all the Democrats (even the ones who voted for the damn thing) as being week on terror. What, exactly, do the Democrats lose by filibustering? Newsflash, Dems: They’re going to smear you no matter what you do. You might as well do the honorable thing and block this monstrosity.

Kennedy is on fire!

To paraphrase, from what I caught:

“Other countries will look at us and say, This is a war crime, and you will be held accountable!”

Yeah.

Karl Rove: Laughing his way to a domestic constitutional dictatorship.

EPU’ed from last thread

Habeas is as fundamental to our judicial system as the prohibition of slavery is to our rights. No one would look on slavery as a red state, blue state issue. No one should look on habeas that way either. Either we accept habeas as fundamental or we don’t. There is no “kind of” fundamental just as there is no “kind of” pregnant.

If habeas is to be considered just another political issue susceptible to all the usual political calculations, then it is not fundamental to our judicial system. It is just extremely difficult for me to see how you can have any kind of judicial system worth having without it.

That is an important, even critical admission. There were many before the Civil War who considered slavery bad but they did not seek to end it but limit it. Were they right? Were they being practical, realistic? Was the maintenance of a country that was half slave and half free worth it?

Is habeas something you compromise on? Is torture? If we do not draw lines, then there are no lines. Where are yours?

lina @ 18

I so want a headline on Nov. 8 that says “Bush Loses Congress.”

YEAH!

Well said, lina.

Sen. Kennedy just made the perfect presentation. This issue should be put before the American people by recounting, in detail, the charges against and punishments meted out to defendents in previous war crime trials. It simplifies the matter.

Yesterday’s vote on this in the house. See if you can find the 34 deserters:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll491.xml

Amen Christy!! Thanks for all you do.

BobbyG — do more than hope.

100Actions.com — take action.

Raw Story says the the Habeas bill was defeated in the Senate - They have this listed as a breaking story.

Hugh @ 38

Habeas is as fundamental to our judicial system as the prohibition of slavery is to our rights. No one would look on slavery as a red state, blue state issue.

I dunno, the way the GOP is going… don’t give them any ideas. Is there any anachronistic injustice they really don’t yearn to turn back the clock on?

Christy - how is the fact that the Dems are triangulating on this Karl Rove’s fault?

I just don’t buy that. If they do get any kind of majority, will they do anything constructive? Where would I look to see evidence of that? They won’t go after the torture and mess in GITMO - gotta look “good on security” for the 2008 election.

They won’t investigate the abuses they authorized - got embarassment much? How does that make them look for 2008- that they all stood up and voted for torture and war crimes? How do you investigate someone you’ve given a bye on war crimes?

Rove is not the problem with the Dems. They are their own problem and I’m done with excuses for them. This could very easily have been their issue and instead, as per Leahy’s quotes in the Salon article, they were flat out cowards and appeasers.

“In my own caucus, people say, ‘We can’t oppose this, look what happened to Max Cleland.’” … Leahy recounted that his weak-kneed Democratic colleagues also argue, “‘We have to go along with it because we’ll never be able to explain it back home.’” That prompted the Vermont senator to add, “Maybe one way to explain it is to say, ‘I stood up for you and your rights.’”

How many times do we have a “torture, I was for it before I was against it” moments and just pat them on the back and go on? Isn’t that the same thing we get angry about when they constantly do it with the admin and Repubs, but here we are ready to make the same deals with the devil and engage in the same appeasement?

I don’t believe we’ll ever get politicians with more spine than we are willing to show and that means being willing to fight, even if you lose.

It’s not some machiavellian Rove plot that they cannot take the simple issue of torturing innocent people and holding them forever and making a stand. If the shoe was on the other foot, they would be creamed under an avalanche from the right.

What are they showing that makes them worth supporting? And each of these positions that they cave on - makes them less and less able to ever be able to demand accountability. They would be investigating their own collaberation on war crimes.

Accountability has an even hand. They have to be accountable for their choices before you can hand over the Scepter of Subpeona to them to engage in forcing accountability on someone else. ROve is responsible for what he does - they are responsible for what they have not done.

IMO

If the NIE has informed us that we are losing the “GWOT” (Iraq & Afghanistan are being lost as we speak, imho) and we have been doing all kinds of horrible things already, how will legislating our rights away and legalizing torture help us win?

This. makes. no. sense. at. all.

It’s immoral.

It’s the War Crimes Act they’re afraid of. With Red Cross access to the detainees and a report no doubt going to be issued, they want to make sure they cannot be prosecuted.

You know, for people who claim to have such an all-encompassing vision for the world, their actions reveal them to be in dire need of corrective lenses, as their world view is remarkably short-sighted and narrow. On top of that, their execution is egregiously incompetent.

I take it that the amendments that have so far been voted on only need a simple majority to pass (or fail), but I assume the bill to which the bastardized McCain amendment will be attached could be filibustered.

I sure hope someone steps up and at least tries.

Wow - first time EPU’ed.

Kennedy: THIS IS ABOUT PROTECTING AMERICANS!

No more torture! No more attacks on habeas corpus! No more of this treasonous tyrrany! No more electoral, free rides for those who support them!

mjh @ 44

Raw Story says the the Habeas bill was defeated in the Senate - They have this listed as a breaking story.

They are referring to the Spector amendment.

What Tristero said at Digby’s Hullabaloo….

We are dealing with a rogue Presidency, and the trappings of power.

Congress is in the unenviable position of either going along with this insanity, or creating a crisis based on appearance. If congress goes along with the madness, it looks legitimately involved and part of the government. If not, then Bush fully intends to disregard the legislation anyway revealing to the world that we have a rogue President, with all the ramifications that implies.

For Congress it looks like a lose/lose, but there is a chance for change after November. but, it will take some intrepid bastards to change the course, will we get them? It’s anyone’s guess.

Our country is in trouble…..with itself.

A touch of bitter irony, the lead story on the U.S. Senate website: “We the People, Celebrating the Constitution…”. By raping it, apparently.

Thanks for the FDL righteous anger. Come November, let’s take these motherfuckers down.

Senator Clinton up

Mary — the fact that this subject has come up at all is the GOP’s fault. The Dems did not propose this bill nor did they create the problems that led to its perceived need due to CYA. The trangulation is a bad strategy — I believe both Jane and I have said so repeatedly — but the ultimate fault on this lies in Rove and Bush’s lap. They are pushing this forward. The Dems are ineffectively pushing back on some levels, but the battle is not yet over, so we have NO idea what will ultimately happen today.

But I’m not willing to give Rove or the Republicans a pass just because you or anyone else is disappointed in Democratic tactics (or lack thereof). The GOP has to lose in November, and then we can clean house on the Dem side thereafter. But we cannot do both right now, not this close to November, it simply is not possible. And I’m asking you to choose to stand up for your nation’s best interests above your own personal disgust at individual lack of action, because that is, in all honesty, the best we can do right now.

Wish I could snap my fingers and make this all better, but this is the best that I can do. I’m trying to work with what I have today — and that’s the best that I can do. We can push forward, or we can sit back, wring our hands, and hand Karl Rove another victory. I’ll be goddamned if that is an option for me.

Hillary up.

Mary @ 45

Christy - how is the fact that the Dems are triangulating on this Karl Rove’s fault?

I just don’t buy that. If they do get any kind of majority, will they do anything constructive? Where would I look to see evidence of that? They won’t go after the torture and mess in GITMO - gotta look “good on security” for the 2008 election.

They won’t investigate the abuses they authorized - got embarassment much? How does that make them look for 2008- that they all stood up and voted for torture and war crimes? How do you investigate someone you’ve given a bye on war crimes?

Rove is not the problem with the Dems. They are their own problem and I’m done with excuses for them. This could very easily have been their issue and instead, as per Leahy’s quotes in the Salon article, they were flat out cowards and appeasers.

“In my own caucus, people say, ‘We can’t oppose this, look what happened to Max Cleland.’” … Leahy recounted that his weak-kneed Democratic colleagues also argue, “‘We have to go along with it because we’ll never be able to explain it back home.’” That prompted the Vermont senator to add, “Maybe one way to explain it is to say, ‘I stood up for you and your rights.’”

How many times do we have a “torture, I was for it before I was against it” moments and just pat them on the back and go on? Isn’t that the same thing we get angry about when they constantly do it with the admin and Repubs, but here we are ready to make the same deals with the devil and engage in the same appeasement?

I don’t believe we’ll ever get politicians with more spine than we are willing to show and that means being willing to fight, even if you lose.

It’s not some machiavellian Rove plot that they cannot take the simple issue of torturing innocent people and holding them forever and making a stand. If the shoe was on the other foot, they would be creamed under an avalanche from the right.

What are they showing that makes them worth supporting? And each of these positions that they cave on - makes them less and less able to ever be able to demand accountability. They would be investigating their own collaberation on war crimes.

Accountability has an even hand. They have to be accountable for their choices before you can hand over the Scepter of Subpeona to them to engage in forcing accountability on someone else. ROve is responsible for what he does - they are responsible for what they have not done.

IMO

so, are you advocating armed rebellion?

Clinton:

We must hold on to our values and set an example of pride, not shame. We should follow the duty given us by the Supreme Court …

jayackroyd @ 24

OT:

Bush tells Woodward there are no exit conditions for Iraq:

President Bush is absolutely certain that he has the U.S. and Iraq on the right course, says Woodward. So certain is the president on this matter, Woodward says, that when Mr. Bush had key Republicans to the White House to discuss Iraq, he told them, “I will not withdraw, even if Laura and Barney are the only ones supporting me.”

via atrios

Guess he can’t even get above 50% in his own household…have even the twins turned on him?
Well, then, we are Miz Beazleys who will whup your sorry *ss…never surrender, never give up, never stop to take back our democracy from these craven tyrants. Clench-jawed rotties who won’t let go of our freedoms lightly.

RevDeb #40 from my comment last night

27-Sep-2006
H R 6166 Military Commissions Act aka The Torture and Kangaroo Courts Act
Passed 253-168 with 12 Not Voting

Democrats who voted for: 34
Andrews________Herseth
Barrow_________ Higgins
Bean ___________Holden
Bishop (GA) _____Marshall
Boren___________Matheson
Boswell_________ McIntyre
Boyd____________Melancon
Brown (OH) ______Michaud
Chandler_________ Moore (KS)
Cramer___________Peterson (MN)
Cuellar___________Pomeroy
Davis (AL) _______Ross
Davis (TN) _______Salazar
Edwards_________Scott (GA)
Etheridge________Spratt
Ford____________Tanner
Gordon_________ Taylor (MS)

Republicans who voted against: 7
Bartlett (MD)
Gilchrest
Jones (NC)
LaTourette
Leach
Moran (KS)
Paul

Not Voting: 12
Castle____________ Lewis (GA)
Cleaver___________Meehan
Davis (FL) ________Millender-McDonald
Davis, Tom________Ney
Jackson-Lee (TX) __Radanovich
Keller____________Strickland

Thanks Richmond for the clarification. That’s why I love FDL!

Christy: Minor point of contention in your excellent post re. Bush and Rove “Damn Straight:” I am not sure that either of them is! |-]

And, btw, if you can’t bring yourself to support the Democratic party, find yourself a Democratic candidate — for the House, for the Senate, for a state race, that holds your values and holds positions that you find palatable. Man the phones, send out mailers, walk your precincts — whatever it takes to get them elected.

But do something tangible — it is going to take every single one of us working flat out between now and November to win this election. And it’s going to take us getting out from behind our computers and doing the tough, every day work. But it can be done — so do the work that you think needs doing for the people for whom you feel comfortable working — but DO THE WORK. This is too important to leave to someone else.

Hillary forcefully citing George W.

Washington, that is.
_

And Congress ain’t worth spit.

Nice piece of legislation. You may all go home now. You are no longer needed.

Welp, apparently the Democrats have agreed to “forgo a filisbuster in exchange for” something something. That from the NYT.

Woo. So proud today. Go democrats.

Chris Bowers was saying yesterday that we cannot paint all Democrats for the actions of a few… so, how many people does it take to start a filibuster?

Anyhow, this has been a fun 217 year experiment in Rule of Law.

Clinton: Quoting Gen George Washington: “Treat prisoners with humanity”

Abusing prisoners is a prime cause of radicalization. No reason to be rushing to judgment … it will cost our men and women in uniform …

We will once again be held up to the world as failing our own high standards … the war on terrorism is lost already [if we give in to torture] …

I’ll be damned… Hillary is kicking some serious ass. Paraphrasing:

“George Washington commanded that captured foreign mercaneries be treated such that they would have no cause to complain of their treatment.

“Abuse of innocent detainees is one of the prime drivers of jihad.

“Once again we will be in the supreme court, and once again we will be held up before the world as failing to live up to our own standards.

“If Cheney is right and we have to enact this bill to carry out the war, then the war is lost already.”

It’s been a long time, but I’m proud of Hillary right now.

Rayne @ 9:57 (prior thread)

Stephen Parrish — so…what’s your take on Woodie’s newest waste of paper?

Does he do a mea culpa and acknowledge he was a useful tool in those coverups?

Does he pants WaPo but good, by stealing their thunder?

Does he make a bunch of empty claims or those that have been covered in more thorough detail by emptywheel, Jeralyn, Christy, Jane, et al?

Until I read more about Bob Woodward’s new book, I can’t answer your questions. What I found on ThinkProgress about the book is the first commentary I’ve seen about it since I found out earlier this month that it would be published sometime this fall.

Chad at 66 — And you’ve decided to take the word of the paper of Judy Miller and their interpretation of something that may or may not happen — based on anonymous sources — because….what, exactly? Jeebus, can’t everyone just watch the Senate and see what happens along with the rest of us.

jayackroyd @
13

EPU’d

Can someone explain why a filibuster seems to be out of the question. It would not have to hold for long? I mean, if these are not “extraordinary circumstances” what would be?

Same question, and I’m with Hugh as well. Endangering our troops is a valid enough reason to filibuster this, but what more extraordinary circumstance is there than breaking the moral spine of our system of justice? Ditto to everything that Glenn Greenwald has said, too…

I’ve tried all week to reach Sen. Clinton and gotten busy signals; spoke with staffers at the Schumer and Byrd offices. Thanks for the rallying cry…

Hugh - In response to your EPU’d post, I had an EPU’d comment, which was:

Habeus Corpus was considered THE fundamental personal right - it is the only personal right that is in the Constition itself. Our other Consititional rights come in the Bill of Rights and later amendments - like the 13th which outlaws slavery which was 1865 or so.

Where’s Lamont? Has the ball been dropped?

“Poll shows three-term incumbent with 10-point lead over Democrat”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15042299/

In foreign policy, Lieberman is just as foul as Rove and Bush.

thanks to those of you who are live blogging this

Who WILL have the guts to FILIBUSTER ?

Christy Hardin Smith @ 69

Chad at 66 — And you’ve decided to take the word of the paper of Judy Miller and their interpretation of something that may or may not happen — based on anonymous sources — because….what, exactly? Jeebus, can’t everyone just watch the Senate and see what happens along with the rest of us.

I’m with Christy. I don’t think the Repubs have much to offer.

I’m home sick (as is my daughter) and watching cspan is causing me to break out in an even worse sweat. Unbeleivable. How can any American listen to this (and I realize few are) and not see that we are shredding our Constitution, our values, our history, and protections for our own troops? Levin, Kerry, Kennedy, and Clinton have all spoke forcefully and persuasively. Is it too much to ask for one Dem (who isn’t running for reelection if need be) to step and filibuster this awful piece of crap? Back to the phones…

Richmond @ 62

Christy: Minor point of contention in your excellent post re. Bush and Rove “Damn Straight:” I am not sure that either of them is! |-]

Oh, surely, they are damned.

Hey, could one Republican and one Democrat of conscience together put a hold on this whole diabolical travesty?

Rayne - have you seen this? http://www.rawstory.com/news/2....._0928.html

Christy Hardin Smith @ 70

Chad at 66 — And you’ve decided to take the word of the paper of Judy Miller and their interpretation of something that may or may not happen — based on anonymous sources — because….what, exactly? Jeebus, can’t everyone just watch the Senate and see what happens along with the rest of us.

C’mon… It’s so much more fun to speculate and get worked up into a tizzy fit!

:-)

Has Hillary changed her stance on getting the troops out of the middle of the Iraq civil war which she helped Bush, Cheney and the rest start? Is so, I’ve missed it. Perhaps I have.

Evil Parallel Universe @ 71

Hugh - In response to your EPU’d post, I had an EPU’d comment, which was:

Habeus Corpus was considered THE fundamental personal right - it is the only personal right that is in the Constition itself. Our other Consititional rights come in the Bill of Rights and later amendments - like the 13th which outlaws slavery which was 1865 or so.

Was your use of the past tense intentional?

I worry that the beasts at bay are getting desperate. I worry that the October suprise will find our Military embroiled in an Iranian conflict. I worry for my children and my country. Tell me, please, my worries are unfounded. Tell me, Christie, that your righteous indignation will be a pebble in the path of their insidious need for power. I worry, dear, I worry mightily!

John

i agree with mary… having a spine means risking loss to stand up for your core beliefs. it means saying “fuck it, i don’t care what they say about me.” today is the day. i won’t forgive those who don’t take a stand and that means filibuster.

history will not forgive these selfish cowards. who will take a stand?

Hugh - In the originally EPU’d comment I wrote “…is (I won’t use was)….”

It still is - although Chimpco seems to believe it “was.”

Christy, Byrd coming up

Do you think you’ll see any of this on the major networks tonight, with clarity, thorough explanation, and decent clips from both sides?

I don’t have cable. So I check in to the two networks I get…NBC and CBS. I saw NONE of the debate from yesterday on either one…though Lindsey Lying Graham got a few seconds from Katie.

Did Katie cover jack shit about the generals, Baptiste, Eaton et all appearing and testifying to the clusterf*** that is Rumsfeld and the DOD? Nuh. Uh.

We have lost the fourth estate. I don’t know how it happened. But Bribri and Katie are like state controlled TeeVee.

And they are who the American public are watching…

I don’t want a filibuster. I want this debate to end and for these people to go back to their districts/states to explain the Iraq Fucking War to their constituents.

If this bill becomes law it will be struck down by the Supreme Court.

I put my faith in the Constitution, not in elected representatives. Some of them are valiant, some of them are fools. The only thing we’ve got is the Constitution. This bill will not take down the Constitution.

If Karl Rove retains power in the Congress for two more years, there will be more awful legislation, and worse, there will be another Supreme Court appointment.

Will newly elected Dems have the balls to keep America from going down the sewer? I have no idea. But it’s the only hope at this point.

Christy #63 — got your back on that.

What many of you who are not doing local work are missing is the rage and anger of our fellow Americans who feel isolated and alone with their frustration.

I wanted to cry last night, several times, when folks volunteered how passionately they felt about the current situation; some of them feel disenfranchised and disconnected, which is exactly what the opposition hopes for this November. The majority of the people I spoke with don’t have regular internet access, but they knew how very bad things were; they were more isolated for the lack of seeing how broadly dispersed and how deep the passion they feel is shared across this country. Showing up on their doorsteps, letting them vent, reminding them how very important it is for them to be there on Election Day — this makes the difference in every single precinct.

Today is a very ugly, nasty battle, but the war is for the heart and soul of this country, a war that cannot be won without Republican control of Congress being undone.

This is a movement we are working on, even as desperate and painful as the current battle may be. Our opponents felt the same way in the depths of the 1960’s, repeatedly regrouped and sustained their attacks, until they became the behemoth we’ve beat our heads against for the last 5-10 years. WE CAN DO THE SAME THING — AND WE CAN DO IT SMARTER.

Remember that there are conservatives who hope and pray that we will fix this mess; they will not obstruct us (up to a point) if we can win this fall. But we must do it all and well — we must attack in Congress, attack in the media, attach them in the streets of our own neighborhoods by regrouping our own through outreach and GOTV.

You can make a difference, in spite of the ugliness we see playing out in the Senate. You can make positive change; you have the power to take your country back.

100Actions.com

Shorter Democrats: As the Republicans stand up for torture, we will stand down, although we may whimper a little while doing so.

TPM Muckraker has the vote tally.

Rs for amendment: Sununu, Specter, Chafee and Smith (OR).

Ds against amendment: Nelson (NE)

Not voting: Snowe.

We need to get in touch with Olympia again.

Raw Story headline:

Keith Olbermann traces Bush’s pre-9/11 actions: Developing…

For the record, CNN and MSNBC are covering a Florida manhunt in progress. Hey “news” babes… there’s a runaway terrier in our neighborhood…better send out the full news crew.

Iraq?
Congress ratifying torture?
Hmmmm, not so much.

Byrd is up.

Love him or hate him, he IS the institution. Not that the repugs give a sh*t about the institution.

Christy Hardin Smith @
70

Chad at 66 — And you’ve decided to take the word of the paper of Judy Miller and their interpretation of something that may or may not happen — based on anonymous sources — because….what, exactly? Jeebus, can’t everyone just watch the Senate and see what happens along with the rest of us.

Christy, you have to admit that there hasn’t been much to exactly give a guy hope for… what seems like forever.

But trust me, if the Democrats filibuster this, I will so gladly eat my words. So gladly. God. I’m sorry, but knowing that the only thing standing between the US Constitution and mad King George is the current Democratic party doesn’t fill me with anything close to confidence.

Byrd offers ammendment to put a 5 yr sunset on all Military Commission Act.

“we have seen the mistakes that can come when congress rushes…w/o adequate debate…as a means of political showboating…and the results can be disaterous…

Stephen Parrish #69 — was only asking for a foresight or guesstimate on Woodie’s schtick; I think he’ll skip the mea culpa and plead ignorance.

Even odds he’s used info from online to flesh whatever he’s said.

No, didn’t see the Kissinger bit. I don’t like to wish anyone ill - but Kissinger could use a little downtime away from DC, you know? Ugh. Maybe Kissinger’s getting lessons on how to be more than Nixonian.

Oklahoma kiddo, Its always about Hillary with you, She gave a good speech. I detest LIZZY Dole but she doesn’t get to me like that. JMO

I’m not trying to make you angry but I disagree. Levin was a co-sponsor of the original effort to strip habeas and Democratic leadership has known about issues like Arar for over a year and about the Seeton Hall reports and GITMO disasters for longer and have never put together a position or strategy. They have no wanted to talk about torture and IMO that does create the problem that leads to the need. If no soldier or CIA agent can find a leader taking a stand against this - then how do they stand alone?

I agree that Rove and Bush are responsible for what they’ve done, which is push for legislation to get them off the hook. But every politician in Congress has to be responsible for how they respond to that legislation. Electing cowards doesn’t stengthen this country.

You’re right that we don’t know how it will turn out and I’m still making contacts and asking others to do the same. If they make a stand, then I have something to look to - if they don’t, I don’t.

Would you be unwilling to vote against them if they were voting to legalize a 30 day free pass for child rape for soldiers returning from Iraq? What if they only got that free pass in your state? In your hometown?

When is it ok to say “this is so bad you do not deserve to serve?”

For me, this is it. I undestand if not for you or others, but do you really think that any house will be cleaned with enablers in office? Or that they won’t already be re-triangulating for 2008? Then we will “have to have” a Democratic President, so well, that house cleaning will have to wait. Then if they lose it will be - we have to be more moderate to win in 2012 etc.

It’s not in my nation’s best interests to vote for anyone or turn out the vote for any party that cannot stand against torture. The fact that the other party also is in favor of torture plus they have Karl Rove doesn’t sway it for me - Karl Rove is just a guy. He gets used like Hilary Clinton to try to stimulate the base. He’s sleazy slimey politician - Rove, meet Carville.

He’s not an excuse for every failure of ideas, competence and ideology by the Dems. Unless they added a section in the bill where the Minority Party gets to pick a whipping boy and I missed that - could very well be in there.

There is no “lesser of two evils” on torture. I don’t expect finger snaps, but I won’t ever work for someone or some party that support torture and if that means another party that supports torture wins because I go third party, or because I am ready to go for the throat of Dems as well as Repubs that enable torture, then that’s what it means.

Karl Rove has nothing to do with that and he’s not a red flag that gets me wound the way Hannity uses the name Clinton to rile the base.

I won’t be sitting back, but anyone who doesn’t stand up against this is on my hit list, not just Republicans. America won’t ever become better than it is right this minute if people don’t demand something better and quite handing the right “Clinton” to use as an excuse and the left “Rove” to use as an excuse and instead strip the excuses and tell people they are judged for what they do.

It’s time for me to drop it again because I’m too angry.

Prairie Sunshine @ 92

For the record, CNN and MSNBC are covering a Florida manhunt in progress. Hey “news” babes… there’s a runaway terrier in our neighborhood…better send out the full news crew.

Iraq?
Congress ratifying torture?
Hmmmm, not so much.

____

And Fox is convening its crack panel of experts for renewed live location Aruba coverage of the Natalie Holloway story.
_

Vote on Kennedy’s amendment set aside so that Sen. Byrd can offer his amendment -

Members rushing home to politick … the fever of politics can undermine the serious business of the Congress … once the winds of November draw nigh … we have seen the mistakes [that result] from showboating … what is this new impetus spurring congressional action? … It was the Supreme Court’s decision in the Hamdan case … thank God for the separation for powers … for the Supreme Court … debate is the best recourse for BAD bills …

Finally I understand what is the EPU - thanks for the clarification the other day. I’ve been around since before the move to this new .com website but have only recently begun posting frequently. Great community here, definitely not homogenized opinions and that is great.

Fire and Passion from Christy’s position are vital and I am a supporter… but I think it is still valuable to say that support from the left to sellout dems is not to be taken for granted.

really where we are right now is where we get with the logic of the ‘least-worst’ as opposed to requiring candidates to have some principles they won’t sell out - that hasa been concisely expressed as ‘cleaning house’ and I approve.

At the moment I have one Senator of courage - Durbin, and the other one needs to get the Leiberman treatment in 08.

All that is needed is at least one Senator of courage to stand up and try to initiate a filibuster - run out the clock, give the country more time for debate- I don’t know the procedural issues and I don’t care if they don’t think they have the numbers ….

IF NO ONE TRIES WE WILL NEVER KNOW…

and as has been pointed out a vote on cloture would be a meaningful way to judge their real position… a NAY vote when they know they don’t have the majority still smells of political calculation…

are they “keeping their powder dry” for something more important?

what if this was about death squads rounding up “5th columnists” in broad daylight?

As Graham told the Senate Judiciary Committee in February, “the administration has not only the right, but the duty, in my opinion, to pursue fifth column movements…”

then quisling dems like Obama might timidly vote for a comprimise measure toothlessly requiring the Leader to run his death squads only at night…